WEBVTT 1 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:32.799 Well, all right, here we go, All right, here we go. 2 00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:40.479 Maybe not. Let's see hello and welcome back to We're 3 00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:44.280 Not So Different podcast, where I occasionally have to cough 4 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:48.359 before I do the intro. My name is Luke. That's 5 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:51.719 doctor eleanor you know the deal. We sometimes talk about 6 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:57.640 the Middle Ages, maybe today talking about medieval beauty standards. 7 00:00:57.640 --> 00:00:59.439 But before we get there, we got a couple of questions, 8 00:00:59.479 --> 00:01:03.119 first from Gaffzi, who says, and economies that were only 9 00:01:03.240 --> 00:01:06.920 partially monetize, what do people give for things like tithes 10 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:09.799 and to pay for masses, indulgences, et cetera. Could you 11 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:12.719 tie the pig? Could you promise an abby a week's 12 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:16.439 labor labor during the harvest to get your great uncle 13 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:18.159 Ethelbert out of purgatory. 14 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:21.719 Yeah, so this is a great question and I love it, 15 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:26.159 And yeah, you can tie the pig, You absolutely can, 16 00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:30.519 and people do. People will oftentimes give livestock or give 17 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:34.519 whatever it is there you know they tend to make. 18 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:38.280 So that can be both for you know, the clergy, 19 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:39.799 but it can also be like the rent you pay. 20 00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:43.920 Sometimes people pay rent in kind instead of in specie. 21 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:49.280 But a big thing that you do tithe is specifically 22 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:53.439 bees wax. So if you keep bees, like you're like, 23 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:56.920 you're good to go. Because it's like candles, right, Like 24 00:01:56.959 --> 00:01:59.400 it's it is very much like the drill candle tweet 25 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:04.120 and they're just constantly trying to make more candles for 26 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:08.599 the church. And so if you like have bees and 27 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:11.000 you can give bees wax, that's gonna be like the 28 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:17.560 one that's gonna be the one. So like very much 29 00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:20.599 that that's that's something to do. And and you know, otherwise, 30 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:23.479 like you know, you can barter things or like move 31 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:26.439 things around, but you know, everyone they're gonna understand that, 32 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:28.879 like if you are just some peasant, it's gonna be 33 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:31.280 a little bit harder for you to come by loose change. 34 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:34.039 So they're not necessarily going to be mad about you 35 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:36.680 bringing a pig, but they might then trade your pig 36 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:38.599 for money. 37 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:45.520 For they're like like a fiend, like a fiend, like 38 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:49.240 you got any you got any of that wax? Like man, 39 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:52.360 I got a pig. I work on a farm, not 40 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:57.159 an ap arist. They're like all right, man, Like the 41 00:02:57.280 --> 00:02:59.400 blacks guy comes by and he's like you want to 42 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:08.000 taste you know it taste time Medieval coke dealer Energy 43 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:10.280 there's like a medieval weed dealer. He asked you to 44 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:12.520 like he like sits on your couch for too long 45 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:14.479 and ask you to read like iron Rand, You're like 46 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:20.639 Jesus Christ, I don't need wax this bad get out 47 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:26.479 of here. That's awesome. Uh. You know, it took a 48 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:29.159 long time for the economies of Europe, I mean, for 49 00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:35.360 the medieval economies outside of of uh, China to be monetized, 50 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:40.560 and so yeah, I mean I guess they probably just 51 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:43.840 handed in about everything they possibly could in order to 52 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:48.080 tithe or whatever. I mean. The Bible is pretty uh 53 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:50.879 it's pretty much like the tithe in the Bible. Like 54 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:54.919 we associate tithing with specifically just being money, but like 55 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:57.319 the tithing in the Bible, like they were bringing pigs 56 00:03:57.400 --> 00:04:00.280 and sheep and threash and you know, sheaves of eat 57 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:01.479 and all that sort of thing, you know, like that 58 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:05.400 it's like uh, you know, it's it's like a cornucopia thing, 59 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:08.400 like you show up, you tie that stuff. It goes 60 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:10.159 to the church, and the church is like you know, 61 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:14.080 they separate out uh you know, the beer and the 62 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:15.840 bees wax and they sell the rest. 63 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:19.040 Yeah exactly, yeah, exactly. 64 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:24.480 Like its fundamentally, this is an economy about wax for 65 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:28.920 but but you know it's you don't just go around 66 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:32.720 having it, right, it's amazing. So yeah, just whatever it takes, 67 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:34.639 whatever it takes that they can that they can live 68 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:36.480 off of essentially, then it's. 69 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:38.639 Just one of those things you never ever think of, 70 00:04:38.759 --> 00:04:43.759 like how much of their time and energy would have 71 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:49.120 gone to like making candle, like the amount of wax 72 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:53.160 you would need that because basically every light is a candle, Like, 73 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:57.000 unless you have like a like a torch of some 74 00:04:57.160 --> 00:05:00.000 kind or something like that, it's going to be a candle. 75 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:05.199 And it's yeah, well yeah, I've never thought like, yeah, 76 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:10.000 so like ordinary people they usually don't have wax candles, 77 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:11.240 they usually use tallow. 78 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:12.560 Yeah, but the but. 79 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:14.680 The church wants to use bees wax, right because it 80 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:17.720 smells nice and it burns cleaner, and it's like it's 81 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:20.000 like fancy. So it's kind of like part of it's 82 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:22.680 like it's kind of like part of the fucking you know, 83 00:05:22.759 --> 00:05:24.600 incense sort of thing. So yeah, if you come at 84 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:27.319 them with some tallow, it's like the equivalent of coming 85 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:29.279 up to them with like methadone. 86 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:32.079 When they were asking for heroin an get the ship 87 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:32.519 out of here. 88 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:35.560 You walk up like you walk into a church and 89 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:39.319 like smell like the frying beef in here? What is 90 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:42.439 going on in the in the you know, the the 91 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:46.839 the fuck. The priest walks up and he's like, yeah, 92 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:50.879 you know our regular wax guy. Uh, he's he's out, 93 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:54.920 he's out with a regular We had we had to go, 94 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:57.000 but we had to go to old Bob down at 95 00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:01.839 down at the slaughterhouse. Yep, there's the tallow and now 96 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:08.199 our church smells like delicious Hamburger systems, like fried fried beef. 97 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:12.360 It's delicious, Gussie. Thank you very much for the question. 98 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:16.000 Next we got one from a colony Keiss, who says, 99 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:19.839 a few years ago, I was in troe Gear in Croatia, 100 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:22.480 and our tour guide showed us a piece of an 101 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:26.439 ancient Greek frieze which nuns had used as a sour 102 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:29.959 kraut weight during the Middle Ages, wondering if this was 103 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:32.839 typical and if the nuns would have known what they 104 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:35.240 had and to what extent, And I mean, yeah, of 105 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:38.560 course they knew they had the best damn looking sour 106 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:40.839 kraut weight in all of Europe. God damn it. 107 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.720 Oh I love that I mean, uh. 108 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:51.959 Yeah, fundamentally, like probably they probably were, like would have 109 00:06:52.040 --> 00:06:53.079 some idea about it. 110 00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:56.000 Like I mean, you got to understand that. 111 00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:59.000 With nuns were drawing from all walks of society, like 112 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:01.279 well fancy walks aside of society. 113 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:03.920 It's not going to be like poor people, is it. 114 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:05.199 But you know, these are people with. 115 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:09.000 Like a range of experiences and a range of ways 116 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:11.920 of relating to things. So yeah, probably, Like you know, 117 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:13.800 if there's if there's a group of people who are 118 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:16.519 going to understand things, it's usually monks and nuns because 119 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:18.839 you get more of a breadth of understanding. It's like 120 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:22.680 someone in there there'll be like, go get sister Floberta 121 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:25.600 and then she'll be like, ah tis a fine sour 122 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:27.800 krautwait you know, or some shit like. 123 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:33.079 You know, yeah, yeah, I mean like they probably knew. 124 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:35.600 They probably could have been like, yeah, like it's Greek 125 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:41.920 or something, you know, some uh some civilization from the 126 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:43.800 past of some kind, and they might even have been 127 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.360 able to tell you Greek and everything, but it wouldn't 128 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:48.439 I don't think it would have the same meaning to 129 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:50.800 them as it does to us because they didn't have 130 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:56.000 the same like uh not veneration, but the same respect 131 00:07:56.319 --> 00:08:00.399 for artifacts that we do, which you know, that's just 132 00:08:00.439 --> 00:08:01.240 their society. 133 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:03.439 Like that's a really good way putting it. Yeah, that's 134 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:04.600 a super i old putting it. 135 00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:08.680 Yeah, I mean, I'm sure now, I'm absolutely positive there's 136 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:12.279 some like monks somewhere or some people who were really 137 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:16.399 into like history and doing like proto archaeology type stuff. 138 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:18.399 I'm sure those people existed. But for the most part, 139 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:21.839 they're go'na be like, yeah, that's cool that Greek freeze 140 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:25.439 that which would now be worth like ten million dollars 141 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:28.000 to some museum. They were like, yeah, it's our sauerkraut. Wait, 142 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:30.800 m we love well, yeah, pickled cabbage. 143 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:33.960 And fundamentally, the thing is they just don't care. 144 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:36.879 Yeah, Like I mean they're they're like, i mean we 145 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:39.120 see this all the time, you know, like with the 146 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:43.960 reuse of Greek and Roman objects, So like for all 147 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.519 the fucking time, you'll have like churches that are rebuilt 148 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:51.080 using bits of old Roman things. Like people just pick 149 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:53.360 up anything that's useful and reuse it. And I mean 150 00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:58.200 it's really not even until like the twentieth century really 151 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:02.039 that you start getting this idea about you know, kind 152 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:04.200 of like the preservation of things. 153 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:07.240 Early archaeologists were just going in there fucking strip mine 154 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:08.159 in places. 155 00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:10.519 That oh yeah, Like I mean, like you know, they're 156 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.679 like they're taking their stealing statues from grease, ripping all 157 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:15.679 the paint off them, and then moving them to London. 158 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:18.480 You know, it's not about it's about even that. It's 159 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:21.480 about like collecting and collecting in this very particularized way. 160 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:23.360 So you know, they're not gonna give a fuck about 161 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:26.120 a freeze piece. Like I mean, someone probably picked it 162 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:27.919 up one time and was like, oh shit, that's cool, 163 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:30.519 and then they're like, oh yeah, well, well we'll use 164 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:34.080 it as a sour kroud weight because like you know, 165 00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:36.480 because because it's something that we use all the time, right, 166 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:39.440 And this is a pretty thing, right, So like I've 167 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:44.639 got like random antique things, you know, like the that 168 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:47.440 like I've got like an old flat iron, right that's 169 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:48.399 like it's not that old. 170 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:50.720 It's probably like from like eighteen ninety or some shit. 171 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:55.039 And I use it as a doorstop, you know, because 172 00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:57.399 it's because it's like I think it's a cool object 173 00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:00.200 and I need a door stop and it works, right, 174 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:02.639 And so it's probably so probably two things are going 175 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:05.399 on here. They probably know what it is, because you know, 176 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:08.240 that's because they're nuns and that that's their deal. But 177 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:11.960 they probably just don't care the same way that we do. 178 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:15.519 Like they don't go oh damn like and like frame 179 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:17.919 it and you know, and think about it in this 180 00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:20.320 particular way. They go, oh, that's really cool. Yeah we 181 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:23.200 can use it for this. So so yeah, it's it's 182 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:24.120 it is one of these things. 183 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:27.360 I mean. The exception here is usually books, Like if. 184 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:29.360 You have anything written down or if you have any 185 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:31.559 kind of book, they're like, oh shit, there's a book. 186 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:36.840 And they really they really like books. But even said that, 187 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:39.480 having said that, like you know, they'll reuse parchment all 188 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:40.960 the time, like if it's if you've got like a 189 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:43.960 super common copy of something and they need like the 190 00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:45.000 blank piece on the other. 191 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:46.519 Side, they'll cut it out and reuse it. 192 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:52.039 But as a general rule of thumb, like books are 193 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:53.639 the one thing they care about. 194 00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:58.480 So yeah, yeah, yeah, Colin, thank you very much for 195 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:04.000 the question. Sauer Kraut weight is just so funny. Like specificity, 196 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:07.240 it's not just a counterweight, it's not just like a 197 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:11.200 like a general measuring thing. Is specifically that is the 198 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:13.399 one we use for that's the Greek freeze for Sauer 199 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:17.519 kraut over there's the Roman freeze for beer, or you know, 200 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:19.879 just like cool man. 201 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:23.200 Cool man. Yeah, like for sure, that's awesome. 202 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:27.600 Yeah. Anyway, if you guys want to ask us questions 203 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:31.759 like those, or you want to hear more bonus episodes, 204 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:34.559 uh we do two a month, or you just want 205 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:37.360 to hear this ad free, or you want to talk 206 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:40.879 on our pay on our discord, then please do subscribe 207 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:43.519 for just five dollars a month Patreon, dot com, slash 208 00:11:43.639 --> 00:11:48.799 w n sd pod. You get more of us, you 209 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:52.159 get more fun and more joy in your life. I 210 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:54.799 suppose if I assume you're listening to this because it 211 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:58.840 brings you some level of joy, I uh, if you're not, man, 212 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:02.200 I cool, I appreciate we appreciate it. 213 00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:04.639 But I mean, yeah, I would love that. 214 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:07.000 Why, Like, what is there to hate listen to? 215 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:07.360 Here? 216 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:09.679 Like like I don't yeah. 217 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:12.720 I mean, if you're really mad, you know what, I 218 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:13.399 take it back. 219 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.679 If you're hate listening, keep doing it. Subspeci Patreon and 220 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:17.440 hate listen to that. 221 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:20.879 More hate listening. You're You're God's bravest soldier. 222 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:24.519 And actually more hate listens the more hate subscriptions, you do. 223 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:27.720 I actually really respect that because I think like the 224 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.720 art of the hater, you know, as you'll remember, you'll 225 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:33.919 remember my New Year's resolution last year to be a 226 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:37.240 more specific hater, you know, Like, I just think the 227 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:41.440 art of the hater is really added to by you 228 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:44.120 need to do that deep dive. You got to be listening. 229 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:45.840 You've got to be listening hard. So you know, I 230 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:49.200 salute every single person hate listening right now. Keep it up, 231 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:51.799 great stuff, you know, thank you? 232 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:57.399 Yeah, yeah, uh. Anyway, onto the main show. So, sometimes 233 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:03.679 social media is a youthful finding alternative perspectives on world 234 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:07.159 events and politics that we may that we might not 235 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:10.360 otherwise see. This is the good side of social media. 236 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:13.759 Sometimes social media is a healthscape filled with the worst 237 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:18.159 of every type of person who want nothing more than 238 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.320 to annoy you for no goddamn reason or be reactionary 239 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:25.000 pieces of shit. This is the bad side of social media. 240 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:28.799 And then sometimes you find posts that make you laugh 241 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:33.039 for days and give you fodder for entire podcast episodes. This, 242 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:36.960 I would argue, is the greatest good that social media 243 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:40.120 has ever brought to us. Sure, it's good that we 244 00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:42.639 know the truth about world events that our governments try 245 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:46.039 to lie to us about. But really, it's just so 246 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:49.759 wonderful to see the humorous insanity of the human mind 247 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:53.639 on full display for all of us to see. And folks, 248 00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:56.879 when you know it, we've got some great social media 249 00:13:56.919 --> 00:14:01.720 to discuss today. Last week, Twitter user A Bree Soulstad 250 00:14:02.559 --> 00:14:11.279 posted the following Catholic Mary, Greater Sign Protestant Mary, sublimely 251 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:16.759 beautiful and immaculately pure, Greater Sign plane looking and just 252 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:21.039 a vessel. God is the master Artist. He did not 253 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:26.240 make his greatest creature anything but indescribably beautiful. Worship the 254 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:30.159 Divine Artist about properly revering his master work. Then she 255 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:35.120 attached two images. The first is a very obviously AI 256 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:40.679 image of like a hot coquette Mary with the with 257 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:44.960 the halo around her, and the second is I guess 258 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.559 probably a picture of an image of Mary from like 259 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:51.720 a movie of some kind, like a biblical movie. I 260 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:54.759 guess it doesn't it doesn't look AI like, it doesn't 261 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:57.120 show any obvious signs of AI. I don't know who 262 00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:59.960 it is, but yeah, anyway, I'll post the link, so 263 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:01.320 if you know who it is, you can tell me. 264 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:08.159 Now you know, I guess she's Protestant Mary. You know, 265 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:11.480 so we're already off to a real strong start here. 266 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:15.039 We got Catholic and Protestant Mary are apparently two separate people, 267 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:19.600 and we are praising Capital d Capital a divine artist 268 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:24.039 while using an aiimage to show this hot year. This 269 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:26.320 poster goes on to defend her posts and the comments 270 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:28.440 by saying that Mary is the most beautiful woman to 271 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.080 ever exist because she's the most perfect of God's creation, 272 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:35.360 quoting random saints expositing on Mary being a baddie and 273 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:39.480 saying that ugliness is a consequence of the fall of man. So, 274 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:42.600 you know, normal stuff. But our fearless poster was not 275 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:45.159 content to let the sleeping dog lie, and, much to 276 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:49.240 our delight, decided to clarify her thoughts further via a 277 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:53.519 quote tweet the following day. Thankfully, she bought a blue 278 00:15:53.639 --> 00:16:01.200 check so we get an extended look at her thoughts. Guys, 279 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:03.799 that was a poor choice of image. I am sorry, 280 00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:09.960 frownie emoji. However, nothing I said here is wrong, idolatry, 281 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:14.000 godless worship, or theologically inaccurate. And I did not call 282 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:17.519 the depiction of Protestant Mary ugly, as many of the claim. 283 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:21.360 I clearly said plaine, which is the perfect word to 284 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:25.720 describe how a growing number of Protestant denominations erroneously see Mary. 285 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:29.480 Here is Saint Thomas Aquinas quote, the grace of sanctification 286 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:34.039 not only represented illicit impulses in our lady, but even 287 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:36.679 had an effect on others, such that although she was 288 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:39.759 physically beautiful, she could not be lusted after by anyone. 289 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.679 End quote. That is an insane thing to say, because 290 00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:44.919 she had a husband. You know what, I'll talk about 291 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:49.200 it later, anyway, back to it. Here is Saint Bernadette quote, 292 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:52.240 she Mary was so beautiful that to see her again 293 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:56.000 one would be willing to die. End quote. I can 294 00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:59.960 go on with quotes all day. Ugliness, aging, wrinkles, sickness, 295 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:03.600 de formity, etc. Are all some of the many calls 296 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.920 consequences of the fall and of sin. None of this 297 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:08.559 was supposed to happen to us. We were supposed to 298 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:10.880 be in the garden living out perfection and complete union 299 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:14.319 with God. If you believe Mary to be immaculately conceived 300 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:17.400 and sinless, as I do, she must therefore be beautiful 301 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:20.359 both inside and out. She did not experience the consequences 302 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:23.640 of the fall and sin like we do. She is painted, 303 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:26.839 she is most painted, and she is the most painted 304 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:29.519 and sculpted woman in history. For a reason. She has 305 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:32.000 showered with songs and poems and litanys and praise. For 306 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:35.319 a reason. She is beloved and admired and extolled about 307 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:37.720 by all the saints. For a reason, God wrote her 308 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.400 beauty on human heart. On the human heart. He wants 309 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:43.799 you to love her and strive to be like her. 310 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:48.400 Beauty is not bad or judgmental or subjective. It is 311 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.200 one of the three transcendentals of truth, beauty, and goodness 312 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:55.200 which draw us into the great mystery of God in 313 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:59.319 heaven and creation. Revering the beauty of God's creation, specifically, 314 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.759 his most credible and beautiful creature, glorifies him. For too long, 315 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:05.839 many involved in some modern day Protestant denomination to thrown 316 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:09.559 cold water on Mary. They said she is no holier, 317 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:12.079 no more special than us, that she was just a vessel, 318 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:14.359 that she was another center, that she deserves no praise 319 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:17.400 or veneration or attention, and that she is dead and 320 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:19.680 decomposing in the ground. None of this is true, and 321 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:22.680 none of this leads anyone to model themselves after her 322 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.039 the quintessential perfect disciple of Christ. In the order of 323 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:29.160 all things, there is the triune God, and then there 324 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:32.000 is Mary. She is more glorious than even the Seraphim 325 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:35.559 and cheriff and Cherubim. I will die on this hill 326 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:40.319 for our lady. So yeah, today we're going to talk 327 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:43.519 about whatever the fuck that was, and then we're gonna 328 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:45.839 talk about a way in which medieval people were actually 329 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:48.279 very problematic and wrong, and that is they fucked up 330 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:52.000 beauty standards. But first, eleanor what the fuck is? 331 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:53.400 Okay? 332 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:57.119 So, like the thing about this bitch, right is that 333 00:18:58.359 --> 00:18:59.799 she had me in the first half. 334 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.440 Like, I'm not gonna lie. Like she isn't wrong. 335 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:10.000 In terms of what the medieval theological idea of Mary is. 336 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:14.240 What she is wrong about is the idea that beauty 337 00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:17.440 isn't subjective. Okay. 338 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:19.720 So these so these are these are these are two 339 00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:24.279 different things, right, Okay? And she is absolutely right, like 340 00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:28.720 so for the majority of the medieval period, like, the 341 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:32.000 idea of beauty is something that gets expounded upon at length, right, 342 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:38.039 And she's also right that beauty is very much conceptualized 343 00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:45.640 as being a proof of someone's spiritual rectitude because the 344 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.599 idea here is that God. 345 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:49.720 Made the natural world. 346 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:54.279 Yes, and the natural world is beautiful because it is 347 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:55.839 how He wishes it to be. 348 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:58.799 It was created by him. Great, great job. 349 00:19:58.920 --> 00:19:59.079 Right. 350 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:05.720 So so if someone is more spiritually close to God 351 00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:09.279 or more spiritually aligned with God, they are going to 352 00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:15.319 necessarily be more beautiful because it's proof of their spiritual 353 00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:20.720 correctness and their alignment with God. Okay, And she is 354 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:23.680 right about a part of the reasoning behind this, and 355 00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:27.960 that is because before the fall of Man, in the 356 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.200 Garden of Eden, everyone would just be a baddie, right, 357 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:35.039 Everyone would just be like so fucking hot, but you 358 00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:39.559 wouldn't think they were hot, because there's no idea of sexuality, 359 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:44.519 all right, So bor, so let's just bang on there 360 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:46.599 right like this is and this is this is Saint 361 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:51.240 Augustine at work, to be honest. So Saint Augustine's whole 362 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.519 thing is that like everything is perfect and pure and 363 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:55.599 beautiful in the Garden of Eden. And you know, just 364 00:20:55.920 --> 00:21:00.640 like we need to understand that how people are thinking 365 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:04.400 about the world is that we are ever and always 366 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:06.599 moving further and further away from the Garden of Eden, 367 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:09.559 and so things are necessarily getting worse because we're getting 368 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:12.240 further and further away from our experience and time in 369 00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:16.519 the presence of God. Right, so you know things like 370 00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:18.519 people are getting worse, people are getting uglier. So maybe 371 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:26.559 that's why Protestant Mary's an uggo. So the idea here 372 00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:29.480 is that the fall of man, as I've said eight 373 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:35.599 million times before, coincides with the introduction of lust into 374 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:39.200 the world because they realize that they are naked and 375 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:43.960 their disobedience brings lustfulness down on humanity. 376 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:48.480 Right. So Mary was baddie, just like Eve was a baddie. 377 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:49.000 Right. 378 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.079 You can refer to the cover of my book for 379 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:55.000 more info. You know, they're pretty much interchangeable. It's just 380 00:21:55.000 --> 00:22:01.440 one is naked, and basically that all would have been 381 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:04.839 fine until the idea of sexiness comes about. So that's 382 00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:08.880 that's one hundred percent correct. And you see this kind 383 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:11.039 of like knock on thing all the time in terms 384 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:16.119 of how beautiful women are then treated. So for example, 385 00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:20.039 we will see, especially in the earlier medieval period, you 386 00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:24.119 will see examples where women who had been enslaved and 387 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:27.839 trafficked right by the vikings. If you're hot enough, you'll 388 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:32.279 get married off and become the queen. And the reason 389 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:34.759 we know about it is the chroniclers will be like, yeah, 390 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:37.880 and she was really fucking hot, so obviously she was 391 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:40.640 full of every good grace and she became the queen, right, 392 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:47.240 So it's like, being beautiful is ipso facto a reason 393 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:50.000 for someone to be a queen because they have all 394 00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:53.119 of the attendant virtues that come along. 395 00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:54.839 With beauty. 396 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:59.680 So obviously Mary has all those things, right. Obviously, obviously Mary, 397 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.799 by virtue of being the best lady that the world 398 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:06.640 has ever known, has all those virtues. And she's also 399 00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:10.920 fucking correct about this whole thing about original sin. So 400 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:13.440 because she doesn't have she doesn't have original sin, she 401 00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:18.599