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dot e meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly,
flapping his wing, big down in on the forest.
Speaker 2: Man, it gonna cause the tree.
Speaker 1: Fall, letting five thousand miles away.
Speaker 2: Man, Nobody see it?
Speaker 3: Nobody else.
Speaker 4: Why you don't need no play with them?
Speaker 2: Like you follow and you get back. Don't black a dan?
Speaker 3: You don't okay?
Speaker 2: All right, Mark Mitchell? Look did the Jay Burden Show?
How are you doing?
Speaker 3: Then? Doing well? We had some fun conversation before this thing,
so I'm pretty stoked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I'm looking forward to it. Obviously, I'm aware
of you and your company and have been for quite
a while. But I was really engaged by an episode
that you did with Marty bent TFTC. I think is
the podcast I'll drop it in the description, where the
two of you discussed an ongoing generational breakdown in the
broader right wing in America. This is something that I
think myself and many of my listeners will be aware
of on any number of issues. But I'm curious, right,
what sort of motivated you to look into this? And
I guess I should be a podcaster and lead with
this if you could. You know, where are you coming from?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Why are you the person who can you know, speak
about data like this.
Speaker 3: Yeah? So I'm a political polster, which is relatively commoditized,
but I'm also like an honest, non establishment polster, which
is not commoditized at all. There are actually very few
of us. And the stuff I like to do best
isn't really the political horse racing. It's hard, it's boring.
I like polling on public sentiment, which is like, hey,
you know, one hundred years ago, somebody said, well to
people like chocolate or vanilla ice cream better? And somebody said, oh,
I don't know, we'll ask them, and then the news
thought that was interesting. But now what I pull on
is like civil war, the death of the American dream,
political violence, the weaponization of the justice system. And I
find looking around that really nobody else is talking about
those things, and that's because they've all been captured by
a system that essentially wants to tell people what to
think and not actually ask them. And that's why we
wound up on the CIA's Naughty List and why you know,
you're not allowed to ask questions about election integrity or
vaccines or any of that stuff. And so so luckily
with Twitter and you know, we've been pretty loud and
vocal anti establishment voices because I think we can all
look around and say, you know, this isn't Red team
Blue team anymore. Like we're fundamentally not being represented in
a way that feels like we're running towards a cliff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's sort of interesting. I had
a conversation with gen X, conservative right, very intelligent woman,
but it was interesting to hear the conversation break down.
Me and a couple friends were talking to her about
the election of Zoron Mamdannie, and she was very, very
worried about this Islamic socialist that had taken over New
York and my peers were by no means, you know,
a fan of this guy for any number of reasons,
but the concerns were entirely different. Like the word socialism
was sort of this like dim mock right the death touch,
and look, I'm by no means a socialist at all.
But it's interesting that that term rights sort of a
disqualifying feature for your political career. And when I say disqualifying,
I mean clearly it isn't from Mamdani. He will be
in office, but that stink has sort of faded. And
I think that that is an interesting signifier of something
more broad, which is this kind of you could call
it almost like a civic religion, these sort of you know,
moral precepts of what is and is not acceptable as
fully and totally collapsed. And maybe it hit the right
a little after it hit the left, but it is
creating this sort of situation where it's almost impossible to
talk across that divide for reasons like that it's sort
of this thought terminating word like a socialist or you know,
there are others right to attack people on the right,
but it is this sort of interesting moment of fracture
where the kind of previous political order, their terms no
longer apply. If you see what I'm getting at.
Speaker 3: Mark, Yeah, no, one hundred percent. I mean, this is
what is happening right now. There's a major political realignment
and nobody in Washington, DC really wants to acknowledge it.
And things are starting to move really fast right now,
and I'm here for it. As a public opinion professional,
measuring sentiment on this is going to be wild, because
what history tells us is that there's periods where opinions
change really, really, really fast. And for people who don't
study history, I certainly don't. There is a book called
The Fourth Turning that was recommended to me by Steve Bannon,
who actually fifteen years ago wrote a movie about this,
produced a movie, and he's very precient on many things,
and this was one of them. Because when I read
the book, I'm like, oh, this is kind of interesting.
And then increasingly, just over the last year or two,
I've seen more and more signs of this impending shift
coming in my polling. And I think the most obvious
example recently is people's opinions on Israel, but I could
point to a ton of other examples too, and one
of them like referring to the Mandami situation is to
domestic versus foreign terrorism. And so it's like, Okay, Islam's
a religion, like whatever. There's a lot of religions, but
then okay, there's also this thing called islamis Islamic terrorism.
And so when you look at Mamdani, he's got a
really high favorability rating with under forty voters. Like the
young people like him. The old people are like going,
oh my god, socialism, that's terrible. And the young people
like don't care. They just don't. And the older people
are saying, oh, but he's going to be a Muslim terrorist,
and they're like, no, he's not. I listened to him.
He sounds authentic to me. And in the polling, I
forget the numbers. I think younger people are more concerned
about domestic terrorism. I just posted it this morning. But
essentially they're like forty points apart younger people versus older people.
Older people are overwhelmingly concerned with foreign terrorism because they've
heard all this stuff. You know this, you know, we
got to fight him over there, neo conservatives, George W.
Bush kind of stuff. And so what I think happens
and I think one of the things is going on too,
is that people like to push values, and I think
that when times get tough, values are pulled, and so
people are saying, like, no, those values you're pushing on
me don't work anymore. Vacuum needs to be filled. I
like this better, and I think we're seeing that, and
the Fourth Turning tells us this is happening, because the
fourth turning crisis is that happen every eighty to one
hundred years, are precipitated by a massive collapse and institutional
trust because the old values mean nothing and have failed.
And so increasingly you're going to see these older boomer
values because boomers mostly built the system we're living in.
They're sixty percent of federal elected representatives, and that's going
to flip really soon. And boomers are saying things like, again,
we have to fight them over there instead of over here.
Pre market capitalism works, you just have to work harder.
Israel is our greatest ally. We need NATO in order
to fight against Russia, and increasingly the youth are just
going to rebel against that because it doesn't work anymore.
Conservatism itself is kind of a failed set of luxury beliefs,
because what is it even conserved certainly not free market capitalism.
And when you ask the under forty voters like do
you like capitalism or socialism? They say capitalism better. But
then even the conservative under forty voters, if you say, okay,
well how about this socialistic thing like well, free distribution,
even the conservatives like, oh yeah, okay, we kind of
need that right now. So you have this No, I
mean there is a very straightforward, one dimensional political axis
right versus left. It doesn't work anymore. Increasingly we have
the horseshoe of politics where right and far right and
far left are meeting towards focusing on the failed system
that doesn't work for everybody anymore. And that's why you
see things like JD. Vance polling very well because he
talks like economic populist and he gets beaten by Bernie Sanders,
and the way those two people talk on certain things
are not very far apart. It all just comes down
to like, well, how are we going to fix it?
So I think that's really what's going to define politics
over the next couple of years, which is increasingly people
are rebelling against the people in power, and the youth
are going to win is just a matter of time.
If they're fifteen percent of Congress right now, that's gonna
and boomers are sixty that's going to completely reverse in
like ten years.
Speaker 2: Well, and that's sort of why. And there's all these
different colorful ways to describe it, you know, the one
from four Chan, right is the day of the pillow.
But we are it's a bit grim, but it is
sort of funny. It is we are about to reach
and depending on who you ask, it's either in four
or six years. You probably know better than I. But
the point at which we read fifty percent baby boom
or mortality now, obviously, the way mortality tables work, it
goes quickly, even in an era of you know, modern medicine, right,
And I think that that that eighty year you could
have like fourth turning. I think a large part of
it as well. And this is something I've seen both
on the left and the right, is that there's a
large number of people who don't have the buy in
necessary to assume the traditional conservative position of status quo defender.
Because when you have young men who you know are
for any number of reasons, you know, there's been a
peace out and compact about this, but we're you know,
locked out, you know to traditional ways of accumulating money
and status. And then also just due to you know
a combination of inflation and you know, high asset values,
becomes very difficult to become a property holder, to have
a stake in society. Literally, well you're going to see
people sort of throw up their hands and say, well,
let's turn the table, like, let's just set this back
to zero. I stand proportionally a better chance. And I'm
glad you mentioned domestic terror because you know, I've been
kind of look, I sort of came into my you know,
political awareness during you know, the first Trump term, when
you know, left wing political violence sort of re emerge,
and so for effectively my entire adult life, you have
seen this sort of worrying spiral of violence. The one
that I always mentioned that no one ever talks about
is those you know, twelve guys who set up an
L shaped ambush outside of an ice facility where it's like, okay,
they weren't successful. You know, it's not like there's a
huge body count. But you look at that and you're like, okay,
well that's there's twelve guys with some semblance of organization,
that's way more than admittedly tragic cases where you know,
some guy reads Catcher in the Rye and decides to go,
you know, take a scalp or something. And I think
that as you and I, you know, maybe this is
kind of left wing or you know, socialist messaging, as
we could say, but when you have that sort of dispossession,
when you have people who don't really have a lot
to lose, you know, they don't have a mortgage that
would go unpaid if they're in jail, or you know
a wife who would go you know, hungry, well that
those sort of drastic actions are incentivized, or at least
less disincentivized. And I think that that's one of those
things that I feel very frustrated talking to conservatives because
it's like one, like, you know, what happens now, Like
they shot one of your guys literally in four K video,
they tried to shoot Trump twice, Like you know, where
do you think this goes? And if you don't provide
those people one a sort of harsh deterrent which has
been lacking, and two, to be honest, something else to do,
you know, something constructive to do, Like where do you
think this political violence goes because it doesn't just stop
because you're upset about it.
Speaker 3: No, it's coming. It's just a matter of how and
who I think, really, to be honest with you, and
that's why I've been screaming louder and louder, I want
to avoid this scenario. The fourth turning crisises are almost
always hot. There's almost always blood. Civil War, World War two,
you know, the revolution going back. Probably some crap with
the Indians and the French, I don't know, but like
it's the numbers say that this is coming. Forty three
percent of America thinks the Civil War revolution is coming
in the next few years. It's a majority. I think
the number was fifty six percent of under forty voters.
That's not good. Number one concern right now in America
is political violence. Ninety percent of people are concerned about that.
That's more than inflation. I mean, it's just sick. They're
over A majority of people thought that there was going
to be a violent reaction to the twenty twenty four election,
including leftists who think it's more likely that the right
is going to pop off because of the January sixth
psychological operation. That's never been healed, like where the hell
is our jan six Commission? And I've been really outspoken
about this because I think that the Republican Party is
just completely mia like not fighting this, just a wall.
I've been posting like the Shiel laboof, like just do
this mean? Like what are you talking about? Why isn't
anything happening? And I think the under forty voter also
is most fixated on systematic reform. I've called it burn
it down politics, and that sounds pretty inflammatory, nice pun,
but I mean they want to replace a failed, unethical
system with something that gets back to, in my opinion,
core ethics of fairness and justice and honesty. And that's
I think that that's the key to the under forty,
the Zoomer and the millennial politics is they just want fairness,
Like why doesn't this system just work? They want a
restoration of integrity. And that's a pretty strong body politic,
you know what I mean. Like, if you're an objective thinker,
it's pretty easy to look at any policy and say like, no,
that's stupid. We shouldn't be doing this transfer payment. No,
we should get these people the hell out of the
country because it's not better objectively, we have stats, and
even the ones on the left like kind kind of
talk like that. And so the problem I see here
is that like Trump captured the youth zeitgeist, he got
literally shot right right he got into power on retribution
and building a golden age for America and draining the swamp,
and he's literally delivered nothing on that. It's like he's
the biggest person in America who forgot that he got shot.
And I understand that's there's limitations. I understand that it's
tough to arrest these people and get it to stick.
But I think the way and I don't want to
put words in your mouth, but zoomers want people arrested.
And when they were happiest with Trump, it was during
the peak Doge. You could literally go to Google search
trends and type in doge and when it peaked on
the last week of February, goes straight through as musse
and reports dot com and look at Trump's under forty
approval rating. It was sixty percent. And so every Republican
in DC should have been like morally bound to understand
why they finally did something that wasn't retarded and why
the youth vote actually like Republicans for once, and they
didn't care. They shut the doge down. And this was
the same week Donald Trump is quoting Napoleon Bonaparte, And
I mean, I just have poll after poll after poll
first that shows that life is terrible for the under
forty voters in a way that even you, like I
don't know if you want to get into or not,
like very much understated. This societalric is basically, the social
contract's gone for the under forty. It's just gone. And
I was, I'm forty five. I saw the whole thing
fall apart, Like I had my career stolen from me
by the HEB program that got passing the law into
nineteen ninety. So this touches me too. But it's like
if you're in power and you were given a mandate
and that mandate has brutally reformed the government because everybody
needs it. They're begging you. Only thirty percent trust the
federal government. And then the reality is, well, the system
doesn't work. We're never going to get any of these
people arrested. They like, Comy's going to get off Scott
free and that was just one arrest. Then I kind
of think that you have an ethical obligation to get like,
burn that system down, be an accelerationist arrest all these people,
get the evidence out, and then fine, they're going to skate.
I mean, there's an aspect of the processes, the punishment.
But if our justice system is that gone, if the
wealthy and strong and powerful people who rule us are unaccountable,
why are we allowing this to persist? And I don't know,
tell me if that you think that resonates with how
younger voting no?
Speaker 2: And to see the common refrain I hear from my
peer group, and look, you know, I talk to people
on the internet professionally, so I realize in that context
I have a non representative slice, but you know I
do have a real life as well. The common refrain
I hear over and over again is I did everything right.
I did what I was supposed to do. You know,
I don't have debt, I have a degree in a
marketable field. And now what, I'm poorer than my parents
and grandparents were at this stage, an ever greater portion
of my take home income is taken for sort of
the basic parts of life. And so the floor where
you can start saving, where you can start building, is
incredibly high. Now, look that depends on where you live obviously,
cost of living, but that's an incredibly common refrain, right
this feeling, I'm like, wait a minute, like I did
what you told me to do. And now, as I'm
sure you know, the data on job placement for new
graduates is abysmal, particularly in STEM, particularly in these fields
have been hit by H one b's. And then when
someone says, well, the real issue is always you know,
mass immig or sorry, illegal immigration, but if it's legal,
it's fine conversation I had yesterday, you know, just personally,
and you're like, well, okay, for you, it is right.
These people, if they're here legally, are basically going to
be your servants into retirement. But for me, now I'm
competing against someone who gets deported if they quit their
job and works for sixty cents on the dollar. And
you know, due to a degree mill program in places
like India, on paper has more qualifications and more years
of work experience. Again, I say on paper, and so
look like I spoke to uh Peruvian bowl. You know
another guy, my a truly talented financial analyst unrelated, did
not prep him for this is just something we were
talking about mostly it was about housing prices, but I
just asked him, I was like, hey, man, how many
jobs have you applied for? His answer was six hundred.
Mine is about that. I know guys who are you know,
even well into gen X, who are sitting at you know,
four digits, And it's this feeling sure, yeah, exactly, and
it's you know, you can have a great resume, you
can have work experience, and you're just sitting there like
what the heck? Like I'm doing what I'm supposed to.
I'm trying to get a job. I'm not trying to
sponge up welfare. But at every stage it feels as
if the game is rigged. And so, okay, sure is
the individually correct answer to with your amount of power,
you know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, one hundred percent?
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 2: That is rational individual advice, Like if you were, you know,
talking to a nephew or a son, you would say that.
But on a political level, one that doesn't work, and
two when you were passing through ever narrower gates. So
for instance, right, I graduated high school in twenty seventeen
and applying for college was incredibly incredibly I would say,
humiliating in a weird way, because I'm sure you're aware
any college for sure, we'll say, you know, we accept.
Speaker 3: Most medsays like I have to make myself sound mentally
conformant with insane radical leftists academy of people. It's horrifying.
Speaker 2: Well, and the thing that I think many people and
this is this has gotten unbelievably worse for guys who
are just now graduating, where you would look on the
website and say, oh, I'll sail in. You know, I
clear these requirements denied denied. So you're looking at it,
You're like, wait a minute, I'm and obviously college choice
is not the biggest deal in the world. It feels
very much like that when you're eighteen, you're like, wait
a minute, I'm getting sandbaged. You know, I'm basically two
tiers below what I should be. And you take that
forward into hiring, you take that forward and everything, and
I think you have an explanation on two levels. One
why many particularly young men are basically saying like, well,
screw this, who's going to fix it? I don't care how?
And also, sadly, sadly, depending on your perscriptive, this is
the rebirth of identity politics. Right, you have created a
definite group of people who are unified by some immutable
characteristic that's coming back to one way or another.
Speaker 3: I'll disagree with you thereon. Here's why. That's how the
enemies of change will describe this. And yet I believe
that deep down it's a profound obligation that younger men
feel in order to fix a problem. They're filling a
vacuum of leadership and have a moral imperative to fix
this system that is so much more profoundly broken than
I think anybody understands. And just I mean, just to
rattle a few off, you said, like the kids are
better worse off than their parents. Well I've pulled on that.
Only twenty seven percent say today's children will be better
off than their parents. Only like thirty five percent say
they're better off than they were four years ago. Economic
confidence is plunging. I have a sixteen percent under a
thirty unemployment rate. I have fifty two percent under thirty
voters say it's not possible for everyone who wants to
find work to find a job. I have an over
thirty percent of people under forty admitting that they've been
diagnosed with a mental condition. I have horrifying polls on dating.
I have like forty percent of gen Z thinks they're
never going to be able to buy a house. Like
I could just go on and on and on. And
that's before even looking at any economic statistics at all,
which are also horrifying. The forty year first time home
buyer price age. I brought that up at the White House.
Donald Trump was like, what are we what are we
talking about here? People love the home, high home values,
and so when the people who govern us have absolutely
no idea that the real problem is that the social
contract has failed. And I think why young men looking
at that is because we are fighting war against entrenched
interests that want the current status quo to continue, even
though it's marching us down a path it's going to
end violently. That's where this goes. You know, we'll probably
have hyperinflation, We'll probably But like the wealth concentration, that's
a problem. The corporatism, Like going after these corporations that
are just concentrating power. There's no creative destruction anymore. These
people just paper over retarded decisions. With the stock market
and with bernanke Bucks, like everything is literally corrupt, and
you're gonna have these massive corporations that act as like
quasi like like global like like countries basically, and Amazon
might as well be a country, right, it's unaccountable to
the US government who's been captured by it. And the
problem is is that we have a system of basically
global welfare. We were propping up China with manufacturing jobs.
We're propping up India with manufacturing and offshort labor. We're
sending all the US aid to like Africa. We're backstopping
the military defense of Western Europe because these people have
an expansionist like pushed to want to take over Eurasia,
like every single person. Like we're literally subsidizing all of
South America with the freaking drug trade and it's all
coming from the middle class taxpayer and the music stopping.
And I think young men just fundamentally know that they're
being called to action on this. And I'll tell you that,
like the corporate situation is even more diabolical. So, like
I said, thousands and thousands of applications, but I was
able to see in real time. I have a weird career.
I was like Navy, then like banking, then I went
and got my MBA. Then I was VC, then I
was in like tech companies. My last job as a
Walmart corporate, I saw the HEB abuse. It's ten times
worse than anybody says, but I saw in real time
as the actual return rates all my applications diminished over
a ten year period. Now, could I get a job, Like,
could I go network to the C suite and like
kiss somebody's rear?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I probably could. But like, we're the keep that should
be fixing these corporations because of the objective decision making process,
the lack of feeling of a need for everything to
be agreeable, for this consensus seeking feminized behavior. So there's
this crazy article that just came out that jd Vance
referred to that everybody's looking at now, And it was
in I don't know, you know the one I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was Compact. It was the one I mentioned earlier,
I believe.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah yeah. So this is, in my opinion, the
most important snippet. And that was a great article because
it had a lot of stats, like you said, about
white young men being replaced in all these companies. But
what was interesting is it picked three industries. It was academia,
it was TV scriptwriting. What was the third one, I
don't know, but it was like a non H one
B industry. None of these were even H one B industries.
And that's even worse because over sixty percent of Walmart engineering,
for instance, is Indian foreign national. But this is the
part that tells me that young men need to really
step up because the corporations who are one of the
reasons that we've been so economically and competitively successful our
ability to innovate and create amazing products that the world wants.
So this is one of the vignettes that they were
covering in this article. And I think this was, Oh,
this was journalism. That was the third, and this was
about a guy that works in journalism. Andrew, for his part,
was unable to adopt the performative ally ship that had
become expected in the newspaper. I always thought that I
was an effeminate nerd growing up, but my way of
expressing myself now puts me on the most masculine end
of men in the media. I started to pick up
on the fact that there wasn't much room for people
who even speak in my timbre, and what does that mean, well,
it's why I wasn't really wanted to Walmart Corporate either,
because I would get in and my job wasn't about
fluffing my resume and kissing my boss's rear and hugging
it out with other teams, you know, patting ourselves on
the back for saving ground people all over the world
or whatever. Right, I would say, well, look, your team's
screwing up. You messed up one hundred thousand customer experiences.
Why isn't that fixed yesterday? And when are you gonna
fix it? Why didn't you put that on the roadmap already?
And how many times are'm gonna have to follow up
with you? You retard, like that's what should happen in
a corporation or any mission seeking organization that is trying
to service shareholder value or you know, defend the United
States of America or whatever that be, right. And so
my big concern is that it's all going to fall
apart because I mean, just look at look at what
Cracker Barrel did. That's gonna happen in every corporation and
every academic and just in the military, maybe even judiciary.
It's all performative, fake decision making. Based on optics and feelings,
and it has to end to where we are literally
going to get picked apart by the rest of the world.
Speaker 2: To to sort of bolster that point, I have a
good friend of mine, I won't say anything more than that,
who works in the you know, finance department of a
large company right in the healthcare space. And you know,
he's kind of on his own island, but you know
he hears things from everywhere, and so he's working on
this and you know, preparing financial reports, and it was grim,
things were not going well. And you know, he prepares
the report, sends it off to his boss, and then
you know, two or three weeks later, when he's in
the meeting, it has been recast. And this phrase, which
I've heard now echoed elsewhere, well we're not doing we're
not doing well, but we are doing good, was sort
of the way to spin it. The idea that the
mission is not necessarily what it says on the tin
right to be a X y Z company to service
those sort of needs, but it's too kind of service.
This broader, ill defined good. You know, that is sort of,
as you've said, completely and totally performative. And look if
that's one company, even if it's in a small market
where it's important. If it goes away, something will replace it.
But when that becomes every company all at once, you're
sort of starting to look at this and you're saying, well, like,
where does this go? Because you're creating this bizarre situation
where you have this sort of untapped talent pool people
who are capable and competent who are doing something now
they might not be doing something particularly productive. In fact,
I think this is a large part of the reason
you've seen the growth of like social media influencers, as
it is a way you can make money. You know,
it is a you know, rough meritocracy. And look, like
I realized the irony of making this point on you know,
a podcast that I have, but like that is individually rational,
But then you have that person not doing something actually
productive in the system that makes the world better, not
producing something, And so it's this brain drain. And that's
even assuming it's something relatively innocuous. But you are both
harvesting out, you know, the sort of IQ and the
sort of functionality out of existing institutions, pushing it to
the outside and giving those people no direction. To me
that seems fundamentally unstable, even setting aside the sort of
national concerns you mentioned earlier, which is other countries are
not making this mistake.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's going to be a major competitive problem one
hundred percent, and you're seeing it across all industries. Go
no further than like what's going on at Disney with Marvel.
This is you can literally chart the retardedness of Marvel
movies and it would track one to one with and
I'm not making it about race or age, but with
getting rid of and pushing out objectively meritocracy. You know,
the top of the heat people they get, they got
rid of them. Now we have doors falling off Boeing planes, Right,
we have government that just is absolutely incapable of doing anything,
like even the military too. Right, nobody's been fired for
that crisis in Afghanistan. How does that even happen? I
think you'll just look at every industry everywhere, and there's
a lack of integrity and objective decision making. And not
only that, it's like, okay, we've robbed people's agency because
we have supported a system that concentrates power. So you
can't open up a retail store. You're competing against Amazon
because the government refuses to go after anti competitive behavior
with them, AI is going to increasingly be a problem.
And I'm sorry, but the right has to have an
answer for this, or even the conservative youth, they say
when you ask them, well, if AI takes away jobs,
are we just going to have to go to universal
basic income? And everybody says yes, And I think even
Elon is talking about that right now. And I think
that's a horrible decision because of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
How are people going to self actualize if there's no
tangible way to prove that through hard work you can
achieve more? Are we just going to give up on
that as humans? And if the answer is no, then
the conservative movement has to understand that we need drastic, rapid,
systematic reform. We need independent government that's willing to go
after these corporations. We need to have the ability to see,
like things that suck fail, and Donald Trump's not that person.
I've gotten a lot of dms from disaffected three time
MAGA voters who are not Republicans, who are like burning
their hats and fifty five gallon drums out back, and
one of them said, I thought Trump was going to
be our Franco. But I guess I'm going to have
to keep waiting because, for instance, the Chinese students. We
have Chinese students like stealing bio weapons and sending IP
back and probably half of them are CCP agents. Then
they're propping up places like Brown University has a lot
of Chinese believe it or not, students on visa. And
there's these Marxist organizations where conservatives are dying and not
getting accepted and it's just harfying, like literally everything has
been broken and there's there's no systematic fix. And so
when you have a situation like this that's untenable again,
a vacuum is gonna get filled and if it has
to get bloody, that's probably where it's going to go.
But we can't dollars marching to financial ruin. And it's
almost looking at Trump as like he's like, we're in
such a dangerous situation because he keeps pushing the Overton
window right, the Overton window. Your audience probably is familiar
with the concept, but the Left is good at systematically
using like uniform talking points and non government organizations and
marketing to unify on a message they have very powerful
online hive minds in order to continuously move everything more
left and radical, and the right doesn't have any counter
manning forces. There's no opposite, equal and opposite push on
the Overton window. Now influencers and Twitter are kind of
filling that void a little bit, and then Trump just
posting random stuff on true social But when you push
the Overton window right, and yet there's no political weight
or backing to any of this, that creates an issue too,
because these radical people are going to get increasingly increasingly
desperate to prevent the sliding ubiquitously to the left. So
Trump's out there tweeting about Heartseller like that's a really
big deal. His State Department is talking about the death
of the West in Europe and the kinds of things
that they said and that release that they came out,
like these are things that matter and are going to
make a really big deal when continuously they find people
find that they can't vote for that in the Republican Party.
And yet when you vote for the left now it
is going to be a vote for democratic socialism. They
know that their political movement, even though it seems fragmented
and it's full of really bad national political figures. They
have piled in behind democratic socialism. There aren't really moderate
Democrats anymore in the party, like in a meaningful way.
They'll lose because they have a nice little system of
carrots and sticks that you know, reinforce people staying in line.
And the Republican Party is still just it's just anchored
in this performative conservatism that's good for big business and
big business one like, this is the problem here. There's
a corporate oligarchy that has captured the Democrat and the
Republican Party. You call it corporatism, call it like neo global,
homo corporatists, Like, I don't even know the word for it,
but it's perverse, and I think everybody fundamentally understands under forty.
Speaker 2: So several things there. You mentioned, You mentioned Franco and
one of the stories you've sort of seen this it
gets head up every three or four years, is the
idea that and it's normally expressed in a breathless tone.
It's like, oh, you younger people don't care about democracy.
I get think of an example, when you know a
teacher basically you know, pulled the room of you know,
thirty kids and said, oh, you know, would you prefer
you know, would you prefer And this is kind of
funny to think about now Hillary Clinton or you know,
a right wing dictator. Now admittedly right some people are
doing that to create a reaction, of course, but it
was I mean, I think there was one or two
exceptions who said, no, we'd prefer this kind of you know,
baseline neoliberalism. So one, if you could, could you talk about,
you know, in the face of these you know, sort
of dramatic challenges facing the nation and facing younger demographics,
where do we look on issues like democracy? Because I
remember one of the things you you brought up that
I thought was interesting is the relatively high number of
people who were all right with the idea of an
AI dictatorship for whatever that is. And so if you could,
could you speak to that trend as well?
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, let me try and pull some of this
up while I'm talking the you know, it's tough to
pull on labels, for instance, conservatism, like what does that
even mean right now? I would be hard pressed to
define it. And the polling shows that younger voters like
behave outside of how they label themselves. So I ask
these people are you Republican, are you a Democrat? Or
your conservative? And then when you ask the questions like
you're getting responses that don't really make sense. And then
when you ask questions about things like this, which political
party is the biggest threat of dictatorship or tyranny coming
from Republican or Democrat party, Well you basically just get
an exact even split, and it's like it's Mets versus Yankees. Well,
my team's not going to do what your team is.
So like, there's those kind of trends that make it tough.
But what illustrating these things with sort of like ridiculous
obtuse questions where you're like, oh man, people believe that
has been very powerful and so again, and so you
have Doge being extremely powerful popular with voters under forty,
that was a big one. Then you have we asked
everybody if you agreed or disagreed that he who saves
his country violates no laws, and under forty is agreed
with that most I think it was fifty six or
fifty seven percent. It was almost like three to one.
I think. Then we've asked about arrests. Under forty voters
want arrests more than anybody the AI question, and that
was weird. It was the conservatives under forty. It wasn't
the liberals at all. And the question was like, hey,
AI is getting more advanced and people are frustrated that
our government is less capable of making the decisions that
we need or something like that, would you support giving
control of governance and legislative ability to and advanced AI?
And it was fifty five to forty among under forty conservatives,
a pretty strong signal. And then you see things again
and I think that this would be the same with democracy.
Is that okay? Well, which is better free market capitalism
or socialism? And people say the right answer, They say
free market capitalism. I think it would be like probably
about seventy to twenty roughly off the top of my
head with under forties. But then it's like, okay, well,
you take the Trump voter under forty and you ask them, well,
would you support or oppose nationalizing major industries like healthcare, tech,
and energy? And like three corners of them of Trump
voters say yeah, of course, why wouldn't we do that,
like we should have done that yesterday? Would you support
or oppose a program that confiscates excess wealth like second
houses and boats from older people to help first time
home buyers. It's like fifty I think that was fifty
six percent of Trump voters under forty. So these people
are not They're just they don't act conservative. It doesn't
even matter what they say or not. So when you
hear these things like oh, gen Z is more conservative
than any generation, Like by what measure? They want you arrested,
Like that's canservative, I guess like they're ready to. We
had a skynet question. We literally said, would you support
giving control of the world's militaries to an advanced AI
in order to reduce the number of people killed in war?
And conservatives under forty it was forty ninety percent, And
of course the liberals are like, no, like you shouldn't
do that. That's a bad idea. Maybe we shouldn't literally
like literally launch Skynet. And so I think there's this
aspect of the like they want brutal reform and they
want it yesterday. The arrests, ignoring the judges and peaching
the judges. Yeah, they're and they're not going to get it,
and this like this was their best chance. And so
my advice to Donald Trump was like, this isn't enough.
You can't do a mission accomplished and say that we
fix the economy when fifty percent of all retail sales
is the top ten percent of income earners and people
have to work twenty two years to buy a house,
and uh, we give all our jobs to India. Like
what the system is? It doesn't work. It's like the
most precient thing ever written was apparently Atlas Shrug because
we literally Gen z and Millennials are basically hank reared,
like they're trying their best. They know the path. It's
not just like they listen to the boomers dutifully. It's
like like, no, like this PAS has been laid out,
I'm gonna follow it because it's the right thing to do.
I'm trying to support the social contract and not only
provide for a family, but provide for the rest of
the world because that's what the American taxpayer does. The
rest of the world is a freaking dead beat, and
we got to cut them off because we're like, literally,
I mean it's gonna get dark here. You know. We
got Western Europe that wants to build a fourth Reich
and get in a war with Russia. You have I
know that's going to be increasingly embolden as its economy
starts to fall apart and it needs to take drastic action.
You have South America, who's probably been influencing so much
of what we see behind the scenes, and now they
have a naval flotilla surrounding them, like you have India,
who's an ascendant economic force and essentially owns the engineering
departments of every one of our fortune one hundred companies
like there. I look at this situation and I wonder
what the path out is. But if it, if you don't,
if we don't break from the path, now it's gonna
get really bit.
Speaker 2: Just a brief aside, I've never entirely understood how the
engineering department at every major corporation in America can be
majority Indian and yet India looks like India sidebar issue
won't come back to it, uh, but I think a.
Speaker 3: Large part of it.
Speaker 2: But to go back to your to your point about
this kind of you know, desire for justice and desire
for kind of a fair shake. It's sort of this
this pinsion pull of you were competing for your job
against the poorest person in the world, and competing for
your home, competing for your assets against the wealthiest people
in the world. There are variables you can adjust there.
And if the answer is, well, you know, will restrict
access to labor, okay, that's one answer, or you can
get you know, restrict to how much capital we can have.
And I think conservatives look at those two options and say, well,
I'm much more comfortable with one than the other. But
if you don't choose, you're probably going to get both,
or alternately, this thing becomes so unwieldy that it just
descends into Brazilification. But fundamentally, staying in the middle is
not an option. Just freezing this forever, because as you said,
the demographic can can tend. The demographic trend excuse me,
of the baby boomer generation passing away is going to
push the country into the hands of the youth. We
understand the relative voting patterns here, and so I've especially
frustrated with older conservatives because it's like, look like, is
the answer quite simply, you know, frozen corporate conservatism for
as long as we can hold onto power, and then
whatever happens after I die is indeterminate. Is that what
you want? Because that doesn't seem to be a particularly
conservative idea idea conceptually, I guess, but also right, you've
got to understand that, you know, if you're one of
the last guys there, things will be fairly unpleasant for you.
You know, we've already seen this with the rhetoric towards
the Trump administration, like Pete Hegseth has been threatened with
you know, being sent towards the Hague, right, yeah, let
alone the political violence. So like, even from sheer personal preservation,
you'd assume that people would understand that there is a
lot of anger here.
Speaker 3: And yeah, and I guess i'd answer this the answer
it this way. Everybody knows that morbid obesity makes you
like six times more likely to die by the age
or whatever. Everybody knows that's sitting around on the couch
and yourself day after day after day will kill you.
And yet how many people die on the couch that
overweight with heart disease? And I look at the Republican
Party and I think it's basically that, you know, everything
that comes out of their mouth's a bunch of bs
about how they're going to start a couch to five
K program maybe someday but it's like, dude, you just
got to stop eating. It's not hard. People do this
all the time, but it's like the political will is
not there. And the reason I'm successful at my job
as actually I'm not a DC insider. I came from
outside of politics, and the polling ask actually wasn't that
hard if you're not trying to, like basically shill for
a broken system. And I go down there and I
visit and I talk to Republicans and I'm just not
it's not working. I talk to a Republican congressman on
the hill, and I think a lot more of them
are principled than you would think. And obviously they have
ties to big interests and they're going to make decisions
that are in the best interest of those people first, obviously,
but they will push back again these problems. But there's
no force or weight or strategy or unity. There's no
system saying well, this is what conservative means, and we
have to do this right now. And so Trump has
filled that vacuum with MAGA, which increasingly appears to be
just whatever the hell Trump wakes up and thinks about
on a daily basis, depending on who he talks to
and Unfortunately right now who he's talking to is Lindsay Graham,
Sean Hannity, Larry Ellison, and Miriam Maidleson. And so that's
the kind of governance we're getting. And the problem is
it's getting way too late in the hour for freaking
Miriam Madelson and Sean Hannity to be the president of
the United States. And so that's the problem. I went
to the RNC again, nice people. Joe Gruders is new there.
He seemed kind of cool. But when I talked to
the political and communications directors there and then seeing them
interact with their grassroots, it was just like, hey, we
got the right message, we just got to vote harder.
It's like you're going to lose. Then I talked to
grassroots organizations and they say, oh, there's so many grifters.
All this money he goes to, like people like Scott
Presler and he comes in and just takes credit and leaves,
and no money's going to the people who actually knock
on doors. And then they look at the state and
local Republican parties and it's like, oh, these people stand
for nothing. All they try and do is get their
establishment people to run. All it is is an elaborate
donor harvesting scheme. And you got to respect the left
for this. I mean, one of the grassroots people I
work with said, well, at least with Democrats, if you
give them a dollar, like ninety seven percent of it
is actually going to go to buy votes and to
like advertise and to go towards the actual you know,
cause if you give like buck to Republicans, half of
it's just going to go in consulting pockets. In fact,
they will make up like fake things to spend money
on just for the donor kickbacks, and so it literally
stands for nothing. And what you're seeing too now is
that there's basically an anti America first coup within the party.
And I thought that they would wait until after the midterms,
but they it was so bold, it happened so fast.
The second Trump slipped up a little bit, they completely
reasserted themselves and you saw it back and like right
after the Tucker Nick Fuentes interview, people were trying to
push Ronda Santis again on the internet and they're going
after JD. I think that going after Tucker was sort
of like a tangential way to try to attack JD.
Like they were going after the head of the Heritage
Foundation because of basically two words he said, and he
was one of the first MAGA guys, like the idea
that the Heritage Foundation this blows my mind. So you
can see some people are trying and Washington, DC is
resisting every iota change. The guy that they're trying to
oust from the Heritage Foundation, Kevin Roberts, who called some
people a venomous coalition, actually got on stage two days
ago and said the word corporatism. I can't over emphasize
how profoundly bold that is, because my experience with all
the think tanks is that Republican policy is literally just
there to do as little as possible that they're able
to get away with while keeping the major corporations happy.
And like, that's literally it. That's the game. That's what
all the money on the right in Washington, DC goes to.
And you're starting to like, see, you know, I talked
to the John Burds Society guy there and fest and like, Okay, yeah,
he's saying the right things. They're starting to wake up,
but it's just so hopeless. And I was like, really
anti elon America party just six months ago. I was
pulling on it, and I said, no, it's going to siphon.
It's going to siphon votes from the Republicans. It's going
to make the Democrats win. Now, I think it's time
they just need to put a bullet in this beast.
They need to fund the American Party, burn down the
Republican Party. We're probably gonna everything's going to be censored.
They're going to throw us into camps. But it's like,
let's just rip the band aid off. I hate to
be nihilistic, but the Republican Party just is not structurally
capable of competing against them pending wave of and the
bar so low. Their leaders are terrible. AOC is going
to be the president because and JD should beat the
hell out of her. But the Republicans have. The Republicans
right now are watching Turning Point and being like, hey,
that's our future, and it's like, Okay, it's one political organization,
but what about your entire game. Did the year to date,
just in the first three quarters, Act Blue, the criminal
organization Act Blue allegedly raised one point three billion dollars.
It's on track to do almost two billion this year,
and it's going to have probably about three and a
half billion by the time the midterms roll around, and
they this thing could have been under investigation five years
ago and it's just not. And so it's like they're
going to impeach Trump. There's going to be an anti
corruption investigation into every single one of its combinet heads.
They're going to have an Epstein commission on the very
first day, and we're to whitewash all the Democrat stuff
out of the Epstein file. They're gonna have commission after commission.
They're gonna have like hoaxes. They're gonna probably try to
shut down Twitter like it. I mean, the writing is
on the wall. So I mean, this is the big year.
Are we going to really go into the mid terms
without a single person being arrested? I'm giving Pambondi another
two months.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, at a certain point, it becomes like
furor bunker stuff, you know, like hypothesizing ways that you could,
you know, you can win it all back. And to
your point, that was the thing that I found really
sort of exciting about Trump two point zero is that,
you know, it seemed as if you know, after you know,
he was shot, that there was this flurry of activity
doing the sort of things that you would do if
you had decided to be a serious political party. Again, right,
going for those kind of body blows. We were going
after usaid all of these funding networks, the things that
would prevent what this backlash which is likely to come.
And then very quickly it seems as if all that
momentum died. And even in the face of you, as
we both said, many of these people going to jail.
I mean, look like Trump and his entire family, even
down to Baron, who's nineteen, can't get a bank account.
Like you think that they're going to be nicer this
time around. And again there's this great phrase I've stole
from one of my buddies, bog Beef, where he talks
about the Republicans as you know, the Washing Washington generals
of politics. Right, they've just existed as an organization to
get stunted on so that they can, you know, theatrically
allow the Democrats to win, because it seems as if
the stated and revealed preference don't line up. The stated
preference is to be a real political party for conservative
values and all this, but what they actually do, their
revealed preference is exactly what you've said, it is entirely
based off of the system of donors and consultants who
basically view every Republican administration as a way to harvest
and effectively, the Democrats get to rule and the Republicans
get to collect a danegeld whatever you want to call
it from fly over America, and look, that system works
for you, assuming the country works, assuming that the economic
engine was drive. All of this hits that bare minimum
threshold to keep running. But ultimately you're adding drag. You're
adding drag, You're adding drag, and so like, look like
if you start your car, unscrew the oil cap and
like put in like a few grains of sand. It's
not good for it, but it's probably fine. But at
the point where you've got a funnel the pouchful of
miracle grow dumping it down into the engine, it's like, well,
guess what, bud, that doesn't work anymore, both on the
level of sheer voters and also the fact that, like,
if you don't have an economy, you don't get to
collect money anymore. And the thing that I find so
frustrating in this is that I incorrectly bet on simple
I guess you could say selfishness incorrectly bet that you know,
the freight train ten yards down the track would be
more interesting than the penny, you know, sitting in between
the rails. And apparently, no, apparently they will quite literally
cut off their nose to spite their face. I have
a someone unfinished essay on exactly this topic called the
you know, the Republican Samson option, because it's sort of
this thing of like, well, rather than let this party change,
I will destroy it. I will I will keep my
sort of control over this hill of ash. And I'm
glad you brought up JD and Tucker because to me,
this is something I found really interesting where you could
sort of see it coming that it was first, you know,
Nick found has the nick one has to Tucker. Then
it was nick one has to Tucker to JD. Van's
and now we've just discarded all of the other things,
and it's just JD. Van. You've seen this with you know,
this sort of discussion about the so called woke right,
where they're very cynically trying to say, oh, you know,
now the right has become just as woke as the left,
obviously completely torturing that term. But it's so baffling to me,
because the alternative is this sort of John McCain style republicanism, which, like, look, man,
that didn't work in two thousand and eight, it is
no longer two thousand and eight. And so the idea,
and we saw this in Virginia right where I live,
you know, where we can just you know, do something,
you know, run the old playbook again and act surprised
when you lose by you know, a historic margin. And look,
one state isn't the end of the world. It is
someone who lives here. I'd be really much happier if
it weren't about to flip blue. But at the same time,
as you've said, the fundraising, the public sentiment, even just
the apathy among conservative voters. Look, twenty sex is going
to be a bloodbath. And it's also important to recognize
that that coup you were talking about, the way that
it will be cast is that this is a repudiation
of all of the populist elements of the republican platform.
That's what the real problem was the problem is that
we went to we went too far, and we need
to tack back to the center. And we all know
what tacking back to the center means. It doesn't mean
actually centrist policies in any way, even if that were
a desirable thing, but it means more big business, more donors,
and will create a death spiral because who will vote
for that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, one hundred percent. I even tried to redefine
what I think politics is in order to help the
right of get better at actually serving the people. And
you see this dual access of economic freedom and authoritarianism,
and I think that that doesn't really work anymore in
my opinion, it doesn't reflect what's actually going on. I
would replace the two axises with trust and authority and
grift tolerance. And when you do that, people who are
very intolerant of like theft from the system. You can
call that economic theft, you can call it like government grift.
And people who have zero trust and authority are in
a quadrant I call burn it down, where they think
the system they don't trust anybody to fix it, and
they think the system is screwed. And I think that
that's like most people, sixty sixty five percent of Americans.
It's why Donald Trump was able to get and a
lot of them are low propensity voters who would support
a movement that could actually do this. And then I
think Republicans right now are in high authority trust because
they are the authority and they certainly are tolerating the
grift right now. So you have Republicans and their base
in two totally separate parts of the quadrant. Now I
think in the other two quadrants you kind of have
the Democrat side. So you have these people who have
a lot of authority trust, but then they're not tolerating
the way the system's working, the grift tolerance. And those
are people who are like, well, elites need to run this,
but I don't like their elites. Pete HEGXEF makes me cringe.
I think Pete Booter Judge could do a better job,
right And then you and so I think that's most
of your Democrat voters and obviously they're retarded. And then
in the lower right you have low authority trust, but
they love the grift and that's like, that's your core
kami in the Democrat Party. That's like AOC. They don't
mean that stuff they're talking about. They just want to
take the system back over so that they can continue
to plunder. And like, I think that that's where it is,
and you're like, I don't know if blood bass the
right term. It's actually kind of surprising how close the
polling is, and so I think for the major elections
will be surprised that Republicans actually do better than maybe
even the polling says. But there's a million miles between
now and then. There is demoralization, certainly, but we're also
I think, going to see increasingly insane's stuff out of
the Democrats, which means that we might be more locked
into like a really tight race where people are fighting
over individual seats because it's only Democrat plus three in
the generic ballot, which means basically a toss up. And
then the map, you know, who knows whether Jerry Mannering
situation is going to be, So that could be bad
unless they arrest Act Blue and put paper ballots in place.
And it's like a lot of like possible exogenous changes
that could fix things. But like again, I think the
bar is real low, and they brought me to the
White House and I laid out a very clear plan,
like I don't think this is hopeless at all. It's
very very very easy, in my opinion, how you would
fix this. But the problem is, I think that the
Trump administration is just not capable of it. And the
advice was very simple. It's like, sir, your approval rating
is kind of okay, but the Republican Party is just
seen as completely feckless and incompetent. And so you, in
my opinion, instead of saying, well, we're already here, there's
golden age because I brought down egg prices, that he
should acknowledge act the actual scope of the true failures
of the system, call out the corporatism, call out the oligarchy.
Tell Americans that you're going to restore economic capability to
younger voters and work with the Republican Party to lay
out a long term strategy. What that looks like, a
contract for America, economic populism, restore American dream for the
young voters. That's prong one, and Prong two is brutal
and visible government reform. You have to walk people through
cleansing each government agency. Because the polling shows that like
over eighty percent of Trump voters think the FBI and
the CIA and other agencies still in need major reform.
So like Cash Bongin or Dan bongino in Cash tweeting
about the stuff they did in the FBI, it's inadequate.
The system got so bad that people need to see tears.
And so this is such a big fix that it's
going to take more than a year. He won't be
able to accomplish that mission. He won't be able to
deliver the Golden Age to America. I said that he
should show them a golden path. You could call it
the fight Fight Fight plan for America and just get
just say what you're gonna get done between now and
November and give people a reason to vote for Republicans
and like nothing, and it's it's I'm starting to get
really black pilled because I was I was looking and
Trump's talked more publicly about Miriam Maidelson than he's talked
about under forty voters being able to buy houses.
Speaker 2: Well, and look like Miriam Madelson has a lot of money,
but she only has one vote, whereas under forty potential
home buyers is and I'm by no means a poster
a larger percentage of the population than Miriam Adelson.
Speaker 3: That's the problem. Nobody represents the American people. And Trump's
trying to he wants to, but at the end of
the day, like the feeling I got is that there
wasn't some kind of like four dimensional strategy behind the scenes,
Like I definitely think they came into the White House
with a list of one hundred and fifty executive orders
that they wanted to sign and the people that they
wanted to get into office. But there wasn't this like
they were not following Project twenty twenty five. Let's just
put it that way, right. And one of the reasons
I think the beginning of the year felt so successful
is because the executive orders were good and they were bold,
but also because Elon was laying out a lot of
air cover. And what happens is, in my opinion, if
you throw out enough positive stuff. I had to say
the word vibe. But the vibe is such that people
will overlook any of the small failings. So take that
Rob Reiner tweet. If he had done that in February,
everybody would have been like, I don't care. Look at
all the people in Washington, DC trying to get criminal
defense attorneys, you know, like that's what would have happened.
But now it's like, why did he tweet that this
is terrible? Why are the wheels falling off? And so
the problem is is that they got rid of Doge
like on purpose. And I don't know if it was
a Trump decision or that Elon freaked out about the
way that Congress was treating him, but I very much
think that they the one big beautiful bill I think
was a Republican like Trump knows they can't get anything through.
He needs legislation. He can't write the bill himself. It's
probably have been it was probably being written four years ago,
just waiting for Republicans to get back into office, right,
and it's all these favors and gimme dats and backscratching,
and so they that was a Republican DC piece of garbage.
And I think that they did as much as they
could to make it look like Trump's stuff, but it
certainly was never going to have any of the Doge
thing in it. And I think Elon freaked out and
they're like, Okay, can fine screw you, get away from me.
We don't need you. And I also think probably right
out of the gate, the Israel backers for Trump were
very very same thing. They've been waiting for four years.
We need action. We now all of a sudden, the
Enrichmond is so is too high. The irishment's too high.
And I think that Trump told Bbe probably behind the scenes.
I'm just guessing to like, you know, back off, like dude,
pump the brakes a little bit. I need the Republican
bill through. And then what happened is the second the
writing was on the wall, the r got kicked and
it looked like the one big beautiful bill was going
to pass. Then it's time to bomb. I ran. So
you have all of these special interests in all their
monetary things and all their punch lists, and there was
never a punch list for the American people. There just wasn't.
I mean, like the executive orders were it, and there
aren't any anymore. And so what's the plan. And so
the Republican inability to acknowledge the root cause of what's
afflicting America is, in my opinion, the biggest dereliction of duty.
Because we know the left is insane. So if they're
not going to do it, who's going to do it?
Who's supposed to be the responsible, objective, pragmatic task the
task masters that say no instead of democratic socialism, which
will probably suck, here's your viable alternative. And we see
over and over again. They literally can't. So the healthcare
situation is a perfect example. Obamacare happened. We knew it
was going to suck. They ran on repealing Obamacare, they
never did it. They fund raised off the repealing Obamacare,
they never did it. And so we know we have
these subsidies coming, we know it's going to be a fight.
They have months to deal with it. They spend hundreds
of millions a year on conservative think tanks on health policy.
We have a lot of big brains working on that.
And the Republican solution to healthcare is Trump negotiating an
MFN which will probably reduce healthcare prices three percent healthcare expenditures,
but healthcare expenditures the government subsidized portion of healthcare expenditures
like ten percent of our GDP or something ridiculous like that.
So we're talking about a very very very small amount.
And then the Republican legislative advent like response, because these
subsidies are a wealth transfer, right, they tax people and
then they give those taxes to other people. Well, the
Republican answer was also a wealth transfer. It's like, okay,
we're still going to tax people and give it to
other people, but instead of putting that money directly attached
to your plan in the marketplace, We're just going to
dump it in a bank account that's held at JP Morgan.
Like that was the responsible sides answer healthcare costs, And
it's like what about, No, we got to fire the
entire managerial class that's strangling healthcare. We got to break
up the regulatory capture. We have to hold these companies
accountable for killing people so that they actually have studies
that show efficacy and safety, like correctly, right, Like all
of these things that we know that you were if
you or I were Franco in charge of the entire
healthcare industry, Like I could fix that problem. It's not
that hard. You don't need to be I don't think
you really need to be a policy wonk to know that.
Like we probably shouldn't throttle the supply of doctors, Like
that's probably a bad idea. And maybe everything doesn't need
to be a super expensive pharmaceutical drug that is barely
effective at all. Like the number on REMS desi vieer
is like, wow, the polling we poll on REMS desiviere,
which costs I don't know, twenty thirty forty thousand it
was rushed through, it never had really safety trials, so
to speak, and the efficacy was never that high. I think,
I don't want to put words in his mouth, but
of the people who said they had a person die
in the hospital of COVID, people thought that hospital protocols
were complicit forty seven percent to thirty six percent. So
America knows it. It's like these pharmaceutical companies kill people,
and uh, we're like nothing, not even an acknowledgment. Like
I guess it's good we're not gonna have red dye
number forty or whatever, but but we're all gonna feel
we're all going to die because we're fighting a civil
war because healthcare took about twenty trillion of our thirty
eight trillion, Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Well, the same thing you see like poignantly in like
the UK or you know, Europe, where they have a
you know, a more formalized system, but it's like the
entire state is being absorbed into a pension program and
that becomes the point of England is the NHS or
you know, whatever alternative systems are, and it's like, look, man,
like that is a real possibility, and it seems as
if the way we're going to do that is not
through nationalized system, but it basically comes out to the
same thing. Like, one of the few areas of growth,
particularly in like flyover America is medical systems, right, is
you know, whether you go to you know, hospice, which
is one of the few areas that a lot of
hospital changes make money. And like, if you know a
little bit about this, I you know, worked in this industry.
But effectively, the combination of retirement homes and hospice are
explicitly designed to reduce your income, your net worth to
zero by the end of your life, to completely take
that from your family redistribute it to that system. At
which point it's like, well, even if people don't know
that particularly, they see it. They see that, you know,
Grandma died penniless. They see that, you know, an entire
generation of wealth just got absorbed into.
Speaker 3: How are you involved in the industry? That interests me
because that's perverse because this generational wealth that the boomers received,
that theoretically they should be passing on to the children
is going to be harvested by corporations.
Speaker 2: I won't say I worked for a medical company that
provided being very vague here for obvious reasons, sure, but
specific medical equipment oftentimes, I mean, you were you could
very easily end up with it, but a lot of
it was at nursing homes or you'd see people who
were at nursing homes or hospice and you're like, I
mean not to be grim, but it's like, hey, look like,
if you've really got three weeks to live, why are
we running a hard test on you? Like, I don't
want to be rude here, but like we know the prognosis,
and then between that and knowing other people who worked
in that industry, you see that Like I can't say that,
but there are there have been instances where a medical
group connected to a hospital will get in trouble for fraud.
And admittedly this is caught within the system, but it's
oftentimes not particularly in areas like oncology and hospice, where
they are deliberately Okay, what do you.
Speaker 4: Want for lunch?
Speaker 3: Let's cut to the chase.
Speaker 4: I want cookies that's off the table, Broccoli and pasta,
pasta and a bag of crisps. No deal. Ah'm on
tomato sandwhich my final offer, white bread, brown bread. Gunness
of both deal fel Johnston, Mooney and O'Brien goodness of both.
It has the smoothness of white bread with all the
goodness of home meal. It's the bread where both sides win.
So he was like messaging me all night and then
he just ghosted me your way.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: He was like, you're so hot, I want to come over, okay,
And I was like cool, and he was like, I'm
on my way, driving over right now. And then nothing.
Speaker 1: Phone use while driving can be deadly. Your phone. It
won't kill you to put it.
Speaker 4: Away from the road Safety Authority visit orsa do.
Speaker 2: IE funneling people into those programs because they're incredibly expensive
and they can collect a lot of money, and so
they will funnel someone who could have lived another three
or four years on the hospice so they can take
that and siphon it up. That is all alleged.
Speaker 3: It's not going to kill them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, literally, And so you look at that and you're like, okay, well,
like that is creating an immense amount of anger. And
when you know, like look like even Curtis Jarvin of
all people, was talking about this, but I thought was interesting.
But he was talking about the fact that you know,
healthcare has sort of reached this point where even in
his wealthy San Francisco bubble, large portions of people are
simply making a bet, simply saying, well, I can't afford this,
so I'll just roll the dice and hope that nothing happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, those are the people that have to
pay for the end of life care for boomers. They're
subsidizing boomers. Everything's about that freaking generation. And we haven't
even seen the full wave in my opinion, of chronic chemotherapy,
of the diabetes like end of life care, of all
of the hospice, of all the insurance money that's going
to go to the boomer generation. So they literally stripped
mind the economy and they're gonna give us a big
middle finger on the way out. And already healthcare is
like the biggest employer in almost every state now. But
what blows my mind is, like, look back at the
absolute state of Americans, like building the freaking you know
kind of railroad, right, like freaking terraforming the West, the wilderness,
and like I look at pictures of the Chicago Columbian
Exposition of eighteen ninety three and just look at it
and say that that was America, like that Ferris wheel
they built, like those vast Greco Roman columns, this amazing
thing they put together in like six months, and whatever
it is. And now we're saying, as Americans, we can't
step into the healthcare industry and immediately spot the misalignment
of pricing incentives that are causing this. Why do we not?
Why why can we send a man on the moon
but we can't immediately say, well, wait a minute, they
can order all these expensive tests whenever they want, and
we have we have have Medicare codes for things that
aren't going to change anybody's life, but it's the gold
standard because somebody took like a bribe. Is this really
what's gonna kill us? And it is. If we had
capped I had rock run this. If we had capped
Medicare and Medicaid at a percent of GDP in nineteen
seventy and just kept it there, then we would have
I think it was twenty one trillion less in debt,
might have been nineteen Sorry, correct me if I'm wrong.
So I like, that's it. The dollar is gonna die.
The American you know, reserve currency status is eventually going
to go away, and it was because we promised too
much healthcare to people that didn't even work, so that
doctors could drive Mercedes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean it's it's killing doctors as well, right,
Like the the bizarre push and pull has created the
system where doctors are also punished for hyper productivity. There's
a person I know quite well who's literally been fired
for doing too much because it's not billable. Right. We
don't care about what you do functionally. What we care
about is RVUS. What we care about is billable codes.
Discussion for another time, Mark. Unfortunately, I'm getting a text
from my wife that I need to go. But this
was a fascinating discussion. And dude, where can people find
you and find your work?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well you could get tweets like that very sentiment
that you just talked about. I would just like to
see a healthcare system where fat people have to run,
you know, like you could go to honest Polster on
Twitter and see wonderful takes like that. Our main account
is ras must and Underscore Pole and we have a
YouTube video as well where we go into the numbers
and talk about polling and what it means and where
we're going, which is pretty wild right now, so I
hope to see people there, ras Must and Underscore Pole
on YouTube as well.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 2: Thanks man, This was not at all an encouraging conversation,
but I hope it was informant.
Speaker 3: Go get a drink. Yeah.
Speaker 2: As far as my stuff, this is what I do.
If you want to support me, you can throw me
a few bucks a month on Patreon, Substack or gum Road.
You get the episodes early in ad free. Can also
check out our sponsor, Axius Remote Fitness Coaching. Again, Mark,
I really appreciate you coming on man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this was great. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2: Good conversation to everyone at home, keep your head up.
Why can't last forever? Good night,