1 00:00:17,559 --> 00:00:20,399 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:20,519 --> 00:00:24,120 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the 3 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,800 Federalist and your experience shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:29,199 --> 00:00:32,119 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,240 the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, 6 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,640 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:39,759 --> 00:00:42,640 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:48,640 Our guest today is Will Hild, Executive director of Consumers Research, 9 00:00:49,039 --> 00:00:53,840 America's oldest consumer protection agency. Here is the question that 10 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:58,719 we begin with today. Has the woke movement in corporate 11 00:00:58,759 --> 00:01:03,880 America fizzled out? Or are the diversity equity inclusion corporate 12 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:09,560 cultists simply rebranding going underground. Well, welcome to this edition 13 00:01:09,599 --> 00:01:10,760 of the Federalist Radio Hour. 14 00:01:11,359 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 2: Great to be with you, Thanks for having me on. 15 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I guess that really is the question. We've 16 00:01:16,519 --> 00:01:21,480 seen a little sea change, if you will, from corporate America, 17 00:01:21,519 --> 00:01:29,439 at least publicly public facing. A number of companies have decided, 18 00:01:29,599 --> 00:01:32,120 at least they have said that they're going to abandon 19 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:39,359 their woke policies DEI and others like that. But what 20 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,200 are you seeing as you keep an eye on this 21 00:01:43,239 --> 00:01:44,200 as a watchdog. 22 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think what's typifying the space right now is 23 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,079 certainly a retreat from the high water mark of wokeness 24 00:01:51,079 --> 00:01:55,760 and DEI that we saw probably two to four years ago. 25 00:01:56,319 --> 00:01:58,840 But if you look at what's actually happening at a 26 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:03,239 lot of these companies, they're trying to just go underground 27 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,319 and maintain a lot of the same activities that they 28 00:02:06,359 --> 00:02:09,879 were doing. Now there's sort of a generous interpretation of 29 00:02:09,879 --> 00:02:12,879 that activity in an ungenerous one. I lean towards the 30 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,039 ungenerous one, but you might I might assume that given 31 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:17,680 the fact that I'm in the business of fighting it. 32 00:02:17,759 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: But I'll give both views. 33 00:02:20,439 --> 00:02:24,439 Speaker 3: One is that you know, politics has, you know, wavered 34 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,240 back and forth to extremes from the corporate perspective over 35 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:32,680 the last you know, ten years, and you're never more 36 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,680 than one election away from being in a lot of 37 00:02:34,719 --> 00:02:38,680 trouble with either party for either doing DEI or not 38 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,199 doing d EI. We've seen letters go out from Democrats, 39 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:47,400 particularly the Black Caucus in Congress, basically attacking companies as 40 00:02:47,479 --> 00:02:50,319 soon as they see any kind of retreat from DI 41 00:02:50,719 --> 00:02:53,199 and so from the corporate perspective, they're sort of stuck 42 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,680 trying to make both sides happy in a way that's 43 00:02:55,759 --> 00:02:59,919 not really going to work, because one side wants race 44 00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:05,319 discrimination and quotas and explicit carve outs for particular identity 45 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,400 groups and is willing to use state power to punish 46 00:03:08,439 --> 00:03:11,280 companies that won't do that, and one side wants us 47 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:16,240 to follow roughly a color blind meritocracy and is willing 48 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,879 to punish companies with state power that refused to do that. 49 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,599 The more I guess less generous view is that what's 50 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,879 going on is a lot of these companies are really 51 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,560 in the tank for, or they have staffed up with 52 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,919 people that are in the tank for, treating the corporation 53 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,840 as a political project, and that's really all they wake 54 00:03:38,919 --> 00:03:40,680 up in the morning to go do. It's not really 55 00:03:40,719 --> 00:03:43,960 about serving consumers, it's not really about making money for shareholders. 56 00:03:44,319 --> 00:03:46,560 What they really want to do every morning is turn 57 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,680 whatever corporation they work for into more and more of 58 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,240 a political utility for the Democratic Party and the progressive left. 59 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,240 And until those people are removed, I really don't think 60 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,759 we will fully solve the problem. We can certainly curtail 61 00:03:59,759 --> 00:04:02,159 that activities, we can certainly make it harder for them 62 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:02,680 to operate. 63 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,159 Speaker 2: But ultimately, until people. 64 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,919 Speaker 3: Go to work wanting to go to work and wanting 65 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:13,560 to serve consumers and serve shareholders and ultimately just make money, 66 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,399 that's the problem is not really going to go away, 67 00:04:17,439 --> 00:04:19,639 because they will be waiting for their opportunities to push 68 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,600 a political agenda with their roles. 69 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,519 Speaker 1: I think what you define as the less generous version 70 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,079 of these ideas is actually quite generous. I mean, what 71 00:04:31,519 --> 00:04:33,759 have we seen over the last several years in this 72 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:38,160 country but kind of the leftist takeover of institutions, including 73 00:04:38,639 --> 00:04:44,279 Corporate America in these human resources department, marketing departments and 74 00:04:44,319 --> 00:04:47,399 all of that, and it has cost them dearly willed. 75 00:04:47,879 --> 00:04:52,680 They're losing lawsuit after lawsuit, and understandably so because what 76 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,720 they're engaging in is nothing nothing short of discrimination. 77 00:04:58,160 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: You're one hundred percent correct. 78 00:05:00,079 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 3: I think that's why I mentioned I lean towards the 79 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:07,079 ungenerous view that really they're not motivated by a desire 80 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:12,000 to sort of navigate the current political conflicts. Really, what 81 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,199 they're motivated by is a way to get away with 82 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,399 as much racial discrimination as they can, and frankly, are 83 00:05:18,399 --> 00:05:21,160 willing to pay the price even at some high levels 84 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,839 when they get caught, and yet we don't see them 85 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,040 fully changing lanes. I'd give some concrete examples. One of 86 00:05:27,079 --> 00:05:28,680 the things that we see them a lot of these 87 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,160 companies doing is simply changing the terms that they use. 88 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,319 And you know, everyone saw this coming, even the Trump 89 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,360 administration knew this was going to happen. But as the 90 00:05:37,439 --> 00:05:40,319 term DEI has become synonymous with what it is, which 91 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,759 is racial and sex based discrimination, they have changed the 92 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,839 things like Department of Belonging. We did a woke alert 93 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,560 a few weeks ago, from months ago, excuse me, they 94 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,079 basically talked about five different companies that do that. One 95 00:05:54,079 --> 00:05:57,319 of those companies actually threaten to assume me if if 96 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,160 I talked about them anymore, and that was that was 97 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,800 just to be clear Nationwide Insurance, and I will continue 98 00:06:01,879 --> 00:06:04,079 to talk about them because they have a long track 99 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,839 record of engaging in that kind of discrimination. And they 100 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,199 can threaten me all they like, but they're still going 101 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:16,079 to hear about it. So it's a situation where clearly 102 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,920 they have you know, the people at the top, or 103 00:06:18,959 --> 00:06:20,439 some of the people at the top, may just want 104 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,000 this all to go away, but they have been infiltrated, 105 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,439 and they have allowed themselves to be infiltrated with people 106 00:06:25,439 --> 00:06:28,839 who actively seek to do this for its own sake, 107 00:06:29,399 --> 00:06:31,959 and a lot of these companies are just going to 108 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,160 have to get ruthless with rooting those people out or 109 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:35,480 it's going to cost them. And I think one of 110 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,480 the great developments we've seen in the Trump administration has 111 00:06:38,519 --> 00:06:41,319 not just been the executive orders pushing back on DEI, 112 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,199 but the choosing of personnel that I hope and I 113 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,680 believe will really. 114 00:06:47,399 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 2: Go after these companies. 115 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,199 Speaker 3: What we've seen from Harmeat Dylan running the Civil Rights 116 00:06:51,199 --> 00:06:53,040 Division at Department of Justice. 117 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:53,519 Speaker 2: Is very heartening. 118 00:06:54,399 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 3: You know, we're early on in her tenure, so there, 119 00:06:56,759 --> 00:06:59,040 you know, I don't they can't point to examples of 120 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,079 lawsuits quite yet, but at least her rhetoric and the 121 00:07:02,079 --> 00:07:05,160 way that she's framing the issue is very promising and 122 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,439 very optimistic for these companies paying a price for breaking 123 00:07:09,519 --> 00:07:11,240 federal and state labor law. 124 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: I love to see. 125 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,879 Speaker 3: There have been a number of attorneys generals, Republican state 126 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,000 attorney generals who have been pushing back on some of 127 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,879 this stuff that said there could always be doing more 128 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,639 because a lot of these corporations are breaking not just 129 00:07:24,639 --> 00:07:27,920 federal law, but state law. And so seeing the Republican 130 00:07:27,959 --> 00:07:31,160 ags continue to engage in this space during the Trump 131 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,199 administration in ways that they were doing during the Biden 132 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,759 administration when they didn't have the cover of the federal government, 133 00:07:36,879 --> 00:07:38,680 I think is something that we really hope to see 134 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,279 and as conservative as we want to continue to push 135 00:07:41,279 --> 00:07:43,240 for because we don't want to get to this situation 136 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,000 where we just think, well, har meet Scott It she's great, 137 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,160 and she is great, but she cannot be suing the 138 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,360 literally hundreds, if not thousands of companies that were engaging 139 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:54,279 in this kind of behavior. 140 00:07:54,319 --> 00:07:56,079 Speaker 2: And it's going to take a long. 141 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 3: Steady process of punishing these companies for that where this 142 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:01,480 stuff is really rooted out. 143 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,639 Speaker 1: If I may ask, where does the what's the litigation 144 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,480 status with nationwide right now? 145 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 3: Well, you know they they called and threatened, and I 146 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,160 told them I would take a look at it, and 147 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,000 as soon as I did even more research, I found 148 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,759 just a panoply of evidence things like supplier diversity programs 149 00:08:17,759 --> 00:08:22,720 where they had set internal incentives like literal financial incentives 150 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,199 for people to achieve certain racial makeups of their suppliers, 151 00:08:26,839 --> 00:08:29,000 and that is not my words, that's not my assertions. 152 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,639 That is on that is on an official document they 153 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,120 sent the state of California to brag about all the 154 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:36,399 things they were doing to increase diversity in order to 155 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,200 get the business of that state. So, you know, I 156 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,519 don't know what I Theoretically, I think the you know, 157 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,720 statue limitations on defamation is is pretty long. 158 00:08:45,759 --> 00:08:47,919 Speaker 2: So in theory they could be putting together a lawsuit. 159 00:08:48,159 --> 00:08:51,399 Speaker 3: I doubt it, though, because I've got the receipts and 160 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,240 they're going to be facing a lot of counter examples 161 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:57,840 of all the many ways they do they did engage 162 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,799 in forms of discrimination, So I don't think I don't 163 00:09:00,799 --> 00:09:03,039 think they I think they like to talk tough. And 164 00:09:03,039 --> 00:09:04,960 that's a lesson, by the way, for a lot of 165 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,120 citizen journalists. I know we have a lot of people 166 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,799 who listen to this show who might have seen things themselves. 167 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:11,919 One you can always reach out to us. My My 168 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,279 email is whild at Consumers Research dot org, and we 169 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,159 love to help whistleblowers. We blew the door off of 170 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:20,720 state farm insurance a number of years ago for pushing 171 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,960 transgender ideology on children. So if you have something like that, 172 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,799 feel free to bring it to us, and we will 173 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:27,679 vet it and then we can be the front of it. 174 00:09:27,879 --> 00:09:30,879 But also just in general, these corporations talk a lot 175 00:09:30,919 --> 00:09:32,960 tougher than they are and they think that by you know, 176 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,360 having some big shot corporate attorney call, they'll back you off. 177 00:09:36,399 --> 00:09:38,679 But in a lot of cases, you know, if you've 178 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,600 got the truth on your side, you know, reach out 179 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,200 because we can certainly make make that a very tough 180 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:45,559 proposition for them to go after you. 181 00:09:46,039 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: Well, I think they're attorneys. They're big shot attorneys. Fully 182 00:09:49,279 --> 00:09:52,360 understand that discovery goes both ways, right bingo. 183 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:53,879 Speaker 2: And that's a that's a great point. 184 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,759 Speaker 3: I you know, I basically said, listen, if you want 185 00:09:56,759 --> 00:09:58,679 to assume me, that's fine. I'm going to get into all 186 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,440 those emails, and I have a feeling that you you know, 187 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,360 you're not going to like what we find, just based 188 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,159 on what was publicly available with me. One of the 189 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,080 things that Nationwide was bragging about was that they had 190 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,879 affinity groups internally, mentorship programs specifically for women and women 191 00:10:11,879 --> 00:10:14,919 of color that were meant to increase the number of 192 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,919 those groups in leadership. So you cannot have it's a 193 00:10:17,919 --> 00:10:20,519 matter of black letter law. You cannot have training programs 194 00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:23,960 and mentorship programs and development programs that are specifically carved 195 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,840 out for specific identity groups in race and sex, and 196 00:10:26,879 --> 00:10:29,320 they were bragging about that and how successful it had been. 197 00:10:29,639 --> 00:10:33,639 So imagine, if that's what they're publicly talking about in 198 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,799 the media, what are their emails going to show when 199 00:10:37,039 --> 00:10:39,000 we crack those open. So I don't think I'm not 200 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,120 you know, if they want to take on that fight, 201 00:10:41,159 --> 00:10:43,039 I will gladly fight it. But I don't I don't 202 00:10:43,039 --> 00:10:45,679 expect to get any any legal documents or complaints from 203 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:46,399 them anytime soon. 204 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: So are you saying that Nationwide isn't on everyone's side? 205 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,399 Speaker 3: They're not on our side. In fact, if you go 206 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,399 to not on Ourside dot com you can see the 207 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,480 full write up that we did on all the things 208 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,399 that they're doing to push awoke a Jen And you know, 209 00:11:01,399 --> 00:11:03,720 while we're on the topic, you know, since since we've 210 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,120 already kind of cracked cracked up with a file on them, 211 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,679 one of the interesting things that I found on them 212 00:11:08,799 --> 00:11:12,159 was that they sponsor a children's hospital in Ohio that's 213 00:11:12,159 --> 00:11:14,360 got that that bears their brand the same way you 214 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,240 might you know, put like Capital one on Capital one 215 00:11:17,279 --> 00:11:20,159 Arena or something like that. What's amazing is the CEO 216 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,000 is the chair of that hospital, so he is directly 217 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,320 in the same way that he is you know, directs 218 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:30,039 the insurance company, he's also really in the top leadership 219 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,240 of that children's hospital. And what I what we found 220 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,360 is that startlingly, they have a program called the Thrive 221 00:11:36,759 --> 00:11:41,279 program that provided gender affirming care so to speak, for 222 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,480 children under the age of eighteen that included injecting them 223 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,720 with cross sex hormones. So in other words, injecting men 224 00:11:48,759 --> 00:11:52,559 with testosterone and us injecting women with testosterone and men 225 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,279 with with estrogen. And I'm sure a number of others 226 00:11:56,399 --> 00:11:59,200 obviously don't engage in sexual mutilation of minors, so I 227 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,080 wouldn't know all the exact technical details, but in other words, 228 00:12:02,159 --> 00:12:06,320 cross sex hormones to to you know, begin the process 229 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,000 of puberty blocking and changing someone over. 230 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 2: To the opposite sex. 231 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 3: Obviously that's not even theoretically possible, but you know the 232 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,320 way they talk about it, and so you know, not 233 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,320 only did I find that they were engaging in programs 234 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,279 that encourage racial discrimination and they were incentivizing it, they 235 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:27,320 were also directly tied to and funding the the cross 236 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,759 sex hormone injections into minors, which is now illegal in 237 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,039 Ohio law. This dated from before the law was passed, 238 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:35,960 and I'm waiting to get an update from the Do 239 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,519 No Harm you assume me to stop the harm database 240 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,799 that tracks all this. We'll see if they've been following 241 00:12:42,399 --> 00:12:45,240 Ohio law. But it was it was pretty startling to 242 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,440 see a company so so cocky that they're going to 243 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,919 threaten to assume me, But then the facts are just 244 00:12:50,039 --> 00:12:53,039 could not be more against them on every area of wokeness. 245 00:12:53,440 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, a major ensurer operating aildren's hospital with the same 246 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:09,960 sort of DEI principles. It operates the insurance side. What 247 00:13:10,039 --> 00:13:14,200 could possibly go wrong? Of course, And I guess you 248 00:13:14,279 --> 00:13:17,399 brought that up before, and that is it is a 249 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,639 new era, and I think corporations recognize that with the 250 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:26,600 Trump administration, the Executive Order and an aggressive Civil Rights 251 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,759 Division in the Department of Justice that is willing to 252 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:35,679 do this. Are you seeing accountability and how will that 253 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,360 resonate going into the next several years. 254 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it does look like we're starting to see accountability. 255 00:13:41,879 --> 00:13:44,399 I think the dj already announced that they have several 256 00:13:44,399 --> 00:13:48,080 hospitals under investigation for this. They haven't named them for 257 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,679 obvious privacy reasons, but it does seem like they're taking 258 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,639 it seriously. And it's great to see the Trump administration, 259 00:13:55,519 --> 00:13:59,320 the President specifically, but also the administration in general, using 260 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,519 a all fronts approach war on the mutilation of miners. 261 00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:05,320 And what I mean by that is, you know, Trump 262 00:14:05,399 --> 00:14:09,679 has directed the Federal Trade Commission to also crack down 263 00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:13,399 on the advertising of what quote unquote gender affirming care 264 00:14:13,759 --> 00:14:17,759 can accomplish, because it's been much basically lied about to 265 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,799 miners and to adults about what is possible. You cannot 266 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:25,559 change your sex. That's you know, every DNA of every 267 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,039 cell in your body is coded male or female, and 268 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,559 there's nothing anything medical science can do to change that. 269 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,559 And that's not the way this stuff was being advertised. 270 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,240 So using the laws that we have against misleading marketing 271 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,240 deceptive marketing practices, I think is an absolutely appropriate approach. 272 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,080 And I don't know that not to speak ill of 273 00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:47,720 prior presidents, but I don't know of any other president 274 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,120 on the conservative side that viewed things that way. They 275 00:14:52,159 --> 00:14:54,480 would see things as a discrete issue, either an SEC 276 00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:57,120 issue or a DOJ issue, or a civil rights issue. 277 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,320 But when you're dealing with something as evil as the 278 00:14:59,399 --> 00:15:03,840 mutilation and and abuse of minors. Every single agency has 279 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,120 a role that can touch on it, has a role 280 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,240 to play. You shouldn't just try to limit it. And 281 00:15:08,279 --> 00:15:11,360 it's been really heartening to see the Trump administration take 282 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,639 a whole house approach to pushing back on this. 283 00:15:16,919 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 4: Ronald Reagan was right and it's worse than we thought. 284 00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:22,279 The Watch Dot on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski 285 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,200 every day Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and 286 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,960 the economy and how it affects your wallet. If I'm 287 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,600 from the government and I'm here to help, isn't bad enough. 288 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,679 The government spends one hundred and eighty one billion dollars 289 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,879 per year on direct cash to private businesses. Did you 290 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:38,799 see a check in the mail? Whether it's happening in 291 00:15:38,879 --> 00:15:41,279 DC or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. 292 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,279 Be informed. Check out the Watch Dot on Wall Street 293 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,200 podcast with Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you 294 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:47,039 get your podcasts. 295 00:15:51,159 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: Indeed, and what we're seeing from the left and leftist 296 00:15:55,080 --> 00:16:00,480 run corporations, is you know, in this particular arena, in 297 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:07,000 in general, is you know, supporting of massive mental illness? 298 00:16:07,159 --> 00:16:11,240 That is ongoing, and I think the research continues to 299 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,240 show more and more and more how dangerous, how perilous 300 00:16:15,919 --> 00:16:20,720 all of this is. You do have the Woke Tracker, 301 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,440 the Woke Alert, and I think I think this is 302 00:16:25,559 --> 00:16:28,000 a very interesting You kind of touched upon it before. 303 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,960 Within that one of your latest updates, you note that 304 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,840 many corporations are putting progressive activists and their dangerous agendas 305 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,399 ahead of customers. They'll only succeed if we look the 306 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:45,919 other way. The Voke Alert obviously you're searching for this 307 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,399 kind of stuff all the time, but you're also getting 308 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,279 tips and information from the public about it all. One 309 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,639 of your latest vocal alerts talks about TJ Max, which 310 00:16:55,679 --> 00:17:00,399 owns popular retour tail stores like TJ Max, Home Goods, 311 00:16:59,799 --> 00:17:05,000 Mars and others, and also Carmaker Kia are the two 312 00:17:05,039 --> 00:17:10,519 corporate sponsors of the Rainbow Library, which injects woke ideology 313 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:15,599 into K twelve classrooms with non academic picture books, pushing 314 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:21,240 concepts like transgenderism onto kids as young as five years old. 315 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,960 This is absolutely amazing. Let's talk a little bit about 316 00:17:25,039 --> 00:17:27,759 that on the Woke Alert and others that you're bringing 317 00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:28,839 to the public's attention. 318 00:17:29,599 --> 00:17:30,279 Speaker 2: Yes, certainly. 319 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,279 Speaker 3: Well in that particular case, it was startling to find 320 00:17:33,279 --> 00:17:36,119 that these corporations felt it was appropriate to be engaging 321 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,519 at all in the ideological brainwashing of kids as young 322 00:17:39,559 --> 00:17:41,599 as five. I'm sorry to say that these are not 323 00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:43,960 the only Kia and TJ Max are not the only 324 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,599 cases we've seen. I mentioned alluded to earlier before that 325 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,000 we were given information from a whistleblower in I think 326 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,000 twenty twenty two or twenty twenty three that showed that 327 00:17:54,039 --> 00:17:59,319 State Farm had asked its agents to donate books targeting 328 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,839 kids as young as five with transgendeology. Kids literally books 329 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,119 literally with the title of a kid's book about being 330 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,759 transgender or a kid's book about being non binary, and 331 00:18:09,799 --> 00:18:12,559 the plan there was to donate them to public libraries, 332 00:18:12,599 --> 00:18:16,720 into public schools and get them in the hands of children. 333 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,319 Is something in alignment with something called the Gender Cool Project, 334 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,359 which is sort of the precursor to the Trevor Project, 335 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,720 which has kind of become the more more common, more 336 00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:30,559 famous way to to try to inductriate kids with this 337 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,759 insane LGBTQ agenda. And that's one of the reasons why 338 00:18:34,759 --> 00:18:36,920 it's so important for people to sign up for our 339 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,319 WOC alerts because these companies, especially on something like this, 340 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,559 do respond Kia or TJ Max. 341 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 2: I can't remember one of them immediately. 342 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,039 Speaker 3: Dropped the dropped off the sponsorship as soon as as 343 00:18:48,079 --> 00:18:49,359 soon as they were hit, and I think the other 344 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,759 one may have already retracted as well. I have to 345 00:18:51,799 --> 00:18:55,319 go back and check. But you know, to take a 346 00:18:55,319 --> 00:18:57,240 step back and make sort of a meta level point 347 00:18:57,319 --> 00:19:00,640 about why it's so important to get engaged. I think 348 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,240 that for a long time, consumers had a sense of 349 00:19:05,319 --> 00:19:09,200 disempowerment or fatalism around what was going on in the marketplace, 350 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,960 and that there was nothing they could do about it, 351 00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:13,839 and that if these big corporations made a decision, then well, 352 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,839 the smartest people in the room have decided it's to 353 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,079 their benefit and there's nothing we can really say about that. 354 00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:21,319 And a couple of problems with that one. I think 355 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,759 the idea of a free market. You know, that's great 356 00:19:23,799 --> 00:19:26,319 that we generally speaking don't want the heavy hand of 357 00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:29,359 government to get involved in picking winners and losers. But 358 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,119 that isn't to say that conservatives themselves shouldn't be as 359 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,880 vociferous as possible and as vehement as possible and as 360 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:40,200 pugilistic as possible in pushing back against these corporations. That 361 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,839 is exactly what a market is, and that is why 362 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,960 the Left took over a lot of these corporations, is 363 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,359 they weren't afraid to cajole and threaten and pester these 364 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,079 companies into doing what they wanted. And the side that 365 00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:54,680 wants to just be left alone will always lose to 366 00:19:54,759 --> 00:19:56,920 the side that wants to win. And so we have 367 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,000 to be aggressive in you know, not in a violent 368 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,480 way or in a criminal way, but we have to 369 00:20:02,559 --> 00:20:05,359 use both our wallet and our voice to push back 370 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,960 against these corporations if we want them to return to 371 00:20:08,039 --> 00:20:12,440 something you know, we're roughly resembling normalcy or truth in 372 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,920 the way that they're operating. The other thing that's important 373 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,880 to remember is that whenever corporations are focusing on these things, 374 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,119 they are taking their time and attention and money away 375 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,960 from serving you, the consumer. So it's not just a 376 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,799 matter of they're doing something obnoxious you don't like culturally, 377 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,160 like if they you know, like if your neighbor, you know, 378 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,160 painted his house a weird color, right, it is it 379 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:39,960 is materially diletarious to consumers when corporations engage in wokery 380 00:20:40,279 --> 00:20:42,200 because if you can, if you've ever been around any 381 00:20:42,279 --> 00:20:44,119 kind of woke person in corporate America for more than 382 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,400 ten minutes, you realize these people have no intention of 383 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,799 focusing on making better products or lowering prices or innovating 384 00:20:52,319 --> 00:20:55,839 new things in the marketplace. There's sole reason, dature, there's 385 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,599 sole reason for being is to turn the corporation into 386 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,839 a politic utility, and that will always, always, always be 387 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,160 a threat to the consumer. So our woke alerts you 388 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,200 can sign up at Consumers Research dot RG. You just 389 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,319 sign up with your cell phone number. We text you 390 00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:14,680 at max once a week, sometimes you know less than that, 391 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,519 so this isn't You're not going to get spammed or 392 00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:18,839 something like that. But we always include the both the 393 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,799 company being targeted why of course, but also a way 394 00:21:21,839 --> 00:21:24,279 to contact the company and push back, whether that's our 395 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,759 phone or email or both or on social media, because 396 00:21:28,039 --> 00:21:30,000 you know, it's very important to use our wallet to 397 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,440 change our buying patterns and hurt the companies that are 398 00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:36,880 that are betraying our values monetarily, but it's also important 399 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,039 to communicate why we're doing it so they can connect 400 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,480 the decrease in sales to the reasons why they're having problems. 401 00:21:44,039 --> 00:21:47,839 Speaker 1: Our guest today is Will Hild, Executive director of Consumers 402 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:53,480 Research America. Consumers Research America as old as consumer Protection Agency, 403 00:21:54,039 --> 00:21:57,440 and the question we're asking today has the woke movement 404 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:02,400 in corporate America fizzled out? Or are the diversity, equity 405 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:07,200 inclusion corporate cultist simply rebranding. It's a little bit of both, 406 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,920 and we turn our attention to the power of the consumer. 407 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,440 You folks have been in this business for what almost 408 00:22:14,519 --> 00:22:19,680 one hundred years now, as the oldest consumer protection agency, 409 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,599 you know that trend lines are certainly different. This is 410 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,119 a whole different thing though, than new coke old coke. 411 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:33,240 You know, this is new. It's different than rebranding a 412 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,000 popular brand or a new slogan. As you said, this 413 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,839 is about entrenched political interest from the left. A lot 414 00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:47,839 of times, the Marxist left in trying to reshape corporate America, 415 00:22:48,079 --> 00:22:52,640 reshape the buying habits of consumers. At the same time, 416 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,799 the consumer has revolted against this sort of stuff. I mean, 417 00:22:58,039 --> 00:23:02,279 I think about bud Light as perhaps the perfect example 418 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,160 of the consumers saying Nope, nope, not interested in that, 419 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,400 and we're going to take it out on you. How 420 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:14,440 much has the market moved this issue in the direction 421 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:19,720 that we've we've seen against DEI and these other leftist 422 00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:20,720 woke programs. 423 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you've seen monumental shift from its high 424 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,680 water mark probably in twenty twenty one or twenty twenty, 425 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,519 twenty twenty one, that that at that point, I mean, 426 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,799 at some level, the consumer had more to fear from 427 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,480 from the companies that were serving them than than vice versa. 428 00:23:37,559 --> 00:23:39,640 I mean that was sort of the point at which 429 00:23:39,839 --> 00:23:43,759 you know, banks were debanking at an incredible clip. If 430 00:23:43,759 --> 00:23:46,359 you said the wrong thing, you know, companies would make 431 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,119 a big show of saying that they didn't want to 432 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,440 serve you anymore. You had companies like Patagonia saying that 433 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,200 they didn't want to, you know, fulfill orders for petroleum 434 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,160 companies or fossil fuel companies, which is hilarious because ninety 435 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,839 percent how to go to get products or are made 436 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,079 with fossil fuels. So you had these weird situations where 437 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,400 it was almost as if like Corporate America felt that 438 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,160 they were in charge of their customers and not the 439 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,359 other way around. And that's another reason to really push 440 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:19,039 back as vehemently as possible on this phenomenon, because we 441 00:24:19,079 --> 00:24:21,400 just can't live like that. That's not America was not 442 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,920 founded on the idea that people could start companies and 443 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,200 then and then use them to lord over, uh, the 444 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,400 individual and decide how they're going to run their lives, 445 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,880 especially giving them fact, you know, just to take banking 446 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,279 for example, how heavily subsidized that industry is. I mean, 447 00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:39,240 that's ridiculous. They're effectively like a privatized post office. The 448 00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:42,079 idea that they would be in charge of getting to 449 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,279 decide who they they want a bank and who they 450 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,799 don't think is worthy of having a bank account is 451 00:24:46,839 --> 00:24:48,880 just absurd. I think I think they've definitely come off 452 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,799 that position. They're now downplaying you know, they were bragging about, 453 00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:56,319 you know, debanking some people because they you know, had 454 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,559 you were guilty of wrong think or whatever. Now when 455 00:24:59,559 --> 00:25:03,880 I'm into bates or discussions with banking professionals, they constantly 456 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,240 tell me that, oh, the phenomenon wasn't you know, it 457 00:25:06,279 --> 00:25:08,319 was never really that bad, and a lot of cases 458 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,359 that were misunderstandings and that kind of thing. And you know, 459 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,000 I'm sure there were some misarion understandings, but it's insane 460 00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:17,160 to think that there wasn't a real phenomenon as we 461 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,279 saw with like Nigel Faras, a guy who could very 462 00:25:19,319 --> 00:25:22,400 well be the Prime Minister of England at a future date, 463 00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:25,920 was debanked in England. Now, obviously that's a different country, 464 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,400 but you know, it doesn't really matter when you saw 465 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,559 Corporate America pushing this. That was part of what was 466 00:25:31,559 --> 00:25:33,559 so stunning about it is that they were all sort 467 00:25:33,559 --> 00:25:36,720 of acting in lockstep. And when you see someone cancel 468 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,759 like Soay for example, Alex Jones, they would get kicked 469 00:25:39,799 --> 00:25:42,599 off of like four or five major platforms within a day, 470 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,960 you know, within twenty four hours. There's no doubt when 471 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,279 you see that level of concerted effort that there's something 472 00:25:48,319 --> 00:25:50,759 going on behind the scenes that's not just individual companies 473 00:25:50,759 --> 00:25:53,240 making a decision. There's a concerted effort to push a 474 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,680 political agenda. And you know, there's questions of whether that's 475 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,319 even legal, but it certainly isn't the kind of thing 476 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,000 that we should be supporting or allowing in a country 477 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,359 that's sensibly you know, free and one where we want 478 00:26:06,599 --> 00:26:08,799 companies to support our freedoms, not punish them. 479 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,519 Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned the hypocrisy of this too, Patagonia. There 480 00:26:12,519 --> 00:26:15,759 are so many other examples, of course, where it's do 481 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,359 as I say, not as I do. Of course, the 482 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:24,880 same sort of corporate the woke culture corporations that are 483 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:31,799 talking about inclusion are taking their their products, are able 484 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,640 to sell their products at the rate they're selling them 485 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:40,680 thanks to slave labor, you know, overseas somewhere. And so 486 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,839 I think Americans get that, they understand that, And so 487 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,519 I guess, have you done any research, any studies on 488 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:56,000 how much this cult of DEI and ESG how much 489 00:26:56,039 --> 00:27:00,279 it's cost these companies, because you know, you can be 490 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,920 threatened with lawsuits, and they're threatened with lawsuits all the time. 491 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,640 They can deal with the current administration, which you know, 492 00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:12,079 the next administration, as you mentioned before, is subject to change, 493 00:27:12,519 --> 00:27:15,920 but one thing they can't get away from is consumer sentiment. 494 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a great question. 495 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,279 Speaker 3: You know, in total, you would need to add up 496 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,359 so many different factors to figure out how much DEI 497 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,920 has cost these companies, not only the effect on consumer behavior, 498 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,160 but hiring people based on race and sex as opposed 499 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,680 to skill and competency is a great way to get 500 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,119 people that aren't very skilled or competent and so it's 501 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,640 undoubtedly hurt them in terms of performance as well, where 502 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,160 they've put people mediocrits who don't belong there because they 503 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,440 were trying to reach some sort of racial and sex 504 00:27:47,519 --> 00:27:49,400 based being counting, So you'd have to add that in 505 00:27:49,759 --> 00:27:52,519 as well to the overall costs. And then of course, 506 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,200 as these lawsuits percolate, there's going to be I believe, 507 00:27:56,279 --> 00:27:59,240 some probably pretty large judgments coming down. And we've already 508 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,160 seen some company capitulate and you know try to you know, 509 00:28:04,079 --> 00:28:06,759 settle in. Some of those settlements aren't are public, so 510 00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:09,720 it's hard to get a firm grasp on what it 511 00:28:09,759 --> 00:28:12,119 has cost Corporate America to engage in this kind of 512 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,559 obnoxious behavior. And I don't think the number, even for 513 00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:17,960 activities that have already occurred over the last four or 514 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,039 five years, I don't think the consequences of that have 515 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,680 been fully accounted for, you are fully seen yet. So 516 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,440 I think we're going to continue to see this for 517 00:28:26,039 --> 00:28:26,720 a long time. 518 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,039 Speaker 1: So all of that said, and maybe it's this is 519 00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:35,079 a difficult question as well to answer with the numbers, 520 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,880 with the monetary side of it, but how much have 521 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:45,720 these kinds of policies, particularly environmental Social and Governance ESG 522 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,559 policies cost the American investor over the years. 523 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 3: And see that's that's also a wonderful question that I 524 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,680 think more work needs to be done on. And you know, 525 00:28:56,839 --> 00:29:01,079 you look at the point of ESG, especially the E 526 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,480 Porsche and the environmental portion, was to restrict access to 527 00:29:05,599 --> 00:29:12,359 capital through financing and insurance policies to disfavored industries. And 528 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,640 so there has been an effect on investment in fossil 529 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,319 fuel exploration and recovery over the last ten years, in 530 00:29:20,519 --> 00:29:23,920 new mining over the last ten years. And you know, 531 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,599 commodities are cyclical. It takes years for a new project 532 00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:30,559 to come online and start delivering product to the marketplace. 533 00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:34,319 So if you've underinvested in the cycle, you're going to 534 00:29:34,359 --> 00:29:37,559 be paying the price for that in higher prices in 535 00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:40,559 the market, and that's going to feed into inflation for 536 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,880 you know, at least a decade, maybe longer, depending on 537 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,000 what types of things were we're talking about. So again 538 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,160 it's hard to even put a number on it, because 539 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,880 as the thing became more disfavored, you know, companies like 540 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,200 black Rock and State Treed and vanguard banks like JP 541 00:29:57,319 --> 00:29:59,880 Morgan Chase and Wells Fargo and city, who are in 542 00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:02,519 aging in it, who are part of things like the 543 00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:05,039 Glasgow Financial Alliance for net zero and the net zero 544 00:30:05,119 --> 00:30:08,160 Bankers Alliance and the net zero Asset Managers. They've left 545 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,599 all those and they've pretended that we were just it 546 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,240 was all a bunch of marketing. We were really doing 547 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,359 that much. We never really had much of effect on 548 00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:16,440 the market. Well that's because they're getting sued by nineteen 549 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,480 state ags for anti trust activities in the coal market. 550 00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:23,160 So now it's to their advantage to downplay how much 551 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:24,880 of an effect that they were having. But if you 552 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,279 look back at their quotes back at the heyday, at 553 00:30:27,279 --> 00:30:29,440 the height of their power, that is not what they 554 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,759 were talking about. So again I apologize. I know it's 555 00:30:31,799 --> 00:30:35,039 not very satisfying to hear sort of vague notions, but 556 00:30:36,119 --> 00:30:40,079 this effort was so monumental and so far reaching it's 557 00:30:40,119 --> 00:30:42,799 hard to truly put a number because you have to 558 00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:45,359 figure out what would have happened had they not engaged 559 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,240 in this kind of cartel like activity. And so unfortunately, 560 00:30:50,319 --> 00:30:52,920 both shareholders and consumers are like are going to be 561 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,400 paying a price for these activity even if they ended today, 562 00:30:55,519 --> 00:30:58,240 which they haven't. Black Rock, for example, is still engaging 563 00:30:58,359 --> 00:31:02,119 in all kinds of radical extremist behavior in corporate America. 564 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,200 But even if they ended today, they we would still 565 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,359 feel the effects of the underinvestment in a lot of 566 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,359 these disfavored industries, from ag to mining to fossil fuels 567 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:12,680 for a very long time, and. 568 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:13,519 Speaker 2: I will I will not. 569 00:31:13,599 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 3: There are some to go back to your previous question, 570 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,839 there are some anecdotes I can mention in terms of 571 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,559 give people a sense of magnitude. I mean, most people 572 00:31:20,599 --> 00:31:22,839 are going to know about the Budweiser example, where they 573 00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:25,519 fell from the America's number one beer to I think, 574 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,960 you know, two, or third or maybe fourth place. I 575 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,119 think they've wobbled around a little bit since then, but 576 00:31:30,119 --> 00:31:32,160 they haven't come back to the top. And I know 577 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,599 that target after the huge controversy over having the quote 578 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:41,079 unquote tuck bathing suits for kids, pushing transgender ideology with 579 00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:43,279 their products right in the front of the stores, saw 580 00:31:43,559 --> 00:31:46,400 massive declines. I think I heard as high as thirty 581 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,920 percent in some areas of the country in foot traffic 582 00:31:51,079 --> 00:31:55,000 and sales. And you've seen that company try to course correct. 583 00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:58,799 They've completely eliminated their DEI program. From what I understand 584 00:31:58,799 --> 00:32:01,759 at least publicly, that's what they're stating, and they've changed 585 00:32:01,799 --> 00:32:05,359 a lot of their marketing materials. I don't think they 586 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,480 engage in pride month really at all throughout most of 587 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:08,880 the country. 588 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,599 Speaker 2: There might be some areas that are. 589 00:32:10,519 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 3: Particular, particularly woke geographically, where they still do in a 590 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,599 small way, but you don't see them pushing this absolute 591 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,359 nonsense into all of all of America, where it's incredibly 592 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,279 offensive and obnoxious. So that's a company that saw a 593 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,759 huge decline in sales over a prolonged period of time 594 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,920 and is working to try and course. 595 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:30,839 Speaker 2: Correct, which is laudable. 596 00:32:30,839 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 3: I mean, obviously they should have done it in the 597 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,279 first place, but we also have to allow people to 598 00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:36,880 come back and do what they should have been doing 599 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,039 and say that's that's good. Now, we need every now 600 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:40,839 now we need one all of your colleagues to do 601 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,720 it in corporate America as well. So I think target well, 602 00:32:43,799 --> 00:32:46,880 not Perfect, is a model for a company that that 603 00:32:47,039 --> 00:32:48,319 is trying to fix itself. 604 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, Major League Baseball immediately comes to mind. And what 605 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,720 we have seen from not just Major League Baseball, certainly 606 00:32:56,759 --> 00:33:02,440 the NBA, the nfls to have gotten some lessons, some 607 00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:06,519 very important lessons from consumers, from viewers over the years. 608 00:33:06,599 --> 00:33:10,440 But you know, it's like we said, what this conversation 609 00:33:10,599 --> 00:33:15,200 is all about. It's a lot of claims, a lot 610 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:22,880 of public facing, kinds of pronounced changes, but plenty of 611 00:33:23,039 --> 00:33:27,599 these corporate players have just taken their stuff underground. We've 612 00:33:27,599 --> 00:33:31,599 certainly seen that at universities and another area that I'm 613 00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:34,400 sure you're tracking as well, and we've written a lot 614 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,799 of stories about this at the federalists, but the American 615 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,720 Bar Association and state bars I know recently writing a 616 00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:45,599 piece about the Wisconsin State Bar Association and there are 617 00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:51,119 others like it that settled a lawsuit at the federal 618 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:57,160 level because the document showed that they were discriminating in 619 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,200 their programs, particularly in their training. But in many ways, 620 00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:08,559 the American Bar Association and legal groups legal coalitions like 621 00:34:08,599 --> 00:34:12,079 it have been leading this and have supplied attorneys to 622 00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:14,920 fight for the DEI movement and continue to do so 623 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:15,920 in America today. 624 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,280 Speaker 3: Yes, I'm glad you brought that up, because this is 625 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,079 an area that, while a little disheartening once you realize 626 00:34:23,119 --> 00:34:27,159 how deep the rabbit hole goes, is pretty enlightening. Because 627 00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:31,000 you had a lot of corporate attorneys and corporate law 628 00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:36,679 firms basically telling companies, Especially before the Harvard and Missions ruling, 629 00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:39,039 where it made it clear that racial discrimination of any 630 00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:45,320 kind was not allowable in higher add admissions, you had 631 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,719 a lot of corporate attorneys telling corporations that it was 632 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,880 okay to engage in discrimination as long as it was 633 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,880 to benefit some historically underprivileged group. And so the legal 634 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,079 community bears a huge burden for how this happened and 635 00:35:00,559 --> 00:35:03,599 to this day continues to fight for it, which is 636 00:35:03,639 --> 00:35:07,199 sort of odd because it was the lawyers who fought 637 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,159 so hard to get so much of the civil rights 638 00:35:09,679 --> 00:35:13,440 agenda passed in the sixties, arguing the opposite direction, that 639 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,159 people should be treated purely based on merit or skills 640 00:35:17,199 --> 00:35:19,920 or comprehension or whatever the relevant metric is you're testing 641 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,840 for at the time, not based on race or sex 642 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,079 or identity groupings. And so you're right. One of the 643 00:35:28,079 --> 00:35:31,119 things that's really startling is, you know, a lot of 644 00:35:31,159 --> 00:35:34,119 states have been banning DEI activities in their higher ed 645 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,519 universities and basically saying that all this stuff is illegal, 646 00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:41,480 can't do anymore, can't you use any money for it. 647 00:35:42,519 --> 00:35:45,000 But a lot of them also have old statutes on 648 00:35:45,039 --> 00:35:48,519 the books that say, you know, notwithstanding anything we've told 649 00:35:48,559 --> 00:35:51,920 you higher ed university system, you can do whatever you 650 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,519 need to do in order to maintain your accreditation, because 651 00:35:55,559 --> 00:35:57,800 they didn't want them accidentally getting a foul of their 652 00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,960 creditors because of some minute. 653 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:01,679 Speaker 2: You know, hey, we've got. 654 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,119 Speaker 3: Code that says your library can only be you know, 655 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,280 twenty feet high, and the creditor says it needs to 656 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:06,800 be twenty. 657 00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 2: Five feet high. I'm just making up nonsense, but you 658 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:09,320 get the idea. 659 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,159 Speaker 3: They didn't want them to get hung up on a 660 00:36:11,159 --> 00:36:14,719 technicality because maintaining accreditation for university is so important. 661 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 2: What has happened since those bands. 662 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,159 Speaker 3: Have been put in place, though, is university administrators from 663 00:36:20,159 --> 00:36:22,480 across the country who want to continue to engage in 664 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:28,239 racial discrimination and obnoxious wokery that's been banned. Is they've 665 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,280 run to the accreditors and said, please, please, please start 666 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,360 requiring the very things that these states have banned. And 667 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,320 I'll give you a concrete example. The American Bar Association 668 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,159 two to three years ago announced that moving forward to 669 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,719 maintain accreditation with them, and they are the only they 670 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,400 have a total monopoly on law school accreditation. To maintain 671 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,639 accreditation with them. They were going to start requiring racial 672 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,199 bias training be provided to every law student in the country, 673 00:36:54,599 --> 00:36:57,639 and this is something that has been completely debunked scientifically. 674 00:36:57,679 --> 00:37:01,679 It does nothing but actually make racial stereotyping worse. People 675 00:37:01,679 --> 00:37:04,840 who go through implicit racial bias training report higher levels 676 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,960 of stereotyping, stereotyping views of of other races. And yet 677 00:37:10,199 --> 00:37:12,960 this is something that the woke people are obsessed with. 678 00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:15,480 It's a bit of a cottage industry for them, and 679 00:37:15,519 --> 00:37:18,519 they run to the creditors, run to the one increditor particular, 680 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,960 a BA, and required it. And so it really, frankly 681 00:37:23,039 --> 00:37:25,960 this in the same way that COVID undermined faith in 682 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,519 the entire public health system and the medical system in general. 683 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,400 I think that as this comes out, how much of 684 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,000 this was done by lawyers who knew that this stuff 685 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,400 violated federal law, violated people's civil rights. I think you 686 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,079 will have a similar effect on legal industry. And that's 687 00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:42,760 sad to say. I am a lawyer and we didn't 688 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:43,679 have a lot of room. 689 00:37:43,559 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 2: To work with. 690 00:37:44,119 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 3: To be been with, we're not exactly high on most 691 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,719 people's lists in terms of trusted industries. And yet, uh, 692 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,440 you know, lawyers have led the way in pushing a 693 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,000 lot of this incredibly obnoxious illegal activity. 694 00:37:56,199 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: Isn't at the core of all of this, this DEI movement, 695 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:05,519 ESG movement, you know, the gen reflecting at the altar 696 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:11,239 of the LGBTQ and whatever letter and marks they're adding 697 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,800 to this on a daily basis. Isn't this really at 698 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:19,880 its core all about arrogance and elitism? These I just 699 00:38:20,039 --> 00:38:23,599 see over the course of the last few decades in 700 00:38:23,599 --> 00:38:28,440 this country, over the last generation, certainly and probably more, 701 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:36,880 that these folks really believed that Americans in general are 702 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,480 just too stupid to understand and they had to be 703 00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:43,159 the leaders on this front. 704 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 3: What do you think, well, I mean, I certainly think 705 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,360 that underlying the entire worldview of wokeness is that as 706 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,760 a deep disdain for the average American and especially the 707 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,000 middle class American and especially the middle America American. So 708 00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:00,440 you know, people who don't live is part of the 709 00:39:00,559 --> 00:39:03,760 ACCELA corridor from DC to New York, or don't live 710 00:39:04,119 --> 00:39:07,760 in California or LA in particular. There is there is 711 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,280 clearly a deep seated resentment that motivates a good portion 712 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,800 of this. In addition to that, I think that the ESG. 713 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,039 Let me give a little bit of a white pill 714 00:39:18,079 --> 00:39:21,639 here of an optimistic note. The reason that they decided 715 00:39:21,679 --> 00:39:26,280 to construct this ESG framework was because much of their 716 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,440 agenda was rejected at the ballot. 717 00:39:28,119 --> 00:39:30,360 Speaker 2: Box over and over and over, both at the state 718 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:31,400 and the federal level. 719 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 3: Sure, and so they basically this es SHE was their 720 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:41,480 plan B to force this through financial basically leveraging the 721 00:39:41,519 --> 00:39:44,239 market share of major financial players, whether that be in 722 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,880 the asset manager's market or the banking industry or the 723 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,800 large insurers. Basically to restrict the access to capital and 724 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,880 to leverage assets that asset managers held as stewards, not 725 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,519 as owners, but as stewarts, to push an agenda that 726 00:39:58,559 --> 00:40:02,800 Americans consistent rejected. And so while that is nefarious and 727 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,800 evil and has had horrible effects on this country, it 728 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,239 is somewhat heartening that it's because we rejected it democratically 729 00:40:11,679 --> 00:40:14,760 that they had to resort to this plan B. And 730 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,079 so I think that also underlines the ESG framework is 731 00:40:18,119 --> 00:40:20,440 the idea that listen, people are never going to accept 732 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,880 this politically. We're just going to have to force it 733 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,440 down their throats. And that isn't to say that that 734 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:27,960 means they will lose. I mean, we have to push 735 00:40:28,039 --> 00:40:30,880 back on ESG. It was a smart move on their part, 736 00:40:31,199 --> 00:40:35,360 but it wasn't a situation where they won right out 737 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,280 of the gate. They actually lost right out of the gate. 738 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,280 And this was their this was their countermove, and I 739 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,880 think it's telling. The chronology of events really plays this out. 740 00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:47,639 Even really where ESG got supercharged was in about the 741 00:40:47,679 --> 00:40:50,719 midpoint of the first Trump administration. 742 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:52,280 Speaker 2: And if it was. 743 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:57,559 Speaker 3: Just corporations just doing whichever way the wind was blowing politically, 744 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,960 what you'd expect is actually corporates being more conservative during 745 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,840 that period of time. But where Larry Fink and you know, 746 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,039 Glasgow Financial Ance FORER at zero was really getting founded 747 00:41:09,079 --> 00:41:12,800 and going was during a period of time which Trump 748 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:14,239 was in the White House. So I think it really 749 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,159 speaks to that this is there, This is the real motivation, 750 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,760 this is their real intent. This is not something they're 751 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,920 necessarily being forced to do, but they want to do it. 752 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:24,239 They want to push this, and so we're going to 753 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,960 have to you know, create disincentive shops, so to speak, 754 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,239 for that kind of active. 755 00:41:30,039 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 1: So final question for you, where does it suggest we're 756 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:38,039 going from here? Will Americans continue to reject this, and 757 00:41:38,119 --> 00:41:41,440 they may. I mean a lot of voting, of course 758 00:41:41,519 --> 00:41:45,440 in this country takes place at the register. We know that, 759 00:41:45,519 --> 00:41:49,159 not just the ballot box. But will they grow tired 760 00:41:49,559 --> 00:41:54,719 of having to fight because the left never stops fighting? 761 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:55,599 We know that. 762 00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a great question. And one of 763 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:03,960 my great fears in the victory of Trump in the 764 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,280 election is that it would lead to people becoming complacent 765 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,679 and believing that just having the White House was enough 766 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,559 to put this to bed. As I mentioned before, so 767 00:42:13,679 --> 00:42:15,679 much of this was put in place during the first 768 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,159 Trump administration. So if just having a Republican in the 769 00:42:18,199 --> 00:42:20,760 White House kept this from happening, it wouldn't have happened 770 00:42:21,199 --> 00:42:24,559 and we wouldn't be here today. We have to, like 771 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,920 just like I mentioned, with the Trump administration, using a 772 00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:31,800 whole house approach to push back against the transgender ideology, 773 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:37,360 especially as it pertains to mutilating and abusing minors. Conservatives 774 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,639 of every stripe across the entire country have to have 775 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,239 a whole house approach in our own lives and pushing 776 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,679 back into this, And I know that's not our natural inclination. 777 00:42:48,039 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 2: We're the group that likes to be left alone. 778 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,800 Speaker 3: That were the group that likes to not meddle in 779 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,320 other people's affairs, But unfortunately they are in the business 780 00:42:56,119 --> 00:42:59,280 of meddling. And if we do not prevent that from happening, 781 00:42:59,679 --> 00:43:01,519 we will be right back under their boot. We will 782 00:43:01,519 --> 00:43:04,800 be right back under the debanking and the cancelation and 783 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:05,719 the constant. 784 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 2: Attacks on our way of life. 785 00:43:07,159 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 3: We have to not only push back, but we have 786 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:10,840 to push back in such a way that we create 787 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,360 structures in the future that would prevent this from ever 788 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,360 happening again. Some of that is legal, like you know, 789 00:43:16,559 --> 00:43:19,760 lawsuits coming from the Department of Justice civil rights, or 790 00:43:20,039 --> 00:43:23,480 more importantly, making sure your state attorney general is being 791 00:43:23,599 --> 00:43:27,639 encouraged and resourced to enforce civil rights at the state level. 792 00:43:27,679 --> 00:43:30,599 That's a big deal. Making sure that there is dual 793 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,920 enforcement of civil rights against discrimination is probably one of 794 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:37,880 the biggest structures we could put into place to make 795 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,079 sure that, no matter if there's a Democrat or a 796 00:43:40,119 --> 00:43:42,360 Republican in the White House, this kind of stuff doesn't 797 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,760 re emerge. But also being mindful consumers and pushing back 798 00:43:47,039 --> 00:43:49,480 using our wallet, which we were inclined to do as 799 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,159 conservatives because we understand that bottom lines matter. But also, 800 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:53,480 and this is the part we kind of have to 801 00:43:53,639 --> 00:43:55,920 get outside of our comfort zone more often about is 802 00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,159 using our voice, sending emails, speaking to company managers when 803 00:44:00,199 --> 00:44:02,199 we go into a store and saying, listen, I like 804 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:03,920 to shop at Home Depot, but I don't like that 805 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,239 you have a DEI program. I like to shop at Starbucks, 806 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,679 but I don't like you. Guys are constantly, you know, 807 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,840 virtue signaling around race. So that kind of stuff I 808 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,280 can tell you does trickle up. You might think I'm 809 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,320 just one person. You know, I'm talking to a store 810 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,559 manager who cares. No one's ever going to listen to 811 00:44:19,599 --> 00:44:23,800 me in mass. When it's done at scale, that stuff, absolutely, 812 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,519 I can say, with metaphysical certainty, reaches the upper echelons 813 00:44:27,559 --> 00:44:29,800 of corporate America and they do hear you. They may 814 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,480 not agree with you, they may not like it, okay, 815 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,039 but they will change their behaviors. We've seen it with 816 00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:37,079 some of the big corporations we talked about before, and 817 00:44:37,079 --> 00:44:38,440 we will see it in the future as long as 818 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:39,119 we stay engaged. 819 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,519 Speaker 1: Really is a battle for the soul of America on 820 00:44:42,559 --> 00:44:47,000 a multi front battlefield. Thanks to my guest today, Will Hilt, 821 00:44:47,079 --> 00:44:52,480 executive director of Consumers Research, America's oldest consumer protection agency. 822 00:44:53,039 --> 00:44:55,719 You've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. 823 00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:00,440 I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist Assume 824 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,480 with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom and anxious 825 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:04,960 for the fray. 826 00:45:11,679 --> 00:45:17,280 Speaker 4: I heard the fame, voice, the reason, and then it 827 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:22,559 faded away.