WEBVTT 1 00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:18.320 Coming to you from the dining room table at East 2 00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:23.359 Barbary Lane. Welcome to another special episode of Full Circle 3 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:27.960 the Podcast. I am your host, Charles Tyson Jr. Martha 4 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:30.719 is off doing fabulous Martha things at the moment and 5 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:33.159 can't join us, but she sends our love. But that 6 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:37.000 is okay because I am sitting here with a wonderful guest. 7 00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:38.399 He is an. 8 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:42.920 Author of a fabulous and thrilling new book called The 9 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:47.359 Dead of Summer, and I am very excited to talk 10 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:51.840 to him about it and its themes and all the 11 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:56.399 wonderful things contained within the brightly colored covers. Ryan Lesala 12 00:00:56.600 --> 00:00:58.640 is in the house. Hi, Ryan, how are you. 13 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:01.479 I'm so good good. Thank you for having me. 14 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:09.760 Thank you for being had by me. So this is 15 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:15.480 a great book. I inhaled it pretty quickly, and so 16 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:20.120 it was pitched to me as a queer young adult 17 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:25.439 horror novel. For one thing, please explain to me, like 18 00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:29.239 what what do you think defines a young adult novel? 19 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:33.120 So you could take this from a few different angles, 20 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:36.680 from like the industrial angle. It's a marketing category. So 21 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:41.959 it's books that publishers publish for teenagers, right, basically for 22 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:46.920 high schoolers and market to high schoolers. But like in reality, 23 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:50.599 which is where I read and write from, everybody reads 24 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:54.680 YA stories. Like the whole world is obsessed with books 25 00:01:54.680 --> 00:02:00.400 about teenagers doing heroic and difficult things, and so yeah, 26 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:04.079 YA is sort of like it tells itself that it's 27 00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:07.959 going to be sold to like teenagers. But the fact 28 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:11.159 of the matter is is that why stories just center 29 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:16.960 teen experiences and teen characters. But many, many people older 30 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:18.599 and younger read those stories. 31 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:22.439 Okay, good, that makes sense because I'm reading it because 32 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:25.120 you know, I think of why novels I think of 33 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:29.199 like that you know, boy Wizard series that I'm not 34 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:36.479 going name drop, which feels pretty like childish, you know, 35 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:38.919 as much as I may or may not have enjoyed it, 36 00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:44.479 And this definitely is not that. It's a lot of 37 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:48.280 fun actually, So tell us a little bit about what 38 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:50.400 The Dead of Summer is about. 39 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:55.000 Yeah, absolutely, So. If anyone's familiar with my work, I 40 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:59.319 focus on horror stories, but within the genre of horror 41 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:01.000 you can do a lot of different things, so none 42 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:03.800 of my stories are too too similar. This is definitely 43 00:03:03.879 --> 00:03:06.960 sort of my most ambitious and biggest story. It's the 44 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:10.639 first of two books. The second one's coming out next year. 45 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:13.199 I just turned it in. So this one ends on 46 00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:16.000 a very big clipphanger. I've been getting a lot of 47 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:18.360 messages about but rest assured that the rest of the 48 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:21.400 story is is on its way. But in this story, 49 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:25.360 you're gonna encounter the Island of Anchors Mercy, which is 50 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:28.800 it's a fictional place, but it's this beautiful island off 51 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.680 the coast of Maine, famous for its shellfish and its beaches, 52 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:33.719 and it's like a summer destination for a lot of 53 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:38.879 queer people. There's like a vibrant drag community there, but 54 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:43.879 it's hiding a very insidious secret. And Ali, the main character, 55 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:46.439 is a teenager determined to figure out what that secret 56 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:48.759 is because all of his life as a resident on 57 00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:52.199 this island, he has been noticing patterns of secrecy and 58 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:56.159 shame and sickness, and now his mom is sick and 59 00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:58.199 he wants to figure out what exactly is sort of 60 00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:01.520 causing this, like what aren't they the adults telling everybody. 61 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:04.479 But before he can really get too far in his investigation, 62 00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:07.599 there's this storm on the busiest weekend of the summer, 63 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:12.840 and up from the ocean washes basically answers, but they 64 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:16.480 take the form of this kind of radiant, supernatural organism 65 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:19.720 that begins to spread itself through the community. And now 66 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:21.399 it's up to Ali to figure out how all of 67 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:23.680 these things are connected while trying to kind of stop 68 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:27.720 it from escaping onto the mainland. And so that's one 69 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:30.399 side of the story. The other is a scientific researcher 70 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:35.000 who is three weeks in the future writing about their 71 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:39.240 investigation into Ali's story because they think somewhere in Ali's 72 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:42.519 fight to survive is the solution to potentially saving the 73 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:44.879 rest of the world from a similar fate. So it's 74 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:47.279 kind of unclear what happens to Ali. That's kind of 75 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.160 the big point of the book. But yeah, that's that's 76 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:50.759 the gist of it. 77 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:53.879 Yeah, that is in a nuts nutshell the storm comes 78 00:04:53.879 --> 00:04:55.399 and then wackiness. 79 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:57.720 Ensues, very wacky. 80 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:03.759 Yeah, And I love I love the themes of you know, 81 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:11.160 how a secret can basically devour you know, an individual, 82 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:16.759 a community, a location, even which when you tie it 83 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.639 into the queerness of the story, you know has layers. 84 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:27.000 I appreciated that. I also appreciated because the location of 85 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:31.519 the story is like this, this gay hub, this like 86 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:35.959 that's detached from from everyone else because it's an island. 87 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:40.399 The queerness can exist on its own without having to 88 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:44.160 you know, be held up in like look queer people. 89 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:47.800 It can just exist as part of the story. I 90 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:52.879 definitely appreciated that, you know, because so many times you 91 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:55.319 read a story and it's like, hey, folks, look at me, 92 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:56.759 I'm writing a queer book. 93 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:01.000 Truly, and like, I mean, it's interesting because as like 94 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:05.319 a queer creator, I feel like I'm consistently caught in 95 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:08.480 the tension of wanting to like uphold and put the 96 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:12.519 neon sign on like the queerness of something, while there's 97 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:16.199 this like just as important tension also asking it to 98 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:20.279 be commonplace and totally banal, right and like almost expected. 99 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:23.279 And so I kind of was hoping to achieve both 100 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:25.480 with a story like this, where like from Ali's point 101 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:28.000 of view, he was born and raised on this island 102 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:31.199 where it's really normative to have queer people, right, Like 103 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:34.639 his piano tutor is this drag queen who also is 104 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:37.199 a mayor, who also is the person who does like 105 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:40.160 the story time at the local library, like, which is 106 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.199 to me a kind of fairly queer ecology where everyone 107 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:46.439 has like nine different jobs and we're kind of all 108 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:49.519 helping each other put on a big show for one another, 109 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:52.439 and that's based in reality, right Like, there are places 110 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:55.360 that are like this, and queer communities tend to kind 111 00:06:55.399 --> 00:07:00.959 of create these sanctuaries, even amongst larger, larger ecologies, like 112 00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:06.399 this particular island is based on Provincetown, Massachusetts, where you'll 113 00:07:06.439 --> 00:07:10.839 find almost like an exact replica of this particular story 114 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:15.399 or this particular setting. I should say at the same time. 115 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:17.560 Yeah, I haven't been yet. 116 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:20.920 They don't worry. Yeah you should go. It's it's still there. 117 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:23.480 Don't worry. But Province Sound has great history. It's been 118 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:26.560 there for like hundreds of years. He's always been kind 119 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:31.120 of this like artistic commune and sanctuary. But at the 120 00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:34.720 same time, places like this, even though from like the 121 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:38.759 inside they are sanctuaries where it's very normative, they can't 122 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:42.519 escape being embedded in a world that requires queer people 123 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.439 to create sanctuaries. So they're always in dialogue with the 124 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:48.199 tension that sort of asks us to kind of enclose 125 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:52.160 ourselves into these these communities. And so that's also what 126 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:56.160 the story is about, right Like, the second things start 127 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.600 to go awry on this island of Banker's Mercy. In 128 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:02.399 the book, there's a quarantine imposed upon the island to 129 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:05.560 kind of keep things locked down. But like even the 130 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:08.600 act of kind of locking all these people into their suffering, 131 00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:10.879 so they kind of have to deal with themselves mimics 132 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:14.759 in many ways, how like institutions often leave in abandoned, 133 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:17.879 marginalized communities to kind of deal with their problems themselves 134 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:20.079 when they don't sort of spread into the rest of 135 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:21.879 the world because it's seen as like a kind of 136 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:25.000 societal contamination. And so the story kind of has both, 137 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:28.680 where the actual setting is really very normative, but many 138 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:32.759 of the strains that play out in this particular book 139 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:36.759 absolutely arise from kind of the reality of communities and 140 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:37.919 the sanctuaries that they create. 141 00:08:38.919 --> 00:08:42.080 Yeah, and I love how, like you mentioned, one of 142 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:49.080 the main characters is, besides being a very well respected 143 00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:51.919 member of the community, is also a drag reformer, And 144 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:57.879 I love that. I love that, you know, because they're 145 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:00.720 so respected, they can he can just so you know, 146 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:02.399 we need to do X, Y and Z, and everyone 147 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:06.000 goes yes, sir, you know, and just steps into action. 148 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:10.159 I love that. I also love the idea of, you know, 149 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:13.840 when shit goes down yes, these are drag queens, but 150 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:18.000 they are also people who have like varying skill sets, 151 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:21.080 and so those skill sets get to be put into 152 00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:25.279 practical use. That made me seem like, yes, that's right, 153 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:26.679 you would be able to do that, wouldn't you. 154 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:31.480 Well, it's true. I oftentimes people are like, well, you know, 155 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:33.840 how come you by queer horror? Right, That's a question 156 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:36.360 that I get all the time. And I'm lucky enough 157 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:38.360 to kind of have a career where I've gotten to 158 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:40.879 center characters like me and the people that I know. 159 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:43.600 But it does like the question of like what am 160 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:46.919 I doing sort of putting all of the my my 161 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:52.200 beloved people in versions of myself through like horrific scenarios. 162 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:55.320 And the answer is really simple. I just don't think 163 00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:59.240 straight people could cut it in certain scenarios because they 164 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:03.360 don't have it takes. You would need certain skill sets 165 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:05.679 to survive my books. And that's why, like, of course 166 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:08.720 there are straight people in these scenarios, right, But the 167 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:13.080 main characters they are often the people that have resilience 168 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:17.639 and adaptability and diversity and elasticity, and they also care 169 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:19.840 about their community and they sort of understand that like 170 00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:23.600 surviving alone renders you very vulnerable in a crisis, but 171 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:26.080 figuring out how to survive together, which is a huge 172 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:29.879 theme of this book. Very very very queer philosophy, very 173 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:35.279 sort of marginalized philosophy, And that's the result of my 174 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:38.840 own lived experiences. But I kind of I apologetically tell 175 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:40.919 people that, yeah, you know, I just don't think a 176 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:43.600 straight person has like the skill set or the or 177 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:46.360 the bandwidth or the endurance to kind of make it 178 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:49.000 through some of the stories, because they are horror at 179 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:49.879 the end of it, right. 180 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:53.559 I've said that many times. It's like, take your average 181 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:57.840 run of the mill sis head and if they had 182 00:10:57.879 --> 00:11:00.639 to be any one of us for twenty minutes, they'd 183 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:02.360 be rocking back and forth in the corner. 184 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:06.480 Yes, oh my gosh. Yeah. The way that I sometimes 185 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:10.399 put this too, is that, like, you know, if people 186 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:12.320 ask me, like what draws me to horror sometimes, and 187 00:11:12.679 --> 00:11:15.600 the answer is similar to this, where I'll sort of 188 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:17.960 tell them that, like, well, yeah, I had a really 189 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:20.759 beautiful childhood, right, Like, I had a really supportive family, 190 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.360 and I was lucky in many many ways, and you know, 191 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:26.519 I come from like a privileged background in many ways 192 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.120 and underprivileged in others. But if I had to write 193 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:33.200 the story of my childhood, my adolescence, and my like 194 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:36.879 teenage years down, I would have to shelve it in horror, 195 00:11:36.919 --> 00:11:40.679 because despite the humor and the love and the compassion 196 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:44.279 that I had the benefit of, the narrative of my 197 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:47.759 life was dominated by knowing that I was vulnerable and 198 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:50.759 that any moment something could hurt me, something could come 199 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:53.960 out of the blue, someone could turn on me. Society 200 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:57.360 could suddenly perceive me as a monster, and I would 201 00:11:57.399 --> 00:11:58.879 have no way of knowing, and I would have to 202 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:01.360 just kind of deal with it and sort of figure 203 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:03.799 out a way out in the moment. And those are 204 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:06.080 those are that's like the major tenet of horror, right, 205 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:09.200 Like the person sort of consents that there's an oncoming 206 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:13.159 monstrosity but can't necessarily identify where until it's chasing them, 207 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:15.559 like directly behind their back, trying to stab them. And 208 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:19.799 so many queer people, I feel like, resonate with that 209 00:12:19.879 --> 00:12:21.960 where they kind of have to hold those two things 210 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:24.639 hand in hand, right, like the joy and the fear 211 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:29.279 of a lived experience. And I think that's that's why 212 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:32.200 I'm drawn to scary stories that also have like a 213 00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:34.120 lot of humor and heart in them because it just 214 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:35.759 feels much more real to me. 215 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:39.519 Yeah, I was thinking about that. It's like, that's very true. 216 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:42.879 Not only are the their threats out there at any 217 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:44.720 given time, but they're looking for you. 218 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:49.399 They're looking for you, like it's you know, in my 219 00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:51.480 books that leads the characters have a chance to kind 220 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:54.120 of face off with the monsters. Right, And I feel 221 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:56.919 like so many so many people today like consense like 222 00:12:57.399 --> 00:13:03.399 this encroaching, you know, retraction of society. Right. That doesn't 223 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:06.279 necessarily have a form, it doesn't have like a body, right, 224 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:08.240 it's just something that we can sort of feel happening, 225 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:11.240 which is I think why we turn to horror stories 226 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:13.559 where the monster actually has a form that we can 227 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:16.240 face and that we can sort of either escape from, 228 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:19.759 or defend ourselves against, or fight or even kill. Right, Like, 229 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:22.360 I think that's kind of why we like scary stories. 230 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.559 But it's not surprising to me that, like, you know, 231 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:30.120 now as the world has become much scarier, there's a 232 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:33.440 there's this huge influx of readers looking for a way 233 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:37.840 to kind of deal with their feelings and read about them. Right. 234 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:41.200 Yeah, if you you can name the monster, it makes 235 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:42.240 it a little less scary. 236 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:43.720 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 237 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:49.320 I am a huge horror fan, so I definitely definitely 238 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:54.000 can understand what you're saying. And Martha is actively a 239 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:58.080 non horror fan, Like, yeah, she will straight up be likeugh, 240 00:13:58.080 --> 00:13:59.399 not my genre, get away from me. 241 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:03.120 People always say that, and then a lot of the 242 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:05.120 people that I talked to at like signings will be like, 243 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:07.799 you know, I don't like horror. I'm not a horror person. 244 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:10.440 Like they've decided this about themselves yet, like they're in there, 245 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:12.559 like in front of me holding my book being like, 246 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:14.840 but I loved this, and I kind of let it 247 00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:17.559 go because I think people find their way through what 248 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:21.480 they want as they need to. But it does always 249 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:23.320 amuse me that people sort of decide that they don't 250 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:25.200 like horror until they sort of find the one spooky 251 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:27.919 thing that they really like, and then that's the exception. 252 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:32.840 Yeah, well, I always like when someone says they don't 253 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:36.000 like horror, I try to respect that and not like 254 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:39.440 force them to try. Except there's been a couple of 255 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:43.279 times when I accidentally had Martha look at horror things, 256 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:48.120 like things that I didn't think were horror, Like I'm like, oh, 257 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:50.759 this is fine, and then it got to the part 258 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:53.240 and then she was mad at me for like two weeks. 259 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:56.799 Can't be helped. 260 00:14:57.159 --> 00:15:02.200 Well ten Cloverfield Lane was was a good example of that. 261 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:04.879 That is absolutely clearly horror. 262 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:11.360 But see the first like eighty nine percent of it 263 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:15.320 is like this character study of these people in the situation. 264 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:17.840 In a bunker. Yeah, that's what you're talking. 265 00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:21.559 It's interesting. The performances are like dynamic and layered, and 266 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:24.000 it's just like, but the last ten minutes is what 267 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:24.399 did it? 268 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:31.240 I You know, I can really stoop down to see 269 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:34.039 how you've seen seen it through with like your logic 270 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:36.639 is cravy, But I get what you're saying because I 271 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:39.320 agree that, like the reason that I love that movie 272 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:42.840 is exactly what you're saying. But that is firmly in 273 00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:45.159 the in the I mean, especially because it's related to 274 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:47.679 like Cloverfield, which is right like a great, great one 275 00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:49.519 of my favorite like ours, so same. 276 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:53.639 Well And Okay, so that ties us into into your 277 00:15:53.720 --> 00:16:00.000 book because I noticed there were several themes hord themes 278 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:04.399 in the book that I'm not going to say you 279 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.600 outright reference, but you definitely nodded towards and I appreciated that, 280 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:14.440 Like the literary version of the found footage film. You know, 281 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:19.960 there's sections of the book that are told through journals 282 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:23.320 and letters, and that also gave me a little bit 283 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:27.759 of like World War Z, you know, I appreciated that. 284 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:33.600 One thing I definitely appreciated was that there were no 285 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:38.480 none of the main characters like everyone was smart. 286 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:45.159 Yeah, oh gosh, I hope so I I I wanted 287 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:47.679 the three main characters. There's three kids sort of at 288 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:49.720 the heart of the story. There's Ali who I mentioned, 289 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:52.799 and like fashion A Lisa, But I wanted them to 290 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:55.039 have like you know, they're best friends, so they've sort 291 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:56.879 of grown up on this island together. But I did 292 00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:59.639 want them to each have something really specific that they 293 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:02.159 get to go tribute. But they also have different points 294 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:04.759 of view into like kind of how to solve problems, 295 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:07.960 which causes a lot of tension. But I didn't want 296 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:12.400 like oftentimes Ya, especially with like teen casts, gets knocked 297 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:17.759 for being like mostly angst and mostly miscommunications and like 298 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:21.079 problems that adults like to claim that they no longer 299 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:24.519 that they've grown out of, which is debatable but right. 300 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:28.680 But in my stories, I often like to find a 301 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:31.440 way to test characters who are whip smart, who are 302 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:35.319 really logical and who are like highly emotionally intelligent, and 303 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:38.000 they're still like fighting for their lives. Like that to 304 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:41.799 me makes something feel a lot tenser, because you know, 305 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.359 if you're reading this, you're not thinking, oh, I would 306 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:46.240 never do this. You're thinking, well, it's probably exactly what 307 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:48.599 I would do and it's still going wrong. Like that's 308 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:49.720 kind of a better story to me. 309 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:53.519 Well, yeah, and the ones that aren't that smart or 310 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:55.960 aren't that swift, those are the ones that get got so. 311 00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:00.519 Right, and people do get got kind of consistently the books. 312 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:02.839 So don't fall in love with anyone for too long. 313 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:09.119 Right, Yeah, that was the other thing. You weren't afraid 314 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:14.200 to like set us up to enjoy a character and 315 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:17.319 then take them from no. 316 00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:21.680 I got, well, thank you, thank you, But I got 317 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:24.920 like someone posted like a review recently, and this won't 318 00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:26.880 have any spoilers in it. Don't worry if you're a 319 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:28.319 thinking about reading the book out there, but. 320 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:31.279 I'm not spoil. 321 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:35.039 They mentioned, like, you know a character that doesn't make 322 00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:38.559 it to the end, and how like it felt pointless 323 00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:40.559 that this person sort of was there one second and 324 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:43.680 then gone another one of the main characters, but I 325 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:45.839 was like thinking to myself, I was like, well, yeah, 326 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:47.559 but that was kind of the point for me because 327 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:50.680 in a crisis or in a disaster, like not every 328 00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:55.400 demise has like symbolic integrity, right, Like sometimes people die 329 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.799 well before you know, they sort of get to pressed 330 00:18:57.880 --> 00:18:59.759 in their use for like a narrative, and that's kind 331 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:01.240 of that's it's kind of the horror too, write like 332 00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:04.559 sometimes deaf is really swift and we don't see it 333 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:07.599 coming and it's not supposed to happen, but that's part 334 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:10.720 of what makes something horrific. So it's interesting sometimes people 335 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:13.039 have kind of a negative reaction to that, whereas I 336 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:15.880 feel like that's kind of the point at least sometimes. 337 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:19.720 But yeah, I won't I won't say more, right. 338 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:21.599 That's the thing. It's like, it's so much that I 339 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:23.359 want to ask you, but it's like I don't want 340 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:25.039 to spoil anything. 341 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:29.200 Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's all right. I know a 342 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:30.559 lot of times my books are kind of hard to 343 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:34.039 describe some people. The recommendation is always like I can't 344 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:35.759 tell you anything about this, just like sit down and 345 00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:38.279 read it, which makes it very hard to like recommend 346 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.000 to the people because I'm like, yeah, there's a lot 347 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:43.960 of suspense. I can't give you any detail, but I 348 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:46.880 can't tell you, like, the cover's really pretty and a 349 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:49.799 lot of people have sent me dms of them crying, 350 00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:52.599 So if that's something you would love to do, like, 351 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:55.880 go for it. But but yeah, that's kind of the 352 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:58.279 it's like the catch shorty too of trying to promote 353 00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.480 like a horror novel. 354 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.079 The cover is really pretty and it kind of like 355 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:09.039 gives you a clue of what's to come, but you know, 356 00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:11.839 you don't realize it until you're in it, and then 357 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:13.799 you're like, oh, then you find yourself going back to 358 00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:15.559 the cover and looking at it as a reference for 359 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:18.599 what you're imagining. Is that okay to say? 360 00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:22.680 Yeah? Right, Well, you know books have covers for a reason, 361 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:24.599 so judge the book by its. 362 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:29.119 Cover this way, right, Yeah. Well, sometimes it's just like, Okay, 363 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:32.160 you sent this to a graphic designer and this is 364 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.279 what you get. Okay, great, but no, I love this. 365 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:40.400 So how much of yourself would you say is in 366 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:42.319 these characters? 367 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:47.440 I mean a lot. I feel like, even as an adult, 368 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:51.920 I feel pretty undefined and like something I know about 369 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:54.119 myself right, Like I know who I am at like 370 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:57.920 my core but I also feel like the mutability of 371 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:00.799 like changing over a lifetime is something that has been 372 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:04.559 pretty inspiring. So a lot of my characters like definitely 373 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:08.519 come from pieces of me. There's a ton of meat 374 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:11.359 in this book, but it's probably not where people think 375 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:15.240 to look like. For instance, like Ali as a main character, 376 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:17.759 we don't really have a similar life at all, aside 377 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.559 from being gay, right. But the whole setting for the 378 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:26.279 book Anchors Mercy is inspired by going to Provincetown in 379 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:29.319 this case Problemsuth, Massachusetts with my family every summer for 380 00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:35.039 like a week, and understanding as a result of that that, oh, 381 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:38.720 there are communities full of queer people. And also at 382 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:40.880 a certain point, all these people that I'm seeing in 383 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:42.960 the street, like they go home, they're out there in 384 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:45.880 the world, like they go back to you know, whatever 385 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:49.920 flyover state they decided to leave in order to come here, 386 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:53.319 which was amazing. Rite this idea that like we can 387 00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:55.359 all come together and sort of go back to our lives, 388 00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:57.240 and that there's queer people sort of everywhere as a 389 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:01.880 result of this exchange. And so a lot of those 390 00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:05.440 feelings about like community and the respect that I have 391 00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:08.480 for the sanctuaries that like people who had it way 392 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:12.480 worse than me still found the strength to create is 393 00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:15.440 like a huge part of like this particular story. But 394 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:17.960 I don't know that like I can point to any 395 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.240 singular character and tell you, like, oh, this is a 396 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:24.079 foxy for me. A lot of people have asked because 397 00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:26.680 the main character in this book is his mom. Gracie 398 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:29.599 is like such an important figure in the book. They've 399 00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:32.720 they've sort of insinuated that, like, oh, is that based 400 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:36.680 on your mom? And Luckily no, because Gracie, while she's 401 00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:41.240