WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.000 Hudson River Radio dot com. 2 00:00:03.319 --> 00:00:04.599 It beats listening to nothing. 3 00:00:05.719 --> 00:00:10.759 My goodness, Being Frank, where the only way to be 4 00:00:11.679 --> 00:00:17.120 is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to Being Frank. We're 5 00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:20.679 the only way to be is, of course, Frank. I'm 6 00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:22.480 your host, Frank. We're going and I'd like to thank 7 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:25.000 you for joining us on what we like to call 8 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:29.679 the Intelligent Conversation podcast, where no conversation is out of 9 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:34.240 bounds and all points of view are welcome. Our listeners 10 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:37.679 are familiar with our routine. We record live to tape, 11 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:40.679 and I give you the date for context and relevance. 12 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:45.200 It is the fourth of March. Being Frank kicks off 13 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:48.719 March with a special edition of our program to celebrate 14 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:51.240 Women's History Month. We're going to feature some of the 15 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:55.240 great women from the world of jazz music. Generally, when 16 00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:57.159 we think of the great names and the history of 17 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:00.039 that music, we tend to come up with only men. 18 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:02.679 But that does a disservice to the many great women 19 00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:07.280 who added so much to that uniquely American music. Well, 20 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:10.519 my guests and I intend to fix that. Welcome back 21 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:13.640 for some intelligent conversation and a little bit of great music. 22 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:19.040 He's a musician educator and jazz historian and a contributor 23 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:22.640 here at Being Frank Welcome back, Eric Devido, Thanks again 24 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:23.400 for joining us. 25 00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:25.760 Eric glad to be here. How's it calling? 26 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:30.280 It's going well. So, you know, before we get into 27 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:33.159 and you gave me a wonderful list of fifteen women, 28 00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:37.000 some who might be familiar to our listeners, some not 29 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:41.159 certainly that was my case. But before that, you know, 30 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:43.640 in my lead and I mentioned generally speaking, when we 31 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:47.760 think of jazz, we tend to think of men Charlie Parker, 32 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:52.400 Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie and etc. Etc. But yet there 33 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:56.159 are as a pantheon of women as well. Why do 34 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:59.120 you think the men got the lieon's share of the 35 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:00.840 headlines in the jazz world. 36 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:07.760 Uh, yeah, that's a great question. Well, I'd say it's 37 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:11.560 not that uncommon. You know, throughout history. I think there's 38 00:02:11.719 --> 00:02:17.199 always been an overrepresentation of male figures in the arts. 39 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:20.000 I mean, you see it in classical music for sure. 40 00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:22.840 In fact, I was, you know, because it's Women's History Month. 41 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:25.520 I'm teaching this now in my classroom and we're doing 42 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:29.680 this month all female composers, and people always say, you know, hey, 43 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:33.479 mister Davido. Why do we study so many male composers? 44 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:35.919 And you know, so you see it when we study 45 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:40.159 Beethoven in Mozart. If I ask people to name, you know, 46 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:45.159 twenty composers, more people will probably name Bach and Beethoven 47 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.080 and Mozart before thinking of maybe Fanny Mendelssohn or Clara 48 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:52.719 Schumann or the women. So, you know, I just think 49 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:55.360 it kind of falls in line with the overrepresentation of 50 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:58.080 of you know, male figures, and that's just kind of 51 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:02.400 something that I think is kind of dominated society throughout time. 52 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:07.360 You know, I don't think it's initially you know, it 53 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:10.520 probably started out kind of unconscious maybe, but you know, 54 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:14.199 the more that people champion for women's rights, the more 55 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:17.080 we started to see representation by women. And of course 56 00:03:17.319 --> 00:03:20.479 that's more of a fairly modern thing. So it's funny 57 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:24.000 as you move from classical music, which you know, especially 58 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:26.759 from the earlier periods you know, the Baroque and the 59 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:30.039 Romantic or the classical period. In the Romantic period, you 60 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:33.960 see less female composers. When you get to jazz, which 61 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:36.800 is more modern, you start seeing more. And then when 62 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:41.120 you move into later in the twentieth century with pop music, 63 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:44.360 and you start to see even more, you know, so 64 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:46.599 I think it really just kind of shows as we 65 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.800 progress throughout the time and we champion more equal rights, 66 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:55.919 we see you know, more women being celebrated and contributing, 67 00:03:56.199 --> 00:03:59.000 no different than we've seen, you know, when it comes 68 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:03.639 to African American representation amongst you know, the different genres. 69 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.800 As we kind of champion towards more equality, we see 70 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:10.199 them represented more. There's a lot of there's there tends 71 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:13.120 to be, just like anything else, a lot of systemic 72 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:17.040 you know, inequality that exists that we're kind of breaking down. 73 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:19.439 So now bringing it, you know, per se to jazz, 74 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:24.040 you know, I think it's and I think if you 75 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:27.199 ask any jazz musician, especially one that you know from 76 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:30.120 a while ago or somebody that went to school for jazz, 77 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:34.480 you know, you it's it's always been common to see 78 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:39.399 have more male peers than females. I think that by 79 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:42.639 its nature, jazz tends to be a bit competitive. It 80 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:46.680 has a little bit more maybe male traits associated with 81 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:48.639 some of it. I don't want to say all of it, 82 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:51.720 because you know, there's a lot of uh, you know, 83 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:56.800 if we're talking about feminimity, feminimity in terms of musical 84 00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:01.519 characteristics that's certainly present in jazz, as you know, But 85 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:03.600 there's a lot of kind of like alpha male things 86 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:07.240 that I think have traditionally been associated with jazz it 87 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:10.480 can you know it bebop, especially as a tradition of 88 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:14.959 being cutthroat and being kind of maybe more having some 89 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:17.680 more male alpha qualities. That's not to say that there 90 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:19.639 weren't females though that we're going to talk about today, 91 00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:22.519 that we're really champions of the genre, and in many 92 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:26.480 cases there were many females that were leaders and really 93 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:29.920 innovated the genre. But I feel, like anything else, when 94 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:34.360 it comes to women, this often happens quietly behind the scenes. 95 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:38.040 I feel like, you know, my wife always reminds me 96 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:39.800 of this. Women have a funny way of kind of 97 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:43.839 leading from behind the scenes and sometimes fooling men into 98 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:47.560 thinking they're in charge when they're Often maybe women are 99 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:51.480 a little more savvy that way in many cases. So 100 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:55.600 there have been some really great women who when it 101 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:58.519 comes to the early the blues and jazz, and then 102 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:01.759 of course more so in in rock and roll. But yeah, 103 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:06.360 I think the genre itself is very much associated anyways 104 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:12.639 with some more you know, male types of stereotypes, you know, 105 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:16.959 and jazz especially being born in underground clubs and speakeasies 106 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:20.439 and places that you know, during prohibition, maybe we're kind 107 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:24.360 of thought out as being not so uh, you know, 108 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:26.720 family friendly and things like that, and I feel like 109 00:06:26.759 --> 00:06:29.240 women were kind of not you know, it was more 110 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:32.920 unexpected maybe during that time to see women and being associated. 111 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:36.040 It was a start of sexuality. And we've discussed this 112 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:39.000 in a previous show. I mean that's part of the 113 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:41.279 of the of the attraction, I guess, if you will, 114 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:46.959 in jazz, so again, as you mentioned, depending on the time, 115 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:51.519 that was frowned upon, certainly in feminine circles. 116 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:54.199 Yeah, yeah, I agree, and I think I think, you know, 117 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:59.000 average listeners I think tend to of course, you know, know, 118 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:03.639 more of the male jazz figures because they're may be 119 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:07.399 more you know, they're more popular, or they're more historically noted. 120 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:10.720 But it's funny, you know, I think back to when 121 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:13.480 I was in school studying jazz, and there were so 122 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:17.560 many of my peers you know, were male, but there 123 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:20.639 was a few you know, women, and it's almost it's 124 00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:25.120 almost like sometimes they have a harder you know, like 125 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:28.319 in many cases with females and societies when to make 126 00:07:28.360 --> 00:07:30.439 it to the top is even harder for many of 127 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:32.759 the females because they have to push through such a 128 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:35.839 male dominated society. So when you see them there, there 129 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:37.680 tended to be a lot of respect, and you know, 130 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:40.879 maybe that was misplaced respect, or maybe that's a bit stereotype, 131 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:44.160 but I remember all of the women really gaining a 132 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:46.920 lot of respect because they had to sift through a 133 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:49.279 lot of men's crap to kind of get to the 134 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:51.959 spot that they were and earn that respect, you know. 135 00:07:52.439 --> 00:07:53.879 And I think you see that in a lot of fields, 136 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:55.680 not just jazz or music in general. 137 00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:00.759 Well, you know, I always appreciate that research you do 138 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:03.600 for this program America and give us such a great perspective, 139 00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:06.959 and you gave us fifteen names in a kind of 140 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:11.199 a chronological order. Yeah, it was interesting as it developed. 141 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:14.439 So let's go and against As I mentioned in the beginning, 142 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:18.120 some might be somewhat familiar, some not at all. But 143 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:20.240 I'm going to leave it up to you to help 144 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:24.480 us understand these women and what impact they had on 145 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:28.079 not only music, but on culture. And we started in 146 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:32.279 eighteen eighty six with my RAINI tell us, Yeah. 147 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:35.120 So I put my Raini first on the list. And 148 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:38.240 by the way, any jazz musician will who's listening or 149 00:08:38.679 --> 00:08:40.399 is going to hear this list and probably want to 150 00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:41.840 be like, why did you leave this person out? 151 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:43.720 And how could you We were going to invite people 152 00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:47.360 at does your list match with? 153 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:48.240 So? 154 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:51.159 Apologies because I'm sure I left plenty of people out, 155 00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:54.679 but obviously it's good. But My Rainy is kind of 156 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:57.519 you know, we're really going back to the blues here 157 00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:01.279 before jazz, you know, the roots of jazz, and my 158 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:05.080 Rainie is often called the mother of the blues. You know, 159 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:07.440 she was one of among the first professional blues singers 160 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.399 to record and tour nationally. She started her career in 161 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:15.720 like nineteen twenty three, and she really helped transition the 162 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:21.120 rural Southern blues into these like more urban vaudeville kind 163 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:25.360 of circuits and the emerging recording industry. So she really 164 00:09:25.399 --> 00:09:28.240 helped kind of elevate this very you know, folk like 165 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:32.200 southern blues thing into this more national, you know, culture 166 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:34.679 and form of entertainment. And for that, you know, I 167 00:09:34.679 --> 00:09:37.440 think we really owe a lot of just elevating the 168 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:43.440 art form of the blues to her, but also her 169 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:46.120 unique style, you know, was a She had this powerful 170 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:49.919 contra alto voices, deep low voice. She was very theatrical 171 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:54.399 and dramatic, and her lyrics are very candid, you know, 172 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:56.720 and again going back to what we kind of expect 173 00:09:56.720 --> 00:09:59.480 from men versus women in society. When you hear My 174 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:02.240 Rainy sing and you hear her deep, you know, voice 175 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:05.759 and her guttural sounds and then the candid lyrics that 176 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:08.840 she's singing, you know, things that were you know, maybe 177 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:11.440 a little bit taboo and things like that. I think 178 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:14.519 it really spoke about her ability to kind of transcend 179 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:19.759 genre and also her phrasing, her emotion that she brought 180 00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:22.240 to the music that really kind of laid the foundation 181 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:25.639 later for you know, everything that blues and jazz musicians 182 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:27.639 were looking to do to take their having their own 183 00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:31.120 unique voice and interpretation. She was doing that, you know, 184 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:32.759 very early in her career. 185 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:37.080 Unfortunately, we can't listen to clips of all the women. 186 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:40.320 We do have some, but we can make suggestions, and 187 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:43.519 again I appreciate you for compiling this. So if you 188 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:46.840 want to listen to Ma Rainey and again available through 189 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:51.279 YouTube and you can google et cetera and see c 190 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:57.799 writer that's see see Writer Blues a good example of 191 00:10:57.919 --> 00:10:59.000 my Rainey's music. 192 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:02.000 Yeah, there's also a great movie that came out a 193 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:04.919 couple of years ago called Ma Raini, Ma Rainey's Black 194 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:07.279 Bottom Stomp, I think it was called. And it's a 195 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:10.000 really great movie, and it's very fictional. You know, a 196 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:14.200 lot of it is you know, you know, Hollywood magic 197 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:16.120 and things. But I think it really did a great 198 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:18.840 job of kind of portraying a lot of what was 199 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:22.759 happening during that time in the music industry and what 200 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:25.240 life was like for her, you know, as a woman 201 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:28.080 in the recording industry. So it's a great movie if 202 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:29.240 you want to check it out. But it's not like 203 00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:32.000 a horse historical portrayal per se. 204 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:37.399 All Right, let's move up to eighteen ninety four. A 205 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:40.399 name that many people might be familiar with, if not 206 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:43.399 necessarily all her work, but kind of a familiar name, 207 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:45.840 Bessie Smith. Tell us about her. 208 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:50.080 Yeah, so Bessie Smith, the Empress of the Blues. You know, 209 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:54.240 when I think of women in jazz, I really first 210 00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:56.639 think of, you know, starting with Bessie Smith, even though 211 00:11:56.679 --> 00:11:58.240 we really need to go back to Ma Raini, but 212 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:04.399 I feel like she is maybe more, maybe more recognizable 213 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:07.000 to a lot of you know, blues and jazz musicians 214 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:11.840 or maybe non musicians. Even she was probably the most 215 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:16.240 successful black recording artist of the nineteen twenties. She had 216 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:20.279 a very commanding projection, and she you know, had this 217 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.120 dramatic storytelling through her music, and that also really kind 218 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:27.519 of shaped jazz phrasing. And also I think, you know, 219 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:29.519 something that popped up a lot in that I think 220 00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:32.679 of a lot both with Maraini and Bessie Smith, is 221 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:34.679 this kind of idea and then you see it later 222 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:40.279 with other singers like Ella Fitzgerald and Sarah Vaughan, this 223 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:46.559 idea of like vocal authority where it's that you're commanding 224 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:49.440 this presence and you're clearly like leading, you know, and 225 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:53.080 this and the music is revolving around your presence. And 226 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:55.679 you know, these these women were doing that at a 227 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:58.759 very early time and something I think wasn't easy for 228 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:01.279 a woman woman to do is in the nineteen twenties. 229 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:04.559 But Bessie Smith really had also this great vocal authority 230 00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:06.440 and she recorded. You know, she did a lot of 231 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:09.480 recording sessions with all these great leading jazz musicians at 232 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:13.399 the time, including Lewis Armstrong and her work, I think 233 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:18.440 also really helped solidify the vocalists the singer as kind 234 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.720 of this central interpretive force in jazz. A lot of 235 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:28.879 people later, you know, on their instruments would emulate singers, 236 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:32.360 you know, people initially Now it's funny now with more 237 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:36.840 modern jazz, voices often emulate instruments, but initially instrument like 238 00:13:36.919 --> 00:13:40.480 Louis Armstrong when he was first solo, he was emulating singers, 239 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:42.480 you know, he was trying to phrase his trumpet how 240 00:13:42.519 --> 00:13:44.759 he would sing in other singers, and I think Bessie 241 00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:48.159 Smith is one of his examples of these singers is vocal, 242 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:52.080 you know, presence that instrumentalists were trying to emulate. 243 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:55.759 Now we're able to play a clip, so we're going 244 00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:58.799 to hear Saint Louis Blue. Set it up briefly for us. 245 00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:00.960 Eric set up the song for us a little bit. 246 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:03.519 What well, So Sat Louis Blues is just a very 247 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.519 classic blues you often hear, you know, sometimes we'll associate 248 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:10.000 it with early jazz, even though it is a you know, 249 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:12.399 it's blues in the title, but it's kind of been 250 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:16.320 recorded by everybody, you know. But if you're in a 251 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:18.559 New Orleans jazz group or an early jazz group, you know, 252 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:23.600 everyone from Lewis Armstrong. Kind of a central early jazz standard. 253 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:27.320 But it's still you know, it's still a very popular 254 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:28.879 tune and irrelevant tune today. 255 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:32.720 Great tune, and it's also available via YouTube. But let's 256 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:34.200 check out a bit here. 257 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:43.480 We go, nme. 258 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:08.679 Make me. 259 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:25.720 Wow. You know, I don't know if it's the right word, 260 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:28.759 but it comes pops into my mind is syrup. It's 261 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:33.799 just so rich and thick and yeah, moves moving slowly 262 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:37.799 but deliciously. I guess if that makes sense to anybody. 263 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.399 Yeah, and I think you know you heard, if you 264 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:42.000 if you go back and let's do it. You really 265 00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:44.440 hear the trumpet player there, and I'm not sure who 266 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:46.840 that is. I don't I don't think that was Lewis Armstrong, 267 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:49.759 but I'm not sure who it was. Really kind of 268 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:54.000 using the singer, you know, really playing off the singer, 269 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:57.159 you know, trying the trumpet lines and the improvisation is 270 00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:59.440 really kind of trying to emulate and do this call 271 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:02.120 and answer or with the vocalists in a very similar manner. 272 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:04.840 I think that's a great example of that. You know, 273 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:07.320 it's funny with these really old blues recordings of course, 274 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:10.720 and early jazz of course. Like the technology back then 275 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:17.159 and the recording technology was you know, so you know crude. 276 00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:20.519 So there's often this kind of like out of tune 277 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:23.840 warbleness that you always hear with these old recordings, And 278 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:26.480 sometimes I feel like not that it does it a disservice. 279 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:29.759 Sometimes it has a nice vibe to it, you know, 280 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:32.919 it has this vintage vibe, but you know, I'm always 281 00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:35.679 thinking like it's it definitely would have sounded much different 282 00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:38.120 in person, just because you're not you know, you're hearing 283 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:40.759 it through this dated recording technology that in a way 284 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:43.039 has become associated with the time period. 285 00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:47.120 Now, you know, yeah, live, they wouldn't necessarily sound like that. 286 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:50.639 That had a lot to do with the recording process. Yeah, 287 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:53.759 an interesting point of view. Yeah, Or let's let's move 288 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:59.279 on in chronological order. Born in eighteen ninety eight. Woman 289 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:01.960 I'm not furoreamiliar with, but you're gonna help us to 290 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:05.880 become more familiar with her. Lil Hardened Armstrong. 291 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:09.880 Yeah, so Lil Harden Armstrong right, married to Lewis Armstrong. 292 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:13.720 Behind every great man is a great woman. Wow, That's 293 00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:17.880 what my wife always tells me. Anyways, regularly they do 294 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:24.200 so little Harden Armstrong. So she was a classically trained pianist, 295 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:26.400 but she was a great composer and arranger and a 296 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:30.160 band leader, and she really helped kind of shape a 297 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.799 lot of the you know, she played a pivotal role 298 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.039 in the kind of shaping early Chicago jazz. And she 299 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:40.720 encouraged Louis Armstrong to begin his solo career. And I 300 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:43.039 didn't know that part actually when I was when I 301 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:45.480 was looking up some of this stuff, how influential she 302 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:48.519 was in terms of his solo career. You know, I 303 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:50.920 know Louis Armstrong was course big, and you know, I 304 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:54.599 think maybe his his you know, he went from being 305 00:17:54.680 --> 00:17:58.119 this great famous musician to being this like mega icon, 306 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:03.200 you know, the equivalent of a superstar as a soloist, 307 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:08.920 of course. And I guess she had sure I was 308 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:13.319 gonna say, Taylor Swift and okay, right now, keep it 309 00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:16.359 in the woman the women's theme going here, But you know, 310 00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:18.079 I guess she had really a lot to do with 311 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:23.440 that influence, you know. So so anyways, but this was 312 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:26.359 also a time when women band leaders were very rare, 313 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:28.480 you know, as we said, especially and you know, when 314 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:30.839 you're talking about being a band leader. There's more than 315 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:33.119 just being a great musician. You know, there's dealing with 316 00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:39.359 clashing personalities and annoying men and annoying people, you know, 317 00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:41.160 and you know, I could tell you being a band 318 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:43.799 leader comes with his own its own set of headaches. 319 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:46.640 You know. Sometimes it might pay more, but sometimes it's 320 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.160 nice to just show up, play and go home and 321 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:51.839 all the headaches or somebody else's problem. So, you know, 322 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:54.119 she was doing that in a time when when doing 323 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:57.279 it were kind of rare. But also she really played 324 00:18:57.400 --> 00:18:57.960 a big role. 325 00:18:58.039 --> 00:18:58.200 You know. 326 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:00.680 Lewis Armstrong was in these groups, the Five and the 327 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:05.039 Hot Seven, these kind of smaller groups you know, that 328 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:09.200 were very successful, and she was kind of an important 329 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:13.519 influence in the structuralate development of the small jazz group, 330 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:17.799 you know, and how small group jazz would operate, you know, 331 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.599 and jazz kind of early jazz took on this kind 332 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:24.759 of standard instrumentation, right of having a trumpet, a clarinet, 333 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:28.960 a trombone and then the rhythm section, and that development, 334 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:31.359 you know, has more or less been kind of associated 335 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:34.720 that instrumentation is associated with the genre and we often think, 336 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:38.319 you know, Lewis Armstrong being central to that, and you know, 337 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:42.960 according to what I'm learning about here, also Lil Harden Armstrong, 338 00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:45.720 who was doing a lot of maybe arranging on her 339 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:49.160 own time or maybe behind the scenes too, so just 340 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:51.119 as important, another great example I think of the kind 341 00:19:51.160 --> 00:19:56.799 of the quiet, behind the scenes influence that women often 342 00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:57.599 had in music. 343 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:02.880 So yeah, yeah, people are interested again YouTube doing the 344 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.960 Susie Q that's right of her music. Okay, let's move 345 00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:13.039 on now again we're chronologically speaking in nineteen ten born 346 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:15.599 Mary Lou Williams. Tell us about Mary. 347 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:19.319 Look, Mary Lou Williams. Yeah, so you know, there's this 348 00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:25.319 very very famous photograph. A lot of people, you know, musicians, 349 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:30.200 especially jazz musicians, they probably all have it somewhere. It's 350 00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:32.920 a I'm trying to remember of the name of the photographer, 351 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:39.119 but it's this big photograph. Is it by Art Kane? 352 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:41.640 Maybe I don't know. It's this big photograph of all 353 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:44.960 of these great jazz musicians and they're standing in front 354 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:46.000 of a brownstone building. 355 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:48.799 Yes, yes, yeah, it is Art Kane, I believe. 356 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:50.839 Yeah, right, And I used to have it for so 357 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:53.240 long and I can't even remember if I still have 358 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:55.640 it or not. But anyways, Mary the Williams is in there, 359 00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:57.759 and there's so few women in it, you know, there's 360 00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:01.680 like Mary and McPartland's in there. I think I put 361 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:04.119 on this list, But Mary the Williams is in there, 362 00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:07.359 and she's kind of like one of I think, one 363 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:11.559 of jazz's most versatile musicians. She began in the Swing era. 364 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:14.960 She was an arranger and a piano player, and I 365 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:17.240 didn't know this, you know, I knew how involved she 366 00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:21.359 kind of was and how she kind of transitioned into bebob, 367 00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:25.200 but she actually was a mentor to these bebop pioneers 368 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:27.559 like Dizzy Gillespie and Delonious Monk, which I didn't I 369 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:31.400 wasn't that aware of, you know, So she really is 370 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:33.759 starting to kind of you know, maybe maybe we could 371 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:35.200 think of her as one of the first well known 372 00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:39.920 women to really bridge from the swing period into more 373 00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:43.000 modern jazz or bebop, you know, where all these giants 374 00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:45.400 came out of, like Charlie Parker and Disney Gillespie and 375 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.640 Delonious Monk and all these people like that. So she 376 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:53.400 had such a great presence and these guys were giants, 377 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:57.000 and so, you know, learning that she mentored these guys, 378 00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:00.640 I think says a lot. Again, behind all these great 379 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:04.440 men was this woman, like, you know, being so influential 380 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:07.680 and Mary the Williams. Also she composed the cool, like 381 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:12.079 large scale works which could almost like quasi you know, 382 00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:16.759 orchestral classical, you know, genre bending kind of stuff. She 383 00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:21.279 had something called the Zodiac Suite and these sacred jazz masses. 384 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:24.920 So she was really bridging multiple errors kind of jazz evolution, 385 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:27.400 you know, not unlike people like Duke Ellington would do 386 00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:30.599 later and even you know soun Ron, these like modern 387 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:34.000 kind of musicians that were blending and transcending genre. Well, 388 00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:36.359 she was kind of pioneering some of that way back when. 389 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:40.319 So yeah, and there's a great tune called Rollam that 390 00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:40.960 you're listening to. 391 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:46.319 Again on YouTube. Yeah it's great. Okay. Now, next up 392 00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:49.960 a name that's familiar, I would think to most not 393 00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:53.559 only jazz and Feshonado's, but such a strong presence not 394 00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:58.240 only musically but culturally. Born in nineteen fifteen, Billie Holiday. 395 00:22:59.319 --> 00:22:59.519 Yeah. 396 00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:05.759 So Billie Holiday, you know, is in some ways maybe 397 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:10.799 the you know, quintessential jazz vocalist. To me, she's the 398 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:15.359 perfect blend of the blues and jazz. She for her 399 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:19.000 whole life, no matter how. You know, as she got 400 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:24.160 older and as the music modernized, she she never left 401 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:27.440