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Speaker 6: You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking
Speaker 6: Killers in True crime History and the authors that have
Speaker 6: written about them. Gay Bundy Dahmer The Nightstalker VTK Every
Speaker 6: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 6: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 6: journalist and author Dan.
Speaker 7: Zupanski, Good Evening.
Speaker 8: Much is known about American and European serial killers, but
Speaker 8: you do to know that more than one hundred and
Speaker 8: fifty homicidal maniacs have plagued the former Soviet Union during
Speaker 8: the last one hundred years. Nicknamed the night Creature, the
Speaker 8: urals Strangler, or the Belashika Ripper in their native motherland,
Speaker 8: these sex fiends have committed some of the most heinous
Speaker 8: series of murders in the history of modern criminology. This
Speaker 8: book follows the stories of twenty five maniacs. Unable to
Speaker 8: control their dark fantasies, they savagely tortured, strangled, stabbed and
Speaker 8: defiled their victims in unspeakable ways. Illustrated with more than
Speaker 8: two hundred photographs unearthed from the secret archives of retired
Speaker 8: police colonels, and forensic psychiatrists. Russian serial Killers Volume one
Speaker 8: Maniacs takes you on a true crime journey from the
Speaker 8: suburbs of Moscow to the frozen wastelands of Siberia. The
Speaker 8: book that we're featuring this evening is Russian serial Killers
Speaker 8: Volume one Maniacs, with my special guest author and publisher
Speaker 8: Nico kloe Welcome back to the program, and thank you
Speaker 8: so much for this interview.
Speaker 4: Nko cloeh, thank you, thank you for having me again.
Speaker 8: Thank you so much, and congratulations on this extraordinary collection
Speaker 8: of serial killers. Right away, let's go to how you
Speaker 8: came to this idea, the origins of this idea, and
Speaker 8: the origins of this book.
Speaker 9: In two thousand and six, I was contacted by a
Speaker 9: Russian journalist was working for a true crime magazine in
Speaker 9: Russia called me Criminal which means the criminal world, and
Speaker 9: so he wanted to interview me for his readers. The
Speaker 9: interview went free well, and after that, I you know,
Speaker 9: I've been intrigued by stories of Russian serial killers for
Speaker 9: years before that, and I had read of course about
Speaker 9: Andre Chikatillo, Rastav Ripper, but also about a few others
Speaker 9: like the Chess bob Killer or the Apopotamus, some of
Speaker 9: the some of those nicknames that we have read about
Speaker 9: in the West, but sometimes, you know, the stories that
Speaker 9: we had never heard about. And the crazy thing is
Speaker 9: when I mentioned my interest in Russian serial cullers, this
Speaker 9: journalist sent me a KDF with over one or your
Speaker 9: names with photographs and it was a list of all
Speaker 9: the Russian serial killers that he had listed himself. Was
Speaker 9: interested in publishing something in Russian about it, but he
Speaker 9: said that he didn't have the time and even told
Speaker 9: me that the Russian readers would not be interested in
Speaker 9: such a book. I was quite surprised, because, of course,
Speaker 9: as a true crime but you know, I'm always looking
Speaker 9: for new stories and I want to know no more.
Speaker 9: You know, the Chicken Tillo story is one of the
Speaker 9: pratziest serial killer stories I've ever read. And just the
Speaker 9: fact of knowing that there were like more than ninety
Speaker 9: nine killers similar killers in Russian history, it is mind blowing.
Speaker 9: And so I had this list somewhere in my comp
Speaker 9: four years back. In those days, I was working for
Speaker 9: French publishing company cale Camela, but my boss was not
Speaker 9: interested in covering those kind of cases. And it's not
Speaker 9: until last year when I created my own publishing company
Speaker 9: in English with English others that I've decided to dig
Speaker 9: up this PDI file and to start doing some deep
Speaker 9: research in Russian websites, mostly so most of them were
Speaker 9: written in cyrillic.
Speaker 4: I have had a.
Speaker 9: Friend who is fluent in Russian who happened a lot
Speaker 9: helped me find the right websites. And what's very interesting
Speaker 9: is that there is a lot of Russian websites which
Speaker 9: covered those cases like we have in the West. So
Speaker 9: I was able to find plenty of photographs that were
Speaker 9: never published in the West before. And most important for
Speaker 9: me was to find articles and biographies of each of
Speaker 9: those killers. And this is how this book came to life.
Speaker 8: Basically, you this is a volume one and you plan
Speaker 8: to have three volumes.
Speaker 7: Now tell us.
Speaker 8: Why that is. And the other thing is is that
Speaker 8: you say that there's one thing shared by all the
Speaker 8: killers featured in that in this book, and what is
Speaker 8: that one thing that these killers all share?
Speaker 9: Well, probably the thing that they all share. One of
Speaker 9: the things that they all share is that most of
Speaker 9: them they are totally unknown in the West, except for
Speaker 9: Chikatiro and a few others. But for me the important
Speaker 9: for us to actually give life to those stories, because
Speaker 9: those stories, I think that they deserve to be known,
Speaker 9: they deserve to be available to a large audience, and
Speaker 9: they deserve to be you know, each story it's totally
Speaker 9: different from the other, but at the same time you
Speaker 9: can actually see similar amos or I don't know, some
Speaker 9: of those killers have the equivalent in the West. And
Speaker 9: that's what I really found fascinating with those stories. As
Speaker 9: I told you, in this par file that I had,
Speaker 9: there were more than one undred names, and I had
Speaker 9: to narrow down for the purpose of a single book
Speaker 9: to twenty five because I didn't want those books to
Speaker 9: be catalogs with short bios. For me, this is totally meaningless, useless.
Speaker 9: I wanted to develop each story, and each story did
Speaker 9: at least deserved at least three or four pages. Some
Speaker 9: of those stories they cover more than twenty pages in
Speaker 9: the book. And I soon realized, of course that I couldn't,
Speaker 9: you know, put one hundred killers in one single book.
Speaker 9: It would be a one thousand pages book. So I
Speaker 9: decided to split it in threevolumes. The first volume is
Speaker 9: focusing on what the Russians called many Acts. This is
Speaker 9: the word that they have for this, it's thought for
Speaker 9: sexual predators. The second volume will be un cannibals.
Speaker 4: So the I've.
Speaker 9: Listed more than twenty cannibals in Russia, most most of
Speaker 9: them serial killers, so that's an impressive number. Of course,
Speaker 9: there's a chicken Tillo, but there's so many others that
Speaker 9: we have never heard of in the West. And this
Speaker 9: is the story that I am working on right now.
Speaker 9: And the third book will be focused on what they
Speaker 9: call the in Russia the exterminators, and for them, it's
Speaker 9: people who kill victims whould the thing deserves to be
Speaker 9: killed because, for example, or the sexual orientation, or because
Speaker 9: of the religion or the ethnicity. And surprisingly those are
Speaker 9: the ones who have the biggest bodycounts well, and yes
Speaker 9: it's incredible. For example, the chessboart killer definitely belongs to
Speaker 9: that category of exterminators. So there would be three volume Mender.
Speaker 9: The first volume, the book that we are talking about
Speaker 9: now and that I have released two months ago, is
Speaker 9: focusing on sex many acts, and as you have seen
Speaker 9: while reading the book, there's a lot of different paraphilias
Speaker 9: throughout the books that are shown by these killers, whether
Speaker 9: it be fetishism, the craffilia, bondage, s and m. There's
Speaker 9: an entire white spectrum of deviances, and I have found
Speaker 9: this to be extremely intriguing.
Speaker 8: You say that the one thing that is shared by
Speaker 8: all these killers as well featured in this book is
Speaker 8: their obsession for cruelty. Oh yes, yes, given that, let's
Speaker 8: go and go through the list of the twenty five killers,
Speaker 8: starting with Boris Goose. Then you call him the student
Speaker 8: Hunter and named the kills, and also the number of
Speaker 8: kills pardon me, and the dates that they the murderous
Speaker 8: reign occurred.
Speaker 9: So let's start with Bussakov, the student Hunter who killed
Speaker 9: in the late late sixties. He killed six women. Then
Speaker 9: there is Nikolai Shestakov, the luberrets Kimniak, who killed twelve
Speaker 9: victims in nineteen seventy five in the space of a year.
Speaker 9: We have Vladimir Saramia forgive by accent, of course, I'm
Speaker 9: not firenteen Russian. He only killed, well holy, he only
Speaker 9: killed two people, and he was called the Alexandrovski repper.
Speaker 9: We have Andrei, killer of women in red, so he
Speaker 9: had this specific fetish with the women who were dressing
Speaker 9: in the color red. He killed nine women.
Speaker 4: In the late late.
Speaker 9: Seventies, he was also killed. The kind eyed killer is
Speaker 9: quite quite interesting as a nickname. One of my favorites
Speaker 9: in the books in terms of story telling and the
Speaker 9: sheer BodyCount with nineteen nineteen kills in the late eighties
Speaker 9: is sgeiakhovs he Barashicai Reaper, also nicknamed the Hippopotamus because
Speaker 9: of his size. This chapter as probably the most graphic
Speaker 9: pictures in the book. Yes, then we have the cemetery
Speaker 9: maniac took an off eight killed during the nineties. We
Speaker 9: have Anatoly Nagi, have a very interesting one the Pugatcheva's
Speaker 9: taught he was obsessed with an actress and he killed
Speaker 9: women who looked like her. And he committed the massacre
Speaker 9: inside the train on the bodies from the moving train.
Speaker 9: It was a horriworll site. We have Eagle shar Natt,
Speaker 9: the evil spirit of calf healths He with four kills
Speaker 9: was working in military grounds. He was killing in military grounds.
Speaker 9: Have igle It Tilts show from Saint Petersburg the stadistic
Speaker 9: male prostitute with nine victims, an interesting case. Also after
Speaker 9: this we have sarg Ship of the vest Chickatillo let
Speaker 9: me just tell you about all those Chickatilo copy CAATs,
Speaker 9: because that's quite interesting. Right after the the Chickatillo case
Speaker 9: was covered by the media early in nineties, there was
Speaker 9: a lot of copycats in Russia and each were nicknamed
Speaker 9: the For example, if they were killing in the verse
Speaker 9: region they were, they were named the Verse Chickatillo. So
Speaker 9: ship of kills, for example, fourteen victims the late nineties,
Speaker 9: four five years after the last victim of Andrei Chikatiro.
Speaker 4: We are here.
Speaker 9: We have one of the most interesting cases in the book,
Speaker 9: in my opinion, and a totly slippo also known as
Speaker 9: the Honored Torture with seven kills between nineteen sixty four
Speaker 9: and nineteen eighty five. After this we moving to Vladimirmu Hunking,
Speaker 9: another Chicatillo copy cut, nicknamed the puppill of Chackatillo, with
Speaker 9: nine kills in nineteen ninety five, nine murders in the
Speaker 9: space of one year. Then we have body Cerebriakov, the
Speaker 9: Night Creatures, the night creature he was getting in the
Speaker 9: late seven sixties. And what's interesting with him is that
Speaker 9: he had a very swell ammo to Richard Ramirez. He
Speaker 9: would break and enter into homes and kill the person's
Speaker 9: while they were sleeping. It's a very interesting case. So
Speaker 9: it was not called the Night's Talker but the night creature.
Speaker 9: This also is really interesting. Then we have an Aatoy
Speaker 9: would kind Ood he had enough Kimmniac nine kills between
Speaker 9: nineteen sixty eight and nineteen seventy three. And Vladimirus of
Speaker 9: the boy Untwer five kills between seventy four seventy five.
Speaker 9: Vladimir vini Chevski, it's a really old case from the thirties,
Speaker 9: nineteen thirty eight, ninety thirty nine, and he killed eight boys.
Speaker 9: He was, you know, not really older than his victims,
Speaker 9: as a teenager, one of the youngest stereo killers in Russia.
Speaker 9: Then we have Nikolai Fefilov, the control in Nias Strangler,
Speaker 9: seven killers in the eighties. We have vasillequalic Ill Pusk Monster.
Speaker 9: He was a doctor who killed his victims in nineteen
Speaker 9: eighty four and nineteen eighty six. Very interesting case too.
Speaker 9: And now it's time to talk about Russia's most prolific
Speaker 9: sterio killer with seventy eight victims a totally crazy body counts. Yeah,
Speaker 9: he killed them between nineteen ninety two and twenty ten.
Speaker 9: His name is Mihael Popkoff, was also known as the
Speaker 9: Werewolf of Siberia or the Angersque Maniac. He was a policeman,
Speaker 9: so it was easy for him to actually leave no trace,
Speaker 9: no crew whatsoever. This is why he told so many people.
Speaker 9: Then we haven't Alexander Besilov, the night Demon or like
Speaker 9: could lets off the Balashka Ripper ten victims in between
Speaker 9: ninety one and ninety two. One of the most interesting
Speaker 9: now Selgei tash Pavlov had maniac also known as the
Speaker 9: Polovski maniac, thirty seven victims between ninety eighty and two
Speaker 9: thousand and five, or nearly twenty five years without being arrested.
Speaker 9: He also was a policeman. There is a lot of
Speaker 9: photos also in this chapter. We are near the end
Speaker 9: with the well known nepro Clovsk many acts. You probably
Speaker 9: have heard of them, because yes, they did a video
Speaker 9: of the extremely graphic senough video filming themselves where they
Speaker 9: were killing a homeless person with farms and knives. This
Speaker 9: was leaked and you could find those videos in websites
Speaker 9: such as aubridge dot com.
Speaker 4: Back in those.
Speaker 9: Days, they killed twenty one homeless people in the space
Speaker 9: of two months in two thousand and seven.
Speaker 4: Incredible, incredible, incredible.
Speaker 9: So that's not the last case in the book. The
Speaker 9: last case is actually back to your Matya Kubov, also
Speaker 9: known as the who'sbeg Chickachillo, another really interesting case. It
Speaker 9: was nicknamed the Maniac in White Gloves because it would
Speaker 9: always wear white gloves while committee his crimes. So, yes,
Speaker 9: this is the list of the twenty five killers that
Speaker 9: are featured in this book. Most of those killers or
Speaker 9: most of those cases are illustrated by dozens of photos.
Speaker 9: I tried to write the definitive book on those cases.
Speaker 9: It has never been done before, and I wanted to
Speaker 9: these series of books to be the the reference on
Speaker 9: the subject.
Speaker 8: Before we start going and specifically exploring the specifics of
Speaker 8: some of these other some of these crimes from these killers,
Speaker 8: because are quite interesting as the case studies themselves. You
Speaker 8: explained to and you touched on it in terms of
Speaker 8: the government and the police not acting like we had
Speaker 8: seen the golden age of serial killers treated in America
Speaker 8: with the media all a frenzy. So, as you write
Speaker 8: in the book, explain the situation in Russia in terms
Speaker 8: of the politics and the media and their attitude towards
Speaker 8: admitting that there was a problem and there were serial
Speaker 8: killers in Russi.
Speaker 9: So alf of the cases that I cover in this
Speaker 9: book were committed before eighty nine. As you know, nineteen
Speaker 9: eighty nine was the date when Soviet Empire collapsed, and
Speaker 9: it was also the year when the crimes of a
Speaker 9: chickatillo became to receive international coverage. What was happening during
Speaker 9: the Soviet period. There was a lot of crimes, of course,
Speaker 9: and what's surprising is that there was as many crimes
Speaker 9: serial murders in the USSR then in America at the
Speaker 9: same time in the seventies, in the sixties. There's even
Speaker 9: serialties in the thirties in Russia. But those crimes were
Speaker 9: deliberately not talked about. When the police would find out
Speaker 9: that they had a serial the louse in the province
Speaker 9: or in the local town, they would alert the higher authorities,
Speaker 9: but they would not communicate to the press. So all
Speaker 9: those cases they that just would not be covered by
Speaker 9: the national press at all. You must understand that crime
Speaker 9: in general and cerial murder, of course, were considered as
Speaker 9: typically Western evils. Those kinds of things were not supposed
Speaker 9: to happen in the Soviet the Soviet Republic. So when
Speaker 9: a case implying several murders and sex murders was investigated
Speaker 9: by the local police, they would, first of all, they
Speaker 9: would try to find as soon as possible a possible suspect.
Speaker 9: They would torture the suspect until he would confess to
Speaker 9: the crimes, even if it was nowhere near the crime scenes,
Speaker 9: and then they would say, okay, we've got, you know,
Speaker 9: the suspect. We've got the person who's guilty. He was
Speaker 9: sent to prison, usually killed before he would even go
Speaker 9: on trial, and they would try to just you know,
Speaker 9: cover the case. And it's only when local people would
Speaker 9: find out that there would be other victims in their
Speaker 9: community that they will actually not call the local police
Speaker 9: because they did not even trust them anymore. So they
Speaker 9: would try to alert the higher instances that the people
Speaker 9: at the Soviet party were, you know, above the police
Speaker 9: bureaucracy of the local town.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 9: So this is why those crimes they were just put
Speaker 9: on the carpet. They were they were locked inside a cupboard.
Speaker 9: There were skeletons in the closet basically of the Russian regime,
Speaker 9: and when the Soviet Union collapsed, journalists began to have
Speaker 9: access to police archives and they found out that there
Speaker 9: was a lot of cases that they had never heard
Speaker 9: about before. So they began to cover those cases. And
Speaker 9: it is when they began to publish through Prime magazine
Speaker 9: detective magazines, which most of them were created in the nineties,
Speaker 9: and they would cover those cases. But at the same
Speaker 9: time it still was not still was considered as something
Speaker 9: that was typically Western and American words themselves here and
Speaker 9: killer was never used when covering those cases. They would
Speaker 9: talk about maniacs. That's the word that they liked when
Speaker 9: describing those kinds of cases. Chikatillo. Of course, it was
Speaker 9: impossible to cover the case the case I mean, so
Speaker 9: this is when they actually began to talk about to
Speaker 9: cover the cases when it was impossible to hide anymore.
Speaker 9: This is when they covered such cases as the chessboard
Speaker 9: killer or Theopopotamus, because there were so many victims that
Speaker 9: it was just impossible to hide.
Speaker 8: What's fascinating, and I spoke too, is that I've read
Speaker 8: numerous accounts of the police overreach and overstepping and using
Speaker 8: the third degree before Miranda warnings legislation in America. But
Speaker 8: this book is right with wrongful conviction by virtue of
Speaker 8: wrongful confessions, by virtue of outright torture and beatings of suspects.
Speaker 9: Yes, police brutality at it's worse, and they would even
Speaker 9: pay convicts inside the prisons to actually kill suspects for
Speaker 9: them so that there would.
Speaker 4: Be no trial.
Speaker 9: It was easier for them, and this was their way
Speaker 9: to hide the failure as an investigate team. So yes,
Speaker 9: it was really hard times. For example, when we're talking
Speaker 9: about murders in the gay community, of course they would
Speaker 9: target people who were considered by the state as enemies
Speaker 9: of the state because of the sexual orientation. There were
Speaker 9: some innocent people who ended up in jail or were
Speaker 9: killed because they were only accused. It's a sad reality,
Speaker 9: but that's definitely what used to happen in those days
Speaker 9: in the Soviet Republic.
Speaker 8: And let's use this as an opportunity to stop for
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Speaker 8: code shocking. Now, Nico, I want to use this opportunity
Speaker 8: to explore some of the stories of the twenty five
Speaker 8: incredible serial killers that you feature in this collection, just
Speaker 8: to demonstrate the uniqueness and some of the parallels that
Speaker 8: we think that are unique. Well, some of the things
Speaker 8: that we think are unique and exclusive to American serial
Speaker 8: killers as legendary one that we regard the golden age
Speaker 8: of serial killing. These Russian serial killers, these counterparts have
Speaker 8: bizarre and extraordinary parallels with some of the most famous
Speaker 8: and legendary serial killers in American and world true crime history.
Speaker 8: So let's go through just a few of those. But
Speaker 8: I wanted to talk about Anatotly slipco And whose nickname
Speaker 8: is the Honored Torturer or the counselor Ripper's talk a
Speaker 8: little bit by him.
Speaker 9: It is one of the most bizarre casy featured in
Speaker 9: the book.
Speaker 4: Different It's a case that I had.
Speaker 9: Never heard about. I had heard rumors about Russian serio
Speaker 9: curers who was filming snuff movies, but had never had
Speaker 9: a name before. And it's only when I covered the
Speaker 9: kids that I realized that this was the one. This
Speaker 9: was actually the Russian serial curios was actually filming uh
Speaker 9: his own murders. And the craziest thing about it is
Speaker 9: that it happened in the sixties, So there is a
Speaker 9: little bit of we have to cover. Is the thing
Speaker 9: that sparked his fantasy life, because it's really interesting. So
Speaker 9: let me get back to the book for the specific
Speaker 9: details you write it.
Speaker 8: In nineteen sixty one, while he was in the Far East,
Speaker 8: he witnessed an accidental death of a man who crashed
Speaker 8: his motorbike and he had hit several teams with the
Speaker 8: motorcycle and injured one and one died right on the spot.
Speaker 4: Tell us what he experienced exactly.
Speaker 9: So when this happened, he was sexually aroused, so it
Speaker 9: was the beginning of his sex life. And he later
Speaker 9: recalled the accident. He said the boy had experienced conversions
Speaker 9: in his death throws as the smell of gasoline and
Speaker 9: fire permeiliated. Yeah, what was really specific the boy that
Speaker 9: he had seen die before that this boy was in
Speaker 9: a boy scout uniform. So Russia, well, the Soviet Union
Speaker 9: had its own system of boy Scouts and they had
Speaker 9: a specific uniform with the tie and special shoes. And
Speaker 9: when sleeve Kore became an adult, he managed to find
Speaker 9: a job as a counselor in a youth club, one
Speaker 9: of the local chapters of the Boy Scouts, and this
Speaker 9: is when he decided to film some of his pupils
Speaker 9: playing re enactments war re enactments. So there were little
Speaker 9: short films where he told them to basically play, for example,
Speaker 9: the German invaders. Other kids would play the Russian, the
Speaker 9: Russian enemies, and sometimes he would stay executions, which is
Speaker 9: quite concerning, and knowing that those kids were some of
Speaker 9: the more fourteen fifteen, even younger than that, and he
Speaker 9: would actually film them a noose around their neck and
Speaker 9: staging fack executions. He would film them that, but soon
Speaker 9: this was not enough frame because he wanted to relieve
Speaker 9: this very first incident that he had a witnessed. So
Speaker 9: he would take them one by one and he would
Speaker 9: tell them to reenact those execution scenes, except that this
Speaker 9: time he would actually strangle them with the rope or
Speaker 9: drown them or kill them with ropes and several torture instruments.
Speaker 9: All this was shot on sixteen millimeters. When the police
Speaker 9: actually arrested him, they found those reels and they found
Speaker 9: out that he had killed we'll tell you the exact number.
Speaker 9: He had killed seven young boys between nineteen sixty four
Speaker 9: and nineteen eighty five. So what probably the most terrifying
Speaker 9: thing this murder case is the actually find photographs, photographs,
Speaker 9: stills of those snuff films online. And I yeah, even
Speaker 9: have heard of people who have seen those films. Of
Speaker 9: course that they suffered from pits after watching those films, sure,
Speaker 9: because they were extremely intense. But yes, some of those
Speaker 9: skills you can actually still find them. Slip Co was
Speaker 9: arrested and they found many uniforms inside the use club.
Speaker 9: It's definitely a very bizarre case, not only because the
Speaker 9: fact that he had this very specific fantasy life, also
Speaker 9: the fact that he was using the system and his
Speaker 9: position as a counselor of the boy scouts les victims
Speaker 9: into his own fantasy work. And yes, that's what really
Speaker 9: intrigued me about the case.
Speaker 8: It's interesting that he conducts these films and gets these
Speaker 8: kids to put a news around their neck, and a
Speaker 8: lot of them, you write, most of them have some
Speaker 8: sort of amnesia from the experience.
Speaker 7: They don't even.
Speaker 8: Really know what exactly happened, and then he masturbates over them,
Speaker 8: films them in all kinds of bizarre poses. You say
Speaker 8: that this occurred for twenty two years, he filmed forty
Speaker 8: three boys, but so he killed only seven. But there
Speaker 8: was you say that that urge that he had to
Speaker 8: relive that experience with the accident, and so then he
Speaker 8: would kill and dismember these young boys and pour gasoline
Speaker 8: on the remains and light them on fire to relive
Speaker 8: the fatal car accident he had witnessed. And that's when
Speaker 8: you write when again, it's always a cliche, the hardened detective.
Speaker 8: But when they actually saw the films that this guy made,
Speaker 8: they made an extraordinary statement in your book that you
Speaker 8: quote that there was no and in effect, what he
Speaker 8: said was there was no horror movie author that could
Speaker 8: come anywhere near what he had seen and what he
Speaker 8: had experienced watching, watching, watching those films totally.
Speaker 9: The fact that he committed all those crimes for so long,
Speaker 9: and the fact that his fantasy life was so specific.
Speaker 9: You also add this thing which shoes would cut their
Speaker 9: shoes in half because of this car accident that he
Speaker 9: had witnessed, he had seen blood splattering the shoes. He
Speaker 9: wanted to recreate this image of blood on Chinese shoes.
Speaker 9: It was extremely specific in terms of the psychiatry, psychology.
Speaker 9: It's a very unique case, very unique case. It reminded
Speaker 9: me a kind of reminding me of Jerry Brudos foot
Speaker 9: Fetish pod. But yeah, the fact that the detectives were
Speaker 9: so shocked by the videos themselves, it tells your own Yeah.
Speaker 8: You say that too, that they discovered the killer diary
Speaker 8: and where he talks about trying to attempt to try
Speaker 8: to control the urges, but that they overcame him. But
Speaker 8: he did say about the recordings that he made. He
Speaker 8: said he didn't want people to see the videotapes. He
Speaker 8: said the recording is disgraceful for the human race. He says,
Speaker 8: it can't be washed away or forgotten, and he said,
Speaker 8: I'm scared that other people will watch it. So it
Speaker 8: gave him some incredible kind of insight to his own mania.
Speaker 9: He's even said that if you ever watch those taps,
Speaker 9: we regret it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, it's crazy.
Speaker 9: But at the same time he was reminding them that
Speaker 9: he was they were actually arresting a deputy of the
Speaker 9: city council, So his teer was holding on his position
Speaker 9: as a respectable member of the Soviet Party, which is
Speaker 9: reminiscent of a Chikatiro was also a prominent member of
Speaker 9: the Soviet parties at the same time as this fact
Speaker 9: of being discovered, but was still clenching on his position
Speaker 9: as a respect from member of the community.
Speaker 8: She's amazing you mentioned Chatillo, and that comes up in
Speaker 8: this story as well as because very much reminiscent of
Speaker 8: the fictitious movie Silence of the Lambs and Claras Starling
Speaker 8: as you write that he was asked this killer was
Speaker 8: asked for his cooperation and his to help police in
Speaker 8: their investigation of Andre Chikatilo. Very very interesting.
Speaker 9: Yes, he was visited the investigators of the case. They
Speaker 9: were hoping that he would help them understand the psychology Chichio,
Speaker 9: but what he gave them could not be used for
Speaker 9: the actual investigations. So yes, it was us.
Speaker 8: I said, yen, Yes, let's talk about and discuss Sergei
Speaker 8: tak my mispronouncing his.
Speaker 4: Name, And yes, he talked the Pablo grad maniac.
Speaker 8: And you talk about in this case background as you
Speaker 8: do of all of these perpetraates. The one thing I
Speaker 8: found that's almost common thread through almost the twenty five
Speaker 8: stories is that many of these perpetrators in the beginning
Speaker 8: when they were young, they were sickly, they were timid,
Speaker 8: they were anti social or unsociable or bullied. That kind
Speaker 8: of portrayal of almost all of these killers seemed to
Speaker 8: be that they were in that unenviable situation or position
Speaker 8: when they were young.
Speaker 9: Yes, yes, Cash was also a victim of a bullying
Speaker 9: because he was physically weak. He had to undergo treatment.
Speaker 9: He had to see a psychiatrists because of it. So
Speaker 9: we engaged in weightlifting to gain some muscle, trying to
Speaker 9: gain some confidence. He really was involved into sports, but
Speaker 9: he had a sports injury, so he had to end
Speaker 9: his career in sports, so he chose instead to join
Speaker 9: the army. So Liter only eventually became a police officer
Speaker 9: and even investigating his own primes. So that's one of
Speaker 9: the crazy things about those kinds of cases. Yeah, he
Speaker 9: was extremely probably the syracuity thirty seven victims.
Speaker 8: You say too that he started off working for the police,
Speaker 8: but of course he gravitated towards being a forensic expert,
Speaker 8: which helped him in all his investigations and helped him
Speaker 8: compete with fellow his fellow colleagues policemen.
Speaker 9: Yeah, he had access to top secret materials and he
Speaker 9: would read them all, read all the cases. He would
Speaker 9: try to find out about how criminals usually get arrested,
Speaker 9: so he could, you know, improve his technique, his murdered techniques.
Speaker 8: You're right too, that did he was perpetrating, and he
Speaker 8: had left a gray hair on one of his thirteen
Speaker 8: year old victim, but the police ignored that evidence and
Speaker 8: framed an innocent person that didn't even have gray hair,
Speaker 8: you right. And again what we mentioned already about how
Speaker 8: that confession came about through a beating, and so despite
Speaker 8: them having thinking that they have this perpetrator behind bars,
Speaker 8: the killings continued, didn't they.
Speaker 9: Exactly, and then threatened the dismant to kill his own daughter.
Speaker 4: This is why he confessed.
Speaker 9: You can imagine police officers trying threatening to kill members
Speaker 9: of your family. So this man was terrorized and he
Speaker 9: had no other option than to confess. So, yes, those
Speaker 9: kinds of cases that they're really typical of what was
Speaker 9: going on back in those days in Russia concerning those
Speaker 9: type of crimes.
Speaker 8: You're right that this man was distraught from being accused
Speaker 8: of this murder of his daughter, and obviously the murder
Speaker 8: of his daughter contributed to this, and he committed suicide
Speaker 8: in his cell. And then after that the villagers weren't
Speaker 8: still satisfied. They released the anger on this person's wife
Speaker 8: and set her house on fire numerous times, and she
Speaker 8: lost her job and lost her career, and so again
Speaker 8: there was still he continued killing and nobody making the
Speaker 8: connection that this perpetrator was on the loose, as you say,
Speaker 8: for many conditions in terms of the media not being informed,
Speaker 8: the police not wanting to admit, and certainly any politician
Speaker 8: not wanting to admit that there was anything awry going on.
Speaker 9: They would never a knit they had failed because it
Speaker 9: was a very hierarchic organization. There was always the fear
Speaker 9: of an ecope in jail because you were bad investigator. Basically,
Speaker 9: this is why they tried to frame so many people
Speaker 9: for those models.
Speaker 8: Yes, you're right that over ten people were accused and
Speaker 8: convicted wrongfully accused and sent to prison of ten people,
Speaker 8: and it's extraordinary, and as you're right, not one policeman
Speaker 8: was ever reprimanded or lost their job as a.
Speaker 9: Result, exactly because that would be bad press for the
Speaker 9: system in those countries, in these community systems, it was
Speaker 9: also it was always a case of sacrificing the individuals
Speaker 9: for the.
Speaker 4: Party, the sake of the party.
Speaker 9: So this is why they even though they knew that
Speaker 9: they had the wrong suspect, then we do everything to
Speaker 9: have them in jail or killed before their trial so
Speaker 9: that they would think that the case would be caused,
Speaker 9: and even if the real killer was still killing again,
Speaker 9: they would blame it on another killer and not admit
Speaker 9: that it was the same person committing those crimes over
Speaker 9: and over again.
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Speaker 8: This Pablo grad maniac like parallels to the most infamous
Speaker 8: serial killers in America. To add to this incredible story,
Speaker 8: he attends the funeral and there someone recognizes him from
Speaker 8: the last attack where the students had been swimming, and
Speaker 8: he used it as an opportunity to attack this nine
Speaker 8: year old and she survived. And so soon after, because
Speaker 8: he was recognized, and because he was foolish enough and
Speaker 8: audacious enough to attend the funeral of his last victim,
Speaker 8: he was arrested.
Speaker 7: And then, as you right, soon after.
Speaker 8: As many of these perpetrators, almost all of them, they
Speaker 8: soon confess seemingly willingly and cooperate with the authorities. He
Speaker 8: draws an accurate map of where his crimes occurred. But
Speaker 8: then you find out, as we as you mentioned, what
Speaker 8: the motivation for all of this murder. Maybe not primarily,
Speaker 8: but quite a bit. The motivation for these murders was
Speaker 8: what concerning his colleagues.
Speaker 9: Oh, you wanted to get even at his coregian and
Speaker 9: show them that he was better than them. You wanted
Speaker 9: to prove them that by killing people it would it
Speaker 9: would it was smart than his college. That's a really
Speaker 9: weird way of trying to prove it. At the same time,
Speaker 9: that's what his logic was.
Speaker 8: He also compared himself to again Chickatillo and said, just
Speaker 8: like Chicatillo, I'm a beast.
Speaker 4: I'm not a man, I'm a beast.
Speaker 8: And then again, very much like these infamous characters in
Speaker 8: the US, the story doesn't end as well because now
Speaker 8: you read about this forum, the fantasy forum that these
Speaker 8: Russian girls and Ukrainian girls and women are interested in.
Speaker 8: It's called the World of Maniacs tell us.
Speaker 9: That was fascinating when I found out this underground community
Speaker 9: that they have in Russia, because we have similar things
Speaker 9: in Europe and the US, of course, as what hybristophelia,
Speaker 9: which is the attraction sexual attraction to criminals. Of course,
Speaker 9: when you look at people like Ted Bundye of rich
Speaker 9: room areas and the number of groupees that would write
Speaker 9: when they were in prison, it's something that I thought
Speaker 9: was only up the West. When I did my research
Speaker 9: on this specific case, I found out that there was
Speaker 9: this community online community with groupies trying to not only
Speaker 9: write criminals, but also trying to marry them. Some kind
Speaker 9: of weird competition between each other, between who will be
Speaker 9: the first to marry this or that very famous criminals
Speaker 9: that's in the news. It's extremely weird. In the case
Speaker 9: of a couch, it was a really younger woman who
Speaker 9: was at least thirteen years younger than him, and she
Speaker 9: even posted itselfies of herself on the murther's side with
Speaker 9: other fans of this serial killer. And she married him
Speaker 9: in jail, and she even had a son with him,
Speaker 9: which is even weirder.
Speaker 7: Yes, absolutely the story.
Speaker 8: Again, it shares some characteristics, but then really does outdo
Speaker 8: almost any other profile I've heard of a serial killer,
Speaker 8: so very very interesting serial killer, one of the very
Speaker 8: very fascinating ones that you have featured in this book.
Speaker 8: Let's talk about before I let you go, the Sergei
Speaker 8: Rykakowski or the Balashka Ripper from eighty eight. He operated
Speaker 8: to nineteen ninety three, and his nickname was the Hippopotamus
Speaker 8: because of his huge size.
Speaker 9: Beside of his huge frame, he would kill in the pouch,
Speaker 9: much like the chess boat killer. He would especially target homosexuals.
Speaker 9: He had a natred towards gay people because of his
Speaker 9: own insecurity, and he would also target homeless people. There
Speaker 9: was a lot of mutilation involved in those crimes, a
Speaker 9: lot of hatred, and I would compare his attacks to
Speaker 9: the crimes of Peter Sarcliffe in a way because of
Speaker 9: the brutality of the crimes and of blunt trauma mutilation,
Speaker 9: his embowlment. He killed nineteen people. Notable thing about this
Speaker 9: killer is the fact that he had he wrote a
Speaker 9: novel during the crime, a very strange sci fi novel
Speaker 9: that was used during his trial for the insanity pleague.
Speaker 9: But yes, he was convicted and sent to life to
Speaker 9: prison and he died in two thousand and seven of
Speaker 9: tuber closes like many Russian prisoners, this kind of disease,
Speaker 9: we are widespread in Russian prisons.
Speaker 7: You write it well.
Speaker 8: He claimed that he had a hatred for gays from
Speaker 8: being raped in prison after he had obviously raped older women.
Speaker 8: And what he also did was impaled people and used
Speaker 8: objects so like a ski pool, they used improvised items
Speaker 8: he would use. And also, which is not was typical
Speaker 8: with many of the stories. Almost all of the stories
Speaker 8: was that they would visit the crime scene again. These
Speaker 8: killers and also many many of these are necro files,
Speaker 8: including this Sergei here the hippopotamus necrofile. But also and
Speaker 8: again he shared this with a couple other perpetrators that
Speaker 8: attacked older women and had a paraphilia about that. But
Speaker 8: also wouldn't contain himself to just older women would attack
Speaker 8: young children, and many of these killers are included in
Speaker 8: this book and their heinous crimes because many of these perpetrators,
Speaker 8: and we didn't get into that, but there are many
Speaker 8: killers that concentrated on little girls, didn't they.
Speaker 9: I wouldn't go as far as to say that it
Speaker 9: was a typical of Russians here killers, but yes, there
Speaker 9: is a very high percentage of the molesters in the book. Yes,
Speaker 9: the fact that it was maybe easier for them to
Speaker 9: approach this type of vulnerable victims because they weren't cautious,
Speaker 9: that their parents didn't ward them out getting candy from strangers.
Speaker 9: I think so. You know, in Russia, it was a
Speaker 9: different kind of approach to crime, and crime did not
Speaker 9: exist for the general public. It was something that happened
Speaker 9: in the West, but not in Russia. So maybe that's
Speaker 9: why so many of those offenders did have such a
Speaker 9: high body count.
Speaker 8: Well, you're right too that there was no media to report,
Speaker 8: so they're very much unlike America, where the papers were
Speaker 8: ablaze with headlines and looking for stories, and they were
Speaker 8: hungry for headlines. These crimes weren't reported, so the parents
Speaker 8: weren't really to blame too. Much if the two year
Speaker 8: old was outside just standing alone for ten or fifteen minutes,
Speaker 8: because they weren't warned, They didn't have any idea from
Speaker 8: the police nor the media. It was a different time
Speaker 8: with no social media, so I had no idea.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it was different times. Again, it was a different system,
Speaker 9: a different way of thinking, a different approach to investigation,
Speaker 9: to police investigation. They did not, of course, have access
Speaker 9: to modern DNA research techniques. It was the old fingerprinting
Speaker 9: system and that was about it. So of course some
Speaker 9: of them were aware of what was happening in the West,
Speaker 9: they just did not have the resources, the funds, maybe
Speaker 9: the motivation because as I said before, there were bureaucrats
Speaker 9: there were not really involved in those cases, especially when
Speaker 9: the victims were homeless, or were gays, or were sex workers.
Speaker 9: The police just didn't care.
Speaker 8: There was a fair amount. There's a few stories where
Speaker 8: the killer has the insight, and the psychologists and professionals
Speaker 8: that interviewed them after their trials or for the trials
Speaker 8: themselves included that there was these specific traumatic events like
Speaker 8: we had mentioned where that person had a sexual experience,
Speaker 8: watching an accident, in a car accident where someone died
Speaker 8: but there was other things where a lot of these
Speaker 8: perpetrators did some service in the military. So whatever horrors
Speaker 8: that they witnessed in their service, or whatever horrors were
Speaker 8: allowed and condoned in the name of war, it seems
Speaker 8: that there is some contribution. Because the level of depravity
Speaker 8: and again the heinous nature of these serial killers, it
Speaker 8: seems to be that there has to be some contribution.
Speaker 4: Totally.
Speaker 9: The fact of working and being a military was differently
Speaker 9: a help for them, and some of them even killed
Speaker 9: on military grounds, which is unbelievable.
Speaker 8: And also you have the other Again, many killers will
Speaker 8: gravitate towards the police, and so you have two prominent
Speaker 8: stories in this book. For sure, certainly where policemen are
Speaker 8: the perpetrators, and that really helps their murderous careers, doesn't it.
Speaker 4: Definitely? Definitely.
Speaker 9: There were a couple of them investigating their own crimes,
Speaker 9: and they had access to a lot of resources, so
Speaker 9: they could actually know the mistakes they're done on several
Speaker 9: of the crime scenes, so they would try everything in
Speaker 9: their power to leave false clues on the crime scenes.
Speaker 9: So this is why they were so prolific, because they
Speaker 9: had the tools in the hands to just raise their tracks.
Speaker 8: Yes, certainly, and the conditions that we mentioned and we
Speaker 8: talked about today, the political and then the societal situation
Speaker 8: contributed to these reign of terror going on much longer,
Speaker 8: the wrongful conviction and in some cases execution of people
Speaker 8: wrongfully convicted for these killers' crimes. It is a shocking
Speaker 8: collection of stories that you have put together. I want
Speaker 8: to thank you very much for coming on and talking
Speaker 8: about this book, Russian Serial Killers Volume one. Maniacts you
Speaker 8: were a guest on this show True Murder with your
Speaker 8: book Gospel of Blood.
Speaker 7: For those that might.
Speaker 8: Want to take a look at other work and your
Speaker 8: publishing company tell us how they might find out more information.
Speaker 9: So I run a publishing company called Serial Pleasures Publishing.
Speaker 9: I have published more than a dozen books on such
Speaker 9: topics as Jonestown, Jim Jones, Richard Ramirez. It's a book
Speaker 9: Collegions of the Night's Stalker. It's about his fans and
Speaker 9: the people who used to visit him. There is a
Speaker 9: book on the psychiatric reports on Jeffrey Dahmer, so it's
Speaker 9: the total psychiatricst reports that were on before the trial.
Speaker 9: There is also a book on these correspondents several people
Speaker 9: before he was murdered in in prison. It's called Dead Dammer.
Speaker 9: There's a few other books which are similar in Vain.
Speaker 9: And of course I'm still working on the second and
Speaker 9: third volume of Russian serial Killers, which might become eventually
Speaker 9: a series. Maybe I will focus on South American killers
Speaker 9: one day, or Southeast Asian serial killers because it's also
Speaker 9: a fascinating topic.
Speaker 8: Absolutely, we look forward to the second volume of Russian
Speaker 8: serial Killers maniacts.
Speaker 9: Yeah, the second edition will be about edibles, so twenty
Speaker 9: stories or more.
Speaker 8: Yes, looking forward to that. Thank you so much, Nico Kloe,
Speaker 8: Russian serial Killers Volume one, Maniacs. Thank you so much
Speaker 8: for this interview, and you have a great evening.
Speaker 4: Thank you do, thank you you too, thank you, good night,
Speaker 4: good night,