Speaker 1: Traveling the world is an incredible experience. Finding landscapes that
Speaker 1: belong to other cultures and experiencing the way of life
Speaker 1: others live can often be invigorating and often life changing.
Speaker 1: But as we already know, when there is good, there
Speaker 1: also tends to be bad. With tourism, there is no exception,
Speaker 1: and today we talk about the dark side of tourism
Speaker 1: and a particular man who took advantage of other countries' laws,
Speaker 1: their people, and most heinous of all their children.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
Speaker 2: Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast. Warning.
Speaker 1: The following podcast and material intended for a mature audience
Speaker 1: listener discretion. We're back from Halloween week. We are, It's over,
Speaker 1: It's done. How was that seven days in between? I
Speaker 1: have a feeling that comes long for a lot of people.
Speaker 1: I know it is long for me.
Speaker 2: Curious if everyone's even caught up.
Speaker 1: That's true. Actually, I'm not actually expecting everyone to listen
Speaker 1: every episode every day, so I'm curious if everyone is
Speaker 1: by now caught up or if they're still going through it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it almost feels like it's been way longer than
Speaker 2: a week, right, now just because we were doing episodes
Speaker 2: every day.
Speaker 1: It does it felt like a summer vacation almost. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like it drug on if I'm being completely honest. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true.
Speaker 2: But it was no time away really like our normal.
Speaker 2: It wasn't normal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're back onto the normal, except we've been away
Speaker 1: so long now we're just brain farting. That's what's happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is what's happening.
Speaker 1: That is but we are back to the regular schedule
Speaker 1: of just Tuesday uploads and now that Halloween is gone.
Speaker 1: We actually oppose this question not long ago in Patreon.
Speaker 1: I haven't gone back and responded to everyone yet and
Speaker 1: started the conversations with them, but I have seen a
Speaker 1: lot of people commenting in regards to Christmas decorating.
Speaker 2: Okay, well we were chatting about that today. I had
Speaker 2: a brilliant idea.
Speaker 1: Well you did putting it because, I mean, Tommy home,
Speaker 1: it's hard to have a Christmas tree indoors, so you
Speaker 1: came up with the idea on the gazebo we put up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: have a Christmas tree in.
Speaker 2: There because we have power going to there, so it'd
Speaker 2: be pretty easy.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So what's your what's your vision for it.
Speaker 2: I would almost Well, I was going to say clear
Speaker 2: everything off the deck that we have there, but it
Speaker 2: would be nice because we do a little fire pit
Speaker 2: there too. You could sit there with the tree, That's true.
Speaker 2: So I'd keep that stuff there and I just put
Speaker 2: the tree kind of in the middle, and I'd probably
Speaker 2: just do lights. I don't know if i'd really do ornaments.
Speaker 1: Okay, we do have a bunch of ornaments in storage.
Speaker 2: Well, how would they do in the cold weather? Though
Speaker 2: outside in the element?
Speaker 1: I think they're cheap. They're all right, But we can't
Speaker 1: do that until December.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, we're December first people for Christmas decorating.
Speaker 1: That's our cutoff. You can decorate Halloween when October hits.
Speaker 1: You can decorate Christmas when December hits. That's the rule. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I know other people live by different rules. Like
Speaker 1: I am friends with one of our patreons because this
Speaker 1: is a real life friend of ours who joined us
Speaker 1: some Patreon DEMI. Yeah, though I haven't seen her response
Speaker 1: in Patreon yet, I have seen a personal post on
Speaker 1: Facebook where she erected her Christmas tree today. Really, yes,
Speaker 1: so clearly I know she is living in a lawless land.
Speaker 1: So DEMI shout out to you for doing what you
Speaker 1: want and live in your way. That's awesome, that's honestly,
Speaker 1: I mean, hey, do you I disagree with it wholeheartedly,
Speaker 1: but I appreciate you doing you well.
Speaker 2: Growing up, I remember it was always December first for
Speaker 2: us too, But my mom would often like say if
Speaker 2: December first was or how I don't know. Often it
Speaker 2: was like a week ahead or something like she we
Speaker 2: led her way for it to be a week ahead.
Speaker 2: But I know a lot of people if they do
Speaker 2: decorate too early, they get sick of it the decorations
Speaker 2: by the time Christmas comes, right, Yeah, And I.
Speaker 1: Don't know, it's like it gives you something to look
Speaker 1: forward to a little bit more. It's like, okay, it's like,
Speaker 1: get to decorate on December first, and then it's like
Speaker 1: makes like you say, that countdown to Christmas a little
Speaker 1: bit shorter. And yeah, I don't know. But the other
Speaker 1: side of the coin is it makes Christmas season longer.
Speaker 1: People like the Christmas season, so why not, Like I
Speaker 1: get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a joyful season.
Speaker 1: It is, well, it should be. It's supposed to be.
Speaker 2: It's supposed to be, but actually it's not. Always, especially
Speaker 2: if you're dealing with like a loss or something, it
Speaker 2: almost makes it worse. I'm being honest.
Speaker 1: And consumerism nowadays too is through the roof. So yeah, yeah, anyways,
Speaker 1: we got some patreons to think, we sure do after
Speaker 1: this thing and to go and I'm going to actually
Speaker 1: engage with them in that Christmas conversation see what their
Speaker 1: opinion is. But we have some patrons who signed up
Speaker 1: since our last episode. So we have Marie, Chris and Crystal, Melissa,
Speaker 1: Juice Kick, and Emily Alred. They all signed up over
Speaker 1: on Patreon to get that exclusive stuff.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much. Yeah, we sure do appreciate that.
Speaker 1: And if you guys want to join us on Patreon
Speaker 1: links down below. If not, yeah, that's cool, you're here. Hey.
Speaker 1: If you just want to see some behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: but not the Patreon behind the scenes, we have a
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. We uploaded a YouTube video like an hour ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's a really good one.
Speaker 1: Actually, go to the description of this once a podcast
Speaker 1: is done, you can check out that video where we
Speaker 1: show our chickens off. Well I do because Nicole wasn't home,
Speaker 1: but anyways, you get to see that. Regardless, let's dive
Speaker 1: into this episode, because that's what you're here for. You're
Speaker 1: here for TRR crime. Yeah, not chickens or Christmas discussion.
Speaker 2: And I'll just know really quick. We do have our
Speaker 2: like generic disclosure at the beginning, because you know, we
Speaker 2: talk about heavy shit here. But this one is kid related,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people were like want an extra
Speaker 2: heads up for that sometimes when we try to, so
Speaker 2: just letting you.
Speaker 1: Know, so I will tell you now that, yes, Nichol's correct,
Speaker 1: this one is child related. However, I do not go
Speaker 1: over any details of said child relation stuff. Okay, I
Speaker 1: don't mention any graphic details what soever involving children. Correct. Okay,
Speaker 1: in fact, no graphic details whatsoever I talk about in
Speaker 1: this one. I strictly talk about the crime that was committed.
Speaker 1: So just say, for example, this is not this case.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, for example, right now, say for example,
Speaker 1: some case somewhere where a child was murdered. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to talk about the murder whatsoever. I just talked
Speaker 1: about the child is murdered, and that's as far as
Speaker 1: I go. So in this case, children are victims, and
Speaker 1: I just simply say they are the victims. They were abused.
Speaker 1: That's all I really say. Okay, so if you can,
Speaker 1: if you got through this, you can probably get through
Speaker 1: the rest of this episode.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: We get it, you get it.
Speaker 1: Okay. I'm trying to give you a warning, but you
Speaker 1: don't need too much of one generally because it is
Speaker 1: light Still.
Speaker 2: It's just funny. How a lot sooner to try I do.
Speaker 2: I'm so bad for that. You're explaining something and then
Speaker 2: I'm explaining it. Just yeah, it's.
Speaker 1: Just gone out of control because like this is not
Speaker 1: a light case by any means. I just there's no
Speaker 1: graphic details to go along with it in this episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's good. Okay, Okay, So today's story, I first
Speaker 1: want to shout out Nick Crowley on YouTube. His video
Speaker 1: was the single best resource of information regarding this case.
Speaker 1: So I pulled a lot from his video, So thank
Speaker 1: you very much. Did an incredible job covering it, so
Speaker 1: help me out. Immensely awesome. But today's story, we do
Speaker 1: start off in an internet cafe in Peta, Thailand. This
Speaker 1: is the early two thousands, So two young brothers were
Speaker 1: there and they're having some fun on computers in this
Speaker 1: internet cafe and they're playing their favorite computer games. So
Speaker 1: the boys were thirteen and eight years old. They were
Speaker 1: sitting next to each other and they began playing the
Speaker 1: games and you know, their afternoon of excitement, right. And
Speaker 1: as they were playing the game, they noticed that there
Speaker 1: was another boy kind of peering over their shoulder. Now
Speaker 1: the boy was about their age, and he was kind
Speaker 1: of watching them play their games rather intensely. The three
Speaker 1: began striking up a conversation moments later, and they were
Speaker 1: talking about the games that they were playing. And soon
Speaker 1: the third boy began telling these two about a friend
Speaker 1: of his who he was on his way to go see. Now,
Speaker 1: he told them how his friend had this amazing computer
Speaker 1: for games and it was head over heels better than
Speaker 1: the ones in these internet cafes. So not only was
Speaker 1: this computer head over heels better than these other computers,
Speaker 1: but it also had a giant library of games to
Speaker 1: go with it so large you can pretty much play
Speaker 1: any game you wanted. Basically, it's like you play on
Speaker 1: this awesome game. Whatever game like.
Speaker 2: Just rocks nice.
Speaker 1: So the boys eyes of course glinted as their thoughts
Speaker 1: started churning. You know, the idea of this incredible computer.
Speaker 1: How amazing you you play these games on it? And
Speaker 1: they're just like, you know, fuck, yeah, this sounds awesome.
Speaker 1: And so, as the third boy continued, he actually offered
Speaker 1: his two newfound friends to come with him to this
Speaker 1: place to play some of the games on set computer.
Speaker 2: With his friend and the fact that he's like a
Speaker 2: young boy too, it's probably made them feel kind of comfortable.
Speaker 1: Hey, oh yeah, no red flags or anything. Yeah, it's like,
Speaker 1: let's go play right with another another kid my age
Speaker 1: sort of thing. So yeah, no questions asked. They're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is cool. So yeah, they were like, just let's
Speaker 1: go join it. So all three of them, you know,
Speaker 1: left the Internet cafe and they marched off and they
Speaker 1: were headed off in the direction to this awesome computer
Speaker 1: with the games.
Speaker 2: Yeah, excited as heck, I'm sure.
Speaker 1: Oh, through and through it was off to a nearby
Speaker 1: apartment building wasn't too far away. They entered through the
Speaker 1: main doors and all three began climbing flights of stairs
Speaker 1: until they reached the seventh level. There, they entered one
Speaker 1: of the units of the building and it was very
Speaker 1: dimly lit inside, and here they didn't find the superior
Speaker 1: gaming computer. That they were promised. Instead, they were met
Speaker 1: by a strange man, a man that had just trapped
Speaker 1: these boys by means of manipulating another boy.
Speaker 2: Oh geez, a man.
Speaker 1: Who would later earn the very eerie nickname mister Swirl.
Speaker 2: Oh that sounds disturbing, yep.
Speaker 1: So in two thousand and four, German authorities would be
Speaker 1: the first to learn about this very disturbing man one
Speaker 1: evening as they were searching through some items in an old,
Speaker 1: abandoned storage unit. Now, as they sifted through the items within,
Speaker 1: it's not exactly clear what the authorities were looking for,
Speaker 1: but regardless of that, they were soon about to find
Speaker 1: something extremely disturbing. Beneath the layers forgotten i junk, garbage,
Speaker 1: debris and appliances, they came across an old hard drive. Now,
Speaker 1: whether it was sheer, curiosity or something else that drove
Speaker 1: them to see what was on the hard drive is
Speaker 1: unknown and rather irrelevant, honestly, But when they did plug
Speaker 1: it into a computer and opened up the files, they
Speaker 1: were horrified with its contents. There were hundreds of photos
Speaker 1: showcasing photos from around the world, traveling pictures of places, landscapes, food,
Speaker 1: and amongst them, photos of child.
Speaker 2: Pornography, oh just randomly in the mix.
Speaker 1: Yes, So if you've made it this far and you're
Speaker 1: unsure on if you can carry on, this is as
Speaker 1: graphic as we go, just stating child pornography. That's as
Speaker 1: graphic as we talk.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, I think I can carry on then, Okay
Speaker 2: for now.
Speaker 1: So while I will not get into these details and
Speaker 1: these events that were unfolding with these children being harmed
Speaker 1: in the photos, it was certain that multiple victims were
Speaker 1: being abused and taking taken advantage of, including three young
Speaker 1: boys that appeared to be in a very dimly lit apartment,
Speaker 1: the very three that we were talking about earlier.
Speaker 2: Oh Man.
Speaker 1: However, out of all these images on the hard drive,
Speaker 1: there was one detail in some images that stood out.
Speaker 1: There was a man who seemed to pose proudly with
Speaker 1: the children, as if showcasing what he was doing. All
Speaker 1: the above being before, during, and after. But while he
Speaker 1: seemed to be boasting very proudly of his actions, he
Speaker 1: also took care to cover his identity the images that
Speaker 1: were shown of him and his victims. He had taken
Speaker 1: a filter to his own face, a swirl effect, much
Speaker 1: like you see on Snapchat or Instagram or anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now the swirl swirls the pixels of the face into
Speaker 1: an unrecognizable spiral, giving him the nickname mister Swirl.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I don't know what it was going to
Speaker 2: exactly be. But that's like disturbing. I mean, it is
Speaker 2: all of it's disturbing.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's even more particularly disturbing when you actually look
Speaker 1: at the images of this mister Swirl.
Speaker 2: Okay, but is there was there other like in within
Speaker 2: the travel pictures his face normal, No, they're all just swirly.
Speaker 1: The travel pictures were just kind of like landscape, foods,
Speaker 1: just general pictures of things. He's behind the camera and
Speaker 1: then when there it is involving the children and he
Speaker 1: is in them, his face his swirled.
Speaker 2: What the shit? Now?
Speaker 1: One detail he would often do with these swirl pictures
Speaker 1: is the center of the swirl. This is one eye,
Speaker 1: So you get this swirl right into the center of
Speaker 1: like his pupil, and it's just it's honestly kind of
Speaker 1: fucked up.
Speaker 2: That's really fucked it is, huh.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's like it's it's just
Speaker 1: a swirl, but knowing what's behind that swirl and what
Speaker 1: this person is.
Speaker 2: Capable of evil predator.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well complete evil predator like this guy. I'm
Speaker 1: telling you now, this guy is the fucking lowest of
Speaker 1: the fucking low, Like fuck this guy.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't think any of us. You need
Speaker 2: to finish this to.
Speaker 1: Know that, no, no guaranteed. So this was something different
Speaker 1: than most predators though, him actually posing in the photos, yeah, actively,
Speaker 1: like he's actually trying to tie these images in these
Speaker 1: events to himself without being discovered, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1: It's almost like he's flexing or provoking authorities like, go ahead,
Speaker 1: try and figure out who I am.
Speaker 2: Well, and then it's honestly, to my thought is it's
Speaker 2: literally just for him, because I think a lot of
Speaker 2: times people are doing this sort of disturbing thing to
Speaker 2: profit or to sell or whatever. But like, if he's
Speaker 2: in there with this swirly face, I feel like it's
Speaker 2: almost just for him.
Speaker 1: We'll touch on that here in a little bit. Okay,
Speaker 1: So authorities who found this, of course, began working trying
Speaker 1: to identify this man right away because this is not
Speaker 1: fucking cool, of course, and it quickly became apparent to
Speaker 1: them that trying to decipher this world photographs to find
Speaker 1: a mysterious individual behind them and who's who their identity
Speaker 1: was was not going to be an easy task. So
Speaker 1: soon inner Pol would find themselves involved in the investigation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we all know what INTERPOL is, right, you know,
Speaker 1: the world renowned worldwide organization for crime unit or whatever.
Speaker 1: They would join the investigation investigation that would later be
Speaker 1: named Operation Visco. Since so many photographs were found from
Speaker 1: around the world on this hard drive, now it only
Speaker 1: kind of makes sense that they're part of it, really,
Speaker 1: because it's all around the world sort of thing. So
Speaker 1: they began digging into other details of the photos, such
Speaker 1: as geographical locations, landmarks, you know, tangible details in the photographs,
Speaker 1: maybe writings on signs, street signs, that sort of stuff, food,
Speaker 1: who knows, right, And by doing this, they were able
Speaker 1: to identify some of the areas that the photographs were
Speaker 1: actually taken in, and thus identifying possible areas where this
Speaker 1: individual was operating out of. Okay, So some of the
Speaker 1: locations were Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam, and potentially South Korea, and
Speaker 1: Operation VIKO actually gets its name from Vietnam and Cambodia.
Speaker 1: So combining the to vicos.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you. I was really curious what I was like,
Speaker 2: I'll just wag ask.
Speaker 1: After Yeah, so there you go. It was actually a
Speaker 1: combination of those, which were two heavy areas that he
Speaker 1: was operating in. Okay, Now, though this was like a
Speaker 1: really good discovery on the investigator's part, actually narrowing down
Speaker 1: these areas that these folks were taken in the relevations
Speaker 1: didn't exactly make their job any easier by any means,
Speaker 1: if any thing. It really just opened the can of worms.
Speaker 1: The man was seemingly going from country to country and
Speaker 1: never staying long enough to get caught anywhere, and always
Speaker 1: leaving authorities behind. So there are several countries that he
Speaker 1: could possibly be in, countries that he was in, and
Speaker 1: where could he be?
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, that would make it way harder. And that's
Speaker 2: also very interesting. Hey yeah, that they're just going all
Speaker 2: over the place like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean like he at this point, because
Speaker 1: he's gone to multiple countries, he could literally be anyone.
Speaker 1: He could literally be anywhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was in the world basically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've said it two times already in the last
Speaker 1: ten seconds. Literally, but it's literally a needle in a haystack.
Speaker 1: Search for the authorities. They're searching for an unknown individual
Speaker 1: somewhere in the world. Wow, yeah, narrow that shit down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I mean, it's hard enough to find some
Speaker 2: one individual saying a big ass city, let alone. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I that is so daunting. I couldn't even imagine.
Speaker 1: Half the time. It's hard enough for me to find
Speaker 1: my own dog in the backyard, like where the fuck
Speaker 1: did she go? And they have to find someone in
Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, someone they don't know. It baffles me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have really no identification whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Zero. Yeah, so it of course gonna be hard. But however,
Speaker 1: this wasn't going to be the only evidence authorities would
Speaker 1: have to work with, because mister swirl soon would deliver
Speaker 1: more photographs. Okay, so the same swirling faced photographs would
Speaker 1: begin popping up online in dark corners of the Internet.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, which ultimately proved the worst case scenario to authorities.
Speaker 2: He's still doing it, He's still.
Speaker 1: Active, because I mean, they found this old hard drive.
Speaker 1: It could just be Hey, someone who did this. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's like a year spree or something.
Speaker 2: Right way back in the day. Hopefully they're like don't
Speaker 2: exist anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're done whatever. Yeah, heinous still but at least
Speaker 1: it's not continuing. But no, in this case, it's still continuing.
Speaker 1: So the photos were circulating through forums with known predatory
Speaker 1: predatory individuals of the like of mister Swirl and posing
Speaker 1: with of course his victims now doing so. Posing with
Speaker 1: one's victims being in the photos was kind of almost
Speaker 1: a badge of honor because generally speaking, predators don't want
Speaker 1: to be in the photos because they don't want to
Speaker 1: be caught, they don't want to be seen if the
Speaker 1: photos are found, it's like, hey, proove, I took those,
Speaker 1: good luck, right, but he's actually posing with them, and
Speaker 1: it was kind of like a badge of honor sort
Speaker 1: of situation in these forums, and he was becoming somewhat
Speaker 1: of a celebrity in these twisted groups.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, I hate the term too, badge of honor
Speaker 2: for this shit. That's so this is just that's just wrong.
Speaker 1: I know. That's why I said almost a badge.
Speaker 2: Of how No, I'm not blaming you at all, because
Speaker 2: it's exact like what he's doing. You know, he's proud
Speaker 2: of this, Yeah, I know, And that's that's just disgusting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like disgusting, isn't even the word that being begins
Speaker 1: to portray how I feel about this, But they do
Speaker 1: theorize that in this sort of situation with him kind
Speaker 1: of being a little bit more prolific and like held
Speaker 1: at a higher standard and higher tier, and all these
Speaker 1: gross ass creepy individuals liking what he's doing. Now as
Speaker 1: this quote badge of honor, it only kind of opened
Speaker 1: the world for him to access their libraries of what
Speaker 1: they have as well, because people are holding him to
Speaker 1: a high standard. Now it's like, oh, look what I did,
Speaker 1: Look what I've got, Here's what I've purchased or whatever. Right,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, yeah, kind of making him a quasi
Speaker 1: celebrity in this world.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: So, by now, with the accumulation of photos from the
Speaker 1: hard drive and photos that were brought up online, authorities
Speaker 1: had nearly three hundred photos depicting mister Swirl and his
Speaker 1: horrible acts. So there was approximately hundred photos in that
Speaker 1: hard drive. All all of them were of these type
Speaker 1: of photos. Some of them were, like I said, landscapes
Speaker 1: or travel photos. Right now, they had approximately three hundred
Speaker 1: photos of this particular type of apps.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yes, okay, and I just have to
Speaker 2: I feel like just sitting here being the investigators that
Speaker 2: have to pretend to be nasty motherfuckers, And I mean,
Speaker 2: they're so necessary and they're like heroes, but it's like,
Speaker 2: can you imagine that.
Speaker 1: Being your jaw pay having to go in these chat rooms.
Speaker 2: And talk to them and try to get information, and
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I just feel like that would be
Speaker 2: made maybe one of the worst jobs in the sense though,
Speaker 2: what you're having to see, but not in the sense
Speaker 2: that you're able to help and hopefully stop.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No, It's a gut wrenching situation. It's much
Speaker 1: similar to like, say, for example, firefighters, you have to
Speaker 1: run into a burning building to save a life. These
Speaker 1: people are metaphorically doing the same.
Speaker 2: Thing, but the visuals that they're having to witness on
Speaker 2: a daily basis, I can only imagine how brutal that
Speaker 2: would be.
Speaker 1: So as dark as this was the case of mister Swirl,
Speaker 1: there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's good, So the ever so cocky mister Swirl slipped up.
Speaker 2: Good what the fuck did he do?
Speaker 1: He forgot to hide his IP address when posting the
Speaker 1: photos to the online forums. Oh my gosh, which gave
Speaker 1: the authorities the exact city he was operating over.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they surmise that this disgusting excuse for a
Speaker 1: human to put into bed to least of words, I
Speaker 1: could has been flying to other countries to take advantage
Speaker 1: of their lesser laws to abuse children and then fly
Speaker 1: back home to Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada and share his
Speaker 1: material via the Internet.
Speaker 2: The fact that this guy Canadian, its just disturbs me
Speaker 2: even more. But also I'm glad that he was such
Speaker 2: an idiot. But what an idiot? Yeah, Like, I'm so
Speaker 2: glad he kind of forgot to take that off. But
Speaker 2: like you're stupid, Yeah, real stupid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's stupid for a lot of reasons, but yeah,
Speaker 1: many reasons.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, while they didn't know who he was, just yet,
Speaker 1: narrowing down their search to Vancouver was immense. It's no
Speaker 1: longer a worldwide search, it's a city search.
Speaker 2: I mean it's a big ass city, but that's whole
Speaker 2: that's huge win.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So while this was going on, the team that
Speaker 1: was trying desperately with the swirl photographs to like solve
Speaker 1: that puzzle, something happened. So see the swirl pattern in
Speaker 1: these effects, I gotta go with a little bit of
Speaker 1: detail with this effect here for a second. Oh, they
Speaker 1: only alter the photos. It doesn't erase any any information.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, seriously.
Speaker 1: So everything, every pick in this picture is still there.
Speaker 1: The swirl just changes the order it swirls the pictures.
Speaker 1: Some effects like a blur, literally like will erase ya
Speaker 1: get rid of details? The swirl does not do that.
Speaker 1: It just rearranges the pattern of the pixels to create
Speaker 1: a swirl effect.
Speaker 2: Because I've totally played with this in Phonoshop before, so
Speaker 2: I one hundred percent get what you mean. Yeah, wow,
Speaker 2: so you could swirl it back kind of.
Speaker 1: Eventually, three years after the initial discovery, the breakthrough happened.
Speaker 1: One of the individuals and the team made a connection
Speaker 1: with this effect to an editing software, the exact editing
Speaker 1: software that was used to make the swirl in the
Speaker 1: first place.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Because if you use one swirl in one app and
Speaker 1: then another, the swirl is a different pattern. So it's
Speaker 1: not going to swirl it back exactly the same Okay,
Speaker 1: so it's just mixing it the other way, you know. Okay,
Speaker 1: But if you use the exact same software and put
Speaker 1: it into that program. That's exactly what.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, I'm sorry, but that is brilliant.
Speaker 1: Yep. So this photo was taken by this individual, put
Speaker 1: into the exact same program, and the effect was applied
Speaker 1: once again, this time in reverse, and then in a
Speaker 1: matter of seconds, the face of mister Swirl was reverted
Speaker 1: right back to normal and he was revealed.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I'm shocked. I don't know why, but
Speaker 2: I didn't think I didn't think about that. Holy heck,
Speaker 2: clearly he didn't either.
Speaker 1: Nope, clearly he did not. So he's an idiot for
Speaker 1: multiple reasons. Another one.
Speaker 2: Wow, thank the Lord that he's such an idiot at right.
Speaker 1: So innerpol quickly made the images of the man's face public.
Speaker 1: They're like, we need to get this guy, like stop now,
Speaker 1: we need to face out there, and by public I
Speaker 1: mean world wide public good because he's operating out of
Speaker 1: how many countries, right, So that's what they did. They
Speaker 1: made it worldwide public and spread it across new sources
Speaker 1: around the world and the Internet alike. The hunt for
Speaker 1: mister Swirl was on, and it only took a mere
Speaker 1: few hours before his identity was discovered.
Speaker 2: Really okay, so did he get discovered before he even
Speaker 2: realized that his face was all over the place. We'll
Speaker 2: get to that, Okay, Sorry, I'm invested in this now.
Speaker 1: So, this so called mister Swirl was a thirty two
Speaker 1: year old man by the name of Christopher Paul Neil
Speaker 1: who was born in nineteen seventy five in North Vancouver. Now,
Speaker 1: Christopher was an English teacher for kids, no shit, He
Speaker 1: was traveling around the world to countries the one specifically
Speaker 1: identified in the case as a teacher while staying there,
Speaker 1: so likely meaning some of the children who were his victims. Wow,
Speaker 1: were his students.
Speaker 2: That I hate that? Holy what a piece of Yeah.
Speaker 1: Students that he would have, you know, students that would
Speaker 1: have trusted him and that he betrayed that trust.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So though Christopher was identified, they didn't have him just yet.
Speaker 1: Authorities learned that he was currently working in South Korea
Speaker 1: as a teacher and quickly sent the authorities knocking at
Speaker 1: his door there. But when they got there, he was already.
Speaker 2: Gone running for his life right right.
Speaker 1: Because of the publications. Like I said, this was worldwide
Speaker 1: news and when he was identified, you bet that was
Speaker 1: their real fucking fast too. Yeah, So his identity was
Speaker 1: discovered he saw it on TV and he bolted. Now,
Speaker 1: a photograph from an airport security soon showed that he
Speaker 1: had fled the country and was now residing somewhere within Thailand.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Weeks began passing and some sightings of people that looked
Speaker 1: like Christopher were reported. Nothing was confirmed, but a few
Speaker 1: weeks had passed, and eventually, on October nineteenth, thousand and seven,
Speaker 1: ty police located by means of transportation on a mobile
Speaker 1: phone Christopher.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, right on, they were on this.
Speaker 1: They were. So they knocked on the door to where
Speaker 1: the phone had traced to and when the door opened up,
Speaker 1: there stood Christopher and he was quickly arrested.
Speaker 2: Good. I mean it's not surprising that he couldn't go
Speaker 2: far really.
Speaker 1: I mean, the world was after him.
Speaker 2: Well, and he's like he would have screwed up, like
Speaker 2: he's he doesn't seem like he thinks steps ahead kind
Speaker 2: of thing.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. Yeah. Now, I did want
Speaker 1: to touch briefly on one thing, because now he has
Speaker 1: caught kind of the investigation is mostly over. It's now
Speaker 1: prosecution type stage, and all the evidence and stuff. He
Speaker 1: never did technically forget his IP address, when he posted
Speaker 1: that he had posted it from his brother's computer. He
Speaker 1: didn't use his own personal stuff, He didn't bother to
Speaker 1: clear it because he posted it from his brother's computer.
Speaker 1: What an asshole, right, So he was essentially if the
Speaker 1: target was coming in on him, hoping that it would
Speaker 1: have been framed on his brother.
Speaker 2: Seriously, Hey correct, whoa yeah? Could this guy get any
Speaker 2: more scum?
Speaker 1: Nope? Like I said, he is the lowest low fuck
Speaker 1: this guy.
Speaker 2: No kidding, Yeah, I mean nothing would even surprise me
Speaker 2: anymore about this guy at this point. Well, is there
Speaker 2: more shit?
Speaker 1: We'll get there.
Speaker 2: Oh cool.
Speaker 1: So, to start with, he was being tried in Thailand
Speaker 1: for assault on the three young boys in the internet cafe,
Speaker 1: which was the only crime they could actually prove took
Speaker 1: place in their country.
Speaker 2: Oh okay.
Speaker 1: So his trial took place later that summer, and on
Speaker 1: August fifteenth of two thousand and eight, he was sentenced
Speaker 1: to thirty nine months in prison and a seventeen hundred
Speaker 1: dollars Fine.
Speaker 2: Oh that's not enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah at all? No, And not only that, his stay
Speaker 1: was his stay behind bars was halved after he later
Speaker 1: admitted to his crimes.
Speaker 2: Wow, okay, you would almost advantage to be more yeap.
Speaker 1: It was then extended after that, after he was also
Speaker 1: found guilty of molesting yet another child.
Speaker 2: Keep it extended for life? Right?
Speaker 1: Nope. After only five years of incarceration in Thailand, on
Speaker 1: September twenty ninth, twenty twelve, Christopher was released and was
Speaker 1: sent back to Canada. Why now? As he flew back home,
Speaker 1: I'll explain why here. In a moment, he came to
Speaker 1: a stop and stepped out of the airplane, and in
Speaker 1: that exact moment, he was greeted by an entourage of
Speaker 1: police who were anxiously waiting his arrival on Canadian soil
Speaker 1: so they could arrest him in Canada.
Speaker 2: Okay, good. I wonder if he was expecting that.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming not I probably was, if I'm being honest. Okay. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: while this is so awesome that he's been sentenced in
Speaker 1: Thailand and would now face the gabble in Canadian courtrooms,
Speaker 1: I wish I could say I was happy with how
Speaker 1: it played out, But as we discussed so very many
Speaker 1: times before in this podcast, the justice system is extremely
Speaker 1: flawed in so many ways, and in this case specifically,
Speaker 1: I believe the world was let down.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, because there's no way that this person
Speaker 2: should be should be ever walking around.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll get we'll get to that, Okay. So the
Speaker 1: initial plan for prosecution of Christopher was each country will
Speaker 1: get their turn to bring them to justice, right on.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: So starting with Thailand where he was arrested, right bring
Speaker 1: them to Canadian soil, he'll get arrested, get tried, do
Speaker 1: jail time, Send him to the next country, get arrested,
Speaker 1: get tried, get jail time. Basically, so on and so
Speaker 1: on until he lives out his life kept behind bars. Basically,
Speaker 1: what like.
Speaker 2: Oh, hearing about this sort of justice system, Like it
Speaker 2: just seems like a waste of resources. I get that
Speaker 2: every country kind of wants their bit, but just lock
Speaker 2: them up in one place he just stays there. Is
Speaker 2: that me being evil? It's just because why we're flying
Speaker 2: him all over the place, like he did something really bad,
Speaker 2: Just lock him up and then he just kind of
Speaker 2: stays there.
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying, But at the same time,
Speaker 1: it's like he didn't commit the crime in Canada.
Speaker 2: Well, what he did in Thailand should have been life.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, I think he Almos should have stayed
Speaker 2: there forever.
Speaker 1: I agree, okay, but I don't know the laws and
Speaker 1: legislation in Thailand though, right, I know. But anyways, handing
Speaker 1: off from country to country, That of course, is not
Speaker 1: how it all played out. On October third, twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: not even a week after he was arrested on Canadian soil,
Speaker 1: Christopher got to walk free. What on the condition if
Speaker 1: he agreed on some basic rules. He was to never
Speaker 1: own a vice that connected to the Internet again, and
Speaker 1: that he would stay away from parks, schools, playgrounds and
Speaker 1: register as a sex offender.
Speaker 2: Wow wow, yeah.
Speaker 1: So, not even a week after he's arrested in Canada,
Speaker 1: they're letting him walk fucking walk.
Speaker 2: That is just whacked.
Speaker 1: Yes, Now, technically that's because most of the crimes he
Speaker 1: committed were not in Canadian soil.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, that's what I was kind of thinking. Did
Speaker 2: he do any of this? Oh okay, that's.
Speaker 1: Okay, shared the photographs in Canada, that's it. That is
Speaker 1: something though, that is But yet they still let him
Speaker 1: walk a week later, and it's like, you can't you
Speaker 1: can't have a phoneo computer, and you're a sex offender. Now, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not cool in my opinion. No, of course Christopher agreed.
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, okay, I'll agree to that, and so
Speaker 1: of course he agreed, and of course he reoffended.
Speaker 2: Oh man, that is just so brutal. That is so disgusting.
Speaker 1: Oh I am so fucking pissed over this. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: have no idea. Ten months later, Oh.
Speaker 2: My gosh, like this is I'm just pissed.
Speaker 1: On August second, twenty thirteen, Christopher was arrested in his
Speaker 1: home for breach of agreement. He was found with a
Speaker 1: phone and a laptop in his possession. Now, on those devices,
Speaker 1: he was found with child pornogas.
Speaker 2: Does he really?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not fucking surprising, though it's not.
Speaker 1: He was found with twenty five images, to be exact,
Speaker 1: two of which included images of him in his signature like.
Speaker 2: He shook, like he did it again.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming though I don't know. I'm assuming these are
Speaker 1: old photographs I mean, but new to authorities, because I
Speaker 1: can't imagine he would reply the same swirl filter like
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe, but but like.
Speaker 2: Who knows what he was actually doing in those ten months. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he totally could have been committing these crimes, not just
Speaker 2: like having them, but like doing them again very much.
Speaker 2: So oh that is just heartbreaking, disgusting.
Speaker 1: So Christopher had gotten these devices almost immediately after he
Speaker 1: was released after agreeing to never having them right, and
Speaker 1: was using these devices to access his previous creepy corners
Speaker 1: of the Internet. He was messaging other individuals and presumably
Speaker 1: sharing images back and forth. In one chat log, he
Speaker 1: was found to be talking with an individual and was
Speaker 1: quoted saying, quote the swirl liveth still the hatred.
Speaker 2: My blood is boiling.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: And the thing is is this motherfucker was probably just
Speaker 2: laughing his ass off, like I like, he got away
Speaker 2: with this. Yep, Oh my gosh. I ah, okay.
Speaker 1: I know I'm right there with this.
Speaker 2: This is unreal.
Speaker 1: I am right there with you. And I can't believe
Speaker 1: it took me this long to find this fucking case
Speaker 1: because this guy is he lives an eight hour driveway.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm surprised that I had never heard of
Speaker 2: him either.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's wild. So it was also found that Christopher
Speaker 1: had now been shown how to access the deep web. Now,
Speaker 1: the deep web is a portion of the Internet that
Speaker 1: is hidden behind kind of like closed doors. You kind
Speaker 1: of almost have to be like a quasi hacker to
Speaker 1: get in there. It's where one can move untraced and
Speaker 1: access back doors and websites dangerous, very creepy, dark shit.
Speaker 1: He can basically move across the Internet untraced now. He
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty in October of the same year to child pornography,
Speaker 1: and his sentencing occurred on May sixth of twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: at which time he received a prison sentence of three
Speaker 1: months plus three years of probation for breach of conditions,
Speaker 1: namely possessing devices capable of accessing the Internet, to which
Speaker 1: on December twenty fifteen, Christopher would be sentenced to a
Speaker 1: total of a mind blowing five and a half years
Speaker 1: in prison by a British Columbia court. Wow, a time
Speaker 1: that would later be reduced because of time served to
Speaker 1: fifteen months.
Speaker 2: That is just so disappointing.
Speaker 1: He was subsequently released on March twenty seventeen and is
Speaker 1: currently living in Vancouver with a court ordered restriction no
Speaker 1: different than before. No devices. You're a registered defender and
Speaker 1: you got to stay away from playgrounds and schools and stuff.
Speaker 2: Cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the same rules that he agreed to before and
Speaker 1: broke immediately after only this time, now he can move
Speaker 1: on the Internet untraced via the dark Web.
Speaker 2: Yep. That's so disturbing and so scary and makes me
Speaker 2: literally never want to go back to Vancouverever for some reason.
Speaker 2: Fair enough, Oh, that is so sad.
Speaker 1: It's so fucked up. Ultimately, Christopher aka mister Swirl is
Speaker 1: living as a freeman after committing these absolutely horrific acts
Speaker 1: on children and proving that he did not want to
Speaker 1: He could not be reformed, did not want to be reformed,
Speaker 1: though now he swears he is, but he was let
Speaker 1: go on the conditions he was going to be reformed,
Speaker 1: and he just immediately the Swirl liveth on or whatever
Speaker 1: the fuck he said.
Speaker 2: Well, and oh my gosh, because he's probably still doing something.
Speaker 1: Probably he's a true human piece of fucking trash. I
Speaker 1: hope he listens to this episode right now and he
Speaker 1: hears me say that he's a piece of shit.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because yeah, I literally even no words. The
Speaker 2: fact that he's just roaming the streets like it almost
Speaker 2: seems like this is a bad dream. That is so
Speaker 2: disturbing and scary. Yeah, holy shit, Okay.
Speaker 1: That's the story of mister Squirrel.
Speaker 2: Wow. I mean, what kind of job or anything could
Speaker 2: you even get after that having this on your record.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Is he of the same name and everything? I don't know,
Speaker 2: because well, he's probably changed it, to be.
Speaker 1: Honest, probably by now. Yeah. Wow, But he is a
Speaker 1: registered sex offender, whether he has changed his name or not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even sure if registered sex offenders can
Speaker 2: change names or work.
Speaker 1: That might actually be part of it. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you can. Holy heck, are you good? No? I'm
Speaker 1: not actually, I'm honestly right there with you. It baffles
Speaker 1: me that the Canadian government let him do that and
Speaker 1: let him get away twice.
Speaker 2: They had one job and they like failed it twice.
Speaker 1: They let a predator go mm hmm. They gave him
Speaker 1: a slap on the wrist after he did all those
Speaker 1: horrific things. Yep, and then he did it again and
Speaker 1: they just gave him a slap on the wrist again.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, gosh, because the thing is there, there
Speaker 2: has to be things like is he I don't know.
Speaker 2: They have to be monitoring this somehow right going forward
Speaker 2: for the rest of his life. But then there's probably
Speaker 2: so much opportunity for him to to get away with
Speaker 2: things without them knowing.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely.
Speaker 2: So if that's the case, then he can't be trusted
Speaker 2: and he just something needs to happen that he's not
Speaker 2: you know, like hot and able to harm people.
Speaker 1: He needs locked up. Yeah, he needs to be locked
Speaker 1: up for fucking life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because if they cannot guarantee that he's you know,
Speaker 2: good and like has changed, which, how do you even
Speaker 2: do that? Like, there's no way that this person should
Speaker 2: be walking around the streets because there's no way.
Speaker 1: He could one hundred percent be doing the same thing
Speaker 1: to kids out there right.
Speaker 2: Now because kids are everywhere. They've limited where he can
Speaker 2: go and stuff. But like kids are everywhere. You go
Speaker 2: to the grocery store, you go to like the mall
Speaker 2: or whatever, anywhere you're gonna go. Yeah, you go to
Speaker 2: the beach, like anywhere. Yep, Okay, this is fucked. I know.
Speaker 1: I can see you writhing in your seat right now.
Speaker 2: I know. I'm just like really angry about this case.
Speaker 2: My chest is probably blotchy. I'm so mad.
Speaker 1: There's very few things that make me not proud to
Speaker 1: be Canadian. This is one of the things that really
Speaker 1: makes me disgusted with being Canadian. Yeah, because I can't
Speaker 1: believe our government let that happen.
Speaker 2: Well, I know, and you know, it'd be interesting because
Speaker 2: sometimes I feel like justice system Canada is pretty soft.
Speaker 2: And I've said this before, but I don't know if
Speaker 2: it's softer than other areas or what. It'd be interesting
Speaker 2: to know that, you know, or could this. I mean,
Speaker 2: Thailand did let him go too, right, but he.
Speaker 1: At least served five years there, But.
Speaker 2: He did serve some time here, but not even five years,
Speaker 2: was it.
Speaker 1: No, he was sentenced to five but he served fifteen
Speaker 1: months with time served.
Speaker 2: Huh wow, So I.
Speaker 1: Guess pre prosecution. Maybe he was locked up for a while,
Speaker 1: but even still he walked free for half of that
Speaker 1: anyways too, because he he reoffended and everything.
Speaker 2: Like you know, sometimes I understand, like I get there's
Speaker 2: so many people out there that believe in rehabilitation, and
Speaker 2: I totally think in some cases it can work. But
Speaker 2: then the fact if you gave someone the opportunity to
Speaker 2: be rehabilitated and then they fucked up again, it's like done,
Speaker 2: like there's no more.
Speaker 1: It's not only that he fucked up again. He immediately
Speaker 1: immediately went and got these devices, got online learn how
Speaker 1: to circumvent getting caught again and bragged the swirl Livith. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he's not only proving that he can't be reformed,
Speaker 1: he's proving he doesn't want to be reformed. In fact,
Speaker 1: he's proud of what he's done, even after the fact
Speaker 1: I'm being caught and let go. Yeah, he's literally laughing
Speaker 1: in the face of authorities.
Speaker 2: Because how like they had that many photos to you.
Speaker 2: I think he says like two or three hundred or something.
Speaker 2: So he messed up that many times. Like he is
Speaker 2: an addiction. He like even he needs to be go
Speaker 2: in like a mental institute or something. Yeah, getting like
Speaker 2: help and like really making sure that he's can be
Speaker 2: on the streets because I question, Yeah he shouldn't be.
Speaker 1: But I mean he is in the streets right now.
Speaker 1: And God, I hope he has reformed. I so hope
Speaker 1: that he's a model citizen. I hope he's turned his
Speaker 1: life around.
Speaker 2: We can only like pray jeez. Yeah, wow, So because
Speaker 2: if he's not, like, Lord help us all. I sound
Speaker 2: very religious and in those last few sentences, didn't I.
Speaker 1: Nicole found God in this episode just like praying over here.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sorry to bring that episode to you guys,
Speaker 1: but it's definitely one that I wanted to bring more
Speaker 1: to the forefront. If you haven't heard about it before,
Speaker 1: you have now, no.
Speaker 2: Shit, I'm surprised that I haven't heard of that. I'm shocked.
Speaker 1: Actually, I was baffled when I first learned of it.
Speaker 2: I mean I actually was okay that I haven't heard
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 1: Well, not so much now, I guess. Thank you guys
Speaker 1: for being here, Thank you for listening. If you're still here,
Speaker 1: you're absolutely amazing. All of our stuff is in the
Speaker 1: description below. You've heard this feel before. Patreon's there, Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 1: you name it. It's all there, even Fearful, our other
Speaker 1: podcast with Jacko. Yeah, but I'm going to stop there.
Speaker 1: You've heard it all. You guys are awesome. What do
Speaker 1: you do. I've got a little bit of whiskey left.
Speaker 2: You got to go finish a drink.
Speaker 1: I made sure I poured a whiskey for this episode.
Speaker 2: I I didn't say anything, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: is that how I can judge? Now? If the episodes
Speaker 2: are real harsh, depending if you have a beer whiskey.
Speaker 1: You have to there's there's a preset what's the word
Speaker 1: I'm looking for, not a presept There's something else you
Speaker 1: got to judge first. You have to ask yourself, did
Speaker 1: Ben have a bad day? If Ben had a bad
Speaker 1: day and it's having a whiskey, then the podcast might
Speaker 1: not be a bad one. But if Ben had a
Speaker 1: good day and it's having a whiskey, the podcast episode
Speaker 1: is fucked.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, that's.
Speaker 1: Those are the standards there that you got to look for.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, all right.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you guys so much for being here. We
Speaker 1: will see you next week or talk to you next
Speaker 1: week and until.
Speaker 2: Then, Stay Wicked.
Speaker 1: That wasn't a very long, Stay Wicked.
Speaker 2: I know I'm getting shorter.
Speaker 1: Okay, give us a long one.
Speaker 2: Stay. Oh man, I'm not gonna get the pressures on,
Speaker 2: the pressures on.
Speaker 1: Stay.
Speaker 2: I can't do it.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, i'll do it. I'll do it, Stay Wicked.
Speaker 2: That was okay, it was okay, okay.
Speaker 1: That was better than you or it was