Speaker 1: With Laurent's segal And from London and Gerard Reid from Berlin.
Speaker 1: This is redefining energy. Today. On redefining energy, we're going
Speaker 1: to take a look at what's going on in China
Speaker 1: and the world of solar.
Speaker 2: Urn and China came to us in Unich in June
Speaker 2: where we were that massive exhibit called well, I don't
Speaker 2: even know it's called. We used to cut it into sala.
Speaker 2: How is it called now?
Speaker 1: Now called the Smarter Europe or Smarter e Europe. I
Speaker 1: don't even know. My god come up with these crazy names? Right?
Speaker 1: Inter solar is so easy, right, it used to be solar,
Speaker 1: but now you've got batteries and you've got evy charging,
Speaker 1: and you've got technologies in around inverters, battery management systems,
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. I don't know how many halls
Speaker 1: they were there.
Speaker 2: Around eighteen crazy eighteen olds and I think they have
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand visitors. Anyway, during the course of inter
Speaker 2: Solar chart through our friends Jenadan Gifob, you've been able
Speaker 2: to get a studio room.
Speaker 1: Yeah. We interviewed the head of Astro Energy and the
Speaker 1: head of the new energy technology business within Chint and Chin.
Speaker 1: Best way to describe Chint is it's the Chinese version
Speaker 1: of Siemens. That's what it is, big transformer manufacturer. There
Speaker 1: are lots and lots of different things, but I think
Speaker 1: it was great to be able to sit down with
Speaker 1: doctor Loew and have a chat about what was going
Speaker 1: on in China already.
Speaker 2: Now I want to complain a bit about the logistics
Speaker 2: because when we're arriving in the studio, there were only
Speaker 2: two chairs, so I sacrificed myself. You did interview and
Speaker 2: I was on the carpet. There was no chematization, so
Speaker 2: was it a swat team? That was really painful.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The thing that I concluded out of inter Solar
Speaker 1: this year is we're going to call it inter air
Speaker 1: conditioning next year because the cooling across the whole event
Speaker 1: was a disaster. I mean there was some halls where
Speaker 1: it seemed like the cooling worked, and then there was
Speaker 1: others that none And it was thirty six degrees outside
Speaker 1: and I went home early from the event because my
Speaker 1: hotel had no air conditioning. It was absolutely crazy. But
Speaker 1: it's a good story because this has been the European summer,
Speaker 1: right We've just hit all time highs and temperatures across
Speaker 1: most cities, and what you realize is the cities in
Speaker 1: northern Europe are not set up to have three weeks
Speaker 1: of thirty five degrees, you know whether.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's listen to your interview with doctor Chuan Lu.
Speaker 1: Well, welcome to the show. Thank you. Listen. Here we
Speaker 1: are sitting in Munich what used to be called Intersolar
Speaker 1: right and now it's called smarter e Europe, and both
Speaker 1: of us have been coming for well over a decade
Speaker 1: at this point in time, right, So maybe we start
Speaker 1: there and just talk a little bit about the sort
Speaker 1: of journey that we've all been on in this solar
Speaker 1: space and your reflections over this last ten years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were in Munich and I started joining this
Speaker 3: show more than ten years ago. Yeah, I think two
Speaker 3: pound twelve that was my first time during this renewable show,
Speaker 3: but mainly PV by that time. I think there's also
Speaker 3: a lot of European player for solo module and also
Speaker 3: a lot of come from China for module manufacturing, and
Speaker 3: the show is most likely for PVY panel show. But
Speaker 3: I mean after more than ten years, developments the player
Speaker 3: now more and the more turned from pure PV into
Speaker 3: a battery bass or hybridized renewable solution. So I think
Speaker 3: this is a global recognized trend. Also, today's extreme warm
Speaker 3: in Munich that also reminds us that they still have
Speaker 3: a lot of things to do. We still got a
Speaker 3: lot of distance to work to achieve a greener and
Speaker 3: the cleaner world, So I think that's also quite important.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think. Actually that's an interesting point as well,
Speaker 1: is that if we look in most northern Europe, we
Speaker 1: don't have air conditioning, right, But I think if we're
Speaker 1: here in ten years time, not only do we have
Speaker 1: an air conditioned room that we'll be in, but I
Speaker 1: think we have air conditioning everywhere. Right. The climate is
Speaker 1: changing in north of Europe.
Speaker 3: It's become a warmer, right, yes, I think so I
Speaker 3: believe there will be a new space for air conditioning business.
Speaker 3: So but we should do I mean maybe new version
Speaker 3: of air conditioning which is a more iro mental friendly way.
Speaker 1: But the good news is that if you think of it,
Speaker 1: if it's a warm day like today, what do you have?
Speaker 1: You have lots of sun. So actually tying in air
Speaker 1: conditioning into solar makes a huge amount of difference.
Speaker 3: Right, yes, right, actually we do see beer like solar
Speaker 3: system residential plus you know, you're probably today's live heating pump,
Speaker 3: electrical heating pump, so the plus best plus heating pump.
Speaker 4: This is a typical solution.
Speaker 3: Maybe future will be adding air conditioning to this system.
Speaker 3: And economically and also you'ron mentally should be.
Speaker 1: Both benefit from this type of system and listen back
Speaker 1: to the show here. I think one thing for me
Speaker 1: that's really interesting is just how big it's got. I
Speaker 1: think if we remember being here over a decade ago,
Speaker 1: there was probably two or three halls right in a
Speaker 1: and I don't know how many there is today is
Speaker 1: are ten or eleven? And why I said is it
Speaker 1: just gives you an idea of what's changed in the
Speaker 1: last ten years, which this industry has gone from being
Speaker 1: maybe niche market to being a mass market, right.
Speaker 4: Right, you're right. Previously only a couple horses.
Speaker 3: Now the exhibition area like ABC a foot occupied. I
Speaker 3: think that's also reflect our industry developments. So especially like
Speaker 3: same in China, when we step into this industry in
Speaker 3: the year two thousan six, if you tell normal people
Speaker 3: about we're doing solar there, I mean, natural reaction is
Speaker 3: like oh you are doing like solar heating. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: not PV right right, But today if you talk to
Speaker 3: anyone from China say we are doing solar, the definitely
Speaker 3: know you are doing a PV generation. So I think
Speaker 3: that's a total different level of understanding about renewable. So
Speaker 3: that also refers to why there are so many more
Speaker 3: and the more participants during this industry. And you are
Speaker 3: purslutely right that from a niche market now become a
Speaker 3: mainstream like in China. But this training point also caused
Speaker 3: a lot of challenges for us previously just not in
Speaker 3: enough supply of renewable but now probably it is over
Speaker 3: supply of renewable.
Speaker 4: So though, I think because that's a growing pain that
Speaker 4: we have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe we could dig a little bit more
Speaker 1: into China because the one thing that's for me very
Speaker 1: interesting is that if I went back ten years ago,
Speaker 1: I really couldn't name a Chinese business. Now, your own business,
Speaker 1: chint is, you know, one of the leading transformer manufacturers
Speaker 1: in the world, and obviously you're in all technologies across energy,
Speaker 1: but there's a whole hole of other businesses out there
Speaker 1: that are Chinese and leaders in the space and actually
Speaker 1: if the mons we go around the hall, I almost
Speaker 1: get the feeling that there's more Chinese here than the
Speaker 1: right Germans, even though we're in Germany right, which is
Speaker 1: a reflection of what's going on. So I'd love to
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on what happened, Why has China sort
Speaker 1: of taken the bull by the horn in this whole
Speaker 1: renewables energy technology space, and just it gives a sense.
Speaker 3: Of that we actually experienced a whole journey of these
Speaker 3: kind of developments, as I mentioned in the year two
Speaker 3: sound six when we step being only a few a
Speaker 3: manufacturing company for pvpanel and by that time I think
Speaker 3: the major market.
Speaker 4: Is only Europe.
Speaker 3: But today you see global wise renewables on the developments,
Speaker 3: so market size is like one hundred times computer.
Speaker 4: To the beginning point.
Speaker 3: So China start actually have any PV policy, It probably
Speaker 3: starts in.
Speaker 4: The year two pound twelve.
Speaker 3: So by that year China gum initiate the FIT scheme.
Speaker 3: But why I mean there's an fiit scheme in the
Speaker 3: year two sound twelve because in that year we face
Speaker 3: trading barrier like us by that time start doing anti
Speaker 3: dumping case against the China module and from Europe. There's
Speaker 3: an investigation about the free trade as well, and in
Speaker 3: the end Europe Unity decided to do a minimum price mechanism,
Speaker 3: so we call MIP mechanism. That's the challenge you face
Speaker 3: at that time for China suppliers. So that's the reason
Speaker 3: I mean push the Chinese government initiates the local mark.
Speaker 4: Before that, there's no fight scheme.
Speaker 3: Solar poor generation shares the same price as co poor guration,
Speaker 3: so incentive wise, there's no economic return for solar. But
Speaker 3: you should know we start doing this from two thousd six,
Speaker 3: so most of our products.
Speaker 4: Go to Europe, public go to us.
Speaker 3: But we also I mean one interesting things like we
Speaker 3: start doing solar park developments in China in the year
Speaker 3: two thousand and nine, so three years ahead we'll try
Speaker 3: to have the fit scheme. You could say we are
Speaker 3: very brief, but we do feel like we trust that
Speaker 3: the government from China central level going to initiate renewable policy.
Speaker 3: So this is why we are early mover to start
Speaker 3: develop a process. So after our project developed, constructed and interconnected,
Speaker 3: it's a year probably twenty ten eleven. Then the second
Speaker 3: year twenty twelve, China had a nationalwide fit program. You
Speaker 3: ask me why trying to move so fast, because I
Speaker 3: would say one major reason is, like most of the
Speaker 3: player in Sola, we were a private company. I mean
Speaker 3: at this that time, private means private investors, not stay
Speaker 3: owned or not. I mean government evolved. So we do
Speaker 3: our decision very efficiently and we do feel the market trend.
Speaker 3: So since Europe has the ft program, US have a
Speaker 3: tax rebate program. We believe I mean as a major
Speaker 3: player with one point four billion population, I believe China
Speaker 3: Garment is gonna initiate a program to promote renewable So.
Speaker 4: That's why we do this in head of the legislation.
Speaker 3: I would call this like entrepreneur brieve to move forward
Speaker 3: in the renewable sector. But of course I mean with
Speaker 3: that legislation, more and more players join renewable adventure. But
Speaker 3: we do face a trade barrier as I mentioned. But
Speaker 3: technology wise, we indeed receive a lot of support from Europe.
Speaker 3: So I mean from beginning we have all our European customer.
Speaker 3: They actually helped us by quality check by claims, so
Speaker 3: that actually pushed us from the other side, like you
Speaker 3: have to do your quality better, you have to move
Speaker 3: your technology better. That push us a lot so in
Speaker 3: order to grab more and more customers. So these standards
Speaker 3: the vary before Europe, it's way ahead of China. So
Speaker 3: these helped us to grow up faster. Chinese people are
Speaker 3: always quite diligent and we work.
Speaker 4: Day and night in order to move faster.
Speaker 3: So I think that that we'll get a very good
Speaker 3: beginning point since we have the policy to promote renewable much.
Speaker 4: Later than Europe.
Speaker 3: Then we will absorb all these their lessons about their experiences,
Speaker 3: so we can have a very nice nationalwide the ft scheme, really.
Speaker 1: Push it a lot, so that that's solar. It seems
Speaker 1: to me from the outside that the opposite happened in batteries,
Speaker 1: that actually you started with the batteries first, and actually
Speaker 1: you then kicked off markets like EV's Best before us.
Speaker 1: Is that what happened then, or am I misinterpreting the
Speaker 1: whole Battery best movement?
Speaker 3: I would say similar because Best starts later than ev EV.
Speaker 3: China is a really early mover. But I think for
Speaker 3: EV most of the players are also from private sector.
Speaker 3: Then I think their this is not based on a
Speaker 3: feeling of the marketing mind, but a feeling like if
Speaker 3: we want be one of the major players to produce
Speaker 3: in car. What kind of diffrctiation we should do from
Speaker 3: China because Germany is a car I mean famous for
Speaker 3: all these messidas, all the I mean all these car
Speaker 3: brand and the China has a lot of jv for
Speaker 3: manufacturing cars, but we don't have our own technology for
Speaker 3: super nice engine switch gear. So those Chinese entrepreneur are
Speaker 3: going to think about how we can defeciate ourselves in
Speaker 3: carn industry. Think they came way answer, if I do EV,
Speaker 3: you don't need the engine that could shorten our path
Speaker 3: to catch up. Luckily, we also have a quite nice
Speaker 3: battery industry, but their time because most of the cell
Speaker 3: phone battery for I mean consumer oriented, the products battery
Speaker 3: of producer in China. So this is why some of
Speaker 3: the Chinese brand like bid I think they decide maybe
Speaker 3: fifteen twenty years ago they say we only do EV
Speaker 3: car hybrid from the beginning, but later pure EV cars.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you a little bit about the entrepreneur
Speaker 1: versus stage role in China, because what I get from
Speaker 1: the outside is that what China does is unleashes animal spirits.
Speaker 1: In other words, there's entrepreneurs in every state and they're
Speaker 1: competing with each other, and there's a direction given by
Speaker 1: the Chinese government and people just run and whoever gets
Speaker 1: there quicker and bigger wins. Is that the way to
Speaker 1: look at it or how do you as an entrepreneur
Speaker 1: look at it?
Speaker 3: I mean, China geographically is quite big, so culture are
Speaker 3: also different even inside China. So most of the private
Speaker 3: entrepreneurs they came from southeast China. Why because sausage China
Speaker 3: is close to a sea, so you have like this
Speaker 3: kind of open culture. Second is like Celsi is a
Speaker 3: China has a less natural resource and has a less
Speaker 3: core industrial foundation in the past, so mostly is an entrepreneur.
Speaker 3: They have to struggle for live. This is why they
Speaker 3: are quite creative.
Speaker 4: To do things.
Speaker 3: And the government in these areas they won't interfere much
Speaker 3: on your business creation. But on the other hand, they
Speaker 3: just set up all the regulation, make as transparent as possible,
Speaker 3: and they can make sure that if the photos is rule,
Speaker 3: it's illegal. So this kind of environment actually supports a lot.
Speaker 3: But northern part western part of China is different. It's
Speaker 3: reached in for lampo in natural resource, so in those areas,
Speaker 3: more stay owned the company to do those resource busits.
Speaker 3: So I think that's the difference. So even in China,
Speaker 3: you see if you look at those EV company or
Speaker 3: renewable company, the mainly from for Ample, Shanghai, Han Joe, Shinten,
Speaker 3: these areas, these are the southeastern area.
Speaker 1: Okay, we look at China. I mean, for me, like
Speaker 1: China's fifty percent of everything, so it produces more than
Speaker 1: fifty percent of everything. And what it also does it
Speaker 1: installs fifty percent of everything. So fifty percent of world
Speaker 1: evs produced and bought in China, the same as soldars,
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. Talk a little bit about that
Speaker 1: and how that has come about, right, because it just
Speaker 1: seems so enormous that I'm trying to get my head
Speaker 1: around whether there's that was really planned in advance, this
Speaker 1: is what we're going to do, or did it as
Speaker 1: did it just happen through a mixture of entrepreneurship and Locke.
Speaker 3: I would say half half half. So it's not I
Speaker 3: think a planned from beginning. First of all, from the
Speaker 3: China government from central government to provincial government always do
Speaker 3: five years plan. So five years plan in strategic paper.
Speaker 3: You can follow what government push promote, but Meanwhile, you
Speaker 3: have to do your own job. So half is a plan,
Speaker 3: but the other half is based on this entrepreneur's decision
Speaker 3: decide where they should put their money. So since most
Speaker 3: of the entrepreneurs, they are very small guys, they learned
Speaker 3: from the world like it should be the trend from
Speaker 3: either side of the world, I mean outside of China,
Speaker 3: and China could be late mover, but we really do
Speaker 3: everything very efficient the first so we learn a lot.
Speaker 3: For Lample, those legislations how to promote renewable like fit.
Speaker 3: Then fit depends on different irridition resource, so the change
Speaker 3: previously it's in China the same fit, which I mean
Speaker 3: you can stand. I mean with different irritation level, same fit.
Speaker 3: It won't make any sense to do investment in those
Speaker 3: low irluation area. So then they classifying three a different
Speaker 3: level of fit. So Gum also changed with a reflect
Speaker 3: for the business man, so it's planned, but the plan
Speaker 3: is motivated by those feedback from the real business and
Speaker 3: also for Lample for the manufacturing govern also gives you
Speaker 3: a lot for support if you can do your own
Speaker 3: invention IP for renewables for evs to push you a lot.
Speaker 3: I think that's a major reason China why I can
Speaker 3: do things more efficiently. The government is always also supports you.
Speaker 1: Again, I'm going to maybe look at the numbers of
Speaker 1: installs in China, particular solar in the last few years.
Speaker 1: You look at it, the numbers are off the charts
Speaker 1: in terms of you know, when you're adding three hundred
Speaker 1: gigawatts a year to a system, you cannot grow continue, No.
Speaker 4: I don't think.
Speaker 3: So that's the two edge of the sward. So sometimes
Speaker 3: your gross high growth ratio actually will become the hurdle
Speaker 3: for sustainability. It's like last year China switched the fixed
Speaker 3: electricity scheme into a pure merchant scheme. Even for existing
Speaker 3: centralized solar, but there's a date retroactive or not. So
Speaker 3: for residential there's no retroactive. For industrial CNI, there's a
Speaker 3: non attractive effect. But for large scale, since it's a
Speaker 3: major portion, you have to follow this turning point, so
Speaker 3: that that actually pushed the installation to catch that deadline.
Speaker 3: That in the end, the why it make you three
Speaker 3: hundred gigwas but this year I see, but I always
Speaker 3: say it would be significant decrease with the installation in China.
Speaker 1: Since this go pure much it okay, which goes back
Speaker 1: to sort of something you said earlier on which is
Speaker 1: and I feel that when I'm here as well. It's
Speaker 1: not just in Chinese, you sort of feel in Europe
Speaker 1: it's the same thing, which is your best is going
Speaker 1: to boom, but solar is going to go through a
Speaker 1: difficult period the next few years. And you talked a
Speaker 1: little bit maybe about we could be coming into it
Speaker 1: where there's oversupply in the market, which probably and by
Speaker 1: the way, it's not just in Chinese producers, it's also
Speaker 1: in European solar developers. The whole value chain probably will
Speaker 1: go through a little bit of consolidation over the next
Speaker 1: period of time. Do you see that or what's your
Speaker 1: thinking and all of us and how do you deal
Speaker 1: with it as a company in this space.
Speaker 3: Different companies have their own strategy for us. Even while
Speaker 3: the solo is very strong deminding, we consider we must
Speaker 3: develop our own value chain from end to end, not
Speaker 3: just I do only manufacturing. There will be very tough
Speaker 3: if the market condition get changed. So this is why
Speaker 3: I mentioned from the year two thousd six we start
Speaker 3: doing manufacturing, but from the year two thousand and nine
Speaker 3: we start doing downstream project developments to do the value
Speaker 3: chain developments. Then later we also do OM and for
Speaker 3: development parts. Besides doing the large scale we do CNI.
Speaker 3: We are pioneered in China doing CNI as well, doing
Speaker 3: residential as well, so we do all kinds of deerments
Speaker 3: and the OM and we now also involved in micrograde operation.
Speaker 4: So we believe we have to.
Speaker 3: Extend our value chain. Probably part of the valley chain
Speaker 3: face challenge, but the rest should be fine. So this
Speaker 3: is our company, I mean, but some company may be different.
Speaker 4: They have different business stream which is not related.
Speaker 3: Probably this one big stream has a issue, but the
Speaker 3: other bin stream is fine. But I would say you're right,
Speaker 3: it's for that in the next couple of years, probably
Speaker 3: best will be very booming, but solar face challenge for
Speaker 3: the size. But after the best getting stored, then you
Speaker 3: have more baliness in capacity to release for a new
Speaker 3: round of solar installation.
Speaker 4: But it won't be as strong as before, but.
Speaker 3: It would be I think still a decent demand global wise.
Speaker 1: So does this mean that you use a business that
Speaker 1: really need to look at creating new markets? In other words,
Speaker 1: you need to look at places like Africa, South America exactly.
Speaker 1: So you go and how do you do that and
Speaker 1: how are you doing that?
Speaker 3: Latin America and for the data we receive this year,
Speaker 3: the growth in Latin America and the Southeast Asia is
Speaker 3: still quite nice. The traditional market now gets shrinked a
Speaker 3: little bit. We do see the trend that we need
Speaker 3: have to explore more based opportunity in those market. But
Speaker 3: I think the application of solar system in those market different.
Speaker 3: But that means you have to improve a polish your
Speaker 3: system solution. In Latin America, in Southeast Asia, there's a
Speaker 3: lot of off grade system or mean you have to
Speaker 3: price provide solar system at a very weak grade situation,
Speaker 3: so that that means you have to hybridize with a
Speaker 3: diesel as a backup. Previously, while the solar cost is
Speaker 3: very high, it's not possible. But today solar plus best
Speaker 3: to replace diesel usage actually become a quite nice economic Well.
Speaker 1: The one thing that's been interesting from our conversations, I've
Speaker 1: always been impressed about the fact that you've just you
Speaker 1: take risks and you go to other areas before other
Speaker 1: people did it. So, for example, you told me the
Speaker 1: story of how you set up this residential business in
Speaker 1: COVID Times could you talk a little bit about that,
Speaker 1: because I think this is ready. Just to give an
Speaker 1: idea the scale of what you did and how you
Speaker 1: did it, and then i'd also maybe finally just ask
Speaker 1: you to give us a view of how you see
Speaker 1: the business. We're going to sit here in five years time,
Speaker 1: what's the business going to be like?
Speaker 3: We're gonna be the residential. As I mentioned, China has
Speaker 3: a very big population base. Still a lot of people
Speaker 3: live in countryside, the villages. They own this loof, but
Speaker 3: their major target is like they won't have more income
Speaker 3: compared to you have a pure even mental preference to
Speaker 3: have zola. So we care to that point. We invest
Speaker 3: all the system bells, we rent their roof and they
Speaker 3: share the income with them, so they feel very happy.
Speaker 3: They don't have to pay anything, but they get written.
Speaker 3: So with that bas more actually spread spread out with
Speaker 3: more than three thousand agent in China to push our systems.
Speaker 3: So now we occupy about thirty five market share in China.
Speaker 3: So cumulatively well already install the more than sixty gigawats
Speaker 3: pure residential rooftop sixty.
Speaker 4: In US ten years.
Speaker 3: So even in COVID time, I mean China has a
Speaker 3: block like managed with different villages, then you can still
Speaker 3: work I mean really in that block. So we have
Speaker 3: this kind of agent's courage, so we still manage our business.
Speaker 4: But for the next five years, I.
Speaker 3: Will say the world is very dynamic, so everything is moving,
Speaker 3: including geopolitics probably I mean industry trends. So it's hard
Speaker 3: to predict, but we believe the direction all the business
Speaker 3: should be greener, more digitalized, and the more automatic. So
Speaker 3: these three directions we believe for next years. It's still
Speaker 3: a certainty for the directions. But how you do this
Speaker 3: it depends on your company's strategy. So we are a
Speaker 3: Chinese company for electrical equipment solution and the renewable equipment solution.
Speaker 3: We have the natural advantage to do greener, digitalization and automation.
Speaker 3: Basically we will work more close to for Lample data
Speaker 3: center combined with renewable I don't have the answer, but
Speaker 3: I do see the directions.
Speaker 1: Okay, Wison, thank you very very MUCHAI for coming on
Speaker 1: the podcast, and I'm looking forward to seeing you soon.
Speaker 1: Thank you well. Use out there and listen to it.
Speaker 1: So or what did you think.
Speaker 2: The interesting thing is that's generative from the inside, not
Speaker 2: all the study we do from the outside on China,
Speaker 2: and what's fascinating for me, it's the entrepreneurship and the
Speaker 2: animal spirit and that most of the time the government
Speaker 2: comes after they start developing the green shoots, and then
Speaker 2: the government helped them to scale. But if there were
Speaker 2: no entrepreneur in China, none of what we're seeing right
Speaker 2: now would exist. Behind bid, behind catl Bich. They are
Speaker 2: a group of fabulous entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1: And actually, I want to make a point there. What
Speaker 1: we think is our China is all five year plans,
Speaker 1: they point the direction everyone goes. But actually what we're
Speaker 1: sort of saying is it's not that case. What it
Speaker 1: is is the entrepreneurs are showing this is what's possible,
Speaker 1: and then the government is coming in and supporting that.
Speaker 1: And the best example of that as a solar industry,
Speaker 1: because if you go back twenty years ago around there
Speaker 1: was no solo market in China. Well guess what they did.
Speaker 1: They all went to Germany and it was entrepreneur driven
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and then the Chinese government came in
Speaker 1: and sort of said, okay, well we're going to help
Speaker 1: you scale your factories. And by the way, we're going
Speaker 1: to create a market. And then you certainly have the
Speaker 1: situation today where China is one third of everything, third
Speaker 1: of installs the solar wind, third of installs globally of evs.
Speaker 1: That's what we've got, but it's driven by this animal
Speaker 1: spirits that we have in around among the entrepreneurs across China.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, doctor Lu really embodies the regional economic
Speaker 2: and cultural differences between the South of China, which is entrepreneurial,
Speaker 2: resource poor but open to the world, building private sector culture,
Speaker 2: and that contrasts really sharply with the cold dependent state
Speaker 2: control north of China. So there are in fact two
Speaker 2: China and China works when the two walk together.
Speaker 1: I like that around it. It's also in some ways
Speaker 1: what we do, and whether it's North American and Europe,
Speaker 1: you also have the resource driven parts of the continent
Speaker 1: and you've also got the ones that have to trade
Speaker 1: because they don't have anything. Right.
Speaker 2: Well, it was a very interesting conversation and we'll go
Speaker 2: next year to whatever the name is, but we still
Speaker 2: call it Intersola because we see so much and we
Speaker 2: learn so much. Okay, Joah, that's the beginning of our
Speaker 2: summer series. So we'll have a lot of conversation we
Speaker 2: have had along the first half of the year. Another
Speaker 2: channel that we're going to use for the podcast, and
Speaker 2: they are very interestingly good.
Speaker 1: My friend, thank you for.
Speaker 3: Listening to Redefining Energy.
Speaker 1: Don't forget to rate the show and subscribe on Apple, Podcast, Spotify,
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