WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:08.039 With Laurent's segal And from London and Gerard Reid from Berlin. 2 00:00:08.560 --> 00:00:13.839 This is redefining energy. Today. On redefining energy, we're going 3 00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:16.519 to take a look at what's going on in China 4 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:17.879 and the world of solar. 5 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:22.640 Urn and China came to us in Unich in June 6 00:00:23.359 --> 00:00:27.160 where we were that massive exhibit called well, I don't 7 00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:29.199 even know it's called. We used to cut it into sala. 8 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:30.120 How is it called now? 9 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:34.880 Now called the Smarter Europe or Smarter e Europe. I 10 00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:37.479 don't even know. My god come up with these crazy names? Right? 11 00:00:37.799 --> 00:00:41.679 Inter solar is so easy, right, it used to be solar, 12 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:46.320 but now you've got batteries and you've got evy charging, 13 00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:51.240 and you've got technologies in around inverters, battery management systems, 14 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:52.920 et cetera, et cetera. I don't know how many halls 15 00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:53.439 they were there. 16 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:57.799 Around eighteen crazy eighteen olds and I think they have 17 00:00:57.799 --> 00:01:03.159 one hundred thousand visitors. Anyway, during the course of inter 18 00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:07.920 Solar chart through our friends Jenadan Gifob, you've been able 19 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:10.280 to get a studio room. 20 00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:13.760 Yeah. We interviewed the head of Astro Energy and the 21 00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:17.159 head of the new energy technology business within Chint and Chin. 22 00:01:17.560 --> 00:01:20.640 Best way to describe Chint is it's the Chinese version 23 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:24.920 of Siemens. That's what it is, big transformer manufacturer. There 24 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:27.480 are lots and lots of different things, but I think 25 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:28.920 it was great to be able to sit down with 26 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:31.319 doctor Loew and have a chat about what was going 27 00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:32.519 on in China already. 28 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:35.519 Now I want to complain a bit about the logistics 29 00:01:35.560 --> 00:01:38.280 because when we're arriving in the studio, there were only 30 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:42.519 two chairs, so I sacrificed myself. You did interview and 31 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:47.200 I was on the carpet. There was no chematization, so 32 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:49.519 was it a swat team? That was really painful. 33 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:51.879 Yeah. The thing that I concluded out of inter Solar 34 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:54.120 this year is we're going to call it inter air 35 00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:58.439 conditioning next year because the cooling across the whole event 36 00:01:58.599 --> 00:02:01.159 was a disaster. I mean there was some halls where 37 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:03.319 it seemed like the cooling worked, and then there was 38 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:06.359 others that none And it was thirty six degrees outside 39 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:08.599 and I went home early from the event because my 40 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:12.000 hotel had no air conditioning. It was absolutely crazy. But 41 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:16.039 it's a good story because this has been the European summer, 42 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:19.560 right We've just hit all time highs and temperatures across 43 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:21.879 most cities, and what you realize is the cities in 44 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:25.120 northern Europe are not set up to have three weeks 45 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:26.840 of thirty five degrees, you know whether. 46 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:32.960 Okay, let's listen to your interview with doctor Chuan Lu. 47 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:38.759 Well, welcome to the show. Thank you. Listen. Here we 48 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:42.439 are sitting in Munich what used to be called Intersolar 49 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:46.319 right and now it's called smarter e Europe, and both 50 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:48.439 of us have been coming for well over a decade 51 00:02:48.439 --> 00:02:51.120 at this point in time, right, So maybe we start 52 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:53.039 there and just talk a little bit about the sort 53 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:55.520 of journey that we've all been on in this solar 54 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:59.319 space and your reflections over this last ten years. 55 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:04.080 Yeah, we were in Munich and I started joining this 56 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:07.719 show more than ten years ago. Yeah, I think two 57 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:12.639 pound twelve that was my first time during this renewable show, 58 00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:16.080 but mainly PV by that time. I think there's also 59 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:20.479 a lot of European player for solo module and also 60 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:25.199 a lot of come from China for module manufacturing, and 61 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:29.520 the show is most likely for PVY panel show. But 62 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:33.199 I mean after more than ten years, developments the player 63 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:37.599 now more and the more turned from pure PV into 64 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:43.080 a battery bass or hybridized renewable solution. So I think 65 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:48.400 this is a global recognized trend. Also, today's extreme warm 66 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:52.080 in Munich that also reminds us that they still have 67 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:55.560 a lot of things to do. We still got a 68 00:03:56.360 --> 00:04:01.199 lot of distance to work to achieve a greener and 69 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:05.960 the cleaner world, So I think that's also quite important. 70 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:08.719 Yeah. I think. Actually that's an interesting point as well, 71 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:11.680 is that if we look in most northern Europe, we 72 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:14.039 don't have air conditioning, right, But I think if we're 73 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:16.720 here in ten years time, not only do we have 74 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:19.279 an air conditioned room that we'll be in, but I 75 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:22.199 think we have air conditioning everywhere. Right. The climate is 76 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:23.439 changing in north of Europe. 77 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:26.360 It's become a warmer, right, yes, I think so I 78 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:30.839 believe there will be a new space for air conditioning business. 79 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:34.959 So but we should do I mean maybe new version 80 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:38.800 of air conditioning which is a more iro mental friendly way. 81 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.360 But the good news is that if you think of it, 82 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:45.000 if it's a warm day like today, what do you have? 83 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:48.040 You have lots of sun. So actually tying in air 84 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:51.240 conditioning into solar makes a huge amount of difference. 85 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:55.759 Right, yes, right, actually we do see beer like solar 86 00:04:55.839 --> 00:05:01.800 system residential plus you know, you're probably today's live heating pump, 87 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:07.160 electrical heating pump, so the plus best plus heating pump. 88 00:05:07.480 --> 00:05:08.759 This is a typical solution. 89 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:13.639 Maybe future will be adding air conditioning to this system. 90 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:18.199 And economically and also you'ron mentally should be. 91 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:24.160 Both benefit from this type of system and listen back 92 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:25.879 to the show here. I think one thing for me 93 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.600 that's really interesting is just how big it's got. I 94 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.120 think if we remember being here over a decade ago, 95 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:35.399 there was probably two or three halls right in a 96 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:37.160 and I don't know how many there is today is 97 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:40.360 are ten or eleven? And why I said is it 98 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:43.120 just gives you an idea of what's changed in the 99 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:45.439 last ten years, which this industry has gone from being 100 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:49.519 maybe niche market to being a mass market, right. 101 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:53.560 Right, you're right. Previously only a couple horses. 102 00:05:54.079 --> 00:06:02.040 Now the exhibition area like ABC a foot occupied. I 103 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:07.279 think that's also reflect our industry developments. So especially like 104 00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:11.480 same in China, when we step into this industry in 105 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:15.519 the year two thousan six, if you tell normal people 106 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:20.800 about we're doing solar there, I mean, natural reaction is 107 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:24.959 like oh you are doing like solar heating. Oh yeah, 108 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:28.759 not PV right right, But today if you talk to 109 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:33.360 anyone from China say we are doing solar, the definitely 110 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:36.439 know you are doing a PV generation. So I think 111 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:41.759 that's a total different level of understanding about renewable. So 112 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:44.199 that also refers to why there are so many more 113 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:48.000 and the more participants during this industry. And you are 114 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:51.720 purslutely right that from a niche market now become a 115 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:56.800 mainstream like in China. But this training point also caused 116 00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:59.920 a lot of challenges for us previously just not in 117 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:03.480 enough supply of renewable but now probably it is over 118 00:07:03.560 --> 00:07:04.639 supply of renewable. 119 00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:08.319 So though, I think because that's a growing pain that 120 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:08.800 we have. 121 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:12.319 Yeah, and maybe we could dig a little bit more 122 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:14.439 into China because the one thing that's for me very 123 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.560 interesting is that if I went back ten years ago, 124 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:23.920 I really couldn't name a Chinese business. Now, your own business, 125 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:26.519 chint is, you know, one of the leading transformer manufacturers 126 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:29.399 in the world, and obviously you're in all technologies across energy, 127 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:31.720 but there's a whole hole of other businesses out there 128 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:34.240 that are Chinese and leaders in the space and actually 129 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:36.720 if the mons we go around the hall, I almost 130 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:39.399 get the feeling that there's more Chinese here than the 131 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:43.040 right Germans, even though we're in Germany right, which is 132 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:45.079 a reflection of what's going on. So I'd love to 133 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:49.120 hear your thoughts on what happened, Why has China sort 134 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:52.160 of taken the bull by the horn in this whole 135 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:57.600 renewables energy technology space, and just it gives a sense. 136 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:01.519 Of that we actually experienced a whole journey of these 137 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:04.240 kind of developments, as I mentioned in the year two 138 00:08:04.279 --> 00:08:06.759 sound six when we step being only a few a 139 00:08:06.759 --> 00:08:11.360 manufacturing company for pvpanel and by that time I think 140 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:12.480 the major market. 141 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:13.079 Is only Europe. 142 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:18.000 But today you see global wise renewables on the developments, 143 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:21.839 so market size is like one hundred times computer. 144 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:23.000 To the beginning point. 145 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:29.000 So China start actually have any PV policy, It probably 146 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:29.680 starts in. 147 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:31.079 The year two pound twelve. 148 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:36.519 So by that year China gum initiate the FIT scheme. 149 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.399 But why I mean there's an fiit scheme in the 150 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:43.919 year two sound twelve because in that year we face 151 00:08:44.200 --> 00:08:48.840 trading barrier like us by that time start doing anti 152 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:53.360 dumping case against the China module and from Europe. There's 153 00:08:53.399 --> 00:08:58.120 an investigation about the free trade as well, and in 154 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:02.440 the end Europe Unity decided to do a minimum price mechanism, 155 00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:07.200 so we call MIP mechanism. That's the challenge you face 156 00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:12.799 at that time for China suppliers. So that's the reason 157 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:16.440 I mean push the Chinese government initiates the local mark. 158 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:19.679 Before that, there's no fight scheme. 159 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:25.120 Solar poor generation shares the same price as co poor guration, 160 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:31.879 so incentive wise, there's no economic return for solar. But 161 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:35.799 you should know we start doing this from two thousd six, 162 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:37.720 so most of our products. 163 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:40.840 Go to Europe, public go to us. 164 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:44.799 But we also I mean one interesting things like we 165 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:49.000 start doing solar park developments in China in the year 166 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:54.159 two thousand and nine, so three years ahead we'll try 167 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:57.000 to have the fit scheme. You could say we are 168 00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:01.559 very brief, but we do feel like we trust that 169 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:07.440 the government from China central level going to initiate renewable policy. 170 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:10.600 So this is why we are early mover to start 171 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:17.480 develop a process. So after our project developed, constructed and interconnected, 172 00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:22.279 it's a year probably twenty ten eleven. Then the second 173 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:26.879 year twenty twelve, China had a nationalwide fit program. You 174 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:29.720 ask me why trying to move so fast, because I 175 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:32.360 would say one major reason is, like most of the 176 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:36.960 player in Sola, we were a private company. I mean 177 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:42.120 at this that time, private means private investors, not stay 178 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:46.320 owned or not. I mean government evolved. So we do 179 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:51.799 our decision very efficiently and we do feel the market trend. 180 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:55.799 So since Europe has the ft program, US have a 181 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:59.360 tax rebate program. We believe I mean as a major 182 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:04.240 player with one point four billion population, I believe China 183 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:09.960 Garment is gonna initiate a program to promote renewable So. 184 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:13.320 That's why we do this in head of the legislation. 185 00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:19.080 I would call this like entrepreneur brieve to move forward 186 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:22.759 in the renewable sector. But of course I mean with 187 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:28.919 that legislation, more and more players join renewable adventure. But 188 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:32.159 we do face a trade barrier as I mentioned. But 189 00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:37.039 technology wise, we indeed receive a lot of support from Europe. 190 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:41.080 So I mean from beginning we have all our European customer. 191 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:47.639 They actually helped us by quality check by claims, so 192 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:51.360 that actually pushed us from the other side, like you 193 00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:53.799 have to do your quality better, you have to move 194 00:11:53.799 --> 00:11:56.960 your technology better. That push us a lot so in 195 00:11:57.080 --> 00:12:01.360 order to grab more and more customers. So these standards 196 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:05.639 the vary before Europe, it's way ahead of China. So 197 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:10.279 these helped us to grow up faster. Chinese people are 198 00:12:10.279 --> 00:12:13.120 always quite diligent and we work. 199 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:15.759 Day and night in order to move faster. 200 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:18.559 So I think that that we'll get a very good 201 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:25.240 beginning point since we have the policy to promote renewable much. 202 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:26.279 Later than Europe. 203 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:30.279 Then we will absorb all these their lessons about their experiences, 204 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:35.639 so we can have a very nice nationalwide the ft scheme, really. 205 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:39.240 Push it a lot, so that that's solar. It seems 206 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:41.960 to me from the outside that the opposite happened in batteries, 207 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:46.759 that actually you started with the batteries first, and actually 208 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:51.840 you then kicked off markets like EV's Best before us. 209 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.240 Is that what happened then, or am I misinterpreting the 210 00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:56.879 whole Battery best movement? 211 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:02.799 I would say similar because Best starts later than ev EV. 212 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:05.720 China is a really early mover. But I think for 213 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:09.519 EV most of the players are also from private sector. 214 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:13.440 Then I think their this is not based on a 215 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:16.519 feeling of the marketing mind, but a feeling like if 216 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:21.279 we want be one of the major players to produce 217 00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:24.759 in car. What kind of diffrctiation we should do from 218 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:29.360 China because Germany is a car I mean famous for 219 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:33.519 all these messidas, all the I mean all these car 220 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.240 brand and the China has a lot of jv for 221 00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:40.519 manufacturing cars, but we don't have our own technology for 222 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:47.320 super nice engine switch gear. So those Chinese entrepreneur are 223 00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:51.080 going to think about how we can defeciate ourselves in 224 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:55.200 carn industry. Think they came way answer, if I do EV, 225 00:13:55.879 --> 00:13:59.919 you don't need the engine that could shorten our path 226 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:04.000 to catch up. Luckily, we also have a quite nice 227 00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:07.840 battery industry, but their time because most of the cell 228 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:12.320 phone battery for I mean consumer oriented, the products battery 229 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:15.200 of producer in China. So this is why some of 230 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:19.960 the Chinese brand like bid I think they decide maybe 231 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:23.759 fifteen twenty years ago they say we only do EV 232 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:28.960 car hybrid from the beginning, but later pure EV cars. 233 00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:32.679 Can I ask you a little bit about the entrepreneur 234 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:36.919 versus stage role in China, because what I get from 235 00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:41.559 the outside is that what China does is unleashes animal spirits. 236 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:44.679 In other words, there's entrepreneurs in every state and they're 237 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:47.840 competing with each other, and there's a direction given by 238 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:52.080 the Chinese government and people just run and whoever gets 239 00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:55.600 there quicker and bigger wins. Is that the way to 240 00:14:55.639 --> 00:14:58.759 look at it or how do you as an entrepreneur 241 00:14:58.840 --> 00:14:59.200 look at it? 242 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.519 I mean, China geographically is quite big, so culture are 243 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:07.320 also different even inside China. So most of the private 244 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:14.840 entrepreneurs they came from southeast China. Why because sausage China 245 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:17.960 is close to a sea, so you have like this 246 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:21.759 kind of open culture. Second is like Celsi is a 247 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:26.799 China has a less natural resource and has a less 248 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:32.919 core industrial foundation in the past, so mostly is an entrepreneur. 249 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:37.200 They have to struggle for live. This is why they 250 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:38.919 are quite creative. 251 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:39.759 To do things. 252 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:44.559 And the government in these areas they won't interfere much 253 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:50.000 on your business creation. But on the other hand, they 254 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:55.200 just set up all the regulation, make as transparent as possible, 255 00:15:56.279 --> 00:16:00.320 and they can make sure that if the photos is rule, 256 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:06.159 it's illegal. So this kind of environment actually supports a lot. 257 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:10.279 But northern part western part of China is different. It's 258 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:15.279 reached in for lampo in natural resource, so in those areas, 259 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:19.320 more stay owned the company to do those resource busits. 260 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:24.159 So I think that's the difference. So even in China, 261 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:28.039 you see if you look at those EV company or 262 00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:33.159 renewable company, the mainly from for Ample, Shanghai, Han Joe, Shinten, 263 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:36.799 these areas, these are the southeastern area. 264 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.039 Okay, we look at China. I mean, for me, like 265 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:44.879 China's fifty percent of everything, so it produces more than 266 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:50.039 fifty percent of everything. And what it also does it 267 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:53.080 installs fifty percent of everything. So fifty percent of world 268 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:58.240 evs produced and bought in China, the same as soldars, 269 00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:01.120 et cetera, et cetera. Talk a little bit about that 270 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:04.279 and how that has come about, right, because it just 271 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:07.880 seems so enormous that I'm trying to get my head 272 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:11.480 around whether there's that was really planned in advance, this 273 00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:13.880 is what we're going to do, or did it as 274 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:18.680 did it just happen through a mixture of entrepreneurship and Locke. 275 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:22.599 I would say half half half. So it's not I 276 00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:25.400 think a planned from beginning. First of all, from the 277 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:29.960 China government from central government to provincial government always do 278 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:34.240 five years plan. So five years plan in strategic paper. 279 00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:39.960 You can follow what government push promote, but Meanwhile, you 280 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:43.359 have to do your own job. So half is a plan, 281 00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:47.279 but the other half is based on this entrepreneur's decision 282 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:51.920 decide where they should put their money. So since most 283 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:55.319 of the entrepreneurs, they are very small guys, they learned 284 00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:57.960 from the world like it should be the trend from 285 00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:00.799 either side of the world, I mean outside of China, 286 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:06.160 and China could be late mover, but we really do 287 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:09.519 everything very efficient the first so we learn a lot. 288 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:15.160 For Lample, those legislations how to promote renewable like fit. 289 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:20.680 Then fit depends on different irridition resource, so the change 290 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:24.759 previously it's in China the same fit, which I mean 291 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:29.319 you can stand. I mean with different irritation level, same fit. 292 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:32.519 It won't make any sense to do investment in those 293 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:37.000 low irluation area. So then they classifying three a different 294 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:40.799 level of fit. So Gum also changed with a reflect 295 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:44.319 for the business man, so it's planned, but the plan 296 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:49.680 is motivated by those feedback from the real business and 297 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:53.440 also for Lample for the manufacturing govern also gives you 298 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:56.799 a lot for support if you can do your own 299 00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:01.920 invention IP for renewables for evs to push you a lot. 300 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:05.200 I think that's a major reason China why I can 301 00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:11.200 do things more efficiently. The government is always also supports you. 302 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:13.119 Again, I'm going to maybe look at the numbers of 303 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:16.319 installs in China, particular solar in the last few years. 304 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:19.920 You look at it, the numbers are off the charts 305 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:22.119 in terms of you know, when you're adding three hundred 306 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:26.400 gigawatts a year to a system, you cannot grow continue, No. 307 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:26.960 I don't think. 308 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:31.240 So that's the two edge of the sward. So sometimes 309 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:36.640 your gross high growth ratio actually will become the hurdle 310 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:43.000 for sustainability. It's like last year China switched the fixed 311 00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:48.599 electricity scheme into a pure merchant scheme. Even for existing 312 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:54.119 centralized solar, but there's a date retroactive or not. So 313 00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:59.160 for residential there's no retroactive. For industrial CNI, there's a 314 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:04.200 non attractive effect. But for large scale, since it's a 315 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:08.480 major portion, you have to follow this turning point, so 316 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:13.519 that that actually pushed the installation to catch that deadline. 317 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:16.319 That in the end, the why it make you three 318 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:19.680 hundred gigwas but this year I see, but I always 319 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:23.440 say it would be significant decrease with the installation in China. 320 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:27.000 Since this go pure much it okay, which goes back 321 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:29.119 to sort of something you said earlier on which is 322 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:31.559 and I feel that when I'm here as well. It's 323 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:33.480 not just in Chinese, you sort of feel in Europe 324 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:35.720 it's the same thing, which is your best is going 325 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.200 to boom, but solar is going to go through a 326 00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:41.359 difficult period the next few years. And you talked a 327 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:44.519 little bit maybe about we could be coming into it 328 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:47.440 where there's oversupply in the market, which probably and by 329 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:50.440 the way, it's not just in Chinese producers, it's also 330 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:54.680 in European solar developers. The whole value chain probably will 331 00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:57.319 go through a little bit of consolidation over the next 332 00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:59.880 period of time. Do you see that or what's your 333 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:02.440 thinking and all of us and how do you deal 334 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.440 with it as a company in this space. 335 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:09.039 Different companies have their own strategy for us. Even while 336 00:21:09.079 --> 00:21:14.000 the solo is very strong deminding, we consider we must 337 00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:18.640 develop our own value chain from end to end, not 338 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.839 just I do only manufacturing. There will be very tough 339 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:27.000 if the market condition get changed. So this is why 340 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:30.079 I mentioned from the year two thousd six we start 341 00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:33.240 doing manufacturing, but from the year two thousand and nine 342 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:36.480 we start doing downstream project developments to do the value 343 00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:40.720 chain developments. Then later we also do OM and for 344 00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:45.440 development parts. Besides doing the large scale we do CNI. 345 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:48.640 We are pioneered in China doing CNI as well, doing 346 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:51.720 residential as well, so we do all kinds of deerments 347 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:57.000 and the OM and we now also involved in micrograde operation. 348 00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:00.599 So we believe we have to. 349 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.960 Extend our value chain. Probably part of the valley chain 350 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:09.359 face challenge, but the rest should be fine. So this 351 00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:12.799 is our company, I mean, but some company may be different. 352 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:16.400 They have different business stream which is not related. 353 00:22:16.599 --> 00:22:19.839 Probably this one big stream has a issue, but the 354 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:23.799 other bin stream is fine. But I would say you're right, 355 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:26.920 it's for that in the next couple of years, probably 356 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:31.960 best will be very booming, but solar face challenge for 357 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:36.960 the size. But after the best getting stored, then you 358 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:41.240 have more baliness in capacity to release for a new 359 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:42.559 round of solar installation. 360 00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:46.039 But it won't be as strong as before, but. 361 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:49.480 It would be I think still a decent demand global wise. 362 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:52.200 So does this mean that you use a business that 363 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:54.960 really need to look at creating new markets? In other words, 364 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:59.559 you need to look at places like Africa, South America exactly. 365 00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:01.759 So you go and how do you do that and 366 00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:02.599 how are you doing that? 367 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.920 Latin America and for the data we receive this year, 368 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:11.880 the growth in Latin America and the Southeast Asia is 369 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.880 still quite nice. The traditional market now gets shrinked a 370 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:19.200 little bit. We do see the trend that we need 371 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:24.079 have to explore more based opportunity in those market. But 372 00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:28.519 I think the application of solar system in those market different. 373 00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:32.000 But that means you have to improve a polish your 374 00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:36.599 system solution. In Latin America, in Southeast Asia, there's a 375 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:40.559 lot of off grade system or mean you have to 376 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:45.240 price provide solar system at a very weak grade situation, 377 00:23:46.119 --> 00:23:49.119 so that that means you have to hybridize with a 378 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:53.839 diesel as a backup. Previously, while the solar cost is 379 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:58.759 very high, it's not possible. But today solar plus best 380 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:05.279 to replace diesel usage actually become a quite nice economic Well. 381 00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:08.359 The one thing that's been interesting from our conversations, I've 382 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.599 always been impressed about the fact that you've just you 383 00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:13.839 take risks and you go to other areas before other 384 00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:16.759 people did it. So, for example, you told me the 385 00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:20.000 story of how you set up this residential business in 386 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:23.359 COVID Times could you talk a little bit about that, 387 00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:24.880 because I think this is ready. Just to give an 388 00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:27.640 idea the scale of what you did and how you 389 00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:30.880 did it, and then i'd also maybe finally just ask 390 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:32.359 you to give us a view of how you see 391 00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:34.119 the business. We're going to sit here in five years time, 392 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:35.359 what's the business going to be like? 393 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:39.119 We're gonna be the residential. As I mentioned, China has 394 00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:42.440 a very big population base. Still a lot of people 395 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:47.319 live in countryside, the villages. They own this loof, but 396 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:51.200 their major target is like they won't have more income 397 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:55.359 compared to you have a pure even mental preference to 398 00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:59.079 have zola. So we care to that point. We invest 399 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.440 all the system bells, we rent their roof and they 400 00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:05.640 share the income with them, so they feel very happy. 401 00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:07.880