Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Hardwood Knox stickos.
Speaker 2: I am dem Valley coming at you with the one,
the only, the certified, fantabulous, mister Grant Hughes, it's another
NBA trade deadline primer time. We are on to the
reigning champion Oklahoma City Thunder, who quite frankly, might as
well just blow it up at this point because they
seem so human. Has nothing to do with injuries whatsoever.
Speaker 1: They are screwed. Grant, you have anything else or you
want to take us out of here.
Speaker 3: I'm just excited to talk about the Thunder as sellers
since they've lost two home games in a row for
the first time in several years.
Speaker 1: November twenty twenty three. That's nuts.
Speaker 3: Sometimes the cor just doesn't have it, you know, and
it's it's better to end it too soon than too late.
Speaker 2: Honestly, Shae for Cat, and like, let's just they need
a big man clearly who's healthier.
Speaker 1: So Shae for Cat. Let's be sure, it's.
Speaker 3: A change of scenerything. I think everybody could really benefit
from that.
Speaker 2: Let's get into their trade deadline vitals. So for Okase,
they are somehow they're a million dollars below the Tacks.
They are twenty three point seven million dollars into the
second apron, so file that away if you are thinking
about moves that they might make, but they're protected to
be twenty three point seven million in the second apron
for next year. That includes guaranteeing the contracts for Isaiah Hartenstein,
Lou Dort, and Kenrich Williams. It does not include any
of the inbound rookies that they would have. Speaking of rookies, Grant,
I don't know if you've heard, but the Thunder might
have some extra first round picks. They have all of
their own, and then let's go through it year by year.
In twenty twenty six, they also will get the two
most favorable of their own, Houston's with top five protection
and the Clippers. They own Utah's that's top eight protected,
that's not going to convey. And then they own the
Philadelphia seventy six ers that's top four protection after it
didn't convey last year. In twenty twenty seven, the Thunder
have the two most favorable of their own, the Clippers
and Denver's pick, which has top five protection on it.
They also get San Antonio's that has top sixteen protection.
In twenty twenty eight they have swap rights with Dallas,
and then in twenty twenty nine they have the Denver
Nuggets' first round pick, that is with top five protection.
It's it still seems like they have a lot of picks,
but like we're reaching the point to where it's manageable
to put these little outlines together and not be overwhelmed
with the sheer amount of draft obligations that the thunder have.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean it's still still looking pretty good,
but but it is it is at least like sort
of manageable, I guess, especially with like the sixers pick's
going to go, you know, so we can just kind
of check that one off the list and there'll be
a few more of those, I really, maybe one each
for the next four or five years. So like a
little more manageable. I don't know that that clarifies the
real question, which is like, all right, when do we
start if or when they start kind of using some
of these to do something or try to establish Like
I don't know, how do you feel about like, yeah,
we know who their core is, but like what you know,
we've talked in the past about well, let's give up
some of these more near term picks for ones down
the road. To just recomplicate the picture again after we
just talked about how it's fairly relatively simple, do you
have a sense of like if or when some of
these picks might move or do you think they'll just
use them? You know, because that's possible, that's doable. But
at some point it gets to be like, you can't
you certainly can't play all these guys that you might
be using first round picks on, and the paying of
the of these guys also becomes sort of all we're
almost there, right, Like it almost is an issue where
like Hartenstein and Dort, you know, you don't have to
do it right away, but like, well, those guys might
be casualties at some point, right, Like that's we're kind
of think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you look at them. You look at
just Cason Wallace because he's going to be extension eligible.
You look at Alex Caruso because of his money. I
think you look at Isaiah Joon Aaron Wiggins.
Speaker 1: I don't they don't.
Speaker 2: This team should be willing to pay the second apron
for at least a year, if not that least right right,
If not, THEMN who. But I do think a lot
of it's just going to depend on how this season ends.
But I think we start to see some type of reshuffling,
whether it's them moving salaries around or moving some of
these pick around picks around, kicking them into the distance.
I think that starts to happen this summer. I guess
what I wanted to ask you though, to start, was
do you assign any concern to the way they've been
playing over the past month and a half or so?
They are as we're recording this thirteen and nine since December,
I think it's thirteenth, still top ten in offense and defense.
They can't rebound, they've they've been so injured at points.
When you look at Hartenstein, I think has been the
most notable one deal with something. Now you have Loudort
the Jadub hamstring strain, and he wasn't healthy to start
the year and look like himself when he comes back.
And so I ask you this to say, is there
any I guess one do you view the thunder as
more vulnerable to the point where they should be more
open to making a trade, Because I think we all
just looked at this and said that maybe they'll dump
boost them on, but they're not gonna do anything else.
But two, is there a chance maybe that they try
to get out in front of anything financially to where no,
they're not dumping salary necessarily, but they're trying to maybe
either roll over first into more different first, or they're trying.
Speaker 1: To get cheaper. They're like, let's use Isaiah Hertenstein as
an example. This is just a theory. It doesn't work financially.
It just came to me.
Speaker 2: But like, if you wanted to move his salary to
get someone who's another center who's under contracts for cheaper
for a longer term, I've just flat out before throwing
it to you. I don't think they're gonna do that.
I would probably actively advocate against it because I still
think this team is unbeatable fully healthy, maybe with the
exception of playing the healthy Nuggets team, or hey, maybe
with playing a team, you know, the second string Nuggets
at this point. But I'm just wondering, because it is
every team goes through ruts. But it's just something to
I think at least worth a little bit of discussion.
Speaker 3: It is. I think that's right. I mean, I the
injuries of can't get too far into the concern trolling
before you have to just concede, like, well they they really,
I mean, I guess the argument would be, like is
it The question would be, is it concerning that they
seem to really need Hartenstein? For example? You know, like
as that is, I don't know where he fall. Is
he the fifth most important player? You would have said
maybe sixth, I don't know, but like now the rebounding
the well now like it seems higher, right because like
him being out is has it doesn't necessarily affect like
the three point variant stuff, which is still a factor,
but just some of the they really are best when
they don't have to play chet at a at center
like all the time. Like that's pretty demonstrably clear. And
and I just think maybe it's not Hartenstein in particular,
although like his rim defense, his you know, short role finishing,
like all that stuff is you know, you can't just
throw another big in there and assume you're getting the
same thing. But I just answer the question, I don't
think this recent stretch where they've looked mortal should make
them do anything they weren't already considering doing, which is
to say, like what you mentioned of more of like
a three year time horizon planning kind of trade, you know, thing,
as opposed to like, we got to go get another
big I mean, I could see it, but I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 3: I think maybe they knew that anyway, or they saw
that as maybe a concern anyway, or we need another
shooter or whatever you thought the needs were. I just
can't get that exercised about a team that played like
one hundred games last year and plays a style that's
really physically exhausting, and this is just this just happens
to titled defenders right Like. It's not like their postseason
run was super short the year before either, so as
young as they are, nobody's bulletproof. So it's just an
injury thing to me. And I don't think it should
meaningfully change what they might have might or might not
have done at this deadline. I don't like the no
one's saying panic, but like even even like the idea
that this should change their overall like sets of plans.
I can't quite get there.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm with you.
Speaker 2: I think what you brought up that's interesting is it
does seem people are divided on if the thunder we're
going to make a trade or if the thunder we're
going to acquire someone who does it need to be
because I think you mentioned a big and when you
look at kind of the injuries and how important Hartenstein
is as a rebounder, defender, even just as a decision
maker on offense to where you're not going to get
that same level of certainly from Jay Will, but even
from chet Holmgren is just not the same type of
playmaker Asaiya Hartenstein is. But you could also say, well,
they need shooting. They're shooting under thirty five percent on
wide open threes during this treasure.
Speaker 1: They look mortal. You could also.
Speaker 2: Say, well, if we're looking at them playing, whether Jadub's
healthy or not, the way that teams sell out to
go after shake Gilgess Alexander is absolutely agregious and by
the way, I would do the same thing, especially if
JJR is not on the floor. Well, then do they
need like another ball handler who's going to be able
to attack better than an aj Mitchell or a case
in Wallace or just like anyone else who is out there. Again,
I don't think they need to do anything nuclear, but
what do you view if they were to make a move.
What do you view as their most pressing priority?
Speaker 3: I think, and this is weirdly not like all that
tied to their recent play, although maybe it's It is like,
what have we always said about the you know, this
version of the Thunder, is that like just somebody else
on the second side other than Jadab, or that that
you trust more than Jadab to initiate action when Shay
gets forced off the ball, and or like this now
we're talking about a much different kind of player, someone
that could you know, we think it's Jadab and he's
mostly put that narrative to bed, but like when Shaye's
not on the floor at all, like and maybe maybe
the solve is it's someone that can serve as like
a good or like an improved secondary creator when it
is Shay off Jadab on and Jadab is the primary guy.
Just I feel like, if you're looking at the totality
of the Thunder over the last whatever two and a
half years, that's still to me, is the thing I think,
because I have no issues defensively once Hartenstein's back, like
the rebounding should be okay, and they win enough of
the other types of possession battle stats to survive substandards.
Speaker 2: At the rebounds they don't get, they'll just offset it
with forced turnovers.
Speaker 3: Right, so your possessions are fine. Yeah, it's an old answer,
but I still think it might be the relevant one,
which is just can you get somebody that can make
a play with the ball that's not Shay?
Speaker 2: I do think what's really it's not really tough. I
don't even know if I agree with you. I think
I agree with you. But when you go through the
things that quote unquote they could use the bar for cracking.
Their rotation is so high that I'm not advocating for
them to throw a bunch of picks on the table
get player X. But you do if you're going to
acquire someone if they're not going to be in the
top eight of your rotation, isn't there kind of a
what's the point here? How how's if you got Sam
Hauser to fill a shooting need? That's there'll be playoff
games where Sam Hawser isn't playing on this roster.
Speaker 3: It's like he's he's what what percent better than Isaiah Joe,
Like different different position, but it's like you're gonna be
ask him to do the same stuff. Basically, so how much.
I don't even know what Joe's shooting this year, but
I trust his shooting.
Speaker 1: He's been rickety like, but you trust.
Speaker 3: Thirty nine percent. Though on the season for three always feels.
Speaker 2: Like he's missing, you know how, it's just h he's
got a little Michael Porter Junior in him where it's
just like he's it feels like he's the most erratic
dead eye shooter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you know who Caruso and Jay Will are
both just barely over thirty percent. But like maybe Jay
Will is someone that you could take minutes away from.
He's just playing eighteen, so it's not it's not like
there's a lot to pull, but like the type of
thing you're talking about, where where are those minutes gonna
get dragged away from if you do go make a trade,
like you're not taking Carusose minutes away at least in
the playoffs. You know, maybe it's Wiggins and Joe that
just play less.
Speaker 2: And which is also why if you're gonna pull minutes away,
it's better to acquire someone who checks multiple boxes of
what you need because then it gets easier to justify
making that decision. Otherwise, I think whoever you're acquiring here
is very breaking case of emergency, or close not even
breaking case of emergency. But you've looked at your roster
and said, there's just been injuries cropping up left and right.
Let's go out and get if we're so, we can
start throwing out targets now. But it's a big It's yeah,
we could get Dayren Sharp. I don't know if he's
gonna is he gonna play over Jay Will when Hartenstein,
Holmgren and Jay Will are healthy. If Sharp's on your team,
assuming jay Will isn't moved as part of that deal,
which I don't think he would be, Who's who's the
third big you could ask? You could I've seen Io'd
assume move link to them, and I guess he could
check a couple boxes where I don't consider him a
capslock shooter, but he could. He defends and certainly makes
a play with the ball and has a little bit
more size than some of their other guards.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, like, it's funny you went with Dissumu. I
was just thinking, like, Okay, so let's say I don't
think this is the guy either, but if it's Kobe
White or or maybe ke On Ellis is another one.
I'm just thinking of guys that like. Ellis is the
one who purportedly the Kings want a first round or
first rounder for him, And it's like, what's more, sorry,
what's more? Like?
Speaker 2: You know, you're right, Kings, the King's getting a first
rounder for ke On Ellis or the Hornets getting two
first rounders for Miles Bridges.
Speaker 3: The Kings, that's easy because you're never getting too first
for Bridges. Well, just be I'm trying to like what
I'm trying to like expresses that the thund it doesn't
make sense for the Thunder to pay the market rate
for players like that because of what you're talking about
where it's like you said dessum un I was like,
that's a good player. Every team should want him. How
many Knights is he gonna be better than like all
of Caruso, Wallace, Dort Wiggins, Mitchell, you know, like he's
he's got to be so good, He's just not gonna.
So it's not the point is it's not worth it
to the Thunder to give what it would cost to
get that player and beat the market for that player
because that player will just mean less for them, you know,
So the counter is, well, they got all these extra picks,
so their picks mean less to them too. But it's
just like you, as the thunder is this is a
great problem. They're so good and so deep that it's
like it actually makes less sense to pay market rates
for a player that another team like could absolutely justify
giving up a first for key On else because he
might start for you and play forty minutes or you know,
like that's not the case here.
Speaker 2: I think also what the thunder to run into is
that they're so flexible, but they're not gonna pay the
tax this year, and so while they do have the
flexibility and make some lopsided trades, I would assume what
was intriguing because it's, hey, doesn't impact our tax Usman
Jang's the matching salary. If it's only now, if we're
talking about guys who costs a first round pick, I think.
Speaker 1: The bar just needs to be higher.
Speaker 2: But if it's to Sunmu and you able, what is
it the oak hum, say like nineteen seconds or some
shit that they can trade if you have enough enticing
one like he's an expiring contract. I like him as
a player, but I'm not giving up a first round
pick for I would assume if he's starting for me,
I'm not giving up a first round pick for him,
So that might be why he would be intriguing.
Speaker 1: Or I even thought like, is it worth it to
this guy smaller?
Speaker 2: But if you know their cost controlled for another year
or two and this guy is do you throw n
We don't really need this first round pick at the
Knicks to get a Deuce McBride in there who takes
care of the shooting at least I don't know if
he's not. There's a little bit of like off the
dribbled juice to him, but he's not setting up place
or anyone doesn't really run your offense like that. But
he's making three point eight million dollars next year and
four million dollars this year, And so if you can
rope in another team U Zusmanjang, do you look at
doing something like that? And then it's really you're just saying, well,
we don't know, with like, how do we feel about
j Dubb does lou doort injury? Alex Caruso's always injured,
and maybe does does a Deuce McBride because he's cheap
for another year, and maybe you just think he's going
to be cheaper moving forward when you're evaluating, well, what
do we do with Lou Dort or Alex Caruso specifically,
like the guys who are more expensive.
Speaker 1: Does that insulate you a little bit?
Speaker 3: There?
Speaker 2: Not very compelling to me, But like the iodassuming one is,
if it's Usman Jang for iod assume one, you just
need to throw seconds at Chicago to make it work.
I could see that having some value. But again it's
to your point, everyone's healthy? Is iodossume move? Playing over
caseon Wallace, aj Mitchell, Lou Door, Alex Caruso. Definitely not Caruso.
Caruso's healthy, right, I don't even like Cason Wallace either.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no noise no, I I like. I think the
related sort of thing to consider there is like, sure,
you know the relatively much cheaper, relatively good cost control
on someone like McBride. You pay in draft picks to
acquire that guy, And then is the move like, well,
now we can move off of Isaiah Joe because McBride
can just play those minutes and we're gonna save eight
million dollars a year? Like is that is? It? Is
that what you're using your draft assets? To accomplish Like
that feels like kind of small potatoes to you know,
to be giving up you got all this, You got
the surplus of assets, like I don't think you want
to be using them to try to like just get
slightly cheaper in your eighth and ninth and tenth guys,
Like that feels weird. And then when to talk about
cost control too, like Nicole Topa is gonna play at
some point maybe next year, right, Like yeah, like Thomas
Sorber is probably going to play at some point, And
are you willing to give up assets for short term
fixes now? Maybe because you are panicking because you're thirteen
to nine or of the last twenty two or whatever,
knowing that, Like I don't know, did you know there's
that's that other factor of like there's these other guys
in the pipeline that were hide picks and you presumably
value Like is it?
Speaker 1: Does it?
Speaker 3: Just? Are you ballsy enough to just not do anything now?
Trust you're good enough to be what you want to
be this year? And then you've got two brand new
lottery picks like showing up next year, you know what
I mean? Like you'd have to be pretty concerned about
this year's outlook to really even to get into the
dissum moo McBride, Kobe White whatever, like interesting dissum.
Speaker 2: I just feel like, is so the asset outlay wouldn't
be that high to where what would what would three
seconds be to?
Speaker 3: Okay say nothing nothing, you're right, but it's just but
then it's like, Okay, he's a good example, especially because
he sort of is similar to the guys that he
would be like taking minutes from Yeah, if it's seconds whatever,
who cares? But like I don't know, I don't And
I guess he comes off the books. Sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Also, I don't know if assume is available for bad
for you know, a couple seconds. Don't you think he's
gonna go for someone's gonna be better than that? I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna parrot what mort said. And there's no rhyme
or reason to what the Bulls actually do. They are
one of the worst trade negotiators in the league. And again,
I guess we just disagree on is someone going to
do better than three seconds for iod soon?
Speaker 1: Mu? I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean someone someone should because he's way more valuable
to basically every other team than the Thunder, because the
Thunder have a lot of guys that do what he does,
so someone should be willing to beat what they can offer.
Speaker 2: But again it's their approximity of the attacks also IOD
assumers specifically. But if you were trying to I try
to think Jalen Smith could kind of make some sense
on this team. Is there a way to get him?
Even getting him as a standalone value?
Speaker 1: Though?
Speaker 2: Are you willing to give up if you're not going
into the tax, you're not just giving up Usban Jang?
Are you willing to give up Kendrick Williams who's been
playing well recently, that's not a trade. Or if you
were getting both Jalen Smith and Iota soon Mu, is
that a trade where you'd be willing to put Wiggins
or Joe on top of Uspanjeng on the table. I mean,
if you put one of them, you probably out. It's
Chicago giving you assets back in that deal. But I
don't That doesn't fixture because the sumer was fine as
a shooter, and Jalen Smith has stretched the way he
plays and he's had some pretty good defensive stands lately.
Speaker 1: But that just doesn't compel me.
Speaker 2: And so that just leads me into the only spicy
idea that I have, because I feel like we're required
to throw out.
Speaker 1: Spicy ideas in these things.
Speaker 2: What if they I'm trying to check multiple boxes year
and I'm thinking it's just like another big in the
rotation he has cost controlled relative to what they have
moving forward, has stretch to him. Would you consider looking
at on Yeka kung Wu thunder have choose your own
adventure assets he could play. I don't even know you
could build your package without including Isaiah Hartenstein in that.
So you could have just a three man big rotation
of Hartenstein, on Yeka kung Wu and chat Holmgrid. No,
no problem, all three. You can mix and match however
you want with those guys. But now we're going into oh,
this costs real assets to do. But with Isaiah Hartenstein's
team option on Kongo's on the books for noticeably sub
twenty million dollars, does he have another two years?
Speaker 3: Hardenstein's gonna make more than that? Like I would strongly
suspect because because I.
Speaker 2: Think you're right more than Yeah, my god, the O
Kungo deal is so stupid. He's on the books for
another two years and thirty three million dollars total.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. That's like mid level money.
Speaker 2: M hmmm.
Speaker 3: No, I think that's worth looking at. I thought you
were going to go even bigger, and it's just like, well,
you could throw together Hartenstein and dort with with Kendrich Williams,
all those guys have team options for next year, and
let's just throw all the picks and just get Yannis
and just call it good. Here's the money. Would you
could in the year with similar money going forward? Figure
it out?
Speaker 2: I think Janni's only fixes one need for this team,
and that's just the non Shay like creation. And then
he creates another issue with his space.
Speaker 3: Right he does? I mean yeah, he just just use
him in the Hartenstein role. You know, he plays like
twenty four minutes when he's healthy, Just just a short
roll passer guy, probably a little better finisher. I could
see it. Yeah. No, I think I think we've kind
of gone through some of the like I don't think
like those just just to canvas the usual suspects like
Michael Porter Junior doesn't do anything for me here, not
that they're even in the market for like the bigger
names like Trey Murphy would be great, but I just
that's one actually where it's like, I don't think they need.
Speaker 1: To see check boxes.
Speaker 3: Well, right, that's the thing. He gives you the like
a really good off ball shooter, second side slasher. Yeah,
not going to create a ton on his own, but
like against the shifting defense, I like him attacking, but
I think I think he's just if one, he may
not be available at all, which is stupid. The Pelicans
should absolutely be taking offers. And two that's one where
I think you probably it's probably not worth it to
them to pay what it would cost to win this
weepstakes for Trey Murphy. I don't think because like you said,
what boxes is he checking?
Speaker 2: I think the way to boil it down, and I
think they might be open to like a little bit
more stacking where it's I know Thomas Serber's injured and
maybe they plan on him playing a bigger role this
year than we even thought just based off what's happened, But.
Speaker 1: Would they be willing to attach him to Ustman Jang.
Speaker 2: I think at the end of the day, for me,
it's who can you get with seconds Usman Jang's salary,
and then you're staying under the tax. I think that
there's no point to me in unless they capsize in
the playoffs. I don't want to mess with the fabric
of this team, like the dynamic behind the scenes too,
Like does it send a weird message if you're shaking
up this roster? I think it's now. If you're worried
about I'll say Hartenstein and Jadub specifically long term, those
would be the inflection points of okay, maybe we need
to do something, but otherwise it's usman jang seconds staying
under the tax. Who could you get for that? I
would assume Moo fits that dayrn Sharp fits that. I'm
gonna throw it a really spicy name here. Glandale fits that.
So if you just wanted like another like you can
do something like that because you're not giving up anyone
that matters, And like, do you like Eves Mesi for
this team?
Speaker 1: I don't know if New Orleans.
Speaker 2: Wants a first round pick for him, but they certainly
have a ton of seconds and in okay, see so
I think that's the territory that they are in, and
that frankly, that's how I would operate at the at
the deb I mean I might poke around on Yaka
kung Wu, just like to see what that would look like.
Speaker 1: But in reality, no, I wouldn't.
Speaker 3: I'm surprised you haven't mentioned Al Horford yet. I think
actually he would make a lot of sense. And if
you threw a bunch of seconds in Jang's salary at
the Warriors.
Speaker 1: Oh, hold on, hold on.
Speaker 2: We are fresh off our New York Knicks primer and
I basically propose the same idea, and you told me,
hell no, this.
Speaker 3: Is from the Thunder's perspective, Like this isn't the Warriors perspective.
Speaker 2: The podcast is fracturing and fissuring right before your very eyes.
Do you have anything else for the Thunder? Are you
ready to take us out of here?
Speaker 1: Nope.
Speaker 3: I think my hot take is that they're fine, and
it's they smoked in the first round before I start
getting concerned, and even then probably not.
Speaker 2: I honestly, because it would probably be because someone was injured.
Speaker 1: I'm not I think they're gonna win the West. It's honestly, I.
Speaker 2: Only view not that I only view the Nuggets, but
four times and seven tries, if everyone's like eighty percent healthy,
the Nuggets are like kind of the only team for me.
Speaker 3: Yep, not worried. Thanks everybody for listening. Remember to rate,
review and subscribely with some comments here rate the Thunders.
I don't know panic level on a scale of well
one to two, because that's as high as it's allowed
to go. Tell your friends, tell your enemies, Joinner Discoruglings
for that in YouTube and podcast description. Until next time,
shouts to Franklin Lakina. Apologies Jared Allen