Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do. Welcome
Speaker 1: to Why we do what we do. I am your
Speaker 1: Audobon host Abraham.
Speaker 2: And I'm your Lives in a Bird Sanctuary host Shane Nice.
Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things
Speaker 1: non human animals do and sometimes the things that humans
Speaker 1: do with respect to non human animals. That's what we're
Speaker 1: talking about today. And if you're joining us for the
Speaker 1: first time, then welcome. I hope that you enjoy what
Speaker 1: you hear in this discussion. And if you're a returning
Speaker 1: person and welcome back, thank you so much for choosing
Speaker 1: to be with us for a second, third, or even
Speaker 1: more than that time. And either way, if you would
Speaker 1: like to support us, you can leave us a rating
Speaker 1: and a review like subscribe, tell a friend, join us
Speaker 1: on Patreon on I'll talk more about those things at
Speaker 1: the end of this discussion. But this episode comes out
Speaker 1: on July twenty seconds, and therefore it is important to
Speaker 1: acknowledge notice and wish everybody a happy casual Pie Day. PI.
Speaker 2: Yes, Pi, it's also fragile X Awareness Day.
Speaker 1: Hmm. You know, I don't think we've ever actually done
Speaker 1: an episode or a mini on fragile x. I'm gonn
Speaker 1: write that down really quick because it's an interesting it's
Speaker 1: an interesting one.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I've worked with a couple of folks that have
Speaker 2: fragile x. It's really interesting.
Speaker 1: It is Lions Share Day. That could mean that the
Speaker 1: lions share with each other. It could mean a large proportion,
Speaker 1: it could mean the share that goes to a specific lion.
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of things interpreted as you maybe a
Speaker 1: share lions, interpreted as you will. It's Lions share Day.
Speaker 2: It could be it could be lions stockholding.
Speaker 1: Beautiful.
Speaker 2: If birds participate in the stock market, would it be
Speaker 2: called a flock market?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's yeah, in the animal world, when there
Speaker 2: is a stock market, that's what we're dealing with. Let's
Speaker 2: get back on track. Come on, tighten up, Abraham.
Speaker 1: It's mango Day, Delicious, It's National hammock Day where you
Speaker 1: can store those mangos, I guess, uh huh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or where you desperately want to be right now.
Speaker 2: So it's a national Panucci or Panuche fudge day.
Speaker 1: I read that as panouche.
Speaker 2: I don't know why, it just I feel like it.
Speaker 2: It feels French like French like, not frenchy, but French
Speaker 2: Frenchish like fancy is what I'm going to say, French
Speaker 2: and fancy Frenchy. That's frenchy.
Speaker 1: Apparently, it is rat Catcher's Day, the character from DC. Yes,
Speaker 1: or rat Catcher too, if you will. It's Spooner's Day
Speaker 1: or Spoonerism's Day. Oh so close to my heart. I
Speaker 1: do it. Just a frequency that is potentially pathological.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Same.
Speaker 1: It is Summer Leisure Day or Lummer Seizure Day, Yes
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: It is Captive Nations Week or Naptivcations Week.
Speaker 1: Sure. It is Coral Reef Awareness Week. Oh love coral reefs.
Speaker 1: They're the best.
Speaker 2: They're the best. They're so great. It's Hemingway lookalike days. No,
Speaker 2: you win, Shane, I am the old man and there's
Speaker 2: the sea.
Speaker 1: It is Massage is for every Body week or everybody
Speaker 1: massage massages for everybody week. That's how I'm reading that.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I like that. It is National Moth Week.
Speaker 1: Okay. It is National Triathlon Week. Good luck, it's great.
Speaker 1: I would I would do it if I were younger
Speaker 1: and had time.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's National zoo Keeper Week.
Speaker 1: No fun Okay, well, maybe not fun. There's a lot
Speaker 1: a lot to say about zoos that we've never gotten into.
Speaker 1: But all right, that's that's the days of the week
Speaker 1: that we talk about. That's just an amuse boosh, an appetizer,
Speaker 1: a thing to set the mood for the silliness, whimsy
Speaker 1: and kind of approach we bring to these things. There's
Speaker 1: a level of nerd embodied in that list that we
Speaker 1: love to share. And that's that's going to be a
Speaker 1: running theme throughout all of this discussion and all subsequent discussions.
Speaker 1: And I'll pass discussions if we're being truly honest. So
Speaker 1: let's let's dive into this. Are you ready or is
Speaker 1: there anything that I'm missing and you like to add
Speaker 1: before we begin?
Speaker 2: I am so ready?
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, nerds, And I say that with all
Speaker 1: the love in my heart. I have some friends who
Speaker 1: are fairly avid birders, and listening to them talk passionately
Speaker 1: about the birds that they've seen and the unique songs
Speaker 1: that they've heard, it's infectious and it's inspiring. Like I
Speaker 1: love hearing them talk about this. They're so passionate about it,
Speaker 1: and they regale me with stories about beautiful hikes and
Speaker 1: lakes and rare sightings of birds that make me want
Speaker 1: to walk out the door and see what need has
Speaker 1: to offer.
Speaker 2: And further, one of Abraham's favorite board games, Wingspan, has
Speaker 2: hundreds of unique, nearly photo realistic campaigning cards of real birds,
Speaker 2: with random facts about those birds on each card.
Speaker 1: I have talked about this game before. I will talk
Speaker 1: about it some more. It is so fun and so
Speaker 1: good and it makes me love birds even more. It's
Speaker 1: so cool. So all that is to say, we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about birds specifically. We're going to talk about birding,
Speaker 1: what it is, how and why people do it, and
Speaker 1: how you can get started or just know about this
Speaker 1: very popular hobby.
Speaker 2: Yes, as a Floridian, I love birds because we have
Speaker 2: so many unique ones here, between the herons and the
Speaker 2: ibis and like the pelicans and the weird the sandhill
Speaker 2: cranes that walk around. Man, it's so cool. It's so great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so true. Yeah, I was definitely quite enamored with
Speaker 1: some of the cranes and the ibis and everything when
Speaker 1: I was living down in your neck of the woods.
Speaker 1: Just really amazing creatures so.
Speaker 2: Huge, they're scary, are so tall, and you're like, these
Speaker 2: are dinosaurs.
Speaker 1: Speaking of which, do you know if Florida has the
Speaker 1: shoebill stork.
Speaker 2: I don't know. We have a lot of storks, Okay,
Speaker 2: I don't know if we have the shoebill one, but
Speaker 2: that one is frightening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that looks like a dinosaur. I have not looked
Speaker 1: up whether or not they live in Florida. People are
Speaker 1: probably yelling at their speakers right now saying either yes
Speaker 1: or no, or calling us names. But shoebill stork very interesting,
Speaker 1: very crazy, cool looking bird I would not want to
Speaker 1: be very close to in real life, but I do
Speaker 1: like watching videos of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So apparently the only place you see a shoebill
Speaker 2: stork in Florida is at the Tampa Zoo.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so not not a wild thing out in
Speaker 1: the world, not a wild thing here now, all right, Well,
Speaker 1: this is not a fan episode about the shoebill stork
Speaker 1: or the cranes and ibis of Florida. But we're about
Speaker 1: just talking about burning more broadly, all the birds and
Speaker 1: there is. When we get into these a lot of times,
Speaker 1: it's important that we start by defining our terms, and
Speaker 1: unfortunately there's not a super clear definition of birding because
Speaker 1: different people propose different ways of thinking about this. Definitions
Speaker 1: range from as little as noticing a bird and that
Speaker 1: qualifying you as doing birding, to recording your sightings or
Speaker 1: labeling the bird, being able to say what it is
Speaker 1: that is. It's kind of a low bar to clear,
Speaker 1: because it's like, if you're paying attention and recording it,
Speaker 1: then that could count, and if you're just paying attention,
Speaker 1: that could maybe count to And those are not super
Speaker 1: different things, right, And then obviously some people go a
Speaker 1: lot more hardcore than that. We'll talk about that. For
Speaker 1: the most part, though, when you're thinking about birding, it's
Speaker 1: really just any activity in which you choose to actively
Speaker 1: notice birds in your environments that can essentially qualify you
Speaker 1: as doing birding. I think probably you're doing it semi habitually,
Speaker 1: like you're choosing this on some kind of regular schedule.
Speaker 1: But importantly, birding means observing and I say that because
Speaker 1: it does not mean interacting with or disturbing the bird.
Speaker 1: Birders are not going out trying to take nests or
Speaker 1: touch them. They just want to see them. The object
Speaker 1: of this activity is to see a wide diversity of
Speaker 1: creatures and nature. You're not chasing them, capturing them, harassing them,
Speaker 1: or interacting with them. You just want to see them
Speaker 1: and record the fact that you saw them, maybe also
Speaker 1: heard them. But like you're generally, the point is to
Speaker 1: leave them alone, but be able to have the memory
Speaker 1: and recording and experience of having been able to witness
Speaker 1: this cool, majestic creature.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny. I never thought of myself
Speaker 2: as a burder until not too long ago when I
Speaker 2: was trying to figure out what birds were flying around
Speaker 2: at dusk and were flying really strange, and I realized
Speaker 2: there were bats, and I went, oh, I need to
Speaker 2: do a better job of this. That's a terrible birder.
Speaker 2: I was like, what bird is that? Nope, that's not
Speaker 2: a bird. It's a mean minute. But now we have
Speaker 2: Patricia that's hanging out around our cool So most people
Speaker 2: are unlikely to call themselves burders, however, until they start
Speaker 2: learning the names of their birds and recording their observations
Speaker 2: in some capacity, maybe in like a field note general
Speaker 2: or whatever they're doing, you know, and that is they
Speaker 2: start choosing to be on the lookout for birds as
Speaker 2: an activity unto itself. So it's like a more intentional activity.
Speaker 1: And again it's not like the definition. It's just like,
Speaker 1: at what point, Like, I like birds. I even bought
Speaker 1: a pair of binoculars, But I don't call myself a
Speaker 1: burder because I don't really do it very often. I'm
Speaker 1: not like actively trying to seek it out. I feel
Speaker 1: like that's the point at which people sort of start
Speaker 1: to But I mean, you don't have to, like you,
Speaker 1: you could do as little as I am doing and
Speaker 1: call yourself a burder. I just didn't feel like that
Speaker 1: level made sense to me personally. But again, the definition
Speaker 1: is kind of loosey, goosey. Here, goosey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of birds, it's gonna be just a big
Speaker 2: comedy here, Like it's gonna be so full of puns.
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, Okay, so many of you might be hearing
Speaker 1: this and thinking like that's something old people do, and
Speaker 1: you're not wrong. The is particularly common among older adults,
Speaker 1: with an average of forty nine years old. For the
Speaker 1: people who are out there doing burning, No, of course
Speaker 1: means there are people way below that and people way
Speaker 1: over that, but that's where the average sort of puts it. However,
Speaker 1: research shows that this is a growing hobby in popularity
Speaker 1: and that includes a like growing number of much younger people,
Speaker 1: Like there are kind of kids, they're in their like
Speaker 1: barely adulthood who are out doing this, and sometimes even
Speaker 1: younger than that that like they choose to go out
Speaker 1: and do burning at things activities and would call themselves burders.
Speaker 1: So this is a there's a lot of increased interest
Speaker 1: in this and the age the ages really range like
Speaker 1: a whole lifetime basically, but the average age currently at
Speaker 1: least was listed by I think this is the Autobahn
Speaker 1: Society was forty nine years old.
Speaker 2: All right, makes sense now. The National Association of Hunting, Fishing,
Speaker 2: and Wildlife Associated Recreation assembled a report in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: two that estimated that there are as many as ninety
Speaker 2: six million Americans, so about thirty percent of the population
Speaker 2: that they are burners. And there seems to be an
Speaker 2: increase in the population of the younger people who are burners,
Speaker 2: which is I think lovely. I think more young folks
Speaker 2: need to be connected with nature very.
Speaker 1: Much, So yeah, I think that's a that's a cool trend.
Speaker 1: And furthermore, technology has made it easier to record birds.
Speaker 1: These apps that we can carry around on phones like
Speaker 1: go in our pocket that can record their sounds and
Speaker 1: then tell you what song that probably like, what bird
Speaker 1: that sound probably belongs to. So the barrier to entry
Speaker 1: for this activity, what little there was to begin with,
Speaker 1: is further reduced by making it increasingly easy and acceptable.
Speaker 1: And have the tools to help you get into the hobby.
Speaker 1: Like it's so easy to do now you have to
Speaker 1: You can exert barely any effort to go out and
Speaker 1: just start looking for birds and recording what you find.
Speaker 1: And you might look around and just start noticing all
Speaker 1: the ads on billboards or in your podcasts. Okay, we're back.
Speaker 1: You can notice ads if you want to. Let's actually
Speaker 1: get into like how to go about doing birding. So like,
Speaker 1: here's here's the things to know, the things to do
Speaker 1: if you want to go out and bird. This is
Speaker 1: your field knowledge guide if you will, or field guide
Speaker 1: of knowledge. I don't know. Here's here's information.
Speaker 2: Here's how you start. You can decide to put as
Speaker 2: much or as little time into birding as you'd like.
Speaker 2: Most people recommend three things. A pair of binoculars, a
Speaker 2: guide book, and a positive attitude. I don't know where
Speaker 2: you can buy a positive attitude, but if you do,
Speaker 2: find a place to buy that. Please let me know
Speaker 2: if you're going to stock up if we can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I need to buy some myself, and I'm.
Speaker 2: Going to resell it on Etsy, but I'm going to like,
Speaker 2: you know, make it a little bit more artsy and
Speaker 2: hit be Like. So, this is a pretty inexpensive hobby
Speaker 2: and like most things, you can spend a lot of
Speaker 2: money if you want to, but you really don't have to.
Speaker 2: A twenty dollar book and at twenty dollars pair of
Speaker 2: binoculars and you already start burning for less than fifty
Speaker 2: bucks if you even want to spend that much. You
Speaker 2: can actually just look at what's around and write down
Speaker 2: or just spend time noticing it, or use an app
Speaker 2: to record the bird, which is really cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like, there really is, Like you can do
Speaker 1: this for free, one hundred percent. You can do this
Speaker 1: for free. You can do it with zero equipment if
Speaker 1: you want to. Most people like to have a pair
Speaker 1: of binoculars in like some kind of guidebook, but you
Speaker 1: don't have to do it whatever you want. Yeah, some
Speaker 1: people will spend hundreds of dollars to get very particularly
Speaker 1: powerful binoculars, or even some people will like set up
Speaker 1: a single lens telescope, or they'll buy really powerful cameras
Speaker 1: so they can take pictures of what they see. But
Speaker 1: it's just kind of whatever is in your comfort range
Speaker 1: and no obligations here. You do not have to have
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars telescope to call yourself a burder. If
Speaker 1: you just want to walk outside and notice a burd
Speaker 1: and be like, huh, that's a cool bird, then like
Speaker 1: you're doing the thing. Congratulations, Yeah, it's kind of nice.
Speaker 2: Now. Most recommend a ten by fifty or ten ten
Speaker 2: times fifty, ten by five fifty, Yeah, ten by fifty
Speaker 2: pair of binocular which is ten times magnification with a
Speaker 2: fifty millimeter objective lens and burning books range in price
Speaker 2: and complexity, from simple informational picture books to encyclopedic descriptions
Speaker 2: and enumerations of different kinds of bird species that exist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's like depending on how intensely you want
Speaker 1: to get into it. The beginner books are fairly simple.
Speaker 1: They're like, here's a picture of this bird, here's where
Speaker 1: you might find it, here's some variations in colors. Maybe
Speaker 1: here's a couple facts. That's it. Some of them are like,
Speaker 1: here's the Latin name and its habits, and it's like
Speaker 1: where's its place of origin and where its name comes from,
Speaker 1: and like sure, I mean you just kind of get
Speaker 1: into it as much as you want to. Really, Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: there are lots of places that will list the kind
Speaker 1: of books you might try and find and then also
Speaker 1: rank them in terms of like their level of experience
Speaker 1: you're looking for by getting that book. So there's lots
Speaker 1: of resources out there if you want to get started.
Speaker 2: Yeah, most definitely.
Speaker 1: Now, a cool thing about this hobby is you don't
Speaker 1: necessarily have to do very much to get into it.
Speaker 1: Ninety five percent of ninety five percent, which if my
Speaker 1: math is right, is almost all of them.
Speaker 2: It's just so many.
Speaker 1: That's so many. They spend the majority of their birding
Speaker 1: time simply in their backyards or like on their property somewhere.
Speaker 1: You can just set up on a porch, you can
Speaker 1: go walk around, you can just observe what you see
Speaker 1: and like at what times of year. Like notice that
Speaker 1: their birds migrate a lot of them, so you might
Speaker 1: see different birds in different times of the year. So
Speaker 1: just like go out, you don't need to travel very
Speaker 1: far if you don't want to. Of course, you can
Speaker 1: travel to places known to have certain birds that you
Speaker 1: might be interested in trying to observe, And many people
Speaker 1: who get into the hobby report doing just that. They're like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I drove three hours out of my way to go
Speaker 1: to this forest because I heard that there's this nesting
Speaker 1: eagle there or something. And if you want to do that, like,
Speaker 1: that's the thing you can do. But you can also,
Speaker 1: like I said, most people just are like at their house,
Speaker 1: maybe around their neighborhood, just walking around seeing what they see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you also need a sense of curiosity about the
Speaker 2: world around you, a willingness to observe and notice various
Speaker 2: aspects of nature, and patience. You're going to notice different
Speaker 2: sounds that you hear, the colors that are around you,
Speaker 2: the feeling of the breeze or the sun on your skin.
Speaker 2: You're going to notice the insects and the flowers and
Speaker 2: the little fruits that might be growing around you. Record
Speaker 2: what you see when you see it, and nature's not
Speaker 2: there to entertain you, so appreciate what you get to
Speaker 2: see when you get to see it, Like, not too
Speaker 2: long ago, we have these flowers there growing in our backyard.
Speaker 2: For the first time in my life. I saw a
Speaker 2: hummingbird in real life.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: I thought it was a big bug at first because
Speaker 2: I'm in Florida, so I was like, what is that?
Speaker 2: And then I looked at it. I was like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, it's a little, pretty little hummingbird. It's so cool.
Speaker 2: So and you just kind of like the best. It's
Speaker 2: just it's an at a glance thing that you're like,
Speaker 2: if you have the right flowers and you have the
Speaker 2: right things in place, you might see some things that
Speaker 2: you might not expect.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, very much. So that's cool. I love hummingbirds.
Speaker 1: They're so pretty.
Speaker 2: They're so pretty.
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of them in various places. They
Speaker 1: they're really cool. That's really cool. Yeah, absolutely, you can
Speaker 1: do that. And yeah, just the point being that, like
Speaker 1: if you're going to go out and nature, like, you
Speaker 1: might see some cool birds. You might not see anything,
Speaker 1: but you kind of just like notice what's there. And actually,
Speaker 1: one of the things that people will report is that
Speaker 1: the part of what has them be more mindful of
Speaker 1: their surroundings is they're starting to look out for like,
Speaker 1: what are the kinds of things that are tracting birds? Here?
Speaker 1: Are they here building nests? Are they here gathering food?
Speaker 1: Are they here doing mating rituals? Like there's there's all
Speaker 1: kinds of things going on, and the environment itself is
Speaker 1: often going to be a variable in what kind of
Speaker 1: birds show up, and so you might start to notice, like, oh, look,
Speaker 1: I noticed when I see these berries, these types of
Speaker 1: birds tend to show up. So if I'm in another
Speaker 1: place that has those, I might expect to see those
Speaker 1: types of birds. And so it's a part of it.
Speaker 1: But it's also just like just being there. Just be there,
Speaker 1: Just be there in that space, and probably you'll get
Speaker 1: to see some cool stuff and probably you'll just get
Speaker 1: to notice stuff you weren't otherwise normally paid attention to.
Speaker 2: Right exactly now, Depending on how.
Speaker 1: Much time you spend and where you are, you might
Speaker 1: want to plan for various environmental conditions. If you're going
Speaker 1: to be outside doing this, you want to be able
Speaker 1: to plan for weather, insects, and foliage Accordingly, generally the
Speaker 1: recommendation is to plan to wear clothes that cover most
Speaker 1: of your skin, which will protect you from bugs and
Speaker 1: from the sun, were sunglasses and a wide brimmed hat.
Speaker 1: And if you're gonna if it's gonna be dark, you
Speaker 1: might want a flashlight or something, just to make sure
Speaker 1: you can see where you're going. Wear sunscreen on parts
Speaker 1: of your body that aren't covered by clothes, or other
Speaker 1: things planned for if it might rain, if it's gonna
Speaker 1: be hot, if it's gonna be windy or muddy, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Just just accordingly, make sure you bring like a snack
Speaker 1: in some water or something so that you can be
Speaker 1: safe out and about.
Speaker 2: Yes, some people specifically recommend winter time specifically for their
Speaker 2: birding activities, as there are often fewer leaves on the
Speaker 2: trees and bushes that would otherwise obscure more well camouflaged
Speaker 2: bird colors and make it easier to spot some birds.
Speaker 2: That's especially true in Florida, Like there is a lot
Speaker 2: of foliage, but like in the winter, a lot of
Speaker 2: the trees drop their leaves and you could see a
Speaker 2: lot of really cool things.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so it's like normally they're sort of hidden
Speaker 1: by all of the trees, but with their being less
Speaker 1: on the branches, it's actually easier to spot some of
Speaker 1: the ones you might not otherwise see. Now, of course,
Speaker 1: many many birds are again we've mentioned this several times,
Speaker 1: but they'll migrate, so they may not be there in
Speaker 1: the winter, but you might see new ones in the
Speaker 1: winter that you wouldn't otherwise see. So just a thing
Speaker 1: to consider, and then obviously in that situation, just warmly yes,
Speaker 1: of course, all right, if you are really interested in
Speaker 1: observing what is available, plan to observe during the times
Speaker 1: that birds are the most active. Generally speaking, this is
Speaker 1: not a universal truth, but generally speaking, dusk and dawn
Speaker 1: are really good times. There are nocturnal birds and diurnal birds.
Speaker 1: In dusk and dawn, the birds are waking up if
Speaker 1: it's you know, in the morning, or they're just returning
Speaker 1: to rest, and the nighttime birds are kind of doing
Speaker 1: the same. So you get to see the majority of
Speaker 1: the birds that are active in your area because if
Speaker 1: at dusk, for example, you know your nighttime birds are
Speaker 1: starting to come out and be more active, your owls
Speaker 1: and whatnot, and in the morning those birds are starting
Speaker 1: to go back to their rest, and the birds that
Speaker 1: are getting up for the day starting to get up.
Speaker 1: And I also saw something about how like the cool
Speaker 1: air tends to facilitate carrying their songs. Further, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of insects that they're out catching that are like
Speaker 1: a little sluggish because it's maybe a little cool. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff going on, but dusk and dawn
Speaker 1: seem to be good times to try and observe, depending
Speaker 1: on what you're trying to observe and what's around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, it is appropriate to put out birds eat
Speaker 2: or other feeds to attract birds and even certain types
Speaker 2: of birds. Enticing birds to come near can be a
Speaker 2: very effective way to get to observe a wide variety
Speaker 2: of birds or very specific birds. Like I mentioned before,
Speaker 2: like that flower that we had was only accessible to
Speaker 2: a bird that would be able to like, you know,
Speaker 2: put its tiny little beak in there and get some nectar, right,
Speaker 2: like a pollen eater, and so like that makes sense
Speaker 2: to have that there, and that's only going to attract
Speaker 2: that it's not going to attract hawks or crows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And you know, we mentioned like the point
Speaker 1: of birding is not to interact with the birds, and
Speaker 1: that is true, yes, but it is not considered inappropriate
Speaker 1: to like set up a feeder where you are specifically
Speaker 1: sort of trying to entice birds to come near so
Speaker 1: that you can see them when they come near. Right,
Speaker 1: So that that could be a thing obviously, be nice
Speaker 1: to the birds, don't poison them, don't put something that's
Speaker 1: gonna like hurt them. Like if you want to see birds, like,
Speaker 1: be nice to the birds. Don't be a jerk.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And by the way, if you do attract crows, they
Speaker 1: are very smart and they will probably remember you, and
Speaker 1: if you give them something that makes them sick, they
Speaker 1: might start attacking you and putting in the car. That's
Speaker 1: for real, that's very real, and they tell each other
Speaker 1: about it and then their friends come and attack you.
Speaker 1: So like, don't mess with crows. Be nice to them.
Speaker 1: They're cool.
Speaker 2: Crows are really really cool. There's a couple of crows
Speaker 2: like they are like right near my house. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I want to train them and attack my enemies. I do.
Speaker 1: I Actually I was thinking about it, and I think
Speaker 1: that crows are my favorite bird. I think they're I
Speaker 1: really just appreciate how crafty and ingenius they are. And
Speaker 1: I know people don't like their their cow, but actually
Speaker 1: I like it a lot. I think it's really cool.
Speaker 2: That's funny. I was thinking about that. I was going
Speaker 2: to ask you what your favorite bird was, because I
Speaker 2: think mine is an osprey. Because we have a lot
Speaker 2: of those around here. Yeah, and they're really beautiful. They're
Speaker 2: like a blue gray white bird of prey. They always
Speaker 2: hang out by water. They there's a big nest near
Speaker 2: my house on top of the Walmart sign. Cool and
Speaker 2: you can see the parents, like the two parents that
Speaker 2: are hanging out and taking care of the babies in it.
Speaker 1: It's so cool. Oh that's amazing. Yeah, that's a good answer.
Speaker 1: There's a wrong answer. You see, see two are learning today.
Speaker 1: There's not really a wrong answer here, you know. Whatever
Speaker 1: is sort of strike. I like crows because they're very smart,
Speaker 1: and I like the I just like everything about it.
Speaker 1: I think they're really cool. I think they look cool anyway,
Speaker 1: great Oden's raven. There are many apps that provide pictures
Speaker 1: of birds as well as bird song recognition. A lot
Speaker 1: of times people refer to bird calls as a bird song,
Speaker 1: or they'll be able to play recorded bird sounds. There's
Speaker 1: like a huge library of recorded bird sounds, and then
Speaker 1: you can compare what you hear from those recordings to
Speaker 1: what you're hearing out in the wild. And many, if
Speaker 1: not most, of these apps are free, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: there's like paid subscriptions that you like get the premium
Speaker 1: whatever is, But like you can generally get access to
Speaker 1: these and be able to use them to help you
Speaker 1: on your birding journey very easily. You know, It's it's
Speaker 1: either free or you just have to sit through a
Speaker 1: bunch of ads. All right, we're back. We've been just
Speaker 1: talking about like the various things to consider and take
Speaker 1: on if you're going to get into the burning hobby.
Speaker 1: But it's always worth asking, like, what are the downsides
Speaker 1: to this? Should I maybe not do burning? And there's
Speaker 1: not very many, but we'll list them for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, like any hobby, it can be easy to
Speaker 2: get sucked into that into a hobby, and it starts
Speaker 2: consuming more and more of your time and resources that
Speaker 2: you were originally prepared to dedicate to such an activity.
Speaker 2: But I think there is something really valuable about this,
Speaker 2: like spending more time outside. While it has many benefits,
Speaker 2: can also come with some risks. There are increased chances
Speaker 2: for dangerous encounters with other wildlife such as snake, spiders,
Speaker 2: disease carrying insects, even bears and wildcats, or even mundane
Speaker 2: threats such as falling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're like out hiking, you could potentially fall
Speaker 1: and break a leg and then be far away from
Speaker 1: people and not have a way to necessarily get help.
Speaker 1: So there's you know, there are some risks that come
Speaker 1: with that, so just yeah, be careful. And as we said,
Speaker 1: like you know, there's a lot of other wildlife out
Speaker 1: there that are not just birds and they are not
Speaker 1: so concerned about staying away from you. So things to consider. Yeah,
Speaker 1: another consideration, depending on where your values are at here,
Speaker 1: is that if there were enough people who did this
Speaker 1: activity regularly, Let's just imagine everyone on Earth got into
Speaker 1: this all at the same time, it could result in
Speaker 1: like excessive tourism and flocking. No pun intended, but I
Speaker 1: appreciate that it came to me that quickly flocking to
Speaker 1: areas where they're looking for birds that ultimately result in
Speaker 1: like a greater disturbance of that habitat and the birds
Speaker 1: that would otherwise frequent that habitat, and now it's crowded
Speaker 1: by too many people. So you can imagine that, like,
Speaker 1: it's great that people want to do this, it's cool
Speaker 1: that people are going out into nature, and if there
Speaker 1: was this huge surge in people doing this all at once,
Speaker 1: actually be really disruptive. So that could potentially be another
Speaker 1: like sort of risk here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and some people are willing to sacrifice sleep and
Speaker 2: adequate nutrition to go out and watch for birds, which
Speaker 2: is why a Ram brought up bringing snacks out and
Speaker 2: stuff like that with you as part of this. This
Speaker 2: could result in adverse health outcomes and relatedly sort of,
Speaker 2: the cost can be extremely high if choosing to purchase
Speaker 2: high end equipment. So you might get into a hobby
Speaker 2: and you might really get into it, and then you
Speaker 2: end up spending more money than it's necessary because you're
Speaker 2: kind of like pulled so deeply in this habit. I can,
Speaker 2: as somebody who is a musician, I can speak to
Speaker 2: that very well. Music equipment gets real expensive, real quick.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. As one of the chief complaints about
Speaker 1: my board gaming hobby is how much I have spent
Speaker 1: on board games, not just the games, but then like
Speaker 1: the accessories for the games, and buying sleeves for the cards,
Speaker 1: and buying the upgraded components and buying the neoprene mats
Speaker 1: and then buying all the expansions, and.
Speaker 2: It just hobbies are expensive.
Speaker 1: Hobbies are expensive. Yeah, it's a thing. They can be,
Speaker 1: they can't yeah, fair, Okay, So why do people bird. Well,
Speaker 1: they're a wide range of purported benefits for birding, and
Speaker 1: most of these are actually kind of psychologically oriented. So
Speaker 1: let's get in get into the reasons that people like
Speaker 1: to bird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so people report that the sense of being in
Speaker 2: nature tends to improve mood, foster relaxation, and impart a
Speaker 2: sense of mindfulness and a respect for nature. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is just stever. When that's stever when lifestyle for sure,
Speaker 2: Like it's like just being in it and connected like
Speaker 2: that man was the most jovial person I've ever seen
Speaker 2: in my life. Now research backs us up as well, So, like,
Speaker 2: I think it's important to know that. So twenty twenty
Speaker 2: one meta analysis found that people who participated in quote
Speaker 2: nature based interventions recorded improvements in depressive moods, anxiety, improving
Speaker 2: positive affect, and decreasing quote negative affect. And people are
Speaker 2: generally drawn to green, natural spaces and tend to feel
Speaker 2: better when spending time outdoors. This is actually something I
Speaker 2: learned in my PhD program that there is there was
Speaker 2: a branch, or is a branch of psychology called environmental
Speaker 2: psychology that focuses on this. Like they use is a
Speaker 2: lot of this as part of the treatment modality or
Speaker 2: the treatment space, not like that, like they'll do therapy
Speaker 2: in nature or like connect with natures like a part
Speaker 2: of a foundational piece of that theoretical orientation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a whole Like it's called the biophilia hypothesis.
Speaker 1: I've wanted to unpack it specifically as an episode at
Speaker 1: some point on this show, and maybe we still will,
Speaker 1: but because I feel like it goes too far. But
Speaker 1: the premise of it actually makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: It's that humans are essentially like we are drawn to
Speaker 1: natural spaces. We're drawn to we like looking at mountains
Speaker 1: and vistas, we like looking at pictures of trees and flowers,
Speaker 1: we like beaches, we like places outside, and we like
Speaker 1: places with a lot of green. And it makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense. We are animals, we evolved in those spaces,
Speaker 1: so we actually tend to find just general psychological happiness
Speaker 1: and like improvement when we find ourselves in those spaces.
Speaker 1: And the research is there, like it's it shows that
Speaker 1: this is generally the case. Yeah, not ignoring the fact
Speaker 1: that we are in fact animals and that we evolved
Speaker 1: in nature, and that nature is still a very important
Speaker 1: part of who we are like if we try to
Speaker 1: divorce ourselves from it completely, I think we would struggle
Speaker 1: with that in a lot of ways and ultimately try
Speaker 1: to end up recreating version. Like people buy fake plants
Speaker 1: and put them in their houses because they want to
Speaker 1: have green around like it looks nice, right, Like it's
Speaker 1: a thing they're attracted to. So anyway, so that's just
Speaker 1: the thing. There's also the fact another reason that people
Speaker 1: why people do this, a benefit that they get out
Speaker 1: of this, I think you could put it in that
Speaker 1: category is that when people do go out and do birding,
Speaker 1: they tend to exert some exercise. They'll frequently hike to
Speaker 1: a place to look for birds. They're usually going out
Speaker 1: into some fresh air, and they tend to relax while
Speaker 1: they're sitting there, noticing the surroundings, and therefore they will
Speaker 1: experience a more profound mindfulness, which can have some moodless
Speaker 1: lifting effects as well as the fact that they're relaxed.
Speaker 1: People will do this often with a partner or a group,
Speaker 1: and that comes with some positive social interactions and all
Speaker 1: of these variable things that are likely part of what
Speaker 1: has resulted in improved mood when people go out and
Speaker 1: do birding is that they're getting exercise, they're with people,
Speaker 1: they're a nice relaxed, calm space with like kind of
Speaker 1: leaving your stress and work worries behind and you're just
Speaker 1: kind of doing something just to do something that is fun,
Speaker 1: and you also get to like see some really pretty nature.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, But the birds themselves are also an important
Speaker 2: ingredient here. So in the twenty eighteen study surveyed UK
Speaker 2: citizens' reactions to fifty different bird sounds and found that
Speaker 2: many bird sounds with certain characteristics were highly rated at
Speaker 2: having a restorative effect, meaning people found that simply hearing
Speaker 2: some bird songs created a feeling of restoration and peacefulness. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think actually when we tend to try to simulate
Speaker 1: an outdoor environment and we're creating like a peaceful like
Speaker 1: forest sort of sound, there is going to be bird
Speaker 1: call happening at some part in that. There's you know
Speaker 1: a little chirps and whistles and stuff that is part
Speaker 1: of that ambiance and that I think people found find
Speaker 1: generally relaxing most definitely. I think further in understanding why
Speaker 1: people out here doing this is there is a somewhat
Speaker 1: game like experience here to have the opportunity to observe
Speaker 1: a bird you've never seen before, for example, as you're
Speaker 1: sort of out there looking around for something new. It's
Speaker 1: sort of like Pokemon Go in the real world, Like
Speaker 1: you can go out into the world and you might
Speaker 1: be lucky enough to stumble upon some rare bird you've
Speaker 1: never seen before, and then you get to add that
Speaker 1: to your list. So there's like kind of this fun,
Speaker 1: challenging element of it. And we will talk about like
Speaker 1: in a specific challenge that people do take on that's
Speaker 1: an actual competition, but for the most part, like you're
Speaker 1: just sort of like, oh, this is so exciting. I
Speaker 1: haven't seen this one. I get to write that down,
Speaker 1: or even if you have seen it, like oh cool,
Speaker 1: it's another one of those like I love getting to
Speaker 1: see that type of bird. I'm happy this. Like whoever
Speaker 1: gets tired of looking at hummingbirds? Conservatives probably, but like
Speaker 1: normal people like or just the every time they see them,
Speaker 1: you get to be excited because there's such amazing birds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Now many people report that it is almost
Speaker 2: addicting to spend time out in nature and have an
Speaker 2: opportunity to observe the various birds around them and add
Speaker 2: to their notes about observations they make. Commonly, they report
Speaker 2: that the more you do it, the more you want
Speaker 2: to do it.
Speaker 1: I understand this, I do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can relate, by the way.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've mentioned, but there's like a lot
Speaker 1: of quail here. Have you seen quail?
Speaker 2: I'm sure that I have, But it's one of those
Speaker 2: things I just don't know a bit about. I think
Speaker 2: I probably assume that they're doves.
Speaker 1: Well, so quail have the like the weird little feather
Speaker 1: off the front of their head that sort of hangs
Speaker 1: in front of them like an angler fish like quailman, Yes,
Speaker 1: exactly like Quailmanda is correct. That's the whole reason for
Speaker 1: the belt. And they can fly, but they prefer to run,
Speaker 1: and so most of them stay on the ground. And
Speaker 1: so when you see quail, they'll often be in a
Speaker 1: little group, because it's usually a family. You have a
Speaker 1: parent and then a little baby's and they'll go running
Speaker 1: across the road and there's like a little trail of them,
Speaker 1: a little trail of quail, and it's so so cute.
Speaker 1: They're such cute birds. But anyway, I love that just
Speaker 1: noting things are around me. Others report that as a burder,
Speaker 1: you are likely to gain a greater appreciation for nature
Speaker 1: and the spaces in which you tend to observe birds,
Speaker 1: and therefore be more supportive of kinds of causes that
Speaker 1: would be preservation of wildlife areas. You might donate to
Speaker 1: them more, you might elect officials who promise to protect them.
Speaker 1: You might go to events and activities dedicated to the
Speaker 1: preservation of those spaces. So a lot of people have
Speaker 1: said that, like they get into the hobby and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden they're like kind of activists for like
Speaker 1: preserving these wildlife spaces. This is kind of cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a lovely outcome, Like what a great
Speaker 2: side effect to that. And also if you're wondering, Yeah,
Speaker 2: but why birds? I mean, I know people who are
Speaker 2: afraid of birds, so like, but I want to talk
Speaker 2: about this for a second, Like consider the alternatives here.
Speaker 2: What other animals are out there that are easy to spot,
Speaker 2: that have a great variety of color, shape, sizes, and sounds.
Speaker 2: Are different species of squirrels so different that you could
Speaker 2: easily spot dozens of different species and recognize their uniqueness
Speaker 2: and a given environment. Ground animals are generally harder to
Speaker 2: spot and usually less brightly colored and pretty universally unlike
Speaker 2: the remarkable diversity available in the different bird species. Also,
Speaker 2: their size is very conducive to tracking. Insects arguably have
Speaker 2: a similar level of diversity and availability, if not more,
Speaker 2: but they are often more difficult to spot to their
Speaker 2: size and the fact that many have specifically evolved highly
Speaker 2: camouflaged appearances, and they rarely announce themselves at least nowhere
Speaker 2: nearly assaliently as birds, and some of them bite you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but birds are an ideal candidate for tracking and recording.
Speaker 2: And I was thinking about this with fish too. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: sea life is great, and like aquatic marine life is amazing,
Speaker 2: but we don't breathe underwater, so you have to have
Speaker 2: a specific apparatus to be able to do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it's like I was thinking, as
Speaker 1: like what else, I'm like, why birds? Why didn't people
Speaker 1: get into like observing mice or something, Yeah, and whatever
Speaker 1: it might be. And I'm like, well, I mean, first
Speaker 1: of all, like, yeah, ground animals tend to hide. They
Speaker 1: tend to be the same color as the ground, so
Speaker 1: that they blend in there, might be too small, they
Speaker 1: maybe too big, like you're not going out generally and
Speaker 1: trying to spot as many different bears as you can,
Speaker 1: and then even the ones where there is like a
Speaker 1: lot of them, there's not usually the kind of variety
Speaker 1: like birds. The variety and sizes, shapes and colors of
Speaker 1: birds is staggering, like how different they can look from
Speaker 1: one another. They really offer like the ideal candidate of like,
Speaker 1: if you're gonna go out and try to observe wildlife
Speaker 1: and you want to see like a wide diversity of
Speaker 1: a type of wildlife, like you can hardly do better
Speaker 1: than birds, right, They're just kind of perfect for this.
Speaker 1: So it does kind of make sense, like why do
Speaker 1: people get into birds and not something else. I'm like,
Speaker 1: there's nothing better than birds for this particular thing that
Speaker 1: people are trying to do right right exactly they consideration,
Speaker 1: and there's nothing worse than ads.
Speaker 2: On the spectrum of good to bad. Birds being best,
Speaker 2: ads being worst.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, all right, we're back. We've been describing
Speaker 1: like why birds make such good candidates for a thing
Speaker 1: to go out in nature and track and observe if
Speaker 1: you're going to do that sort of thing, And we're
Speaker 1: broadly in the category right now of why people do this,
Speaker 1: what are the benefits for this? And another thing here
Speaker 1: is that there are social organizations dedicated to this hobby,
Speaker 1: because there are millions and millions, tens of millions in fact,
Speaker 1: of people who do this in the United States alone,
Speaker 1: let alone in other countries who also have organizations who
Speaker 1: do this. But there are special organizations dedicated to this,
Speaker 1: and they provide information and support for people who are
Speaker 1: looking to enter the hobby. So there is a built
Speaker 1: in social structure that might create an opportunity important opportunities
Speaker 1: to socialize with other people. This can be great for
Speaker 1: older people who like just kind of want to have
Speaker 1: a group of people they can make friends with, they
Speaker 1: can talk about birds with, they maybe go out together,
Speaker 1: or they meet up at things, and they otherwise are
Speaker 1: kind of board sitting at home watching TV like this
Speaker 1: gives something to do. Can also be true for younger
Speaker 1: people who just maybe have a hard time socializing that
Speaker 1: they have a shared interest in those group, so they
Speaker 1: can make some friends that way. And it's just like
Speaker 1: interacting with other humans, meeting people from different walks of
Speaker 1: life and seeing their perspective on stuff, like there's just
Speaker 1: it's a cool opportunity and socialization such an important part
Speaker 1: of who we are as a species. So that's just
Speaker 1: another benefit that people get out of participating in the
Speaker 1: birding hobby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, most definitely. In these and other aforementioned reasons are
Speaker 2: hypothesized as the explanation for why this hobby tends to
Speaker 2: attract older adults. They have more time, more disposable income,
Speaker 2: and tend to appreciate things like slowing down and taking
Speaker 2: in nature more. Although as we said, many younger people
Speaker 2: are realizing the same benefits and starting to kind of
Speaker 2: really come into the fold a little bit.
Speaker 1: And finally, I think it's worth pointing out, you know,
Speaker 1: we are in America, the most pro capitalist place on earth.
Speaker 1: The finances here birding is a fairly significant economic boon.
Speaker 1: So for those to naysayers who maybe also find themselves
Speaker 1: on the very pro economic side of things, there's a
Speaker 1: lot to be gained here. Although you can find birds anywhere,
Speaker 1: the more dedicated hobbyists will travel to see specific birds,
Speaker 1: and sometimes they'll travel a lot. Travel and lodging accounted
Speaker 1: for fourteen billion dollars cumulatively spent by birders alone in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. Like that, many people traveling that much.
Speaker 1: Collectively spent fourteen billion dollars. They also spent ninety three
Speaker 1: billion dollars on their equipment for birding, to a grand
Speaker 1: total of one hundred and seven billion dollars. And as
Speaker 1: a part of that, they're buying these tickets, these these
Speaker 1: they're buying hotel rooms, they're buying equipment. They spent about
Speaker 1: thirty one billion dollars that was collected in taxes. So like,
Speaker 1: of the money that they spent, thirty one billion dollars
Speaker 1: was collected in taxes as well. Not to mention, they
Speaker 1: supported one point four million jobs and generated ninety point
Speaker 1: two billion dollars of labor income. So this is a
Speaker 1: hobby that is also very good for the tourism industry,
Speaker 1: local jobs, and for wherever in the spectrum you fall.
Speaker 1: The taxes collected by the government. So like, people choose
Speaker 1: to go out and do this thing, and the fact
Speaker 1: that they did that helps support other government functions as well.
Speaker 1: And so like this it's kind of a it's its
Speaker 1: own economy, this whole section of this hobby that's wild.
Speaker 2: Now, there is something in the birding community called the
Speaker 2: Big Year, and there's a specific activity of some burders
Speaker 2: take on that. It's called a Big Year, which begins
Speaker 2: at twelve oh one am January first and lasts until
Speaker 2: eleven fifty nine pm on December thirty first. During this time,
Speaker 2: birders dedicate an entire year to observing and recording as
Speaker 2: many bird species as possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they take a year like this is like
Speaker 1: we're doing this all day, every day for a year.
Speaker 1: It's called the Big Year. The American Birding Association also
Speaker 1: called ABA nice fair.
Speaker 2: That's how we got here, That's why we did That's
Speaker 2: why we did this episode.
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, it's like what is ABA? And then
Speaker 1: it'll just cascaded from there? What is ABA in addition
Speaker 1: to what ABA already was? But anyway, the American Birding
Speaker 1: Association or ABA, they create a checklist for birds eligible
Speaker 1: to be tracked, and then birders get this checklist and
Speaker 1: they compete to complete as much of the checklist as possible.
Speaker 1: In the United States, there are some ground rules for this,
Speaker 1: but they will usually travel extensively, recording hundreds of flights
Speaker 1: and driving thousands of miles, and they might be specifically
Speaker 1: organizing their travel to account for migration patterns and like
Speaker 1: where people are reporting sightings of specific birds. They're like
Speaker 1: dedicating time to this to try and get as many
Speaker 1: birds as they possibly can recorded to their checklist.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they have an extensive list of rules, including
Speaker 2: geographic boundaries and qualifications for what counts. Like you can't
Speaker 2: go and do an exotic pet store and write down
Speaker 2: all of their imported birds. That would be cheating. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there are lots of rules, which is really interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like birds that are not native to the United
Speaker 1: States don't count, or like if they're extinct. Now they're like,
Speaker 1: you can't record this because it doesn't exist. So there's
Speaker 1: some certain rules about what doesn doesn't count and when
Speaker 1: if you think about it, it does ultimately make sense.
Speaker 1: Obviously they don't. Yeah, they don't want people cheating, and
Speaker 1: really there's not very much incentive to cheat because there's
Speaker 1: no monetary prize. It's really just bracking rights. It is
Speaker 1: considered extremely prestigious to win the competition by completing the
Speaker 1: most amount of the checklist, like more than anyone else
Speaker 1: does that year. But you want to complete as much
Speaker 1: as you possibly can. And as far as I was
Speaker 1: able to find, no one has ever completed the entire checklist.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So it's not like a race to the end. It's
Speaker 1: a find as much as you possibly can, good luck
Speaker 1: type thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, there is evidently a documentary about this called
Speaker 2: appropriately enough Big Year, which we have not seen, but
Speaker 2: Abraham fully intends to watch at some point, and I
Speaker 2: think I would like to too, Like this has made me
Speaker 2: want to do a better job of birding in my area,
Speaker 2: just because I think that Florida has just such a
Speaker 2: unique ecosystem. But yeah, I mean, I think this is
Speaker 2: just super fascinating and I would love to see this documentary.
Speaker 2: I'm super curious about like what could be recorded in this,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, I'm given to understand it was like some
Speaker 1: college students or something and they're like, we're going to
Speaker 1: do the Big Year, and that they sort of recorded
Speaker 1: themselves doing it.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I definitely want to see it. It sounds like
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. I've heard really good things about
Speaker 1: it so far.
Speaker 2: So cool. Good.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's what we have to say about birding.
Speaker 1: Came in a little bit shorter than our normal full
Speaker 1: length discussions, but yeah, very fun, I would say. You know,
Speaker 1: for those of you listening that are have done this
Speaker 1: or you're thinking about doing this, or you know somebody
Speaker 1: who does this, write in tell us about it. You
Speaker 1: can email us directly info at WWDWWD podcast dot com.
Speaker 1: You can also reach us on the social media platforms,
Speaker 1: and we love to hear from you. Tell us your
Speaker 1: thoughts on this interesting little hobby that people do. You know,
Speaker 1: i'd say when we're thinking about the various unpacking, this
Speaker 1: is sort of functional analysis type thing. I think we
Speaker 1: kind of said the things like, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: social reinforcers here. I think there's some inherent sort of
Speaker 1: puzzly solvingness that goes on to like completing things. I
Speaker 1: think there is just the experience of novelty, the inherent
Speaker 1: reinforcement that can come from exercise and being around nature.
Speaker 1: So there's like a lot of those sort of built
Speaker 1: in things that are all part of what we described
Speaker 1: when enumerating the benefits there. But yeah, I think that's
Speaker 1: what we have to say about this. If you're joining
Speaker 1: us for the first time, you may not know, but
Speaker 1: at the end of our full length discussions we recommend
Speaker 1: some things. They're just random things unrelated to the topic
Speaker 1: that we were discussing. Most of the time that is
Speaker 1: the case today. So stick around. We're going to get
Speaker 1: through the credits and then we'll get to some fun recommendations.
Speaker 1: And I think we're right about the time that maybe
Speaker 1: we'll punctuate the end of this discussion with some ads.
Speaker 1: Do the credits and then recommend some things.
Speaker 2: I love that idea.
Speaker 1: All right, we're back. We are going to recommend things.
Speaker 1: But first I would like to say thank you all
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Speaker 1: the people who have earned that includes Mike m Megan,
Speaker 1: Mike T, Justin, Kim Brad, Stephanie, Brian, Ashley, Kiara and Charlie.
Speaker 1: Thank you all so much for being so wonderful.
Speaker 2: You're beautiful and we love you.
Speaker 1: Indeed. Writing in fact checking from Shane and myself, thank
Speaker 1: you for recording with me today. Shane, Hey, thanks for
Speaker 1: having me. And I have more people who help me
Speaker 1: on my team and I need them. Social Media coordinator
Speaker 1: is Emma Wilson, and our person in the chair who
Speaker 1: does all the good sounds is God Emperor. Executive producer
Speaker 1: genius extraordinaire Justin who is the best producer ever.
Speaker 2: He truly is couldn't ask for a better producer.
Speaker 1: It could not. Anyway. I think that's what we have
Speaker 1: to say about those things. Is there anything that I
Speaker 1: forgot or that you would like to add before we
Speaker 1: recommend things?
Speaker 2: Uh? No, I think that covers it.
Speaker 1: Cue the music.
Speaker 2: Recommendations. My recommendation is a movie that just came out,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's an interesting one because it's not
Speaker 2: everybody's cup of tea. And that is the most recent
Speaker 2: movie that the crew from Jackass put out called Jackass
Speaker 2: Best and last. Now here's the thing. This is for
Speaker 2: a particular generation, right, This is for like people who
Speaker 2: grew up watching these guys get hurt constantly. This is
Speaker 2: the last one. And it's actually like shockingly emotional because
Speaker 2: they kind of talk about why this is the last one,
Speaker 2: and like they're wrapping up and they're just kind of
Speaker 2: moving on with their lives, and Johnny Knoxville gets like
Speaker 2: really upset a couple of times, like really like cries.
Speaker 2: But I was thinking about this and I was like,
Speaker 2: you know, watching the movie, the stunts are some like
Speaker 2: old clips from when they were younger. They kind of
Speaker 2: do like a this is like a highlights reel plus
Speaker 2: some new things, and and you know it's gross, of course,
Speaker 2: and like you just kind of go, oh, why they're
Speaker 2: getting hurt? Oh my god, it's like it's so bad.
Speaker 2: And I looked it up and between the main cast
Speaker 2: members of Jackass, they have estimated thirty eight million dollars
Speaker 2: in medical bills wow, from these stunts, with Johnny Knoxville
Speaker 2: having the most, close to ten million dollars between sixteen
Speaker 2: concussions and a brain hemorrhage and then danger Air and
Speaker 2: having seven point three eight million due to three broken necks.
Speaker 2: So these guys are you know. The thing is is
Speaker 2: like the people think that they're stupid and they do
Speaker 2: these things to be like this, that and the other.
Speaker 2: But my favorite thing about these movies and these shows
Speaker 2: is not the stunts. It's the fact that they're a
Speaker 2: group of friends who just kind of play off on
Speaker 2: one another and encourage one another and support one another.
Speaker 2: And it's really, this is gonna sound ridiculous, but Jackass
Speaker 2: is really just about their friendship and like how important
Speaker 2: friendship is and how powerful friendship can be, and how
Speaker 2: loving and supporting your friends can be. As gross as
Speaker 2: and stupid as they can be. So anyway, I thought
Speaker 2: it was really great, and it like kind of made
Speaker 2: me meditate on friendship a little bit and just I
Speaker 2: don't though. It was a lot of fun. It was
Speaker 2: a lot of fun to watch, and definitely some nostalgia
Speaker 2: to go with it, you know.
Speaker 1: Hun, all right, Yeah, they've been doing these for a
Speaker 1: long time, so I definitely got to imagine that as
Speaker 1: they're getting up there in age, it's just getting harder
Speaker 1: and harder to justify doing any of this. And as
Speaker 1: you said, they maybe make a lot of money from
Speaker 1: these movies, but I'm not sure that the amount that
Speaker 1: they make helps offset the cost so much of their
Speaker 1: medical bills. Right, at some point, it's time to throw
Speaker 1: in the towel. And I can appreciate that. I hadn't
Speaker 1: really plans to check this out, but you sold it
Speaker 1: really well, and now I'm curious enough that I very
Speaker 1: well might.
Speaker 2: So it's fun. It's fun, it's wild, but it's fun,
Speaker 2: all right.
Speaker 1: All right, that's Jackass, the best and the last. I'm
Speaker 1: recommending an album. This is the most recent release by
Speaker 1: the metalcore or hardcore or metal band, I don't know,
Speaker 1: whatever genre, I don't care August Burns Red. I'm a
Speaker 1: big fan of these guys. I have been for a
Speaker 1: long time, somewhat ironically, but this last album they put
Speaker 1: out because I felt like I kind of fell off
Speaker 1: the train for a while. I wasn't really checking out
Speaker 1: stuff they were releasing. Then I saw a music video
Speaker 1: for this upcoming album and I thought, I'll check that out.
Speaker 1: Let's see what it looks like. And I was like
Speaker 1: really impressed. I was like, Wow, this song was actually
Speaker 1: really fun. Then they released more and every one of
Speaker 1: them I just really liked. So I and then the
Speaker 1: full album came out and I've been listening to it
Speaker 1: a lot, and I'm in here thinking like, this is
Speaker 1: maybe the best thing they have done in almost twenty
Speaker 1: years in my opinion. Wow, I think this is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite albums that they have ever released. It
Speaker 1: feels like they're sort of back to the thing that
Speaker 1: I liked about them there. There's just there's more creativity,
Speaker 1: there's sort of more unique approaches to things. They're kind
Speaker 1: of doing stuff that's a little outside the box. That
Speaker 1: feels like they're kind of going back to like let's
Speaker 1: do raw, let's do fast, let's do try and come
Speaker 1: up with something we haven't really done before. Sure, I've
Speaker 1: really really enjoyed it. So if you're into that kind
Speaker 1: of thing, you know, it's screaming, it's heavy, it's that
Speaker 1: sort of thing. But Season of Surrender by August Burns Red,
Speaker 1: I think is one of the best things they have
Speaker 1: done in a couple of decades. And so if you
Speaker 1: like old August Burns Red, like specifically Messengers, that was
Speaker 1: my favorite album by them. This is up there. This
Speaker 1: is pretty close. I recommend checking that out.
Speaker 2: Beautiful. I love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So the movie Jackass, Best and Last and
Speaker 1: the album Season of Surrendered by August Burns Read. Those
Speaker 1: are recommendations. Go check those out. I guess, and then
Speaker 1: or don't whatever. I can't make you do anything, sure,
Speaker 1: but I think that's what you have to say about
Speaker 1: all of that. So we can close this one out.
Speaker 1: Is there anything you'd like to add that I forgot
Speaker 1: before we sayah, goodbyes.
Speaker 2: Nope, not today.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, thank you all for listening. This is Abraham
Speaker 1: and this is Shane. We're out.
Speaker 2: Siya.
Speaker 1: You've been listening to Why We Do what We Do.
Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
Speaker 2: going to WWD WWD podcast dot com, Thanks for listening
Speaker 2: and we hope you have an awesome day.