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<v Speaker 1>We cross paths with many people throughout our day. Generally,

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<v Speaker 1>when you meet a stranger at the bus stop, it's

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<v Speaker 1>not a memorable experience. But for the encounter of Fred

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<v Speaker 1>and Rose, that was not the case. These two meeting

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<v Speaker 1>ended in at least a dozen horrific and sexually motivated killings.

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<v Speaker 1>You could say if these two didn't cross pass, the

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<v Speaker 1>world would be a better place.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and this is Wicked and Grim,

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<v Speaker 2>a true crime podcast. Morning podcast listeners just question that much.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you got a drink? Oh? You started again? Fuck?

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<v Speaker 2>I did? We don't have high. I don't even know

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<v Speaker 2>what's going on for you for a fucking loop.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I didn't hear you clicked the button and then

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<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden, it's like I saw the time

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<v Speaker 1>rolling and I.

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<v Speaker 2>Was like, oh my gosh, I'm flustered.

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<v Speaker 1>Like ah, it's almost like the curtain came open and

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<v Speaker 1>I wasn't fucking.

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<v Speaker 2>Ready, clearly because you're just rambling right now. Welcome. How's

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<v Speaker 2>it going everyone. We are having a fantastic day today.

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<v Speaker 2>We are as we record this, we got some news

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<v Speaker 2>we do.

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<v Speaker 1>We have some very exciting news, and we don't have

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<v Speaker 1>a to Chink because Ben did that over watch to Chink.

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<v Speaker 2>To Chink, to Chink an opening of a can to Chink,

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<v Speaker 2>same thing. Get a shirt the Sad to.

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<v Speaker 1>Chink because Ben opened it over onres We did pre show.

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<v Speaker 2>We did. But what was your big announcement? I quit?

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<v Speaker 2>You quit your job, the job, not the podcast. Oh

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<v Speaker 2>my god, I wonder I people were just like, yeah, no,

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<v Speaker 2>not the podcast. Today I put in my official resignation

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<v Speaker 2>from my job. From here, I am going full time

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<v Speaker 2>into video and media creation, and by media creation that

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<v Speaker 2>also encompasses podcasting. So we've got a lot coming down

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<v Speaker 2>the pipe for you, guys. I'm super nervous. I'm sure

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<v Speaker 2>Nicole's super nervous as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Quite as much as you, because I have been. I

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<v Speaker 1>kind of mentioned to the full time of working for

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<v Speaker 1>myself already, and I know it can work.

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<v Speaker 2>So touche. Yeah. Well, I've worked at the same company

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<v Speaker 2>for over a decade and in the same industry for

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<v Speaker 2>like over sixteen years. Yeah, so it's a big day

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<v Speaker 2>for you. It's a big deal, super scary. But we

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<v Speaker 2>have five weeks notice that I gave. The nice thing

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<v Speaker 2>is I have that luxury of giving lots of notice

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<v Speaker 2>to my employer, who's been quite kind to me throughout

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<v Speaker 2>this whole process. So I have that luxury of delivering

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<v Speaker 2>that to them as I transition on my own time

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<v Speaker 2>into this new job, and it'll be working for myself.

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<v Speaker 1>But so the cool thing is will well, Ben, we'll

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<v Speaker 1>have more time to put towards this podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was awesome. A big thing is things like

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<v Speaker 2>social media and Patreon as well, because we feel like

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<v Speaker 2>we could be doing a lot better for Patreon, especially

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<v Speaker 2>when it comes to like answering a little bit sooner

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<v Speaker 2>and stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, and our comments on Instagram, it just sometimes is

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<v Speaker 1>a bit overwhelming.

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<v Speaker 2>Facebook, Instagram, all those messages and comments we get a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>We used to be really good and on top of them,

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<v Speaker 1>but lately it's been a little bit harder to.

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<v Speaker 2>Keep on top of them. Well, we get way more

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<v Speaker 2>than we used to, so that doesn't help. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>because of you guys supporting this show, you have given

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<v Speaker 2>us the proof of concept. I couldn't figure out that

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<v Speaker 2>word earlier. You've given us the proof of concept to

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<v Speaker 2>show that we can go full time with things like

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<v Speaker 2>this podcast. So that's where I come in, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going full time with it. So thank you so much

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<v Speaker 2>for your support. It means the absolute world. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 2>today is thanks to all of you guys out there,

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<v Speaker 2>so thank you. It's very exciting day. Yes, it's awesome,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm super fucking nervous, super nervous. It's gonna be good.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not take risks. I don't take no.

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<v Speaker 1>Ben's not a very big risk ticker at all. Actually,

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<v Speaker 1>so the fact that we've live in a tiny home

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes amazes me that you were like.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, yeah, let's do it. Well, anytime I take risks,

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<v Speaker 2>I usually have a safety net, right, and it's the

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<v Speaker 2>tiny home. There's always the backup of oh, you sell

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<v Speaker 2>it and you go buy something else or rent or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>You lose a little bit of money, sure, whatever, and

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<v Speaker 2>you just move on. Yeah with this, what if this

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't work out? Well, then you go back and get

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<v Speaker 2>another job. Yeah, but potentially pay wise, hour wise, where

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<v Speaker 2>how long will that take? There's no safety net, it's

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<v Speaker 2>just more questions.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but then there's questions sometimes if you don't take

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<v Speaker 1>that leap as well.

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<v Speaker 2>That's true, and that was one of the big things

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<v Speaker 2>that really pushed It's like, well, well I regret it

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<v Speaker 2>one day right now, We're in the position to be

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<v Speaker 2>able to do it. So do it, yolo, just do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Just Nike is now a sponsor of this podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Wish she's kidding, Nike, reach out, we're calling you.

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<v Speaker 1>On a very side note, Ben is getting a haircut

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<v Speaker 1>on a SAT. Saturday. So for any of you that

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<v Speaker 1>I can't remember what episode, Ben and I had a

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<v Speaker 1>bet that he would not grow a man bun, but

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<v Speaker 1>he was in the process of growing a man bun.

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<v Speaker 2>Nicole caved. I caved. I just had to. She's telling

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<v Speaker 2>me to cut it. I would grow it. But one

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<v Speaker 2>of the stipulations was if she told me to cut it,

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<v Speaker 2>I will, But that just means I win.

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<v Speaker 1>No one needs to see that shit. So yeah, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're putting a stop to it.

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<v Speaker 2>You're not wrong. So I'm gonna get a haircut and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to look like a sloppy joke. You

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<v Speaker 2>should at least maybe post what you have going on.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I will, I'll post that over it. I'll post

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<v Speaker 2>it before and after my haircut. How's that. There you go,

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<v Speaker 2>so you can see the difference. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and then I think the last the last order

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<v Speaker 1>of business here is to thank our patrons.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, love, patrons, I had to open that up in

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<v Speaker 2>my phone here because you sent it to me. I

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<v Speaker 2>sure did. That's that's one of Nicole's jobs, is she

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<v Speaker 2>sends me to patrons the list. She checked tracks where

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<v Speaker 2>we were last time, and we.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanked because Ben's is the names because he just is

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<v Speaker 1>better at pronouncing ship.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, we delegate jobs, and Nicole's doing her fantastic job,

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<v Speaker 2>and now it's time for me to do mine. Do

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<v Speaker 2>it sandcastic as well? All right, maybe I should should

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<v Speaker 2>I put on like a radio announcer voice? What kind

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<v Speaker 2>of voice? Should I do it in? Like a radio

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<v Speaker 2>like an NHL game, like like a screaming fad like?

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<v Speaker 1>No, like you were like a broadcaster like, ladies and gentlemen,

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<v Speaker 1>Is that a broadcaster?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean kind of, I guess, yeah, a broadcasting voice. Whatever, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll do some sort of broadcasting voice. All right, ladies

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<v Speaker 2>and gentlemen. So we have several individuals to thank over

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<v Speaker 2>on our patreons. Starting we have Shay, then moving on,

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<v Speaker 2>we have Yukio Wolf, Pilo, Katie Hemphil, Beth Monroe, and

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<v Speaker 2>Penny Roberts. Thank you so much to all you out

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<v Speaker 2>there joining our Patreon supports us in a way you

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<v Speaker 2>can't even imagine. So thank you so much. We really

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<v Speaker 2>appreciate you. And uh now, so that we got that

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<v Speaker 2>list out of the way, we're gonna move on here

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<v Speaker 2>and we're gonna play some wicked and Grim coming up

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<v Speaker 2>now on ninety four point eight the True Crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, I feel like that was that.

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<v Speaker 1>That didn't It was good, but it didn't sound quite

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<v Speaker 1>as genuine, So thank you to those patrons of It

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<v Speaker 1>didn't feel as genuine, but it was just fun. So

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying thank you again in a normal voices.

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<v Speaker 2>You guys are awesome. Radio is very quick paid.

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<v Speaker 1>It almost sounds like it's like auction, like an auction.

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<v Speaker 2>Not mere fast for allue. But I will go through

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<v Speaker 2>it proper this time. So we have Shay, Oh my gosh,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't have ki oh Wolf, Okay, Kalia, Pilo, Katie Hemphil,

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<v Speaker 2>Beth Monroe, Penny Roberts.

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<v Speaker 1>No.

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<v Speaker 2>I did want to go over again because it was

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<v Speaker 2>not sincere doing it in a radio.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it didn't like it came across as genuine, and

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<v Speaker 1>we're that's what we're all about here, is being as

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<v Speaker 1>as genuine as we can be.

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<v Speaker 2>So she told me to do the announcement. I know,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what. We did it, we explored it. It failed.

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<v Speaker 2>We're moving on, fucking move on, all right, We're I'm.

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<v Speaker 1>Gonna be nice as fuck. This is part one. This

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<v Speaker 1>is a part one, episode Part one, part one, And

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<v Speaker 1>you know what, I feel like, I stopped it.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what, I stopped in an asshole? Part Yeah

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<v Speaker 2>I did, But did you really?

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<v Speaker 1>Kind of?

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<v Speaker 2>You had to, you, some bitch.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyway, we're covering Fred and Rose West today.

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<v Speaker 2>Bell damped. It's about damp time. This is a doozy.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's a doozy of a case.

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<v Speaker 1>And we had a requested to us many times by

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<v Speaker 1>many people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's been one that we've had requested for like

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<v Speaker 2>over a year.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was like it was on my list, but

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't quite realize how large it was.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's pretty large. It's kind of consumed my life,

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<v Speaker 2>That's what she said.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is, uh this this should we should we go?

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<v Speaker 1>Goodness gracious, someone needs to control him over there.

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<v Speaker 2>He's in like a good mood. I'm in one hell

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<v Speaker 2>of a good mood. Yeah, I'm gonna sit back and

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<v Speaker 2>drink my drink. How's that you need something to keep

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<v Speaker 2>you busy? Over there? I do. I'm I'm over the

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<v Speaker 2>moon right now. So I'm sorry. If I seem like

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<v Speaker 2>a lot today, that's solely on me. Nicole is doing

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<v Speaker 2>a fantastic job.

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<v Speaker 1>I am just I just feel like everyone out there

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<v Speaker 1>send I should just like send help.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll send some sort of.

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<v Speaker 1>Like like I'll have to do a secret message that

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<v Speaker 1>I need help.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, just get fucking morse code by blinking on an

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<v Speaker 2>Instagram reel or some shit. I'm just kidding. It's all good. No,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a good day. It's a good day. Okay, ready,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean not really, but let's fucking do I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if I'll be able to sit still. I can't

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<v Speaker 2>control my excitement. No, I'm ready, let's do it, okay. So.

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<v Speaker 1>Frederick Walter Stephen West, otherwise known as Fred West, is

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<v Speaker 1>the person a lot of the story centers around. He

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<v Speaker 1>was born on September twenty ninth, nineteen Ford to one

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<v Speaker 1>Wow way back then in much Markele, which is a

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<v Speaker 1>village in England, to parents Walter Stephen West and Daisy

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<v Speaker 1>Hannah Hill. His father was a known disciplinary discipline.

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<v Speaker 2>Lah discipline in an area a disciplinary disciplinary.

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<v Speaker 1>I do want to say that sometimes my tongue just

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<v Speaker 1>like gets tied up all over the place. And his

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<v Speaker 1>mother was incredibly overprotective, especially over Fred, who was known

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<v Speaker 1>to be her favorite.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh favoritism of the children.

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<v Speaker 1>See, I think lots of times parents do maybe have

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<v Speaker 1>a favorite, but then that's not really something they like vocalize.

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<v Speaker 1>But it was known that Fred was the favorite, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think he was the favorite because he was. They

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<v Speaker 1>had had a child previously that unfortunately passed away, like

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<v Speaker 1>not very long after she gave birth to the baby,

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<v Speaker 1>and so Fred was like the first kid that survived,

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<v Speaker 1>and so they probably just had a whole bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>hope and stuff for him.

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah, I see that. But also I'm I mean

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<v Speaker 2>to be fair, to be fair, to be fair. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not a parent, so I could be speaking out a

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<v Speaker 2>context or ignorance here, but I think that it's completely

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<v Speaker 2>reasonable for a parent to have a favorite child. It

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean that you love any one child more than

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<v Speaker 2>the other. It just means that you might get along

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<v Speaker 2>with them better, one of the children better, you can

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<v Speaker 2>relate to them better, or they don't fucking scream in

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<v Speaker 2>the middle of the night like the other one does, like.

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<v Speaker 1>You know what I mean, And it's probably different stages too,

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<v Speaker 1>or exactly you kind of be like, oh, this kid

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<v Speaker 1>is actually being really good right now and this one's

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<v Speaker 1>not so.

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't I don't think, and I mean, one

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<v Speaker 2>of those kids could be more like you and the

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<v Speaker 2>other one like your spouse, which might annoy you. Who knows.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think anyone should feel guilty if that is

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<v Speaker 2>a case. I think that would be a completely normal thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I just got like a vision of like if I

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<v Speaker 1>had a kid and they were exactly like you, what

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<v Speaker 1>my life would be like.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a lot in that split second vision there

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<v Speaker 2>your life flashed before your eyes.

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<v Speaker 1>So basically, Fred and his mother were close close I understand.

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<v Speaker 1>Some say Fred seemed like any other young boy growing up,

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<v Speaker 1>his aunt eventually telling the press that he always or

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<v Speaker 1>he has always been such a nice boy. One neighbor

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<v Speaker 1>described him as a bit cheeky, a bit mouthy, but

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<v Speaker 1>that was the way the kids were, so kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like a normal description there from outsiders.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a little lippy, but whatever, the best of them.

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<v Speaker 1>At school, he had a hard time getting on with

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<v Speaker 1>the other kids. He also didn't do well in his classes.

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<v Speaker 1>He was good with his hands, but he struggled with

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<v Speaker 1>any academic work. By the time he left school, he

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<v Speaker 1>was only fifteen and he was barely literate, which is

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<v Speaker 1>kind of unfortunate.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean fifteen and was it nineteen forties.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Oh, I think a lot of people probably they

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<v Speaker 1>left school.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't think that's I think that's probably relatively normal.

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<v Speaker 1>But still being that age and he was in school

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<v Speaker 1>and he was still like kind of literate, so he

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<v Speaker 1>really struggled, right, Yeah. His only job prospects were working

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<v Speaker 1>as a farm hand, which is not necessarily a bad job.

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<v Speaker 2>No.

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<v Speaker 1>His social problems only grew worse as he became a

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<v Speaker 1>young adult and started going to youth clubs with his

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<v Speaker 1>younger brother John. After hearing his country accent, many at

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<v Speaker 1>the social clubs pegged him for a country boy and

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<v Speaker 1>either picked on him or just completely ignored him. The

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<v Speaker 1>plan was to meet girls, and though Fred wasn't exactly

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<v Speaker 1>a looker, he did have a bit of charm to him,

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<v Speaker 1>and that seemed to work on susceptible and inexperienced young women.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, yeah, okay, But.

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<v Speaker 1>His approach to women didn't exactly help him make many

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<v Speaker 1>friends either. From the start, Fred seemed to view women

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<v Speaker 1>in a different light than most people do. Asking for consent,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, wasn't necessarily in his vocabulary.

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<v Speaker 2>So he's your modern day douchebag alpha Chad. You're like

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<v Speaker 2>looking off the king. I'm thinking he's like your modern

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<v Speaker 2>day douche basically, No, because he doesn't really have much

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<v Speaker 2>going for him either. Yeah either, do like these douchebag

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<v Speaker 2>chad people. I don't know. I don't know, but he

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<v Speaker 2>just like you wouldn't ask he's worse. I would say

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<v Speaker 2>he's worse. He's worse, Okay, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So he He later explained, in a claim that was

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<v Speaker 1>denied by another of his brothers, that the way he

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<v Speaker 1>was like this was because his mother had taught him

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<v Speaker 1>and introduced him to sex when he was only twelve

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<v Speaker 1>years old. So he's saying that she sexually abused him.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's what I thought. Horrible. It's one thing to

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<v Speaker 2>like teach like the birds and the beast, yeah, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's another to teach teach the birds and the beast. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So he claimed this, but then he had and it's

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<v Speaker 1>claimed in many many articles. But then he did have

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<v Speaker 1>a brother later that denied this.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, but who knows. Maybe the brother wasn't even aware, Like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's very possible because the brother was younger than him,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's a lot of family dynamic situations where one

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<v Speaker 2>of the individuals is the subject of abuse where the

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<v Speaker 2>others aren't.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. He also said that he learned a lot about

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<v Speaker 1>sex from seeing his father rape his sisters when they

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<v Speaker 1>were living on the farm together.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh snap, this guy's grown up all fucking kinds of great.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, I know so exactly how much of this is

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<v Speaker 1>true and how much of it Fred was making up

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<v Speaker 1>to justify either his own failures with women or his

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<v Speaker 1>own terrible actions later is difficult to say, because after

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<v Speaker 1>talking with him for only a few minutes, it didn't

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<v Speaker 1>take many people long to figure out that Fred was

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<v Speaker 1>a pathological liar, and he'd often embellish or completely make

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00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:02.519
<v Speaker 1>ups stories about himself just to make him look good.

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<v Speaker 2>Cool.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I feel like some shit would have gone

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00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:09.879
<v Speaker 1>down in that house, for sure, but who knows to

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00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:10.399
<v Speaker 1>what extent?

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00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:13.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, if someone is a pathological liar, they

321
00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:16.240
<v Speaker 2>may not only be blowing things out of proportion, but

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00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:19.480
<v Speaker 2>making things up out of nowhere. Yeah, So it could

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<v Speaker 2>be just a perfectly normal household and he's making these

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00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:23.399
<v Speaker 2>things up, or he could be blowing it out of proportion,

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<v Speaker 2>or I mean, it could be completely true and he's

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<v Speaker 2>just lying about other shit. Yeah, who's to say.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I do have this in later. Hopefully I

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00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.240
<v Speaker 1>didn't take it out. Maybe I have it in later.

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<v Speaker 1>Because there was also some reports too that he like

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<v Speaker 1>experimented on the animals that they had too. Oh, and

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<v Speaker 1>that was apparently learned from his father.

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't know, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think that his father was setting a very

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00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:50.399
<v Speaker 1>good example for him or his mother really either way.

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<v Speaker 1>So what we do know for sure is that Fred

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<v Speaker 1>sustained two major head injuries, the first one occurring when

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<v Speaker 1>he was only seventeen years old. He got into an

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<v Speaker 1>on his motorcycle that left him with a broken arm

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00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:07.920
<v Speaker 1>and leg but also a fractured skull. Fred was unconscious

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00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:10.319
<v Speaker 1>for an entire week and you wouldn't be able to

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<v Speaker 1>walk without braces for several months afterwards when he did

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00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:17.559
<v Speaker 1>finally wake up, and some reports say that he did

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<v Speaker 1>even have like a limp, so some remain residual effects

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<v Speaker 1>residual symptoms.

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<v Speaker 2>There you go.

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<v Speaker 1>So the second one came only two years later, when

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00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:35.519
<v Speaker 1>a girl that he allegedly groped at a social club

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00:17:35.799 --> 00:17:39.720
<v Speaker 1>turned around and punched him. Which is he good for you?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 1>If someone groped me, I would punch them in the

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<v Speaker 1>face and I would feel fine with.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, violence is never okay, But neither his fucking sexual assault. No. No,

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<v Speaker 2>I like, I was just like I would be okay

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<v Speaker 2>with punching them in the face. Okay. I can't argue

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<v Speaker 2>if someone's reaction is that, you have every right to

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<v Speaker 2>react that way. Fucking rights. However, there's better ways to

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00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.000
<v Speaker 2>handle it, you know what I mean. There is fine.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't blame you, but there are better ways, That's

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<v Speaker 2>all I'm saying. If that's your reaction, fucking you know,

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<v Speaker 2>but also try not to stoop to their level. Exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So, the two of them have been standing on a

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<v Speaker 1>fire escape and the punch had sent Fred tumbling down

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<v Speaker 1>the stairs until he finally stopped two floors down and

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<v Speaker 1>hit his head.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh shit.

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<v Speaker 1>And as we know, head injuries can lead to massive

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<v Speaker 1>changes and personalities at times. Right, yeah, So Fred's friends

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<v Speaker 1>and family noted that after his stay in the hospital,

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<v Speaker 1>his second stay, Fred became irrationally afraid of hospitals and

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<v Speaker 1>prone to fits of intense rage.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if that's sorry I went away from

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<v Speaker 2>the microm in it. I don't know if that's irrational

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<v Speaker 2>to be afraid of hospitals after that.

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<v Speaker 1>No. No, I mean I think a lot of people,

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<v Speaker 1>even without being experienced, like you just it's a place

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<v Speaker 1>you don't want to go. Yeah, right, and it's she

377
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<v Speaker 1>when you've had two pretty probably traumatic events, like you're

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<v Speaker 1>not feeling good towards that place.

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00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:09.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but who knows to what degree he was acting?

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00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:12.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So that doesn't quite explain what Fred had been

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<v Speaker 1>doing before he received those head injuries, because it's not

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<v Speaker 1>like after receiving them he all of a sudden turned

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<v Speaker 1>into a douche canoe.

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<v Speaker 2>He was a douche canoe before, gotcha. I'm just saying

385
00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:26.920
<v Speaker 2>he's a douche canoe before. He's still a douche canoe. Now,

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00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:32.079
<v Speaker 2>he's just fucking douche canoe squared exactly squared. Douche canoe squared.

387
00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Uh. So, oh goodness, Okay, I do have the So

388
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:39.359
<v Speaker 1>Fred openly admitted that since his mother had introduced him

389
00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:42.960
<v Speaker 1>to sex. He'd read regularly engaged in what is it

390
00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:46.119
<v Speaker 1>called beast reality right with the animals on the farm.

391
00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:51.519
<v Speaker 1>But that wasn't all. In nineteen sixty one, Fred's thirteen

392
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:56.160
<v Speaker 1>year old sister Kitty, made a disturbing confession to their mother.

393
00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:59.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, now, I'm going to just put a oh.

394
00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:02.160
<v Speaker 2>A disclosure statement.

395
00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Some reports said that it was not the sister but

396
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:10.119
<v Speaker 1>a close family friend, but a lot of the majority

397
00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:12.079
<v Speaker 1>of the reports did say that it was the sister.

398
00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:14.119
<v Speaker 1>So I just went with the sister. But there is

399
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:15.960
<v Speaker 1>the possibility that it wasn't the sister and it was

400
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.519
<v Speaker 1>a close friend. So Kitty said that Fred had been

401
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:24.319
<v Speaker 1>sexually abusing her for over half a year, and now

402
00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:26.319
<v Speaker 1>she was pregnant with his child.

403
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:27.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh fuck. Really.

404
00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:32.920
<v Speaker 1>Fred was arrested and openly admitted to abusing Kitty and

405
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:37.720
<v Speaker 1>many other girls, young girls, and he couldn't understand why

406
00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.240
<v Speaker 1>he was being charged with anything, and when asked why

407
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.759
<v Speaker 1>he'd done what he'd done, he then asked the question

408
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:46.559
<v Speaker 1>to them, doesn't everyone do it?

409
00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:49.519
<v Speaker 2>Wow?

410
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:54.319
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So, as we know Daisy, Fred's mother had a

411
00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:57.440
<v Speaker 1>soft spot for Fred, and though disgusted with him, she

412
00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:00.880
<v Speaker 1>agreed to testify in her son's defense, but she would

413
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.480
<v Speaker 1>never have to because in the end, Kitty ended up

414
00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:07.440
<v Speaker 1>dropping or changing her mind and ended up refusing to testify,

415
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:09.759
<v Speaker 1>so the charges against her brother were dropped.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that is one of the most disturbing things, doesn't everybody.

417
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:20.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's quite a statement. He like, it's very disturbing.

418
00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:24.319
<v Speaker 2>That there, just shows what he was taught as Ah.

419
00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:27.200
<v Speaker 1>I know a kid, Yeah, I've got a very just

420
00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:29.759
<v Speaker 1>and what he goes about teaching.

421
00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've got a very disturbing story that I'm going

422
00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:34.440
<v Speaker 2>to share with you here. It's a story that I

423
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:38.599
<v Speaker 2>heard through a friend of a friend. Okay, So that

424
00:21:39.319 --> 00:21:44.839
<v Speaker 2>individual was saying they were an RCNP officer up in

425
00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:47.960
<v Speaker 2>like the Yukon way back when, like in the eighties

426
00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:51.160
<v Speaker 2>or something like that, and there was a old man

427
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.279
<v Speaker 2>in like a hermit type individual in this cabin or whatever,

428
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.759
<v Speaker 2>and he would go and like rob people's backyards and

429
00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:00.279
<v Speaker 2>stuff once in a while for little life like a

430
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.400
<v Speaker 2>bucket things like that, right, or rob some gardens and

431
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:08.839
<v Speaker 2>stuff for some food and things. Anyways, the RCMP eventually

432
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:11.279
<v Speaker 2>went to his cabin after a lot of reports of this,

433
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:13.799
<v Speaker 2>and when they got there, and this is a true story.

434
00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:18.200
<v Speaker 2>By the way, they found him and a dog he

435
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:24.000
<v Speaker 2>had stolen, and that dog he was using for sexual endeavors.

436
00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:27.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh god, Okay, the dog was in such rough shape

437
00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:32.039
<v Speaker 2>it had to be put down. What they had there, like,

438
00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:34.359
<v Speaker 2>and this is shit way up in the middle of

439
00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:36.680
<v Speaker 2>nowhere in the Yukon in the eighties, like they didn't like,

440
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:39.240
<v Speaker 2>they put a bullet into the animal's head. Oh, the

441
00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:42.440
<v Speaker 2>poor thing. And he said the same thing, like his

442
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:45.440
<v Speaker 2>dad taught him this. When you're lonely, you go find

443
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.720
<v Speaker 2>an animal, like this is what he was taught as

444
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:48.079
<v Speaker 2>a kid.

445
00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:53.599
<v Speaker 1>I know. I mean, if I can see it happening.

446
00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:55.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if you if that's what you're taught, that's.

447
00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:59.119
<v Speaker 1>Literally because your parents can be so manipulatve not saying

448
00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:00.920
<v Speaker 1>that people are like this, but there are a few

449
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:04.920
<v Speaker 1>people like this that you legitimately believe that that is

450
00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:06.440
<v Speaker 1>happening in everybody's household.

451
00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you're you're told this is normal. Yeah, I mean

452
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:11.839
<v Speaker 2>think of it in a so disturbing a rational aspect

453
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:17.279
<v Speaker 2>that we're I mean, we eat animals, we eat cows, pigs, right,

454
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.759
<v Speaker 2>the majority of the world does. So. Is it far

455
00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:23.039
<v Speaker 2>fetched to say if we cut them up and consume

456
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:25.759
<v Speaker 2>them that if you are taught from a young age

457
00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:28.759
<v Speaker 2>for over the course of your entire life that you

458
00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:31.640
<v Speaker 2>can do other things, why would there be red flags

459
00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:35.359
<v Speaker 2>if that's what you were taught is normal. Yeah, you

460
00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:38.279
<v Speaker 2>could think that's their purpose there, right, So yeah, so

461
00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:41.319
<v Speaker 2>it's it's wild. What's the shit you can be taught?

462
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:46.759
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, Okay, moving on. He's just disturbing. All

463
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:50.119
<v Speaker 1>of this is disturbing. Yeah, And I mean he probably,

464
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:55.359
<v Speaker 1>But the thing is, like, I've researched this case. I

465
00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:57.559
<v Speaker 1>see the kind of person he is, and that doesn't

466
00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:00.920
<v Speaker 1>everybody do it. I almost be like, well, is he legit?

467
00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:04.119
<v Speaker 1>Is he being serious? But he probably is? Like at

468
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:08.920
<v Speaker 1>that point, I think he's or he's either a teenager

469
00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:13.960
<v Speaker 1>or early twenties, so he could still be very much unbelieving.

470
00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:16.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he could also be lying too. Yeah, there is

471
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:17.680
<v Speaker 2>that possibility.

472
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:22.039
<v Speaker 1>So though his charges were never proven in court, most

473
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:25.359
<v Speaker 1>of the family, including his mother, actually did cut ties

474
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:27.559
<v Speaker 1>with Fred and he was kicked out of the family home.

475
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:31.759
<v Speaker 1>This didn't last outstandably, It didn't last too long though.

476
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:34.920
<v Speaker 1>His relationship with his siblings and most of his family,

477
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:39.000
<v Speaker 1>though it was never the same again. They eventually did

478
00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:42.680
<v Speaker 1>become on speaking terms with both of his parents as well,

479
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:45.880
<v Speaker 1>by like the mid nineteen sixty two, So in September

480
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:53.079
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty two, Catherine Bernadette Costello also walked back into

481
00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:55.960
<v Speaker 1>Fred's life. She'd been one of those women at the

482
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:59.480
<v Speaker 1>youth clubs who'd actually gotten along with Fred, and they'd

483
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:02.839
<v Speaker 1>even been a relationship for a good few months before

484
00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:06.720
<v Speaker 1>she ended up having to move back to Scotland. So Catherine,

485
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:10.640
<v Speaker 1>or Rena as she'd liked to go by, apparently still

486
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:13.799
<v Speaker 1>thought highly of Fred because when she found herself in trouble,

487
00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:17.119
<v Speaker 1>he was the first one that she went to. Okay,

488
00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:19.279
<v Speaker 1>but I mean also like he's probably in a position

489
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:20.039
<v Speaker 1>to judge.

490
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Anyone, Yeah, exactly.

491
00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:25.599
<v Speaker 1>So, Rena was pregnant and the father of her unborn

492
00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:29.319
<v Speaker 1>child was of a darker race, the majority of reports

493
00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:33.400
<v Speaker 1>saying he was from Western Asia. This had led to

494
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:36.200
<v Speaker 1>some difficulties between her and her family members, and it's

495
00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:39.000
<v Speaker 1>difficult to say whether it was because her baby would

496
00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:41.480
<v Speaker 1>be of mixed race or if she was having a

497
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:45.039
<v Speaker 1>childhood of wedlock. Okay, I think it's more so the latter,

498
00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:49.960
<v Speaker 1>because it didn't seem like they had disclosed what the

499
00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:52.200
<v Speaker 1>race of the baby would be until the baby was born.

500
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:56.400
<v Speaker 1>As we'll get into here, so Rena's unplanned pregnancy sent

501
00:25:56.440 --> 00:25:59.519
<v Speaker 1>her back to England and back into Fred's arms. They

502
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:03.200
<v Speaker 1>were married only two months later, with Fred's brother John

503
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:06.519
<v Speaker 1>I believe that's the brother or the son right below

504
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:10.359
<v Speaker 1>Fred's age, allegedly being the only guest at the wedding,

505
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:14.640
<v Speaker 1>and before long they moved out to get Glasgow.

506
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:18.000
<v Speaker 2>The only guest at the wedding, Yes, a single person

507
00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:19.519
<v Speaker 2>attended their wedding. Well, I think it was.

508
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:21.319
<v Speaker 1>It might have been like a friend as well too,

509
00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:24.759
<v Speaker 1>but like the only family member. Oh, the only family member.

510
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:27.359
<v Speaker 2>I literally envisioned them of the altar at a fucking

511
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:29.440
<v Speaker 2>church and one person in the audience, like.

512
00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:32.119
<v Speaker 1>Well, I know, I think I think it might have

513
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:34.359
<v Speaker 1>been like one or two, But also I don't know

514
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:36.279
<v Speaker 1>over there it could be different here, like you need

515
00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:40.680
<v Speaker 1>two witnesses at least for signings. So so Fred found

516
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:43.680
<v Speaker 1>work as an ice cream truck driver, and when Charmaine

517
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:47.480
<v Speaker 1>was born in March the following year, to explain her

518
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:51.200
<v Speaker 1>mixed race, both Fred and Rena explained to anyone who

519
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:54.880
<v Speaker 1>was interested that Rena had had a miscarriage and that

520
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.359
<v Speaker 1>the two of them still wanted a child, so they

521
00:26:57.400 --> 00:27:01.119
<v Speaker 1>decided to adopt Charmaine because they I kind of didn't

522
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:03.400
<v Speaker 1>really say that, but they had said that Fred.

523
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Was the father, gotcha right, Yeah.

524
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:10.319
<v Speaker 1>So in July the following year, the couple welcomed another daughter,

525
00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:14.039
<v Speaker 1>Anna Marie, but things at the West family home were

526
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:18.079
<v Speaker 1>anything but happy. Rena struggled to deal with Fred's outbursts,

527
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:21.640
<v Speaker 1>and most of the time they were actually directed towards

528
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:25.160
<v Speaker 1>the girls. What initially could have looked like Fred being

529
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:28.039
<v Speaker 1>a supportive and loving husband by helping Rena raise a

530
00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:30.960
<v Speaker 1>child that had essentially got her kicked out of her

531
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:34.119
<v Speaker 1>own home, only turned into a way for Fred to

532
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:40.799
<v Speaker 1>treat their marriage. However he wanted. Sorry, go ahead, you're

533
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:42.079
<v Speaker 1>just like, I don't like this guy.

534
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:44.079
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't. He's clearly going to go back to

535
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:48.440
<v Speaker 2>certain things that he was doing in his early age,

536
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:52.200
<v Speaker 2>acting in these fucking horrific douche canooe squared ways.

537
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:57.440
<v Speaker 1>He had numerous affairs, even allegedly fathering a child with

538
00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:01.880
<v Speaker 1>another woman before Rena found out. Cool When she did, though,

539
00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:05.519
<v Speaker 1>instead of leaving Fred or asking him to stop, Rena

540
00:28:05.559 --> 00:28:07.880
<v Speaker 1>then started having affair of her own with a man

541
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:08.640
<v Speaker 1>named John.

542
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:15.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So I mean they're you really were thinking that

543
00:28:17.079 --> 00:28:20.759
<v Speaker 2>consensual relationships can go many ways. Yeah, both partners are

544
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:23.519
<v Speaker 2>okay with you know, open relationships and stuff. I sure

545
00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:26.440
<v Speaker 2>fucking go for it. But I mean if it's like, well,

546
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:28.440
<v Speaker 2>you're fucking cheating on me, so I'm gonna fucking cheat

547
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:30.119
<v Speaker 2>on you, and then you're both pissed off at each other,

548
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:32.440
<v Speaker 2>what the fuck does that solve? See?

549
00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Bred was okay with him cheating, and he wasn't okay

550
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:37.960
<v Speaker 1>with Rena cheating.

551
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:41.599
<v Speaker 2>Of course he was. Anyone who's fucking the cheater is

552
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:45.079
<v Speaker 2>always okay with it. Yeah, they're never okay when they're

553
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:53.160
<v Speaker 2>the cheaty katy cheated, cheated chips. They're the cheetos, the

554
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:56.720
<v Speaker 2>Cheetos of the relationship world. No, no, they're the lays

555
00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:59.400
<v Speaker 2>because a they're getting laid and bet, bet you can't

556
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:03.440
<v Speaker 2>have just one. Oh my word. Okay.

557
00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:07.359
<v Speaker 1>So things got nasty though when Fred discovered that Rena

558
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:11.440
<v Speaker 1>and John were together. Oh my gosh, without skipping a beat, Fred,

559
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:14.680
<v Speaker 1>oh so he actually like found them, So without skipping

560
00:29:14.680 --> 00:29:17.720
<v Speaker 1>a beat, Fred burst into the room and actually punched Rena.

561
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Seeing this, John then punched Fred, who then pulled a

562
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:25.559
<v Speaker 1>knife out and actually managed to catch John and the abdomen.

563
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:28.480
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't a very deep wound, and John kept fighting.

564
00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:32.519
<v Speaker 1>He punched Fred a second time, and after that Fred

565
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:33.440
<v Speaker 1>backed out.

566
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.680
<v Speaker 2>Of the fight. Wow, so okay, gotcha.

567
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:39.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he only liked to really, He didn't seem like

568
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:43.759
<v Speaker 1>he really fought back much when it comes came to guys,

569
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:48.319
<v Speaker 1>but like women, he liked to control them, which is disturbing.

570
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:52.240
<v Speaker 2>Okay, interesting, Well, I mean there are guys out there

571
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:56.079
<v Speaker 2>like that who like to be dominant to the opposite

572
00:29:56.119 --> 00:29:59.200
<v Speaker 2>sex or whatever. Yeah, but when it comes to confrontation

573
00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:03.039
<v Speaker 2>with another man, they're not that. And I hate this term,

574
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:04.319
<v Speaker 2>but I'm going to use it here because it's a

575
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:07.559
<v Speaker 2>good example. But they're not that alpha type, you know,

576
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:10.680
<v Speaker 2>so they they are more submissive in that those scents,

577
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:12.240
<v Speaker 2>but they're like to beat the alpha when they can,

578
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:13.640
<v Speaker 2>so they will to women.

579
00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:18.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So Fred continuing continued having his affairs, and Rena

580
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:22.039
<v Speaker 1>continued having her affair with John. But now that Fred

581
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:25.240
<v Speaker 1>knew where Rena was spending her time, he made sure

582
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.839
<v Speaker 1>she paid for it. He beat her, and whenever John

583
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:30.960
<v Speaker 1>found out about the beatings, he'd go over to the

584
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:33.440
<v Speaker 1>West Household and in return beat Fred.

585
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Fuck.

586
00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:37.839
<v Speaker 1>John later said he couldn't tackle a man, but he

587
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:39.720
<v Speaker 1>wasn't so slow in attacking women.

588
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:43.400
<v Speaker 2>This is this isn't a love triangle. This is an

589
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:47.519
<v Speaker 2>abusive triangle, you know, like holy fuck? Yeah, yeah, Like

590
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:50.480
<v Speaker 2>because Fred's going to beat her, and in Lou, John's

591
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:52.400
<v Speaker 2>going to beat him, and in Lou He's going to

592
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:54.440
<v Speaker 2>beat her again because John came and beat him, and

593
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:57.240
<v Speaker 2>that's going to get a vicious psycle. Holy fuck. All right.

594
00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:02.319
<v Speaker 1>So in November nineteen six, Fred was in hot water

595
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:05.359
<v Speaker 1>for an entirely different reason. He'd been involved in an

596
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:09.119
<v Speaker 1>accident with his ice cream van. The accident had left

597
00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:13.240
<v Speaker 1>a young boy dead, and though Fred was cleared out

598
00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:16.960
<v Speaker 1>of any wrongdoings, he didn't quite He didn't feel like

599
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:19.920
<v Speaker 1>he was safe where he was currently residing. And it

600
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:23.799
<v Speaker 1>was actually an accident, like I think that he backed

601
00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:28.160
<v Speaker 1>into the boy or something, okay, and something I'd listened

602
00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:31.599
<v Speaker 1>to It was like yeah, and accidents in those manner

603
00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:36.119
<v Speaker 1>were quite frequent, common, and I was like, holy really

604
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:39.720
<v Speaker 1>that's common. I feel like if that happened nowadays, I

605
00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:41.039
<v Speaker 1>would be shocked to read that.

606
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, we have fucking backup cameras and rearview mirrors stuff.

607
00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:45.759
<v Speaker 2>Who knows if they had even the mirrors properly in

608
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:48.799
<v Speaker 2>the vehicle he was using, It's hard to say so.

609
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:52.079
<v Speaker 1>Thinking that some of the locals would take justice into

610
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:57.079
<v Speaker 1>their own hands, Fred moved the family to Gloucester. Rita

611
00:31:57.160 --> 00:31:59.720
<v Speaker 1>didn't join him until February the following year, and when

612
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:01.319
<v Speaker 1>she did, she brought some.

613
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.039
<v Speaker 2>Guests with her.

614
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:06.559
<v Speaker 1>So Issa McNeil, a teenager who'd been there, nanny who

615
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:09.119
<v Speaker 1>was looking for a better life, and so was her

616
00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:12.640
<v Speaker 1>sixteen year old friend and McFall is that.

617
00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:14.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh sorry, I just made a loud noise in my

618
00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:17.000
<v Speaker 2>mic I don't know if that'll even get picked up.

619
00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:20.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeahs Issa had introduced Anne to the West while she

620
00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:23.680
<v Speaker 1>was working for them, and when Anne's boyfriend had died

621
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:28.519
<v Speaker 1>in a workplace accident, they'd all become much closer. Issa

622
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:32.240
<v Speaker 1>and Anne followed Rena to Gloucester, thinking that a fresh

623
00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:34.279
<v Speaker 1>start would be the thing that they needed to get

624
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:37.680
<v Speaker 1>their lives on track. Only they didn't quite realize what

625
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:41.279
<v Speaker 1>they were walking into. It didn't take long for Fred

626
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:44.119
<v Speaker 1>to start viewing all three women living in his house,

627
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:48.160
<v Speaker 1>two of them still only teenagers as his own property.

628
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Fucking course he did. God yeah, sorry, it pisses me

629
00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:55.000
<v Speaker 2>off so much.

630
00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:58.119
<v Speaker 1>This guy is going to piss you off big time.

631
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:01.920
<v Speaker 1>So he beat Rena and Issa and told Rena to

632
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:04.599
<v Speaker 1>start working as a sex worker so that they could

633
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:09.920
<v Speaker 1>make more money. He also started sexually abusing his stepdaughter Charmaine.

634
00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:13.279
<v Speaker 2>Why didn't he go out and suck some dick's for

635
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:16.559
<v Speaker 2>extra cash? I don't know. He could have made that money.

636
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:19.200
<v Speaker 2>He could have fucking put those lips to good use, buddy,

637
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:19.759
<v Speaker 2>he could have.

638
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:24.960
<v Speaker 1>So desperate, Rena called John and begged him to get her,

639
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:26.759
<v Speaker 1>her two daughters, and Issa.

640
00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:27.039
<v Speaker 2>Out of there.

641
00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:31.440
<v Speaker 1>John immediately agreed and hatched a plan with Issa's boyfriend

642
00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:34.400
<v Speaker 1>to drive down and pick all them up while Fred

643
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:37.960
<v Speaker 1>was out of the house. But Anne's name was missing

644
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:41.839
<v Speaker 1>from that list. Anne had fallen for Fred and he'd

645
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:43.200
<v Speaker 1>promised to marry her.

646
00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:44.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, okay.

647
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:48.200
<v Speaker 1>When she found out about the others attempting to leave,

648
00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:50.680
<v Speaker 1>she told Fred everything.

649
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:53.400
<v Speaker 2>Which only pissed him off and he probably went on

650
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:56.359
<v Speaker 2>a fucking rampage. Yep, okay cool.

651
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:58.799
<v Speaker 1>So when the other six met at the meeting spot,

652
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:01.960
<v Speaker 1>Fred and Anne show up as well and told the

653
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:04.400
<v Speaker 1>others that she was going to stay with Fred, and

654
00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:07.119
<v Speaker 1>Fred told them that Rena and Issa could leave, but

655
00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:10.639
<v Speaker 1>Charmaine and Anna Marie the two kids, would be coming

656
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:14.239
<v Speaker 1>with him. John and Fred fought again, with Fred being

657
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:17.239
<v Speaker 1>hit several times, but he didn't let go of the girls,

658
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:20.440
<v Speaker 1>and the police were called to the scene. John, Issa,

659
00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:26.239
<v Speaker 1>her boyfriend, and Rena left and the girls stayed with Fred.

660
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh fuck, yeah, great, this is going to be fann fuckingtastic.

661
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:34.639
<v Speaker 1>Fred kept the girls and he warned Rena that he

662
00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:38.239
<v Speaker 1>would kill her if he ever saw her again. But she,

663
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:39.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I feel like you'd have to be a

664
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:43.079
<v Speaker 1>very also be somewhat of a strong individual to be

665
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:47.239
<v Speaker 1>with this Fred man. Yeah, and she ignored Fred's warnings,

666
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:50.119
<v Speaker 1>and she did make a point of visiting the daughters.

667
00:34:51.159 --> 00:34:56.760
<v Speaker 2>And where the daughters save. Relatively speaking.

668
00:34:57.480 --> 00:35:01.559
<v Speaker 1>This also created a lot of tension between Rena, Fred

669
00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:05.519
<v Speaker 1>and Anne, which all blew up when Rena was arrested

670
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:07.559
<v Speaker 1>for stealing some of Van's things.

671
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:11.079
<v Speaker 2>Do you like how I just avoided your question? I did.

672
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:14.079
<v Speaker 1>The court case shone a light on the situation at

673
00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:17.360
<v Speaker 1>Fred's home. But Fred, he was a manipulator. He knew

674
00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:20.199
<v Speaker 1>how to lie. He told the court that things were

675
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:23.480
<v Speaker 1>going to calm down because Anne was moving back to Glasgow,

676
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:27.119
<v Speaker 1>and the court believed him and actually moved to a

677
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:30.320
<v Speaker 1>different caravan in the same caravan park that Fred and

678
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:33.880
<v Speaker 1>the girls were living, but that did mean that Rena

679
00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:37.800
<v Speaker 1>could then stay in Fred's caravan whenever she visited the girls.

680
00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:43.039
<v Speaker 1>Rena ended up splitting her time between Fred's caravan and Glasgow,

681
00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:46.079
<v Speaker 1>but Anne was still sure that she and Fred had

682
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:52.239
<v Speaker 1>a future. By July nineteen sixty seven, Anne eighteen years old,

683
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:57.519
<v Speaker 1>was actually eight months pregnant with Fred's child Cool. She

684
00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:03.639
<v Speaker 1>then disappeared. She was never reported as missing. Less than

685
00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:07.320
<v Speaker 1>a month later, Rena was back at home, officially living

686
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:11.360
<v Speaker 1>with Fred again. Things seemed to approve at first, but

687
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:16.000
<v Speaker 1>only a year later Rena had left once again. This

688
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:18.639
<v Speaker 1>was the end of Fred and Rena as a couple,

689
00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:22.199
<v Speaker 1>but Fred found love again two years later in the

690
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:25.760
<v Speaker 1>arms of Rosemary Lets or Rose.

691
00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:29.199
<v Speaker 2>Here we fucking go. I was waiting for Rose to

692
00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:32.039
<v Speaker 2>come into the story. Mm hmm, fucking Fred.

693
00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:36.639
<v Speaker 1>So Rose had only just turned fifteen when she met

694
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.239
<v Speaker 1>Fred at the bus stop. They were waiting, Oh cool,

695
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:41.079
<v Speaker 1>and Fred was twenty eight.

696
00:36:41.400 --> 00:36:46.320
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's fucking fantastic. Wow. All right.

697
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:50.320
<v Speaker 1>Rose was initially unimpressed with Fred. Actually, she thought, so

698
00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:52.559
<v Speaker 1>am I, oh so am I?

699
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:57.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh? What really was funny for me? You're good bruh.

700
00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:00.400
<v Speaker 1>She thought that he looked and smelled like a homeless man.

701
00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:04.519
<v Speaker 1>That was literally her thoughts. I think he was like

702
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:05.239
<v Speaker 1>a homeless man.

703
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:08.199
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I know I'm not going to like her here

704
00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:10.119
<v Speaker 2>coming up, but I like her right now.

705
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:14.559
<v Speaker 1>But once she realized that he wasn't, and after he

706
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:17.480
<v Speaker 1>kept pursuing her, Rose started to like all the attention

707
00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:21.239
<v Speaker 1>and the compliments that Fred kept giving her, which, you know,

708
00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:25.960
<v Speaker 1>compliments are nice sometimes, Yeah, it was nothing compared to

709
00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:28.159
<v Speaker 1>the attention he gave her after he found out that

710
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:33.599
<v Speaker 1>Rose was very sexually active. After that, Fred tried everything.

711
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:37.639
<v Speaker 1>He even told her that his wife had abandoned him

712
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.159
<v Speaker 1>and their two daughters, but he still had help for

713
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:43.800
<v Speaker 1>the future and wanted to have more children. Then he

714
00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:46.239
<v Speaker 1>found out where Rose worked and had a woman go

715
00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:49.559
<v Speaker 1>in with a gift from him, and then he walked

716
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:53.320
<v Speaker 1>in after to ask Rose out on a date. Rose

717
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:56.880
<v Speaker 1>had allegedly already refused him a couple of times, but

718
00:37:57.360 --> 00:37:58.599
<v Speaker 1>the gift seemed to do the trick.

719
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:01.639
<v Speaker 2>And the two of them did eventually become a couple.

720
00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:05.639
<v Speaker 2>D d dum du dun duh.

721
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:09.079
<v Speaker 1>Rose would spend a lot of time in his caravan,

722
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:12.400
<v Speaker 1>both to see him and to look after the girls.

723
00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Her relationship with the girls was good at first, and

724
00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:18.719
<v Speaker 1>she managed to actually convince Fred to start treating them

725
00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:21.599
<v Speaker 1>better for a while, but that didn't last so long.

726
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:26.239
<v Speaker 1>Only weeks after they started dating, Rose had quit her

727
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:28.960
<v Speaker 1>job and was a full time nanny to Charmaine and

728
00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:33.039
<v Speaker 1>Anna Marie. This went on with Rose's parents having no

729
00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:36.519
<v Speaker 1>idea what was happening or that she had a boyfriend,

730
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:38.639
<v Speaker 1>like as far as they know, she was still working

731
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:42.840
<v Speaker 1>at her job. But that all changed several months later

732
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:46.480
<v Speaker 1>when they did eventually find out and both her parents

733
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:48.800
<v Speaker 1>disapproved of the relationship.

734
00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:51.039
<v Speaker 2>That's a very nice way of putting it. They disapproved.

735
00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:56.440
<v Speaker 1>They disapproved of Fred. Fred was very disapproval, disapproving. I

736
00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:57.760
<v Speaker 1>don't even know what that means.

737
00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:04.639
<v Speaker 2>He sucked. That sucked Fuck you Fred. Not not cool Fred, Eh,

738
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:07.559
<v Speaker 2>not cool Fred, No, it's fucking Fred. Fucking Fred.

739
00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:12.000
<v Speaker 1>They were unsuccessful in stopping, so not knowing what else

740
00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:15.199
<v Speaker 1>like stopping the relationship, so not knowing what else to do.

741
00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:18.840
<v Speaker 1>They actually called social services to have Rose removed from

742
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:21.960
<v Speaker 1>her own home and put into a center for troubled

743
00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:26.519
<v Speaker 1>youth or troubled teens. She was only allowed off of

744
00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:29.920
<v Speaker 1>the premises on weekends and when she was supposed. When

745
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:31.960
<v Speaker 1>she was allowed off, she was supposed to go and

746
00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:35.440
<v Speaker 1>visit her parents, but she used that time, of course,

747
00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:39.039
<v Speaker 1>to go and see Fred instead. Fred.

748
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:45.440
<v Speaker 2>Instead, she saw Fred yep, and then some people were dead. Yeah,

749
00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:47.800
<v Speaker 2>there you go. That sums it up. We're done here

750
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:50.440
<v Speaker 2>and that's thanks for joining us today and we can agreement.

751
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:55.039
<v Speaker 1>When she turned sixteen, Rose was officially allowed to leave

752
00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:58.280
<v Speaker 1>the center and she moved in with Fred the first

753
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:01.760
<v Speaker 1>chance she got. Her father tried one last time to

754
00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:05.039
<v Speaker 1>end the relationship by saying that Rose was pregnant and

755
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:08.320
<v Speaker 1>that it was statutory rape, so the police examined her.

756
00:40:08.840 --> 00:40:12.599
<v Speaker 1>It was true Rose was actually pregnant, but she was

757
00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:15.480
<v Speaker 1>allowed to leave the station under the condition that she

758
00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:19.079
<v Speaker 1>terminate her pregnancy and go back home to her family.

759
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:23.760
<v Speaker 1>Rose agreed, but what she actually did was cut ties

760
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:26.840
<v Speaker 1>with her family and officially move in with Fred instead.

761
00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:29.920
<v Speaker 1>Something Fred and Rose had in calm And that I

762
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:32.880
<v Speaker 1>haven't mentioned yet is the abuse. The two of them

763
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:38.360
<v Speaker 1>endured growing up. So Rose's father, Bill Letts, was a

764
00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:42.880
<v Speaker 1>diagnosed schizophrenic, and it's believed that he molested Rose.

765
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Aw fuck yes.

766
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:50.280
<v Speaker 1>And it's also believed that Rose molested her brother.

767
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:57.480
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Yes. It's unbelievably sad how common sexual assault is

768
00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:03.559
<v Speaker 2>within families and the things people endure from it. And

769
00:41:03.679 --> 00:41:06.320
<v Speaker 2>then it's super sad when you see, like we kind

770
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:08.559
<v Speaker 2>of already mentioned it, people learning these things from such

771
00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:11.719
<v Speaker 2>a young age. But it's so sad when people learn

772
00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:15.280
<v Speaker 2>these behaviors behaviors and they pass them on to someone else.

773
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, and now these two individuals are together and

774
00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:24.679
<v Speaker 1>forming a relationship, and the kind of abuse that they

775
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:28.360
<v Speaker 1>grew up with unfortunately carries on to the next generation.

776
00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the absolute shittiest kind of power couple. Yeah.

777
00:41:32.119 --> 00:41:34.039
<v Speaker 1>And I'm not saying it always does. It doesn't always,

778
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:37.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, not at all, but in this situation it did.

779
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:39.920
<v Speaker 2>So yeah. No, there are situations where people like this

780
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:42.360
<v Speaker 2>could get together and all they do is help support

781
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:44.400
<v Speaker 2>each other and they're there for the other when they

782
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:45.719
<v Speaker 2>need it and advocate.

783
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:46.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

784
00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:52.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. However, there was the flip side that is Rose. Yep.

785
00:41:53.320 --> 00:41:56.840
<v Speaker 1>So by the time Fred and Rose's first child, Heather Anne,

786
00:41:56.960 --> 00:42:00.480
<v Speaker 1>was born. Charmaine and Anna Marie were old enough remember

787
00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:03.760
<v Speaker 1>what life was like living in the West household. Although

788
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:07.239
<v Speaker 1>although they both experienced different kinds of sexual abuse from

789
00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:12.679
<v Speaker 1>their father, they also experienced physically or physical, emotional and

790
00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:16.760
<v Speaker 1>mental abuse from Rose. Rose would often beat them, and

791
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:19.800
<v Speaker 1>she showed a lot of excitement when someone got hurt

792
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:24.639
<v Speaker 1>or started crying. Anna Marie turned into a quiet, submissive

793
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:27.400
<v Speaker 1>girl who was just trying to get by, which is

794
00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:34.639
<v Speaker 1>fucking heartbreaking. This is also heartbreaking. Charmain held on. She

795
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:37.840
<v Speaker 1>refused to show fear or to cry, and she often

796
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:40.599
<v Speaker 1>told Anna Marie that their mother would come back to

797
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:44.960
<v Speaker 1>get them. By nineteen seventy one, Fred was in prison

798
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:48.920
<v Speaker 1>for unrelated charges and the girls were left completely at

799
00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:53.320
<v Speaker 1>the mercy of Rose and her temper. Charmain continued to

800
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:57.480
<v Speaker 1>push back, purposely saying things that she knew would like,

801
00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:01.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, get Rose going, like comparing her to her

802
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:05.280
<v Speaker 1>biological mother, and the abuse got worse and worse.

803
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Fuck.

804
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:09.360
<v Speaker 1>Just before Fred was released in the summer of nineteen

805
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:12.079
<v Speaker 1>seventy one, Charmaine disappeared.

806
00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:15.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh fuck. Rose told everyone that.

807
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:17.920
<v Speaker 1>Charmaine had gone to live with her mother, and when

808
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:21.039
<v Speaker 1>Fred got out of prison, he stood by this statement.

809
00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:25.880
<v Speaker 1>It didn't, however, take long for Rena to figure out

810
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:28.480
<v Speaker 1>that something was wrong and Charmaine was missing.

811
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:30.639
<v Speaker 2>She kept coming to Fred's.

812
00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:33.480
<v Speaker 1>House, putting the pressure on Fred to tell her what

813
00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:37.400
<v Speaker 1>had happened to her daughter. She was lasting at the house,

814
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:40.920
<v Speaker 1>probably demanding to take custody of both her daughters before

815
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:43.079
<v Speaker 1>she also disappeared.

816
00:43:43.239 --> 00:43:44.480
<v Speaker 2>Of course she did. Fuck.

817
00:43:46.039 --> 00:43:49.679
<v Speaker 1>Six months later, Fred and Rose got married. Fred was

818
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:52.800
<v Speaker 1>technically married to Rena, but now that she was nowhere

819
00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:55.679
<v Speaker 1>to be seen, Fred listed himself as a bachelor on

820
00:43:55.760 --> 00:44:00.760
<v Speaker 1>the paperwork and went about marrying Rose for the second

821
00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:04.119
<v Speaker 1>time in his life. Fred married with no one attending

822
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:06.239
<v Speaker 1>his wedding except his younger brother John.

823
00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Whoo. I can't believe John just kept attending. At some point,

824
00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:14.199
<v Speaker 2>you think you'd be like, I'm out. I mean, if

825
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:16.000
<v Speaker 2>they have like an open bar, just go to a

826
00:44:16.039 --> 00:44:18.599
<v Speaker 2>fucking wedding. You're the only person there. Hey, why not

827
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:21.400
<v Speaker 2>just get liquered right up? Eh, just sit through the

828
00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:23.880
<v Speaker 2>ceremony for half an hour and just enjoy your time.

829
00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:30.119
<v Speaker 2>Like I said, Woo, the one guy in the fucking church. Wow.

830
00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:34.519
<v Speaker 1>So several months later, Rose was pregnant again and the

831
00:44:34.599 --> 00:44:39.400
<v Speaker 1>family moved into their forever home, twenty five Cromwell Street.

832
00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:42.760
<v Speaker 1>This was a three story house, and to help make

833
00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:45.400
<v Speaker 1>some extra money, the family lived on the ground floor

834
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:49.679
<v Speaker 1>and rented out the other bedrooms. But that summer, right

835
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:53.679
<v Speaker 1>after she'd given birth to her second daughter, May June,

836
00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Rose found another way to make some extra money as well.

837
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:05.480
<v Speaker 2>And that ends is where the story A bit for today? Wow, thanks,

838
00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:12.000
<v Speaker 2>all right, cool a bit. Well, that was fucking shitty. Okay,

839
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:14.480
<v Speaker 2>the podcast has already been probably an hour. We got

840
00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:16.039
<v Speaker 2>to stop and go to part two.

841
00:45:18.639 --> 00:45:21.159
<v Speaker 1>Right when she's about to hit the fast no kidding, Yeah,

842
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:21.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry.

843
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:23.920
<v Speaker 2>Also, I was really looking forward to you saying Yeah,

844
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:25.920
<v Speaker 2>they got a new house and they were making some

845
00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:28.119
<v Speaker 2>extra money. So Fred decided to have a glory hole

846
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:30.239
<v Speaker 2>in the house where he did some d sucking.

847
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.599
<v Speaker 1>No, he had peep holes, he had cool to watch

848
00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:37.679
<v Speaker 1>things cool, but he did not have any glory holes.

849
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:42.599
<v Speaker 2>Wow, fucking Fred, I hate this guy. Yeah, what an absolutely.

850
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay. I was gonna say, like Rose is not much better,

851
00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:49.079
<v Speaker 1>and she is not at all. But the thing is

852
00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:52.760
<v Speaker 1>like she was very young too, and so say if

853
00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:57.039
<v Speaker 1>she had maybe gone with someone that was a better

854
00:45:57.079 --> 00:45:59.960
<v Speaker 1>influence on her. Yeah, it could have been totally different

855
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:02.440
<v Speaker 1>for her, right, So it's but she ended up with

856
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:05.519
<v Speaker 1>Fred and he was probably the worst possible influence you

857
00:46:05.559 --> 00:46:06.119
<v Speaker 1>could ever have.

858
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:09.679
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, it hits the fan. But the same thing

859
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:13.920
<v Speaker 2>could be said about Fred too, not that I'm defending him,

860
00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:16.519
<v Speaker 2>just playing devil's advocate here. If he found a woman

861
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:19.199
<v Speaker 2>who is good for him to get him out of

862
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:22.199
<v Speaker 2>these tendencies, yeah, he could have been a good person too,

863
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:25.639
<v Speaker 2>that's true. But I mean, like you said, she was

864
00:46:25.719 --> 00:46:27.559
<v Speaker 2>quite a bit younger, so that puts him more in

865
00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:31.960
<v Speaker 2>that driver's seat. But they are definitely not the couple

866
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:34.559
<v Speaker 2>for the individuals for each other, because I.

867
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:38.679
<v Speaker 1>Think everyone technically has some good in them, right, you

868
00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:43.920
<v Speaker 1>would help, but then different circumstances and situations can just

869
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:46.719
<v Speaker 1>bring the absolute worst out in you. Yeah, and true

870
00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:48.760
<v Speaker 1>carries forward for like the rest of your life.

871
00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:53.280
<v Speaker 2>So, and it's how individuals. There's certain circumstances behind everything.

872
00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:56.320
<v Speaker 2>There's exceptions to every rule, but it is how individuals

873
00:46:56.519 --> 00:46:58.880
<v Speaker 2>choose to deal with these things. A lot of the times,

874
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:04.440
<v Speaker 2>can choose to stand against it. You can choose to

875
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:09.199
<v Speaker 2>be something different, or you can go the easier path

876
00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:16.079
<v Speaker 2>and decide, hey, I'm going to fulfill my fucking desires

877
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:21.800
<v Speaker 2>of incest and bestiality and beating individuals, even though you

878
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:24.519
<v Speaker 2>know it's not fucking right. Oh yeah, oh yeah.

879
00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:28.079
<v Speaker 1>No, like all these disgusting people, there there is something

880
00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:29.880
<v Speaker 1>inside them that knows what they're.

881
00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Doing is wrong. Yeah, for sure, to some degree some people,

882
00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:36.559
<v Speaker 2>unless lesser than others to be fair, unless it's also.

883
00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:39.119
<v Speaker 1>A mental illness too that is preventing them from realizing,

884
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:40.239
<v Speaker 1>well that has happened.

885
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:42.719
<v Speaker 2>That's what I mean, to some degree or another, right,

886
00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:47.719
<v Speaker 2>some much less. But someone like Fred, he knows exactly

887
00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:50.159
<v Speaker 2>what he's doing. Oh yeah, he's freaking nasty. He's making

888
00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:53.960
<v Speaker 2>the choice to do these things. So he was brought

889
00:47:54.039 --> 00:47:57.119
<v Speaker 2>up in a very terrible situation as a kid, not

890
00:47:57.320 --> 00:48:01.679
<v Speaker 2>his fault whatsoever. No, now he knows the things he's

891
00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:05.239
<v Speaker 2>doing is wrong, especially considering he went through a court

892
00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:10.559
<v Speaker 2>process where he's like, isn't everybody having incestual relationships? Am

893
00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:13.480
<v Speaker 2>I actually doing anything wrong here? Yeah? So he learned

894
00:48:14.079 --> 00:48:18.360
<v Speaker 2>these things were wrong, but he continued to do them anyways.

895
00:48:18.760 --> 00:48:22.800
<v Speaker 2>He made the choice to continue his perversions. Yeah, that's

896
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:23.280
<v Speaker 2>where and.

897
00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:25.800
<v Speaker 1>Then he brought other people into them too, because the

898
00:48:26.199 --> 00:48:31.800
<v Speaker 1>thing is they went about choosing they knew what they

899
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:33.840
<v Speaker 1>were doing was wrong, because they did go about choosing

900
00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:37.360
<v Speaker 1>people that wouldn't necessarily be missed or wouldn't necessarily be

901
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:40.079
<v Speaker 1>noticed that they were missing right off the bat. So

902
00:48:40.239 --> 00:48:42.159
<v Speaker 1>that right there was like, yeah, you know, you know

903
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:45.159
<v Speaker 1>you're being selective, you're being secretive, like you know what

904
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:47.880
<v Speaker 1>you're doing is wrong, being.

905
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:51.360
<v Speaker 2>Very methodical about it. Which, yeah, really.

906
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:55.880
<v Speaker 1>Fucking Fred, fucking Fred, So you get to endure fucking

907
00:48:56.039 --> 00:48:57.679
<v Speaker 1>Fred Part two next week.

908
00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:01.639
<v Speaker 2>Wow, Well, thank you for ending it on that note

909
00:49:01.719 --> 00:49:04.920
<v Speaker 2>right where shit was getting good or horrifying, however you

910
00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:06.880
<v Speaker 2>want to look at it. You're welcome. It's a good

911
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:08.840
<v Speaker 2>job so far. I know how many emails are we

912
00:49:08.920 --> 00:49:12.480
<v Speaker 2>going to get like you. I can't believe you're good fish.

913
00:49:14.039 --> 00:49:16.800
<v Speaker 2>I imagine there's going to be. It's my job. It's

914
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:18.880
<v Speaker 2>just gonna make you tune in next week. That's my job.

915
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:21.960
<v Speaker 2>That's true. I can't even get to know what it's

916
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:24.159
<v Speaker 2>going to be. You're mating making me wait a fucking

917
00:49:24.199 --> 00:49:26.320
<v Speaker 2>week before we record. If I'm being honest, I don't

918
00:49:26.320 --> 00:49:28.760
<v Speaker 2>even have part two fully finished. So well, you said

919
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:32.920
<v Speaker 2>you have all the information writing it. But yeah, I've

920
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:35.159
<v Speaker 2>got to sit here and wait, just like everybody else. Yeah,

921
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:37.639
<v Speaker 2>you do. This isn't fair now, I know what they

922
00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:38.920
<v Speaker 2>go through. It's not fun at all.

923
00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:41.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, I know when I'm always the one

924
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:43.280
<v Speaker 1>that lots of times does the part twos. I do

925
00:49:43.400 --> 00:49:46.239
<v Speaker 1>more part twos you do. I have some other part

926
00:49:46.280 --> 00:49:48.360
<v Speaker 1>twos coming down the line that I want to do too,

927
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:49.480
<v Speaker 1>so but they're fun.

928
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:51.599
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of fun. Sometimes it is fun, but it's

929
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:53.400
<v Speaker 2>like fuck because.

930
00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:55.440
<v Speaker 1>You get to you get to deeper dive into the

931
00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:59.679
<v Speaker 1>cases and like, honestly, this I'm still missing shit in

932
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:01.960
<v Speaker 1>this case. Like even by doing two episodes, like I'm

933
00:50:01.960 --> 00:50:04.480
<v Speaker 1>still not covering everything. Oh yeah, you could probably do

934
00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:07.119
<v Speaker 1>like five on this this case. It's ginormous.

935
00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:09.360
<v Speaker 2>So well, I mean, it's just we're in a day

936
00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:12.239
<v Speaker 2>and age where it's like, oh, new fucking season of

937
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:14.880
<v Speaker 2>this show just came out. Let's binge the next twelve

938
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:18.239
<v Speaker 2>episodes and learn it all right now and get to indulge.

939
00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:21.320
<v Speaker 2>We're not in a society anymore. We're made to fucking

940
00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:22.159
<v Speaker 2>wait for ship.

941
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:25.320
<v Speaker 1>But just okay, okay, just go back to when you

942
00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:27.800
<v Speaker 1>were a kid you watched your favorite show and you

943
00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:30.440
<v Speaker 1>had to like wait for it to come out the

944
00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:33.440
<v Speaker 1>following week, and how freaking excited you were that it

945
00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:35.039
<v Speaker 1>was like here and it was like the best day

946
00:50:35.079 --> 00:50:36.960
<v Speaker 1>ever and you had something to look forward to, and it.

947
00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:40.039
<v Speaker 2>Was like, yes, okay, okay, I can relate to that.

948
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:42.719
<v Speaker 1>Just go back to that feeling. That's what I'm That's

949
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:43.400
<v Speaker 1>what I'm doing.

950
00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:48.400
<v Speaker 2>For because I would literally run down my driveway to

951
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:49.920
<v Speaker 2>catch my show after school.

952
00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:52.880
<v Speaker 1>I know we need more feelings like that because we're

953
00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:54.320
<v Speaker 1>in a day and age where yeah, you can just

954
00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:57.880
<v Speaker 1>consume whenever you want, however you want, and there's not

955
00:50:58.039 --> 00:51:01.679
<v Speaker 1>really any just like excite, enter like looking forward to

956
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:02.760
<v Speaker 1>things as much as there.

957
00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:05.559
<v Speaker 2>Used to be too chee. So I'm just doing that

958
00:51:05.719 --> 00:51:09.079
<v Speaker 2>for you. Wow, You're welcome. Way to really try and

959
00:51:09.159 --> 00:51:12.400
<v Speaker 2>paint yourself in the best like possible in the shitty situation.

960
00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:16.760
<v Speaker 2>You did a good job. I'll give you that. I mean,

961
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:19.039
<v Speaker 2>everyone just going down memory lane and now they're just

962
00:51:19.159 --> 00:51:21.599
<v Speaker 2>like wow, yeah, like you know what, that's okay. We

963
00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:25.679
<v Speaker 2>do need this. Wow. Yeah, that was really good. I

964
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:30.960
<v Speaker 2>props to you. That was you did really good on

965
00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:32.840
<v Speaker 2>the episode two. You did really good so far. I

966
00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:36.440
<v Speaker 2>look forward to part two next Tuesday. If you guys

967
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:38.599
<v Speaker 2>want some more behind the scenes content, you can head

968
00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:41.440
<v Speaker 2>the Patreon. There's a big library of a bunch of

969
00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:44.000
<v Speaker 2>episodes you can go over there that are exclusive to Patreon.

970
00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:46.599
<v Speaker 2>You can go check out our YouTube with got some

971
00:51:46.719 --> 00:51:49.320
<v Speaker 2>vlogs up there, which one from Tafino is gonna be

972
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:50.079
<v Speaker 2>posted here shortly.

973
00:51:50.239 --> 00:51:50.599
<v Speaker 1>M hm.

974
00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:53.639
<v Speaker 2>We got Instagram, we got Facebook, we got a website,

975
00:51:53.719 --> 00:51:56.079
<v Speaker 2>you name it. There's a whole slew of stuff in

976
00:51:56.199 --> 00:51:59.159
<v Speaker 2>our description down below for this podcast. Check it out

977
00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:01.840
<v Speaker 2>if you want. If not, you're here too, and that's

978
00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:04.320
<v Speaker 2>what's really important. So thank you so much for your support.

979
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:07.599
<v Speaker 2>One way or another, you mean the world. Yeah, we

980
00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:11.360
<v Speaker 2>love that you're here. We appreciate it and keep doing

981
00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:14.639
<v Speaker 2>it in until next Tuesday when you're making us wait

982
00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:19.400
<v Speaker 2>for part two. You're welcome, I already said, and stay wicked,

983
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:23.760
<v Speaker 2>or I guess stay wicked. I feel like Mike, You're

984
00:52:23.800 --> 00:52:27.000
<v Speaker 2>welcome was too harsh. So anyway, thanks for being here. Bye.

985
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:29.840
<v Speaker 2>I still got to do this stay Wicked for the

986
00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:31.480
<v Speaker 2>third time. Now, can you do it again?

987
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:31.679
<v Speaker 1>Ok?

988
00:52:33.079 --> 00:52:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Now it feels right, it feels awkward, now it feels forced.

989
00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Do it you got this. I'm gonna do the long

990
00:52:38.920 --> 00:52:42.719
<v Speaker 2>why Okay ready yeah, stay wicked.