Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. One
Speaker 1: of the key factors that has been under discussion in
Speaker 1: the investigation into the Moscow murders and Brian Coohberger has
Speaker 1: been the gag order. It has been challenged not only
Speaker 1: by Kaylee Gonsalvez family's lawyer, Shannon Gray, but it has
Speaker 1: also been challenged by the media, and it's now working
Speaker 1: its way through the Supreme Court, and it's been rather contentious.
Speaker 1: Some of the filings that have been put on the
Speaker 1: court docket by both sides have been rather condescending, and
Speaker 1: especially coming from the State of Idaho and especially Brian
Speaker 1: Coohberger's defense team, which absolutely ripped Shannon Gray apart in
Speaker 1: these filings, basically saying he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Speaker 1: And it's always interesting to get a glimpse behind the
Speaker 1: scenes to what's going on in a case like this
Speaker 1: when there's a gag order, because we have no idea,
Speaker 1: right it's not like one of these cases where we're
Speaker 1: getting daily reports from the prosecution or the defense. Nobody's
Speaker 1: holding press conferences anymore. So the best way to follow
Speaker 1: along with all of this is to follow along with
Speaker 1: the court filings and see what they have to say,
Speaker 1: and so far it's been relatively contentious when it comes
Speaker 1: to this gag order, and I can understand why. I
Speaker 1: think there's a legitimate argument to be made on both sides.
Speaker 1: I think that the First Amendment is something that should
Speaker 1: always be protected and something that should never be stepped on.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I realize that Brian Colberger,
Speaker 1: he deserves a fair trial. He certainly deserves a fair shake,
Speaker 1: and he deserves to have a jury that is impartial.
Speaker 1: And even with that impartial jury, I don't think it'll
Speaker 1: matter because the evidence certainly is lining up against Brian Colberger.
Speaker 1: So today we're going to dive into an article from
Speaker 1: Newsweek and we're gonna get a quick update on some
Speaker 1: of the key develops mints from the past few days.
Speaker 1: So let's dive into this article and let's see what
Speaker 1: author Kalida Rockman has for US headline Brian Coberger gag
Speaker 1: order and other key developments from the investigation. Defense attorneys
Speaker 1: for Brian Colberger, the man accused of murdering for University
Speaker 1: of Idaho students, asked the Idaho Supreme Court this week
Speaker 1: to keep a gag order in place and They also
Speaker 1: argued during those court filings that the Supreme Court was
Speaker 1: not the proper forum to even chase this rid of mandamus.
Speaker 1: They're saying that they should have tried to pursue this
Speaker 1: at the magistrate court level, and they just bunny hopped
Speaker 1: all of that and went directly to the Supreme Court
Speaker 1: looking for redress. And that's not the proper forum, according
Speaker 1: to the State of Idaho and to Brian Cohberger's attorneys. Coburger,
Speaker 1: twenty eight, is accused of breaking into a rental home
Speaker 1: near the university campus in Moscow and fatally stabbing Kaylee Gunsalves,
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin in the early
Speaker 1: hours of November thirteenth, of twenty twenty two. Colberger is
Speaker 1: charged with four counts of first degree murder and one
Speaker 1: count of felony burglary. He has yet to enter a
Speaker 1: plea to the charges, but a lawyer who previously represented
Speaker 1: him said he was eager to be exonerated. And you notice,
Speaker 1: it's funny, we haven't heard anything from Labar since the
Speaker 1: expanded gag order. Right, seems like Labar was on the
Speaker 1: circuit talking about Brian Colberger all the time, and then
Speaker 1: that expanded gag order comes down and we hear nada
Speaker 1: coming out of Labar. Prosecutors have not yet revealed if
Speaker 1: they intend to seek the death penalty, and a preliminary
Speaker 1: hearing is scheduled for late June. Now we're gonna learn
Speaker 1: a lot more at that preliminary hearing, but we're not
Speaker 1: gonna get all of the information that some people think
Speaker 1: going to get. Instead, the hearing's going to be exactly
Speaker 1: what it says. It's going to be a preliminary hearing,
Speaker 1: gonna get some of the groundwork put in place, probably
Speaker 1: get a few more court dates locked in, and just
Speaker 1: basically setting the tone for what's to come. And we
Speaker 1: all know that this is going to be a lengthy trial,
Speaker 1: a lengthy process, and I wouldn't be shocked to even
Speaker 1: see it start next year. A lot of times when
Speaker 1: you have these high profile cases, that's what you'll see.
Speaker 1: And as far as looking for the death penalty, I
Speaker 1: definitely think that the prosecution is going to attempt to
Speaker 1: attain a death penalty conviction here. I mean, if you
Speaker 1: have the death penalty on the books and you don't
Speaker 1: go after it in a quadruple murder, then when the
Speaker 1: hell are you going to use it? You might as
Speaker 1: well just take it off the books and be done
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: If you're not going to try a guy like this
Speaker 1: who allegedly murdered four people in their beds, then I
Speaker 1: have no idea when this rule would apply, because it
Speaker 1: seems to me that if you're ever going to you
Speaker 1: use the death penalty, now would be the time. Here,
Speaker 1: Newsweek rounds up the latest developments. Defense attorneys set a
Speaker 1: challenge to the order filed by the Associated Press and
Speaker 1: dozens of other news organizations is premature. What the media
Speaker 1: really seeks here is a procedural victory, knowing full well
Speaker 1: it cannot win on the merits of any test given
Speaker 1: the pervasive and grow tesquely twisted nature of media coverage
Speaker 1: that has occurred thus far. Jay Weston Lodgson with the
Speaker 1: Cootney County Public Defender's Office wrote in the court document,
Speaker 1: and what they're trying to do is sow the seeds right,
Speaker 1: so the seeds for later on so they can appeal. Oh,
Speaker 1: there was an extreme prejudice against Brian Kolberger. He didn't
Speaker 1: get a fair shake. The media grotesquely covered the case, YadA, YadA, YadA. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: it's the same thing the media does with every single
Speaker 1: high profile case. Look what happened with Alec Murda. He
Speaker 1: got a fair trial, Right. They were able to find
Speaker 1: some jurors that were impartial in his case.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So you mean to tell me you don't think they're
Speaker 1: going to be able to do the same for Brian Coberger.
Speaker 1: Of course they are. But what his legal team's going
Speaker 1: to say, and they're setting the tone for that right now,
Speaker 1: is that there's no way in hell that the jury
Speaker 1: pool that's selected is not going to be tainted. And
Speaker 1: that's just bs. While it's certainly a concern that you
Speaker 1: don't find jurors who are already swayed one way or
Speaker 1: the other, I think that when all is said and done,
Speaker 1: they'll be able to find impartial jurs and I think
Speaker 1: Brian Coberger's legal team knows that as well. But they're
Speaker 1: going to set the tone and they're going to try
Speaker 1: and set the table for later on during the appeal process.
Speaker 1: He did not cite any examples of what he believes
Speaker 1: to be twisted coverage. In January, Leyta County Magistrate Judge
Speaker 1: Meghan Marshall issued the sweeping gag order, bringing attorneys, law
Speaker 1: enforcement agencies, and others associated with the case from talking
Speaker 1: or writing about it. She later broadened it to also
Speaker 1: prohibit any attorneys representing survivors, witnesses, or the victims' family
Speaker 1: members from talking or writing about the case. Now, I
Speaker 1: know there was some talk about the family members not
Speaker 1: being able to speak with the media, but when you
Speaker 1: read the gag order and what Judge Marshall said, it
Speaker 1: seems that the only people who are really restricted by
Speaker 1: that gag order are the lawyers for the family members,
Speaker 1: And in the court filings that we've looked at, Judge
Speaker 1: Marshall has made a point of saying that that it's
Speaker 1: not the family members who are hit with the gag order,
Speaker 1: it's just the people who are directly involved, meaning lawyers
Speaker 1: and agents of the court.
Speaker 2: So that might work to the court's.
Speaker 1: Benefit in front of the Supreme Court as they're looking
Speaker 1: at what's going on here with that gag order, and
Speaker 1: it's going to be their job to walk that fine
Speaker 1: line between what's constitutional and what's not. The coalition of
Speaker 1: news organizations contends the order violates the right to free
Speaker 1: speech Coburger's representatives contend the order essentially requires the attorneys
Speaker 1: involved in the case to act ethically to ensure Coberger
Speaker 1: gets a fair trial. And again, that's another shot over
Speaker 1: the bow at Shannon Gray. And he's been a target
Speaker 1: of not only Brian Coberger's defense, but the state of Idaho.
Speaker 1: He's really rankled them from the very beginning. And the
Speaker 1: Gonsalvez family is not the favored people of the prosecutors
Speaker 1: of this case. We know that they've had a contentious
Speaker 1: relationship from the very beginning and that continues on with
Speaker 1: these court filings. You might not see it on TV,
Speaker 1: but when you read through the filings, you see just
Speaker 1: how contentious it is. Details of the item seized in
Speaker 1: the search more court documents were unsealed this week, revealing
Speaker 1: the item sees from Coburger's family home following his arrest
Speaker 1: there on the side number thirtieth. The document stated that
Speaker 1: a knife, a Smith and Weston pocket knife, and a
Speaker 1: Block twenty two handgun with three empty magazines were found
Speaker 1: at the home. A cell phone, an acer laptop, black gloves,
Speaker 1: blackface masks, a black hat, and several articles of dark
Speaker 1: colored clothing were also seized. Along with a book with
Speaker 1: underlining on page one eighteen. Now that's interesting. What book
Speaker 1: did they take and what was the underlining on page
Speaker 1: one eighteen That could provide a significant amount of evidence
Speaker 1: for the prosecutors, or on the flip side, it could
Speaker 1: mean nothing at all. We just don't know, But usually
Speaker 1: when they're seizing something like that with a search warrant.
Speaker 1: There's a reason why. Police also searched Coburger's honde a Lantra,
Speaker 1: the garage and a shed on the property. They took
Speaker 1: a door panel, seat cushions, headrests, a seat belt, a visor,
Speaker 1: and breaking gas pedals from the car, as well as
Speaker 1: hike boots, a shovel, goggles and other items. And up
Speaker 1: until this search warrant was executed, the other search warrants
Speaker 1: were pretty underwhelming as far as evidence that was recovered.
Speaker 1: Now we don't know what sort of DNA testing was
Speaker 1: done on that evidence, but as far as just the
Speaker 1: on the face look at it, it really wasn't much here. However,
Speaker 1: this is a treasure trove, an absolute treasure trove of evidence,
Speaker 1: and the fact that they took over sixty items tells
Speaker 1: you that there's a lot there.
Speaker 2: Coburger worked as a fish cutter.
Speaker 1: This week, it emerged that Coburger once had a job
Speaker 1: where he was taught to cut and filet fish. Charles Conklin,
Speaker 1: the owner of Big Brown Fish and pay Lakes in Effort, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: said Coburger was a teenager when he worked for him
Speaker 1: for four months in twenty eleven. Conkland noted that Coburger
Speaker 1: never got profision at his job and that he struggled
Speaker 1: to interact with customers. And that's something we've heard about
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger time and time again. He's had a problem socially.
Speaker 1: Wasn't really somebody who fit in and had a problem
Speaker 1: trying to make new friends and fit into groups. He
Speaker 1: wasn't able to make eye contact with customers and be
Speaker 1: friendly to them. And he never got good enough for
Speaker 1: us to allow him to fillate customers fish, Conklin said
Speaker 1: on News Nation. And he only worked there for three weeks, right,
Speaker 1: wasn't like he was there for a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: time and was some sort of long term employee. But
Speaker 1: it was like a little summer job. Go down to
Speaker 1: the lake. You could help the people with their fishing poles.
Speaker 1: All of that jazz and Brian Coberger and his anti
Speaker 1: social demeanor just wasn't cut out for it. And you
Speaker 1: see later on in life, even though Brian Koberger faked
Speaker 1: the funk pretty well throughout the years, at least while
Speaker 1: he was getting his masters and going after his education.
Speaker 1: But when you're disturbed like this, like the government says
Speaker 1: he is, you can only keep those demons at bay
Speaker 1: for so long before the mask eventually cracks and your
Speaker 1: true faith is revealed. All right, folks, that's gonna do
Speaker 1: it for this one. All of the information that goes
Speaker 1: with the episode can be found in the description box Judy,
Speaker 1: what's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. Judge
Speaker 1: Marshall up in Idaho decided to expand the gag order
Speaker 1: after there were some leaks or potential leaks regarding what
Speaker 1: was going on in the case, at least as far
Speaker 1: as some of the ties that Coburger might have had
Speaker 1: to some of the roommates, meaning Instagram ties, and then
Speaker 1: to hear about the mad Greek. Well, Judge Marshall, in
Speaker 1: response to that it would seem, expanded her gag order
Speaker 1: and made it covered not only the people that are
Speaker 1: working on the case, but the families and any lawyers
Speaker 1: that might be hired by the families. Well, now the
Speaker 1: national media and the local media is pushing back and
Speaker 1: saying that they are opposed to this gag order and
Speaker 1: they think that it is restrictive and that the public
Speaker 1: is entitled to know how everything is operating and to
Speaker 1: make sure that things are operating correctly.
Speaker 2: So there certainly is a fine line to walk.
Speaker 1: As far as what the public is entitled to and
Speaker 1: what needs to be kept secret or sealed so that
Speaker 1: the integrity of the case is not put into jeopardy.
Speaker 1: And that's going to be up to the judge to
Speaker 1: figure out. But with the media here getting together, it's
Speaker 1: going to make things a little more difficult for Judge
Speaker 1: Marshall to get these gag orders just slammed through. So
Speaker 1: let's dive into this article from the AP and let's
Speaker 1: see what Rebecca Boone, the author, has to say. Headline
Speaker 1: news outlets joined to oppose gag order in Idaho stabbing.
Speaker 1: Twenty two regional and national news organizations have formed a
Speaker 1: coalition to ask a judge to narrow a gag order
Speaker 1: in the Caseainst, a man accused of killing for University
Speaker 1: of Idaho students. So they're not asking for the gag
Speaker 1: order to be done away with. They want her to
Speaker 1: narrow it though. They don't want it to be something
Speaker 1: that is so far reaching and so broad. Meaning the
Speaker 1: media obviously they want the information, and what they'll say is, well,
Speaker 1: we want to make sure that the public's informed. And
Speaker 1: while that is the case, let's not forget that they
Speaker 1: want to make sure they're driving those clicks as well. Right,
Speaker 1: The coalition, which includes the Associated Press contends the press
Speaker 1: access to law enforcement officers and other officials involved in
Speaker 1: high stakes criminal cases provides the public with important context
Speaker 1: and a better understanding of how the criminal justice system operates.
Speaker 1: And I am on board with that because it's true,
Speaker 1: right we as the people, should have an idea about
Speaker 1: what's going on inside of those courtrooms, and a lot
Speaker 1: of these judges, unfortunately, run those courtrooms like this. They
Speaker 1: were modern day robber barons and those courtrooms are their fiefdoms.
Speaker 1: So it is important that the media has access to
Speaker 1: what's going on in most cases. But here we have
Speaker 1: to understand that there are some things that are a
Speaker 1: bit fragile, some things that have to be protected. And
Speaker 1: when you're talking about trying to make sure that it's
Speaker 1: a fair trial for the accused. I think it's very
Speaker 1: important that all steps are taken so that occurs. Even
Speaker 1: when it's somebody that we believe is guilty or somebody
Speaker 1: that you know is guilty, they are still afforded the
Speaker 1: same rights. And if they can't get a fair trial
Speaker 1: because of too much media attention, well that's not how
Speaker 1: it's supposed to work. So I understand completely what the
Speaker 1: judge wants to do. But at the same time, I'm
Speaker 1: big on transparency, and I think that everything that can
Speaker 1: be released should be released now. If you want to
Speaker 1: redact some of it, fine, but there should be no
Speaker 1: slow walking court documents, none of that stuff. Anything that
Speaker 1: should be public should be put into the public domain.
Speaker 2: Right away the second it's filed.
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger, twenty eight, is charged with four counts of
Speaker 1: first degree murder and burglary in connection with the stabbing
Speaker 1: deaths in Moscow, Idaho. Prosecutors have yet to reveal if
Speaker 1: they intend to seek the death penalty. Well, that'll come
Speaker 1: at the preliminary hearing, or at the very least we'll
Speaker 1: get more of an idea of what the game plan
Speaker 1: is going to be for the prosecution and for the
Speaker 1: defense because as of now, remember the only sort of
Speaker 1: hearing we've really had is for them to ask for
Speaker 1: a continuance. Basically, I want to wave my right to
Speaker 1: a speedy trial, and I want to get a pause
Speaker 1: put in here so I have some time. But besides that,
Speaker 1: we haven't heard anything at open court yet. The order
Speaker 1: is unnecessarily sweeping and broad and severely impedes the public's
Speaker 1: understanding of a significant criminal investigation that profoundly impacted the
Speaker 1: commune unity, said Josh Hofner, national news director for the
Speaker 1: Associated Press. And look, I agree one hundred percent. It
Speaker 1: is important that there is some transparency, and it's important
Speaker 1: that the.
Speaker 2: Media is able to tell the story.
Speaker 1: The problem is a lot of people in the media
Speaker 1: are scummy, and people don't trust what they have to
Speaker 1: say anyway. The bodies of Madison Mogan, Kelly Gonsavaz, Xanikernodle,
Speaker 1: and Ethan Chapin were found on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: at a rental home across the street from the University
Speaker 1: of Idaho campus. The slayings shocked the rural Idaho community
Speaker 1: and neighboring Pullman, Washington, I think the whole entire country, honestly,
Speaker 1: where Coberger was a graduate student study in criminology at
Speaker 1: Washington State University. The case garnered widespread publicity, and earlier
Speaker 1: this month, Leta County Magistrate Judge Megan Marshall issued a
Speaker 1: gag order barring attorney's, law enforcement agencies and others associated
Speaker 1: with the case from talking about it. On Thursday, she
Speaker 1: broadened that gag order also prohibiting any attorneys representing survivors, witnesses,
Speaker 1: or the victim's family members from talking or writing about
Speaker 1: the case. So this is why the media obviously reacted
Speaker 1: the way they did, and to me, this signals that
Speaker 1: the people's story was correct and true. Now do I
Speaker 1: know that for sure, folks, I do not, and I
Speaker 1: won't sit here and blow smoke up your ass and
Speaker 1: act like I know for sure. But when you look
Speaker 1: at the whole entire thing and you look at it
Speaker 1: as a complete meal, it's rather obvious what's going on here.
Speaker 1: There is a balance between protecting the right to a
Speaker 1: fair trial for all parties involved and the right to
Speaker 1: free expression, as afforded under both the United States and
Speaker 1: Idaho Constitution, Marshall wrote in the amended Order, to preserve
Speaker 1: the right to a fair trial, some curtailment of the
Speaker 1: dissemination of information in this case is necessary and authorized
Speaker 1: under the law. Dan Shelley, the president of the Radio
Speaker 1: Television Digital News Association, said there are other ways to
Speaker 1: ensure a fair trial. The National Association is a member
Speaker 1: of the Coalition. So look, obviously the media has their
Speaker 1: own motivations here, but their motivations do dovetail with what
Speaker 1: the people should be able to see and hear. Now again,
Speaker 1: if there's stuff that should be sealed, then keep it sealed.
Speaker 1: But I'm not too much of a fan of an
Speaker 1: overall sweeping gag order such as this, to be honest
Speaker 1: with you, And we didn't even see a gag order
Speaker 1: like this, hell a gag order at all in the
Speaker 1: Glenn Maxwell trial. And you want to talk about infamy,
Speaker 1: We're talking about a trial that was just insane. It
Speaker 1: spanned continents, people were interested all over the world, and
Speaker 1: Judge Nathan didn't use a gag order at all in
Speaker 1: that case. Courts across this country are frequently able, even
Speaker 1: in the highest of high profile cases, to find ways
Speaker 1: to balance defendants rights with the rights of the public
Speaker 1: to have vital information, there is no reason why this
Speaker 1: court can't do the same, Shelley said. The media coalition
Speaker 1: includes several news outlets based nationally and in the Pacific Northwest,
Speaker 1: including The Seattle Times, The New York Times, The Idaho Statesman,
Speaker 1: Boise dev KHQ and Spokane, Washington, and KTVB and Boise, Idaho.
Speaker 1: The coalition is expected to file court documents opposing the
Speaker 1: gag order in the coming days.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I don't know how successful it's going to be, but
Speaker 1: it's certainly something that.
Speaker 2: The media has to do.
Speaker 1: If they feel like it's being restrictive and they can't
Speaker 1: tell the story, well, they're going to file and try
Speaker 1: and get the gag order removed. As far as it
Speaker 1: being successful, that's anyone's guests.
Speaker 2: Ready to want.
Speaker 1: The case drew worldwide attention, particularly from people who style
Speaker 1: themselves as sloths on social media sites. In the weeks
Speaker 1: before Coburger's arrest, some of those sleuths publicize their own
Speaker 1: theories about the slayings online. The theories often wrongly place
Speaker 1: the blame on the victim, surviving friends, relatives, or others.
Speaker 1: News organizations interviews with investigators often work to quash some
Speaker 1: of those rumors and counter misinformation spread online. And there's
Speaker 1: no doubt that if you want to combat misinformation, you
Speaker 1: got to be transparent. I've said this since the very beginning.
Speaker 1: The more secretive you are, the more room and air
Speaker 1: you're going to give for weird ass conspiracy theories to breathe.
Speaker 1: And that's just how it works when there's a lack
Speaker 1: of information, where when there's a lack of official information,
Speaker 1: people are going to make shit up. How many people
Speaker 1: have main character syndrome out there, where they think that
Speaker 1: they're the main character in every single story, even the
Speaker 1: ones that don't involve them. Such publicity often presents a
Speaker 1: conundrum for judges who work to protect the defendant's right
Speaker 1: to a fair trial. Courts sometimes feel that controlling the
Speaker 1: flow of information around a criminal case by forbidding those
Speaker 1: involved from talking about it is an effective way to
Speaker 1: limit publicity and help protect that fair trial right, but
Speaker 1: gag orders can infringe on the First Amendment rights of
Speaker 1: the public and of the people involved in the case.
Speaker 1: News organizations that cover the courts serve as a watchdog role,
Speaker 1: keeping the public informed about how the judicial branch operates,
Speaker 1: and they're not wrong about that. The whole entire idea
Speaker 1: and the whole entire premise behind the fourth estate, meaning
Speaker 1: the media is so that they can hold people in
Speaker 1: power to account. Now, they haven't really lived up to
Speaker 1: their obligations lately, let's be real, but there's no doubt
Speaker 1: that they should be holding people in power to account.
Speaker 1: Conversations with the officials involved in criminal cases helps journalists
Speaker 1: understand the nuances of legal arguments and the technical steps
Speaker 1: of court proceedings so their coverage can be fair and thorough,
Speaker 1: said Media Coalition member and Idaho Press Club Betsy Russell.
Speaker 2: Look, I agree with that.
Speaker 1: I want to be as open and fair here on
Speaker 1: the podcast as possible. Whatever evidence that's out there, I
Speaker 1: want to put into the catalog so you have access
Speaker 1: to it. Whether it be evidence that shows that the
Speaker 1: prosecution's case is weak or that the prosecution's case is
Speaker 1: a slam dunk. Either way, it's going to be added
Speaker 1: to the catalog here, and personally I feel like the
Speaker 1: more context the better. But at the same time, I
Speaker 1: definitely understand at the very least a basic gag order
Speaker 1: in this case, because, like we've said before, you don't
Speaker 1: want to give this guy a chance to have some
Speaker 1: technicalities or a loophole later on down the road after
Speaker 1: a conviction, and we see Glenn Maxwell trying to maneuver
Speaker 1: to get the same thing, so well, I'd be very
Speaker 1: aware of that if I was the prosecution, and I
Speaker 1: think that they are. We're not lawyers for the most part,
Speaker 1: nor are our readers, and those explanations can help make
Speaker 1: sure that inaccurate information isn't spread about what's happening in
Speaker 1: our halls of justice, Russell said. And look, I'm certainly
Speaker 1: no lawyer, folks, and we'll muddle our way through it
Speaker 1: all together. But the goal is to make sure that
Speaker 1: everybody is kept up to date on what exactly is
Speaker 1: going on in this case, and that's why we do
Speaker 1: the court filings as well without any commentary. For those
Speaker 1: of you who just want to follow along with the
Speaker 1: official story and don't want to hear my fat yap run,
Speaker 1: you can go check out those court files. The US
Speaker 1: Supreme Court has found that gag orders do infringe on
Speaker 1: the public's right to know what is going on in
Speaker 1: the nation's courtrooms, but the High Court has also said
Speaker 1: that some gag orders are permissible as long as they
Speaker 1: are the least restrictive way to ensure a fair trial
Speaker 1: and are narrowly tailored to achieve their aim.
Speaker 2: Now, is this gag order narrowly tailored? I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's going to be up to the courts to decide.
Speaker 1: I guess now that it's been brought up by the Coalition.
Speaker 1: The first gag order issued by Marshall on January third,
Speaker 1: did not include any stated reason for why she felt
Speaker 1: the gag order was needed. It prohibited the parties in
Speaker 1: the criminal case, including investigators, law enforcement personnel, attorneys, and
Speaker 1: agents of the prosecuting attorney or defense attorney, from making
Speaker 1: any statements outside of court other than directly quoting actual
Speaker 1: court records filed in the case. So they're trying to
Speaker 1: make it stringent, right, no information coming out of that
Speaker 1: courtroom whatsoever. Accept what's in those court files. And that's
Speaker 1: why it's going to be so important that they allow
Speaker 1: cameras and journalists into this courtroom and the public, honestly,
Speaker 1: because if they're going to be this stringent with information,
Speaker 1: it is very, very very important that we're getting good
Speaker 1: journalistic work out of that courtroom. Notably, both the prosecution
Speaker 1: and defense attorneys had filed the document roughly two hours earlier,
Speaker 1: saying they agreed to the creation of a gag order
Speaker 1: and wanted it to include investigators and law enforcement. So
Speaker 1: both sides agree, right, they don't want any information coming out.
Speaker 1: They want to control what comes out. They want to
Speaker 1: make sure that the narrative is whatever they craft it
Speaker 1: to be. But that certainly comes with pitfalls, because if
Speaker 1: you're not having any information out there, people are going
Speaker 1: to make up things, and there's going to be crazy
Speaker 1: ass conspiracy theories. Mark my words, this court has both
Speaker 1: a constitutional duty and inherent authority to minimize the effects
Speaker 1: of prejudicial pre trial publicity and to ensure the administration
Speaker 1: of justice. Coberger's defense attorney and Taylor and Leyta County
Speaker 1: prosecutor Bill Thompson wrote in Thursday's amended gag order expanded
Speaker 1: the prohibition, adding any attorneys representing witnesses, victims, or victims
Speaker 1: family members to the list, and also added Labar. Remember,
Speaker 1: so I don't think we'll be hearing much from Labar
Speaker 1: anymore either. Like I stated earlier, the amended order also
Speaker 1: prohibits any statement that is not a direct quote from court.
Speaker 1: Documents and specifically calls out a number of specifically prohibited
Speaker 1: types of statements, including any opinion as to the merits
Speaker 1: of the case or the claims or defense of a party,
Speaker 1: and any statements about evidence regarding the occurrences or transactions
Speaker 1: involved in the case. Coburger is scheduled for a five
Speaker 1: day preliminary hearing starting June twenty six. All right, folks,
Speaker 1: well there it is. You have the media coming together
Speaker 1: now and challenging this gag order.
Speaker 2: What do you think.
Speaker 1: Do you think the media will be successful in getting
Speaker 1: this gag order lifted or getting it to decrease a bit,
Speaker 1: or do you think the gag order will remain in place.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
Speaker 1: at Bobby Kapucci at ProtonMail dot com. That's bo Bby
Speaker 1: c ap u Cci at proton mail dot com. You
Speaker 1: can also find me on Twitter at bo bby underscore
Speaker 1: c ap u Cci. The link that I discussed can
Speaker 1: be found in the description.
Speaker 2: Box my brether in law.
Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. One
Speaker 1: of the key factors that has been under discussion in
Speaker 1: the investigation into the Moscow murders and Brian Kohberger has
Speaker 1: been the gag order. It has been challenged not only
Speaker 1: by Kaylee Gonsalvez family's lawyer, Shannon Gray, but it has
Speaker 1: also been challenged by the media, and it's now working
Speaker 1: its way through the Supreme Court, and it's been rather contentious.
Speaker 1: Some of the filings that have been put on the
Speaker 1: court docket by both sides have been rather condescending, and
Speaker 1: especially coming from the State of Idaho and especially Brian
Speaker 1: Kolberger's defense team, which absolutely rip Shannon Gray apart in
Speaker 1: these filings, basically saying he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Speaker 1: And it's always interesting to get a glimpse behind the
Speaker 1: scenes to what's going on in a case like this
Speaker 1: when there's a gag order, because we have no idea,
Speaker 1: right it's not like one of these cases where we're
Speaker 1: getting daily reports from the prosecution or the defense. Nobody's
Speaker 1: holding press conferences anymore. So the best way to follow
Speaker 1: along with all of this is to follow along with
Speaker 1: the court filings and see what they have to say.
Speaker 1: And so far it's been relatively contentious when it comes
Speaker 1: to this gag order, and I can understand why. I
Speaker 1: think there's a legitimate argument to be made on both sides.
Speaker 1: I think that the First Amendment is something that should
Speaker 1: always be protected and something that should never be stepped on.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I realized that Brian Coolberger,
Speaker 1: he deserves a fair trial. He certainly deserves a fair shake,
Speaker 1: and he deserves to have a jury that is impartial.
Speaker 1: And even with that impartial jury, I don't think it'll
Speaker 1: matter because the evidence certainly is lining up against Brian Colberger.
Speaker 1: So today we're going to dive into an article from Newsweek,
Speaker 1: and we're going to get a quick update on some
Speaker 1: of the key developments from the past few days. So
Speaker 1: let's dive into this article and let's see what author
Speaker 1: Kalida Rockman has for US headline Brian Coohberger gag order
Speaker 1: and other key developments from the investigation. Defense attorneys for
Speaker 1: Brian Colberger, the man accused of murdering for University of
Speaker 1: Idaho students, asked the Idaho Supreme Court this week to
Speaker 1: keep a gag order in place, and they also argued
Speaker 1: during those court filings that the Supreme Court was not
Speaker 1: the proper forum to even chase this rid of mandamus.
Speaker 1: They're saying that they should have tried to pursue this
Speaker 1: at the magistrate court level, and they just bunny hopped
Speaker 1: all of that and went directly to the Supreme Court
Speaker 1: looking for a redress. And that's not the proper forum,
Speaker 1: according to the State of Idaho and to Brian Cohberger's attorneys. Coburger,
Speaker 1: twenty eight, is accused of breaking into a rental home
Speaker 1: near the university campus in Moscow and fatally stabbing Kaylee Gonsalves,
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin in the early
Speaker 1: hours of November thirteenth, of twenty twenty two. Coburger is
Speaker 1: charged with four counts of first degree murder and one
Speaker 1: count of felony burglary. He has yet to enter a
Speaker 1: plea to the charges, but a lawyer who previously represented
Speaker 1: him said he was eager to be exonerated. And you notice,
Speaker 1: it's funny, we haven't heard anything from Labar since the
Speaker 1: expanded gag order, right. It seems like Lebar was on
Speaker 1: the circuit talking about Brian Koberger all the time, and
Speaker 1: then that expanded gag order comes down and we hear
Speaker 1: nada coming out of Lebar. Prosecutors have not yet revealed.
Speaker 1: If they intend to seek the death penalty, and a
Speaker 1: preliminary hearing is scheduled for late June, now we're gonna
Speaker 1: learn a lot more at that preliminary hearing, but we're
Speaker 1: not gonna get all of the information that some people
Speaker 1: think we're going to get. Instead, the hearing's going to
Speaker 1: be exactly what it says. It's going to be a
Speaker 1: preliminary hearing, gonna get some of the groundwork put in place,
Speaker 1: probably get a few more court dates locked in, and
Speaker 1: just basically setting the tone for what's to come. And
Speaker 1: we all know that this is going to be a
Speaker 1: lengthy trial, a lengthy process, and I wouldn't be shocked
Speaker 1: to even see it start next year. A lot of
Speaker 1: times when you have these high profile cases, that's what
Speaker 1: you'll see. And as far as looking for the death penalty,
Speaker 1: I definitely think that the prosecutor is going to attempt
Speaker 1: to attain a death penalty conviction here. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you have the death penalty on the books and you
Speaker 1: don't go after it in a quadruple murder, then when
Speaker 1: the hell are you going to use it? You might
Speaker 1: as well just take it off the books and be
Speaker 1: done with it right. If you're not going to try
Speaker 1: a guy like this who allegedly murdered four people in
Speaker 1: their beds, then I have no idea when this rule
Speaker 1: would apply, because it seems to me that if you're
Speaker 1: ever going to use the death penalty, now would be
Speaker 1: the time. Here Newsweek rounds up the latest developments. Defense
Speaker 1: attorneys set a challenge to the order filed by the
Speaker 1: Associated Press and dozens of other news organizations is premature.
Speaker 1: What the media really seeks here is a procedural victory,
Speaker 1: knowing full well it cannot win on the merits of
Speaker 1: any test given the pervasive and grotesquely twisted nature of
Speaker 1: media coverage that has occurred thus far. Jay Weston Lodgson
Speaker 1: with a cootney can any public defender's office wrote in
Speaker 1: the court document. And what they're trying to do is
Speaker 1: sow the seeds right, so the seeds for later on
Speaker 1: so they can appeal. Oh, there was an extreme prejudice
Speaker 1: against Brian Coolberger. He didn't get a fair shake. The
Speaker 1: media grotesquely covered the case, YadA, YadA, YadA. Meanwhile, it's
Speaker 1: the same thing the media does with every single high
Speaker 1: profile case. Look what happened with Alec Murda, he got
Speaker 1: a fair trial.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: They were able to find some jurors that were impartial
Speaker 1: in his case, right, So you mean to tell me
Speaker 1: you don't think they're going to be able to do
Speaker 1: the same for Brian Cooberger.
Speaker 2: Of course they are.
Speaker 1: But what his legal team's going to say, and they're
Speaker 1: setting the tone for that right now, is that there's
Speaker 1: no way in hell that the jury pool that's selected
Speaker 1: is not going to be tainted. And that's just bs.
Speaker 1: While it's certainly a concern that you don't find jurors
Speaker 1: who are already you know, swayed one way or the other,
Speaker 1: I think that when all is said and done, they'll
Speaker 1: be able to find impartial jurors. And I think Brian
Speaker 1: Kolberger's legal team knows that as well. But they're going
Speaker 1: to set the tone and they're going to try and
Speaker 1: set the table for later on during the appeal process.
Speaker 1: He did not cite any examples of what he believes
Speaker 1: to be twisted coverage. In January, Leita County Magistrate Judge
Speaker 1: Megan Marshall issued the sweeping gag order bringing attorneys, law
Speaker 1: enforcement agencies, and others associated with the case from talking
Speaker 1: or writing about it. She later broadened it to also
Speaker 1: prohibit any attorneys representing survivors, witnesses, or the victims' family
Speaker 1: members from talking or writing about the case.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I know there was some talk about the family members
Speaker 1: not being able to speak with the media, but when
Speaker 1: you read the gag order and what Judge Marshall said,
Speaker 1: it seems that the only people who were really restricted
Speaker 1: by that gag order are the lawyers for the family members,
Speaker 1: and in the court filings that we've looked at, Judge
Speaker 1: Marshall has made a point of saying that that it's
Speaker 1: not the family members who are hit with a gag order,
Speaker 1: it's just the people who are directly involved, meaning lawyers
Speaker 1: and agents of the court. So that might work to
Speaker 1: the court's benefit in front of the Supreme Court as
Speaker 1: they're looking at what's going on here with that gag order,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be their job to walk that
Speaker 1: fine line between what's constitutional and what's not. The Coalition
Speaker 1: of news organizations contends the order violates the right to
Speaker 1: free speech. Coburger's representatives contend the order essentially requires the
Speaker 1: attorneys involved in the case to act ethically to ensure
Speaker 1: Coburger gets a fair trial, and again that's another shot
Speaker 1: over the bow at Shannon Gray. And he's been a
Speaker 1: target of not only Brian Coberger's defense, but the state
Speaker 1: of Idaho. He's really rankled them from the very beginning.
Speaker 1: And the Gonsalvez family is not the favored people of
Speaker 1: the prosecutor of this case. We know that they've had
Speaker 1: a contentious relationship from the very beginning and that continues
Speaker 1: on with these court filings. You might not see it
Speaker 1: on TV, but when you read through the filings, you
Speaker 1: see just how contentious it is. Details of the item
Speaker 1: seized in the search more court documents were unsealed this week,
Speaker 1: revealing the item sees from Coberger's family home following his
Speaker 1: arrest there on December thirtieth. The document stated that a knife,
Speaker 1: a smith and Weston pocket knife, and a Block twenty
Speaker 1: two handgun with three empty magazines were found at the home.
Speaker 1: A cell phone, an acer laptop, black gloves, blackface masks,
Speaker 1: a black hat, and several articles of dark colored clothing
Speaker 1: were also seized, along with a book with underlining on
Speaker 1: page one eighteen. Now that's interesting. What book did they
Speaker 1: take and what was the underlining on page one eighteen.
Speaker 1: That could provide a significant amount of evidence for the prosecutors,
Speaker 1: or on the flip side, it could mean nothing at all.
Speaker 1: We just don't know, but usually when they're seizing something
Speaker 1: like that with a search warrant, there's a reason why.
Speaker 1: Police also searched Coburger's honde a Lantra, the garage, and
Speaker 1: a shed on the property. They took a door panel,
Speaker 1: seat cushions, headrests, a seat belt, a visor, and breaking
Speaker 1: gas pedals from the car, as well as hiking boots,
Speaker 1: a shovel, goggles and other items. And up until this
Speaker 1: search warrant was executed, the other search warrants were pretty
Speaker 1: underwhelming as far as evidence that was recovered. Now we
Speaker 1: don't know what sort of DNA testing was done on
Speaker 1: that evidence, but as far as just the on the
Speaker 1: face look at it, it really wasn't much here. However,
Speaker 1: this is a treasure trove, an absolute treasure trove of evidence,
Speaker 1: and the fact that they took over sixty items tells
Speaker 1: you that there's a lot there. Coburger worked as a
Speaker 1: fish cutter. This week, it emerged that Coburger once had
Speaker 1: a job where he was taught to cut and file
Speaker 1: at Fish. Charles Conklin, the owner of Big Brown Fish
Speaker 1: and pay Lakes in Effort, Pennsylvania, said Coburger was a
Speaker 1: teenager when he worked for him for four months in
Speaker 1: twenty eleven. Conkland noted that Coburger never got profision at
Speaker 1: his job and that he struggled to interact with customers.
Speaker 1: And that's something we've heard about Brian Colberger time and
Speaker 1: time again. He's had a problem socially. Wasn't really somebody
Speaker 1: who fit in and had a problem trying to make
Speaker 1: new friends and fit into groups. He wasn't able to
Speaker 1: make eye contact with customers and be friendly to them,
Speaker 1: and he never got good enough for us to allow
Speaker 1: him to filly customers fish, Conkland said on News Nation.
Speaker 1: And he only worked there for three weeks, right, wasn't
Speaker 1: like he was there for a whole bunch of time
Speaker 1: and was some sort of long term employee.
Speaker 2: But it was like a little summer job, go down
Speaker 2: to the lake.
Speaker 1: You could help the people with their fishing poles, all
Speaker 1: of that jazz, and Brian Coberger and his antisocial demeanor
Speaker 1: just wasn't cut out for it. And you see later
Speaker 1: on in life, even though Brian Coberger faked the funk
Speaker 1: pretty well throughout the years, at least while he was
Speaker 1: getting his masters and going after his education. But when
Speaker 1: you're disturbed like this, like the government says he is,
Speaker 1: you can only keep those demons at bay for so
Speaker 1: long before the mask eventually cracks and your true faith
Speaker 1: is revealed. All Right, folks, that's gonna do it for
Speaker 1: this one. All of the information that goes with the
Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box.
Speaker 2: Judy