Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBSY, Boston's radio home.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Nicoll, hold you and yours and
Speaker 2: everyone in the audience had a great Saint Patrick's Day weekend.
Speaker 2: Nobody got in any sort of trouble with anyone. My
Speaker 2: name's Dan Ray. Host of Nightside, Rob Brooks is in
Speaker 2: the control room back at the Big Broadcast Control Room
Speaker 2: in downtown Medford, and we are set for another week
Speaker 2: of Nightside. I will be here god willing five nights
Speaker 2: this week from eight until midnight, so we have wats
Speaker 2: to cover between now and Friday night at midnight. We
Speaker 2: we'll be talking at nine o'clock tonight about some late
Speaker 2: developments on the eve of the White Stadium legal battle
Speaker 2: with a representative of both points of view on this
Speaker 2: interesting case. We'll talk about that, and we'll also talk
Speaker 2: about some of the deportations in the back and forth
Speaker 2: that's been going on between the White House and a
Speaker 2: judge down in Washington, DC, and give you a chance
Speaker 2: to weigh in. But first, we of course have the
Speaker 2: eight o'clock hour and I have four interesting guests, none
Speaker 2: more interesting than my good friend Jim Brett. Jim and
Speaker 2: I are together just about every Saint Patrick's Day weekend.
Speaker 2: We were at the Dorchester sixteenth annual Saint Patrick's Day
Speaker 2: Brunch on Saturday from nine thirty to noon at the
Speaker 2: Saint Teresa of Calcutta Parish Hall. Jim Brett, welcome back.
Speaker 2: I think we had a pretty pretty good morning in Dorchester.
Speaker 3: I think we did better than a pretty good morning,
Speaker 3: and I thank you for your support and your advocacy
Speaker 3: on behalf of the food Pantry. As you said, it's
Speaker 3: sixteenth anniversary of putting this breakfast together, and I wouldn't
Speaker 3: be able to do any of these sixteen dinners breakfast
Speaker 3: without the support of my wife, Patty, and I am
Speaker 3: grateful for her her advocacy. I'm making sure that the
Speaker 3: breakfast is a stellar event and anyone that comes to
Speaker 3: the event, and I always say good people come together
Speaker 3: for a good cause, and that cause is the Food Pantry,
Speaker 3: and it's needed now more than ever. Even in our
Speaker 3: own neighborhoods in Boston, there are people who are looking
Speaker 3: for an extra bag of groceries, and quite frankly, the
Speaker 3: bags that we prepare and distribute to our neighbors and
Speaker 3: our neighbors in need, they're about one hundred dollars worth
Speaker 3: of goods, all nutritious items, and that makes a world
Speaker 3: of difference to a lot of our neighbors. So you
Speaker 3: don't have to go far to find a way to
Speaker 3: help your neighbor in need. And this is what we
Speaker 3: do at the Marianne Bread Food Pantry each and every week.
Speaker 3: Not only do we give out the groceries and the
Speaker 3: packaged goods and the kins of beans, but on occasion
Speaker 3: people will come to us and say, we have toys
Speaker 3: we want to distribute to you, to you to give
Speaker 3: to the to the children in Rochester and rock spray
Speaker 3: matter pants. There are people who come in with clothing,
Speaker 3: brand new clothing, and say, why don't you distribute that
Speaker 3: to some of your neighbors. And I'm telling you, when
Speaker 3: you distribute a brand new jacket or a brand new sweater,
Speaker 3: you and I may take for that granted it's a
Speaker 3: new sweater. You give it to somebody in the neighborhood
Speaker 3: and they they may say this the first time I've
Speaker 3: ever had a new new sweater. So that's why I
Speaker 3: always say, you don't have to go far to find
Speaker 3: a way of making a difference. The marian Bread Food
Speaker 3: pantry with extraordinary volunteers. I'm making a difference and helping
Speaker 3: our neighbors cope, cope with day to day struggles that
Speaker 3: they're having. And we do all five hundred families a month.
Speaker 3: And you know, the volunteers are just that, they're volunteers.
Speaker 3: But you know when anybody comes to that food pantry fundraiser,
Speaker 3: I really believe they open their eyes at the same
Speaker 3: time there their heart is touched by what that food
Speaker 3: pantry represents in the neighborhood.
Speaker 2: Well, it's amazing, it's in a beautiful what used Well,
Speaker 2: I guess what still is Saint Margaret's Church. I know
Speaker 2: there's a little bit of it's named because of a
Speaker 2: visit that I think Saint Teresa made there many years
Speaker 2: ago called It's in the Saint Teresa of Calcutta Parish
Speaker 2: Hall at church. Yes uh. And of course this was
Speaker 2: started by the Brett family, a great family from Dorchester
Speaker 2: in honor of your your late mom Mary and Brett,
Speaker 2: which which honors her memory and helps so many people
Speaker 2: over the course of a year. Is it five hundred
Speaker 2: families that.
Speaker 3: That we do about five hundred families a month? We
Speaker 3: do five hundred families a month, and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I assume that that cast can that group of
Speaker 2: families can change over the course of the year. So
Speaker 2: it's just not four hundred. Yeah, it may be ye,
Speaker 2: many more than five hundred who at some point are help.
Speaker 2: Maybe some are help there every month. Right, So once
Speaker 2: tell us if people are in the neighborhood and they
Speaker 2: need it, need some help, how do they get in
Speaker 2: touch with you? The money's been raised, h you know what,
Speaker 2: the hard work has been done for a year by
Speaker 2: the Bread family. But boy, how do they get in touch?
Speaker 2: They get it? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Who's Yeah, well it could be John Roni father John
Speaker 3: Ronigan at the church itself. But you know it would
Speaker 3: be wonderful is just to have volunteers. We always look
Speaker 3: for volunteers. Boy, if they ever came by the Fool
Speaker 3: pantry on any given Saturday morning from nine to eleven,
Speaker 3: and we do have them on occasion to come and
Speaker 3: to h and to observe what we do. I think
Speaker 3: they get addicted and they said, I want to be here,
Speaker 3: I want to help. I feel as though I'm making
Speaker 3: a difference. So I would suggest anyone on the radio
Speaker 3: listening audience, if you're interested in knowing more about the
Speaker 3: food pintry.
Speaker 4: Come by in.
Speaker 3: Any Saturday morning between nine and eleven, and I think
Speaker 3: you will be pretty as I say, I think anyone
Speaker 3: that comes, they are their eyes will be opened and
Speaker 3: the hard will be touched by what we do.
Speaker 2: Well, you had a great turnout. You had most of
Speaker 2: the politicians who represent the area. I know that Congressman
Speaker 2: Lynch always makes a very generous donation and actually gives
Speaker 2: people an opportunity to have a tour of the capital,
Speaker 2: a legitimate tour of the capital where you're invited in
Speaker 2: and they get I think, get to have lunch with him.
Speaker 2: I know that's an item that a lot of people
Speaker 2: are always very anxious to bid on. And I mean
Speaker 2: there's some artwork there and there's a lot of sports tickets,
Speaker 2: so it's a great it's a great event. People. How
Speaker 2: could they You must have a website, I assume where
Speaker 2: people can also get some more information, I hope, but.
Speaker 3: You know they could. I'd like to see them come
Speaker 3: to the first of all, come to the church. But
Speaker 3: you could call my office uh six one, seven, seven,
Speaker 3: two three four oh oh nine, and I'll give them
Speaker 3: more information on whether they want to contribute the time
Speaker 3: or donate, donate some clothing or some toys, and the
Speaker 3: and the future. But you can call that number and
Speaker 3: just ask for me, and I'll be more than happy
Speaker 3: to give them the information that will bring them, you know,
Speaker 3: directly to the food pantry. But you know I use
Speaker 3: this wonder.
Speaker 2: Let me just let me repeat that number one more time, Jim, okay,
Speaker 2: six six seven.
Speaker 3: Seven to three seven two three four oh oh nine.
Speaker 2: Okay, and Rob write that number down in case anyone
Speaker 2: misses it, because it's tough to uh to write numbers.
Speaker 2: But again, you seventeenth annual Saint Patrick's Brunch. What day
Speaker 2: will it fall? And it's always on the Saturday of
Speaker 2: Saint Patrick's Day weekend. I want to make plans to
Speaker 2: be here.
Speaker 3: I haven't looked at the caer, but it is the
Speaker 3: Sat before the big Shindy in South Boston, their breakfast,
Speaker 3: So it's always that weekend of the festivities.
Speaker 2: And self, I'll bet you, I'll bet it's going to
Speaker 2: be I'll bet it's going to be the fourteenth, because
Speaker 2: I think what happens is days get moved up. This
Speaker 2: was not but so sometime in early March, and what
Speaker 2: we should do next year Jim is, maybe talk about
Speaker 2: it sometime in January as we're coming up to it
Speaker 2: would be great, great to that would be great to
Speaker 2: talk about what was accomplished. And a lot of money
Speaker 2: was raised, and a lot of people.
Speaker 3: A lot of money, a lot of nice people. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, the generosity was overwhelming. There are just no
Speaker 3: words too, There were really no words adequate enough to
Speaker 3: just express my deep appreciation. But I'll tell you a
Speaker 3: wonderful example is that we had a gentleman who gave
Speaker 3: us one hundred dollars for the last five years and
Speaker 3: we always appreciated. This year became as a recipient and
Speaker 3: asking for a bag of groceries, which tells me that
Speaker 3: we're only we're only a few steps away ourselves from
Speaker 3: being a donor to a recipient. So uh, it could
Speaker 3: be a health issue in the family, termination of employment.
Speaker 3: I mean, we don't judge, but it was remarkable how
Speaker 3: it just so quickly it could turn that somebody is
Speaker 3: now saying, look, when I was able to I gave.
Speaker 3: Now I'm asking if you could give me in the
Speaker 3: some assistance.
Speaker 2: Much going from going from being a donor to a
Speaker 2: to a beneficiary simple as simple as that right, Jim
Speaker 2: Brett is always great to see you on Saturday. Thanks
Speaker 2: for what you and brother Bill and Harry and your
Speaker 2: sisters do in memory of.
Speaker 3: You and and my bride Patty. I don't want to
Speaker 3: go as you know, she had a new balanced shoes on.
Speaker 3: She was running all over the.
Speaker 4: Breakfast.
Speaker 2: Look I've learned over the year without Patty, it doesn't happen,
Speaker 2: So trust me on that you want to.
Speaker 3: Right, what ma'am?
Speaker 2: Thanks Jimmy, talk soon.
Speaker 3: All right, thank you, You're very welcome.
Speaker 2: Good night. All right, we get back. We're going to
Speaker 2: talk about tales for the Trails if you're up in
Speaker 2: Essex County. I think there's some exercise involved in the
Speaker 2: next one. And then we're going to talk a little
Speaker 2: bit later on with a book author called Law at
Speaker 2: the Movies. I'm looking to be really interested in that.
Speaker 2: And then we're going to talk with someone about the
Speaker 2: fact that tipping tipping is getting out of control in
Speaker 2: many respects. So those would be the three other topics
Speaker 2: we'll talk about between now and nine. And we'll get
Speaker 2: into the issue of the White Stadium lawsuit that's going on.
Speaker 2: There's there's some very strong feelings on both sides of
Speaker 2: this case, and we'll talk to people represented on both sides,
Speaker 2: and then we'll talk about the deportations that went on
Speaker 2: this weekend. And I think it's I think that's a
Speaker 2: really interesting issue that we're going to get into pretty deeply.
Speaker 2: After ten o'clock back on night Side. My name is
Speaker 2: Dan Ray. No phone calls yet, but we'll get to
Speaker 2: you right after the nine on that stay with us
Speaker 2: back after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Speaker 1: night Side Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: Well Spring is right around the corner. Sat Patrick's Day.
Speaker 2: Weekend is ending in a couple of hours, and for
Speaker 2: me that is always the marker that winter is over
Speaker 2: and spring is here. The Essex County Trail Association's tail
Speaker 2: for the trails five K casual can Across coming up
Speaker 2: on March twenty ninth. Talking with Martha Sanders. She is
Speaker 2: the chair of the Board of Directors for the Essex
Speaker 2: County Trail Association and this is called the can Across.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking the first four letters there of C A
Speaker 2: and I might have something to do with K nine
Speaker 2: him Martha Savis.
Speaker 5: Hi, I'm fine, Thank you, thanks so much for having
Speaker 5: me on. Yes, you're correct, Candi. The candy part is
Speaker 5: for canine. It's actually sort of a hybrid of canine
Speaker 5: and cross country because this is a cross country run
Speaker 5: with a person and a dog who are attached.
Speaker 2: Really really, now, how many years have you? Is this
Speaker 2: the first time? I've never heard of this one before.
Speaker 2: You've probably have done it for twenty years that I've
Speaker 2: just never.
Speaker 5: Heard of it. It is fairly new. It's new to
Speaker 5: this area. This is our third coming up a week
Speaker 5: from Saturday, and so it's a fairly new event. We're
Speaker 5: an old organization forty we've been in business for forty years,
Speaker 5: and we do lots of trail events. This is fairly
Speaker 5: new and it's the only race of its kind in Massachusetts.
Speaker 5: I think there is another one now, I'm not sure
Speaker 5: when it is in Medfield possibly, but it's more of
Speaker 5: a dog walk and can across. A few choose to
Speaker 5: do it, but we we expect people to, you know,
Speaker 5: adhere to the rules that are very specific for Canton Cross.
Speaker 2: I have never heard of this before. Okay, I have
Speaker 2: never heard of anything like this before. When you think
Speaker 2: about let's say a five K or a ten K.
Speaker 2: Now five K is going to be about three point
Speaker 2: one miles if I recall correct exactly. Okay, yeah, Now
Speaker 2: are these trails wooded trails where there's you know tree,
Speaker 2: you know trees, roots of trees or is this a
Speaker 2: fairly flat course?
Speaker 5: First of all, well, this is one of our challenges
Speaker 5: when we decided a few years ago that we wanted
Speaker 5: to do this. We needed to find the right locations
Speaker 5: for it, because there are two things you need. Well,
Speaker 5: diverse terrain is always preferable, but you need to start
Speaker 5: in a big open field because when you have fifty
Speaker 5: sixty people and their dogs in a start line and
Speaker 5: they need to get sorted out. So what happens is
Speaker 5: we're up in West Newbury. We start in the outfield
Speaker 5: of a ball field. We have a big, wide line
Speaker 5: and then within a few minutes the field of runners
Speaker 5: starts to narrow down. The fastest people are out in front,
Speaker 5: and it gets because by the time they go through
Speaker 5: the fields, they're going to be in the woods and
Speaker 5: then it's single track for part of it, and their
Speaker 5: hills their roots there. So it's it's it's somewhat challenging,
Speaker 5: it's not terribly difficult, but the main challenge is getting
Speaker 5: in sync with your dog to do it. Because you've
Speaker 5: got a waste belt. You have a bungee cord, so
Speaker 5: you have an elastic cord that's six to ten feet long,
Speaker 5: and then it's attached to a dog with a running harness.
Speaker 5: And a running harness is one where they it's clipped.
Speaker 5: The contact point is to are there back in and
Speaker 5: it's it's designed so that they can pull and it's
Speaker 5: comfortable for them. So you're attached.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me ask you. I'm really fascinated. This is
Speaker 2: this your group Tails for the Trails? Is there a
Speaker 2: charity that benefits from this or is this really.
Speaker 3: Or is this fantastically an.
Speaker 2: Event that that has been put together which pays for itself.
Speaker 2: I don't know if there are prices or not. I'm
Speaker 2: probably asking more questions than I have a right to,
Speaker 2: but I try to anticipate the questions that that people
Speaker 2: would be it because I know there are people right
Speaker 2: now who are listening. I've never heard of this and
Speaker 2: want to participate. We will give your website at the
Speaker 2: end of the interview. But this is not a benefit
Speaker 2: for you know, homeless dogs or anything like that. This
Speaker 2: is this is an event period, correct.
Speaker 5: It's an it benefits Essex County Trail Association. That's our organization,
Speaker 5: and we protect and maintain hundreds of miles of trails
Speaker 5: in Essex County, just in six towns. So we have
Speaker 5: these events. We have trail runs and other events over
Speaker 5: the course of the year to you know, boost awareness
Speaker 5: of the trails, to engage with our trail users, and
Speaker 5: also to raise money to pay for very expensive trail
Speaker 5: maintenance and trail projects.
Speaker 2: So that's what we do, okay, okay, So there is
Speaker 2: there is a purpose above and beyond just getting out
Speaker 2: and running three point one miles with few other people
Speaker 2: and your dog. So I get that. Okay, that's good.
Speaker 2: So as I understand it, by the way, is the
Speaker 2: prize bragging rights at the end? I see that you
Speaker 2: have top three finishes in different divisions. What if the
Speaker 2: prize is great, If it's just for bragging rights, that's
Speaker 2: okay too.
Speaker 5: We do give up prizes, you know, there are no
Speaker 5: trophies or anything like that. So this gift certificates and
Speaker 5: sometimes it's gear. It's it's candycross gear and so it's both.
Speaker 5: It's it's are there are.
Speaker 2: There a lot of let me, are there a lot
Speaker 2: of people up in Essex County who get their exercise
Speaker 2: and get there. I mean, I see a lot of
Speaker 2: people walking dogs where I live, you know, on a
Speaker 2: Sunday afternoon or Saturday morning, walking their dog. But I
Speaker 2: don't now Again, maybe it's happening and I'm just not
Speaker 2: familiar with the trails. Is this something that you folks
Speaker 2: have developed here or is it something that become more
Speaker 2: common around the state.
Speaker 5: So it's quite popular in northern Europe and it began
Speaker 5: as a way to exercise sled dogs off season. So
Speaker 5: you because you it's it's very similar to that. You know,
Speaker 5: you're your dog is pulling, but the differences you're running.
Speaker 5: But the people who do this a lot use voice
Speaker 5: commands similar to what you would use with sled dog.
Speaker 5: With sled dogs, you you have certain commands to go left,
Speaker 5: to go ride or slow down, our speed up. So
Speaker 5: it's it. But it hasn't really taken off here because
Speaker 5: it is sort of I think people now.
Speaker 2: Spend on night side. Come on, come on, now that
Speaker 2: it's spend on night shide, are you going to be overwhelmed?
Speaker 2: Give me the website. So if anybody by the way,
Speaker 2: the event is on March twenty ninth. Yes, and that
Speaker 2: is a Saturday or Sunday. I got to look at
Speaker 2: my calendar here.
Speaker 5: It's a week from Saturday week for Saturday. It's a
Speaker 5: Pipe Stave Hill in West Newbury Pipe Stave Hill Recreation Area.
Speaker 5: It's on Route one thirteen. We have a dog rescue
Speaker 5: coming with adoptable puppies to do a meet and greet.
Speaker 5: It is definitely something that spectators can at least watch
Speaker 5: the start and finish off because we are on this
Speaker 5: We start on this ball field and it's pretty entertaining.
Speaker 5: We had sixty people last year. We're on track to
Speaker 5: have the same number number this here. All different types
Speaker 5: of dogs, all different types and ages of people, and
Speaker 5: it's really hilarious. The dogs in the beginning all start barking.
Speaker 5: We actually had to get a megaphone for this event
Speaker 5: because people couldn't hear our trail instructions because the dogs
Speaker 5: all start barking and it's.
Speaker 2: We're getting a little tight on time here. So I've
Speaker 2: probably used some of my question too many questions here,
Speaker 2: But Martha, is there a website we can send people to.
Speaker 5: Yes, it's ecta online dot org.
Speaker 2: Ec let me spill. Ea do I do this professionally,
Speaker 2: so help let me help you. Okay, ECTA, you go
Speaker 2: right ahead. It's e C t A and what is
Speaker 2: after that?
Speaker 5: Online? Yeah, line online dot org.
Speaker 2: Perfect, and it's twenty five dollars for ECTA members, thirty
Speaker 2: five for non members. ECTA online dot org. I wish
Speaker 2: you the best of luck. It should be a lot
Speaker 2: of fun for dog owners, and I hope everybody has
Speaker 2: a very safe and healthy run. Tales for the trails.
Speaker 2: This should be a lot of fun. Saturday, March twenty ninth, ECTA.
Speaker 3: On LinkedIn dot org.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. You're very welcome.
Speaker 3: We thank you.
Speaker 2: We'll do it again. Thank you much. Talk to you soon.
Speaker 2: Now we have the news at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 2: Let me remind you we're kind of moving pretty fast tonight.
Speaker 2: My name is Dan Ray and the host of Nightside.
Speaker 2: And of course this is an iHeartRadio station WBZ ten
Speaker 2: thirty and your Am Dial, Boston's news radio station. But
Speaker 2: also you can get the iHeart app for free. Download
Speaker 2: the iHeart app and you could make WBZ your first preset.
Speaker 2: It's like so simple, it's almost the same as in
Speaker 2: your car or in your radio. At home. So we
Speaker 2: are always going to be just a one finger touch
Speaker 2: away from wherever you are in the world. You can
Speaker 2: listen to us three hundred and sixty five days a year, uh,
Speaker 2: twenty four to seven, wherever you are. So it's the
Speaker 2: it's the iHeart app just downloaded. I think most people
Speaker 2: know of what I speak. It's pretty simple. I'll be back.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk with doctor Stanley Fish about lot
Speaker 2: of the movies, and we also have one more segment
Speaker 2: after that talking about tipping. Is tipping getting out of control?
Speaker 2: I kind of think it is. We'll see what my
Speaker 2: guest says. Coming back on night Side right after the
Speaker 2: news at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Nicole, as we move into our
Speaker 2: third guest tonight, which I think is going to be interesting,
Speaker 2: Dr Stanley Fish, Doctor Fish, how are you, sir? Welcome
Speaker 2: to Nightside.
Speaker 6: Well I'm fine, Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: You're very welcome. So you have a new book out.
Speaker 2: You're a professor. You're a law professor at the Florida
Speaker 2: International University.
Speaker 6: Well, uh, I have a war I have a new
Speaker 6: appointment at New College Florida beginning this year. But I
Speaker 6: was a law professor for a long time.
Speaker 2: That's okay. I'm a lawyer here in Boston, so it's
Speaker 2: always nice to meet a law professor. The book that
Speaker 2: you've written is Law at the Movies, turning legal doctrine
Speaker 2: into art and understanding of law cinema and the intricate
Speaker 2: interplay between the two. How did you ever come up
Speaker 2: with this idea? I think it's a great idea.
Speaker 6: Two teaching. Most of my ideas come from teaching, and
Speaker 6: I had the idea one time, about six years ago,
Speaker 6: why not teach a course on the law and the movies,
Speaker 6: in part because I wanted to attract students, and that
Speaker 6: course did, in fact attract students.
Speaker 2: Now I'm looking at the cover. A lot of the
Speaker 2: movies that you that you have are movies that a
Speaker 2: lot of us are familiar with. Twelve Angry Men, High Noon,
Speaker 2: That All Judgment at Nuremberg, Inherit the Wind, the Crucible
Speaker 2: Man for All Seasons, Anatomy of for Murder. You don't
Speaker 2: have Reversal of Fortune on this list. I'm very disappointed
Speaker 2: because I had a role in Reversal of Fortune.
Speaker 6: I didn't know that and Reversal of Fortune was one
Speaker 6: of one of the movies that could have been on
Speaker 6: the list because matters of legal doctrine are very much
Speaker 6: discussed and elaborated in that film.
Speaker 2: As you know, Yes, that was the for those who
Speaker 2: don't remember, it was the Clouds fun Bulau movie in
Speaker 2: which Alan Dershowitz eventually uh did his appeal for him.
Speaker 2: It's a great movie. And and I had a speaking role,
Speaker 2: and I had my I m dB. Uh I'm listed
Speaker 2: in the International Movie Database as a consequence of that.
Speaker 2: So anyway, well tell us I envy you.
Speaker 6: I envy you.
Speaker 2: That Uh no, not not a problem at all. And uh,
Speaker 2: you know there was really it was. It was a
Speaker 2: lot of fun. And well, tell us give us an
Speaker 2: example of a couple of the lessons that people will
Speaker 2: learn from reading the book. Many people will have seen
Speaker 2: the movies, and many of them maybe we'll go back
Speaker 2: and rewatch the movies as well as a result of
Speaker 2: being the book.
Speaker 6: What I'm interested in are movies that don't simply refer
Speaker 6: to legal doctrine along the way, but grow out of
Speaker 6: legal doctrine, so both the plot and the characters depend
Speaker 6: on legal doctrine. One example might be the crucible, where
Speaker 6: the issue is what kind of evidence is authoritative and
Speaker 6: could be the basis of convicting someone, either evidence in
Speaker 6: the usual run of law courts or evidence that comes
Speaker 6: from supposedly spiritual witnessing. So that's one movie that's about evidence.
Speaker 6: That another anatomy of a is I think a movie
Speaker 6: about the craft of law. And what we watch when
Speaker 6: we look at anatomy of a movie our lawyers telling
Speaker 6: us how it is that they first choose to take
Speaker 6: a client and then find a way of defending the client,
Speaker 6: and then present the client's defense in court. So I'm
Speaker 6: not interested in movies that have a law theme, like
Speaker 6: To Kill a mocking Bird, which of course also occurs
Speaker 6: in the courtroom. But that's a movie about race. My
Speaker 6: law movies are about law and the way it works.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds fascinating. Has this book just come out?
Speaker 2: By the way, it looks to.
Speaker 6: Me like a five months ago?
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is a new book that what what's
Speaker 2: what sort of law do you teach in school? You
Speaker 2: a criminal, criminal justice, lawyer or constitution?
Speaker 6: Now I teach constitutional law. I have a juris student's
Speaker 6: Chase book, and I also teach First Amendment law, and
Speaker 6: I teach religion in the law. Those are my main topics.
Speaker 2: Well, those are great subjects. Those subjects will never and
Speaker 2: we deal with a lot of legal issues here on
Speaker 2: Night Side. And when I worked as a television reporter
Speaker 2: for CBS here in Boston, spent many years, about fifteen years,
Speaker 2: trying to get four men out of prison who had
Speaker 2: been wrongfully and intentionally incarcerated by a corrupt member of
Speaker 2: the Federal Winter's Protection Program, actually the first member, the
Speaker 2: first member Federal Witness Protection program, along with some corrupt
Speaker 2: FBI agents. They did quite a job on putting some
Speaker 2: people away who were not angels, but they had never
Speaker 2: committed the crime for which they were tried and died
Speaker 2: and tried and convicted. And it took us. I worked
Speaker 2: with a lawyer who for many years had worked fruitlessly
Speaker 2: on behalf of the I would say, the most innocent
Speaker 2: of all the clients, who had no significant criminal record
Speaker 2: at all, but he had borrowed some money from this
Speaker 2: guy who eventually became the prototype for the Federwids Protection program.
Speaker 2: And my last day on television, they were awarded one
Speaker 2: hundred and one million dollars two of them who were
Speaker 2: still alive, one is still alive, and two who died
Speaker 2: in prison. Basically about a million dollars every year in
Speaker 2: prison any of them spent. So the longer you're in,
Speaker 2: the more money you got. They eventually got everything they
Speaker 2: actually got with interest in all of that during the appeals,
Speaker 2: all the one hundred and sixteen million dollars, And it
Speaker 2: was Elena came last decision as Solicitor General not to
Speaker 2: seek cert and that was about a week or so
Speaker 2: before she was nominated in twenty ten to the US
Speaker 2: Supreme Court by President Obama.
Speaker 6: As a native, as a native of Providence, Rhode Island,
Speaker 6: I can readily believe that there is corruption in Massachusetts.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, he of course think this corruption, this corruption everywhere, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: but the corruption here was amongst FBI agents who had
Speaker 2: badges and guns and used that authority to put innocent
Speaker 2: people in prison. So how long did it take you
Speaker 2: to write this book and how long did you settle
Speaker 2: on the movies? Did you get like a whole big
Speaker 2: list of movies or did you know right from the
Speaker 2: beginning what movies you wanted to highlight?
Speaker 6: A couple of years to write the book, some of
Speaker 6: the movies just in fact present themselves, because you have
Speaker 6: to write about twelve angry men when you're doing a
Speaker 6: book like this, And also Anatomy of a murder, and
Speaker 6: I think also Judgment at Nuremberg, which plays out the
Speaker 6: very old debate between natural law and man made law
Speaker 6: in a way that very very powerful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, having visited Nuremberg, I guess it was about seven
Speaker 2: or eight years ago. It's amazing to look at that
Speaker 2: building where the trials were held. I'm sure that you
Speaker 2: probably had been there and realized what horrific history was
Speaker 2: uh was made that that eventuated in the in the
Speaker 2: trials and the convictions of so many of those German
Speaker 2: German leaders. So the book, I assume you can get
Speaker 2: it through Amazon, uh and uh at bookstores as well.
Speaker 2: It's simply called Law at the Movies, Turning Legal Doctrine
Speaker 2: into Art by Stanley Fish uh And I hope a
Speaker 2: lot of our listeners, we have a lot of lawyers
Speaker 2: who listen that they're gonna they're gonna get a copy
Speaker 2: of this book and get it from Amazon or is
Speaker 2: there a direct can they get it from your web?
Speaker 2: Some some authors have a website where people can order
Speaker 2: it from the website.
Speaker 6: I've never mastered the art of website, so I don't
Speaker 6: have that.
Speaker 2: You should have someone do it for you, because what
Speaker 2: can happen is it can help you because people love
Speaker 2: to get books inscribed by authors, and some authors have
Speaker 2: told me that that actually is interesting because people can
Speaker 2: can order the book and get the author to inscribe it.
Speaker 2: And I think some people feel a little closer to
Speaker 2: the to the book, as they say, if you get
Speaker 2: a chance to watch Reversal of Fortune, you'll see me
Speaker 2: go by in about thirty seconds on the screen. Glenn
Speaker 2: Close was spectacular. Jeremy Irons won the Oscar that year
Speaker 2: for the Leader Male Actor, and we've not been able
Speaker 2: to work. Friends of mine joke with me and they'll say,
Speaker 2: you know, when are you going to do another movie?
Speaker 2: And I said, well, you know, Glenn Close and Jeremy
Speaker 2: Irons and I just keep reading scripts and we can't agree.
Speaker 2: And that's a joke. So you understand. It was a
Speaker 2: It was a very It was it was a look
Speaker 2: break for me to have my one and only appearance
Speaker 2: on the big screen.
Speaker 6: Well I'm waiting. I'm waiting for my big closs up.
Speaker 2: Don't worry it'll happens to all of us, Professor Fish,
Speaker 2: Doctor Fish really enjoyed our conversation, looking forward to reading it,
Speaker 2: and we will. We will talk again.
Speaker 6: I hope it's so Thank you so much. I have
Speaker 6: a new book on film walk that I'm writing now.
Speaker 2: Well, when that comes out, give us a call and
Speaker 2: we'll get you back on.
Speaker 6: Okay, it's a deal.
Speaker 2: Sounds great, okay, Professor doctor Stanley Fish, thank you very much.
Speaker 2: When we get back here on Night Side, we will
Speaker 2: wrap it up. We're going to talk about tipping. I
Speaker 2: think I think a lot of people have opinions on that,
Speaker 2: but the opinion that will count tonight will be the
Speaker 2: opinion of my guest who join us right after this
Speaker 2: quick break, Scott Barradell, Branding and Consuming consumer trends expert,
Speaker 2: about whether or not tipping is getting out of hand
Speaker 2: or out of control. Back on nights Side right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Speaker 1: Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: All right, I think all of us have noticed that
Speaker 2: the way in which people are asked to tip has
Speaker 2: changed a lot in the last few years. With us
Speaker 2: is Scott baradel He's a branding and consumer trends expert
Speaker 2: with the Idea Grove and love to get your take
Speaker 2: on all of this. I guess ninety percent of Americans
Speaker 2: think tipping's a little getting out of hand. As it were,
Speaker 2: good after good evening, Scott.
Speaker 4: How are you good? How are you good?
Speaker 2: Great? Tell us about your your findings.
Speaker 4: Well, this is a survey by a company called wallet
Speaker 4: Hub with those personal finance app and yeah, come at
Speaker 4: night with that night.
Speaker 2: I'm familiar with wallet hub. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well of the people in the survey are not
Speaker 4: happy with how tipping has expanded to where it's basically
Speaker 4: everywhere you go out from from uh you know, the
Speaker 4: coffee chop to self serve kiosks, I mean, take your pick.
Speaker 4: You can't escape it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's I think that. Look when people
Speaker 2: go to a restaurant and there's a waiter, who's a
Speaker 2: waitress coming by and filling your water, taking your order,
Speaker 2: you know, sending something back that might not be done
Speaker 2: to your to your liking and all of that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's there's a service there. But when you simply order
Speaker 2: a cup of coffee and donut, even though the people
Speaker 2: behind the country, you know that they're not being paid
Speaker 2: a lot of money. Every once in a while, I
Speaker 2: shouldn't say every once in a while, probably most of
Speaker 2: the time I do leave a tip, but there's still
Speaker 2: something about it that it's it's very different from what
Speaker 2: you would leave. You're feeling for a waiter or a waitress,
Speaker 2: uh or or someone who gives you a haircut, and
Speaker 2: as someone who just basically, you know, hands you a
Speaker 2: donut and you go down and you pick up your
Speaker 2: coffee at the end of the counter. But the golden
Speaker 2: goose is going to be killed here, I think, if
Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, what's your thought on that.
Speaker 4: Well, I think you're absolutely right. I mean to go
Speaker 4: back to the history of tipping the United States that
Speaker 4: started in the last half of the nineteenth century. It
Speaker 4: used to be something wealthier people did for service workers,
Speaker 4: you know, porters on train cars and so forth. And
Speaker 4: now it's kind of gravitated to where it became mainly
Speaker 4: for wait staff at restaurants and you know, concierge at
Speaker 4: the hotel, people that did your hair. And it used
Speaker 4: to be for you know, a reward for a really
Speaker 4: good service. Now, of course, what it's come become in
Speaker 4: more recent years is kind of obligatory, Like you're a
Speaker 4: jerk if you don't give someone the twenty percent tip,
Speaker 4: even if they didn't give you great service. I mean,
Speaker 4: because we all know that they account for the expected
Speaker 4: tips when they give these waiters and waitresses, for example,
Speaker 4: such wages, and so we all know that and we've
Speaker 4: come to expect Oh well, I guess we just have
Speaker 4: to leave that tip. Well, what happened in twenty eighteen is,
Speaker 4: you know, and some of these gaps came around and
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, you're paying through your through an
Speaker 4: iPad at a lot of places, and they could pre
Speaker 4: set it to put these tip options up there so
Speaker 4: you could without saying a word saying, you know, maybe
Speaker 4: these places that might have had a tip chart that
Speaker 4: might have gotten a few bucks during the day. They're
Speaker 4: sticking this in your face. The person who's who's surfing
Speaker 4: is saying, you know, here's a decision for you to make,
Speaker 4: and it's like, you want to leave a twenty percent tip,
Speaker 4: twenty five or other, and then if you put the other,
Speaker 4: you know, you kind of go to the other screen
Speaker 4: where they're seeing a punch a bunch of buttons and
Speaker 4: they're like oh, jerk, you didn't leave me a tip.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, So let me ask you this, how did
Speaker 2: that come to be? I mean, I've seen it obviously,
Speaker 2: and it's even for example, you go into a you know,
Speaker 2: you're on vacation and you go into a fish market
Speaker 2: and you buy you know, you know, some shrimp and
Speaker 2: you buy this, and you're having a cookout for some people,
Speaker 2: and you could easily spend one hundred bucks, but there's
Speaker 2: really no service. It's like, you know, putting some shrimp
Speaker 2: in a bag, take and the and the tip would
Speaker 2: be you know, ten percent, that's ten bucks. Twenty percent
Speaker 2: is twenty bucks. That's a huge tip for like a
Speaker 2: thirty second interaction.
Speaker 4: No kidding. Well, I'll tell you. I took my two
Speaker 4: boys to get a haircut at one of these you
Speaker 4: know haircut places that are just for kids. And yeah,
Speaker 4: and I the hair the person cuts their hair. Uh,
Speaker 4: does a fine job. You cut two boys hair, right,
Speaker 4: And I go to the counter and she says, here's
Speaker 4: the options. It said twenty five, thirty or fifty percent.
Speaker 4: Those are my choices. So if I didn't want to
Speaker 4: leave at least a twenty five percent tip on these
Speaker 4: two haircuts, I feel like I'm cheap. That's what they're
Speaker 4: wanting to do. But how it all started, you know,
Speaker 4: it really all started with just an easier way to
Speaker 4: pay by credit card. But then it was so easy,
Speaker 4: it was so easy to add this tip option. You know,
Speaker 4: it's a business. So what do you got to lose?
Speaker 4: You know, you're thinking, oh, maybe my you know, I
Speaker 4: can I don't have to pay my people as much
Speaker 4: because they'll be tipped. They'll get some portion of their
Speaker 4: compensation in tips that they didn't get before this all.
Speaker 2: Really even though, yeah, here's a dirty little secret. The
Speaker 2: durty little secret is that waiters and waitresses would much
Speaker 2: prefer pictures of dead presidents. Then they would tip, you know,
Speaker 2: on the end of a credit card bill. And sometimes
Speaker 2: what I'll do is I'll pay with the credit card
Speaker 2: and then tip with cash. And I think that they
Speaker 2: appreciate that more because it's not showing up anywhere. I
Speaker 2: had a situation, oh maybe a month ago, went into
Speaker 2: kind of one of these fancy schmancy ice cream places.
Speaker 2: My wife and I took our grandson in there, and
Speaker 2: like two ice cream cones and they weren't even they
Speaker 2: were small scoops in a dish or something like, you know,
Speaker 2: sixteen fifty. So I went and heard a woman twenty
Speaker 2: and she said, oh, we don't take cash. I've never
Speaker 2: had that home before. We don't take cash. She said,
Speaker 2: what do you mean you don't? She says, don't you
Speaker 2: have a credit card? He say, sure, I got a
Speaker 2: credit card, but i'd liked I was going to give
Speaker 2: her the twenty and just you know, be all said
Speaker 2: with it, she gets a three dollars and fifty cent tip.
Speaker 2: She said, well, why don't you take your credit card
Speaker 2: over there and you can get some cash out of
Speaker 2: our machine. So they hit an ATM there. I said,
Speaker 2: what's the what's the benefit of that, and she said, well,
Speaker 2: it's clean, and she gave me some line which I
Speaker 2: thought was ridiculous. It's clean, it's clean, clean cash whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm telling you the truth, okay, So anyway, you put
Speaker 2: this in your next book. So I took my credit
Speaker 2: card out and paid the sixteen to fifty with the
Speaker 2: credit card, and of course the tip thing was there.
Speaker 2: I put zero. Then I took a couple of bucks
Speaker 2: out of my pocket. I said, now do you accept cash? Oh? Yes, cleaner, dirty, cleaner, dirty, so.
Speaker 4: It really happened here. What really happened here is you know,
Speaker 4: even though this all started in twy eighteen, twenty nineteen,
Speaker 4: it really took off during and through COVID because I
Speaker 4: think we all felt a lot of sympathy and really
Speaker 4: relate to these people. A lot of people lost their jobs,
Speaker 4: restaurants were closing down and so forth, and then you know,
Speaker 4: people are starting to come back. You know, there were
Speaker 4: worries about their health and so forth. So I think
Speaker 4: all during that time and it was hard to staff
Speaker 4: restaurants and places like that. So I think during this time,
Speaker 4: you know, people wanted to be generous to them. But
Speaker 4: it's been a while now and so people are kind
Speaker 4: of like enough enough.
Speaker 2: Well I'll tell you I'm kind of in that category
Speaker 2: as well. Look, I appreciate it very much. Scott. You've
Speaker 2: been a great guest. Let's keep in touch. Love to
Speaker 2: have you on on a more regular basis. You brought
Speaker 2: your a game tonight. Thank you much.
Speaker 4: All right, thank you, take care.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Scott. Scott Barredelle branding and sumer trends expert
Speaker 2: with the idea of growth. Thanks Scott. All right, I
Speaker 2: think he's gone and we will be gone too, and
Speaker 2: we're going to step aside, so we get your newscast
Speaker 2: and we come back and the other side, we're going
Speaker 2: to talk about developments on the white stadium controversy. We'll
Speaker 2: have points of view on both sides, as well as
Speaker 2: a quick interview with a reporter from the Boston Herald
Speaker 2: coming back on nightside.