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<v Speaker 1>Get value you can't argue with at Tesco with their

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<v Speaker 1>Tesco Every Little helps available at most stores. Prices vary

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<v Speaker 1>in express.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh hey, it's your old pod, dad Ward. Just me

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<v Speaker 2>hanging out in a breezy summer tunic and linen coolotts.

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<v Speaker 2>Ali Ward back with another episode of ologies Are you

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<v Speaker 2>ready for? Are you ready for a weird one? Came

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<v Speaker 2>or random one? Kind of a dark one if you're

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<v Speaker 2>all about bank robberies and or calligraphy and or murder?

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<v Speaker 2>She wrote, why the writing's on the bathroom wall. You've

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<v Speaker 2>landed at the correct episode, my friends. But before we

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<v Speaker 2>get deep into it, let's first think some folks patrons

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<v Speaker 2>at Patreon dot com who make the show possible. Thank

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<v Speaker 2>you to everyone buying merch at ologiesmerch dot com. Thank

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<v Speaker 2>you to the folks who subscribe and rate and especially

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<v Speaker 2>review which I read gingerly each week I pluck a

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<v Speaker 2>fresh one, but your reviews keep it up in the charts.

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<v Speaker 2>So thank you to this week Anna Banana, who says

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<v Speaker 2>my first blood meal was acroology, but unlike ticks, I

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<v Speaker 2>needed more, lots and lots more. Never did I think

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<v Speaker 2>I would stay sitting in my car for an extra

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<v Speaker 2>thirty minutes to finish a podcast about hagfish, But here

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<v Speaker 2>I am. Thank you, Dad WORDVN podcast The Pleasure an

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<v Speaker 2>a Banana, It's all mine, Okay. Graphology, let's just roller

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<v Speaker 2>sleeves up, let's sharpen the pencils. Let's get into it.

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<v Speaker 2>So in Greek, graphos means to write, so it's a

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<v Speaker 2>study of writing. Should be simple, right, Yeah, not so much, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So graphology is the study of personality through the analysis

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<v Speaker 2>of handwriting traits. So can you tell if someone is

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<v Speaker 2>like organized or anxious, or ambitious or critical through the

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<v Speaker 2>way they write their fs and t's and ies and such.

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<v Speaker 2>This was a field pioneered by a Frenchman, Gene Hippolyte

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<v Speaker 2>Mashon in the mid eighteen hundreds. And before you say,

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<v Speaker 2>wait a second, analyze a personality via handwriting, isn't that

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<v Speaker 2>flum flam. It's been called pseudoscience, which is why this

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<v Speaker 2>episode doesn't focus much on it. Instead, we're talking all

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<v Speaker 2>about actual forensic handwriting analysis and signature forgeries and wills

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<v Speaker 2>and fraud and court cases. So that field is technically

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<v Speaker 2>called graph analysis, and this guest is an expert in

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<v Speaker 2>that as well as does graphology on the side. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>this episode title is called graphology, and this expert does

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<v Speaker 2>do graphology. But really there's not a lot of graphology

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<v Speaker 2>in this episode. We stick to mostly the scientific penmanship

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<v Speaker 2>analysis and expert witness stories. So I was in Nebraska.

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<v Speaker 2>I was on a tour through the Midwest talking to

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<v Speaker 2>different ologists, and this was a stop in Lincoln, Nebraska.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was Lincoln. It was at our Omaha,

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<v Speaker 2>got Nebraska. I'm so sorry. So I had looked on

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<v Speaker 2>a site for expert legal witnesses in the area and

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<v Speaker 2>I'd come across her name as a graphologist before I

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<v Speaker 2>really understood the distinction. Anyway, we met at a conference

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<v Speaker 2>room in the back of a Kinkos, which I don't

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<v Speaker 2>even think they call Kinkos anymore, but whatever she came in.

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<v Speaker 2>She was smartly dressed with curled blonde hair, carrying a

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<v Speaker 2>folder of paperwork in case we needed visual references. She's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like the aunt that makes family barbecues a

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<v Speaker 2>little more lively and gives you dating advice that you

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<v Speaker 2>remember for years. A real hoot. So she completed a

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<v Speaker 2>four year comprehensive handwriting profiling and forgery detection training program.

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<v Speaker 2>She developed and taught quote red Flags of Forgery classes,

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<v Speaker 2>and she teaches handwriting analysis through the Metropolitan Community College

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<v Speaker 2>in Nebraska. She's so passionate about handwriting. So if you

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<v Speaker 2>like sitting around and gabbing about weird court cases and

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<v Speaker 2>upstrokes and downstrokes, this is your lady. So cross your eyes,

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<v Speaker 2>dot your t's. Let's hear about why your handwriting is unique,

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<v Speaker 2>how to protect your signature, which letters of note and

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<v Speaker 2>ransom notes in history may have been fakes, and how

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<v Speaker 2>you can chill out by writing stuff with graph analyst,

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<v Speaker 2>court witness, forensic handwriting experts and also on the side graphologist.

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<v Speaker 2>But we don't talk about that much. Sylvia Kessler.

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<v Speaker 3>About right there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's great. They're on and they're ready to go.

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<v Speaker 2>And so, now, Sylvia, you are a graphologist. Yes, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>How long have you been a handwriting expert? Oh?

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<v Speaker 3>Since nineteen eighty that's when I opened my business.

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<v Speaker 2>How did you get into it?

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<v Speaker 3>I met a lady that was a retiring chiropractor and

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<v Speaker 3>she it was my teacher, and I was just fascinated.

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<v Speaker 3>I was just fascinated right from the very beginning with it.

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<v Speaker 3>And so she said, well, if you're going to study this,

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<v Speaker 3>you also need to study forensic document examination. And so

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<v Speaker 3>I was with her for four years training. It's quite

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<v Speaker 3>in depth and I absolutely love it today. That's how

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<v Speaker 3>come I still haven't retired.

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<v Speaker 2>You're like, I don't want to give it up. I

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<v Speaker 2>like it too much.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, it's exciting.

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<v Speaker 3>It's exciting, and it's different every day, even though we're

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<v Speaker 3>still talking about handwriting and documents and now technology and

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<v Speaker 3>things like that. It's a very exciting business.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you have impeccable penmanship as a child, Yes, you did.

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<v Speaker 4>I did.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you remember when you'd have to do the cursives?

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<v Speaker 2>Did you always like doing it?

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<v Speaker 3>I learned to write in a one room school house

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<v Speaker 3>in Pennsylvania, Taylortown, Pennsylvania. So we had grades one through

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<v Speaker 3>six and we had to use the quill pen with inkwells.

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<v Speaker 2>So quick side, what is this Palmer method? Well news

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<v Speaker 2>to me. Different styles of penmanship over the eras have

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<v Speaker 2>different names. This hasn't just evolved organically. So back in

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<v Speaker 2>the seventeen hundreds, that gorgeous curly cue script was called

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<v Speaker 2>English Round, and following that was another beautifully ornate, oval

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<v Speaker 2>based Spencerian style script designed by this Victorian pen master Spencer.

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<v Speaker 2>But some folks thought it was too gurly, so they

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<v Speaker 2>created the Palmer method, which was simpler and less beautiful,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was faster. Now. The Palmer method rained in

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<v Speaker 2>schoolhouses from like the eighteen forties to the nineteen fifties.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you wonder why old letters from fifty years

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<v Speaker 2>ago looked like they're all written by the same great aunt,

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<v Speaker 2>well maybe because everyone was all palmered up. But of course,

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<v Speaker 2>the only constant in life is changed and wanting snacks.

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<v Speaker 2>And since the Palmer method, a few different types of

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<v Speaker 2>printing and cursive have been taught in school, so you

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<v Speaker 2>may have learned the zan or blowser method of printing

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<v Speaker 2>or you may have learned nothing at all. And now

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<v Speaker 2>was there something about writing with quill pens that was

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<v Speaker 2>soothing to you?

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<v Speaker 4>Or well, no, that was no, that was just what

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<v Speaker 4>we had.

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<v Speaker 3>We had pencils and quill pens, and the only time

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<v Speaker 3>we got to write with the quill pen.

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<v Speaker 4>Ballpoint pens were.

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<v Speaker 3>Invented in nineteen forty and they were invented to go

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<v Speaker 3>through carbon papers.

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<v Speaker 4>It was wartime and it was.

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<v Speaker 3>They needed those to go through those duplication of papers,

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<v Speaker 3>and so those weren't available.

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<v Speaker 2>So side note, let's take a trip through time to

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<v Speaker 2>just appreciate the pen in your purse, which you probably

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<v Speaker 2>got for free from a car wash or something. So

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<v Speaker 2>four thousand years ago, Egyptians made pens out of hollow

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<v Speaker 2>bamboo reads. And then about fifteen hundred years ago, folks

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<v Speaker 2>are like, I have a great idea. Let's sneak up

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<v Speaker 2>on a live goose or maybe a turkey. Let's rip

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<v Speaker 2>a feather out of its butt and sharpen it with, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>a pen knife, and then use that as a writing instrument.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone loved this idea, except a live birds. And then

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<v Speaker 2>in the early eighteen twenties, steel nibs were the next

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<v Speaker 2>great thing. Literacy rates improved because of this advancement, and

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<v Speaker 2>then only five years later, the fountain pen was patented.

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<v Speaker 2>Who cares, you say, Well, guess what. Having a pen

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<v Speaker 2>on your person as opposed to carrying around a jar

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<v Speaker 2>of ink and a smeary goose feather was huge. All right,

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<v Speaker 2>this was a big deal, But fountain pens still smeared,

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<v Speaker 2>which sucked. So ballpoint pens as we know them, were

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<v Speaker 2>inspired by quick drying newspaper ink. When this newspaper writer

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<v Speaker 2>was damn sick and darn tired of spending time refilling

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<v Speaker 2>his fountain pens and then smearing them all over the page,

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<v Speaker 2>so he invented the ballpoint pen. Now, ballpoint pens involve

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<v Speaker 2>pigments suspended in oil or in some cases now a smooth,

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<v Speaker 2>silky gel in the kind of pens that you borrow

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<v Speaker 2>from an office made and then quietly refused to give back.

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<v Speaker 3>And now it's still chemically manufactured, but it's mostly alcohol

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<v Speaker 3>or gel, And so that comes into play in forensics

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<v Speaker 3>to see what kind of ink was there. And so

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not an expert in ink, but I've studied about

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<v Speaker 3>inc all of the things that have to do with

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<v Speaker 3>handwriting or documents I have studied over the course of

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<v Speaker 3>the years.

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<v Speaker 2>What was it like when you were learning for four years?

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<v Speaker 2>Kind of like it seems almost like an apprenticeship almost

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<v Speaker 2>with them, It wasn't start to shock.

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<v Speaker 3>What more was really funny about it is my teacher said,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't want to take you a student. I had

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<v Speaker 3>to beg her to take me as a student because

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<v Speaker 3>she was just retiring. And I said, I will do

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<v Speaker 3>anything you want me to do. I will pay you

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<v Speaker 3>whatever you want me to pay. I will not argue.

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<v Speaker 3>I will be a good student. So she finally agreed,

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<v Speaker 3>and I would go every other weekend to Kansas City,

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<v Speaker 3>that's where she lived.

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<v Speaker 2>This, my friends, this is passion. So pour yourself a

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<v Speaker 2>cup of tea, stare into the morning missed, and ask yourself,

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<v Speaker 2>what would I drive to Kansas City to learn? And

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<v Speaker 2>at the end of that question may hang the secret

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<v Speaker 2>to a happier life. Anyway, I know, what are some

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<v Speaker 2>things that a handwriting expert learns? Do you learn about

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<v Speaker 2>the idiosyncrasies of each person's handwriting?

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<v Speaker 4>Every person writes differently.

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<v Speaker 3>And there's a Supreme Court ruling on this that goes

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<v Speaker 3>back to I want to say, eighteen forty six something

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<v Speaker 3>like that.

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<v Speaker 4>Hm, the Holland will.

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<v Speaker 2>This was not the Holland will, but the Holland will

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<v Speaker 2>now the wishes of the late Sylvia Ann Holland, whose

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<v Speaker 2>fortune today btw would be equivalent to thirty two million dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>So she left half of that to charities, various entities,

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<v Speaker 2>and the remaining half to her niece, a woman named

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<v Speaker 2>Henrietta Howland Robinson. So upon Sylvia's death, Henrietta produced an

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<v Speaker 2>earlier will that said everything was to go to Henrietta,

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<v Speaker 2>with an attached note that said, nah, any future will

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<v Speaker 2>should just be ignored, which is a weird thing to

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<v Speaker 2>have attached to your will, But anyway, Henrietta produced it

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<v Speaker 2>saying give me everything. So based on the number of

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<v Speaker 2>overlapping downstrokes in the late Sylvia signature, an expert handwriting

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<v Speaker 2>witness concluded that it was statistically near impossible to do

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<v Speaker 2>an identical signature, and so this must be a tracing,

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<v Speaker 2>a forgery.

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<v Speaker 3>And this was a fascinating story. A grandson took his

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<v Speaker 3>grandfather's letters. He kept his grandfather's letters, maybe for sentimental reason,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know about that, But in the long run

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<v Speaker 3>he made out a will, cut and pasted a will,

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<v Speaker 3>and that's called a holographic will when it's handwritten, leaving

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<v Speaker 3>everything to him and ruling out the rest of the family.

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<v Speaker 3>And then he was he got an agreement with a

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<v Speaker 3>printer that had some paper that was age appropriate. They

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<v Speaker 3>printed up this will okay, and they actually he actually

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<v Speaker 3>got everything. However, the way the story goes is the

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<v Speaker 3>printer got greedy and wanted more money, and when the

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<v Speaker 3>grandson wouldn't give it to him, then he an amount.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think they both went to jail, but I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know how it ended, but that was that was

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<v Speaker 3>this ruling that no two people can ever write the same,

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<v Speaker 3>and mathematicians were brought in and somehow they proved this.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like families may have similar writing because sometimes the

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<v Speaker 3>parents will be teaching their children. However it's just no

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<v Speaker 3>two people write alike. If you have enough handwriting, you

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<v Speaker 3>will see the differences.

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<v Speaker 2>How has handwriting changed over the decades.

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<v Speaker 3>How has it changed like in our society?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like because if you look at a document from

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<v Speaker 2>the eighteen hundreds, it's gorgeous. And if you look at

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<v Speaker 2>a note that someone leaves, you know, for the mailman

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<v Speaker 2>it's garbage. So what happened to her beautiful handwriting?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, people quit practicing, they quit learning cursive writing over years.

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<v Speaker 4>One of the things that was a big.

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<v Speaker 3>Influence on why they quit teaching cursive writing was computers.

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<v Speaker 3>I was invented to ruin your handwriting, because everybody types

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<v Speaker 3>now and text now, and there's very that people aren't

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<v Speaker 3>writing as much as they used to. If you get

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<v Speaker 3>a handwritten card in the mail, you treasure it because.

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<v Speaker 4>You get to see it.

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<v Speaker 3>And I have collections of handwriting over all these years,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's just fascinating. Sometimes I'll look at it and go,

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<v Speaker 3>oh wow, I got to keep this. This is really

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<v Speaker 3>important to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Is there someone in the world or in history who's

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<v Speaker 2>handwriting you think is the most beautiful any documents you've

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<v Speaker 2>seen that You're just like Wowser's.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the Declaration of Independence, not only the content of it,

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<v Speaker 3>but the beauty of it. And every now and then

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<v Speaker 3>I will run into someone and that still writes like

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<v Speaker 3>that with all the flourishes, and they practice that for years.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you don't like practicing or mastering stuff, because

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<v Speaker 2>you know, there are things on the internet to look

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<v Speaker 2>at and naps to take I get it. You can

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<v Speaker 2>always use this Declaration of Independence font. It's available via

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<v Speaker 2>p twenty two dot com and it's called what Else

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<v Speaker 2>Declaration And as long as you can print it on

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<v Speaker 2>a thin sheet of aged cow tissue, no one will

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<v Speaker 2>ever know it's fake. Also, the original penman of that

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<v Speaker 2>Declaration of Independence document was Timothy Matlack, who was a

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<v Speaker 2>Quaker and a professional engrosser who lived the ripe old

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<v Speaker 2>age of ninety nine. So if you're scared of dying

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<v Speaker 2>young and are convinced that good handwriting will help, you

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<v Speaker 2>could practice the artful penmanship of calligraphy where you could

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<v Speaker 2>start kiddos young and then have them compete for money.

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<v Speaker 2>There's one competition called the Zaner Blowser National Handwriting Contest,

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<v Speaker 2>and it offers five hundred bucks in prizes for the

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<v Speaker 2>neatest penmanship. And this year a ten year old Sarah

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<v Speaker 2>Hinsley earned the Nicholas Maxim Award in the National Handwriting Contest.

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<v Speaker 2>One detail she was born without hands, she learned to

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<v Speaker 2>hold a pencil and write impeccably anyway, and she told

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<v Speaker 2>reporters she's not sure what she's going to do with

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<v Speaker 2>the cash, but she said quote. I felt proud, and

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<v Speaker 2>I hope others who have challenges learned from me that

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<v Speaker 2>if you try your hardest, you can do it. So

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<v Speaker 2>that thing you want to do but you're afraid you

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<v Speaker 2>can't do, learn from Sarah Hinsley and try hard and

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<v Speaker 2>then just do the thing.

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<v Speaker 4>Nowadays it's a simplified.

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<v Speaker 3>Writing that we do, But computers were the biggest influence

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<v Speaker 3>for the printed word, and printing is just fine, except

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<v Speaker 3>I can evaluate there's very few extensions, but not at

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<v Speaker 3>all printing if it's block printing. Those people are usually

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<v Speaker 3>very constructive, and you get that with engineers architects.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, well naturally write that way.

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<v Speaker 3>Because it feels best to them. So handwriting is a

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<v Speaker 3>kinesthetic activity. So when you're learning these exercises, they were

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00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:18.799
<v Speaker 3>taught with number two lead pencils and you feel that motion.

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<v Speaker 3>And I've actually gone to a hospital before where someone

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<v Speaker 3>had had a head trauma and their motor skills were involved,

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00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:33.279
<v Speaker 3>and I've done the circular motions helped build back coordination.

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<v Speaker 2>Has anyone ever come to you just maybe not trauma related,

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<v Speaker 2>but just said, listen, Sylvia, my handwriting sucks. What can

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<v Speaker 2>you do to help me? I'm an adult, can you

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<v Speaker 2>help me with my handwriting? It's not good.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, what's interesting is most people will tell me my

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<v Speaker 3>handwriting is terrible, or I have two different kinds of handwriting,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's not. It's seldom. I've only seen one or

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<v Speaker 3>two people in my whole career that had two separate

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<v Speaker 3>different handwritings.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's address the elegant elephant in the room graphology proper. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>this again not considered heart science. So graphology hangs out

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00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:17.839
<v Speaker 2>kind of in the same lunch table as astrology or

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00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:23.359
<v Speaker 2>numerology or chirology, which is a technical term for palm reading,

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<v Speaker 2>no joke. Should I do an episode on that? Maybe

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00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:30.160
<v Speaker 2>I will. Anyway, this show is ologies, and Sylvia is

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<v Speaker 2>a legit forensic handwriting witness by day and a graphologist

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<v Speaker 2>on the side. So let's just ask her opinion on

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00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:42.039
<v Speaker 2>that ology. What do you think handwriting says about a

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<v Speaker 2>person's personality?

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<v Speaker 3>A lot?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>How so?

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<v Speaker 3>Now, and there's let me qualify this. Not everybody that

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00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.200
<v Speaker 3>says they're a handwriting expert is a handwriting expert.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>So they'll read a book and say, oh, I can

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00:18:57.279 --> 00:18:59.680
<v Speaker 3>go make twenty bucks on this or something at them

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<v Speaker 3>all or at the carnival or whatever. In fact, when

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<v Speaker 3>I've been on I'm an expert witness about documents and

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00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:10.799
<v Speaker 3>signatures on documents, and I have to prove that to

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00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:15.759
<v Speaker 3>the benefit of the judge or jury. And so I've

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<v Speaker 3>been asked when I was getting qualified in the beginning, well,

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<v Speaker 3>is this like what they do over at the carnival

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<v Speaker 3>or at.

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<v Speaker 4>The state Fair.

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<v Speaker 3>No, it isn't, It isn't. Yeah, I said, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know what they do with the state Fair because I've

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00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:36.839
<v Speaker 3>never been hired to go over there anyway. So to

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<v Speaker 3>get back to your question, cursive writing is now coming back,

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<v Speaker 3>and penmanship is now coming back into the school systems

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<v Speaker 3>in some states. The last I heard, there were like

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<v Speaker 3>twelve or thirteen states that have put that back into

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<v Speaker 3>their educational system because it does build discipline, It builds

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00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:02.480
<v Speaker 3>self determination, builds all the characters that you can find.

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<v Speaker 4>Now, when I get.

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<v Speaker 3>A court case, my reputation in that area, feel that arena.

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<v Speaker 4>That is a really heavy duty.

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<v Speaker 2>And now tell me a little bit about the forensic

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00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:18.759
<v Speaker 2>side of it. What kind of cases do you get

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<v Speaker 2>called in for?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, you know what, I get unfortunate. There's a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of probate cases, which means when somebody dies, there's wills

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<v Speaker 3>that are question, there's wills that show up that counter

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00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:38.839
<v Speaker 3>other wills. There's forged deeds of trust. There's a lot,

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<v Speaker 3>and it splits families. I bet I will say to them,

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<v Speaker 3>let's sit down at the table and discuss this. I'll

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<v Speaker 3>tell the attorney get the other attorney, because this is

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00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:52.200
<v Speaker 3>going to cause a divide in this family that will

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<v Speaker 3>never be healed unless we do it now. Some attorneys

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00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:57.920
<v Speaker 3>will look at me like I'm a bleeding heart. Others

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<v Speaker 3>will say, you know, that's a good idea. Maybe we

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00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:02.319
<v Speaker 3>can get it settled. So when I come back with

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00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:06.880
<v Speaker 3>the true answers, they will usually come to some kind

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<v Speaker 3>of agreement. And they don't always forgive one another unfortunately.

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<v Speaker 4>But sorry, I didn't mean to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Does one person say well, I have a will and

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<v Speaker 2>it's the latest will, and as someone else says, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I have a will from nineteen seventy five, but he

359
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:26.039
<v Speaker 2>was in maybe a better state of mind here, or

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<v Speaker 2>you don't you have.

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<v Speaker 4>Medical records to back that up.

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<v Speaker 3>It's called capacity, okay, if the person had capacity at

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<v Speaker 3>the time they were signed in it, and if they

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<v Speaker 3>do not have capacity whoever's there with them at the

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00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:43.000
<v Speaker 3>moment can influence them quite easily.

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<v Speaker 2>So what else does Sylvia's job entail.

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<v Speaker 4>That's just one part of it.

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<v Speaker 3>I work with stocks or to right now, I have

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<v Speaker 3>six cases, once with a fortune five hundred company on

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<v Speaker 3>fraudulent invoices. One of them is with a artists that

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00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:05.839
<v Speaker 3>agreements were broken and he thinks that they've forged his

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<v Speaker 3>name on something. It's just really interesting the different cases

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00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:15.160
<v Speaker 3>will's contracts. I've done athletic contracts that were forged.

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<v Speaker 4>Really yes, And.

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<v Speaker 2>How do you see when something is forged? Where do

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<v Speaker 2>you even start?

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00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:24.640
<v Speaker 3>Well, you start by getting known signatures of the person

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00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:28.799
<v Speaker 3>that signature is supposed to be, and then you do

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<v Speaker 3>the habitual patterns. There's people cannot help, but they have patterns.

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<v Speaker 4>You write your name more than.

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<v Speaker 3>Anything else that's true in your whole life, and so

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00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:45.640
<v Speaker 3>there will be patterns, habitual characteristics in your signature that

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00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:50.200
<v Speaker 3>you don't even see. You don't see it because it's unconscious.

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<v Speaker 3>And so that's the first thing.

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<v Speaker 2>She recalled. Another case that went down in Carlsbad, New Mexico.

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<v Speaker 3>I had the man's writing from for over six years.

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00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:05.039
<v Speaker 3>He was in his eighties. I had handwriting over sixty years. This,

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00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:09.599
<v Speaker 3>even though the writing changed as he got older, you

389
00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:12.759
<v Speaker 3>could see how he came out of being a young

390
00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:18.079
<v Speaker 3>man and got more serious and more efficient in what

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00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:21.440
<v Speaker 3>he was doing and came into his own and then

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00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:25.160
<v Speaker 3>you could see where his health started to decline over

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00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:26.160
<v Speaker 3>those sixty years.

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<v Speaker 4>But the same habitual patterns were.

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<v Speaker 2>There, and so was it a forgery?

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00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:34.599
<v Speaker 3>And so in that case it was a forgery. Yes,

397
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:37.720
<v Speaker 3>what's it like when the well they settled. I'm there

398
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:41.599
<v Speaker 3>in the courtroom after this long journey and they settled. Oh,

399
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:46.240
<v Speaker 3>when the opposing attorney looked at the report and looked

400
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:50.839
<v Speaker 3>at my illustrations. Next thing you know, they're back talking

401
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:56.200
<v Speaker 3>to the judge and it was all settled. Oh my gosh.

402
00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:00.720
<v Speaker 2>And now what other kinds of things come up when

403
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.759
<v Speaker 2>you're doing forensic handering analysis? Like is there the type

404
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:06.039
<v Speaker 2>of paper is there? The type of ink is it?

405
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:08.640
<v Speaker 4>The hard these are all things, but they're there.

406
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:16.279
<v Speaker 3>Now. Our technology is about electronically lifted signatures, ye that

407
00:24:16.359 --> 00:24:22.359
<v Speaker 3>have been manufactured from other documents. And it's amazing how

408
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:24.119
<v Speaker 3>much of our signatures are out there.

409
00:24:24.279 --> 00:24:25.200
<v Speaker 4>I bet yeah.

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00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:28.759
<v Speaker 2>And now when it comes to electronic documents. How do

411
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:31.240
<v Speaker 2>you feel about things like docu sign where it's just

412
00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:32.599
<v Speaker 2>essentially you sign a PDF.

413
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:36.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I know, I'm worried about We just bought a house. Yeah,

414
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:41.079
<v Speaker 3>we just bought a house, and yeah we got some

415
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:45.319
<v Speaker 3>final paperwork in the mail. Yeah, but it doesn't have

416
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:47.279
<v Speaker 3>any of our original signatures on it.

417
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:50.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's all electronic. That seems I just had to

418
00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:52.400
<v Speaker 2>do a bunch of docu sign things too, and I'm like,

419
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:54.359
<v Speaker 2>this isn't even my handwriting, and all I'm doing is

420
00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:56.599
<v Speaker 2>clicking a button. But that's how is that legit?

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00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:00.519
<v Speaker 3>They can check your where it's coming from, your IP

422
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:03.200
<v Speaker 3>Pewter and stuff like that, your IP address.

423
00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:05.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, and now what about signing the back

424
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:07.480
<v Speaker 2>of your credit cards? Should you do that or should

425
00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:07.680
<v Speaker 2>you not?

426
00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:10.759
<v Speaker 3>Well, if you don't, it's not going to be accepted.

427
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:13.000
<v Speaker 3>But what I do is I say, ask for ID.

428
00:25:13.240 --> 00:25:15.839
<v Speaker 2>Okay. See that's a good tip from someone who is

429
00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:18.640
<v Speaker 2>a professional forensic graphologist.

430
00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:21.880
<v Speaker 3>And if they if we're in a restaurant and the

431
00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:27.359
<v Speaker 3>person the waiter, waitress, whoever, takes our credit card and

432
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:29.640
<v Speaker 3>comes back and they don't ask for it, I said,

433
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:31.160
<v Speaker 3>turn over that card and look at it.

434
00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:34.799
<v Speaker 2>And even see some id And have there been any

435
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:39.599
<v Speaker 2>huge forgery cases in history that have really captured your attention?

436
00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:43.359
<v Speaker 4>No? No, well I'll tell you why.

437
00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:46.119
<v Speaker 3>I've studied some of those and I can't even remember

438
00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:48.720
<v Speaker 3>their names, you know. I think probably one of the

439
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:52.960
<v Speaker 3>most famous one is the Howard Hughes diaries. They were

440
00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:54.200
<v Speaker 3>all forged.

441
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh side note, if you're like, what okay, Howard Hughes, businessman,

442
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:04.759
<v Speaker 2>film director, pilot, wealthy person, became a recluse and in

443
00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:08.720
<v Speaker 2>the nineteen seventies a few scoundrels devised a scheme to

444
00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:13.240
<v Speaker 2>have artists mimic his handwriting and they got this lucrative

445
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:18.039
<v Speaker 2>book deal so many dollars based on this autobiography which

446
00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:21.160
<v Speaker 2>was totally fake, and they were found out and the

447
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:25.039
<v Speaker 2>main perp, a guy called Clifford Irving, went to prison

448
00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:27.119
<v Speaker 2>for like a year and a half. But during that

449
00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:30.240
<v Speaker 2>time he gave up smoking and he took up weightlifting,

450
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:32.119
<v Speaker 2>so maybe it was like a bit of a glow

451
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:34.359
<v Speaker 2>up for him. Then he wrote a book about it,

452
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:38.079
<v Speaker 2>and he made gobs of money. He was married six times.

453
00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:41.160
<v Speaker 2>They made a movie called The Hoax starring Richard gear

454
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.680
<v Speaker 2>So yay, crime does pay, and after this whole scandal

455
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:49.160
<v Speaker 2>in the nineteen seventies. Hughes died just a few years later,

456
00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:53.559
<v Speaker 2>likely still very annoyed. Now, any other cases that Sylvia's

457
00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:54.440
<v Speaker 2>been really taken by.

458
00:26:54.799 --> 00:26:59.440
<v Speaker 3>I'll tell you something though, that this fascinated me. I

459
00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:02.359
<v Speaker 3>saw some I'm a Marilyn Monroe's handwriting in one of

460
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:06.680
<v Speaker 3>Oprah's magazine years ago. And then I saw a letter

461
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:11.200
<v Speaker 3>that was sold at Southby's for some big amount that

462
00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:16.319
<v Speaker 3>was not the same handwriting now, and I go, WHOA,

463
00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:18.839
<v Speaker 3>I should really take the time to look into that.

464
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:23.880
<v Speaker 3>But nobody's asked me about that, or but I noticed

465
00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:25.119
<v Speaker 3>it when I saw it.

466
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:30.559
<v Speaker 2>So little googling turned up two different sad letters supposedly

467
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:34.799
<v Speaker 2>in Marilyn's handwriting, one to her acting teacher Lee Strasberg

468
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:38.839
<v Speaker 2>on Hotel bel Air stationery, which was written in loopy

469
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:43.119
<v Speaker 2>cursive kind of slinted forward as if leaning into a wind.

470
00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:46.480
<v Speaker 2>It read, my will is weak, but I can't stand anything.

471
00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:49.119
<v Speaker 2>I sound crazy, but I think I am going crazy.

472
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:51.319
<v Speaker 2>It's just that I get before a camera and my

473
00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:55.079
<v Speaker 2>concentration and everything I'm trying to learn leaves me and

474
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:58.119
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I'm not existing in the human race

475
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:01.680
<v Speaker 2>at all, so this cursive looks nothing like another one

476
00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:05.039
<v Speaker 2>written to her psychiatrist, which was in print, saying, I

477
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:08.720
<v Speaker 2>guess I've always been deeply terrified to really be someone's wife,

478
00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:11.920
<v Speaker 2>since I know from life that one cannot love another really.

479
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Sylvia says she'd love to sit down and compare them now.

480
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:19.279
<v Speaker 2>She didn't leave a note before her overdose of barbituates

481
00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:22.400
<v Speaker 2>at thirty six, and it was ruled a probable suicide

482
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:25.839
<v Speaker 2>by corners. Sylvia notes that a slim percentage less than

483
00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:29.200
<v Speaker 2>thirty percent by my research, do leave notes in such

484
00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:32.519
<v Speaker 2>a tragic occurrence, And as your pod dad, just a

485
00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:35.759
<v Speaker 2>reminder that folks are here to listen, and the National

486
00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Suicide Hotline is there twenty four hours a day one

487
00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:41.799
<v Speaker 2>eight hundred two seven three eight two, five y five.

488
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:44.960
<v Speaker 2>I'll add it in the show notes now. Another famed

489
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:47.759
<v Speaker 2>note left by Nirvana singer Kirk Cobaine has been the

490
00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:52.519
<v Speaker 2>subject of widespread conspiracy theories. The last few lines raised

491
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:55.759
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of eyebrows for decades, but Dateline at one

492
00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:59.200
<v Speaker 2>point passed it off to four handwriting experts who concluded

493
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:02.359
<v Speaker 2>that it was either in Kurt's own penmanship or it

494
00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:04.160
<v Speaker 2>was inconclusive.

495
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.880
<v Speaker 3>I've had several cases that I knew or murder, we

496
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:10.480
<v Speaker 3>just couldn't get it. We couldn't get the attorneys to

497
00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:14.640
<v Speaker 3>move forward with that, or we couldn't get it investigated properly.

498
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Mm hm oh my gosh.

499
00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:18.880
<v Speaker 3>And it's heartbreaking. It really is heartbreaking.

500
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:22.319
<v Speaker 2>And it's interesting that something like handwriting can come in

501
00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:24.920
<v Speaker 2>to speak for the person who's gone, you know.

502
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:32.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh, absolutely absolutely, And so I consider that part of

503
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:35.799
<v Speaker 3>what I do is I have to take a stand

504
00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:38.799
<v Speaker 3>for the handwriting. The truth is always in the handwriting

505
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:42.480
<v Speaker 3>in the papers. So you get enough of those papers

506
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:46.000
<v Speaker 3>and enough of the handwriting, and you can figure it out.

507
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:48.200
<v Speaker 3>Anonymous writing hate mail.

508
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:52.200
<v Speaker 2>If we're texting and typing more than we're writing, are.

509
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:55.480
<v Speaker 3>We leaving behind evidence of your language patterns?

510
00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:58.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes, you are, Oh really so. Our language patterns are

511
00:29:58.160 --> 00:29:58.720
<v Speaker 2>something that means.

512
00:29:58.759 --> 00:30:01.759
<v Speaker 3>Language patterns are something that I have looked at before.

513
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:08.039
<v Speaker 3>Another case I had it was about the known handwriting

514
00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:11.359
<v Speaker 3>had never been more than maybe six or seven lines

515
00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:15.839
<v Speaker 3>of a paragraph on a page, and then here's this big,

516
00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:20.119
<v Speaker 3>long letter. It's indented, it's typed, but it's indented, and

517
00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:24.559
<v Speaker 3>the language patterns are completely different than what the person

518
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:27.759
<v Speaker 3>used and that was on a harassment suit that got

519
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:28.880
<v Speaker 3>solved real quickly.

520
00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:32.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, Well, here's a fun little confidence booster to

521
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:36.440
<v Speaker 2>remind you about intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation.

522
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:40.759
<v Speaker 3>You get your image out of work, You get your

523
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:45.759
<v Speaker 3>image out of production, whether it's work in school or work.

524
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:51.319
<v Speaker 3>It's not about the pay. It's about the accomplishment. That's

525
00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:55.839
<v Speaker 3>where people get their confidence. It's not something that just

526
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:59.640
<v Speaker 3>comes down of the sky and blesses you. You get

527
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:03.799
<v Speaker 3>it from You become confident by doing things and that

528
00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:07.599
<v Speaker 3>builds the confidence. So sometimes people will say to me, well,

529
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:10.240
<v Speaker 3>I want to have more confidence, And I said, so,

530
00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:12.279
<v Speaker 3>what kind of person would it make you if you

531
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:17.319
<v Speaker 3>had a lot of confidence and you didn't listen to feedback, right,

532
00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:20.440
<v Speaker 3>which we have a lot of those today, don't we?

533
00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we do. And now what do you think about

534
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:26.680
<v Speaker 2>the daily habit of journaling or doing morning pages, of

535
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.359
<v Speaker 2>just connecting pender pencil to paper. What do you think

536
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:29.680
<v Speaker 2>that does?

537
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:32.359
<v Speaker 3>I think it's a wonderful one. It's wonderful. Not only

538
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:35.680
<v Speaker 3>is therapy, it's wonderful to focus. It's wonderful to have

539
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:40.039
<v Speaker 3>that time for yourself to really get your thoughts down

540
00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:42.519
<v Speaker 3>on paper, and when you go back and read that

541
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:45.559
<v Speaker 3>years later, you go, oh, my goodness, that is so

542
00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:48.720
<v Speaker 3>interesting because you can see it in your you know,

543
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:53.240
<v Speaker 3>I can see it in my handwriting over the years.

544
00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:54.319
<v Speaker 3>How it's changed.

545
00:31:54.759 --> 00:31:58.759
<v Speaker 2>Any movies about forgeries or handwriting that you like movies?

546
00:31:58.839 --> 00:31:59.319
<v Speaker 4>I don't know.

547
00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:05.440
<v Speaker 3>You know, there's been a lot of movies where CSI

548
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:08.319
<v Speaker 3>you can peep. You know. The thing about going to

549
00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:12.400
<v Speaker 3>trial now is a jury expects all of it to

550
00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:16.880
<v Speaker 3>be like CSI Declaration of Independence, and it's not always

551
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:19.359
<v Speaker 3>like CSI. Sometimes they'll say things and I'll go, that

552
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:20.599
<v Speaker 3>is not true.

553
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:23.319
<v Speaker 4>How can you say that? Who wrote the script?

554
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:27.720
<v Speaker 3>You know? And I've had several people that are writing

555
00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:33.160
<v Speaker 3>books that have contacted me with different handwriting questions, and

556
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:38.680
<v Speaker 3>I've given them information about what they could do, or

557
00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:41.039
<v Speaker 3>where they should look, or that sort of thing.

558
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:41.480
<v Speaker 4>You know.

559
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:45.119
<v Speaker 3>One time I had a case and the attorney told

560
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:47.079
<v Speaker 3>me he couldn't get any handwriter. I said, well, then

561
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:50.039
<v Speaker 3>we're you're going to lose his case. And I said,

562
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:52.279
<v Speaker 3>I can tell you from what I have this man

563
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:55.240
<v Speaker 3>has been a real scrapper. This is a small town.

564
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:57.400
<v Speaker 3>Go down to the police station and ask him if

565
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:01.599
<v Speaker 3>he's ever been arrested. That's public information. You're an attorney,

566
00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:04.319
<v Speaker 3>Get out of your office and go down there and

567
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:08.960
<v Speaker 3>get me some handwriting. Well, sure enough, Yeah, he had

568
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:12.359
<v Speaker 3>been arrested three times for assault in bars.

569
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:13.799
<v Speaker 4>And here it is.

570
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:17.160
<v Speaker 3>Just exactly what I needed to prove that that was

571
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:20.240
<v Speaker 3>his signature. It was really an interesting case. What was

572
00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:24.160
<v Speaker 3>he guilty of? Conspiracy to defraud a bank? Wow?

573
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:25.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

574
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:26.359
<v Speaker 4>Single.

575
00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:28.960
<v Speaker 2>And now I have questions from listeners. Can I ask

576
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:34.960
<v Speaker 2>him from our susteners? Yeah they know I got listeners. Yeah, okay, patrons.

577
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:38.240
<v Speaker 2>Before we get to your numerous excellent questions, a few

578
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:41.160
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579
00:33:41.160 --> 00:33:43.759
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580
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:47.200
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581
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:50.640
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582
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:55.200
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583
00:33:55.240 --> 00:33:58.599
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584
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Letters of Hope started in twenty sixteen when care package

585
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:05.400
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586
00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:08.880
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587
00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:12.039
<v Speaker 2>and that outreach has inspired thousands of people around the

588
00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:14.679
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589
00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:17.480
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590
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:21.000
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591
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:24.639
<v Speaker 2>So a donation was made to them. Okay, these sponsors

592
00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:26.079
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593
00:34:26.440 --> 00:34:28.840
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594
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:31.679
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595
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598
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599
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600
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601
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602
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<v Speaker 2>Okay your questions. There were one hundred and ninety three questions,

603
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:04.360
<v Speaker 2>so I'm not going to ask you all of them. No,

604
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:07.480
<v Speaker 2>we'll run through. We'll just rapid fire. Sure, we'll get

605
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.519
<v Speaker 2>as many lightning round as we can This next question

606
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:14.440
<v Speaker 2>was also asked by Ariel Emmab and Ira Gray. Liza

607
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:19.119
<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth wants to know how accurate is forensic handwriting analysis

608
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:21.079
<v Speaker 2>and is it a reliable source of evidence?

609
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:24.559
<v Speaker 3>It is if you have someone that's well trained them

610
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:27.239
<v Speaker 3>well qualified. Okay, you have to prove your case. You

611
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:31.000
<v Speaker 3>can just write a report. You know that happens a

612
00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:32.920
<v Speaker 3>lot where they write a report. It's my opinion.

613
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:35.719
<v Speaker 4>Well that and what two bucks?

614
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:39.039
<v Speaker 2>We can go get a cup coffee. Jessica Bailey wants

615
00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:40.639
<v Speaker 2>to know is it true that people will slap your

616
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:44.039
<v Speaker 2>handwriting tend to have a higher IQ not necessarily. Okay,

617
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:46.760
<v Speaker 2>so there you have it. This has been a known

618
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:50.039
<v Speaker 2>fact for decades, and one nineteen eighty four study published

619
00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:53.719
<v Speaker 2>in Human Learning, the Journal of Practical Research and Applications

620
00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:57.199
<v Speaker 2>states it is concluded that the lack of a significant

621
00:35:57.239 --> 00:36:03.039
<v Speaker 2>correlation between handwriting legibility and IQSC clearly disconfirms the popular

622
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:09.000
<v Speaker 2>stereotype of illegible writers as unintelligent. Boom So Lacy Gilbert,

623
00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:13.320
<v Speaker 2>Lisa Burbridge, Katie Spino, Danielle Rivera, and Deli Dames who

624
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:17.480
<v Speaker 2>also asked about that, and maybe have terrible penmanship but

625
00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:21.320
<v Speaker 2>sharp minds. Breathe easy letter slobs. You're all good now.

626
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:24.559
<v Speaker 2>The following folks all had a similar question to Jenny

627
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Bergstrums Caitlin Carter, Jessica Beard, Raykasha, Madeline Rogers, Irony and Rosaria,

628
00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:34.920
<v Speaker 2>and Nera. Jenny Bergstrom asks, does handwriting change over time

629
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:38.039
<v Speaker 2>because your personality or interests or maturity changes.

630
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:42.039
<v Speaker 3>All of it changes, physical, emotional, spiritual, all of it changes.

631
00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:44.639
<v Speaker 2>What about when people dot their eyes with hearts? What

632
00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:45.320
<v Speaker 2>do you think about that?

633
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:49.519
<v Speaker 3>There's something about them they want that's called an idiosyncrasy,

634
00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:52.559
<v Speaker 3>and that means there's something about them that's really different,

635
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:56.920
<v Speaker 3>and they're kind of into the love, you know, sweetness

636
00:36:56.920 --> 00:36:58.920
<v Speaker 3>and love and all of that. You know, I'm a

637
00:36:59.000 --> 00:36:59.840
<v Speaker 3>romantic like that.

638
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:04.079
<v Speaker 2>Michelle Grondline Michelle Grondine wants to know what's the most

639
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:05.960
<v Speaker 2>commonly forged piece of writing.

640
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:10.000
<v Speaker 4>Oh, I would have.

641
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:15.639
<v Speaker 3>To say, let's see, most commonly forged piece of writing.

642
00:37:18.599 --> 00:37:22.039
<v Speaker 3>That's a very good question. I would say probably will's

643
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:27.599
<v Speaker 3>So the most common OH, checks would probably be Yeah.

644
00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:30.199
<v Speaker 2>One, is it better to write a check in sharpie

645
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:31.480
<v Speaker 2>so that no one you.

646
00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:34.719
<v Speaker 3>Can actually buy pins now that they cannot bleach out

647
00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:37.960
<v Speaker 3>the writing. One of the you know, I want to

648
00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:41.679
<v Speaker 3>encourage everybody to get a locked mailbox or make sure

649
00:37:41.800 --> 00:37:46.679
<v Speaker 3>that their mail is secure, because one of the common

650
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:51.920
<v Speaker 3>easy accesses is to go along a line of mailboxes

651
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:55.920
<v Speaker 3>that are just regular mailboxes. Palm down goes through the mail.

652
00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:58.519
<v Speaker 3>If there's checks going out, they take those. If there's

653
00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:03.079
<v Speaker 3>birthday cards or cards look like they're cards of some

654
00:38:03.159 --> 00:38:05.199
<v Speaker 3>kind that might have money in them, they take those,

655
00:38:05.239 --> 00:38:10.480
<v Speaker 3>open them up, take the checks, bleach them, and honestly

656
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:12.400
<v Speaker 3>they will still pass those checks.

657
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:16.440
<v Speaker 2>For more on how bleach does that? Just hit that

658
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:20.920
<v Speaker 2>old disinfectiology episode from a few weeks ago. Bleach not

659
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:24.760
<v Speaker 2>just for toilets and pools, It's also great for mail fraud.

660
00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Just kidding, don't do that.

661
00:38:26.599 --> 00:38:30.119
<v Speaker 3>So so get a locked mailbox, get a locked mailbox,

662
00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:33.679
<v Speaker 3>and get up a You can get the pins at

663
00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:35.480
<v Speaker 3>any of the stationary stores.

664
00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:37.119
<v Speaker 4>That's for forgery.

665
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:39.760
<v Speaker 3>I've actually had people call me up and asked me

666
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:43.360
<v Speaker 3>if I could come and forge a document that they

667
00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:45.239
<v Speaker 3>needed somebody's name on a document.

668
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:46.760
<v Speaker 4>Could I come right away?

669
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:47.599
<v Speaker 1>What you say?

670
00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:49.679
<v Speaker 3>I said, sure, where do you want me to come?

671
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:51.719
<v Speaker 3>I got the address and then I called the police

672
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:53.280
<v Speaker 3>and told them that.

673
00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:54.360
<v Speaker 4>They were expecting me.

674
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:59.119
<v Speaker 2>Nice, You're like wrong person to can.

675
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:00.400
<v Speaker 3>With us.

676
00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:03.320
<v Speaker 4>Oh wow, this is interesting. What kind of document is that?

677
00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:03.960
<v Speaker 3>I told him?

678
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:07.840
<v Speaker 4>You know, the scam scam scam busting crimes.

679
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:12.760
<v Speaker 2>Speaking of crimes, Stephanie Brokeyes and Derek Allen also had

680
00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:15.760
<v Speaker 2>a similar question to Sophie's coming up. Sophie Beer wants

681
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:17.320
<v Speaker 2>to know what's your favorite crime that was solved with

682
00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:18.559
<v Speaker 2>the help of handwriting experts?

683
00:39:18.679 --> 00:39:19.400
<v Speaker 4>What is the one?

684
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:22.639
<v Speaker 2>What was your favorite crime that's been solved by the

685
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:25.039
<v Speaker 2>help of handwriting experts? Anything historical?

686
00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:31.400
<v Speaker 4>Historically? I think probably the Hughes Diaries.

687
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, uh is one son your car pedic? Cool? Question?

688
00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:38.599
<v Speaker 2>Is handwriting gender related at all? Even though you know

689
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:43.159
<v Speaker 2>gender's fluid and gender schmender? But why do boys typically

690
00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:46.079
<v Speaker 2>tend to have less neat handwriting than girls?

691
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:51.800
<v Speaker 3>That's that is a broad generalization, because I have in

692
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:56.960
<v Speaker 3>my files handwriting of men that has all the flourishes,

693
00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:00.760
<v Speaker 3>even more flourishes, and you have more Claire than you have.

694
00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:01.280
<v Speaker 4>Wow.

695
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:04.960
<v Speaker 2>Sylvia had taken a peek at my little binder earlier

696
00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:08.920
<v Speaker 2>and decided, based on my flair that I am inquisitive

697
00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:13.280
<v Speaker 2>with perfectionist tendencies, but that I am not moody, and

698
00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:15.639
<v Speaker 2>I did not have the heart or the bass to

699
00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:17.840
<v Speaker 2>tell her that I am moody as hell. And I

700
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:20.800
<v Speaker 2>can get bummed out for hours just after seeing a

701
00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:21.440
<v Speaker 2>dead bee.

702
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:27.079
<v Speaker 3>And in your writing, and so there's three things that

703
00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:30.360
<v Speaker 3>you cannot tell from handwriting. Everything else is open. So

704
00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:33.159
<v Speaker 3>the three things are whether it's a male or female,

705
00:40:33.400 --> 00:40:36.360
<v Speaker 3>whether it's right or left handed, or how old they are.

706
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:41.320
<v Speaker 3>You cannot tell exact age those three things. Everything else,

707
00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:44.079
<v Speaker 3>if you have enough handwriting and you're trained well enough,

708
00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:48.960
<v Speaker 3>you can figure out a complete profile on the person.

709
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:53.679
<v Speaker 3>Even though lefties do a little smearing, they know wow. No,

710
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:58.280
<v Speaker 3>that is a misconception that's across the board. Another misconception

711
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:00.519
<v Speaker 3>is like if you're going to if you're going to

712
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:03.440
<v Speaker 3>forge something, you better make it different. Because you cannot

713
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:06.760
<v Speaker 3>write your name the same way twice in your entire lifetime.

714
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:09.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh, so you can have similar patterns.

715
00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:13.239
<v Speaker 3>There's habitual patterns of variation. And so this is why

716
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:15.559
<v Speaker 3>it takes so long to study this. This is not

717
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:18.719
<v Speaker 3>just something that you pick up a book and read it,

718
00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:20.639
<v Speaker 3>and yeah, you can get.

719
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:22.800
<v Speaker 4>Gather a lot of information that way.

720
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:26.679
<v Speaker 2>Tyler Ke wants to know when was the first case

721
00:41:26.679 --> 00:41:29.960
<v Speaker 2>of a ransom letter being written with newspaper clippings, And

722
00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:32.519
<v Speaker 2>is that to fool people so that they can't be traced.

723
00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:35.159
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. He'd have to google that. That's why

724
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:37.639
<v Speaker 3>we have Google, is because we don't know. I don't

725
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:41.000
<v Speaker 3>know about the ransom notes.

726
00:41:41.119 --> 00:41:44.559
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I'll look that up. This, as it turns out,

727
00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:47.760
<v Speaker 2>is an excellent question because it pulled back the curtain

728
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:52.519
<v Speaker 2>to reveal a big flashing neon sign that read in

729
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:57.920
<v Speaker 2>curly script flim flam. So apparently people don't even ransom

730
00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:01.840
<v Speaker 2>note like that, according to design historian doctor Arden Stern

731
00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:05.280
<v Speaker 2>in her thesis the ransom note effect, cut and pacee

732
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:09.519
<v Speaker 2>typography in American visual culture, the imagery of a note

733
00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:13.239
<v Speaker 2>penned by a criminal with cut and paste letters originated

734
00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:16.519
<v Speaker 2>from the Sherlock Holmes crime novel The Hound of the

735
00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:20.519
<v Speaker 2>Baskervilles from the early nineteen hundreds. But before you go

736
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:23.880
<v Speaker 2>doing evil with the written word, be warned that your

737
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:29.119
<v Speaker 2>printer might be secretly encoding its own signature via tiny

738
00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:32.760
<v Speaker 2>yellow micro doots that show up under blue light, and

739
00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:37.639
<v Speaker 2>it's on everything you print. Oops, so don't go crime in. Also,

740
00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:41.320
<v Speaker 2>y'all know I'm not a big true crime lover, please

741
00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:43.920
<v Speaker 2>see Get Sad about a Dead Bee. But many of

742
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:47.199
<v Speaker 2>you brought up a certain famous handwritten ransom note involved

743
00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:49.880
<v Speaker 2>in the nineteen ninety six death of a small child.

744
00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:53.400
<v Speaker 2>And there's plenty of media spotlight on this case already,

745
00:42:53.639 --> 00:42:55.360
<v Speaker 2>so I'm sure I don't have to name it. But

746
00:42:55.480 --> 00:42:57.559
<v Speaker 2>before today I didn't even know that there was a

747
00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:02.239
<v Speaker 2>ransom note involved. But an overwhelming percentage of forensic handwriting

748
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:05.840
<v Speaker 2>analysts agree that the ransom note is in the mom's handwriting,

749
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:09.280
<v Speaker 2>and either way that life was still lost. Now, what

750
00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:13.119
<v Speaker 2>about life savers out there? This next question was also

751
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:18.159
<v Speaker 2>asked by Nikki d Abigail Manlin, Kate Chapman, and Michael Satambuka.

752
00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:22.440
<v Speaker 2>Sera Terry and a lot of other people asked what

753
00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:25.880
<v Speaker 2>is the old or is the old stereotype true that

754
00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:29.239
<v Speaker 2>all doctors have sloppy handwriting? Where did that even come

755
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:30.760
<v Speaker 2>from in the first place?

756
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:34.039
<v Speaker 3>Oh, my goodness, Every doctor that I've ever seen has it.

757
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:35.280
<v Speaker 3>I can say that they.

758
00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:41.800
<v Speaker 4>All have it. I think.

759
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:44.599
<v Speaker 3>I think where it comes from, though, is speed and

760
00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:48.320
<v Speaker 3>acceleration when a doctor goes through the residency. It's completely

761
00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:52.000
<v Speaker 3>insane what they put doctors through. I have several friends

762
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:55.480
<v Speaker 3>that have told me horror stories about working. You know, yes,

763
00:43:56.199 --> 00:43:59.400
<v Speaker 3>all those long hours. I'm doing double shifts and they're

764
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:03.719
<v Speaker 3>grinding all the time. It's very stressful, and when you

765
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:07.039
<v Speaker 3>get stressed, you tend to make more of the mountain peaks.

766
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:09.480
<v Speaker 3>Do you imagine that? Yes?

767
00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:12.760
<v Speaker 4>And Donald Trump's.

768
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:15.199
<v Speaker 3>Handwriting is a really good example of that. He shows

769
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:19.440
<v Speaker 3>his signature all the time and it's just pure mountain peaks.

770
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:23.639
<v Speaker 3>Donald's is like his stubbornness shows up because they're like tepis.

771
00:44:24.199 --> 00:44:27.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So side note, I Google image searched the president's

772
00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:31.360
<v Speaker 2>signature and it did not It didn't remind me of

773
00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:37.800
<v Speaker 2>anything related to indigenous people's culture. It's more like a

774
00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:42.000
<v Speaker 2>few people standing at the forefront of a big crowd,

775
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:45.239
<v Speaker 2>but they're all wearing hats, but like pointy ones. Any

776
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:48.280
<v Speaker 2>who's all So A bunch of people had this next question,

777
00:44:48.519 --> 00:44:55.000
<v Speaker 2>including Laura Shelti, Lawrence Ashra Coulhech, car Robin Cohen, Robin Cohen,

778
00:44:55.400 --> 00:44:59.679
<v Speaker 2>and Charlotte rudrig taren Haik asked, there's such a rise

779
00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:03.960
<v Speaker 2>in mobile devices that they seem to sign their name

780
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:06.320
<v Speaker 2>more with their finger than an actual pen these days,

781
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:09.239
<v Speaker 2>and they don't think it looks anything like the real signature.

782
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:15.480
<v Speaker 2>So does the method of finger signing capture really hold up? Like,

783
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:16.840
<v Speaker 2>what do you think done?

784
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:21.119
<v Speaker 3>I've done a couple of drug cases where the where

785
00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:26.079
<v Speaker 3>they were serious drug cases on narcotics and where people

786
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:30.360
<v Speaker 3>were selling prescriptions and the signatures that they gave me.

787
00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:33.440
<v Speaker 3>It was amazing that you could see the patterns in there.

788
00:45:33.559 --> 00:45:38.400
<v Speaker 3>It wasn't perfect, but you could see the handwriting, the

789
00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:42.400
<v Speaker 3>habitual patterns that I mentioned. You could see those on

790
00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:46.920
<v Speaker 3>the ones that this one person had really even on

791
00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:51.280
<v Speaker 3>a finger swipey even on and it's it was on

792
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:54.960
<v Speaker 3>where you just write out your name with your finger.

793
00:45:55.519 --> 00:45:58.159
<v Speaker 2>Timothy Dikes asks what is the best way to train

794
00:45:58.280 --> 00:46:00.440
<v Speaker 2>your handwriting both in print and cursive?

795
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:06.840
<v Speaker 3>To get a go online and get a penmanship print

796
00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:10.760
<v Speaker 3>out and make sure you have on on the cursive writing,

797
00:46:11.320 --> 00:46:14.719
<v Speaker 3>make sure that you have your upper loops, your lower loops,

798
00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:16.920
<v Speaker 3>and your your middle zone loops.

799
00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh how many other people asked about different handwritings. So

800
00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:25.119
<v Speaker 2>many of yous, including Jenny Bergstrom, Kaitlyn Carter, Jessica Beard,

801
00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:28.800
<v Speaker 2>Ray kash At, Madeline Rogers I, Renee Rosaria, and Aira

802
00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:34.039
<v Speaker 2>Sonia Karb Graham, Tedtersall, Rachel Wahlberg, Troy Clarkson, Caleb Patten,

803
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:39.519
<v Speaker 2>Don e Wald, Emily Hobin, Kelly Bradenthal, Cody Albert, Wayne Brantley,

804
00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:44.480
<v Speaker 2>Mma Fiory, Jen Athenas and Casey Arden had a great question,

805
00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:47.000
<v Speaker 2>why the heck do I have eighty seven different handwritings?

806
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:49.719
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes it's so neat it looks like a typeface. Sometimes

807
00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:52.280
<v Speaker 2>it's illegible. Sometimes I have a curly letters, sometimes not.

808
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:55.679
<v Speaker 2>What is up with this? Jen Anathos says, yes, what

809
00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:56.360
<v Speaker 2>she said.

810
00:46:56.840 --> 00:46:59.599
<v Speaker 4>Well, that depends, you know. That's something I would have

811
00:46:59.639 --> 00:46:59.960
<v Speaker 4>to look at.

812
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:05.280
<v Speaker 3>But generally speaking, people will tell me they have different handwritings,

813
00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:08.360
<v Speaker 3>and all it means is sometimes it's sloppy, and sometimes

814
00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:10.159
<v Speaker 3>it's neaterter, sometimes.

815
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:11.440
<v Speaker 4>It's bigger and bigger.

816
00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:15.360
<v Speaker 3>If we are real scattered, if our energy is real scattered,

817
00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:17.599
<v Speaker 3>and we have too many balls in the air, so

818
00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:21.719
<v Speaker 3>to speak, then our handwriting will be large and.

819
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:28.559
<v Speaker 4>Sloppy. Generally speaking, Now, one way that you can calm.

820
00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:32.559
<v Speaker 3>Yourself is to write a sentence and then just keep

821
00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:35.440
<v Speaker 3>making it smaller and smaller and smaller, and you will

822
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:41.480
<v Speaker 3>actually feel internally, you will feel a sense of focus. Wow,

823
00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:45.960
<v Speaker 3>it's like meditation. It will bring you into focus very quickly,

824
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:47.960
<v Speaker 3>just as long as it takes you, you know, like

825
00:47:48.039 --> 00:47:51.519
<v Speaker 3>a few minutes just to write three or four sentences

826
00:47:51.679 --> 00:47:55.840
<v Speaker 3>and making it smaller. Your mind knows what to do

827
00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:59.320
<v Speaker 3>with these things. It's really cool. And like you could

828
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:02.000
<v Speaker 3>have a child. If you have a child that's having

829
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:05.519
<v Speaker 3>a fit or tantrum, you can have them draw a

830
00:48:05.559 --> 00:48:09.079
<v Speaker 3>line and then draw another line a little shorter, another

831
00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:12.159
<v Speaker 3>line a little shorter, and even if you're directing their hand,

832
00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:13.719
<v Speaker 3>they will still calm down.

833
00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:17.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's great tip. I love this question from jen Anathas.

834
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:19.760
<v Speaker 2>She says, why does it seem some kinds of pens

835
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:22.039
<v Speaker 2>make my handwriting nicer and some are not as good

836
00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:24.800
<v Speaker 2>for my handwriting? And is there an ultimate pen?

837
00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:25.760
<v Speaker 3>Like?

838
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:28.880
<v Speaker 2>What is the most expensive pen, what's the nicest? What

839
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:29.840
<v Speaker 2>do you have a preferred pen?

840
00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:31.119
<v Speaker 4>I have a preferred pin.

841
00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:36.159
<v Speaker 3>I use a uniball okay, and I only sign I

842
00:48:36.199 --> 00:48:39.480
<v Speaker 3>only sign documents important documents.

843
00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:40.920
<v Speaker 4>With blue ink okay.

844
00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:47.119
<v Speaker 3>And I use a Uni ball rolling writer and I

845
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:50.199
<v Speaker 3>never use ballpoint pin. Ballpoint pin will seep into the

846
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:56.840
<v Speaker 3>fibers of a paper. In a few years, I discovered

847
00:48:56.840 --> 00:48:59.719
<v Speaker 3>that when I was going through some original checks that

848
00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:01.360
<v Speaker 3>had been written in ballpoint pen?

849
00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:05.280
<v Speaker 2>Are ballpoint pens bad for writing checks?

850
00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:06.039
<v Speaker 3>What the fuck?

851
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:06.360
<v Speaker 1>So?

852
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:09.920
<v Speaker 2>I looked into this and apparently most ballpoint pens are

853
00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:13.960
<v Speaker 2>die based and they're easy to wash using a solvent

854
00:49:14.199 --> 00:49:18.800
<v Speaker 2>of matching polarity like nail polish remover. But uniball and

855
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:22.079
<v Speaker 2>other gel pens are pigment based and you can't remove

856
00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:26.039
<v Speaker 2>pigments without destroying the paper. Also, so text your crush

857
00:49:26.360 --> 00:49:30.280
<v Speaker 2>cut bangs, get yourself a nice gel pen live for today.

858
00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:32.840
<v Speaker 2>What about point size? Are you a point five? Are

859
00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:33.280
<v Speaker 2>you fine?

860
00:49:33.800 --> 00:49:35.159
<v Speaker 4>I like five to seven?

861
00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:35.559
<v Speaker 3>Now?

862
00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:38.400
<v Speaker 2>What do you think I hold my pencil on my

863
00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:40.920
<v Speaker 2>third finger. I think we're supposed to hold it like this.

864
00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:43.719
<v Speaker 2>Is there a best way to hold your pens? It's, however,

865
00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:47.840
<v Speaker 2>is most comfortable for you? Yeah? I think I Yeah,

866
00:49:47.920 --> 00:49:49.559
<v Speaker 2>I do it on the third And.

867
00:49:49.880 --> 00:49:53.639
<v Speaker 3>To answer her question, each person will have a preference

868
00:49:53.719 --> 00:49:56.440
<v Speaker 3>for what kind of pen and paper. I love papers.

869
00:49:57.079 --> 00:50:00.239
<v Speaker 3>I have more paper at my house than you can imagine.

870
00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:05.119
<v Speaker 3>And I love pins, pencils, And I don't like those

871
00:50:05.159 --> 00:50:09.559
<v Speaker 3>erasers on there that blur. I like the white gummy

872
00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:12.639
<v Speaker 3>erasers that get it cleanly swept off.

873
00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:17.960
<v Speaker 2>So many maybe lefties had the same question, including Jack

874
00:50:18.039 --> 00:50:23.000
<v Speaker 2>kellaher Katy Halverson, One Way, Ariel Bruce, Katie Chavez, Wayne Brentley,

875
00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:28.880
<v Speaker 2>don Edwald, Michelle Grondine, Sophie Cosno, Nathan Elgrim, Jessica iron A,

876
00:50:29.199 --> 00:50:32.119
<v Speaker 2>and and a lot of people had this question. Hannahleise

877
00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:35.079
<v Speaker 2>asks why is the right hand considered to be the

878
00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:37.920
<v Speaker 2>proper hand for writing? Does it have a practical or

879
00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:41.159
<v Speaker 2>religious background? I know my sister went to Catholic school

880
00:50:41.199 --> 00:50:47.519
<v Speaker 2>and then nuns wouldn't let her use her left handy.

881
00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:45.840
<v Speaker 4>Isn't it?

882
00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:50.039
<v Speaker 3>You know we program our children by where we put

883
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:54.039
<v Speaker 3>their silverware. Oh, really, think about that for a moment.

884
00:50:54.559 --> 00:50:58.119
<v Speaker 3>We were always taught that this is how you set

885
00:50:58.159 --> 00:50:58.719
<v Speaker 3>the table.

886
00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:02.519
<v Speaker 2>Sylvia pause here to get a cough drop. In a

887
00:51:03.159 --> 00:51:06.280
<v Speaker 2>Catholic school, they would come and smack you because sinistra left.

888
00:51:06.760 --> 00:51:09.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, the hand of the devil.

889
00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:12.599
<v Speaker 3>I know, it's just superstitious stuff.

890
00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:14.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right.

891
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:18.519
<v Speaker 3>Most things are being developed for right handed people because

892
00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:21.760
<v Speaker 3>of that very fact that we were forced to write

893
00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:25.039
<v Speaker 3>with our right hand, or program based on where our

894
00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:25.920
<v Speaker 3>silverware was.

895
00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:30.440
<v Speaker 4>So I recommend that if you're with your children, you've

896
00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:32.320
<v Speaker 4>just put the silverware in the middle of the plate

897
00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:34.639
<v Speaker 4>and let them decide which hand they want to use.

898
00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:35.719
<v Speaker 2>Nice.

899
00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:36.920
<v Speaker 4>Isn't that a good idea?

900
00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:37.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

901
00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:40.679
<v Speaker 2>Do you know what a hagfish is? A hagfish is

902
00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:43.599
<v Speaker 2>a kind of a slimy eel like fish that doesn't

903
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:47.119
<v Speaker 2>have a backbone, and it exudes just gallons of mu kiss.

904
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:50.119
<v Speaker 2>But they coil into a little coil, and some of

905
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:52.119
<v Speaker 2>them coil one way and some of them coil the

906
00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:54.920
<v Speaker 2>other way. They have right handed and left handed preferences.

907
00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:57.199
<v Speaker 2>Isn't that cute, these little hagfish at the bottom of

908
00:51:57.199 --> 00:51:59.119
<v Speaker 2>the ocean. I think that's wonderful.

909
00:51:59.239 --> 00:52:02.440
<v Speaker 4>And so if you look in nature, that's the same truths.

910
00:52:03.159 --> 00:52:09.280
<v Speaker 3>And so even back in the cave dwellings, back in

911
00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:13.519
<v Speaker 3>Caesar's time, he would select his people by their handwriting.

912
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:14.320
<v Speaker 2>He would.

913
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:15.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's what he told me.

914
00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:18.679
<v Speaker 4>Anyway back in the day.

915
00:52:18.760 --> 00:52:21.480
<v Speaker 3>That's something that I read in one of my historical

916
00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:22.760
<v Speaker 3>books about handwriting.

917
00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:26.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, that surprises me. So back then, soide note,

918
00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:28.960
<v Speaker 2>there were people who acted as assistants and then they

919
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:34.519
<v Speaker 2>just take notes as orators orated. They were called a menuensis,

920
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:37.440
<v Speaker 2>which sounds a lot like a medical condition that I

921
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:40.119
<v Speaker 2>don't want. What do you think of celebrities who are

922
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:42.719
<v Speaker 2>asked to give autographs. Are they giving away their signature

923
00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:45.119
<v Speaker 2>to everyone who asked for it? Is there any security?

924
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:47.559
<v Speaker 3>Ahoman? Not really.

925
00:52:47.719 --> 00:52:50.960
<v Speaker 4>Well, it's going to be probably.

926
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:55.199
<v Speaker 3>It probably gets pretty sloppy as it goes along, because

927
00:52:55.480 --> 00:52:58.480
<v Speaker 3>I've watched them sign these autographs and they do it

928
00:52:58.599 --> 00:53:03.679
<v Speaker 3>just you know, there in a hurry. Some of them

929
00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:07.800
<v Speaker 3>will actually have different pins for them to use and

930
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:11.639
<v Speaker 3>then they take the pen back. So I think that's fine.

931
00:53:11.679 --> 00:53:14.480
<v Speaker 3>I don't think that there's a problem. That is where

932
00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:17.519
<v Speaker 3>the most fraud is committed, though, as in memorabilia, So

933
00:53:17.719 --> 00:53:19.239
<v Speaker 3>be very cautious about that.

934
00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:23.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because if you have some scribbled on poster halle Berry,

935
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:24.760
<v Speaker 2>how do you know that she actually signed it.

936
00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:28.320
<v Speaker 3>You don't unless you have some of her known signatures,

937
00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:31.119
<v Speaker 3>and there can be natural variation. It could be that

938
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:34.079
<v Speaker 3>she had a signature for her public and a signature

939
00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:35.960
<v Speaker 3>for her own personal account.

940
00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Do you have any autographs from famous people that you treasure?

941
00:53:41.960 --> 00:53:47.159
<v Speaker 3>Well, James Taylor. I actually James Taylor signed a guitar

942
00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:50.880
<v Speaker 3>for me. One of my good friends took me to

943
00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:54.559
<v Speaker 3>see James Taylor and got a picture of me with

944
00:53:54.639 --> 00:54:00.199
<v Speaker 3>James Taylor. He's who always been one of my favorites. Yeah,

945
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:02.000
<v Speaker 3>and he's signed a guitar for me.

946
00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:03.480
<v Speaker 2>What do you think of a signature?

947
00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:06.719
<v Speaker 3>Didn't pay much attention to it, truthfully.

948
00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:10.119
<v Speaker 4>No, people think I look at everything. No I don't.

949
00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:12.840
<v Speaker 3>I have had people's personal diaries that had all kind

950
00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:16.280
<v Speaker 3>of stuff in it, and I'm just looking at the

951
00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:18.079
<v Speaker 3>characteristic Yeah.

952
00:54:18.119 --> 00:54:19.239
<v Speaker 4>And then when I took.

953
00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:22.960
<v Speaker 3>It back, the guy said, well, what did you think

954
00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:26.480
<v Speaker 3>about all of that? And I said, oh, what I said,

955
00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:28.119
<v Speaker 3>you didn't read it? And I said, no, I don't

956
00:54:28.159 --> 00:54:31.639
<v Speaker 3>read the content. Usually now in forensics, I have to

957
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:32.400
<v Speaker 3>read the content.

958
00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:34.480
<v Speaker 4>But it's just funny.

959
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:39.159
<v Speaker 2>It's just funny when it comes to, you know, leaving

960
00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:43.280
<v Speaker 2>behind a will or something. I talked to a panatologist

961
00:54:43.519 --> 00:54:46.119
<v Speaker 2>who is a grief counselor, and she said that written

962
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:48.880
<v Speaker 2>wills in an envelope just saying yo, this is my will,

963
00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:51.320
<v Speaker 2>those are legit. Do you think people should write those

964
00:54:51.320 --> 00:54:52.800
<v Speaker 2>in their own handwriting instead of typing them?

965
00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:53.400
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely?

966
00:54:53.559 --> 00:54:57.760
<v Speaker 4>Okay, anything that's typed has doubt on it.

967
00:54:57.880 --> 00:54:58.239
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

968
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:01.239
<v Speaker 3>And if you write it out as call a holographic will,

969
00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:03.840
<v Speaker 3>and each state has different rules on it, jot it

970
00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:06.719
<v Speaker 3>down to watch piece paper it's I think it's terrific

971
00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:11.119
<v Speaker 3>to have one typed by an attorney or a law

972
00:55:11.159 --> 00:55:15.920
<v Speaker 3>firm and signed and witnesses. And then I also think

973
00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:19.599
<v Speaker 3>that on your personal stuff that you want to give away,

974
00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:23.280
<v Speaker 3>if you have that in your handwriting and includes your handwriting.

975
00:55:22.800 --> 00:55:24.800
<v Speaker 2>With it, oh good idea, you.

976
00:55:24.760 --> 00:55:27.480
<v Speaker 4>Know, letters and put the evidence there.

977
00:55:27.679 --> 00:55:29.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, makes your job easier.

978
00:55:29.440 --> 00:55:33.119
<v Speaker 3>Well, it makes the job for the errors easier too,

979
00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:37.840
<v Speaker 3>because I have seen families just say I can't find anything.

980
00:55:38.119 --> 00:55:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, so leave it with just leave it behind.

981
00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:43.719
<v Speaker 2>That's a great idea, you know. I think we always think, oh,

982
00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:45.639
<v Speaker 2>with a will, you've got to type it up and

983
00:55:45.639 --> 00:55:48.079
<v Speaker 2>have a notarye prace. But it better have something than nothing.

984
00:55:48.840 --> 00:55:52.320
<v Speaker 3>Well, the notaries are always suspect to these days because

985
00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:56.920
<v Speaker 3>not everybody keeps a notary. Log I have one case

986
00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:01.639
<v Speaker 3>where the man, let's see, his first wife died, he

987
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:05.199
<v Speaker 3>got married the second time. She had three children, he

988
00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:09.960
<v Speaker 3>had two. They were married for like thirty years. The

989
00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:15.440
<v Speaker 3>man dies and he leaves everything to his wife. If

990
00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:19.559
<v Speaker 3>she's deceased, then it's to go to the children. So

991
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:26.199
<v Speaker 3>here's what happens. He dies, she gets everything, and then

992
00:56:26.559 --> 00:56:29.400
<v Speaker 3>she lives quite a long time, maybe ten years longer,

993
00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:34.800
<v Speaker 3>and then she leaves everything to her kids and rules

994
00:56:34.840 --> 00:56:38.280
<v Speaker 3>out his and each one of those girls lost a

995
00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:39.480
<v Speaker 3>million dollars.

996
00:56:39.199 --> 00:56:39.960
<v Speaker 4>Oh boy.

997
00:56:40.159 --> 00:56:44.159
<v Speaker 3>And it came primarily from his retirement. But because of

998
00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:48.559
<v Speaker 3>the way it was written, it wasn't spelled out.

999
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:51.840
<v Speaker 2>You'd think the step kids would be like, we know

1000
00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:55.920
<v Speaker 2>this is rightfully yours. You would think with that much money, yeah,

1001
00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:57.039
<v Speaker 2>he has stepsisters.

1002
00:56:57.079 --> 00:57:00.639
<v Speaker 3>Indeed, I saw the will of the mother and someone

1003
00:57:00.679 --> 00:57:03.679
<v Speaker 3>had written over it in written over her say it

1004
00:57:03.880 --> 00:57:08.119
<v Speaker 3>was a fraudulent will, the signatures on it, and yet

1005
00:57:08.119 --> 00:57:10.480
<v Speaker 3>they couldn't do anything about it because so much time

1006
00:57:10.519 --> 00:57:11.159
<v Speaker 3>had passed it.

1007
00:57:11.199 --> 00:57:14.199
<v Speaker 2>I mean, they should just do a CSI handwriting and

1008
00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:15.599
<v Speaker 2>you should be the producer of it.

1009
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:18.760
<v Speaker 4>Well, sure, absolutely, and just show me the money.

1010
00:57:18.519 --> 00:57:24.360
<v Speaker 2>Okay, and then you'll show you the signature on the check. First.

1011
00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:27.320
<v Speaker 2>What do you dislike about your job? What sucks about

1012
00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:27.639
<v Speaker 2>your job?

1013
00:57:28.679 --> 00:57:32.519
<v Speaker 3>Sometimes it's stressful because everything seems to come at one time.

1014
00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:34.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like I had.

1015
00:57:34.519 --> 00:57:35.679
<v Speaker 4>These five cases.

1016
00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:39.440
<v Speaker 3>It all came this week, and that doesn't count what

1017
00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:42.760
<v Speaker 3>I've got on the back burner waiting. And so sometimes

1018
00:57:43.079 --> 00:57:48.000
<v Speaker 3>it'll it'll come all at one time, and it's with

1019
00:57:48.360 --> 00:57:50.119
<v Speaker 3>heavy deadlines and stuff like that.

1020
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:54.039
<v Speaker 4>But I wouldn't even say I hate it. It's distressful. Yeah,

1021
00:57:54.079 --> 00:57:55.199
<v Speaker 4>and I love my job.

1022
00:57:55.280 --> 00:57:58.079
<v Speaker 3>I love the fact that I can do it, and

1023
00:57:58.159 --> 00:58:03.039
<v Speaker 3>I feel very competent in doing it, and it's just.

1024
00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:03.760
<v Speaker 4>A lot of fun.

1025
00:58:03.880 --> 00:58:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what's your favorite thing about what you do or

1026
00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:06.639
<v Speaker 2>about handwriting?

1027
00:58:07.199 --> 00:58:11.239
<v Speaker 3>Helping an attorney solve the case, whether it's in probate

1028
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:16.440
<v Speaker 3>or helping a family that's got a problem child and

1029
00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:19.679
<v Speaker 3>they don't know what to do. And I can't tell

1030
00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:22.199
<v Speaker 3>you how many gifted children. I can think of three

1031
00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:26.079
<v Speaker 3>right off the top of my head where they were

1032
00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:28.920
<v Speaker 3>in trouble at school, but it's because they were bored.

1033
00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:32.480
<v Speaker 4>Out of their head. They weren't turning into homework. They

1034
00:58:32.480 --> 00:58:33.599
<v Speaker 4>were quite gifted.

1035
00:58:34.400 --> 00:58:40.960
<v Speaker 3>And one little boy, he was eleven years old. I

1036
00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:43.480
<v Speaker 3>insisted that the parents take him and get his IQ

1037
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:46.760
<v Speaker 3>tested and he was off the charts in math. And

1038
00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:50.159
<v Speaker 3>here he is just suffering. I mean school was like

1039
00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:53.079
<v Speaker 3>prison to him. Yeah, and he was just bored and

1040
00:58:53.079 --> 00:58:54.519
<v Speaker 3>there's just yeah, he was just bored.

1041
00:58:54.679 --> 00:58:58.159
<v Speaker 2>So helping people, helping families, making a measurable difference, yea.

1042
00:58:58.440 --> 00:59:00.679
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, things that I can results.

1043
00:59:00.760 --> 00:59:03.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, do people write you handwritten thank you notes, because

1044
00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:06.719
<v Speaker 2>they should not very often they should they but they

1045
00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:11.960
<v Speaker 2>will usually send me emails. They'll send me emails and

1046
00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:14.519
<v Speaker 2>they'll express their gratitude.

1047
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:17.000
<v Speaker 4>And that's sweet.

1048
00:59:17.119 --> 00:59:18.239
<v Speaker 3>It's it is sweet.

1049
00:59:18.360 --> 00:59:20.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And do you write HANDWRT? Think you know?

1050
00:59:20.639 --> 00:59:21.280
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely?

1051
00:59:21.400 --> 00:59:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Of course you do. Of course I do. And if

1052
00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:27.440
<v Speaker 2>nothing else, all of us listening should just remember how important.

1053
00:59:27.559 --> 00:59:31.880
<v Speaker 3>Go buy some nice notepaper and think of somebody that's

1054
00:59:31.880 --> 00:59:34.599
<v Speaker 3>been important to you and just write them a nice, little,

1055
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:37.239
<v Speaker 3>sweet little note that says you're so important in my life,

1056
00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:41.119
<v Speaker 3>thank you for all the things. I have a friend

1057
00:59:41.480 --> 00:59:47.639
<v Speaker 3>that I was struggling with my oven racks, scrubbing them meticulously,

1058
00:59:47.960 --> 00:59:51.039
<v Speaker 3>and I could not get them clean, and I was

1059
00:59:51.159 --> 00:59:54.480
<v Speaker 3>just ready to There were an upper there's an upper oven,

1060
00:59:54.519 --> 00:59:57.400
<v Speaker 3>and the lower oven. There's six racks altogether, and I'm going, God,

1061
00:59:57.440 --> 01:00:00.559
<v Speaker 3>I'll never get through with these. And I'm not a

1062
01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:04.159
<v Speaker 3>domestic goddess anymore. I just can't do this. And so

1063
01:00:04.199 --> 01:00:07.840
<v Speaker 3>I was complaining to my friend, and she said, put

1064
01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:13.079
<v Speaker 3>him in your dishwasher on the highest temperature and put

1065
01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:17.639
<v Speaker 3>two pods in there and it'll be just fine. And

1066
01:00:17.679 --> 01:00:18.599
<v Speaker 3>they were.

1067
01:00:20.320 --> 01:00:23.000
<v Speaker 4>So young. People have a lot to contribute to us.

1068
01:00:24.239 --> 01:00:25.679
<v Speaker 2>Do you write her thank you note? You gotta write

1069
01:00:25.679 --> 01:00:26.800
<v Speaker 2>her think, Oh yeah I did.

1070
01:00:27.400 --> 01:00:31.840
<v Speaker 3>I wrote her a thank you note from Brian Andreas's collection.

1071
01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:34.719
<v Speaker 3>He's an artist that does these quirky things and I

1072
01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:35.559
<v Speaker 3>love his work.

1073
01:00:36.360 --> 01:00:38.920
<v Speaker 2>Ps. I looked up the stationary and I expected to

1074
01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:43.119
<v Speaker 2>find like an ornate, cream colored paper, maybe with gold

1075
01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:48.440
<v Speaker 2>foiled Venetian floral motifs. But no, his work very bold

1076
01:00:48.519 --> 01:00:51.639
<v Speaker 2>colors with sketchy modern drawings, very cute.

1077
01:00:51.920 --> 01:00:55.000
<v Speaker 3>And so I said, You've helped me with so many things,

1078
01:00:55.039 --> 01:00:57.480
<v Speaker 3>but those oven racks, that was off the chart.

1079
01:00:58.079 --> 01:00:58.840
<v Speaker 2>What's her name?

1080
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:04.679
<v Speaker 3>Her name is Roxand Brand and she's in Warwick, New York.

1081
01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, now, Roxanne Brand is gonna help a lot of

1082
01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:09.360
<v Speaker 2>people with their oven racks. There's a lot of people

1083
01:01:09.360 --> 01:01:11.360
<v Speaker 2>that are be like, but I'm in the dishwasher for

1084
01:01:11.480 --> 01:01:15.159
<v Speaker 2>two pods. So thanks for hot temperature. Okay, hot hot

1085
01:01:15.199 --> 01:01:19.079
<v Speaker 2>two pods. Yeah, thanks Roxanne of Warwick, Thank you so

1086
01:01:19.199 --> 01:01:21.039
<v Speaker 2>much for being on. This is amazing, You're welcome, This

1087
01:01:21.119 --> 01:01:22.000
<v Speaker 2>is so much.

1088
01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:23.320
<v Speaker 4>For coming to Nebraska.

1089
01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:29.599
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely worth it. Thank you so ask smart people stupid

1090
01:01:29.719 --> 01:01:33.679
<v Speaker 2>questions and maybe treat yourself to a stationary store. Write

1091
01:01:33.679 --> 01:01:36.599
<v Speaker 2>someone in a letter, Get yourself a little notebook, Wake

1092
01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:39.239
<v Speaker 2>up early, let your mind dribble out of a pen.

1093
01:01:39.679 --> 01:01:43.039
<v Speaker 2>No judgment Now. To learn more about Sylvia's work, She's

1094
01:01:43.119 --> 01:01:47.519
<v Speaker 2>at Forgery Deetection Experts dot com and more links will

1095
01:01:47.519 --> 01:01:51.119
<v Speaker 2>be up at aliwar dot com, slash ologies slash Graphology.

1096
01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:55.400
<v Speaker 2>We're at Ologies on Twitter and Instagram. I'm at ali

1097
01:01:55.480 --> 01:01:58.280
<v Speaker 2>Ward with one L on both. I'm also on the

1098
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:01.840
<v Speaker 2>CBS show Innovation Nation every Saturday morning, and I host

1099
01:02:01.880 --> 01:02:04.000
<v Speaker 2>my own science show on the CW called Did I

1100
01:02:04.039 --> 01:02:08.039
<v Speaker 2>Mention Invention? And I'm on the Netflix kid series Brainchild.

1101
01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:11.840
<v Speaker 2>You can get Ologies merch at ologiesmerch dot com, tag

1102
01:02:11.880 --> 01:02:14.639
<v Speaker 2>itt ologies merch on Instagram and we'll repost that photo

1103
01:02:14.800 --> 01:02:17.039
<v Speaker 2>look at us. Thank you to Shannon Felts and Bonnie

1104
01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:20.360
<v Speaker 2>Dutch of the podcast You Are That for managing the merch,

1105
01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:23.400
<v Speaker 2>and thank you Aaron Talburn and Hanle Lippo for adminting

1106
01:02:23.480 --> 01:02:26.639
<v Speaker 2>the Facebook group full of wonderful people. If you're not

1107
01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:29.800
<v Speaker 2>on Facebook, you can also join the subreddit Ologies podcast

1108
01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:33.360
<v Speaker 2>to chat about episodes and science stuff there. Thank you

1109
01:02:33.519 --> 01:02:36.559
<v Speaker 2>Jared Sleeper of the mental health podcast My Good Bad

1110
01:02:36.679 --> 01:02:40.079
<v Speaker 2>Brain for assistant editing and helping with some extra research

1111
01:02:40.159 --> 01:02:43.400
<v Speaker 2>this week, and of course to the penman who keeps

1112
01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:46.960
<v Speaker 2>it all in shipshape, Stephen Ray Morris of the podcast

1113
01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:50.000
<v Speaker 2>s Jurassic Right and the per Cast for stitching it

1114
01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:53.440
<v Speaker 2>all together every week. Nick Thorburn wrote and performed the music,

1115
01:02:53.480 --> 01:02:56.320
<v Speaker 2>and he's in the band Islands and they're a great band. Now,

1116
01:02:56.320 --> 01:02:57.920
<v Speaker 2>if you stick around to the end of the episode,

1117
01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:01.559
<v Speaker 2>you know I tell you a secret this week. The

1118
01:03:01.679 --> 01:03:05.880
<v Speaker 2>secret is I got a dog at Long Last. I've

1119
01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:09.559
<v Speaker 2>wanted one for like ten years. She's a gray little

1120
01:03:09.679 --> 01:03:14.760
<v Speaker 2>rescue poodle mix with giant ears. She looks like a gremlin,

1121
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:18.199
<v Speaker 2>and so her name turned out to be Gremy. But

1122
01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:20.880
<v Speaker 2>before naming her, I asked all the folks on the

1123
01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Patreon page what their aunt's names were, because I wanted

1124
01:03:23.719 --> 01:03:27.119
<v Speaker 2>to name my pups somehow after them. Just for making

1125
01:03:27.239 --> 01:03:31.039
<v Speaker 2>the show possible, It's totally changed my life. It's given

1126
01:03:31.079 --> 01:03:33.119
<v Speaker 2>me the guts to finally get a dog. And so

1127
01:03:33.639 --> 01:03:39.039
<v Speaker 2>her name is officially Gremlin gr em Ly and n

1128
01:03:39.320 --> 01:03:44.679
<v Speaker 2>aka grem Linda because I crunched the numbers and Linda

1129
01:03:44.760 --> 01:03:47.800
<v Speaker 2>and Lynn were some of the most popular ants names

1130
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:50.800
<v Speaker 2>that y'all had, so part of her name is named

1131
01:03:50.800 --> 01:03:53.639
<v Speaker 2>after y'all on Patreon, So thank you Patreon. I have

1132
01:03:53.719 --> 01:03:56.239
<v Speaker 2>a dog. Now I get to keep making this podcast

1133
01:03:56.280 --> 01:03:59.880
<v Speaker 2>every week. It's the best job ever. Also a granola

1134
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:03.280
<v Speaker 2>for dinner while writing this, but I had like three bowls.

1135
01:04:03.400 --> 01:04:05.440
<v Speaker 2>I feel so sick now, but.

1136
01:04:05.440 --> 01:04:06.199
<v Speaker 1>I was so good.

1137
01:04:06.440 --> 01:04:24.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, bye bye pacodermatology, hobbiology or doo zoology, lithology, new technology, meteorology, metatology, menthology, seriology, elinology,

1138
01:04:26.440 --> 01:04:28.559
<v Speaker 2>and now we're going to talk about loops.