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Every 66 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:29.800 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 67 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:34.439 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 68 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:37.360 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 69 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:50.879 Good evening. When you think of serial killers throughout history, 70 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:53.560 the names that come to mind are ones like Jack 71 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:57.599 the Ripper, John Wayne Gacy, and Ted Bundy. But what 72 00:02:57.719 --> 00:03:04.479 about Tillie Kilmick Kate Bender. The narrative we're comfortable with 73 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:07.439 is the one where women are the victims of violent crime, 74 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:11.439 not the perpetrators. In fact, serial killers are thought to 75 00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:16.039 be so universally overwhelmingly male that in nineteen ninety eight, 76 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:21.479 FBI profiler Roy Hazelwood infamously declared in a homicide conference 77 00:03:22.199 --> 00:03:26.479 there are no female serial killers. Lady Killers. Based on 78 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:29.680 the popular online series that appeared on Jezebel and the 79 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:35.280 Hairpin disputes that claim and offers fourteen gruesome examples as evidence. 80 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:40.400 Though largely forgotten by history, female serial killers such as 81 00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:49.159 Urzebet Bathory, Nanni Das, Marianne Cotton, and Darra Nikolovna Saltakova 82 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:54.759 rival their male counterparts in cunning, cruelty, and appetite for destruction. 83 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:57.680 Each chapter explores the crimes and history of a different 84 00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:01.240 subject and then proceeds to unpack back her legacy and 85 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:04.520 her portrayal in the media, as well as the stereotypes 86 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:09.400 and sexist cliches then inevitably surround her. The first book 87 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:12.800 to examine female serial killers through a feminist lens with 88 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:17.600 a witty and dryly humorous tone, Lady Killers dismisses easy 89 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:21.279 explanations she was hormonal, she did it for love, a 90 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:24.319 man made her do it, and tire tropes she was 91 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:28.639 a female fit, a femme fetale, a black widow, a witch. 92 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:33.399 Delving into the complex reality of female aggression and predation, 93 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:39.079 Featuring fourteen illustrations from Dame Darcy, Lady Killers is a 94 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:43.759 blood curdling, insightful, and irresistible journey into the heart of darkness. 95 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:46.959 The book that we're featuring this evening is Lady Killers, 96 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:51.360 Deadly Women Throughout History, with my special guests, journalist and 97 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:54.879 author Tory Telfer. Welcome to the program, and thank you 98 00:04:54.959 --> 00:04:58.879 very much for a Greenness interview. Tory Telfer, Hi, thank 99 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:02.199 you so much for having me. Thank you so much. 100 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:08.199 This really is quite eye opening. We more than alluded 101 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:11.959 it to it in the introduction. I want to ask 102 00:05:12.839 --> 00:05:15.160 a little bit about, because we put it in the introduction, 103 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:20.120 about Jezebel and the Hairpin, the online series, and how 104 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:24.240 this was based on the popular online series, and where 105 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.560 you dispute the claim that there are no female serial killers. 106 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:29.839 So tell us a little bit about your background and 107 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:33.160 how you came to this writing Lady Killers, and tell 108 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:35.839 us a little bit about Jezebel and the Hairpin and 109 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:39.639 this idea that you wanted to spell in this book 110 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:41.720 Lady Killers. 111 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:47.439 Sure well, I before I started writing about female serial killers, 112 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:49.720 I was just kind of starting out as a freelance 113 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:53.800 writer after working and publishing and doing some time in 114 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:57.680 an MFA, and I really wanted a column. In my 115 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:02.120 mind that was like the coolest thing ever. So when 116 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:05.519 I saw that this website called The All was looking 117 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:08.680 for historical columns. I racked my brain to think what 118 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:10.319 would be fun to write about, and I thought of 119 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:16.199 female serial killers because I've always liked creepy history. I've 120 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:20.720 always liked weird history, and I've always liked sort of 121 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:26.879 deranged individuals that history has overlooked. So I pitched the 122 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:30.399 idea to the All and they shot it over to 123 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:33.720 their sister site, The Hairpin, and that's where it started. 124 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:37.279 And I was really pleased how much people liked it. 125 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:41.920 I think, you know, as you probably know, women love 126 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:48.240 true crime, and I just had all these amazing readers 127 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:53.279 who who really enjoyed reading about these killer women. And 128 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:55.519 then the reason it ended up on Jezebel is because 129 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:59.319 my editor at The Hairpin moved to Jezebel, so she 130 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:02.920 took their home fair, which is nice. And I only 131 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:05.839 ever did four installments of those, and then I started 132 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:08.079 working on the book. But all of those columns are 133 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:11.040 in the book, but in a more updated format with 134 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:16.920 new research and I think some smarter conclusions. So it 135 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:18.480 was a fun process. 136 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:24.319 Absolutely. So you came to write Lady Killers and tell 137 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:28.519 us the criteria for inclusion in this what you were 138 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:34.040 looking for? What was the sort of breath of variety's 139 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:37.439 you were going to display in this book. Tell us 140 00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:41.040 some of the criteria for stories that were included in 141 00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:41.600 this book. 142 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:45.480 I'm so glad you asked that, because I thought long 143 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:47.279 and hard about it, and no one ever asked me that. 144 00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:53.480 So I had many criteria in my head. I only 145 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:59.079 wanted to do quote unquote vintage serial Killers because I 146 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:02.040 wanted to keep it more of a spooky book rather 147 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:04.399 than it. Oh man, this world we live in is 148 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:08.800 so depressing book. So I stopped. I stopped in the 149 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:13.639 nineteen fifties. You know, the world was very different back then. 150 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:17.079 The serial killer from the fifties just just feels different 151 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:22.639 than Eileen Werno's or someone else. So I had that. 152 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:26.240 I also tried to make it as diverse as possible 153 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:32.240 in terms of time period, country of origin, method of 154 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:37.919 killing class. You know, serial killers both male and female 155 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.919 are very white. But I managed to find a little 156 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:45.240 diversity there. And so I was kind of looking at 157 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:47.799 when I had my women, when I had some of 158 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:53.399 the women I would have to like. Whoever else I 159 00:08:53.399 --> 00:08:55.919 wanted to include had to sort of fit into the 160 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:59.519 ones that were already in there. If that makes sense, sure, 161 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:02.720 and I just I also just kind of looked for 162 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:07.480 ones that just made me excited and intrigued me. And 163 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:10.080 that's really you know, you just sort of know when 164 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:12.840 you come across a serial killer that you want to 165 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:17.159 learn more about. That's kind of a personal criteria that 166 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:19.639 I can't really articulate. But just all the women in 167 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:21.720 this book, there's just something about their stories that I 168 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:29.600 was like, ooh, that's she sounds complicated or something. So 169 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:31.039 I think that that was all. 170 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:37.200 You also really go out of your way to find stories. 171 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:41.159 Well not only that had a huge myth, and the 172 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:45.960 mythology grew and the story, as they often do, grows 173 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:49.960 and a lot of misinformation comes from that. So there's 174 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:53.399 a lot of myths. And then the spelling of the 175 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:55.279 myths in this book isn't there. So there's a lot 176 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:58.320 of really what we thought was a story is not 177 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:00.639 the story, and that's going to be frustrated in the 178 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:04.399 first story we talk about with his Erzabit Bathory. But 179 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:09.879 before we get to that, is there some other theme, 180 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:13.840 like when you talk about nineteen ninety eight, you know, 181 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:18.080 the famous profiler Roy Hazel would declaring that there are 182 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:20.159 no female serial killers, and then you say, well, we 183 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:25.759 can find fourteen. There's a little bit more discussed in 184 00:10:25.799 --> 00:10:29.559 this book than you just happen to find fourteen female 185 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:34.759 serial killers. So respond to that statement, I have and 186 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:37.919 compared to what Roy hazel would sayd in nineteen ninety 187 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:38.840 eight and what you. 188 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:46.080 Found, oh, I found way more than fourteen female serial killers. 189 00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:49.799 I think what Roy hazel Wood was saying, I mean, 190 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:52.679 people use that quote all the time to show that 191 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:55.080 he was wrong, So I do feel bad for him. 192 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:57.679 I think what he was saying is, I think he 193 00:10:57.720 --> 00:11:01.480 was thinking of serial killing in a more narrow sense, 194 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:07.120 like you know, the serial killer who kind of stalks, rapes, 195 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:14.440 violently kills strangers. And there aren't I mean, aside from 196 00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:17.799 Eileen Werenas, there really aren't too many women who kill 197 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:22.799 like that. But all the serial killing is is, you know, 198 00:11:23.559 --> 00:11:26.440 I would say, I think the XBI says too, killing 199 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:29.679 three or more people with a cooling off period in between. 200 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:33.559 So just because women are poisoning people and that's maybe 201 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:38.159 not as quote unquote scary, that doesn't mean they're not 202 00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:41.080 a serial killer. I mean, you poison three people with 203 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:44.360 a cooling off period in between, you're totally a serial killer. 204 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:49.360 And so I think that's why people, you know, have 205 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:51.759 thoughts that there haven't been any historically. Does that answer 206 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:52.279 your question? 207 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:58.320 Yes, certainly. Now let's talk about the first subject here, 208 00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:00.159 and this is the one where you talk about at 209 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:06.159 eight black metal bands. There's been movies, there's been so 210 00:12:06.279 --> 00:12:11.320 many things, and there's such a mythology about Urzebete Bathory. 211 00:12:12.120 --> 00:12:14.840 You dispel some of the myths, but let's go back 212 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:17.600 to what you knew about her, because you say she's 213 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:22.360 been memorialized, sexualized, and vamporized since records of her trial 214 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:25.840 were discovered in the seventeen twenties, and you say she's 215 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:28.879 the grand Dame of serial killers. So talk about she 216 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:33.200 was born in fifteen sixty, talk about her life, some 217 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:35.879 of the things that shaped her, Talk about as you 218 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.399 do about the peasants, and you talk about at some 219 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:41.879 point where they have even less rights than they did 220 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:44.480 when we open this story. So tell us a little 221 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.960 bit about as you do, about her early life and 222 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:52.080 the society that she was born into and was surrounded. 223 00:12:51.639 --> 00:12:58.120 By great sure so, Urzabet Bathory was born into a 224 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:04.399 very very wealthy, very Hungarian family in fifteen sixty. She 225 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:08.559 was a lucky girl in a way. She was highly educated, 226 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:14.879 just given the best of everything, but she had issues 227 00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:18.080 as a young child, and you know, we can speculate, 228 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:22.679 we don't really know exactly what they were. Some people 229 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.120 think that her parents might have been cousins, so she 230 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:30.639 might have had some sort of I don't know, noble 231 00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:34.080 illness that happens in that way. Some people there are 232 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:38.399 rumors that she had epileptic fits. Of course, none of 233 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:40.440 these are things to turn someone into a serial killer. 234 00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:43.200 But she also seemed to have a penchant for violence. 235 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:46.799 It was a violent time back then, and she would 236 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:49.080 have seen a lot of violence. She probably would have 237 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:53.759 seen some public executions. There's a rumor that she saw 238 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:59.200 a peasant who had been accused of stealing, that she 239 00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:02.399 saw him being sewn alive into the belly of a horse, 240 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:06.399 which is almost worse for the horse, and she laughed 241 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:09.759 and cackled. I mean, you have to be really careful 242 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:14.639 with these things, because it's like it's sort of a hindsight. 243 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:17.279 It's twenty twenty with serial killers type of thing, Like, 244 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:20.759 how do we know she actually cackled diabolically when she 245 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:23.480 saw this peasant being sewn into the belly of a horse. 246 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:26.600 Do we just think that because we know about her 247 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:30.480 later crimes. But there are a lot of there's a 248 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:33.759 lot of rumors in folklore about her early life as 249 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:39.000 kind of troubled and violent, but also very privileged and wealthy. 250 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:43.480 So she got engaged when she was four, No, when 251 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:45.320 she was ten. She got engaged when she was ten 252 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:49.000 to a fifteen year old son of another incredibly wealthy family. 253 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:55.480 So they were like this superstar match. And there's a 254 00:14:55.559 --> 00:15:00.559 rumor that while they were engaged or so, that took 255 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:05.519 a lover this peasant boy and became pregnant by him, 256 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:08.480 and the peasant boy got caught and got thrown to 257 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:13.519 the wolves by her fiance. So it's all very violent stuff, 258 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:16.440 and as you'll see, it's starting to get kind of sexual. 259 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:23.240 So anyway, her fiance was named sarrienk Not not Dusty, 260 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.919 I'm not. I'm not used to saying these names out last, 261 00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:32.039 just writing them. So he was a violent man himself. 262 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:35.279 He was a sort of career warrior and he was 263 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:38.600 constantly going off to battle. So the two of them 264 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:42.440 didn't see each other very much during their during their 265 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:45.600 whole marriage. It took them ten years to have their 266 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.879 first child, which was really unusual for the time. You know, 267 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:52.360 that wasn't that wasn't what a wife was supposed to do. 268 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:58.159 And I hate to keep saying rumor says, but a 269 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:03.919 lot of this is rumor. Rumor has it that her husband, Farreank, 270 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:09.879 would learn torture and just sort of terrible cruel things 271 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:12.919 when he was away at war and would come back 272 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:16.480 and teach these things to his wife, who also who 273 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:20.480 was developing a statistic streak, so he would he would 274 00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:24.320 teach her how to torture her servant girl. He would 275 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:29.320 teach her these very creative punishments where he would cover 276 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:32.720 a girl with honey and force her to stand outside 277 00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:39.039 naked and just get stung by bees and bugs. He 278 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:43.679 also apparently gave her this romantic gift of a glove 279 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:47.879 with claws attached that she could wear and just splash 280 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:52.000 at her servants if the mood struck. So I think 281 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:56.320 we kind of had these two sociopaths who happened to 282 00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:00.080 get married to each other and encouraged each other, and 283 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:03.399 it was kind of their way of bonding because they 284 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:08.839 didn't often see each other. And while all this is happening, 285 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:14.519 they're getting incredibly wealthy because pharrenk is going off and 286 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:18.240 he's fighting Let's see, I think he's fighting the Ottomans, 287 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:21.960 and so he's like sending back these streams of treasure 288 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:25.200 back to or said it. And it turns out that 289 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:27.359 they get so wealthy that the King of Hungary actually 290 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:31.359 has to borrow from them. So they're not only rich, 291 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:36.759 but they're sort of in this very powerful political position 292 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:39.400 where the king is in their debts. So you can 293 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:41.759 sort of imagine how that could go to the head 294 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:46.319 of someone who's already got some sociopathic, narcissistic tendencies. 295 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:52.119 You talk about he is called because of his great 296 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:56.359 valor and his ability to always be in war at war, 297 00:17:56.920 --> 00:17:59.839 he was called the Black Knight. You say that, no 298 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:02.200 matter what, if some of this stuff is exaggerated, you 299 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:05.000 don't get that name the Black Knight for nothing. And 300 00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:07.680 you talk about as well as that there was an 301 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:10.759 unpayable like not only did they borrow money to the 302 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:13.160 king over and over again, it was an unpayable debt 303 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:16.400 when the Black Knight finally died in sixteen oh four. 304 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:19.960 But you talk about that there was some people that 305 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:26.000 moved into the house and Darvolia. They also had this 306 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:28.279 you talk about and again this is some of the 307 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:30.920 stuff that this is why this woman is so infamous. 308 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:34.680 Talk about a torture chamber in this castle that he 309 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:38.079 has given her his wife, and then she has this 310 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:44.160 assistant Darvola. So and also what we haven't explained is 311 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:47.519 how is it that the you know the time, is 312 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:52.160 that the peasants are so dispensable. What is it? As 313 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:54.680 you explain in the book, the status of the peasant 314 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:57.799 enables this person not only to be able to do 315 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:00.599 whatever they want, but literally do whatever they want, no 316 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:02.759 matter what happens. So explain that as you do in 317 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:03.200 the book. 318 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:06.279 Yes, so that is I forgot about that. That's an 319 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:12.160 important thing. So Hungarian peasants back then they just they 320 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:16.000 just had no rights. Nobles had all the rights. So 321 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:20.400 a noble could do whatever they wanted to their their servants. 322 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:24.119 And it wasn't just that the law would look the 323 00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:27.599 other way. It was just totally fine because the peasants 324 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:30.720 are the property of the nobles, and you can do 325 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:32.680 whatever you want your property, said the law. 326 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:38.599 So or so that had all these Lucky Land casino 327 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:41.920 asking people, what's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky. 328 00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:44.720 Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess, ahid my 329 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:46.599 dentist's office more than once. 330 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:48.319 Actually, do I have to say? 331 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:48.720 Yes? 332 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:51.720 You do in the car before my kid's PTA meeting? 333 00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:52.279 Really? 334 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:52.839 Yes? 335 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:55.359 Excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 336 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:56.559 I never win? 337 00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:58.079 And tell well, there you have it. 338 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:00.960 You could get lucky anywhere playing it lucky landslats dot 339 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:02.599 com play for free right now? 340 00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:03.759 Are you feeling lucky? 341 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:08.519 No necessary for eighteen plus sursis plus servant girls. 342 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:11.680 She had several castles. You can imagine the huge staff 343 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:14.480 that it would take to run all those places. And 344 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:16.799 she had all these servant girls, and she had this 345 00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:19.160 one castle in particular that was given to her as 346 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.319 a wedding gift. Now, the torture chambers I don't think 347 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:26.799 started until her husband died and she was in her forties, 348 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:34.440 but the violence was definitely simmering before then. And yeah, 349 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.759 before her husband died, she had this this kind of 350 00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:42.039 I don't know what to call her, this creepy friend 351 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:49.119 slash peasant woman move in named Anna Darvoglia, and the 352 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:52.119 locals of the town really didn't like her. They described 353 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:55.119 her as a wild beast in female form, and she 354 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:58.880 was just a bad influence on Ursabet, and she moved 355 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:03.119 into the castle and the servant, the servants started seeing 356 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:09.839 or Sabbat's personality start to change, and then her husband died. 357 00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:13.440 Should I move on to that time in her life? 358 00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:16.759 Certainly? And you also talk about as well that there's 359 00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:22.240 a not only were the parents finding and knowing that 360 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:25.839 their their peasant daughters, that something was going on at 361 00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:29.039 the castle, at the castle with Pathory, but also that 362 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:34.440 a local pastor had enough guts to confront her. And 363 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:38.880 you say that Nadaski, Nadaski had enough influence to comment 364 00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:41.759 at that time, but it was well known what was 365 00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:44.039 going on, it seemed at this castle. 366 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:53.680 Yes, yeah, the rumors were flying, people were seeing frightening 367 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:57.160 sights like girls with marks on their faces, girls with 368 00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:02.920 black and brewed black and blue body, just these terrified, 369 00:22:04.039 --> 00:22:07.920 abused girls coming in and out of Ursabeth's castle. So yes, 370 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:13.039 a local pastor at one point actually had the goal 371 00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:16.079 and the bravery to pull her aside. And just remember 372 00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:18.960 how powerful she was and how little power a local 373 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:22.920 pastor would have, and he just kind of said, like, listen, 374 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:28.839 you got it. This isn't right. You know, you can't 375 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:30.799 you have to stop doing this, like this isn't right 376 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:33.079 in the eyes of God, and she got really angry 377 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:35.599 and just hissed at him that you know, she was powerful, 378 00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:39.319 she was untouchable. He couldn't do anything. And yeah, her 379 00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:41.680 husband did manage while he was alive to kind of 380 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:48.079 squelch those rumors and keep things under control, but that 381 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:53.359 all ended when he died in sixteen oh four, when 382 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:56.960 Ursabette was forty four years old, and that was one 383 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:00.960 thing started getting really oh go ahead, no, go ahead, 384 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:07.279 I was just gonna say. That's when things started getting terrible, terrible, awful, 385 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:12.440 awful for her servant girls. And that's when you know 386 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:18.359 the rumor in the confessions that the servants who helped 387 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:20.640 her torture, in the confessions that they gave at the 388 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:24.319 end of their life, they say that this is like 389 00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:27.559 a real changing point in her personality. And you know, 390 00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:31.599 maybe it was that her husband was gone and she 391 00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:36.640 suddenly had all this pressure completely on her shoulders to 392 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:39.880 manage all these estates, to manage all these people. You know, 393 00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:45.079 maybe she was mentally cracking in some way. And then 394 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:49.279 there's also speculation that she hated getting older and wanted 395 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:51.599 to stay young forever. I mean, that is mostly just 396 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:56.079 goth rumors, but you know, that's another thing to throw 397 00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:56.640 into the pot. 398 00:23:58.039 --> 00:24:01.319 What you would write about is that she had assembled 399 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:05.240 the virtual torture squad with this Elana Joe, a woman 400 00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:11.200 named dorka wash woman named Cataline, and some young boy 401 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:17.680