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Speaker 6: On this show.
Speaker 2: Hey guys, what is happening and what is hold out
Speaker 2: that glass because we about to fill it up.
Speaker 6: Welcome to the.
Speaker 2: Prometheus lins Podcast, the place with the conversations are always enlightening.
Speaker 2: I am your host, Doc Brown, and here we'd like
Speaker 2: to use the allegory of the Prometheus linbs to take
Speaker 2: a second look at everything. Well, guys, I got a
Speaker 2: good show for you. Guys lined up. I think this
Speaker 2: is gonna be an enlightening conversation. Pun intended. This is
Speaker 2: a friend from across the pond. This is a long
Speaker 2: distance pal. We hooked up through Instagram and I've seen
Speaker 2: him on some of my other friends show like Nick
Speaker 2: from the Occult Rejects, So we kind of got our
Speaker 2: heads together, got our schedules together, and we finally lined
Speaker 2: this thing up. So I'm excited to sit down and
Speaker 2: talk with this gentleman and welcome him for the first
Speaker 2: time and hopefully the first of many, to the Prometheus Lens. Xander, Xander,
Speaker 2: how are you, my friend? And thank you for joining.
Speaker 4: Us, Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 3: Hello everyone listening watching, And as you said, I think
Speaker 3: it will be a great conversation and you know, I'm
Speaker 3: excited to be here with you today.
Speaker 6: Nice.
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate you donating your time to us. That's
Speaker 2: Lab's most valuable assets. You can't get any more time,
Speaker 2: so I am extremely grateful that you chose to donate
Speaker 2: some of your time to us and the listeners today.
Speaker 6: For those that's not stubled across.
Speaker 2: You on Instagram or heard you on another show, just
Speaker 2: kind of introduce.
Speaker 6: Yourself to the audience.
Speaker 2: Let us know a little bit about yourself. What's your
Speaker 2: research books, any kind of information that you want to
Speaker 2: let everybody know to kind of get a feel for
Speaker 2: your brother.
Speaker 3: My name is Alexander Triskevich and I may Polish researcher
Speaker 3: and author, author of Deja Vu has everything already been?
Speaker 4: And actually I wrote this book and you.
Speaker 3: Know, it's say full four hundred plus pages book with
Speaker 3: footnotes and bibliography just at each of seventeen the three
Speaker 3: right now. I also translated it then myself into English
Speaker 3: from Polish of course. And my areas of research of
Speaker 3: interests are you know, the biggest secrets of our past,
Speaker 3: the most remote eras, but also the entire universe, how
Speaker 3: it all works. You know, the truth about the surrounding reality, spirituality, consciousness, metaphysics,
Speaker 3: and you know, everything like that. So this is my
Speaker 3: area right now. I'm also a student at a local
Speaker 3: university here in Poland, and I got even because of
Speaker 3: my research, a private studies graduation.
Speaker 4: That fits me. I did not only study.
Speaker 3: Just casual history, but I have a specialization in the
Speaker 3: Middle East, ancient Middle East, including languages, religions, history and
Speaker 3: languages like ancient Hebrew, which you know I really look
Speaker 3: forward to but in you know, in the future, and
Speaker 3: I also will be. I'm in the process, That's why
Speaker 3: I'm talking about that. I'm in the process of writing
Speaker 3: even my first few reviewed you know, the the mainstream
Speaker 3: and what does you know, not considered it to be
Speaker 3: mainstream and you know, going into the unknown. So I'm
Speaker 3: like on the edge and you mentioned, you know, allegory metaphors,
Speaker 3: and I think this is the thing that it's all about,
Speaker 3: the huge journey going into the unknown and commission connections
Speaker 3: and you know, enlightening the current paradigm and you know,
Speaker 3: enlarging our incredt of preality.
Speaker 6: That's nice, man.
Speaker 2: Then you're gonna go round in pocket here with us
Speaker 2: and what we talk about, what we look into a
Speaker 2: lot of those things are fascinations of mine and the listeners. So, uh,
Speaker 2: I guess just to kind of dive into the thing
Speaker 2: and get our toe in the water. What was your
Speaker 2: I don't know, I guess red peel moment that got
Speaker 2: you you looking into these sort of subjects or was
Speaker 2: this just something that you had as a kid as
Speaker 2: far back as you can remember.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was a very cool moment or
Speaker 3: like type of progress when it comes to my life.
Speaker 3: Because I was always a good student. I didn't need
Speaker 3: to learn much and I was passing all the grades.
Speaker 3: But we had a reform in the educational system and
Speaker 3: because of it, it would be hard for me to
Speaker 3: get into a good high school back then when I
Speaker 3: was like fifteen or fourteen sixteen something like that approximately,
Speaker 3: and in order not to care about you know, anything
Speaker 3: and not to care about degrees, I attended historical competition
Speaker 3: because if you got with this competition a very high place,
Speaker 3: you could just whatever you know high school you want,
Speaker 3: without any need for good degrees.
Speaker 4: So I went there.
Speaker 3: My mom was in the past a historian, I had
Speaker 3: plenty of resources at home. It was easy for me.
Speaker 3: And I think it was in during that time when
Speaker 3: I was learning for this contest competition, because it was
Speaker 3: a very broad and of a very high level competition
Speaker 3: of an entire district here in Poland, and I needed
Speaker 3: to learn, you know, from the academic level when I
Speaker 3: was in the middle high school. So I needed to
Speaker 3: learn not only the history, but from even before prehistory,
Speaker 3: prehistoric times, you know, the first home minutes, how it
Speaker 3: all went, how we evolved into an atomically modern humans,
Speaker 3: then cave and then first settlements and first civilizations up
Speaker 3: until the modern times, like nineteen fifties, nineteen seventies. So
Speaker 3: it was a huge competition for me, and I think
Speaker 3: it was at that time that I started just asking
Speaker 3: basic questions, how do we know it is true? How
Speaker 3: do we know that history happened in this particular way
Speaker 3: that we are being taught. Why why this information that
Speaker 3: I'm being you know, and that I was learning is true?
Speaker 4: How do we know that?
Speaker 3: And I started it was there, digging deeper and deeper,
Speaker 3: you know, I couldn't find any answers to these questions
Speaker 3: within the mainstream para. So I went into other sources,
Speaker 3: like what our ancient ancestores were, you know, talking how
Speaker 3: they described the past, because they were much closer to
Speaker 3: the prehistoric times. And I was, you know, the most
Speaker 3: interested in the oldest, the first civilizations, what was before them?
Speaker 3: How do we know this is? You know, how it
Speaker 3: all started. So this was my journey. And it is
Speaker 3: interesting because it was there that I started my research
Speaker 3: and I published this first book at the age of seventeen.
Speaker 3: And I remember that parallel to this side like it
Speaker 3: was the masculine part, like research, rebellious, you know, asking questions,
Speaker 3: finding answer This was the masculine part of this journey.
Speaker 3: But simultaneously I had, like the feminine part of this journey,
Speaker 3: some kind of even spiritual awakening of some sort, because
Speaker 3: before that, I would say I was an agnostic, maybe
Speaker 3: on a little bit on the atheistic side. That okay,
Speaker 3: I'm not convinced. I wasn't convinced before that there's some
Speaker 3: higher power or anything like God or spirituality. I was
Speaker 3: a rational person, and I remember that. Parallel to that,
Speaker 3: I had like my spiritual awakening, So both the masculine
Speaker 3: evolution and the feminine at the same time, and you know,
Speaker 3: it all started, you know, and it was a huge
Speaker 3: time for me, plenty of things happening all at once,
Speaker 3: both when it comes to my research, both when it
Speaker 3: comes to my personal journey, and also because of my
Speaker 3: personal journey, I went beyond just history and physics into metaphysics, spirituality, philosophy.
Speaker 4: And stuff like that. So this was how it all started.
Speaker 2: So I hear, you're right that your mother was a historian,
Speaker 2: so it's kind of like in your blood.
Speaker 3: My mother wasn't like a very hardcore historian. It was
Speaker 3: like just you know, her job, her profession. But why
Speaker 3: I mentioned that is that because of that, it was
Speaker 3: easy for me because I had plenty of resources already
Speaker 3: at home. So my mom partially, you know, was teaching
Speaker 3: me for this competition. My father is an engineer and
Speaker 3: he always loved watching documentaries on TV. So I would
Speaker 3: say that for even in my childhood, you know, I
Speaker 3: was very well aware of how you know, science works,
Speaker 3: how the universe works. You know, I was very into
Speaker 3: how the nature, how reality works. At history, you know, biology,
Speaker 3: and plenty of stuff like that. You know, we have
Speaker 3: plenty of castles and plenty of medieval architecture here in Poland,
Speaker 3: and my parents were bringing me.
Speaker 4: To these places.
Speaker 3: So I think that, Okay, it started much before when
Speaker 3: it comes to the overall interest, but this was this
Speaker 3: red pill or blackpill time for me, this competition when
Speaker 3: I started, you know, going just beyond what is known
Speaker 3: into the unknown.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's definitely the two key questions I tell people.
Speaker 2: You need to ask on anything, even with me. If
Speaker 2: I'm telling you something and you're watching a show or
Speaker 2: reading my stuff, it's like, now you need to in
Speaker 2: the very least ask you know, who told me that?
Speaker 2: And is it true? You know, you can't just take
Speaker 2: it for gold, because I've known plenty of highly intelligent
Speaker 2: people that give me their theories and outtakes on things,
Speaker 2: and I just believed them because I respected them and
Speaker 2: knew they were smart. But then later when I actually
Speaker 2: took the time to look into it myself, I formed
Speaker 2: a completely different opinion. And it's sometimes it's even to
Speaker 2: the point it's like, dude, this is common sense to me.
Speaker 2: How did this person get their interpretation or miss you
Speaker 2: know what I'm seeing here. So, yeah, it's extremely important
Speaker 2: to look at these things yourself. And I love how
Speaker 2: you mentioned too, just the spiritual side of it, because
Speaker 2: I tell people a lot alternative history, ancient laws, civilizations, conspiracy,
Speaker 2: all these types of subjects lead to spirituality.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, totally agree.
Speaker 2: Well, I know you'd mentioned your book that you had
Speaker 2: wrote when you were seventeen.
Speaker 6: What was the subject on that one?
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is dejah book surfing already Bennett's most about
Speaker 3: lost history, lost civilization. You know, this idea that our
Speaker 3: history is much older, and the title Deja Vu actually
Speaker 3: is about that everything may be cyclical, And at the
Speaker 3: end of my book, I delve also into both physical, metaphysical,
Speaker 3: philosophical spiritual theories you can say about you know, cyclicality
Speaker 3: of nature, cyclicality of history. So but it's mostly like
Speaker 3: eighty percent about history, but you know, I'm also into
Speaker 3: all different topics. But you know, I didn't want to
Speaker 3: include everything just in my book. But the main idea
Speaker 3: is that our history may be much much older than that.
Speaker 3: And I started with, you know, a very interesting question
Speaker 3: first chapter, how long it would take for a civilization
Speaker 3: like ours today to decay? Because this is the biggest question,
Speaker 3: because we can speculate, okay, there was Atlantis ten thousand
Speaker 3: v see or any other kind of civilization, maybe some civilizations.
Speaker 4: Millions of years old.
Speaker 3: But I think the game changer for many people, especially
Speaker 3: for people who are skeptical to this idea of waszations,
Speaker 3: is you know, how old we as an atomically modern
Speaker 3: human have been here on Earth, which is hundreds of
Speaker 3: thousands of years. And we again in the mainstream even news,
Speaker 3: are pushing the dates of anatomically modern humans back and back,
Speaker 3: you know, a few times in the last five to
Speaker 3: ten years. And when you look at that and compare
Speaker 3: it with you know, the decay of decomposition, decay of
Speaker 3: materials of civilizations, you will see, you know, it is
Speaker 3: like the first shift that there is a huge potential
Speaker 3: when it comes to our past if most of the
Speaker 3: things would decay, the compost. Even when it comes to
Speaker 3: such advanced civilization like ours today in jazz. Let's say
Speaker 3: a few thousand years, maybe few tens of thousands of years,
Speaker 3: but still let's say ten thousand years or twenty or fifty.
Speaker 3: Let's say we are very skeptical, very conservative, and looking
Speaker 3: at anatomically modern humans being at least two hundred three
Speaker 3: hundred thousand years old and maybe even older than that,
Speaker 3: and you see that our earth is even and according
Speaker 3: at least too of course the mainstream paradigm older than that,
Speaker 3: you know, by millions of years. You see huge potential
Speaker 3: that there could have been something on Earth before us,
Speaker 3: and we may not be the first ones here, yep.
Speaker 2: And that's something I can agree with you on. I'm
Speaker 2: a Christian, but to some Christians I am a heretic,
Speaker 2: because there's some that are very rigid, and it's like,
Speaker 2: if it's not in this you know thing we call
Speaker 2: a Bible, then it's not true, and all this other
Speaker 2: stuff is lies, you know, tricks from the devil. You
Speaker 2: don't need to be reading these other you know that
Speaker 2: kind of thing. They're really rigid Christians. But me, I'm
Speaker 2: a firm believer, especially the more that I research that
Speaker 2: a lot of this stuff is sicklicker. And even with
Speaker 2: the prophecy, if you're talking about the Bible, so many
Speaker 2: times to the Bible, you'll have a prophecy and you'll
Speaker 2: see it fulfilled, but then you can see it again.
Speaker 2: It's like one of those things that it's like an onion.
Speaker 2: It's got layers and it repeats. And all these civilizations, man,
Speaker 2: I'll talk about if they all have similar stories, there
Speaker 2: has to be a more ancient origin.
Speaker 6: I believe.
Speaker 2: So, like you said, how many cultures across the world
Speaker 2: and time talk about you know, this being like the
Speaker 2: third or fourth world. You know, it was destroyed by
Speaker 2: water and then eventually it's going to be fire. So
Speaker 2: I think that our Bible, you know, according to the scholars,
Speaker 2: earth's only like six to eight thousand years old, but
Speaker 2: I take the opinion of that it was as much older.
Speaker 2: It's just that's the time frame that it recorded. Or
Speaker 2: maybe it's just recording this cycle.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And actually when you know the idea that
Speaker 3: there was something before us, it is connected with the Bible,
Speaker 3: because you know, the biblic call famous flood and that
Speaker 3: there was some kind of world before. Maybe it isn't
Speaker 3: compared to a civilization, but still that there was something
Speaker 3: before the flood, then there was flood or later Christian
Speaker 3: you know historians like Joseph was talking about that there
Speaker 3: will be fire and water cataclysms. Yeah, I totally agree
Speaker 3: right now. Interestingly, because as I've mentioned, I went studying
Speaker 3: jazz lasts so a few months ago, and you know,
Speaker 3: immediately because I was very engaged in these topics, I got,
Speaker 3: you know this, you know, more oriented towards the ancient
Speaker 3: Middle East and no religions and stuff like that, and
Speaker 3: I started already research and my first you know, pure
Speaker 3: paper will be about the flood story connection between Mesopotamia, Bible,
Speaker 3: and India. Maybe probably a few more. We'll see how
Speaker 3: you know, the final thing will turn out to be.
Speaker 3: But you know, I started researching, and you know, people say, oh,
Speaker 3: the Biblical version is the only truth, and as you've said,
Speaker 3: anything except for outside of it is not. But actually
Speaker 3: tons of the things from the Old Testament, especially Genesis,
Speaker 3: are taken from the previous culture. So the same stories
Speaker 3: that God rehash that good change, you know, and put
Speaker 3: into the Biblical narrative. So no Mesopotamius stories are in
Speaker 3: plenty of ways telling us the same story, but maybe
Speaker 3: in different timeframes with different names and stuff like that, like,
Speaker 3: for instance, the flood, the flood already you know, with
Speaker 3: thousands of years before the Bible was written, mentioned in
Speaker 3: the Sumerian epics like Gilgamesh later a Kid and Etra Hazies,
Speaker 3: and even the details like for instance, that Noah sent
Speaker 3: one bird.
Speaker 4: To see if the if there's still is a.
Speaker 3: Flood, and this bird came back, and it meant for
Speaker 3: Noah that, okay, there isn't a safe place for this
Speaker 3: bird to stay, so there is still water, so it's
Speaker 3: not the end of the flood. Then he sent the
Speaker 3: second bird, and the second bird didn't come back to now,
Speaker 3: which meant that there is a safe place and you know,
Speaker 3: the arc can finally stop and the flood is over.
Speaker 3: The same thing is already in the Gilgamaghe but I
Speaker 3: think he sends three birds, not two. But again Gilgamesh,
Speaker 3: he's also sending one bird he isn't coming back, the
Speaker 3: second and then finally one bird he's coming back. But
Speaker 3: then the final bird isn't coming back, which means that
Speaker 3: there is you know, a safe place. The same as
Speaker 3: the description that the arc went onto some kind of
Speaker 3: mountain mountainous areas. So you know, it's not to say
Speaker 3: that you know, anything outside is wrong, because even you know,
Speaker 3: the Bible as we see it right now and as
Speaker 3: we have it in the current form, was inspired by
Speaker 3: this previous thing, and we see plenty of connections.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and I'm a firm believer too that this
Speaker 2: is an ancient story. These people experienced this, That's why
Speaker 2: their stories are all the same and similar. And it's
Speaker 2: just you know, people write down and record their histories
Speaker 2: and legends at various times. And I get some people
Speaker 2: that want to try to throw the ananochy H, the Epica,
Speaker 2: Gilgamesh and some of these stories, uh, the Numa a
Speaker 2: leash and how you see, you know, so many similarities
Speaker 2: with the Bible, and you know, according to you know,
Speaker 2: our carbon dating, which I think is very flawed anyway,
Speaker 2: but they say that these these are much older.
Speaker 6: So they're like, oh, well, your Bible.
Speaker 2: Is just all made up copy you know, copycat stuff.
Speaker 6: It's it's it's bunk.
Speaker 2: And I tell them, I'm like, well, if you go
Speaker 2: with you know, the biblical narrative, it says in Genesis sixth,
Speaker 2: at the time of the flood, it says that the
Speaker 2: angels came down read with the daughters of men, made
Speaker 2: Nephlom giants and gave them the seven sacred scientists sciences
Speaker 2: and made the humanity so wicked. That's why the flood
Speaker 2: had to come. So I tell people, I'm like, uh,
Speaker 2: my interpretation is, yeah, you get these stories that are
Speaker 2: so similar to the Bible, but they kind of paint
Speaker 2: these fallen angels as the good guys, you know, if
Speaker 2: you look at it that way.
Speaker 6: And I tell themselves, like, if you.
Speaker 2: Believe the Bible, it says the angels came down and
Speaker 2: were kicked out of heaven first. So I mean, is
Speaker 2: it out of the question to assume that you would
Speaker 2: get their version first because they were here first.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good connection. You know, the same way.
Speaker 3: For instance, we're often seven sages like in India, seven Rishies,
Speaker 3: seven up calor in Mesopotamia are connected again with bringing
Speaker 3: science after the flat to humanity. So I think it
Speaker 3: is connected to what you said about this sacred sciences,
Speaker 3: you know, the Nephelim the giant, and you see the
Speaker 3: big picture that maybe you know, we don't have one
Speaker 3: hundred percent all connections, but we see so many parallels
Speaker 3: that are beyond you know, any kind of just probability.
Speaker 3: And at the same time, the difference is maypoint that
Speaker 3: you know, some parts at least of these stories were
Speaker 3: independent on each other, that it isn't just a copy
Speaker 3: from the older one.
Speaker 6: M hm.
Speaker 2: You had mentioned Atlantis earlier. Do you actually we believe
Speaker 2: that this was a physical city or civilization, or maybe
Speaker 2: an allegory of the Golden age when God's walked amongst men,
Speaker 2: you know, the pre flood world. What's your take on Atlantis?
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Speaker 3: I don't say that one hundred percent of what Plato
Speaker 3: told us about Atlantis is true, not for sure, and
Speaker 3: I think that he you know, inserted into this story
Speaker 3: plenty of allegories, but we can see that at least
Speaker 3: there is some part to destroy Atlantis, and even maybe
Speaker 3: a bigger part or half of the story that may
Speaker 3: be true. And my opinion is similar to like the
Speaker 3: overall idea of Plato that Atlantis was a prehistoric maritime
Speaker 3: civilization that was just in very very remote eras. And
Speaker 3: I think that even the dating of Atlantis, that it's
Speaker 3: you know, sunk at the end of the last Ice Agent.
Speaker 3: You know, he was very exact about that nine thousand
Speaker 3: years approximately before Solon can show us that, Okay, even
Speaker 3: if we are very skeptical and deny any kind of catastrophism,
Speaker 3: that there was like Ango Dreya's impact hypothesis of some sorts,
Speaker 3: that even you know, basic archaeological and geological facts are
Speaker 3: showing as that from the end of from the end
Speaker 3: of the last Ice Age up until the ancient times,
Speaker 3: the sea level have risen about one hundred and twenty meters,
Speaker 3: which is like a skyscraper. So I think that there
Speaker 3: is true to the Atlantis store and it may be
Speaker 3: it may have been even a very primitive myth of
Speaker 3: some kind of let's say city or some kind of
Speaker 3: settlement being you know, completely washed away by the waters.
Speaker 3: And I don't say that all Atlantis was one hundred
Speaker 3: percent as Plato described, but I think that for sure,
Speaker 3: our history is older, and we have plenty of examples
Speaker 3: of sun can cities, sunken lands, sunken places all over
Speaker 3: the world. And it's funny that right now we are
Speaker 3: being threatened, at least here in Poland that oh, if
Speaker 3: you know, global warning is here and three centimeters there
Speaker 3: would be rise in the sea levels of three centimeters.
Speaker 3: It would completely wash away here Polish cities near the.
Speaker 4: Baltic As Sea.
Speaker 3: And you know, so we are comparing three centimeters to
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty meters.
Speaker 4: So imagine how.
Speaker 3: Even if we know deny any kind of catastrophe, let's
Speaker 3: for a moment be skeptical, we still see huge potential
Speaker 3: for any kind of even prehistoric settlement, maybe not city,
Speaker 3: to be washed away. The same with the Plato's story.
Speaker 3: We see, I think very well, and we can even
Speaker 3: historically to some extent, prove that Atlantis had origins outside
Speaker 3: of Plato and Plato maybe just added some kind of
Speaker 3: his ideas into the story. Because for instance, the way
Speaker 3: that Atlantis story is being presented to us is completely
Speaker 3: different from Greek historiography, so how Greeks viewed the world.
Speaker 3: There is part of Greek historiagiography like the beginning there
Speaker 3: is mentioned of gods, etc. But then it goes into
Speaker 3: chronological different lineages of rulers, which is very specifically not
Speaker 3: Greek historiography. So how Greeks have seen their past, But
Speaker 3: it's Egyptian and Mesopotamian one which may prove us and
Speaker 3: show us that just as Plato is telling us that
Speaker 3: it was so long in the Egyptian city of says.
Speaker 4: Who met people who told him the story.
Speaker 3: That yes, maybe I think there is a huge you know,
Speaker 3: like seventy percent confidence that Atlantis story had its origins
Speaker 3: in Egypt, and we can very well show it.
Speaker 4: For instance, with the king list kings from Egypt.
Speaker 3: They're also color Sumerian famous Kings list, but in Egypt
Speaker 3: there are plenty of lists of kings who are also
Speaker 3: telling us similar you know, because Greeks didn't have, like
Speaker 3: in their vision of their history such you no huge
Speaker 3: time spans like nine thousand years before soln but the
Speaker 3: Egyptians had they said that okay, about thirty six thousand
Speaker 3: years before the first Farioh there were still some kind
Speaker 3: of gods in them and gods ruling Egypt. So I
Speaker 3: think that this vision of how the stur of Atlantis
Speaker 3: unfaults is you know, a combination of Plato's ideas, but
Speaker 3: with these Egyptian origins.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I read that story and they're talking about basically
Speaker 2: they they told him that your civilization is like a
Speaker 2: baby infant, you know, civilization we've seen times and recorded times.
Speaker 2: I think they said, like when the sun rose in
Speaker 2: the west and sat in the east.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yes, totally. I think you know that this
Speaker 3: is the mansion because right now, as I've said, I
Speaker 3: also go a little bit into the academic world with
Speaker 3: this idea. As you know, I'm at least partially accepted,
Speaker 3: you know, to talk, but I need to be critical
Speaker 3: about and when it comes to like, I will be
Speaker 3: publishing papers and so forth. But when it comes to that,
Speaker 3: you know, I want to think from the academic perspective.
Speaker 3: I always wanted to understand why, you know, academics are
Speaker 3: denying any kind of truth in the Atlantis story. They
Speaker 3: said that, Okay, we have no other evidence, but there are,
Speaker 3: for instance, pre Platonic sources talking at least to some
Speaker 3: extent about Atlantis. You know, I don't mention maybe parls
Speaker 3: which are similar stories to the Atlantis story in different cultures.
Speaker 3: But for instance, about one hundred years before Plato in Greece,
Speaker 3: Hellenicus of Lesbus used the same world word as Plato.
Speaker 3: Is the using for Atlantis in ancient Greek is like
Speaker 3: in English Atlantis. He used that one hundred years before Plato,
Speaker 3: and he used that to some extending a different context.
Speaker 3: But he is using that again with a similar mention
Speaker 3: of different lineages of rulers. So maybe he was also trying,
Speaker 3: you know, to present later because it's just a small
Speaker 3: passage that survived from the Hellenicos of Lesbus. So it's
Speaker 3: not that Plato is alone within you know, the academic sources,
Speaker 3: not like controversial ones. No, Atlantis was still before Plato.
Speaker 3: Maybe we haven't found Atlantis in Egypt. We have like
Speaker 3: the at Food Temple text which are unfortunately from after Plato.
Speaker 3: So we cannot say that it was the inspiration because
Speaker 3: maybe the Egyptians were already inspired by Plato they knew
Speaker 3: Plato because it was after the times of Plato. But
Speaker 3: I think that this fact of historiography, as you said,
Speaker 3: they said to so On, Oh, you Greeks are like children,
Speaker 3: because what I've told you that Greeks how they viewed
Speaker 3: history was not like tens of thousands or tas of
Speaker 3: years in the past. They had like a few hundred
Speaker 3: maybe up to a little bit plus minus thousand years
Speaker 3: of the past recorded in there.
Speaker 4: It's called historiography.
Speaker 3: But the Egyptians were recording much older periods like thirty
Speaker 3: twenty thousand years BC. So we see by doing that,
Speaker 3: even from the academic perspective, that there is at least
Speaker 3: a grain of truth in this sense that the Atlantic
Speaker 3: story had its switched in Egypt.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I love those Edwoo building tech stories talking
Speaker 2: about Osiris or no, it's horace how he will basically
Speaker 2: just take time outs from being Varaoh. He was like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get on my boat and I'm going to
Speaker 2: sail and I'm going to civilize the world. And you know,
Speaker 2: it kind of blew my mind because I thought it
Speaker 2: kind of landed up pretty good with all the other
Speaker 2: stories like South America, Peru. They talk about you know
Speaker 2: cats a Quardo and Varico. How you know he arrived
Speaker 2: on this bed of serpents without paddles from the east,
Speaker 2: you know, if he was coming from Egypt, that's you know,
Speaker 2: coming from the east on a boat, and he civilized
Speaker 2: South America and you just have so many, you know,
Speaker 2: similar stories.
Speaker 4: I spoke with mankind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh so it's like these this group of
Speaker 2: people that were considered gods or maybe they were just
Speaker 2: really highly advanced people that they considered to be gods,
Speaker 2: showed up and civilized all these different worlds after this
Speaker 2: great cataclysm. But I had Freddy Silva on the show
Speaker 2: not that long ago, and he's not a Christian, but
Speaker 2: he's got a lot of great ideas and I love
Speaker 2: how his mind works. But he was talking about that.
Speaker 2: He mentioned the ad food building texts, and he said
Speaker 2: that he basically believed that there was like this island
Speaker 2: or city kind of like Atlantis where these quote unquote
Speaker 2: gods lived and they asked layd themselves from humanity why
Speaker 2: they didn't corrupt them or affect them. But when this
Speaker 2: great cataclysm happened, they had to basically share their knowledge
Speaker 2: and jumpstart civilization.
Speaker 6: So all these stories.
Speaker 2: You hear, he thought that you know, Osairous was like
Speaker 2: a member or who, yeah, even of this family and
Speaker 2: it was just you know, the same story, but it
Speaker 2: was the same group of people. But yeah, not the
Speaker 2: same person.
Speaker 4: Yes, I totally agree.
Speaker 3: You know, this story of teachers of mankind connected either
Speaker 3: you know, with some kinds of gods or cataclysm is.
Speaker 3: You know, all can be found all over the world,
Speaker 3: even you mentioned in Osiris. In later texts Plutarchs on
Speaker 3: Isis and Osiris, there's a cool description that Osiris went
Speaker 3: traveling all over the world, not to a single place,
Speaker 3: but all over the world, and he met along his
Speaker 3: journey primitive people like hunter gatherers. They were even you know,
Speaker 3: cannibals to some extent, and he taught them the basic
Speaker 3: of you know, living in society and not killing each other,
Speaker 3: loving each other. You know, he civilized them. So again
Speaker 3: you mentioned Osiris when it comes to the yet Food texts,
Speaker 3: the yet Food texts are even speaking to us about
Speaker 3: two cataclysms of this, you know, premordial island of the gods.
Speaker 3: You know, even in not the at food texts, because
Speaker 3: at Food texts have just as plenty of other esoteric
Speaker 3: texts like esoteric meaning hidden meaning and exoteric meaning like
Speaker 3: the meaning you know, just as for instance a parable
Speaker 3: or just history. And there you know, it's not only
Speaker 3: at food texts that are speaking to us when it
Speaker 3: comes to the Egyptian knowledge about some kind of island
Speaker 3: of the gods that sunk, but you know, just cosmology
Speaker 3: of the Egyptian was that there was you know, primeval
Speaker 3: mound from which you know, gods came and you know,
Speaker 3: all everything in the world started. But on the cosmological
Speaker 3: level of the entire universe, like the universe is this
Speaker 3: vast chaos, the infinite waters, and then the first primeval mound,
Speaker 3: the pyramid were actually you know the representation of this
Speaker 3: primeval mound, and you know from the sperival mound everything
Speaker 3: came about. So this is you know, the deeper meaning
Speaker 3: that it is on a cosmological level, but it was
Speaker 3: also probably on physical level that there was some kind
Speaker 3: of island of the gods and you know it sunk.
Speaker 3: I think even at food text it's mentioned that it
Speaker 3: sunk twice. And what is very important is that this
Speaker 3: island was I think called island of reeds, so you
Speaker 3: know reeds and the same kind of idea of an
Speaker 3: island of reeds can be found in the Aztec mythology.
Speaker 4: That there was also this.
Speaker 3: Kind of or in Mesoamerican myths altogether, that there was
Speaker 3: this kind of island of reeds. And what is also
Speaker 3: I think interesting in this connection if you want to know,
Speaker 3: just to maybe loosely first, but then you know, look
Speaker 3: at the evidence connect these stories with Atlantis, is you know,
Speaker 3: how Atlantis looked like. According to Plato, there was a mound,
Speaker 3: you know, a hill in the middle of Atlantis on
Speaker 3: which there was the temple of Poseidon.
Speaker 4: And you know, in the yet.
Speaker 3: Food techs and the Egyptian cosmologists there was you know,
Speaker 3: this primeval mounds, so let's say, like a pyramid shaped
Speaker 3: thing or a mount shaped thing in the middle, and
Speaker 3: it was again an island, just as in the case
Speaker 3: of Plato. In the Mesoamerican and again going back, there
Speaker 3: was a city called Stenochtitlan, which was a latest city.
Speaker 4: You know, when the conquistadors came.
Speaker 3: People were living there, but people, you know Native Americans
Speaker 3: who are living there told them the story that Tenochtitlan
Speaker 3: was based on their previous land called Atstland, and you
Speaker 3: know that it was like a copy that in the
Speaker 3: past there was an ads Lan land that sang and
Speaker 3: from them the people came to Mesoamerica and the Mesoamerica
Speaker 3: later they built it tench Titlan and you know how
Speaker 3: to notch Tittlan looked like I think it's again a
Speaker 3: model of Atlantis. And it may further point that you know,
Speaker 3: at Asan and Atlantis are not just similar, you know,
Speaker 3: names themselves, but it may be the same story because
Speaker 3: tenach Tittan was on the Lake Texcoco in Mexico, so
Speaker 3: on a lake, and it was you know, a connection
Speaker 3: of natural and artificial islands connected by bridges. And Plato
Speaker 3: when it comes to Atlantis is telling us that again
Speaker 3: Atlantis had this mound in the middle with the temple
Speaker 3: of Poseidon and then around concentric rings of you know,
Speaker 3: water land water land, so similar, you know, artificial islands
Speaker 3: connected with each other by bridges. And in Teenochtitlan, which
Speaker 3: I think was a model of this previous land of Atlan,
Speaker 3: Atlantis again in the middle they built you know how,
Speaker 3: you know, Mesoamerican pyramits ver often look like that. There
Speaker 3: are just like pyramits in Egypt, but on top they
Speaker 3: are having some kind of chapel or something, you know,
Speaker 3: they aren't like pyramits in Giza, but they are coming
Speaker 3: like that. Then there are flat at the top and
Speaker 3: then there is like a small chapel on the top
Speaker 3: of them. And I think that this is a representation
Speaker 3: of this primeval hill, primeval mound, on which there was
Speaker 3: this temple of Poseidon, according to Plato. And that's why
Speaker 3: they haven't built pyramits jazz, you know, with the top
Speaker 3: being triangular. But they created you know, okay, artificial mount
Speaker 3: and even the Mayan pyramits are often not like pyramits
Speaker 3: with you know, four sides, but they are like artificial
Speaker 3: huge mounds built out of you know, stone, and then
Speaker 3: on top there are chapels some kind you know, or
Speaker 3: buildings on top of that. And I think that it
Speaker 3: is a representation like if they wanted to model their
Speaker 3: at Atlantis, and if it was like Plato is describing us,
Speaker 3: or like Egyptians are describing as that there was dismount
Speaker 3: on which there was the temple. So maybe okay, they
Speaker 3: built not Stutlan on the slake Texcoco. They created you know,
Speaker 3: these artificial islands which were similar to Atlantis, but maybe
Speaker 3: there wasn't a hill in the middle, so they created
Speaker 3: to model that an artificial hill in this you know,
Speaker 3: great Pyramt, which was called Templo mayorso you know, the
Speaker 3: Grand Temple. So I think that these connections are beyond
Speaker 3: just you know, coincidences, and I think that they point
Speaker 3: that at least in the idea of the ancients, from
Speaker 3: plenty of regions of the ancient world, there was this
Speaker 3: idea that, okay, primeval land has like a hill and
Speaker 3: on top of this hill there is this chapel or
Speaker 3: you know, temple, and that's how it looked like.
Speaker 2: That's what I didn't make that connection that that is
Speaker 2: pretty pretty blatant. You had mentioned that previously that you
Speaker 2: believe that Plato was talking about something physical, but maybe
Speaker 2: he had woven some allegory into this story. With you
Speaker 2: studying this, what in your opinion is the allegorical part.
Speaker 2: What do you see when you read it that you
Speaker 2: think he's kind of weaving in some meta narratives in there.
Speaker 3: The first one could be, but I don't think it's
Speaker 3: one hundred percent true. You know, I'm on the fence
Speaker 3: with that the introduction before we have different lineages of kings,
Speaker 3: this thing that okay, the gods, you know, took different
Speaker 3: parts of the world. There was Poseidon and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: I think this may be connected again if we are
Speaker 3: talking about you know, I wanted to how academics are
Speaker 3: looking at myths and texts like that.
Speaker 4: And it is a.
Speaker 3: Basic ancient Greek thing that if there was something important,
Speaker 3: like important texts, important.
Speaker 4: Description, you always started with the gods.
Speaker 3: But it wasn't that it is true that these gods
Speaker 3: existed and ruled. No, it was you know, jazz because
Speaker 3: you know, these probably things were being talked, you know, publicly.
Speaker 3: You know, it was like, okay, right now, you need
Speaker 3: to listen because it's important if we start talking about
Speaker 3: the gods. It's like in books, we often start the
Speaker 3: first chapter with this big letter, so it's similar, you know,
Speaker 3: in this speaking story. Okay, if we start with God,
Speaker 3: it means it's very important. So I think this was
Speaker 3: probably the addition of Plato, but maybe no again reinterpretation
Speaker 3: of his because maybe there was some kind of this
Speaker 3: idea that God's ruled the different parts of the world.
Speaker 3: Why not, you know, But I think this may be
Speaker 3: this one of things added the same time, A little
Speaker 3: bit skeptical, but I again see a possibility that it
Speaker 3: was completely true that Atlantis sunk during a single night
Speaker 3: and day.
Speaker 4: The same that Plato dialogue.
Speaker 3: I think it's critics, Yeah, Cretias ends abruptly with this
Speaker 3: fall of Atlantis. You know, it's a mystery. Most of
Speaker 3: the people skeptics say, oh, it's a you know, literature
Speaker 3: thing that you end abruptly, you know, with this cliffhanger,
Speaker 3: that Atlantis sunk during a single night and day. But
Speaker 3: maybe like that, I see it's a good explanation. But maybe,
Speaker 3: you know, we do not have any kind of what
Speaker 3: was later being added. Maybe someone erased that later on.
Speaker 3: We do not know much, or maybe you know, and
Speaker 3: if it was truly a just literary literature thing, you know,
Speaker 3: fiction thing, that may be, you know, addition of Plato,
Speaker 3: you know, to show if he shows emphasis, that he
Speaker 3: ends the dialog there and you know, abruptly without an explanation.
Speaker 3: It may be also that Atlantis singing sinking in a
Speaker 3: single night, and they may also be a metaphor. So
Speaker 3: I see that that and I also see the wickedness
Speaker 3: of humanity as being the cause of the fall of Atlantis.
Speaker 3: But again it's similar, for instance, to the fall in
Speaker 3: the Bible. It's similar to other mentions, like even the
Speaker 3: Hindu idea of the Cali Yuga. And you guys, you
Speaker 3: know that people are becoming less spiritual more animalistic. Plato
Speaker 3: is telling us that people at people at Atlants were
Speaker 3: not only greedy conquering different lands, but they also started
Speaker 3: being like animals.
Speaker 4: So I see it.
Speaker 3: It may be a metaphor, but it also may be
Speaker 3: to some extent truth if we believe in like something spiritual.
Speaker 3: So I see these as possibilities of what Plato added
Speaker 3: the same, you know, with exact dimensions that it was
Speaker 3: like that, like that, because plenty of people are interpreting
Speaker 3: dimensions showed by Plato. When it comes to atlant it's
Speaker 3: as metaphorical different numbers that you know, these numbers were
Speaker 3: not ideal and they represented fall or something. So I
Speaker 3: think that Plato added something, but I think that the
Speaker 3: core of the story is there, and I can you know,
Speaker 3: we can compare it with other Plato's that like, I
Speaker 3: think in Fato, he's telling us about the Egyptian god
Speaker 3: of wisdom tooth that when Tooth introduced hieroglyphic inscriptions to
Speaker 3: the people's people started, you know, losing memory because they
Speaker 3: started writing things down and they didn't need to memorize
Speaker 3: everything because they could write things down. And I see that,
Speaker 3: you know, if we compare it with mythology of the Egyptians,
Speaker 3: we see that, Yeah, God of wisdom, Tooth was mentioned
Speaker 3: in Egypt to introduce the hieroglyphic inscriptions, but probably Plato
Speaker 3: added that it led to a memory loss in people.
Speaker 3: So it's the same of Atlantis that he bases his
Speaker 3: claims on true story, but interprets them just as we can,
Speaker 3: you know, interpret the Bible, interpret the fall the flood,
Speaker 3: if it happened or not.
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Speaker 2: to tell a lot of people because a lot of
Speaker 2: people are speaking absolutes, and I'm like, man, there's very
Speaker 2: few absolutes. You know, you can come out and say,
Speaker 2: you know, I believe this, or a I've researched and
Speaker 2: this is what it draws me to this, you know,
Speaker 2: hypothesis or conclusion, because if we're being honest, even the
Speaker 2: smartest and most studied people in the world are giving
Speaker 2: educated guesses.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I do not claim too to know the exact tri
Speaker 3: I show you, Okay, this is possible, this is possible,
Speaker 3: and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: And one thing I found interesting when reading that and
Speaker 2: studying and I've not like took deep dives. I just
Speaker 2: kind of looked at, you know, thirty thousand foot view
Speaker 2: and seen some other people talking about some things and
Speaker 2: their ideas. But I was one of those that believed
Speaker 2: that it was like an allegory of the pre flood world,
Speaker 2: you know, the wickedness of man when God's walked amongst
Speaker 2: men and the great reset, you know, the flo blood,
Speaker 2: you know, coming and wiping out civilization. I thought that
Speaker 2: was like another retelling, you know, of Genesis six.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: But when I was looking into that, some things I
Speaker 2: found interesting was there was ten kings and they were
Speaker 2: the sons of Poseidon. So here you have what the
Speaker 2: Bible would refer to as nepheline hybrid beings. They ruled
Speaker 2: over humanity, and they divided up the realm amongst themselves
Speaker 2: to rule. So you kind of had like this divine
Speaker 2: council at Atlantis. So I think that's kind of like
Speaker 2: the you know, the Bible, the Divine Council. And I
Speaker 2: see a lot of imagery of Bible too. A lot
Speaker 2: of people get hung up and just say, oh, that's
Speaker 2: when you know, they built this tile building and God
Speaker 2: divided the languages. But when you get into Deuteronomy thirty two.
Speaker 2: That's a retelling of that story, and it says that
Speaker 2: not only were the tongues divided, it says the peoples
Speaker 2: the nations were divided amongst the sons of God. And
Speaker 2: that's where God calls out Abraham, you know, he says,
Speaker 2: this is my a lot of inheritance. These are my people.
Speaker 2: You can have the rest of them. And I think
Speaker 2: we kind of see some mirrored images of that right there.
Speaker 2: But with Bible and the dividing of the nations and
Speaker 2: also the ten the ten kings, you see that I'm
Speaker 2: trying to think as ten symbolically as a set, you know,
Speaker 2: a whole number.
Speaker 6: It's like totality.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And the Book of Revelation talks about the end times.
Speaker 2: It's a return of the Golden Age in Atlantis, I think,
Speaker 2: because it talks about the dragon with the ten horns.
Speaker 2: You know, that's the ten authorities you know, over the nations.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like a return of the Golden Age,
Speaker 2: so to speak.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this idea was you know in most of the
Speaker 3: occult literature through out the centuries, you know, exposed that
Speaker 3: you know, there will be coming back to this age
Speaker 3: of Atlantis, you know, the New Atlantis, you know, Bacon
Speaker 3: and others. Even I see this symbology in you know,
Speaker 3: the founding of the United States, the Washington you know,
Speaker 3: everything is you know accult and everything you know, it's
Speaker 3: astrological to some extent, all of this symbology. It is,
Speaker 3: you know, I think meant to do that. The same
Speaker 3: with you know the famous on the back of the
Speaker 3: one dollar bill with this famous pyramit with the all
Speaker 3: seeing I there is no this permit all saying I
Speaker 3: at the top, which you know may be connected to
Speaker 3: this idea of you know, enlightened man or something new
Speaker 3: world or something, and you see at the bottom doers
Speaker 3: of course, the date of the founding, you know, seventeen
Speaker 3: seventy six. And then you see different steps. And I
Speaker 3: see plenty of interpretations of these steps, for instance with
Speaker 3: Mayan calendar and others that these steps you know, are
Speaker 3: like counting the day is still the you know, new
Speaker 3: world order, or you know, the coming back to Atlantis,
Speaker 3: and plenty you know of educated plenty of maybe some
Speaker 3: people call them geniuses. Throughout the centuries, both in Renaissance
Speaker 3: and later on, you know, believed in this idea of
Speaker 3: coming back to the Atlantis. So I think that there
Speaker 3: is something going under the same we talked about, you know, cyclicality.
Speaker 3: You know in India and plenty of other regions it's
Speaker 3: all cyclical. You know, there's coming back always to even
Speaker 3: this Golden Age.
Speaker 6: Yeah, especially like in America.
Speaker 2: You have so much talk now with Donald Trump, but
Speaker 2: that's something he just keeps saying, you know, it's going
Speaker 2: to be a Golden age or return of the Golden Age.
Speaker 2: And if I'm not mistaken, what isn't there thirteen steps
Speaker 2: on that pyramid?
Speaker 4: I think so?
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think if I remember correctly, it was
Speaker 3: you know, the Golden Age between or it was first
Speaker 3: interpreted as twenty twelve, and you know it was really
Speaker 3: you know cool, but then twenty twelve happened, and right
Speaker 3: now I think people say it's twenty thirty two, similar
Speaker 3: to this conspiracy theories like and you were Order twenty
Speaker 3: thirty agenda, you were in Europe twenty thirty So these
Speaker 3: steps should you no point to this if we accept
Speaker 3: that they are you know, counting the Mayan cycles like
Speaker 3: I think cartoons or something like that.
Speaker 2: Which honestly, yeah, you know, things are never what we
Speaker 2: think that they are.
Speaker 6: You know, even like.
Speaker 2: If you like US an American context, it's like if
Speaker 2: you always wanted to go to Disney World. In your mind,
Speaker 2: it's so much bigger, you know, so much more grand,
Speaker 2: and then when you go, yeah, you might enjoy it,
Speaker 2: but it didn't meet the expectations that you had in
Speaker 2: your head. And that happens a lot, even like with
Speaker 2: the Biblical text, they thought their Messiah was coming and
Speaker 2: going to be this conquering king and freedom from Rome,
Speaker 2: you know, but he showed up, but he freed them,
Speaker 2: but he freed them from the principality of Satan and
Speaker 2: conquering death instead. So it was a metaphysical thing, but
Speaker 2: they were looking at something they thought it was going
Speaker 2: to be just more grand. I think that's the same
Speaker 2: with the twenty twelve my encolendar, because yeah, that was
Speaker 2: a big deal. You know, I'm forty one, so I
Speaker 2: remember when that was rolling around. I was old enough
Speaker 2: to you know, hear what people were saying and talking
Speaker 2: about it. But now looking back, a lot of people
Speaker 2: that I talked to in this space, you know, spirituality, conspiracy,
Speaker 2: alternative history, all these kinds of things. A large percent
Speaker 2: and myself included had like their you know, I hate
Speaker 2: to use a new Age term, but like their awakening.
Speaker 2: Their red pill moment was in twenty twelve. Man, it
Speaker 2: was like there was a light switch that went off
Speaker 2: and just turned a lot of people's eyes on.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think you mentioned that, you know, this
Speaker 3: idea that people thought, oh, this, this would be something great,
Speaker 3: and it turned out to be, you know, on the
Speaker 3: metaphysical level. And I think that the Golden Age is
Speaker 3: truly about about or mostly about metaphysics, not like you know,
Speaker 3: heaven on Earth like physical one, you know, or everything.
Speaker 4: Golden Age that.
Speaker 3: You know are always good in plenty of you know,
Speaker 3: regions and plenty of traditions, like the famous Hindu you gas,
Speaker 3: they are mostly talking that these you gas, discycles of
Speaker 3: time are connected not with like material stuff, but with spirituality.
Speaker 3: That in the greatest age, the Golden Age Creta sat Yayoga,
Speaker 3: there is full spirituality and they there is a metaphor
Speaker 3: of cows standing on four legs, so full spirituality one
Speaker 3: hundred percent. And this is you know, the famous era
Speaker 3: of Mahabarata and other kind of you know texts which
Speaker 3: are talking about people talking just thelepathically people who are
Speaker 3: blind physically seeing something through what we would call today
Speaker 3: remote viewing and stuff like that too, so the spirituality
Speaker 3: is full. Then comes the second era, also a pretty
Speaker 3: good one, but the cow stands on three out of
Speaker 3: four legs, so seventy five percent spirituality. Then Bara yoga
Speaker 3: have only fifty percent, and the Caliuga, which is interesting,
Speaker 3: is again mentioned as the most materialistic and the darkist
Speaker 3: of the ages. But still there's twenty five percent of spirituality.
Speaker 3: So it means that you know, we never are completely
Speaker 3: you know, okay, we're living in dark age. There is
Speaker 3: no spirituality, either age of Satan or something like that. No,
Speaker 3: it is always mentioned that, you know, in this yugas
Speaker 3: I very often call them based on Mahabarata especially, it's
Speaker 3: a great source for that, that this is some kind
Speaker 3: of instructions manu, while you know, on like metaphysical view
Speaker 3: of the earth cycles. But it's mentioned that it doesn't
Speaker 3: mean that, you know, we are doomed to be in
Speaker 3: this epoch. So it's bad, No, it's just our personal choice.
Speaker 3: It may be harder to be spiritual in caliyoga, but
Speaker 3: there is still like twenty five percent of spirituality.
Speaker 4: But it will be harder.
Speaker 3: There would be more let's say, distractions from you know,
Speaker 3: our own spiritual journey. And you know, in the Krita
Speaker 3: Golden Nasa Teyoga, it's so spiritual that you have no distractions.
Speaker 3: So you know, it's very easy for you. It's like
Speaker 3: you know, different levels of the game. Okay, this is
Speaker 3: very hard, you know for you to undergo personal journey.
Speaker 3: This is you know, an easier one, and it doesn't
Speaker 3: mean that one is better than the other. Maybe you know,
Speaker 3: it's better for us to be in this hard one
Speaker 3: because again maybe to some extent we may awaken, you know,
Speaker 3: our spirituality and completely change everything. So I think it's
Speaker 3: connected to what you've talked about that it's on the
Speaker 3: metaphysical level.
Speaker 4: Not you know that we're like kingdom or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm affirmly not only with scripture, with a lot
Speaker 2: of stuff. It's I said it earlier, but I'll say
Speaker 2: it again. It's like onion. You know, there's many layers
Speaker 2: to things, and.
Speaker 6: The more diving and.
Speaker 2: I find, you know, physical and literal, but they know
Speaker 2: on a you know, like a micro narrative, you know,
Speaker 2: woven inside of it is this other you know, alternative
Speaker 2: meeting and on a spiritual level, and especially with the
Speaker 2: with the Bible, because I tell people a lot of
Speaker 2: times they're you know, extreme literalists, and I'm like, you know,
Speaker 2: and I pitched. I'm like, yeah, you know, I believe that,
Speaker 2: but also I see this, this and this or whatever. Uh,
Speaker 2: And I just tell him, I'm like, if you proclaim
Speaker 2: to believe in a divine architect, a creator of the world,
Speaker 2: you know, the universe and all this stuff, how uh,
Speaker 2: what's the word I'm looking for? How ignorant could you
Speaker 2: be to think that this is just plain Jane for
Speaker 2: me to read and you know it's just it's literal,
Speaker 2: like stereo instructions. Well, you're talking about, you know, the
Speaker 2: supreme being. You know, you don't think that his word
Speaker 2: is going to be multi dimensional and speak and reveal
Speaker 2: things to certain people with different perspectives and speak to
Speaker 2: them like a like a living document. I think that's
Speaker 2: kind of ignorant in my opinion.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And it was interesting again that I was
Speaker 3: really always into you know, ancient religions as I wanted,
Speaker 3: you know, to see you know, how spirituality evolved, because
Speaker 3: again Maysure is telling us oh, spirituality is just evolutionary
Speaker 3: thing for us to have, like internal hope and not
Speaker 3: to kill ourselves and you know, to a bigger evolutionarily.
Speaker 3: But what I found out is actually that most of
Speaker 3: the most ancient religions, like the Egyptians, like the Sumerian
Speaker 3: to some extent, like the Indian one, if you truly
Speaker 3: analyze their spiritual literature, we will see that there is
Speaker 3: always this idea of this primeval god, the source or
Speaker 3: something like that. Because plenty of people believe, Oh, Egyptians
Speaker 3: and others were so primitive, believing in all of these
Speaker 3: gods personified.
Speaker 4: Et cetera.
Speaker 3: But if you see at the Egyptian cosmology, they had this,
Speaker 3: you know, true creator of everything before the gods. For instance,
Speaker 3: in the Helio Polytian version of this.
Speaker 4: Story, it is Atum.
Speaker 3: And what is very important is that Atum is again
Speaker 3: this idea of a god creator that is, you know,
Speaker 3: beyond anything let's say material, and you know, beyond any
Speaker 3: kind of even human understanding, because Atem, in comparison to
Speaker 3: other Egyptian gods, was not in this version at least,
Speaker 3: it was said that you cannot you know, describe and
Speaker 3: you cannot you know, show how he looks like what
Speaker 3: it is because you know it is you know, the source,
Speaker 3: this is the true God beyond you know, before even
Speaker 3: I would say material realm, before you know, any kind
Speaker 3: of form, when you know there was just you know, unity, formless,
Speaker 3: void or something similar to the Hindu Brahman, not Brakhman,
Speaker 3: but Brahman. You know, it's often called by them the
Speaker 3: primeval consciousness of everything that you know, everything goes out
Speaker 3: of the Brakhman and comes back to this Brahman and
Speaker 3: you know it's something like on the primeval level, and
Speaker 3: you know, it completely shutters. In my opinion, this belief system,
Speaker 3: that of the evolution of religions you know from Shaman
Speaker 3: is okay. But then you know, polities, okay, people were
Speaker 3: so stupid they thought there were plenty of gods and
Speaker 3: then finally they have they had any eureka.
Speaker 4: That okay, but who created the gods?
Speaker 3: We need a you know, single god, and that's how
Speaker 3: Montheistic religion happened. No, it's a different story if you
Speaker 3: analyze you know, in the ancient texts, and I see
Speaker 3: that you know, this version of that there is one
Speaker 3: true God is prevalent, and you know most of these
Speaker 3: ancient at least cultures that I've studied, that there is
Speaker 3: some kind of you know, creator at the source of everything,
Speaker 3: and the other gods are just you know, secondary entities,
Speaker 3: maybe you know, higher than human beings, but again there
Speaker 3: are not like on the same level.
Speaker 2: M Yeah, And once again all the similar stories that
Speaker 2: you got of you know, the demi gods, you know,
Speaker 2: or the parent gods. You have certain gods that create
Speaker 2: and everything, and then they make some offspring. Then that
Speaker 2: offspring rebels and overthrows the parent gods and the rise
Speaker 2: of the new pantheon. You see that a lot in
Speaker 2: many legionds meet those religions, whatever title that you want
Speaker 2: to put on it. But man, I can't wait to
Speaker 2: get you back on the dive in the smell subjects
Speaker 2: because you're kind of like me, you know, bits and
Speaker 2: stuff of a lot of different subjects. So I can
Speaker 2: see several conversations us having in the future. But with
Speaker 2: you diving into all these different subjects and things I
Speaker 2: know you'd said at the beginning, more often than not,
Speaker 2: when you search these things out, you find out that
Speaker 2: either academia is completely wrong or they're completely gatekeeping and
Speaker 2: lying and offfuscating the truths, but either way you find
Speaker 2: that it's not as.
Speaker 6: You were told.
Speaker 2: With all of your research, is there one thing that
Speaker 2: stands out the most to you that just blew your
Speaker 2: mind like you could never have believed that they were
Speaker 2: wrong or what a lie about this? And you figured
Speaker 2: it out and kind of like a I don't know,
Speaker 2: I refer to it as like a skeleton key. When
Speaker 2: you find this thing, man, it just blows your mind.
Speaker 2: It changes your paradigm on pretty much everything. Have you
Speaker 2: had one of those moment much?
Speaker 3: I think during this journey when I was parallel to
Speaker 3: my research having Again, I also do not like all
Speaker 3: the you know how you described like spiritual awakening, but
Speaker 3: you know like inner you know journey, inner awakening of
Speaker 3: you know, something more inside of me. But I could
Speaker 3: say one moment for me that was, you know, paradigm shifting.
Speaker 3: But I also have I think that can be paradigm
Speaker 3: shifting for other people and for the future of you know,
Speaker 3: science of research and everything. For my when it comes
Speaker 3: to my own personal life, that was what was most
Speaker 3: you know, paradigm shifting. Was that from the very early
Speaker 3: HA was mostly an atheist or agnostic, maybe with a
Speaker 3: little bit of atheistic side.
Speaker 4: So I didn't.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen, you know, anything that was convincing me
Speaker 3: that there is higher power or something. But when again
Speaker 3: I started having this spiritual journey, I started, you know,
Speaker 3: having dreams, you know, prophetic dreams, but not in a
Speaker 3: sense prophetic that they were big ones like lotterisic hambers
Speaker 3: or like who who I will marry or something.
Speaker 6: No, everybody won't that lottery dream, don't they.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but prophetic that you know, they were about the future,
Speaker 3: and it was you know, crazy coincidences. And I think
Speaker 3: this was the most mind you know, this was the
Speaker 3: biggest shift in my life that completely you know, wrecked
Speaker 3: any kind of disbelief in the spiritual.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: After these experiences, I you know, I am convinced a
Speaker 3: hu do person that there is much more to you know,
Speaker 3: this reality than just material stuff, that there is some
Speaker 3: kind of you know, higher things spiritual. And it started
Speaker 3: again when I was atheistic. Okay, evolution, we are just
Speaker 3: human machines.
Speaker 4: Et cetera.
Speaker 3: And you know, these were just you know, basic dreams, Okay,
Speaker 3: a dream of speaking to a colleague from my class,
Speaker 3: but you know, very vivid in a particular environment and
Speaker 3: he's speaking to me about something I don't know even
Speaker 3: about about, you know, like future exam two months or
Speaker 3: a month later. So I was okay, just a dream,
Speaker 3: nothing crazy. But then I had like this day jevu.
Speaker 3: That's why, you know, DejaVu is called my book about
Speaker 3: you know, cyclicality of everything. But I was starting having
Speaker 3: I started having deja voo's that wait a second, you know,
Speaker 3: I started everything, you know, with all the details that
Speaker 3: was in my dreams before a week, two weeks or
Speaker 3: a month before started happening in real life, you know.
Speaker 3: But these were so minor things that were completely unnecessary
Speaker 3: for me to know.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: These weren't like big things about some kind of decisions now,
Speaker 3: but I think these were like signs for me that,
Speaker 3: you know, I should wake up that there is much
Speaker 3: more to this reality that you know, if it was
Speaker 3: it were completely things that you couldn't explain that oh
Speaker 3: it was my mind projecting, And then it happened similarly,
Speaker 3: so I felt deja vu. No, it were the exact
Speaker 3: details that I couldn't have known before, you know, during
Speaker 3: the time I was dreaming about it, because for instance,
Speaker 3: it was about an exam in the future which we
Speaker 3: even didn't start learning for you know.
Speaker 4: Topic that I never heard about.
Speaker 3: And I had the dream and you know the setup,
Speaker 3: It was everything even you know, the alignment, you know,
Speaker 3: for instance, I was in this direction and you know,
Speaker 3: everything the same, and you know, but the biggest of
Speaker 3: these was like meeting a person I never met before,
Speaker 3: like having dream of this person that okay, this is
Speaker 3: a person and he was very specifically looking, he was tall,
Speaker 3: he was having crazy hair. And I had a dream
Speaker 3: that this is a relative of a person I barely know,
Speaker 3: like from class. But I barely know this person. But
Speaker 3: this person, this relative of this person, was no way
Speaker 3: like looking similar to the person I knew, like colleague
Speaker 3: of the class that I almost didn't know, not anything about.
Speaker 3: And then I met this person without my colleague, you know,
Speaker 3: and it was crazy, you know, and I said, wait,
Speaker 3: this is the same person. And it was doing a
Speaker 3: school event in which we had to go with our
Speaker 3: relatives to school.
Speaker 4: To sign some papers.
Speaker 3: And I remember seeing this person alone without my colleague,
Speaker 3: but I said, wait a minute, it's this person from
Speaker 3: my dream. I never you know, even thought this person
Speaker 3: was not looking alike my friend, so you know, maybe
Speaker 3: I subconsciously thought that this may be relative of this person. No,
Speaker 3: and you know, there was a cue to sign document.
Speaker 3: So I went after this person in the queue, and
Speaker 3: I remember seeing this person signing and talking you know,
Speaker 3: with some people, and it was you know, this relative
Speaker 3: of this person alone without the other person. So it was,
Speaker 3: you know, this is beyond any kind of rational explanation.
Speaker 3: So such dreams started. I would say, back then, my
Speaker 3: spiritual evolution and coming you know, out of just materialism atheism.
Speaker 3: So this is what personally changes. Change shifted me the most.
Speaker 3: And you know, after such things, there were a few
Speaker 3: of them, more I completely stopped, you know, neglecting any
Speaker 3: idea that okay, maybe it's an illusion you know, of
Speaker 3: our minds to believe in spiritual No I am maybe
Speaker 3: you know believe, but you know from experience, Like okay,
Speaker 3: I don't believe believe, but you know from experience, I
Speaker 3: have like belief. But in knowing that, I know, you know,
Speaker 3: there's something more. So this was the personal experience. But
Speaker 3: I think the biggest shift for a future when it
Speaker 3: comes to you know, the world, is that science actually
Speaker 3: when you look at them. But it's for another conversation
Speaker 3: because it's too much. Science isn't actually about either coming
Speaker 3: after truth. But science also, as you know, science does
Speaker 3: not apply to anything spiritual because in the fundamentals of science,
Speaker 3: fundamental assumptions, philosophically, science has that there exists only natural
Speaker 3: things and that everything is rational. So everything supernatural is
Speaker 3: just beyond the boundaries of application of science, beyond the
Speaker 3: domain of science. And I think it's a huge thing
Speaker 3: for people because again science choice to the bank. Religions,
Speaker 3: the bank spirituality, you know, say that we are some
Speaker 3: idiot or something or just primitive, you do know, low
Speaker 3: iq people, et cetera. Very often people claim such things
Speaker 3: that you know, religion is just stupid and we should
Speaker 3: go into you know, atheism, rationalism, But actually they cannot
Speaker 3: disprove us with science because science, at the current moment
Speaker 3: with then you know, it's paradigm is only applied to
Speaker 3: the natural material world and only rational things. So anything irrational,
Speaker 3: and very often spiritual experiences are irrational. Hard to describe
Speaker 3: it by rational thinking. It's all outside of its domain.
Speaker 3: M h.
Speaker 2: You know, there are two totally separate islands on the
Speaker 2: same ocean. But I tell people, I think science is
Speaker 2: kind of man's way of trying to wrap their little
Speaker 2: brains around God and phenomenons that they can't explain.
Speaker 6: Is kind of like, for instance, like the.
Speaker 2: Biblical story of Moses parting the Red Sea. You know,
Speaker 2: from the metaphysical spiritual side, we're like, oh, the power
Speaker 2: of God, you know, divided the waters so they could
Speaker 2: go across on this dry land. But then you have
Speaker 2: the atheists that go towards the science. They'll look at
Speaker 2: the same event and say, oh, well, and I'm just
Speaker 2: throwing stuff out, So don't think that I'm you know,
Speaker 2: let break breaking ground and all this kind of scientific
Speaker 2: revelation stuff.
Speaker 6: I'm just using this as an example.
Speaker 2: But like, you know, oh, there's a fault line right there,
Speaker 2: and uh, if you know, if an earthquake happened right
Speaker 2: there next to that fault line, uh, you know, and
Speaker 2: then we were recorded a tornado around this certain time too,
Speaker 2: so that the winds and that earthquake you know, could
Speaker 2: have separated the water. That's a natural thing. So therefore
Speaker 2: it's not miraculous, you know, try to you know, take
Speaker 2: away the miraculous part of the Bible by explaining it
Speaker 2: this way. And I tell people, I'm like, I don't
Speaker 2: think you have to draw a line where you're saying, oh,
Speaker 2: it's all science or I'm science. You know, Oh no,
Speaker 2: I'm faith. I think it's just the same thing. It's
Speaker 2: just two different types of methods to try to explain
Speaker 2: the same phenomena. And I tell people, I'm like, I
Speaker 2: don't think it de supernaturalizes the Bible if you have
Speaker 2: people scientists trying to explain miraculous things in the Bible
Speaker 2: in a natural way, because I tell people God created
Speaker 2: all this, so I think it's very likely that he
Speaker 2: would use the elements that he created inside of his
Speaker 2: you know machine.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, But what I wanted to meant was that
Speaker 3: science at its current form, And I think this is
Speaker 3: the biggest thing about you know, why it's so limited
Speaker 3: for any kind of spiritual ideas trying to debank everything
Speaker 3: is that, you know, the one of the definitions, because
Speaker 3: again there is no single definition of science. One of
Speaker 3: the definitions of science would be method of understanding natural
Speaker 3: world rationally. So we see huge you know, bab huge limitation.
Speaker 3: That okay, But what if something is to this description
Speaker 3: unnatural supernatural? We often call or what something is illogical irrational,
Speaker 3: So it's only a rational way of understanding the material world.
Speaker 4: So that's what I meant.
Speaker 2: Okay, gotcha, Well, I guess before I'll let you go,
Speaker 2: because I am curious. I'll usually try to keep these
Speaker 2: shows around an hour. People have the attention spans of
Speaker 2: squirrels most times, and that's me included. But you wrote
Speaker 2: this great book. You're obviously well read, well researched, young man.
Speaker 6: I can call.
Speaker 3: You behind people say you see you see.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But I know you had mentioned that you're working on
Speaker 2: some papers to be peer reviewed. Is there any future
Speaker 2: books in the works or in your head that you
Speaker 2: hope to or plan to write in the future.
Speaker 3: I plan, but I think right now I will focus
Speaker 3: both on research, maybe on papers. But for sure I
Speaker 3: will publish more books in the new future. But I
Speaker 3: don't have like, oh, this year, i'll publish something or
Speaker 3: next this amount of months. Now, if it happens, it happens,
Speaker 3: divine timing and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Awesome, Well, alec man, I appreciate you coming on, and
Speaker 2: I meant what I said. I want to have more
Speaker 2: conversations with you. So now that we kind of got
Speaker 2: our time zones figured out, if we I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe we'll just time stamp this time and maybe next
Speaker 2: time we can just book it for this same time again.
Speaker 2: But I appreciate you coming out man. For anybody that
Speaker 2: maybe wasn't paying attention at the start, or came in
Speaker 2: and was distracted and missed at the beginning, just go
Speaker 2: ahead and let everybody know you know who you are, websites, youtubes,
Speaker 2: anything that you'd like to plug that where they can
Speaker 2: find you and your work.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 3: I think that the best way for any English speaker
Speaker 3: would be just copy and paste my name and cern
Speaker 3: name Alexander Tishkevitch, and you can find me on plenty
Speaker 3: of social media and plenty of other podcast appearances on YouTube, Facebook,
Speaker 3: Instagram and others. And you can find me because I
Speaker 3: also have Polish social media. So wherever you find me
Speaker 3: in English, that would be you know, the way to
Speaker 3: find me in my book is on Amazon in English
Speaker 3: on Amazon like US, UK, Canada, Australia and a few more.
Speaker 3: It's deja vu has everything already been? It's about loss
Speaker 3: of civilizations and cyclical time, and I think it's a
Speaker 3: great vault of knowledge when it comes to such topics
Speaker 3: that we've talked about. So I think this is the
Speaker 3: best way. I'm from Poland, I'm researcher, author, and you know,
Speaker 3: I think within our conversation we talked enough about you know,
Speaker 3: what's are the topics.
Speaker 4: So thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Really enjoyed this conversation, and I think that yes we
Speaker 3: should do another one again because it was, you know,
Speaker 3: just the tip of the iceberg of everything.
Speaker 4: But really really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean I enjoyed a good conversations and
Speaker 2: learning new stuff from people that are going down different
Speaker 2: rabbit holes than I am. Because I tell people all
Speaker 2: the time there's so many rabbit holes you can find
Speaker 2: one little long too, but one one good one you
Speaker 2: could be digging and going down for forty fifty years.
Speaker 2: So these conversations are nice to find other people in
Speaker 2: different rabbit holes. That way you can kind of spread
Speaker 2: your blanket on the knowledge bombs that are going around today. Well, guys, man,
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed that. Be sure to check out
Speaker 2: Xander stuff. Like I said, he's on Instagram. That's how
Speaker 2: we connect, and you can definitely go to Nick's show
Speaker 2: The Occult Rejects.
Speaker 6: You are a.
Speaker 2: Longtime listener of my show. You are familiar with Nick
Speaker 2: and some of the work that I've done with him.
Speaker 2: Exandre is on been on there a couple of times
Speaker 2: talking about some really cool stuff like we talked about today,
Speaker 2: So check him out, contribute to his work, guys, Hey,
Speaker 2: and thank you for coming out.
Speaker 6: I just remember the difference between the known and the unknown.
Speaker 2: It is the journey, so good journey, guys.