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See whattail up Toadian. 23 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:15.760 You are now listening to True Murder The most Shocking 24 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:18.879 Killers in True crime History and the authors that have 25 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:26.239 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 26 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:29.959 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 27 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:34.519 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 28 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:37.439 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 29 00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:49.280 Good evening. This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 30 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:52.120 program True Murder, The most shocking Killers in True crime 31 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:55.319 History and the authors that have written about them. There 32 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:58.959 are more than sixty serial murderers in Canadian history. For 33 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:02.200 too long, awareness serial murder and Canada has been confined 34 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:05.719 to West Coast child killer Clifford Olson and the schoolgirl 35 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:09.159 murderers Paul Bernardo and Carla Hamalka, along with one of 36 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:13.280 the most prolific serial killers in history, Robert Picton. Unlike America, 37 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:15.919 Canada has been viewed as a nation untouched by the 38 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:19.879 shadow of serial murder. Then came Colonel Russell Williams and 39 00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:23.919 his bizarre homicides in serial home invasions, which were sensational 40 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:27.639 news worldwide on the Internet, television, and in newspapers and magazines. 41 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:32.599 The reasons for Canada's serial killer blackout is clear. Until now, 42 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:35.639 such information has never been compiled and presented in a single, 43 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:39.280 concise work. Cold North Killers is a wake up call. 44 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:43.759 This detailed and haunting account of Canada's worst monsters analyzes 45 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:49.039 their crimes, childhoods, and inevitable downfalls. The book that was 46 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:53.080 featured this evening is Cold North Killers Canadian Serial Murder 47 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:57.000 with my special guest, journalist and author Lee mellar A. 48 00:02:57.039 --> 00:02:58.919 Welcome to the program, and thank you for a Green 49 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:00.120 dis interview, Lee. 50 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:03.039 Melar Hey, thanks for having me on them. 51 00:03:03.479 --> 00:03:06.240 Thank you very much for coming on. This is very interesting, 52 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:09.199 as you know, maybe the audience knows as well. I'm 53 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:13.080 living in Winnipeg and born in Ontario, so this is 54 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:17.599 even more interesting to me. Serial killers I had no 55 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:21.479 idea about so. First off, a question that I often 56 00:03:21.479 --> 00:03:24.639 asked many of the authors is what brought you to 57 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:30.199 this idea of writing a book about Canada's serial killers. 58 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:35.199 You've got at least sixty serial killers profiled in this book. 59 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:38.240 What brought you to this project? What compelled you to 60 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:42.719 want to do a book about Canada's worst monsters? 61 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:46.439 Originally I was going to write a fiction book, a 62 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:50.840 series of detective stories, and I was going to have 63 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:55.039 an RCMP profiler who went all over Canada solving these 64 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:59.000 various murders. And I started thinking about the murderers that 65 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:02.199 I was familiar with in Canada, the serial murders that is, 66 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:05.199 and I could only come up with like Bernardo Olsen 67 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:08.560 and Pickton at the time. So I didn't want to 68 00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:11.199 duplicate something that had been done in real life. So 69 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:13.319 I decided to do a little bit of digging. And 70 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:16.199 what I onearthed, I on earthed so many interesting cases 71 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:19.480 that I've actually became more interested in writing a book 72 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:23.680 on the non fiction the actual hidden story of serial 73 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:27.040 murder in Canada, rather than my fictional mystery story. 74 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:31.439 Sure, now, how did you? How did you start this? 75 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:35.560 Because being in Canada myself too, not that I'm a 76 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:38.839 serial killer expert, but I often have what can be 77 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:42.000 considered serial killer experts on this program from America, you know, 78 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:45.160 thet the really hard of true crime and people that 79 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:49.120 are very experienced there, so they can be considered experts. Now, 80 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:52.519 what where was your source of information and was there 81 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:56.560 any Were you surprised that you didn't know this? But 82 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.480 were you surprised at the lack of information? And where? 83 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:03.519 What were your sources of information to find out all 84 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:06.399 the lists of serial killers in Canada and the information 85 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:09.319 behind their crimes and their convictions. 86 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:12.839 Well, I started with the Internet, which is the perfect 87 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:17.079 tool for searching. I went into newspaper archives pretty much 88 00:05:17.319 --> 00:05:22.920 every major newspaper all over Canada, looked at some court documents, 89 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:26.839 looked at books that had been written on some of 90 00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:31.720 the cases specifically, and even watched a few television programs 91 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:35.240 just trying to glean all the information I could on it. 92 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:38.839 As you probably know, our court system is much more 93 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:42.079 closed than the US as far as getting information goes, 94 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:44.360 so as really scavenging. 95 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:00.000 We seem to have a technical difficulty. Let me see 96 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:04.160 what's going on here? Yeah still, oh there yo go Lee. 97 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:06.439 Well we just lost you for about a few minutes 98 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:09.000 so or a minute or so, so let's go back. 99 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:13.399 You were talking about how Canadian system versus the American 100 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:15.759 system much more closed, and you were scavenging, You were 101 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:19.439 really scrounging for information, and then we lost you in 102 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:19.920 the signal. 103 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:23.480 That was That was pretty much it. You know, I 104 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:26.920 was a scavenger. I took any available sources I could. 105 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:30.720 As I got lucky, I was able to get psychiatrist 106 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:34.839 reports or court documents, things like that. But a lot 107 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:37.800 of the time I was going through newspapers or the 108 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:40.959 books that have been published, say on some of these cases. 109 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:43.879 A lot of the books are out of print too, 110 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:47.439 so that'd track them down. That was yeah, that was 111 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:49.720 my main source. I wasn't able to speak with any 112 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:52.360 any of the killers or anything like that. 113 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:56.160 Well, you don't have room in if you're talking about 114 00:06:56.160 --> 00:07:00.000 sixty cases or sixty murderers with multiple at least three, 115 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:01.959 so you're talking about a lot of murders. If you 116 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:04.879 went through that, no one knowing could put up that's incredible. 117 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:08.759 That would be you know, real manifesto. So what I 118 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:11.759 found interesting for you know, again we're talking to a 119 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:14.519 world audience here, and a lot of people aren't so 120 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:17.600 familiar with Clifford Olsen. They must be familiar with Paul 121 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:20.480 Bernardo and Carlo Jamalka and Robert Picton, and then there 122 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:24.759 are some other interesting Colonel Russell Williams. But but we'll 123 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:27.040 talk later in the program, if we've got a little 124 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:29.319 bit of time, I think we will just about the 125 00:07:29.399 --> 00:07:33.040 latest developments. How Canadians are really competing in this serial 126 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:36.480 killer sweepstakes or at least bizarre killer sweepstakes. Anyway, we're 127 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:39.800 trying to get noticed. So let's go back and talk 128 00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:44.519 about the lesser known serial killers in Canada that have 129 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:47.439 a really I mean, I've found this fascinating just doing 130 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:52.360 some of the research and looking through your book some 131 00:07:52.399 --> 00:07:55.759 of the very interesting cases that are unique, regardless of 132 00:07:55.759 --> 00:08:01.399 whether they're Canada or American, and tell us about tell 133 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:05.560 us about Paul Jordan or the alcohol killer. 134 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:09.560 Let me see Gilbert Paul Jordan. Yeah, he also he 135 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:11.680 had a number of aliases. I think there was a 136 00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:15.519 he was Gilbert Paul Elsie, kept changing his name and 137 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:18.160 every time he come out of prison. But this guy 138 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:22.879 started in Vancouver in the sixties. He was a kind 139 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:27.240 of a geeky looking guy, balding, with glasses and had 140 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:30.399 absolutely no self confidence and I had a number of 141 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:36.919 child molestation and rape charges. I believe his thing, aside 142 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:39.639 from being a sexual predator, was that he was also 143 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:45.159 a complete alcoholic and would often polish off forty ounces 144 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:48.320 of sixty ounces of liquor in a day. So he 145 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:51.519 kind of combined the two into this really bizarre signature 146 00:08:51.559 --> 00:08:56.240 where he would get the sex workers from the Vancouver's 147 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:01.080 infamous downtown area, and he would take them to hotels 148 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:04.360 or back to his barber shop, and he would play 149 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:06.919 drinking games with them, which he would always win because 150 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:09.360 he had kind of an iron liver by that point. 151 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:13.320 And then when they passed that unconscious, he would pour 152 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:17.120 the rest of the contents down their throats and they 153 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:19.960 would die of alcohol poisoning, and then he would rape 154 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:23.039 them as they were dying, and I imagine probably was 155 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:26.759 still raping them after they were dead. So it's probably 156 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:31.200 one of the most unique signatures that a serial killer 157 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:33.879 has ever employed. And it also has the handy side 158 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:36.399 effect of being able to pass off your victims as 159 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:39.159 just you know, alcohol overdoses. 160 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:43.639 There was some controversy in court though, because again he 161 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:47.000 got eight to ten women died by this way, so 162 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:49.919 by the time people had heard about this, there was 163 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:54.519 some controversy in court as to whether they could ever 164 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:58.559 ever prove that what he was doing was actually murdered 165 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:02.519 that you're speaking about. Tell us just a little bit 166 00:10:02.519 --> 00:10:04.799 about that, because there's a little bit about that that 167 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:07.240 this guy was known for a little while, and then 168 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:10.120 finally tell us how he was actually convicted and what 169 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:11.879 was his inevitable faith himself. 170 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:15.240 Oh well, I can tell you it was an inevitable 171 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.159 fate right off the bat, and it's quite startling. Actually, 172 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:21.759 we have the dangerous offender law in Canada, where if 173 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:27.639 you're somebody that's convicted of multiple heinous crimes, you can 174 00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:32.279 get this designation where you're not allowed to be let 175 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:35.440 out of prison. But amazingly they kept even after he 176 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:38.480 was convicted of these serial murders, they kept letting him 177 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:41.360 out of prison, and he'd reoffend again, not necessarily with 178 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:45.799 a murder, but with preaching, you know, his parole, or 179 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:53.519 just as minor crimes or sex crimes, and so essentially 180 00:10:54.679 --> 00:11:00.080 he kept offending until the day he eventually died, and 181 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:02.159 they never really figured out that they should just keep 182 00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:05.440 them in prison. It's strange to me. 183 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:10.000 Yeah, well it was. Again. I think it's the controversy 184 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:12.720 was that there was you know, I mean, it's a 185 00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:16.360 hard thing to prove that what he did other than 186 00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:20.960 people willingly drinking alcohol together. So unless you have this 187 00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:24.720 reliable eyewitness, and we won't board American audience or world 188 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:29.360 audience with what's ronwa Canada. In terms of regarding intoxication 189 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:32.879 as a major excuse for murder, but you know, our 190 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:37.440 friends across the border don't have a similar device where 191 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:42.720 alcohol actually can diminish murder or reduce murder to something 192 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:46.039 like manslaughter. So and I'm not sure about every other country, 193 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:49.879 but I'm pretty sure that they there are few countries, 194 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:53.720 if any, have that same sort of as you know 195 00:11:53.799 --> 00:11:58.159 by reading being a student of the media, that that 196 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:02.679 it's almost routine to drop murdered of manslaughter because of intoxication. 197 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:08.120 So mm hmm, yeah, I mean that, go ahead, no, 198 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:11.440 go ahead. I was just gonna say that could have 199 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:14.360 been a factor. There's some things that are interesting to me. 200 00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:17.480 For instance that when they did an autopsy on one 201 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:20.879 of the uh, one of the victims, Ivory Rose Oswald, 202 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:23.360 they found that she had a blood alcohol level of 203 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:27.440 zero point five to one, and death by alcohol poisoning 204 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:31.320 normally occurs at point four. So to me that, I mean, 205 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:35.000 that's very suspicious. How does she keep drinking after? 206 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:38.120 Wait, the lucky land slots. You can get lucky just 207 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:39.039 about anywhere. 208 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:42.799 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 209 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:44.759 weather's five. But we're just gonna circle up here a 210 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:48.039 while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. It's 211 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:50.720 just these cash prizes add up quick, so I suggest 212 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:52.759 you sit back, keep your trade table up right, and 213 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:53.840 start getting. 214 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:57.399 Lucky pay for free at lucky landslips dot com. Are 215 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:01.039 you feeling lucky? No purchase necessary? Void were prohibited by 216 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.360 Law eighteen plus terms and conditions. Applying the website for 217 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:05.720 details or. 218 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:09.399 She would be that plus they have They also had 219 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.600 audio recordings with him saying strange things to them like 220 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:16.440 come on, one more, drink baby down the hatch, you know, 221 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:21.200 basically egging them on to drink themselves into unconsciousness. So 222 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:23.960 there's to me, there was a lot of proof. 223 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:29.519 Yeah, the thing is that that's what I Again, an 224 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:32.559 American audience might find odd that this guy's you just said, 225 00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:36.879 this guy committed eight to ten murders and yet he's 226 00:13:36.919 --> 00:13:39.159 still he was not in prison for the rest of 227 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:42.480 his life. One, two, three, four, five six. There are 228 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:48.159 devices in other countries where this negligent behavior regardless, someone dies, 229 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:52.279 then that someone has to be responsible and the sentences 230 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:55.120 are much stiffer. So you there wouldn't be a serial 231 00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:01.279 killer like this in other countries, I would think, and certainly, certainly, definitely, 232 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:06.120 as far as my research is not a chance in America. Now, 233 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:10.279 tell us about some other notorious murderers in Canada and 234 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:14.120 you just you just name some and then we'll discuss those. 235 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:20.159 Okay, well, you said you're from Winnipeg. Let's start with 236 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:22.600 Michael Veschio or you're aware of him. 237 00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:25.960 A little bit. But tell us more about Michael Veshio 238 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:26.799 and what you found out. 239 00:14:27.879 --> 00:14:30.080 Okay, Well, let's go back to what you said before 240 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:34.399 about the definition of the serial killer being three victims. Actually, 241 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:39.159 after a conference by the FBI and various academic experts 242 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:42.639 on the subject in San Antonio, they decided to drop 243 00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:47.120 it to two now, so that it's only two. And 244 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.039 there is a lot of controversy over that. So my 245 00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:51.720 book does feature a lot of offenders that have only 246 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:54.840 been convicted of two. But at the same time, it 247 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:58.279 was a reasonable assumption. They defend again, and one of 248 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.919 them is Michael Veschio. He was in Winnipeg. He was 249 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:08.519 after the right after World War two, and basically someone 250 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:14.600 was raping these or sexually assaulting these boys in their 251 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:18.639 early teens or children at gunpoint in Winnipeg, and whenever 252 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:22.279 they refused him, he would shoot them. And so he 253 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:27.080 ended up killing two boys and actually caught him by 254 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:33.159 by finding him in thunder Bay after he'd robbed the bank, 255 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:38.320 and they linked the weapon through ballistics to the Winnipeg murders, 256 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:41.159 and that's how Michael Veashio was brought to justice. 257 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:45.960 Wow. Well that's fascinating too because that's my hometown, thunder Bay. 258 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:49.879 So yeah, yeah, and I grew up. I grew up 259 00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:52.240 with a guy named Vashio, so there's you know, Vatio 260 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:54.399 family would be familiar with me too, So that was 261 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:55.159 very interesting. 262 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:58.440 Yeah they could, Yeah, it could be related. 263 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:01.919 Now, what was the fate of Michael Vesho He was 264 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:05.759 convicted of the two murders? Obviously, No, he. 265 00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:07.559 Ended up at the end of the hangman's rope. 266 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:12.480 Yeah, swift justice. 267 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:14.559 They didn't nothing around back in those days. You had 268 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:15.759 a couple of months. 269 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:20.240 Yeah, Now, tell us about tell us about maybe someone 270 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:22.000 from another part of the country so we can get 271 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:25.720 a little geographical idea that it's not just West Coast. 272 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:28.639 Tell us about some of the other serial killers not 273 00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:31.080 known to the general public. 274 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:37.080 Okay, well there's a Probably Toronto's most interesting serial murderer 275 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:40.759 was a seventeen year old boy by the name of 276 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:45.799 Peter Woodcock, and he was operating in the late nineteen 277 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:50.039 fifty six in early nineteen fifty seven, he was mobile, 278 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.399 but on a highly mobile but he rode a bicycle 279 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:57.000 around Toronto, and essentially he would lure these little children 280 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:02.679 into parts of Toronto like ravines or down to Cherry Beach, 281 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:08.319 which was then quite deserted, and he choked them and 282 00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:15.279 beat them, bite them, and this kind of strangle and 283 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:16.400 suffocate them into death. 284 00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:17.599 These very sort of. 285 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:25.000 Spontaneous hand crimes to kill these children. And there was 286 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.960 also a really immature sexual element to them too, like 287 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:30.640 he would undress them, look at the bodies, and then 288 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:34.799 redress them, but without actually sexually assaulting them. And the 289 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:39.680 first two victims were young boys, like around nine years old. 290 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:43.960 The third victim was a girl, I believe she was 291 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:48.519 about four, and he killed her by thrusting a branch 292 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:53.359 into her vagina. So they finally catched this weird kid 293 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:56.720 with glasses who was riding all over Toronto and acting 294 00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:59.960 quite suspiciously, and they put him in a mental health 295 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.000 hospital and he stays there from nineteen fifty seven to 296 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:07.559 nineteen ninety one, when they finally decide that he's been 297 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:13.160 through enough rehabilitation that they can allow him out on 298 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:15.440 a day pass and you know what, he doesn't even 299 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.359 get off the hospital grounds. As soon as he's out 300 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.039 of the hospital, he murders a fellow patients, Dennis Kerr, 301 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:26.799 sodomizes his corpse and then walks to the police station 302 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:28.559 and turns himself in. 303 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:36.480 Yeah, yeah, amazing. Yeah, it's hard to beat something like that. Incredible. Now, 304 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:37.119 what about. 305 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:42.359 Boden Wayne Boden. Okay, so when we're moving into Quebec, 306 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:47.880 Wayne Boden was known as the vampire rapist or strangler Bill, 307 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:54.119 and he kind of surfaced in nineteen sixty nine. Boden's signature, 308 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:59.960 which is the kind of like a psychosexual expression which 309 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:04.720 we use to link crimes, was biting into the breasts 310 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:08.119 of his victims, hence the term the vampire rapist. So 311 00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:15.519 in nineteen sixty nine nineteen seventy that era, he killed 312 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:20.119 three women in Montreal. He'd go back to their apartments 313 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:24.839 with them and then he'd sexually attack them and bite 314 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:28.799 their breasts on two of those occasions, and the whole 315 00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:31.160 city was in a panic looking for this guy. And 316 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:38.079 then it stopped. But he resurfaces in Calgary, Alberta, and 317 00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:40.400 he murders a woman there and they're able to link 318 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:42.359 him to that crime through the bite marks. 319 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:46.200 So it was actually the first. 320 00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:49.000 Time that I believe bite mark evidence was used in 321 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:55.160 North America to convict any kind of offender. And it's 322 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:59.160 important because later it would be used to apprehend ted 323 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:00.920 Bundy started in Canada. 324 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:05.880 Yeah, very interesting. Yeah, it's a very interesting twist. Now, 325 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:10.640 what about William Patrick Fife And then he says five, 326 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:15.519 He's been convicted of five murders in Montreal, but he's 327 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.279 a suspect and much many more. Tell us a little 328 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:21.200 bit about William Fife. 329 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:25.240 The last number I think they pigged him at was nine. 330 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:28.799 William Fife was known as the killer Handyman. He actually 331 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:32.279 this first murder they believed was nineteen seventy nine. He 332 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:35.200 wasn't apprehended till nineteen ninety nine, so he was killing 333 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:40.839 over a twenty year period. His modus operandi was basically 334 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:41.200 to go. 335 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:42.480 He would stalk. 336 00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:47.160 These women that were living on their own about various ages, 337 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:51.400 and when he was certain that they weren't living with 338 00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:53.480 a man, or that a man wasn't going to be home, 339 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:56.559 he would often go and knock on the doors and say, well, 340 00:20:56.599 --> 00:21:00.240 you know, the landlord sent me around to fix the 341 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:04.359 sink or something like that, like a ruse approach. Once 342 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:07.640 he'd gain entry to the house, he'd attacked the women, 343 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:13.839 often raping them, and he was a lot of anger 344 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:17.759 in that man. He would stab his victims forty four times, 345 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:24.480 bludging them, beat them severely, and then towards the end of. 346 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:29.440 His career as a serial killer, he was actually. 347 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:33.000 Torturing them to get their ATM codes. So they've got 348 00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:35.039 the police goup a first look at him when he 349 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:38.519 was caught on an ATM camera accessing one of the 350 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:44.079 women's bank accounts. He was eventually caught by DNA. He 351 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.079 was already on record and he left some DNA at 352 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.000 one of the crime scenes, and so that was that, 353 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:56.319 and they threw him in jail, and eventually he confessed 354 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:00.319 to these other murders going back to nineteen seventy nine, 355 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:01.519 which they hadn't linked them to. 356 00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:05.720 So he's got nine nine under his belt. 357 00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:08.000 In Yeah, that's a pretty safe bet. 358 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:15.599 Now we talked about Peter Woodcock, tell us about another 359 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:21.720 interesting serial killer that people might not have heard about. 360 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:25.880 The one that people might not have heard about. Okay, Well, 361 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.359 there's just there's so many of them. 362 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:32.559 There is a guy called. 363 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:35.839 Ronald Glenn West. He was known as the twenty two 364 00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:39.119 caliber killer. Lots of serial killers have had that moniker 365 00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:42.799 over history, but he was actually the first. And he 366 00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:47.079 was a policeman in Toronto, and he would drive to 367 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:51.839 the sort of countryside just north of Toronto and he 368 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:57.920 would knock on the doors of housewives while their husbands 369 00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:00.759 were away. Then we're not quite sure gain an entry 370 00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:02.279 to the house. He might have pulled the gun, he 371 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:04.640 might have tricked his way in the wants inside. He 372 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:08.480 would rape them at gunpoint and then he'd shoot them 373 00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:11.839 to death, often in front of their children. And because 374 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:14.359 he was a policeman, he was very forensically. 375 00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:15.759 Aware, so he would collect a lot of. 376 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:19.279 The evidence in shellcasings. So he committed these two of 377 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:23.000 these murders in nineteen seventy and then the trail just 378 00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:25.759 went cold, and it was cold for twenty five years, 379 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:31.119 and then they actually catch him in thunder Bay committing 380 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:36.920 an armed robbery, and they just threw good police work. 381 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:40.279 The guy who caught him for the armed robbery was 382 00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:44.119 at an opp conference with a guy who was investigating 383 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:46.799 this cold case from nineteen seventy and he mentioned a 384 00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:51.079 specific type of gum that Ronald West used this pistol, 385 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:57.759 and the police officer investigating the nineteen seventy murderers he 386 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.519 realized that it was the same rare have done that 387 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:04.200 they were looking for, So they eventually linked West those 388 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:07.400 rape murders by a DNA sample. 389 00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:15.279 Interesting the unique case. How about tell us about Leopold Dion. 390 00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:20.319 Oh, Leopold Dion. Okay, so that's back in the sixties. 391 00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:27.799 He was known as the Monster of pont Rouge. That 392 00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:32.240 memory serves me correctly. Basically, yeah, he was a child 393 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:39.039 killer and he worked around the Quebec city area. 394 00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:42.559 So wait, the Lucky landslide. You can get lucky just 395 00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:43.599 about anywhere. 396 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.279 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 397 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:49.119 weather's five. But we're just going to circle up here 398 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.240 a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. 399 00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:54.759 It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I 400 00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:57.079 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 401 00:24:57.160 --> 00:24:58.319