Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
As you're all aware, we are at the Christmas break
for the trial, so obviously there's nothing groundbreaking happening in
the mornings or even in the evenings at this point.
But that's okay, because we're still going to be here
adding some context, and we're going to do that today
by talking about the grand jury transcripts from Palm Beach. Now,
there was a lot of talk a few weeks ago
that this judge was going to release these grand jury transcripts,
and that would have been a huge boost in the
arm for transparency. We all know that whatever went on
in that grand jury room in two thousand and six,
it was not good, all right. Whatever was going on
in that grand jury room based on that arrest was
not up to par. And the the fact that only
one of those girls was able to give their story
in front of the grand jury tells you everything you
need to know about the prosecutors and about the whole
entire scenario that unfolded this prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein. The
original prosecution was legitimately one of the biggest travesties of
justice perhaps ever. When you look at the grand scope
of it all, and you look at the disgusting nature
of his crimes and the wake of misery he left.
I mean, it's hard not to look at it like that.
And the fact that Barry Krisher and the State Prosecutor's
office in Florida worked hand in hand with Dershowitz and
Lefkowitz and the rest of Jeffrey Epstein's legal team to
not only get him off, but to destroy his own witnesses,
Barry Kirsher's own witnesses, meaning these girls, is just unbelievable
to me. And you have this judge down there in
Palm Beach, you know, one of the good old boys,
one of the been around forevers, still mucking things up,
still not interested in transparency. You would think, after all
these years and all of the scrutiny over the Jeffrey
Epstein case, that some of these judges would wise up
by now. But like I always say, they think they're
feudal lords and these courtrooms are their fiefdoms and they
can do whatever they want. And these lifetime elected, lifetime
appointed judges bad news. Folks talk about people who are
power hungry. Every now and then you'll run across one
of these judges like this guy, and you just shake
your head. But there's been a lot of them when
it comes to the Jeffrey Epstein case. A lot of
these judges, a lot of these people in positions of power,
have failed these girls time and time again. And with
this latest blow, this judge not going to release these transcripts.
It's just another victory for the scumbags and just another
hurdle in the way of those who are trying to
bring those scumbags to justice. This morning, we have an
article from the Palm Beach Post and the author is
Jane Musgrave. Was the Jeffrey Epstein case intentionally sunk? Judge
won't excuse me, Judge won't release secret grand jury papers.
And again it's another blow to transparency. It's another blow
to those of us who want the truth, and it
just again throws up another over. What everybody perceives at
this point is government malfeasans. You would think that they'd
want to expose that, right, you would think that they'd
want to put that on blast, But that's not how
it works. They're going to cover your ass mode and
they got to protect the other scumbags that they work with,
and it's just such a dog and pony show at
this point, and the illusion that there's a fair justice system,
the illusion that there isn't a two tier justice system,
is being shattered on a regular basis at this point.
A Palm Beach County Circuit judge on Monday refused to
release secret documents that could explain why a two thousand
and six grand jury indicted serial child molester Jeffrey Epstein
on a single charge of prostitution despite evidence that showed
he abused more than a dozen girls at his Palm
Beach mansion. Now let that sink in for those of
you who aren't really completely up to date on the case,
you know, those of you who have you know, had
a life for the last three years, this might seem like,
what the hell are you talking about here? How is
that even possible? But this is what they've been dealing with,
meaning the survivors from the beginning, law enforcement has not
been on their side. Law enforcement, in fact, a lot
of the time has worked against them. And you see
it here again when you have this judge who makes
the decision that these grand jury documents will not see
the light of day, as if it's some sort of
national security issue where nobody should ever see those grand
jury documents. Now, I understand if there was a legitimate reason,
a legitimate issue, keeping those documents from the public, But
there's no legitimate reason, unless, of course, you're trying to
cover for somebody, unless of course you're trying to protect
your friends in a tent. In a ten page order circuit,
Judge Donald Haffel rejected arguments by attorneys for the Palm
Beach Post who pushed him to release the records, citing
a rarely used state law that allows the secrecy of
grand of the grand jury to be pierced to further
the interests of justice. And if this isn't a case
where that hits home, I don't know what is. These
grand jury testimony should be on the uh uh uh
uh excuse me released. They shouldn't be hidden from the
public for all of these years, especially if it moves
the interests of justice, and it certainly would, considering the
non prosecution agreement is based on all of this, So
to get rid of that non prosecution agreement, wouldn't it
stand to reason that having these grand jury documents tints
released would go a long way to making that occur.
While Halfel noted the newspaper offered strong arguments, he said
he was bound by the state's law. The court rules
against the newspaper because the established and binding maxims of
Florida law constrain it to do so, Halfley wrote. Halfly wrote,
and again we know that that's not one hundred percent
the case. If it promotes the interest of justice, as
according to the state law in Florida, then the documents
can be released, the transcripts can be released. But they
don't have any interest in doing that. Him, the other
judge that's involved in this, Krystal Marx, all of them
had ties to Barry Krisher or other people involved in
the case. That's how these things work with these bureaucrats.
They're all friends, they're all going to the same company functions,
and on and on and on it goes. We've discussed
it a lot here on this podcast. You're not buying
the lawyer for what they're going to do in the courtroom.
For the most part, you're paying for a lawyer for
the connections they have outside of the courtroom, for the
access they can get you to the prosecutor's office. Why
do you think in a situation like Maxwell's she hires
somebody like Christian everde ex prosecutor has a lock with
the SDNY knows all of the prosecutors. They're all probably chummy.
They probably go to barbecues together, you know what I'm
talking about. While state law allows the release of grand
jury records to further the interest of justice, he said,
it is clear the legislature intended that exception to be
used only in pending criminal or civil cases. So just
because this happened a while back, and now Epstein's dead,
let's just forget it ever happened. We'll just move on.
And you know what it is, what it is. Sorry,
the girls who are victimized, no justice for them. It's
basically what this judge is saying. And I mean it
shouldn't shock anybody considering, you know what we see these
judges do on a regular basis from the bench here
in America. But you would think that something like this,
with all of the interests surrounding it, all of the
questions that still need to be answered, that if you
were a judge, you'd say to yourself, you know what,
in the interests of justice, in the interests of moving
the truth forward. I'm going to release these transcripts, and
that's what the law is put on the books for.
But unfortunately this judge didn't want to interpret the interpret
it that way. Instead, the newspaper advocates a more expensive
interpretation of the term. He wrote, the newspaper wants the
ability to publish the materials and reference them and its reporting,
and also to make the materials available to the public. Yeah,
that's how this works, judge. Okay, the public is interested
in a case that it's probably one of the most
corrupt of all time. So yeah, there is going to
be a bit of hesitancy to trust you. There is
going to be a bit of cynicism when it comes
to court rulings, and the fact that you want to
keep this stuff away from the public is just going
to feed into conspiracy theories and outlandish thoughts. The government
plays a huge part in all of that. They could
stem and stop a whole bunch of the conspiracy stuff
with a whole lot of different topics if they just
stop their bullshit. But they don't want to ever be transparent.
They want to keep everything private. Everything's a national security issue,
isn't it, And that's what they'll say. Or if you're
looking to get information about something, say like Jeffrey Epstein's
first alleged suicide attempt, what they'll say is the information
is unavailable because it's still part of an ongoing investigation,
and that ongoing investigation has to do with Tartan. So
they'll just run you in circles for as long as possible,
and if somehow you do get some Freedom of Information
Act information from them, it'll be heavily redacted or partial.
You'll never get the full story like the newspapers attorneys.
Haffel said the transcripts could help answer troublesome questions about
why the politically connected, multimillionaire pedophile escaped serious punishment. Some
claim that then State Attorney Barry Krisher was improperly influenced
by Epstein's high octang defense team. I agree with that.
I definitely think he was. When you go back and
you look at all of the documentation, and you look
at the reporting, and you look at how things broke,
it's very obvious that he wasn't working as an advocate
for these survivors, and neither was the Prosecutor's Office of
Florida or hell, the federal prosecutor's office either. Because remember,
while Acosta was the one who was the direction man, right,
the guy who was considered the quote unquote boss on
the ground, he had people to answer to as well.
He's just a mid level bureaucrat. He don't make decisions
like this. He had to kick that up the chain
to move Mukesi and the rest of them. So they
all failed from the top down, from the federal government
all the way down to the state, and now all
the way back to this judge. Absolute failures a top
of absolute failures. It may very well be that the
disclosure of Jeffrey Epstein's grand jury records could reveal the
fair treatment did not occur, and that mister Epstein might
have escaped appropriate punishment through some failing of our justice system.
Haffel said, yeah, well, how about releasing the documents then instead,
you'll just sit on them right like a dragon hoarding
its gold. Post hasn't decided whether to appeal, but he
said state law can't be ignored on a whim or
to satisfy the public's curiosity. The court's interpretation of the
scope of the state law. End of the phrase furthering
justice is governed and constrained by the established rules of
statutory construction, Halfley wrote. Attorneys for the Posts said they
were reviewing the order and had not yet decided whether
to appeal. I really hope they do. I mean, I
know it's an extra cost on them to appeal stuff
like this, and you know, the attorney fees get to
be a bit excessive. But you would think that in
the interest of justice, in the interest of transparency, that
they would release this documentation. And really what it comes
down to is this judge's interpretation of the law. That's
all it is. But he said state law can't be
ignored on a whim or to satisfy the public's curiosity.
In a statement, a comptroller and Clerk of the Courts,
Joe Abruzzo, said that while he hired a top media
lawyer to represent his office in the lawsuit, he wasn't
against the newspaper's request. While Florida statute is clear on
its prohibition of releasing information from grand jury cases, I
want to be clear that I have absolutely no objection
to releasing grand jury information in the Epstein case if
directed by the court. A Bruso said so what the
comptroller is saying. Look, I'll release this information, but I
have to be directed to do so by the court.
That's the only way that I can release this. And
once again it goes back to the judges, these guys
running around like their Taiwin lanister in the courtroom. He
hired Shane Voight, a Tampa attorney who won a one
hundred and forty million dollars verdict against Gawker on behalf
of retired professional wrestler Hulk Hogan and has represented others
in fights against news outlets, to represent the office. During
a hearing on October twenty second, Void argued that if
half of approved the newspaper's request, it would open the
floodgates for others to do the same. Well, so what
open the floodgates and then on a case by case
basis decide what should or what shouldn't be released. Why
is that so difficult? Oh? Is it going to cause
extra work for the clerks? God forbid? I mean, are
we supposed to just slow everything down and you know, oh, well,
let's wait on things here, because you know, we don't
have enough time or enough people. I don't even understand
what any of it means the floodgates will open. Well,
if they're legitimate requests, then maybe the floodgates need to
be opened, said he could craft the narrow order that
would assure the clerk wouldn't be inundated with demands for
grand jury records. Still, he said, after reviewing the law,
he determined the documents must remain secret. State Attorney Dave
Ahrenberg declined to comment on Halfle's decision. While the paper
initially named him in the lawsuit, he was dropped after
he claimed he didn't have the records. Executives of the newspaper,
which is owned by Gannet Gannet Company, said they were
disappointed by Halfle's decision. Yeah, you would think so. Right.
As a newspaper organization, the idea is to get as
much information to the public as possible, let the public decide.
And what better way to do that than to provide
raw data such as transcripts. I don't need the middleman, right,
provide us with the transcripts, provide us with the information
that we need, and let us decide what's going on
here as the public. But no, they'll keep everything hidden.
And then what he'll do is he'll cite some obscure
law here. Oh well, it'll cause a flood of other requests,
and all of it is nonsense. Whenever I hear any
of this stuff, all I hear is no, we don't
want to be transparent. No, you can't know the truth.
That's basically what I hear every time they start in
on the nonsense. While the Post appreciates the court's consideration
of the issues, we respectfully disagree with the legal conclusion
that public access to the Epstein grand jury materials is
not warranted under the circumstances, said Marrable Perez Wadsworth, president
of Gannett News USA Today Network and publisher of USA Today.
It is our right and responsibility to report all aspects
of this case, and we will continue to diligently seek
the facts in our pursuit of transparency. Can't argue with that,
and props to them for doing it. I mean, is
it too much to ask to have some transparency or
as the public to have the proper information in a
case that is so important. Post Executive editor Rich Christie
echoed those sentiments. For sixteen years, the Post has been
driven to report on the heinous acts of Jeffrey Epstein
for two reasons, justice for the victimized girls and accountability
for our readers. He said, today's ruling by Circuit Judge Haffl,
while disappointing, does not deter us from our mission of
furthering justice for Epstein's young victims. The Post will always
fight to shine a spotlight wherever it is needed to
expose the actions or in actions of those charged with
serving and protecting the public period. He concluded, Hey, I'll
tell you what, I'm all for that, and I'll be
right here with you, Ryde and Shotgun as far as
trying to get these transcripts, because it's a big deal.
It's a huge deal. And I can't express enough how
important that on prosecution agreement is in protecting these people. Still,
and all of this plays such a huge part in
that the ruling was a blow to efforts to unravel
the sordid case that grabbed international attention. It also came
on a day that a federal jury in New York
began deliberating whether Epstein's longtime girlfriend co conspirator Gleain Maxwell
recruited in groom teen's for his pleasure. The fifty nine
year old British socialite, co conspirator, general all around scusbag
bipedal serpent faces a lengthy prison term if connected if
convicted of multiple charges in connection with the sex trafficking scheme.
During the October hearing, the newspaper's attorneys argued that the
case was unique. More than fifteen years has passed. Epstein
is dead, so none of the information can be used
against him. The sixty six year old financier pedophile who
counted former President Bill Clinton and Britain's Prince Andrew his friends,
hung himself allegedly in a Manhattan jail cell in August
twenty nineteen while awaiting trial on dozens of sex trafficking
charges in New York. Again, he's dead. None of this
information can be used against him or anything like that.
So I don't understand how it won't be released. Now. Look,
if he was still alive and there was a chance
that this information could be used or all right, I
get it. I might not agree with it, but I
get it. I don't agree with it, and I don't
get it in this instance. The guy's dead, he's rotting.
It's time for transparency. A dozen girls said they were
sexually abused. Only one testified as part of a twenty
nineteen investigation titled The First Failure. Sources familiar with the
grand jury proceedings told the Post that while more than
a dozen teens told Palm Beach police that Epstein molested them,
only one, a fourteen year old girl, was called to testify.
And this is what I talk about a lot in
reference how only one girl was called to give testimony,
and how it flashes shades to what we saw here
in the Maxwell trial with only four girls being called. Well,
I understand the scopes a little bit different. It's just
for those of us who have been through this already,
it's concerning to see the sources said Krisher's top lieutenants
villified the team. Instead of focusing on the abuse she
suffered at the hands of the wealthy pedophile, they quizzed
her about her social media activity, which included references to
boys and drinking. Her posts on her MySpace page were
We're given to Kursher by Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz,
one of Epstein's top flight attorneys, and that was the strategy. Then,
it's the strategy now, and it'll continue to be the
strategy until these juries wake up and start convicting these people.
We all know that the girl were absolutely destroyed by
not only the authorities, but by Epstein's attorneys. Oh they're
talking to boys, they were smoking weed, they drank on
their MySpace page. Really, let me ask you, how many
of you out there, as young teenagers didn't do any
of those things? I know we all did. I know
I did. If you're gonna base my life on what
I did as a young man, then boy, I'll tell
you I'd be in big trouble. Her alleged treatment by
state prosecutors could explain why grand jurors indicted Epstein on
the lone prostitution charge instead of multiple counts of child
molestation that were sought by the police. The prostitution charge
ignored the tender age of Epstein's accusers and the fact
that teens under the age of eighteen couldn't legally consent
to sex. We've talked about that from the jump too.
How can you even call a girl under eighteen a
prostitute when they can't even consent to sex? How is that?
Even logical legal experts say prosecutors will tremendous influence over
grand jurors who aren't skilled in the law. Cynically, some
embrace a time honored maxim that a prosecutor, if he desired,
could indict a ham sandwich. And this is a fact
as well. You know, the grand jury rooms are places
where indictments definitely come down at a huge swell. The
statement you get a ham sandwich indicted at a grand
jury certainly rings true because it's something that a lot
of people talk about who are in the know. After
his death, scores of young women came forward publicly describing
how Epstein sexually assaulted them at his home in Palm Beach,
his penthouse apartment in Manhattan, his ranch in New Mexico,
and his private island in the Virgin Islands. Some said
he forced them to have sex with his celebrity friends
while aboard his private jet, the Lolita Express. Many teen
victims were from Palm Beach County, like teens from Royal
Palm Beach and John I. Leonard High Schools. Many were
allured to Epstein's homes with the promise of being paid
two hundred dollars to give him a massage. He greeted
them wearing little more than a towel. He offered to
pay them more, to disrobe, let him fondle them, and
to have sex. Boy, what does that all sound like?
Sounds like a bunch of testimony we just heard, doesn't it.
Imagine this testimony mirrors that testimony. And if they would
have actually done their job during this first arrest and
had more than one of the victims give their testimony
to the Grand Jerry, a lot of this could have
been stopped. Perhaps the girls, some from hardscrabble backgrounds, were
promised careers in high fashion college educations or other perchs
that were beyond their reach. The Grand Jerry mark the
beginning of when the case spun out of control. Angry
at Chrishier's handling, at his agent's angry at Chrisher's handling
of his agency's investigation, Palm Beach Police Chief Michael Ryder
went to the FBI. Ultimately, in his secret deal, South
Florida attorney Alex Acosta agreed to shelve a fifty three
page federal indictment against Epstein if he would plead guilty
to state prostitution charges. And now remember it's not just
a costa here. He's the scumbag with no spine, no
doubt about it, and he deserves his infamy for his role.
But he wasn't the one who made the decision. He
might have been the one who filed it up the
chain of command, but he didn't okay it, that's for sure.
As part of the so called non prosecution agreement, Krisher
added a charge of solicitation of a minor for prostitution.
Federal prosecutors insisted on the second charge because it would
force Epstein to register as a sex offender. How that
workout in New Mexico. Oh, that's right. He didn't have
to register there because he knew he planned all of this.
He took precautions. On June thirtieth, two thousand and eight,
Epstein pleaded guilty in Palm Beach County Circuit Court to
both prostitution charges. He served thirteen months of an eighteen
month sentence and a largely vacant wing of the county stockade.
He was given liberal work release privileges. He was allowed
to spend up to twelve hours a day, six days
a week working at a private foundation he created months earlier.
The fallout from what one state prosecutor described as the
deal of the century was far reaching if delayed, and
not only was Epstein out, according to some of these
other accusers, he was abusing them while he was out
on this work release program. Fantastic job done by the
federal government. Huh, fantastic job done by the Florida state authorities.
After Epstein was charged in New York, a Costa resigned
as former President Donald Trump's labor secretary when questions were
raised about his involvement in crafting the non prosecution agreement.
Before his resignation, a Costa sought to blame Krisher. He
claimed he was forced to clean up a mess Krisher
created when the state prosecutor refused to file serious charges
against Epstein. Acosta pointed out that Krisher originally offered to
allow Epstein to plead guilty to aggravate an assault, serve
no jail time, and have the felony record a raised
if he complied with the terms of his probation. That
was unacceptable, Acosta said during a nationally televised news conference.
So basically, it's a point him game, right, you did it,
he did it, she did it. And in reality, what
they do is they cause enough confusion then that nobody's
held responsible. Krisher responded that Acosta was attempting to rewrite history.
In a prepared statement, he said, I can emphatically state
that mister Acosta's recollection of this matter is completely wrong.
A federal investigation in twenty twenty found that Acosta place
too much trust in Krisher. A two year state investigation
completed last year concluded that Krisher had little input into
the nonprofit prosecution agreement and found no wrongdoing. State investigators
were denied access to the grand jury proceedings. So not
only has the public locked out, they locked out the
state investigators who were investigating wrongdoing here in the FDL report. Yeah,
nothing to see here, folks, keep on moving. Everything is
just fine. We're all fine. After Epstein died, authorities in
the US Virgin Islands worked with those who were administering
his estate to set up a fund to compensate his victims.
They wrapped up their work in August after paying slightly
more than one hundred and twenty one million to more
than one hundred and thirty five people, According to the
New York Times, Look, this is a situation that, obviously,
as you can tell here, has been going on for
quite some time, and there was hope that this judge
was going to release these grand jury documents. Well that's
not going to occur. So the battle continues for transparency, folks,
and we'll continue to report on it and we'll continue
to talk about it until there's some movement and we
finally get a glimpse behind the curtain. All Right, folks,
that's gonna do it for me today, and I'll be
back later on, obviously with a evening update and expect
some more context episodes as well. If you'd like to
contact me, you can do that at Bobby Kapuchi at
ProtonMail dot com. That's Bo bbu Y c ap Ucci
at ProtonMail dot com. You can also find me on
Twitter at bobbuy Underscore cap Ucci. The link that we
discussed can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. Before we dive
into the content for today, I wanted to take a
minute to wish all of you and your families a very,
very merry Christmas. I know that it's been a rough year,
rough couple of years for just about all of us,
but hopefully for the next couple of days at least,
we can put all of that stuff to the side,
and we can spend this time with our family, our
loved ones, our friends, whoever it may be, and take
an account on what good stuff we have in our lives. Right.
I know it's easy to focus on how bad things
are and how disastrous the world around us is, but
every now and then we have to take a minute
to appreciate the good things in life and appreciate the
people who we love and care about and the people
who care about and love us. And what better time
to do that than right here around the holidays. So
I wanted to let all of you know how much
I care about you, because there are a million other
options for you out there, yet you continuously choose to
come to my podcast and hang out with me and
shoot the shit about a heavy ass subject. So I
appreciate all of you, and I am very thankful for
all of you as well, and I hope that you
take the time out of your schedule, the time out
of your day, whatever it may be, and carve that
time out for yourself and your loved ones. Because guess what, folks,
Life is real short, right, and when it's all over,
it seems like it was just a minute. So if
we don't snatch some of that goodness one wee can. Boy,
oh boy, I'll tell you what. So, I really hope
that all of you, from the bottom of my heart,
have an amazing Christmas, an amazing holiday season, and let's
hope that this upcoming year is the best one that
any of us have ever had. With that said, we're
gonna jump into an article today from Insider, and this
article is about the juror notes again. And I figured
that we have this recess time and a little more
time to build on this topic, we might as well
do that, considering it was probably the most quote unquote
important thing to occur during the deliberations. So I figured
we'd dive back into this and spend our morning talking
about these notes once again. This article is from Jacob
shamsy in over at Insider, and the headline is notes
in Glaigne Maxwell child sex trafficking trial show that they're
taking her accusers seriously, legal experts say. Now, we read
about this previously over at Law and Crime. The day
that this was happening, we had a breakdown from Adam Klasfeld. Now,
with a few days to chew on it a little bit.
Let's see what Insider has come up with. On Wednesday afternoon,
the twelve jurors deliberating Glaigne Maxwell's fate gave everyone a surprise. No,
they hadn't come to a decision yet, and no they
wouldn't reach one before Christmas. That the jurors needed more
than two days to decide whether Maxwell would be found
guilty or acquitted of six complicated counts wasn't necessarily unexpected. Maxwell,
a child of the former British media baron Robert Maxwell,
stands accused of trafficking girls to Jeffrey Epstein for sex
and sometimes participating in sexual abuse herself. She has all
the charges. So at first glance, it would look to
me right as somebody who's sitting in the peanut gallery
and who doesn't even watch Law and Order, never mind
know about procedurals in the courtroom. But it would look
to me as if the jury is just being very
thorough here. They're going over every last bit of information
that they can so that they don't forget anything or
leave anything out. And to be honest with you, if
my life was on the line and I was a defendant,
I'd want the jury to take their time too, be
very very meticulous if you will. But you know, the
cynic in me, like I said yesterday, wants me to say,
oh man, this is bad news for the prosecution. The
defense is really going to, you know, find a way
to wiggle off here. And the cynic in me wants
to say that. But who knows what's going to happen
and who knows what these jurors are thinking. You want
to think that these jurors, you know, I heard the
same testimony that we did and know that Maxwell was
a huge part of it. But again, we're talking about
human beings here, and human nature in general is unreliable
jurors and other trials have taken longer for less complicated allegations,
but the prosecutors and defense attorneys had both previously expected.
The jurors want to go home before the US District
Court in Manhattan closed its doors on Thursday, ahead of
Maxwell's birthday on Christmas Day, And that's a juror you
would think, right, yeah, I want to get this wrapped up.
I mean, now you got to go to Christmas dinner.
You know your family's gonna have questions you can't talk
about it. You know, you're like, hey, pass me the
ham But you know what I heard about Glenn Maxwell,
and that's what you're thinking as a juror in your
head as you're having your Christmas dinner. Maybe it's just
my anxiety, but there's no way that I'd want that
hanging over me. I'd be like, no, we got to
get this hammered out, folks. I need to be able
to eat my turkey in peace and not think about
Glenn Maxwell's gross ass. But these jurors, they're being deliberate, right,
they're being very surgical with what they're doing. Alice and Nathan,
the judge overseeing the case, squeeze closing arguments and her
charging conference into one marathon day on Monday, giving them
a couple of days to deliberate in the late afternoon
before continuing on Tuesday and Wednesday. Once she offered to
keep the courthouse open for them Thursday, they responded with
a note, Nah, no, thank you. The jurors are scheduled
to resume deliberations Monday. So far, they've sent just a
handful of juror notes with questions. So the judge was like, hey,
so you guys want to come in on Monday, you know,
do some deliberation. Maybe jury's like, nah, we think we're
going to pass. It's kind of like when your boss
comes into you, right, it's a holiday weekend and you're like, hey, Bobby,
look bro, I'm gonna need you to put in a
few extra hours here on this holiday. What do you think? Yeah,
the answer is no, my friend, And basically what the
jurors said to the court right there. The jurors are
scheduled to resume deliberations Monday. So far, they've sent just
a handful of juror notes with questions. Three legal experts
Insider interviewed caution that the information we have thus far
is too limited to draw strong conclusions about what jurors
may be thinking, except that they're taking the testimony from
accusers seriously. And that's important, right. I think that's a
huge tell they should be taking that testimony seriously. It's
the most important part of the whole entire witness package here.
So if they're not taking it seriously, Houston, we have
a problem. But Lisa Bloom, an attorney representing eight Epstein accusers,
said it may be a bad sign for prosecution that
the still having come to a unanimous conclusion. Yeah. Sorry,
I don't really have any good things to say about
Lisa Bloom. Not really a fan of her or her mother,
Gloria Allred. I'm not a fan. And the things that
they talk about when it comes to the Jeffrey Epstein case.
I don't want to say that they absolutely clueless, but
they're absolutely clueless. There may be at least one juror
who has reasonable doubt the end over the weekend that
could grow. Bloom told inside her I've watched hundreds of
juries and high profile cases, and many in my own cases.
And when they decide to break and take a long
holiday weekend and come back, I think that's generally a
good sign for the defense. Or flip it around, maybe
that jur is gonna go home, take a look around
at they're family members, their little thirteen year old nieces
and nephews, and come to a completely different conclusion. The
request for Carolyn's interview could be good news for Maxwell.
In their time deliberating, the jurors have sent a handful
of notes, two of which have stood out. They requested
an FBI interview of Carolyn, one of Maxwell's accusers who
testified using only her first name, and they asked whether
the testimony of Annie Farmer, the last accuser in the
child could count towards two of the conspiracy counts against Maxwell.
That goes against the defense because they're asking if the
part of Annie's story, the transportation part, can be used
to convict Maxwell. And the judge said yes. So remember
that's a big deal because the wrench was Annie being
over the age of consent in New Mexico. I think
that probably did make the defense feel pretty good, because
that's really where they focused on challenging the victim's testimony.
Huntley Taylor told Insider and Carolyn in particular, because she
did she didn't mention Maxwell to the FBI. Carolyn has
spoken to the FBI a number of times following what
she said was years of sexual abuse at the hands
of Epstein. In her trial testimony, she said Maxwell sometimes
scheduled sexualized massages with Epstein at his Palm Beach, Florida home.
And we know that that's what so many different girls
have said. I mean, we're not even talking about the
ones that have given the testimony here. What about all
of the unnamed girls that we're never going to hear
from are their voices not important to their stories, not
matter to the fact that they were victimized and abused
by Jeffrey Epstein and Glenne Maxwell, not matter because maybe
they're from Eastern Europe or something. All of it is
just an absolute abomination. According to notes from a two
thousand and seven FBI interview, Carolyn didn't name Maxwell as
one of the people whose scheduled massage, but just a
woman with an accent. Maxwell's defense attorneys have high highlighted
what they viewed as discrepancies in Carolyn's stories as a
way to discredit or testimony. Bloom said, jury notes means
that jurors are taking Maxwell's lawyer's arguments seriously. It means
the jury is very carefully reviewing the evidence, and at
least one of them thinks that that the cross examination
and those FBI statements were significant enough to request them,
Bloom told Insider. Because the FBI interviews aren't recorded or transcribed,
they can't be entered into evidence in a trial. The
agents who sit in on those interviews just have notes
called a three o two document, but not a deposition
transcript that jurors asked for. Yeah, and the three oh
two is what they do whenever they're questioning you, Right,
whenever you get questioned by the FBI, they hit you
with that three to oh two, and that ends up
being their report, and they'll use that report to try
and catch you up in aery or whatever it might be.
But those reports are not admissible. Nathan declined to give
the FBI notes and instead directed them to the evidence
and trial transcripts they already had. Something Bloom said that
Jerry may find frustrating. Jerry's definitely don't like when things
are kept from them. Bloom said, I don't know who
they're going to hold this against. Would they hold it
against the prosecution or would they hold it against the
defense that it didn't come into evidence. Of course, it's
not the fault of either, it's just the rules of evidence.
Oh thanks Lisa Bloom. I mean you couldn't find anyone
else to talk to yet to go and find Lisa
Bloom of all people. Good Lord. Moira Penza, a former
federal prosecutor who led the case against Nexium cult leader
Keith Rainiery, pointed out that the process of impeaching or
discrediting a witness was harder than it looked, even if
Carolyn re different details about her story over time. That
doesn't mean HER's story was necessarily inconsistent. She may have
simply emphasized elements about Epstein earlier in time because the
FBI investigation and lawsuit she filed were centered on Epstein.
You'll see that even very experienced trial lawyers trying to
say this person changed their story is actually much harder
than you would think, Pensas said, because often it is real,
it isn't really very clear cut. The fact that the
jurors asked for only the FBI three h two of
Carolyn also bodes well for the rest of the case.
Pensas said, after all Maxwell's attorneys grilled the other three accusers,
Farmer as well as Jane and Kate, who testified under
pseudonyms about their FBI interviews, and jurors didn't ask for
notes about theirs. I don't think that we're seeing evidence
so far, though the excuse me. I don't think that
we are seeing evidence so far through the note process
that the jury is burying this defense. Penza said that
there was a whole conspiracy for all of those victims
to manipulate their story to implicate Glen Maxwell. Right and
that's basically what the defense wants to say, that all
of the stories were manipulated, that the uh, the survivors
are all lying, they're misremembering. Hell, maybe they even all
got together to concoct this through their lawyers. You know,
that's the kind of defense that we're seeing from Maxwell here.
The jury questions Annie farm The jury question about Annie
Farmers seems clearcut when for the prosecutors. Later on Monday,
jurors asked Nathan whether they can consider Farmer's testimony as
conspiracy to crime and counts one and three, which would
allow them to find Maxwell guilty of two of the
conspiracy counts against her. So that's important, right, and it
definitely leads into hopefully a conviction. Here, Maxwell's lawyers appear furious.
Her attorney, Christian Everdell, asked Nathan to give a qualified
answer about the limited about the limited nature of Farmer's testimony.
Nathan ultimately sided with Assistant US Attorney Maureen Comy, giving
a simple yes as an answer. Bloom said Nathan's clear
as a bell answer was a victory for prosecutors. Anytime
you can get the judge who's the authority in the
courtroom to give a definitive yes to a question that's
a definite win for the prosecution. She said, I could
see that for sure, right. Look, at the end of
the day, it's about getting all of these little w's
and adding them up to a gigantic win that turns
into an indictment. Penza said the question may reveal another
element of how jurors worth thinking that they were closely
focused on Maxwell's role in Epstein's sexual abuse operation. Absolutely,
they want to set it up as, oh, this is
about Jeffrey Epstein. This is to go after Jeffrey Epstein
because he wasn't punished the first time around. Well, guess what,
think what you want. But the fact of the matter
is this Maxwell was there every step of the way,
had her hands on the reins every step of the way.
She's only getting what she deserves at this point. It
is highly excuse me. Aside from the specific requests about
Carolyn and Annie, the jurors also asked for copies of
transcripts for testimony from all four accusers and the trial.
They also asked for transcripts of testimony from Juana Lessi,
Epstein's former Palm Beach butler for twenty years, who was
one of the prosecution star witnesses. If jurors taking all
the accusers seriously, it may be harder for them to
disentangle Maxwell from Epstein. According to Penza, at the end
of the day, it's going to be difficult for the
jurors to believe that all of these women were lying
about Glaine Maxwell's role, Penza said, And that's what it
comes down to, right The absolute sheer volume of accusations
against Glaine Maxwell is going to weigh heavy with the jury.
You have to think anyway, all of these people with
these same stories coming out and telling them it is
not good for you. Maxwell's defense attorneys have argued that
Epstein compartmentalized his life and that Maxwell didn't know about
his sexual proclivities. But Farmer's story is decidedly less complicated
than that of the other accusers in this case. She
testified in the trial that she spent a weekend at
Epstein's New Mexico ranch when she was sixteen years old,
during which Maxwell gave her a sexualized massage and seemed
to groom her for sex with Epstein. Farmer's more limited
experience with Epstein and Maxwell one weekend rather than years
of abuse that the three other accusers testified about at
the trial. Give jurors a different way to examine Maxwell's
role in Epstein's life. And I've been convinced of this
since the beginning, meaning that Annie's testimony would be the
one that sinks them. They made a very crucial error
targeting Annie Farmer Folks, and it's really coming back to
bite them in the ass now. Because she was unshakable
on the witness stand, you couldn't impune her honor or
her integrity, and it gives you a glimpse at what
some of these other girls could have had in their
future if they weren't abused by Maxwell and Epstein. It
looks like the jury is concentrating on what evidence is
there that Maxwell knew what was happening when she wasn't
in the room, Penzus said, when she was grooming these
girls and recruiting them. With their question, Penza said, jurors
appeared to be zeroing in on exactly what Maxwell knew
about Epstein praying on teen girls. It's not that the
problem section has to prove that she saw what happened
with her own eyes, she said, even if she was
just burying her head in the sand. It's the law.
If you bury your head in the sand, then you
were just as criminally culpable. And that's the facts. You can't,
you know, say, oh, well I didn't know, I had
no idea, and think you're going to get off. Go
try that after you get a speeding ticket or something
with the cops. Just doesn't work out well for you.
And I don't think that defense would work out well
here either. Now, I certainly don't have a crystal ball, right,
and I certainly am biased hoping that she gets convicted.
But I would think that on the back of this testimony,
especially especially with Annie's testimony bringing up the rear of
the way it did, that an indictment is inevitable. And
you would hope, especially for the survivors, that that's what
happened here, because, boy, let me tell you, maxwell walking
quite possibly is one of the biggest travesties in the
history of the world. So let's hope that that does
not occur. All right, folks, Well, that's gonna do it
for the second day of Christmas recess here, and we're
only gonna have the one episode today. As far as
you know daily updates, and obviously I'll have more context
episodes for you. I posted the first one, the Khaliff
Browder episode. I have two more that go along with
that series. We're gonna finish off the Women Who Enabled
Epstein series, and then I have a couple of other
things that I'm going to post as well as far
as context goes, to get us prepared for the upcoming week.
Now tomorrow, I haven't really decided yet what I'm going
to do if I'm gonna pop on at all or
maybe take the day off. I'm leaning towards taking the
morning off and just doing context episodes. But we'll see
what happens. We'll see how I feel, and uh, if
I get up early enough, maybe I'll hop on and
we'll go through a new article as well. We'll just uh,
I guess we'll just have to play it by ear.
Either way, there'll be context episodes for you and uh yeah,
all that other good stuff. All right, everybody, So I
hope all of you have an amazing day and hopefully
you're all relaxing and all of that jazz like we
talked about in the opening, And it is my greatest
wish that this next year coming up for all of
us is just the greatest one ever, folks. So with
that said, I hope everybody enjoys their day, enjoys their family,
and I will be back later. If you'd like to
contact me, you can do that at Bobby Kapucci at
ProtonMail dot com. That's bo Bby c ap Cci at
ProtonMail dot com. Can also find me on Twitter at
bo bby underscore c ap you c c I. The
link that we discussed can be found in the description box.