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<v Speaker 1>I've had the great honor, the great privilege of working

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<v Speaker 1>with some really good people. Raphel Davis is one of

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<v Speaker 1>those guys. He is was a leader at Purdue, was

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<v Speaker 1>the leader in the Big Ten Conference, continues to be

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<v Speaker 1>a leader with his camps as well and on the

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<v Speaker 1>Big Ten Network as well as a basketball analyst both

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<v Speaker 1>in studio and at games at various arenas, and he

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<v Speaker 1>joins us here on ex'es and bros. How are you,

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<v Speaker 1>my friend? Happy holidays to you and your family. What's

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<v Speaker 1>going on?

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<v Speaker 2>I appreciate that. I appreciate that intro. I appreciate you

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned in our camps. It's been great. I'm doing well.

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<v Speaker 2>Glad to be talking with you. Happy holidays, see you

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<v Speaker 2>guys as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thanks so much. You were a Big Ten Player

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<v Speaker 1>of the Year defensively, and you were on All Big

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<v Speaker 1>Ten defensive teams twice. Sometimes there are certain sacrifices that

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<v Speaker 1>certain stars have to make in basketball. How do you

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<v Speaker 1>know when to do that? Because you were a talented

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<v Speaker 1>player in high school, you could score too, right, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you could score when you wanted, But there are certain

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<v Speaker 1>things that you needed to do in order for your

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<v Speaker 1>team to compete for Big ten in national titles. How

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<v Speaker 1>did you know when to do it?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh for sure, because I mean I came in from

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<v Speaker 2>Matt Paynter for coach Payne as a score I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I scored over two thousand points in high school. I

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<v Speaker 2>tell kids all the time that, I mean I averaged

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<v Speaker 2>thirty a game in high school. And I tell kids

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<v Speaker 2>that I got to Purdue and I just couldn't get

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<v Speaker 2>off the bench. I mean, I just couldn't play. And

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<v Speaker 2>it gets to a point where it's a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of everything. It gets to a point where my freshman

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<v Speaker 2>year for Due Louis is in the CBI to Santa

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<v Speaker 2>Clara at mac Arena, and I don't even know if

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<v Speaker 2>most people know what the CBI is. And then that

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<v Speaker 2>next year as a sophomore, we finished last place in

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<v Speaker 2>the Big ten. So we're at the bottom of the bottom.

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<v Speaker 2>We had six guys transfer out, and this was before

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<v Speaker 2>the portal. We only returned. We returned three scholarship guys

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<v Speaker 2>and we brought in five freshmen, and then a transfer

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<v Speaker 2>in John Knakiz came in around October around Halloween. So

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<v Speaker 2>it was a thing where that year our assistant would

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<v Speaker 2>tell me, hey, Ray, like, who's going to guard DeAndre Russell,

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<v Speaker 2>who's gonna guard Tramp Petway, who's gonna guard DJ Knuble,

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<v Speaker 2>Who's gonna guard all these guys? And if we don't

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<v Speaker 2>have anybody to guard them, we'll finish the last place again.

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<v Speaker 2>So that was that was a little motivation. I could

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<v Speaker 2>be embarrassed, I guess, being one of the only older

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<v Speaker 2>guys on that wing. But then also I just didn't

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<v Speaker 2>play as much. I just didn't play a lot as

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<v Speaker 2>a freshman. As a sophomore, our hand assistant coach Coach Owens,

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<v Speaker 2>who's now a DePaul with coach Holtman. He and this

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<v Speaker 2>was my guy. I knew Coach Owens as I was

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<v Speaker 2>a little kid, so he looked me dead in my

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<v Speaker 2>face after my sophomore year, said you're the worst defender

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<v Speaker 2>I recruited, and if that doesn't change, you won't play here.

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<v Speaker 2>But then he also set me down all summer and

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<v Speaker 2>watched film with me. So the thing where a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit of pride, a little bit of want to play

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit, but then also knowing where Purdue was

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<v Speaker 2>at that point, I used to tell my teammates if

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<v Speaker 2>we suck, nobody's gonna want to nobody's gonna remember us

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<v Speaker 2>when we come back here fifteen years from now. So

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<v Speaker 2>we figured that thing out.

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<v Speaker 1>So tough love from a coach, tough love from you

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<v Speaker 1>as a teammate to other teammates as well, which I welcome.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's awesome. I think that's the way how

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<v Speaker 1>you coach, and that's what good teammates are all about.

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<v Speaker 1>As a guy who runs camps now and then we'll

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<v Speaker 1>get into the big ten, do you feel that's the

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<v Speaker 1>right way to teach campers or do you prepare them

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<v Speaker 1>for that? And if sohow, Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Especially from my campus, Like I have a one of

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<v Speaker 2>my guys, he grew up with me. He started with

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<v Speaker 2>us in sixth grade. He's now a junior and he's

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<v Speaker 2>at a Cocomo High school and he has offers from

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<v Speaker 2>Eastern Michigan. He is he's getting looked at from a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of high major D one schools. But I tell

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<v Speaker 2>him all the time, if you he's a guard, he's

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<v Speaker 2>a he's a point guard. He's about six to two.

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<v Speaker 2>He's athletic, he could jump, he can finish at the realm.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's fine for high school. That's great for high school.

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<v Speaker 2>You go get in the lane and make a play.

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<v Speaker 2>But I tell him, if you can't make a stand

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<v Speaker 2>still catching shoe jumper, if you can't make a fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>foot off a ball screen when they're playing drop coverage,

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<v Speaker 2>if you can't take care of the ball, you just

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<v Speaker 2>won't play. Because for players like him, he's a little

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<v Speaker 2>high level, he has a chance. So it's about for us,

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<v Speaker 2>we got to prepare them. We got to prepare him

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<v Speaker 2>to go play two minutes a game and be really

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<v Speaker 2>effective in that two minutes, so he gets ten minutes

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<v Speaker 2>with rises and rises. So we're in the same way.

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<v Speaker 2>But for our kids that we do have kids that

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<v Speaker 2>are just there for fun, the kids that they may

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<v Speaker 2>not make their high school team. So for those kids,

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<v Speaker 2>we show them different ways how to stay in basketball.

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<v Speaker 2>We may introduce them to a manager and produced staff.

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<v Speaker 2>We may take them to Michigan State and let them

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<v Speaker 2>talk to NEX or something like that and just learn

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<v Speaker 2>a different role within the sports program where you don't

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<v Speaker 2>have to be a player. So it just we meet

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<v Speaker 2>you where you are. But if you're a guy and

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<v Speaker 2>we think you have a chance and we think you're

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<v Speaker 2>going to go make some hay, we keep it real

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<v Speaker 2>with you. We don't sugarcoat anything, even with the parents.

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<v Speaker 2>And I tell the parents all the time, We're not babysitting.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not a guy that's trying to live through your kid.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just trying to get them to the next level,

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<v Speaker 2>prepare them.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that. Man, what a great message. I wish

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<v Speaker 1>more people would would take that role on in life,

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<v Speaker 1>not just in basketball and not just in sports. Rofel

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<v Speaker 1>Davis joining us here on Ex's and Bros. You watched

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<v Speaker 1>the Michigan Arkansas game last night. It was a back

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<v Speaker 1>and forth affair. Michigan and Michigan stay both bumping in

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<v Speaker 1>of the top twenty five this week? How good do

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<v Speaker 1>you think Michigan can be? And then we'll focus on

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<v Speaker 1>the Spartans.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to overdo it, but I think Michigan.

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<v Speaker 2>Michigan is talented enough to be a Final four team.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you look last night. They had that defensive

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<v Speaker 2>laps as part that second half where he was going

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<v Speaker 2>to keep the ball out of the lane. But Michigan

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<v Speaker 2>is going when they have when they have all of

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<v Speaker 2>their players clicking on the same page, they're one of

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<v Speaker 2>the best teams in the country. I mean, Danny Wolf

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<v Speaker 2>is just a hard guard. He's just a hardcover seventh

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<v Speaker 2>foot I mean, I think he had nine tests this

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<v Speaker 2>last night, and I just don't remember the last seven

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<v Speaker 2>foot guy to have ten assists in the game. So

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<v Speaker 2>I think with Danny leading the offense, I just wish,

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<v Speaker 2>I wish at the end of that game he would

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<v Speaker 2>have been able to make a play because they were

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<v Speaker 2>kind of going through him a little bit. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think with Roddy Gal, Danny Wolf Lad Golden, that gives

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<v Speaker 2>you one of the better trios in the country. And

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<v Speaker 2>then you look at if Nabari Burnett can make shots,

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<v Speaker 2>if Trade Donaldson continue to make shots, if you get

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<v Speaker 2>Rubin Jones going a little bit, I mean, obviously Sam

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<v Speaker 2>Watsons can shoot the ball from deep. So I think

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<v Speaker 2>this Michigan team, as long as they committed defending like

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<v Speaker 2>they had been. They had their little lapse yesterday where

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<v Speaker 2>they went to that zone to kind of struggle, but

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<v Speaker 2>if they can rebound and defend, they could definitely run

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<v Speaker 2>a table in a big ten to be one of

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<v Speaker 2>those final teams standing in the tournament.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's amazing how different they are just from a

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<v Speaker 1>year ago. Michigan a loser last night to Arkansas, but

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<v Speaker 1>had won seven in a row. Michigan State is a

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<v Speaker 1>team that's going to be off for a little bit now.

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<v Speaker 1>They don't play again until Tuesday, I think against Oakland

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<v Speaker 1>at LCA, where you and I called a game earlier

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<v Speaker 1>this year for Big Ten Network. They're a team that

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<v Speaker 1>they're back in the mold of what tom Izzo has built, toughness,

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<v Speaker 1>rebounding defense. Right, they have to say they've fallen in

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<v Speaker 1>love is probably unfair. But they shoot a lot of threes,

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit more than I thought they would, And

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if they have truly high skilled three

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<v Speaker 1>point shooters. What do you think Michigan State is made

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<v Speaker 1>of so far?

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<v Speaker 2>No, I agree with you, and I'm just happy they're

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<v Speaker 2>back to that. I'm happy they're back to that that

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<v Speaker 2>when I when I came into the Big Ten, even

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<v Speaker 2>watching the game in high school college game and it's

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<v Speaker 2>not like it's not like you're a punk or you're

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<v Speaker 2>a chump or anything, but when you see Michigan State

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<v Speaker 2>on the schedule, you you tense up a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a thing where you were you weren't scared

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<v Speaker 2>of Michigan State, but you were you were a little

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<v Speaker 2>worried about Michigan State. So I think so. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's one of those things where I think they're back

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<v Speaker 2>to who they were just identity wise. It's physically toughness,

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<v Speaker 2>rebounding the ball. I think they're running the transition extremely well.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, being able to get out on the run

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<v Speaker 2>has been really impressive to me playing those two guards

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<v Speaker 2>or Trey Hollerman and Jeremy Fear and I think they're back.

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<v Speaker 2>Once I saw I saw, I mean I saw Trey

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<v Speaker 2>Holloman throw out of you to coin car from half court,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's when I was kind of like, Okay, this

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<v Speaker 2>Michigan State team is back. But I do think, like

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<v Speaker 2>you said, they do shoot a bunch of jumpers sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>I can kill you on the road. But this this

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<v Speaker 2>team from compared to last season. Last year, when they

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<v Speaker 2>shouted a bunch of jumpers and they missed them, they

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<v Speaker 2>would lose those games. They had no chances, they had

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<v Speaker 2>no chance to win games if they didn't shoot it well.

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<v Speaker 2>This year, they can beat you in different ways. They

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<v Speaker 2>can beat you with the defense and get on the

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<v Speaker 2>glass to get out the transition. I think that's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>bogue well for them.

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<v Speaker 1>Look it's pretty early seven eight games, depending on which

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<v Speaker 1>team you're following. But the Big Ten has six teams

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<v Speaker 1>ranked in the top twenty five. I've never been a

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<v Speaker 1>big believer in preseason top twenty fives or really you

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<v Speaker 1>don't get there until you're at least into conference play

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<v Speaker 1>because they just don't think we know what teams are

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<v Speaker 1>just yet. But when you gloss over the Big Ten

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<v Speaker 1>and you see the depth of this conference, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>always been deep when you played as well, what's your

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<v Speaker 1>overall impression early on, maybe a third of the way

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<v Speaker 1>through the season or not quite at the third way

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<v Speaker 1>three cup point part of the season in the conference overall,

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<v Speaker 1>man think.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's gonna be one of the better Big

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<v Speaker 2>Ten seasons that we've seen in a long time. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you just the parody in the league. I think you

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<v Speaker 2>look now you see these games on a row. Rather

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<v Speaker 2>if it's Illinois going to Northwestern, or last night you

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<v Speaker 2>have Penn State going to Rutgers. I mean Northwestern at Iowa.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just I mean Perdue at Penn State. It's just

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<v Speaker 2>so it's so tough to win on the road. The

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<v Speaker 2>teams are so talented. I think this year in the

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<v Speaker 2>big team. When you look across the league, I think

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<v Speaker 2>this is one of the more talented leagues that we've

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<v Speaker 2>had in a while, especially this freshman class. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>CA Spara and Jackie Shonas has just been special. Derrick Queen,

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<v Speaker 2>he's just been special. I mean Dylan Harper's first overall

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<v Speaker 2>draft pick in my opinion. So I think talent level.

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<v Speaker 2>Talent level is special. I think the coaches in this

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<v Speaker 2>league this season are special. I just I think this

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<v Speaker 2>is one of those years where you have a bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of maybe two of the six seeds in the NCAA Tournament.

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<v Speaker 2>The last few years we've had a bunch of eight

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<v Speaker 2>to nine and ten seeds, if that makes sense. So

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<v Speaker 2>I think this is going to be a really good year.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we have a couple teams that can make

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<v Speaker 2>a real deal shot to that final four. It reminds

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<v Speaker 2>me of of that twenty fifteen season where you had

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<v Speaker 2>Wisconstant make it all the way, but Michigan State was

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<v Speaker 2>really good. You had Maryland that was really good. We

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<v Speaker 2>were really good. So I think this is one of

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<v Speaker 2>those seasons where Big ten gets back to kind of

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<v Speaker 2>that national dominance.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that twenty fifteen season, you were the Big Ten

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<v Speaker 1>Defensive Player of the Year. Raphael Davis Joiners from Big

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<v Speaker 1>Ten Network. You mentioned your alma mater, Perdue going into

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<v Speaker 1>Penn State, and really that game wasn't close. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>Penn State, how they got the energy and you know

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<v Speaker 1>what it's like playing there, that's usually a dud of

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<v Speaker 1>a place to play. Does that show you that on

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<v Speaker 1>any given night or does it show you the depth

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<v Speaker 1>of this conference in general? And we saw it again

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<v Speaker 1>last night Wisconsin losing their third straight game to Illinois.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that's a good indication of the depth

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<v Speaker 1>or is it just one of those situations where you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to find some upsets once in a while.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's just the depth of the conference.

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<v Speaker 2>And also just be given night, anybody can beat you,

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<v Speaker 2>I think. I think when you look about you think

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<v Speaker 2>about the twenty fifteen season, like we were just talking,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I can remember going in that year. You

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<v Speaker 2>just had to get to that Rutgers game. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if you remember how good Rutgers was, and there

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<v Speaker 2>was Eddie Jordan's years where Yeah, after that Rutgers game,

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<v Speaker 2>it was kind of that get right game. You know

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<v Speaker 2>what I mean, or you could get you can get

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<v Speaker 2>pinsed State, you get pinned State at home. It was

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<v Speaker 2>kind of one of those get right games there. I

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<v Speaker 2>think this year, you look across the league, there's not

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<v Speaker 2>many of those. There's not many opportunities where you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to go somewhere and expect to win. I mean, even

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<v Speaker 2>if I know Minnesota isn't a great team this year,

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<v Speaker 2>but Dawston Garcia is a really good player. If you

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<v Speaker 2>catch Dalston Garcia on a night where he can give

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<v Speaker 2>you forty, Minnesota could beat some people. So I think

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<v Speaker 2>this year the depth is serious. I think it's one

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<v Speaker 2>of those years where if you want to compete to

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<v Speaker 2>win the league, you really got to take care of

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<v Speaker 2>your home court. If you can win all your home games,

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<v Speaker 2>you can win half your road games. I think that

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<v Speaker 2>there will be enough to win the league this season.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think the road beings are top. I think

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<v Speaker 2>this year, and also you look back to when I play,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, Northwestern will be a home game for Purdue.

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<v Speaker 2>At times, Penn State would be dead, Minnesota would be dead.

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<v Speaker 2>But you look across the league now, Nope, Western has

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<v Speaker 2>a real home court advantage. I mean Nebraska's rocket. I

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<v Speaker 2>think you look at these teams, and you look at

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<v Speaker 2>the West Coast teams and you look at their crowdside this,

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<v Speaker 2>I think with those teams coming to the come of

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<v Speaker 2>East and come up playing the big can Arenas, that

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<v Speaker 2>may throw them off. So I think it's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be a lot of a lot of things going on

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<v Speaker 2>this season. But I think the team that takes care

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<v Speaker 2>of homes and sneaks someone away on the road, takes care.

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<v Speaker 1>Of business last thing for you before we let you go.

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<v Speaker 1>And I appreciate the time. I want your opinion on

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<v Speaker 1>the hardest places to play in the conference. I have

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<v Speaker 1>had this conversation through my experiences in calling Big Ten

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<v Speaker 1>basketball for fifteen to twenty years. My experience was that,

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<v Speaker 1>and I don't say this because you're here, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>our producer Trent Pali can verify this. I always felt

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<v Speaker 1>like Mackie Arena was the loudest place to deal with

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<v Speaker 1>in your opinion, give me the top five or top

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<v Speaker 1>three if you want loudest places in the Big Ten

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<v Speaker 1>to play as a visitor, your barn Macki Arena. If

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<v Speaker 1>we can agree, we would put in one who's close

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<v Speaker 1>after that, Yeah, I put.

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<v Speaker 2>Mack Arena first for sure. I think mackiw When it

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<v Speaker 2>gets going in there, man, it's tough to hear with

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<v Speaker 2>that old skilled build, with that concrete behind the wall,

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<v Speaker 2>that gets really loud. But then I think I put

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<v Speaker 2>Michigan State right there. You get Michigan State on a

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<v Speaker 2>noon tip on a Saturday, and the A zone is

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<v Speaker 2>going crazy. They're they're not all white. I mean they

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<v Speaker 2>especially when they're good. When they have an exciting team

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<v Speaker 2>like they have this season, they really get behind it

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a lot of it's a fun brand of basketball.

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<v Speaker 2>So I put Michigan State right there. I put when

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<v Speaker 2>I played, when I was in the Big Ten, I

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<v Speaker 2>would have put Maryland right there. And I think we

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<v Speaker 2>could have a chance we put Maryland back into that mix,

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<v Speaker 2>just because they're good at getting this season. But you

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<v Speaker 2>get to that under sixteen time out in that second half,

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<v Speaker 2>when they bring down that flag over the student section,

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<v Speaker 2>it gets it gets rockets in there. It hasn't been

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<v Speaker 2>a great crowd the last couple of years, but I

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<v Speaker 2>think they can get back. I think nowadays nowadays that

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<v Speaker 2>when I played. When I played, it was more of

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<v Speaker 2>a high school type of environment. But Rutgers is really

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<v Speaker 2>good now. Their environment is crazy. Rutgers has definitely one

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<v Speaker 2>of the better home course advantages in this league, which

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<v Speaker 2>is going to really help. It's really helped on freshmen

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<v Speaker 2>because you see last night Penn State was on that run.

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<v Speaker 2>They had a chance to win that game at the end,

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<v Speaker 2>and the fans. The fans really got Rutgers over the

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<v Speaker 2>top of my opinion. But I think those those three,

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<v Speaker 2>you had Indiana in there. Where Indiana has it going

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<v Speaker 2>this year, the fans seem to be a little upset

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<v Speaker 2>at coach Wilson, so it hasn't been great. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think Indiana when they're they're really good, they're right there.

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<v Speaker 2>But I put Nebraska. Nebraska's in that mix. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>care what anybody says, whether they're good, whether they're not good.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the best show in town that Pinnacle Bank Arena

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<v Speaker 2>when Nebraska has a good team come to town and

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<v Speaker 2>they fill that thing up. So I think those will

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<v Speaker 2>be that. I list Illinois maybe in there, but I

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<v Speaker 2>think Perdue, Michigan State, Rutgers, Maryland when they're good in Nebraska,

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<v Speaker 2>those would be mine. Because Nebraska, they start shooting off

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<v Speaker 2>that cannon and that it gets met.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, those are good choices. My choices have always

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<v Speaker 1>been Mackie and then MSU, you know, Breslin, and then

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<v Speaker 1>I usually put Indiana in there. Maryland's a really good

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<v Speaker 1>one because it's the largest I believe it's I think

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<v Speaker 1>maybe North Carolina might be a little bit larger, but

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<v Speaker 1>Maryland is the largest arena in the Big Ten and

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<v Speaker 1>it's one of the largest in the country. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>really good stuff. It's great information. Congratulations on the success,

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<v Speaker 1>not just on the floor but with the camps and

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<v Speaker 1>on TV. Appreciate the friendship very much. Have a great

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<v Speaker 1>holiday for you and your family. And thanks for the

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<v Speaker 1>time today, Bud.

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<v Speaker 2>You guys have a happy holiday to enjoy it. We'll

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<v Speaker 2>do man.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks again.