Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
where we left off with the tovin Owell interview with
the OIG Inspectors. Question, so you're saying it's common to
fill them out ahead of time, but it's not common
not to conduct the counts, Noel, the counts correct question. Okay,
how often were they when you worked in the shoe.
How often were the counts not conducted? Noel? They were done? Question?
They were always done when you were in there before. Noel. Yes. Question.
And this is again one of those things. If we
go back to the video from the days prior, because
we had to get the video from these days, if
we review that, are we going to is it going
to show you conducting the counts? Noel? Yeah, I don't
have to conduct the count because if I'm working with
two or more people, they could have did the count
So it doesn't necessarily have to be you're going to
see me on the video, but you will see the
counts being done if you get what I'm saying. Question. No,
I understand what you're saying, Noel. If three of us
are working, those two could have did it. It doesn't
have to be me redacted. So when you were in
the shoe, if you didn't do it, did the two
other people always do it? Noel? Yeah. Question? All right,
were you ever on count slips, your assigned count slips
that you personally didn't conduct? Noel? No question. So you
never signed? He gets cut off by Noel if I
ever signed the count slips. But that the night before
the roundsheet I did? Question? I'm sorry, what was that, Noel?
The round sheets? I did the account slips, No question.
The roundsheets? You did? What? Noel? On the ninth when
I filled out the entire count slips, I didn't conduct
every single round? Question? You didn't conduct every single round Noel,
no question. So what about on previous incidents, we can
switch over to the rounds. That's fine, In previous instances
when you worked in the shoe, where the rounds conducted
as displayed on the count sheets, Noel, No question. But
the count you're saying they were always conducted when you
worked in the shoe, Noel, yes. Question. So this was
just a rare instance, Noel, It wasn't rare. It was
because he was exhausted and he was tired, and he
didn't want to count, so we didn't count. Question. But
then you also say redacted at ten pm also was exhausted. Noel. Yes,
and yes, I know because I did it, and I
wasn't supposed to do it. That's why I didn't continue
to do it, because I'm really not supposed to count
to go down range by myself, so I didn't continue
to do it. Question, You didn't continue to do what Noel?
The count by myself question? All right, but you did
the entire count at ten pm, Noel. Yes. Question. Were
there other instances that you worked in the shoe where
other people were too tired to conduct their round Noel, No,
because I usually she gets cut off or the counts,
not rounds counts, Noel, Because I usually come in on
the shift prior. I don't work that, so I don't
know what goes on. Because there's the tired time question, right, Noel.
So I usually come in before that, so I don't
have to deal with that question. All right, But it
was just he gets cut off by Noel, It was
just one day. Question. It's the one day no conversations
were had. You try to wake them up. He didn't
wake up, so you just didn't do them, and then
you didn't even have to say like, hey man, we
need to do these things, or like there was just
an unspoken thing that he was tired, so you weren't
just going to do them. Noel, say that again, question,
I'm just trying to like it sounds like it would
be common practice to do this. If there's no conversation
that we're had. Usually it would be like, hey, if
this is the first time I'm not going to do something,
I would say like, hey, is it cool that we're
not doing this, or some kind of conversation, unless it
was something that you had learned or experienced in the
past that like we don't do counts at this time, Noel,
but I had never worked a shoe at that time. Foy.
This is calling for you to explain your interaction with
Thomas as it relates to the count in particular. Right redacted, correct, Foy,
he's asleep. What's the interaction? What did you say? What
did he what did he say? Did you ask one time,
did you ask multiple times? Did he affirmatively say no?
Or did he just continue to sleep. That's the level
of detail they're asking for. Question. Yeah, we're asking you
to explain all of your interactions with Thomas with regard
to the count's Noel. Well, when it was time to count,
because I remember I'm going upstairs to count, so I
wake him up to count, and he was like, I'm tired.
He was like, we have the count slip. I'm tired.
He went back to sleep. When the lieutenant came, I
woke them up because the lieutenant was coming. He fell
back asleep in front of the lieutenant. She said, hey,
you need to wake up. He couldn't stay awake. I
went upstairs and I counted, Foy, go back to the lieutenant.
Explain that in more detail. There's details that you're leaving
out of the interaction between Thomas and the lieutenant with
respect to him sleeping. Noel, Oh, I woke him up.
The lieutenant came. She came, she found the round sheet.
He fell back asleep in front of her. She said, hey,
you need to wake up. She had papers and she
hit him. She says, you need to wake up, Foy.
That's what I'm talking about, Noel. She hit him with
a stack of papers. So saying that to say, like
everybody knows, like, because we're understaffed and overworked. So let's
say if I was to tell on Thomas, that's who
I would have to hold it to. She was there
and she saw it. Question, So she knew, So you
didn't go as far as like, if you were going
to report someone sleeping on duty, you didn't need to
report it because she saw it with her own eyes, Noel, exactly. Question.
And he was literally fell asleep in front of her. Noel,
in front of her, Yeah question. How long was she there? Noel,
maybe like five minutes, ten minutes. Question and that little
brief interaction, he actually went to sleep in front of her, Noel.
Yeah question. Okay, so no discussions with Thomas just when
you would wake him up, He just said that he
was tired, Noel. Yes. Question. Did you try to wake
him up for each count? Noel. I tried to wake
him up for the twelve and three. I don't remember
if I tried to wake them up for the five
because by that time he went upstairs. I remember he
went upstairs to relieve her dacted, and I don't remember
what happened between there and as far as waking them up. Question,
all right, and as far as the inaccuracy of the
one count specifically now we're talking about twelve am that
it was actually it's off. He got a call, but
he didn't talk to you about what was said on
the other line, Noel. No, he said, well, got to
change the count slip and he wrote it and he
changed it and I signed. Question all right, Noel. But
he didn't say like, oh, the lieutenant, this happened or
that happened? No question? All right? And have you ever
experienced previous instances where the count was off from when
it was called in, Like if you give the number
and they say no, that's not right, Noel, Yes, question,
And what happened in those instances? Noel? You recount? Question?
You actually did a recount? Noel on well, not in
the shoe and other units. Question and other units though,
but do you know that that's what is supposed to
be done. If you call in a wrong number, you're
supposed to do a recount, Noel. Right, But I don't
think that was the case with that, Like they called
in and gave okay, that was the case, where like
if I counted wrong and then they'll say no, it's wrong,
and then I recount and I got the right number.
But in this case, they gave him the number because
of whatever. I guess they knew where the inmate was
or was supposed to be or wasn't moved. That's what
I'm saying. I don't know what happened between seventy three
and seventy two. But when he changed the number, he said,
the lieutenant said, so I just signed it. Question. But
he didn't tell you, The lieutenant said, to a new count, Noel,
no question. He never informed you of that, Noel, no question. Okay.
So you didn't really get into detail about what he said, Noel,
no question. Okay. But do you believe at twelve am
a new slip was created? Just not that one that's
not attached to that, the one that actually says seventy two,
Noel indiscernible. Is that at twelve at twelve here it
says seventy three. Question. Correct, But that was actually the
top of the page says seventy two. And I thought
that's the one that you said they made you recreate
account slip, Noel Wright question, And that's not You don't
see that new count slip on there? Correct? All right?
And I know you did. They have the conversation with Thomas,
because at twelve am he called the count in and
they said he was wrong? Is that when he had
the conversation with the lieutenant? Noel know the phone rang?
Question all right? So who called the count in at
twelve am? Noel me question And did you call also
the call at three am and five am in Noel yes.
Question all right. And obviously you called in without actually
conducting the counts, correct Noel, yes. Question all right. Now
it sounds like your attorney has and you have had
this conversation. But what was the reason you didn't conduct
the count question? I didn't conduct the count in my
area because he was tired and were supposed to do
them together, so I just didn't do them. Question okay,
So would you have done them if he was awake? Noel, Yeah,
because I did them upstairs. Question okay. And you're saying
that you never worked the night shift before, but all
the other accounts you have conducted that you've documented from
previous Noel, Yeah. Question documented. You're saying you may have
work with three other people and two of them may
have done the counts when you've been present in the shoe,
all the counts have been conducted. Noel, yes. Question okay.
And do you know of any other CEOs or employees
that have falsified count slips, Noel, count no question. No,
so you don't know any other I know that you
said you prepopulated them in a sense, but like as
far as he's cut off by Noel. As far as
other units, question not conducting the counts and actually writing
a number then account do you know? Noel? Oh, no question.
So all counts that have been submitted to this point,
when you're in the shoe, someone conducted them. Question Noel, yes, question,
And you said you never actually had a conversation with
anyone about counts and how they're documented. You just observed
as well, like on the round sheets, Noel. As far
as having conversations, question, did anyone train you on how
to write count slips? Noel, no question. No, So you
just got it from watching other people fill them out.
That's how you learned, Noel. Yeah, because it's just your
name and the number of the count question. Sure, Noel,
Uh huh question. Okay, do you want to take a
break now, Foy Yeah, all right, So we're gonna wrap
up right here as well, and in the next episode
dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we
left off. All the information that goes with this episode
can be found in the description box.