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about this, even though I think on the last ad

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access to the audio file. So head on over to

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the pekan Yonashow dot com. You'll see all the ways

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that you can support me there. And I just want

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to thank everyone. It's because of you that I can

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put out the amount of material that I do. I

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can do what I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two

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hundred Years Together and everything else, the things that Thomas

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and I are doing together on kindinal philosophy, it's all

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because of you. And yeah, I mean, I'll never be

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able to thank you enough.

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Speaker 2: So thank you.

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Speaker 1: The pekan Yonashow dot com. Everything's there. Want to welcome

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everyone back to the Peking Yona show. Who the hell

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is this guy?

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me?

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Speaker 1: Goodness good, good to see you. I just saw you.

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I saw you a month ago. We were face to

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face a month ago. But yeah, so face fag Huh.

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Speaker 3: It's true. It's I'm ashamed to admit it. It's a

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it's a bad place to be in life. But yet

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here's where I find myself.

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Speaker 1: Right, all right, let's jump into this. We're doing this

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on Tuesday the seventeenth, all sorts. Trump is either doing

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forty chests again or he's going to war. He just

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said there we can we control the skies over Iran,

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total surrender. What is this? So here's here's my question. More,

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here's what I want to talk about. More importantly, how

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do we interpret this? I mean, there's a certain group

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on the let's call it the right. We don't need

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to put any qualifiers on it. Who Trump is has

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sacrificed his children to members of a tribe that that

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mostly live in is you know, not well mostly live here,

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but they also live in Israel. So he's completely a

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Zionist and completely beholdens a Zionist, and they own him

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and any kind of any kind of you know, like

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friction you would see with Yahoo. It's all kfe. You know,

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this is all wwe Then there are those people like

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myself who are like, I don't know that Trump is

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really a Zionist or if he could actually define the term.

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And he's from New York and he's in the real

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estate industry and it's pretty much dominated by a certain tribe,

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so it wouldn't be weird that, like, that's a lot

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of the people he was around his whole life, so

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that's who his kids would meet and stuff like that

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and get in with. And the fact that he seems

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to like these people and seems to like Israel. But

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I don't know that he's a Zionist. I think he's

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a boomer who is like, Iran cannot ever have a

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nuclear weapon because I've been told that they took an

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embassy hostage in nineteen seventy nine for no reason whatsoever.

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So and then you know, you have people who just

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don't like this tribe and they can't or they don't

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like this tribe, they don't like politics, they can't take

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a side. It's like, what would Kamala be better than Trump?

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I can't, No, they're both bad. I can't take aside.

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I'll never take a side.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, no no.

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Speaker 1: So what is this? Where are where are we at?

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How is what do you see as like? Of those

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three that I just met, well, I mean really two

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that I mentioned, and I'm really talking about how people

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really how people react to Trump?

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Speaker 2: How do you see it? And now I'll shut up?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, So there's over ways to look at it. Right,

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which is the first off of the binary choice of

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twenty twenty four. Right, you and I were handed effectively

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two options and told to make a choice. So from

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that you have kind of a split in the decision tree,

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which is, are you going to engage with politics? Yes

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or no? I'm not a quietist, right, I'm not one

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of these people who say, you know, any politician is

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irreparably compromised, so I won't vote. I know people like that.

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I don't agree with it, but it's a respectable enough position.

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So let's say we've taken that for we've decided we

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are going to be involved in politics. Well, fundamentally, you

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were given a very small fraction of power, right, vanishingly small. Right,

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Even if we assume that the Civics class version of

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American history is exactly or American politics. Rather, it's exactly

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correct and told to make a binary choice, so to me, right,

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the reason I was comfortable voting for Trump is very simple.

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It's basically who hates me? And you know, look Trump

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has many many for but at the same time, he

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doesn't seem to hate normal Americans. Okay, fair enough. That

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makes it an easy choice. And from that point, right,

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if we decide that, you know, Kamala would have been

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worse on average for people like ours, Well, what did

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we get out of it? Well, to be honest, we

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got more than I thought we would. Right. Had I

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thought there was no chance that any of the kind

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of doze stuff would happen, I had thought there was

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no chance any of the immigration reform would happen. And

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look like those aren't capital w wins. You know, doze

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does not equate to us getting exactly what we want,

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but it is punishing our enemies. So you know what,

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I'll take it, right, It's a move that relatively speaking,

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increases our power, right, sort of a body blow, not

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a knockout, but something that kind of SAPs the tank.

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So fair enough, right, And that's why broadly speaking, I

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have been positive on Trump. I'm not a maga guy.

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I don't really particularly care about all of the kind

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of internacne mega politics or you know, getting really emotionally

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invested in it. But to me, I feel like we

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got more than we could have expected. You know, you

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buy a car, you open the glove box and there's

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five hundred bucks in an envelope. Hey, look, you know

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better than I thought. Right. So then it comes to

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foreign policy. Trump promised to end the war in Ukraine.

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That hasn't happened. There's been good faith efforts to make

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it happen, but it seems to be honestly, Russia doesn't

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want to end it, and to be honest, I can't

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blame them. They're in a very good position. So as

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with foreign policy, Trump has always been a mixed back, right,

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We've seen cases like with Syria where he was lied

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to right where they said we're taking troops out and

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they didn't do that. Also, there have been just regular

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old bad decisions, stupid mistakes. Right this strike on the

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Iranian general, you know, using the kind of like Ninja

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missile or whatever that kind of you know, launched the

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sharkan from space at him. That was a that was

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an error, right, we can we can say that now

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the problem is right, starting a war with Iran is

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a much larger scale error. Right, assuming that the you know,

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the worst comes to worse, and that happens, I sincerely

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hope it doesn't. Honestly, that would wipe away a lot

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of the let's be honest, almost all of you know

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his his wins in my book. Now, the question of

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how likely this is, well, I've seen the same kind

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of forty just claims you have many of them from

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you know, people I like and consider friends. I don't

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know how much of that I buy, to be perfectly honest. Like, Look,

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there are tankers with fighters in tow crossing the Atlantic, right, Okay,

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maybe this is some you know, big threatening maneuver. You know,

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maybe this is a desire to get to the negotiating table,

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and if so, fair enough, I'll eat crow. But judging

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by the data we currently have, it looks like at

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the very least, there will be strikes on Iran. Now, admittedly,

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strikes do not equal war. War does not equal like

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a World War two style general mobilization. But I mean,

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look like we have to look at the data as

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it is. Several things here right. Trump has been very

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chilly towards net and Yahoo.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: I he has not met with him yet. I don't

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think Vance has either. Hegseeth canceled his decision to go

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talk with him, So there's something there, right. And also

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it's interesting Vance put out a statement today which you

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can read one of two ways. It's a very long

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post to Twitter, and about half of it is saying,

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you know, Iran, you know, must not be allowed to

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have a nuclear weapon, and then the back half is saying,

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but we don't want a foreign war. The decision is

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ultimately in Trump's hands. We've seen pushback from you know,

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Bannon Tucker, people inside the cabinet against this, and at

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the same time, you know, you have Mike Huckabee posting

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the most insane things possible about how this is the

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reason the country of America was founded, which, regardless your

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opinions on let's just say any country in the world

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that was not the reason America was formed, Right, America

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was formed to be a place for Americans to live,

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not to serve as the world policeman or the guaranteur

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of some other state. So to me, if I had

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to guess what's going on, it seems as if they

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are pulling out all their stops to get America involved,

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and it looks like they have successfully made that play. Now,

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what we don't know is what is the reaction inside

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the Trump cabinet. How are they reacting to this? And

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it seems like from the signals we're getting, there is

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a camp that is very much opposed to this move.

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One of the things that I've been talking about quite

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a bit, both on my own show and also you know,

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in conversations with Thomas and others, is the fact that

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look like the Israel lobby is a very very powerful,

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well connected lobby, but they are not the only interest group.

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There are others. And one of the interesting things about

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twenty twenty four as we saw the introduction, or at

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least the formalization of, in my mind, two distinct groups. Right,

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you have obviously the tech right, who has been i

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mean to use a gen Z term, sort of crashing

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out right, Musk went on a giant meltdown, you know,

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accused Trump of all sorts of outlandish things. So, look,

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they may be in the descendant, right, they may be

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in a bad spot, but they still have power, they

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still have interests, right, this kind of bizarre combination birthday

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and military parade. Sure it may have been embarrassing, or

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you know, alternately, any view, it may have been the

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coolest thing ever. But it's very interesting to see which

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tech companies were involved in that. Right, there's a lot

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of traditional MIC interests, but also palanteer right, other things

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associated with teal, which indicates that those guys have at

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least some pull in this. Similarly, there were a number

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of tech ce or tech executives and MIC executives who

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got made i believe Lieutenant Colonels honorary right in the reserves.

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But still that is a further enmeshing of those interests

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and the federal government. But the other one, right is

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this kind of we could consider the America Firsters, if

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that term hadn't been kind of bastardized. But you know,

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the palaeocon interests, right, people like Tucker Bannon their network

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who are very much opposed to this, And it's a

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it's a question to ask, well, okay, sure, if they're

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not in power, what do their opinions matter? And one

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of the questions that has been kind of on the

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forefront of my mind for really the last six months

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has been who wins right? When it comes to a

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conflict between these interest groups, who wins? And unfortunately, at

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least according to the data as I see it right now,

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it seems as if the Israel lobby is winning, right,

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they are getting what they want. Now there's a secondary

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question of, well, what happens if they get what they want? Right?

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I think that the idea that this will result in

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some sort of you know, regime change or glorious revolution

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is unlikely. Iranian officials have been assassinated before I saw a.

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I believe their joint chief of staff. He was taken

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out in air strikes, at least according to shall we

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say Israeli aligned media, right, And by that, I mean

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the idea said it, you know, so we can say

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that's what they want you to think. We don't know

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if that's true or not. But nonetheless, so let's say

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they get what they want, you know, America strikes nuclear sites. Well,

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what happens then? Because I think that that fantasy, right,

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that we will you know, turn over the Mullus regime,

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I think it's unlikely.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: It's bears repeating the Mulas are not popular in Iran.

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In the old joke is Islam Islam wasn't, or Persia

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wasn't islamicized, Islam was Persianized. Right. The joke is they've

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kind of always been their own culture, and the Mullas

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were very much an imposition on that culture. Right, They've

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never been particularly popular, especially considering how orly their economy

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is doing just within the country. Now, that said, the

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deal that they run, right, their political formula is basically this,

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we are protecting you from the Great Satan the West.

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And that political formula works a lot better when you

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have you know, US fighters bombing your cities. Right. I'm

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sure you saw the same footage I did of civilians

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evacuating Tehran. Well, if your leaders are saying we're protecting

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you from them, the messaging you're hearing from the West

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is unconditional surrender. Well, that reinforces that political formula. One

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of the other things that I think bears talking about

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is to what degree has this kind of salvo of

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missiles been effective one side and another Iranian F FOURT

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teams have been destroyed. It seems as if there were

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kind of claims running around that they were fakes. I

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don't think that's the case. There have obviously been fake

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images of Iranian fighters other important things being destroy But

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it seems as if those were kind of mothballed fighters, right,

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they've been stored on an air air they'd been stored

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on the tarmac for two years with no weather stripping

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or whether you know, protection, They were mothballed, right, They

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got hit, So that's something obviously, if Iranian officials are

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being killed, they are hitting hardened targets. One of the

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interesting things, which this is Iranian government propaganda, so take

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it with a grain of salt. That applies in both directions.

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They say they arrested a number of IDF agents with

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a semi truck full of drones allah what we saw

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in Ukraine. Interesting connection there, But it seems as if

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this is still very much an equal fight, right, they're

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giving as good as they've got. Iran is an immensely

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defendable location by land, right, They're difficult to get to.

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So the idea of sending in troops, so to speak,

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I think is completely and totally unrealistic. But you know,

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Israel has a lot of ordinance, We have a lot

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of ordinance, and they can get hammered hard, so I

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think it's pretty unlikely that this results in the mall

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is toppling, but it could result in definitely a humanitarian

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crisis and also a domestic one. Right. The magabase is

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split on this, particularly along age age lines. You know,

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we've we've all talked about the way in which you know,

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that country is overwhelmingly supported by older people, not supported

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by younger people. So you have the same connections I

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do to the kind of krusty g Watt vets. They're

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very upset about this. Uh, everyone my age is also

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particularly upset about this, not necessarily for right wing reasons,

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but you know, the meme of I won't die for

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Israel that you know, got kind of popular in the

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run up to this. Uh, the counter signaling was completely

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and totally inept. First it was no one is asking

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you to and then it was, oh, this is some

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kind of third world this plot to attack Western civilization.

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So that presents a very real problem. Now, look, Trump

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is very very good at getting people to sign up

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for the military, right We've seen the recruitment numbers before

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and after, so that certainly poses a problem. But nonetheless,

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a large portion of the mega base, particularly the younger cohort,

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which effectively won him the twenty twenty four election. Are

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very unhappy with this decision. Now do I think that

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matters to a president who is never going to run again.

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Probably not. But there is some complicated calculus to this past.

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Just you know, big interest group gets exactly what they

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want all the time.

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Speaker 1: One of the things he said there was that the

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US has a lot of bombs. Israel has a lot

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of bombs. Iran has a lot of bombs too.

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Speaker 2: I mean they.

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Speaker 1: I think they claim the claim is they have three thousand.

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I think they have more of these missiles that they're sending.

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They were sent. They've been sending it Tel Aviv and

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sending at Israel last count. I got got this off

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a grock, so I mean take it away a grain

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of salt. They've used four hundred and fifty of them,

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so there is still a lot there left a lot

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of this where you really have to take. I think

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Trump just announced that all of their air defenses are out.

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I don't believe that for one second. I mean, anyone

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who has studied four the S three hundred and the

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S four hundred system of the Russian system and also

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understands the terrain and exactly how it Iran is set

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up and how their defenses are set up, is going

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some of those you're only going to be able to

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take out on the ground. You're just not going to

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be able to hit them from the air. So I

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don't believe that for one second. It all comes back to,

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let let's take it here. Trump is somebody who I

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think we believe and you can contradict me on this,

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really cares about his legacy. What do you think is

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more important to him? Is his legacy? Is the legacy

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of him making sure that Iran has no nuclear program

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that can be weaponized more important? Or the fact that

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he said, we just get into these insane wars and

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there's no reason we should have anything to do with them.

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Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, I think one of the problems from

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Trump watchers generally, and this applies to both the right

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and the left, is they sort of are looking for

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an ideology of trump Ism, right, which just isn't there.

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He's not an ideological actor. And I think that one

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of his major character flaws is he seems to be

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effectively the sort of combined average of the last three

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00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,640
people he spoke to, right, And so we see these

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kind of like wildly vacillating statements from him. And look,

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some of that is just he's playing the crowd, right.

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We recently saw this with immigration, where he'll kind of

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put up these trial balloons, right, he'll say something, test

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the waters and then make a decision. So we saw

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that over statements about basically illegals working in certain industries.

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That he put out this statement saying, oh, you know,

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we need to carve out an exception for farmers and

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meat packers, and it produced an absolute chimp out right.

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People were very very angry about it, and so what happened, Well,

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he didn't say anything else about it, but a day later,

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a large meat packing concerned in Missouri gets rated with

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a huge ice rate and it cleaned out. So we

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can assume, right, he looked at that and said, all right,

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not a good idea. Now, admittedly, there's a world of

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difference between saying something on true's social floating and idea

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and to be honest, mobilizing the large amount of our aircraft. Right,

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those are different orders of magnitude. What's a month stronger

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signal than the other. And I would certainly hope that

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he realizes that his foreign policy is a big part

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of the reason why he is beloved, right, why people

359
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have a personal loyalty to him instead of just a

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loyal to the Republican Party as an institution. I would

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hope that now I will say he's made bad decisions before.

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I think Trump two point zero has on average made

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much better decisions than he did his first time around.

364
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But this is a very serious error if he goes

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ahead with it, both for the sake of his legacy,

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and I think that needs to be stated, this would

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massively tarnish the legacy of the man, would massively tarnish

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the legacy of MAGA writ large as something in opposition

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to the so called swamp or to rhinos or whatever.

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Because again, when it came down to a moment of crisis,

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if you default back to that, really how different are you?

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And I say that offering a certain amount of gratitude

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for the other things we've gotten, like immigration, like the

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other stuff, But really this is the thing that matters, right,

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this kind of like Empire of America. And one of

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the things that John Derbyshire before his retirement, was continually

377
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banging on about was why haven't we left NATO, right,

378
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Why haven't we formally begun instead of just piecemeal the

379
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,880
destruction or the winding down of the empire. And that's

380
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a very major concern because one of the things I

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think was very interesting in Trump one point zero is

382
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to notice the exception to the blanket negative media coverage.

383
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I think a number came out, you know, shortly after

384
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:34,559
he was unsuccessful in his second run, was the media coverage? Right?

385
00:22:34,599 --> 00:22:37,559
It was roughly ninety six percent of media coverage Trump

386
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:42,599
is negative. So when was the exception to that? Well,

387
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:48,319
his presidential moments were foreign policy related, right, it was

388
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the moment that he assassinated in Iranian general and look sidebar.

389
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One of the things that I think does disservice to

390
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:05,119
talking about American foreign policy is the anti war movement itself. Right,

391
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A lot of these people are ideologically opposed to war

392
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as a concept. War is obviously a terrible thing, right

393
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,000
described in scripture as a plague, but as a part

394
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of human organization, we do it from time to time.

395
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It comes like the season. The question is is this

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a good war or a bad war? And I'm not

397
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,240
looking necessarily to get into just war theory, That's not

398
00:23:27,279 --> 00:23:29,960
my point, but to say, like, if we believe that

399
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,720
the purpose of a country is to provide a home

400
00:23:31,759 --> 00:23:34,799
and a place for its people, right, fairly basic, Well,

401
00:23:35,519 --> 00:23:39,119
if a war makes those people's lives better, there's an

402
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,519
argument to be made. Right, Like, you could look at

403
00:23:41,519 --> 00:23:44,799
the Roman conquests and say, well, they're probably not justifiable

404
00:23:44,839 --> 00:23:47,920
from like a tomistic perspective. Right. They basically just said like, hey,

405
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,680
you over there, guess what, we're the Romans. We have

406
00:23:50,839 --> 00:23:53,880
your stuff now. But if you're the average Roman citizen,

407
00:23:54,279 --> 00:23:56,799
you got wealthier, you got richer. It's not nice, it's

408
00:23:56,799 --> 00:23:58,839
not pleasant, but there's an argument to be made there.

409
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Whereas in our current situation, these wars are not being

410
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,440
waged for our benefit. They're impoverishing the American people. It's

411
00:24:07,519 --> 00:24:11,240
our blood, our treasure being squandered the advantage of largely

412
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,839
someone else. And if you look at Trump's rhetoric the

413
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,680
entire time, it has been populist rhetoric. It has been

414
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,599
saying in you, the average American, have been given a

415
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raw deal. Your interests are not being considered. I will

416
00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:26,720
act on your behalf. And going back to what I

417
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,359
said about personal loyalty, that's why Trump had personal loyalty,

418
00:24:30,519 --> 00:24:33,839
which is much stronger than institutional loyalty. Right, people like

419
00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:38,279
Trump more than anyone really likes the Republican Party or

420
00:24:38,319 --> 00:24:41,279
the US Postal Service, any of these kind of faceless,

421
00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:46,240
bureaucratic masses. And again, right, it's incredibly shortsighted to throw

422
00:24:46,319 --> 00:24:50,440
that away, To throw away that personal loyalty for a

423
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,599
client nation, right, maybe who knows, maybe a patrion nation.

424
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We could get into that later, but right, but to

425
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throw it away for someone else, because I think, right,

426
00:24:59,279 --> 00:25:02,480
like the old joke during the last time we almost

427
00:25:02,519 --> 00:25:04,519
went to war with Iran is there's a picture of

428
00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:07,400
a young guy and it just said, no Iranian ever

429
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,160
called me an in cell. Right, Ah, it's a joke.

430
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,880
But at the same time, I think that sentiment, especially

431
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,640
among younger people who handed Trump his victory, especially among

432
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,200
people who actually served in the armed forces, is incredibly negative.

433
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,119
And look, we are not populists, right, We understand that

434
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,440
that does not the popular opinion does not result in policy.

435
00:25:29,599 --> 00:25:32,720
Obviously we've seen that constantly. But at the same time,

436
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,920
if your base of power is ultimately populist, if that

437
00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:38,319
is what propels you to the fore, you have to

438
00:25:38,319 --> 00:25:41,480
take that into account, even just as a way to

439
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:43,559
get in the door, so you can do what you want.

440
00:25:44,079 --> 00:25:48,400
But again, I think this needs to be counter signaled

441
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,920
and heavily, because we have seen the Trump administration caved

442
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,839
popular pressure, as they did with h one B's, as

443
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,000
they did, you know, with the earlier comments about immigration,

444
00:25:58,759 --> 00:26:02,640
look like as Hucker was able to successfully do, you know,

445
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,079
kind of early in the year, with certain of Trump's appointments.

446
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,160
And so again I think it's important not to look

447
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,599
at this naively like there's a very real possibility we

448
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,559
all get screwed, that's how it goes. But I think

449
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,880
that needs to be made quite clear that that will

450
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,759
break the magic Maga magic right, that will break the

451
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:29,519
distinction between the swamp and the Maga movement. And again

452
00:26:30,839 --> 00:26:33,440
I was never expecting Donald Trump to take us to

453
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,039
based world right to solve all of our problems. But

454
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,519
he so far has, in the grand scheme of things,

455
00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:41,759
made good on his promise.

456
00:26:42,279 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 2: And he will.

457
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Speaker 3: Throw away that, he will throw away his goodwill if

458
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,720
he goes ahead with these the senseless war and.

459
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: Iran you mentioned there, the the whole thing about no

460
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,519
no no Iranian ever called me in cell or you

461
00:26:59,559 --> 00:27:03,359
know that kind of meme. Let's talk about a little

462
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,519
bit of the propaganda that's going on around this. Well,

463
00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:12,039
you know, they screamed death to America there, you know,

464
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,799
and I guess I guess I've made the mistake of

465
00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:22,079
reading history and asking, well, why wouldn't they you know,

466
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,519
I mean, that doesn't that's that I understand by asking

467
00:27:25,519 --> 00:27:28,640
that question it makes me a really bad American. But

468
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:33,640
then again, you know, I think to myself, well, if

469
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,720
someone came here and overthrew our government basically and installed

470
00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:40,839
their own people, Oh wait a minute, hold on, Okay, no,

471
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:46,319
I'll maybe we come back to that later, and then

472
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,440
you'll see stuff like well they fund all of the Yeah,

473
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,279
they fund Hesbala, they fund Hamahas, they fund I mean,

474
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:56,160
why would we Why would we put up with that?

475
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,279
And you know, then you asked the question, well, what

476
00:27:58,319 --> 00:27:59,440
does that have to do with us?

477
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 2: As?

478
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 1: I well, they've also funded groups that our soldiers have

479
00:28:05,799 --> 00:28:08,039
fought against it, and I'm like, how did we get

480
00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:08,839
into those wars?

481
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:09,599
Speaker 2: Why?

482
00:28:09,759 --> 00:28:15,039
Speaker 1: Why are we in those war? It seems that more

483
00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:19,039
and more this propaganda and people who say that are

484
00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:22,880
being propaganda's whether they know it or not, whether whether

485
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,920
they're doing it on purpose or whether they that's just

486
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:31,960
what they've been taught. So I mean, what do you

487
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,359
do when what does a good American do when they

488
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,960
see the propaganda from overseas and when they see the

489
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:45,039
propaganda and they're like, yeah, I mean, I'm sorry, I'm

490
00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:49,759
having some sympathies with the foreign power that seems to

491
00:28:49,799 --> 00:28:56,720
be not only you know, has A has a legitimate beef,

492
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,880
but also as a legitimate beef with our client state

493
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,359
or patron. As you said, however we want to put that.

494
00:29:04,559 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, So there are several things there. First of all,

495
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,400
I think it bears repeating that. You know, as we've said,

496
00:29:12,519 --> 00:29:16,359
it seems as if with Trump what matters more to

497
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,119
the regime is not the domestic it's foreign policy. Right.

498
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,920
They praised him for that, that's what made him presidential,

499
00:29:23,559 --> 00:29:28,640
And to be honest, the same thing goes for regime

500
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,400
oppression to kind of us in ours. If this turns

501
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,640
into a real war, people are going to have to

502
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,000
be very very careful about the remarks they make. Again,

503
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,200
not out of any cowardice, but just out of prudence.

504
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,359
That's a very good way to get black backed. We've

505
00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:48,039
seen it happen before. Be particularly careful of where you

506
00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:51,039
accept money from, right, We've seen that this is a

507
00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:54,799
regular way to entrap regime enemies. So I'll put it

508
00:29:54,839 --> 00:30:00,599
that way. But I mean to your point about kind

509
00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:03,240
of having sympathy for the devil. It comes down to this,

510
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,599
right when we talk about the post war consensus or

511
00:30:06,839 --> 00:30:10,319
the Nuremberg regime, whatever, whatever you want to call it,

512
00:30:10,759 --> 00:30:13,200
very close to the core of that is the idea

513
00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:18,759
that war is illegal, that enmity is it's some kind

514
00:30:18,799 --> 00:30:22,640
of psychological issue with you. There's no reason to be

515
00:30:23,119 --> 00:30:26,400
enemies to this empire unless there is something inherently wrong

516
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,559
with you. And closely bound up with that is effectively

517
00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:36,359
the idea that there is no reasonable objection to America

518
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,119
and its empire. Right, there is no set of actions

519
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,160
we can take that will create a legitimate response. Either

520
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,960
you love us, or you are a dictator in the

521
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,839
mold of a prominent Austrian fellow, and you must be destroyed.

522
00:30:52,359 --> 00:30:55,759
It's that conception. You see it over and over again.

523
00:30:56,079 --> 00:30:59,319
And so anyone who opposes us in really any way

524
00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:03,480
is automatically deemed to be an outlaw. Right, they're outside

525
00:31:03,599 --> 00:31:08,039
of the rules based international order, and so it's open season.

526
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,839
And one of the core flaws of the American personality.

527
00:31:15,079 --> 00:31:17,240
And you could say, we could talk about where this

528
00:31:17,359 --> 00:31:20,440
came from, but really, in that post war consensus or

529
00:31:21,319 --> 00:31:24,920
the Nuremberg regime is the idea that no one will

530
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,559
ever get sick of us, right, that they will simply

531
00:31:27,599 --> 00:31:30,000
continue to be our friends, they will do whatever we say,

532
00:31:30,039 --> 00:31:33,839
regardless of our actions. And a big problem with that

533
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,240
is you say what you will about the Mulas. They

534
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,160
are sovereign. They get to say what Iran does, whereas

535
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,519
many of our allies, right, look at Germany, France, as

536
00:31:44,519 --> 00:31:47,319
we've seen in Africa, right, they do not get to

537
00:31:47,359 --> 00:31:50,519
be fully sovereign. They don't get to decide, They don't

538
00:31:50,519 --> 00:31:53,359
get a full vote in the way the truly sovereign

539
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,039
nation does. And look, I don't want to live in Iran.

540
00:31:57,279 --> 00:31:59,480
I don't want to live under Iranian control. It seems

541
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:02,599
like kind of a country to live in. But you

542
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,480
have to understand that the enemy gets a vote too,

543
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,599
and we've seen this in Ukraine. Right. We can say

544
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:14,359
we want peace, but unless Russia decides to stop, there

545
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,480
is no peace. And so similarly, when we talk about

546
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:20,680
like having sympathy for these people, I wouldn't even necessarily

547
00:32:20,759 --> 00:32:23,039
say sympathy in the sense of like, I like you,

548
00:32:23,079 --> 00:32:26,160
and I want you to win. But if you have

549
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,319
the barest amount of human empathy, right, if you have

550
00:32:28,359 --> 00:32:32,359
the ability to imagine yourself as an Iranian, you can

551
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,279
imagine exactly how they would feel very morally justified in

552
00:32:36,359 --> 00:32:38,200
doing that. It would feel like they are fighting for

553
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,880
their people, fighting for their land against an enemy. And again,

554
00:32:42,079 --> 00:32:45,160
as we've seen over and over and over again, one

555
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,079
these regime change wars don't work. Okay, even if you

556
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,559
get to the objective, you know, you take you know,

557
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,960
Comania or whoever to the Hague and you hang him

558
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,119
and you get to congratulate yourself with that, it doesn't

559
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,680
work right, It doesn't solve the problem, that doesn't fix

560
00:33:00,759 --> 00:33:07,279
the country. But also right simply this kind of like

561
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:09,920
like Star Wars episode one, idea that you blow up

562
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,319
the brain center and all the soldiers just collapse is

563
00:33:13,319 --> 00:33:17,000
completely and totally absurd. What we are going to get

564
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,559
from this is if we become entrenched in this, it

565
00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:23,039
will be another forever war. It will not fix Iran.

566
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,359
It will not fix our problems, even if they are

567
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:31,079
our problems in the region. And so again, if we

568
00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:33,279
look at this, as you know, American nationalists, like, what

569
00:33:33,319 --> 00:33:35,720
does it do for us and our people? The answer

570
00:33:35,759 --> 00:33:38,640
is absolutely nothing. You know, it enriches a certain number

571
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,480
of people in northern Virginia. Okay, fair enough. Is that

572
00:33:42,599 --> 00:33:45,799
worth the cost in treasure, lives everything else? I would

573
00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:48,319
say no. And the idea that the only way you

574
00:33:48,359 --> 00:33:50,640
can oppose this is by being some sort of agent

575
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,839
of Iran, you know, by being some sort of like

576
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,680
Pinko or some sort of like you know, weak limbristed

577
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,160
liberalists is completely and totally absurd. And I think one

578
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,279
of the real dangers, and this has been weaponized before

579
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,000
about the anti war movement being so annoying, right being

580
00:34:09,039 --> 00:34:12,480
so irritating, is it's very good to motivate the right

581
00:34:12,519 --> 00:34:14,880
wing to support something because if you look at the

582
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,239
conservative movement large, they're entirely reactive. They say, the left

583
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,559
is doing this, the liberals are doing this, the progressives

584
00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:24,159
are doing this, so we want the opposite. And to

585
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:27,559
be honest, they're directionally true. Right. That's generally a pretty

586
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:32,400
good way to orient yourself. But that reaction is well known.

587
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:37,000
It's a very good way to get people to support

588
00:34:37,039 --> 00:34:39,480
something that's outside of their best interests. So, for instance,

589
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,840
I was a little bit young for this. But during

590
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,199
the kind of start to the global War on Terror,

591
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:47,039
one of the means that came back around. I mean

592
00:34:47,039 --> 00:34:49,159
this in kind of a not like a haha, funny

593
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:53,000
impact text sense, but like the rogue ideas right that

594
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,760
came back around was Vietnam soldiers being spit on. Right.

595
00:34:58,119 --> 00:35:02,440
It's like, okay, why years ago plus or minus? Right, Like,

596
00:35:03,079 --> 00:35:05,800
why is that back in culture? Well, the answer is

597
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,519
it's to make you mad at hippie's, which is not

598
00:35:07,519 --> 00:35:09,199
a particularly hard thing to do. I don't really like

599
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,199
these people, but it's injecting that sort of opposition like, oh,

600
00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:15,440
I support this because you don't and I don't like you,

601
00:35:16,159 --> 00:35:20,400
and I think we're seeing the same thing as regards

602
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,440
the kind of foreign interference thing. There's a really interesting

603
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,280
interaction I saw on social media the other day where

604
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,599
it's this Twitter account. It's it's got an incredibly generic name,

605
00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:31,239
like you know, based in red pill that've got two

606
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:37,880
hundred thousand followers. Whatever this show, I say, idf connected gentleman.

607
00:35:39,599 --> 00:35:42,559
You know, take some post where he's talking about how

608
00:35:42,599 --> 00:35:46,079
war with Iran would be horrible and responds with his name,

609
00:35:46,199 --> 00:35:48,719
his IP address and where he's from his name is

610
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,800
something Abdullah from Pakistan. So okay, obviously there are foreign

611
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,880
actors on both sides. I think it's important to not

612
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,159
be naive about that. The Iranians do have an intelligence department.

613
00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:01,480
There are other vested entry interests in this. So you know,

614
00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:04,519
to quote build a butcher, right, Americans beware of foreign influence.

615
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,400
But several things there, One interesting how he got that information,

616
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,920
and two the whole point is to create that reaction

617
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:17,920
that flip right, Oh, you are an outsider, you are

618
00:36:18,119 --> 00:36:21,559
one of those you know, dangerous, dangerous terrorists. So I

619
00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:24,880
want the opposite. I want to fight. And similarly, you know,

620
00:36:25,639 --> 00:36:29,199
the left has made itself incredibly odious both over the

621
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:33,079
last ten years and in recent memory. Right, the optics

622
00:36:33,119 --> 00:36:36,599
of the riots in la were horrible for the left. Right,

623
00:36:36,679 --> 00:36:38,760
this is the party of foreigners, This is the party

624
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,559
that wants to see you dispossessed in your homeland. And

625
00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:44,440
so if you can get those people to oppose something,

626
00:36:44,519 --> 00:36:48,159
anyone who's even not particularly interested in foreign affairs, rit

627
00:36:48,199 --> 00:36:52,119
large associates that stink with the opposition. And I think

628
00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:54,519
we delude ourselves if we think that these people aren't

629
00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:57,639
smart enough to figure that out. One they've done it before,

630
00:36:58,119 --> 00:37:00,559
and two we're sort of seeing that place book being

631
00:37:00,679 --> 00:37:01,760
run over again.

632
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 1: All right, So let's talk about the fact that if

633
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:15,079
this is if victory is called, it's going to be

634
00:37:15,079 --> 00:37:19,800
a victory from the air. I've done episodes with my

635
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,199
friend John field House. This is somebody who has admitted

636
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,719
that he has war gamed when he was in the

637
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,719
military what an invasion of Iran would look like, and

638
00:37:32,199 --> 00:37:35,480
it would take two years, the staging of it would take.

639
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,679
A ground war would take two years. So this is

640
00:37:37,679 --> 00:37:44,360
going to be an air war. Considering that we've seen

641
00:37:44,519 --> 00:37:48,119
pretty much the whole world except for the client states

642
00:37:48,119 --> 00:37:53,840
of Israel, condemn them for what they've done to Gaza

643
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:57,639
from the air, it seems like the only way to

644
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,559
win this is to turn Tehran and the other cities

645
00:38:02,039 --> 00:38:03,400
into Gaza.

646
00:38:03,679 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 2: So is that a win?

647
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: Is it a win if the rest of the world,

648
00:38:09,599 --> 00:38:13,320
just if the world hates you, if you become as

649
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,039
much of a pariah state as Israel is right now?

650
00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 3: Well, and that's why I mentioned earlier, right like, even

651
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,039
if they win, will that fix their problems? I don't

652
00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:26,840
think it does. I think that there's a non zero

653
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,199
chance that effectively, what Trump does is, you know, drop

654
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,920
a few you know, b fifty two loads of bombs, say,

655
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,320
you know, we destroyed the Iranian nuclear sites, regardless of

656
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,519
if that's true or not, you know, does a George

657
00:38:40,559 --> 00:38:44,000
Bush style mission accomplished photo op and then basically says like,

658
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,000
all right, we did it. It's your problem now. Which

659
00:38:47,079 --> 00:38:49,480
don't get me wrong, I don't want that to happen.

660
00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:52,239
I think that is a possibility. You know, again, we

661
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:57,039
don't know. We're kind of dealing with probabilities as regards

662
00:38:57,119 --> 00:38:59,719
the future. It Israel. I don't think this changes that.

663
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,000
So one of the interesting things, and this is something

664
00:39:04,039 --> 00:39:06,719
that our mutual friend Rod Dodson could speak to better

665
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,480
than you know you or I, is the degree to

666
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:12,840
which Turkey and Iran are in opposition one to another.

667
00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: Uh.

668
00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 3: And if Iran goes away, Turkey is in the ascendant.

669
00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:19,719
And Turkey is a much scarier country, like it's a

670
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,880
very real country. You know. They are technically members of

671
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,519
the European Union somehow kind of but point is and

672
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:32,440
NATO exactly. And if they start to you know, ascend

673
00:39:32,599 --> 00:39:35,239
in reaction to Iran sort of being reduced to rubble,

674
00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:38,599
that empowers them. They don't particularly like Israel for any

675
00:39:38,679 --> 00:39:42,280
number of reasons. And also, I think one of the

676
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:47,280
other things to talk about is the Israeli aura of invincibility.

677
00:39:47,599 --> 00:39:50,199
I mean, look, it was shattered after October seventh, but

678
00:39:51,159 --> 00:39:53,599
the Iron Dome was always the big thing. We've got

679
00:39:53,639 --> 00:39:58,760
this force field and look like, I'm not going to

680
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,679
pretend to know exactly what what percentage of missiles get through,

681
00:40:02,199 --> 00:40:04,920
but with the drone attack we saw earlier, and also

682
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,400
with these hypersonics, we've seen that they can be touched.

683
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,360
And so in Israel, you have a state that is burning.

684
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,639
I mean, look to the point, if they have alienated

685
00:40:13,639 --> 00:40:16,119
a large portion of the American public, imagine what they

686
00:40:16,119 --> 00:40:18,199
have done elsewhere where. We don't have that kind of

687
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:23,519
entrenched cultural guilt. They're a pariah state, their aura of

688
00:40:23,559 --> 00:40:29,320
invincibility has been shattered. Their demographic crisis is very real.

689
00:40:30,039 --> 00:40:33,360
And look like, let's be honest, the Lakud Party in

690
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,519
Benjamin NETANYAHUU are in a very bad situation right Their

691
00:40:37,559 --> 00:40:41,679
coalition is fracturing. He is very likely to see the

692
00:40:41,679 --> 00:40:44,000
inside of a prison cell if he can't keep up

693
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,920
this series of random wars. Going on to Grant him

694
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,880
emergency powers, which I want to say I think is

695
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,320
a relevant factor in this as well. I think that

696
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,440
he is, basically, like what levers do, I have to

697
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,360
push to keep some sort of war going on, both

698
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,719
for the legal reason and also for the fact that

699
00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:02,920
you know, as we mentioned, with the political formula of

700
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,599
you know, the Iranians basically being we protect you from

701
00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:08,320
the Great Satan, the political formula of the LIQUD Party

702
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,800
seems to effectively be I can tell America to do stuff,

703
00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:17,440
and I can protect you from X y Z. Those

704
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:22,440
are very tenuous foundations, and there is an Israeli left right.

705
00:41:23,119 --> 00:41:25,760
I don't pretend that those people are necessarily our allies,

706
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,519
but they would result in a different foreign policy. And

707
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:31,639
one of the other interesting things, I don't know if

708
00:41:31,639 --> 00:41:35,960
you remember, do you remember when the IDF got hacked

709
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:37,159
a while back?

710
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 2: Oh, oh, bit, that's huge, it's huge, Yeah it is.

711
00:41:42,559 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 3: And so in a hack talking the story about this, right,

712
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,079
it's actually very difficult to tell what they got into,

713
00:41:50,679 --> 00:41:53,920
right because they they broke in and you're sort of

714
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,000
looking around, and so one, we don't exactly know what

715
00:41:57,039 --> 00:42:00,920
the Iranians know. But one of the interesting things is

716
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,840
a lot of these strikes have been directed towards speculated

717
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,599
but not confirmed Israeli military sites, right, that were big,

718
00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:12,360
big secrets, sort of like their equivalent of like Chyenne Mountain,

719
00:42:12,519 --> 00:42:14,480
which I guess everyone knows we're Chia Mountains, but you

720
00:42:14,559 --> 00:42:17,519
understand what I mean, like very very secret location they've

721
00:42:17,559 --> 00:42:21,119
been hit, which to me that indicates one, Iron dome

722
00:42:21,159 --> 00:42:24,440
coverage is nowhere near as universal as we've been led

723
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,280
to believe. And two, if the Iranians know where that is,

724
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:33,519
they probably know some other stuff. Right, And so again, right,

725
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,679
it seems as if you know, Israel has accomplished at

726
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,039
least some of their objective in Gaza, right, largely, they

727
00:42:42,039 --> 00:42:45,239
have seemed to have done so. And look, they lost

728
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,679
people doing it, but they won, right at least in

729
00:42:48,679 --> 00:42:52,599
some capacity. They may well win in Iran again, in

730
00:42:52,639 --> 00:42:56,559
whatever capacity we can imagine that being. But that doesn't

731
00:42:56,559 --> 00:42:59,840
fundamentally change the churchectory of Israel, which is they're facing

732
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:04,440
a a domestic political crisis, they're facing an international security crisis.

733
00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:09,280
And also they're very much facing a demographic crisis, right

734
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,480
that they at very bare level require soldiers. Their population

735
00:43:13,639 --> 00:43:16,679
is shrinking, they're the part of their population is growing,

736
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,719
is exempt from military service. I don't know if you noticed,

737
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,360
but they tried to force through conscription for is it

738
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,800
the Hasidim, what group or the ultra Orthodox? I can't remember.

739
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 2: Was it Hanks or was it That's what it was.

740
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 3: Sorry, I was cycling through my uh my terms. I

741
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,920
hadn't hit that one yet. But point is right, these

742
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,199
are all very real issues. Now, I'm not one of

743
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,119
these people that thinks like, oh, the crisis is tomorrow,

744
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,159
you know, is reel, It's going to fall, But I

745
00:43:46,159 --> 00:43:48,760
think it's important to say that these are very real issues.

746
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,440
And while striking Iran may put a pin in any

747
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,119
of those issues, right, it may eat and yahoo in power.

748
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,000
You know, it may kind of tramp down, you know,

749
00:43:58,039 --> 00:44:03,039
domestic descent. But one, how long can he keep it up?

750
00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:05,360
And two what will it accomplish? I mean, I think

751
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,480
that it's very likely this will create a humanitarian disaster.

752
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:13,000
That seems to be the most normal response. But as

753
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,760
we've seen in Gaza, simply creating a giant humanitarian disaster

754
00:44:17,159 --> 00:44:20,920
does not end the conflict. Right, Gaza still has Israeli

755
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,519
soldiers in it, They're still being killed, They're still in

756
00:44:23,559 --> 00:44:26,360
this kind of they're still getting rocketed from time to time,

757
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,760
and look like, do I think that those rockets are

758
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:34,519
likely to bring Israel to its knees? No, But this

759
00:44:34,679 --> 00:44:38,639
move ultimately doesn't change the calculus that Israel's in a

760
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:43,039
very very bad position. And I think that the other

761
00:44:43,159 --> 00:44:46,079
calculus it's important to bring up is that you know,

762
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,960
the left, and they did get smashed for it, but

763
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,199
the left in America is incredibly anti Israel. The right

764
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,320
as it ages, right as it people die off, as

765
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,039
we know, the boomers will reach their fifty percent mortality

766
00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:02,480
rate around twenty which, of course I mean, like we

767
00:45:02,599 --> 00:45:05,440
know how mortality curves go, that only increases every year.

768
00:45:06,119 --> 00:45:10,000
They have alienated them as well. And so again, if

769
00:45:10,039 --> 00:45:13,000
your political formula is I can make America do whatever

770
00:45:13,039 --> 00:45:16,280
I want, and a larger and larger segment of American

771
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,800
society basically wonders, what do we get out of this

772
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,840
if internal to the Republican Party, these new interest groups,

773
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,760
which you know sure are not in complete and total control,

774
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,239
but our real voices with power are also opposing this.

775
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,519
It's like, well, look like, let's extrapolate this trend line

776
00:45:32,519 --> 00:45:35,599
twenty thirty years out and just acknowledge, and I'm look,

777
00:45:35,639 --> 00:45:38,639
I'm sure you can say this, Pete. Look at the

778
00:45:38,679 --> 00:45:42,360
difference between Gwatt and now right. This is much more

779
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,159
opposed than it was, much more opposed by young people

780
00:45:45,159 --> 00:45:47,360
who are going to be the ones eventually to fight.

781
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,519
And look at a certain point, it's like this, this

782
00:45:51,599 --> 00:45:54,760
trend line will not be reversed. I would love for

783
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,159
it to be in a much advanced state now right,

784
00:45:57,199 --> 00:45:59,800
I'd love for this to not even be a conversation.

785
00:46:00,519 --> 00:46:04,760
But I think we need to look at this soberly. Right,

786
00:46:05,119 --> 00:46:08,760
there's a very real possibility we will strike Iran. That's

787
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,840
not good. I don't want that to happen. But ultimately

788
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,880
I don't think that changes the calculus for the direction

789
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,719
of Israel as a country or for the Israel lobby

790
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:19,039
in America.

791
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,599
Speaker 1: So let me let me throw this out there. So

792
00:46:24,639 --> 00:46:30,639
on Sunday I got reports, like three different reports from people,

793
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,639
not people on the inside, but people who are like

794
00:46:32,679 --> 00:46:36,599
one person removed from the inside. And one told me

795
00:46:37,639 --> 00:46:40,880
war was imminent and they heard that from somebody deep

796
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,960
on the inside. Another one said the war this was

797
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,880
not happening, that that it was. There'll be a lot

798
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,840
of bluster but there won't there won't. You know, we're

799
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:58,400
not going to get involved. The third one was the

800
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,840
people I know are really scared that there's going to

801
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,000
be a false flag attack in the United States, and

802
00:47:05,639 --> 00:47:09,320
that's what's going to draw everybody, all the people who

803
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,039
are who are against Middle East wars, all the people

804
00:47:12,039 --> 00:47:16,079
who are like, you know, making the jokes about well,

805
00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:19,360
I'm not taking the side of of two. I'm not

806
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,800
taking the side of either group if they can't eat bacon.

807
00:47:22,519 --> 00:47:25,480
You know, it's like making those kind of jokes. Well,

808
00:47:25,679 --> 00:47:30,159
this automatically pulls a false flag that you can blame

809
00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:36,320
on mas On, you know, on international Islam. Is something

810
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,239
that is going to cause all of those people who

811
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,079
you know were like, well, we don't want war with anyone,

812
00:47:42,119 --> 00:47:44,920
we you know, right back into being where our our

813
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,840
Rah Israel supporters and yay, let's go blow let's go

814
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:50,320
blow the Moslims up.

815
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:57,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, that's a very real risk. Uh. Again,

816
00:47:57,079 --> 00:48:01,800
as we mentioned, our overlords are very very canny when

817
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,159
it comes to you know, the power of narrative, right

818
00:48:05,199 --> 00:48:11,159
the memetics, and you know, regardless of your opinions on

819
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:16,199
nine to eleven, I generally tend to fall on the

820
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,639
Ryan Dawson side of that. Right, that was a huge

821
00:48:19,679 --> 00:48:22,320
boon for the regime. They were able to ride that

822
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,800
insane wave of support, that insane wave of patriotism, into

823
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,079
a war that they wanted. Right. You know, the old

824
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:31,679
joke runs, you know, why does a guy from Saudi Arabia,

825
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,880
you know, fly a plane into two towers and three

826
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,840
months later we're in Iraq, you know, or we're in Afghanistan. Right.

827
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,920
Obviously those are not particularly connected, there's a tenuous thread,

828
00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:44,440
but it's what they wanted to do anyway. I mean,

829
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,679
look at the main Right, we could argue if that

830
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,599
was a boiler explosion or something else, but that conspiracy

831
00:48:51,599 --> 00:48:54,760
has been around for a long time because again, it

832
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:56,920
was something we didn't have a good reason to do.

833
00:48:57,039 --> 00:49:00,800
We didn't have a narrative to sell, and it became endemic, right,

834
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,480
It became everyone was saying remember the main where everyone

835
00:49:04,599 --> 00:49:08,559
was saying, you know, never again, or everyone was saying,

836
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,239
you know, you can insert your slogan there, right, These

837
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,920
people are very aware of the power of narrative. Now,

838
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:21,239
I will also say the subculture of descent in America

839
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,840
is radically different to what it was in you know,

840
00:49:25,079 --> 00:49:29,440
the early twentieth century or at the early twenty first century, right,

841
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,719
I'll put it this way. A lot of the guys

842
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,880
kind of one generation older than I am, got their

843
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,840
start either in the Truth or movement or in reaction

844
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,280
to gy Right, they started out at Bush protests. That

845
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:46,840
is very much around and alive. And so another part

846
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,280
of this is that American culture is fractured. Right. One

847
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,159
of the consequences of immigration, one of the consequences of

848
00:49:52,679 --> 00:49:54,440
you know, the kind of skinner box in your hand

849
00:49:54,519 --> 00:49:56,599
that feeds you exactly what you want to say, is

850
00:49:56,639 --> 00:49:59,360
that there really is no American mass culture anymore, at

851
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,079
least not in the way it used to be. So

852
00:50:01,159 --> 00:50:04,199
the ability to pull off a coordinated narrative push like that,

853
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,800
it's tough to do. I mean, we saw this during COVID, right.

854
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,000
You know, that was a huge push. It had its means,

855
00:50:10,039 --> 00:50:13,960
it had its images, it had its slogans, and okay,

856
00:50:14,199 --> 00:50:16,760
it worked, right, they got into power, they locked everyone

857
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:18,320
in their house. They were able to do a lot

858
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,679
of what they wanted to do, but they didn't have everyone.

859
00:50:22,039 --> 00:50:24,599
You know, they had a plurality, right, but a slight one.

860
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,039
And again, I don't think we should delude ourselves. I

861
00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:30,480
think if that you know, hypothetical, you know, nuke goes

862
00:50:30,519 --> 00:50:33,119
off in Houston, which you know someone it could be

863
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,239
argued that nuking Houston would be doing us a favor.

864
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:36,079
But I digress.

865
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 1: Uh.

866
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 3: I think we realize that there will be a response

867
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,280
to that. People will not necessarily all go along with it.

868
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,199
But just as I said earlier about being very very

869
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,519
careful what you say, if America gets involved in a war,

870
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:50,719
that's another situation where people are going to have to

871
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,440
be very very careful because there will be a huge

872
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,639
there will be a cultural blank check written. And you know,

873
00:50:57,679 --> 00:50:59,960
as we've said, these people are burning through their cap

874
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,440
it won't be And I realized saying blank check and

875
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,000
then quantifying it is poor grammar. But whatever, you know

876
00:51:05,039 --> 00:51:07,800
that that move every time you press the lever, it

877
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,000
doesn't work quite as well. But they can still do

878
00:51:11,079 --> 00:51:14,880
it right. They're still in charge. And again I think

879
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,519
that they are ultimately fighting a losing battle. But I

880
00:51:17,519 --> 00:51:21,039
think we have to be very very cognizant about what

881
00:51:21,119 --> 00:51:26,119
a you know, post nine to twelve America looks like. Obviously,

882
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,519
I really hope that doesn't happen. You know, if something

883
00:51:29,559 --> 00:51:32,440
obviously just for the loss of human life that would

884
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,960
be disastrous. But also, I mean, I think that we

885
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,400
can look back at the last several years and say,

886
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,559
you know, our tendency is in the ascend where we're

887
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,800
rapidly pumping above our weight. But that could definitely throw

888
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,000
cold water on it. Right, if all of a sudden

889
00:51:47,039 --> 00:51:49,639
it's you and the stinky hippies nobody likes, as we

890
00:51:49,679 --> 00:51:53,639
mentioned earlier, that's a much harder battle to fight. So again,

891
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,480
I really really hope that doesn't happen. It is a

892
00:51:57,519 --> 00:51:59,719
possibility we have to be aware of and like what

893
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,280
they're everything else, Right, if we consider ourselves realists, we

894
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,079
fundamentally look at the situation as it is. That changes

895
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:12,679
our game plan dramatically. Now, I will also say, if

896
00:52:12,679 --> 00:52:15,559
we take the Ryan Dawson narrative on nine to eleven,

897
00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:19,920
shall we say there was significant complicity within our government

898
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,719
in that right, if you believe him to be correct. Now,

899
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,239
if there are already tensions running high, you know, between

900
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:32,360
the Lecude Party and in the GOP, you know, we

901
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,280
can argue about to what degree that is the case.

902
00:52:35,119 --> 00:52:38,239
Who knows, Maybe they don't get usg come along with them.

903
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,599
But to be honest, that's probably the darkest timeline, right.

904
00:52:42,639 --> 00:52:45,800
We both end up in a full war, a real

905
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,559
deal mobilization, and then there is another there's a black

906
00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:52,079
swan event, a nine to twelve, you know, a newt

907
00:52:52,119 --> 00:52:54,559
goes off in someplace that's actually kind of nice instead

908
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:58,320
of Houston, and we're straight back to two thousand and

909
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,519
one again. And who knows, maybe the super Bowl halftime

910
00:53:01,519 --> 00:53:03,039
show will get a little bit better. You might get

911
00:53:03,039 --> 00:53:06,400
Creed again. But that's a pretty dark eventuality. I mean,

912
00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:10,079
it is a possibility, you know, again, keep your eyes

913
00:53:10,119 --> 00:53:12,719
out or keep your eyes up for it. But I mean,

914
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,199
there's no two ways to talk about it. That's a

915
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,360
very very bad result. And I think that would I mean,

916
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,880
really that would kill the MAGA movement as you know,

917
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,519
any sort of you know, identifiable political force. It would

918
00:53:24,559 --> 00:53:27,280
be something else. It would be the Republican Party again,

919
00:53:27,679 --> 00:53:29,559
in which case we're in a much darker world than

920
00:53:29,559 --> 00:53:30,119
we realized.

921
00:53:33,519 --> 00:53:36,639
Speaker 1: I think I should say right now that the person

922
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:41,159
who is typing the comment that Creed didn't perform at

923
00:53:41,199 --> 00:53:44,000
the super Bowl but it was actually a Thanksgiving halftime

924
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,360
really should really stop spurring out and calm down.

925
00:53:50,039 --> 00:53:52,039
Speaker 3: It might have been. I was like four when that happened,

926
00:53:52,079 --> 00:53:53,599
so you know, minor detail.

927
00:53:53,639 --> 00:53:58,119
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's so scary, all right, So okay,

928
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,480
so uh let's let's finish off talking on this. I

929
00:54:02,519 --> 00:54:05,199
got three different reports on what was going on. What

930
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,280
that tells me is, and I think we know this,

931
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:12,679
there are groups within this administration who are vying for

932
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:20,440
what they want and one's gonna one's gonna win, one

933
00:54:20,559 --> 00:54:26,440
may get playcated. But there are it's obvious that at

934
00:54:26,519 --> 00:54:31,440
least there their choices are there. There's there's different. I mean,

935
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:35,000
I tend to believe, you know, and I still catch

936
00:54:35,079 --> 00:54:37,679
I catch crap every day. I have one spurg a day.

937
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:39,880
Come after me and be like, you know, you said

938
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,119
to vote for Trump, and you were all in on Trump,

939
00:54:42,159 --> 00:54:46,000
and you said if we if we, if we had

940
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,559
any criticisms, you were black, were black pilling and everything.

941
00:54:49,559 --> 00:54:51,119
It's like, no, it's because.

942
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:51,760
Speaker 2: I'm smarter than you.

943
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,119
Speaker 1: And any criticism you're gonna give me of Trump I've

944
00:54:54,119 --> 00:54:56,360
already thought of. I mean, what do you think I

945
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,199
don't know them all? I know I know ones you don't.

946
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:07,000
But the the fact that we have at least a

947
00:55:07,119 --> 00:55:11,239
chance of a group that would more align not aligned

948
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:16,519
completely with US, but align align more with what MAGA wants,

949
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:21,239
you know, less war, more immigrants out of the country,

950
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,039
things like that is.

951
00:55:25,639 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 2: Preferable over what Kamala Harris.

952
00:55:28,199 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 1: Was going to be, which was just going to be

953
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,280
Joe Biden two point zero and Barack Obama three point zero.

954
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:37,360
So I mean, I mean, do you do you feel

955
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:41,480
that way? Like at least I mean no time. I mean,

956
00:55:41,559 --> 00:55:45,159
I'm way older than you. No time in my lifetime

957
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:52,880
has there been a regime that had like like competing

958
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,039
interest that were like completely opposed to each other. You know,

959
00:55:56,159 --> 00:56:00,000
it's the old Tom Woods thing. You know, the less

960
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,840
is evil and the right is dumb, and you know

961
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,519
usually on the most important things they get together and

962
00:56:05,559 --> 00:56:08,480
do something dumb and evil. And it seems like now

963
00:56:08,519 --> 00:56:11,000
we have a chance to, you know, at least get

964
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:11,480
our way.

965
00:56:12,039 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 2: Sometimes.

966
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that one of the other things

967
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:21,599
that bears repeating is you see the same email as

968
00:56:21,639 --> 00:56:23,920
I do, right, You see the same follow request that

969
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:31,239
I do. Anyone who is in even a has a

970
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:38,039
plausible chance of throwing their weight behind the message that

971
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,880
foreign wars do not work and are not America. First,

972
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,079
you need to do that because again, like we've said,

973
00:56:45,119 --> 00:56:48,159
there's a very real possibility that this turns very very

974
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,440
ugly for us, our movement, whatever you want to say,

975
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,599
it just America writ large. That needs to be done. Right,

976
00:56:53,599 --> 00:56:58,239
This is a very serious situation. And again I think

977
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:00,679
that you're right, and to say that I don't regret

978
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,000
voting for Trump is is true, right, Like I don't

979
00:57:05,119 --> 00:57:08,199
imagine that if you know, heaven forbid it, Kamala Harris

980
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:11,199
was in the White House, this would be going differently, right,

981
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:14,960
And I think it's important to temper that and say that,

982
00:57:15,079 --> 00:57:23,079
look like better doesn't mean good and technically better, like,

983
00:57:23,159 --> 00:57:25,320
look like, if we really do go back to two

984
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,719
thousand and one, you know, we could we could kick

985
00:57:27,719 --> 00:57:29,719
out all of the people we don't want here to

986
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,760
get back to show we say, like, you know, similar demographics,

987
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,519
we can kind of turn back the cultural clock to

988
00:57:35,559 --> 00:57:36,960
what was acceptable twenty years ago.

989
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: Pap Buchanan wins the presidency.

990
00:57:40,239 --> 00:57:44,199
Speaker 3: One hundred percent, Like, okay, that is directionally better, but

991
00:57:44,239 --> 00:57:47,280
that's not a win. Right. We saw what happened, right,

992
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,840
We were all alive for the twenty years after two

993
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,639
thousand and one, and it wasn't a great ride, So

994
00:57:52,719 --> 00:57:55,320
don't be lulled into thinking that that is, you know,

995
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,320
a win in any way. I certainly directionally better than

996
00:57:58,559 --> 00:58:01,440
you know, South Africa. Right, But that's sort of damning

997
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:05,000
by faint praise, right, It's like, this is a very

998
00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:08,559
very serious issue, right, this is something that needs to

999
00:58:08,679 --> 00:58:11,719
be addressed and harshly condemned because at least in some

1000
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,599
way we see these people are reactive to public pressure.

1001
00:58:15,119 --> 00:58:17,480
And if you have the ability to use private pressure,

1002
00:58:18,079 --> 00:58:20,320
do it right. This is the time, right, this is

1003
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:23,159
the time to pull out all the stops and look,

1004
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,559
if you and I are wrong, if this is fort

1005
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,400
hs you know, if he turns around at the last

1006
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:32,039
minute and drops his payload on you know, another city

1007
00:58:32,039 --> 00:58:35,920
in another place that we don't like, you know, we great.

1008
00:58:36,239 --> 00:58:38,719
I'm happy to be wrong. I would love to be wrong.

1009
00:58:40,119 --> 00:58:43,800
But again, like I've said over and over and over again,

1010
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,760
we're fundamentally looking at the data we have and at

1011
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,599
least currently it doesn't look great.

1012
00:58:51,559 --> 00:58:54,119
Speaker 1: Well, I think the most important thing to realize is

1013
00:58:54,159 --> 00:58:57,679
that you know you mentioned talking about, you know, the

1014
00:58:57,719 --> 00:59:01,480
better and the good. We're never going to get the perfect,

1015
00:59:01,519 --> 00:59:02,840
and we're never going to get it. I mean, this

1016
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:07,599
is politics. This is a a president who is being

1017
00:59:08,519 --> 00:59:12,199
elected to rule over four hundred million people. Probably if

1018
00:59:12,239 --> 00:59:16,000
you have fifty million illegals, no one can do that.

1019
00:59:16,119 --> 00:59:18,920
Sam Francis taught us that, you know, the revolution of

1020
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,119
mass and scale, you can It's just impossible. People who

1021
00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:25,000
the people who are still like, oh, you know, federalism

1022
00:59:25,119 --> 00:59:26,920
is you know, one hundred percent, you're going to get

1023
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,480
a president in there and they're going to speak for

1024
00:59:29,559 --> 00:59:31,440
everyone and they're gonna No, it's not going to happen.

1025
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:35,159
So basically all you're looking for at this point is

1026
00:59:35,199 --> 00:59:39,519
the better you know, the J six people are out

1027
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:44,239
to me like, if that's all that happened, that's God,

1028
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,079
I'm fine with that, you know, and the people and

1029
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,360
you know, you will get people who say, You've had

1030
00:59:50,599 --> 00:59:54,199
people say, well, would be better if they were in there?

1031
00:59:54,719 --> 00:59:56,639
Maybe better if Trump would have lost and they would

1032
00:59:56,639 --> 00:59:58,480
have stayed in there, because that would have you know,

1033
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:03,559
created like more like policeolitical, political prisoners and martyrs. And

1034
01:00:03,559 --> 01:00:08,039
it's like, is there anyone in your life you love,

1035
01:00:09,039 --> 01:00:11,599
you know, because it's like I mean, just picture someone

1036
01:00:11,639 --> 01:00:15,159
that you care about is in there, and all you

1037
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,840
want is them to get out.

1038
01:00:18,159 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 2: You know.

1039
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 1: So you know, when I'm looking at this, it's like,

1040
01:00:23,079 --> 01:00:26,039
are we having some wins or have we had some wins?

1041
01:00:26,159 --> 01:00:29,519
Speaker 2: Yeah? Is it going to be perfect? No? Is it

1042
01:00:29,559 --> 01:00:30,199
going to be good?

1043
01:00:30,639 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, it's like the jury is

1044
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:39,000
still out. But what we have is we have a

1045
01:00:40,159 --> 01:00:47,280
real right that understands that, like at least if immigration

1046
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:52,320
isn't taking it isn't handled, then we don't have a country.

1047
01:00:53,679 --> 01:00:56,119
And then you have a left that realized if immigration

1048
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,039
is handled, they have no power, like one of their

1049
01:00:59,199 --> 01:01:03,199
main power. So you have two groups that are fighting

1050
01:01:03,199 --> 01:01:07,199
for their lives and fighting for their existence and fighting

1051
01:01:07,239 --> 01:01:13,119
for power, and only one of them, historically and especially

1052
01:01:13,199 --> 01:01:16,719
recently knows how to use power and wield it and

1053
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:19,119
has the will to do it. And that's not the

1054
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:24,559
quote unquote right. So you you have to temper your

1055
01:01:25,519 --> 01:01:29,320
No one came into this, I mean, if anyone can

1056
01:01:29,119 --> 01:01:32,079
find where I said, Oh, everything's going to be perfect.

1057
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,840
I was like, this is like breathing room for four

1058
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:38,559
years if Trump gets gets in office. That's exactly what

1059
01:01:38,639 --> 01:01:40,599
I said. And if you're pissed off that I said

1060
01:01:40,639 --> 01:01:43,840
you were black pilling, I really don't care, you know.

1061
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,079
I mean things are better now, Kamala Harris, is I

1062
01:01:47,119 --> 01:01:49,519
mean orin used to talk about this all the time.

1063
01:01:49,599 --> 01:01:51,719
We talked about three years ago, we were talking about

1064
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:59,960
this that the trajectory of Joe Biden was like podcast

1065
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:04,199
masters would be taken out in jailed. I mean, if

1066
01:02:04,719 --> 01:02:10,360
not life ended, that's the end when the left gets

1067
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,960
back in power, Because they probably are going to get

1068
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,440
back in power some day, that's something to worry about.

1069
01:02:16,559 --> 01:02:20,199
Not podcasters at that point, it'll be anyone who has

1070
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,039
opinions as such as we do.

1071
01:02:24,239 --> 01:02:27,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's and actually you can maybe make the argument

1072
01:02:27,639 --> 01:02:30,320
that much like nuke and Houston, throwing podcasters in jail

1073
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:34,400
might be a net benefit for society. But either way, right,

1074
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:40,320
you're largely right that this is a reprieve. And to me, right,

1075
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,360
I think that in a competition with conservatives, we win

1076
01:02:44,679 --> 01:02:49,519
and are winning right now. Admittedly it's a slow trend, right,

1077
01:02:49,559 --> 01:02:52,599
It's not an immediate thing. It's not happening tomorrow. But

1078
01:02:53,679 --> 01:02:55,480
look like that's the reason I think that this is

1079
01:02:55,519 --> 01:02:59,280
a thing to kind of throw my weight behind. Right Obviously,

1080
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:01,159
Look I'm here, you know I wouldn't be doing it

1081
01:03:01,159 --> 01:03:03,239
if I didn't think there was something to it. But

1082
01:03:04,639 --> 01:03:07,320
to your point about the left, that's a very real possibility.

1083
01:03:08,079 --> 01:03:13,320
I think that the cultural force behind you know, social

1084
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,400
progressivism or wokeness or whatever you want to call it.

1085
01:03:16,719 --> 01:03:19,039
I do think that's waning, right. I don't think it's

1086
01:03:19,079 --> 01:03:22,559
cool or fun or sexy anymore. It's seen as low class.

1087
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,639
But the problem is, you have a lot of people

1088
01:03:25,639 --> 01:03:28,159
who have put a lot behind that right. They have

1089
01:03:28,239 --> 01:03:30,639
made that their identity. In some cases, they have made

1090
01:03:30,719 --> 01:03:34,280
should we say, radical surgical changes to themselves in support

1091
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:38,440
of that ideology. They're bought in, and I think that

1092
01:03:38,519 --> 01:03:42,800
we've got one real hard push from that left. I do,

1093
01:03:43,519 --> 01:03:47,679
and obviously, you know, I ultimately think that that system

1094
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:49,920
is failing, right. I don't think it's I think it's

1095
01:03:50,199 --> 01:03:53,880
zenith was twenty twenty. But I think we're you know,

1096
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:56,119
much like I said, there's a have to prepare for

1097
01:03:56,159 --> 01:03:58,760
the possibility that we get involved in this war, you know,

1098
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:01,679
that we get dragged back into kind of a wartime,

1099
01:04:02,599 --> 01:04:08,159
you know, cultural dialectic similarly, and the left comes back.

1100
01:04:08,199 --> 01:04:10,199
I think it's very smart to prepare for things to

1101
01:04:10,199 --> 01:04:13,719
get nasty, because we saw them signal, right, especially towards

1102
01:04:13,719 --> 01:04:16,159
the end. It's what they wanted. And to your point

1103
01:04:16,159 --> 01:04:18,719
about the J sixers, right, like, when we look at power,

1104
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,079
you know, what is the definition of a win? And

1105
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:25,360
you know, obviously the simplest definition is anything that increases

1106
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,320
your power or decreases your enemies. But on even more

1107
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:32,440
basic level, it's punishing friends or punishing enemies and rewarding friends.

1108
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,480
And the J sixers they got a huge reward, right

1109
01:04:35,519 --> 01:04:38,639
they got out of prison. And that again, right, that

1110
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:43,679
understanding of very basic politics is why Trump was catapulted

1111
01:04:43,719 --> 01:04:47,000
to success because he understood that, right, He wasn't one

1112
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,599
of these kind of institutional loyalists who was you know,

1113
01:04:49,639 --> 01:04:52,920
too worried about respectability, you know, didn't want to do

1114
01:04:53,039 --> 01:04:55,639
nasty things or punish people because you know, we care

1115
01:04:55,679 --> 01:04:58,440
about the rule of law, we care about the constitution.

1116
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:01,000
He's a brawler in a way, and that's why people

1117
01:05:01,119 --> 01:05:05,559
like him. And again, it would be a crying shame

1118
01:05:05,599 --> 01:05:08,440
to see him throw that away for something like this,

1119
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:12,000
you know, for a stupid foreign war that won't accomplish anything,

1120
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:15,880
that won't it certainly won't help America, won't help Israel.

1121
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:19,639
And to your point again about the reaction to this,

1122
01:05:21,679 --> 01:05:24,280
Trump's ability to punish Enemies has made a lot of

1123
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:27,960
people very very upset, and when he's out, either due

1124
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:31,519
to simply, you know, stepping back from politics or look,

1125
01:05:31,599 --> 01:05:34,840
he's an old man, right that heaven't forbid it. His

1126
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:39,000
mortality is past approaching. I think we have to also

1127
01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:43,000
prepare for the fact that there may be a CounterPunch

1128
01:05:43,039 --> 01:05:43,840
that we're not going to like.

1129
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:52,079
Speaker 1: All right, Jay Burden, let's let's cut it there. How

1130
01:05:52,079 --> 01:05:56,480
can people support your show? Yeah, it looks like yeah,

1131
01:05:56,599 --> 01:05:59,440
you know, we've been talking and it looks like you

1132
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,559
you're you're good at this, and I think a lot

1133
01:06:02,599 --> 01:06:05,039
of us agree that you should be doing this full time?

1134
01:06:05,519 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 2: So how can we make that happen?

1135
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 3: I appreciate the compliments, Pete. So, as you can imagine,

1136
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:16,519
my main output is the creatively named Jay Burden Show.

1137
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:20,000
You can find that on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere you

1138
01:06:20,079 --> 01:06:22,480
want to listen to podcasts. If you want to support me,

1139
01:06:22,639 --> 01:06:26,119
I would really appreciate this, right, as Pete intonated, this

1140
01:06:26,159 --> 01:06:28,639
is what I do now you know, it's no longer

1141
01:06:28,679 --> 01:06:31,760
a hobby, and so if you find me on a

1142
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:34,599
podcast platform, there will be links where you can donate directly,

1143
01:06:36,239 --> 01:06:38,880
very very soon. The business model for The Jay Burton

1144
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:42,280
Show will be changing. As listeners of the Pete Conona Show,

1145
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:44,800
it will seem very very familiar to you. Where there

1146
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:48,719
will be a free in a premium string right of content,

1147
01:06:49,519 --> 01:06:53,039
same content, right, you won't miss anything. But if you

1148
01:06:53,079 --> 01:06:55,159
want to check out the Jay Burton Show early in

1149
01:06:55,239 --> 01:07:01,719
ad free, well you can do so on Subscribe, Star, Substack, Patreon,

1150
01:07:02,199 --> 01:07:05,159
pretty much anywhere else. And again, Pete, I really appreciate

1151
01:07:05,199 --> 01:07:08,079
the opportunity to kind of launch from your platform. Obviously

1152
01:07:08,159 --> 01:07:10,960
you're a huge influence on me, both politically and also

1153
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,440
uh from a podcasting perspective, and I appreciate the opportunity.

1154
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 1: Man, yeah, I think you described yourself as Pete Q

1155
01:07:20,639 --> 01:07:21,599
younger with hair.

1156
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,480
Speaker 3: It's pretty much that. Yeah, that's that's uh, that's my

1157
01:07:25,559 --> 01:07:26,239
business model.

1158
01:07:27,679 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 1: Well, you know, when I started doing this, it was

1159
01:07:31,239 --> 01:07:37,719
my model was that Tom was Tom Woods.

1160
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:40,119
Speaker 3: Created worse and worse copies at the top. It's like

1161
01:07:40,159 --> 01:07:41,880
photocopying of photo coffy and.

1162
01:07:44,039 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 2: Of it at SELA. I gotta sell on that.

1163
01:07:49,039 --> 01:07:51,199
Speaker 3: It's actually funny. I don't talk about it much, but

1164
01:07:51,199 --> 01:07:53,360
there was a period of my life where I listened

1165
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:56,119
to a lot of Tom Woods, uh and it's pretty

1166
01:07:56,119 --> 01:07:59,639
old now. He has a great interview with RFK from

1167
01:07:59,719 --> 01:08:02,039
kind of back in the height of COVID that I

1168
01:08:02,079 --> 01:08:04,920
don't remember the number, it's probably a thousand episodes ago.

1169
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:08,280
But yeah, Tom Woods is a really talented guy, and

1170
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:10,599
that in particular was a very impactful episode. So if

1171
01:08:10,599 --> 01:08:13,320
you listeners are looking for recommendations, that's a good one

1172
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:13,800
to dig up.

1173
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:17,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, there's a there's a lot of good old

1174
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:22,600
ones with him. It's funny when you go back through

1175
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,640
his catalog and you're like, holy crap, how did he

1176
01:08:26,039 --> 01:08:30,000
How was his second interview ever? Ian Anderson, the lead

1177
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:37,279
singer from Jeth Road's Hull just odd. All right man,

1178
01:08:37,319 --> 01:08:38,960
I'm gonna get out here. Thank you so much.

1179
01:08:39,920 --> 01:09:14,680
Speaker 3: Sure thing, man,