Speaker 1: The justice system always aims to correct what is wrong
Speaker 1: in the world, ensuring those who commit violent crimes are
Speaker 1: locked up and families who are victimize find the closure
Speaker 1: they need. However, no matter the regulations, the legislations, and
Speaker 1: the bureaucratic red tape, there will always be a way
Speaker 1: to fight back against the system. We are not a
Speaker 1: perfect world, and to be humanist to error. But in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, when a murderer was set free from
Speaker 1: prison due to overcrowding, the justice system truly failed humanity
Speaker 1: as they had just set free a monster to roam
Speaker 1: the streets. This is the story of the notorious Roomstick
Speaker 1: Killer aka Kenneth mc duff.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
Speaker 2: and Graham Cried podcast.
Speaker 1: Yes, Hell yeah. The following podcast contains graphic content and
Speaker 1: material intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion advised. So
Speaker 1: we're live, two hundred episodes later, and here we are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, here we are.
Speaker 1: Okay, we need everyone to give us like a big
Speaker 1: old cheer or something right now because we're live at
Speaker 1: Trench Brewing. How's it going. We have our first ever
Speaker 1: live event and it is it's sold out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty cool. Who would have thought? Hey, I thought.
Speaker 1: I honestly feel a little bit of pressure because I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure everyone else who's graaced this stage before is like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm going to sing some songs to some cool jokes.
Speaker 1: We're just like murder. Okay, someone's gonna fucking die.
Speaker 2: That's cool. That part's not cool.
Speaker 1: It's fair enough.
Speaker 2: Fair the true crime you know, fan is cool.
Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. Okay. One thing I actually didn't
Speaker 1: ask before the show, and I'm curious about, just by
Speaker 1: a show of hands, how many people here have actually
Speaker 1: listened to our show before? And who here got drugged
Speaker 1: to the show because their wife is really into true crime?
Speaker 1: Knew that was gonna happen. Feel Yeah, that's actually how
Speaker 1: we initially got started. Nicole was a true crime person
Speaker 1: and I was content creator.
Speaker 2: But this was all your idea.
Speaker 1: It was we weren't spending a lot of time together,
Speaker 1: so we're like, let's spend some time together, and we
Speaker 1: like this.
Speaker 2: To work while we spend time together.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: All we do.
Speaker 1: Actually fun fact, before we get and Grim actually had
Speaker 1: another podcast, and my co host that podcast is sitting
Speaker 1: right there, so yeah, shout out to Mike over there.
Speaker 2: Yeah back in the day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Good times. So we got quite
Speaker 1: thesode here today. This is because it's a live event
Speaker 1: and it is you know, sensitive topics and stuff. I
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that we had one that was
Speaker 1: really well rounded. There is a sexual assault involved, but
Speaker 1: it's yeah, you're going to be angry, and I really
Speaker 1: hope I don't get assaulted after this because someone's pissed
Speaker 1: off at me with how this goes so fingers crossed.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm generally angry usually while you're at the
Speaker 2: cases and you, I guess both both.
Speaker 1: Usually at me. Yeah, that's that's an ongoing theme consistently,
Speaker 1: is Nicholls just angry with me? But what are you
Speaker 1: ready to go through this? Yes, okay, we're ready. So
Speaker 1: the story of Kenneth Allan McDuff. Though not the friendliest
Speaker 1: folks in Rosebud, the McDuff family weren't exactly considered the
Speaker 1: worst of the worst. They were industrious, They were frugal
Speaker 1: and regular attendees of the Assembly of God Church. One
Speaker 1: of the family members was that of Kenneth McDuff. He
Speaker 1: was born March twenty first, nineteen forty six in Row
Speaker 1: was but a small town in central Texas. His early
Speaker 1: life was filled with dysfunctional family dynamics in an environment
Speaker 1: that seemed to foster a lot of criminal tendencies. And
Speaker 1: Kenneth's father, J. A. McDuff, well, he was sment finisher
Speaker 1: who earned a good living during the construction boom in
Speaker 1: the late seventies and the early eighties, so he set
Speaker 1: up his family pretty well.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: His mother, Addie McDuff, was a domineering figure who ran
Speaker 1: the household, and she ran it with an absolute iron fist.
Speaker 1: She managed the family's finances, operated a laundrymat across from
Speaker 1: their home, and fiercely protected her children, particularly Kenneth. Okay,
Speaker 1: that don't get me wrong. I have nothing against a
Speaker 1: protective mother. All the power to you. That's awesome, But
Speaker 1: in this case I bear exactly the moment bear right.
Speaker 1: In this case might have been a little bit much
Speaker 1: in some sense, but you'll get the picture here in
Speaker 1: a moment. So, despite having a younger sister, Kenneth was
Speaker 1: considered to be the baby of the family, always well rested,
Speaker 1: with money lining his pockets whenever he needed it. His
Speaker 1: mother had that overprotectiveness of him, and it bordered on enabling,
Speaker 1: as she often defended Kenneth against any accusations or disciplinary actions. Now,
Speaker 1: whether he was in wrong or not from either school
Speaker 1: or the community, she was there to back him up
Speaker 1: without hesitation. Teachers and locals referred to her as the
Speaker 1: pistol packing Mama because she regularly carried a gun on
Speaker 1: her hip with her aggressive defense against her son.
Speaker 2: Okay, honestly, I actually thought it was kind of a
Speaker 2: cool nickname. I want that it is.
Speaker 1: A cool nickname, But I mean, I can't imagine just
Speaker 1: going to a regular PTA meeting with you know, just
Speaker 1: like a nine iron on your hip or something that's
Speaker 1: pretty aggressive.
Speaker 2: It's a bit aggressive.
Speaker 1: Yah, it's a bit munch and it sounds like that's
Speaker 1: the kind of person she was, So pistol packing Mama
Speaker 1: was something that was going around town quite a bit.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Kenneth was raised in an environment where he was never
Speaker 1: really held accountable for his actions. There's lack of discipline
Speaker 1: and the boundaries allowed him to really develop a sense
Speaker 1: of entitlement and quite frankly, in vulnerability as well. Now,
Speaker 1: perhaps it was because of all this, or maybe he
Speaker 1: was just you know this way to the core when
Speaker 1: he was born, but from a young age he displayed
Speaker 1: some troubling behaviors. He bullied his classmates, intimidated teachers, and
Speaker 1: reveled in causing absolute chaos. Despite this outward confidence, Kenneth
Speaker 1: struggled academically, possessing a below average IQ of ninety two.
Speaker 1: Now what really brings up a red flag to me, though,
Speaker 1: is that he made a point of flaunting his poor
Speaker 1: academic performances, turning his failures into a source of dark
Speaker 1: pride instead of something else a little bit less desirable.
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, I suck at math. Fuck you like
Speaker 1: that sort of attitude, right, I mean, good on you
Speaker 1: for being confident, But at a certain point it's not
Speaker 1: something to really throw in someone else's face. But that's
Speaker 1: really what he was doing.
Speaker 2: So he's like insulting people for being like.
Speaker 1: Good at maths exactly exactly the whole like you know,
Speaker 1: oh you or a nerds sort of thing. I'm better
Speaker 1: than you because I'm not good at these things. Like
Speaker 1: I get the I'm a cool guy aspect, but it
Speaker 1: only goes so far.
Speaker 2: Well, once he's stay in school, it doesn't go far
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, when you get into adult life, that sort
Speaker 1: of stuff catches up with you real fast. Eventually you'll
Speaker 1: end up, like, I don't know, hosting a podcast or something.
Speaker 2: What the.
Speaker 1: I did?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: Now, as a teenager, Kenneth began engaging in more serious
Speaker 1: criminal activities. His only close friend was his older brother Lonnie,
Speaker 1: nicknamed and I love this nickname, rough tough Lonnie McDuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was the family troublemaker.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 1: Clearly this this town had some had an affinity for nicknames,
Speaker 1: because they're laying it out there. And now, for example, though,
Speaker 1: regarding Lonnie, he once pulled a knife on a school principle.
Speaker 1: That principle was DL Mayo. Now, I mean that on
Speaker 1: itself sounds like a really scary situation, but funny enough,
Speaker 1: this principle didn't take no shit. He was not a pushover,
Speaker 1: and he promptly threw Lonnie down a set of stairs.
Speaker 2: So, oh, man, I mean that wouldn't fly nowadays. No, No,
Speaker 2: it really wouldn't.
Speaker 1: So Lonnie encouraged Kenneth's resentment towards society, reinforcing the notion
Speaker 1: that the world was actually against him. And I think
Speaker 1: that really builds up in the fact that he was,
Speaker 1: you know, terrible at things like academically, and he's all like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm better than you because I'm bad at
Speaker 1: these and then saying, you know, the world is against you.
Speaker 1: Societal standards are you have to do good in school
Speaker 1: and he's like, yeah, the world is against me because
Speaker 1: I'm different. I'm bad at school, like that sort of stuff,
Speaker 1: you know. So it was really reinforced, especially when it
Speaker 1: came to his older brother. Now by his late teens,
Speaker 1: Kenneth was breaking into buildings and engaging in petty theft.
Speaker 1: At seventeen, in nineteen sixty four, he confided in Lonnie
Speaker 1: that he had actually raped a woman and left her
Speaker 1: for dead.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, what a winner, ain't Yeah.
Speaker 1: No shit, And this is the first time that we
Speaker 1: really get into actual violence with him. Now. As it
Speaker 1: turns out, though this story, as far as his brother
Speaker 1: just thought it was, it was actually true and not
Speaker 1: just the words of someone trying to act tough. Kenneth
Speaker 1: had raped a woman, cut her throat, and left her
Speaker 1: for dead in a ditch. Good lord, But the woman
Speaker 1: survived the attack. Okay, she survived the brutal assault and
Speaker 1: later actually gave birth to his daughter as a result
Speaker 1: of the assaults.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yes, it's brutal. That's some brutal shit.
Speaker 1: Now that daughter would going to be named Teresa. His
Speaker 1: crime went unreported at the time, which allowed him to
Speaker 1: avoid immediate consequences. Teresa didn't know who her dad was,
Speaker 1: probably good. Probably she grew up not knowing him until
Speaker 1: she was twenty one years old, which is eventually later,
Speaker 1: several decades later, when they discovered that he had actually
Speaker 1: assaulted this woman. But she got to know her dad
Speaker 1: a little bit. She got to know the man behind
Speaker 1: the name Kenneth McDuff, and eventually, once she really got
Speaker 1: to know him, she fled the state.
Speaker 2: Okay, so she knew what was up there with him,
Speaker 2: she did. Oh that's brutal.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, this guy, I mean at the time when
Speaker 1: she actually met him and got to know him, is
Speaker 1: much later after some of his crimes that we do.
Speaker 1: But it's just kind of set in that bar for
Speaker 1: what kind of guy this is? His first act was
Speaker 1: something like this, and his daughter, after that many years finally.
Speaker 2: Seeks him out, wants nothing to do with that.
Speaker 1: Gone. What she did, well, she learned when she learned
Speaker 1: who he was. Yeah, she was out not having.
Speaker 2: Him fair enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, in nineteen sixty five, Kenneth was convicted of
Speaker 1: multiple burglaries and was sentenced to a total of fifty
Speaker 1: two years in prison as a result. However, due to
Speaker 1: the concurrent sentencing at his age, he was released on
Speaker 1: parole in less than ten months.
Speaker 2: Came he had fifty two years, Yes.
Speaker 1: Fifty two years and he had ten months.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Totally right, Yeah, that checks out. Holy shit. So Kenneth
Speaker 1: underwent a subtle but lethal transformation as a result of
Speaker 1: his ten month short prison sentence. He believed he had
Speaker 1: gotten away with murder, and he was hardened by the
Speaker 1: brief and lenient prison terms and developed an exaggerated sense
Speaker 1: of invulnerability the one that he already had going in As.
Speaker 2: A result, totally yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, no longer a boy, Kenneth had grown into a
Speaker 1: six foot three inch tall, two hundred plus pound man.
Speaker 1: The size made him a really imposing figure. Although prison
Speaker 1: hadn't taught Nneth how to make friends, it had actually
Speaker 1: showed him how to attract smaller and weaker individuals who
Speaker 1: he could intimidate and manipulate to be alongside him.
Speaker 2: Okay, so it actually made him much worse.
Speaker 1: It made him worse as a result. Yeah, okay, and
Speaker 1: it's only over the course of ten months. So now,
Speaker 1: one such unfortunate companion was that of Roy Dale Green. Now,
Speaker 1: Roy was a younger boy who lived with his mother
Speaker 1: in Marlin and worked for Kenneth's father. Two years younger
Speaker 1: than Kenneth, Roy was captivated by Kenneth's tailor of sadistic
Speaker 1: sexual acts, such as what he had done as a
Speaker 1: result of his daughter Teresa yours earlier, Kenneth boasted of
Speaker 1: raping and strangling multiple women. To quote him, in fact,
Speaker 1: killing a woman's like killing a chicken. They both squawk, serious, fuckingly,
Speaker 1: that's fucked up.
Speaker 2: That's real. Fuck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were talking because we had chickens. We were
Speaker 1: talking about chickens earlier, and I was like, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: something to do with chickens in this episode. That's what
Speaker 1: I was alluding to.
Speaker 2: That wasn't really what I imagine. How did you guess that?
Speaker 2: Holy shit, this guy is a real piece of shit.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, full on douche kinem for sure. So Roy
Speaker 1: was never really sure if you could believe the stories
Speaker 1: that Kenneth was telling though, that is, until the evening
Speaker 1: of August sixth, nineteen sixty six. It was a Saturday,
Speaker 1: and Kenneth was itching to prowl. He and Roy had
Speaker 1: spent the morning pouring concrete a construction site in Temple.
Speaker 1: After work, they cleaned up and headed for Fort Worth
Speaker 1: and the new Dodge Charger Kenneth's mom had just boughttom
Speaker 1: upon his release from prison.
Speaker 2: A gift, A little gift.
Speaker 1: Yeah, She's like, oh, you're free from prison. Here's a
Speaker 1: brand new Dodge Charger. Holy shit, I said he was
Speaker 1: the baby money lining his pockets.
Speaker 2: Huh, It's true, Okay.
Speaker 1: Roy, who was eighteen at the time, had never been
Speaker 1: to Fort Worth, m Kenneth, having worked there four years earlier,
Speaker 1: claiming to knew some girls in the area. So they
Speaker 1: went cruising through the small town of Everman, just south
Speaker 1: of Fort Worth, drinking beer, visiting friends, including a girl
Speaker 1: Kenneth knew from church. Later that evening, after dropping the
Speaker 1: girl off at home, Kenneth found what he was looking for,
Speaker 1: what he really went to the town for. He found
Speaker 1: a pretty teenage girl in a red and white striped
Speaker 1: blouse and cut off jeans standing near a baseball field
Speaker 1: talking to two boys in a nineteen fifty five Ford car.
Speaker 1: Purely by chance, Kenneth selected these three as his victims.
Speaker 1: They were sixteen year old Edna Sullivan, her boyfriend, seventeen
Speaker 1: year old Robert Brand and Robert's cousin, fifteen year old
Speaker 1: Mark Dunham. Now they were just chilling out, and Mark
Speaker 1: the cousin was visiting from California. Roy Dale watched with
Speaker 1: a mix of curiosity and horror as Kenneth approached them
Speaker 1: and pulled out his thirty eight caliber pistol from under
Speaker 1: his car seat and pointed it directly at the teenagers.
Speaker 1: Things escalated fast immediately. He held them at gunpoint and
Speaker 1: demanded the boy's wallets. Then he forced all three of
Speaker 1: them into the trunk of the car, locking them inside,
Speaker 1: and to quote him, they got a good look at
Speaker 1: my face. I'll have to kill him.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, okay.
Speaker 1: They then drove off with the kids in the car,
Speaker 1: all stuffed in that trunk, and Kenneth took them down
Speaker 1: a dark and narrow dirt road, while roy followed in
Speaker 1: the dodge closely behind, still not entirely convinced Kenneth was
Speaker 1: really gonna do anything. Harmful to these kids. Up until now,
Speaker 1: it's just been stored.
Speaker 2: He's just observing this king.
Speaker 1: He's going along with Kenneth. Like Kenneth is really, like
Speaker 1: they said, from prison, he's learn how to manipulate people
Speaker 1: to really be as like, I don't know, sidekick if
Speaker 1: you will, right, And he did that to Roy. So
Speaker 1: Roy's like, eh, you know, like we hang out, you
Speaker 1: tell me stories, we have good time. I'm close to you.
Speaker 1: We're doing this thing. Are we really doing this thing?
Speaker 1: I guess we're doing this thing? Is it actually gonna
Speaker 1: like he didn't really know. He was just going with
Speaker 1: whatever Kenneth said, because that's how they operated.
Speaker 2: Okay, that just seems so wild, hey, like make your
Speaker 2: own choices. Yeah, fair enough, don't kill three people fair enough.
Speaker 1: Now. Eventually they turned off onto a road and ended
Speaker 1: up in a field where they stopped. Kenneth opened the
Speaker 1: trunk and pulled Edna Sullivan out by her arm and
Speaker 1: instructed Roy to lock the other two boys back in
Speaker 1: the trunk of the dodge, which he did. The boys,
Speaker 1: as they're being locked in the trunk literally began begging
Speaker 1: for their lives, begging to be set free. But they're pleased,
Speaker 1: though fell on deaf ears as Kenneth raised the gun,
Speaker 1: pointing it directly at the boys and shot them both
Speaker 1: in the face.
Speaker 2: Just like that, Eh, just like that.
Speaker 1: He shot Brand twice and done him three times, then
Speaker 1: lifted done and again by the hair and shot him
Speaker 1: one more time for good measure. Roy was horrified when
Speaker 1: he saw the gun being fired with the kids and
Speaker 1: covered his ears and looked away, but not before witnessing
Speaker 1: the look of joy on Kenneth's face.
Speaker 2: Oh man, so he was like really enjoying.
Speaker 1: Oh he was full on it, like sadistically enjoying this.
Speaker 1: He knew what he was going to be doing, and
Speaker 1: he probably knew that Roy didn't believe him, and doing
Speaker 1: it probably made it even more like enjoyable for him
Speaker 1: the moment.
Speaker 2: I can't even fathom that, Like, I just can't that
Speaker 2: you would just like like just take two people's lives,
Speaker 2: like no big deal and it was nothing for him. Yeah,
Speaker 2: then he enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: So. Now unable to close the trunk with the two
Speaker 1: deceased kids inside, Kenneth chose to back the ford up
Speaker 1: against a fence. He and Roy then drove away in
Speaker 1: the dodge, leaving the terrified, Edna Sullivan still walked from
Speaker 1: the trunk of that car. They headed south, crossed over
Speaker 1: the Johnson County line, and eventually he came to a
Speaker 1: stop at a dirt road approximately eleven miles from where
Speaker 1: they left the boys. Kenneth forced Edna out of the
Speaker 1: trunk and made her undress at gunpoint. He then threw
Speaker 1: in the backseat of the car and began to rape her. Afterwards,
Speaker 1: he made Roy do the same, and then after that
Speaker 1: he took a turn again too.
Speaker 2: Okay, after that, I thought you're going to say they
Speaker 2: killed her, but well, they're just prolonging this.
Speaker 1: We're getting there, okay. So after enduring this horrible trauma
Speaker 1: for a while, Edna was then taken via the car
Speaker 1: to had another location and was told to sit in
Speaker 1: the middle of a dirt road. As she walked along
Speaker 1: that dirt road to the spot where she was told
Speaker 1: to sit, without any other choice, she just did what
Speaker 1: she was told. So with Kenneth's large frame and body weight,
Speaker 1: he then climbed on top of her and began choking
Speaker 1: her with a broomstick, pressing it right against her throat,
Speaker 1: and then Roy's own words quote he mashed down hard,
Speaker 1: and as she was kicking and trying to defend herself
Speaker 1: from the attack, trying to survive, Kenneth instructed Roy to
Speaker 1: hold her legs down and from there Kenneth crushed her
Speaker 1: throat until Edna stopped moving.
Speaker 2: Okay, good god, I thought you were picking like a
Speaker 2: chill true crime case. This is not fucking chill.
Speaker 1: It's relatively it's not chill. It's just not super graphic.
Speaker 2: But I'm like sweating, this is quite intense.
Speaker 1: Have some more of your drink. I'm good.
Speaker 2: So now the broomstick Killer is born.
Speaker 1: That's how the broomstick Killer is born. And honestly, this
Speaker 1: is the only time he uses a broomstick. It was
Speaker 1: just like the one off that was like people are like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, what the fuck?
Speaker 2: And yeah, wow, that poor girl.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine the horror that went through her mind
Speaker 1: in that moment. So, without a care in the world,
Speaker 1: and with what he had just done, Kenneth threw her
Speaker 1: body over a fence and then headed back to the
Speaker 1: two or sorry, and then the two men headed back
Speaker 1: home the night left with Roy being completely traumatized with
Speaker 1: what just happened. He followed Kenneth did exactly what he
Speaker 1: was told, but never wanted to be a part of
Speaker 1: any of it. He never really believed Kenneth was capable
Speaker 1: of this. All those stories he just thought were exactly that,
Speaker 1: just stories. But he was wrong. The next afternoon, while
Speaker 1: you know, taking a Sunday drive with some more friends,
Speaker 1: the news of the killings came on the radio in
Speaker 1: the car, and instantly Roy became overwhelmed and he blurted
Speaker 1: out the entire story to his friends in the car, crying,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I've got to tell someone.
Speaker 2: Really, So he just couldn't keep that in whatsoever.
Speaker 1: He did not want to be any part of it.
Speaker 1: He was forced to be a part of it in
Speaker 1: one way, and at.
Speaker 2: Some point I feel like he could have maybe backed out.
Speaker 1: Now maybe. I mean, Kenneth's a big dude, and he
Speaker 1: also had a gun, and there's a lot of things
Speaker 1: to go as far as what people can do with manipulation.
Speaker 1: Kenneth knew what he was doing. Okay, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: Roy is without fault. He took part, he raped her,
Speaker 1: trust me, he's a piece of shit too, But he
Speaker 1: didn't want to really, at least go that far, at
Speaker 1: the very least so anyways, he had become the prosecution's
Speaker 1: star witness against Kenneth within the trial. Roy would go
Speaker 1: on to serve five years for his role in the
Speaker 1: crimes and return to Marlin, where he still lives today.
Speaker 1: As for Kenneth, his mother hired a lawyer from Waco
Speaker 1: and attended the trial with her daughters. Kenneth of course
Speaker 1: denied any involvement in the killings, suggesting that Roy was
Speaker 1: the actual real culprit, claiming that the Falls County sheriff
Speaker 1: also had a vendetta against him for years. He's completely innocent.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I mean that doesn't even surprise me.
Speaker 1: Actually, I think generally people like that do just like
Speaker 1: not me. Yeah. So the court was, of course not
Speaker 1: buying his bullshit. In the face of the overwhelming evidence
Speaker 1: and testimony from Roy Green. Sorry Roy Green, Kenneth was
Speaker 1: given the death penalty in nineteen sixty seven. As we
Speaker 1: all know, many people who are given the death penalty,
Speaker 1: he can sit on death row for years, and Kenneth
Speaker 1: was no exception. Twice in nineteen sixty nine and again
Speaker 1: in April of nineteen seventy, Kenneth came within days of
Speaker 1: his execution date only to have been pushed back each time.
Speaker 1: While he was rotting behind bars, the landmark case of
Speaker 1: Firma versus Georgia was making its way through the courts. Now,
Speaker 1: this was a Supreme Court case in nineteen seventy two
Speaker 1: that had a profound impact on the death penalty itself
Speaker 1: within the United States. From this case, a Supreme Court
Speaker 1: ruled that the power given to the juries in capital
Speaker 1: trials in an ability to sway the decision towards the
Speaker 1: death penalty amounted to cruel and unusual punishment, effectively overturning
Speaker 1: all capital convictions within the country at the time, including Kenneth's.
Speaker 1: Within months, the death sentence of all total of eighty
Speaker 1: eight inmates on Texas Death Row, including Kenneth, were instead
Speaker 1: changed to life in prison. Now, generally, after trials, convictions, sentencing,
Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff, it's usually the end of
Speaker 1: the episode, right, and we've been recording for how long
Speaker 1: is it slready twenty three minutes?
Speaker 2: Yep, yep.
Speaker 1: There's not much of a story really to be told
Speaker 1: after that, to be honest, However, in this case, we're
Speaker 1: just getting started because a lot more, trust me, happens
Speaker 1: in this case.
Speaker 2: Okay, I honestly thought this was like the already the
Speaker 2: second part.
Speaker 1: No, that's basically the first half.
Speaker 2: He kind of already got away with a bunch of
Speaker 2: shit he did. Okay, God, I don't I don't understand
Speaker 2: on people like this. Okay, this person should be in
Speaker 2: jail and then they just get to go and recommit
Speaker 2: and ruin other people's lives.
Speaker 1: Did I not tell you you'd be angry with the system.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I was earlier today too when we
Speaker 2: recorded our Patreon episode myself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a similar situation.
Speaker 2: So calm theme here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Kenneth was transferred to the Ramsey Unit and
Speaker 1: assigned to work in the fields, a placement for inmates
Speaker 1: requiring the strictest of supervision. He was considered to be
Speaker 1: extremely dangerous in a high escape risk, so a watchful
Speaker 1: eye was always on him. In nineteen seventy seven, Addie
Speaker 1: McDuff hired a new attorney, and Kenneth's new representation, Gary Jackson,
Speaker 1: embarked on a long and costly mission to prove Kenneth
Speaker 1: had actually been framed, arguing that the true killer was
Speaker 1: in fact Roy Green. During his six years on death row,
Speaker 1: in seventeen years in the general prison population. Kenneth wasn't
Speaker 1: exactly a model prisoner, but he managed to avoid significant
Speaker 1: trouble along the way. He knew how to play the
Speaker 1: roles in prison and always seemed to put himself in
Speaker 1: a high societal position within the whole prison system behind bars,
Speaker 1: being able to manipulate people. He was like. He was
Speaker 1: very good with that manipulation and that manipulation tactic we
Speaker 1: often see in psychopaths and true statistic serial killers. It's
Speaker 1: a very prominent attribute that they all have. It would
Speaker 1: be in nineteen eighty when Kenneth's name came forward to
Speaker 1: the parole board. Kenneth tried to bribe his way out
Speaker 1: to freedom, but was unsuccessful. The bribery led to a
Speaker 1: third conviction, giving the jury the option to sentence him
Speaker 1: to life once again, which ultimately would have delayed his
Speaker 1: parole date until nineteen ninety two. However, with the assistance
Speaker 1: of his lawyer Gary Jackson, he got off scott free
Speaker 1: from that bribery. Then in nineteen eighty nine, despite being
Speaker 1: aware of his criminal history, Kenneth was set free on parole.
Speaker 2: Serious man who.
Speaker 1: Was on death yeah, is just like out and about Yeah.
Speaker 1: He wasn't the only one though, either. Eighty percent of
Speaker 1: parole applications were being accepted at this time due to
Speaker 1: overcrowding in Texas prison facilities. Eighty fucking percent.
Speaker 2: That is crazy. They were letting monsters walk like you
Speaker 2: would not want to be in Texas at that point.
Speaker 1: No, I guess that's why everyone carries a fucking gun
Speaker 1: down there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so wow.
Speaker 1: So as a result, they just let this man back
Speaker 1: into the public and and it was a man that
Speaker 1: was not going to change his ways now. In fact,
Speaker 1: they even had a second chance. Not even a year later,
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety, Kenneth was charged with making a terroristic
Speaker 1: threat as he yelled racial slurs at a group of
Speaker 1: young colored men. He even chased one of them down
Speaker 1: with a knife in his hands. Yeah, it was enough
Speaker 1: to revoke his parole entirely and return him to prison
Speaker 1: for the rest of his life. But again he was
Speaker 1: given the chance at freedom, and on December sixth, nineteen ninety,
Speaker 1: Kenneth McDuff was once again released to the public. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is an ongoing thing. It almost seems like some
Speaker 1: of these people just have like luck or something. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's luck I honestly think it's just
Speaker 1: a fault in the system. I really do. I think
Speaker 1: that there's people out there who are just not doing
Speaker 1: their fucking job.
Speaker 2: I guess. But also Karlos wills to be a bitch,
Speaker 2: And how do these people just keep getting like free?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Something bad has to happen him.
Speaker 1: It does. But we just covered a case recently on j. C.
Speaker 1: Dugard and she someone held captive in a backyard shed
Speaker 1: for eighteen years. Parole officers searched that person's house multiple times.
Speaker 1: FBI TOOI yeah, but they never went into the backyard
Speaker 1: and never found jac. They only searched the house. That's
Speaker 1: negligence so close, and I think in this case is
Speaker 1: negligence as well. So the authorities in the area of
Speaker 1: Waco knew that Kenneth was going to strike again and
Speaker 1: he was going to do something horrible. He was unfortunate,
Speaker 1: but there was nothing they could do but wait since
Speaker 1: he was out officially and legally. Sheriff Larry Pamplin said, quote,
Speaker 1: the most frustrating part is that we knew he was
Speaker 1: going to kill someone, We just didn't know when or where.
Speaker 2: Who said that?
Speaker 1: Sorry, Sheriff Larry Pamplin.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, no, they just know. Yeah, Okay, holy shit,
Speaker 2: that is so disturbing.
Speaker 1: I know that's a failure of the system through through.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Initially, Kenneth moved frequently, going from place to place such
Speaker 1: as Temple Rockdale, Cameron Bellmead, Tyler, Dallas, et cetera, typically
Speaker 1: staying close to his mother or one of his sisters,
Speaker 1: often with no visible means of income, but still driving
Speaker 1: nice new cars and spending a lot of money frivolously
Speaker 1: comes from mummy and daddy's money.
Speaker 2: I'm spurs. Mummy and Daddy are still supporting him, especially
Speaker 2: since he's like, yeah, he was on death row, he's
Speaker 2: a convicted fellow. Yeah, like he's a terrible person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, hey, parents love. We don't have kids.
Speaker 1: I don't understand that. We got dogs. I do anything
Speaker 1: for our dogs. How's that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: They're pretty. They're cute though, and dogs are better than people.
Speaker 1: I know that one came from DEMI.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: His random movements made it nearly impossible for Sheriff Pamplin
Speaker 1: and the mcnamaras, who were also other investigators on the case,
Speaker 1: to link him to any crimes. That they suspected him
Speaker 1: of committing. In the spring of nineteen ninety one, Kenneth
Speaker 1: actually enrolled in Texas State Technical Call in Waco and
Speaker 1: moved into the dormitories on Canvas. And whether his real
Speaker 1: intentions were to actually educate himself or not, it's a
Speaker 1: bit unclear, but the results are still the same.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. You see he's living in a dorm.
Speaker 1: He's living in a dorm.
Speaker 2: Okay, that is that's really not okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, at this time, living in this dorm, several
Speaker 1: Waco area sex workers were going missing. One incident involved
Speaker 1: a woman named Regina Moore, who was seen kicking and
Speaker 1: screaming in the cab of Kenneth's red pickup truck as
Speaker 1: it passed through a police checkpoint. Although the police questioned
Speaker 1: him several days later, nothing came of it.
Speaker 2: What do you mean, Like he was going through like
Speaker 2: a roadblocking yep, and this person was like scared for
Speaker 2: the life and they just like go through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he just went through. Yeah, there's a police blockade.
Speaker 1: He has a woman kicking and screaming for her life
Speaker 1: in his vehicle and he just drives through. This guy
Speaker 1: would just.
Speaker 2: Get away with anything.
Speaker 1: Many pretty much. So he was getting away That's my
Speaker 1: next line. Literally he was getting away with everything, with everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was getting away with beating up and nearly blinding
Speaker 1: a fellow student and threatening threatening several others with being
Speaker 1: reported to the police. Sorry, that line doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: He was beating up people. Okay, that's basically what I
Speaker 1: was getting out in that sentence. So by day he
Speaker 1: was an asshole of a student and by night he
Speaker 1: was a drug crazed prowler. Nobody still an asshole, yeah,
Speaker 1: just extra asshole, a super asshole. Yes, it's like Batman,
Speaker 1: but asshole.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, late on the evening of March first, nineteen ninety two,
Speaker 1: Kenneth parked his tan Thunderbird at the New Road Inn
Speaker 1: just south of Waco before he vanished that same night,
Speaker 1: less than a block away. Twenty two year old and
Speaker 1: Melissa Northrop was working the nice Ship night shift at Quickpack,
Speaker 1: which is a convenience store. Her body was found weeks later,
Speaker 1: bound and floating in a gravel pit in Dallas County,
Speaker 1: near where her car had been abandoned as well. Her
Speaker 1: body was in bad shape and indicated that she had
Speaker 1: suffered greatly before she had died. Kenneth took her from
Speaker 1: the store, forced her into her vehicle, and drove away,
Speaker 1: leaving no immediate trace of her whereabouts. A few weeks
Speaker 1: after she was a few weeks after she disappeared, police
Speaker 1: discovered her badly decomposed body. But they also discovered the
Speaker 1: badly decomposed body of Valencia k Joshua, who was a
Speaker 1: sex worker who was last seen on the campus of
Speaker 1: the college that Kenneth was attending, and at the time
Speaker 1: she was searching for Kenneth's room.
Speaker 2: Oh geez, And meanwhile, this guy is still supposed to
Speaker 2: be in jail. Oh yeah, yeah, Like, well, actually you
Speaker 2: shouldn't be alive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was days away from death row. Yeah yep.
Speaker 1: So in a shallow grave and wooded area behind the
Speaker 1: college is where she was found. So given Kenneth's history,
Speaker 1: authorities knew they had to act swiftly. Luckily, they were
Speaker 1: already keeping a close watch on him, knowing he was
Speaker 1: going to hurt someone. Kenneth had recently sold drugs to
Speaker 1: an informant, which gave authorities an opening. They charged him
Speaker 1: with possession of firearms and distribution of drugs and officially
Speaker 1: made him a federal fugitive. He was on the run,
Speaker 1: and a manhunt was officially on.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, here, I thought that we were just getting
Speaker 2: started with more crimes. To be honest, Well.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the man hunt at this point.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of things that are going down.
Speaker 1: We have two bodies that have recently been found. Kenneth
Speaker 1: can't technically be pinned to either of them yet. They
Speaker 1: just found in the vicinity and where he kind of was,
Speaker 1: so they need him for questioning. But now with him
Speaker 1: actually selling drugs to an informant, they can pin an
Speaker 1: actual case on them. What's the sorry case? What's the
Speaker 1: word I'm looking for crime? Crime? Yeah, he's a federal
Speaker 1: fugure fugitive. They can pin a crime on him. This
Speaker 1: is a true crime podcast, and I forgot the word crime.
Speaker 1: That's the word. Yeah, thank you, that's okay, you're doing that.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Now. The search was intense, and the
Speaker 1: search was extremely grueling, with Loman pulling a total of sorry,
Speaker 1: sometimes up to eighteen hour shifts at a time without
Speaker 1: any days off, often sleeping on the floor of the
Speaker 1: Marshal's office in the Waco office. Gradually they began piecing
Speaker 1: to Genneth together Kenneth's trail, So like, this is.
Speaker 2: A guy that gives a shit, Like he's like trying here, yes,
Speaker 2: which is awesome.
Speaker 1: There are detectives who are on his tail, who are
Speaker 1: trying to catch him. Who do you give a shit?
Speaker 1: It's like the judicial system. It's like the courts that
Speaker 1: just keep letting them go.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and it's probably keeping them up at night,
Speaker 2: like the detectives because they like essentially you said the
Speaker 2: one sheriff was like just waiting for him to kill
Speaker 2: his next victim. Oh, that's going to happen.
Speaker 1: Well, and I just said that these guys are hunting down.
Speaker 1: They're pulling eighteen hour chefs without days off, sleeping on
Speaker 1: the office floor, not even going home.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 1: I'm sure many of them ended up getting divorces or
Speaker 1: were separated from their spouses as a result.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's just like ruining more and more people's
Speaker 2: lives that not aren't necessary victims, but like other people. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So these dedicated individuals assembled a very dedicated task force
Speaker 1: in Waco, which included local police, Texas Rangers, FBI, the DEA,
Speaker 1: and the Bureau of Alcohol tobacco and firearms, with significant
Speaker 1: support from the US Marshall Service as well. They were
Speaker 1: getting pretty much militant at this point. Thankfully, due to
Speaker 1: the persistent effort of these law enforcement individuals, strategic use
Speaker 1: of media, relentless tracking with his associates, with his associates
Speaker 1: that they knew, and gathering vital information about his whereabouts,
Speaker 1: they began to make some serious progress tracking him down.
Speaker 1: One of his associates in specific, specifically by the name
Speaker 1: of Alva Hank Warley, even confessed to Kenneth's involvement in
Speaker 1: the abduction and murder of a woman by the name
Speaker 1: of Colleen Reid. It seemed that four days after Christmas,
Speaker 1: Alva had ridden with Kenneth to Austin to go find
Speaker 1: themselves some drugs because hey, why not, right, That's when
Speaker 1: Kenneth spotted her. Colleen Reid was washing her black Mesa
Speaker 1: in a car washing bay on Fifth Street. She was
Speaker 1: in the wrong place at the wrong time, just as
Speaker 1: Edna Sullivan was in nineteen sixty six, like just washing
Speaker 1: her car, just washing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sorry, but that is one thing that I
Speaker 2: do where I don't have fear, and now I have fear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good luck washing your car next time. Thanks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1: So Kenneth parked his car in the adjacent bay, so
Speaker 1: watch out with the adjacent bay next time you want her.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I'm not going to be able to
Speaker 2: do this.
Speaker 1: Okay, go through the touchless ones next week. You can
Speaker 1: lock your door.
Speaker 2: I know because I like going to this very once.
Speaker 2: But this isn't going to be okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not anymore. No, no, So Kenneth parked his car
Speaker 1: next to her, and he attacked Colleen, grabbing her by
Speaker 1: the throat and lifting her up off the ground so
Speaker 1: her toes barely touched anymore.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Honestly, now, I'm just thinking that would
Speaker 2: be so easy to do, like to go in just
Speaker 2: a car wash and like steal someone.
Speaker 1: You're gonna go a tack someone.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I'm not, but I can't do that anymore.
Speaker 1: I'm SayMore.
Speaker 2: No this the car washes. You took that away from me.
Speaker 1: Now again, what's your body count?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, twenty?
Speaker 1: Just kidding. If I go missing after tonight, guys.
Speaker 2: Honestly, you go missing, I don't think anyone will think
Speaker 2: it's me.
Speaker 1: Just kidding. Not after tonight, anyways, we digress. Kenneth parked
Speaker 1: his car and the adjacent bay attacked her, and his
Speaker 1: size gave him a huge advantage over her, and he
Speaker 1: quickly threw in the back seat of his with Vaccine's
Speaker 1: car with Alva, and they both drove off. A few
Speaker 1: miles out of Austin, Kenneth pulled over and swapped places
Speaker 1: with Alvin. I'm sorry, Alva, and while Alva now drove
Speaker 1: along the I thirty five, Kenneth stripped Colleen nude, put
Speaker 1: out a cigarette between her legs, and began raping her
Speaker 1: as well. When they stopped again to change places. As
Speaker 1: Kenneth drove, he told Alva to do the same.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: The car turned off the interstate to Texas Highway number
Speaker 1: three one seven you Kenna's parents' house. They stopped on
Speaker 1: a narrow dirt road. Kenneth ripped Colleen once again, and
Speaker 1: once he was done, she was taken out of the vehicle.
Speaker 1: She stumbled to her feet. She put her head on
Speaker 1: Alva's shoulder and pleaded, quote, please don't let him hurt
Speaker 1: me anymore. Kenneth shoved her into the trunk of his
Speaker 1: car and slammed it shut they drove off again and
Speaker 1: Alva was dropped off at home and he asked Kenneth,
Speaker 1: what do you intended to do to Colleen, to which
Speaker 1: he said, quote, I'm going to use her up and
Speaker 1: drove off.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, he's definitely gonna kill her for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, please believe. Kenneth buried Colleen in a field a
Speaker 1: few hundred yards from his parents' house. Unfortunately, her body
Speaker 1: was not found for a long time. It wouldn't be
Speaker 1: until nearly seven years later when her remains were positively
Speaker 1: identified in October of nineteen ninety eight. The discovery came
Speaker 1: after authorities received a tip from an informant which led
Speaker 1: them to a shallow grave near the Brazo River in Falls, Alas.
Speaker 1: Statement regarding this and what happened to Colleen was released
Speaker 1: to the media and brought national attention to the search
Speaker 1: for the monster known as Kenneth McDuck. But the biggest
Speaker 1: break in the case came when it actually was aired
Speaker 1: on America's Most Wanted on May one, nineteen ninety two.
Speaker 2: I love America's Most Wanted.
Speaker 1: That's a good shit, right, Oh yeah, So this exposure
Speaker 1: actually guarnered a significant number of public tips, including one
Speaker 1: specific one from a viewer in Kansas City, Missouri, who
Speaker 1: recognized Kenneth as a man who was working as a
Speaker 1: garbage truck laborer under the alias of Fowler.
Speaker 2: Really okay.
Speaker 1: Acting on this tip, Kansas City police quickly located him
Speaker 1: at a city dump where he worked, and, upon realizing
Speaker 1: that he was now surrounded, Kenneth surrendered without a struggle.
Speaker 1: They had him. I can see your gears turning you good.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'm just like so intrigued that he went
Speaker 2: into be like a garbage person.
Speaker 1: Ye that I guess mummy's money ran out. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but or he probably thought that he could hide
Speaker 2: that way right, like he wouldn't be seen or noticed.
Speaker 1: Really, maybe he really took that hide in plane sight
Speaker 1: to like a literal term. Yeah, yeah, probably. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: after Kenneth McDuff was arrested, he was charged with abduction, rape,
Speaker 1: and murder of Colleen Reed, Melissa Northrop, and Valencia K. Joshua.
Speaker 1: Authorities believed he was responsible for as many of nine
Speaker 1: different murders committed after his parole in nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 1: but were only able to charge him with the three.
Speaker 2: But nine people that could have been saved to nine
Speaker 2: people that we know of.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The trial took place in nineteen ninety three and the
Speaker 1: prosecution presented a very strong case against Kenneth, including the
Speaker 1: testimony of Alva Hank Warley, who detailed the events of
Speaker 1: Colleen Reid, the abduction and murder, physical evidence including DNA
Speaker 1: and witness statements. With all of the overwhelming evidence presented
Speaker 1: to the prosecution, it left the room for no doubt
Speaker 1: and the jury were able to quickly make their verdict.
Speaker 1: They found Kenneth McDuff guilty of capital murder of Colleen Reid,
Speaker 1: guilty of the capital murder of Valencia K. Joshua, and
Speaker 1: guilty of the kidnapping and murder of Colleen Reed, all
Speaker 1: three cases which were actually done separately in the court.
Speaker 1: Considering the heinous nature of the crimes Kenneth had committed
Speaker 1: and the violent history that he had actually possessed, Kenneth
Speaker 1: was for a second time sentenced to death. To death
Speaker 1: second time.
Speaker 2: Okay, did it happen or about now?
Speaker 1: I want to hear you do you think it happened? No,
Speaker 1: you don't think it happened.
Speaker 2: Okay, No, I'm like almost ninety nine percent sure, But.
Speaker 1: There's that one percent that says maybe I guess, but
Speaker 1: I'm almost one hundred percent sure. Oh yeah, okay, ninety
Speaker 1: nine percent to one hundred somewhere with him there, gotcha. Now,
Speaker 1: his legal team filed numerous appeals attempting to overturn this
Speaker 1: death sentence, but we're ultimately unsuccessful.
Speaker 2: Why would anyone want to, Like, he just needs to
Speaker 2: be in there.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine being a defense attorney for this piece
Speaker 1: of shit. I excuse my language, but he is well,
Speaker 1: I mean it's like.
Speaker 2: Excuse me, much's job, right, and they're making money, and
Speaker 2: I get it, But yeah, that would be definitely tough
Speaker 2: because you know that he's such a piece of shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, your name's probably got to be carled if you're
Speaker 1: going to be a defense attorney most likely. Yeah, do
Speaker 1: people get that? Some people, I'm sure to.
Speaker 2: Okay, someone was wearing a not cool car or ult.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they are somewhere, any I don't know where they are,
Speaker 1: but they're somewhere.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know where they are either.
Speaker 1: So November seventeenth, nineteen ninety eight, Kenneth McDuff finally met
Speaker 1: the consequences of his actions, and he was executed by
Speaker 1: lethal injection at the Hunts Unit in Huntsville, Texas. Like
Speaker 1: legitimately he was put to death.
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, yea, this is so nice. I always want
Speaker 2: to cheer at that, but I feel like I can't.
Speaker 2: So then all these people pend out for us, and
Speaker 2: that's so good.
Speaker 1: I know. We kind of want to play Devil's advocates
Speaker 1: sometimes and like we understand some people aren't aren't for
Speaker 1: the death penalty and stuff, so we kind of like
Speaker 1: try not to cheer at those moments. So thank you
Speaker 1: for doing all behalf of us.
Speaker 2: Well, No, if I do cheer at those moments, someone
Speaker 2: will literally send us an email tell me that.
Speaker 1: We've gotten hate emails for that before. Trust me. So
Speaker 1: this marked the end of a criminal career, one that
Speaker 1: had spanned decades and claimed numerous lives, and with his execution,
Speaker 1: the world had rid itself of one absolute big douche canoe,
Speaker 1: one that got off death role onto parole, did the
Speaker 1: same shit again, yeah, and was convicted and put back
Speaker 1: onto death row.
Speaker 2: I think it almost just makes you feel sick. I
Speaker 2: know that he had that opportunity to do that again.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm real.
Speaker 1: That is the story of the Broomstick Killer, also known
Speaker 1: as Kenneth Alan Nick Duff.
Speaker 2: Who no longer exists in this world.
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, thankfully. Okay. So there's something we always
Speaker 1: do at the end of an episode. I'm sure a
Speaker 1: lot of you are very aware. Nicole is a lot
Speaker 1: better at it than me. But we always say stay
Speaker 1: wicked at the end. Yes we do. We want you
Speaker 1: guys to be a part of it, please, So we're
Speaker 1: gonna do a three two one countdown, and we're all
Speaker 1: going to make sure that everyone listening to this episode does,
Speaker 1: in fact stay wicked. So you guys ready for it.
Speaker 2: Keep But we're just gonna say stay Wicked. We're not
Speaker 2: going to like extend the stay just stay wick.
Speaker 1: Just stay wicked, stay away. Okay. So how many whys? One?
Speaker 2: Just one?
Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm not like that one teachher we have
Speaker 1: where Yeah, okay, one we stay Okay, give them the countdown,
Speaker 1: you go for it.
Speaker 2: So three two one, Stay Wicked.