WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:10.880 The justice system always aims to correct what is wrong 2 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:14.439 in the world, ensuring those who commit violent crimes are 3 00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:18.120 locked up and families who are victimize find the closure 4 00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:23.280 they need. However, no matter the regulations, the legislations, and 5 00:00:23.320 --> 00:00:27.120 the bureaucratic red tape, there will always be a way 6 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:30.519 to fight back against the system. We are not a 7 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:33.840 perfect world, and to be humanist to error. But in 8 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:37.280 nineteen eighty nine, when a murderer was set free from 9 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:42.200 prison due to overcrowding, the justice system truly failed humanity 10 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:46.039 as they had just set free a monster to roam 11 00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:50.679 the streets. This is the story of the notorious Roomstick 12 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:54.320 Killer aka Kenneth mc duff. 13 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:58.920 My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked 14 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:01.600 and Graham Cried podcast. 15 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:09.560 Yes, Hell yeah. The following podcast contains graphic content and 16 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:31.920 material intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion advised. So 17 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:37.000 we're live, two hundred episodes later, and here we are. 18 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:38.079 Yeah, here we are. 19 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:39.840 Okay, we need everyone to give us like a big 20 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:42.239 old cheer or something right now because we're live at 21 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:49.159 Trench Brewing. How's it going. We have our first ever 22 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:51.480 live event and it is it's sold out. 23 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:54.200 Yeah, it's pretty cool. Who would have thought? Hey, I thought. 24 00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:56.159 I honestly feel a little bit of pressure because I'm 25 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:58.760 pretty sure everyone else who's graaced this stage before is like, oh, 26 00:01:58.760 --> 00:02:00.760 I'm going to sing some songs to some cool jokes. 27 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:03.879 We're just like murder. Okay, someone's gonna fucking die. 28 00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:05.840 That's cool. That part's not cool. 29 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:06.879 It's fair enough. 30 00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:09.319 Fair the true crime you know, fan is cool. 31 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:11.919 That's true. That's true. Okay. One thing I actually didn't 32 00:02:11.919 --> 00:02:13.840 ask before the show, and I'm curious about, just by 33 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:16.240 a show of hands, how many people here have actually 34 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:20.960 listened to our show before? And who here got drugged 35 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.120 to the show because their wife is really into true crime? 36 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:30.319 Knew that was gonna happen. Feel Yeah, that's actually how 37 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:32.680 we initially got started. Nicole was a true crime person 38 00:02:33.080 --> 00:02:34.560 and I was content creator. 39 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:36.319 But this was all your idea. 40 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:38.599 It was we weren't spending a lot of time together, 41 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:41.240 so we're like, let's spend some time together, and we 42 00:02:41.319 --> 00:02:41.680 like this. 43 00:02:41.719 --> 00:02:43.240 To work while we spend time together. 44 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:43.800 That's true. 45 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:44.439 All we do. 46 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:46.960 Actually fun fact, before we get and Grim actually had 47 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:49.800 another podcast, and my co host that podcast is sitting 48 00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:52.759 right there, so yeah, shout out to Mike over there. 49 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:55.840 Yeah back in the day. 50 00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:59.680 Yeah, yeah, that's cool. Good times. So we got quite 51 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:03.719 thesode here today. This is because it's a live event 52 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:06.479 and it is you know, sensitive topics and stuff. I 53 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:07.919 wanted to make sure that we had one that was 54 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:12.960 really well rounded. There is a sexual assault involved, but 55 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:17.000 it's yeah, you're going to be angry, and I really 56 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:19.080 hope I don't get assaulted after this because someone's pissed 57 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:21.759 off at me with how this goes so fingers crossed. 58 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:25.719 I mean, I'm generally angry usually while you're at the 59 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:28.719 cases and you, I guess both both. 60 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:34.039 Usually at me. Yeah, that's that's an ongoing theme consistently, 61 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:36.280 is Nicholls just angry with me? But what are you 62 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:39.039 ready to go through this? Yes, okay, we're ready. So 63 00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:42.280 the story of Kenneth Allan McDuff. Though not the friendliest 64 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:46.639 folks in Rosebud, the McDuff family weren't exactly considered the 65 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:49.879 worst of the worst. They were industrious, They were frugal 66 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:53.879 and regular attendees of the Assembly of God Church. One 67 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:57.120 of the family members was that of Kenneth McDuff. He 68 00:03:57.199 --> 00:03:59.919 was born March twenty first, nineteen forty six in Row 69 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.000 was but a small town in central Texas. His early 70 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:07.080 life was filled with dysfunctional family dynamics in an environment 71 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:10.439 that seemed to foster a lot of criminal tendencies. And 72 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:15.360 Kenneth's father, J. A. McDuff, well, he was sment finisher 73 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:17.600 who earned a good living during the construction boom in 74 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:19.920 the late seventies and the early eighties, so he set 75 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:21.040 up his family pretty well. 76 00:04:22.360 --> 00:04:22.519 Now. 77 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:26.560 His mother, Addie McDuff, was a domineering figure who ran 78 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:30.720 the household, and she ran it with an absolute iron fist. 79 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:35.439 She managed the family's finances, operated a laundrymat across from 80 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:40.879 their home, and fiercely protected her children, particularly Kenneth. Okay, 81 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:42.839 that don't get me wrong. I have nothing against a 82 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:45.480 protective mother. All the power to you. That's awesome, But 83 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:48.519 in this case I bear exactly the moment bear right. 84 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:51.680 In this case might have been a little bit much 85 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:53.800 in some sense, but you'll get the picture here in 86 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:57.120 a moment. So, despite having a younger sister, Kenneth was 87 00:04:57.160 --> 00:05:00.360 considered to be the baby of the family, always well rested, 88 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:04.040 with money lining his pockets whenever he needed it. His 89 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:07.959 mother had that overprotectiveness of him, and it bordered on enabling, 90 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:13.720 as she often defended Kenneth against any accusations or disciplinary actions. Now, 91 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:16.160 whether he was in wrong or not from either school 92 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:18.399 or the community, she was there to back him up 93 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:23.199 without hesitation. Teachers and locals referred to her as the 94 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:28.600 pistol packing Mama because she regularly carried a gun on 95 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:32.000 her hip with her aggressive defense against her son. 96 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:34.040 Okay, honestly, I actually thought it was kind of a 97 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:35.480 cool nickname. I want that it is. 98 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:37.920 A cool nickname, But I mean, I can't imagine just 99 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:40.120 going to a regular PTA meeting with you know, just 100 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:42.040 like a nine iron on your hip or something that's 101 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:42.839 pretty aggressive. 102 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:43.680 It's a bit aggressive. 103 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:45.560 Yah, it's a bit munch and it sounds like that's 104 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:48.079 the kind of person she was, So pistol packing Mama 105 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:50.680 was something that was going around town quite a bit. 106 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:51.720 Now. 107 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:54.879 Kenneth was raised in an environment where he was never 108 00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:58.079 really held accountable for his actions. There's lack of discipline 109 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.399 and the boundaries allowed him to really develop a sense 110 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:05.480 of entitlement and quite frankly, in vulnerability as well. Now, 111 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:07.319 perhaps it was because of all this, or maybe he 112 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:09.839 was just you know this way to the core when 113 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:12.360 he was born, but from a young age he displayed 114 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:18.079 some troubling behaviors. He bullied his classmates, intimidated teachers, and 115 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:25.040 reveled in causing absolute chaos. Despite this outward confidence, Kenneth 116 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:29.879 struggled academically, possessing a below average IQ of ninety two. 117 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:33.839 Now what really brings up a red flag to me, though, 118 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:37.000 is that he made a point of flaunting his poor 119 00:06:37.079 --> 00:06:40.199 academic performances, turning his failures into a source of dark 120 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:42.920 pride instead of something else a little bit less desirable. 121 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:46.160 He's like, yeah, I suck at math. Fuck you like 122 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:49.079 that sort of attitude, right, I mean, good on you 123 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:51.199 for being confident, But at a certain point it's not 124 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:53.839 something to really throw in someone else's face. But that's 125 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:54.920 really what he was doing. 126 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:57.079 So he's like insulting people for being like. 127 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.639 Good at maths exactly exactly the whole like you know, 128 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:01.839 oh you or a nerds sort of thing. I'm better 129 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:05.000 than you because I'm not good at these things. Like 130 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:09.560 I get the I'm a cool guy aspect, but it 131 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:10.560 only goes so far. 132 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:12.920 Well, once he's stay in school, it doesn't go far 133 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:13.240 at all. 134 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:15.879 Exactly. Yeah, when you get into adult life, that sort 135 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:18.120 of stuff catches up with you real fast. Eventually you'll 136 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:21.959 end up, like, I don't know, hosting a podcast or something. 137 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:24.000 What the. 138 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:26.160 I did? 139 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:26.759 Okay? 140 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:30.639 Now, as a teenager, Kenneth began engaging in more serious 141 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:34.279 criminal activities. His only close friend was his older brother Lonnie, 142 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:39.720 nicknamed and I love this nickname, rough tough Lonnie McDuff. Yeah, 143 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:41.240 he was the family troublemaker. 144 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:42.160 Nice. 145 00:07:42.279 --> 00:07:45.560 Clearly this this town had some had an affinity for nicknames, 146 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:49.519 because they're laying it out there. And now, for example, though, 147 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:52.800 regarding Lonnie, he once pulled a knife on a school principle. 148 00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:56.759 That principle was DL Mayo. Now, I mean that on 149 00:07:56.839 --> 00:08:00.879 itself sounds like a really scary situation, but funny enough, 150 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:03.800 this principle didn't take no shit. He was not a pushover, 151 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:05.839 and he promptly threw Lonnie down a set of stairs. 152 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:10.399 So, oh, man, I mean that wouldn't fly nowadays. No, No, 153 00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:11.600 it really wouldn't. 154 00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:16.399 So Lonnie encouraged Kenneth's resentment towards society, reinforcing the notion 155 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:19.040 that the world was actually against him. And I think 156 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:20.680 that really builds up in the fact that he was, 157 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:23.920 you know, terrible at things like academically, and he's all like, 158 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:25.839 you know, I'm better than you because I'm bad at 159 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:28.079 these and then saying, you know, the world is against you. 160 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:30.639 Societal standards are you have to do good in school 161 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:32.840 and he's like, yeah, the world is against me because 162 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:34.919 I'm different. I'm bad at school, like that sort of stuff, 163 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:37.440 you know. So it was really reinforced, especially when it 164 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:40.480 came to his older brother. Now by his late teens, 165 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:43.679 Kenneth was breaking into buildings and engaging in petty theft. 166 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:47.600 At seventeen, in nineteen sixty four, he confided in Lonnie 167 00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:50.559 that he had actually raped a woman and left her 168 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:51.240 for dead. 169 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:53.799 Oh my gosh, what a winner, ain't Yeah. 170 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:55.720 No shit, And this is the first time that we 171 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:59.480 really get into actual violence with him. Now. As it 172 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:02.919 turns out, though this story, as far as his brother 173 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:05.840 just thought it was, it was actually true and not 174 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:08.840 just the words of someone trying to act tough. Kenneth 175 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:12.440 had raped a woman, cut her throat, and left her 176 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:15.799 for dead in a ditch. Good lord, But the woman 177 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:19.639 survived the attack. Okay, she survived the brutal assault and 178 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:22.679 later actually gave birth to his daughter as a result 179 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:24.120 of the assaults. 180 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:28.879 Oh okay, yes, it's brutal. That's some brutal shit. 181 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:32.159 Now that daughter would going to be named Teresa. His 182 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:35.399 crime went unreported at the time, which allowed him to 183 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:40.360 avoid immediate consequences. Teresa didn't know who her dad was, 184 00:09:40.519 --> 00:09:44.360 probably good. Probably she grew up not knowing him until 185 00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:48.120 she was twenty one years old, which is eventually later, 186 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:51.200 several decades later, when they discovered that he had actually 187 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:54.320 assaulted this woman. But she got to know her dad 188 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:56.080 a little bit. She got to know the man behind 189 00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:59.480 the name Kenneth McDuff, and eventually, once she really got 190 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:01.360 to know him, she fled the state. 191 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:04.840 Okay, so she knew what was up there with him, 192 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:06.759 she did. Oh that's brutal. 193 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:09.639 Yeah. No, this guy, I mean at the time when 194 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:12.399 she actually met him and got to know him, is 195 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:15.559 much later after some of his crimes that we do. 196 00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:17.240 But it's just kind of set in that bar for 197 00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:20.639 what kind of guy this is? His first act was 198 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:23.759 something like this, and his daughter, after that many years finally. 199 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:25.320 Seeks him out, wants nothing to do with that. 200 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:28.759 Gone. What she did, well, she learned when she learned 201 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:31.600 who he was. Yeah, she was out not having. 202 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:32.039 Him fair enough. 203 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:35.360 Yeah. So, in nineteen sixty five, Kenneth was convicted of 204 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:38.039 multiple burglaries and was sentenced to a total of fifty 205 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:41.279 two years in prison as a result. However, due to 206 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:43.679 the concurrent sentencing at his age, he was released on 207 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:46.360 parole in less than ten months. 208 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:49.240 Came he had fifty two years, Yes. 209 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:51.200 Fifty two years and he had ten months. 210 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:53.000 Okay, yeah, that makes sense. 211 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:56.799 Totally right, Yeah, that checks out. Holy shit. So Kenneth 212 00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:01.360 underwent a subtle but lethal transformation as a result of 213 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:04.600 his ten month short prison sentence. He believed he had 214 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:07.440 gotten away with murder, and he was hardened by the 215 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:11.559 brief and lenient prison terms and developed an exaggerated sense 216 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:15.559 of invulnerability the one that he already had going in As. 217 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:17.159 A result, totally yeah. 218 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:20.720 Now, no longer a boy, Kenneth had grown into a 219 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.879 six foot three inch tall, two hundred plus pound man. 220 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:29.519 The size made him a really imposing figure. Although prison 221 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:31.960 hadn't taught Nneth how to make friends, it had actually 222 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:35.639 showed him how to attract smaller and weaker individuals who 223 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:39.360 he could intimidate and manipulate to be alongside him. 224 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:41.679 Okay, so it actually made him much worse. 225 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:43.519 It made him worse as a result. Yeah, okay, and 226 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:46.840 it's only over the course of ten months. So now, 227 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:51.159 one such unfortunate companion was that of Roy Dale Green. Now, 228 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:53.000 Roy was a younger boy who lived with his mother 229 00:11:53.080 --> 00:11:56.720 in Marlin and worked for Kenneth's father. Two years younger 230 00:11:56.759 --> 00:12:00.919 than Kenneth, Roy was captivated by Kenneth's tailor of sadistic 231 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:04.039 sexual acts, such as what he had done as a 232 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:08.000 result of his daughter Teresa yours earlier, Kenneth boasted of 233 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:12.840 raping and strangling multiple women. To quote him, in fact, 234 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:20.240 killing a woman's like killing a chicken. They both squawk, serious, fuckingly, 235 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:21.200 that's fucked up. 236 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:22.320 That's real. Fuck. 237 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:25.399 Yeah, we were talking because we had chickens. We were 238 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:27.399 talking about chickens earlier, and I was like, yeah, there's 239 00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:29.120 something to do with chickens in this episode. That's what 240 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:29.799 I was alluding to. 241 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:33.279 That wasn't really what I imagine. How did you guess that? 242 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:36.279 Holy shit, this guy is a real piece of shit. 243 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:40.039 Oh yeah, full on douche kinem for sure. So Roy 244 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:42.320 was never really sure if you could believe the stories 245 00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:45.000 that Kenneth was telling though, that is, until the evening 246 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:49.879 of August sixth, nineteen sixty six. It was a Saturday, 247 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:52.840 and Kenneth was itching to prowl. He and Roy had 248 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:56.039 spent the morning pouring concrete a construction site in Temple. 249 00:12:56.159 --> 00:12:59.000 After work, they cleaned up and headed for Fort Worth 250 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:02.080 and the new Dodge Charger Kenneth's mom had just boughttom 251 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:03.240 upon his release from prison. 252 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:06.080 A gift, A little gift. 253 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:07.679 Yeah, She's like, oh, you're free from prison. Here's a 254 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:10.519 brand new Dodge Charger. Holy shit, I said he was 255 00:13:10.519 --> 00:13:12.120 the baby money lining his pockets. 256 00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:15.039 Huh, It's true, Okay. 257 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:16.600 Roy, who was eighteen at the time, had never been 258 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:19.919 to Fort Worth, m Kenneth, having worked there four years earlier, 259 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:22.279 claiming to knew some girls in the area. So they 260 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.960 went cruising through the small town of Everman, just south 261 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:28.600 of Fort Worth, drinking beer, visiting friends, including a girl 262 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:31.840 Kenneth knew from church. Later that evening, after dropping the 263 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:35.320 girl off at home, Kenneth found what he was looking for, 264 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:38.600 what he really went to the town for. He found 265 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:41.240 a pretty teenage girl in a red and white striped 266 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:44.440 blouse and cut off jeans standing near a baseball field 267 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:48.440 talking to two boys in a nineteen fifty five Ford car. 268 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:52.840 Purely by chance, Kenneth selected these three as his victims. 269 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:57.399 They were sixteen year old Edna Sullivan, her boyfriend, seventeen 270 00:13:57.440 --> 00:14:01.120 year old Robert Brand and Robert's cousin, fifteen year old 271 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:05.120 Mark Dunham. Now they were just chilling out, and Mark 272 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:09.360 the cousin was visiting from California. Roy Dale watched with 273 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:12.559 a mix of curiosity and horror as Kenneth approached them 274 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.840 and pulled out his thirty eight caliber pistol from under 275 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:19.519 his car seat and pointed it directly at the teenagers. 276 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:24.399 Things escalated fast immediately. He held them at gunpoint and 277 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:27.320 demanded the boy's wallets. Then he forced all three of 278 00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:29.639 them into the trunk of the car, locking them inside, 279 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:32.519 and to quote him, they got a good look at 280 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:34.480 my face. I'll have to kill him. 281 00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:36.200 Oh gosh, okay. 282 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:39.440 They then drove off with the kids in the car, 283 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:42.000 all stuffed in that trunk, and Kenneth took them down 284 00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:45.159 a dark and narrow dirt road, while roy followed in 285 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:49.000 the dodge closely behind, still not entirely convinced Kenneth was 286 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:51.720 really gonna do anything. Harmful to these kids. Up until now, 287 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:53.159 it's just been stored. 288 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:55.639 He's just observing this king. 289 00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:58.960 He's going along with Kenneth. Like Kenneth is really, like 290 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:01.080 they said, from prison, he's learn how to manipulate people 291 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:03.720 to really be as like, I don't know, sidekick if 292 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:05.519 you will, right, And he did that to Roy. So 293 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:08.039 Roy's like, eh, you know, like we hang out, you 294 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:10.200 tell me stories, we have good time. I'm close to you. 295 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:13.120 We're doing this thing. Are we really doing this thing? 296 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:15.039 I guess we're doing this thing? Is it actually gonna 297 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:17.399 like he didn't really know. He was just going with 298 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:19.879 whatever Kenneth said, because that's how they operated. 299 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:22.600 Okay, that just seems so wild, hey, like make your 300 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:26.759 own choices. Yeah, fair enough, don't kill three people fair enough. 301 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:29.720 Now. Eventually they turned off onto a road and ended 302 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:33.039 up in a field where they stopped. Kenneth opened the 303 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:35.919 trunk and pulled Edna Sullivan out by her arm and 304 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:38.559 instructed Roy to lock the other two boys back in 305 00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:42.519 the trunk of the dodge, which he did. The boys, 306 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:46.159 as they're being locked in the trunk literally began begging 307 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:49.679 for their lives, begging to be set free. But they're pleased, 308 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:52.360 though fell on deaf ears as Kenneth raised the gun, 309 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.399 pointing it directly at the boys and shot them both 310 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:56.879 in the face. 311 00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:59.000 Just like that, Eh, just like that. 312 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:02.720 He shot Brand twice and done him three times, then 313 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:05.039 lifted done and again by the hair and shot him 314 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:08.840 one more time for good measure. Roy was horrified when 315 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:10.759 he saw the gun being fired with the kids and 316 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:14.279 covered his ears and looked away, but not before witnessing 317 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:16.960 the look of joy on Kenneth's face. 318 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:19.720 Oh man, so he was like really enjoying. 319 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:22.600 Oh he was full on it, like sadistically enjoying this. 320 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:24.759 He knew what he was going to be doing, and 321 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:27.679 he probably knew that Roy didn't believe him, and doing 322 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:31.320 it probably made it even more like enjoyable for him 323 00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:31.759 the moment. 324 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:36.480 I can't even fathom that, Like, I just can't that 325 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:39.240 you would just like like just take two people's lives, 326 00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:41.279 like no big deal and it was nothing for him. Yeah, 327 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:42.320 then he enjoyed it. 328 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:45.320 So. Now unable to close the trunk with the two 329 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:49.440 deceased kids inside, Kenneth chose to back the ford up 330 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:52.240 against a fence. He and Roy then drove away in 331 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:55.240 the dodge, leaving the terrified, Edna Sullivan still walked from 332 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:58.559 the trunk of that car. They headed south, crossed over 333 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:00.559 the Johnson County line, and eventually he came to a 334 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.799 stop at a dirt road approximately eleven miles from where 335 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:06.720 they left the boys. Kenneth forced Edna out of the 336 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:10.680 trunk and made her undress at gunpoint. He then threw 337 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:14.200 in the backseat of the car and began to rape her. Afterwards, 338 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:16.960 he made Roy do the same, and then after that 339 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:18.839 he took a turn again too. 340 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:20.799 Okay, after that, I thought you're going to say they 341 00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:23.960 killed her, but well, they're just prolonging this. 342 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:29.319 We're getting there, okay. So after enduring this horrible trauma 343 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.480 for a while, Edna was then taken via the car 344 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:34.720 to had another location and was told to sit in 345 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:38.720 the middle of a dirt road. As she walked along 346 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:40.599 that dirt road to the spot where she was told 347 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:43.839 to sit, without any other choice, she just did what 348 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:49.519 she was told. So with Kenneth's large frame and body weight, 349 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:52.119 he then climbed on top of her and began choking 350 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.680 her with a broomstick, pressing it right against her throat, 351 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:59.799 and then Roy's own words quote he mashed down hard, 352 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:02.839 and as she was kicking and trying to defend herself 353 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:05.799 from the attack, trying to survive, Kenneth instructed Roy to 354 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:08.359 hold her legs down and from there Kenneth crushed her 355 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:11.279 throat until Edna stopped moving. 356 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:14.039 Okay, good god, I thought you were picking like a 357 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:18.000 chill true crime case. This is not fucking chill. 358 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:22.839 It's relatively it's not chill. It's just not super graphic. 359 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.359 But I'm like sweating, this is quite intense. 360 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:27.359 Have some more of your drink. I'm good. 361 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:30.039 So now the broomstick Killer is born. 362 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:32.559 That's how the broomstick Killer is born. And honestly, this 363 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.359 is the only time he uses a broomstick. It was 364 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:36.880 just like the one off that was like people are like, 365 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:38.160 oh my god, what the fuck? 366 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:41.279 And yeah, wow, that poor girl. 367 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:43.440 I can't imagine the horror that went through her mind 368 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:46.599 in that moment. So, without a care in the world, 369 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:48.920 and with what he had just done, Kenneth threw her 370 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:51.359 body over a fence and then headed back to the 371 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:53.119 two or sorry, and then the two men headed back 372 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:57.799 home the night left with Roy being completely traumatized with 373 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:01.000 what just happened. He followed Kenneth did exactly what he 374 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:02.960 was told, but never wanted to be a part of 375 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:06.680 any of it. He never really believed Kenneth was capable 376 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:09.519 of this. All those stories he just thought were exactly that, 377 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:14.920 just stories. But he was wrong. The next afternoon, while 378 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:17.599 you know, taking a Sunday drive with some more friends, 379 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:20.079 the news of the killings came on the radio in 380 00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:24.039 the car, and instantly Roy became overwhelmed and he blurted 381 00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:26.960 out the entire story to his friends in the car, crying, 382 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:29.960 oh my god, I've got to tell someone. 383 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:33.480 Really, So he just couldn't keep that in whatsoever. 384 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:35.200 He did not want to be any part of it. 385 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:37.680 He was forced to be a part of it in 386 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:38.839 one way, and at. 387 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.279 Some point I feel like he could have maybe backed out. 388 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:44.839 Now maybe. I mean, Kenneth's a big dude, and he 389 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:47.680 also had a gun, and there's a lot of things 390 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:49.799 to go as far as what people can do with manipulation. 391 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:52.960 Kenneth knew what he was doing. Okay, I'm not saying 392 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:56.160 Roy is without fault. He took part, he raped her, 393 00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:58.640 trust me, he's a piece of shit too, But he 394 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:02.279 didn't want to really, at least go that far, at 395 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:07.319 the very least so anyways, he had become the prosecution's 396 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:11.039 star witness against Kenneth within the trial. Roy would go 397 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:12.839 on to serve five years for his role in the 398 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:15.960 crimes and return to Marlin, where he still lives today. 399 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:19.440 As for Kenneth, his mother hired a lawyer from Waco 400 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:22.880 and attended the trial with her daughters. Kenneth of course 401 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.799