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Speaker 1: This is a Bigfoot and Beyond special bulletin.

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Speaker 2: Everybody. This is Cliff. I'm hanging out with Matt Pruitt today.

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Bobo is in the woods. Today is Friday, March twentieth.

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I just got back from a week in California. I'll

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tell you about that on the next episode. And Matt

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thought it might be a good idea to do a

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few minutes on the most controversial thing that's hit the

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Bigfoot community in quite a while.

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Speaker 1: Matt, you want to talk about that for a second. Yeah,

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I thought it would be good to let our listeners know.

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So the episode that you're about to hear was actually

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recorded on Wednesday, March the eleventh, in anticipation of Cliff

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doing some traveling and getting together with Bobo. So very

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often we'll cram episodes and get a couple of weeks ahead.

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But since the time we recorded that episode, obviously some

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news has come out and a whole lot of conjecture

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and speculation about that news, and so we have understandably

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been inundated with messages and emails and questions and a

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lot of people saying, why aren't you guys talking about this? Well,

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Cliff was out of town until win Cliff like last night.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I got back into town late last night. I

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wasn't even due home until today, but a small miracle

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happened in my life and I ended up having to

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come home a day early because of that. I'll tell

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you about that later, of course. But I've been gone

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since Monday morning. And again it's Friday right now.

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Speaker 1: Yep, and Bobo's out in the woods and having fun

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with other squatter buddies of ours. So it'll be a

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minute before we get to record and talk again. But

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in the meantime, we have not gotten to see this documentary,

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which I know we would all love to. But first

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of all, the audience might be interested to know that

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we've been aware of the existence of this found footage

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for how long?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I think I heard about it a minimum April April,

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because it might have even been March.

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Speaker 1: April and March of twenty twenty five, so for over

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a year roughly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly just about a year actually, anow that

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you're mentioning, I keep forgetting this March right now, I

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was being courted to be in the documentary actually at

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the time, So yeah, so just about a year I've

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been aware of this thing, and I that they had

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some sort of piece of footage or something like that.

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But I think the focus here though, even though I've

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known about this for a long time, there's a couple

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of things that I think should be said. Number One,

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I have not seen the documentary. I was never even

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shown the piece of the controversial piece of footage, and

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until I do, I'm just keeping my mouth shut, unlike

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the vast majority of the bigfoot community apparently, who also

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has not seen the documentary. And I think that what

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we're looking at now is a It's not dangerous, but

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it's a kind of a dumb situation where people are

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taking other people's opinions and making it their own opinions.

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Then I just it was just a couple of weeks ago,

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mad that, or maybe even last week. You have a

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way better memory than I do. Wasn't I just talking

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about giving away your power to other people? And this

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is exactly what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think one of the frustrating things is to

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see how you know. It's one thing when people jump

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to conclusions, but it's another thing when people jump to

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other people's conclusions. And the reason I thought it would

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be interesting for the audience to know that we've been

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aware of this. You know, I was made aware of

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it by you. And so the fact that you, Bobo

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and I have been aware of this for a year

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and have elected to say, well, you know what, we

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won't talk about it until we actually get to see

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it and have something to say. That's based on our

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experience with the evidence as presented.

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Speaker 3: So when people keep.

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Speaker 1: Saying, well, hey, you guys need to comment on this,

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I'm like, no, we've waited a year. We can wait

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a little bit longer. I don't think that's a problem.

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And I also don't think that there's much to address

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other than the state of the so called community right now,

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and that's we don't want to jump to other people's conclusions,

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and we're not really in the business of having discussions

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about other people's discussions.

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Speaker 2: The whole thing is ridiculous. Everybody, just calm down a

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little bit, wait until you see it, because again I

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haven't seen the documentary, and neither of have most of you.

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Speaker 1: It has sort of always been our policy here on

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this podcast not to talk about things that the audience

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couldn't see. If we can help it. Now, Like if

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we're talking to an old case that you know, there's

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no evidence. But it's like, we can speculate about William

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Rowe or Glenn Thomas or Albert Osman all day long,

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but when something is forthcoming and it will be released,

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it's like, oh, well, let's just wait until that's released

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to talk about it, because it doesn't make sense to

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talk about it now before the audience can also see it.

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And so that was the same with this particular documentary

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and this piece of found footage too. So I think

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we'll just stick to our guns on that one because

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we've already waited a year while no one knew anything

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about it, and so I don't think it would be

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hard to wait longer.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, And it's no big deal, just a

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little bit longer. Patience is an attribute of bigfooters, So

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why not just have a little bit more. We'll see

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what it says. If the evidence is there, give it

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to us. Let's find out what the truth is. I mean,

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I think it's important to weed out the fakes in

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the past, but make sure it's evidence and not just

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to claim. So I don't know, that's just my opinion

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on the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: And like Cliff said, Bobo's out in the woods, so

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he can't be here with us, but we did get

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a pre prepared statement for you, Bobo, what do you

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think about hype in general?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not all it's cocked up to be.

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Speaker 1: We agree with that. And so what would you say

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to the people that are just spreading hype kind of baselessly?

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Speaker 3: Bobo? F you?

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Speaker 1: And then any final thoughts about the current state of affairs,

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like the current state of Sasquatchrey.

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Speaker 3: Excuse it?

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Speaker 1: Well you heard it here, folks.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well that with that last message from Robo Bobo,

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let's continue to keep it squatchy here and jump into

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the regular episode that we already prepared for you. Thank

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you everybody for listening, and hope you enjoy the next hour.

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Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.

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Speaker 2: These guys are your favorites, So like Shay, subscribe and raid.

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Speaker 3: It five star.

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Speaker 1: Me Great Conquest Today.

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Speaker 2: Listen watch.

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Speaker 1: Is Cheap and Squatchy and now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman

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and James Boobo Fay.

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Speaker 2: Greetings, Bobo is up? Cliff, I don't know, just doing

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my thing, Man, just doing what I do, Like I know,

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tomorrow tomorrow. This is a big deal. I drive up

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to Michael Wallace's house. He lives up in Washington. Michael

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Wallace is the son of Ray Wallace, notorious hoaxher, et cetera.

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Michael Wallace has a book out called Son of Bigfoot,

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and he talks about how he's pretty confident that his

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dad faked the tracks that Jerry Crue cast. I am

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doubtful and might now mind you, when I met Michael,

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he recognized me because I guess he watched the show

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or something like that, and he knew I was at

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the same conference as him as over his squatch Fest.

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And he goes out, now, Cliff, just because my dad

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made the Bigfoot footprints does not mean that Harry harmonoids

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are not walking around right now. So he's very very

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open to that. But I am I am gonna need

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some convinced that his tracks are responsible for the Jury

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Group tracks, because the Jerry Crew tracks show some anatomical

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features that are very very interesting. And of course there's

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other photographs from that same scene, like the same night,

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basically the same day, or two of tracks in the

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ground that show different tow positions, et cetera. But I'm

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going up there because he still has a number of

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stompers in his possession, and I'm going to document them

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and take pictures of them against a you know, a

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back a grid background so we can see what size

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they are. I'm going to see if he will allow

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me to put them on, to don the stompers and

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make some tracks in the ground and cast them.

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Speaker 3: We'll see.

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Speaker 2: I'll report back next time I speak to you about

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what actually happened. But tomorrow is going to be a

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big day because to my knowledge, and I could be wrong, Matt,

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and maybe you know this because you pay attention to

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the community a little bit more than I do. Has

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anyone ever had the opportunity direct access to the stompers

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and maybe even putting them on?

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Speaker 1: Not that aware of I've never seen any images other

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than the ones that were presented to the press in

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the aftermath of Wallace's death.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and Bobo you same thing.

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Speaker 3: No, never, I never heard anyone doing that. Yeah, I know,

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I know the people that are not convinced those are

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legit tracks. So that's yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when Michael Wallace is one of them, and he's

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a lovely guy. When I talked to him like he

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was just absolutely lovely, a great sense of humor. We

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had lots of smiles and laughs. I've got nothing against

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the guy obviously, Like I'm not one of these guys

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that's going to come out swinging and say what an

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asshole you blah blah blah whatever. He didn't do anything.

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He was a kid man. He was raised in the

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logging camps, you know.

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Speaker 3: Ray adopted like a bunch of Native kids, like a

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dozen of them or something.

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Speaker 2: To my knowledge, he's not Native. Maybe he is, but

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to my knowledge he's not, And that could be wrong

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about that, But I will say he's a really nice

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guy and you know, much like his father, I guess,

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full of mirth and you know, joy and all that

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kind of stuff. Because at the end of the day,

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Ray Wallace, even though he was a hoaxer and he

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has complicated a lot of bigfooter's lives over the decades,

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he generally had a good sense of humor and that's

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where he was coming from, you know. But nonetheless, I

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don't appreciate hoaxing, and his father was associated with a

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lot of it. But nonetheless I'm not going to hold

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that against Michael. Come on, yeah, kind of yeah, how

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could I Michael's a good guy, and he's going to

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give me access to the stompers, so I'll know a

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little bit more about some stuff. Tomorrow I'm going to

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at least do an audio interview with him, and if

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he'll allow me, I'll do a video interview with him again.

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Tomorrow is going to be very telling in a lot

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of ways, but cool, significant Bigfoot history stuff is happening,

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as it always is. So yeah, that's tomorrow. I'm pretty

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excited about it.

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Speaker 3: Cool. Yeah, hopefully, Loan, maybe like you get a little

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more relationship going with the little lonely at the museum,

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taking him in for a while.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I wouldn't mind a bit. I wouldn't mind a bit.

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I'd love to have Michael down because we have I

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showed him pictures of some of the stompers we have.

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We have two sets of stompers at the muse right now,

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one of which was carved by Rant Mullins, probably specifically

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for that nineteen eighty two news event that he did

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on whatever news channel that was. I forget what it was,

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but they did a little thing on him where he

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went into depth about, you know, basically is pissing match

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with Ray Wallace back and forth about who's a better

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hoaxer and who owes who money for carving whatever fake

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prints were left around. But we have those and I

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know they're the same ones because they have the markings

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that you can see in the newspaper photographs like you

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can when you look at the stompers. There are certain

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marks in the wood, and you can see those same

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marks on the wood of the actual stompers themselves. But

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we have another set that was used in Renton, Oregon,

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back in the early nineteen seventies and they fooled Barbara Lawson,

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who cast prints, and I have the actual cast. You

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have the original cast on display at the NABC, as

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well as the original stompers that were obtained for the museum.

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We have those two. And when I showed pictures of

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the Renton stompers to Michael Wallace, his first words were, Yeah,

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that looks like Rant Mullens work, So I think those

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are probably Rant Mullins as well. I'm interested to see

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what kind of commonalities and specific markings are on the

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Wallace stompers that I might be able to attribute to

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certain track finds, specifically the nineteen sixty seven Blue Creek

242
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Mountain tracks and maybe the Onion Mountain tracks and whatever else,

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because I suspect those are probably hoaxed, and I'm curious

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about what sort of confirmation I might be able to

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get for that. So tomorrow's a big day. We'll see.

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Oh you know what I heard, and you know how

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a couple of weeks ago we kind of lamented over

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the death of our good friend Tom Cantrell. Yeah he

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wasn't dead. What really, that's what I heard. I heard

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00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,639
that he was not actually dead when we did that.

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I'm not sure of his current state, but from what

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I understand, everybody thought he died, but it turns out

253
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he didn't and he was still hanging on somewhere in hospice,

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and so to I was a friend, I'll say it,

255
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but I think it's funny that you know that rumors.

256
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It's like one of us have the rumors of my

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death have been.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: He may maybe he was actually dead at the moment,

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Maybe he was not, but I understand there was some confusion.

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Maybe he's alive now for all I know, And I

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think for all of us, Tom Kentroll will always live

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on our hearts.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know. Yeah, shoot that sus I was

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writing him a big long thing and then it uh

266
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you know, and then I got a word like, no,

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he passed away like an hour ago.

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Speaker 2: I got that word too, And then like a week later,

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I got a word that he wasn't dead. So I

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don't know who to believe or what to believe. I

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haven't seen in an obituary. Maybe maybe it's out there.

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I haven't really looked though.

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Speaker 3: If Lauren Coleman hasn't reported it, then he's alive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like we always defer to Lauren as far as

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he's alive. Yeah, you know, I believe Lauren told me

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a few years ago that he's actually written his own obituary.

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Speaker 3: He didn't mine.

278
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Speaker 2: We should get it and read it on the air

279
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to kind of confirm the rumors that you're dead.

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Speaker 3: No, he never he never posted it, but he had

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it ready.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, we should get it anyway. That'd be hilarious.

283
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Oh you know, it's gonna say, well, I know some

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things that could say. It'd be interesting to see what

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he actually thought made the cut.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think in the spirit of your South American bat,

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you should be mummified.

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Speaker 2: And put in Cliff Museum kept on my computer console.

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Speaker 3: That'd be cool.

291
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Speaker 1: That would be so great.

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Speaker 3: Like that rapper that died back he used a couple

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of years ago and his buddies took him out for

294
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the weekend. They threw a whole concert. They propped him

295
00:13:37,639 --> 00:13:39,240
up in the corner of the room and like played

296
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his music. I had never heard about that, but rapper, No,

297
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I think it was Atlanta. It's it's pretty funny, dude.

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The guy looks he looks dead, but he's like, you know,

299
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frozen in one position.

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Speaker 2: He looks dead. I'm assuming Monkey's bones have been burnt

301
00:13:58,039 --> 00:14:01,679
or something. Yeah, she got okay. I was hoping to

302
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,559
maybe get your bones and Monkey's bones and rearticulate them

303
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,120
every once in a while for the museum like a

304
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:08,679
Griver Krantz and his irishes.

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Speaker 3: That's a great idea.

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00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:13,159
Speaker 2: Thank you. You know he'll do that for you, Mark Marcel,

307
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,000
he would, he'd bury much.

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00:14:15,039 --> 00:14:16,480
Speaker 3: He could go bury me on the beach and take

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00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:17,799
up my bones like a year later.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, he's already looked into it, like he's looked

311
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,480
into the laws. If you will it to him, like

312
00:14:23,519 --> 00:14:28,080
if you sign some papers, Apparently it's doable. I'm in Oh,

313
00:14:28,159 --> 00:14:30,519
you should totally do it. He wanted to re He

314
00:14:30,559 --> 00:14:33,919
wanted Sochi's bones when she died, but I didn't have

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00:14:34,159 --> 00:14:35,639
the heart to do it. You know, it'd be heart

316
00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:37,440
wrenching for me. So I did not do that. But

317
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:38,679
I could do it with you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, as long as you put him up. I just

319
00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:43,159
don't want him sit in a box in the back.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, we'll put them on permanent display man awesome. Yeah,

321
00:14:47,639 --> 00:14:49,440
if if the law allows it, we'll do it.

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Speaker 3: He's give me the paper and i'll sign it.

323
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,039
Speaker 2: I'll talk to Mark, I'll do an email right now.

324
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I'll put you on it. I'll put prough It on it,

325
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:01,759
and i'll put Bigfoot and Beyond on it.

326
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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 2: Subject Bobo's corpse. Bobo has consented to allowing you to

328
00:15:14,679 --> 00:15:19,480
reconstitute his his skeleton after the flesh is eaten away.

329
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,399
Get the paperwork ready. There you go. Bobo has consented

330
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to allowing you to reconstitute his skeleton after the flesh

331
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has eaten away. Get the paperwork ready, Cliff, there you go.

332
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Speaker 3: Or you can send me up to Dan up big

333
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,080
Fur up in Canada and have him, like you know,

334
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,039
do a full taxi army.

335
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Speaker 2: Well, I mean I think a reasonable question would be,

336
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,799
like that would be cool, right, like stretching your skin

337
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,200
across the frame, et cetera. But isn't it kind of

338
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,320
a tip of the hat to Krantz to do the

339
00:15:50,399 --> 00:15:52,759
same with your body as Krantz did?

340
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, if I had Monk, I mean, if I had Monkey,

341
00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:01,399
you'd be freaking no brainer. But I mean being stuff,

342
00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:03,919
you know, and taxidermy that'd be pretty rad too.

343
00:16:04,559 --> 00:16:05,399
Speaker 2: It's groundbreaking.

344
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,039
Speaker 3: How do I want to be in cliff Museum, bones

345
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:10,279
or taxidermy?

346
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,600
Speaker 1: So now we wait for mister Mark Morsel to send

347
00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:16,679
us an update, So listeners, we will pass along updates

348
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,200
as we get them from Mark.

349
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Speaker 2: I cannot wait to have Bobo's corpse gracing our museum.

350
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Speaker 1: Hopefully it'll be a long long time from now.

351
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Speaker 2: We'll make you even taller.

352
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,200
Speaker 3: Oh you know what, I just realized, I'll probably, yeah,

353
00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:33,960
probably older. Maybe maybe I will just go bones. So

354
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,240
I don't want to be like in like all like

355
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,279
old old stuff. I mean, that'd be kind of young

356
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,399
to get STUDI Otherwise, Yeah, I gotta go bones.

357
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Speaker 2: And honestly, if like, if I had any hand in

358
00:16:45,159 --> 00:16:47,799
the taxidermy at all, when they asked me about like

359
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,600
how to make I would make you really really fat,

360
00:16:50,279 --> 00:16:53,159
thank you. You know, like the finding big Foot Bobo,

361
00:16:53,279 --> 00:16:55,559
like the big one that everybody remembers, like the one

362
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,039
that that is called my Bobo when people ask you

363
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:03,000
about you, how's my Bobo? Yeah, and get my wig totally.

364
00:17:03,559 --> 00:17:05,480
But yet, like if if we had to stretch your

365
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,119
dead skin over some large fat person's frame, that I

366
00:17:09,279 --> 00:17:10,960
was kind of weird and like distorted.

367
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,319
Speaker 3: You gotta have big fd Dan dude, he mean he's

368
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a world chat pro.

369
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:17,440
Speaker 1: Oh ken Walker or.

370
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Speaker 3: Ken Walker Ken It'd be kind of funny, but probably make.

371
00:17:21,759 --> 00:17:25,920
Speaker 2: Other people said, yeah, our museum does that anyway. Sometimes

372
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,680
that's not true at all. Actually it already walks out stoked. Yeah,

373
00:17:32,279 --> 00:17:35,640
stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.

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We'll be right back after these messages.

375
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Speaker 3: All right, I'm probably talking about stuffing my corps.

376
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Speaker 2: I don't know. I can't get enough of that, you know.

377
00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,359
Speaker 1: I was like I was digging into some stuff because

378
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,839
I always reread a number of the classics and some

379
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,160
of the old stuff. We talked several times about what

380
00:18:02,319 --> 00:18:04,839
the Four Horsemen got right or what they got wrong

381
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,160
or things that have sort of been updated. So I

382
00:18:07,279 --> 00:18:09,559
was rereading some of the papers in the Helping and

383
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,200
Ames book A Manlike Monsters on Trial, and I was

384
00:18:13,279 --> 00:18:16,240
rereading this John Green paper in there called what is

385
00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,519
the Sasquatch? And it was basically like an overview of

386
00:18:19,599 --> 00:18:23,799
his first statistical analysis of the first like thousand plus

387
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,960
reports that he had aggregated, and it was presented. You know,

388
00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:29,200
there was a conference at the University of British Columbia

389
00:18:29,279 --> 00:18:31,440
in nineteen seventy eight, I think it was called the

390
00:18:31,519 --> 00:18:35,200
Anthropology of the Unknown Sasquatch and Similar Phenomena, and then

391
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,680
a number of those papers were compiled into that book

392
00:18:38,079 --> 00:18:41,119
edited by Helping and Ames, that was released in nineteen eighty.

393
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,160
So I was going back through that paper and in it,

394
00:18:44,279 --> 00:18:46,960
you know, it's fairly brief, but Green lays out a

395
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,559
number of like bullet points almost, and I was like, oh,

396
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,240
this would be fun to go through those and see, like, well,

397
00:18:52,279 --> 00:18:54,720
what is held up over time? What things would you

398
00:18:54,799 --> 00:18:58,119
guys take issues with today now that it's twenty twenty six,

399
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,000
and you know, a lot's happened since Green's day and

400
00:19:01,079 --> 00:19:04,079
since that initial thousand plus reports. So I thought maybe

401
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,319
we could go through that for the audience and see

402
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,480
what you guys think of them in contemporary context.

403
00:19:09,599 --> 00:19:13,759
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, that sounds fun. Yeah yeah, I'm always happy

404
00:19:13,799 --> 00:19:16,279
to give my two cents, even if it's only worth one.

405
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,559
Speaker 1: Let me pull up the paper here and I won't

406
00:19:19,599 --> 00:19:21,480
read the whole preamble, but basically it says, you know,

407
00:19:21,559 --> 00:19:23,799
there's a bit of an abstract. It's obviously written by

408
00:19:23,799 --> 00:19:25,680
the editors. Is based on the study of more than

409
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,920
a thousand reported sightings of manlike monsters. This article presents

410
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,119
a statistical survey of the characteristics of the being seen

411
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,839
and of conditions under which they were cited, and Green

412
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,000
discusses a little bit of like preliminary information. Green basically says,

413
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,480
if such a creature does exist, a substantial proportion of

414
00:19:43,519 --> 00:19:46,559
the reports involve genuine observations of it, and from them,

415
00:19:46,759 --> 00:19:49,200
if they prove consistent, an accurate picture of it can

416
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,000
be drawn. It is my contention, based on the study

417
00:19:52,039 --> 00:19:55,319
of approximately one thousand such reports, that a consistent picture

418
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,839
does exist, and that it is not the one which

419
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,160
is usually presented to the public. Reports portrayed not a

420
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,799
semi human, but an upright eight, not an endangered remnant

421
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,559
of a species, but an extremely widespread and secure population.

422
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,240
Not a fearful monster, but a remarkably inoffensive animal. So

423
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,079
maybe we could start with those points. You know, I

424
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,119
think all that's held up pretty true in terms of

425
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,400
what people actually report, Maybe not what all podcasters and

426
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:23,559
YouTube channels portray.

427
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:29,759
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's some like linguistic details that I might

428
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,839
take issue with. I'm okay with does not portray a

429
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:37,920
semi human, because humans a pretty squishy term at best,

430
00:20:38,039 --> 00:20:41,039
I think, but an upright eight not an endangered remnant

431
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,440
of a species, but an extremely widespread and secure population,

432
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,440
Whereas I agree with the an extremely widespread and secure

433
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,480
population side of this, Like that statement I think is

434
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,400
in fact true, not an endangered remnant of a species endangered.

435
00:20:56,519 --> 00:21:00,640
I don't think they're endangered remnant of a species. That's

436
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,519
where I am nitpicking here, because they are a remnant

437
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,839
of a species that was most likely wider spread at

438
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:14,279
some previous time. So that's my only complication I guess

439
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:15,720
with what mister Green wrote down.

440
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,599
Speaker 1: You know, you wouldn't think that if they were let's say,

441
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,599
the descendants of Paranthropus or the descendants of gigantic A.

442
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,039
The kiss or some clade thereof like that there would

443
00:21:25,079 --> 00:21:27,960
be more of them now because they are more widespread

444
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,720
across Asia and North America and potentially Australia, you know,

445
00:21:31,759 --> 00:21:35,359
wherever these things might be, rather than just the progenitor population.

446
00:21:35,839 --> 00:21:38,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, but doesn't that make them the remnant of a species.

447
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,039
Speaker 1: Like a remnant would be what's left after the original populate,

448
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,440
like a smaller proportion of the original population. You know,

449
00:21:46,519 --> 00:21:48,759
if I eat a whole pizza and I save you

450
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,279
one slice, that's the remnant of the pizza, you know

451
00:21:51,319 --> 00:21:51,720
what I mean.

452
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I think that since we have a fair

453
00:21:55,039 --> 00:22:00,319
number of fossils from Africa, that any other population would

454
00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:03,519
be considered remnant species. I think that they are probably

455
00:22:03,599 --> 00:22:06,440
more common in Africa, you know, like a million years

456
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,960
ago than they are in North America today, based on fossils,

457
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,160
because fossilization is such a rare event at all, and

458
00:22:15,319 --> 00:22:17,680
the fact that we have a decent number of fossils,

459
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,039
not a ton, but a decent number of them from

460
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,599
Africa implies that there must have been just a ton

461
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,480
of them there. But then again, we're also looking at

462
00:22:25,519 --> 00:22:29,160
a spanse of time that is incomprehensible, you know, by

463
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,200
humans who live, you know, eighty or ninety years.

464
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,599
Speaker 1: So certainly, so that's a minor quibble.

465
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've got plenty of minor quibbles. That's what

466
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,720
I do. Quibbl Barrickman.

467
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 1: Like quibbo for so, before he goes into that sort

468
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,480
of like bullet point or the listed breakdown, he explains

469
00:22:49,519 --> 00:22:51,839
a bit more. I have no way of knowing how

470
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,400
many reports about such creatures there may be, but from

471
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,279
North America alone, I have more than a thousand on file,

472
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,640
plus several hundred more concerning footprints of assume utable size

473
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,480
and shape. For the animal described. With such a volume

474
00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:05,960
of reports, even allowing for the fact that an unknown

475
00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:09,680
number of them are manufactured or mistaken, some validity must

476
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,039
be assumed for those attributes and actions that are frequently described,

477
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,039
and consideration should also be given to those that are

478
00:23:16,079 --> 00:23:18,960
not described at all. There should be enough information to

479
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,279
tell us not only what the creature is, but also

480
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,000
what it is not. The following is a digest of

481
00:23:24,079 --> 00:23:26,400
some of the significant points that I've been able to

482
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,319
glean from the careful study of the reports. And so

483
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,359
the first one just is like a general physical description

484
00:23:32,519 --> 00:23:35,000
that I don't think any of us would Quipple with

485
00:23:35,079 --> 00:23:38,559
too much, but he basically says that sasquatches are significantly

486
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,279
larger than humans, not only in height but in size

487
00:23:41,319 --> 00:23:45,400
and mass, and statistically speaking, he says, the average of

488
00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:47,519
all of the height estimates is more than seven and

489
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:50,960
a half feet. In California and Oregon the averages exceed

490
00:23:51,079 --> 00:23:54,960
eight feet, and nowhere are they significantly less than seven feet.

491
00:23:55,519 --> 00:23:58,759
Perhaps more significant is the heavy build described compared to

492
00:23:58,799 --> 00:24:01,759
an average man. Fifty seven percent are described as quote

493
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,240
very heavy and thirty four percent as heavy, with only

494
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,519
six percent medium and three percent slim. So how do

495
00:24:09,559 --> 00:24:11,400
you think those numbers bear out today with all the

496
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:16,680
additional tens of thousands likely of reports on file a

497
00:24:16,759 --> 00:24:17,400
little shorter?

498
00:24:18,279 --> 00:24:19,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that we need to look at the

499
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,200
research done by Terrestrill, who is a guest on the show,

500
00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:28,720
and others that suggests that the people exaggerate height in particular,

501
00:24:28,839 --> 00:24:31,799
And you know, at the very least, people are terrible

502
00:24:32,039 --> 00:24:38,720
observers as far as like numerically they overestimate height because

503
00:24:39,079 --> 00:24:40,799
I think it's because it's such a number one. They

504
00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:43,000
can see the mass of the creature and then they

505
00:24:43,839 --> 00:24:48,200
falsely translate that into height. Versus mass. It is a

506
00:24:48,279 --> 00:24:50,799
profound experience to see one of these things for any

507
00:24:50,839 --> 00:24:54,000
length of time, and I think the weight of that

508
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,000
experience affects the weight and the size of the creature

509
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,880
as well. Basically boils down to I don't have a

510
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:01,839
lot of faith in people.

511
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:02,519
Speaker 3: Man.

512
00:25:02,599 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 2: There are observational skills and language skills, but I think

513
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,200
it's probably as Bobo said, exaggerated, oh certainly.

514
00:25:09,279 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 3: Now he does mention.

515
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 1: You know, small hairy bipeds are reported fairly frequently, but

516
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,799
only nine percent of the reports involved creatures described as

517
00:25:16,839 --> 00:25:21,799
being smaller than man, basically smaller than humans. Nine percent correct,

518
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,640
so just under you know, ten percent, And I think

519
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,240
that would hold true because sightings of juveniles are still

520
00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:30,119
pretty rare. I mean, they're out there, but it would

521
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,160
make sense to me that roughly one out of every

522
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,559
ten sidings is of a juvenile. Like I don't, I

523
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,960
would think that holds fairly true.

524
00:25:37,839 --> 00:25:40,559
Speaker 2: To this day. Yeah, you have to wonder, like what

525
00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:43,720
number of any population. I wonder if there's a standard

526
00:25:43,799 --> 00:25:45,920
number or something like that in humans or apes or

527
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,240
you know, related species with like a low birth rate

528
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,759
sort of thing, what percent of any given population is

529
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,079
not adult sized at the very moment. You know, that'd

530
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,720
be an interesting avenue to go whole, I guess to

531
00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:01,759
go jump down.

532
00:26:02,319 --> 00:26:04,319
Speaker 1: It would be because it's such a short period of life.

533
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,039
But I do think as a general overview, that makes sense.

534
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,599
So his second bullet point is they are solitary creatures.

535
00:26:10,759 --> 00:26:14,359
Only five percent of reports involved more than one individual

536
00:26:14,599 --> 00:26:17,799
and only one percent involved more than two individuals.

537
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 3: But audio report audio reports is way higher percent more

538
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:22,759
than one.

539
00:26:23,559 --> 00:26:25,559
Speaker 1: Or these days, for sure. But I wonder if he

540
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,519
was restricting this to just visual sightings.

541
00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably, Yeah, I don't, yeah, because they weren't really

542
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,559
into vocals back then. And also the audio reports, you

543
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,359
just don't know the size of the animal that's making

544
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,000
them because adult orangutans sound like what I would interpret

545
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,240
juveniles to sound like. So we just don't know, you know,

546
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,680
and listen to my shrieks and screams. You wouldn't think

547
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,960
that that was robust male specimen as I am. You

548
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,039
would think of some sort of like SaaS like girly

549
00:26:52,079 --> 00:26:55,640
sasquatch or a juvenile Yeah, you know, yeah exactly, So

550
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,160
we vocal stuff. You really can't you can't rely on

551
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,359
that information at all because that is purely speculation. It's

552
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,559
not observation at all. You can say a high pitch,

553
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,640
you can prove that that is observation, but you cannot

554
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,880
speculate and interpret with any relied upon accuracy.

555
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 1: I think, in my opinion, I would guess that when

556
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,960
he's doing this statistical analysis and saying only five percent

557
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,279
of reports involved more than one individual, he's talking about sightings.

558
00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:25,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd have to be.

559
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,519
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if that number is still true

560
00:27:28,599 --> 00:27:31,839
that Like, yes, we do find pairs of tracks in

561
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,119
terms of like maybe consort pairs or adult juvenile pairings.

562
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,440
Most of the time that I've heard things, whether it

563
00:27:37,519 --> 00:27:39,960
was wood knocks or vocalizations or things of that nature,

564
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,960
there were two individuals making sounds back and forth or

565
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,480
on either side of us. But it wouldn't surprise me

566
00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:48,640
if still only like five to maybe ten percent of

567
00:27:48,839 --> 00:27:51,880
all reports involved seeing two sasquatches.

568
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: Well, it left less than ten visual observations. Yes, but

569
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,200
that doesn't mean that they're not more sasquatch around. Oh.

570
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 3: I agree.

571
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 2: Track finds are I think tell a better story, a

572
00:28:05,319 --> 00:28:08,359
more accurate version of the story at least, and by

573
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,559
and large, probably about half the time that there are

574
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,759
tracks found, whether it's stuff that I'm finding, or the

575
00:28:13,799 --> 00:28:16,839
Blue Mountain or the Bluff Creek or any of those stuff,

576
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,839
there's generally more than one individual in the area based

577
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,039
on track finds. Now, as far as them being solitary,

578
00:28:25,599 --> 00:28:28,519
I guess we start equivalent again, because what does solitary mean.

579
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,279
Solitary might mean that they're generally alone, they can't see

580
00:28:32,319 --> 00:28:34,960
another individual in their line of sight, right, But at

581
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,720
the same time, does that mean, like if one is

582
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,160
two hundred yards away and they occasionally keep in contact

583
00:28:40,279 --> 00:28:44,279
via knox or other audio clues, that they are not solitary,

584
00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:46,720
Or what if, like an animal walks through an area

585
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,319
and then in the next hour and a half or

586
00:28:49,359 --> 00:28:52,319
two hours, another one walks through in that same general area,

587
00:28:52,759 --> 00:28:55,359
doing the same path because it's some sort of social

588
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,839
arrangement or social behavior that they have, does that mean

589
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:04,119
solitary even though they're both both the sasquatches are aware

590
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,880
of the other one's presence, you know, in time, I suppose, So,

591
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,680
I don't know. I think we run into issues about

592
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,559
what does this actually mean for this particular species, because

593
00:29:14,759 --> 00:29:17,480
it is a fact, at least that I interpret, you know,

594
00:29:17,519 --> 00:29:19,480
I'm not saying that I'm interpreting correctly, but I think

595
00:29:19,519 --> 00:29:21,839
I am obviously. But it is a fact that I

596
00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:25,799
interpret multiple individuals in the same general area based on

597
00:29:25,839 --> 00:29:28,839
their footprints. Whether or not they're at the same time,

598
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,599
I don't know that, but they're kind of close because

599
00:29:31,599 --> 00:29:34,720
the footprints are deteriorated at approximately the same amount. So

600
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,519
I don't know. So I don't think that. I don't

601
00:29:36,519 --> 00:29:39,640
think they're as solitary as a lot of people do.

602
00:29:39,759 --> 00:29:43,000
I think that they are very commonly close by, within

603
00:29:43,079 --> 00:29:45,480
a few hundred yards of other animals of the same

604
00:29:45,559 --> 00:29:49,359
species doing whatever they do, and they coordinate and use

605
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,519
each other's positions and whatever else to their advantage, you know,

606
00:29:53,599 --> 00:29:56,680
whether it's hunting down prey or whether it's foraging, you know,

607
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,759
bugs at a you know, rotting ceedar stumps or whatever.

608
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:00,160
You know.

609
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,359
Speaker 1: I agree, and I also, like I understand why Green

610
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,240
would come to that conclusion at that time, But I

611
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,200
still I would not be surprised if that number, if

612
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,640
those numbers still didn't bear out in terms of strictly

613
00:30:11,759 --> 00:30:14,960
visual observations that only this small number involved more than one,

614
00:30:15,119 --> 00:30:18,079
and an even smaller number involved more than two.

615
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:22,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had a much smaller database at this particular time.

616
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,480
And also Green wasn't exactly a field guy. You know,

617
00:30:26,599 --> 00:30:28,720
he did a did field work, don't get me wrong,

618
00:30:29,079 --> 00:30:31,519
but he's not doing like He's not going out like

619
00:30:31,799 --> 00:30:34,519
I kind of kind of consider myself a field guy, right.

620
00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:37,519
I go out at least once a week and walk roads,

621
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,400
whether I know there's anything there or not. My impression

622
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,200
of John Green, even though I know he went to

623
00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:45,279
the woods of fair Amount, is that he largely got

624
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,799
his sasquatch data by following up on reports and in

625
00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:50,519
which case, and a lot of this is going to

626
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:55,160
be observational visual data that he's relying these conclusions on.

627
00:30:55,359 --> 00:31:00,119
You know, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with

628
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,920
Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages.

629
00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: His next bullet point that he touches on, he says

630
00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:15,359
their hairiness is of the animal, not the human sort.

631
00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:18,880
Only eight percent of observers thought the hair was longer

632
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,880
on the head than elsewhere on the animal, and descriptions

633
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,680
of long head hair or of bodies only partially covered

634
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,680
with hair do not constitute even one percent. I think

635
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:30,880
that holds up pretty true.

636
00:31:31,359 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 3: Well, there's a lot of people that say the hair

637
00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:35,759
was patchy on the chest and the ribs and they

638
00:31:35,799 --> 00:31:38,720
could see the skin Like he's saying, that's that's that's

639
00:31:38,759 --> 00:31:39,519
only one percent.

640
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,279
Speaker 1: Well, what he's describing is it's probably harkening back to,

641
00:31:43,319 --> 00:31:46,039
you know, those early representations where people picture them as

642
00:31:46,119 --> 00:31:50,279
having like long flowing hair, almost like the stereotypical representation

643
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,319
of like an indigenous person. Yeah, and so he's saying, like, well,

644
00:31:54,319 --> 00:31:57,000
they don't seem to have like very very long head hair.

645
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,680
You know, only eight percent of observers thought the hair

646
00:31:59,759 --> 00:32:02,000
was long, longer on the head than elsewhere on the animal,

647
00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:05,880
and then subsequently saying descriptions of long head hair or

648
00:32:06,599 --> 00:32:10,359
of bodies only partially covered with hair, so not just patchy,

649
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,519
but like there's only hair in certain places and the

650
00:32:12,559 --> 00:32:15,920
rest of his bear. So those don't even constitute one percent.

651
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would definitely hear him, though, I think that

652
00:32:20,759 --> 00:32:23,640
kind of holds up, although one witness kind of stands out,

653
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,000
and I don't think he's necessarily contradicting any of this.

654
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,359
But one dude I spoke to in Washington outside of Woodland,

655
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,839
he'saw the thing of a number of times, actually over

656
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,799
a number of years in the same general area, and

657
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,240
he told me that it was hairy all over, but

658
00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:39,200
you can see through the hair, So I don't think

659
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,279
that's really what mister Green was discussing here. There are

660
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,920
other issues, so I don't know it comes down to

661
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,200
language again. But yeah, as far as like partially covered,

662
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:49,200
like hair was only on the shoulders but not on

663
00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:51,599
the chest, Yeah, we don't really hear about that. There's

664
00:32:51,799 --> 00:32:55,599
more or less uniformly covered in hair. Whether or not

665
00:32:55,759 --> 00:32:59,720
that hair is as thick in some places as others, well,

666
00:32:59,759 --> 00:33:02,079
that's different. That's a different question perhaps. Uh.

667
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: His next bullet point, he says the proportions of their

668
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,400
lambs are more human like than ape like compared to

669
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,160
a human and in relation to the general build, leg

670
00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:14,160
length is noted as medium in fifty five percent of

671
00:33:14,279 --> 00:33:18,559
descriptions and arm length as medium in fifty percent. I

672
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,039
could see where he would arrive at that statement, because

673
00:33:21,319 --> 00:33:24,319
you know, obviously guerrilla's champs and ranks have much much

674
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,480
longer arms than they do legs, and so since sasquatches

675
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,160
would be a bit closer in the lenks, although certainly

676
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,079
not equal at least based on the few bits of

677
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,200
multimedia of visual evidence that we have. But yeah, if

678
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,640
you were picking between quote unquote human like than ape like,

679
00:33:40,839 --> 00:33:42,960
i e. The other apes, I can see where he

680
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,680
would come to write that particular statement. But yeah, I

681
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,359
think that should be rewarded for sure.

682
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah at this point, I mean because all the

683
00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:54,200
other apes like orangutan's, chimpanzees and gorillas, they'll have an

684
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,799
i am an intermentbal index of over one. You know, basically,

685
00:33:57,839 --> 00:34:01,119
their arms are longer than their legs, like one point

686
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,640
eight or something like that, so one hundred and eight

687
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,720
percent the length of their legs or something, which is

688
00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:10,519
a very noticeable divergence from humans who have an intermemberable

689
00:34:10,599 --> 00:34:14,119
index of about points or seventy to one and seventy

690
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:16,920
two somewhere in there. So seventy percent the length of

691
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,599
their legs and their arms are seventy percent seventy plus

692
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,119
percent of the length of leaves Sasquatches based on the

693
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:25,079
PG film, and only the PG film, which is squishy

694
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,519
at best, have an intermemble index of about eight and

695
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:31,760
a half or eight eighty five, you know, zero point

696
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,840
eighty five I should say eighty five approximately, give or

697
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,679
take a little bit. So it is longer than in humans.

698
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:45,360
But is it so much longer that it's visually in

699
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,440
your face? I don't think so. I don't think so.

700
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,880
And there's also been some work I guess on the

701
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:53,920
cruel index, which I think is the length like something

702
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,159
to do with the legs versus like the top part

703
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:57,719
of the legs versus the bottom part of the legs.

704
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,800
I don't know. There's other indices that have been measured

705
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,440
by Bill Munns and others that show that these things

706
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,280
are absolutely outside the human realm in that sort of way.

707
00:35:07,599 --> 00:35:11,880
But these are I think, maybe nitpicky or at lesa

708
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,599
minute enough that they're not visually apparent. They're not like

709
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,199
grossly in your face, like the arm length of the

710
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,199
other apes, for example, like that that's just in your

711
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,280
face and you can't ignore it. But the sasquatch stuff

712
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,960
is close enough, and especially when it's walking on two

713
00:35:29,039 --> 00:35:31,840
legs versus the other apes, like it's just so clearly

714
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,079
apparent that like, oh, that's a human like build, you

715
00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:38,360
probably would notice a ten percent or so different in percentage,

716
00:35:38,519 --> 00:35:40,800
you know, of the arm length versus leg length. I

717
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,480
don't think that would stand out to you. So moving

718
00:35:43,519 --> 00:35:47,400
on with more statistical analyzes of physical description. He says,

719
00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:49,880
from the shoulders up there is less resemblance to the

720
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,320
average human. Shoulders are termed wide in more than ninety

721
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,400
percent of descriptions, seventy percent of necks are short, and

722
00:35:57,519 --> 00:36:02,159
twenty five percent have no neck. Flat faces, large flat noses,

723
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,840
sloped foreheads, and brow ridges are noted in nearly all

724
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,079
descriptions resulting from close observation.

725
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: That's definitely held up.

726
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have any issue with any of those things.

727
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,159
Speaker 3: That's pretty uh well accepted.

728
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as far as their general build, I think

729
00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:23,119
one of the most descriptive wordings that I've heard that

730
00:36:23,199 --> 00:36:25,760
really drove it home for me is that these things

731
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:31,159
are basically as tall and wide as a sheet of plywood. Yeah,

732
00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:32,880
you know, and that's kind of how I pictured it,

733
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:34,360
because you know, their heads are a little bit lower

734
00:36:34,559 --> 00:36:36,519
on the body, like the shoulders might maybe maybe the

735
00:36:36,559 --> 00:36:40,199
shoulders right higher higher rather, but maybe the heads are lower.

736
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,079
It doesn't matter. But the result is a piece of

737
00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:45,320
plywood is basically what you're looking at.

738
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, like a big rectangle. I've heard people

739
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,559
describe it like a refrigerator. You know, it's just a

740
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,400
big refrigerator standing.

741
00:36:53,159 --> 00:36:55,199
Speaker 3: There, Yeah, side by side.

742
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

743
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,199
Speaker 1: I love this next one because there's like this weird

744
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,719
little dig at oron Strassenberg in there. Even though they

745
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,480
were friends and colleagues, he says they are omnivorous. Gordon

746
00:37:05,519 --> 00:37:09,360
Strassenberg described such animals as herbivorous, but that cannot be supported.

747
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,000
Of sixty four reports that I had by nineteen seventy

748
00:37:13,039 --> 00:37:17,159
seven mentioning things apparently taken or carried for food, exactly

749
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,239
half involved some form of meat.

750
00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:23,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, again, and I think that's I think that's solid.

751
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,760
I would strongly argue against herbivorous in any sort of way,

752
00:37:27,079 --> 00:37:29,519
especially from the foraging sign that I have personally observed

753
00:37:29,559 --> 00:37:30,000
in the woods.

754
00:37:30,639 --> 00:37:35,119
Speaker 1: Ye always think it's interesting to follow people's journeys because

755
00:37:35,159 --> 00:37:37,760
I remember the points at which the reports of them

756
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,800
ambushing ungulates really started to captivate me and made me

757
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,639
think about what kind of evolutionary pressures, you know, the

758
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,880
need for that kind of protein, What those pressures would

759
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,280
result in, what adaptations, And thinking about, oh, well, if

760
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,840
there's a certain percentage of their lifestyle that's dependent on

761
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,079
ambush predation, And then going back and seeing sort of

762
00:37:57,199 --> 00:38:01,599
like Archie Buckley's journey with that, Keith Foster and Colorado's

763
00:38:01,639 --> 00:38:04,400
journey with that, and Matt Moneymakers, you know, and there

764
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,719
was a great researcher and witness who used to post

765
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,519
a lot on the Bigfoot forums that I got to know.

766
00:38:09,679 --> 00:38:12,159
I think he's still fairly anonymous. He had a lot

767
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,039
of great things to say along those same lines. So

768
00:38:14,079 --> 00:38:17,320
a lot of people sort of converge on that almost independently.

769
00:38:17,519 --> 00:38:20,800
So I do think, like that's inextricable that, you know,

770
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:23,719
you can't remove this sort of hunting behavior from these

771
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,360
things wherever they occur in North America. And I wondered

772
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,519
to what degree other people were sort of pushing this

773
00:38:29,679 --> 00:38:33,239
like gentle quote unquote like vegetarian so to speak at

774
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,159
that time. But I did think it was odd because

775
00:38:35,159 --> 00:38:39,280
I don't remember whether or not Strasenburg presented at that

776
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,000
conference or if he had a paper. He might have

777
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:43,320
had a paper in that book. I'd have to go

778
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,079
revisit the book. But when I was rereading this, I

779
00:38:46,199 --> 00:38:48,960
was like, that's kind of weird that he that included

780
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,440
that as a line in this paper. Hey, this one

781
00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:54,079
guy says this, but it can't be supported, you know.

782
00:38:55,159 --> 00:38:57,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, now you spoke to Gordon Strassenburg, didn't you.

783
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,679
Speaker 1: I did, Yeah, I mean it literally spoke to him

784
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,239
or at him. I'd been trying to track him down

785
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,280
and eventually found a phone number because I was looking

786
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,840
for some He self published a book I think called

787
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,119
Paranthropists Once in Future Brother was the name of the book,

788
00:39:14,639 --> 00:39:17,559
and he was arguing for Paranthropists as the you know,

789
00:39:17,679 --> 00:39:21,559
progenitor genius of the Sasquatch. And I couldn't find it anywhere.

790
00:39:21,639 --> 00:39:23,880
And then I found some other older papers that he

791
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,360
had written and submitted that were published in places, and

792
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,280
the sort of back and forth between him and Dmitriy

793
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,840
Bayanov and other researchers of that day. And I found

794
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,800
a phone number and called, and I think he was

795
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,800
in the kind of late stages of decline, and so

796
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,239
I spoke to his caretaker, and she was very nice,

797
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,119
and she was like, he can definitely hear you, and

798
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,400
he's definitely cognizant, and he can hear you and understand you.

799
00:39:45,519 --> 00:39:48,280
He just can't speak. So I just expressed a lot

800
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,000
of gratitude for the work that I was able to find,

801
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:53,840
and that I thought his ideas and thoughts were very interesting,

802
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,880
and you know, he's featured briefly in that Sasquatch Odyssey documentary.

803
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so anytime I ever seen his picture.

804
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: There's another talk of his that's on a like a

805
00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:07,119
two disc DVD set I got. Do you remember that?

806
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 2: It has like a brown cover.

807
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,639
Speaker 1: I think it's called Sasquatch Science or something like that,

808
00:40:10,679 --> 00:40:12,840
and it's from Sun conference and it's like a few

809
00:40:13,599 --> 00:40:16,159
It's like film with a camquarterer basically of a few

810
00:40:16,159 --> 00:40:19,039
people on stage. I think Meldram's presentation is in it,

811
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,519
and a few people. But there is a presentation from

812
00:40:21,599 --> 00:40:22,840
Gordon Strassenburg in there.

813
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 2: Hmm, No, I don't know that one.

814
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, in one of his old papers. I think it

815
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,159
might have been about Parantipis as a candidate, or making

816
00:40:31,199 --> 00:40:33,480
the argument that what is seen in the Patterson film

817
00:40:33,559 --> 00:40:36,400
is the descendant of Parantipus. But at the bottom it

818
00:40:36,519 --> 00:40:39,559
said Gordon Strassenberg. I think the address was nine to

819
00:40:39,639 --> 00:40:42,679
twelve Duvall Street in Key West, And you know, Emily

820
00:40:42,679 --> 00:40:44,960
and I go to Key West often and Duvall's the

821
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,519
sort of main strip there. So I went to nine

822
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:49,440
to twelve, if I'm remembering the number correct, I went

823
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,559
to the number on the paper, took a picture of

824
00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:52,639
it and sent it to you. I was like, Eh,

825
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,199
Gordon Strassenberg used to live here.

826
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: Oh, that's cool.

827
00:40:56,519 --> 00:40:58,159
Speaker 1: But I did get to speak to him, and you know,

828
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,800
he was sort of emoting, like, you know, he was

829
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,559
making sounds, but he just couldn't articulate speech. But his

830
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,519
caretaker was adamant, like, no, he can understand you, and

831
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,679
he seems very happy that you're calling and that you're

832
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:11,280
interested in this.

833
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 3: So that was nice.

834
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 2: Oh that is nice. Well, that's cool.

835
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,079
Speaker 1: So the next bullet point, he says they are largely nocturnal,

836
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,159
in spite of the fact that there are far more

837
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,960
human observers around in the daytime and that humans see

838
00:41:24,119 --> 00:41:27,119
very poorly at night. Almost half of the sightings reporting

839
00:41:27,199 --> 00:41:29,960
have been at night. The time when tracks were made

840
00:41:30,039 --> 00:41:33,159
is not generally known, but when it has been, almost

841
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,000
ninety percent have been made at night.

842
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. I

843
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,920
think they're a little bit more active at night, don't

844
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,599
Although I wouldn't write off daytime. I know a lot

845
00:41:43,679 --> 00:41:46,039
of people who see these things either at like in

846
00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:48,039
the middle of the day or you know, at the

847
00:41:48,159 --> 00:41:49,440
end of the day. A lot of people aren't up

848
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,280
at the beginning of the day, but that also happens

849
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:52,360
as well, So.

850
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would think, you know, the first person that

851
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,239
turned me on to the term cathemerl was Dennis Fole

852
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,360
when he was describing what they were observing and experiencing

853
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,519
there at the Rickson Project site in Kentucky. And I

854
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:09,559
think I think Ian Tattersall coined that term cathemerality basically

855
00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:13,840
describes periods of activity punctuated by periods of rest off

856
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,639
and on through a twenty four hour cycle. Activity like

857
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,639
up and down and up and down, regardless of day

858
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,960
or night. And there's many many animals that are now

859
00:42:21,079 --> 00:42:24,840
being like recategorized as cathemeral, especially with the advent of

860
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,039
things like game cameras, because you could imagine back in

861
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:31,400
the day when your wildlife biologists field observers, we were

862
00:42:31,519 --> 00:42:34,880
very limited technologically, and so we saw most things during

863
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,360
the day or you know, heard certain things at night

864
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,320
and thought they were restricted those times. And then you

865
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,920
put out game cameras that are functioning twenty four to

866
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,199
seven and you realize, like, no bears are active in

867
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:45,800
the heat in the middle of the day and in

868
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,800
the middle of the night, and you know, a lot

869
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,159
of other animals fall into that category. But yeah, I

870
00:42:51,199 --> 00:42:54,159
would guess that as it relates to humans, maybe they're

871
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,800
more active around humans at night than they would be

872
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,519
during the daytime, Like they would be bolder about approaching properties,

873
00:43:00,559 --> 00:43:04,079
are stepping onto properties, or coming closer to homes, et cetera,

874
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,920
crossing roads at night than they would be during the day.

875
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,280
Even if activity were equal during daylight hours and nighttime hours,

876
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:15,679
maybe activity close to humans is higher during nighttime hours.

877
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, they could very well choose it, just like like

878
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,599
thieves and the military, you know, choose those same nocturnal

879
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,119
cycles to do their dirty work.

880
00:43:24,159 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 3: You know.

881
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and

882
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,639
Bobo will be right back after these messages.

883
00:43:38,519 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: This one I definitely disagree with, and I think you

884
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,440
guys will too. He says they're not active in cold

885
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,440
weather everywhere except in Florida. There are only half as

886
00:43:47,519 --> 00:43:49,840
many reports in winter as in summer or fall, and

887
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,239
tracks are rarely found in snow. Less than nine percent

888
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,119
of the reports, including tracks and sidings mentioned snow. Oddly,

889
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,599
there are also few reports in spring and consist less

890
00:44:00,679 --> 00:44:03,760
in May than in April. At my most recent count out,

891
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,280
of eight hundred and four siding in track reports for

892
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,920
which a specific month was known, only thirty nine were

893
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,000
in May, compared to fifty three in April and fifty

894
00:44:13,159 --> 00:44:16,400
six in June. There were forty two in each of February.

895
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,760
In March, leaving out Florida reports, there were thirty six

896
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,920
in February, thirty seven in March, and thirty seven in May.

897
00:44:23,599 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 2: I think he'd have to look at the locals that

898
00:44:25,519 --> 00:44:28,280
he's specifically speaking about, you know, like where are they

899
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,719
popping up in these surroundings these shoulder months, like you

900
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,840
know Mity says there's more in April than in May,

901
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,800
for example, where are the locations and what is going

902
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,960
on there at the time. Because I don't think cold

903
00:44:40,559 --> 00:44:42,719
matters much to them. I mean, they lived in Alaska,

904
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,440
for God's sake, right, and then they lived there all

905
00:44:44,599 --> 00:44:48,119
year round doing whatever they do, so cold doesn't matter.

906
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,000
And also I'd like to point out that cold for

907
00:44:50,159 --> 00:44:52,880
us does not mean cold for them. I know money

908
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,400
Maker was very very focused in on where the warm

909
00:44:56,679 --> 00:44:58,559
currents were going, and I think they does play some

910
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,480
role in their behavi But I will also say that

911
00:45:02,639 --> 00:45:06,079
I think it's a safe bet that Matt Moneymaker's perception

912
00:45:06,199 --> 00:45:08,199
of comfort is not the same as a sasquatch.

913
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:09,039
Speaker 3: You know.

914
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: Well, I think you made the great point that cold

915
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,280
is different to them than it is to us, and

916
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,079
I think that's what you see reflected in the reports,

917
00:45:18,199 --> 00:45:20,000
is that there are a fewer of us out in

918
00:45:20,079 --> 00:45:25,519
the cold, especially if you know, Green was focused on BC, Oregon, Washington,

919
00:45:25,559 --> 00:45:29,000
northern California surrounding areas. It's like a lot of those

920
00:45:29,119 --> 00:45:33,119
roads are impassable and inaccessible in the winter. So there's

921
00:45:33,159 --> 00:45:37,519
so many factors that would keep people from seeing sasquatches,

922
00:45:37,599 --> 00:45:39,719
even if they were just as active during the winter

923
00:45:40,199 --> 00:45:42,519
as they are in other months. You know, there's a

924
00:45:42,559 --> 00:45:44,760
lot of things that would reduce the number of human

925
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,440
observers and therefore reduce the number of reports. So I'm

926
00:45:48,519 --> 00:45:51,440
kind of surprised that he didn't reference that here because

927
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,000
I think in other places he did have the caveat that, like, well,

928
00:45:55,039 --> 00:45:57,639
maybe this just has to do with reduced human activity,

929
00:45:58,119 --> 00:46:00,840
But in this paper he certainly doesn't have that. He says,

930
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,639
you know, quote, they are not active in cold weather,

931
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:05,480
which I think is erroneous.

932
00:46:06,119 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, winter's the best time for us, you know,

933
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,639
and probably because it gives us the best tracking, which is,

934
00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:16,440
you know, it could be considered a human factor. You

935
00:46:16,519 --> 00:46:19,480
know what idem is the best tracking, you know, But

936
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,840
winter is our best time. We find more tracks and

937
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,440
more movement and more recent tracks during the wintertime that

938
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,119
we do any other time of year. And maybe it's

939
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,440
because of just the tracking and I can see the footprints,

940
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,159
but maybe it's not. Maybe they are moving around at

941
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,800
least in those zones. But we find tracks all throughout

942
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,719
the summer as well, but at a different elevation. Is all. So,

943
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,039
I don't know. I disagree with this one. I think

944
00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:44,119
it's a human factor and it's as simple as that.

945
00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:48,559
Speaker 1: Same here and then the final bullet point in this section,

946
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,960
he says sasquatches make considerable use of water. I have

947
00:46:52,119 --> 00:46:54,960
six reports of tracks ending in bodies of deep water,

948
00:46:55,199 --> 00:46:57,840
five reports of sasquatch is swimming, and a dozen of

949
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,199
them standing or walking in bodies of water. In one

950
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,920
survey I did, of two hundred and eighty nine track reports,

951
00:47:04,039 --> 00:47:07,639
eighty three were beside water. Of twenty eight reports located

952
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,599
near towns in four states east of the Continental Divide,

953
00:47:11,079 --> 00:47:13,400
seventy one percent of the towns were right beside a

954
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,880
stream or lake large enough to be shown on an

955
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,320
ordinary road map. A sample consisting of all the towns

956
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,960
and two counties chosen at random in each of those

957
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,519
states indicated that on average, only fifty one percent of

958
00:47:25,639 --> 00:47:26,880
towns were beside water.

959
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because I think this is very reasonable, you know,

960
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:38,480
with some caveats and quibbling, quiffling. The sasquatch is unlike

961
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,360
I think the other ape species. And again, if I'm incorrect,

962
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,199
let me know Listeners or Matt or Bobbo or anybody.

963
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:46,719
I think that most of the other ape species don't

964
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,480
drink water. They get their liquid needs through the plants

965
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,119
they eat, like deer do for example, you know, or whatever.

966
00:47:55,199 --> 00:47:57,239
If there's like cupping of hands and drinking out of water,

967
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,559
it's got to be pretty minimal, I think, because I

968
00:47:59,639 --> 00:48:02,079
believe that's the case with the other ape species. But

969
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:06,079
sasquatches have been observed numerous times cupping their hands and

970
00:48:06,159 --> 00:48:08,960
drinking out of water sources like creeks and stuff. So

971
00:48:09,119 --> 00:48:11,639
I do think that a lot of their life is

972
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,559
cruising along waterways. But that's also a point of quibbling,

973
00:48:16,599 --> 00:48:19,400
I guess, because the tracks I find are almost never

974
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,599
in the actual creek bed. They're always ten, fifteen, twenty

975
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,199
fifty yards up from the creek bed, so they seem

976
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:31,159
to be associating themselves with the waterways for whatever reasons.

977
00:48:31,199 --> 00:48:33,639
Maybe it's edible plants, maybe it's other animals that are

978
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,480
taking a badge of the water or something I don't know,

979
00:48:36,159 --> 00:48:40,559
but almost never actually in the creek itself, So there's that.

980
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,519
So I don't know how to figure that one out,

981
00:48:43,079 --> 00:48:45,719
because they do seem to be near water, but I

982
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,639
wouldn't say they're exactly in the water from what I've

983
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,360
seen now. Of course, John Green has list these reports

984
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,320
of them standing in the water and stuff, so he

985
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,239
has data that I do not, But based on my

986
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:01,400
general observations, they're near water more than they're in water.

987
00:49:02,039 --> 00:49:03,800
Very few tracks actually in the creek bed.

988
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 1: So I think the other big difference between these apes

989
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,760
and other apes is that, at least as we see

990
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,519
it reflected in North American reports. I guess another in

991
00:49:13,679 --> 00:49:16,719
Asia as well, but mostly North America is just the

992
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,000
amount of activity it happens on the coast and like

993
00:49:20,199 --> 00:49:21,760
exploiting coastal resources.

994
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, lots of it, of course. I mean I've literally

995
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,639
been standing on the rim of the Pacific Ocean, fishing

996
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,039
for redtail surf perch in the Redwoods of northern California.

997
00:49:31,199 --> 00:49:32,920
The end, the waves are coming in, they are going

998
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:34,679
up to my knees and all that stuff fishing in

999
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,719
the water. To the left of me, fifty yards away,

1000
00:49:38,639 --> 00:49:42,639
some wave comes in and deposits a live crab on

1001
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,320
the beach, just boom, right there, a dungeon iss crab,

1002
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:46,760
the kind you would go to the store and buy

1003
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,400
for however much money a pound, right there on the beach.

1004
00:49:50,039 --> 00:49:54,000
It's like, yeah, the ocean is a never ending cornicopia

1005
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,039
of food items, whether it's the stuff that is constantly

1006
00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:00,360
deposited the sand, crabs are inches beneath your feet, help

1007
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:05,159
on the shores. It's just a buffet, a literal buffet,

1008
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,599
all the time. And certainly sasquatches are privuted at I mean,

1009
00:50:08,639 --> 00:50:10,840
every time I go to gold Bluff Beach in the

1010
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,679
Redwoods in California, I see elk right there in the sand.

1011
00:50:15,199 --> 00:50:16,960
So why wouldn't sasquatches be doing it too?

1012
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: And maybe if they did somehow distribute their population from

1013
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,559
whether they originated in Africa and had to move across

1014
00:50:24,639 --> 00:50:29,079
the levant into Eurasia and then across Asia into North America,

1015
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,599
or even if they just originated in Asia and moved

1016
00:50:31,639 --> 00:50:35,119
into North America, that at some point that evolutionary history

1017
00:50:35,159 --> 00:50:38,360
there was a significant amount of time that was predicated

1018
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,119
or at least required the acquisition of coastal resources. And

1019
00:50:42,199 --> 00:50:44,519
maybe that's the driving factor that made these things a

1020
00:50:44,599 --> 00:50:48,519
lot more aquatic friendly than the other extant apes.

1021
00:50:49,119 --> 00:50:50,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it had something to do with the

1022
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,480
flexibility of intelligence and being as smart as the other

1023
00:50:53,519 --> 00:50:57,440
ape species, if not a lot smarter. So they're adaptable,

1024
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,239
you know, as the adaptable survived. This's the ones who

1025
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,880
can adapt that go extinct, and sasquatches seem to be

1026
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,800
doing a pretty good job at stand alive. And it

1027
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,760
certainly has something to do with their intelligence level.

1028
00:51:10,679 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: So the next section sort of describes that all of

1029
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:17,679
those foregoing observations involve substantial numbers of reports, although the

1030
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,239
numbers vary from several hundred down to a few dozen.

1031
00:51:20,679 --> 00:51:24,199
There are, in addition, a number of significant observations that

1032
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,400
have only been reported a few times, the first of

1033
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,920
which is the only time sasquatches have been reported sleeping.

1034
00:51:31,039 --> 00:51:33,119
They were in the open, although it was snowing and

1035
00:51:33,159 --> 00:51:36,039
there were trees close by. And I have heard modern

1036
00:51:36,119 --> 00:51:38,719
reports to that effect. Well, there's a couple I think

1037
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,480
even from Kentucky that come to mind that Dennis related

1038
00:51:41,519 --> 00:51:41,719
to me.

1039
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 2: I've only heard one report of them sleeping personally. Yeah,

1040
00:51:46,039 --> 00:51:47,960
I spoke to a tribal cop on the Akima res

1041
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,920
who came upon this saying sleeping, and he got maybe

1042
00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:55,440
fifty or seventy five yards from it because he recognized

1043
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,039
what it was and beking Akima dude, he goes, oh

1044
00:51:58,079 --> 00:51:59,559
my god, I know exactly what that is. I'm not

1045
00:51:59,559 --> 00:52:01,440
going to mess with it. But he watched it, and

1046
00:52:01,559 --> 00:52:05,719
the thing was just sitting, just sitting on the slight slope,

1047
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,719
apparently sitting upright, not cross legged or anything, nothing like that,

1048
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,480
but like sitting upright, nonetheless sleeping, And he watched it

1049
00:52:14,599 --> 00:52:16,159
for a bit, and I guess and I'd have to

1050
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,920
go check out this report on it. Actually, I think

1051
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:20,840
he watched it for a bit and then he just

1052
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:22,400
left because, yeah, I'm not going to mess with that.

1053
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,079
So that's the only one that I have personally heard.

1054
00:52:26,599 --> 00:52:28,719
Should we mention the nests, because we don't know what

1055
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,519
nests are for at this point, but there are indications

1056
00:52:32,559 --> 00:52:36,119
that they rest in these nests, So if they are

1057
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,199
sleeping out in the open, maybe that's just the only

1058
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,559
time they've been observed, because these nests aren't exactly an

1059
00:52:42,599 --> 00:52:44,400
easily observable locations.

1060
00:52:45,079 --> 00:52:47,199
Speaker 1: No, I think that's a great point, because I'm sure

1061
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,679
they take those periods of rest if they're truly cathemral,

1062
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:52,519
you know, off and on throughout the day at night,

1063
00:52:52,639 --> 00:52:56,400
and they're going to do that in pretty safe, defensible places,

1064
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,960
and maybe occasionally in the open if the open provide

1065
00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:00,519
some kind.

1066
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,159
Speaker 3: Of safe place to go.

1067
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 1: Back to Greens quote, he said something about it was

1068
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,159
snowing and there were trees close by. One of the

1069
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,360
things that Dennis had related to me, if I'm remembering

1070
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,320
it correctly, was after I think kind of a big

1071
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:16,639
snowstorm had rolled through like an overnighter, finding a place

1072
00:53:16,679 --> 00:53:19,039
in the morning where all the snow had been brushed

1073
00:53:19,079 --> 00:53:22,639
away down to just the bare earth underneath, and there

1074
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:26,000
was this big spot where something had just laid as

1075
00:53:26,079 --> 00:53:28,679
if like out kind of in the semi open, but

1076
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,079
just laid there on the ground through a whole snowstorm.

1077
00:53:31,079 --> 00:53:34,039
And then after it stopped snowing, got up and walked away,

1078
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,400
which you think, man, that's a pretty brutal lifestyle if

1079
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,639
you have to do that occasionally. So that's the big

1080
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,599
one that comes to mind. But yeah, if they're usually

1081
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,760
sleeping in thick vegetation, you know, like Shane described, like

1082
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:48,480
it's like the walls of a house and you have

1083
00:53:48,559 --> 00:53:50,519
to step into the house and find the right room

1084
00:53:50,639 --> 00:53:53,119
to stumble on the nest, then yeah, you wouldn't expect

1085
00:53:53,159 --> 00:53:55,039
many people to observe that now.

1086
00:53:55,079 --> 00:53:59,079
Speaker 2: And there's a couple of Blue Mountain nests that there's

1087
00:53:59,159 --> 00:54:02,199
photographs something, but not a written description or anything like that,

1088
00:54:02,639 --> 00:54:06,039
and the photograph indicator and actually Krantz actually wrote a

1089
00:54:06,079 --> 00:54:08,400
little bit about it, but he didn't have much information.

1090
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,320
In his book The Big of Sasquatch Evidence, he comments

1091
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,079
at a place where the toll Gate track was recovered

1092
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,400
out of Tollgate Organ nearby there was a place in

1093
00:54:19,519 --> 00:54:22,639
the meadow where it looked like something about eight feet

1094
00:54:22,639 --> 00:54:24,519
tall had laid down and rolled back and forth a

1095
00:54:24,559 --> 00:54:27,320
few times or whatever. And there's I think I believe

1096
00:54:27,519 --> 00:54:29,760
there are pictures of that in the Freeman photo album.

1097
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,960
There's certainly pictures of something that matches that description, but

1098
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,480
we don't have dates and you know, that's not one

1099
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,639
of the puzzle pieces I've been able to confidently piece

1100
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:40,679
back into the puzzle yet, But that's what I think

1101
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,639
is represented in those photographs. But and I guess a meadow,

1102
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:47,119
you know, like tall grass, like three or four foot

1103
00:54:47,119 --> 00:54:50,599
tall grass, that's plenty obscured, you know, but it is

1104
00:54:50,679 --> 00:54:52,599
also in the open. So which way do you want

1105
00:54:52,639 --> 00:54:56,800
to go with it? Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and

1106
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,599
Beyond with Cliff and Bogo will be right back after

1107
00:54:59,639 --> 00:55:00,400
these met sages.

1108
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 1: This next bullet point, I think you see a little

1109
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:11,639
bit of his West Coast sort of bias shining through.

1110
00:55:12,199 --> 00:55:15,679
He says, I have six reports of running Sasquatches being

1111
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:16,320
clocked by.

1112
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:17,079
Speaker 3: People in cars.

1113
00:55:17,519 --> 00:55:21,280
Speaker 1: Speeds reported were thirty five, forty five, fifty to sixty,

1114
00:55:21,639 --> 00:55:25,360
seventy and eighty miles per hour. None of these reports

1115
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,920
were from west of the Continental Divide, and I have

1116
00:55:28,039 --> 00:55:31,000
not talked to any of the informants, So he's kind

1117
00:55:31,039 --> 00:55:33,960
of implying that, like, only crazy people in the east

1118
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,000
claim that their sasquatch is running seventy and eighty miles

1119
00:55:38,039 --> 00:55:38,360
an hour.

1120
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,159
Speaker 3: You never know. I mean, I've talked to plenty people

1121
00:55:41,159 --> 00:55:43,960
have seen them, running like forty five plus.

1122
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,599
Speaker 1: Isn't there a famous like multi witness siding from one

1123
00:55:47,639 --> 00:55:50,519
of the interstates in Washington where like multiple cars saw

1124
00:55:50,559 --> 00:55:52,440
it and it and it ran fairly quickly.

1125
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,559
Speaker 3: Was it like was it on the coming through the Gorge?

1126
00:55:55,639 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 2: Right?

1127
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 3: I mean coming down Columbia right? I think it was

1128
00:55:58,079 --> 00:55:58,440
right there.

1129
00:55:59,119 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 2: There are reports sasquatches on the eighty four and the

1130
00:56:02,039 --> 00:56:04,119
general vicinity of Multnomah Falls.

1131
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,639
Speaker 1: I just remember from either the late nineties or early

1132
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,639
two thousands, there was a report of multiple motorists that

1133
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,360
saw a sasquatch. I can't remember his daytime or nighttime,

1134
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:17,000
but you know, there were multiple people unconnected to each

1135
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,159
other except for they were all in traffic around the

1136
00:56:19,199 --> 00:56:21,119
same time and saw this thing and it was running,

1137
00:56:21,679 --> 00:56:23,960
you know, like over forty miles an hour or something

1138
00:56:24,039 --> 00:56:25,639
like that, if I'm remembering correctly.

1139
00:56:26,039 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, I'd love for a bunch of like

1140
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,559
interviews on other podcasts where people talk about getting chased

1141
00:56:31,599 --> 00:56:34,159
and like this. So they didn't they didn't really leave

1142
00:56:34,159 --> 00:56:36,559
it behind until they got going like fifty plus and

1143
00:56:36,639 --> 00:56:38,119
then they pulled away.

1144
00:56:39,079 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: So maybe that one hasn't changed too much, because again,

1145
00:56:41,519 --> 00:56:43,920
this is the category of reports that he says that

1146
00:56:44,039 --> 00:56:47,039
are significant but have only been reported a few times.

1147
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:51,400
This one, I think we would definitely amplify nowadays, he says,

1148
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,440
I have six reports of sasquatches shaking or hitting vehicles,

1149
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,679
five of them jumping on vehicles, and five of them

1150
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,880
pushing at or damage buildings. I think that number is

1151
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:02,840
going way up.

1152
00:57:03,079 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 3: It's way up.

1153
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, particularly the building's part, I would imagine. Oh yeah,

1154
00:57:09,639 --> 00:57:11,760
I don't really hear reports of them like lifting up

1155
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:13,480
cars and all that kind of stuff like they did

1156
00:57:13,519 --> 00:57:15,679
back in the seventies very often. I don't know if

1157
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,440
that was a horror movie trope that got picked up

1158
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,320
by witnesses who were scared or what.

1159
00:57:21,559 --> 00:57:24,519
Speaker 1: But definitely like the shaking of vehicles, oh for sure,

1160
00:57:24,679 --> 00:57:27,159
you know, because there's so many great observations that people

1161
00:57:27,199 --> 00:57:29,639
have had from part vehicles, and oftentimes they are like

1162
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:32,800
probing or testing the vehicle and pushing it or something

1163
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,679
like that. But to your point, yeah, the quote pushing

1164
00:57:35,719 --> 00:57:39,719
at or damaging buildings, that's that's a lot more. That's

1165
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,280
a lot higher than kind of surprising that at that

1166
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,880
time Green said he only had five reports of that

1167
00:57:45,039 --> 00:57:50,119
nature in seventy eight, when this paper was presented. He says,

1168
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,119
I have eight reports of sasquatches seen to throw things

1169
00:57:53,159 --> 00:57:56,400
at people without hitting anyone, and seventeen of them chasing

1170
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,960
people without catching anyone. Five people have reported being rush

1171
00:58:00,199 --> 00:58:02,920
in what appeared to be a bluffing action. Reports of

1172
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,280
sasquatches looking in the windows of houses and even vehicles

1173
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,159
are fairly common, but it's far more usual for a

1174
00:58:09,199 --> 00:58:12,280
sasquatch encountering a human to leave, often hurriedly.

1175
00:58:13,039 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I agree with all that. It's that

1176
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,960
I'm a little surprised that the numbers are so low,

1177
00:58:17,679 --> 00:58:21,000
like eight reports of things being thrown. Of course, then again,

1178
00:58:21,079 --> 00:58:25,079
maybe that's just observations of the sasquatch throwing, which is

1179
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,320
entirely different than having things thrown at you in the

1180
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,920
woods and thinking or knowing or whatever that a sasquatch

1181
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,480
is responsible. Those are entirely dehoot different things, of course,

1182
00:58:35,559 --> 00:58:35,679
you know.

1183
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:37,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, He says.

1184
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 1: Three people have reported being grabbed at while in their vehicles,

1185
00:58:40,519 --> 00:58:43,280
and four have reported being picked up and dropped, but

1186
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,519
none have been much hurt. All reports of people being

1187
00:58:46,599 --> 00:58:49,639
killed by sasquatches, of which I have seven have been

1188
00:58:50,039 --> 00:58:53,800
very indirect or very old, usually both. There are perhaps

1189
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:57,000
a dozen reports of sasquatches being seen to kill animals,

1190
00:58:57,039 --> 00:58:59,360
but I have never been able to talk to any eyewitness.

1191
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:02,920
Kind of surprises so high, actually, because I I have

1192
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:08,760
reports of two people being picked up by sasquatches that

1193
00:59:09,079 --> 00:59:12,400
I've I've spoken to directly, well, one for sure, and

1194
00:59:12,559 --> 00:59:14,440
I think there's another one I can't remember who that is,

1195
00:59:15,119 --> 00:59:18,559
one that I remember speaking to, and another who I

1196
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:21,159
can't remember the details of it. I feel like I have,

1197
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,039
but I'm so I'm surprised that he has so many

1198
00:59:24,079 --> 00:59:25,079
at such an early date.

1199
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:29,079
Speaker 3: And eli from small town monsters. He got grabbed by

1200
00:59:29,159 --> 00:59:32,599
one for that a few times. I reached it through

1201
00:59:32,639 --> 00:59:36,199
a tent and grabbing their leg and just squeezing it. Yank.

1202
00:59:37,239 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 2: You have a very but no one that I'm aware of,

1203
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:44,599
at least who has had that happen has seen the sasquatch.

1204
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:47,719
And I'm not saying a bigfoot didn't do it, but

1205
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,360
it's hard to say one did, even though like you

1206
00:59:50,519 --> 00:59:52,400
kind of run out of options like bears don't do that,

1207
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,559
and deer don't do that and stuff. But at the

1208
00:59:54,599 --> 00:59:58,039
same time, to be very grounded in the claim, you

1209
00:59:58,119 --> 00:59:59,079
do have to acknowledge that.

1210
01:00:00,199 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 1: I'm surprised he only had quote perhaps a dozen reports

1211
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,199
of sasquatches being seen to kill animals, and that he

1212
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,400
hadn't been able to talk to those eyewitnesses, because you know,

1213
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,679
I've talked to several I know both of you guys have,

1214
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,079
And it wasn't too long afterwards that Jim Huckin, you know,

1215
01:00:15,119 --> 01:00:18,719
when he started publishing those field reports, he would include observations,

1216
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,199
And there's two of them that I used in my

1217
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:24,480
presentation from last year. One was from the Malala River

1218
01:00:24,599 --> 01:00:27,679
drainage and one was from Montana, from two different hunters

1219
01:00:27,719 --> 01:00:30,679
that he spoke to who watched a sasquatch ambush and

1220
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:34,000
kill deer. In both of those cases, well one might

1221
01:00:34,039 --> 01:00:35,280
have been an elk who want to do I think

1222
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:37,800
they were both deer, but in any case, so there's

1223
01:00:38,159 --> 01:00:39,760
plenty of that to go around. But I guess at

1224
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:41,599
this point he only had a dozen reports and had

1225
01:00:41,639 --> 01:00:44,639
not spoken directly to anyone who'd actually claimed to see it.

1226
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,159
So that's certainly gone up a lot since then.

1227
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, yeah.

1228
01:00:50,079 --> 01:00:54,039
Speaker 1: Reports specifically identifying females and young are very rare. I

1229
01:00:54,119 --> 01:00:57,719
have only nine substantial and specific descriptions of females and

1230
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:01,239
only three of young animals seen with adults. I think

1231
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:02,519
that so holds pretty true.

1232
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 2: It's rarer, but it's not unheard of, and I would

1233
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,880
imagine that well, clearly only three of young animals seen

1234
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:13,159
with adults. That's gone up dramatically. John Green was early

1235
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,599
on saying this because the numbers are have just skyrocketed.

1236
01:01:16,639 --> 01:01:19,079
I mean, there's lots and lots and lots of observations

1237
01:01:19,079 --> 01:01:23,159
of sasquatches with a younger one in toe, maybe not

1238
01:01:23,239 --> 01:01:25,360
a three or four footer, but sometimes a five footer

1239
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:27,840
with a larger six or seven footer or something. But

1240
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:31,599
there's lots of them who have been seen with another

1241
01:01:31,679 --> 01:01:34,639
one of two different sizes. So I think that that's

1242
01:01:34,639 --> 01:01:37,039
a little outdated, but otherwise pretty good.

1243
01:01:37,639 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1244
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 1: I just I think that reports specifically identifying females and

1245
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:43,760
young are very rare because I was trying to think

1246
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,360
about all the reports that have taken in North Georgia,

1247
01:01:47,039 --> 01:01:49,559
like if you were trying to identify core areas, for example,

1248
01:01:49,599 --> 01:01:52,519
and you wanted to have clear evidence like well, there

1249
01:01:52,599 --> 01:01:55,599
was definitely female seen around here, and without going back

1250
01:01:55,639 --> 01:01:58,840
through all the notes, just going from memory and certain

1251
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,280
things online like I I can't think of anywhere someone

1252
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,920
described like clearly seeing mammary glands. Now there are some

1253
01:02:05,079 --> 01:02:08,239
of like smaller individual's juveniles, but so yeah, like the

1254
01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:11,639
female sidings are still pretty rare comparatively.

1255
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 2: Well, And I am of the opinion this, I this

1256
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:18,440
is pure speculation. I don't think that that there their

1257
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:21,360
boobs are big all the time. I really don't. I mean,

1258
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:25,519
I think that females are more accurately identified by size

1259
01:02:26,239 --> 01:02:31,159
my height, for example, and yeah, and then perhaps shaped too. Yeah,

1260
01:02:31,719 --> 01:02:33,360
but I don't. I don't think their memory glands are

1261
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:35,039
always engorged, like and.

1262
01:02:37,239 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 3: Are the ones that stay let's stay like that all

1263
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,400
the other species are they're not. If they're not black

1264
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:45,119
hitting any shrink back up and go up in the

1265
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:49,039
chess like, you can't really tell that they have them. Yeah.

1266
01:02:49,199 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 2: So if you don't have a sasquatch with a sizeable rack, like,

1267
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:53,000
how are you supposed to know?

1268
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be the only visual queue.

1269
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 2: If the breasts are not engorged, and they're fairly flat

1270
01:03:01,039 --> 01:03:05,000
chested or flasted or whatever for most of the year,

1271
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,559
or most for several years in a row, perhaps how

1272
01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:10,480
are we supposed to know? And we don't know if

1273
01:03:10,519 --> 01:03:13,400
that's the case of sasquatches, and I would I'm not

1274
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:15,760
going to argue that that's the case, but I would

1275
01:03:16,039 --> 01:03:19,239
argue that we should at least keep that possibility in mind.

1276
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:22,920
We just don't really know enough about these things yet

1277
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,679
to say much about but we have a podcast about it,

1278
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:28,239
so we have to. So.

1279
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 1: The last observation that he offers here in the category

1280
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,199
things that that are significant but only been reported a

1281
01:03:34,239 --> 01:03:37,679
few times, he says, one observer has reported two incidents

1282
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:40,000
in which it seemed that a sasquatch did not have

1283
01:03:40,199 --> 01:03:42,760
an opposable thumb, or at least did not use it

1284
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,800
in that way. I have no specific report of a

1285
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:47,280
sasquatch using the thumb.

1286
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,559
Speaker 3: In opposition, a lot of people say that when they've

1287
01:03:50,599 --> 01:03:54,440
found where they broke trees and stuff, or they saw them,

1288
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:58,880
you know, everything ground and breaking something, they all five

1289
01:03:59,079 --> 01:04:01,719
fingers are on this same side of the branch a

1290
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:02,800
lot of usually.

1291
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,039
Speaker 2: But I also have reports that show that they're on

1292
01:04:06,119 --> 01:04:10,519
opposite sides, which shows a remarkable versatility in the thumb.

1293
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:14,159
And that's also, in my opinion, substantiated very well by

1294
01:04:14,199 --> 01:04:17,400
the handprint evidence. I think that it's an option for them,

1295
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:19,880
like they if you look at your thumb, like you

1296
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:22,079
spread your fingers out as wide as possible right in

1297
01:04:22,159 --> 01:04:25,559
front of you right now, their hand looks similar. The

1298
01:04:25,719 --> 01:04:28,199
thumb doesn't bend the same way. Like if you curl

1299
01:04:28,239 --> 01:04:30,760
your thumb, it kind of goes across the palm at

1300
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:33,360
say forty five degree angle from the plane of the palm.

1301
01:04:33,679 --> 01:04:36,519
You know, very approximately. Everybody's a little bit different. Theirs

1302
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:38,599
would go more directly in the ground, as if they

1303
01:04:39,119 --> 01:04:42,880
lifted the butt of their palm up that and therefore,

1304
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,599
if you flexed the one joint in your thumb, it

1305
01:04:45,599 --> 01:04:48,199
would go more directly in the ground. That's how there's

1306
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:52,119
roles more so more of the time than ours. But

1307
01:04:52,559 --> 01:04:55,599
that gives them flexibility. I do have reports of them

1308
01:04:56,159 --> 01:04:59,760
grabbing things with all five fingers all on the same

1309
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:01,880
s side of the tree or whatever, wrapping around the

1310
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:04,559
same direction. But I also have reports of them grabbing

1311
01:05:04,599 --> 01:05:07,480
it in a more or less human fashion, which does

1312
01:05:07,559 --> 01:05:10,519
not mean they have a more or less human thumb anatomy.

1313
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,920
That just means that at that particular point, at that

1314
01:05:14,039 --> 01:05:17,760
particular with that particular grasp, they did it that way.

1315
01:05:18,159 --> 01:05:22,119
But it just shows a versatility one author actually who

1316
01:05:22,159 --> 01:05:24,239
wrote a book, not a bad book in general, but

1317
01:05:24,519 --> 01:05:26,480
their argument about that thumb is that there's no way

1318
01:05:26,519 --> 01:05:28,400
it could be done because the thumb, you know, blah

1319
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:32,639
blah blah, wouldn't function well and it would serve as

1320
01:05:32,639 --> 01:05:34,840
a hindrance and all this other stuff. It was the

1321
01:05:35,039 --> 01:05:39,159
thinking of that author that was inflexible, not the usage

1322
01:05:39,159 --> 01:05:42,039
of the thumb, because the thumb can move back and forth,

1323
01:05:42,159 --> 01:05:45,360
just like your pointer finger can wiggle back and forth

1324
01:05:45,519 --> 01:05:48,000
along the same plane pretty dramatically, you know, up to

1325
01:05:48,119 --> 01:05:50,280
like thirty or forty degrees or more. I think the

1326
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:53,039
thumb can do it probably forty five or even maybe

1327
01:05:53,119 --> 01:05:56,000
sixty degrees on a sasquatch, but always bending in that

1328
01:05:56,079 --> 01:06:01,119
same plane. So the thumb is very very interesting difference,

1329
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:03,800
I guess, in between sasquatches and humans and how they

1330
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:04,119
use it.

1331
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 1: That is the end of that section of the paper,

1332
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:08,639
and there's a couple of other sections that maybe we

1333
01:06:08,679 --> 01:06:10,440
could talk about. On the member section. There's a really

1334
01:06:10,519 --> 01:06:12,639
interesting one where he says, like, here's a number of

1335
01:06:12,719 --> 01:06:16,039
things about sasquatches that seem to me to be significant

1336
01:06:16,079 --> 01:06:18,719
because they have never been reported. So I think that'd

1337
01:06:18,719 --> 01:06:20,079
be fun to go through to see if there are

1338
01:06:20,159 --> 01:06:22,599
any reports that you guys or any of us have

1339
01:06:22,719 --> 01:06:25,639
heard they contradict that, and then there's a bit of

1340
01:06:25,679 --> 01:06:29,719
like closing thoughts, you know, a few different key points

1341
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:30,320
that emerge.

1342
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:31,559
Speaker 3: So maybe we can do that on the.

1343
01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 1: Member section and then get to some of the overflow

1344
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:36,199
Q and A questions from the pigeons as well.

1345
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:37,559
Speaker 2: Sounds good to me.

1346
01:06:38,519 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, well yeah, let's go see the pige

1347
01:06:42,079 --> 01:06:46,400
well run Patreon. Okay, fellos, Well, thanks for tuning in listening.

1348
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:50,559
We appreciate it. Hit hit, share, and until next week,

1349
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:51,880
y'all keep it squatchy.

1350
01:06:57,159 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot End Beyond.

1351
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,079
If you liked what you heard, please rate and review

1352
01:07:03,199 --> 01:07:06,440
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1353
01:07:06,519 --> 01:07:09,719
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1354
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:13,280
at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on

1355
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:17,039
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1356
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,440
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1357
01:07:20,719 --> 01:07:22,400
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