WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Influencers. We both love to hate and sometimes hate to

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<v Speaker 1>love them. But when we hear the word, we tend

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<v Speaker 1>to think of people with their smartphones and done up

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<v Speaker 1>good looks on Instagram and social media, making their money

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<v Speaker 1>from a long line of sponsorships. But all the way

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<v Speaker 1>back in eighteen forty one, a good old fashioned case

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<v Speaker 1>of viral marketing took an unexpected turn and ended in tragedy.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the mysterious Case of Mary Rogers, also known

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<v Speaker 1>as the Cigar Girl. My name's Ben and.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Nicole and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a

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<v Speaker 2>true crime podcast. Warning the following podcasts and material intended

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<v Speaker 2>for mature audience listener.

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<v Speaker 1>I honestly hate the word influencer. I think there's a

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<v Speaker 1>fine line between like an influencer and a creator.

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<v Speaker 2>Honestly, since influencer became a thing, you always hated that term.

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<v Speaker 1>I have because there's influencer gets a bad rap and

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<v Speaker 1>it can yeah, draws over into the creator world, because

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<v Speaker 1>people who are creators are like, yeah, I'm just creating

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<v Speaker 1>cool shit for the fact that I love doing it

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<v Speaker 1>and I had a lot of people in my corner

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<v Speaker 1>who support me, And I mean, yeah, I can pop

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<v Speaker 1>up ads there and that's kind of how how I

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<v Speaker 1>build revenue. But then influencers are just like, yeah, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>the boss, I'm the shit by the sponsored ads that

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<v Speaker 1>I have, and that's about it.

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<v Speaker 2>I do think when you're like a creator first and

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<v Speaker 2>then influencer kind of you're usually like way more successful.

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<v Speaker 1>I think so. And it's not to say that all

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<v Speaker 1>influencers are bad or all creators are bad or all

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<v Speaker 1>creators are good or whatever. There's bad and good in

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<v Speaker 1>both both worlds. Yeah, but influencers tend to get the

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<v Speaker 1>bad rap.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. Well, sometimes I think they're just they have

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<v Speaker 2>more or people think they have more influence than they

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<v Speaker 2>actually do. Because say, fifty thousand Instagram followers, is it

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<v Speaker 2>really like if you post something, it's not necessarily going

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<v Speaker 2>to just make that other person blow up.

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<v Speaker 1>No at all, Definitely not. And I learned that a

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<v Speaker 1>few years ago, because I've talked about this before. I

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<v Speaker 1>have well over I think one hundred and eighty thousand

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<v Speaker 1>followers on TikTok. I haven't posted in like over a

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<v Speaker 1>year if that even more. But yeah, you don't have influence.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we almost need to have way more nowadays or

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<v Speaker 2>something I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you have to have millions, millions, millions, millions, because

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<v Speaker 1>everyone out there is becoming influencers, creators and it's a

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<v Speaker 1>very large ocean. But that's not even my goal anyways.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think it's yours either.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yours was just for fun. Yeah, it's just for fun.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to do this sort of stuff because I

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<v Speaker 1>love it. And what's really awesome is we have incredible

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<v Speaker 1>people in our corner supporting this show, helping us.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been a crazy week. I can't believe it. We had.

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<v Speaker 2>Is this record breaking?

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<v Speaker 1>I think so it could be.

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<v Speaker 2>We had twelve patrons sign up this week.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so holy shit. We have twelve individuals this week

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<v Speaker 1>to thank. Usually we have like anywhere from like two

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<v Speaker 1>maybe to five every week sign up, but twelve this week.

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<v Speaker 2>So amazing, so much. Yeah, it kind of just like

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, we get notifications and it just kind

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<v Speaker 2>of made her day every time.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a kidding. So here we go, long list

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<v Speaker 1>of patrons to thank, do it. So I'm sorry if

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<v Speaker 1>I get your name wrong. We're always sorry. We're terrible

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<v Speaker 1>with that, but we do our best.

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<v Speaker 2>It's our charm.

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<v Speaker 1>It is right it's the Canadian charm. We'll just say

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<v Speaker 1>sorry at the end and it's all good. Right. So

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<v Speaker 1>first off, we have Lauren Maguire, Danny Bagbie, Lisa Johnson,

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<v Speaker 1>Demi Conway, Gris shout out to Demi local friend of ours,

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<v Speaker 1>Maddy Horton, Cheryl Means, Gail Galliado, Mandy Rolloffs, Marissa Geese,

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<v Speaker 1>Diana hurd Rio, and finally Mishma Lou Bobby I hope

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<v Speaker 1>I said your name right, Mishma.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a good list of awesome people.

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<v Speaker 1>That is incredible people, So thank you so much for

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<v Speaker 1>your support. That that means the world to us, it

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<v Speaker 1>really does. And they also have an exclusive episode dropping

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<v Speaker 1>today as well overrun.

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<v Speaker 2>Patreon yep, last day of the month. There's always an

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<v Speaker 2>exclusive episode just for.

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<v Speaker 1>Those patrons exactly. But if you do sign up, we

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<v Speaker 1>just want to let you know, make sure you sign

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<v Speaker 1>up for that all access.

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<v Speaker 2>That's how you get the free episode, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Our lord's here. That's just behind the scenes content. The

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<v Speaker 1>all Access gets that ex episode as well, but you

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<v Speaker 1>still get some cool stuff with the other Tier two.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't get us wrong. Yeah, we have some other big news.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I know what it is, ready, what is it?

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<v Speaker 1>Drum roll?

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<v Speaker 2>Our second year anniversary is coming.

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<v Speaker 1>Up in like a week. Yeah, February eighth is our

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<v Speaker 1>two year podcast anniversary.

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<v Speaker 2>We made it, I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>Technically not yet. Technically not yet.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, I feel like that's a huge accompliment. Accomplishment because

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of podcasts don't make it to two years.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I think, like I looked it up before, and

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<v Speaker 1>like the average podcast makes it. I think somewhere between.

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<v Speaker 2>Like seven or eight seven or eight episodes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, it could have increased in the last year

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<v Speaker 1>or so, maybe even up to ten or twelve, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's definitely not in the hundreds, and we are well

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<v Speaker 1>on our way to reaching much more.

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<v Speaker 2>Than just one hundred in my books.

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<v Speaker 1>We made it fair enough. I thought you meant we

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<v Speaker 1>made it to our second anniversary.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, Like I just think that's a huge accomplish,

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<v Speaker 2>is what I know. But we made it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you mean we made a tour second anniversary and

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<v Speaker 1>well you're like.

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<v Speaker 2>No, we didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was like, wow, well it's a weird I

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<v Speaker 1>was thinking, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, way to be positive.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got a little bit of whiskey. I got to

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<v Speaker 1>finish off here still before I dive into my beer.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually, my goodness, look at you over there, double fist,

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<v Speaker 2>and you were drinking the scotch whiskey. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>which what it is, but you were drinking that for

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<v Speaker 2>the pre show.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, just a n f y. I all scotch is whiskey,

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<v Speaker 1>but not all whiskey is scotch.

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<v Speaker 2>Holy shit? Okay, cool? Cool? Yes, So are we diving in?

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<v Speaker 1>We're diving in.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm kind of excited for this one, actually than I am.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a very interesting one. And yeah, our our individual

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking to to talking about there we go to

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<v Speaker 1>talking about our individual we're talking about is Mary Rogers bud.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, is this kind of a well known case or not?

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<v Speaker 1>Uh? I don't think it's like well known, But I

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't say it's like not known. That's kind of like

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<v Speaker 1>one of those under the radar ones. But some people

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<v Speaker 1>do know about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, okay, right on.

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<v Speaker 1>So Mary Rogers, also known as a cigar Girl, was

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<v Speaker 1>very much so an eighteen hundred 's influencer. I kind

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<v Speaker 1>of love that, actually, but she wasn't like that typical

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<v Speaker 1>influencer that we think of that I was describing with

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<v Speaker 1>that like self righteous attitude that I'm so great. She

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<v Speaker 1>was very much, so reserved, very nice, and we'll get

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<v Speaker 1>into that though. Okay, But Mary was born in New

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<v Speaker 1>York in eighteen twenty awesome. Her father had died when

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<v Speaker 1>Mary was only five years old. Not awesome, and that

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<v Speaker 1>left her and her mother in a very tricky position. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>her mother's name was Phoebe, and she was doing the

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<v Speaker 1>best as she could to make sure she could look

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<v Speaker 1>after her daughter. She had also had a previous marriage,

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<v Speaker 1>so she had a divorce and then lost her second husband,

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<v Speaker 1>and she had some children for her first marriage, but

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't find any information on those kids, so, as

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<v Speaker 1>far as I know, we're just talking about Mary and

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<v Speaker 1>Phoebe here. But she was doing the best she could

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<v Speaker 1>look do to look after Mary, and she decided one

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<v Speaker 1>of the best things she could do to make sure

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<v Speaker 1>that she was home and could provide was start a

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<v Speaker 1>boarding house. So that's exactly what she did. She started

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<v Speaker 1>a boarding house on Nasu Street, where she lived, worked

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<v Speaker 1>and raised Mary.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, what exactly is a boarding house? Is that just

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<v Speaker 2>somewhere that people kind of rent, yes, ance or a

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<v Speaker 2>room or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you rent a room, sort of thing. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like you live in this person's house, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>cook and clean for you or whatever, and provide you

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<v Speaker 1>a room for a fee. Oh okay, okay, it's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like a an inn, like a medieval inn, you think, right,

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<v Speaker 1>except a little bit more permanent solution. It's not like

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<v Speaker 1>you go there for a night or two, which I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sure you could could if you need to.

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<v Speaker 2>But they're probably looking for more, so long.

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<v Speaker 1>Term renters exactly. Now, long term might mean a month

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<v Speaker 1>to a year, I don't no, but it's definitely not

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<v Speaker 1>like by the night. Okay. Now, as Mary grew up,

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<v Speaker 1>she began entering an age where she could start helping

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<v Speaker 1>her mother, and she was working around the boarding house

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<v Speaker 1>and also put more into the public eye by working

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<v Speaker 1>at the boarding house. People would come in and see

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<v Speaker 1>Phoebe and her daughter. Now, this is something that I

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<v Speaker 1>think pretty much everyone today could think of as most

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<v Speaker 1>both a blessing and a curse being in the public eye. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>So Mary didn't actively go looking for the limelight, but

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<v Speaker 1>being a little more in the public eye, like I mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>it sure managed to find her. She became known around

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<v Speaker 1>town for her immaculate beauty.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay.

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<v Speaker 1>She was tall, had soft features, thick black hair, and

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<v Speaker 1>whenever she went anywhere, men seemed to follow her.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I was like, what exactly was how is

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<v Speaker 2>she attracting people here?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? She she was very beautiful and she was a very

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<v Speaker 1>kind individual, and it began attracting a lot of attention.

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<v Speaker 2>Was anything said about like if her mom was a

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<v Speaker 2>beauty as well?

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<v Speaker 1>Not that I could see.

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<v Speaker 2>No, okay, no.

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<v Speaker 1>So, when Mary was only twenty years old, a man

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<v Speaker 1>by the name of John Anderson, was the owner of

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<v Speaker 1>a large cigar shop on Broadway, offered Mary something that

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<v Speaker 1>would quite literally change her life. John wanted Mary to

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<v Speaker 1>come and work for him, and it would be pretty

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<v Speaker 1>easy work too. All Mary would have to do was

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<v Speaker 1>stand behind a counter and sell cigars to men who

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<v Speaker 1>came into the cigar shop. Okay, now, I do want

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<v Speaker 1>to preface this. I don't want to get the wrong

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<v Speaker 1>idea that I'm saying that retail work isn't very hard,

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<v Speaker 1>Like all you do is stand behind a counter and

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<v Speaker 1>sell shit. That's not what I'm saying. Trust me.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I never thought that.

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<v Speaker 1>But okay, I have all the respect in the world

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<v Speaker 1>for retail workers. Trust me on that mountain, I know you.

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<v Speaker 2>So that maybe why I didn't go there.

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<v Speaker 1>Just transitioning from running a boarding house and tending to

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<v Speaker 1>all these individuals in the house to just selling some

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<v Speaker 1>cigars behind a counters that's quite the transition, much less

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<v Speaker 1>work for her, right, Especially in the eighteen hundreds, retail

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<v Speaker 1>was a very different world.

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<v Speaker 2>Right right, Oh my gosh, yeah, I could only imagine.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I think, like, you know, you're working in a

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<v Speaker 1>cigar shop. You're not like, hey, bring the truck around,

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<v Speaker 1>we got crates to unload. It's like, oh, hey, my

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<v Speaker 1>dude is dropping off the weekly box of cigars. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>where there are twenty four cigars this week? Like you

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<v Speaker 1>know what I mean. It's much more minimum.

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<v Speaker 2>And you're not dealing with like probably computers with like

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<v Speaker 2>transactions and stuff, right, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Imagine, And I'm pretty sure in the eighteen hundreds there

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<v Speaker 1>was much more polite activity occurring between transactions too, not

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<v Speaker 1>where's the manager I needs?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, Yes, I actually feel like all around it

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<v Speaker 2>would just be way more pleasant.

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<v Speaker 1>I think. So. So John was kind of onto something

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<v Speaker 1>though by bringing Marion to work for him, and that

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<v Speaker 1>something would be what we would now recognize as basically

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<v Speaker 1>a good bit of marketing. He wanted Mary to be

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<v Speaker 1>the face of his shop, and it would be a

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<v Speaker 1>good deal for quite literally any anyone involved. With Mary's

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<v Speaker 1>good looks and growing reputation around, she'd bring in more

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<v Speaker 1>men into the shop to buy cigars, which meant more sales,

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<v Speaker 1>which meant more money for everyone, including Mary.

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<v Speaker 2>He was kind of being pretty smart, really he was.

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<v Speaker 2>He was thinking he was using his nogin.

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<v Speaker 1>But Mary was a young woman, and it was eighteen forties.

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<v Speaker 1>During this era, less than ten percent of women held

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<v Speaker 1>jobs outside their home. Oh okay, Mary was no different.

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<v Speaker 1>She'd never left home for work, She never worked anywhere

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<v Speaker 1>outside of the boarding house she'd helped her mother run it,

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<v Speaker 1>and now John was proposing that she'd go to work

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<v Speaker 1>in a shop that didn't exactly have the cleanest reputation.

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<v Speaker 1>Wasn't so much that the shop itself was like a

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<v Speaker 1>bad part of town or anything. It just sold cigars, right,

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<v Speaker 1>But both Mary and her mother were concerned that the

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<v Speaker 1>type of men who'd be coming into the shop to

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<v Speaker 1>see Mary.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I see.

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<v Speaker 1>But when Mary figured out how much of a financial

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<v Speaker 1>success it could be for her, she and her potential

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<v Speaker 1>new boss. John managed to convince her mom to let

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<v Speaker 1>her take the job, even though she had her reservations

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<v Speaker 1>about it, so convinced her that was that, and Mary

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<v Speaker 1>began working at the shop. Mary's good looks and John's

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<v Speaker 1>branding made her into quote the cigar girl, and her

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<v Speaker 1>allure and reputation began to spread. Soon men were flocking

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<v Speaker 1>to the store just to see her. Really hey, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>turning her essentially into an eighteen hundred's equivalent influencer.

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty much yes, wow, thought pretty much a celebrity.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, that's pretty much what she was having that

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<v Speaker 1>title the cigar girl. Yeah like that, that in itself

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<v Speaker 1>sounds alluring, right, it does, especially for like gentlemen. You know, Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I smoke scars, the scotch, the whiskey or the whatever, right,

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<v Speaker 1>the top hat and the cane down the street. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>the illustrious cigar girl.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, as you're smoking this, it can be like

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<v Speaker 2>I bought this from like this is a.

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<v Speaker 1>Cigar girl, right, yeah, I talk to her. She smiled

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<v Speaker 1>at me like right, like, oh, that's a big deal.

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<v Speaker 1>So Mary, though she wasn't what you typically think of

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<v Speaker 1>as you know, the influencer, the negative connotations that we

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<v Speaker 1>discussed at the beginning. She wasn't larger than life, she

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't loud or energetic, but she was very sweet. She

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<v Speaker 1>was modest and very dignified. She was quick with a smile,

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<v Speaker 1>but just as quick to shut down any ideas that

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<v Speaker 1>any of the men at the store may be getting

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<v Speaker 1>about her, and that only made her reputation grow bigger.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh right, man, she was just I don't know, playing

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<v Speaker 2>this right, but not even necessarily intentionally.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not like it's just her. Yeah, she's not playing

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<v Speaker 1>it right. Yeah, she's just fitting into this perfectly, seamlessly.

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<v Speaker 1>It's almost like a proverb proverbial proverbial Can I say

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<v Speaker 1>that proverbial Cinderella's glass slipper. It's just the perfect fit.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it almost just seems like this is like

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<v Speaker 2>a movie.

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<v Speaker 1>To me, I wouldn't be surprised if there was movies

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<v Speaker 1>actually made from this. Yeah. I mean, Mary literally encompassed

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<v Speaker 1>the ideals of the perfect woman. For her times, people

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00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:36.159
<v Speaker 1>just literally couldn't get enough of her. She was ideal

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<v Speaker 1>in every way, so she became an attraction. Men flocked

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<v Speaker 1>to the store. They bought cigars, postcards, and mementos. With

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<v Speaker 1>her face on them.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, And all the while Mary just focused on being

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<v Speaker 1>her and focused on her work, making sure that she

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00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:55.679
<v Speaker 1>was a model employee, and not paying much attention to

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00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:57.720
<v Speaker 1>the reputation growing around her and her name.

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00:15:58.080 --> 00:15:59.759
<v Speaker 2>And she's probably bring in quite a bit of.

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<v Speaker 1>Bank, definitely.

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<v Speaker 2>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>This went so far that one man even wrote a

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<v Speaker 1>poem inspired by Mary that appeared in the New York Herald.

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<v Speaker 1>And while I couldn't find the poem itself, I did

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<v Speaker 1>find a couple quoted lines from it where it refers

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<v Speaker 1>to her quote heaven like smile end quote star like eyes.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, Yes, person's head over heels.

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<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of individuals were head over heels

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00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:26.759
<v Speaker 1>for Mary.

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00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, and correct me if I'm wrong. But at that age,

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<v Speaker 2>probably in the eighteen hundreds, it's probably rare that she

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00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:36.799
<v Speaker 2>wasn't married, right, Probably because I feel like people back

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00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:38.320
<v Speaker 2>then got married quite young.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean she is twenty and single.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so yeah, well I'm kind of digging her. I

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00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:46.799
<v Speaker 2>like it.

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<v Speaker 1>She's pretty awesome. Yeah, she sounds honestly like quite a

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00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:53.000
<v Speaker 1>nice individual. She's got a good head on her shoulders,

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00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:55.720
<v Speaker 1>and I mean beauty like that. No one can complain.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, yeah, there's photos.

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<v Speaker 1>Of her teen hundred baby.

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00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Well is there anything like?

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00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:04.880
<v Speaker 1>No, there's like drawings.

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<v Speaker 2>What about these things that people were purchasing though.

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<v Speaker 1>Like sketches and drawings?

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00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well I want to see that.

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00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:13.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, well I did already post one on Instagram, so.

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00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:15.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I didn't see that yet. That's bad.

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<v Speaker 1>So after she had been at the shop for about

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00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:24.799
<v Speaker 1>ten months with no problems, things started to change when

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00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:27.720
<v Speaker 1>Mary didn't show up for work one morning and no

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00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:32.319
<v Speaker 1>one knew quite where she was. Her boss, John reached

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00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:35.559
<v Speaker 1>out to Mary's mother, who was just as shocked as

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00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:38.079
<v Speaker 1>he was when she found out that Mary hadn't shown

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00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:42.880
<v Speaker 1>up for work and that she basically disappeared, and the

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00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:46.160
<v Speaker 1>both of them went forward and reported her missing to

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00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:51.759
<v Speaker 1>the authorities. So with her reported disappearance, newspapers began printing

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<v Speaker 1>that Mary had disappeared from her home and her mother

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<v Speaker 1>said that she had found an apparent suicide note.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh oh shit.

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00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:03.119
<v Speaker 1>But this had turned out to be a hoax?

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00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:10.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, yeah, but honestly, sometimes that's it surprised me,

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00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:11.559
<v Speaker 2>But it didn't surprise me, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, if that was the case, a suicide note.

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00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:16.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because sometimes when you're just like in that limelight

353
00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:17.960
<v Speaker 2>and you have all this pressure and.

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff like, oh, things tend to get to you.

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00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:20.799
<v Speaker 2>It can. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So searches in the neighborhood were done. The press

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00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:28.559
<v Speaker 1>published story after story of the missing cigar girl, but

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00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:34.119
<v Speaker 1>it looked like Mary had just disappeared. And the next

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<v Speaker 1>day Mary just reappeared.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, yeah, alive and well yeah okay.

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00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:46.160
<v Speaker 1>Though she wasn't back at work, and it was the

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<v Speaker 1>talk of the town and everyone kind of knew. Though

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00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:53.880
<v Speaker 1>some thought that her reappearance could potentially be a hoax

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00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.559
<v Speaker 1>because she wasn't at work, no one really saw her.

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<v Speaker 1>It was just word spreading that she's bad.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh a rumor.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Anothers thought her disappearance was actually what was the hoax?

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<v Speaker 1>Did she really disappear? Did she really come back? No

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<v Speaker 1>one really knew, and some actually blamed John, thinking that

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<v Speaker 1>maybe this was just another publicity stunt, more marketing.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually that kind of crossed my mind. It wouldn't be

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<v Speaker 2>the worst thing, really, It would only make her more famous, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And it would only make a cigar shop get more traffic. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>And he's already clearly got that sort of mindset for marketing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>virality of the eighteen hundreds.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, he's pretty creative. Really.

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00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:37.599
<v Speaker 1>I definite props to that because he is definitely creative

378
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:41.640
<v Speaker 1>for that. So, either way, Mary came back to work

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<v Speaker 1>six days later.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, she did come back to work, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Looking well, but reportedly apparently no longer smiling her usual smile.

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00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:53.240
<v Speaker 1>But she told people she'd just been away visiting relatives

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<v Speaker 1>in the countryside, and both John and her mother stood

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00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:59.559
<v Speaker 1>by her story, even though they were the ones who

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00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:01.119
<v Speaker 1>reported her missing in the first place.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. When you said that, I'm like, that's really odd.

387
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So there's not a whole lot really known about

388
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:09.519
<v Speaker 1>that or the truth behind it. It was just kind

389
00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:14.400
<v Speaker 1>of that's what we went with. That's what we know.

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00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:19.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay. Yeah, that's confusing the shit out of me. Where

391
00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:19.839
<v Speaker 2>the fuck was she?

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00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:23.200
<v Speaker 1>Trust me? It kind of confuses me too, Okay, but

393
00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.119
<v Speaker 1>it is what it is. So even though she'd return, though,

394
00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:28.079
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people were in that same mindset like

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00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:31.519
<v Speaker 1>what really happened? And they were wondering, and they each

396
00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:33.599
<v Speaker 1>tried to kind of come up with their own explanation

397
00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:37.200
<v Speaker 1>for what really occurred. Rumors began circulating that Mary had

398
00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:41.839
<v Speaker 1>been seen in other parts in New York, not the countryside,

399
00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:46.240
<v Speaker 1>during those days that she was reportedly being missing, and

400
00:20:46.279 --> 00:20:47.960
<v Speaker 1>that she hadn't been alone.

401
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:49.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay.

402
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:52.599
<v Speaker 1>The rumors said that Mary had seen was seen, sorry,

403
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:56.240
<v Speaker 1>in the company of a handsome naval officer, and that

404
00:20:56.359 --> 00:20:59.279
<v Speaker 1>Mary was actually lying about what she'd been up to

405
00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:01.319
<v Speaker 1>during those six days that she had been gone.

406
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:04.880
<v Speaker 2>You know, I kind of I just hate that because

407
00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:08.160
<v Speaker 2>you want to say you want to hide something or

408
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.440
<v Speaker 2>keep something quiet, then people just like make it up

409
00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:15.440
<v Speaker 2>for you, like there's just no getting out of it.

410
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:17.559
<v Speaker 2>Really pretty much that happens nowadays.

411
00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:21.079
<v Speaker 1>Oh it does all the time. Yeah, yeah, And remember

412
00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:23.319
<v Speaker 1>this is eighteen forty one too, right.

413
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:25.279
<v Speaker 2>Like maybe she just wanted a hot fucking minute.

414
00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:30.759
<v Speaker 1>True. Reputations for individuals in eighteen forty one, especially women,

415
00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:35.039
<v Speaker 1>were everything, and Mary's image had been built on her looks,

416
00:21:35.079 --> 00:21:38.400
<v Speaker 1>her modesty, and with these rumors going around, Mary's reputation

417
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:41.680
<v Speaker 1>began to literally come into question. And I mean, what

418
00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:42.839
<v Speaker 1>if she just couldn't handle it?

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00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:45.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, Like much.

420
00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Like influencers today when they're pressured about anything, Maybe it's

421
00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:54.160
<v Speaker 1>someone's integrity, their history, what maybe they posted the wrong

422
00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:57.480
<v Speaker 1>thing on Instagram? Who knows right. Things can get to

423
00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.400
<v Speaker 1>an individual, those pressures, those build up.

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00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:01.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you can say the wrong word at times

425
00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:05.200
<v Speaker 2>and it's a big fucking deal, so you miss. It's

426
00:22:05.240 --> 00:22:06.519
<v Speaker 2>a lot of pressure. It can be a lot of

427
00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:07.519
<v Speaker 2>pressure sometimes.

428
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:11.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you can literally just misgender someone and it

429
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:15.720
<v Speaker 1>could be an honest mistake. I mean, I've unfortunately misgendered someone,

430
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:20.079
<v Speaker 1>I apologize and continue on. Thankfully they've been receptive and

431
00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:23.640
<v Speaker 1>understanding that it was an honest mistake. Yeah, but some

432
00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:27.759
<v Speaker 1>people might not be receptive of an apology, right, And

433
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:31.799
<v Speaker 1>that's the world we live in. It is so so

434
00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:35.240
<v Speaker 1>for Mary. She'd been back for only one week and

435
00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:38.559
<v Speaker 1>she decided to quit her job at the cigar shop

436
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:41.880
<v Speaker 1>due to all the whispering surrounding her name, and she

437
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.319
<v Speaker 1>returned back to a boarding house with her mother.

438
00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:47.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, I mean she had somewhere nice to return,

439
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:48.160
<v Speaker 2>but that sucks.

440
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:51.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I'm sure it was fun while it lasted.

441
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:53.839
<v Speaker 1>She got some extra money out of it. It was

442
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:57.039
<v Speaker 1>time to move on, so she stayed at the boardinghouse

443
00:22:57.079 --> 00:22:58.920
<v Speaker 1>as far away from the public eye as she could,

444
00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:02.640
<v Speaker 1>living and working the boarding house again. But it was

445
00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:05.839
<v Speaker 1>only a month later when there would be another development

446
00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:06.799
<v Speaker 1>in Mary's story.

447
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:08.119
<v Speaker 2>She disappeared again.

448
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:10.000
<v Speaker 1>She was engaged.

449
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:12.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh yep, okay, that's good.

450
00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:15.200
<v Speaker 1>She announced an engagement not to a tall, dark and

451
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:19.759
<v Speaker 1>mysterious naval officer, though, but someone else entirely, a man

452
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:24.079
<v Speaker 1>by the name of Daniel Payne ay any okay, yep.

453
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:27.200
<v Speaker 1>He was a young man who was about the same

454
00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:30.079
<v Speaker 1>age as Mary, and he also worked as a clerk,

455
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.119
<v Speaker 1>and he lived in the boarding house that Mary and

456
00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:36.400
<v Speaker 1>her mother ran. Okay, that sounds good, which is how

457
00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:40.039
<v Speaker 1>Mary came to meet this individual. And it was within

458
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:43.920
<v Speaker 1>only a month that the two were to get married. Yeah,

459
00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:46.720
<v Speaker 1>so they were engaged within a month. And this sudden

460
00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:50.240
<v Speaker 1>engagement didn't help stop rumors that Mary had been up

461
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:52.599
<v Speaker 1>to something when she shouldn't have been to, or what

462
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:55.359
<v Speaker 1>she against what she had said. In fact, it only

463
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:59.319
<v Speaker 1>seemed to make them worse, as whisperings continued behind her back.

464
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:02.079
<v Speaker 1>But Mary at least seemed a little bit more like

465
00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:05.240
<v Speaker 1>her old self again. She smiled and just kind of kept.

466
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:07.279
<v Speaker 2>To herself, waved it off and moved on.

467
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:11.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, just water off a ducts back, right, And

468
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:12.759
<v Speaker 1>sometimes it's hard to do those things.

469
00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:13.400
<v Speaker 2>M hm.

470
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:16.839
<v Speaker 1>Social media, you get a negative comment, we get a

471
00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:20.319
<v Speaker 1>negative review in the podcast, it can weigh you down, yeah,

472
00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:23.359
<v Speaker 1>because someone takes that time just to be a dick

473
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:25.279
<v Speaker 1>to you. You know, it's like fuck you.

474
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:29.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Honestly, my one friend she does listen, so we'll

475
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:32.279
<v Speaker 2>see if she says something, but she always says bless

476
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:34.839
<v Speaker 2>and release, so just bless them and the release them.

477
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:37.599
<v Speaker 2>And I honestly like, I have to remind myself that sometimes.

478
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:38.640
<v Speaker 2>But it's a really good saying.

479
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:44.759
<v Speaker 1>And there's a big difference too, between criticism, constructive criticism,

480
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:46.319
<v Speaker 1>and yeah, being a dick you.

481
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:48.559
<v Speaker 2>Know, oh yeah, because yeah, sometimes it can be like

482
00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.920
<v Speaker 2>just saying something and really honestly helping you to improve

483
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:54.920
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, oh, okay, I could actually work on that,

484
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:59.279
<v Speaker 2>rather than just be like your personality is shit exactly.

485
00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:01.000
<v Speaker 2>It's like, oh wow.

486
00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:04.160
<v Speaker 1>And whisperings behind your back about shit that they don't

487
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:08.160
<v Speaker 1>even know or experience are making up, Like what's the point, right, Yeah,

488
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:09.720
<v Speaker 1>it's just gossip.

489
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.480
<v Speaker 2>But that's good that she was just letting it be

490
00:25:12.680 --> 00:25:13.119
<v Speaker 2>kind of thing.

491
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:18.039
<v Speaker 1>So by the summer, you know, the two of them

492
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:21.000
<v Speaker 1>were still quite not yet married, and despite some of

493
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:24.720
<v Speaker 1>the recent rumors, it was clear that Mary wasn't pregnant.

494
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:28.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh god, that was one of the rumors.

495
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:31.319
<v Speaker 1>That's that's one of the rumors that are flowing around,

496
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:34.480
<v Speaker 1>which all to note that might come in a little

497
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:35.079
<v Speaker 1>bit later on.

498
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:35.799
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

499
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:39.680
<v Speaker 1>So the day was July twenty fifth, eighteen forty one,

500
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:43.119
<v Speaker 1>and Mary knocked on Daniel's door at the boarding house

501
00:25:43.160 --> 00:25:44.640
<v Speaker 1>and told him that she was going to go spend

502
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:47.680
<v Speaker 1>the day with her aunt. Daniel was just as happy

503
00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:50.680
<v Speaker 1>that Mary was happy and hoped that she would have

504
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:53.440
<v Speaker 1>a good day out, so he told her that he

505
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:55.480
<v Speaker 1>would come by in the evening and walk her home

506
00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:59.240
<v Speaker 1>in the two part of their ways. But the universe

507
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:02.759
<v Speaker 1>works in funny ways sometimes, and it had other plans

508
00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:05.480
<v Speaker 1>for how that evening would play out. As a day

509
00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:09.240
<v Speaker 1>went on, a huge rainstorm rolled in and the streets

510
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:13.599
<v Speaker 1>were drenched in tremendous amounts of rain. Daniel had also

511
00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:16.000
<v Speaker 1>spent that Sunday out of the boarding house, but when

512
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:18.519
<v Speaker 1>he saw how much it was raining, he decided not

513
00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:21.119
<v Speaker 1>to stop by and pick up Mary for a walk home.

514
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:23.960
<v Speaker 1>He figured that she wouldn't want to walk home in

515
00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:28.319
<v Speaker 1>a storm, probably unsafe, and that she was, you know,

516
00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:31.480
<v Speaker 1>with her aunt. So we thought she was probably safe

517
00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:33.759
<v Speaker 1>at the place where she was currently, and she could

518
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:36.440
<v Speaker 1>probably even stay the night there if necessary, right, which

519
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:37.839
<v Speaker 1>is probably a good call.

520
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, and then I was just thinking, it's hard to

521
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:44.640
<v Speaker 2>think differently, right, But I was just like phoner, but like,

522
00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:46.839
<v Speaker 2>they don't have phones, No, you can't phone.

523
00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:49.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm just gonna send her a quick text, just.

524
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:53.519
<v Speaker 2>A Facebook message and let her know. Yeah, oh my gosh.

525
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:55.799
<v Speaker 1>Maybe give her a can and a string and we

526
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:59.720
<v Speaker 1>can communicate that way. I don't know. Yeah, So he

527
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:01.799
<v Speaker 1>decided not to go pick her up, and he headed

528
00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:04.519
<v Speaker 1>home without her. And when he arrived home, he told

529
00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Mary's mother about his decision, and she agreed. She thought

530
00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:09.759
<v Speaker 1>that it would best not to be traveling the storm,

531
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:11.440
<v Speaker 1>that he made the right decision.

532
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:13.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, because I was like, is she gonna like this decision?

533
00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:15.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I like this decision, because shit's

534
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:16.759
<v Speaker 2>going down. I can already tell.

535
00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:19.599
<v Speaker 1>It was quite the storm outside, and she agreed, best

536
00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:22.440
<v Speaker 1>not walk in the storm. Mary's probably just sitting there

537
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:25.039
<v Speaker 1>and the aunt's home and they'll wait it out too.

538
00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:25.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

539
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:29.240
<v Speaker 1>So the next day, after the storm had passed, Phoebe

540
00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:32.799
<v Speaker 1>Mary's mother expected Mary to come home on her home

541
00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:35.240
<v Speaker 1>during the day. It was light out, you know, and

542
00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:37.960
<v Speaker 1>she can make her way home just fine, especially since

543
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:40.839
<v Speaker 1>she made her way there to begin with. But as

544
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:43.279
<v Speaker 1>the hours ticked by, her mother began to get nervous.

545
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:46.720
<v Speaker 1>By dinner time in the evening, when Daniel had come

546
00:27:46.759 --> 00:27:50.319
<v Speaker 1>home from work and Mary still wasn't back, they both

547
00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:55.680
<v Speaker 1>knew something might not be right, and Daniel headed back outside.

548
00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:58.279
<v Speaker 1>He went straight to Mary's aunts to see if Mary

549
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:02.000
<v Speaker 1>was still there. There was a chance that she was

550
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:04.480
<v Speaker 1>still there, and maybe she just you know, enjoying herself

551
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:07.680
<v Speaker 1>and enjoying the stay and enjoying the company. Maybe she

552
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:10.400
<v Speaker 1>even got sick, or who knows what. She wasn't able

553
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:13.559
<v Speaker 1>to walk home by herself. So he thought all these

554
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:15.799
<v Speaker 1>things in his head, all these different scenarios.

555
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Let me guess what. She was never there.

556
00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Hit the nail on the head, yep.

557
00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:27.960
<v Speaker 2>I knew it. Yeah, you were leading us up to that, yep.

558
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:30.480
<v Speaker 1>So when he got there, he asked Mary's aunt if

559
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.079
<v Speaker 1>she knew where she was, and she said that she

560
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:34.279
<v Speaker 1>was never there at all.

561
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:41.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yikes, Mary's in some trouble or she's hiding something

562
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:41.880
<v Speaker 2>big here.

563
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:43.400
<v Speaker 1>What do you think she could be hiding?

564
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:45.319
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I think she's in trouble. I think

565
00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:48.920
<v Speaker 2>she's in trouble. I'm not entirely sure how, but I

566
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:54.319
<v Speaker 2>think someone is threatening her or I won't want to say,

567
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:59.119
<v Speaker 2>holding her captive. But I don't influencing her in a

568
00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:00.240
<v Speaker 2>very bad way.

569
00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:02.599
<v Speaker 1>Influencing the influencer.

570
00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:04.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, wow, that's what I'm going with.

571
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:10.880
<v Speaker 1>That's like influencer inception. Well, I mean, technically, if you

572
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:13.559
<v Speaker 1>think about the influencers really are the one being influenced

573
00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:17.880
<v Speaker 1>because their likes and comments and follows are what drives them.

574
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:22.039
<v Speaker 2>We're getting deep here today.

575
00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:27.559
<v Speaker 1>Wow, you want another therapy session. That's gonna cost you. So,

576
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:31.240
<v Speaker 1>of course Daniel was worried now that Mary had quite

577
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:38.160
<v Speaker 1>literally disappeared again again, so both he and Mary's mother

578
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:43.839
<v Speaker 1>notified authorities. They reported where she was headed, who she

579
00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:47.680
<v Speaker 1>was supposed to be with, what she was wearing. And

580
00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:49.680
<v Speaker 1>it was summer, mind you, so she had traveled light

581
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:52.559
<v Speaker 1>and she was wearing lighter clothing as well. She didn't

582
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:55.119
<v Speaker 1>have a bag with her or a coat, and outside

583
00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:57.720
<v Speaker 1>her normal clothes, she had only been wearing a bonnet.

584
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:03.480
<v Speaker 1>So nothing extraordinary or anything. Mary's mother, rightfully so was

585
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:06.839
<v Speaker 1>quite worried. Something didn't quite sit right with this. If

586
00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:09.160
<v Speaker 1>the plan was to run away or even just run

587
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:11.880
<v Speaker 1>away for a few days, and why didn't Mary pack anything?

588
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:15.759
<v Speaker 1>Why was she just packing light? This most likely meant

589
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:20.839
<v Speaker 1>she intended to return home. The story of Mary's disappearing

590
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:24.160
<v Speaker 1>again was an even bigger story in Craze in the

591
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:25.759
<v Speaker 1>first time around for the newspaper.

592
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:28.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh really, see, I would have thought now that she

593
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:31.759
<v Speaker 2>wasn't the Cigar Girl, that it might not have been

594
00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:32.519
<v Speaker 2>such a big deal.

595
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:35.720
<v Speaker 1>She still has that titles. People still know who she is,

596
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:38.720
<v Speaker 1>and they still know her as the cigar Girl, even

597
00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:42.519
<v Speaker 1>if she doesn't work there anymore. So the Cigar Girl

598
00:30:42.680 --> 00:30:46.359
<v Speaker 1>hadn't just run away once, but twice, and the press

599
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:48.559
<v Speaker 1>and rumors, like I said, I just couldn't get enough.

600
00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:52.079
<v Speaker 1>Everyone was talked about what would have made Mary run

601
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:54.920
<v Speaker 1>away this time. Maybe your naval officer would come back

602
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:57.440
<v Speaker 1>from sea and they'd pick things up from where they'd

603
00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:01.799
<v Speaker 1>left off. Or maybe Mary was dumping her respectable clerk

604
00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:06.880
<v Speaker 1>boyfriend for a dark and rugged sailor who knows all

605
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:08.359
<v Speaker 1>these whisperings going on.

606
00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:12.839
<v Speaker 2>Or maybe she's in like actual danger and people need

607
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:14.880
<v Speaker 2>to shut the fuck up and just try to find her.

608
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:17.200
<v Speaker 1>That's true. That. I mean, I'm sure some of those

609
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:21.359
<v Speaker 1>rumors were going on. Authorities were searching. Don't dismiss that.

610
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, sorry, that was actually me being a little bit.

611
00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:27.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I'm getting into this and I just

612
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:28.559
<v Speaker 2>want to know where the fuck Mary is.

613
00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, several days went by with no news. By this time,

614
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:36.200
<v Speaker 1>Mary didn't just walk back into everyone's life like last time.

615
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:43.319
<v Speaker 1>She did, however, return, but in a much more morbid fashion.

616
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:45.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh seriously.

617
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:50.119
<v Speaker 1>It would be fishermen out of the waters near Castle Point.

618
00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:56.079
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, they would find near the shore. What they

619
00:31:56.119 --> 00:31:59.880
<v Speaker 1>saw was something weird, strange floating out in the water,

620
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:02.759
<v Speaker 1>so they decided to take a small boat to see

621
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:06.960
<v Speaker 1>what it was. And because of who she was, fishermen

622
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:09.400
<v Speaker 1>knew instantly when they approached her that they had found

623
00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:10.400
<v Speaker 1>the missing Cigar girl.

624
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:12.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

625
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:14.240
<v Speaker 1>And by the time they had returned back to shore

626
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:17.640
<v Speaker 1>with her body in the boat, word had already started

627
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:20.799
<v Speaker 1>to spread like wildfire about her discovery, and a crowd

628
00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:22.200
<v Speaker 1>had beg began to form.

629
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Really how earth did it spread like that? Though?

630
00:32:26.599 --> 00:32:29.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking maybe some shouting back and forth, like as

631
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:32.559
<v Speaker 1>they're approaching shore, get the authorities. We found the cigar

632
00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:35.680
<v Speaker 1>girls sort of thing maybe, And then people started to gather,

633
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:40.119
<v Speaker 1>That's my thought, because they certainly weren't sitting here calling

634
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:41.079
<v Speaker 1>on their cellphone. I know.

635
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

636
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:44.799
<v Speaker 1>And it was easy for everyone to see when they

637
00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:47.880
<v Speaker 1>took a look at Mary that she had been unfortunately

638
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:52.160
<v Speaker 1>beaten badly, and she had also been strangled with a

639
00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:55.400
<v Speaker 1>piece of lace from her own clothes. Oh I hate

640
00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:58.480
<v Speaker 1>that her wrists and ankles were bound and a weight

641
00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:01.920
<v Speaker 1>was tied around her waist by a chord, and there

642
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:04.920
<v Speaker 1>was still more to be, still more to come. Some

643
00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:08.359
<v Speaker 1>reports claimed that Mary had also been brutally raped before

644
00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:11.920
<v Speaker 1>she was murdered. Oh no, However, to preface that, I

645
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:15.359
<v Speaker 1>could not confirm that detail. Okay, so I could not

646
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:19.079
<v Speaker 1>find if that was rumor or fact. If she was.

647
00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:23.039
<v Speaker 2>Raped, see someone wash, someone was probably just obsessed with

648
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:26.319
<v Speaker 2>her this. I hope that we know that you get

649
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:28.079
<v Speaker 2>that you're telling us what happened here.

650
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:29.839
<v Speaker 1>I'm telling you everything I know.

651
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:34.279
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I hate those kind of answers. Why do you

652
00:33:34.359 --> 00:33:37.920
<v Speaker 2>hate those old older case that you probably don't know

653
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:39.680
<v Speaker 2>like a ton about what this should happened.

654
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:43.519
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm going to give you everything I know, and

655
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:45.960
<v Speaker 1>you can decide for yourself.

656
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:50.720
<v Speaker 2>If that's enough, If that's enough, okay, is it going

657
00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:51.480
<v Speaker 2>to be enough for me?

658
00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:54.240
<v Speaker 1>You're just gonna have to let me continue to talk

659
00:33:54.279 --> 00:33:56.640
<v Speaker 1>about it, and you'll find out. This is the third

660
00:33:56.680 --> 00:33:59.759
<v Speaker 1>time I'll tell you what I know. Okay, I'm your titties.

661
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:05.400
<v Speaker 1>So her official death was ruled as a strangulation via

662
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:09.360
<v Speaker 1>an optopsy, and rumors began circuling over who could have

663
00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:12.760
<v Speaker 1>done such a terrible thing to someone like Mary, And

664
00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:16.800
<v Speaker 1>with her mysterious supposed naval officer nowhere to be seen,

665
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:20.239
<v Speaker 1>the authorities quickly turned to the next man in line,

666
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:25.119
<v Speaker 1>Mary's fiance Daniel. Of course, they brought him in for questioning,

667
00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:28.000
<v Speaker 1>but he was able to give a very detailed account

668
00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:31.800
<v Speaker 1>of his whereabouts and movements and was released not long after.

669
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:37.159
<v Speaker 1>He clearly wasn't the culprit. After that, another weeks, sorry,

670
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:40.320
<v Speaker 1>did they also take the boss into I'm sure they

671
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:41.760
<v Speaker 1>talked to the boss, but I don't think he was

672
00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:45.639
<v Speaker 1>really come in for questioning or anything, but okay. It

673
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:47.440
<v Speaker 1>would be another week that went by with no more

674
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:51.119
<v Speaker 1>new developments though, and no new leads, and authorities began

675
00:34:51.159 --> 00:34:54.039
<v Speaker 1>to get desperate. They first announced a reward for arrest

676
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:56.519
<v Speaker 1>and conviction of the murderer. And then they took it

677
00:34:56.519 --> 00:34:59.239
<v Speaker 1>a step further when they announced that anyone who knew

678
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:02.559
<v Speaker 1>anything about the crime, including anyone who maybe even took

679
00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:06.800
<v Speaker 1>part in it but was actually not the murderer themselves,

680
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:11.559
<v Speaker 1>would be offered a reward and even immunity if they

681
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:14.239
<v Speaker 1>could help capture and convict the person who had actually

682
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:14.960
<v Speaker 1>killed Mary.

683
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Yes, Wow, they're really trying here.

684
00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:23.280
<v Speaker 1>So it's not like it's just all these rumors and whisperings.

685
00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:25.039
<v Speaker 1>Authorities are doing their due diligence.

686
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:28.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because that's a big reward, real or not reward,

687
00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:31.119
<v Speaker 2>But saying that you'll have immunity, that's a big deal.

688
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:33.679
<v Speaker 1>Immunity, that's a huge deal. It's huge.

689
00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:35.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

690
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:38.079
<v Speaker 1>So the very next day after the authorities announced this,

691
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:42.559
<v Speaker 1>they received an anonymous letter claiming to be from a

692
00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:46.920
<v Speaker 1>man in Hoboken who's seen Mary there on Sunday. He

693
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:51.239
<v Speaker 1>said that he'd seen Mary walking in the sick Sorry,

694
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:54.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to try and pronounce this right. Elysian. There

695
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:58.599
<v Speaker 1>we go, Elysian Fields, and she hadn't been alone. Not

696
00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:01.239
<v Speaker 1>long after Mary had got there, a boat had apparently

697
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:04.039
<v Speaker 1>pulled up, pulled up to the shore, and six rugged

698
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:08.559
<v Speaker 1>looking men got off and headed to Mary. Mary had

699
00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:12.519
<v Speaker 1>seen to know them, at least, she hadn't seemed uncomfortable

700
00:36:12.519 --> 00:36:15.440
<v Speaker 1>around them, as she'd been laughing and talking with them,

701
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:19.000
<v Speaker 1>and then after a while they headed towards the forest together.

702
00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:22.840
<v Speaker 1>But then the letter kind of continued. It wasn't long

703
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.599
<v Speaker 1>after Mary and the six men disappeared into the forest

704
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:28.400
<v Speaker 1>that another boat sailed up to the shore from New York.

705
00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:31.840
<v Speaker 1>Inside the boat, there were three well dressed men, and

706
00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:33.840
<v Speaker 1>one of them got out to talk to another couple

707
00:36:33.880 --> 00:36:37.639
<v Speaker 1>of men on the dock. This man had been reportedly

708
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.800
<v Speaker 1>asked if anyone had seen a group of six young

709
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:44.519
<v Speaker 1>men and a woman, and the man the dock said

710
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:46.760
<v Speaker 1>that they had seen them, and that even pointed towards

711
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:48.519
<v Speaker 1>the direction of the forest where Mary and the men

712
00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:51.599
<v Speaker 1>had gone. But the man from the boat asked another question.

713
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:54.719
<v Speaker 1>He asked if the men had used force against Mary

714
00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:58.039
<v Speaker 1>or if she'd gone with them without a fight, and

715
00:36:58.079 --> 00:36:59.559
<v Speaker 1>the man of the dock told her that the group

716
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:03.119
<v Speaker 1>of men hadn't touched her, and the men from the

717
00:37:03.159 --> 00:37:06.679
<v Speaker 1>boat then apparently got back in the boat and headed

718
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:09.360
<v Speaker 1>back to New York without asking or saying anything. Else.

719
00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:15.199
<v Speaker 2>Hmm, this is so odd, isn't it. Yeah, Like I'm

720
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:17.800
<v Speaker 2>just my brain's just going wild here, Like what was

721
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:20.280
<v Speaker 2>she up to? Like I don't get this at all.

722
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:23.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. No one came forward either, claiming to

723
00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:24.480
<v Speaker 1>be the author of this letter.

724
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:25.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, they never did.

725
00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:28.880
<v Speaker 1>Hey, no, But it was published in a newspaper, and

726
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:31.760
<v Speaker 1>the very next day after that, another piece of the

727
00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:35.639
<v Speaker 1>puzzle fell into place, recognizing the story those two men

728
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:39.079
<v Speaker 1>from the dock who were questioned by these other individuals

729
00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:41.840
<v Speaker 1>in the from New York, From New York. Okay, they

730
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:45.400
<v Speaker 1>came forward and said, yes, everything in that letter is true.

731
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:47.960
<v Speaker 1>But they also said that even though they knew who

732
00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Mary was, at least what she looked like, they hadn't

733
00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:55.119
<v Speaker 1>been too far away from the group and they weren't

734
00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:58.199
<v Speaker 1>actually sure if it was Mary who had gone into

735
00:37:58.239 --> 00:37:59.960
<v Speaker 1>the fores set. They weren't, so.

736
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:02.559
<v Speaker 2>If it was her, that adds in level.

737
00:38:03.719 --> 00:38:05.920
<v Speaker 1>It would be another few weeks before there was another

738
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:08.800
<v Speaker 1>break in the case, but this time it came from

739
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:12.559
<v Speaker 1>a stagecoach driver. The driver claimed that he'd seen Mary

740
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:15.320
<v Speaker 1>arrive in a boken on that day, and she pretended

741
00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:18.760
<v Speaker 1>to go visit her aunt and that she hadn't been alone.

742
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:21.800
<v Speaker 1>He claimed that Mary was with a tall man with

743
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:24.760
<v Speaker 1>dark hair, and that both of them had gone into

744
00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:29.840
<v Speaker 1>an inn near Elysian Fields. The investigators were able to

745
00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:32.360
<v Speaker 1>track down the inn and speak with the innkeeper, and

746
00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:36.599
<v Speaker 1>she confirmed this story. She didn't know who either of

747
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:39.920
<v Speaker 1>the visitors had been, but she remembered a man with

748
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:42.360
<v Speaker 1>dark hair and a young woman, and she remembered that

749
00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:44.960
<v Speaker 1>they'd gotten something to eat before they headed off into

750
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:48.880
<v Speaker 1>the forest together. Not long after they disappeared in the forest,

751
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:53.360
<v Speaker 1>the innkeeper remembered hearing a woman scream oh wow. But

752
00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:57.400
<v Speaker 1>reportedly the inn's in a bit more rough area, and

753
00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:00.639
<v Speaker 1>she said that that kind of thing can sometime times happen,

754
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:03.400
<v Speaker 1>and she hadn't really thought anything of it at the time,

755
00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:06.360
<v Speaker 1>especially when she kind of went outside and listened a

756
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:09.039
<v Speaker 1>little bit closely for a second scream and it never

757
00:39:09.159 --> 00:39:10.039
<v Speaker 1>came o.

758
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Case. Just two things really quick. One, I just hate

759
00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:16.800
<v Speaker 2>that that you're just in a shitty area and a

760
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:20.519
<v Speaker 2>scream is just not alarming when really someone needs help.

761
00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:23.519
<v Speaker 1>Oh, isn't that terrible? I hate that's horrible.

762
00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:26.400
<v Speaker 2>And then I also just kind of like love her too,

763
00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:29.320
<v Speaker 2>because I love it when people when if someone came

764
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:31.039
<v Speaker 2>and it's like a big deal and they're like, yeah,

765
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:32.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know who the fuck that is, Like I

766
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:35.119
<v Speaker 2>just I just love that. I don't know what. It

767
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:37.760
<v Speaker 2>makes me happy and just like smile inside.

768
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:40.599
<v Speaker 1>Think of that as a modern day influencer situation.

769
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:43.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like I don't know someone who thinks that they're

770
00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:45.000
<v Speaker 2>a big deal and they're like a rot. Not that

771
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:47.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying that Mary thinks she's a big deal, but

772
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:51.119
<v Speaker 2>they're arriving somewhere and this person is expecting like special treatment.

773
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:53.519
<v Speaker 1>The person just like, yeah, I don't think she was

774
00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:54.519
<v Speaker 1>expecting that specially.

775
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:54.719
<v Speaker 2>No.

776
00:39:55.039 --> 00:40:00.400
<v Speaker 1>But imagine like, okay, an Instagram influencer going to like

777
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:03.519
<v Speaker 1>an ice cream shop on the beach and like San

778
00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:06.159
<v Speaker 1>Francisco or something. Yeah, San Francisco's beach is.

779
00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, oh yeah yeah.

780
00:40:08.679 --> 00:40:11.639
<v Speaker 1>And they're like, oh, if I post a picture of

781
00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:14.519
<v Speaker 1>your ice cream and tagu, would you give me my

782
00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:17.400
<v Speaker 1>ice cream for free? Because I have like eighty thousand followers.

783
00:40:18.199 --> 00:40:20.960
<v Speaker 1>And then the person's just like, who the fuck are you?

784
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:24.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know. So this is this little in lady.

785
00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:26.119
<v Speaker 2>I just love her for some reason.

786
00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:31.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So it would be though two months later that

787
00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:34.400
<v Speaker 1>that very same innkeeper, missus Lawson, would call upon the

788
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:39.000
<v Speaker 1>authorities again, but this time she had something quite different

789
00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:39.440
<v Speaker 1>to say.

790
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh dang, maybe we don't love her. Was she hiding things?

791
00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:45.239
<v Speaker 1>Well, according to her, her children had been playing in

792
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:49.199
<v Speaker 1>the forest when they found the exact spot where Mary

793
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:51.639
<v Speaker 1>had allegedly been killed.

794
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:55.480
<v Speaker 2>Really, so this is legitimately a month later that she

795
00:40:55.639 --> 00:40:59.000
<v Speaker 2>had found new information. Yes, okay, she didn't have this

796
00:40:59.079 --> 00:41:01.760
<v Speaker 2>at that time when they first questioned.

797
00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:06.039
<v Speaker 1>Correct, okay, so our kids apparently found a white petticoat

798
00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:08.880
<v Speaker 1>caught in a bush, and they found a silk scarf

799
00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:12.760
<v Speaker 1>and a parasol and a handkerchief with the initials m

800
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:18.880
<v Speaker 1>R on it, and Mary's mother confirmed these items to

801
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:24.360
<v Speaker 1>be belonging to Mary. That's sad. Everyone was then on

802
00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:27.559
<v Speaker 1>the lookout for a tall man with dark hair, a

803
00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:31.079
<v Speaker 1>description that coincidentally closely resembled the naval officer in the

804
00:41:31.159 --> 00:41:33.880
<v Speaker 1>rumors from the first time Mary had gone missing, and

805
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:37.880
<v Speaker 1>only added to the fuel for that rumor. But regardless,

806
00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:40.599
<v Speaker 1>no one could find this man, this tall man with

807
00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:41.199
<v Speaker 1>the dark hair.

808
00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:43.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, that's really not very descriptive.

809
00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:47.199
<v Speaker 1>Not really. Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of individuals

810
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:49.280
<v Speaker 1>around like that. I'm sure a lot of guys were like,

811
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:51.079
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna wear my hat today because I don't want

812
00:41:51.079 --> 00:41:53.719
<v Speaker 1>to get like suspected of some shit, exactly. I don't

813
00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:58.719
<v Speaker 1>want to be that sus So the authorities went back

814
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:02.320
<v Speaker 1>to Mary's mother, hoping that maybe she knew more about him,

815
00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:05.199
<v Speaker 1>Maybe she did meet this guy, maybe she knew something.

816
00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:07.320
<v Speaker 1>Maybe she could I don't know, bring some light to

817
00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:11.159
<v Speaker 1>the situation, but she said she didn't know, and if

818
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:14.480
<v Speaker 1>she did know who he was, she certainly didn't tell police.

819
00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:17.360
<v Speaker 1>Maybe she was in a situation where she was worried

820
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:21.440
<v Speaker 1>that similar fate could be waiting for her. Yeah, hard

821
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:27.119
<v Speaker 1>to say. Daniel unfortunately took Mary's death very hard.

822
00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

823
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:30.840
<v Speaker 1>In the months that followed her death, his mental health

824
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:33.360
<v Speaker 1>began to suffer, and once the news broke about the

825
00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:36.639
<v Speaker 1>finding of where she was most likely killed, there was

826
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:38.559
<v Speaker 1>no going back for him.

827
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:39.960
<v Speaker 2>Ah.

828
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:43.800
<v Speaker 1>Daniel was found deceased in the very same spot only

829
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:48.039
<v Speaker 1>a few weeks later. Seriously, he decided to commit suicide

830
00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:53.039
<v Speaker 1>over the loss of his fiance and overdosed on laudanum.

831
00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:56.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know what that is. I didn't want

832
00:42:56.280 --> 00:42:57.440
<v Speaker 1>to look it up. Because I just kind of want

833
00:42:57.480 --> 00:42:59.760
<v Speaker 1>to give this guy his space as much as I could. Yeah,

834
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:04.119
<v Speaker 1>you ended up overdosing while heavily intoxicated, and there was

835
00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:07.719
<v Speaker 1>a note found with him that read to the world,

836
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:12.239
<v Speaker 1>Here I am on the very spot. May God forgive

837
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:13.920
<v Speaker 1>me for my misspent life.

838
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:22.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. That's terrible, isn't it. Oh? Wow?

839
00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:27.519
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Now some say this maybe ominous words that show

840
00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:30.039
<v Speaker 1>he may have played a part in her final days.

841
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:33.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh, because I was just gonna say, he doesn't even

842
00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:38.000
<v Speaker 2>know what the heck happened, Like, he doesn't know anything really, right.

843
00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:43.199
<v Speaker 1>And but most don't suspect him of anything, though there

844
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:45.480
<v Speaker 1>are a few who say that this might point towards him.

845
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:47.679
<v Speaker 2>Can you read what it said one more time? Sorry?

846
00:43:48.519 --> 00:43:51.960
<v Speaker 1>It says to the world, here I am on the

847
00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:55.920
<v Speaker 1>very spot, May God forgive me for my misspent life.

848
00:43:58.039 --> 00:44:00.840
<v Speaker 1>And that very spot, just to clarify, is the spot

849
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:01.679
<v Speaker 1>Mary was killed.

850
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:04.119
<v Speaker 2>Right. Yeah, Like I mean he was heartbroken.

851
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:08.800
<v Speaker 1>Yep. Now, the tall man with dark hair was never

852
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:14.079
<v Speaker 1>identified or caught, and Mary's case has never been solved.

853
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:16.719
<v Speaker 2>I was really hoping that wouldn't be the case.

854
00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:20.079
<v Speaker 1>No, though her death remains a mystery, this didn't stop

855
00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:24.119
<v Speaker 1>speculation and rumors, just as she endured while she was living,

856
00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:29.480
<v Speaker 1>People talked and formed stories just as much while she

857
00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:34.440
<v Speaker 1>was passed. One story actually speculates Mary's killer wasn't actually

858
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:39.119
<v Speaker 1>a man with tall, dark hair. This theory suggests that

859
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:45.360
<v Speaker 1>her killer was a woman, a doctor. This alleged doctor

860
00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:50.320
<v Speaker 1>named Madan Ristelle was actually quite renowned, and she was

861
00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:55.039
<v Speaker 1>renowned for helping women at the time terminate unwanted pregnancies.

862
00:44:56.039 --> 00:45:02.679
<v Speaker 1>Oh yes, damn. Marstelle wasn't a legitimate doctor, mind you,

863
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:05.719
<v Speaker 1>but she still did what she could to help individuals

864
00:45:05.719 --> 00:45:09.639
<v Speaker 1>who needed her help. So what if this doctor was

865
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:13.599
<v Speaker 1>helping Mary and her fiance terminate their unwanted pregnancy and

866
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:18.679
<v Speaker 1>things didn't go so well. It's presumed that the doctor

867
00:45:18.719 --> 00:45:23.000
<v Speaker 1>would have fled, and Mary's mother and Daniel would have

868
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:27.119
<v Speaker 1>been left with Mary's body, and they've desperately tried to

869
00:45:27.159 --> 00:45:31.639
<v Speaker 1>cover up the incident, especially given her positive reputation.

870
00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:35.880
<v Speaker 2>Right, but then, why would she have been seen at

871
00:45:36.039 --> 00:45:38.360
<v Speaker 2>the doc or where she was seen with like six

872
00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:40.519
<v Speaker 2>men or I guess some people said they weren't even

873
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:41.719
<v Speaker 2>certain it was her right.

874
00:45:41.719 --> 00:45:46.159
<v Speaker 1>Not even certain it was her. H Now, this story

875
00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:50.039
<v Speaker 1>could have very well been true except for one very big,

876
00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:54.599
<v Speaker 1>glaring issue. Mary's autopsy revealed that she was never pregnant

877
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:57.159
<v Speaker 1>in any way, shape or form, and her cause of

878
00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:00.320
<v Speaker 1>death was strangulation and there was nothing to show any

879
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:03.159
<v Speaker 1>sort of abortion or anything that he ever taken place.

880
00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:05.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so that just can't be then.

881
00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:11.039
<v Speaker 1>And lastly, that innkeeper, missus Lawson, while on her deathbed

882
00:46:11.559 --> 00:46:15.079
<v Speaker 1>years later after an accidental firearm after one of her

883
00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:20.360
<v Speaker 1>sons accidentally shot her, oh shit, she made a dying confession.

884
00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:22.039
<v Speaker 2>Uh oh.

885
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:26.599
<v Speaker 1>She claimed that on that fateful day, that fateful Sunday,

886
00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:30.880
<v Speaker 1>July twenty fifth, eighteen forty one, Mary had come to

887
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:35.239
<v Speaker 1>her in with that tall handsome individual, But that tall

888
00:46:35.239 --> 00:46:40.400
<v Speaker 1>handsome individual was a doctor, and Mary was with child.

889
00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:44.239
<v Speaker 1>From there, her story goes pretty similar to the last one,

890
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:49.559
<v Speaker 1>with an unsuccessful termination and the doctor fleeing from there.

891
00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:52.079
<v Speaker 1>It was her and her sons who were left to

892
00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:55.159
<v Speaker 1>dispose of Mary's remains, and they ended up planting the

893
00:46:55.199 --> 00:47:00.880
<v Speaker 1>belongings in the forest near their home. Miss Lawson died

894
00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:04.920
<v Speaker 1>shortly after this badside confession, and both of her sons

895
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:10.119
<v Speaker 1>deny this story, though the New York Tribune newspaper accepted

896
00:47:10.119 --> 00:47:13.760
<v Speaker 1>this confession. The case remains unsolved and the story is

897
00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:16.519
<v Speaker 1>chalked up to a dying woman's wild tale.

898
00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:22.360
<v Speaker 2>Huh okay that the two stories that seem to that

899
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:25.239
<v Speaker 2>people seem to be saying and that kind of seem

900
00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:28.679
<v Speaker 2>could have happened. But then the autopsy shows that she

901
00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:29.920
<v Speaker 2>was never pregnant, so.

902
00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:37.840
<v Speaker 1>Correct, wow wow, But also mind you, and I'm sure

903
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:42.280
<v Speaker 1>an autopsy would find a pregnancy, but I'm not certain

904
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:46.599
<v Speaker 1>on the medical practitioner's expertise on an autopsy in eighteen

905
00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:47.199
<v Speaker 1>forty one.

906
00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:50.840
<v Speaker 2>Either that's true, and she would have only been in

907
00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:51.880
<v Speaker 2>like her early twenties.

908
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:55.559
<v Speaker 1>Ay, I believe she was twenty yesh, maybe twenty one, I.

909
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:57.679
<v Speaker 2>Don't know, but yeah, brutal.

910
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:03.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So her story is on. However, she does live

911
00:48:03.079 --> 00:48:06.159
<v Speaker 1>on in more than one way. Aside from being labeled

912
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:11.239
<v Speaker 1>as the infamous cigar Girl, she lived to inspire one

913
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:16.159
<v Speaker 1>more man, Edgar Allan Poe, who also lived in the

914
00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:20.159
<v Speaker 1>eighteen hundreds with Mary, and he based his story The

915
00:48:20.199 --> 00:48:25.360
<v Speaker 1>Mystery of Mary Rogue on Mary's life and death, which

916
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:29.119
<v Speaker 1>he published one year after her death in eighteen forty two.

917
00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:33.920
<v Speaker 1>In doing so, he made sure that Mary's fame and

918
00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:37.360
<v Speaker 1>legacy would live on for many more generations to come.

919
00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:40.920
<v Speaker 1>And here we are, two hundred years later, almost still

920
00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:42.519
<v Speaker 1>talking about her story.

921
00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Honestly, I love that. That's really cool.

922
00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so Edgar Allan Poe did change a few details

923
00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:52.239
<v Speaker 1>in the story, but that story is very much so

924
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:56.800
<v Speaker 1>based on Mary Rogers. Wow, the cigar girl.

925
00:48:57.320 --> 00:48:59.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it is. I guess one positive is

926
00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:03.159
<v Speaker 2>that her story is really living on. But it's too

927
00:49:03.199 --> 00:49:05.840
<v Speaker 2>bad that no one knows what happened really.

928
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:07.119
<v Speaker 1>Right like that.

929
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:07.920
<v Speaker 2>I hate that.

930
00:49:08.599 --> 00:49:11.760
<v Speaker 1>And she seemed like she was such a nice woman too. Yeah,

931
00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:15.800
<v Speaker 1>she was so kind, dignified. She didn't really let this

932
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:18.760
<v Speaker 1>get to her. I mean, sometimes weight gets to an individual,

933
00:49:18.760 --> 00:49:23.360
<v Speaker 1>but she kept her her smile and she just lived.

934
00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and she thought through her decisions and stuff. It

935
00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:30.159
<v Speaker 2>seemed like too yeah right, she you know, when things

936
00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:32.599
<v Speaker 2>weren't really going quite well, she decided that she'll go

937
00:49:32.679 --> 00:49:35.440
<v Speaker 2>back and work with her mom and that would help.

938
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:39.079
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, I do think that there was an individual

939
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:42.320
<v Speaker 1>that she might have built up a reputation with at

940
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:50.000
<v Speaker 1>the cigar shop who became jealous of her engagement. And

941
00:49:50.079 --> 00:49:52.960
<v Speaker 1>I think that she felt she could trust this individual.

942
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:56.039
<v Speaker 1>Maybe they were going out for I don't know, lunch

943
00:49:56.119 --> 00:49:57.599
<v Speaker 1>or something like that, right, But.

944
00:49:57.639 --> 00:49:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Why wouldn't she have just told her fiance or.

945
00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Maybe she was having an affair with the individual too.

946
00:50:02.440 --> 00:50:05.039
<v Speaker 1>For one reason or another, there was something happening where

947
00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:08.760
<v Speaker 1>she felt she could trust this individual and they needed

948
00:50:08.760 --> 00:50:11.440
<v Speaker 1>to lie or make some something up where they weren't

949
00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:15.639
<v Speaker 1>telling what was going on. And I think in this situation,

950
00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:20.360
<v Speaker 1>she most likely would have been like, I can't do this.

951
00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:26.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm getting engaged, I'm getting married. Sorry, I'm not the

952
00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:30.159
<v Speaker 1>cigar girl anymore. I am moving on from that. And

953
00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:33.480
<v Speaker 1>this individual couldn't accept that and wanted her for himself.

954
00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:37.440
<v Speaker 1>And I do think this tall man with dark hair

955
00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:42.639
<v Speaker 1>was exactly that individual who took her life.

956
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:45.480
<v Speaker 2>He showed us true colors. Yeah, at some point.

957
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:49.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that there was a lot of anger

958
00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:52.880
<v Speaker 1>taken out on her because she would not accept them,

959
00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:55.519
<v Speaker 1>hence the beating and the final strangulation.

960
00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:59.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and even just the way the body was disposed

961
00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:00.840
<v Speaker 2>to is pretty brutal.

962
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:04.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's my theory. Do you have a theory?

963
00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:07.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, lots of times when you ask me

964
00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:10.800
<v Speaker 2>this at the end, I'm like still processing shit. But

965
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:14.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it was the fiance. I don't think

966
00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:19.679
<v Speaker 2>the mother of the fiance knew anything, to be honest. Oh, man,

967
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:24.480
<v Speaker 2>I do think someone I also, Okay, I do think

968
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:26.400
<v Speaker 2>your theory is very valid and makes sense. But I

969
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:28.679
<v Speaker 2>also think someone might have had an obsession with her

970
00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:33.840
<v Speaker 2>or something that they were manipulating her of sorts, and

971
00:51:33.880 --> 00:51:36.360
<v Speaker 2>that she ended up getting herself in, like too deep

972
00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:40.159
<v Speaker 2>to something that she couldn't get out of necessarily, which

973
00:51:40.280 --> 00:51:44.199
<v Speaker 2>kind of goes with your theory, I guess, right. So, yeah,

974
00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:46.840
<v Speaker 2>but I do think this person. I do think whoever

975
00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:48.760
<v Speaker 2>did this had a bit of an obsession with her

976
00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:50.480
<v Speaker 2>that she maybe didn't quite realize.

977
00:51:50.679 --> 00:51:54.880
<v Speaker 1>Agreed, Yeah, are cats going wild?

978
00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's that time a day.

979
00:51:57.159 --> 00:52:00.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, perfect timing. All right, Well, I'm curre some what

980
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:02.880
<v Speaker 1>your guys' theory is. So shoot us a message or

981
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:06.719
<v Speaker 1>something something or thumbing shoot the method to something. Shoot

982
00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:07.280
<v Speaker 1>us a message.

983
00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:08.639
<v Speaker 2>We've been talking too much today?

984
00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:10.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Cotton milth, I got a beer here that I've

985
00:52:10.519 --> 00:52:12.159
<v Speaker 1>hardly touched. Good job.

986
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:14.880
<v Speaker 2>This was actually very interesting story. All done.

987
00:52:14.920 --> 00:52:17.679
<v Speaker 1>It's a bit of a tail, but it's an interesting one.

988
00:52:17.719 --> 00:52:18.079
<v Speaker 2>It is.

989
00:52:18.119 --> 00:52:20.880
<v Speaker 1>It's very interesting, and I'm curious on what other people's

990
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:22.599
<v Speaker 1>theories are so shoot us a message on that.

991
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:24.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let us know what you think or put in

992
00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:25.760
<v Speaker 2>the comments or something.

993
00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:28.320
<v Speaker 1>Yep, we got posts on Facebook and Instagram. We've got

994
00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:29.920
<v Speaker 1>all our social links down below if you want to

995
00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:33.519
<v Speaker 1>check it out. Patreon included website you name it descriptions

996
00:52:33.559 --> 00:52:35.599
<v Speaker 1>down there. If you don't want to check them out,

997
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:37.960
<v Speaker 1>you can just hang out with us. Next podcast. That's

998
00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:41.840
<v Speaker 1>cool too. Yeah. Are a cat is literally like possessed?

999
00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:45.119
<v Speaker 2>Right? Yeah, we got there's a huge bang. We should

1000
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:45.840
<v Speaker 2>probably check that out.

1001
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Nicole's eyes just went like massively wide. Yeah, and our

1002
00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:52.239
<v Speaker 1>dogs are disturbed. Good job week.

1003
00:52:53.559 --> 00:52:57.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, honestly, thank you for being here and until next.

1004
00:52:57.519 --> 00:53:01.760
<v Speaker 1>Week, stay wicked or should I do the whole long

1005
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:02.239
<v Speaker 1>live thing?

1006
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Should we do it together?

1007
00:53:05.480 --> 00:53:09.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if I want to do it together? Okay,

1008
00:53:10.199 --> 00:53:23.199
<v Speaker 1>stay wicked? Is that good?

1009
00:53:24.039 --> 00:53:24.599
<v Speaker 2>That was great?

1010
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:25.119
<v Speaker 1>Okay,