Speaker 1: This is the baseline, discussing the hot button topics of
Speaker 1: the nb A. Welcome everybody, your tuned to the baseline.
Speaker 1: Cali Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA.
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Speaker 2: Man doing well. Excited to be here with you on
Speaker 2: the baseline. Yet again, we have a lot to discuss.
Speaker 2: A lot has happened since we last convened on our podcast.
Speaker 2: So we'll try to do a condensed, a bridge but
Speaker 2: very healthy and meaningful episode this week, as always, be.
Speaker 1: Abridged and healthy. Right feels like we were about to
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Speaker 1: www dot nineteen MediaGroup dot com. So, seaw, let's get
Speaker 1: right into it, man. So much is happening in the NBA.
Speaker 1: It's kind of even, you know, hard to keep your
Speaker 1: head still. It's constantly on a swivel when it comes
Speaker 1: to the storylines. And obviously the big storyline that I
Speaker 1: think really needs to you know, get a little teeth
Speaker 1: dig ourselves into here is regarding you know, Greg Popovich,
Speaker 1: arguably one of the greatest head coaches of all time.
Speaker 1: He is finally you know, decided to no longer fight
Speaker 1: that fight of trying to come back to coach. Obviously,
Speaker 1: people who have been paying attention to his circumstances health condition,
Speaker 1: suffered a major stroke and has been on the mend,
Speaker 1: and so basically, you know, all eyes were hopeful that
Speaker 1: he may come back to coaching, but he even he's
Speaker 1: realized that, you know, it's time for him to move on.
Speaker 1: He's not being transitioned to the president of basketball operations
Speaker 1: and a senior role. You know, he can't get more
Speaker 1: senior than than the dynasty that he built with the Spurs.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get your perspective on this show
Speaker 1: because I think we kind of knew that this was coming.
Speaker 1: I know that a lot of people were probably saying,
Speaker 1: maybe Pop has stayed in in the game a little
Speaker 1: bit longer than than than necessary, But we knew that
Speaker 1: this was coming. And I just think that it's great that,
Speaker 1: you know, while he is still healthy and still wants
Speaker 1: to be a part of the basketball space, that the
Speaker 1: San Antonio Spurs found a way for him to kind
Speaker 1: of exit this spar the stage of his life gracefully
Speaker 1: and transition him more, you know, into something that I
Speaker 1: think we's been clearly doing for quite some time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no there's no doubt about Pop's legacy, his
Speaker 2: meaning to the game, his meaning to san Antonio specifically,
Speaker 2: when you talk about somebody who was never going to
Speaker 2: get fired, you're talking about Greg Popovich. So we know.
Speaker 2: I think from the outside looking in that the Wemby
Speaker 2: introduction into the Spurs organization probably gave Pop a little
Speaker 2: bit more exuberant and want to kind of have the
Speaker 2: runway extend a little bit on his coaching career, but
Speaker 2: health would not permit for that. So san Antonio doing
Speaker 2: a right by a legacy and veteran and Hall of
Speaker 2: Fame individual and letting him go out on his shield
Speaker 2: in the way that he wants to still going up
Speaker 2: to the front office to be a part of the organization,
Speaker 2: not necessarily retiring, but doing what needs to be done
Speaker 2: to focus on himself and his immediate family, because his
Speaker 2: family needs. Basketball is cool at all, and we all
Speaker 2: love what we cover in the NBA, but nothing's more
Speaker 2: important than the family, and nothing more important than your
Speaker 2: health and you being here in essence to enjoy that family.
Speaker 2: So he's at a stage now where that makes the
Speaker 2: most amount of sense for him. I think everybody in
Speaker 2: the organization is aligned Wemby darn Fox, you know, Chris
Speaker 2: Paul even to a lesson degree. They understand what needs
Speaker 2: to be done here and will he'll be around in
Speaker 2: San Antonio, won't be around on some of those away games,
Speaker 2: and you know, we won't can see him on the
Speaker 2: sideland a way that we're used to. But I'm happy
Speaker 2: for him that he gets to do this in a
Speaker 2: way that makes sense, to protect his health and to
Speaker 2: be with his family first and foremost.
Speaker 1: I want to say that I'm actually this is an
Speaker 1: unsuspecting sacrifice that I think is being made here, not
Speaker 1: just by Greg Popovich, but you know, unknowingly. The timing
Speaker 1: of what he's doing here, I think really helps this
Speaker 1: kind of take pause on some of the drama that
Speaker 1: has surrounded, you know, the coaching atmosphere or the coaching
Speaker 1: ethos that we've experienced over the last couple of months.
Speaker 1: I really feel like Craig Popovich and Eric Spostra are
Speaker 1: the last quote unquote of that dying breed. You could
Speaker 1: probably throw Rick Carlisle in there, because I think his
Speaker 1: second stint with the Indiana Paces will serve him properly
Speaker 1: that if there are any changes that are going to
Speaker 1: take place for coaches who have had a lot of
Speaker 1: teeth in the game, who've shown a level of success,
Speaker 1: the organizations are going to do right by making sure
Speaker 1: that whether or not they land on their feet or
Speaker 1: wherever it is that they transition to, it won't be
Speaker 1: something that's being done just unceremoniously or in a way
Speaker 1: that really does a disservice to both the organization and
Speaker 1: also does a disservice to the legacy of the head coach.
Speaker 1: And I appreciate the fact that even though the San
Speaker 1: Antonio's first circumstance is not exactly like that, because it's
Speaker 1: the San Antonio Spurs, and because it's Great Popovich, and
Speaker 1: because there is such a long tenure of that Spur
Speaker 1: culture that is not being tarnished in the way that
Speaker 1: they're handling this, I think helps put a pause a
Speaker 1: little bit on so much of the negativity that has
Speaker 1: been surrounding the coaching carousel that's been happening so far
Speaker 1: this season in the NBA.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we'll and I say this with a
Speaker 2: certain level of confidence, you know, because we're both air
Speaker 2: quote middle age or whatever. So we'll see what happens
Speaker 2: after our time as well. But I don't know that
Speaker 2: there'll be another Pop, not in terms of another coach
Speaker 2: who will be able to pass as records in terms
Speaker 2: of wins, but somebody that will be with the organization
Speaker 2: for basically for the entirety of their career. The league
Speaker 2: has transitioned to a way where we want instant gratification
Speaker 2: and we don't give people fifteen twenty twenty five year
Speaker 2: runways to be with an organization. It just doesn't happen.
Speaker 2: So save Spolstra, and we know we talk a little
Speaker 2: bit about how that situation is going in Miami, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, And I don't know what happened once the
Speaker 2: Riley regime kind of goes on, you know, and retires
Speaker 2: as well. But I don't know that we'll see another
Speaker 2: pop somebody, just you know that many years in consistency,
Speaker 2: whether they are winning, middle ground, losing, rebuilding, they stuck
Speaker 2: with him and he was a culture of that organization
Speaker 2: in a very real and meaningful way. Now passing this
Speaker 2: on to miss Johnson, and you know, we'll see where
Speaker 2: that goes for him. I think he, you know, had
Speaker 2: a good year as a first year head coach. But
Speaker 2: I just feel like, truly we'll never see another one
Speaker 2: like pop because the league just isn't formatted in a
Speaker 2: way to allow for that level of longevity in that
Speaker 2: specific position.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I just think that when it comes to,
Speaker 1: you know, the the way we're going to start looking
Speaker 1: at miss Johnson, we would have to give him leeway, right,
Speaker 1: we have to give him that opportunity. I think he
Speaker 1: did an excellent job under the circumstances. And I think
Speaker 1: that level of confidence that you know, Popovich should have
Speaker 1: in making sure that he is basically handing the reins
Speaker 1: over to him, I think you also have to look
Speaker 1: it well to the fan base. The fan base I
Speaker 1: think really understands you have a generational talent. I think
Speaker 1: they want to be supportive of Mitch Johnson's belief in
Speaker 1: the future of what the spurs is going to look
Speaker 1: like with wembin Yama. And I think the savviness of
Speaker 1: Greg Popovich, you know, and what he brings, that aura
Speaker 1: that he brings, I think lends him well that he's
Speaker 1: got a little bit of of of a clearing space
Speaker 1: for them to go out there and succeed. Listen, Johnson
Speaker 1: made his bones right. And I think if wee Benyama
Speaker 1: is on board any of the other prospects that the
Speaker 1: Spurs are going to be looking at in order to
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, bring them along the fold to
Speaker 1: help round out that roster, they're all on board. I
Speaker 1: think he's you know, he's going to be in good hands.
Speaker 1: And again, the Spurs, despite something like this, will still
Speaker 1: be in contention, right like, they're going to be the
Speaker 1: conversation of the off season. They're going to be the
Speaker 1: conversation of what level of improvement they're going to make
Speaker 1: into the off season, and we're going to have to
Speaker 1: pay you know, a lot of attention. One thing, I'll
Speaker 1: say this before we you know, move on to you know,
Speaker 1: the rest of our show. I just love the fact
Speaker 1: that Tim Duncan and Manor Genobli came out there with
Speaker 1: Papovich and in Popovich style, you know, he's like, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm no longer the head coach and then you know
Speaker 1: he just kind of unveils the jacket and says, I'm
Speaker 1: the Hefe. Now you can call me the Hefe right
Speaker 1: like that. You know, I only dream of having certain
Speaker 1: head coaches have that kind of flair, who's being able
Speaker 1: to flip that persona, that stigma that he's carried that
Speaker 1: he's just you know, non conversational, he's non approachable. Everything
Speaker 1: about him shows you the evolution of a man and
Speaker 1: the game of basketball. While it still stays that way.
Speaker 1: He himself has never been a about him. It's been
Speaker 1: a brud reproach, and I think it's just great to
Speaker 1: see that he has put himself again in that space
Speaker 1: where you know, he's gracefully aging, but he's also gracefully
Speaker 1: showing as what the game of basketball has done for
Speaker 1: him and what he's doing for it in return.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the driver human and the deadpen. I know there's
Speaker 2: been a lot of people, including to myself, you know,
Speaker 2: been afraid and well, I don't have like these great
Speaker 2: and gargantuan Papa Bitch stories because I'm not that season
Speaker 2: of reporter. But I've been in rooms, you know, in
Speaker 2: a press conference where he is and yeah, I was
Speaker 2: afraid to ask a question. But at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, he's still incredibly humid, and that's the thing
Speaker 2: that he didn't always show to everybody all the time,
Speaker 2: but that was really really relevant and apparent. I think
Speaker 2: when it mattered most, and he spoke out on a
Speaker 2: lot of cultural and various issues, you know, when it
Speaker 2: came to how our country was being run at various
Speaker 2: times as well too, to kind of show the type
Speaker 2: of individual and humanitarian that he really is. Like I said,
Speaker 2: twenty nine seasons, five championships, five championships, fourteen and twenty
Speaker 2: two wins, there's no other like Pop. So we salute
Speaker 2: you on an amazing career. San Antonio spurs an amazing
Speaker 2: organization and what he does now is going into that
Speaker 2: front office role. I'm sure that will still be at
Speaker 2: the level of excellence that he only the great Papa Bitch,
Speaker 2: Great Papa, Great Papa Bitch can deliver.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just gonna miss some of that dry humor times.
Speaker 1: He just won't be in front of the camera nearly
Speaker 1: as much, but it was always Instagram. You're dune to
Speaker 1: the base, You're dune to the Baselin Galli Warrant show
Speaker 1: discussing the hot button topics of the NBA coming out.
Speaker 1: We're gonna give our perspective what's been going on first
Speaker 1: round impressions. You know, teams have obviously been taken off
Speaker 1: the board, off the chessboard, and you know what are
Speaker 1: what our expectations are for the next round. Is just
Speaker 1: so much going on with the NBA, so you gotta
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Speaker 1: Run your game coming up, Shaw not get into the
Speaker 1: first round impressions. Don't want to miss it Here on
Speaker 1: the baseline. We are back Cali Warrenshaw Baseline NBA Podcast.
Speaker 1: Time for us to get into our first round impressions
Speaker 1: of the NBA Playoffs. Shaw look it wasn't too too surprising.
Speaker 1: I think when we made our predictions as it pertains
Speaker 1: to who was going to be coming out of the
Speaker 1: first round of the playoffs, maybe a little bit of
Speaker 1: shake up or maybe you know, may have missed a
Speaker 1: tari here there on wins losses. But I think the
Speaker 1: bigger storyline that has to be discussed is how the
Speaker 1: teams were exited. And I think two teams really kind
Speaker 1: of stick out and resonate with me more than anything.
Speaker 1: When I think about how the Los Angeles Clippers and
Speaker 1: how the Milwaukee Bucks were eliminated in the playoffs, I
Speaker 1: to me believe that those are two teams people need
Speaker 1: to pay attention to when it comes to what the
Speaker 1: offseason expectations might be, what the murmurs and rumblings are
Speaker 1: going to sound like. And it it's not so much
Speaker 1: that I'm thinking that there's going to be drastic, drastic changes,
Speaker 1: but I think the way that these two teams performed
Speaker 1: in the playoffs, how the circumstances played themselves out, I
Speaker 1: think now has ramped up a lot more fervor about
Speaker 1: something needing to be done for both of those organizations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we said even off air, we won't get
Speaker 2: to top Sea Ish, but at the same time, it
Speaker 2: needs to be discussed. So you're picking them out. I'm
Speaker 2: actually going to not necessarily dodge your question, but I'm
Speaker 2: gonna throw a team that I didn't expect to be
Speaker 2: out as quickly and in the fashion in that is.
Speaker 2: And then that's the Lakers. I think I'm disappointed, you
Speaker 2: know when that so the Clippers, Hey, they drew us
Speaker 2: in once again, you know what I mean, darkness to
Speaker 2: my old friend, like, here we go again. And while
Speaker 2: they had very every opportunity to win that series, they
Speaker 2: blew literally two games in that series and could have
Speaker 2: won that series and six you know, the miraculous you know,
Speaker 2: the dunk from from on High with Aaron Gordon, Like,
Speaker 2: There's just so many things that went wrong for that
Speaker 2: Clippers team when it comes down to it. But to me,
Speaker 2: the Lakers are probably the more the most disappointing story
Speaker 2: in the first round. And I'll only qualify it by
Speaker 2: this because I think when the Luka Dakis trade originally happened,
Speaker 2: Russia like, okay, well, this is a trade for the future.
Speaker 2: And then they played, you know, three weeks of pretty
Speaker 2: really pretty impressive basketball with the swarming defense that she
Speaker 2: thought was going to translate, and it did not translate,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean as the jen and sharpup Will,
Speaker 2: I know, he's kind of a person you want to
Speaker 2: talk about in the in the public public spaces right now. Well,
Speaker 2: Lakers in five in terms of being out in five,
Speaker 2: and that's a very very interesting situation that I expect
Speaker 2: to have to be having at this stage of of
Speaker 2: of the season. But if you flip that over to
Speaker 2: to Milwaukee, it's not so much that they got beat
Speaker 2: by Indiana. It's the aspect of Dame you know, getting
Speaker 2: the Achilles. Now that's going to cost him a good majority,
Speaker 2: if not all, of next year as well, and that
Speaker 2: forces Milwaukee decisions now about Giannis and his future within
Speaker 2: that organization. So what shakeup seems to be coming in
Speaker 2: a real and significant way that will literally transform the league.
Speaker 2: If Yannis asked to be out of Milwaukee, that changes
Speaker 2: the landscape of whatever team he goes to and has
Speaker 2: deep level ramifications throughout the course of the NBA.
Speaker 1: All Right, I'm gonna put it like this, because, like
Speaker 1: you said, we're not trying to get you know, our
Speaker 1: top s ish with our assessment of what happened in
Speaker 1: the first round playoffs. But the reason why I particularly
Speaker 1: spoke about the Clippers and the Bucks in simultaneously is
Speaker 1: because on one hand, we're gonna be asking the question
Speaker 1: about whether or not Jannis just wants to be in
Speaker 1: this environment any longer, if whether or not he feels
Speaker 1: like his time has come playing for the Milwaukee Bucks.
Speaker 1: That it's not to say that he doesn't love the
Speaker 1: Milwaukee Bucks, doesn't love the fan basis, but let's just
Speaker 1: keep it a buck right. The Milwaukee Bucks have shown
Speaker 1: that they have literally taken a step back as far
Speaker 1: as the way that that roster is constructed and what
Speaker 1: you're extracting and getting out of it. And I think
Speaker 1: a lot of it, too, has been the politics of
Speaker 1: how the Milwaukee Bucks has gone through this process of
Speaker 1: putting that roster together, putting the coaching staff together. I
Speaker 1: think it just gets to a point when you have
Speaker 1: a championship caliber player, a player who has basically put
Speaker 1: an organization a culture on your shoulders, you no longer
Speaker 1: can continue to keep doing this because unless something changes
Speaker 1: at the top, or someone's taking what he's saying seriously,
Speaker 1: valuing where he's coming from about his work ethic, his style,
Speaker 1: his drive is not being matched with the people you're
Speaker 1: bringing to him. That's going to send him somewhere else. Right,
Speaker 1: So I say that to say something needs to happen
Speaker 1: about the coaching situation, because you can't tell me that
Speaker 1: the rosters you had last year with that same head
Speaker 1: coach and they've now again been exited. And I say
Speaker 1: this tongue in cheek to say, I appreciate, I love
Speaker 1: and will always respect the head coach, but come on now, seriously,
Speaker 1: And so now I take this all the way across
Speaker 1: the states to the Los Angeles Clippers, and here's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's not that you get rid of Tyron Lou,
Speaker 1: but I really think you do have to look at
Speaker 1: what kind of players does Tyron Lou want and need
Speaker 1: that he can get the best out of what you
Speaker 1: saw in what he's been doing the last few years.
Speaker 1: We've been saying this for a long time. Shaw. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it's great that the organization goes out and just gets
Speaker 1: players and just say hey, we're going to put you,
Speaker 1: We're going to give you the best roster possible, and
Speaker 1: then you see how that roster executes, especially in situations
Speaker 1: like what we just saw in the first round of
Speaker 1: the playoffs, and you have to say to yourself, is
Speaker 1: that really the way that we want to go about
Speaker 1: doing it. Maybe we do need to lean in on
Speaker 1: how a tyrone lu coaches up his team, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. And then when you have to be
Speaker 1: dependent on your star players, recognizing that your star players
Speaker 1: will only get you to a certain point. It's that
Speaker 1: other aspect of the coaching, right like how he influences
Speaker 1: the zoo Bots, how he influences those other guys and
Speaker 1: things of that nature. And to me, I just saw
Speaker 1: where to your point, those opportunities that presented itself, where
Speaker 1: you're playing against veteran laden teams like the Denver Nuggets,
Speaker 1: a veteran Layden team like the Indiana Pacer who fresh
Speaker 1: came off of getting to the Eastern Conference finals, you
Speaker 1: just don't take those type of matchups lightly, especially when
Speaker 1: you know that when who you're playing against arguably is
Speaker 1: going to have mismatched situations kind of come you know,
Speaker 1: come to fruition. I just found it kind of you
Speaker 1: know interesting. You saw the contrast in the in mentalities
Speaker 1: about how these these teams offered itself. You know. So
Speaker 1: that was just my take from from what I saw
Speaker 1: from that first round of the teams that disappointed me
Speaker 1: the most.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see where there's disappointment in that, and
Speaker 2: I think for me, there's a certain level of respect
Speaker 2: I have in losing to Joker, all right. I just think,
Speaker 2: you know, despite their transgressions and changing coaches right before
Speaker 2: the end of the season and all of that, Jokers
Speaker 2: bought it in a way that we haven't really seen before.
Speaker 2: And a seven game loss, although the seventh game was
Speaker 2: pretty embarrassing, I think is less of an indictment on
Speaker 2: Lou than it is the the opponent in which they played.
Speaker 2: In addition to Lou having to manage this situation with
Speaker 2: Kawhi being in and out of the line up for
Speaker 2: the last you know, three four years and then now
Speaker 2: finally this year, he's healthy to the latter part when
Speaker 2: it matters most. But they ran into a team that
Speaker 2: quite frankly, had more continuity and was able to, you know,
Speaker 2: get it done with the best player in the NBA.
Speaker 2: So I think the way they lost, while while very
Speaker 2: disappointing and they had their chances, I'm still giving Lou specifically,
Speaker 2: maybe a little bit more of a runway to like,
Speaker 2: all right, well, can you ever get people to be
Speaker 2: healthy there? And well, I think the answer to that
Speaker 2: is no, Like we know that, we know Kawhi is
Speaker 2: never going to play sixty or sixty five games in
Speaker 2: a season again, like, that's not going to happen. He's
Speaker 2: going to be in the thirty to forty range and
Speaker 2: then hopefully you know he's healthy for the playoffs. The
Speaker 2: question then comes about with hardened and that, so I
Speaker 2: don't lose done a really good job, and I would be,
Speaker 2: I'd be. I just wouldn't want to kind of look
Speaker 2: at him as the reason for any of the of
Speaker 2: the loss here as much as I think the overall
Speaker 2: kind of not necessarily the roster construction, but the reliance
Speaker 2: on the roster itself and understanding who they really are
Speaker 2: was why what I said in the beginning in the
Speaker 2: middle part of our year when I was like, hey,
Speaker 2: they need the reality stone because this is not a
Speaker 2: team that's going to be able to get it done.
Speaker 2: But you know, I appreciate the Clippers fighting hard great.
Speaker 1: I will say, though, sorry to interrupt you, I will say, though,
Speaker 1: give credit to the Denver Nuggets, right because maybe this
Speaker 1: was the exact matchup they needed to really kind of
Speaker 1: get it right and get it all together given the
Speaker 1: tumultuous season that they've endured the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: Right Like, let's not forget they're not playing they're not
Speaker 1: playing under the same head coad coach, right, and the togetherness,
Speaker 1: the cohesiveness of that team, to me still is a
Speaker 1: work in progress. But for a first round matchup, a
Speaker 1: team like the Clippers could have very easily had upset
Speaker 1: that could have till the end. To your point, there
Speaker 1: were games that the Clippers should have won in that series.
Speaker 1: I mean, essentially they probably could have been going to
Speaker 1: the next round. I think to what I was saying,
Speaker 1: And again I'm not trying to put it on Tyron
Speaker 1: Lou but I do think that I think, like like
Speaker 1: when we just finished talking about Greg Popovich, some coaches
Speaker 1: have to have a turning point about the way they
Speaker 1: go about their business, right Like, you're not handed the
Speaker 1: same kind of Cleveland Warriors team that you got when
Speaker 1: you won your championship, right, and you may not even
Speaker 1: have the same type of team that you're working with
Speaker 1: what you've had with the Clippers when you had Paul
Speaker 1: George and Kawhi Leonard, Right. I just feel like I
Speaker 1: would have probably loved to have seen a different version
Speaker 1: of Tyron lou right, one that actually may put you know,
Speaker 1: a guy like James Harden on ice a little bit like, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: your numbers were great, but it troubles me that you
Speaker 1: only took eight shots in a game seven situation and
Speaker 1: you're arguably one of the best players that's still supposed
Speaker 1: to be in a game. How does that happen? How
Speaker 1: does that happen? You know what I mean? Like, I
Speaker 1: want to hear coaches speak to that rather than kind
Speaker 1: of biting the bullet, so to speak, and saying, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just you know, just the cars it
Speaker 1: in play, right, or you know, pointing it off on
Speaker 1: something that clearly like it shouldn't be something that is
Speaker 1: only being kind of articulated by the media right when
Speaker 1: we clearly see right like, hey man, if your guys
Speaker 1: checked out, your guy's not there, then you know what,
Speaker 1: you sit them down and you put somebody in there
Speaker 1: who's going to show what it is that like that
Speaker 1: that you put all this effort in coaching these guys
Speaker 1: that even get them in this place position. So again,
Speaker 1: like I you know, I'm not again, I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to criticize Tyron lou but I'm saying, like, at what
Speaker 1: point do we get to see them get to that
Speaker 1: turning point? You know what I'm saying, Like we've seen
Speaker 1: Greg Popovich at a turning point, We've seen Eric Spolstra
Speaker 1: at a turning point. And I think this is why
Speaker 1: we say they're among the great coaches in the game
Speaker 1: of basketball, because they don't you see where they've made
Speaker 1: those changes, where they've implemented things differently. And I'll speak
Speaker 1: to this again because we're talking about first round impressions.
Speaker 1: This to me also brings in to question. You know,
Speaker 1: as much as I admire and I appreciate what jab
Speaker 1: Vickerstaff did for this Detroit Pistons team, again, you know,
Speaker 1: to you have this opportunity where you're really helping to
Speaker 1: show people the evolution of you as a coach, especially
Speaker 1: after what you're seeing the Cleveland Cavaliers do. And this
Speaker 1: was a prime situation where you had an opportunity to
Speaker 1: again catapult that Detroit is like show you know that
Speaker 1: you're even better than a better head coach than Tom
Speaker 1: Thibodeau and you make critical mistakes down the stretch that
Speaker 1: kind of you know, we're not talking about it because
Speaker 1: they got eliminated, but I do think that the Pistons, again,
Speaker 1: they could have had the opportunity to put themselves in
Speaker 1: that position. I think it disappointed me with the way
Speaker 1: that they approach things, knowing that they had that game
Speaker 1: six in hand and they didn't make adjustments. So, you know, again,
Speaker 1: like we're talking about all of the you know, head
Speaker 1: coaches and things of that nature and not trying to
Speaker 1: you know, put a stink on it, you know, sort
Speaker 1: of sort of speak. But at the same time, I'm
Speaker 1: just saying that, like this again was a master class
Speaker 1: and recognizing, you know, the differences of what can tilt
Speaker 1: a series. You know, if you're not making those necessary adjustments,
Speaker 1: or you're not putting your team in the best position
Speaker 1: possible to win, and you're working with players that again,
Speaker 1: you know, if you know who they are and what
Speaker 1: they are, do you continue to keep trying to ride
Speaker 1: out on the hopes that they're going to be better
Speaker 1: than what you've already expected or what you've already seen
Speaker 1: them present to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, other teams that we mentioned. You know, when you
Speaker 2: talk about the rounds, the first round fallen, I'd say
Speaker 2: the Clippers clearly, because they literally blew two games, probably
Speaker 2: feel like they should most likely be in the second round. Houston.
Speaker 2: You could maybe make that argument for as well, to
Speaker 2: a lesser degree, although they did get to a Game seven.
Speaker 2: I feel like the Warriors took their foots off the
Speaker 2: gas and that series, especially in games five and six.
Speaker 2: But to me, the interesting thing, well, the pisses lost
Speaker 2: in six. They're they're they're not the better team.
Speaker 1: They lost. Let me just say that they're not the
Speaker 1: better team, however, But which is why was so important
Speaker 1: that JB. Bickerstaff has his imprint, because it was going
Speaker 1: to take that if you weren't gonna you're not getting
Speaker 1: that herculean effort from Kate Cunningham. You know what I'm
Speaker 1: saying this is his first year.
Speaker 2: Is that they for for all intentive purposes, like they
Speaker 2: got screwed in one of the games, right with I
Speaker 2: think that was Game three where the ref missed a
Speaker 2: call on Tim Hardaway or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2: So fine, right, so they blow that game or they
Speaker 2: lose that game because of a non call, per se
Speaker 2: you assume Hardaway goes and hits at least two out
Speaker 2: of those three to give them the win there, and
Speaker 2: then you're riding in game six. You know what, was
Speaker 2: they up seven with two and a half minutes to
Speaker 2: play and they end up losing that game. That's the
Speaker 2: aspect of you know, being young. You can go back
Speaker 2: to all the way in game one where they got
Speaker 2: rocked out in the fourth quarter, just turned the ball over,
Speaker 2: turn the ball over and it's like a twenty one
Speaker 2: to ohero run. I think in the fourth quarter that took
Speaker 2: them essentially out of that game that they were winning
Speaker 2: in that as well too. So we want to understand
Speaker 2: and respect the process because I think we both said
Speaker 2: with Houston and Detroit, well they got to come in
Speaker 2: here and get their lumps. They got their lumps, but
Speaker 2: they also feel like, well, we were closer than we
Speaker 2: probably should have been, and so those lumps are even
Speaker 2: harder to swallow now because they could have won. They
Speaker 2: literally could have won and been in the next round.
Speaker 2: And I know pisses lost in six, but they were
Speaker 2: competitive in these games and really could have turned things around.
Speaker 2: So to me, it's not disheartening per se, but the Clippers,
Speaker 2: the Pistons, and the Rockets all probably feel like they
Speaker 2: could they should be still playing basketball right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, I think that to me is what
Speaker 1: has really been impressive. Like you look at the series,
Speaker 1: you know, the way the series has ended, right you see,
Speaker 1: you know, for two, you know, for one, for one,
Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. I just think that the
Speaker 1: games have been a lot more competitive then I think
Speaker 1: most people you know are are are you know, looking
Speaker 1: on the surface towards and then what I think highlights
Speaker 1: a lot of that what we're talking about with the
Speaker 1: first round impressions and the frustration. So I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: back to your Los Angeles Lakers. I know we're bouncing around.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back to the point of the Los
Speaker 1: Angeles Lakers. The reason why it would not disappoint me
Speaker 1: to see that the Los Angeles Lakers got eliminated is
Speaker 1: because this isn't this, This to me is a quote
Speaker 1: unquote coming to Jesus moment for Luka Doncic. I think
Speaker 1: much has been talked about, you know, everybody saying that he,
Speaker 1: you know, the worst defender in the NBA. I'm not
Speaker 1: even going to get into all of the hyperbole, because
Speaker 1: I think a little bit is too much over the top.
Speaker 1: To me, this is not just about Luka Donkic's lack
Speaker 1: of defense. It is Luka Donkic's lack of humility to
Speaker 1: where he is as a star athlete, what he means
Speaker 1: to the organization, and what he means to the brand
Speaker 1: of the game. Right. So, in other words, if we
Speaker 1: want to go old school and look at players that
Speaker 1: you love to hate, right, how many of them complain
Speaker 1: as much as he does to the refs? How many
Speaker 1: of them does you know he basically say, no, matter
Speaker 1: what happens, I'm not changing the style in the way
Speaker 1: that I play my game of basketball, even when teams
Speaker 1: are forcing you to have to do that and you
Speaker 1: decides still not to do it. Right, In some ways,
Speaker 1: it almost looks like you're just middle fingering every conceivable
Speaker 1: idea that you don't want to evolve until you're ready
Speaker 1: to evolve. And that's great, that's all well and good,
Speaker 1: But I don't know how you can continue to do that.
Speaker 1: If you're going to play next to a Lebron James,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you can continue to do that
Speaker 1: and think that Rob Polenka is going to be able
Speaker 1: to put together a championship caliber roster that you're going
Speaker 1: to be able to help elevate and create and make
Speaker 1: better for because you're going to ultimately need somebody that's
Speaker 1: going to augment the things that you're supposed to get
Speaker 1: better at doing or evolve at doing. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if you're willing to want to do that. And
Speaker 1: I think that's the greatest conundrum right Like Lakers fans
Speaker 1: are going to be cool with this. He's a great superstar,
Speaker 1: but are they going to continue to tolerate how he
Speaker 1: goes about being that superstar? You know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: there was no way Magic Johnson could have continued to
Speaker 1: be the kind of player that he was next to
Speaker 1: a Kareem Abdul Jabbar. When Kareem Abdul Jabbar showed you
Speaker 1: he was the standard, at some point, Magic Johnson had
Speaker 1: to e And at that point when Kareem recognized that,
Speaker 1: they learned how to play together and they went out
Speaker 1: and win championships. You don't have the luxury like that
Speaker 1: with the Lebron James because his window isn't like that,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. But if we want to
Speaker 1: kind of Liken the Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul Jabbar experience.
Speaker 1: With what we're seeing from Aluka Donkic, this would be
Speaker 1: the coming to Jesus moment that I think you want
Speaker 1: to see. And I say that because that's the same
Speaker 1: case with a lot of the players that were playing
Speaker 1: in this first round. Like you look at the James Hardens, right,
Speaker 1: you look at the Kawhi Leonards. These are some kind
Speaker 1: of come to Jesus moment. Can you continue to get
Speaker 1: away with doing what you're doing because you were making
Speaker 1: a lot of money and the game is the way
Speaker 1: it's situated. Now that you're getting knocked out of the
Speaker 1: first round and we're good with the new generation of
Speaker 1: talent that's there, I don't know if you have the
Speaker 1: luxury to continue to keep operating in that same space.
Speaker 2: Yeah. For me, the Lakers is it's a collective loss.
Speaker 2: And I know everything was pointed at Luca and you know,
Speaker 2: ergo Lebron not scoring in the fourth quarters of games
Speaker 2: and so forth. But also you forget your j Redicks
Speaker 2: on that sidelines as a rookie year rookie head coach,
Speaker 2: and had he made rookie mistakes, you know, think back
Speaker 2: to Missoulu in the first year, you know, getting in
Speaker 2: that job in the wake of the Udoka scandal and
Speaker 2: just being completely obstinate, just like I have to do
Speaker 2: it this way, and not understanding the need to adjust
Speaker 2: and you know, really tried truly game manage. And I
Speaker 2: think Reddick came into this situation and made some full
Speaker 2: pause and a lot was made about, you know, the
Speaker 2: the no rest in game five, sorry in game four
Speaker 2: where he rescued, played only the five starters for the
Speaker 2: entirety of the second half and they ran out of gas.
Speaker 2: And you can say that's a rookie mistake, but that's
Speaker 2: who he trusted. So then that's also then you know,
Speaker 2: the majority of the roster, the roster construction wasn't really
Speaker 2: what you wanted it to be. You can talk about
Speaker 2: the about the Mark Williams thing not being there and
Speaker 2: what that would have did in that specific series, But
Speaker 2: to me, I'm just saying there's a there's a lot
Speaker 2: of collective blame to go around with that Lakers losing
Speaker 2: in five, And while I'm still surprise that happened, I
Speaker 2: want to give credit to Minnesota and Anthony Edwards for
Speaker 2: being able to get it done, and Rudy Gobert playing
Speaker 2: the game of this absolute friggin life, you know, in
Speaker 2: game five, you know, with the twenty twenty to send
Speaker 2: the Lakers home or to keep the Lakers home, I
Speaker 2: guess in that in that actual instance there. But this
Speaker 2: first round has brought on a lot of nuance and
Speaker 2: a lot of great experiences as well too. And while
Speaker 2: we transition quickly off the Lakers, and you know, we
Speaker 2: already talked about Miami and Memphis because we gave them
Speaker 2: autopsy reports as well too, I did want to shout out,
Speaker 2: not necessarily shout out, but I did want to mention,
Speaker 2: you know, the Orlando magic here. They weren't where they
Speaker 2: expected to be, right, they weren't where they expected to be,
Speaker 2: but they were physical. I think they forced the Celtics
Speaker 2: to play differently, and so credit to Celtics for learning
Speaker 2: to play differently and winning in a different fashion than
Speaker 2: they're used to. But Orlando kind of dictated that series
Speaker 2: with their style, and despite you know, losing in five games,
Speaker 2: being able to dictate the temple is something that not
Speaker 2: a lot of teams, especially younger teams, have the ability
Speaker 2: to do. And they they chained the playstyle of that
Speaker 2: series by by playing hard nose and physical defense kind
Speaker 2: of throughout it. So shadow Orlando and Jamal Moseley and
Speaker 2: what that was. What a truly t multual season for
Speaker 2: them to Riddled with injuries, they have a lot of
Speaker 2: work to do, but hopefully they will get some guys back,
Speaker 2: you know, and see if they will be above that
Speaker 2: playing line going.
Speaker 1: Into next year. Yeah, and listen, we'll have our opportunity
Speaker 1: to autops the Orlando Magic. But as I was just mentioning,
Speaker 1: you know to you before, gritty performance, absolutely gritty performance
Speaker 1: by the Orlando Magic. And I think the one thing
Speaker 1: too is you know, when you play, when you play
Speaker 1: the defending champs, right, you could probably hang your hat
Speaker 1: on the fact that, you know, yeah, we kept the
Speaker 1: games close, We should have probably won a couple of
Speaker 1: those games, whatever the case may be. That's fine. But
Speaker 1: when you play against the team and you realize that
Speaker 1: that team is taking you seriously, right, and you frustrated them,
Speaker 1: you you basically force them to have to you know
Speaker 1: that you've you're playing the best of the best, because
Speaker 1: they're gonna go out and they're going to do it.
Speaker 1: They're not gonna they're not going to continue to complain
Speaker 1: throughout the course of the series. I gonna wait until
Speaker 1: you know it's an elimination game or anything like that.
Speaker 1: And I think if you're to Orlando Magic, you have
Speaker 1: to look at what was your weakness, what was your
Speaker 1: what was what was it that kept you from finding
Speaker 1: that next gear or getting over the top. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, And it's the ability to get clean looks,
Speaker 1: you know, shooting the basketball and shooting basketball with the
Speaker 1: level of consistency and efficiency. Like, if you're gonna play
Speaker 1: that style of basketball, if you're gonna play that way
Speaker 1: where you're limiting possessions, you have got to make the
Speaker 1: shots that you have access to, right And when you're
Speaker 1: playing against a good team like the like the Boston
Speaker 1: Celtics in that they have the ability to rebound, that
Speaker 1: means they're going to minimize your opportunities to get those shots.
Speaker 1: And I think to me, again, if people were paying
Speaker 1: attention to this and not looking at just what the
Speaker 1: series total was, you know, winning four to two or
Speaker 1: you know, losing for one or whatever the case may be,
Speaker 1: you were seeing a lot of competitive play there. And
Speaker 1: you're also looking at it and saying, is this team capable,
Speaker 1: if fully healthy, replicating what they showed you that they
Speaker 1: were capable of doing in this season's playoffs. And I
Speaker 1: can definitely tell you that there are a couple of
Speaker 1: teams that I feel a lot more confident that when
Speaker 1: they get their roster together, they'll head the executives actually
Speaker 1: start making the necessary moves to improve. You know, they
Speaker 1: don't have to go crazy, but they definitely have to
Speaker 1: improve on some of those elements, and some of those
Speaker 1: things I can see in confidence that if they get
Speaker 1: into the playoffs again next year, who knows, the matchup
Speaker 1: might favor them a whole lot better and a whole
Speaker 1: lot more than what with the outcome was for them
Speaker 1: in this year's playoffs.
Speaker 2: So well, why don't we close or pseudo clothes on this?
Speaker 2: And it's not necessarily who you got? Because I have
Speaker 2: all kinds of things racing in my head right now,
Speaker 2: right because I think we've done all who you Got
Speaker 2: before with Paulo. But I'm intrigued, you know, with the
Speaker 2: with the who you got? Of of the young teams
Speaker 2: that were eliminated in this first round, who would you
Speaker 2: most likely rather be? And some of that is going
Speaker 2: to take into context what conferences are in because the
Speaker 2: West is clearly deeper than the Eustern conference.
Speaker 1: But would you.
Speaker 2: Rather be the Young Pistons, the Young Magic, the Young Rockets,
Speaker 2: or uh the Yeah that's it right, yeah, yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 2: the Rockets, the Pistons, or or the the Magic. Sorry,
Speaker 2: I'm getting all the tongue tied here, Rockets.
Speaker 1: Of those would you prefer to be? I would prefer
Speaker 1: to be the Magic. I know, I've been a staunch
Speaker 1: Pistons advocate, and I love Kate Canningham. I'd solely just
Speaker 1: drop on Kate if I could. But if you're tasking
Speaker 1: me to say which team am I going to ride with,
Speaker 1: that can probably have them, like, can do the most
Speaker 1: damage in the next couple of years, that combination of
Speaker 1: Wagner and bon Caro. And let me tell you something,
Speaker 1: bon Caro was so impressive in the series against the
Speaker 1: Boston Celtics. I mean he was he was basically war
Speaker 1: machine literally like he was. He had he was in
Speaker 1: his bag against a very good Boston Celtics defense. And
Speaker 1: I don't care what anybody wants to try to convince
Speaker 1: me to tell me otherwise. Bon Caro to me, was
Speaker 1: the MVP of the first round of the playoffs in
Speaker 1: that he knew that he was basically up against it,
Speaker 1: like you know Wagner. You know, there's undone the level
Speaker 1: of Wagner. I don't know how great he can become,
Speaker 1: but the level of that I saw from bon Caro,
Speaker 1: you know, especially after what happened to him last year,
Speaker 1: you know, and how his you know, he got exited,
Speaker 1: you could clearly tell that he grew from that experience.
Speaker 1: And I would say this, man, if he didn't suffer
Speaker 1: the injury that he suffered in the beginning of the
Speaker 1: regular season, who knows how prime he would have been,
Speaker 1: like his numbers and everything like that going into this series.
Speaker 1: That could probably have even more impact on the influence
Speaker 1: that you would have had in the outcome of that series. Again,
Speaker 1: Bonkara just just totally impressed me. He's a scary dude. Bro,
Speaker 1: scary dude.
Speaker 2: I like that. I mean, I think you're saying that
Speaker 2: with your just for sure. The notion of Detroit being
Speaker 2: as kind of just coming from the dol drums is
Speaker 2: like such a nice story that it's kind of hard
Speaker 2: to not like latch on to the excitement and the
Speaker 2: promise of that what JB was able to build, and
Speaker 2: I think when you're talking about the franchise player, it stops,
Speaker 2: not stops, but you like maybe the ceilings upon Karen
Speaker 2: Kaid maybe a little bit more. But a man is
Speaker 2: somebody who people are literally drooling over on Houston and Washington.
Speaker 2: Goon is there and he's obviously a really good basketball
Speaker 2: player too. People are like, yo, what a man could
Speaker 2: potentially potentially turn out to They feel like there's not
Speaker 2: a ceiling that we can see just yet, which I
Speaker 2: think is really interesting. But the Rockets to me, have
Speaker 2: the best collection of talent and are probably the best
Speaker 2: coached currently. And that's not to say yes because they
Speaker 2: were the two suits in the Western Conference. I just
Speaker 2: really feel like they have guys in a reserve that
Speaker 2: they didn't even go to like Cam Wentmore just like
Speaker 2: fell out of the rotation. Rich Shepperd couldn't make the
Speaker 2: rotation either. Like these are players that I think other
Speaker 2: teams would love to have on their potfobial rosters. So
Speaker 2: if I was building, you gave me a chance to
Speaker 2: go with wish it for a team, I think Houston,
Speaker 2: especially with their draft capital, would be the team that
Speaker 2: I would go with in addition to the collection of
Speaker 2: talent that they currently have, inclusive of guys who are
Speaker 2: not even really playing, because those guys can probably get
Speaker 2: me another star if I wanted to. But I think
Speaker 2: this is a really interesting conversation. Both these three young
Speaker 2: teams have higher ceilings than they showed this year, and
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see when they actualize that potential.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm actually looking forward to seeing what the Detroit
Speaker 1: Pistons try. And do you know, to your point, we
Speaker 1: could have easily probably picked up on the Pistons. I'm
Speaker 1: a little lary of can you give me the same
Speaker 1: thing that you gave me with Malik Beasily sick at
Speaker 1: two years in a row. And you know, even if
Speaker 1: you have a like I still I still think that
Speaker 1: there's much more room And to your point, like that's
Speaker 1: one of the reason why I was hedging my bets
Speaker 1: a little bit about the Magic because I haven't seen, like,
Speaker 1: you know, Jalen Suggs he suffered his injury, Does he
Speaker 1: take a step forward? You know? And what will see
Speaker 1: version of him will come into that season because I
Speaker 1: really do think that they want him to be the
Speaker 1: point guard you know, for that for that magic team.
Speaker 1: So it'll be interesting to see, you know, what other
Speaker 1: guys take that next step. But yeah, man, all three
Speaker 1: of these teams so impressive, at least from my perspective
Speaker 1: of what they They showed us what the potential could
Speaker 1: be for them. And I do think to your point Shaw,
Speaker 1: if there's a team that people really need to pay
Speaker 1: attention to, that that two seed by the Houston Rockets,
Speaker 1: I don't think is a fluke. I do think that
Speaker 1: if they get you know, one or two other players
Speaker 1: to kind of round out, maybe Adokah shifts a little
Speaker 1: bit about how that ball movement goes and flows through
Speaker 1: sengoon and where a'm and Thompson can take that next
Speaker 1: step and commanding you know, more ball, more ball handling
Speaker 1: responsibilities or maybe even more scoring opportunities responsibilities. Yeah. Absolutely, man.
Speaker 2: Well, I definitely have the autops in the Rockets because
Speaker 2: I'd love to get some thoughts here on the Jelling
Speaker 2: Green experience and all that, but we'll save that for
Speaker 2: when we can have on the surgery the surgeon gloves
Speaker 2: and we have the scalpels out, because a lot more
Speaker 2: to unpack.
Speaker 1: There with all of these teams. I know, man, I
Speaker 1: had you know, I brought I brought my traveling you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, My CSI kit dropped. I brought
Speaker 1: it with me. But uh yeah, we had to pivot.
Speaker 1: That's okay, though, That's that's okay. We'll be we'll be
Speaker 1: ready to uh you know I'm saying dissect and you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying on the next go around. Yes, sir, Hey,
Speaker 1: this has been a great, great episode and as always, man,
Speaker 1: we appreciate everybody for hopping on board with us this
Speaker 1: week for the baseline Cali warren Shaw. We appreciate you guys,
Speaker 1: you know we do, and we will catch up with
Speaker 1: you next stop.