Speaker 1: On location and driven by Victor Chrystlin, dot's chief Brown.
It's Billified the Bill Moran Podcast.
Speaker 2: Well, hello and welcome from the love capital of Rhinebeck,
New York. I mean my mom's home. You can see
all the things behind me, and there she is mah March.
Last night we uh, we were people watching at the
Beagman Arms, the oldest in in America.
Speaker 1: And it's so much fun to go there. It's like
this old it's almost like a speakeasy in the back.
I mean it's not it's you know what I mean.
It's quiet, it's nice. It's like you're tucked away. No
one knows where you are. It's awesome. And bar Marge
was disciplined and had one drink and I did not.
I had to. I love I have to just say this.
And I don't know where I got this from, and
maybe you have a better insight, but I love to drink.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: I mean, I love I absolutely, I just love it.
I love the people. I love the events around it,
like the games, like the socialization. You know, nothing makes
me happier than when you go out for brunch and
they say mimosas, mimosas. Yeah, all right, we'll have mimosas.
Oh it's bottomless mimosas today, and you practically, you know,
get so excited. It's so much fun. But my mother said,
as she sat down, I don't know what we're going
to talk about, and oh, yeah, here, and I said, oh,
I don't like to tell you because I don't want
you to overthink things, because you have a tendency to
do that. But what I would say is, this will
be fun. This will be very interesting and insightful. And
I think, no, I did, Why are you nervous? Yes,
you are my mom who rebuilt her house after burned down,
rebuilt her life after thirty five years of marriage, raised
three kids, ran a department, and is still teaching at
seventy nine years old. Right, well, you're going to be
teaching a class for adult learners at Bard College, which
I think is still one of the most expensive universities
in the United States. And for people who haven't heard
about it, if you watch the Chevy Chase and it's Chevy,
you idiot. As I interviewed him once and I burst
out laughing, I think I just get that guy, like
I really do, because everybody said to me afterwards that
interview would have tanked had you not. And I go, yeah,
he wasn't. That's that's funny. That's a funny thing that
he said. But it's in there. He went to bard.
I don't know that he finished. I think he dropped out,
but it's in there. So, But you were going to
be teaching a class for adult learners on listening, which
I think is maybe one of the most important skills
you can have, and if you could develop it at
twenty five, it would be such such a nice thing.
But for you, what is the difference between hearing and
truly listening? And pull that microphone a little bit closer
to you. You don't have to if you just yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, hearing's more physical mechanics. Yeah, Listening it's more into emotional,
right and intellectual and if you're really listening, your empathizer
with the listener with the speaker.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So listening is a validation, yes, when you think
about it. And I even wonder if that helps people
with like their nervous system regulation of things. I mean,
when you think about a child who isn't listened to,
what do they do? They get loud, then they get
your attention one way or another, right, And I think
that's that's the uh, well, sure, And I mean there
is something about when we feel truly heard. I even
think that like when you're not really listening in a marriage,
you know, and you're hearing but not listening. And I
think like most guys here and then they try to
fix instead of listen, right, Yes, And I really do.
And I think that listening, I mean this is where
arguments dissolve some time into name calling, which is always
the intellectual eject button on anything, and it's hard to
recover from that. I think that it leads to, like
our political division, no one's really listening to anybody anymore.
There's a lot of shouting on social media and things
that we hear. I don't know. I would say listening
is regulation.
Speaker 3: And then that's a big thing when people are trying
to fix it and somebody else is just trying to
say sometimes they just need a place to talk, they
need somebody to listen to them. And you know, I've
spent my life in teaching communication skills. Most of it
was on the other end, helping people speak correctly, but
to do that, you know, I also saw it listening.
And I used to with the kids talk about whole
body listening, so you need to tend with your eyes.
You need to be looking at the person. You need
to be tuned in, so you need to be centered,
calm down, focused.
Speaker 1: So all of that, all that does come into play.
Let me ask you about like the neurodivergent, for example,
which is the term we'll tell you say about kids
with the Autis's spectrum disorder or anything. Because I spent
a lot of time with a young man who has
some issues. I won't go into where they are, but
often it's like doing something else while the teacher's teaching,
but will look at me and answer the question that
is asked to the class. I just want to for
some it's that way. I would think, like there are
physical signings that you're tuned in and listening, and I
think as an adult, you know you need to learn
those or give the respect, especially in relationships and things.
And and I don't even mean romantic relationships. Yeah, yeah, imptant, yeah,
because I think if you don't feel heard at some times,
you don't feel safe, would that be you know what
I mean? You almost feel especially in a relationship. And
I do think like what was a silly book that
used to came out years ago, and then there's some
truth through it. Men are from Mars, women are from Venus,
you know, and everybody. It became a joke, it became
something some people took it very seriously, but there was
some value I think in there, and especially from the
male side of well, I have to fix something, and
the more emotional side is like exactly what you said,
which is what therapy would be. Person centered therapy would
be listening and not trying to fix, you know, let
you find the solution your off.
Speaker 3: A lot of times, like in relationships and with men,
especially their hearing, they are hearing, and so it looks
to the speaker that they're not listening, but they've heard,
you know, if you question them on it. So but
then you know it's making the speaker comfortable too, is
another responsibility of the listeners.
Speaker 1: The house that we were raised in that dad had built,
primarily built most of it, it burned out. And what
was the first thought when you when you saw the house,
like after you come back and it was just ashes
in the foundation in the basement, you know, because we
had all come down and uh, what what did you
I mean, what was that first thought when you saw that? Well,
I don't know. I'm thinking in the aftermath, but even
when it is happening, because you were trying to get
the car out, and that's screaming get out, get out,
get out, and you're gonna go get the car, back
it out.
Speaker 3: And then well, yeah, Dad was downstairs and had said
you have to get out right away and clone nine
one one. There were only weren't cell phones that big
in that day. So I somehow had the house phone
and I'm calling nine one one. And then I had
just come in from yoga and I was in the
crappiest clothes possible, and I decided, well, we both need jackets.
Well I pulled out.
Speaker 1: Old yeah time, what time? You hear? It was this
I don't remember everywhere February Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3: It was very cold out. It was snow all over
the ground, and I so then I'm like not seeing
the flames right, and they're under me. So I'm thinking.
I had a new job and all the testing for
the kindergartens school district was in the back of my car.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: We did this quarterly test, a lot of the listening
skills and all, so I thought, I'll go through the garage.
So you as I'm going through the dining room, which
we entered the garage through, the lights went it. The
flames were raging under me, but I didn't know it.
And so I went to put up the garage door
and only went up a little bit because the electricity
went out. So I'm going down, coats in my hand
and all, and I go down the stairs because you
went down into the garage, and I said, do we
take the car and just drive it? I would have
ram it through.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 3: Dad was standing there, so so it was a good
thing I did. I crawled under and he goes, oh
my god, we're worrying, and he said, we have to
run down this driveway and he said the window is
going to blow. And we weren't to the bottom of
the driveway that the windows started blowing out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that's a yeah. So, oh,
you come real close to your own mortality in that.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, when I think about standing over that
dining room, Oh, when I think of what that would
have felt like, that floor cleft. Yeah, and everything did
clapse and went right into the basement and it was minutes. Yeah,
maybe less I don't know, but anyway, I got out
and the car burned and the school district we were fine.
There's nothing that taught you, and that that was the thing.
I think. I was even the bottom of that driveway
and I realized everything else is replaceable. Everything. I remember
really being hit by that that here we were standing there,
we had good jobs, we had in terms, somehow this
would be taken care of, and then we were a
mess together. And I really thought that we could now
work together and pull this back together, our own relationship,
because everything was taken away. I mean there was nothing.
Speaker 1: No. I was yeah, because I was going to ask you,
what does it teach you about attachments? And I think
he just said it everything is replaceable. Yeah, yeah, I
mean there are certain things like the pictures and stuff.
Speaker 3: The pictures in the videos, those were the things of
you guys growing up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, those are the things I think would be hard.
Speaker 3: I had antique things of that my mother had given me,
of her mother's and that stuff was gone. It was
a beautiful butter dish and you know it's gone. And
I remember saying to her, now hold it for a while,
and what she did, because but yeah, you realized that.
And I remember when the psychologists in school, he meant well,
but he kept following me around. He thought I should
be a wreck. He thought I should be a mess. Yeah,
and I was really okay because you know, we just
started putting it back together in and none of you
guys were there.
Speaker 1: You were all adults I had, I mean, I'm not
sure were the U I had kids. Yes, you know,
Jackson and Jordan were around.
Speaker 3: So and you all came down. Yeah, you know, we
got settled into a condo and we get preoccupied with
building that hand.
Speaker 1: How many years were you matter? Thirty eight was it?
I remember we had the thirty fifth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it was about thirty eight when we did separate.
Speaker 1: Was Lee leaving harder than staying?
Speaker 3: Staying?
Speaker 1: Was?
Speaker 3: Probably all the years in between. And I'm only talking
for myself. I'm sure, yeah, you know, h it was hard.
But I was scared, Yeah, you know I was. I
didn't think I could do it. I didn't think I
was strong enough to do it, and I I certainly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what it is?
Speaker 3: So, but when the final breaking point came, the it
was easier, it was it was better at that point
to be alone.
Speaker 1: Then it's I'm thinking about like you know, a lot
of times I think there are maybe it's men because
I'm a guy, and you know, but men, men feel
stuck in a certain relationship. And don't know, I think
this is a very relatable thing here. But your sixty
plus at that point, what what did you learn about
yourself in that situation that I.
Speaker 3: Could have done this and I could have done it
all along?
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah?
Speaker 3: And oh you know you say guys feel stuck. Women
feel stuck. Oh, sure, you know, because a lot of women. Well,
I was raised with the idea that the man's head
of the family, the man takes care of everything, right,
you know, which I never complied to. I remember my
dad saying to me, so you're working for a little
while now. I think it was after you were born,
Billy or maybe Katie. I had gone back and he
said to help Bill out. And I was like, wait
a minute, I have a career here, And I said, not, Dad,
I have a career. I trained to do this stuff.
I love doing it, and I'm working for that. You know.
So a lot of women feel stuck. A lot of
women are and they couldn't support themselves, and so they're
very stocking situations. They can't get.
Speaker 1: What's surprised you at dating later in life because you're
sixty something years old and it was thought it was
I mean, I had no problem with that at all.
I thought it was great.
Speaker 3: It was kind of fun. It was kind of neat
to see that you still could attract people.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Sure, and there were a lot of good times, you know, Yeah,
I had a lot of good times. And each person
brings something different. But now I think you look at
it and you realize, you know, I'm not giving up
what I have right, a lot of my independence, a
lot of freedom. So getting married again is fine for
some people, but I think you have to look at
the whole pictures. So and then you see you can
you're not there's an independence there, so you're not involved
with that other person. So even sometimes when they make
remarks and things work with your husband and I know, oh,
I was like this, Oh stop, you know, don't hey.
Speaker 1: That's it. That's funny. Yeah, that is very funny. Wow
that I kind of like that. I saw an Instagram
reel that I thought was maybe spot on, and it's
from a woman's point of view and she's like a
single mom. She goes, you know, I just want a
part time boyfriend that will be there when I want
him to be and we'll do what I want to do,
and he'll see nobody else, but he'll be available whenever
I want. But he can't see you know, I want
him to myself, but I just want him when I
want him. And I thought, yeah, I could totally see
why that ideal would be nice, right, because you just
don't want the bullshit of stuff. And I think I
say often as a joke, you know when we talk
about unconditional loving things, you leave your socks on the floor,
you know, those little tiny annoyances. You know, sharing a
bathroom with a man is probably way grosser than sharing
it with a woman, or vice versa. I don't know.
So you you know, you walk in, there's hair in
the sink, there's this, there's that, or there's hair in
the drain. I don't know. I would say, you know
everything you've kind of talked about here. Reinvention is not
a young person's game. This is not or only a
young person's game. I think a lot of time we think, well,
you can reinvent yourself. No, I think you should always
be trying to better yourself or do something. I'm not
sure about reinvent, but you know, even the starting over thing,
I think all that's overwhelming and scary.
Speaker 3: It is, but I think, as I said, we limit
our so we let ourselves be scared. Yeah, and I
think they are again more self love, more realism in
your abilities or confidence in yourself.
Speaker 1: You are a master level reiki as well I am.
And what is reiki like in I guess in simple terms,
we'll call it layman terms, so to speak.
Speaker 3: It's working on the body, the chakras of the body
to let energy flow, and everything is made of energy,
and people are realizing that more and more and more
science is valid all over the place. So it helps people.
It doesn't do anything. Reiki is not to cure you,
you know, it's not. You have an illness, you can
and have reiki.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 3: Reiki is just to let your body and we have
magnificent bodies that can heal themselves in many, many ways.
So reiki is to let your body relax, let the
chakras open, let the energy flow, and let you be
better able to heal yourself your body to be more
in balanced.
Speaker 1: Is presence healing?
Speaker 3: Oh, I think so. Yeah, yeah, I think being in
the moment. You know, we're always looking at the past
or worried about what's going to happen in the future,
but the moments we have, like I'm just thinking, this
has been such a nice weekend. It was a short
week with you, but the moments. Being in the present
for those moments was a present it was and we
have those all the time, right, like waking up in
the morning and looking at at the sunshine, but being
present to see that, not waking up, oh I gotta
do this again, but taking those moments. So that's where
I think meditation really helps. Just gratitude, practicing gratitude, and
it's easy, it's simple.
Speaker 1: What are you still learning?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think you ever stepped learning. I'm learning
that and we fall back all the time. So yesterday morning,
I woke up, I wasn't feeling that great, and I
was anticipating doing trying to get everybody together for that
podcast because it's a group I'm with and and we
were doing everybody was doing it from their homes. I
was worried about all of that, and then I didn't
like the way my hair looked, and I was just
you know, and then I thought, so then the day progressed,
and once that podcast was over, I felt so relieved
and it went well. And then we had such a
nice afternoon taking a walk and then you know, stepping
at the Beakman Arms, which we absolutely enjoy so much,
and then nice dinner and you were working and it
just you know. So when I got up this morning,
I changed my attention completely because in fact, I'm going
to this party and I was, I love who it's
for this afternoon, and then she tells me she sits
me at a table where I don't know anybody, because
I'll handle it basically, Oh my god. And then this
morning I went, you know what, look at it this way.
That's going to be fun. And you know what, you're
going to wash your hair and blow it out and
it's gonna come out. You're gonna really like it today.
And so I set that attention and what difference?
Speaker 1: So you do.
Speaker 3: Learn and and you know, I think we're human, so
you're gonna have to keep going back and doing those things.
Speaker 1: We are in a human experience, and I think sometimes
we would look at all these things like, uh, if
I do this, it'll fix everything. Or these woo woo
things are you're you're in a human body having a
human experience, and you can, you know, kind of kind
of go the other way. And life's never gonna stop
coming at you. But you don't have to look at
it as because that even sounds uh disastrous. Life's never
gonna stop coming at you, you know what I mean,
It's like a ninety mile an hour fastball. Right. Well,
what what do older people? Older people get wrong about aging?
Speaker 3: I think probably worrying too much about where they're gonna
wind up and what's gonna happen. And again, if we
could stay in the moment, you have to do you
have to set things. I mean, I'm now in a
condominium that I own and I love and it's a
better place to be than so you have to do
all of those things and get them in place. But
then I think you always have to keep having fun,
being involved, being involved, and you know, having a lot
of volunteering is a wonderful thing because you just get
so much more out of volunteering, and there's so many
places and so many people that can use help. And
I think just being aware of the people around you.
But I think that's the thing isolation. When people stop
leaving their homes, you know, they're worried about things, and
so that's I think the biggest thing probably the worrying
and stop engage and stopping being engaged. I think lifetime
learning is important. I think keeping up any kind of activities, knitting, groups,
so in groups, dancing, you know, being social.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's really really important. And like you know,
you could even see it in you and Dad, the
difference that was there for a certain thing. What do
you think so younger people like, we we look at
getting older, but what do we misunderstand about getting older?
Speaker 3: Maybe I think I haven't experienced this too much, but
I think some of the people said that all of
a sudden, the younger well this would be their own children, right,
are telling them now what to do, you know, and
treating them like they're less than. So I think one
of the things for younger people to understand is you
need to assess, you need to see where your parents
are at sure, and then but then the other thing
is but let them be who they are and let
them The other thing is just in general, with all
the people, I think you need to realize all the
wisdom people can bring yeah, and I think talk to
them more, you know, and if you have some kind
of a group, asked them to come join their group,
even play groups. We have a playgroup that's here and
they're looking for like grandmothers to come read to the
little kids.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great.
Speaker 3: Thing, you know. But there's a lot of wisdom that
can be shared.
Speaker 1: That's very interesting because as you were saying, I go,
you know, there's wisdom versus information, right, and sometimes we
can all absorb information, but then how do you apply it?
And that's where wisdom is. How do I fit this
into my life or whatever it is? Well, is there
anything that you wish you understood better? Let's say at forty,
I know, or we could say your younger self to
now you know.
Speaker 3: Yes, I would really have like to said, you know,
things are gonna be okay, they're gonna work out fun.
You need to relax, and you need to really be
who you are and you need to love yourself more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, so that you can be better for every Yeah,
and be better for everybody around you. That's uh, that's good.
The uh yeah, I mean you know you think about
even energy and relationships where you're worrying. That's an energy, right,
and and then that's picked up on and you know,
you start this dance and the dance becomes the same
thing over and over again, and I like it. I
think a lot of what you're saying to me is
like aging without shrinking, yeah right where you know, while
I really can't do that anymore or physically, I'm just
gonna stay here. I'm not gonna age without shrinking. I mean,
that's that's a big thing.
Speaker 3: So you have to adapt to you know, I no
longer want to get on my bike.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'll go out walking, sure.
Speaker 3: And you know, do lots of other things. Traveling, Yeah,
traveling is very important if you can do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You went to Milan last year, last summer, last fall,
Le's fall. Yeah yeah, and now the Olympics are in Milan.
Speaker 3: And that's been so much fun to watch.
Speaker 1: Is there anything that you're still working on? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
what would that be?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: See really, yeah, you got a you went to college,
right to an all girls college, coming from a home
where that wasn't really supported. No, I mean I can
say supported. It did happen, but but it wasn't popular.
It wasn't.
Speaker 3: It was not popular, and I think in so many
ways I really cannive my way into that one.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but that's a confidence that you can do it, yes, right,
And then the masters and then the running your department,
getting a private license to do therapy when you used
to do stuttering therapy with people, and early intervention early
intervention stuff. So really confidence, well in one area.
Speaker 3: New areas, like I have never really taught adults, so
I'm looking at that, yeah, to possibly do that in
the fall, and designing your course and putting that together.
And I think these learning new things with the computer
and all, because I can get overwhelmed with that stuff.
But so I think working on the confidence that I
can figure this out. You know, even when I got
the new car, it was like whoa right because my
other car was twelve years old. So the difference in
this car in that car was amazing.
Speaker 1: I think this is great.
Speaker 3: And then confidence because I think society often thinks they're older.
You know, that happened there, so you often think, I
want to be very cautious in the car too, because
if you're an accent.
Speaker 1: Oh well yeah. I think that there is maybe a
certain point in society. I never felt this way. I
can't say that they don't care what people think. And
then obviously things like what other people's opinions on me
or none of my business. But it's not that I don't.
I never cared. I just never let it kind of
stop me. And I've never felt where I've heard women
my age say you become invisible in society. I don't
know if that's changing now a little bit because you're
you know, and then there are certain segments of oh, yeah,
you know, there's married and unmarried. I would be out
seeing more of the social life that goes on. And
also many people my age, their kids are in college
or out, So yeah, I don't. I've never felt that way.
I've never felt invisible. I never felt I never felt
like I didn't fit in anywhere. I really didn't. I
always felt like I could walk into a country club
and fit in there, and I could walk into a
garage and talk to the guys there, and I just
felt like I fit in everywhere. I guess I just
I just never did. And I know that, like you know,
people don't like this because there's often the term white privilege,
and I know a lot of guys will go, well,
what do you mean. I had to work my ass off,
I had to do this, I had to do that.
And it isn't so much that I think. It's like
you have a you're more accepted, so when you go
in there, you're more accepted in certain places, you know.
I mean, And I think that I would say, like,
I know, people profile and we hear I'm supposed to
profile and you shouldn't do this, but I go, it's
sort of our animal instinct and you get it. I mean,
I remember, you know, brother, we he's white guy covered
in tattoos, right, He's coming back, had his boat up
in Ontario, was going to let the kids and everybody
stay there, and he's going to run home. And what
he's bringing home are these oversized pillows that are just
on the boat, taking up too much space. He's going
through with another guy in the car that is also
as tattooed as he is. They get him to tattooed
poler together. Now, just to just tell you the story,
they get pulled over at the border and they and
the border security is ripping open the pillows looking for
cocaine because these guys, do you understand, so again, it's
like what fits you know, your thing, and my thing
was I felt like like I could walk in anywhere.
I was never suspected of anything nefarious. I really wasn't.
Maybe a little bit, but not, you know, nothing, I could.
I walked it everywhere, and I just always had fun.
I for the most part, I don't know. We'll wrap
it up here. I would close it by saying, I
think that most people want to be understood. Yeah, and
I think very few sometimes are willing to understand. And
I think that may be part of our problem, even
in in a collective thing. And maybe that's why I
would say, it's seventy nine, you're still growing, right, I mean,
not the not the shrinking flower, not the one. And
maybe the goal isn't to be heard, but maybe the
goal is to become someone worth listening to. Yeah, you know,
someone worth listening to, to have the wisdom, to have
the life experience and to sort of slow down and
and uh, can.
Speaker 3: I live in an excellent community here? Yeah, it's an
aging is an aging population, but it's active, it's something
to do all the time. It's just and yet it's diverse,
you know, sure, So it's wonderful very blessed.
Speaker 1: Well, you are very blessed, and even have me who
comes to visit all those types of things for Mo.
Marge starting over and doing great. It's never too late.
I'm Bill Moran, will see you Tomorrows to be needs
to produce