Speaker 1: Hello everyone, it's your host, Amanda Eka, and I have
Speaker 1: some amazing news. Starting this fall, the post Speaks is
Speaker 1: coming to your TV screens. Yes, that's right. After eight
Speaker 1: amazing seasons as a podcast, The poet Speaks with Amanda
Speaker 1: Eka is now a TV show airing are the Archaeology
Speaker 1: Channel's new streaming service, Heritage. Everyone, get ready for a
Speaker 1: visual feast, spoken, more performances, and deep dives into the
Speaker 1: minds of poets from all over the world. Now something
Speaker 1: extraordinary is coming and you won't want to miss a
Speaker 1: single moment. Stay tuned. Hello everyone, and welcome back to
Speaker 1: the poet Speaks Podcast. Now, our next guest is a
Speaker 1: queer Afro Dominican poet raised in Harlem and the South Bronx,
Speaker 1: a twenty twenty two Langston Hughes Fellow at the Palm
Speaker 1: Beach Poetry Festival and an alum of the Tin House
Speaker 1: Winter Workshop. This work has received the Leslie McGrath Poetry
Speaker 1: Prize in twenty twenty three, the Pacific Spirit Poetry Prize
Speaker 1: in two. When you want the finalist for the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two Mississippi Review Poetry Prize. Everyone, Welcome to the
Speaker 1: poll Speaks Podcast. Miguel Martin Perez, Miguel, how are you.
Speaker 2: I'm good, Thank you for having me absolutely.
Speaker 1: How does it feel when you hear all your accomplishments
Speaker 1: just like out loud like that you blush.
Speaker 2: Little, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have mixed feelings. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm still fledgling, you know, like I'm still I feel
Speaker 2: like I'm at the beginning of my career. So it's
Speaker 2: it's almost surreal to think that I've done some things already,
Speaker 2: but I don't know, it's I don't know, it's kind
Speaker 2: of embarrassing almost, like to just hear it all spelled out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the whole thing. You feel like you're fledgling.
Speaker 1: Even with your success, you still feel like you're fledgling
Speaker 1: at the beginning of a career. That's an interesting kind
Speaker 1: of place to be when you've accomplished a lot, but
Speaker 1: you still feel like you're fledgling.
Speaker 2: Yeah know, for sure. I mean I What's nice is
Speaker 2: that over the course of like the years that I've
Speaker 2: been focused on on poetry, I've met a lot of people,
Speaker 2: like a lot of people like I've met, you know,
Speaker 2: peers that are like around the same stage that I'm at,
Speaker 2: and professors who've you know, had four or five, six,
Speaker 2: seven books under their belt. I've met some legends that
Speaker 2: are just like you know, the best of the best,
Speaker 2: and so you know, sometimes you can't help but compare.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, it's like, you know, this
Speaker 2: is the beginning. I reserve the right to be a
Speaker 2: little bit humble, and you know, hold on to hope
Speaker 2: that you know, I have potential, I have room to grow.
Speaker 2: I can accomplish bigger things later.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely respect. Respect. Now tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: about where are you at. Where are you located in
Speaker 1: the world right now? I think a little bit from
Speaker 1: your accent, but you tell us where you're in the
Speaker 1: world right now.
Speaker 2: I just moved back from California, like a couple of
Speaker 2: months ago. I'm back home in the Bronx, you know,
Speaker 2: staying with family, catching up with friends. Yeah, I'm back
Speaker 2: in my hometown, my hometown. This is where where I
Speaker 2: grew up, this is where I was raised. And you know,
Speaker 2: the MFA pulled me out to California for a couple
Speaker 2: of years and I stayed three more after that. So
Speaker 2: I had a nice little stint at West.
Speaker 1: Yeah, from West Coast to East coast tell us a bit.
Speaker 1: Were you born and born and raised bred in the Bronx?
Speaker 2: Correct, born in Inwood like I was born at the
Speaker 2: Allen Pavilion Hospital, like the top of Manhattan until age six.
Speaker 2: I grew up in Harlem on like one hundred and
Speaker 2: fortieth in Amsterdam. And then around age six, you know,
Speaker 2: once my mom was a single mom, we moved out
Speaker 2: to the South Bronx. So I've lived here since I
Speaker 2: was six years old in the year two thousand.
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, tell us what was that like growing up?
Speaker 1: So that would be you grew up in the nineties,
Speaker 1: would that be correct, somewhere around there early two thousands.
Speaker 2: I'm born ninety four exactly.
Speaker 1: What was that kind of like growing up in that
Speaker 1: area in the Bronx, that New York City sense of mind.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people that are not born
Speaker 1: and raised there. We all have our different kind of
Speaker 1: ideas of what being a kid in New York City is.
Speaker 1: Like there's a show I used to watch called Hey Arnold.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, in my mind, they was the schools would
Speaker 1: be like PS. Eighteen. It never says it in the show,
Speaker 1: but I believe that it grew up around New York City,
Speaker 1: right tell us what was it like being a kid
Speaker 1: growing up in a city like that.
Speaker 2: Oh, there's so much to say. I you learn a
Speaker 2: lot of things quickly. You know, once you're in like
Speaker 2: middle school, you're already expected to take the trains and
Speaker 2: the buses on your own. Yeah, you know. You you
Speaker 2: learn how to navigate streets. Do you learn what the
Speaker 2: da are very early? You know, to stay away from
Speaker 2: from strangers, you know, you know, you learn to keep
Speaker 2: your distance, don't make eye contact. That there's a lot
Speaker 2: that is spoken and unspoken. You learn very quickly to
Speaker 2: be to be careful. It's a big place and it's
Speaker 2: easy to get lost. But you know, at the same time,
Speaker 2: you know, it's such a it's such a big city
Speaker 2: that there are so many people. You meet all kinds
Speaker 2: of people, no matter what school you go to, what
Speaker 2: like extracurriculars you do. You know, you are exposed to
Speaker 2: diversity from the jump. So I think that's kind of
Speaker 2: like the root of this idea that New Yorkers like
Speaker 2: have seen it all or like nothing phases them. Like
Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of clips online of like New
Speaker 2: Yorkers not reacting or looking at something you know otherwise
Speaker 2: extraordinary happening on the subway. So yeah, it's it's it's great.
Speaker 2: It's great. You learn a whole lot, You get exposed
Speaker 2: to a lot, and over time you get used to
Speaker 2: a lot, maybe maybe get a little bit jaded, But
Speaker 2: you know, I don't regret.
Speaker 1: It, Yeah, for sure, for sure now, so I do
Speaker 1: want to get to later this kind of point of
Speaker 1: that perspective to the West Coast especially. I know you
Speaker 1: went to UC Riverside, and I'm very well familiar with
Speaker 1: that school. But we'll get to that a little bit later.
Speaker 1: When did uh, when did you discover poetry? Was it
Speaker 1: during your childhood in the city, in the Bronx, like
Speaker 1: you said that New York, you learn a lot at
Speaker 1: such a small young age. Did you discover writing at
Speaker 1: that point when you were learning so much at such
Speaker 1: a young age, or did poetry find you later in
Speaker 1: your career in your life.
Speaker 2: I poetry like really got me when I was in
Speaker 2: high school. You know. The The unfortunate thing about the
Speaker 2: educational system, you know then when I was coming up
Speaker 2: through the ranks and still to this day, is that
Speaker 2: poetry is kind of a mini section. Like that's probably
Speaker 2: a day or two in a given like English course.
Speaker 2: So you know, there were moments and I still remember
Speaker 2: these moments, you know, maybe like second grade, fifth grade,
Speaker 2: seventh grade, where there was a poetry section and I
Speaker 2: was really excited just to like have something creative to
Speaker 2: do in class, and you know, reading something that was
Speaker 2: different from all of the short stories, different from the
Speaker 2: you know, the plays that we read, et cetera. But
Speaker 2: it wasn't until high school, Like it wasn't until I
Speaker 2: was a freshman in high school where I started taking
Speaker 2: up journaling seriously. And basically what happened is that over time,
Speaker 2: I was just like journaling every single day, just like
Speaker 2: writing everything that I did throughout the day, and day
Speaker 2: after day got more detailed. I started describing that just
Speaker 2: what I did that day, but I was talking about
Speaker 2: like the facial expressions in my friend's face when they
Speaker 2: told me this, and that I started describing what passers
Speaker 2: by were wearing. Like I was becoming really detailed, like
Speaker 2: borderline obsessive with my journal entries. I wanted it to
Speaker 2: be as descriptive as possible, and then that became a
Speaker 2: problem because it caused insomnia. Like I was recounting my
Speaker 2: day into the night and so poetry just kind of
Speaker 2: happened from there. I found shortcuts, I found ways of
Speaker 2: describing emotions in detail that didn't need all that detail.
Speaker 2: I took it upon myself to learn new words so
Speaker 2: that I didn't have to like use a sentence to
Speaker 2: describe something. I could just use that one word. And
Speaker 2: so you know, my ballooned, and then poetry allowed it
Speaker 2: to become more condensed, and I just stuck to it
Speaker 2: from there. I never got bored. I just kept writing
Speaker 2: poems about whatever I felt like, wow, wow.
Speaker 1: You know, in the journey of kind of I one
Speaker 1: could say, I guess becoming a poet is a lot
Speaker 1: of you know, you really do describe yourself as a
Speaker 1: documentor of just life around you. Like you even saying
Speaker 1: that you were just going into such detail, almost like
Speaker 1: a summer like neuroticism of just details of people's lives
Speaker 1: that caused you insomnia. What do you think where did
Speaker 1: that come from? What do you think that really kind
Speaker 1: of was inside of you that just wanted to write
Speaker 1: a detailed script and narration of everything your eyeballs were seeing,
Speaker 1: even as a like as.
Speaker 2: A kid, if you're good, you're good. I yeah, I
Speaker 2: it was around that time that I that I realized
Speaker 2: that I was suffering from depression. I started going to therapy.
Speaker 2: You know, things were changing around that time, and I
Speaker 2: became a little bit more quiet, more reserved with people
Speaker 2: with peers, at school, with family, and I don't know,
Speaker 2: at least with me. I'm not going to be prescriptive,
Speaker 2: but like you stopped talking for a good month and
Speaker 2: you start seeing a lot of things going on, you
Speaker 2: start to notice. I became very observant around that time,
Speaker 2: but I still needed something to say. I didn't trust
Speaker 2: myself to speak out verbally, but I think there's I
Speaker 2: think we all have an inherent need to be seen
Speaker 2: be heard. So while my mouth didn't want to talk,
Speaker 2: I let my pen do the talking. And you know,
Speaker 2: it's you're a teenager, You're in high school. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of changes going on. Things are becoming very very different,
Speaker 2: and yeah, you know a lot of new things on
Speaker 2: the horizon you have to worry about. You know, you're
Speaker 2: starting to really think about careers in college. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: wanted to document that. I wanted to catch everything and
Speaker 2: process it. Poetry allowed me to really take these things
Speaker 2: in think about my experiences more thoroughly and come to
Speaker 2: some conclusions about what kind of person am I? Now?
Speaker 2: What kind of person do I want to be? What
Speaker 2: is this world that I mean? Why does society work
Speaker 2: this way? Yeah? I needed it for my well being.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, Tell me and thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1: That takes a lot, definitely to share that perspective and
Speaker 1: that experience, So we really do appreciate you sharing that
Speaker 1: with us. Tell me a little bit about how kind
Speaker 1: of moving gears a little bit. How does that area
Speaker 1: of South Bronx, How as a poet from Harlem, South Bronx,
Speaker 1: what does that mean to your writing? I know, like,
Speaker 1: as we talked about before before we start the show,
Speaker 1: the New York City is like it's unlike I think
Speaker 1: any other place in the world. I think the Bronx, right, Harlem,
Speaker 1: there's such staples, but they're so unique in terms of
Speaker 1: there it's just fertile ground. For so much has happened,
Speaker 1: so much history, So many feet have walked there on
Speaker 1: that ground, so much history, right, so much movement, action, pain, joy, beauty. Right,
Speaker 1: so much has happened on those in just that area. Right.
Speaker 1: How do you feel that the area, your environment of Harlem,
Speaker 1: South Bronx. Has that really influenced and shaped who you
Speaker 1: are as a writer or is that kind of just
Speaker 1: another chapter in the whole you know sphere of who
Speaker 1: Miguel is just one of the many layers of who
Speaker 1: you are? Or has that really shaped who you are
Speaker 1: as a writer?
Speaker 2: You know, the city is fused to me, Like you know,
Speaker 2: you if you're born and raised here, this is basically
Speaker 2: who you are. It doesn't matter where I've gone, those
Speaker 2: instincts are always there. But yeah, like you know, thinking
Speaker 2: about my my neighborhoods, my stomping grounds, you know, historically
Speaker 2: speaking as you say, like Harlem Renaissance, you know what
Speaker 2: Langston Hughes crossed the same streets I did? You know,
Speaker 2: Boogie down Bronx. This is the birthplace of hip hop's
Speaker 2: It's it's a story place. It's a very storied place,
Speaker 2: and you don't really like recognize that until later and
Speaker 2: you like dive deep into the history of your place.
Speaker 2: You know, as a kid, I it was just the place.
Speaker 2: It was just where I am, the only place I know.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it's It's always in my poetry, Like
Speaker 2: even when I'm gone, I'm writing about New York well,
Speaker 2: and it's kind of it's inseparable because it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of my poems try to process things that
Speaker 2: happen when I was young. Place is tied to those memories.
Speaker 2: I feel like I can't have those memories without New York.
Speaker 2: You know, I will always place my poems somewhere, those feelings,
Speaker 2: those like occurrences, that childhood that was in the backdrop
Speaker 2: of concrete and asphalt and buildings, skyscrapers, cars are zipping by,
Speaker 2: you know, the horns are blaring, crowds of people. It's inseparable.
Speaker 2: It's always always there. Even when I'm writing about California,
Speaker 2: I feel like New York is there.
Speaker 1: Wow, wow, wow, No, that's amazing. It's and I think
Speaker 1: I'm wondering you. I'm not a native New Yorker, but
Speaker 1: you are. You tell me if I'm Wronger right, that
Speaker 1: is something just so unique. Well, maybe not unique. I'm
Speaker 1: sure if we have people from the South, they would
Speaker 1: say maybe the South I was as a special place
Speaker 1: in their heart. But yeah, New York is a very
Speaker 1: very the city, New York City, very very special place. Now.
Speaker 1: That's that's amazing that you said you're bonded you're fused
Speaker 1: to it, and that's absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2: For better for worse, you know, like it's it's a
Speaker 2: famous place, well renowned. People across the world want to
Speaker 2: come here. But you know, gentrification is always happening. Our
Speaker 2: mayors are never good. You know, there's a constant fear
Speaker 2: of you know, violence and you know, a fear of
Speaker 2: a potential uptick and crime basically all the time, whether
Speaker 2: it's happening or not. You know, it's for better or
Speaker 2: for worse for sure, bit or sweet that.
Speaker 1: Are sweet for better for worse. Now, that's a good
Speaker 1: good way to put it. Now, I do want to
Speaker 1: I want to now kind of go shift as we
Speaker 1: kind of move forward down what has been your career
Speaker 1: so far before we get to being a twenty twenty
Speaker 1: two length and the us Fellow, Coved kunt of Fellow,
Speaker 1: all these phenomenal works that you've done in accolades, I
Speaker 1: want to talk about the time you spent at UC
Speaker 1: Riverside and receiving your MSA and creative writing. I think
Speaker 1: it's so pertinent and it intrigues me being as someone
Speaker 1: that's lived on both West and East Coast. What I mean,
Speaker 1: what was it like having the experience going to UC Riverside.
Speaker 1: I went to actually you see Davis myself, I'm very
Speaker 1: familiar with like the UC system. I'm just wondering, how
Speaker 1: does how does how does anyone even from South Bronx Harlem?
Speaker 1: How do you hear about a place like U see Riverside? Right?
Speaker 1: How do you hear about? You know what made you
Speaker 1: kind of traverse all the way to the other side
Speaker 1: of the country to really pursue and continue your education
Speaker 1: with writing? And what? What? What is the difference you
Speaker 1: see West versus East Coast in terms of just the
Speaker 1: environment as a poet? You know what? Was just somethings
Speaker 1: you you took note of.
Speaker 2: Got my bachelor's degree in psychology, and initially I wanted
Speaker 2: to be a therapist, like I wanted to specialize in
Speaker 2: like helping kids and teens overcome like neurodivergence. I wanted
Speaker 2: to be support for people that dealt with things that
Speaker 2: I dealt with when I was younger. But at some
Speaker 2: point it must have been like early senior year, I
Speaker 2: realized that this is not necessarily for me, and so
Speaker 2: I was looking for something to commit to career wise
Speaker 2: that I would not get bored with that I know that,
Speaker 2: like my interests will never waiver and the only thing
Speaker 2: that I could come up with is poetry. So once
Speaker 2: I graduated, I applied to MFA programs, including uc Riverside,
Speaker 2: and I was lucky to get a get an admission
Speaker 2: for UCR and I, you know, I I was excited.
Speaker 2: I was always interested in moving west. I was always
Speaker 2: interested in living outside of the state. And you know,
Speaker 2: at that point in my life, this is like twenty eighteen,
Speaker 2: the stress of the city was getting to me. I
Speaker 2: was starting to get tired of like walking in crowds.
Speaker 2: I was craving something slower paced, something that would keep
Speaker 2: my nerves low. So I was like, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2: Let's go to calling so that you know that that's
Speaker 2: what initially brought me out there, and you know it,
Speaker 2: it did give me a sense of calm. It gave
Speaker 2: me what I needed at the time. You know, nice weather,
Speaker 2: sun all the time, you get that vitamin D. You know,
Speaker 2: people are generally chiller, less hustle and bustle, a little
Speaker 2: slower paced. You know, you got you got the beach
Speaker 2: near by, like a nice clean beach nearby to go to.
Speaker 2: You know, the only issue at the time is you
Speaker 2: grow up in New York. It don't need a license,
Speaker 2: you don't need to drive. So that became a problem
Speaker 2: pretty quickly. I actually just got my license two years ago.
Speaker 1: Okay, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2: First time. So yeah, it's it's it's nice, it's it's
Speaker 2: low paced. But you know, I think within three years
Speaker 2: I realized, Okay, I'm getting a little bored.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I need more I need more action, I need more activity.
Speaker 2: There are no delis on the corners. Uh, like, I
Speaker 2: need somewhere to go to for food at one in
Speaker 2: the morning, and nothing's open except for McDonald's in California.
Speaker 2: For some reason, I was missing the activity. So you
Speaker 2: know that this was a good point in my life
Speaker 2: to return. And yeah, it's I did. I feel like
Speaker 2: this is always gonna be the case. I feel like
Speaker 2: within a few years of being here in New York,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be like, oh I missed the slow pace
Speaker 2: of Cali, and then maybe I'll go back. And then
Speaker 2: within three years I'll be like, I'm bored here. I'm
Speaker 2: going to go back to New York. You know, you
Speaker 2: miss what you don't have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's that's that's interesting. That is so fascinating. Man, man,
Speaker 1: you needed a chop cheese at one am. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I have to go back to the city. Oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: gracious right now. That that's really something to hear, though,
Speaker 1: I do. I hear a lot of that, that expression
Speaker 1: from a lot of people. People they love the slow
Speaker 1: pace of maybe, let's say, in this case California, especially
Speaker 1: a place like Riverside. It's so nice there. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's so relaxed, it's so it's literally the A one
Speaker 1: eighty of New York City. I mean, you wouldn't even
Speaker 1: be able to compare the two even on a similar day.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really complete opposites of each other. So
Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting to hear you say you eventually
Speaker 1: wanted to go back to the hustle and bustle and
Speaker 1: rancor that is the city. I'm curious too, then your
Speaker 1: time there, just even as a writer, how did you
Speaker 1: see your writing change or did it change when you
Speaker 1: lived in California? You know, such a different paced, slower
Speaker 1: paced environment. Did you see a difference in your poetry?
Speaker 1: You're thinking the schematic of the design of how you
Speaker 1: wrote what you wrote about.
Speaker 2: For sure, for sure, and you know to the extent
Speaker 2: that just being there affected my work. You know, like
Speaker 2: I said before, a place is important to me. I
Speaker 2: need a backdrop for what I'm writing about.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I remember walking around the campus of UCR like
Speaker 2: for the first two three weeks. You should have seen me.
Speaker 2: I was just like whoa, whoa, because it's just like
Speaker 2: succulence everywhere, you know, just like introducing yourself, like familiarize
Speaker 2: yourself with the new trees, the new plants. All of
Speaker 2: a sudden, instead of you know, the rats and the roaches,
Speaker 2: it's geckos or some other lizards just like skittering about
Speaker 2: on your walk. The sunrises and the sunsets were different. Yeah, wow,
Speaker 2: like like brighter. They say that it's air pollution, but
Speaker 2: it's beautiful. So yeah, it just changed. It changed the
Speaker 2: imagery of my work. There was there was less about
Speaker 2: crowds of people and like losing yourself amongst them and
Speaker 2: wanting connection, and it was more like it was almost
Speaker 2: pastoral or pastoral leaning. That shift from you know, everything
Speaker 2: around me as a building in a crowd to everything
Speaker 2: around me are these beautiful plants and the warmth and
Speaker 2: the quiet.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, it's it's really interesting sometimes to like
Speaker 2: look at two poems of mind where one is like
Speaker 2: very clearly New York and one is very clearly like
Speaker 2: deserted California, Southern California. Yes, yeah, dramatic difference, like even
Speaker 2: in tone.
Speaker 1: Yeah wow wow. Now that to even kind of I think,
Speaker 1: to even notice that change in yourself, I think already
Speaker 1: is a bit It's completely metaphorical, but also very shows
Speaker 1: the level of self care that you have for yourself,
Speaker 1: because most people probably wouldn't be able to address the
Speaker 1: fact that they were going through that type of change.
Speaker 1: Like you said, even seeing like the suck of us,
Speaker 1: I mean just even lizards on the wall. Those those
Speaker 1: are things people don't even notice when they go to
Speaker 1: a different place. You know. The fact that you're able
Speaker 1: to kind of recognize and do that kind of internal
Speaker 1: self reflection that even you know, just the way how
Speaker 1: you were seeing things, you're writing something, even those my
Speaker 1: new details was really all changing because of your environment.
Speaker 1: That's really very amazing to hear. So tell me a
Speaker 1: little bit about your work, Kaved Kandum a fellow, that's
Speaker 1: some huge, huge, huge You're a huge deal, Miguel, that's
Speaker 1: a big, big deal. Tell me a little bit about
Speaker 1: your time there as a fellow. You know we've here.
Speaker 1: I hear stories all the time people that I know
Speaker 1: they've you know, done that fellowship. And you know, obviously
Speaker 1: you have some very very elite company from a lot
Speaker 1: of amazing folks that have tooken that that pledge before you.
Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about your time as
Speaker 1: a fellow there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I yeah, I got the news that
Speaker 2: I got accepted for my first retreat last year.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And I I I was actually flabbergasted because I graduated
Speaker 2: from the MFA in twenty twenty and I had a
Speaker 2: peer there who was a year ahead of me. Her
Speaker 2: name is Jasmine Elizabeth Smith, fantastic, brilliant poet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you.
Speaker 2: Know we were the only two black poets there.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And you know, before she graduated, she was telling me
Speaker 2: over and over reply a plata Cave, Please applat to Cove.
Speaker 2: You have to apply to Cove all the time, but
Speaker 2: tell me to do so. She graduates, I start my
Speaker 2: second year of the MFA, and you know, the year
Speaker 2: becomes twenty twenty and then suddenly it's a pandemic, so
Speaker 2: that Cove was canceled. I believe the cove after that
Speaker 2: was also canceled, and so in twenty twenty two they
Speaker 2: had to bring bring in the people that were accepted
Speaker 2: initial for twenty twenty, so they were not accepting applications
Speaker 2: for that year. So I applied for the twenty twenty
Speaker 2: three conference, and that was my first time applying, and
Speaker 2: I was just astounded that I got in. But I
Speaker 2: think I was more shocked when I got there, how
Speaker 2: amazing it was, like genuinely how amazing, Like it filled
Speaker 2: my heart, like, you know, for for all the good
Speaker 2: that the MFA did for me, I learned a lot.
Speaker 2: I met, you know, peers and friends that I'm going
Speaker 2: to hold on to forever my work grew. I think
Speaker 2: it's always going to be the case for most people.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've heard anyone disagree with this idea.
Speaker 2: The MFA is never what you expected today. You imagine
Speaker 2: something a little I don't know, idyllic. You imagine some
Speaker 2: sort of like artistic heaven the MFA, But it's not
Speaker 2: exactly that. Speaking for myself, Covid was exactly that, you know,
Speaker 2: like all of those poets were gifted and kind and sweet,
Speaker 2: and they hold you tenderly. You know I have social anxiety,
Speaker 2: and that dissipated in a day. Wow, I was talking
Speaker 2: to everybody, and everybody was talking to me like I
Speaker 2: wasn't nervous anymore. I wasn't scared to share my stuff.
Speaker 2: I wasn't scared to talk about anything. It was beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 2: Last year, it was, you know, one of the greatest
Speaker 2: weeks of my life. I went again this past summer
Speaker 2: again one of the greatest weeks of my life.
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, Now those are such heavy but also beautiful words.
Speaker 1: I feel like in most of those, in situations like that,
Speaker 1: where you're with like the elite of the elite, the
Speaker 1: top of your class that you're you know, those are
Speaker 1: the top people in your in your sport, right in
Speaker 1: your arena, in your craft, in your art. I think
Speaker 1: usually people they find themselves with that intense imposter syndrome,
Speaker 1: you know, where it's like, dang, everyone I thought I
Speaker 1: was talented, I get everyone else is talented. People also
Speaker 1: can walk and shoot them at the same time, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. People, You know, people are just
Speaker 1: as good or even not even better, right, And it's
Speaker 1: so it must have been such a great feeling, Like
Speaker 1: you said, it wasn't like it was an environment that
Speaker 1: was everyone's gifts were just flowing with each other like
Speaker 1: a circle. Right like you said it was you felt full.
Speaker 1: I mean that must have been. I mean, yeah, you said,
Speaker 1: greatest week of your life. I mean, what do you
Speaker 1: think it fostered that type of environment at that kave
Speaker 1: kanem as opposed to you know that intense imposter syndrome
Speaker 1: people that are so great When people gather together in
Speaker 1: those types of environments, it tends to be a little off.
Speaker 1: People do feel that anxiety. What made this so different,
Speaker 1: you think?
Speaker 2: I mean a number of things I can name, and
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's a lot more that I wouldn't even
Speaker 2: be able to put my finger on. But I feel
Speaker 2: like everyone there is just grateful to be there, and
Speaker 2: you know, like there with a sense of humility, not
Speaker 2: trying to perform or outperform. We're all there on a mission.
Speaker 2: We want our work to get better, and we want company.
Speaker 2: We want people to be able to hear us and
Speaker 2: accept us. And I think it's just a space where
Speaker 2: you know a number of the walls are torn down.
Speaker 2: Every covey begins with the opening circle, the night that
Speaker 2: everyone arrives and it's all inspiring and terrifying and sad.
Speaker 2: Everyone sits in a circle and goes around the room
Speaker 2: answering the question why are you here? However you interpret
Speaker 2: that question, and people have stories, people have experiences, people
Speaker 2: have things that they've dealt with, you know, just a
Speaker 2: few years, a few months, a few days prior to
Speaker 2: this moment, and they have stories to tell. They have
Speaker 2: things that they've dealt with. They've lost people, they've lost jobs,
Speaker 2: they've lost time. Yeah, it becomes very honest and very
Speaker 2: thorough and very beautiful. Just how vulnerable everyone gets from
Speaker 2: the jump. That's the beginning of the week. Everyone just
Speaker 2: basically confessing to what they've gone through. And I think
Speaker 2: I think that tears down the wall sufficiently for you
Speaker 2: to you know, understand, these are not these are not
Speaker 2: complete strangers to you anymore. For the rest of the week,
Speaker 2: you know what they've been through, or at least a
Speaker 2: fraction of what they've been through. Uh, And you can
Speaker 2: hold them and they can hold you having shared your
Speaker 2: own vulnerability, and that makes sharing the poems easier within
Speaker 2: your group or at the readings, or you know, just
Speaker 2: hanging out having lunch together to share a poem that
Speaker 2: you wrote, It's It's It's a nice time. The vulnerability
Speaker 2: allows us to be more open and receptive people and
Speaker 2: giving people.
Speaker 1: Now. I know we had started off this interview we
Speaker 1: had talked about your I had read all of your
Speaker 1: amazing accolades, and I remember you had said you're still
Speaker 1: fledgling with your success. Tell me where you I mean,
Speaker 1: where are you at in this day like now? I
Speaker 1: know you use the word fledgling, but where do you
Speaker 1: feel like you truly are now? I mean, are you
Speaker 1: Are you happy with where you are as as you've
Speaker 1: developed as a poet, as a writer, all these you know, again,
Speaker 1: distinguished achievements that you've been able to to surmount to
Speaker 1: get to or do you do you feel like you're
Speaker 1: at a point now where you feel comfortable, where you
Speaker 1: feel like, hey, I can, I can. I am a
Speaker 1: poet and I know it, I know this, I am
Speaker 1: a writer. Or do you still feel like there's aspects
Speaker 1: of you where you have not gone to that quote
Speaker 1: unquote mountaintop? How much? How much do you feel like
Speaker 1: you still are climbing on your journey.
Speaker 2: I feel like I've done a good amount of work
Speaker 2: fighting off the impostor syndrome. It's still there, it still
Speaker 2: comes up from time to time. I think I was
Speaker 2: lucky enough that I was able to shake off the
Speaker 2: question of am I really a poet? Back in high school.
Speaker 2: I know I've known people in their m phase questioning
Speaker 2: whether they're a poet. One of the major parts of
Speaker 2: that fight for me personally is, you know, comparing myself
Speaker 2: to others, this idea that I wanted a book, two
Speaker 2: books published before I turned thirty. I'm about to turn
Speaker 2: thirty in a month, a month from today. No book yet,
Speaker 2: no manuscript yet. And that required accepting that there's so
Speaker 2: much time, that there's just so much time. I've been
Speaker 2: working on these poems NonStop, but the manuscript is not ready.
Speaker 2: I'm going to give it it's time. I'm going to
Speaker 2: keep writing these poems until I feel ready to put
Speaker 2: them in the right order and I am confident and
Speaker 2: happy with what that manuscript is. I read an interview
Speaker 2: with Eduardo corral from a few years back when when
Speaker 2: when he released Slow Lightning, and I believe it was
Speaker 2: like like he said that it was eight years post
Speaker 2: MFA that he worked on that his first collection of poems,
Speaker 2: and he was asked about that in the interview when
Speaker 2: that was his rationale, like it needed time and I
Speaker 2: was willing to give it that time. So you know,
Speaker 2: I've I've learned to wrangle with my with my impatience.
Speaker 2: It's not a race anymore. It's it's not about me,
Speaker 2: you know, getting a book out at the same age
Speaker 2: as these other people. It's about me getting my book
Speaker 2: out on my time when I think it's ready. And
Speaker 2: in the meantime, like I'm still growing my craft, you know,
Speaker 2: like I'm still developing this work. It's not like this
Speaker 2: time is being wasted. I'm committed to only getting better. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: I patience is key. The book will be ready when
Speaker 2: it's ready. In the meantime, I'm just gonna keep writing poems.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's such a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: And I also think that's honestly, I think you may
Speaker 1: have just unlocked the key because that is so freeing.
Speaker 1: I feel for you to just say I'm on the time,
Speaker 1: it's gonna come out when it's ready to come out.
Speaker 1: I'm not. And like you said, people, I think get
Speaker 1: into this moment in this sphere of thinking I need
Speaker 1: to do this, I need to do this before this
Speaker 1: certain age. I need to hit this mark, I need
Speaker 1: to do this.
Speaker 2: Do that.
Speaker 1: And again, as cliche as it is, we look at
Speaker 1: everyone's highlight real you don't see what people have gone
Speaker 1: through to maybe where that person did something in a
Speaker 1: short amount of time, but you didn't see what they
Speaker 1: had to go through to get they solve window that
Speaker 1: they had and this is just when they had finally
Speaker 1: their time to jump on an opportunity. And it is
Speaker 1: such a freeing thing when you, like you said, wrangling
Speaker 1: in patients. Patience really is such a major key of life,
Speaker 1: because I remember I said this to a friend the
Speaker 1: other day. You know, we can you know, we can
Speaker 1: only bend the universe to our will so far. Right
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it's a big, old
Speaker 1: universe with a lot of question marks that we have
Speaker 1: no control over. You only can really control what's right
Speaker 1: in front of you and how you're dealing with things
Speaker 1: in your own life, choosing to stay, walk away from
Speaker 1: continue to be in different situations. So I think that
Speaker 1: must be such a freeing feeling to kind of just say, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm on my time. This is when my book comes out,
Speaker 1: my first whatever maybe collection all these things, this is
Speaker 1: when it's going to come out. How did you kind
Speaker 1: of reach that center of peace that I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't reach. I think it's very hard
Speaker 1: to build that mental fortitude of patients, especially in the arts.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. I I think it's once I really started
Speaker 2: noticing that my work was getting better. I think that
Speaker 2: was probably one of the biggest I guess drivers towards
Speaker 2: me being calmer and patient about the speed of my career,
Speaker 2: knowing that I am honing my craft and the signs
Speaker 2: are there, you know, like being able to see that
Speaker 2: this poem from you know, this year, I can I
Speaker 2: can read that, and I can compare it to the
Speaker 2: one that I wrote two years ago, and I much
Speaker 2: prefer this new one.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: It's proof that you are on a trajectory so long
Speaker 2: as you commit to bettering yourself, bettering your craft, making
Speaker 2: your voice stronger, expanding any aspect of the way that
Speaker 2: you write. If you're committed to that and you see
Speaker 2: the progress, you see the growth, you know, those bigger
Speaker 2: accomplishments will come. That book will put itself together at
Speaker 2: some point, but the time is being spent well. It
Speaker 2: also helps having peers. It also helps having friends that
Speaker 2: are on the same on the same path that you
Speaker 2: are trying to put that book together, trying to put
Speaker 2: their second book together, and being able to commiserate, being
Speaker 2: able to support each other, that sense of community. There
Speaker 2: were periods of time where I didn't have it, and
Speaker 2: that lack was very, very painful, and then there were
Speaker 2: times where I did have it, and I I have
Speaker 2: a lot of it now. That support system is really
Speaker 2: really important.
Speaker 1: One thousand percent. Yes, community, community means so much. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much, Miguel for sharing. It's been such a
Speaker 1: such an amazing conversation thus far. I really appreciate you
Speaker 1: opening up your words to us, heart, mind, soul, all
Speaker 1: those good things. Miguel. Miguel, we have one last question
Speaker 1: for you on the Post Speaks podcast today. Miguel, why
Speaker 1: do you need to get your words out?
Speaker 2: I I feel like this is the the most that
Speaker 2: I can give. Poetry is the activity that I enjoy
Speaker 2: the most. I think that it's it's like that art,
Speaker 2: that that making of a thing, putting those words together,
Speaker 2: making them right or as close to right as possible.
Speaker 2: That's my favorite kind of toiling. That's that's my favorite
Speaker 2: way to spend a few hours, to spend a few days,
Speaker 2: to spend a few months, and there are stories to
Speaker 2: be told. It's not just mine. You know, my story
Speaker 2: includes my sister's story, my parents' stories, my grandparents' stories.
Speaker 2: I don't know anybody else in my family that told
Speaker 2: these stories. I have peers that are telling stories. You know,
Speaker 2: of different parts of the city, different neighborhoods or something.
Speaker 2: You know, different states, different countries. I think, I think
Speaker 2: these stories, the stories of my neighbors, the stories of
Speaker 2: like the working class people of color in the Bronx,
Speaker 2: they need to be told. They need to be told.
Speaker 2: You know, they can people can try to like obscure
Speaker 2: certain histories, but like, so long as somebody is telling
Speaker 2: these stories, those people will never be gone. There is
Speaker 2: an immortalization. So it is a sense of responsibility. If
Speaker 2: you're willing to give your words to explain the hardships
Speaker 2: that people go through for living where you live, for
Speaker 2: being the color that you are, for being queer, you know,
Speaker 2: it's all worth it. It's all worth it. It's it's
Speaker 2: my biggest drive. I have to I just have to.
Speaker 1: Nice, nice, absolutely, Thank you so much, Miguel, Then thank
Speaker 1: you for sharing all of your amazing words everyone. That's
Speaker 1: why Miguel needs to use words out all right, and now, Miguel,
Speaker 1: tell us what is the rest of twenty twenty four
Speaker 1: looking for you? Right now? Obviously we got we're nswering
Speaker 1: the last chur of twenty twenty four. So what is
Speaker 1: the rest of the year looking like for you? Any events?
Speaker 1: And tell us where can folks check out all of
Speaker 1: you are amazing and beautiful work. Any websites, social media leaks,
Speaker 1: tell the folks out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. So I this Thursday, I'm actually going
Speaker 2: to be at a reading. It's like the Exquisits series.
Speaker 2: You can follow them at Exquisits BK on Instagram. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's five queer poets twelve minutes each at the Aberdeen
Speaker 2: Community Garden in Brooklyn. It's also going to be streamed.
Speaker 2: There's gonna be a zoom so you can follow them
Speaker 2: for information there. I'm looking forward to a few poems
Speaker 2: that are gonna come out of mine in the Colorado
Speaker 2: Review and three other poems in Narrative that they were
Speaker 2: named the finalist of or a finalists for their sixteenth
Speaker 2: Annual Poetry Contest. So I'm excited for those six poems
Speaker 2: to come out later this year. And I'm just going
Speaker 2: to keep writing, keep writing, keep it floor in my city.
Speaker 2: Finding open mics.
Speaker 1: Yeah absolutely. Where can we find your stuff? Any links? Website,
Speaker 1: social media?
Speaker 2: Check out I'm mmp poetry on Instagram.
Speaker 1: All right, everyone check off. All of Miguel's links will
Speaker 1: be down below in the detailed box section. No matter
Speaker 1: what platform, you listen to this amazing podcast on. Again,
Speaker 1: a big thank you, Thank you so much Miguel for
Speaker 1: joining us today on the Post Speaks Podcast.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I appreciate it absolutely.
Speaker 1: And again everyone go check off Miguel's amazing works. His
Speaker 1: links will be down below in the description box by
Speaker 1: where you listen to this podcast? Everyone, This is the
Speaker 1: Post Speaks Podcast, Like I said, the number one poetry
Speaker 1: podcast in the world. Everyone, all right, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Talk to you soon, boye bye