1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,679 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel Vaughn, barbecue editor at Texas Monthly, and this 2 00:00:09,199 --> 00:00:13,279 was Fire and Smoke, the Texas Monthly Barbecue podcast, brought 3 00:00:13,279 --> 00:00:17,399 to you by YETI. So I traveled to cloud Craft, 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,160 New Mexico, recently, had to fly out to El Paso 5 00:00:20,199 --> 00:00:22,960 and then drive ninety minutes to get to mad Jack's barbecue. 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,359 The funny thing is I had already eaten there before. 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,600 It's just when mad Jack had a food truck in Lockhart, Texas. 8 00:00:30,239 --> 00:00:32,719 It was funny because I asked him there, did he 9 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,320 truly earn the title mad Jack by opening a barbecue 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,280 trailer in Lockhart or by opening a Texas barbecue joint 11 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,600 out in New Mexico. He said he thinks it was 12 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,520 probably in Lockhart. But it was funny because talking to him, 13 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,520 he was obsessed with the quality of his barbecue, like 14 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,119 any pitmaster was, but he didn't feel like he was 15 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:53,759 really in the game. He wanted to move back to Texas, 16 00:00:54,039 --> 00:00:56,039 and the big reason was is he wanted to make 17 00:00:56,079 --> 00:00:59,479 the Texas Monthly Top fifty. I found that endearing and 18 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,039 it's just kind of funny to see how that list 19 00:01:03,359 --> 00:01:06,120 is held up even way out in New Mexico. So 20 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,920 let's head to New Mexico for some Lockhart style barbecue. 21 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,560 Kirk Jackson didn't like banks. For years, unbeknownst to his family, 22 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,680 he stuffed cash into tackle boxes, jars, and toolboxes and 23 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:21,879 hid them in the trunk of a junked out nineteen 24 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:26,000 seventy one Mercury Montigo. It sat behind his car lot 25 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,920 in Lockhart, Texas for decades, along with all the other 26 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,599 trade ends he couldn't auction off. Just before Jackson's death 27 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,719 in twenty fourteen, he motioned from his hospital bed to 28 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,040 his son James, to come closer. Whatever you do, he said, 29 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:45,239 don't get rid of the seventy one Mercury Montigo. A 30 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,480 year later, after James found the stash of cash inside, 31 00:01:48,879 --> 00:01:51,640 he used his portion to open a barbecue joint in 32 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:56,560 New Mexico. Mad Jack's Mountaintop Barbecue opened in twenty fifteen. 33 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,319 On the main drag through the town of Cloudcroft, amongst 34 00:02:00,359 --> 00:02:03,480 the conifer trees and the winding mountain roads, you can 35 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,400 look down upon the gleaming White Sands National Park. The 36 00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:10,479 Texas border is just ninety minutes away, but it takes 37 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,840 James Jackson eleven hours to get back to his home 38 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:14,479 of Lockhart. 39 00:02:14,719 --> 00:02:17,319 Speaker 2: About every six to eight weeks. I go back to Lockhart, 40 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,759 get a little post Oak. You can't have good Central 41 00:02:19,759 --> 00:02:22,840 Texas barbecue without some good Central Texas post Oak, and 42 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,759 I'll go by Christ's Marketing, visit old friend Roy Perris, 43 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,719 and pick up five six hundred pounds of sausage. Then 44 00:02:28,719 --> 00:02:31,919 I always stopped by to see my kids. That's been 45 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,639 the hardest thing about being so far from Lockhart is 46 00:02:34,879 --> 00:02:37,960 missing my family. So I'll stop buying and see my children, 47 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,680 my son Johnny, my daughter Mallory, and I have a 48 00:02:40,719 --> 00:02:42,599 half sister in Austin, and I'll stop buy and say 49 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:43,159 hi to her. 50 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: Jackson didn't have a job when he graduated high school 51 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,360 in nineteen eighty, so he started working with his father 52 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,439 at the Chrysler Plymouth Dodge dealership. 53 00:02:50,599 --> 00:02:52,039 Speaker 2: So I thought, you know, I'll go help dad for 54 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,120 a year or two until I've kind of figured it 55 00:02:54,159 --> 00:02:56,719 all out. I thought I'd end up going to college, 56 00:02:56,719 --> 00:02:59,439 but ended up staying for thirty years helping dad, So 57 00:02:59,759 --> 00:03:02,479 stay there a lot longer than I intended, but had 58 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,680 a lot of French benefits. I was able to leave 59 00:03:04,719 --> 00:03:06,479 get away if I need to go see my kids 60 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,159 in a school play or such, and I got to 61 00:03:09,199 --> 00:03:10,919 be with my dad for thirty years every day, so 62 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:11,639 that was kind of cool. 63 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: When the government bailed out Chrysler, they liquidated many small dealerships, 64 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:17,759 including the one in Lockhart. 65 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 2: So my dad lost his franchise in nine and we 66 00:03:20,479 --> 00:03:24,520 started doing just used vehicles, mostly pickup trucks, And you 67 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,000 know that was I think that was a nail in 68 00:03:27,039 --> 00:03:28,639 the coffin. I really didn't want to be a used 69 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,919 car dealer. And the trailer scene in Austin had taken off, 70 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,479 and the light bulb went off my head thought of 71 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,199 maybe I'd try something different. As a teenager, I'd worked 72 00:03:36,199 --> 00:03:39,000 at Black's Barbecue, and I think I just had maybe 73 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,479 a little bit of that in my blood, going in 74 00:03:40,479 --> 00:03:43,080 and out of those old historic barbecue joints my whole life. 75 00:03:43,159 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: He always had a love of barbecue from growing up 76 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,360 in the barbecue capital of Texas, so we figured why 77 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,639 not just open a barbecue joint of his own. He'd 78 00:03:50,639 --> 00:03:53,039 never cooked a brisket, but at least he knew what 79 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,800 the good stuff tasted like. Jackson bought a barbecue trailer 80 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,199 in twenty twelve. He barked it next to a gas 81 00:03:59,199 --> 00:04:02,800 station along high Way three in Lockhart, and used the 82 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,800 best barbecue in Lockhart east of one eighty three as 83 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,879 the tagline, as all the other famous barbecue spots in 84 00:04:08,919 --> 00:04:11,879 town were west of the highway. He was entering an 85 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,759 ultra competitive market in a small town with four other 86 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,199 famous barbecue spots, and naming his trailer mad Jack's seemed 87 00:04:19,199 --> 00:04:22,680 an appropriate way to reflect that. He read as much 88 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,480 as he could about cooking brisket, watched the Barbecue with 89 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,439 Franklin videos, and even emailed Aaron Franklin about barbecue, who 90 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,040 answered nearly all his questions. 91 00:04:31,399 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 2: I had to give him credit because he answered everything 92 00:04:33,759 --> 00:04:35,680 I ever asked him. And I know he has to 93 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,920 be a crazy busy guy, but he helped me out 94 00:04:38,959 --> 00:04:41,240 a lot. I mean, watching his YouTube videos. People are 95 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,319 kind of They usually think I'm joking when I tell 96 00:04:43,399 --> 00:04:44,920 him this how to learn how to barbecue, But that 97 00:04:44,959 --> 00:04:45,759 helped me quite a bit. 98 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: He was doing a good business in Lockhart and could 99 00:04:48,959 --> 00:04:52,199 even count Roy Perez, the famous Krit's Market pitmaster, as 100 00:04:52,199 --> 00:04:55,360 a fan. But the city of Lockhart had other ideas. 101 00:04:56,199 --> 00:04:58,399 The city made it hard to operate as a food truck. 102 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,519 They required permanent bathroom, so he built some then more 103 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,360 issues came to light. Jackson felt like every time he 104 00:05:05,399 --> 00:05:08,160 had dressed an item on the city's wish list, something 105 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:12,079 else came up about proper drainage or electrical service. It 106 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,319 became untenable, so he shut the business down and began 107 00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:18,800 looking for a new location. At the same time, his 108 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,120 father's health was failing. James and his brother Mark were 109 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,319 making frequent visits to the hospital, and on the final visit, 110 00:05:25,399 --> 00:05:28,160 their father, Kirk, told him about the mercury and the 111 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,680 riches it held. After Kirk passed away, Mark used his 112 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,120 share of the cash to buy a vacation home in Cloudcroft, 113 00:05:34,399 --> 00:05:37,319 where the family had spent many trips, and James I 114 00:05:37,319 --> 00:05:39,600 had a two story building on the main road through town. 115 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,600 When the price on the building dropped, he scooped it 116 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:47,439 up and had a new home for mad Jack's. I 117 00:05:47,519 --> 00:05:49,639 was there on a Thursday, so the line was shorter 118 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,160 than what they see on weekends, but it still reached 119 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,720 the porch soon after the eleven am opening. Jackson said 120 00:05:55,759 --> 00:05:58,240 the line can take up to two hours and stretches 121 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,879 back to another barbecue joint that's just two doors down. 122 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:03,920 The owner of that joint comes outside and tries to 123 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,199 convince folks to get out of the line, but they wait. 124 00:06:06,959 --> 00:06:09,439 Mad Jackson now has a reputation to uphold right. 125 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 2: I moved to cloud Croft. You know, I knew we 126 00:06:11,199 --> 00:06:14,120 had Holloman Air Force Base nearby, but I had no 127 00:06:14,319 --> 00:06:16,480 idea what kind of effect is going to have on 128 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,199 our business. We get dozens of guys from Holloman. Guys 129 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,360 and gals from Holloman Air Force Base all the time, 130 00:06:22,519 --> 00:06:24,439 and their families that come in from all over the 131 00:06:24,439 --> 00:06:27,639 country to visit their children, and so we see those 132 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,800 guys all the time. And the amount of visitors we 133 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,680 had from Texas is incredible. I think about sixty five 134 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,360 percent of the homes in cloud Croft are owned by Texans. 135 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,160 So they get a big kick out of finding Central 136 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,319 Texas style barbecue At nine thousand feet up in the 137 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,040 Sacramento Mountains of New Mexico. 138 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,519 Speaker 1: There's a sign on the door warning customers that the 139 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,639 barbecue might run out before closing time. 140 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 2: It took a little while from to adapt to that. 141 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,519 You know, us here in Central Texas, it's not a 142 00:06:56,639 --> 00:06:58,639 big deal. We kind of know some of the best 143 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,360 places do run out at the afternoon. It was mostly 144 00:07:02,399 --> 00:07:05,720 the locals there that really were confused about it and 145 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,120 didn't understand why we would close at three. But to 146 00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:11,519 keep the quality where it needs to be, I think 147 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:12,480 that's the only way to do it. 148 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: He has to teach a new Mexico clientele about the 149 00:07:15,759 --> 00:07:20,560 Texas barbecue experience, which might require standing in line. It 150 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,879 also may mean that they can't get everything that they'd like. 151 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,759 Once they reached the chopping block, that's where Jackson and 152 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,720 his team slice every item to order, with the jn R. 153 00:07:28,839 --> 00:07:32,439 Smoker sitting behind them as a backdrop. I tried a 154 00:07:32,439 --> 00:07:35,639 little of everything. After a bite of the brisket and sausage, 155 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,240 I commended Jackson for being a great ambassador for Texas barbecue. 156 00:07:39,639 --> 00:07:42,319 He nailed the brisket with a hefty bark, good smoke, 157 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,680 and just the right amount of tenderness. It would certainly 158 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,040 hold up in Lockhart today. Chrits would also be proud 159 00:07:49,079 --> 00:07:50,959 of how juicy their links were coming out of Mad 160 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,680 Jack's smoker. I also enjoyed a slice of smoke turkey, 161 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,959 and all the sides were commendable, especially that potato salad 162 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,519 and the creamy mac and cheese. Thankfully, the menu isn't 163 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,839 pure Texas. There are some New Mexico touches, like the 164 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,720 Chili the Kid sandwich with rough chunks of brisket mixed 165 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,920 with chopped green chilies on a buttered bun. The sweetness 166 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:13,680 of the bun and the heat from the chilies are 167 00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:17,639 nicely balanced, and the smoky salty brisket is as good 168 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,360 chopped as it is sliced. The sandwich is a nice 169 00:08:21,399 --> 00:08:25,040 nod to New Mexico. Jackson says he still hasn't mastered ribs, 170 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,680 and I told him that I agreed. Stepping into Mad 171 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,800 Jacks felt like stepping into a Texas barbecue joint, despite 172 00:08:31,839 --> 00:08:35,240 that we were in New Mexico. The layout, the cutting block, 173 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,480 and just the feel of the place was right. Lockhart 174 00:08:38,519 --> 00:08:40,840 money funded the place, and some of it still serves 175 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,559 as decoration too. Some bills hadn't been stored properly in 176 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,120 that old mercury, and Jackson keeps those jars full of 177 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,039 rotted out cash as mementos. If you ask nicely, he'll 178 00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:54,240 bring them down from the rafters for a closer look. 179 00:08:56,159 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: You know, I'm fifty six years old and I'm not 180 00:08:58,879 --> 00:09:00,559 gonna do this. You know, forever, I wish i'd have 181 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,759 started barbecuing earlier in my life. I would I could 182 00:09:03,799 --> 00:09:05,840 think I would like to make it clearer that I 183 00:09:05,879 --> 00:09:08,559 appreciate from my dad, leave me in a position to 184 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,120 where I could chase the stream. And Dad's gone now, 185 00:09:12,159 --> 00:09:15,480 but I really wish he could see all the attention 186 00:09:15,519 --> 00:09:17,480 of my place has gotten. We've gotten to meet the 187 00:09:17,519 --> 00:09:20,759 Chief of Staff of the Air Force and been nominated 188 00:09:20,759 --> 00:09:23,360 for Restaurant Tour of the Year twice in New Mexico already, 189 00:09:23,399 --> 00:09:25,679 and we've had a lot of pats on my shoulder. 190 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:27,039 I think my dad would have really got a kick 191 00:09:27,039 --> 00:09:28,679 out of I wish he could have seen that. 192 00:09:29,399 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: I figured after three years he'd be happy with his 193 00:09:32,039 --> 00:09:36,039 success in cloudcraft, but Jackson shared a goal to surprise. 194 00:09:35,799 --> 00:09:38,639 Speaker 2: Me, you know, if I can master my poor grids, 195 00:09:38,879 --> 00:09:41,559 which just recently we've made some changes and we're really 196 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,200 headed in the right direction. I'm very tempted to come 197 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,360 back and do something in Texas, even and Lockhart. We've 198 00:09:49,360 --> 00:10:04,360 got to make sure Lockhart stays at barbecue capital in Texas. Texas. 199 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,039 Speaker 1: Barbecue is built from the ground up, from the wood 200 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,039 to the smoke to the meat. You have to have 201 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,639 the right tools to create a masterpiece on butcher paper 202 00:10:12,399 --> 00:10:15,720 YETI coolers have you covered? Built to be indestructible, keep 203 00:10:15,759 --> 00:10:18,559 ice for days, and keep a brisket hot for hours. 204 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,320 Yetti is built for Texas barbecue. You've been listening to 205 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:28,000 the Fire and Smoke Texas Monthly's barbecue podcast. I'm Daniel Vaughn, 206 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,519 working with producer Brian Standeford, and I'll see you out 207 00:10:31,519 --> 00:10:32,720 there on the barbecue trail.