Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, It's me and Courtney. Courtney gonna say hello, right,
Speaker 1: So we wanted to have a chat, have a conversation
Speaker 1: with some really cool co host of their own show,
Speaker 1: Elephant in the room, and without further ado, we would
Speaker 1: like to talk to them. Please bring them to the
Speaker 1: stagey DJ's hanging in the background. Today is a little busy,
Speaker 1: so and Courtney's on the road. So it's an interesting
Speaker 1: day today. But so can you guys tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about your show?
Speaker 2: Harry, I, why didn't you start?
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, I knew you were going to do that. Yeah, no,
Speaker 3: of course.
Speaker 4: So I was kind of in the UFO Twitter space
Speaker 4: for a while, and Chris was too, and I had
Speaker 4: kind of dabbled off and on with my own sort
Speaker 4: of YouTube channel. I'd done a little bit of blogging
Speaker 4: here and there just about the topic, and from there
Speaker 4: I was just sort of feeling stuck and I wasn't sure,
Speaker 4: you know, what I was going to do next and
Speaker 4: where my journey was going to take me. And then
Speaker 4: out of the blue one day Chris dms me and
Speaker 4: says basically just said, hey, I have a crazy idea.
Speaker 4: How about you and I start a podcast? And I
Speaker 4: was like, you know what, Yes, let's do it. And
Speaker 4: so we I mean, we did not know each other
Speaker 4: at that point, and we hopped on Zoom like a
Speaker 4: week later just to kind of meet and greet and
Speaker 4: get to know each other, and we instantly knew We're like,
Speaker 4: this is the vibe. We we just had so much
Speaker 4: in common, there were synchronicities, and yeah, from there we
Speaker 4: just kind of jumped in and we talk about UFOs.
Speaker 4: We talk about all other connecting aspects, you know, consciousness,
Speaker 4: high strangeness, science, spirituality, you name it. You know, there's
Speaker 4: just so many, so many topics that are connected to
Speaker 4: the UFO phenomenon. So we just kind of like to
Speaker 4: cover it all. Although I will say that we do
Speaker 4: very much gravitate to it's the actual UFO phenomenon.
Speaker 3: So yeah, Chris, you want to add anything to that.
Speaker 2: No, I mean, that's exactly what happened. I just kind of,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I got back from actually dead from
Speaker 2: DC and it was shortly after that I just felt
Speaker 2: really like, Okay, I want to do something. I don't
Speaker 2: know what I want to do, to be honest, and
Speaker 2: I just felt like, Okay, this is something I can do,
Speaker 2: and I didn't want to do it alone, and I
Speaker 2: just I looked out and I had been, you know,
Speaker 2: obviously on Twitter for a long time, and I really
Speaker 2: felt a camaraderie with Ariel just through Twitter, and you know, honestly,
Speaker 2: I'm kind of a risk taker. So I reached out
Speaker 2: and we made the connection and and you know, we
Speaker 2: just haven't looked back. Neither of us are you know,
Speaker 2: trying to like change the world or anything with our podcast.
Speaker 2: We're really we want to number one, learn from from
Speaker 2: our guests, and it's kind of more of an exploration
Speaker 2: for ourselves, to be honest, and obviously we want to
Speaker 2: share that with the world because when I see the world,
Speaker 2: whoever in our little world wants to listen. So yeah,
Speaker 2: that's kind of where we're at with the podcast. That's
Speaker 2: kind of what generated it.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I just want to point out to those
Speaker 1: who do not know, Chris was at the hearing and
Speaker 1: I was there and I got to meet Chris and
Speaker 1: she has extremely positive energy. She's also done an interview
Speaker 1: with me before for uap MED, so she's doing a
Speaker 1: lot more than the podcast.
Speaker 2: She's just like.
Speaker 1: Feed on the ground. They're at the hearing meeting people,
Speaker 1: you know, putting her information out to like get this
Speaker 1: progress that we were all hoping to have with this topic. Right, So,
Speaker 1: I don't know Courtney, Courtney's able to chime in or not. Courtney,
Speaker 1: is there something you wanted to ask?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I swear Courtney's there, She'll be back, okay. So okay,
Speaker 1: So the next thing I wanted to ask you guys
Speaker 1: about the show is in this exploration that you're doing together,
Speaker 1: what is sort of like standing out for you is
Speaker 1: something that people should be focusing on more like in
Speaker 1: this topic, Like you mentioned consciousness, that one's sort of like,
Speaker 1: you know, controversial for people. But what is like really
Speaker 1: like this this is something we really need to dig
Speaker 1: into more.
Speaker 4: I the first thing that comes to mind for me is,
Speaker 4: you know, I have not dug too far into the
Speaker 4: work of Jacques Vallet, but I'm just you know, I'm
Speaker 4: aware of what his you know, the brief overview at it,
Speaker 4: and you know his his idea is that we need
Speaker 4: to look and we need to try to find a
Speaker 4: way to account for all of the aspects of the
Speaker 4: UFO phenomenon that we sometimes brush aside, you know, even
Speaker 4: things like you know, missing time, you know, things like that,
Speaker 4: or just orbs or you know, entities and just strange
Speaker 4: high strangeness that often accompanies a quote unquote nuts and
Speaker 4: bolts sighting.
Speaker 3: We need to find a way to account for that.
Speaker 4: And you know, I know he's a proponent of the
Speaker 4: interdimensional theory and he thinks that maybe that is something
Speaker 4: that can account for, you know, grouping everything together. But
Speaker 4: I think that's something that some people tend to shy
Speaker 4: away from, is they want to just focus on the
Speaker 4: nuts and bolts. But once you really get into this topic,
Speaker 4: you realize that there's just so much more to it
Speaker 4: and we can't just keep brushing that high strangeness stuff aside.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I think that's I remember when when
Speaker 2: I first got on UFO Twitter, it was like in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one and spaces were just starting and we
Speaker 2: jump onto spaces and I remember we would call it
Speaker 2: the WU. Back then, you know, it was like no
Speaker 2: one wanted to talk about the WU, but a few
Speaker 2: of us wanted to like go there because there were
Speaker 2: their experiences included high strangeness. But now I do see it.
Speaker 2: It's more common as a topic that people are willing
Speaker 2: to engage. But I think from a like a scientific perspective,
Speaker 2: it's going to be very difficult for that shift to
Speaker 2: happen because of the scientific method, and it's very difficult
Speaker 2: to repeat right these types of events. But I mean, honestly,
Speaker 2: there's so much hope I think. And I just saw
Speaker 2: that episode last night of Ross Coltheart. I don't know
Speaker 2: if you guys saw it, and I apologize because I
Speaker 2: don't know the man's name, but he had one of
Speaker 2: the scientists from Skinwalker Ranch, like the early the bass
Speaker 2: ASA program, Skinwalker Ranch, guy on and he talked about
Speaker 2: a study and court you may be familiar with this
Speaker 2: of like six hundred patients where they've got correlation data
Speaker 2: from like three data points with personal devices. These these
Speaker 2: individuals where and record not only like biological like body response,
Speaker 2: but environmental response, and then they also have anecdotal experiences.
Speaker 2: So three out of thousands of patients, they didn't they
Speaker 2: only picked the ones that had these three data points,
Speaker 2: which they had several that had like two data points,
Speaker 2: which was still a strong, you know, correlation, but they
Speaker 2: didn't accept that. So I'm just starting to see that
Speaker 2: there's just there is more data out there. Than we
Speaker 2: were aware of than has been made public, and those
Speaker 2: types of studies are taking into account the anecdotal data
Speaker 2: that identifies the high strangeness, you know, the experience. Or
Speaker 2: they did a great case study there where they showed
Speaker 2: you know, this experience are waking up and saying, oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, like if I was ever abducted, it was
Speaker 2: last night, and they were able to correlate it with
Speaker 2: the other two data points to like the second it's
Speaker 2: just amazing, what's happening, what's starting to happen? I think anyway,
Speaker 2: that was.
Speaker 5: Jim Sigala study, Chris, I think that you're talking about,
Speaker 5: and they did they did like a multiple prong approach
Speaker 5: where they gave the experiencers and correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 5: But I read through all the slides and everything, and
Speaker 5: I've been following the data that's come out from that.
Speaker 5: But what I thought was really novel in that research
Speaker 5: is they gave them like a personal a personal device
Speaker 5: to take with them to work and also in their home.
Speaker 5: And one of the things that they found was there
Speaker 5: was twenty two times the gamma ray signature out of
Speaker 5: their sensor data with the experiencers. So I thought that
Speaker 5: that was really interesting. I didn't get to watch the
Speaker 5: recent video, but I really like their the way they're
Speaker 5: the way they're collecting their data, and how they're doing it.
Speaker 5: He did a really interesting study, so I'm waiting to
Speaker 5: hear more about it. I've asked a couple people who
Speaker 5: we've had on CAV about that data, and they've all
Speaker 5: just said, asked Jim. So I need to go to
Speaker 5: Jim and ask how he did the Gamma ray collection,
Speaker 5: because that, to me is the most interesting part so far.
Speaker 2: Well, and it sounds like we can purchase this device
Speaker 2: from him, so, I mean, I have no idea how
Speaker 2: much it is, but I was definitely tempted to look
Speaker 2: it up because you know, like Jared on UFO Twitter
Speaker 2: and he's doing a project that that incorporates different like
Speaker 2: EEG data, He's trying to study the same thing, and
Speaker 2: it's just like, well, there's already somebody out there doing
Speaker 2: some of this. This is really interesting, and it's it's
Speaker 2: it's yeah, I don't know. I just found that that recent.
Speaker 5: Who is that individual?
Speaker 1: Can you say his name again? I'm sure I'm aware
Speaker 1: of him.
Speaker 2: Dr BO D D A y A R B O.
Speaker 2: I think on Twitter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've actually interviewed him as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he works Joel from the Future Future folk
Speaker 2: your folklore, I got your girl, thank you. There goes
Speaker 2: my name thing my my brain. But yeah, anyways, he's
Speaker 2: he's doing some early investigations in that manner. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just really interesting where it's going. So I agree, Areel,
Speaker 2: that is something that needs to be addressed and from
Speaker 2: a multi you know, multi dimensional uh way, we need
Speaker 2: to approach the topic because there's just too many, too
Speaker 2: many fingers, you know, too many areas and impacts and
Speaker 2: uh we can't ignore the anecdotal and the like you said, the.
Speaker 1: I say, my favorite part about this so is like
Speaker 1: people try to say there's one fight or the other,
Speaker 1: but it is possible to merge them with things like that.
Speaker 1: And by the way, the device, there's one called the Muse.
Speaker 1: They're not sponsoring me, but it's on Amazon. I seen
Speaker 1: mixed reviews about it, but supposedly it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: you can just read your own brain waves at home,
Speaker 1: and I was fascinated by it. And when they did
Speaker 1: use something similar at Skinwalker ranch On. I can't remember
Speaker 1: his name either, I have probably yes, thank you I'm surprised.
Speaker 2: I remember it only because I recently.
Speaker 1: Watched it talked about the theta brain wave state, and
Speaker 1: the theta brain wave sate is fascinating because that's the
Speaker 1: one where people will have like these epiphanies of great ideas.
Speaker 1: It's also the one that's when people are meditating their
Speaker 1: each sure having deep prayer. So I feel like if
Speaker 1: we meditate or have deep prayer, we're going to have
Speaker 1: like these deep revelations if we access that data brain
Speaker 1: wave state. So it is interesting how often, like when
Speaker 1: we put science to the woo, there's actually something underneath
Speaker 1: it that can be helpful to everyone. So I agree
Speaker 1: it's cool.
Speaker 2: Very much.
Speaker 1: So, So I wanted to ask, now that you guys
Speaker 1: have been underway with this exploration and you've identified some
Speaker 1: of the things that really need to be looked at,
Speaker 1: what still strikes you it's just like really weird, Like
Speaker 1: what is just like too weird for you at this point,
Speaker 1: or or like something that makes you go what oh,
Speaker 1: Because sometimes we hit something that even I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I don't know if I
Speaker 1: want to go down that rabbit hole. But what is
Speaker 1: it that you guys are dealing with.
Speaker 2: That's a great question, Ariel, do you have anything yet,
Speaker 2: because I mean, to me, there's a few things.
Speaker 3: I feel I don't know.
Speaker 4: For me, time traveling humans gets me every time, Like
Speaker 4: when that theory is brought up.
Speaker 3: My brain, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I just I feel like that would just fundamentally because yes,
Speaker 4: visitors from another planet. Absolutely, that would fundamentally change everything too.
Speaker 4: I'm not saying that wouldn't you know, be just crazy,
Speaker 4: but being able to travel time, I mean that would
Speaker 4: just that would change everything, and that would really just
Speaker 4: even change how we like good history in the past.
Speaker 3: I mean it would just I don't know.
Speaker 4: That just for me is something that is kind of
Speaker 4: blows my mind to think about when that theory gets
Speaker 4: brought up.
Speaker 2: That's a really good one. Yeah, for me, I think
Speaker 2: I think the thing I personally struggle with the most
Speaker 2: is the.
Speaker 5: Oh no, we we understand, no big Well.
Speaker 3: What about you guys, what's your strength? What's like, what's yours?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: The non corporal thing. There's the theory that NYHI has
Speaker 1: gotten to the point where they don't need bodies. Oh. Yes,
Speaker 1: that one freaks me out because actually Courtney knows him
Speaker 1: Dave Scott talked about these entities entering craft to navigate them,
Speaker 1: and that freaked me out because I don't want to
Speaker 1: get trapped in a craft having to navigate it after
Speaker 1: I pass away.
Speaker 2: That's like, yeah, deep, like who thought of that?
Speaker 1: Well, it doesn't seem like it wasn't implied that it
Speaker 1: was enslavement or anything like that, but that idea freaks
Speaker 1: me out. That's one that like, if I go into
Speaker 1: that thought too much, I'm like, no, I when I
Speaker 1: pass I want to have some say and what I'm
Speaker 1: doing with my soul, you know.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 5: I think the entities coming through the wall for me
Speaker 5: is one of the hardest and it's you know, it's
Speaker 5: falls in in that whole body of work with abductions,
Speaker 5: and so I'm still one of the hardest things for
Speaker 5: me to reconcile as abductions. And I know there's a
Speaker 5: lot of I know, there's a lot of opinions about
Speaker 5: that and even you know, in Kit Green's one famous quote,
Speaker 5: he said, there are absolutely no abductions, right, And so
Speaker 5: that's one of the things that really gets to me
Speaker 5: because I go into my you know, dark thoughts at night,
Speaker 5: you know, when I'm going to bed wondering, well, what
Speaker 5: did he mean? You know, if there are no abductions,
Speaker 5: And I just saw a recent comment about it, a
Speaker 5: new take on it that I'm not ready to talk
Speaker 5: about yet. But I just was reading something as of
Speaker 5: yesterday that would kind of explain away the idea of
Speaker 5: abductions not being from the visitors but being a whole
Speaker 5: nother kind of like corporeal phenomenon. So once I look
Speaker 5: at that and can kind of tease that apart a
Speaker 5: little bit, I'll be more ready to talk about it.
Speaker 5: I just don't feel as articulate right now because I'm
Speaker 5: just coming upon it. So anyway, Yeah, abductions, the beings
Speaker 5: coming through the wall, having no control, that's one of
Speaker 5: my biggest problems.
Speaker 1: Going through the wall thing touches on my thing, like
Speaker 1: the no body like they're beyond bodies, they're at the
Speaker 1: next stage, which leads to something I brought up in
Speaker 1: a recent episode, probably the last one. What if all
Speaker 1: of us at some point are those entities and we
Speaker 1: just temporarily visit being in a body and it like
Speaker 1: goes into a hole like see that the rabbit hole.
Speaker 1: It leads to, Yeah, Chris, you didn't answer this yet.
Speaker 1: Did you come up with some of them?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, it's too hard for me to nail it
Speaker 2: down to one thing. I mean, it's not it's it's
Speaker 2: interesting because I'm hearing what you guys are saying, and
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, they don't spark any like emotion in me,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh my god, what's wrong with me?
Speaker 2: Like it might be terrified because I've thought about it
Speaker 2: a lot of times, Like I just as much as
Speaker 2: I believe, I totally believe that not only have I
Speaker 2: encountered aspects of the phenomenon, I just there's something that
Speaker 2: still blocks me from thinking I will have some sort
Speaker 2: of entity experience. I don't know why, because I believe
Speaker 2: that they do happen, and I you know, heard people
Speaker 2: out you know that I trust that I think have
Speaker 2: had these experiences. But I don't know. Maybe it's just
Speaker 2: this weird curiosity in me just to try and understand
Speaker 2: it more like it would be more, it would be
Speaker 2: more of like I mean, I'm sure I would be terrified.
Speaker 2: I'm sure it'd be horrified, but there's just this curiosity
Speaker 2: to understand it, So I don't I think the worst
Speaker 2: case scenario would obviously be if they were, you know,
Speaker 2: a manvolent invasion of some sort would be probably because
Speaker 2: that's kind of what I dreamed about as a child
Speaker 2: before I was into this phenomenon, and I was terrified
Speaker 2: of them as children as a child, and I didn't
Speaker 2: really have any other years between of really like connecting
Speaker 2: the dots. So I think that would probably be my
Speaker 2: biggest fear now that I think about it.
Speaker 1: It is always interesting to me how often children report
Speaker 1: seeing something in their room and people brush it aside
Speaker 1: and say, oh, there's nothing there, and they go and
Speaker 1: they put the flashlight under the bed. This happened to me,
Speaker 1: by the way, because I would I was so scared
Speaker 1: about something being under my bed that I would jump
Speaker 1: to my bed right so. And and I actually still
Speaker 1: don't like gnomes because I told my family that there
Speaker 1: were nomes under my bed. And to this day, I
Speaker 1: don't get why there are nomes everywhere. It's like, what
Speaker 1: is going on? Why do people have gnomes and decorations like.
Speaker 5: The little gnomes and people's lawns are like Deb's worst nightmare.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I know, go ahead, I have a couple of those, like,
Speaker 1: but this is this is a different like the little
Speaker 1: ones that are like squished that are at like, for instance,
Speaker 1: they're all over the dollar to either all over the
Speaker 1: dollar store, right, Like, why are they a thing now
Speaker 1: for every holiday?
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, I was just going to add on to
Speaker 5: you to what you said, deb that one of the
Speaker 5: things that really stood out to me when I read
Speaker 5: one of John Max's books. I'm not exactly sure which
Speaker 5: one it is right now because it's been a long
Speaker 5: time ago, but he went into the children's cases and
Speaker 5: one of the things that he said when he was
Speaker 5: talking about his abduction syndrome was that the kids were
Speaker 5: most of them, their stories were very similar. That was
Speaker 5: one of the things that I liked his analysis on that.
Speaker 5: And then he also said a lot of them are
Speaker 5: too young to have like psychiatric disorders at that point
Speaker 5: in their life, like delusional disorders or other kinds of serious,
Speaker 5: you know, psychiatric problems that they just that they don't clinically.
Speaker 5: So that was the other thing about max work that
Speaker 5: I really liked, when you talk about the kids cases
Speaker 5: and how it brought abduction syndrome into the light. So
Speaker 5: I'm not sure how many people have picked up on that,
Speaker 5: but I think the kids studies that he did were
Speaker 5: raw authenticity and validity into the field.
Speaker 1: All right, So you know, I go back to what
Speaker 1: you said before about Kit Green saying they're not abductions,
Speaker 1: and I know you don't want to say what your
Speaker 1: new information on that is and a new perspective, but
Speaker 1: you know, let's pull this out for Ariel and Chris.
Speaker 1: Do you think like this is just my take on that,
Speaker 1: maybe it's something else, like maybe it's not malevolent malevolent, sorry,
Speaker 1: but maybe it's like almost an agreement, a partnership or something.
Speaker 1: Or maybe it's back to what I say with the
Speaker 1: rabbit hole, like this is just us, we're connecting back
Speaker 1: with ourselves and like the body is just like a
Speaker 1: temporary thing. I don't know, man, the whole thing about
Speaker 1: that freaks me out. But what do you guys think?
Speaker 2: Well, I will, I might My view is a little
Speaker 2: out there, to be honest with you, but I I
Speaker 2: tend to think when you say there's an agreement, I
Speaker 2: wonder if there if there's either an agreement with someone
Speaker 2: above our pay skill that you know, if that exists
Speaker 2: or not about what they do with us, or I
Speaker 2: think deb you're probably talking about like a personal agreement.
Speaker 2: Maybe that that's the case, But is there a also
Speaker 2: or is there is it just that you know, I
Speaker 2: know it's simple, but we you know, we're the lab
Speaker 2: rats and they just we even if they explained it
Speaker 2: to us and tried to express why maybe they're doing things,
Speaker 2: we would not have a concept or understanding or ability
Speaker 2: to comprehend. I mean, it could be manevolent, it could
Speaker 2: be for our own good. They could be studying our
Speaker 2: food supply, and you know, why do they always study?
Speaker 2: I think that's a curious thing. So and I'm not
Speaker 2: saying it's okay, but I also think like we do that.
Speaker 2: We do that to our animals, We do it to
Speaker 2: our pets. We put them on tables, like we test them.
Speaker 2: We don't give them, we don't they don't give consent.
Speaker 2: You know, these are sentient beings and we make that
Speaker 2: decision for them. Is that something that could be happening
Speaker 2: to us is just another question I have.
Speaker 1: I'm like afraid to give them that role of being
Speaker 1: superior parentalfied entities, you know what I mean, Like I
Speaker 1: don't like that when and I'm saying it's not the case,
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it makes me really uncomfortable when people
Speaker 1: talk about them being superior, and I'm like, just because
Speaker 1: someone has a better car, it doesn't make them better
Speaker 1: than me. So I just it's like a self righteousness
Speaker 1: comes out.
Speaker 3: What do you think, Ariel, I tend, I tend to
Speaker 3: agree with you.
Speaker 4: I I feel like and I understand, but I don't
Speaker 4: necessarily I see levels of sentience and so we are
Speaker 4: much more sentient self aware than animals, and so like,
Speaker 4: I guess maybe you could make the case that an
Speaker 4: evolve species is you know, much more sentient than we
Speaker 4: are and could make decisions for us. However, I feel
Speaker 4: like with the self awareness that we do have, that
Speaker 4: they would need to, like we would need to give consent.
Speaker 3: I don't know. That's just kind of where I'm at
Speaker 3: with it.
Speaker 5: Well, then there's the hypothesis that it's the my labs
Speaker 5: that they're you know, they're overlaid, that there is possibly
Speaker 5: an h eye contact or an encounter, and then you know,
Speaker 5: usually after that there's you know, my lab, and you know,
Speaker 5: I have to be real honest and trans parent and
Speaker 5: say that I didn't used to believe in you know,
Speaker 5: my labs because it was just too horrifying I think
Speaker 5: for me to actually believe that our own government might
Speaker 5: be abducting. But you know, once you start to look
Speaker 5: at all the studies and things that have been done
Speaker 5: and ethically, you start to figure out real quick that
Speaker 5: it's very possible and also likely. And so I think
Speaker 5: that there is a you know, a compounded traumatic you know,
Speaker 5: layer there when you're talking about NHI encounters potentially and
Speaker 5: what that's all about. But then also the my labs.
Speaker 5: So I have heard for a lot from experiencers saying
Speaker 5: that they believe that it's the government, that one part
Speaker 5: of this is the government, And so it's horrifying, right,
Speaker 5: it's horrifying to think that that's happening, but that it's
Speaker 5: all being done supposedly, even legally right for studying the
Speaker 5: phenomenon and studying the NHI. So I have a problem
Speaker 5: with all of it actually because I think that it's
Speaker 5: it's not only consent, it's like violations right, physical, mental, emotional,
Speaker 5: and being violated and then being left with having no
Speaker 5: answers to any questions at all. And so I think
Speaker 5: that's why I have such a hard time with that
Speaker 5: part of the field of study, is because it's all unethical.
Speaker 5: It's all horrifying, and to be knowing that, you know,
Speaker 5: the my lab phenomena is real for me now has
Speaker 5: even taking me many years to process and absorb and
Speaker 5: to come to grips with it because so many people
Speaker 5: have similar experiences. So I don't know how you feel
Speaker 5: about that deb about you know, the my lab part
Speaker 5: of it. We've never really talked about that, but I
Speaker 5: imagine you probably don't.
Speaker 1: You know, we're going to bring that to the table.
Speaker 1: But before we do, and a non et, by the way,
Speaker 1: mentioned mys and the chat high and on, I just
Speaker 1: wanted to say, before we bring my labs out and
Speaker 1: some of the things that are behind that, I wanted
Speaker 1: to mention the con sent part that even if we
Speaker 1: were in some way giving consent to these entities, it's
Speaker 1: sort of like getting consent from a drunk person. Because
Speaker 1: we hear about them manipulating people with a sense that true,
Speaker 1: that such a good right, Like they get like people
Speaker 1: this wave of euphoria, right, And I'm like, that's manipulation,
Speaker 1: Like we could we don't know, Like they're suddenly feeling
Speaker 1: really happy to see this giant ship over their house.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, that there's something's not right there, like
Speaker 1: they manipulate because it's not that actually hard to do,
Speaker 1: Like they do that now with a type of therapy
Speaker 1: that's like a magnetic wand that they put over someone's head.
Speaker 1: And imagine having greater technology, like you can easily manipulate
Speaker 1: people if you know how to do it. So it's scary.
Speaker 1: So myla, I want to go a step farther down.
Speaker 5: Yeah, if you don't mind. This is something that just
Speaker 5: really gets in my craw a lot. And I am
Speaker 5: going to be controversial in saying this, but we're all
Speaker 5: women here, so we have a stake in this, and
Speaker 5: nobody ever talks about it. But I think it's time
Speaker 5: we finally start, especially as women like spearheading some of
Speaker 5: this together. And I didn't think this would come up,
Speaker 5: but it's a good segue and nobody has to make
Speaker 5: a comment on this. It's just something that I've been
Speaker 5: really upset with lately. Is I hear Danny Shean, you
Speaker 5: know on the Circuit, you know, in the podcast Circuit
Speaker 5: talking about disclosure and talking about you know, are intergalactic
Speaker 5: family and being part of citizens right of this larger universe.
Speaker 5: And one of the things that comes up crops up periodically,
Speaker 5: is that he's talking about abductions, and he talks about
Speaker 5: how if women were allowed to give their material right
Speaker 5: their give their material, then a lot of these abductions
Speaker 5: might not happen anymore because they're giving consent to give
Speaker 5: their reproductive material, and men too, And he speaks about
Speaker 5: it in a way that's like we're already there. For one,
Speaker 5: which gives me a real strong gut you know no,
Speaker 5: And then the second is that you know we we
Speaker 5: should be allowed to talk about this right, women should
Speaker 5: be allowed to have a vote and discuss this. I mean,
Speaker 5: we live in a democracy, for goodness sake, We're very
Speaker 5: lucky for that. But when I hear those concepts come up,
Speaker 5: like if women and men just were giving their reproductive material,
Speaker 5: we wouldn't be in this situation anymore. I also think
Speaker 5: that needs to be discussed, especially by women. So that's
Speaker 5: one of the things that I've been discouraged by recently
Speaker 5: on the podcast circuit when it comes up and there's
Speaker 5: no women in the room or on the podcast talking
Speaker 5: about this or addressing it, so you guys don't have
Speaker 5: to comment in it. But it's just something I see
Speaker 5: like a wave happening in the sound bites and stuff, and.
Speaker 2: It speaking to it personally, Courtney, but I can tell you, you know,
Speaker 2: my close friend who who's an abductee, is a may
Speaker 2: But one of the things they they struggled with was
Speaker 2: intimate relationships with women, especially during certain during the women's
Speaker 2: reproductive years, because it would impact them and they would
Speaker 2: have visitations and sorry, So it is something you know
Speaker 2: that even is in men's conscious awareness. I'm sure experiencers
Speaker 2: may have thought about that, and yeah, nobody's really talking
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: And there's also the equation where women are introduced to
Speaker 1: beings that are supposed to be their children. I haven't
Speaker 1: heard a lot of cases of men being introduced to
Speaker 1: those children and it doesn't go well, and it's almost
Speaker 1: treated like an experiment. And can you imagine, like I
Speaker 1: don't have this experience, but can you imagine being introduced
Speaker 1: to a child that you're not raising and that you're
Speaker 1: actually afraid of and may have somewhat scary abilities but
Speaker 1: still be partly human and want you to take care
Speaker 1: of them, but not be able to express like it's
Speaker 1: so complicated, right, Imagine you're introduced to that kid and
Speaker 1: then you're like taken away.
Speaker 5: I think that's the horror behind it. I think, honestly,
Speaker 5: I think that's the horror behind it that I have
Speaker 5: the most fear inducing like response about, you know, And
Speaker 5: I can be honest about that, that that's part of
Speaker 5: it that I've always just been the most tenuous about
Speaker 5: of all.
Speaker 1: And Chris, you were muted, but I saw you trying
Speaker 1: to chime in on that.
Speaker 2: No, I yeah, I can see that as being very
Speaker 2: difficult and dark, and I I, you know, I think
Speaker 2: I can understand, I guess having a little bit of
Speaker 2: that fear because after you know my recent experiences, you know,
Speaker 2: you start to think back over your life. And the
Speaker 2: one thing that I know is that I used to
Speaker 2: have reoccurring nightly paralysis and hear footsteps coming upstairs to
Speaker 2: my room and then I would black out and I
Speaker 2: don't remember anything else. And that was happening quite frequently,
Speaker 2: and I was pretty young at that time. I was
Speaker 2: in the Navy, and but it totally left my memory.
Speaker 2: I mean, I talked about it very actively when it
Speaker 2: was happening with my husband and my family because it
Speaker 2: was scaring me, but I didn't have any connection. So
Speaker 2: now I look back, and that is something I do
Speaker 2: think about, like what you know, was something happening that
Speaker 2: I don't know about? And I think obviously there's more
Speaker 2: fear in that unknown because my husband was leaving, he
Speaker 2: was gone. He would go to work at one in
Speaker 2: the morning at that time, so it's like me alone
Speaker 2: at home and hearing these whatsteps come up and then
Speaker 2: I black out. So I don't know if there's anything
Speaker 2: to it, but I just I think that maybe I
Speaker 2: do shut down on some of those thoughts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had to give a shout out to Geraldine
Speaker 1: who did a movie about this. I think it was
Speaker 1: called The Seating. I've spoken to her before, and that's
Speaker 1: a prave move to come out and just put this
Speaker 1: out in the open, that this is an issue that
Speaker 1: some experiencers are talking about and it's a whole ball
Speaker 1: of wax that we're not actually bringing out into the
Speaker 1: community and dealing with. Like that's traumatic and on a
Speaker 1: personal level, I did try to meditate on this, and
Speaker 1: I was kind of like given the impression that these
Speaker 1: are not children that you can nurture, like they are
Speaker 1: as needy as a human, but they can manipulate and
Speaker 1: control you and can you imagine even a human child
Speaker 1: being like that has like special telepathic abilities and can
Speaker 1: manipulate like that's a horrific it was. You're muted again, Chris.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm worried about the dogs. No, Yeah, that's hard
Speaker 2: to imagine.
Speaker 4: To be honest, I guess I would ask Danny sheehan.
Speaker 4: I mean, so he's he's saying that if we just
Speaker 4: had the ability and freedom to give our material for them,
Speaker 4: they would not abduct us. But I mean to what end?
Speaker 4: I mean, what woman is going to want to give
Speaker 4: that to them? If they're creating a hybrid race that's
Speaker 4: gonna like eventually take over the planet. You know, that's
Speaker 4: one of the theories. So I would say, how, I mean,
Speaker 4: how is that any better? I mean, I guess you're
Speaker 4: not being violated and invaded at that point, but it's
Speaker 4: still wouldn't be like the end product would still not
Speaker 4: be okay, right is?
Speaker 3: I mean? I'm confused why he.
Speaker 5: Comes up in context with the agreements that we're signed.
Speaker 5: This is the this is the context, and how it
Speaker 5: comes up, and then how how he segues into if
Speaker 5: we had, you know, the choice to give it, people
Speaker 5: would give it over He goes from the agreements that
Speaker 5: were signed with our government potentially with another with another
Speaker 5: species that you know, we're still waiting for disclosure on,
Speaker 5: and then he goes from that potential executive order that
Speaker 5: was signed that we're working with them, and so if
Speaker 5: we've been working with them, the abductions are being taken
Speaker 5: place essentially underneath that agreement that historical you know, essentially
Speaker 5: understanding or partnership between these groups, and then that's how
Speaker 5: abductions are made possible. So then he talks about if
Speaker 5: we were to change this and disclosure happens and those
Speaker 5: agreements are made public and people understand what's been going on,
Speaker 5: then he goes into well, then we could have potentially,
Speaker 5: you know, people possibly giving their reproductive material in order
Speaker 5: to prevent abduction style harvesting or gathering of reproductive material.
Speaker 5: So that's how he kind of strings it together in
Speaker 5: context like that, and in a sense you could see, okay, yeah,
Speaker 5: well that would make sense. But my problem with it
Speaker 5: is that we need to get through, essentially, if that
Speaker 5: is to happen, a truth and reconciliation process with our
Speaker 5: own government about the fact that it's happened in the
Speaker 5: first place, and then we should be able to decide
Speaker 5: rather than just proposing that as a potential alternative without
Speaker 5: even you know, discussing that. Especially with the people who
Speaker 5: have been harmed by this program.
Speaker 1: I have to say there are people who would do
Speaker 1: it one hundred percent that is correct. Like I was
Speaker 1: watching a documentary recently about some guy who has an
Speaker 1: enormous amount of children because he was cheating the system.
Speaker 1: I think it was in Norway, going around to different
Speaker 1: places to have and not charging. By the way, he
Speaker 1: wanted to have like hundreds of children for some reason.
Speaker 1: So there are people who would do it. And I'm
Speaker 1: thinking also of the lady and independence say who went
Speaker 1: on the roof with a sign. You know, she probably
Speaker 1: would have volunteered too, But that was a movie and
Speaker 1: in reality, that's not what's happening right now. People aren't
Speaker 1: being asked and it's not voluntary. And I think of
Speaker 1: a story in Artise six Killer Clerk's investigations where she
Speaker 1: asked people what happened to them, and one lady said
Speaker 1: she had to talk to these entities and say I
Speaker 1: don't want to do this, but they kind of made
Speaker 1: a deal with her and said, well stop when you're
Speaker 1: like twenty five. But it wasn't like we're stopping now
Speaker 1: when you don't want to do it. We're going to
Speaker 1: keep going, you know. And and Whitley strike. Streeper also
Speaker 1: talked about how damaging it was for him when that
Speaker 1: particular aspect was part of his experience, like he's mortified
Speaker 1: that people made fun of what happened to him. It
Speaker 1: was not voluntary. So I'm going to switch gears if
Speaker 1: if I can. I'm going to talk about my labs.
Speaker 1: Not an easier topic, by the way, but I just
Speaker 1: before I throw this around for us to chat about this,
Speaker 1: and want to bring up two things. One that some
Speaker 1: of these experiences with people who appear to be tressed
Speaker 1: as soldiers indicate that these soldiers may not actually be
Speaker 1: conscious when they're participating in this, so they may not
Speaker 1: be the villains. They may actually also be victims because
Speaker 1: there's stories about people seeing soldiers lined up and they
Speaker 1: are in a trance, so it's not just they're coming
Speaker 1: in and grabbing people. They're completely not aware of what's happening.
Speaker 1: And then the second piece was Rick Doody mentioned in
Speaker 1: the documentary that he did that some of these quote
Speaker 1: abductions are actually happening to fake people out, they're not
Speaker 1: actual abductions. So both things are happening in addition to,
Speaker 1: you know, what other people are reporting. So let's see
Speaker 1: what people want to add to that. You want to
Speaker 1: go first, Ariel, which is randomly picking.
Speaker 4: I mean, I would not be surprised to find out that,
Speaker 4: like you said, that they were under some sort of trant,
Speaker 4: some sort of drug, some sort of manipulation, that they
Speaker 4: too were a victim. I mean, I just I mean,
Speaker 4: just thinking about like about a month ago, my daughter
Speaker 4: slept walk and she slept, walked all the way downstairs,
Speaker 4: and she had no idea the next morning, you know,
Speaker 4: but she was in control to an extent, but she
Speaker 4: didn't know what she was doing at the time, and
Speaker 4: she couldn't remember. So, I mean, I just don't think
Speaker 4: that would be very hard to replicate.
Speaker 3: But I do.
Speaker 4: I think that's I think that's interesting and important to
Speaker 4: consider as something that could be going on.
Speaker 3: So I'm glad you brought that up.
Speaker 1: Chris, you want to go next.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't heard too much about the program specifically.
Speaker 2: I know my understanding is that these are usually typically abductees, right,
Speaker 2: and then the military somehow comes back and also abducts
Speaker 2: them and then tests them to see what or whatever
Speaker 2: they're doing. I'm assuming testing them and obviously under some
Speaker 2: sort of covert operation. I don't really know of anyone.
Speaker 2: I haven't really spoken to anyone who's had that experience,
Speaker 2: but I have spoken to people who have had definite
Speaker 2: like intimidation tactics by the military after being, you know,
Speaker 2: an abductee, of following, tracking, other things like that. So
Speaker 2: it wouldn't surprise me that it's going on.
Speaker 3: Isn't that what Carla Turner spoke about. Do you know?
Speaker 3: She was an abduction researcher, and.
Speaker 4: I think she spoke a lot about the military involvement,
Speaker 4: and I think she said something like she felt like
Speaker 4: the military involvement and what they did to her and
Speaker 4: her family was worse than the abductions themselves.
Speaker 5: Well, Chris, I think you were there for this. I
Speaker 5: think we were in the room together down at Contact
Speaker 5: in the desert and we were there. Were you there
Speaker 5: for the women's panel because I thought I saw you? Okay, Well,
Speaker 5: Yvonne Smith talked about this, and she said that she's
Speaker 5: seeing a recent phenomenon in her practice where she's noticing
Speaker 5: a lot more abductions recently, even in the in the
Speaker 5: last few months. And so there is this idea, you know,
Speaker 5: out in the community that abductions used to happen in
Speaker 5: the seventies, you know, and hit a peak and then
Speaker 5: you know, waaned. But she said that's not the case,
Speaker 5: that she's seeing a lot more. So I'm not you know,
Speaker 5: like commenting on the first question, but I'm wondering, deb like,
Speaker 5: has anybody heard what Yvonne because she says she has
Speaker 5: a new hypothesis about this. Has anybody heard what her
Speaker 5: new hypothesis is? Or is that too new of a
Speaker 5: research area.
Speaker 1: I don't think she even mentioned it to me when
Speaker 1: I spoke to her. I know it's too new.
Speaker 2: No, But I think, you know, just tying in some
Speaker 2: of these loose pieces on abductions, like the missing for
Speaker 2: one one, and I mean, I just you know, Native
Speaker 2: American women, I just feel like there's got to be
Speaker 2: a tie in to to where they're going. How is
Speaker 2: nobody reporting them missing? How are they just I just
Speaker 2: don't understand some of these missing person cases. And it
Speaker 2: does make me think that there's and I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's government or you know Nhi, but there's some
Speaker 2: sort of connection. I think.
Speaker 5: My sister's always constantly reminding seven thousand people missing in
Speaker 5: national parks every year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's ridiculous if you go to the number. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you go look at a missing person's page, it's
Speaker 1: extremely depressing. It's like all ages. You know, it's clearly
Speaker 1: not just you know, obviously there's some cases that involve
Speaker 1: human trafficking, but would they take people who are a
Speaker 1: certain age and beyond for human trafficking? Like, that's not
Speaker 1: what's happening to them, right, It's just excessive, and you know,
Speaker 1: it gets into really dark things. So I'm trying to
Speaker 1: switch gears again because I don't want us to go
Speaker 1: there too much. I don't even want to talk about it.
Speaker 1: But Report thirteen keeps going through my head. Why isn't
Speaker 1: that one out in the public yet? You know from
Speaker 1: blue Book? Have you guys heard about that?
Speaker 3: Oh? Tell us, Oh.
Speaker 1: It's supposedly if you look at the sequence with blue Book,
Speaker 1: fourteen is the one that's out in public, And then
Speaker 1: you go back, you see you know, one, two, three, four, whatever,
Speaker 1: But thirteen's missing, And I'm like, that's not like when
Speaker 1: they used to make elevators and being superstitious, Right, it's
Speaker 1: missing for a reason. There's a rumor and some people
Speaker 1: have said they've seen it, that it goes into really
Speaker 1: dark things that have happened to humans, and that it
Speaker 1: may eventually come out.
Speaker 5: Oh wow, were you suspecting deb along with that rumor
Speaker 5: with the other rumor that we heard that some classified
Speaker 5: Project Blue Book files might come out in the declassification
Speaker 5: through the through the archiving process or is that separate it?
Speaker 1: Maybe? And maybe that's where thirteen is right and super
Speaker 1: classified because if you guys have read Rubolt's book, he
Speaker 1: said that some files he couldn't even process, they couldn't
Speaker 1: even investigate, they took them from him. He also said
Speaker 1: that others that involved you know, entities often got tossed
Speaker 1: in the trash, that they didn't want to talk about it,
Speaker 1: that they he definitely didn't really get to investigate a
Speaker 1: lot of those, right. So yeah, it's it's pretty much
Speaker 1: a trend. You notice in looking at Foya's Blue Book
Speaker 1: that that's minimized.
Speaker 5: Wow, I think it's ongoing. I mean, I know you
Speaker 5: guys know this, but you know, at the Soul Symposium
Speaker 5: that was one of the things that was told to
Speaker 5: Whitley Streeper because he wanted to be able to talk
Speaker 5: right about his experience and being an experiencer and being
Speaker 5: someone in this field for so long raising awareness about
Speaker 5: these topics, and he was just told, look, it's not
Speaker 5: palatable for DC. We're not even bringing up experience or issues.
Speaker 5: And so it's ongoing, right, I mean, it's we're still
Speaker 5: experiencing this moratorium on ex experience or issues. But I
Speaker 5: think that's really where the battle is at, to be honest,
Speaker 5: is the human encounters.
Speaker 1: I think it's also something Courtney and I have worked
Speaker 1: on before, is just trying to prepare people for this
Speaker 1: reality because you know, at some point in time, like
Speaker 1: I still know people who do not believe that there
Speaker 1: could be life on other planets, Like they cannot wrap
Speaker 1: their brain around that. And there's people who don't understand
Speaker 1: that we're already hybrid humans. And I'm not talking about
Speaker 1: necessarily an hi. I'm saying we have multiple types of
Speaker 1: humanoids in our blood right now, and like they can't
Speaker 1: understand that we used to coexist next to other intelligent beings,
Speaker 1: Like there's this huge ego thing they like they just
Speaker 1: can't grasp it. Like you see people resisting AI intelligence
Speaker 1: and it freaks them out if it like the AI
Speaker 1: looks human, you know, so I can't imagine. So that's
Speaker 1: something we're concerned about too. It's just getting everyone on
Speaker 1: board and ready.
Speaker 2: And how do you do that. It's like this impossible
Speaker 2: task of like I don't even know, because I mean,
Speaker 2: I you know, I talk about it obviously regularly, and
Speaker 2: I have family members, you know, Mom, they'll talk to
Speaker 2: me about this. I don't and the things you mentioned,
Speaker 2: and you know, going through the walls and you know,
Speaker 2: female issues, those are all the things that scare her
Speaker 2: as as they should. And so but but then what
Speaker 2: do I say, Because in a weird way, I do
Speaker 2: feel that some of my experiences were positive, not necessarily,
Speaker 2: like I didn't have an encounter with a being and
Speaker 2: I didn't have, you know, anything traumatic like that happened
Speaker 2: to me. So I can't speak like other people, but
Speaker 2: I feel like the process that happened to me as
Speaker 2: a result of the sightings and as a result of
Speaker 2: my encounters, the change in my consciousness and the shift
Speaker 2: in like how I see the world, and that is
Speaker 2: the part that I think I value out of the
Speaker 2: whole thing, even though it was very painful going through it,
Speaker 2: There's something about it I value, I think, so it's
Speaker 2: kind of hard not to talk about it, right.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm thinking about David Grush talking about
Speaker 1: like this huge styop that has happened with us, right,
Speaker 1: Like is a society and you see it all the time.
Speaker 1: Here's an example. My dad used to work at the Pentagon,
Speaker 1: So I asked him, Hey, Dad, can you tell me
Speaker 1: about those underground bases. I'm just curious. And it's like,
Speaker 1: of course we have underground bases. And then he said,
Speaker 1: we have to stop talking about this. You're going to
Speaker 1: ruin your career. Like he has never said that this
Speaker 1: is real, like, of course, not right, but he has
Speaker 1: definitely said this is career ending conversations. And then ten
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes later, my sister was talking about a ghost
Speaker 1: tour and he was all in on that conversation. That's
Speaker 1: a weird psychology thing. What about the conversation we just
Speaker 1: had outside about UFOs. Why is that a career ending conversation?
Speaker 1: But we're cool with ghosts, Like everyone's cool with ghost tours, right,
Speaker 1: that's a public thing. If we had like Melinda Leslie's
Speaker 1: tour everywhere in every town, like we have ghost tours
Speaker 1: would be cool.
Speaker 5: Probably, I'm thinking of turning my Montana property into the
Speaker 5: Montana UFO Ranch, basically because Melinda was like, anybody can
Speaker 5: do this. But I just want to say this before
Speaker 5: we move on. Devin, correct me if I'm wrong, But
Speaker 5: I remember us having a conversation about how your dad
Speaker 5: kind of came around, didn't he, or he's at least
Speaker 5: willing to be more open about it with you, wasn't
Speaker 5: he like down the line.
Speaker 1: Give me a UFO book, which frankly gave me a
Speaker 1: UFO book that was him coming around. The rest of
Speaker 1: my family still treats it kind of like a joke.
Speaker 1: They just give me alien gifts. They don't know that
Speaker 1: I actually appreciate them, and I decorate my house with
Speaker 1: some of them, but they aren't taking it seriously. And
Speaker 1: they're so interested in NASA and all of that. It's
Speaker 1: fascinating to me that they're not open to this idea.
Speaker 1: So there's a weird psychology. And another example of this
Speaker 1: weird psychology that I can't get over is someone is
Speaker 1: always very very credible, like everyone's respecting them and have
Speaker 1: great esteem for them until they talk about this topic
Speaker 1: and then suddenly all of that credibility apparently disappears. And
Speaker 1: it's so weird to me. So what do you guys
Speaker 1: think about this psyop weird psychology movie manipulation that also
Speaker 1: happens thanks to the CIA, et cetera, that we're all
Speaker 1: dealing with.
Speaker 2: I when you said weird psychology, I think this is
Speaker 2: one of the things that we should mention. And I
Speaker 2: hope I'm not taking it off topic. But one of
Speaker 2: the things that I've found the most fascinating is talking
Speaker 2: to an abductee and and to talking to like Travis Walton.
Speaker 2: I sat down with him for like an hour at
Speaker 2: one of the conferences, and one of the things that
Speaker 2: I do find fascinating is this idea of the initial
Speaker 2: trauma of the situation, but the later endearment that is
Speaker 2: built and again maybe that is manipulation that that could
Speaker 2: be some curious what your guys thoughts on that? And
Speaker 2: also but so there's this weird psychology thing, I mean,
Speaker 2: is it what's that that that syndrome called when somebody
Speaker 2: abducts you and you you know Stockholm Center. I mean,
Speaker 2: could it be that could it be. I mean, because
Speaker 2: they'll legitimately tell you they even appreciate the experience. But
Speaker 2: the thing that traumatizes them now is the stigma and
Speaker 2: the public response and the military response. So I'm just
Speaker 2: curious about that. Sorry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, because if we didn't respond that way,
Speaker 1: and if we let these people talk and it wasn't
Speaker 1: snickers in the audience or snickers by someone talking to them,
Speaker 1: it would not be traumatic. And actually that is what
Speaker 1: I've done with some of my clients. I just let
Speaker 1: them talk and then we move on. They tell me
Speaker 1: about experiences that they have, and a lot of them
Speaker 1: are kids, and they just talk about them. I don't
Speaker 1: tell them about my interests, I don't tell them my
Speaker 1: point of view. I just let them talk, and then
Speaker 1: five minutes later we're talking about a video game or something.
Speaker 1: It's not traumatic at that point if you just let
Speaker 1: them speak. But the snickers, the stigma, Yeah, it continues.
Speaker 1: Ariel What did you Courtney? What did you want to say?
Speaker 5: I just wanted to say that I was just watching
Speaker 5: this morning. I saw something on ex about Elon Musk's
Speaker 5: patient who had the neuralink and he was talking to
Speaker 5: Chris Cuomo and he's into UFOs and UAPs, and so
Speaker 5: he was talking about his perspective on it, what's happening,
Speaker 5: and don't you know, Chris Cuomo comes out and says, well, look,
Speaker 5: you know, there are some people that I can't exactly
Speaker 5: what he said, but he threw in the little green Man.
Speaker 5: He had to do it. He threw the little Green
Speaker 5: Man into the into the narration, and I thought, man,
Speaker 5: we're beyond that, Like, just leave the little man green
Speaker 5: Man behind, or the tinfoil hats or whatever stigmafied stigmafying
Speaker 5: thing you're you're gonna say next. And I wish we
Speaker 5: could just drop all that now. And I think that
Speaker 5: just shows us we're not there yet. That's that's all
Speaker 5: I wanted to say about the OP. You know, it's
Speaker 5: been very effective, very effective.
Speaker 1: Yeah, l.
Speaker 4: I yeah, I find I find that very interesting because
Speaker 4: in in the context of like personal conversations with family
Speaker 4: and friends, it's like people can kind.
Speaker 3: Of, you know, be more open to it.
Speaker 4: Like I feel like I don't get the snickers, I
Speaker 4: get more just the kind of like, oh that's that's nice.
Speaker 4: That's nice. So that's interesting, that's nice, and then move on.
Speaker 4: I don't get like you're weird or you know.
Speaker 3: Any of that.
Speaker 4: But when it comes to media, we still have these
Speaker 4: news anchors just pushing the stigma, like you said, throwing
Speaker 4: in the tinfoil hat comments and the green little men comments,
Speaker 4: and it just it drives me crazy because I just
Speaker 4: don't know if that's representative of what's going on in
Speaker 4: people's like personal conversations.
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know what, I'm just gonna say this,
Speaker 1: like I did this. I started from a point of
Speaker 1: research and just reading the investigations that were happening, Like
Speaker 1: the Army has a PDF that a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't read. It was fascinating. That was like real life
Speaker 1: movie stuff right there. They went all over to Germany trying
Speaker 1: to figure out if the Germans were doing the flying
Speaker 1: saucers that were being reported, and it was right after
Speaker 1: Kenneth Arnold sighting, and they took it really seriously. There
Speaker 1: was like page after page of all these things that
Speaker 1: they did to investigate, and I'm like, that's serious stuff.
Speaker 1: That's not joking. Stuff like that was manpower and money
Speaker 1: and woman power going out there trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what was going on. And those stories are being missed.
Speaker 1: They're missing them because they're not paying attention. Another one
Speaker 1: that's fascinating was that someone who worked for the US
Speaker 1: Air Force tried desperately in the fifties to have the
Speaker 1: public know more about this topic. And she wrote to
Speaker 1: people talking about the US Air Force wants to come
Speaker 1: out and open to the public information about this topic.
Speaker 1: And guess who stopped them. Guess who stopped the US
Speaker 1: Air Force? It was the CIA. Just real stuff that happened,
Speaker 1: and the media is missing it because they're making jokes.
Speaker 1: There was also stuff that scandals about people lying and
Speaker 1: politicians and you know, things the politicians were doing with
Speaker 1: their money, which was really interesting. Actually, there was a
Speaker 1: whole article about someone who worked for a senator and
Speaker 1: senators that created conventions like they spent their money on that.
Speaker 1: It was pell by the way, who did that. In
Speaker 1: part he wasn't the only one, I think like Rockefeller
Speaker 1: and some other people were involved. But you know, these
Speaker 1: are really interesting, real things that happened, and people just
Speaker 1: want to make jokes and it leads down to like, oh, seriously,
Speaker 1: bad things that people did. I found out about Japan
Speaker 1: and MacArthur and we made a deal to cover up
Speaker 1: the experiments that they did on people that were horrific,
Speaker 1: and that's a real thing that happened, and the media
Speaker 1: never reports on that, and they just made that deal
Speaker 1: so that we could get the data from it and
Speaker 1: let all those people off the hook. So yeah, Courtney,
Speaker 1: I could tell you wanted to chime in, go ahead.
Speaker 5: No, we only have a couple of minutes left, and
Speaker 5: so I want to make sure we give enough time
Speaker 5: because I have some comments to say in the goodbye part,
Speaker 5: so I'll go ahead and pass it back to you.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I guess since we do have to wrap up,
Speaker 1: if you would like, could you please tell us what's
Speaker 1: going to happen in the future with your show, because
Speaker 1: I'm sure people are going to want to chime in.
Speaker 3: Go ahead, Chris, gotcha.
Speaker 2: Well, we're just plugging along, just doing what we're doing.
Speaker 2: We try and have a show every couple of weeks,
Speaker 2: you know, and depending on schedules and things. So we
Speaker 2: just dropped an episode today with the Ancient Enigma Files,
Speaker 2: and it was a really fun episode to actually talk
Speaker 2: a lot about Christianity, religion, some beliefs that he holds on,
Speaker 2: you know, just different theories. It was it was a
Speaker 2: really good, uh full topic. And then we have I
Speaker 2: have I think Joel is going to come on in August,
Speaker 2: and we have another deep dive we're going to do
Speaker 2: at the end of August. So we're going to bring
Speaker 2: on actually a couple of brothers is what I understand,
Speaker 2: and they are going to deep dive a case with us,
Speaker 2: so that'll be fun. And then we have some really
Speaker 2: cool step in September. So Ariel's got in on a
Speaker 2: really big name on simulation theory. So I don't even
Speaker 2: know why I'm going to be on the show just
Speaker 2: to listen because I probably can't even have a dialogue.
Speaker 3: It's going to be fun.
Speaker 5: You need to start searching for Mendela effects in your
Speaker 5: life so that you can ask your ask your host
Speaker 5: about your Mendela effect experience.
Speaker 4: Oh thank you for that tip.
Speaker 3: Do you want to get that? Do you want to
Speaker 3: give the address of our YouTube channel you're meeting?
Speaker 1: I think Truly has put it in the chat at
Speaker 1: least once.
Speaker 2: Oh perfect, Yeah, it's I always get confused. It's the
Speaker 2: elephant in the room for one one. I don't remember
Speaker 2: if it's elephant in the room for one one on
Speaker 2: YouTube and you can find Ariel and myself on x
Speaker 2: most of the time. That's pretty much where we're at,
Speaker 2: and Ariels on Instagram, so she'll post some updates and
Speaker 2: things there. Yeah. So we're just kind of taking it
Speaker 2: easy and slow and doing it at our own pace
Speaker 2: as I'm going to school and Ariels going to be
Speaker 2: busy in this fall as well.
Speaker 4: So yeah, but thank you so much for having us on.
Speaker 4: I have been wanting to meet the both of you
Speaker 4: for so long. Now I'm just getting to, you know,
Speaker 4: put faces and voices with names and just kind of
Speaker 4: getting to know your personalities. This has just been so
Speaker 4: much fun. So just really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Well. I will say before Courtney gets to say goodbye
Speaker 1: that I think we're going to need a part two
Speaker 1: at some point because I am thinking we need to
Speaker 1: talk more about women in this community and some of
Speaker 1: the issues that we're looking at, because it isn't a
Speaker 1: topic that is addressed nearly enough. I can tell you
Speaker 1: there are some podcasts that I stopped watching because I
Speaker 1: never saw them interview a woman ever. And there's plenty
Speaker 1: of women doing this work behind the scenes. Besides the
Speaker 1: people like Sheehan, there were women working with him and
Speaker 1: for not seeing them. So yeah, definitely should talk about
Speaker 1: that some more in the future. Your turn, Courtney with
Speaker 1: you got Chris.
Speaker 5: I just want to say, and you probably don't remember this,
Speaker 5: but I have a really good memory when you came
Speaker 5: into the Mothership, the women's research group that we did
Speaker 5: so all the women in the field who were available
Speaker 5: could highlight their work. One of the things that deb
Speaker 5: and I noticed was that it really quickly got into
Speaker 5: experience or issues. It was like we had a couple
Speaker 5: of people come in share their work, you know, do
Speaker 5: their introduction, and then it was like heavy with experience
Speaker 5: or issues. And so I just want to say this
Speaker 5: to you because it's something that I remember. One of
Speaker 5: the participants was a husband who had experiences that didn't
Speaker 5: believe in his wife experiences and then he did eventually,
Speaker 5: and he was really struggling with that, and you know,
Speaker 5: I remember kind of addressing it but then moving on
Speaker 5: to the next person for time, and I just want
Speaker 5: to say that you really addressed his issues, you know,
Speaker 5: and gave him a lot of positive feedback and support,
Speaker 5: and I wanted to thank you for that. And I
Speaker 5: know that you're not like an experience or support person
Speaker 5: or you know, not running the groups or anything. But
Speaker 5: I really I saw that in you. I thought, wow,
Speaker 5: that's remarkable that she took the time to address this
Speaker 5: person's real feelings and offered support and help and even
Speaker 5: said there's a lot of great people in this community
Speaker 5: that will help you. So I learned from that, and
Speaker 5: that was just you being present and aware and you know,
Speaker 5: really listening to what was needed and providing it. So
Speaker 5: I've followed you guys since and all your work, and
Speaker 5: I just want to say keep doing the good work.
Speaker 5: I love that you guys are on Twitter and you
Speaker 5: don't get into the Twitter wars. You're very balanced and
Speaker 5: even and and Ariel, that's what I wanted to say
Speaker 5: to you. You seem to be able to stay out
Speaker 5: of the fray and keep it classy, and I really
Speaker 5: like that about you, you know, but you continue to
Speaker 5: do good work, So both of you, I just I
Speaker 5: regard you very highly and keep up all the good
Speaker 5: work that you're doing in the field. It makes a difference.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. That was really nice for you
Speaker 2: to notice.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and thank you from myself as well.
Speaker 1: I think that some Pe people probably really appreciated this
Speaker 1: conversation today and the fact that we touched on some
Speaker 1: things that maybe don't regularly get touched on and should be.
Speaker 1: And I'm hoping that more people will go check out
Speaker 1: your channel and absorb all the information that you have,
Speaker 1: including some presentations. I saw that there are some presentations.
Speaker 1: People come prepare to your channel with presentation. So thank
Speaker 1: you again from all of us. I have thank you
Speaker 1: for writing in the cab today and to everyone who
Speaker 1: came to listen, thank you and have a wonderful, wonderful night.
Speaker 2: Oh love you ladies. Thank you so much, appreciate you.
Speaker 4: Bye.