Speaker 1: You see something's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What what's going to happen?
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: What's up to help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects. This episode,
Speaker 2: I got Jin the Ninja and Ethan Indigo joining me
Speaker 2: with a guest. Uh, first we'll let Jin and Ethan
Speaker 2: introduce themselves. Jin the Ninja, what is going on? Man?
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for coming on. Let everybody know
Speaker 2: what are you doing?
Speaker 4: Well? Thanks boss. I was like to say, mister thirty
Speaker 4: three or ninety three. So I have a show called
Speaker 4: Threshold Saints. It's about speculative I call serial experiments and
Speaker 4: speculative ontology. So we talked about metamagic, meta history and
Speaker 4: metafiction all mixed together. And so yeah, you can check
Speaker 4: out out on x Twitter at Ukongriborn w Uk and
Speaker 4: g Reborn or the show count at Threshold Saints and
Speaker 4: IG is the same. And thank you very much, Nick
Speaker 4: and Ethan and doctor Jordan Barber. You know, it's really
Speaker 4: cool to be invited on these kind of smaller panel
Speaker 4: shows with other ocult tasts or mystics or I don't
Speaker 4: know how you identify Jordan, but yeah, I'll say that,
Speaker 4: so thank you.
Speaker 2: Of course, of course, yeah, and Ethan Indigo, my man.
Speaker 2: Let everybody know what you deal with where they can
Speaker 2: find all your books look at that.
Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much for including me to this. Jordan,
Speaker 3: I know this is going to be awesome from just
Speaker 3: talking to you briefly. Always an honor to be with
Speaker 3: Nick and Jin. I have a few books online, and
Speaker 3: I have an article on the Occult Research Institute website,
Speaker 3: of course, and I'm easy to find on social media,
Speaker 3: so I always appreciate people reaching out.
Speaker 2: Definitely, thank you very much for contributing to the site.
Speaker 2: And definitely check out. And he's got a bunch of
Speaker 2: books out that he never promotes, so go check him out,
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 3: If people look, they'll find it. I got esoteric and
Speaker 3: even exoteric stuff out there, so.
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely check it out. And finally the guests, somebody
Speaker 2: that have been bugging to come on the show for
Speaker 2: a while, somebody a new personally. We definitely had some
Speaker 2: wild experiences together in the past. Uh. Finally, doctor Jordan Barber, Jordan,
Speaker 2: what is going on, my man? Thank you very much
Speaker 2: for finally making it here.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Nick.
Speaker 1: I think I think it's been at least two years
Speaker 1: You've been bugging me on this at least, you know,
Speaker 1: and I guess finally we got around to it. So, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, like Nick said, I'm doctor Jordan Barber. I'm
Speaker 1: a chronic pain expert and Chinese medicine practitioner, and I
Speaker 1: normally talk about those things, but here I think I
Speaker 1: want to talk about the other side of medicine and
Speaker 1: healthcare and spirituality and how they intertwine. And you can
Speaker 1: find me practically on Anywhere's j barbar l A C.
Speaker 1: And yeah, can't wait.
Speaker 2: You some nice and you oh you should. You did
Speaker 2: put out a well you have put out books too.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if you want to promote that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm not big on the the ego
Speaker 1: stuff because I feel like my spirit animals more cy
Speaker 1: so like the moment eating my ego, it gets bigger
Speaker 1: and bigger and bigger. Yeah, I'm a I'm a best
Speaker 1: selling author for one hour on Amazon, uh business category,
Speaker 1: and uh you know, I've published a few articles. You
Speaker 1: can find me in pub med so I can pretend
Speaker 1: to be an academic if you want. Yeah, those things,
Speaker 1: you know, let me let me put a hand and
Speaker 1: glove on in the background now and listen to dismiss.
Speaker 2: That's awesome. Well, thank you, thank you very much for
Speaker 2: coming on.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I don't even know, Like Jen Ashy, like
Speaker 2: what would you what would you consider you so optimistic
Speaker 2: or spiritualist?
Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking about that. I'm like, at
Speaker 1: this point human you know, I I've killed all my idols.
Speaker 1: At this point, I don't care about orders. I don't
Speaker 1: care about anything, not in a nihilistic way. But I
Speaker 1: feel like at a certain point, you practice and you
Speaker 1: do the things, and who really cares? You know that?
Speaker 1: It makes me think of like the the idea of
Speaker 1: you know, spirituality is in something you carve out of
Speaker 1: a day to do, right, You don't Now, I pray
Speaker 1: and then I go be an asshole. Right, It's you know,
Speaker 1: I do the thing and I hold it inside and
Speaker 1: I become that thing. And therefore, you know, magic or
Speaker 1: anything is the thing that you're always doing. Right, So
Speaker 1: you could be you know, taking a pee and conducting
Speaker 1: magic somehow if you really were in his zone. So
Speaker 1: you know, I've kind of passed the idea of like
Speaker 1: what am I mostly because if you ask me every day,
Speaker 1: I'll give you a different title.
Speaker 2: Anyway, so I understand that I found that interesting. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's kind of funny. I even said that, you know,
Speaker 2: taking a pee. But you know, we were mentioning before
Speaker 2: about you know, I think before we're recording about like
Speaker 2: staying fit or like really you know, not working in
Speaker 2: some court some sort of like exercise. And even for me,
Speaker 2: I've noticed for going to the gym regularly, it almost
Speaker 2: starts to become And it's funny. I noticed this because
Speaker 2: of James Wasserman saying that he thought the LBRP was
Speaker 2: actually like physical meditation once you get into the zone
Speaker 2: with it. And I had started like realizing that's kind
Speaker 2: of what happens once I start working out, especially like
Speaker 2: when I have my own regimen and like what I
Speaker 2: know I'm doing, and I have the certain exercises I
Speaker 2: know I'm doing every time, it almost becomes like a
Speaker 2: physical meditation. And I will be honest, some of the
Speaker 2: best ideas really either coming from the shower or when
Speaker 2: I'm working out in the gym and just zoned out
Speaker 2: and doing what I'm doing and kind of like not
Speaker 2: thinking about ten million things at once. I even find
Speaker 2: that to be a.
Speaker 1: Betterfit, you know. So the Chinese have us saying busy
Speaker 1: outside still inside. So the more you're moving and doing
Speaker 1: things to calmer the mind gets. There's an inverse to
Speaker 1: that though, that's still the outside, the more busy the
Speaker 1: mind gets, which we've all probably experienced for meditation. So
Speaker 1: doing the LBRP or any of those things definitely start
Speaker 1: stealing the mind, especially with the focus and concentration, and
Speaker 1: I think regarding in the Black books started talking a
Speaker 1: lot about different ways to use the LBRP for you know,
Speaker 1: mental fitness, for getting rid of you know, negative emotions
Speaker 1: and everything else. So I would agree there's definitely some
Speaker 1: stuff there.
Speaker 2: Ye did you want to like, Oh, go ahead, did
Speaker 2: you want to ask them?
Speaker 3: Well, I was just gonna say, what meditative movement would
Speaker 3: you maybe endorse or suggest for I mean, the agent
Speaker 3: to the athletic.
Speaker 1: Anything that works.
Speaker 2: But that got that.
Speaker 1: So we all have different makeups, and our makeups change
Speaker 1: at different times. Right. You know, if you're really pissed
Speaker 1: off and angry, it takes a hell lot more to
Speaker 1: make you common, in which case, deadlifts are probably the
Speaker 1: best way to end meditation. Right if you think of
Speaker 1: shallon training right before you sit in the meditative posture.
Speaker 1: You do all your training right, so you move the
Speaker 1: you know within Chinese mens and you move all the
Speaker 1: cheap you open the channels, you calm the mind, then
Speaker 1: you can sit in that meditation. So if you've got
Speaker 1: a lot going on, you need to move, you need
Speaker 1: to exercise, and it could be anything from heavy lifting
Speaker 1: to running to jogging, and then steal that moment for
Speaker 1: the meditation. That's what I would recommend is that, you know,
Speaker 1: whatever is necessary for a person. Grandma who's sitting on
Speaker 1: the couch probably just needs to walk to the kitchen
Speaker 1: and back and that might be good enough for her,
Speaker 1: and they can probably sit and do you know badwan
Speaker 1: jin or silk realing practice in the couch and a
Speaker 1: seated position if they want it, because it's enough focus
Speaker 1: just to look at you know, the motions and moving
Speaker 1: the arms and stretching the back and opening the front
Speaker 1: and just these little dallions or guiding and leading practices
Speaker 1: that are good enough for that person's metabolism. You know,
Speaker 1: I think that's why we need good teachers. You know
Speaker 1: something that in the age of the Internet, we want
Speaker 1: the teachers to be you know, whatever forum we read
Speaker 1: or whatever book we read or anything else, which are
Speaker 1: great to start, but you need someone who's been down
Speaker 1: the path to show you and correct you.
Speaker 2: One thing I did want to ask if you didn't mind,
Speaker 2: I do know, like what like when I first met
Speaker 2: you doing acupuncture, I didn't know if you wanted to
Speaker 2: kind of like just let people know, like some of
Speaker 2: your experience within the healthcare and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So I had a weird So acupuncture in the US,
Speaker 1: I have to be cautious. You know, acupuncture is a
Speaker 1: young profession in the US, and it came it came over.
Speaker 1: It was imported over into more of the public consciousness
Speaker 1: during the New Age movement, during the Transcendental movement, you know,
Speaker 1: the sixties seventies. So unfortunately, we borrowed a lot from
Speaker 1: that time period to understand Chinese medicine, right, So that's
Speaker 1: where we get chi is energy. You know, that's not
Speaker 1: the definition in Chinese, but you know it's good enough.
Speaker 1: That's why suddenly Chokras rolled into it. And that's why
Speaker 1: there's crystals, and that's why a lot of acupuncturists are
Speaker 1: very crunchy in granoli is. That's just how it made
Speaker 1: its way in America. It doesn't mean it doesn't work,
Speaker 1: and doesn't mean that we haven't done a good job
Speaker 1: to encapsulate it. But there's it being a very second
Speaker 1: tier medical profession and being in a lot of private schools.
Speaker 1: There are some very good schools and there are some
Speaker 1: less than good schools. Like all things, the barrier of
Speaker 1: entry is not that high, and not being competitive and
Speaker 1: not being integrated with medical schools and being hospital system
Speaker 1: so though that's starting to change, prevent the kind of
Speaker 1: the normal I guess shithing that would occur to someone
Speaker 1: in medical training and seeing gravely sick people and everything else.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot. So for me, I entered the
Speaker 1: profession expecting one thing and realized it was that and
Speaker 1: was like, you know, it worked for me. I was sick,
Speaker 1: I was in it went through nine to eleven. I
Speaker 1: was down there. I had some PTSD from it, wanted
Speaker 1: to get into a profession. It mattered through my own
Speaker 1: healing crisis and all this other stuff. I wound up
Speaker 1: doing Chinese medicine because it helped me and when Western
Speaker 1: medicine failed. But then when I was learning it, I
Speaker 1: couldn't really get it to work. You know, it was
Speaker 1: a lot of bullshit, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of new age weird shit that like
Speaker 1: was very western Western view of the orient. We say
Speaker 1: oriental is a bad word. Now oriental medicine is his
Speaker 1: whole term. But oriental means to orient oneself to the
Speaker 1: east and view the east from the west, and that's
Speaker 1: exactly what we did. So it's a very you know,
Speaker 1: for lack of better term, culturally appropriated, though that's not
Speaker 1: my language set. We definitely did that with that, and
Speaker 1: that's happening with Araveda and all the other traditional systems here.
Speaker 1: But I was lucky to find my first teacher who
Speaker 1: was a douscher or a Dallas priest. He left the school,
Speaker 1: he was only a briefly, and through series of events,
Speaker 1: I started learning I don't want to say real stuff,
Speaker 1: but I started learning stuff, let's put it that way.
Speaker 1: And I also embarked in cultivating and Dallas practices, and
Speaker 1: that led led to a series of many different events,
Speaker 1: from seeing exorcisms to getting in touch with actual energy
Speaker 1: based work, making acupuncture actually work, you know a bunch
Speaker 1: of things. I mean, I could go off on tangents forever,
Speaker 1: but that's like the brief part of my you know spiel,
Speaker 1: my soapbox of Chinese medicine. It's been about twenty years,
Speaker 1: so I've got some stuff than.
Speaker 4: I personally, I was sorry about that.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you.
Speaker 4: I personally would love to hear about the exorcystems because
Speaker 4: I have a right. I mean, I have a Well,
Speaker 4: my dad's Chinese, so it's of course interesting to me.
Speaker 4: He's from the diaspora, he's not from mainland, he's not
Speaker 4: from Hong Kong. So it's we have some of this
Speaker 4: Diywist stuff, but it's it's kind of baked into a
Speaker 4: different cultural model. You could say. It's like kind of
Speaker 4: it's a little more syncretic. It's a little more southern
Speaker 4: ethnic Chinese. It's a little different. But so I'm very
Speaker 4: curious about that.
Speaker 1: Yes, so I think, you know, also looking at Chinese history,
Speaker 1: it's always syncretic. And you know, from the tradition that
Speaker 1: I trained in, I never took lineage. It's the trunch
Speaker 1: and sect. So it's the open clarity sect, long Enpi tradition,
Speaker 1: Dragon Gates lineage, which is the biggest one. It's not
Speaker 1: that fancy, it's like practically everyone's dragons Gape lineage, and
Speaker 1: the Tuncheon sect is the three vehicles of Chinese mess
Speaker 1: of Chinese spirituality right now Confucianism, Dalism and Buddhism mixed together,
Speaker 1: so that's syncretic already. And then depending on you have
Speaker 1: your regional stuff, the closer you get to the lower border,
Speaker 1: you get more of the Bone tradition and Ti Bat
Speaker 1: mixed into it. And then do you have people the
Speaker 1: priests that are practicing in the temples, so do you
Speaker 1: have the people practicing in the mountains, So they're vastly different,
Speaker 1: and how they approach to lease externally the stuff internally
Speaker 1: maybe it's not so different, right, So you know my
Speaker 1: view came from that tradition, which was much more the
Speaker 1: mountain tradition, you know, not serving the people in daily
Speaker 1: rituals and you know that was all to work every
Speaker 1: single day and had a lot of the Tibetan stuff
Speaker 1: kind of mixed into it, which made it very interesting.
Speaker 1: And prior to that, I did some Verishana like practices
Speaker 1: and retreats, you know, because I was practicing or trying
Speaker 1: to practice Buddhist meditation when I was younger. But for me,
Speaker 1: I always thought I wanted to do the the exor
Speaker 1: systems and stuff. And that comes from being like an
Speaker 1: occultist at like you know, fifteen years old, right, Like
Speaker 1: we all want to do that shit. We all want
Speaker 1: to like, you know, do the lesser Kia Solomon and
Speaker 1: you know, make something appear and you know, go fetch
Speaker 1: me some treasure and you know a hot girl.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: None of that stuff worked when I was younger, you know,
Speaker 1: although weird things did occur, but I thought that would
Speaker 1: be cool. The way I would say is from seeing
Speaker 1: an exorcism. It made me realize I never want to
Speaker 1: do that again. And it made me realize that that
Speaker 1: shit's real and in like the exorcism type movie style,
Speaker 1: that sh it's real and I can scare the shit
Speaker 1: out of you, like I wasn't sleep and right, so
Speaker 1: I know, for me, I learned some of the practices
Speaker 1: to see if there is you know, to borrow from
Speaker 1: the Catholics, oppression, possession, et cetera. Right, and if I
Speaker 1: notice it's there, I'm like, cool, that can stay there.
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in it. I'll just try to get
Speaker 1: them healthy and you know that's between them and they
Speaker 1: could go find someone else. It's not my battle because
Speaker 1: that shit's really fucking scary. Honestly, you know, it's exactly
Speaker 1: what you think you wanted to be when you're a kid,
Speaker 1: and hope it's not when you're an adult. So like
Speaker 1: for me, we knew this one person, you know, for
Speaker 1: lack of term, we said we would call it affectionately squirrels.
Speaker 1: Had some squirrels living inside the you know, their head,
Speaker 1: you know, the idea of squirrels in the attic, right,
Speaker 1: but we're like, eh, whatever. So my teacher was actually
Speaker 1: just treating them. They just came in, you know, and
Speaker 1: it was kind of discussed, like I don't know, we
Speaker 1: might have to approach the topic. And I hear a
Speaker 1: big freaking noise and I shit you not, a sword
Speaker 1: goes through the sheet rock wall. And I turned around
Speaker 1: with the secretary up front, and I was like, the
Speaker 1: fuck right, there's a sword through the wall. And then
Speaker 1: the door just opens, like I hear, like prior to that,
Speaker 1: I was hearing crazy ass noises in it, but like
Speaker 1: I've given up on crazy noises, right, you know, because
Speaker 1: a lot Dallas practices could get weird and whatever. And
Speaker 1: the door just opened, So it's like, Jordan, could you
Speaker 1: fetch me a box and then come in here and
Speaker 1: just closes the door. And I'm like the fuck, But
Speaker 1: I knew what that meant. It was a box's box
Speaker 1: to trap the demons in or to hold them in, right,
Speaker 1: because in this specific lineage, one of the things you
Speaker 1: could do, so you can take these spirits or demons
Speaker 1: and you could actually repurpose them to do good or
Speaker 1: repurpose them to heal other people. One thing that could
Speaker 1: consume the person's blood, which is where the spirit resides
Speaker 1: in Chinese medicine, could also be repurposed to help someone
Speaker 1: who has a blood based disorder or you know, severe
Speaker 1: mental illness and everything else. So you capture them to
Speaker 1: repurpose them, or you capture them to work for you,
Speaker 1: to make you know, I mean, there's nothing new under
Speaker 1: to side. So I had to find a box, which
Speaker 1: we didn't have, so I had to like run out
Speaker 1: and find that. Like two doors down there was like
Speaker 1: a hobby shop, and I'm like looking for this wooden
Speaker 1: box like buy what. I come in and I get
Speaker 1: in there, this this person is like you know, it's
Speaker 1: the exorcist, like foaming, like moving writhing around in weird ways.
Speaker 1: A lot of shit was going on and there were
Speaker 1: shards of glass everywhere that broke because of something, and
Speaker 1: I was told to get the shards, get them in
Speaker 1: the box while they were doing whatever, and it was
Speaker 1: like right out of Ghostbusters. It was like, by the way,
Speaker 1: you didn't look into the glass, did you? And I'm
Speaker 1: like yeah, like no, you shouldn't look into the glass.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, okay, this is something to do
Speaker 1: with like reflections and how it can like get into
Speaker 1: your mind or whatever. Yeah, it was wild. It was
Speaker 1: absolutely wild. And then after that that person was like
Speaker 1: a new human. It was bizarre. Like I sort of
Speaker 1: like a week later and they didn't even recall most
Speaker 1: of it happening. They were just like, oh, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I guess you broke something in there, you know, Like
Speaker 1: and I had to be the one to close up
Speaker 1: the hole in the sheet rock because I was a
Speaker 1: low man. Yeah that time, So like you know, the
Speaker 1: next day, I'm in there with like speckle okay, like
Speaker 1: that's normal. But you know we had gensing men running around,
Speaker 1: you know, so the ginsing roots can become alive and animated.
Speaker 1: There's all these stories in Chinese law about that, and
Speaker 1: you know, I used to think they were joking, but
Speaker 1: they're mischievous. And then next thing, you know, like weird
Speaker 1: stuff starts happening. You can't find a ginsing man, and
Speaker 1: then he reappears on a shelf that you left him at,
Speaker 1: and it gets really bizarre. You know, you start stepping
Speaker 1: one foot into the other world. And you know, for me,
Speaker 1: during a lot of the practices, we start doing what
Speaker 1: I guess would be called the Dallas Wines of enlightenment.
Speaker 1: They're different drinks that you make with herbs, made with incantations,
Speaker 1: cooked at certain times, and drank on certain astrological days
Speaker 1: to do certain things. And yeah, they put you in
Speaker 1: a different place, and you know, you have to reintegrate
Speaker 1: and the shit. You know, I've been a Western initiate
Speaker 1: quite a long time in my life. The Eastern shit
Speaker 1: has done more and more quicker than like anything that
Speaker 1: I've encountered in the West. Now that might mean I
Speaker 1: just didn't do all the practices in the West, or
Speaker 1: maybe didn't have the right instructors, or you know, lodges
Speaker 1: maybe give the information slowly or they don't have it.
Speaker 1: So I'm not knocking the West. I'm sure we have it.
Speaker 2: I just have to kount.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting because I have spoken to Nick about
Speaker 4: this and then obviously with Ethan on the panel is
Speaker 4: like what opens the lock for you? And so for
Speaker 4: me it was exactly like the same as it was
Speaker 4: for you, Jordan. It was it took Vadon to sort
Speaker 4: of bring me to that place. But I had, as
Speaker 4: you joked, I had experimented with Gosha Solomon, all the
Speaker 4: Keys of Solomon, both greater and lesser, lots of different
Speaker 4: kinds of magical attacks, more leftime path modern occoultism, but
Speaker 4: it really was Vadriana and just more of like letting
Speaker 4: magic go and saying, yeah, that's okay, I don't need
Speaker 4: to do that. But then I started having much more
Speaker 4: profound experiences, No.
Speaker 1: I would agree. I mean, the older I get, the
Speaker 1: less I care about, you know, doing these things in
Speaker 1: the more meditation and embodied work matters, so like Tumo
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, I think hold more of a
Speaker 1: place now. I think when I was younger, I didn't
Speaker 1: appreciate the Buddhist practices and some of those things that
Speaker 1: you know, just sit there and do the inner fire.
Speaker 1: But now after lack of a better term, fucking around
Speaker 1: for you know, fifteen twenty years in the West, I
Speaker 1: realized that that stuff is key. And even in my
Speaker 1: Western practices, without the Eastern practices and understanding how energy
Speaker 1: moves in the body, I don't think I would have
Speaker 1: had as much success as I did because we don't
Speaker 1: really learn and I think we're talking about this before
Speaker 1: we started. You know, in the West, it's rare that
Speaker 1: we focused on the the body and cultivating the body
Speaker 1: first and cultivating the mind. It's written everywhere. But then
Speaker 1: we jump in and decide, you know, I want to
Speaker 1: get you know, a girlfriend, and I want to whatever,
Speaker 1: so we you know, take the bacus god form and
Speaker 1: go out to the pub. Might have done that. It
Speaker 1: was a good time about that. Yeah, I know that
Speaker 1: was wild. But you know that's the stuff that we
Speaker 1: decided to do in the West because I don't think
Speaker 1: it's it's not we're so far divorced from it, the
Speaker 1: idea that we need to perfect ourselves in our minds.
Speaker 1: I think maybe if this was fifty or sixty years ago,
Speaker 1: you know, we still kind of had that because even
Speaker 1: in like Catholic practices and stuff like, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of calming the body, calming the mind, devotional practices and
Speaker 1: everything else. But we're so de christianized at this point,
Speaker 1: for good and for worse, that I don't think we
Speaker 1: see the importance now. We just want to fill ourselves
Speaker 1: with everything as quickly as possible.
Speaker 3: Which the cultural phenomenon. Not to get off track, but
Speaker 3: the what are these money get rich churches that are
Speaker 3: they're very popular. Now I forget the term, but to.
Speaker 1: What you said there, there's a bunch of a good friend,
Speaker 1: a good friend of mine moved down to Florida, and
Speaker 1: you know, it's a series of unfortunate events. He was
Speaker 1: always very like Pentecostal Christian, but more on the sane
Speaker 1: side of things. Uh he lest I heard he was
Speaker 1: car washing the pastor's Porsche because that would be good
Speaker 1: for him. And it was like fundraising for him because
Speaker 1: it was that kind of like what there's a word
Speaker 1: for it, specific word for but it's like the you know,
Speaker 1: the money churches, but there's yeah, not the mega church.
Speaker 1: There's there's a term for like spiritual like God's going
Speaker 1: to give you money because that's what he wants you
Speaker 1: to have. Well, here's the term. I can't remember it.
Speaker 4: I believe they often call it prosperity gospel.
Speaker 1: Yes, prosperity gospel, that's it. Yeah, prosperity gospel. I on
Speaker 1: social media. Yeah, but I've never encountered something more demonic
Speaker 1: in my life. And I was like, I can actually
Speaker 1: identify what's demonic, and that's pretty freaking demonic like that,
Speaker 1: And you know, the pedophiles in the churches, those are
Speaker 1: the two demonic things. But like the church isn't actually demonics,
Speaker 1: just the pedos. But like those churches, the prospect, that's
Speaker 1: just pure evil because it's it. It's a parasite and
Speaker 1: sucks the last hope out of people who have lost
Speaker 1: their hope. It's sickening, it's cancer.
Speaker 2: The interesting thing I find with that, it just makes
Speaker 2: you latch onto the things you're supposed to let go. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but they're the backwards it's backwards.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean who are they feeding. I don't
Speaker 1: know which spirit from the gatia that is. We take guesses,
Speaker 1: but I mean and then we call and like that
Speaker 1: ain't me. That ain't me.
Speaker 2: You know, you know that's a big guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, we can go forever, you know, And
Speaker 1: that's that's something you know I mentioned I want to
Speaker 1: talk about. It's like, you know, where spirituality has its
Speaker 1: place and healing and health right, And I think we
Speaker 1: see it like you know, I don't know Jim and
Speaker 1: Ethan if you guys were you know, involved in lodges
Speaker 1: or groups and stuff. But Nick and I have seen
Speaker 1: it where like people will come to certain you know,
Speaker 1: lodges or groups and they're seeking for something, whether they're
Speaker 1: they're you know, sick, or they're you know, maybe they
Speaker 1: don't have friends for whatever reason, you know, or they're
Speaker 1: outcasts or whatever, and they think by joining a magical
Speaker 1: group they're going to get all the powers and suddenly
Speaker 1: change their lives. And conversely, we can see on like Instagram,
Speaker 1: you know, who do people and whatever selling sorcery to
Speaker 1: fix your love life, get your you know, husband or
Speaker 1: wife back or whatever, or break up someone right for
Speaker 1: you know, only three thousand dollars. And we also have
Speaker 1: that same predatorial stuff in medicine, where you know, when
Speaker 1: people get sick, you take tonightis right, bringing of the ears,
Speaker 1: there's no known cure. I happen to suffer from a
Speaker 1: small bout of it, but there's no known cure to it.
Speaker 1: Cognitive behavior therapy is all we have. There's Tonight's retraining
Speaker 1: therapy that habituates you to the sound, that doesn't make
Speaker 1: the sound go away. There's people all over selling courses
Speaker 1: telling you you just need to go keto carnivore, you
Speaker 1: just need to cut out. I don't know orange juice.
Speaker 1: I don't know anything right. Everyone's selling something or buy
Speaker 1: this weird supplement or this three thousand dollars course way.
Speaker 1: They tell you it's just your emotions, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: emotions have something to do with Tonight's. But there's so
Speaker 1: much predatory stuff happening in spirituality and then the occult,
Speaker 1: and I think people, you know, I don't want to
Speaker 1: say we need the gatekeep it because that's the wrong term,
Speaker 1: but I think there needs to be more awareness of like, hey,
Speaker 1: if you can't eat now, it's not the time to
Speaker 1: join a lotch, you know. And in some lodges they
Speaker 1: are like that, if you can't afford, they do assess
Speaker 1: you and stuff like that. So I'm not knocking any
Speaker 1: particular group. But then you know, you have her Reddit,
Speaker 1: you know, mages who you know, I think they know
Speaker 1: everything and they can't manifest anything. And they're you know,
Speaker 1: losing their mind because they're upset about what Trump tweeted today.
Speaker 1: And that's not the sign of a person who's got
Speaker 1: control of their mind, regardless of how you feel about Trump.
Speaker 2: That's you know, that's an I'm not going to get
Speaker 2: like specifics in it again, but that was the thing
Speaker 2: that was blowing in my mind when I was telling
Speaker 2: you prior where I had a guy from the Extra
Speaker 2: More Gentleman who I think had his own line flipping
Speaker 2: out and spasing out in emails to me over a
Speaker 2: guest that I had on literally because they're booking agent whoever,
Speaker 2: they had asked me, would you like to have they on?
Speaker 2: He just brought out a book. Blah blah blah. Yo,
Speaker 2: you're coming at me like I was boys with this dude,
Speaker 2: Like what is wrong with you? It was insane. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is not the sign of somebody like showing,
Speaker 2: you know, doing the great.
Speaker 1: Work and one get a better PR agent. So do
Speaker 1: better work to get to be a better PR agent.
Speaker 1: Get on this podcast.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: Two like catch more you know what's it? Catch more
Speaker 1: flies of honey right than vinegar or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: I don't really notice saying, but like, don't be an asshole?
Speaker 1: Why is ever you ocultist an asshole?
Speaker 3: Yo?
Speaker 2: Remember I don't know if it's still the same way,
Speaker 2: but like I remember, I think even me, you and
Speaker 2: I think Mike and uh so other people have even
Speaker 2: noticed it. Like back in the day, if you were
Speaker 2: to go on like any thlemic Facebook group, it was
Speaker 2: just like a fucking shit shot. It's like everybody was
Speaker 2: just arguing. It was like, why don't you just pull
Speaker 2: out your Dickson and she was got the biggest one
Speaker 2: and get it over with, like theoll. This is is
Speaker 2: like an ego fest. It was so horrible, it was
Speaker 2: like laughable.
Speaker 1: I can take a guest to sirtain extent. So in
Speaker 1: the Trunchon sect of Daoism, you have to balance both
Speaker 1: the mind as well as the body or cultivating power.
Speaker 1: If you just focus on say left handed stuff which
Speaker 1: fills you with power whatever the hell what power means?
Speaker 1: It builds up the ego and it builds up the thought,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't cultivate the mind to be able to
Speaker 1: have discrimination discernment and to know how to relax and
Speaker 1: to channel that stuff. Left handed path things where actually
Speaker 1: I think the lima actually is quite balanced. It is
Speaker 1: I would say, a middle path. It's just that most
Speaker 1: of the people will practice it like the left handed stuff,
Speaker 1: because it's sexy. It's fun. Literally, it's sexy sex. Right,
Speaker 1: So they start doing more and more of these things,
Speaker 1: so they start having all the crappy parts of their
Speaker 1: psyche come to the surface because they didn't rarefy themselves
Speaker 1: and verify their mind, that's my guess, and then they
Speaker 1: think and do it. That will means whatever the fuck
Speaker 1: I want, it must be right, because I'm a star. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: they're like barely a star, barely dwindling any light because
Speaker 1: they're so messed up. That would be my guess, But
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I remember there was I think I've even said the phrase,
Speaker 2: and even I probably quoted you that I got it
Speaker 2: from you. You said to me one time that if
Speaker 2: you keep like there was somebody we knew that you
Speaker 2: used to like dealing with demons quite often, and in
Speaker 2: my opinion, it was quite it was quite obvious that
Speaker 2: life wasn't going like right either. And I said to
Speaker 2: me one time that you play with you play with
Speaker 2: shit enough, you're gonna start to smell like it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's true. I mean to borrow from my
Speaker 1: first teacher. It's like, you know, if you hang out
Speaker 1: with demons, you get demon g right, because you know,
Speaker 1: the vibration of the thing that you play with becomes
Speaker 1: part of your vibration. Right, So you know, we know,
Speaker 1: in like normal nomenclature, what's it. You know you are
Speaker 1: of the five people that you spend the most time with.
Speaker 1: Just it's it's true. You know, if you hang around losers,
Speaker 1: you're also a loser. You know, if you hang around
Speaker 1: people are constantly hustling, you're going to be hustling because
Speaker 1: you need to catch up with them. So the circle
Speaker 1: that you keep is the energy that you keep, It's
Speaker 1: the vibration. If the company you keep spiritually is demons,
Speaker 1: you get demon g You get demon energy, and then
Speaker 1: you really can't wonder why your life is falling apart.
Speaker 1: You know, you might be happy because that's the energy
Speaker 1: you want. But you look at the demon Altrey people, right,
Speaker 1: those are the people that do demon work. But it's
Speaker 1: they just do like incantations for specific demons and they
Speaker 1: build relationships with them and whatnot. You know, and it's
Speaker 1: a valid path. But I remember going during COVID, you
Speaker 1: had a lot of free time right now. I remember
Speaker 1: going down the rabbit hole watching the YouTube videos of
Speaker 1: the demon ultry practitioners and a lot of them. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh lord, you need you need mental health
Speaker 1: counseling like not demon and a diet, you know, like
Speaker 1: that's the other thing. You know, body temple, right, you
Speaker 1: don't you don't have to be like lean and fit.
Speaker 1: But if you can't move and can't breathe, the energy
Speaker 1: ain't moving through you that well, you know, so what
Speaker 1: are you doing? And like you can start doing certain
Speaker 1: magical practices or meditations to help you get your body better,
Speaker 1: but that should be the first thing you do. You know,
Speaker 1: you might be a fairly accomplished learned occult this, but
Speaker 1: if you weigh five hundred pounds, I promise you ain't
Speaker 1: doing much well. You're struggling to breathe, not for nothing.
Speaker 2: I would even say that's just even a sign of handcuffs.
Speaker 2: The sign of handcuffs, I mean, you know, obviously something's
Speaker 2: got a holder. It's in an addiction. You can't be Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm saying that every you know, the magicians are cold
Speaker 2: as don't have addictions. But that's quite obviously a bad,
Speaker 2: harmful one that you.
Speaker 1: Have, Like and I'm not talking about having a little
Speaker 1: weight on you.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But like I've encountered, you know, people that don't shower, like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, what are you doing? You know, like if
Speaker 1: you want to make more friends.
Speaker 2: Shower you'll probably even just feel better.
Speaker 1: Right, I just dropped. I put on Weep this this
Speaker 1: winter because I had like some some hell stuff going on.
Speaker 1: Nothing crazy and nothing crazy as far as weep, but
Speaker 1: it was a good extra ten pounds. And I'm a
Speaker 1: small guy, you know, so ten pounds on me is
Speaker 1: ten pounds. Dropping that ten pounds, I feel like a
Speaker 1: million bucks. I sleep better, My sleep is more restorative.
Speaker 1: It's wild, wild. I mean, I can.
Speaker 3: See the glowing she in your face.
Speaker 1: That's the uh.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I can no. I can see you
Speaker 3: have puffy cheeks. It's the cheek coming out.
Speaker 1: That's the uh the the expensive facial products that I
Speaker 1: use getting no, no, no, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: I've said this before, but it's so worth repeating. It's
Speaker 3: and I think actually Manly Manly p Hall said it
Speaker 3: the best. It's impossible to control the mind with the mind.
Speaker 3: It's really difficult, but possible to control the mind with
Speaker 3: the body, right, So so getting getting to and it's
Speaker 3: just like the root chakra and so forth, getting into
Speaker 3: the very root of our you know, physical being is
Speaker 3: a really powerful doorway if you will.
Speaker 1: Well and growth. Spiritual growth should be growth that's balanced, right,
Speaker 1: which means that you naturally grow into I want to
Speaker 1: eat a little better, whatever that means to you, like
Speaker 1: it doesn't you know, have to be paleo whatever, but
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's not Ding Dong's and ho hosts, right,
Speaker 1: So you want to eat a little better, and then
Speaker 1: you start feeling better, and then your meditation becomes better,
Speaker 1: and your energy becomes better. Everything should get better in
Speaker 1: your life on a spiritual practice, and that could be
Speaker 1: literally devotion to the Virgin Mary. It doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be anything. If you are practicing and getting in touch
Speaker 1: with something that whatever lack by a term source, it
Speaker 1: will benefit your life. Well, your energy will change, just
Speaker 1: like the demon she Well, instead, you're touching something that's
Speaker 1: pure and holy or whatever, and you will start emanating that.
Speaker 1: You know, and I'm pretty sure holy doesn't look like
Speaker 1: chocolate hut. So you know, not, you know, and I'm
Speaker 1: not fat shaming, that's not what I know, right, I
Speaker 1: don't want to pick on people, you know.
Speaker 3: And to your point, what they're finding to be more
Speaker 3: important with health not necessarily what you eat, but that
Speaker 3: you don't eat all that much.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So I mean you have to the effects
Speaker 1: of autophagy on intimate and fastating stuff like that. You
Speaker 1: have there, you know, And there's another side that coin
Speaker 1: now them getting really interested in of more optimizing Grandel cycles.
Speaker 1: So when you eat fats, carbs, right, and protein, those
Speaker 1: are your main three macronutrients. When you have two of
Speaker 1: them competing, right then, So if you're taking let's say,
Speaker 1: both carbs and fats at the same time like fettigenie
Speaker 1: alfredo delicious, those are two super rich sources, that becomes
Speaker 1: a major issue in the body, that creates inflammation, that
Speaker 1: creates fatness. But if you just eat straight carbs, you
Speaker 1: can actually fuel the body. And restricting carbs also has
Speaker 1: some negative effects on some people depending on how their
Speaker 1: mitochondria is. So it gets it gets wild, but ultimately
Speaker 1: eating less crap and waiting until your full, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean waiting to you're hungry, and stopping when you're
Speaker 1: full is good advice no matter what. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, for spiritual people and people who want to
Speaker 1: practice spiritual stuff should focus on things like that and
Speaker 1: say how do I feel? Write that in their journal.
Speaker 1: I ate this today. My meditation was shit. I had
Speaker 1: ten pops of coffee. I can't focus, you know, I've
Speaker 1: got my coffee down and I'm really upset by that.
Speaker 1: But I noticed I feel better.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I've also stopped lifting heavy because now I'm forty five,
Speaker 1: and I realized, you know, I don't I'm five to seven,
Speaker 1: you know, so I mean, I'll say five eight when
Speaker 1: I got my shoes on, but like I'm five to seven,
Speaker 1: three hundred and something pounds. It's not necessary for me anymore.
Speaker 1: I definitely was convinced it was. And I like lifting heavy.
Speaker 1: But you know, paying attention to your body and not
Speaker 1: competing with other people, keeping up with the joneses, but
Speaker 1: just paying attention to how your body feels and what
Speaker 1: signals it's giving you, you know, I think is so
Speaker 1: important and it's the foundation of a spiritual practice. You know,
Speaker 1: if you want to get better, you have to get
Speaker 1: better in all regards and just simple practices will lead
Speaker 1: you there. And if they're not leading you there, then
Speaker 1: maybe your practice isn't working. Maybe you're just psyching yourself out.
Speaker 1: I mean regard he talks about it that every true
Speaker 1: initiate on the path should have a therapist. Now you
Speaker 1: can get to define what a therapist means, but you
Speaker 1: have to have someone that you're working through your shit with,
Speaker 1: or a friend that you can lean on that you're
Speaker 1: really discussing your shit with, right, or some sort of
Speaker 1: like reflective practice, And a lot of people aren't doing that,
Speaker 1: you know. I think for me, one of the best
Speaker 1: things I ever did, And took a long time for
Speaker 1: me to get a therapist. And I was originally super
Speaker 1: anti therapy, but you know, shop for a therapist. That's
Speaker 1: not you know, the lack of better term. You know,
Speaker 1: someone is just gonna tell you, you know, oh, your bad
Speaker 1: habits are good, you know, or positive reinforcement of like
Speaker 1: your own identity, you know, someone it should just be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not good, you should change.
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, ethan Agen, you got anything that you want
Speaker 2: to just say? I had a question.
Speaker 4: I do, sorry about that, Thank you, Thank God. So
Speaker 4: I thought the point about Telima being a middle path,
Speaker 4: I guess path or vehicle. It was really interesting and
Speaker 4: I've never really heard anyone express it like that. But
Speaker 4: actually my conclusion is also similar as someone who has
Speaker 4: no affiliation with any order or anything like that, just
Speaker 4: simply coming at it from like Varjoriana I guess perspective.
Speaker 4: I've always felt like a lot of the coupleistic ideas
Speaker 4: that Crowley and other people were talking about, they actually
Speaker 4: make sense in a lot of ways. And maybe I
Speaker 4: don't agree with them particularly, but they make sense, so
Speaker 4: there's a logic to it that I can follow. So
Speaker 4: and I agree with you it's but people have the
Speaker 4: riety about the left hand path and what that is obviously,
Speaker 4: just broadly. And I also agree with your point that
Speaker 4: the like being engaged with well, the relationship with your deity,
Speaker 4: at least in Buddhism, is that it's a it's a
Speaker 4: dialogical relationship, but it arises partly from your mind. Maybe
Speaker 4: there's other power, maybe not, you know, sort of interstitial
Speaker 4: sort of thing. It's neither nor and so, yeah, if
Speaker 4: you engage with low things, low consciousness beings of low
Speaker 4: consciousness or forms of low consciousness or the husk of
Speaker 4: like you're putting all your devotion into a husk. Obviously
Speaker 4: that's not your mind is the carnel ground already. So
Speaker 4: there's there's really no point to engage with the sort
Speaker 4: of negative forces because you're already gonna you're already gonna
Speaker 4: encounter them. So I agree with that, and I just
Speaker 4: thought it was really interesting because my conclusion just from
Speaker 4: a knowing Nick has been very similar.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean so like because uh, thelem is
Speaker 1: Western tantra. Well, thelema is nothing. Thelema is a is
Speaker 1: a concept, right, it's it's the book of the law,
Speaker 1: and you know, uh, practicing once will after knowing it.
Speaker 1: So when we're talking about the AA d O T
Speaker 1: O thelemic orders, they tend to be Western tantra. Anytime
Speaker 1: we say tantra, we think left handed vehicle. But you
Speaker 1: know this one thing. The vehicle can be left handed,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean it's only on the left. So
Speaker 1: when we look at the Western traditions, whether it at
Speaker 1: Golden Dawn or you know, uh ohto AA type stuff,
Speaker 1: you're talking about the lightning bulb path on the coplistic tree,
Speaker 1: which is going between the left than right pillars back
Speaker 1: and forth, which creates the equilibrium as you travel up.
Speaker 1: Crowley himself said that you have to go to the
Speaker 1: depths of hell to reach the highest heavens, paraphrasing completely.
Speaker 1: You know, you have to see both the ugly so
Speaker 1: that you can see, you know, all the beauty. So
Speaker 1: it has to That makes it a middle path. But
Speaker 1: a lot of people get stuck on one side because
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't want to face their ship.
Speaker 1: Ascending the tree is facing their ship, you know, which
Speaker 1: is like what you were saying, Jen, you know it's
Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna pop up. You know, you're gonna become
Speaker 1: aware of your stuff. That's why I say it's middle.
Speaker 2: You know, that's a good point that you bring up with.
Speaker 2: You know, I've seen and I'm sure it's happening to myself.
Speaker 2: You know a lot of times when I think when
Speaker 2: people do shadow work, unfortunately they don't up getting stuck.
Speaker 2: I think, not really fixing it and kind of delving
Speaker 2: into their their issue even more.
Speaker 1: You know, the shadow work stuff sometimes some of it
Speaker 1: comes from like modern shamanistic stuff, which I don't think
Speaker 1: has been perfected too well. And I think because there's
Speaker 1: some person I'm thinking of specifically that was doing a
Speaker 1: lot of it and got trapped in that shit forever.
Speaker 1: Also like ayahuasca and doing all the shadow work that
Speaker 1: can come with that that comes out. Sometimes we can
Speaker 1: use our shadows to spiritually bypass right to make ourselves
Speaker 1: feel it's okay to feel shitty, and it's okay. Then
Speaker 1: I'm acting this way because I'm dealing with my shadows
Speaker 1: right now. I've seen a lot of that kind of
Speaker 1: a way or an excuse to be a shithead. And
Speaker 1: when you're dealing with your shadows, you are usually acting
Speaker 1: out a little bit anyway. So I mean it's part
Speaker 1: partly true, but if it's going on for a year,
Speaker 1: that's you and then you know. The other part makes
Speaker 1: me think of like kurk Obanes, like I missed the
Speaker 1: comfort of being sad, right, what's that scentless Apprentice the lyrics.
Speaker 1: It's like, sometimes we are so used to feeling like
Speaker 1: what however, shitty or emotional, or used to our current condition,
Speaker 1: that it feels forearm to feel different. So we gravitate
Speaker 1: back to the thing that we know, because that's still
Speaker 1: really our overall energetic state. We're trying to shift energetic states,
Speaker 1: but the lower vibration is what we're still kind of
Speaker 1: used to. I love your perspective.
Speaker 3: It's very dallast and isn't it interesting how we like
Speaker 3: to in the West be hard on ourselves and maybe
Speaker 3: that redirects and being hard on others. And what I
Speaker 3: mean is like no pain, no gain, right, where in
Speaker 3: Taoism and Taichi it's this should be a process that
Speaker 3: is experience is wholly good. There should be no pain
Speaker 3: in a knee, is in that mind and so forth
Speaker 3: should you should always kind of be progressing. So it's
Speaker 3: a wonderful.
Speaker 2: To hear that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, the thing I would say is
Speaker 1: my Dallas teachers were you know, it could be very blunt,
Speaker 1: which seems mean, but there's no mincing of words. And
Speaker 1: I think I've unfortunately adopted some of that where I
Speaker 1: just say what I need to say, because why not, right,
Speaker 1: I don't want to waste your time. I want you
Speaker 1: to get to where you need to be right. But
Speaker 1: I think also you're right Ethan, it's you need to
Speaker 1: kind of let things be. There's no speed race to progress.
Speaker 1: It's just if you haven't progressed, you should ask yourself
Speaker 1: why aren't you progressing, That's all? And then fix it right,
Speaker 1: you know, uh forgetting his name. He's a fairly cultivated
Speaker 1: individual Westerner, but I think he lives in Thailand now
Speaker 1: and he was talking about meditation recently, and he was
Speaker 1: talking about practicing meditation and working on posture because pasture
Speaker 1: is important. Lazy pasture leads to lazy meditation to mind
Speaker 1: get sleepy. And he was just like, just do it.
Speaker 1: And maybe it's only twice a week, Okay, that's better
Speaker 1: than no times a week. Maybe it's only five minutes,
Speaker 1: that's better than no minutes. Don't be like, well, I
Speaker 1: want to do thirty minutes every single day and I
Speaker 1: didn't get to it, so therefore I suck. No, you
Speaker 1: still did cumulatively forty minutes this week, and next week
Speaker 1: maybe you do forty five. And that's perfectly fine. You
Speaker 1: know in the West, where we want everything so prescriptive,
Speaker 1: but the human body isn't very prescriptive. It's constantly changing.
Speaker 1: The day is constantly changing, the energies of the day
Speaker 1: are constantly changing. And I think we need to be
Speaker 1: kinder to ourselves, but we also have to be willing
Speaker 1: to say the unsaid to ourselves as well when necessary. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're being lazy. I could tell when I didn't do
Speaker 1: my dallion this morning because I got too excited about
Speaker 1: a project I was working it, working on right now,
Speaker 1: which I did complete today. So I'm very excited. And
Speaker 1: now I feel it, you know. And I remember my
Speaker 1: teacher saying, if you don't do Dallian one day, you
Speaker 1: know it, don't do Dallian two days. He's like, I
Speaker 1: know it. You don't do it three days. Your patients
Speaker 1: know it. And I'm like, ah, you know when he
Speaker 1: told me that twelve thirteen years ago, I was like, ah,
Speaker 1: you know, I got good. G I'm fine. Now I'm like, nah,
Speaker 1: he's fucking right. I feel it today. I didn't do it.
Speaker 1: I should have done it. That's funny. But I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna knock myself and be like, oh that's it. Fucking
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do dallion the rest of a week.
Speaker 1: I'll start again next week like a diet. Right, It's like, no,
Speaker 1: I'll get back on the horse, you know at all?
Speaker 2: You know what? The thing is really interesting and I
Speaker 2: think even a David Shoemaker even mentions it in his
Speaker 2: living Telemaus stuff and even says, I know, it's like
Speaker 2: it's not the most you know, exciting thing to do.
Speaker 2: But a lot of a lot of people that I
Speaker 2: would say have like somewhat something to listen to when
Speaker 2: it comes to maybe magical practices. They all say, you
Speaker 2: got to start meditating first. No, it sounds like it's
Speaker 2: boring and it sucks, and he wants start casting circles
Speaker 2: and doing all this, But everybody suggests to meditate first.
Speaker 1: The work of the AA is much more that way.
Speaker 1: You know, it's focus meditation, you know, at least for
Speaker 1: the first few grades. So you know, I mean I
Speaker 1: hold him in high regard. I think his work is
Speaker 1: very good, and uh, you know, he's one of the
Speaker 1: people that are more vocal about those components, especially in
Speaker 1: this whole podcast and in his book.
Speaker 2: Huge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because honestly, if you meditate the rest of the stuff,
Speaker 1: you'll be like, I don't really need to do that,
Speaker 1: you know, and well, like you know, not to make
Speaker 1: it a crolly thing, but you know, remember Crawley said,
Speaker 1: anything that's not aimed at discovering your true will is
Speaker 1: black magic. It makes you a black brother, right, So
Speaker 1: who cares about all the other things, the greater and
Speaker 1: lesser invoking whatever, unless it's aimed for you to find
Speaker 1: your true will, which most people are like, no, I
Speaker 1: need to banish this person out of my life. But
Speaker 1: if I get them out of my life, that means
Speaker 1: they'll get close to my true will. But you don't
Speaker 1: know your will, so how do you know that person is.
Speaker 1: That's sad you don't know. But you could also just
Speaker 1: tell them to just leave. You don't need a magic
Speaker 1: ritual to cut someone out of your freaking life. I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe you do, depending on how nasty they are, right,
Speaker 1: but like, generally no, it's because you don't have strong
Speaker 1: enough boundaries to actually tell people to get the fuck
Speaker 1: out of your life that you need to do it
Speaker 1: in secret with magic. But here's the thing, if you
Speaker 1: can't actualize it in the material plane, it ain't gonna work.
Speaker 1: You have to be able to physically back it up.
Speaker 1: And I think that's is that Lon Milo Duquet or
Speaker 1: someone else. That's basically you have to still do the
Speaker 1: magic and be able to do it in real life too.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not lawn, Maybe maybe it's actually ruin soup Gordon.
Speaker 1: I can't remember anymore, you know, I'm getting too old.
Speaker 1: My brain's not working. But you know, you have to
Speaker 1: back up the stuff of real, real things, you know,
Speaker 1: And often I don't see that. I see a lot
Speaker 1: of people wishing, you know, writing stuff down whatever, like
Speaker 1: do your sigil and then do all the work that's
Speaker 1: necessary to allow it that sigil to happen. You know,
Speaker 1: you if you want to win the lotto due to
Speaker 1: sigil for the lotto, but also go plate a lotto,
Speaker 1: play a lot can happen.
Speaker 2: It's win anyway, weight loss, but still change your diet.
Speaker 1: You can't just keep eating the cheese its, which I
Speaker 1: also had today. You can't keep eating the cheese its
Speaker 1: and expect to lose weight. You know that doesn't work.
Speaker 1: Even if you do. You know, and you know even
Speaker 1: if you did it. The Austin Osmond spare way and
Speaker 1: you know created that schigual with extra potency, so you know,
Speaker 1: hopefully the schigul wasn't on the cheez its, but nonetheless,
Speaker 1: for those who know they're a.
Speaker 2: Cold book, hopefully the cheese It's fun.
Speaker 1: The PR team is going to be like, what is
Speaker 1: wrong with you? And what does that mean?
Speaker 3: I wanted to mention a kind of conceptualization off of
Speaker 3: what you're saying earlier with the left hand path and
Speaker 3: the right right hand path and the mid path. The
Speaker 3: ability to be balanced, which is one of the effects
Speaker 3: of meditation, right, that that gets us to ascend, if
Speaker 3: you will, because we're not teetering, right, So meditation really
Speaker 3: has this balancing effect that just kind of allows us
Speaker 3: to rise up.
Speaker 1: I agree, and I think it's crucial. But I also
Speaker 1: say meditation comes in many forms, right, And you know,
Speaker 1: because a lot of people are like, oh, I can't
Speaker 1: meditate because maybe their lives are a little too chaotic.
Speaker 1: Right now, somebody sit and try to get still. It's
Speaker 1: a little wild. Well, meditation could be slow, taichi, it's
Speaker 1: a start, right, because a lot of in the West,
Speaker 1: what we call meditation is really just mental mind training.
Speaker 1: It's not actual meditation right in an Eastern definition, right,
Speaker 1: because the depths of meditation, you know, union of one
Speaker 1: and all that stuff that comes after training the mind.
Speaker 1: But most of the stuff, you know, what we call
Speaker 1: mindfulness in the West is an absolute joke. It's just
Speaker 1: training the mind to be less adhd, which has its benefits. Right,
Speaker 1: It's stage one of training. But like you know, Bakhdi Yoka,
Speaker 1: which is found in the AA but could be found
Speaker 1: in Roman Catholicism, Orthodox or probably in you know, Islam
Speaker 1: and Hindu devotion to something else side of yourself and
Speaker 1: tending to its statue or doing its prayers. There's novenas
Speaker 1: or whatever system you're working in is mind training and meditation.
Speaker 1: So if you can't train the mind and sit and
Speaker 1: you know, focus on one spot just yet, you can
Speaker 1: do other things to train the mind, and all of
Speaker 1: that perfects the mind and allows sort of things to come.
Speaker 1: When you look at the yoga stutters a pententolyy you know,
Speaker 1: it talks about the basic trainings and the stages of focus, right,
Speaker 1: and then eventually comes all the mysterious things, you know,
Speaker 1: psychic stuff, you know, and like all the things, and
Speaker 1: it says those are distractions. Pay no attention, otherwise you
Speaker 1: get stuck there in the West. We're aiming to get
Speaker 1: to those things so that we could stop there. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: now I'm psychic, and I can you know, see these things,
Speaker 1: and now you're actually trapped, you know, in the illusion,
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. You know, we need to train
Speaker 1: the mind so that we may get these psychic and
Speaker 1: preys or whatever. And we also say I don't care
Speaker 1: and I keep going and they go past that. That's
Speaker 1: when meditation starts, right. But you know, in the West,
Speaker 1: we want to take five hundred, six hundred dollars mindfulness
Speaker 1: courses with someone who went to Tibet for a weekend once,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's now getting paid all this money
Speaker 1: to teach you mindfulness and they're a psychologist or whatever.
Speaker 1: And I'm not picking on anyone because there's like nine
Speaker 1: hundred of them.
Speaker 2: They're all on YouTube.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that'll help someone. I'm not knocking it. Go
Speaker 1: take it. If you want to spend six hundred, seven
Speaker 1: hundred dollars for someone to tell you be less adhd cool,
Speaker 1: you know, but don't think you're better than someone else,
Speaker 1: because you can slow your mind down for a second,
Speaker 1: that you're superior and that you're now spiritual, which is
Speaker 1: what unfortunately comes you know, and then you wear your
Speaker 1: tied ie shirts and burn your Palo Santo or whatever
Speaker 1: and you're like, I'm spiritual. I'm over it. You know,
Speaker 1: this is what a lot of spiritualities become. And it's
Speaker 1: like spirituality is something you do like every day by
Speaker 1: yourself constantly when you meet strangers, you're practicing spirituality because
Speaker 1: it should be who you are. You shouldn't be practicing it.
Speaker 1: It should be a thing that you are. You're human.
Speaker 1: This is part of the divine right of being incarnated
Speaker 1: or whatever you want to believe. It's I did my
Speaker 1: practices in the morning, therefore that's it. You know. I
Speaker 1: do my dallion in the morning because I will forget
Speaker 1: if I don't. But I continue the focus of all
Speaker 1: those things as much as I can. So I guess
Speaker 1: I did my dallion today because I still focused on
Speaker 1: certain things. I paid attention to certain chi movements in
Speaker 1: my body and areas that were tight and make sure
Speaker 1: that they were flowing and whatnot. Because the Dallian practices
Speaker 1: I do or to make sure the burnings are open
Speaker 1: and make sure the cheese moving in the eight directions
Speaker 1: based on a baghwah. So I'm still aware of it.
Speaker 1: I don't just do it to dallion in the morning
Speaker 1: call it a day. Right, You don't do your prayer
Speaker 1: in the morning and say now I go be an asshole.
Speaker 1: I get on the subway and start being a dick.
Speaker 1: I love riding the subways and watching people in the morning.
Speaker 1: So like when I teach, unfortunately it's early in the morning,
Speaker 1: I gotta get in a subway and the amount of
Speaker 1: people that are dead, just dead, just checked out. And
Speaker 1: I'm like usually I got like the Misfits on or something,
Speaker 1: and I'm just enjoying my life and I'm looking at people,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm doing what I was trained not
Speaker 1: to do as a kid in the city of like
Speaker 1: make eye contact with people. But I'm like, yo, are
Speaker 1: you there? What's going? People just checked out? What kind
Speaker 1: of life is that? You know? But then they're gonna
Speaker 1: go to yoga at the end of the day and
Speaker 1: maybe even do their curtain practice and maybe get a
Speaker 1: little life back to them and then go back to
Speaker 1: feeling dead. Forgive me.
Speaker 3: I don't know who said it, but Jordan, you may
Speaker 3: don't let them see your practice, let them see the results.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's success be I prove porly right, like no
Speaker 1: one should know what I do, you know. And that
Speaker 1: was one of my biggest reservations of coming on here
Speaker 1: with Nick. It's like, well, I don't want to come
Speaker 1: out of a broom closet. Though I'm not a witch,
Speaker 1: never was so when we make that out there, right,
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm like, you know, some people look
Speaker 1: poorly upon being involved with more mystical things, right, but
Speaker 1: I also don't care. It's it's part of who I am.
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't I think those who look
Speaker 1: poorly upon someone having a spiritual life, you know, I
Speaker 1: questioned their life, not mine. Right, But no one should
Speaker 1: know what I practice, Nor have I said what I
Speaker 1: practice other than I do a dalli in practice. I
Speaker 1: haven't said any orders that I've been involved with or not.
Speaker 1: No one should know who cares whatever I'd be like,
Speaker 1: I'm a you know, two hundredth degree of the you
Speaker 1: know whatever, you know, reach around order like that, doesn't
Speaker 1: you know, Like so therefore listen to what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like that doesn't matter, right, But how many people on
Speaker 1: the internet like I'm a fucking you know, seventh degree
Speaker 1: of whatever, Like I who fucking cares? Like that's so dumb,
Speaker 1: you know, just like in martial arts, which I used
Speaker 1: to martial arts all the time, I'm an eighth don
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, but you can't move you're so fat,
Speaker 1: Like you know, I'm not picking up fat people, but
Speaker 1: like I know people like that. I'm like, who's asked?
Speaker 1: Are you kicking? I could run away. I don't need
Speaker 1: to be any done, right, it can run.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3: So isn't that why there's no belts in kung fu
Speaker 3: or tai chi?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, in Less than the West, right in
Speaker 1: my my when I did kung fu, we had sashes. So,
Speaker 1: but the idea was the sash got darker just because
Speaker 1: of the dirt of practicing. But no, really, you test
Speaker 1: it and you gotta sash because you gotta run a business.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's like in academ just because you
Speaker 1: have a pH d doesn't make you smart. Right. I
Speaker 1: know plenty of doctors that I'm like, oh god, right,
Speaker 1: And I know plenty of people that you know out
Speaker 1: of high school that are freaking brilliant, you know. So
Speaker 1: like these titles and all those things don't matter. So
Speaker 1: your spirituality, like who cares what you practice? I care
Speaker 1: who you are, right, because if you're a shithead, I
Speaker 1: don't give it. Actually, I want to know what you
Speaker 1: practice that, so I don't practice that.
Speaker 2: How are you doing that?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: Like we were talking about prosperity churches, right, I definitely
Speaker 1: don't want to practice that because I've seen enough of them.
Speaker 1: But I could think of my grandma, who was a
Speaker 1: sweet Sicilian sweet on some days, who had more you know,
Speaker 1: Roman statues around, and I would love to practice her
Speaker 1: religion more than the prosperity one because to her, she
Speaker 1: also kept the evil eye away because there was a
Speaker 1: lot of struggle under the like the old world mixed
Speaker 1: into it, and you know, but she lived a very
Speaker 1: alive practice. She prayed for everyone. Shit, I can't even
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, there's people I just still hate, right,
Speaker 1: but we want to knock Now I'm being honest, but
Speaker 1: we want to knock like you know, organized religion. But
Speaker 1: there's a woman who prayed for everyone. Fuck. If I
Speaker 1: could aspire to be that, I would feel good, you know. Instead,
Speaker 1: we spend so much time, especially in the Lima and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, you know. And it's not Fema itself.
Speaker 1: It's this artifact of Croley. But you know, everyone's like
Speaker 1: shit on Christianity and everything else. No one's really looked
Speaker 1: deep into what Crowley was talking about and how he
Speaker 1: actually saw Christ.
Speaker 2: You find that to be one of the funniest things
Speaker 2: within the.
Speaker 1: Cod you know, let's put that out there right converted
Speaker 1: Roman Catholicism and said that here lies all the secrets
Speaker 1: that I've been aspiring to. You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had a guy on, Carl Abrahamson, and he
Speaker 2: was on and we were me at least, we're asking
Speaker 2: him about like a, you know, the difference really between
Speaker 2: Catholicism and the and the you know, the Oto or whatever,
Speaker 2: like the mouse like church and all that stuff. And
Speaker 2: he said that basically Catholicism was more open in his opinion,
Speaker 2: in occult symbolism. But there's really some difference.
Speaker 1: If you haven't been to a Latin Mass, you know,
Speaker 1: if you've been to one, you'd be like, holy shit, right,
Speaker 1: because that's what all the solomatic magic was built on.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: You were supposed to have like under certain like the
Speaker 1: Mass of the Holy Spirit. You're supposed to have like
Speaker 1: certain implements underneath the altar consecrated during that mass and whatever.
Speaker 1: And like you go to a post Vatican two Mass
Speaker 1: and you're like, I don't see how this has anything
Speaker 1: to do with it. That's because it's been corrupted, in
Speaker 1: my opinion. But if you go to one of the
Speaker 1: old or an Orthodox Mass and you're like, yo, this
Speaker 1: is high magic. Like it's high magic. And I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, current Pope may rest in peace. You know,
Speaker 1: was in the process of banning the Latin rite, which
Speaker 1: makes me ask a lot of questions, you know. But
Speaker 1: it's all symbolism, but not just symbolism. It's it's potent,
Speaker 1: it's wild. You know. I can see how Frederikad was like, oh,
Speaker 1: but you have to have the eyes to see in
Speaker 1: the ears to hear.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: He did all the work, He understood it, and he
Speaker 1: actually explained it based on the Book of the Law,
Speaker 1: you know, and he first had to find you know,
Speaker 1: the the aon of map, you know, a mot to
Speaker 1: however you want to say it, you know, and then
Speaker 1: he converted later into Roman Catholicism. But I promise you
Speaker 1: he wasn't practicing what my grandma was practicing, you know.
Speaker 1: He's he had a different understanding of it at that point.
Speaker 1: You know. But the Golden Dawn says it too. An
Speaker 1: adept can practice and you know, an a depth can
Speaker 1: worship in any church or any temple. Yeah, it doesn't have.
Speaker 2: I believe that. Yeah, you know, you can find you
Speaker 2: that's just like what seven self, the seven is doing, right, well,
Speaker 2: it's just showing you the attributions of how you could
Speaker 2: identify with I think other things. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: that's what you do.
Speaker 1: That Jamatria is a whole nother bubble we can go down.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah that book, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know. And I just I think that's
Speaker 1: like my wish for people to maybe be more gentle
Speaker 1: with themselves yet honest with themselves. You know, when I
Speaker 1: had extra weight on me, I was like, yo, that's
Speaker 1: that I did that. Now I need to lose it
Speaker 1: because my my focus is my sleep was ship and
Speaker 1: with poor sleep, my practices were terrible. My dallion was
Speaker 1: half as good, you know. So being able to have
Speaker 1: honest conversations would also be gentle with yourself. Like cool,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm just going to make changes. It'll come
Speaker 1: off because I'm going to do the things, you know,
Speaker 1: And if I had pizza that day, I wouldn't be like,
Speaker 1: oh God, I ruined everything. And same with your spiritual practices.
Speaker 1: Instead of trying to you know, invoke into physical manifestation
Speaker 1: and be alt zaba or whatever, why don't you start
Speaker 1: with some simple prayer or devotional practice or simple meditation
Speaker 1: and get that dialed into a ten or maybe an eleven,
Speaker 1: and see how you feel. And then if you really
Speaker 1: want to evoke the alsabab, which I do not recommend,
Speaker 1: but if you really want to do that, I guarantee
Speaker 1: you it to work a lot better.
Speaker 2: One thing. Hate to get off that, you know, for
Speaker 2: what we're saying now, but it was something you had
Speaker 2: mentioned before, and it made me think about something else
Speaker 2: you said you could talk about. Possibly. You know, you
Speaker 2: were mentioned earlier about like going throughout the day and
Speaker 2: how the even you know, the change of the day
Speaker 2: and I guess the whole energy of the day can
Speaker 2: change with you. And then the influence of that. You
Speaker 2: did mention something earlier about even astrology and health. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: so just lightly touch on that maybe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I'm I'm actually a big fan of astrology.
Speaker 1: My backup plan was always like, you know, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: quit medicine and I'm just gonna do astrologically.
Speaker 2: Might be awesome, right, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean to some of these people get like five
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a visit for for charts and I'm like
Speaker 1: shit online from my you know, my couch. Well I
Speaker 1: could do this, you know, in my doctoral studies. In
Speaker 1: one of the more cultural anthropology classes, we looked at
Speaker 1: how astrology in Chinese medicine and then looked at it
Speaker 1: through different lenses through the West and everything else was
Speaker 1: being used because it was part of it. Just like
Speaker 1: in the West in medieval times, in Renaissance times, you
Speaker 1: had astrology as part of the kind of prognosis of
Speaker 1: a person. And from playing around with it, I've gotten
Speaker 1: pretty good at some of it. There's something to it,
Speaker 1: you know. And now I'll probably never publish an academic
Speaker 1: paper again for saying that it's like like going against
Speaker 1: COVID when it was like super in vogue to be
Speaker 1: pro COVID.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: Well, but at the same time, I don't think I would,
Speaker 1: you know, decide whether I get chemo or not because
Speaker 1: my astrological chart planet was in a different place where
Speaker 1: I've seen it be useful. Is kind of like to
Speaker 1: give you an idea of why is this occurring timing
Speaker 1: of certain things, maybe areas to look into, of types
Speaker 1: of treatments, but you know where it fulls short is
Speaker 1: more like astrological medicine, Like okay, well, I'm just going
Speaker 1: to get a talisman now based on this and and
Speaker 1: you know, my cancer goes away. I don't think that
Speaker 1: would happen. I would still make the tealsman, because why
Speaker 1: not you know, cover every single uh, you know, corner.
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, just like the West, we've
Speaker 1: been saying kind of lost this understanding spirituality, medicine has
Speaker 1: lost spirituality. And while I'm not saying time for medical
Speaker 1: doctors to cast your you'r a chart when you fall
Speaker 1: into the er for you know, a hoary chart or
Speaker 1: something like that, I think learning to integrate some of
Speaker 1: the things I think our ancestors and forefathers knew about disease.
Speaker 1: I mean, think of the word rheumatism, right, rheumatic rooms
Speaker 1: goes to the humors, right, which was you know, the
Speaker 1: Greek system. We talk about these things and we say
Speaker 1: when we have rheumatism, you know, when the cold is
Speaker 1: in our joints, or the dampness is in our joints
Speaker 1: it's a damp day, or the weather's changing, I feel it.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: We can say, oh, that's part of the barometric pressure changing,
Speaker 1: but not one hundred percent right, maybe on the dampness,
Speaker 1: but not the cold, right, or people doing better in
Speaker 1: certain climates. We always knew this, right, we send people
Speaker 1: to sanitariums. Right before it had like a negative term
Speaker 1: of being like the looney bin. But the sanitarium is
Speaker 1: where you got fresh air in sunlight. Right. If you
Speaker 1: look at the latest research of sunlight and morning sunlight
Speaker 1: specifically it's effect on circadian rhythm, and even there's research
Speaker 1: out there that the reason why we're suffering from cholesterol
Speaker 1: issues is because we're not getting morning sunlight, which cleaves
Speaker 1: and sets up a certain cascade metabolically that starts making
Speaker 1: our body able to use cholesterol, so it actually lowers
Speaker 1: our cholesterol and prevents placking. We used to see the
Speaker 1: morning sunlight all the time. We used to be out
Speaker 1: and get sunlight all the time. Now we don't go outside.
Speaker 1: We're in blue light constantly. The sunlight through our windows
Speaker 1: is filtered, so we don't get DEEM for red red spectrum,
Speaker 1: which is the spectrum that's needed to counter that blue light. Right,
Speaker 1: So we're in these sick environments. We don't go to
Speaker 1: sleep when we're supposed to go to sleep. Right, we
Speaker 1: were bombarded with like dopamine stimulating things. We know all
Speaker 1: these things. We're so far removed from what it means
Speaker 1: to be human and bringing in more humanness and spirituality
Speaker 1: would start with fresh air and sunlight, clean water, clean food,
Speaker 1: you know, shutting down at night. I have a tungsten
Speaker 1: halogen tungsten bulb above. It's not on right now because
Speaker 1: it would make me glow as if, you know, my
Speaker 1: spirituality would be even bigger because tungsten is incandestined emit
Speaker 1: all the foreig infrared. So I use it to help
Speaker 1: balance out my light when I'm working at my workstation.
Speaker 1: It's also a nice quality light. But you know, I
Speaker 1: try to make my indoor light as adaptable to outside
Speaker 1: as possible because I still have to work inside. And
Speaker 1: the health measurements are like ridiculous sleep quality, energy, weight loss, mood,
Speaker 1: all these things. So learning to be a human is
Speaker 1: so crucial, and we don't do that anymore. That's why everything,
Speaker 1: like the Western systems are messed up, Western medicines messed up,
Speaker 1: everyone's sicks, Society hates each other because we don't know
Speaker 1: what it means to be human anymore. My opinion, at
Speaker 1: least you're gonna get so much hape, Nick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I read most of it.
Speaker 1: Message Nick, not me.
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, uh somebody that I was just got
Speaker 2: done recording on my own. I did like a solo show.
Speaker 2: I covered Marsilio Ficino, And you know, I thought that
Speaker 2: he was an important person and you know, just for
Speaker 2: the cultist, I think to know about are people interested
Speaker 2: into magic. But he was somebody who was involved in
Speaker 2: the Catholic Church also. But he was really huge in
Speaker 2: like thinking, you know, talking about you know, music helping too,
Speaker 2: like a lot of the stuff that you were saying
Speaker 2: like he was. He was even saying back then he
Speaker 2: thought it was important for the health and the body.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, we can go forever about music and
Speaker 1: and and sound and even Gregorian chanting or anything like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Even with astrology he was into that as well. Well.
Speaker 1: The Catholic Church always used astrology, No, I mean it
Speaker 1: was always there and you know who manking on it.
Speaker 1: But like who is a group of his teacher he
Speaker 1: was the abbot of why truthemis.
Speaker 2: Yes, he.
Speaker 1: Was, you know a priest, if not more, most of
Speaker 1: the people who wrote those books were priests.
Speaker 2: Oh even look at like Alberta's Maggus. I mean, the
Speaker 2: guy's a fucking saint.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you know these people had huge spiritual practices
Speaker 1: and then we're do these things and now we from
Speaker 1: the West, we want to get off the subway or
Speaker 1: you know, come out of a you know, nine hours
Speaker 1: in a job we hate, and then think they were
Speaker 1: gonna be able to you know, contra asmodius or something right,
Speaker 1: because why not asmonius? Right? No one wants to conjure him,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's mind blowing, you know where the
Speaker 1: priest is like writing and you know he's good at this,
Speaker 1: but like, you know, be careful. He could be deceptive.
Speaker 1: And that's the priest who you know, has a great
Speaker 1: relationship with all the saints and everything else. And it's
Speaker 1: purified his body and gone to confession and you know,
Speaker 1: probably hasn't done anything terrible, right, so his his energy
Speaker 1: is pretty high and he's like be careful. We're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I hate my life. Let me conjure this guy. I
Speaker 1: need a few bucks. It's weird.
Speaker 2: It's weird, I will say. You know, I don't know
Speaker 2: if it was like a timing, but like I remember
Speaker 2: like when me and you, like when we were living
Speaker 2: near each other, assore each other, but we're still never
Speaker 2: actually living near each other. You did live pretty far.
Speaker 1: But we think we were close to each other.
Speaker 2: But but what I see, but what I used to
Speaker 2: talk to you like more oftenly and see you. I
Speaker 2: don't know what it was. I don't know if it
Speaker 2: was a thing or maybe it's just like this all
Speaker 2: the time, but it seemed like there was like some
Speaker 2: sort of goetic revival and it was just but it
Speaker 2: was just like very like ignorantly dumb.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there was around that time, you had
Speaker 1: the Trithemius books that were coming out, which were all
Speaker 1: pretty good, and I think a lot of people were
Speaker 1: starting to you know, conjure spirits into crystals and whatnot,
Speaker 1: which should be the angels and stuff. And around that time,
Speaker 1: I think people were starting to get into like trying
Speaker 1: to do goetic work as well, but it was like
Speaker 1: a redacted form of goetic work. It wasn't like full
Speaker 1: high magic. And there were some people doing it, and
Speaker 1: I think some people were doing it quite successfully, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not knocking Gaetia. But you also had like Jack
Speaker 1: Grail was doing his Hika Da work, and they also
Speaker 1: had the PGM stuff. So there were like a lot
Speaker 1: of books that came out then, so a lot of
Speaker 1: people were doing PGM type stuff. It was you know,
Speaker 1: it was COVID, right, you know, I mean people had
Speaker 1: a lot of free time, you know, and I mean energetically,
Speaker 1: COVID's a perfect time for goetic work. World's exploding energy,
Speaker 1: right you know. I mean, yeah, yeah, I won't I
Speaker 1: won't go further to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I want to be able to leave this
Speaker 2: up on YouTube.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: It's like the only thing it gives me a problem
Speaker 2: with at all for some reason, is that Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: when it comes to the occult, I guess like maybe
Speaker 2: as long as you, like, say, you're kind of theorizing
Speaker 2: it or is this my idea, they really never seem
Speaker 2: to really care unless you're saying somehow landish rap that
Speaker 2: I don't even say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, I mean I wouldn't want to practice.
Speaker 2: That stuff, Jennet either. Was there anything else you wanted
Speaker 2: to ask or anything or it?
Speaker 4: Well, I thought that was really fascinating in terms of
Speaker 4: the sort of Catholic Rosicrucianism or like the idea of
Speaker 4: a hermeneutic within Catholicism, because I think, like with Nick,
Speaker 4: this often comes up. We talk about it all the time,
Speaker 4: and just how prominent and just looking from as an
Speaker 4: outsider kind of like just seeing it, like you can
Speaker 4: see the cabalistic undertones. You can see where they preference
Speaker 4: on the tree. You can see they love that Tiferadic
Speaker 4: gold heart and all that. So it's really, you know,
Speaker 4: it's it's it's edifying, and I think it's good for
Speaker 4: me to hear it, but then also for other people
Speaker 4: here because you're a lot more respectable than me, and
Speaker 4: so you know, so people can hear it and they
Speaker 4: and they know it's not just like me being like
Speaker 4: weird on Twitter or whatever, which is probably what they think,
Speaker 4: but there is like some underlying magical system and as
Speaker 4: well with Orthodoxy, and this is why I'm considered to
Speaker 4: be the bane of the Ortho bros. On Twitter, because
Speaker 4: so I'll follow me, but they won't ever respond to me.
Speaker 4: Jadai or if you're listening, he does follow me. So
Speaker 4: I'm just saying, but they'll never respond because it's like
Speaker 4: you can call out there kind of like the way
Speaker 4: he does is PfP. I'm not saying Jay in particular,
Speaker 4: but just all of them, and just you can just
Speaker 4: use the image of the cabalistic tree with the Orthodox
Speaker 4: I mean there's a you know tree right there, and
Speaker 4: so they get freaked out when you sort of make
Speaker 4: these very obvious, you know, first density kind of ideas.
Speaker 4: They don't like it. They don't like to break those
Speaker 4: klee bus So I just wanted to say thank you
Speaker 4: for saying that, I.
Speaker 1: Like break those kleipers.
Speaker 2: I like that, you know, there was there was one
Speaker 2: thing I did want to mention, uh, and I think
Speaker 2: you will. You you could even well, I guess without
Speaker 2: giving away anything, you could probably vouch for my theory
Speaker 2: on this. But just from my experience in the OTO
Speaker 2: and going through things that I have, or just even
Speaker 2: just regular practices, as somebody could come in and probably
Speaker 2: see if you go in there and you don't hate
Speaker 2: Catholicism and go in there not biased, I think you'll
Speaker 2: actually see a lot of it within the order. And
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people want to acknowledge that
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 1: I mean, well that you know that comes straight out Crawley,
Speaker 1: because Crawley, you know, had a love hate thing with Christ,
Speaker 1: you know, because the way he grew up and his
Speaker 1: parents and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: If I think if you read it to a boy,
Speaker 2: I think he had more of a problem with the
Speaker 2: way the Church was presenting it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was mostly the church. I think
Speaker 1: when he was younger, I think it was all of
Speaker 1: the above. As he got older and matured, and I
Speaker 1: think if you look at some of the depths of
Speaker 1: some of the works, you know, even from like a
Speaker 1: rosicruction lens and stuff like that, it's there. There is
Speaker 1: an understanding of Christ and what it means, and maybe
Speaker 1: that role it plays in spirituality that I think those
Speaker 1: who come in hating you know, Christianity or whatever, I
Speaker 1: think it's just going to limit them because you know,
Speaker 1: you live in the West, in which case it's impacted
Speaker 1: by Christianity. We can hate the pedos, right, we can
Speaker 1: hate the prosperity churches, but you know, the the world
Speaker 1: that we live in has been fundamentally affected by Christianity.
Speaker 1: So you have to understand it. You can't hate the
Speaker 1: world that you existed. It's you know, fundamentally against your
Speaker 1: own growth, you know. So I think it's the borrow
Speaker 1: from the Christians. You know, hate the sin, not the sinner, right,
Speaker 1: don't hate the vehicle, hate the things that are wrong
Speaker 1: with the vehicle.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to ask one more tiny little thing
Speaker 3: I appreciate because I like to do it. And Jen
Speaker 3: and Nick and you are really brought together East and West.
Speaker 3: I wonder you know how that might help you understand
Speaker 3: one or the other, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I mean it definitely. I mean
Speaker 1: growing up and stuff, I was much more on the
Speaker 1: West side stuff. Grew up Roman Catholic, but always practicing
Speaker 1: weird shit. So and then I want to say, like
Speaker 1: about nineteen or maybe twenty ish, I started with taichi
Speaker 1: and yoga and then started going to a Theravado watt
Speaker 1: and training in Therabauda Buddhasm. So I started learning meditation
Speaker 1: like properly, whatever hell that means, and started noticing that
Speaker 1: it was a little more potent for me. And then
Speaker 1: I oscillated between West and East practices, and I think
Speaker 1: I was grabbing because I got certain things from the
Speaker 1: West that I couldn't get from the East, and I
Speaker 1: got certain things from East I couldn't get from the West.
Speaker 1: I've realized, as I've matured that it's an issue with
Speaker 1: having proper teachers, proper access to the material, and not
Speaker 1: being mature, not spending enough time in the practice to
Speaker 1: see it flour For what it is. I think both
Speaker 1: systems have probably everything in it, but it's do you
Speaker 1: have access to it? And can it work for you?
Speaker 1: And I think different temperaments need different practices. Also, different
Speaker 1: stages of life need different practices, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, what practice are you going to do when
Speaker 1: you're twenty and randy is very different than the practice
Speaker 1: you can do in your forties when you're divorced or
Speaker 1: going through divorce? Right, Like, those are two different stages
Speaker 1: of life, you know. So I think the only thing
Speaker 1: I can say to your question, Ethan, is more like
Speaker 1: seeing and traveling in both and then still travel in both.
Speaker 1: It's just made me aware that it's more of a
Speaker 1: me problem than the systems, and just spending the time
Speaker 1: and making sure that I asked the right questions and
Speaker 1: finding right teachers and relaxing and not trying to, you know,
Speaker 1: reach nirvana immediately, which it hasn't happened or union or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's okay, you know, I think, Yeah, I think I
Speaker 1: think we approached this like we're taking on a new
Speaker 1: martial art or new gym or a new sport. We
Speaker 1: take this new tradition when we're when we're young and
Speaker 1: we're going to master it. I don't think that happens
Speaker 1: in spirituality because master's like that's weird, right, Like Nick
Speaker 1: and I have been through the orders and stuff I have.
Speaker 1: I have met some people that have definitely achieved certain
Speaker 1: states of mastery. I will definitely say the orders produce things.
Speaker 1: But by and far, far, very very little people achieve
Speaker 1: much of anything other than they can talk a lot
Speaker 1: about practices, and it becomes like you know, a color's card.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, oh, did you get this new Pokemon?
Speaker 1: You know, well, that Pokemon really gives you x amount
Speaker 1: of points, you know, like you argue over the the things,
Speaker 1: you know, which is part of a society. Remember, cult
Speaker 1: groups are also societies. So you have your own tribalism,
Speaker 1: you have your own stuff that you bond over. So
Speaker 1: it's not wrong to do those things. But we get
Speaker 1: stuck there, you know, And I think you know, and
Speaker 1: I forgot who said it, Probably a lot of people.
Speaker 1: But the West is failing to initiate, by it far,
Speaker 1: the East is not failing to initiate. If you're doing
Speaker 1: it on percentages, right, both will initiate, both will fail
Speaker 1: to initiate. But the West is failing to initiate way stronger.
Speaker 1: And I don't know why I don't. There can be
Speaker 1: a million reasons why.
Speaker 2: I can see that.
Speaker 1: Actually, that's going to get some shit, you know, from
Speaker 1: the person who's going to tell us that they're well
Speaker 1: initiated and how we're wrong. You know what, Let me
Speaker 1: declare it right off. I've been initiated in many things.
Speaker 1: I don't consider myself advanced in anything. I'm just a human,
Speaker 1: so I may be in error. But from my lowly position,
Speaker 1: I have noticed that the West has failed to initiate
Speaker 1: much more than East.
Speaker 2: I think that's what I said. I agree with that.
Speaker 2: What do you think about Chin?
Speaker 4: Well, thanks boss for asking what did I think about it?
Speaker 4: I agree? Well, Tantreon is very very popular in Russia
Speaker 4: and all of Asia, like the most popular religion by far.
Speaker 4: Even the Xijingping's wife is Treona practitioner. I call it Chokran. Actually,
Speaker 4: so there is you know, there's a I think that
Speaker 4: there is an idea that Western dharma has not really
Speaker 4: planted its seed fully. And that makes sense, right, because
Speaker 4: there's been different Just like with Tibet, it took multiple
Speaker 4: transmissions to really take root. So I think it's the
Speaker 4: same with everything. And like look at India. India had
Speaker 4: the dharma, they had everything, they could have done supposedly,
Speaker 4: just based on like a pristine idea of the world
Speaker 4: or pristine ideas, they should have been able to bloom.
Speaker 4: But it didn't. So I think that that's kind of
Speaker 4: the you know, the cycle of the world that we
Speaker 4: went through. Like if you want to call it cal Yuga,
Speaker 4: that's fine, you know, so, but the idea in Calyuga
Speaker 4: really is not the decay of the knowledge. It's the
Speaker 4: decay of the knowledge of the method, meaning like how
Speaker 4: do we implement it? And so in twenty twenty, as
Speaker 4: in now, we are going through a Saturn Neptune conjunction.
Speaker 4: So I know Jordan brought up astrology. So interesting note
Speaker 4: is that that can also be described as like the
Speaker 4: Bina Pokema relationship if you want to apply kind of
Speaker 4: the outer three to you know, the higher series. So
Speaker 4: that's an idea. So it's it's like smoke and matter
Speaker 4: at the same time. So it is very carnal ground.
Speaker 4: It's very like burning ground. It's like what do you
Speaker 4: make of it? That's kind of how I see it.
Speaker 4: Now we're kind of like in this state of flux.
Speaker 4: We have all the access to all these things. We
Speaker 4: know that just like as Jordan said at the very beginning,
Speaker 4: it's like the left hand path is the lightning is
Speaker 4: the lightning path. That's one hundred percent, you know, that's
Speaker 4: one hundred percent correct. So because it is both because
Speaker 4: it is brought to bringing all it was into synthesis,
Speaker 4: rectifying everything you're drawing from into synthesis into yourself. Really
Speaker 4: so I think we in my opinion, it is what
Speaker 4: we make of it. So we're going to build something.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's inside the older institutional orders. And
Speaker 4: my this is just my personal opinion as a millennial
Speaker 4: is like a little bit younger. I just I don't
Speaker 4: see it there because people I don't know it just
Speaker 4: I think there's we've gone through too much, and like
Speaker 4: you have to capture the millennials, you have to capture
Speaker 4: the zoomers, you have to capture you know, jen Alpha,
Speaker 4: And I just I think everyone's a little decentralized, a
Speaker 4: little decoherent, and no one really wants to follow the leader.
Speaker 4: People are into the idea of like mastery of their
Speaker 4: own destiny, which I think is in general positive but
Speaker 4: there's a lot of traps, Like astrology can be a
Speaker 4: trap because people can then worship the planets and the
Speaker 4: stars as very fixed, very like almost fatalistic, like you
Speaker 4: were just choice, you know, exactly exactly. So I think
Speaker 4: the idea of free will is like important to say,
Speaker 4: and so I think that's it's in any it's in
Speaker 4: any practice, and I'm glad you of that, because it
Speaker 4: is like you can do anything, but you have to
Speaker 4: do it. It is like the s like I say,
Speaker 4: the sodnize everything. The practice is everything. That's what Buddhism is.
Speaker 4: It's just you just you do it. You get up,
Speaker 4: take your beads, and you do it. That's it. So
Speaker 4: one hundred percent agree.
Speaker 1: You know, Crowley wanted to bring the New A on.
Speaker 1: It says that Thelma is going to fix everything. If
Speaker 1: that's true, we probably have to wait like three four
Speaker 1: hundred years to find out, you know. I read on
Speaker 1: one of the Thelembic things It's like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: Christianity took like three four hundred years before it even
Speaker 1: started coming together, so this is early new An. We're
Speaker 1: only one hundred years in and I'm just like so, like,
Speaker 1: I guess like Mark wasn't even written yet, right, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know, I don't even buy it,
Speaker 1: you know, I would definitely in a a morphing period
Speaker 1: like Jen was saying, you know, how to get everyone
Speaker 1: behind it, I'm not sure, and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: if you look at if it's a switch between periods,
Speaker 1: there's some people that from like the thelemic idea, some
Speaker 1: people are still the older current, the old Aon, some
Speaker 1: people are a newer a On. Then there's the theories
Speaker 1: that there may be dual AONs or multiple AONs at
Speaker 1: the same time, So there could be the Aon of
Speaker 1: Matt or not how you want to say it, right,
Speaker 1: So it might be different kind of vehicles for different people,
Speaker 1: depending on their karmac seed or whatever. But maybe that's
Speaker 1: true always. You know, maybe we're just got so much
Speaker 1: technology now that we can see these things in such
Speaker 1: rapid fire. You know, I don't know, you know, I
Speaker 1: think about this a lot, but I think ultimately, the
Speaker 1: moment a person decides I'm done and I'm just going
Speaker 1: to start working on being a better human and find
Speaker 1: out what it means to be human, the moment none
Speaker 1: of that matters, you know, you can take that ownership
Speaker 1: and you just say today and do my practice the end,
Speaker 1: do I die?
Speaker 2: Hopefully I could, I could be the oldermate formaged.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, but you know, think about it too, It's like,
Speaker 1: what why why do we do spiritual practices? Usually because
Speaker 1: we're trying to fix something that we feel is broken
Speaker 1: or feel not connected, right, trying to make our lives
Speaker 1: better and make ourselves happier. But if you just increase
Speaker 1: your happiness and you know, you learn more about yourself,
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily have to hit the you know, the
Speaker 1: period where you suddenly, you know, hit a non dual
Speaker 1: state and you suddenly, you know, become like you know,
Speaker 1: an immortal you know, or something like that. Like you
Speaker 1: you could just be like my grandma and just pray
Speaker 1: for people and be happy. And that's a great stopping point,
Speaker 1: and there's no shame in that being a stopping point,
Speaker 1: you know. Like I think a lot of people get
Speaker 1: attracted at least in the West, but you know, the East,
Speaker 1: maybe I just I'm not sure, but we get attracted
Speaker 1: these things because we feel something's lost. But we're we're
Speaker 1: we're not living like humans anymore, so of course things
Speaker 1: feel lost right, what's our sense of community? Like I
Speaker 1: live in Brooklyn, and you know, and I love where
Speaker 1: I live, but it's like this place is crazy, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I and you know, I put in the app
Speaker 1: the other day three one one to get homeless assistance
Speaker 1: because I was in Union Square and some guys playing
Speaker 1: with his dick and obviously, you know, we're not a
Speaker 1: bunch of kids, and I'm just like homeless man playing
Speaker 1: with his dick. I put it in the app and
Speaker 1: place like stay right back, and they're like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: we're not handling that. You know, that's for someone else.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what connection. We're like a low trust
Speaker 1: society here, right, versus like a high trust society. So
Speaker 1: what is the stress of living in a low trust society?
Speaker 1: You know? On a human It's it's wild, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think about that because I'm like, oh, do
Speaker 1: I have to leave in New York one time? Because
Speaker 1: I don't want to, you know, but I'm like, at
Speaker 1: a certain point, you know, what would it feel like
Speaker 1: to live in a place where I don't have to
Speaker 1: lock my door? You know, Nick, you and I grew
Speaker 1: up in a time on you know, yeah, here, we
Speaker 1: didn't have to lock our doors, you know, Like I
Speaker 1: remember being told, you know, come home when the street
Speaker 1: lights went off, right, parents didn't know where we were,
Speaker 1: you know, and nothing bad happened because we knew everyone.
Speaker 2: You know, we all went home.
Speaker 1: Try that in Brooklyn right now, you know, like kids
Speaker 1: going to disappear, come home on crack or something like.
Speaker 1: It's it's not gonna work, you know.
Speaker 2: Definitely, the world definitely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're in a strange time, which I believe is
Speaker 1: I believe they say it's a Chinese curse. But I've
Speaker 1: seen a quoted so many times as maybe you live
Speaker 1: in interesting times, you know, because it's it's not good
Speaker 1: to live in interesting times, you know, they say that
Speaker 1: the when when society falls apart, the emperor whoever's in charge,
Speaker 1: just lost the tending the mandate of heaven, no longer
Speaker 1: ruling in accordance with the heavens. So the heavens just
Speaker 1: gonna start, you know, falcking ship up until it reorganizes itself.
Speaker 1: And I think maybe that's just where we're at right now.
Speaker 1: You know, when things get good again, things will feel good.
Speaker 1: Otherwise the world is just going to shake things up.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean I can't feel good.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I definitely think the run like a chaos
Speaker 2: stage a chance you have to. I mean, that's the
Speaker 2: whole thing of a magician too, is like you know
Speaker 2: that that's what you should be able to do. Is
Speaker 2: you got to kind of like create a GPS to
Speaker 2: still get where you're going. So you're going to have
Speaker 2: to adjust to the world around your own life to
Speaker 2: still be able to get through it.
Speaker 1: You had still doing I think from the soup right,
Speaker 1: not too long ago, and that that's been his whole
Speaker 1: stick for years. He's like this, we're heading to where
Speaker 1: everything's exploding. Learn to be a productive magician or whatever.
Speaker 1: Learn to find out where you can live, make sure
Speaker 1: you understand how your resources work. And basically I think
Speaker 1: he uses the terms learn to enchant yourself out of
Speaker 1: these problems. You know, like you're still gonna have problems
Speaker 1: with learned to get yourself out of them, right, just
Speaker 1: use all your skills of you know. For him, he's
Speaker 1: you know, very chaos inspired to navigate a time that
Speaker 1: is just not good for humans. So it's not a
Speaker 1: good time right now, but you know that's that's why
Speaker 1: we would be learning these practices. I don't know if
Speaker 1: he spoke about that stuff or whatnot, but that's that's
Speaker 1: been his thing for a few years now, you know,
Speaker 1: especially on the private forums and stuff teaching people how
Speaker 1: to practically live safe and happy. During this period.
Speaker 2: Did before we wrap it up hour and a half,
Speaker 2: General Ethan, was there anything you wanted to.
Speaker 4: I had three things really quiet. First of all, what
Speaker 4: your grandma, I think you said he was doing. That's
Speaker 4: body Cheeta vao. So that's like our bodyslvo vaw. So
Speaker 4: she's cultivating body cheeta basically. So that so that's totally
Speaker 4: a terminus. It's totally like a liberatory or endpoint you
Speaker 4: could say, for someone's practice. So I also try and
Speaker 4: do that, but I'm probably not successful now I've forgotten.
Speaker 4: But thank you, Jordan. It was really illuminating to speak
Speaker 4: with you. And I appreciate the groundedness you brought to
Speaker 4: all these like sort of higher metaphysical ideals.
Speaker 1: I appreciate the kind words. And I had no clue
Speaker 1: what I was doing on here. I even checked with
Speaker 1: my PR team. First. I was like, it's okay, is
Speaker 1: this going to mess up my brand? And then I
Speaker 1: realized I don't care no, because these scenes need to
Speaker 1: be said. And I think true healing is not just
Speaker 1: things that you do or the herbs you take or
Speaker 1: the pharmaceuticals you take, but it's it's learning to heal,
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's society, family, your emotions, you know,
Speaker 1: and that starts with a practice. But that doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be anything other than calming your mind down. You know.
Speaker 1: That's all simple stuff, you know, But I appreciate the
Speaker 1: kind and if you remember to two other things. I
Speaker 1: also knew my grandmother and she was a tough Sicilian woman,
Speaker 1: so I don't know she had much bodichta, but but
Speaker 1: she was at least practicing it.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I loved your idea. I did remember, so
Speaker 4: I loved your idea of the multiple aths. This is
Speaker 4: actually something that I have discussed a little bit and
Speaker 4: even on this show with Nick, on my own show especially,
Speaker 4: But I do think that that's probably true in my opinion,
Speaker 4: just my opinion, So I do. I do believe I
Speaker 4: called the aon of the daughter. I know other people
Speaker 4: have written about that, but that is kind of how
Speaker 4: I've done it. So we've been doing like these kind
Speaker 4: of speculative gnostic spaces where we touch on a lot
Speaker 4: of the ideas like maybe not exactly but coming from
Speaker 4: my own perspective, but we touch a lot of the
Speaker 4: ideas that you talked about. So I find it very
Speaker 4: personally edifying and interesting just for that reason, the idea
Speaker 4: of multiple ans and like what could they be, what
Speaker 4: could they call? Could different people beyond you could say,
Speaker 4: different karmic tielines as you said, so very strength.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think about it a lot. I have no answers.
Speaker 1: I think it's probably true, but who knows, maybe this
Speaker 1: reality doesn't exist, and you know, but it's just all
Speaker 1: manifestations of one and some sort of weird mind golf guessing.
Speaker 1: Who knows, you know. I think about that too.
Speaker 2: So I remember one time I think you were like
Speaker 2: we were tossing around like certain ideas that we thought
Speaker 2: were like, we're interesting. I can't remember what it was,
Speaker 2: but we were like I remember, afraid to like break my
Speaker 2: brain if I even entertained that too much. I think
Speaker 2: it was something where I was like I was talking
Speaker 2: about like the eyes or like you know, reflecting something
Speaker 2: in your life.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think you sent me something a while
Speaker 1: ago and I was like, yeah, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the stuff I like the things that I've I've always
Speaker 1: been into some of the stuff like from the Monroe Institute,
Speaker 1: and then like Tom Campbell, who I guess was actually
Speaker 1: on Rogan not too long ago, you know, where it's
Speaker 1: kind of like what does consciousness actually be? And it's
Speaker 1: kind of like this examination of the non dual from
Speaker 1: this dualistic view, and Tom uses this whole like virtual
Speaker 1: reality kind of framework that everything's just one virtual reality gameplay,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, shit, maybe that's true because it doesn't
Speaker 1: actually break any of the things that I see from
Speaker 1: like an Eastern or Western tradition at its depths. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe it's just a modern way of talking about non dual.
Speaker 1: You should have him on Nick that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, somebody had told me that he had that somebody
Speaker 2: was talking about the Gateway process on the recently.
Speaker 1: Was actually yeah, no, he's super interesting, super interesting. It's
Speaker 1: a lot of that progress stuff from like Monroe Institute.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, like like Jin said, it's like
Speaker 1: I'm always thinking about like, well, what is this? I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's fun to think about it.
Speaker 2: Those are definitely interesting. Yeah, uh Ethan, oh oh, Jin,
Speaker 2: did you did you have one more left. I'm so
Speaker 2: sorry I might have been cutting you off there, No.
Speaker 4: Don't be sorry. No, I think that I was going
Speaker 4: to make the aonic comment into a question, but I
Speaker 4: go for it during kind of answered it. No, No,
Speaker 4: that's okay, thank you so much, and I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: I no, thank you, thank you. I'm just trying to
Speaker 2: get you to talk about with that new microphone.
Speaker 4: Yet, well, you know, I have to get in all
Speaker 4: the practice especially, you know, and this is like kind
Speaker 4: of our topic. Like this is like the topic that
Speaker 4: I love the most. It's like other people who have
Speaker 4: more of a At the very beginning, we discussed like
Speaker 4: the transactional nature like the Some people have called it
Speaker 4: the third worldification of magic because it's become like a
Speaker 4: botanica magic like a very it's all transactional. So it
Speaker 4: was like get this, get that, some in this goetic
Speaker 4: do this. And I think that part of that was
Speaker 4: because that's kind of the magic. Like my generation and
Speaker 4: magicians was raised on like the bout the Bog forum
Speaker 4: and you know, watching Eric's YouTube videos and like you know,
Speaker 4: it's like very showmanship. Like I was never really attracted
Speaker 4: to it, but I was like you know, I'm into
Speaker 4: chaos magic and frameworks and looking at and lifting frameworks
Speaker 4: from maybe there original context, but also like looking at
Speaker 4: what the original context was as best as I could.
Speaker 4: So it did seem to prove like a roadmap in
Speaker 4: some ways, but I agree that it's not a good
Speaker 4: path like it just didn't. It doesn't result in fruit.
Speaker 4: So I would rather focus on things that do personally.
Speaker 4: That's just my personal opinion now. So I think I've
Speaker 4: matured though, and I think that's also part of like,
Speaker 4: and Jordan touched on this, Like you said what he
Speaker 4: would practice at twenty but will use the magic number
Speaker 4: twenty two? Is it going to be different than what
Speaker 4: you're going to practice at like in my mid thirty
Speaker 4: sea exactly, So like what because your mind is different,
Speaker 4: you've like matured a little and you're able to kind
Speaker 4: of put those things aside. So no, I thought that
Speaker 4: was a great point as well.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you, Jean and Ethan, is anything you'd
Speaker 2: like to add before?
Speaker 3: I'd just like to say that was a really grounded
Speaker 3: take on spirituality. And to your point on there being
Speaker 3: a lacking of initiation, I think it's more people are
Speaker 3: looking for prosperity instead of looking for that inner journey,
Speaker 3: that inner course of initiation, right, tendency not totality. I
Speaker 3: just want to say, I really appreciate your perspective.
Speaker 1: Oh, I welcome the kind of words. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a time and place for magic of necessity, right, especially
Speaker 1: if you look at like the African diasporatic traditions and
Speaker 1: stuff and why some of those things came about. But
Speaker 1: in a in a first world, in a modern world,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know how how much of a
Speaker 1: necessity it is to you know, get you know, the
Speaker 1: hop aarista to give you her phone number, you know,
Speaker 1: through magic, right, you know, like that, you know, and
Speaker 1: that's what has come down to. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: so it's like there's a time and place. Look, if
Speaker 1: you're in danger, there might be you know, like who
Speaker 1: do is effective, you know, but it's not gonna I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think in that practice that way, it's going
Speaker 1: to evolve you in a true initiated tradition of who do,
Speaker 1: not just someone who gets a book of who do
Speaker 1: and tries to do some honey traps and you know,
Speaker 1: wipe someone's name on the toilet paper wipe their ass
Speaker 1: with it to make the person go away. It actually works,
Speaker 1: but you like, it's you know, that's a very Western view.
Speaker 1: It's a cultural appropriated view. And you know, I hate
Speaker 1: using those terms, but it's like it's just ripped from
Speaker 1: its deep roots and the tradition that comes with it
Speaker 1: and the practices that come within the community that comes
Speaker 1: with it, which is the spiritual side of it. You know,
Speaker 1: we just take the you know, commodity of it. You know,
Speaker 1: we just buy the one thing, you know, the spirituar.
Speaker 1: And actually you can buy a premate spiritual honey jar,
Speaker 1: and you know, and they'll even they'll sell you the
Speaker 1: honey too. Like you can't even get the honey from
Speaker 1: the person with the bees in your local area. Now
Speaker 1: you got to buy the Amazon honey. You know, they
Speaker 1: put in your honey jar so that someone will be
Speaker 1: kind to you when you write their name put in
Speaker 1: the jar.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: Okay, it could work, but why you can also just
Speaker 1: say hi and smile?
Speaker 2: Try that first, right, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know, you know, it's worth worth a shot. Sure,
Speaker 1: I'll get more people to hate me because of that.
Speaker 1: Do you ever say anything? People only hear the thing
Speaker 1: that you say, and not the full thing like the
Speaker 1: honoring of the tradition and why you know it should
Speaker 1: be seen in the tradition. They'll they'll hear you shout
Speaker 1: on who do like, No, I didn't, it's not what
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 2: That is a very good point again, Jin and Ethan,
Speaker 2: I have your I'll have your links on the bottom
Speaker 2: with the show notes. Jordan, did you want to promote
Speaker 2: yourself again and let anybody know where they can you
Speaker 2: know what you're about or what you want to push?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know. I mean, I'm not here to
Speaker 1: push anything other than just you know, be a good
Speaker 1: human however you want be a good human. But if
Speaker 1: you want to see what I'm up to and more
Speaker 1: on the medicine side and some of the podcasts and
Speaker 1: stuff that I'm doing that has nothing to do with
Speaker 1: this stuff, you can follow me on my socials, which
Speaker 1: is you know, under my name A jbarb Lac. You know,
Speaker 1: most social some more active than others, but you know
Speaker 1: they're out there. You can always contact me on there. Nick,
Speaker 1: I'll send you, I guess.
Speaker 2: You can send me a bunch of links and I'll
Speaker 2: put them in the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and stuff like that. I'll send them over.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Sure, you know I do online herbal consultations and if
Speaker 1: you're in Brooklyn, you know we have a clinic as
Speaker 1: well focused on pain. And you know, if you're into
Speaker 1: pelic floor awareness, this is public floor Awareness Month that
Speaker 1: we're going into and I'll be talking at length for
Speaker 1: the next month about public floor dysfunction. So if you're
Speaker 1: into that, follow me. Especially for men. It's on talked
Speaker 1: it's not talked about for men. Women know about it,
Speaker 1: but men don't You want to have better orgasms public floor? Yeah? No, men,
Speaker 1: age you know, you want to do all this cultivation,
Speaker 1: you know, to to be a you know, a champion
Speaker 1: you know at sex, you know, especially the Dallas practices.
Speaker 1: But uh, if your public floor is tight from lifting,
Speaker 1: you know, as we get older, public floors get tight
Speaker 1: or or yeah, out of disuse, and they had affects
Speaker 1: the ability to quality the orgasm for this. So hey,
Speaker 1: you know, if that's your thing, next month, I'll be
Speaker 1: talking about that a lot. So yeah, So that's the
Speaker 1: type of content I'm doing right now. Definitely, But I
Speaker 1: appreciate the offer of coming on here. Years ago when
Speaker 1: Nick offered I it wasn't for any of this. I
Speaker 1: was just like, let's come and shoot the ship of
Speaker 1: about occult stuff. But you know, I'm happy to kind
Speaker 1: of come on here and we have a thing to
Speaker 1: kind of at least anchor it into be a good
Speaker 1: human or is that like I feel like that's like
Speaker 1: Bill and Tad right land to each other or something
Speaker 1: like that. Right, and then that's it. But you know,
Speaker 1: if you want to follow my work, please do. I
Speaker 1: could always use more subscribers. I'm blowing up on TikTok.
Speaker 1: I've got fifty four people on there.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, all right, yeah my view.
Speaker 1: Count is like through the roof, but no one subscribes.
Speaker 2: That's well yeah, but yeah, I'll definitely get your links
Speaker 2: at the bottom. You can send me whatever you want. Uh, dude,
Speaker 2: thank you finally for coming on. Man. I had a blast.
Speaker 2: It was awesome. Definitely. I'm sure we could definitely have
Speaker 2: a chat about something else in the future. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I loved it, and Ethan and Jen it was awesome
Speaker 1: meeting you and talking about this stuff, and like my boss,
Speaker 1: it's just good to be around, you know, fill people
Speaker 1: where you could just talk to talk.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely would like to get you on with other
Speaker 2: fellow cult rejects. There was a pluthora of other people
Speaker 2: that exactly.
Speaker 1: One of us, one of us.
Speaker 2: Yes, all right, well, uh that's it again. Thank you Jin,
Speaker 2: and thank you Ethan, and thank you Jordan. I really
Speaker 2: appreciate it. And that is the end of another reculd
Speaker 2: rejects and until the next one, everybody be well later