WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:13.199 You're listening to an airwave media podcast, Monster House. 2 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:17.320 Presents Monster Talks, a proud member of the Airwave Media 3 00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:23.920 Podcast Network, home of such shows as the Daily Meditation podcast. 4 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:29.480 I Know what scares you and when things go wrong. 5 00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:32.799 If you'd like to advertise on the show, contact sales 6 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:39.479 at advertisedcast dot com. I find burial practices fascinating. If 7 00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:42.359 you haven't traveled the world or haven't read about them, 8 00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:44.759 you might be tempted to think that they're all about 9 00:00:44.840 --> 00:00:49.600 the same, but no. From vaults and mausoleums to urns, 10 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:53.119 to sky burials to tombs, the number of ways in 11 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:55.679 which humans have chosen to preserve the memory of the 12 00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:59.799 dead as a phnopoly of approaches, sometimes focused on remembering 13 00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:03.000 the individual is a departed loved one. In other times 14 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:05.920 and places, on preservation of the corpse is almost a 15 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:10.359 half deity to be supplicated. Some cultures have duties that 16 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:13.079 are due the dead, and some religions hold that the 17 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:15.799 dead are just empty containers and less important than the 18 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:19.599 souls that once inhabited them. But there is an almost 19 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:22.959 universal cultural fear around the places where we store the 20 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:26.359 remains of our dead. You are listening to Monster talk 21 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:30.159 the Science show about monsters, which I'm betting means you're 22 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:33.120 not one of the normal ones. I bet a good 23 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:36.319 chunk of our listeners, like your hosts, not only aren't 24 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:39.319 afraid of graveyards, but find them fascinating places to visit 25 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:44.120 by day and by night. Some cemeteries, like Highgate in 26 00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:49.319 London are pair loches in Paris are shaded cities of 27 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:52.319 the dead, with their own streets and a distinct atmosphere 28 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:55.959 of decaying beauty. These places have as many stories as 29 00:01:55.959 --> 00:02:00.159 they have bones. But sometimes in our travels we find small, 30 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:04.159 neglected cemeteries with rusted gates and tall weeds where flowers 31 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:07.920 might adorn a more frequently visited plot, and these places 32 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:12.520 also collect stories and Out on the high plains of Colorado, 33 00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:17.120 one such place as Silver Cliff Cemetery. Now they say 34 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:20.439 that people have been seeing ghost lights there since the 35 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:24.639 silver rush of the eighteen eighties. They say, even on 36 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:27.360 a cloudy night, you could see the blue flames hopping 37 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:30.919 around between the old monuments. It's too good of a 38 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:34.919 story to not have a look, right. Well, my co 39 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:37.840 host Karen and her husband Matt went to have a look. 40 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:41.000 You might be surprised to hear that, even though they're 41 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:46.680 very skeptical people, they saw them too. 42 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:50.280 It's actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen before. 43 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:57.800 A giant, hairy creature, part Ape, part Matt in Larkness, 44 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:00.240 a twenty four a mile long bottomless lake and the 45 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:03.759 Highlands of scott It's a creature known as the Luckness Monster. 46 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:27.080 Monster t. 47 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:32.319 Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters. I'm 48 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:35.560 Blake Smith and I'm Karen Stolsner. We're gonna hop right 49 00:03:35.639 --> 00:03:38.400 into our chat with Karen and regular guest Matt Baxter. 50 00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:40.560 But I wanted to front load by saying Karen has 51 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:42.560 a new book out. I've put a link to it 52 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:45.080 in the show notes. It's all about the history of 53 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:48.400 the word bitch, and looks to be the sort of 54 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:51.039 fun book that's both a fascinating history of a word, 55 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:53.759 a topic that's near and dear to word lovers, and 56 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:57.039 also an amusingly rude kind of title that makes for 57 00:03:57.080 --> 00:03:59.240 a fun read in public places. So check the show 58 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:02.560 notes for a linked to Bitch, and also to a 59 00:04:02.599 --> 00:04:05.400 book where some of Tonight's research is explain in detail. 60 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:08.000 One of my favorite books Karen's written, and that is 61 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:16.639 haunting America. I think you'll enjoy both of those. Monstertle, Hey, Matt, Hey, Karen, 62 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:19.839 Welcome back to Monster Talk. Is another week, another exciting 63 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:23.439 talk about strange and paranormal and paranormal adjacent, monster adjacent 64 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:27.879 and monsters. Hey, I was looking for you for what 65 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:30.720 we've been talking about this week, and I realized somehow, 66 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:32.519 and I don't know how we did this. We seem 67 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:35.959 to have talked about this investigation you guys did on 68 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:39.000 this cemetery several times on YouTube, but I don't think 69 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:43.759 we've actually done like a thorough episode about your investigation. 70 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:46.079 And this is work that you did which showed up 71 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:49.600 been haunting America and it's really interesting. It has weird 72 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:53.759 parallels to one of my first cases I ever did 73 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:58.759 with other people and skepticism and so like, this is great. 74 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:04.560 So let's talk about the Silver Cliff Cemetery in your investigation, 75 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:08.279 and I hope if you don't mind, could we start 76 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:12.120 out with sort of talking about why it's spooky, what's 77 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:14.439 the legend, like, what is this, where is it and 78 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:15.240 what's it all about. 79 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:19.240 There's a lot to unpack here and this is a story. 80 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:22.399 It's really one of those ones that keeps coming up 81 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:25.160 again and again. Just when you think, Okay, well we 82 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:28.399 have the answer to this, we've debunked this, we've got 83 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:32.480 the solution to the claims, it just seems to resurface, 84 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:37.560 and it's almost as though that information, the truth is 85 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:44.879 now there. So Silvercliff Cemetery. So we're in Colorado and 86 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:50.920 Matt and I have continued to hear about this little cemetery. 87 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:54.199 It's really out in the middle of nowhere, I guess 88 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:57.480 it's where is it, Matt? Probably about three hours drive 89 00:05:57.519 --> 00:05:58.279 from Denver. 90 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:00.519 Yeah, approximately, I would say. 91 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:06.759 So. It's right next to this town called Westcliffe, and 92 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:12.040 it's purported to have the countries most haunted, if not 93 00:06:12.199 --> 00:06:16.319 the world's most haunted cemetery. So when I think about cemeteries, 94 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:20.040 I tend to think about those big ones like maybe 95 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:25.519 Saint Louis Cemetery in New Orleans, the one that Marie 96 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:29.959 Leveaux would frequent I think about places like Resurrection Cemetery 97 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:34.000 in Chicago as well, and a Hollywood Cemetery in LA 98 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:37.920 with the ghosts of celebrities and things like that. So 99 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:41.839 I was a little mystified as to why this place 100 00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:47.040 had this reputation for being so haunted, and so Matt 101 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:50.639 and I became very interested in this topic and really 102 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:54.759 did an investigation that took quite some time. This goes 103 00:06:54.839 --> 00:07:00.720 back ten eleven years now, and we went to this 104 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:04.439 place and we went in different climates, different seasons as well, 105 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:06.800 so that we could really try to figure out what 106 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:12.959 was going on there. And ultimately the answer, the solution 107 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:15.560 was right in front of us. But it was an 108 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:18.839 interesting tale just to get to that point. So, Matt, 109 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:22.279 do you want to begin by telling everyone a little 110 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:25.199 bit a bit about the stories that have taken place 111 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:27.480 surreting cemetery. 112 00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:31.839 Well, like Karen said, it's near a town called Westcliffe, 113 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:36.360 which actually is a sister town to a town called Silvercliff. 114 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:39.560 They're right next to each other, they're practically the same town. 115 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:42.639 But the reason one is called Silvercliff is because there 116 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:47.959 was an amazing silver mining rush there back in the 117 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:55.480 late eighteen hundreds and that's when supposedly the legend started, 118 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:58.439 when people started getting buried in the cemetery around that 119 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:02.040 time in the eighteen eighties, that there were these strange 120 00:08:02.199 --> 00:08:05.920 sort of floating blue lights and they thought that they 121 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:09.279 were like lanterns, you know, from inside the mines that 122 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:14.560 someone was carrying, but it became very creepy, and it's like, 123 00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:16.920 you know, you you've kind of got these these old 124 00:08:17.079 --> 00:08:23.120 tales of this this, these are these lights out out 125 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:28.639 in the cemetery. And then you know, we here in 126 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:33.080 this day and age, we hear that National Geographic actually 127 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:38.039 went out and did an investigation out there and. 128 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:39.600 They saw them. 129 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:42.519 They in their investigation, they saw the lights. They proved 130 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:45.159 that they were there, and you know it's. 131 00:08:44.919 --> 00:08:47.039 In an. 132 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:52.039 Issue of National Geographic August nineteen sixty nine. So how 133 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:54.759 can you argue with that? I mean, that's some that's 134 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:57.519 a great, great place to start, you know with with oh, 135 00:08:57.639 --> 00:09:05.440 this must be real. Just happens to turn out that, 136 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:07.879 you know, it wasn't an investigation. 137 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.360 The stories that are coming out of the cemetery really 138 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:18.679 change over the years. So, as Matt said, originally you've 139 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:21.720 got the idea of this a bright light, maybe a 140 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:26.120 blue light typically or a white light, through to multi 141 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:30.240 colored lights, red lights and green lights, and lights that 142 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:34.279 bounce around the cemetery. A lot of stories seem to 143 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:38.960 resemble tales of will of the wisps and spoop lights. 144 00:09:39.039 --> 00:09:42.039 So you really have a lot of folklore that's intersecting 145 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:46.039 with this story and feeding into it, and as Matt said, 146 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:51.080 claims that maybe these lights came from miners, or there 147 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.519 was a young girl who was buried in the cemetery 148 00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:57.720 and the lights are coming from her somehow. So all 149 00:09:57.759 --> 00:10:04.039 of these different stories, but miners, miners, both both kind 150 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:10.679 and ultimately you were told, well, this has been researched, 151 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:13.919 This has been investigated by none other than National Geographics. 152 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:17.600 So obviously this is factual. This is true. Something strange 153 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:21.360 is going on here. So what's interesting is that the 154 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:25.159 New York Times had actually covered the case a few 155 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:28.480 years before National Geographic. People do talk about that as well. 156 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:30.600 There's just a little article and I've got a clipping 157 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:34.080 that I'll read out from the New York Times. The 158 00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:36.960 legends say that the dancing lights were first seen in 159 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:39.759 the pre dawn hours of a bitter winter day in 160 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:43.320 eighteen eighty A small group of miners were returning to 161 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:47.000 Silver Cliff after a riproaring party in the nearby mining 162 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:50.519 town of Rosita. They were still a bit unsteady of 163 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:53.639 foot after the festivities and were laughing as they recalled 164 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:57.399 the raucous highlights of the dance hall social Their route 165 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:00.720 back to Silvercliff, took them past the old cemetery, and here, 166 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:03.600 as they passed the place, one of the miners stopped, 167 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:06.519 grasped the arm of a companion and pointed into the 168 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:10.639 burial ground. They're flickering on the carved surface for freshly 169 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:14.480 raised tombstone was a blue flame. The miners stared with 170 00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:17.879 fascination for a while, a very short while, and with 171 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:23.559 less stagger and more speed, headed quickly for nearby Silver Cliff. So, yeah, 172 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:26.360 we have that story, and then that's followed by the 173 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:29.039 story of National Geographics. So you have this idea of 174 00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:32.440 it being I don't know, maybe a long form piece 175 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.399 or a research piece, and the National Geographic don't really 176 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:41.120 do those kinds of scholarly investigations. But the information on 177 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:45.240 silver Cliff is a lot shorter than we're led to believe, 178 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:48.399 and it's just this little PostScript. Really, So do you. 179 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:51.559 Remember when we were talking about the most haunted cities 180 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:54.360 and there was one that was listed in the Guinness 181 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:57.240 Booker World Records and we looked and it was just 182 00:11:57.320 --> 00:11:59.919 like a little like a little paragraph blurb thing was 183 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:03.080 it was completely not well this is yeah, yeah, two 184 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:06.200 paragraph but still I just reminded me. 185 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:10.919 Hardly some kind of investigation or academic paper or anything 186 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:13.879 like that. Just a footnote really, in an article called 187 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:18.159 Colorado the Rockies Pot of Gold by Edward Lyneham in 188 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:20.879 the August nineteen sixty nine. As Matt said, so I'll 189 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:26.240 read the little section because it's not that long. Eerie 190 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:31.279 lights away to explanation. I recall quite vividly the last 191 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.440 such town I visited before leaving Colorado, a place called 192 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:37.080 Silver Cliff in the Wet Mountain valley west of Pueblo. 193 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.600 Today it counts about one hundred and ten year round residents, 194 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:44.159 where once five thousand lived. Be sure to get thereafter dark. 195 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:46.960 A fellow camper from Kansas had told me, and drive 196 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:50.440 out to the old cemetery, you'll see something mighty strange. 197 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:54.000 We'd bounced about a mile out of Silver Cliff across 198 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:57.720 Pitch Black Prairie when Bill Klein, who runs the local campground, 199 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:00.240 told me to pull up and switch my headlights off. 200 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.519 Do you believe it? I asked him about the lights 201 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:06.200 in the graveyard. I've seen plenty of them. This is 202 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:09.679 a good night for them. Overcast, no mood. We climbed 203 00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:12.279 out beside the old burying ground, and for long minutes 204 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:16.759 I strained to see something anything. Slowly vague outlines of 205 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:21.759 grave markers emerged in ragged rose. There. Bill's voice was quiet, 206 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:25.399 almost a whisper, And over there I saw them, too, 207 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:30.600 dim round spots of blue white light glowed ethereally among 208 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:33.519 the graves. I found another and stepped forward for a 209 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:37.080 better look. They vanished. For fifteen minutes, we walked about 210 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:39.679 the place, pursuing one will of the wisp, then another. 211 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.720 I aimed my flashlight at one eerie glow and switched 212 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:47.200 it on. It revealed only a tombstone. Again, that's not 213 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:50.799 any kind of in depth investigation. It's just a footnote 214 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:55.639 and really just recounting the folklore. And so I think 215 00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:57.240 that it kind of gives us a hint at what's 216 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:00.120 going on as well. They're talking about these lights in 217 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:02.799 the cemetery, and what happens right at the end the 218 00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:06.759 fellow aims is flashlight at one of these glows, and 219 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:10.879 there's a tombstone. So I think if we want to 220 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:14.600 talk about spoilers, that really spoils what's going on when. 221 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:17.480 Is quite a spoiler and anchored right there at such 222 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:20.200 an early date. Yeah, Yeah, exactly it is, and. 223 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:23.279 Even though they say eerie lights a weight explanation. So 224 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:27.639 then we go back to a skeptical inquirer piece and 225 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.399 I don't have it handy, but I think it goes 226 00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:34.919 back to maybe the nineteen eighties or nineteen nineties, and 227 00:14:35.320 --> 00:14:38.960 the fellow who writes the article does come up with 228 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:42.519 the solution for what's going on here, that it's reflections 229 00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:50.559 of lights on tombstones. But again, the source of what's 230 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:54.559 going on is right in front of us. Even though 231 00:14:55.240 --> 00:14:57.399 so many articles have come out, no one's been able 232 00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:01.559 to figure out what exactly was going on on. Well, 233 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:03.919 they figured out what's going on, but they haven't found 234 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:08.080 out that the source tells us, you know, what was 235 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:11.399 really happening. But you've got other scientific theories out there too, Matt. 236 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.039 Do you want to talk a little bit to some of. 237 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:14.559 Those, like. 238 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:18.519 Fireflies and phosphorescence. 239 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:22.879 Yeah, I mean there's lots of different theories and and 240 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:27.840 and you know scientific things that could be happening, And 241 00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:29.519 there's there's lots of reasons that. 242 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:32.480 You could see something. 243 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:39.879 Phosphorescent out there, such as decaying wood sometimes can become fastphorescent. 244 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:41.080 From all crosses. 245 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:46.039 Fox fire, and so you know, there's lots of different possibilities, 246 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:49.480 none of them I think would be consistent. 247 00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:52.399 Well, there you go. But maybe it doesn't need. 248 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:55.320 To be right. Maybe maybe it doesn't. 249 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:57.799 You only need one person, one thing at one time 250 00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:00.159 for it to be all. 251 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:03.480 Even with the explanation that we have though, it could 252 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:07.600 truly be different people seeing different things. So even though 253 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:11.840 we know what happened, it's possible that at other times, 254 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:15.919 other people saw different things. That's a really good point. 255 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:17.039 Absolutely, you know. 256 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:19.480 And the thing is, you know, Karen and I we 257 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:23.799 did go out there three different times and just to 258 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:28.080 try to really figure out what people were seeing. 259 00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:32.000 Because we're not well, we're not well as much time 260 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:32.320 to it. 261 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:33.080 Yeah. Yeah. 262 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:35.519 One time was in the dead of winter and it was. 263 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:40.879 Very cold and knowing and I see and yeah, miserable. 264 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:43.440 Yeah, yeah, it really was. 265 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:45.759 We camped out to see the lights. 266 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:48.720 Yeah, and we saw them. 267 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:51.159 Did you did you sleep in the cemetery or outside 268 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:55.559 the cemetery? We didn't sleep, Oh, I see, Well that's hot. 269 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:56.000 Anyway. 270 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:56.879 The point is. 271 00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:04.559 It was really interesting though, because we were really watching 272 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:10.880 for any possibility, and that particular night it wasn't overcast, 273 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:12.559 it was just freezing. 274 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:14.920 We did see the lights. 275 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:17.400 We went up there in the summertime and we did 276 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:20.680 catch some overcast, you know, so we couldn't blame the 277 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:26.599 stars reflecting off of the headstones and that we still 278 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:27.480 could see them. 279 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:31.599 There's another theory too that we haven't touched upon. That 280 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:36.359 some people will say it's something called prisoner's cinema. So 281 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:42.960 people are in solitary confinement or maybe in a cave 282 00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:43.839 or something like that. 283 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:45.880 You're in a very pre deprivation situation. 284 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:50.759 Yeah, yes, it is yet and almost akin to sneezing 285 00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:54.799 and when you see stars and bright lights. But people 286 00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:58.599 certainly go out to Silver Cliff to this day trying 287 00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:01.519 to see something, and at a night where there are 288 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:05.279 very few stars or there's no light, you could very 289 00:18:05.319 --> 00:18:08.640 easily pull yourself into thinking that you're seeing something. 290 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:12.400 Well, the key words there is trying to see something. 291 00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:16.599 So it is pretty easy to see something out there 292 00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:21.559 if you're really trying, And the sensory deprivation aspect of 293 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:25.799 it is can it happen very easily. The whole thing 294 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:29.400 about it is when you're having a sensory deprivation sort 295 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:32.759 of experience and you're out there in the dark, there's 296 00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:35.359 a certain look to it, and you can kind of 297 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:38.400 tell that, oh, this is not real. This is you know, 298 00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:40.960 my eyes are playing with me because I'm in the dark. 299 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:46.640 But you know, if you're really needing to kind of, 300 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:48.799 you know, play into your own bias, then you can 301 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:50.240 ignore those obvious things. 302 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:53.160 But that's still not it. 303 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:56.039 That's still not what was causing the lights that we 304 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:56.559 were seeing. 305 00:18:58.119 --> 00:18:59.400 We were seeing, you. 306 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:05.680 Know what those old miners saw, I'm sure, which is 307 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:09.839 another interesting thing because we can't find any mention of 308 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:18.160 any of these stories about these old miners before this 309 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:21.759 little bit of information we found in a history museum 310 00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:24.720 down in the basement in the microfish area. 311 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.319 And yeah, that was the interesting thing that you have 312 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:32.960 these reports that allegedly go back to the eighteen eighties. 313 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:36.759 So we kept hearing about these periods of time that 314 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:40.480 we're being mentioned. We'd hear about the eighteen eighties, and 315 00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:43.200 then we'd read a lot about the nineteen twenties, so 316 00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:47.519 either miners in the eighteen eighties or miners or party 317 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:50.599 goers in the nineteen twenties. But there were also a 318 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:54.079 number of specific references too that we'll talk about nineteen 319 00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:58.000 fifty six. So it was kind of interesting that you 320 00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:02.279 have these other vague dates eighteen eighties, nineteen twenties, and 321 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:07.039 then suddenly people talking about maybe April nineteen fifty six 322 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:10.319 or around that timeframe, and that just seems so specific 323 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:13.200 that we thought, well, we should really look into this, 324 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:17.000 maybe there's something to be found here. So we went 325 00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:20.240 to History Colorado. I guess what would you call it? 326 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:23.720 Matter kind of archives place and a museum. 327 00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:26.759 It's a museum, and then you know, of course the 328 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:29.319 basement is where they have all these things. 329 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:29.759 Archive. 330 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:37.119 We went there on speaking of cold and snow, it 331 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:39.640 was just a very icy, snowy day. I think a 332 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:43.400 blizzard was taking It was a blizzard, yes, And so 333 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:46.680 we went down there early in the morning and asked 334 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:51.599 to use the microfish and went looking for There had 335 00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:54.279 been a number of newspapers in the area around that time, 336 00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:59.960 and some of them have just gone bust and over time, 337 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:06.039 but one that fit the bill for being published in 338 00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:08.680 that area and it would have been relevant to that time, 339 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:13.240 was a newspaper called the Wet Mountain Tribune. So we 340 00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:17.319 brought up copies of that for nineteen fifty six and 341 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:19.599 for a nineteen fifty five I think fifty six to 342 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.079 fifty seven, so we could look around that whole time frame, 343 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:27.000 and it was so interesting to just go through these 344 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:29.319 old newspapers and like, I know, you love this kind 345 00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:29.559 of thing. 346 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:31.519 All I was thinking was I would love to go 347 00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:33.839 on a micro fishing trip for the weekend. 348 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:39.359 That it was so much fun. I have to say 349 00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:43.359 I was totally role playing when I you know, I'm there, 350 00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:45.839 you know, being the detective, you know, in this very 351 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:50.240 special episode of you know, of an old seventies, you know, 352 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:53.079 police show, and I was just having a great time. 353 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:57.359 And I looked over at Karen and the expression on 354 00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:02.839 her face shocked me because as she clearly found. 355 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:07.519 It, Yeah, what a great sailing that is. 356 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:11.079 Though, Oh really, yeah, we're going through all these old 357 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:14.440 trite stories about oh, mister and missus Smith drove through 358 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:19.319 the area and this was their second visit, and just 359 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:23.359 like these really kind of simple, basic stories about locals 360 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:26.160 and visitors to the town, and just the things that 361 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:29.720 were interesting at that point seemed quite dull in comparison 362 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:34.519 to today. But yeah, we came across the article, so 363 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:38.759 it was dated April thirteenth, nineteen fifty six, and I'm hoping, Matt, 364 00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:43.880 you can read the snippets of this story. It's called 365 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:47.799 Silver Cliffs Cemetery ghosts carrying their own lights at night, 366 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:50.079 and that headlines everything away. 367 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:53.039 I love it is love the headline so clickbait. I 368 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:53.759 can't believe that. 369 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:56.440 It's nineteen fifty six. 370 00:22:56.759 --> 00:22:57.400 Yes, it was a. 371 00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:01.599 Very very early version of clickbait. But yeah, because one 372 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:04.400 of the other headlines right next to it is fire 373 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.839 Threaten's local ranch residents. So I will do my best 374 00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:10.359 to read this without stumbling too much because the print 375 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:11.599 is small. 376 00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:14.000 But I'll do my best. 377 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:20.440 Curious clustertes flock to burial ground a view unusual reflections. 378 00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:24.119 Traffic to the Silver Cliff Cemetery has increased at least 379 00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:26.880 one thousand percent during the past week, but there is 380 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:30.200 no cause for alarm, or is there at least the 381 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:32.480 traffic increases. 382 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:33.240 Not due to an increase in. 383 00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:35.720 The local death rate, although some of those who have 384 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:40.440 made the trip to the cemetery have expressed themselves as 385 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:44.000 scared to death. It seems that one evening last week, 386 00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:46.960 some of the younger set of the community were taking 387 00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:50.920 a nocturnal ride which carried them past the cemetery. As 388 00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:53.759 they passed the cemetery, screams of terror came from the 389 00:23:53.799 --> 00:23:57.519 feminine occupants of the car as they beheld numerous eerie 390 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:03.279 lights dancing about among the tes. The following day, tales 391 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:06.359 of the ghostly lights were spreading rapidly through the community, 392 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:11.720 and numerous were the curious ones who trekked to the cemetery. 393 00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:15.920 During the nights that followed. There were those who trembled 394 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.720 with the terror as they saw the bluish lights twinkling 395 00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:21.599 here and there in the burial ground, And many strong 396 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:25.200 men refused to leave the sanctuary of their cars, and 397 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:29.599 many frightened women would take but one look, I'm going 398 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:32.720 to skip down here a little bit so we can 399 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:36.480 get to the spoilers. Theories as to the reason for 400 00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:38.599 the lights. They're still there if you want to see them, 401 00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:43.480