1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:01,800 Speaker 1: ESPN the ban app for free. 2 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 2: Today you're listening to Cougar Sports on ko v O 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,599 probo k U d d H D two one O 4 00:00:07,719 --> 00:00:12,119 three nine at ninety eight three ESPN The band. It's 5 00:00:12,199 --> 00:00:15,400 time to celebrate the previous team sport known to man, 6 00:00:15,679 --> 00:00:18,960 where modern day gladiators collide for all the glory on 7 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,879 the Gridie, let's talk some college football lot Cougar Sports 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:24,239 with Ben Crittle. 9 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:26,559 Speaker 1: And welcome back to Peter Sports here one of three 10 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,440 nine ninety eighty three ESPN. A fan Ronald the three 11 00:00:29,519 --> 00:00:31,559 man Weaver here, Brett always bringing the hammer by my 12 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,759 side doing double duty today. Help has been critical is out. 13 00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:39,520 He'll be back tomorrow producing and hosting. You know, sometimes 14 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:41,719 you got to step up to the plate and do 15 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,159 both things. So you know, sometimes you have to get 16 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,799 towards the double team, you know, and you you have 17 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:48,240 to trap, you have to steal the ball, you have 18 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,200 to do all of it. But that's a skill sets 19 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,200 that you bring here, Brett. Appreciate Brett showing up and 20 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,320 showing out forgot to mention Vic Cram on the data 21 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,159 aggregation as well. Appreciate Vick. I've had a great show. 22 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,280 Let's farget into the third hour. Here, it's a beautiful 23 00:00:59,359 --> 00:01:02,880 day here in Utah. The wind is blowing out. It 24 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:04,799 was a beautiful day in Chicago. To the guy on 25 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:06,959 the line, he would actually be upset with me. He'd 26 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:08,879 probably would be upset that I went back to Chicago 27 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,040 and then at least let him know and say hi, 28 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,079 I apologize for that. It was a quick trip, but 29 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,239 I will be back in September, so I'll definitely make 30 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,040 some time to see him. Then this college football segment, 31 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,359 we're gonna discuss some college basketball too. Gotta discuss Miami Ohio, 32 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,599 b Yu, Duck and Smoke. Who's ducking Smoke? No one 33 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,680 wants to play in Miami Ohio and these you know, 34 00:01:26,879 --> 00:01:30,120 these mid majors all this conversation. I like guys that 35 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,560 have receipts, and this guy has receipts. This college football 36 00:01:33,599 --> 00:01:35,120 segment going to be brought to you by Dental Pros 37 00:01:35,159 --> 00:01:37,040 of Utah dot Com. I know a lot of you 38 00:01:37,079 --> 00:01:39,120 are looking for a new dentist, and that's why you 39 00:01:39,159 --> 00:01:41,079 have to give Dental Pros a try. They have the 40 00:01:41,799 --> 00:01:44,480 biomagmatic dentistry that can rebuild your teeth layered by layers. 41 00:01:44,519 --> 00:01:46,519 You don't have to settle for fake teeth in life. 42 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,719 No one wants fake teeth. Stop going to the local 43 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,480 Ward Mormon than just you're not getting the tied in 44 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,239 discount even if you pay eleven percent like myself, go 45 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,719 to Dental prosdnal proso Utah dot com without further dud. 46 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,719 Let's get out to the ESPN the Fan hotline and 47 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,920 welcome in Matt Brown of Extra Points and b. 48 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,079 Speaker 3: How are we doing today, Matt Hey, it's great to 49 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:04,959 be here. I'm sorry i missed you too, but I've 50 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,799 been I've been laid up with the coldies past couple 51 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,840 of days. Then okay, we'll have to get some Uh, 52 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:10,639 we'll have to get some ginger ales. Next time you're 53 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,199 in town in September. 54 00:02:12,439 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: Definitely gotta gotta have you meet the little one and 55 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,120 gotta gotta take her to all of the Italian beef 56 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,400 in Chicago dog spots. Uh, for sure, definitely once I 57 00:02:20,479 --> 00:02:22,199 once I get back home again. I love Chicago. 58 00:02:22,879 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's you know, it's it's not for everybody, 59 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,439 but it's for us. It is just I lived, I 60 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,520 lived all over the country and there's some beautiful things everywhere, 61 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,080 but this really is my favorite place. 62 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: Look, I'll ask Brett because he's on the line as well. 63 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,080 Bret's lived in Georgia and Pennsylvania. Bread, I'm pretty sure 64 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,719 you could do the Chicago too, or no. 65 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 4: I've never I've never actually been to Chicago. 66 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 5: But I'll tell you the cities that I love and 67 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,520 then maybe you guys can infer whether or not I 68 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:45,280 would like Chicago. 69 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 4: I assume that I will. 70 00:02:46,319 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 5: It seems like, I mean, every time I see shots 71 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:49,759 of it, when am I I'm watching a couple of 72 00:02:49,759 --> 00:02:52,280 shows that take place in Chicago right now. Obviously, I 73 00:02:52,319 --> 00:02:55,120 love Atlanta, I love DC, I love New York City, 74 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,719 and I love the East. I'm I'm an East Coast guy, 75 00:02:57,759 --> 00:02:59,759 and I know, I know Chicago is not on the 76 00:03:00,319 --> 00:03:02,199 but like it's it's closer to the East than it 77 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,360 is to the West. So I feel like I would 78 00:03:04,439 --> 00:03:08,240 like Chicago. Plus, I've watched I'm watching The Bear. That 79 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:09,599 one is a big Chicago show. 80 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: Chicago show. 81 00:03:10,879 --> 00:03:11,319 Speaker 4: I need. 82 00:03:11,439 --> 00:03:14,199 Speaker 5: I need the beef, dude, I need an Italian beef sandwich. 83 00:03:14,199 --> 00:03:16,560 So I I need to get out to Chicago. I 84 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,479 have not been out there yet, but it is it 85 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:19,680 is on the list for sure. 86 00:03:20,159 --> 00:03:20,879 Speaker 1: You definitely. 87 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 3: I welcome everybody who can listen to this show to 88 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:30,199 come visit. Do you know the the epitome of terrific 89 00:03:30,479 --> 00:03:35,479 in case meats at Jay Dogs. We have a place 90 00:03:35,479 --> 00:03:37,759 that's as good as Jay Dogs every eight blocks here 91 00:03:37,759 --> 00:03:39,840 and it's gonna be run by a ninety year old 92 00:03:39,879 --> 00:03:41,560 Polish person who's going to be delicious. 93 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 4: Let's go. 94 00:03:42,719 --> 00:03:44,719 Speaker 3: Just just just don't come in February. 95 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, don't, don't do that. Don't That's why I came 96 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,520 in March, Matt, you know, don't come at least I 97 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,759 got some seun sign and it wasn't a too bumpy 98 00:03:51,759 --> 00:03:55,039 on my way out, Matt. Just get caught before we 99 00:03:55,039 --> 00:03:57,439 get into the Minutia. Just give us update. How is 100 00:03:57,479 --> 00:04:00,599 the family doing any trips lined up for the summertime? 101 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,479 Speaker 3: No, you know it's actually I'm going to be in 102 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,479 your neck of the woods this summer because you know, 103 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,560 I'm married into a Utah family, and as Utah families do, 104 00:04:11,599 --> 00:04:14,280 they have family reunions. So think I'm going to this 105 00:04:14,479 --> 00:04:15,159 Is it bear Lake? 106 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:16,639 Speaker 1: Great bear Lake? 107 00:04:18,079 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 3: Yes? So yeah, I'll come in and maybe maybe maybe 108 00:04:22,319 --> 00:04:24,560 help with some hosting duties when I come in late 109 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,560 later in June and then we're trying to figure out, 110 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:28,920 all right, where do you want to do? Where do 111 00:04:28,959 --> 00:04:33,000 we want to do traveling for campus visits and and 112 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,000 and for reporting in April and uh in May. I've 113 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,600 tried to stay off the road as much as I 114 00:04:37,639 --> 00:04:40,319 could for February and March after being really busy for 115 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,079 a while. But we'll uh partly do a couple of 116 00:04:43,079 --> 00:04:45,680 college baseball and college softball stories and get get find 117 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,160 an excuse for me to go someplace warm for a 118 00:04:48,199 --> 00:04:49,959 little bit and write it off for tax purposes. 119 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: So you know, Southern myth hitting me up, a Southern 120 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,319 miss hit them up. You heard it for sure. Let's 121 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,240 get right into it. Let's start with the basketball, and 122 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,079 then we can in with some football discussion if we 123 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,680 have time. If you are a man of receipts. Miami 124 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,120 Ohio that's been the biggest topic everything that I've seen. Right, 125 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,639 No one wants to schedule to play the Miami Ohios. 126 00:05:07,639 --> 00:05:09,360 The high points and then they beat him in the tournament, 127 00:05:09,519 --> 00:05:11,279 and then you got coaches sounding off. And I can't 128 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,519 fault these coaches right now. I understand if they were 129 00:05:13,519 --> 00:05:15,279 playing in the Big Twelve Conference and maybe they get 130 00:05:15,319 --> 00:05:18,040 boat steam, but no one wants to play these guys 131 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,519 and they need it for their resume, but they're getting 132 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,480 left out. And I was very impressed with the work 133 00:05:23,519 --> 00:05:25,519 that you did. Miami of Ohio contact to like I 134 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,920 think with twelve people, and no one got back to them, 135 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,399 maybe even BYU. What will give us the update on 136 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:32,759 how that went down. 137 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,879 Speaker 3: Yeah. So the way that it just works right is 138 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,319 that if you're trying, if you're an assistant coach, if 139 00:05:38,319 --> 00:05:41,959 you're a dobo an operations guy for a basketball team, 140 00:05:41,959 --> 00:05:43,839 you're usually the one that's doing the leg work to 141 00:05:43,879 --> 00:05:46,519 build a schedule rather than like the athletic director or 142 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,399 sometimes the head coach. And you can do this from 143 00:05:49,639 --> 00:05:51,920 hitting up your buddies from places where you used to coach. 144 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,000 There's a lot of these games getting set up because 145 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,079 people have personal relations of relationships. There's there's a website 146 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,120 called winad that many big time programs used and they'll post, hey, 147 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,319 I need to buy game on this date. You know 148 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,240 low major's, mid majors con hit me up. But beyond that, 149 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,680 you know people will send just good fashion emails and 150 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,000 good old fashion emails. At public institutions like Miami are 151 00:06:13,079 --> 00:06:16,000 subject to open records requests. So I reached out to 152 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,439 the I file all the paperwork and sending a request 153 00:06:18,439 --> 00:06:20,800 to go get all the schools that Miami had tried 154 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,360 to schedule over like a just just a four month window. 155 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,480 So that means it doesn't have anybody that they hit 156 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,000 up on win AD, anybody that hit up over the phone, 157 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:29,959 anybody that they hit up at you know, a at 158 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,800 a conference or anything. And we came back with that 159 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,560 I want to say nineteen schools BYU was one of those. 160 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,240 So it was Utah BYU if I remember correctly, because 161 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:40,959 I don't have it up in front of my my 162 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,680 monitor right now, but if I remember correctly, they said like, hey, 163 00:06:44,439 --> 00:06:47,759 we don't have a date open. At that point, Miami 164 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,000 was playing a road game at the beginning of the 165 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,600 season at air Force, and they wanted to play a 166 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,439 major conference Western team, you know, a couple of days 167 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,519 before after, you know, because if they're gonna fly out 168 00:06:58,519 --> 00:07:00,560 West anyway, they want to get bought, get the eighty 169 00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:02,720 ninety thousand dollars, you know, come back. So they hit 170 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,920 up a bunch of Western teams and BYU just it 171 00:07:04,959 --> 00:07:08,399 wasn't you're too good, it was we already have some 172 00:07:08,439 --> 00:07:10,920 of these games scheduled. We're not available on the dates 173 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:12,839 that you need us. But there were certainly teams that said, 174 00:07:12,839 --> 00:07:15,079 we want to play, you're too good. We'd rather go 175 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,560 play somebody who's in the RPI two fifty to seventy 176 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,000 five three hundred, And like you kind of said before 177 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:22,959 you brought me on, I don't fault the coaches for that, 178 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,839 because there's not really a net, you know, any any 179 00:07:26,879 --> 00:07:31,399 team benefit from beating somebody who's in the RPI one 180 00:07:31,519 --> 00:07:33,800 twenty one thirty one fifty, like a really good mid 181 00:07:33,839 --> 00:07:36,560 major team, especially if you're in league like the Big Twelve, 182 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,439 where you're going to have so many really difficult games 183 00:07:39,439 --> 00:07:41,879 over the course of the entire season, and until you 184 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,399 change or make changes to the metric that determines who 185 00:07:45,439 --> 00:07:48,399 gets in the tournament who doesn't everybody, Like if I'm BYU, 186 00:07:48,959 --> 00:07:51,560 I think the incentives pretty clear, right. You should schedule 187 00:07:52,199 --> 00:07:55,600 you know, two or three big games, probably at neutral sites, 188 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,680 and then you should make every single home game as 189 00:07:58,759 --> 00:08:01,240 as crappy as possible because you're going to have to 190 00:08:01,279 --> 00:08:06,040 play sixteen quad one games during conference seasons. That's kind 191 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,000 of where the incentives are set up right now. 192 00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:11,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's definitely where the incentives are set up. And 193 00:08:14,079 --> 00:08:15,720 do you see this changing at all in the next 194 00:08:15,759 --> 00:08:18,720 you know, you know, three four years. I don't think 195 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,000 you can say two. But this is an issue. I 196 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,600 think UVU was having the same issue. You know, the 197 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,000 school down the road from YU and those who do 198 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,240 the morning should like, you can't get anybody to schedule us, 199 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,199 and I mean them going to the Big West might help, 200 00:08:31,399 --> 00:08:33,399 I think will help a little bit. But this is 201 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,919 a problem in college athletics, with basketball specifically, obviously football 202 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:39,080 two degree as well. But does this change in the 203 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:40,080 next five years. 204 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:44,919 Speaker 3: I think it's a problem in almost every sports. It's 205 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,360 more visible in basketball because you have to play more 206 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,639 of these games and we have a little bit better 207 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,440 data about who's good and who isn't and and what 208 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,240 the guarantees are. But certainly it's an issue for UVU, 209 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,240 it's an issue for Weber, it's an issue for Grand Canyon, 210 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:00,720 It's an issue for schools in the MAC or on 211 00:09:00,759 --> 00:09:03,399 the horizon. It's a little bit different in the East, 212 00:09:03,639 --> 00:09:08,000 where you can potentially bust to forty different institutions. You 213 00:09:08,039 --> 00:09:09,840 can't really do that in the inter Mountain West or 214 00:09:09,919 --> 00:09:11,399 in a lot of the Western States, and I don't 215 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,480 think there is an obvious solution. The NET was created 216 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,639 in part to playcate the Power four conferences or the 217 00:09:19,639 --> 00:09:21,120 F four plus the Big East, if you want to 218 00:09:21,159 --> 00:09:24,200 throw them in here for basketball purposes. And when you're 219 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,639 in a political environment where the Big Ten in the 220 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,879 SEC are kind of throwing tempartensions about wanting even more 221 00:09:29,919 --> 00:09:33,200 access to championships, even more power, even more money. The 222 00:09:33,279 --> 00:09:35,519 last thing that's going to get through the NCAA Basketball 223 00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:37,600 Committee is going to be changes to some of these 224 00:09:37,639 --> 00:09:40,399 metrics that might help schools in the A ten or 225 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:45,080 the Missouri Valley. I would love to interview more quants 226 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,960 and coaches and scheduling consultants and folks that think they 227 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,799 have a formula to build a better mouse trap that 228 00:09:52,919 --> 00:09:58,840 is more Ken Pomroy's I think area of expertise than mine. 229 00:09:58,879 --> 00:10:00,840 But I from what I know right now, I don't 230 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,519 think there's an easy way to do it unless you 231 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,960 force people to And I can't imagine at any conference 232 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,000 commissioner or the NCUBLE itself forcing anybody to do it. 233 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 5: Matt, I want to talk about the three most dangerous 234 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:14,440 letters in all of sports. 235 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,399 Speaker 4: Nil So I saw you at an interesting tweet I 236 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:20,120 and correct me if I'm wrong. 237 00:10:20,159 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 5: I think it was a last week or the week 238 00:10:21,759 --> 00:10:24,120 before where you would put out like the top ten 239 00:10:24,159 --> 00:10:25,960 schools per operating costs? 240 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 4: Does that sound right? 241 00:10:26,919 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 3: Yeah? Oh yeah, yeah, I did this. I did that. 242 00:10:29,399 --> 00:10:31,960 I ranked all like two hundred and twenty of them, right. 243 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 5: And I thought that a couple of publications or a 244 00:10:35,039 --> 00:10:37,720 couple of I guess big guys on X took that 245 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,559 and said these are the top NIL budgets per school. 246 00:10:42,039 --> 00:10:44,679 I would love for you to explain to us and 247 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,240 to our listeners what's there is clearly a massive difference. 248 00:10:48,279 --> 00:10:49,919 Speaker 4: I think a lot of people don't understand. 249 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,519 Speaker 5: So can you explain the difference between the operating budget 250 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,200 and the NIL I. 251 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 3: Would be happy to And you're right, there is a 252 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,360 huge difference. What happens right now is that every buddy 253 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,679 in Division one and Division two, whether you're a public 254 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,120 school or a private school, has to file an itemized 255 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,639 budget report with the NC DOUBLEA every January. If you're 256 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,879 a private school like BYU, the only people that ever 257 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,480 get to see it are BYU pple use accountants and 258 00:11:14,519 --> 00:11:18,639 the NC DOUBLEA. But if you're a public institution, that 259 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,759 document is the subject to open records requests and lots 260 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,679 and lots of reporters. You'll get it. Every year. I 261 00:11:25,799 --> 00:11:29,159 file for every single school in Division one and Division two, 262 00:11:29,279 --> 00:11:31,879 as does USA today, as does the Athletic and the 263 00:11:31,919 --> 00:11:34,440 Chronicle of Higher Education and a handful of places, so 264 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,919 we all get these budget docs, and those documents break 265 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,240 down the revenues and expenses for every athletic department, and 266 00:11:41,279 --> 00:11:44,320 they're itemized by sport. So you can look down there 267 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,399 and it's like on page eighty seven of every report 268 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,679 or whatever, that will tell you total operating expenses for 269 00:11:50,279 --> 00:11:53,759 every sport, including men's basketball. And that figure includes all 270 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,919 the money that a school spent on coaching salaries, all 271 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,919 the money that it's spent on administrative salaries to support 272 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,559 that sport, all the money it's spent on travel, on food, 273 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:10,399 on software, on recruiting expenses, everything but player payroll. Now 274 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,960 that might change next year, but like for for this year, 275 00:12:13,159 --> 00:12:15,799 there were the budget reports to go by fiscal years 276 00:12:16,519 --> 00:12:19,720 rather than calendar years. So the most recent data anybody 277 00:12:19,799 --> 00:12:24,480 has is from the June thirtieth of July first, like 278 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,519 right before the House settlement kicks in. So there's the 279 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,399 we don't have the data in these reports from what 280 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,159 school's spent directly for revenue sharing, and if people are 281 00:12:33,159 --> 00:12:36,519 getting paid through We're collective, or through PEPSI or through 282 00:12:36,519 --> 00:12:39,919 some marketing agency or through donor bag, then it doesn't 283 00:12:39,919 --> 00:12:42,360 show up on their important So I can tell people, 284 00:12:42,399 --> 00:12:44,399 and that's what I publish, like, here's the report. Here's 285 00:12:44,399 --> 00:12:46,320 the data that I have, which is what people spend 286 00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:49,600 on everything else, and everything else is important in operating 287 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,639 a sport. It determines how much, how many, how many 288 00:12:51,639 --> 00:12:53,919 home games you could buy, how many staffers you can have, 289 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,240 whether your athletes are getting you know, good protein after 290 00:12:58,279 --> 00:13:00,840 workouts or if they're they're they're bump Muney milkoff, you know, 291 00:13:00,879 --> 00:13:03,039 from seven to eleven on the way home. All of 292 00:13:03,039 --> 00:13:06,320 that stuff matters. But I can't tell you how much 293 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,159 a school is paying their shooting guard or their basketball 294 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,440 team in general, because the school's lawyers all across the 295 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,559 country are saying, we don't have to share that. And 296 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,240 what happens on Twitter, and I think, and what happens 297 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,039 with agents and with some coaches is they're so desperate 298 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,799 for that information that they'll make it up or they'll 299 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:24,879 just lash to any number that they can possibly find 300 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,480 and say that's the payroll. And that's frustrating for me 301 00:13:27,519 --> 00:13:29,639 as a reporter, and I think for anybody that has 302 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:30,639 to operate in this space. 303 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's so frustrating. It's so annoying. 304 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,919 Speaker 5: Because we were talking about Jason McIntyre, he was hosting 305 00:13:37,919 --> 00:13:39,720 The Herd. We were talking about a clip from him 306 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,799 where he's like, well, bo, he's paying AJ's five to 307 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,360 seven million dollars And I'm with you, Matt, like, it's 308 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,320 it's so frustrating. It doesn't matter to me how much 309 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,360 BYU did or didn't pay a j de BoNT. I 310 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,519 think the bigger issue is that it's like it's almost 311 00:13:52,519 --> 00:13:56,480 like a reporter integrity issue where you have fan duel tweeting, Oh, 312 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,720 here's the top ten teams who are bounced from the 313 00:13:58,759 --> 00:13:59,960 tournament and how much they're spending. 314 00:14:00,399 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 4: We don't know that number. And I don't know. 315 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 5: If that's just because to your point, like maybe some 316 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,440 of these people think that operating budget and NIOL budget 317 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,440 is one and the same, or maybe they're reporting given 318 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,799 off of what agents give them, Like do you think 319 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,039 there's a world where we will ever live in and 320 00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:23,159 know I don't know if like salary cap of each 321 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:24,600 school is the way to look at it, but like 322 00:14:25,039 --> 00:14:27,360 it is really frustrating as someone who works in this 323 00:14:27,399 --> 00:14:30,759 space also to see these numbers being put out when 324 00:14:30,759 --> 00:14:32,720 you know that there's just no way that they can 325 00:14:32,759 --> 00:14:33,399 be accurate. 326 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's I think personally, I think that the 327 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,360 fact that nobody knows actually hurts almost everybody except a 328 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,919 handful of agents. Right if you're a member of BYU 329 00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:49,240 or Utah's coaching staff and an agent of a transfer 330 00:14:49,279 --> 00:14:51,879 comes back and says, hey, the number for me is 331 00:14:51,919 --> 00:14:54,759 one point eight million, and you know what everybody else 332 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,320 is recruiting that guy's is spending for their budget, and 333 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:58,919 you know what the salary cap is, and you know 334 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,720 there's no way, but that's pot then you're going to 335 00:15:01,759 --> 00:15:05,519 have a more informed, better conversation with that player. Or 336 00:15:05,639 --> 00:15:07,720 for a coach who goes through ad and says, oh 337 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,279 my god, we're in the bottom of fifteen percent of 338 00:15:10,279 --> 00:15:13,120 our conference. I can't possibly you have enough money here 339 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:14,799 to be effective. We need to go change some things. 340 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,039 These are all things that operators need to know, and 341 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,360 we know this in the NBA or the NFL or 342 00:15:20,399 --> 00:15:23,559 Major League baseball, because we have a collective bargaining agreement 343 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,039 that requires this information to be public, and we don't 344 00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:30,639 have that in college sports. We might have that someday, 345 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,799 whether that comes through Congress, whether that comes through increased 346 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,279 organizing and activism efforts from the athletes themselves, but we 347 00:15:39,519 --> 00:15:42,919 don't have that right now. And across the country, red state, 348 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,320 blue state, you know, urban campus, rural campus, schools are 349 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,879 fighting truth and nail for public records exemptions to disclose 350 00:15:50,919 --> 00:15:53,639 any of this kind of information. You know, I've asked 351 00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:56,639 over well over one hundred schools, like, don't tell me 352 00:15:56,679 --> 00:15:58,519 how much you're paying for shooting guard. I don't want 353 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:01,759 any personal identifying information. I just want to know how 354 00:16:01,799 --> 00:16:05,440 many how many checks your department wrote to athletes during 355 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,240 this time period, right, or break it down for me 356 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,799 by sport, like you would for any other vendor that 357 00:16:10,879 --> 00:16:13,120 you would for your your public athletic department. And then 358 00:16:13,279 --> 00:16:14,919 and they'll come back and they'll say no, And I 359 00:16:14,919 --> 00:16:17,559 don't have enough money to sue everybody for this, right, 360 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,279 and you know I need a lot more you people 361 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,879 listening to pay nine dollars for a premium subscription before 362 00:16:21,879 --> 00:16:26,320 I can go off and sue everybody. We can't do that. 363 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,519 So that's why, and and that's true for most newspapers, 364 00:16:28,519 --> 00:16:31,159 which is why it doesn't happen. And I think, I think, 365 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,600 I think that is frustrating. I'm sure some of it 366 00:16:33,639 --> 00:16:35,919 is ignorance, right, because who wants to talk about accounting 367 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,960 when they want to talk about sports? But I think, 368 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,360 particularly on Twitter, there's an algorithmic incentive to share the 369 00:16:43,399 --> 00:16:46,480 most outlandish stuff, whether it's about sports or gambling, or 370 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,519 weather or politics or anything else, and that's that's what 371 00:16:50,639 --> 00:16:53,720 catches on fire. I don't write click baity things, right. 372 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:55,840 People who've been following me and know me for a 373 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,759 while know I usually write really nerdy stuff. So if 374 00:16:59,799 --> 00:17:02,200 some thing you know blows up on Twitter, there's there's 375 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,400 a decent chance that's being misinterpreted somewhere. 376 00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:07,839 Speaker 5: Does it surprise you? And maybe it doesn't in the 377 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,599 world we live in in twenty twenty six, but like, 378 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,559 I'm surprised when I see a reputable account like FanDuel 379 00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:15,839 putting out this list of like these are the top 380 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,640 spenders in March Mandis, Like, does it surprise you when 381 00:17:18,759 --> 00:17:21,920 these companies and these reputable sources who clearly could not 382 00:17:22,039 --> 00:17:25,440 have gotten the information, are putting out numbers and they're 383 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,480 not even citing where they got it from. This may 384 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:29,920 be more of a conversation on like journalism that fans 385 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,000 don't really want to hear about. But I just I 386 00:17:32,079 --> 00:17:36,319 find this conversation about inaccurate NIL reporting to be so 387 00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:39,119 fascinating because of everything you just said. We don't have 388 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,960 a collective bargaining agreement. I'd love to know, like what 389 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,200 that would even require for us to get that. 390 00:17:45,599 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I think where I gently pushed back first 391 00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:51,400 is about the idea of FanDuel being some kind of 392 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,359 reputable source. It's a gambling company like Sandel doesn't have reporters. 393 00:17:55,759 --> 00:17:58,359 Sandel doesn't have doesn't have editors. Fandel. The only thing 394 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,279 Shandel cares about is more people gambling on Sanduel, and 395 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,880 the same thing for draft Kings, and the same thing 396 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,680 for these gajillion influencer accounts that are left to specifically 397 00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:14,240 juice the engagement numbers for online gambling. And I'm saying 398 00:18:14,319 --> 00:18:16,279 this on the air in this market right like I 399 00:18:16,519 --> 00:18:18,480 can go back and think of, you know, maybe not. 400 00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:21,599 Everything I picked up from my church experience is something 401 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,319 I want to keep with me as an adult. But boy, 402 00:18:23,319 --> 00:18:26,000 howdy think they nailed it about gambling, right. 403 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:26,559 Speaker 5: He. 404 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 3: Gives like to say, sure, I will, I will, I 405 00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:34,279 will give all Gordo Hinckley his fist props here. He 406 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,480 was right and we didn't see it coming and he 407 00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:39,559 was right, and so like, I definitely looked at that 408 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:44,079 industry as having some insidious, you know, negative impacts on 409 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,759 how we talk about sports generally. Right, you know, check 410 00:18:46,759 --> 00:18:48,720 out brother, you know brother, Brother Coppin's story in the 411 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:50,640 in the Atlantic was excellent and talks about a lot 412 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,759 of those things. But beyond that, Yeah, even even for 413 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:59,079 larger entities we've experienced, reporters are extensive, and a lot 414 00:18:59,079 --> 00:19:01,519 of the people that you know, everyone's been laying everybody off, 415 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,880 the people that are running the social desks. For some 416 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:05,960 of these larger entities, they might be twenty four and 417 00:19:06,319 --> 00:19:09,160 I would prefer, I would prefer to think they are 418 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,799 making mistakes out of ignorance rather than malice in trying 419 00:19:12,839 --> 00:19:16,680 to specifically pump up numbers. If we want to actually 420 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,839 make these things public for everything, we wouldn't need either 421 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,880 college basketball players to be deemed employees so they can 422 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,839 then legally unionize or at least organize and have a 423 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,759 legally binding CBA that would you know, permit this or 424 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,039 you would need federal or state laws to say, Hey, 425 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,880 universities that are getting you know, telgrant money or fast 426 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,440 some money or taxpayer money or state appropriations have to 427 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,880 share this information just like they do for every other 428 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,799 state employee or state vendor. Right Like, you don't have 429 00:19:49,839 --> 00:19:51,920 to be a full time employee at the University of 430 00:19:52,039 --> 00:19:55,799 Utah or if we were state or anybody. You can 431 00:19:55,799 --> 00:19:58,519 file a FOILA and get the contract for an independent 432 00:19:58,559 --> 00:20:00,680 contractor or a vendor, which is what the athletes would be. 433 00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:03,359 Somebody could listen to this and you know, figure out 434 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,920 what schools are paying me to go read my newsletter 435 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,519 or use my data product. Like that's that's all possible. 436 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,599 This athlete compensation is like one of the the two 437 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,359 exceptions that seems to be written in here, and that 438 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,920 has to be changed either in the courts or in Congress. 439 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,799 Speaker 1: Good point courts or Congress. Look there they're at BYU 440 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,880 fans that want to know what people are getting paid. Look, 441 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,559 I guarantee there is a there is. It's always interesting 442 00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:27,720 to me, you know, as I like to say, I 443 00:20:27,799 --> 00:20:30,759 call it the te sometimes there are fans who are like, look, 444 00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:33,920 I'm not participating in the fan duel and DraftKings, but 445 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,359 I would love to see those that are. And what 446 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,920 is who's betting on AJ and what is AJ making 447 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,359 in those states? It's crazy, But let's transition. We'll stand 448 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,640 on the topic of NIL. But you put out another piece. 449 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,839 You know, Cinderella's you know they're not showing up anymore. 450 00:20:46,839 --> 00:20:48,400 And it's bigger than an AIL a lot of people 451 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,839 because and I bring up another ESPN guy that said 452 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,200 something in another National guy, Jay Williams, Cinderellas are dead 453 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,119 because they'll just take a guy and hey, Boston College 454 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,640 will pay you five hundred thousand and that will be it. 455 00:20:59,799 --> 00:21:02,680 It's more than just in Io tell us why. 456 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. I think what we've seen over the last two 457 00:21:05,799 --> 00:21:08,160 years is the confluence of a couple of different things. 458 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,400 I think it's probably the portal more than in his 459 00:21:10,519 --> 00:21:12,920 NIL specifically, like guys have been getting paid a little 460 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,039 bit longer than they've been able to transfer it without penalty. 461 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,680 But it impacts mid major basketball the most because one 462 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,920 of the great equalizers that we saw over the last 463 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,400 twenty years would be when you'd have a team that 464 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,079 then't that you know, there wasn't as athletic, there wasn't 465 00:21:26,079 --> 00:21:29,000 as deep, but it was really experienced. If you had 466 00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:31,799 a team of a bunch of future insurance salesmen who 467 00:21:31,839 --> 00:21:34,319 were all red shirt juniors or seniors, been playing together 468 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,160 for three years and they shot the lights out, yeah 469 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,279 you could beat Kentucky. You can go beat somebody that 470 00:21:39,319 --> 00:21:41,559 has a couple of NBA first rounders. And we've seen 471 00:21:41,559 --> 00:21:45,240 that often in the portal era, where every roster across 472 00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:48,960 the country is highly transient, whether it's at Duke or 473 00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:53,960 BYU or Kansas State or you know, Baptists whatever, you're 474 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,079 generally losing between thirty and seventy per years. So it's 475 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,599 very difficult to build that kind of template. I think 476 00:22:00,599 --> 00:22:03,440 there's also some element of just bad luck involved here. 477 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,880 We had a couple of really good mid major teams 478 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,160 not win their conference tournaments this year, and so they 479 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,000 didn't get to make March Madness like this. Belmont was 480 00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:13,279 Belmont good enough to beat one of these, you know, 481 00:22:13,279 --> 00:22:15,079 one of these four or five seeds this year? Yeah, 482 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,160 I think so. UNC Wilmington won twenty five plus games 483 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,279 that they didn't make the tournament. Steven if Austin didn't 484 00:22:20,279 --> 00:22:22,759 make the tournament. These things happen, you get bad draws. 485 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,640 But there's also a basketball specific element which I think 486 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,319 I think is really interesting. Well, I saw this in 487 00:22:29,319 --> 00:22:31,039 Sports Illustrated and I was going to kind of check 488 00:22:31,079 --> 00:22:32,519 it through Ken Palm, and it looks like it's true 489 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,799 that a lot of the best teams are playing more low, 490 00:22:35,839 --> 00:22:41,359 post oriented basketball. And in a world where everyone's running 491 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,480 a five out system and you're trying to, you know, 492 00:22:43,519 --> 00:22:45,960 shoot forty three is a game you're gonna have a 493 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,200 little bit more variance game to game if somebody just 494 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,119 gets red hot, where a team with inferior athletes could 495 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,920 potentially win. But if you have more teams that are 496 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,680 playing a little bit more basketball, those might be closer 497 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,599 to like the ninety five Knicks, or or one that 498 00:23:00,599 --> 00:23:03,119 that's at least at least one that's that's not as 499 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,119 three heavy but is more big man heavy. There's just 500 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,319 not as many big men, right, Like God did not 501 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,640 make as many dudes who are six foot ten to 502 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,279 seven foot one to play center at high level baskets. 503 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: He did not. 504 00:23:14,599 --> 00:23:16,759 Speaker 3: And there's a good chance that your favorite mid make 505 00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:18,599 it doesn't have one of those guys just like God 506 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,880 didn't make that many five star edge rushers, and the 507 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,400 ones that he did, they're all going to Ohio State 508 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,480 in LSU like there are probably not playing at Utah Tech. 509 00:23:27,079 --> 00:23:31,039 So you you orient your team differently, and there were 510 00:23:31,079 --> 00:23:33,640 there were schematic ways that you could kind of give 511 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,880 yourself a fighting chance in football and basketball, And I 512 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,000 think one of the exciting things about covering the sport 513 00:23:38,519 --> 00:23:42,400 is that those things are always evolving. Maybe you know, 514 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,160 ten years ago that the trick would have been to 515 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,519 run a Princeton offense and take thirty seconds before every 516 00:23:47,559 --> 00:23:50,759 shot and try to upset somebody, you know, fifty two 517 00:23:50,759 --> 00:23:53,680 to fifty one. And maybe that doesn't work anymore. So 518 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,839 now we're gonna have to figure something else out. Maybe 519 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,240 maybe it's going the opposite direction and doing what Grennell 520 00:23:58,319 --> 00:24:00,160 and Vami used to do and try to win games 521 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,519 one hundred and forty to one hundred and twenty, or 522 00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:05,000 maybe somebody will. We'll figure out some other thing. But 523 00:24:05,519 --> 00:24:09,240 right now, between basketball orienting itself in a way that 524 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,720 that that gives more advantages to bigger teams and the 525 00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:17,160 portal and some bad luck, Yeah, it's a situation that 526 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,839 doesn't look good for mid majors. On the positive side, though, 527 00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:23,440 the best teams in this year's college basketball tournament and 528 00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:25,799 last year are way better than the best teams in 529 00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:29,319 college basketball five or six seven years ago, which should 530 00:24:29,319 --> 00:24:30,759 make an Elite eight or Final four. 531 00:24:30,839 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: That's just electric, which is why I picked Houston for mine. 532 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,319 I'll get you out of here on a lighthearted one 533 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,559 than Matt, Who did you pick for your national champion? 534 00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:40,039 I know you picked Ohio State. 535 00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 3: I did not. 536 00:24:41,599 --> 00:24:42,799 Speaker 1: Oh I kidding? 537 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 3: You actually pick them? No? No, please, There hasn't been 538 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,799 a reason to be emotionally invested in Ohio State basketball. 539 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:50,839 Speaker 1: In fifteen years. 540 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 3: I had people texting me like, what are you gonna 541 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,279 do if they play bau in an eight nine game? Like, 542 00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:57,440 I don't know, not watch, Like this team suck, I 543 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,319 don't care what. I'll go watch them, but I'll go 544 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,319 or somebody good. The team nine pick was Arizona. I 545 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,799 think if you if you had wanted to argue for Houston, 546 00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:08,720 if you had wanted to argue for Michigan, if you 547 00:25:08,759 --> 00:25:11,079 had wanted to argue for Duke, I don't think I 548 00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:13,640 would have. I think all all of those are valid. 549 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,920 I think Arizona can win a basketball game in more 550 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,480 ways to some of those other schools. But I mean 551 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,240 we were looking at kemp Palm. I wrote about this 552 00:25:22,279 --> 00:25:24,640 earlier this week, Right, like a team of Sanderbilt, which 553 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,599 is a five seed and out by the first weekend, 554 00:25:28,519 --> 00:25:30,480 was as efficient as like a number one seed in 555 00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:32,880 twenty seventeen season. Like the teams that we have left 556 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,359 with maybe the exception of Iowa, are all just dynamite 557 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:37,359 basketball teams. 558 00:25:37,799 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: How was amazing was that to see Todd Golden in 559 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,039 Florida fall to number nine Iowa. That was a great game. 560 00:25:43,799 --> 00:25:45,599 Speaker 3: It was, It was, It was. It was a heck 561 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,279 of a last minute thirty seconds, right, and especially after 562 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,599 such a chalky tournament like not that not that it's 563 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,839 really fun that you're disengaged to be like, ah, I'm 564 00:25:54,839 --> 00:25:57,680 so glad the plucky Big ten team with the budget 565 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,759 of one hundred and twelve million finally pulled something out. 566 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,559 But it is fun to see a couple of the 567 00:26:03,559 --> 00:26:06,319 one or two seeds, especially the defending national champion, lose, and 568 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:07,839 lose in a particularly funny way. 569 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,799 Speaker 1: Yeah BYU fans, little beef for Todd Golden. Going back 570 00:26:10,839 --> 00:26:13,519 to Mark Pope days at San Francisco and BYU. I 571 00:26:13,519 --> 00:26:15,200 know they were happy. I got a few text messages 572 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,880 about that. But that's not important. That's not relevant. 573 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 4: Matt. 574 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: What's the best way we can support you the listeners? 575 00:26:20,319 --> 00:26:21,319 What you're doing, how you do it? 576 00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:25,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, I just realized something like the Big Twelve players 577 00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:28,200 even asking for BYU now because you got Randy Bennett coming. 578 00:26:28,039 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: Back, Can we just can we just not talk about that. 579 00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:33,960 I've been texting fans and people and says, Ron, we're haunted, 580 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,000 and I says we're not haunted. I don't play, I 581 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,400 just cover. But yes, I know you guys are struggling. 582 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,240 Randy Bennett's back. It doesn't get any easier either. Matt too. 583 00:26:41,319 --> 00:26:44,400 Jered Calhoun. When Wes Miller got fired, I said, Jered 584 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,160 Calhoun will be gone. Utah State has been the feeder 585 00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:49,559 job for any P four program. I said, the Big 586 00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:52,119 Twelve is gonna get more difficult. And Randy Bennett already 587 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,759 making moves. Guys are in the portal already, Matt. He 588 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,319 flipped a couple of commitments. Yeah, b A, you might 589 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:58,039 be haunted again. 590 00:26:59,079 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you look, Jared's an Ohio guy. 591 00:27:01,319 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: I mean, yess and Logan for long. 592 00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 3: I was kind of hoping he might end up in 593 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,559 Columbus one of these days, but now probably not. But 594 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,359 if you, if, folks, if this kind of thing is 595 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,279 interesting to you, if you care about the business and 596 00:27:12,319 --> 00:27:14,759 the policy and the television stuff that shapes how college 597 00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:17,440 sports works, you might enjoy Extra Points. You can read 598 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,200 it for free at Extra Points NB dot com, or 599 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,920 for nine bucks a month, you can get access to 600 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,920 everything that we do, including our computer game Athletic Director 601 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,039 Simulator four thousand. 602 00:27:27,519 --> 00:27:29,599 Speaker 1: Hey, you gotta do it for nine bucks a month. 603 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,079 It's great work. It's great stuff. We love having Matt 604 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,160 on and great work always at extrapoints MB dot com. 605 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,559 You can follow on x, Twitter or whatever the kids 606 00:27:37,559 --> 00:27:39,960 call it these days. Matt, appreciate your time. We'll definitely 607 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,839 get caught up with you as the off season starts 608 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:42,359 to pick up. 609 00:27:43,079 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 3: You bet all right, BI Well fellas appreciate you guys. 610 00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:45,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll let you go. 611 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. 612 00:27:46,599 --> 00:27:50,039 Speaker 1: Love having Matt brown On. Got to have my Chicago 613 00:27:50,039 --> 00:27:52,960 guy on. Appreciate him always joining us. We've gone too long. 614 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,359 We really got to go to break, really got to 615 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,480 go to break. But appreciate Matt joining us. If you 616 00:27:57,519 --> 00:27:59,440 missed any of the interview or you're checking out on 617 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,720 the podcast right now if you're download and it appreciates you. 618 00:28:01,799 --> 00:28:05,039 That segment discussed probably one college football thing, but many 619 00:28:05,079 --> 00:28:08,640 college basketball's basketball season was brought to you by none 620 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,880 other the Dental proso Utah dot com. Look, I know 621 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:12,400 a lot of you are looking for the new dynasts. 622 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,440 You gotta get it today. Go to dinner Pros. Look, 623 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,680 they helped me out. They have the Bible metal industry. 624 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,400 They can rebuild your teeth layer by layers. You don't 625 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,960 have to settle for fake teeth. 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Bruce Mitchell is the 637 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,519 next level player. Andrew Gentry, next level player. Pockey Fee, 638 00:28:51,559 --> 00:28:54,920 Now who they've raved about this offensive line. TJ. Woods 639 00:28:55,039 --> 00:28:57,559 was a great hire in the showcasing true Let's say