Speaker 1: Good stuff today to start off with a historic weekend
Speaker 1: at Augustin National historic weekend for the Jazz just not
Speaker 1: a good way. Sixty five l's our next guest. Good
Speaker 1: to see her this morning. Asking the great questions that
Speaker 1: we've become accustomed to. From Sarah Todd, Utah Jazz be
Speaker 1: writer from the des Red News.
Speaker 3: Sarah, Happy Monday. How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm good? And it feels like at the end of
Speaker 2: every season NBA season, and particularly this one, after the
Speaker 2: year the Jazz had, I think I want to sleep
Speaker 2: for like three days straight.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you what the energy level
Speaker 1: is like? And it is a grind for everybody, but
Speaker 1: you guys on the beat, it's a different grind for
Speaker 1: you than it is for those of us that aren't
Speaker 1: there every night and asking questions every night?
Speaker 3: What was this like? To cover? What was history?
Speaker 1: For all the wrong reasons And we'll get to the
Speaker 1: potential reasons it could be right for this seventeen and
Speaker 1: sixty five Utah Jazz team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was kind of having this conversation last night.
Speaker 2: I think that it was it was for sure fatiguing,
Speaker 2: and it felt like maybe maybe not that it was
Speaker 2: like that it felt longer than any other season in particular,
Speaker 2: but that it felt like it dragged on. And I
Speaker 2: think that maybe one of the reasons that it did
Speaker 2: is because the if you're looking at like the process
Speaker 2: Ara Sixers and their tanking, you don't even have to
Speaker 2: think about any of those players because there's no intention
Speaker 2: of them being a part of the future. The whole
Speaker 2: point was get players together that aren't NBA ready so
Speaker 2: that they will lose to every NBA team, And so
Speaker 2: it wasn't really even about developing talent. But if you
Speaker 2: look at the like the Oklahoma City Thunder their tanking season,
Speaker 2: it was about finding specific players to place around Shay
Speaker 2: because they already had their central figure piece. And it's
Speaker 2: a little bit different with the Jazz because I think
Speaker 2: through so much of the season, like you know, they're
Speaker 2: investing so much time, but also I'm investing so much
Speaker 2: time and trying to figure out, like do I really
Speaker 2: care about Knte George? Am I supposed to care? Am
Speaker 2: I supposed to care about Isaiah Collier? Is this really
Speaker 2: a player I need to think about? Worry about his development?
Speaker 2: In terms of the Utah Jazz's future and when they
Speaker 2: eventually do start trying to win championships, and so I
Speaker 2: think that they're kind of in this middle ground where
Speaker 2: there's no central figure to place players around. There's not
Speaker 2: really types of players that they need to add because
Speaker 2: they don't know what types of players they really have yet,
Speaker 2: and so it's just there's this middle ground that just
Speaker 2: feels really tedious. Right now.
Speaker 1: Well said, and you know today with Jay z and
Speaker 1: Will addressing the media contingent and for listeners out there,
Speaker 1: of course, we have it on our website.
Speaker 3: We just played Zank, We're going to play well tomorrow.
Speaker 1: They're all saying the right things, and it's one thing,
Speaker 1: and that's the trouble and kind of the complications Sarah
Speaker 1: covering a team in the spot that the Jazz are
Speaker 1: in because it's almost like political filibustering, like they're saying
Speaker 1: things that have portions of truth. Yes, they are laying
Speaker 1: a foundation, they're in the middle of building a culture,
Speaker 1: in the beginning of building culture, quite frankly, and they're
Speaker 1: trying to learn about their young players, this, that, and
Speaker 1: the other. But they're also so non competitive. I wonder
Speaker 1: from your perspective, getting to know the coaches in the
Speaker 1: front office and the players. Who do you think is
Speaker 1: this the hardest song, who the continuous losing, the non
Speaker 1: serious approach about being competitive. Who do you think has
Speaker 1: the hardest time with what they're trying to do over there?
Speaker 2: I think i'd totally put Will Hardy at the front
Speaker 2: of that, because he's the one that has to get
Speaker 2: players buying in and playing at a level that then
Speaker 2: makes the front office believe that they can evaluate with
Speaker 2: some accuracy whether or not those players are capable of
Speaker 2: being role players in the future. And he has to
Speaker 2: get the players also believing that about themselves. You know,
Speaker 2: they look at the win loss record and they're having
Speaker 2: the doors beaten off by the Oklahoma States Under C team,
Speaker 2: and I think that that's probably a hard place to
Speaker 2: be in for Will. And then I also think about
Speaker 2: kind of the more veteran players on this team, John Collins,
Speaker 2: Jordan Clarkson, Colin Sexton, Larry Markinn. Some of those guys
Speaker 2: are either in their prime or they're in the final
Speaker 2: years of their in Jordan's case, the final years of
Speaker 2: his career, and they're seeing it kind of go away
Speaker 2: with tanking years and not being near being on a
Speaker 2: competitive team or being able to win and I think
Speaker 2: that it's probably hard for them to think about this
Speaker 2: being the place where it might end.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And we'll see what the off season brings.
Speaker 1: Justin was asked about that today. But of course, Sarah,
Speaker 1: the lottery and the draft will determine what the rest
Speaker 1: of the off season looks like. So let's dig into
Speaker 1: that for a moment, and let's start with a fun hypothetical.
Speaker 1: The Jazz have the worst record in the league. Now,
Speaker 1: the Flatten lottery odds mean that it's a fourteen percent
Speaker 1: chance to get number one, but it also means they
Speaker 1: will have a top five.
Speaker 3: Pick, which is good.
Speaker 1: Of course, I don't know where you're at with this
Speaker 1: this group. You know, the top five according to most
Speaker 1: in some sort of way with maybe certain variants, is
Speaker 1: Cooper Flagg at one, then Dylan Harper, Ace Bailey, vj Edgecomb,
Speaker 1: and Trey Johnson out of Texas, and most people then
Speaker 1: analyze prospects as far as what they do for a
Speaker 1: living every day, believe all five of them have a
Speaker 1: chance to be very good. But of course there does
Speaker 1: appear to be one tier at the top, and that
Speaker 1: is Cooper. So let's have fun and say, on May
Speaker 1: the twelfth Lady Luck shines on the Jazz and the
Speaker 1: way that it never has and Cooper Flag is the
Speaker 1: selection at one. How does that color the context and
Speaker 1: the approach of what you think jay Z and Danny
Speaker 1: and everyone else is going to do this offseason?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think I think that that at
Speaker 2: least creates a bit more urgency in the timeline, not
Speaker 2: a ton because we have to remember that Cooper Flag
Speaker 2: turned to eighteen years old in December, and so he's
Speaker 2: got a long time. But then you kind of are
Speaker 2: able to do what I was talking about a couple
Speaker 2: of minutes ago, where well, you've got Cooper, you've got Walker,
Speaker 2: you've got Lowry and you can and you've got Colin Sexton.
Speaker 2: At that point, maybe you don't even have to worry
Speaker 2: about trading away too many things. You probably want to
Speaker 2: open up the roster a little bit, but at that
Speaker 2: point you're starting to look at trying to create lineups
Speaker 2: and pick players that you think are actually going to
Speaker 2: work well together. It's not so much about just identifying
Speaker 2: talent for talents sake, but identifying the right kind of
Speaker 2: talent to put around someone like Cooper Flag who has
Speaker 2: the potential to be a number one guy in the future.
Speaker 2: And then also if you get a guy like Cooper
Speaker 2: and you have kind of this nice looking foundation of
Speaker 2: a basketball team, then that might look a lot better
Speaker 2: for players potentially coming here to play with that group.
Speaker 2: Trading is a lot more specific, because again you're looking
Speaker 2: for specific pieces that are going to work around Cooper,
Speaker 2: and so it just it gives more direction when you
Speaker 2: have a piece like that on the team instead of
Speaker 2: just kind of trying to just gather and mess talent
Speaker 2: without knowing where it's all going to fit into the puzzle.
Speaker 1: If it is not number one overall, if it's not
Speaker 1: Cooper flag and I suppose it just depends on how
Speaker 1: well you know what the calculation is on some of
Speaker 1: these other players, and only you know Danny and Justin
Speaker 1: and their staff know what they think about Dylan Harper
Speaker 1: at two, or Ace Bailey at three, or VJ at
Speaker 1: four or Trey at five or whatever you know the
Speaker 1: take is on those other four players. But it does
Speaker 1: feel like those are the top five players as far
Speaker 1: as all the mocks I look at in whatever order
Speaker 1: you want to go. So, if it's not Cooper and
Speaker 1: it's one of these secondary yet very good players.
Speaker 3: How does that color what do you think the offseason
Speaker 3: looks like?
Speaker 2: Again, I think that because some of these players are
Speaker 2: coming in with such a higher profile than some of
Speaker 2: the other young players that are already on this Jazz team,
Speaker 2: even if it's not Cooper, it starts to give a
Speaker 2: little bit of directionality. So like, if it's Dylan, then
Speaker 2: I think, you know, you picked Dylan at number two,
Speaker 2: then you you kind of have to go into that
Speaker 2: pick with you know, the money that would be guaranteed
Speaker 2: to that contract, and think, this is our point guard
Speaker 2: of the future. So then you're not experimenting with Keyante
Speaker 2: Isaiah anymore. You can make Isaiah a backup point guard
Speaker 2: if you want to, but you know that's something that
Speaker 2: can be kind of nearly set in stone, is like,
Speaker 2: we're going to put him in this position, and that's
Speaker 2: our plan so long as it pans out. And so,
Speaker 2: you know, last year's rookie class was I mean, it
Speaker 2: was no secret that it was weaker compared to this one.
Speaker 2: And so if you get one of those top five players,
Speaker 2: it at least gives you somewhere to begin to start
Speaker 2: to like kind of put in place things that feel
Speaker 2: like they're a little bit more solid than they are now,
Speaker 2: because right now things just feel like so fluid and
Speaker 2: kind of like a big shrug emoji.
Speaker 1: Yes, accurate, Yes, that's an accurate emoji to use in
Speaker 1: this scenario. All right, Justin and Will in a different
Speaker 1: sort of way, they were both kind of asked today
Speaker 1: what will next year look like? And I'm asking you
Speaker 1: to read teeleies. I'm asking you to look into a
Speaker 1: Sarah Crystal ball because.
Speaker 3: We have no idea.
Speaker 1: I mean, the NBA these days, with the amount of
Speaker 1: player movement, coaches being fired, good players being traded, as
Speaker 1: Jay Z alluded to, with the Jazz clean books and
Speaker 1: draft capital, they are prepared should something exciting come their way.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of teams with very high payrolls
Speaker 1: that have decisions to make. Phoenix is going to move
Speaker 1: off of Durant. They might even have to move off
Speaker 1: of Booker because they don't own it their own draft
Speaker 1: capital in twenty thirty two, and there are other teams
Speaker 1: that are going to have financial decisions to make where
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to jettison off good players. So we'll
Speaker 1: have to see what the lottery brings. We'll have to
Speaker 1: see what the draft brings. We'll have to see what
Speaker 1: the roster construction looks like. But there is this draft
Speaker 1: coming up next year with the Boozer Twins, with aj
Speaker 1: DEBANTSI is going to be playing at BYU that has thought,
Speaker 1: and there are a bunch of other young kids. I
Speaker 1: don't know, but what I read about them, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of draft analysts that believe next year's draft
Speaker 1: has a chance to be as good, if not better
Speaker 1: than this year's draft. So the Sarah Todd take, what
Speaker 1: the six Utah Jazz seasons go look like?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been saying that for a while, and I
Speaker 2: fully expect for the Jazz to tank again next season.
Speaker 2: I think that there are obvious variables that you're talking
Speaker 2: about that could change that. If the Jazz get Cooper
Speaker 2: and then chaos around the league this summer does end
Speaker 2: up with them getting kind of a blue chip player
Speaker 2: like Devin Booker for example, or like you know, if
Speaker 2: if Yannis or Devin Booker or someone of that ilk
Speaker 2: and somewhere in between those players, right, if someone like
Speaker 2: that would be traded to the Jazz or for them
Speaker 2: to be able to offer a contract to someone like that,
Speaker 2: then the timeline changes because then you've got Cooper and
Speaker 2: like a top twenty player, and and whether or not
Speaker 2: you're able to keep guys like Lowry or Walker throughout
Speaker 2: whatever trade it would take to get that kind of
Speaker 2: a player to come to Utah. But still then you've
Speaker 2: got kind of a foundation where it's too good to tank,
Speaker 2: and you might that's going to accelerate the timeline and
Speaker 2: it start to start it's time to start trying to
Speaker 2: win games. That being said, I think that if the
Speaker 2: Jazz get Cooper but not like a big blockbuster trade
Speaker 2: player over the off season, they are not going to
Speaker 2: want to go into the twenty twenty six draft and
Speaker 2: not have a pick, because they that's going to be
Speaker 2: a very good draft. And you mentioned aj Debonsa and
Speaker 2: Cameron Boozer, and I also know that there's a lot
Speaker 2: of people within the Jazz front office that really like
Speaker 2: Darren Peterson. He's I'm pretty sure that he's out of Ohio.
Speaker 2: He's one of the guys that plays on these prep
Speaker 2: teams that plays against a bonsa and he's very very good.
Speaker 2: He's incredibly developed for his age, and he's going to
Speaker 2: be a player that a lot of teams are going
Speaker 2: to want and so that's you know, top three right there.
Speaker 2: And I think that the Jazz would be more than
Speaker 2: happy to have any one of those three. And I
Speaker 2: don't think that they want to miss out on that.
Speaker 2: And so if there's not a very very clear cut,
Speaker 2: big blockbuster move that happens, then I fully expect for
Speaker 2: the Jazz to tank again next season.
Speaker 1: How do you think that resonates with this fan base?
Speaker 1: You know, justin today the first thing he referenced, and
Speaker 1: a lot of it was blate boilerplate stuff, and so
Speaker 1: you kind of have to focus and pay attention and
Speaker 1: then take away the things that actually are real. But
Speaker 1: one of the things Jay Z referenced is the Jazz
Speaker 1: fans packing that building. I think it's three hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty three straight sellouts or something like that. And I
Speaker 1: think I was there for ten or eleven home games,
Speaker 1: which is the fewest in years.
Speaker 3: I mean, once upon a time, I was there, as
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: For everyone, and every game I was there, even if
Speaker 1: the opponent wasn't all that exciting.
Speaker 3: The building was packed.
Speaker 1: Now TV were down massively, Sarah, as you know, you know,
Speaker 1: during the heyday of the Quinn Gobert Mitchell Jazz.
Speaker 3: The Jazz were second.
Speaker 1: In the NBA and local TV ratings to the Warriors.
Speaker 1: And the Warriors, of course, with Stephen Durant and Clay
Speaker 1: and Draymond and that group were must see TV for
Speaker 1: everybody locally and nationally, and the Jazz what I read,
Speaker 1: they had the worst drop outside of one other team
Speaker 1: in local TV ratings in the league. So fans showed up,
Speaker 1: but a lot of fans turn their TVs off. And
Speaker 1: we've seen organizations in the past, including when you covered
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia with Sam Hinkey. You said, look, trust the process,
Speaker 1: that was this whole thing, and after a while, Philly,
Speaker 1: a great basketball city, was like I'm out. You know,
Speaker 1: fans started, you know, they started just not just turning
Speaker 1: it off on TV. They stopped showing up at the
Speaker 1: spectrum whatever they're calling it these days. So what's an
Speaker 1: expectation for these fans to keep staying loyal if next
Speaker 1: year is a lot like this year?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know. Jay Z was talking about
Speaker 2: it today, The players have talked about it before. Will
Speaker 2: Hardy has mentioned it multiple times. The fans in the
Speaker 2: building and even just like general support when any of
Speaker 2: these guys are seen out in public is very high
Speaker 2: and has remained high in impressive way. It doesn't surprise
Speaker 2: me at all, but ratings are down because like, you know,
Speaker 2: going out for a night to a basketball game, potential
Speaker 2: to see like stars on the incoming, you know, visiting
Speaker 2: team that all feels like kind of a night out
Speaker 2: and a fun activity. But it's not really a fun
Speaker 2: activity to watch a tanking team lose every night on TV.
Speaker 2: Like that's not fun. So I get that. But I
Speaker 2: think one of the reasons that you know, the Jazz
Speaker 2: brass have all been so adamant about how much they
Speaker 2: appreciate the fan base and the engagement being so high
Speaker 2: still is because they know how important it is, and
Speaker 2: they know that it's unusual. They know that it's abnormal.
Speaker 2: We've seen I mean, I include myself because I've seen
Speaker 2: all these NBA arenas in person. Bad teams don't get
Speaker 2: packed houses the way that the Jazz do. The Delta
Speaker 2: Center is very very unique in that, and I think
Speaker 2: that they know that this year might not be the
Speaker 2: end of that, and so it's they're kind of the
Speaker 2: lack of a They're not begging, but it's kind of
Speaker 2: like subtle wink wink, begging like, please stay with us
Speaker 2: just a little bit longer, right, because it's probably not
Speaker 2: going to be like this for much longer. I would
Speaker 2: I fully expect after this upcoming season, the twenty five
Speaker 2: to twenty six season, I would expect for that to
Speaker 2: be the Jazz's last tank year. I think that after
Speaker 2: that they really have to start going for it and so,
Speaker 2: and it may not be good that that might not
Speaker 2: mean making the playoffs right away, but it'll mean trying
Speaker 2: to win games for real and trying to put together
Speaker 2: a roster that is actually going to be able to
Speaker 2: contend within the next couple of years. And so I
Speaker 2: think that there's a sentiment behind all of these words
Speaker 2: and platitudes that's just like, please stay with us just
Speaker 2: a little bit longer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we'll see.
Speaker 1: Only the fans can decide, And if you decide that
Speaker 1: you want to tap out for a while, doesn't make
Speaker 1: you a bad fan, because this is a tough ask
Speaker 1: for a community that's used to competitive basketball. Before I said,
Speaker 1: you LuSE Sarah, one of the things that Will talked
Speaker 1: about that kind of perked my ears up when he
Speaker 1: was asked, I'll use the three examples that he kind
Speaker 1: of used the same desire for their off season with Keyante,
Speaker 1: with Bryce and with Isaiah. He referenced with all three
Speaker 1: of them, they need to be in better shape.
Speaker 3: He used different adjectives.
Speaker 1: I think he said for Isaiah his conditioning needs to
Speaker 1: be a superpower. Said the same thing about Keyante. Then
Speaker 1: reference Bryce his body has to be his first priority.
Speaker 1: That stood out to me. I was not expecting to
Speaker 1: hear that with all read those players. What were you
Speaker 1: what's your takeaway with that, that dynamic that will use
Speaker 1: to describe all three of them this offseason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, couldn't agree more honestly. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: for I'll just go through all three of them, and
Speaker 2: I'll even include uh, Kyle Filipowski is a fourth one,
Speaker 2: and that like we saw so many times and and
Speaker 2: Will actually, I mean he said I need Kyle to
Speaker 2: be more solid on defense, and the you know the
Speaker 2: sub tweet and that is like, your lower body needs
Speaker 2: to be stronger because you're getting pushed off the block
Speaker 2: constantly by guys that are.
Speaker 3: Smaller than you.
Speaker 2: So the it's all about the things that the that
Speaker 2: Will sees as potentially like points of potential for these players.
Speaker 2: But if they aren't able to maximize their literal physical
Speaker 2: strength and get into condition that makes them, you know,
Speaker 2: an athlete that can survive playing high minutes and heavy
Speaker 2: minutes in the NBA, then they're not going to be
Speaker 2: able to sick. And so for Bryce, like he cut
Speaker 2: down a ton of weight between last season and this
Speaker 2: season during the off season last year, and he needs
Speaker 2: to just continue to do it. He needs to just
Speaker 2: continue getting in better shape because while he's a good shooter,
Speaker 2: he's not able to like run quickly off screen kind
Speaker 2: of a lah JJ Reddick right or Steph Curry. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying that he's going to be that type of
Speaker 2: shooter for either of them, but like that, that's what
Speaker 2: really good shooters need to do, is they need to
Speaker 2: be a threat, not just a spot up or maybe
Speaker 2: you know, dribbling into the shot, but coming around screens
Speaker 2: really fast, and you have to be in really good
Speaker 2: shape to do that. For Keyante, he has to be
Speaker 2: able to be just a defender. I don't want to
Speaker 2: say a good defender or a great defender. He just
Speaker 2: has to play defense and he needs to get stronger
Speaker 2: to be able to do that. And part of it
Speaker 2: is his strength, but part of it is the effort.
Speaker 2: He really has to put in some effort on that
Speaker 2: side of the wall, but it's tied to how much
Speaker 2: detail and attention he pays to his body this summer.
Speaker 2: And Isaiah also as a defender as someone who's going
Speaker 2: to be creating their own shot potentially and someone who
Speaker 2: runs with the pace that he does. And that's probably
Speaker 2: the biggest piece is that, like he's a really fast player,
Speaker 2: which can be a huge superpower for a player who
Speaker 2: plays point guard when they play with that kind of speed,
Speaker 2: but he has to be able to do it for
Speaker 2: longer without getting tired, and for eighty two games a
Speaker 2: year plus.
Speaker 1: Sarah, great stuff. Proud of you for not taking a
Speaker 1: bite of a bagel. Then try to ask your question
Speaker 1: like our buddy Andy did today. You handle yourself like
Speaker 1: a pro. Have a great week. We'll get you back
Speaker 1: on soon.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, thanks a lot, Ben.
Speaker 1: All right, Sarah Todd You Todd Jazz beat rider for
Speaker 1: the Desert Red News. You can get her on Twitter
Speaker 1: to follow all of her work, the two times Utah
Speaker 1: Sports Rider of the Year at NBA.
Speaker 3: Sarah is where you find her