WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:02.759 Hudson River Radio dot com. 2 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:04.360 It beats listening to nothing. 3 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:10.279 My goodness, Frank, being Frank, right, were the only way 4 00:00:10.279 --> 00:00:16.839 to be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to being Frank. 5 00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:20.359 We're the only way to be is Frank. I'm your host, 6 00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:22.600 Frank Lebuono, and I'd like to thank you for joining 7 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:26.359 us on what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast, 8 00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:30.000 where no conversation is out of bounds and all points 9 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:34.159 of view are welcome. Of course, listeners are familiar with 10 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:37.280 our routine. We record live to tape. I always give 11 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:39.840 you the date so you have some context and relevance. 12 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:42.439 Tomorrow is Thanksgiving as a matter of fact, as we 13 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:45.079 record a little bit. More on that later, but first, 14 00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:49.359 the AP recently reported and I quote, President Donald Trump's 15 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:53.640 efforts to broker and end the Russia Ukraine War closely 16 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:56.920 mirrors the tactics he used to end two years of 17 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:02.320 fighting between Israel and Amas. Bold terms that favor one side, 18 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:06.480 deadlines for the combatants, and vague outlines for what comes next. 19 00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:11.680 The details enforcing the terms, guaranteeing security, who pays for 20 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:13.519 a rebuilding matter less? 21 00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:14.519 End quote. 22 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:17.799 There's a little question as to exactly which side those 23 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:21.519 bold terms favor, and the answer lies in why more 24 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:26.719 than who. Despite values that align more closely with our 25 00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:30.879 own than with Russia, the Trump administration has consistently sided 26 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:34.599 with the Russians over the Ukrainians. The most recent proposal, 27 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:38.040 as backed by the US for peace, with its draconian 28 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:41.599 measures that seems to blame Ukraine for just being Ukraine 29 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:45.200 is clear evidence of that. It certainly left their president, 30 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:49.280 Votimir Zelensky between a rock and a hard place. It's 31 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:52.359 a situation that is so fluid it may even be changing. 32 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:55.519 As we report, there is a glimmer of hope for 33 00:01:55.640 --> 00:01:58.439 more agreeable and balanced terms to end this bitter and 34 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:02.599 brutal conflict. It seems that the Trump administration has backed 35 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:07.159 off the terms originally proposed. However, based on past performance 36 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:12.280 and trends, those who support Ukraine remains skeptical. In addition 37 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:16.120 to Ukraine's approval, there is no telling how Putin's Russia 38 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:19.120 will respond to the new terms, so there's still a 39 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:22.520 long way to go. Returning to being frank to attempt 40 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:24.960 to sort it all out in shape a possible future 41 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:28.360 for Ukraine and therefore Eastern Europe. Is a man who 42 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:31.560 has been there reporting from the very beginning and remains 43 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:36.400 steadfast in his support of Ukraine. Please welcome back the 44 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:39.840 man I like to call the intrepid phil Ipner. Phil, 45 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:41.599 thank you so much for joining us again. 46 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:43.159 Hi, Frank, could be bad. 47 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:48.879 Now we were talking off camera off air, I should say, 48 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:51.800 and you literally are back. You're back in the States. 49 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:54.960 You're in your home state of Michigan and been back 50 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:59.599 for about a week. What brought you back, and let's 51 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:01.240 start with that. Why are you back in the station? 52 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:06.120 Well, I mean they just I needed to come back 53 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:09.879 and take care of some some matters that I had 54 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:12.879 to actually physically be here to sign some papers and 55 00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:17.759 sit down with some people and those things. And of 56 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:23.800 course there's also the holidays, so it just and needed 57 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:27.000 to take care of some legal and financial stuff. 58 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:30.080 So in essence of return to your other life, if 59 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:32.719 you will it, because you've been living this and you've 60 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:35.280 been there since as I said in the intro, from 61 00:03:35.319 --> 00:03:37.800 the beginning, it's been over three years. Now. Could you 62 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:41.360 ever have imagined being there for three years when you 63 00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:42.520 first went, Phil. 64 00:03:43.159 --> 00:03:46.439 No, I didn't. I didn't think it was gonna last 65 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:50.840 that long. I had fears that it might bolt down 66 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:54.159 and last that long. But I know I didn't. I 67 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:56.879 did not think that it would be well now going 68 00:03:56.919 --> 00:03:59.919 on four years, and know the war would study going on. 69 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:05.039 So yeah, in February unfortunately, Yeah, and Phil. 70 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:12.639 You know, we see images obviously seemingly wanton destruction that 71 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:16.199 again you mentioned close to four years has to be 72 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:18.680 taking the toll, you know, I know the Ukrainians are 73 00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:21.360 bold and proud. It's one of the things I mentioned, 74 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:24.120 you know, with Zelensky being put between a rock and 75 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:29.120 a hard place, because it seems, you know, if there's 76 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.399 nothing done, more people will die. But what they were 77 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:36.519 proposing to do was obviously not going to work for 78 00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:40.439 the Ukrainians. But so if you can, what was the 79 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:42.959 mood like, what is it like there? What was it 80 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:44.839 like when you left, which I assume would be the 81 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:46.000 same as it is today. 82 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.360 Well, and I'm still in touch with people back in Ukraine. 83 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:59.040 The proposed peace agreement or ceasefire or whatever, the twenty 84 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:01.920 originally twenty points, I don't know. They whittled it down 85 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:04.800 to a few more. I don't know where things are 86 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:08.519 going to stand at the end, but it's it's a 87 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:14.879 it's a surrender, it's it's it gives Russia all the advantages. 88 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:24.000 It benefits Russia all predominantly in all the different points. 89 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:28.439 Ukraine gets very little out of it, except for some weak, 90 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:32.839 you know, assurances that some sort of Article five would 91 00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:35.720 be created. But you know, given the fact that they 92 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:41.160 already had an agreement and it was broken, the nineteen 93 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:45.480 ninety four Budapest Memorandum, and we were supposed to guarantee 94 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:48.959 their borders and we didn't, so they're skeptical about any 95 00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:54.319 of that. And it's you know, the Russians asking for 96 00:05:54.439 --> 00:06:02.319 things that are outrageous. Land that hasn't been seized yet 97 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:05.759 that would have to be just handed over to the Russians, 98 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:11.360 Ukrainian land, uh, you know, the they make a very 99 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:18.560 kind of weak uh discussion or a point about returning children. 100 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:25.160 They they the proposal insists that no war crimes will 101 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:29.120 be pursued. That's not going to be acceptable to a 102 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:33.920 lot of Ukrainians. I think this is dead our arrival. 103 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:39.600 But which do you see is the most egregious. I mean, 104 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:43.839 you said the list and it goes on and. 105 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:45.879 Yeah, the worst, one of the worst one of it 106 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:49.160 is well, I mean there are a number of bad 107 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:50.879 ones of it. But the worst of all of it, 108 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:57.560 I think is giving up land uh and and and 109 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:00.839 I mean it's like they're the Russians are in a 110 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:07.720 position where they've taken, you know, San Diego, and they say, 111 00:07:07.879 --> 00:07:10.360 give us all of California because we have we have 112 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:15.319 occupied San Diego to the Ukrainians. It's ridiculous. And in 113 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:19.959 addition to that, the land that they're talking about that 114 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:24.480 they that the Russians want ceded to them are actually 115 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:31.079 some of the most deeply entrenched defensive earthworks that the 116 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:34.319 Ukrainians have in the country that they've been building for 117 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.920 over a decade since the twenty fourteen invasion of Crimea 118 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:43.319 and Donbass. They've been digging in along a series of 119 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:47.920 industrial cities, and if they were to give that up, 120 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:54.720 it would be giving up a huge defensive line that 121 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:59.160 would just make them susceptible to another attack. So I 122 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:01.399 think that's the worst of it, and that's probably that's 123 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:06.639 probably the thing that Ukrainians are going to reject the most. 124 00:08:06.680 --> 00:08:13.800 I mean, Zelensky and his administration can kind of make 125 00:08:14.040 --> 00:08:19.040 overtures and make statements and try to manage Trump as 126 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:22.560 best they can, but if they came back to Ukraine 127 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:28.959 with the offer that was presented at the beginning, or frankly, 128 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:35.639 really any variation on that, they'll be it'll be rejected 129 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:42.480 and Zolensky will be in trouble of being you know, ousted. 130 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:46.759 So yeah, they won't accept it. 131 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:50.360 Well, you mentioned something that I want to get into 132 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:53.519 a little bit too again. I mentioned the visuals which 133 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:56.519 are just shocking to Americans because of the viciousness of 134 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:59.080 the attacks and how personal they are. And I saw 135 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:01.000 a clip I believe it was from a documentary and 136 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:03.360 I've forgive me. I might have been on CNN, one 137 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:08.480 of the news channels about a city where two hypersonic 138 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:12.320 rockets hit, one hitting a bus, which I'm sure you're 139 00:09:12.679 --> 00:09:17.159 familiar with. It actually brought me to tears. The story 140 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:21.679 was about an investigator, a war crimes investigator, who actually 141 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:25.000 saved parts of the bus for a day when he 142 00:09:25.039 --> 00:09:29.320 can finally bring this to light. But not only the 143 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:33.799 physical but the emotional damage created. I mean it literally 144 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.720 brought me to tears. I don't understand what kind of 145 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:43.600 mindset brings people to that level of barbarity, to the 146 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:47.919 a bus that carried innocent women, children just on a bus. 147 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:49.960 Talk to that a little film please. 148 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:54.200 Well there, yeah, I mean, you know, one of the 149 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:57.000 primary things that they're trying to do is terrorize the 150 00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:05.000 Ukrainians into submission, and so they're hitting civilian apartment buildings, 151 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:08.440 they're hitting the energy sector so that people are frozen 152 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:14.399 out or without water to make life unbearable. And then 153 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:19.559 their idea is that the Ukrainians will, you know, at 154 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:24.879 some point accept, you know, ben the knee and surrender. 155 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:30.519 And it's we're a long way off from the Ukrainians 156 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:37.240 being anywhere near willing to surrender or give up. Everybody's exhausted. 157 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:40.120 The people of Ukraine are exhausted. They want the war 158 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:42.639 to stop, they want you know, they want to return 159 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:48.559 to their normal lives. But you know, the overwhelming majority 160 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:53.279 of Ukrainians still recognize that if you appease a bully, 161 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:56.039 he's just going to come back later. And they know 162 00:10:57.399 --> 00:11:02.279 Russia very well. They've been occupy by Russia for roughly 163 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:09.679 five hundred years, five centuries. You know, this is Moscow's 164 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:15.200 imperialism in colonizing Ukraine, and they so they know who 165 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:22.519 their imperial master is better than anybody. And I most 166 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.279 of the most Ukrainians that I speak to say that 167 00:11:27.159 --> 00:11:29.519 as much as they're exhausted, as much as they want 168 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:33.440 the war to end in unjust peace is only just, 169 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:38.559 is only going to create another war in you know, 170 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:41.360 who knows when it's going to be. Who knows what 171 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:44.559 the timetable is, but it'll be an inevitability. Two years 172 00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:48.799 from now, three, five, ten, whatever. The Russians will go back, 173 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:52.559 they'll lick their wounds, they'll be accepted back into the 174 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:57.480 global community, they will make money and funnel it into 175 00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:00.279 their armed forces, and then they'll come back for another out. 176 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:04.960 So the Ukrainians know this very well, and so they're 177 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:15.519 it's it's not just that they're being that they're being stubborn. 178 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:19.039 It's it's that they know that a fight that is 179 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:28.320 drawn to a close now without real conclusive developments you 180 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.919 know on the land on the ground or you know, 181 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:34.919 within the Kremlin. Uh, it just means that the Russians 182 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:38.200 will come again. So I again, I don't see them 183 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:42.679 accepting this this plan at all. Bill. 184 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:46.639 In almost four years, as you mentioned, so much has changed. 185 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:47.240 Uh. 186 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:51.559 You mentioned you know, everything changes, but in your mind, 187 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:54.399 what what has changed? It can never come back that well, 188 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:57.279 now you know, it has to be a different Ukraine. 189 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:00.279 I think at this point, in what ways do you 190 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.000 see that, both positively and negatively. 191 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:11.480 Well, in the positive sense, it's united Ukraine. Ukraine is 192 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:21.120 a multicultural country, it's multi religious, and it's that's often 193 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:25.279 been used by Moscow as a way to divide and 194 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:34.039 conquer in Ukraine. That that has changed, it's not completely gone, 195 00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:40.600 but pretty much all Ukrainians are united in their sense 196 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:45.480 of you know, we may have differences. I may be Jewish, 197 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:48.480 I may be a Jewish Ukrainian soldier. You may be 198 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:53.279 a Muslim Ukrainian soldier. He might be a Catholic, he 199 00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:58.279 might be a Protestant, he might be an ethnic Roma 200 00:13:59.080 --> 00:14:02.840 or a Chat or a Pole or take a pick. 201 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:06.039 But right now we're all in it together and we're 202 00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:09.799 all Ukrainians. So that's a positive, and I think it's 203 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:13.519 a positive that will last beyond the war. It'll fray, 204 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:17.919 it'll you know, people being people will resort to kind 205 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:22.240 of you know, cracks and schisms. But I don't see 206 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:26.879 the I don't see the lesson of we are stronger 207 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:31.240 together than a part going anywhere in Ukraine anytime soon. 208 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:40.679 The bad thing that has, you know, is just the 209 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:47.440 lost huge chunks of human lives are gone, aside from 210 00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:51.279 you know, losing loved ones. You know, one of the 211 00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:55.320 most insidious things about war is that you're on hold. 212 00:14:55.440 --> 00:15:01.919 Your entire life is unpredictable, constantly unpredictable. Make any plans 213 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:06.799 you can't you know. Uh, there's there's so much that's 214 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:10.200 out of your control because of the war. 215 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:11.320 Uh. 216 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:16.960 And I think that sense of destabilization and the lost years, 217 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:24.919 especially for children, whole generation will yeah, yeah, they're growing up, 218 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:28.960 they're growing up learning in bomb shelters. There's there's schools 219 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:30.080 are in bomb shelters. 220 00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:33.720 So what should Americans take from that? I mean, we 221 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:36.799 mentioned tomorrow's Thanksgiving. I have my what's left of my 222 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:40.120 small family coming over for some meal and it's wonderful 223 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:44.080 and warm and overall we're safe. What do you want 224 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:47.639 people to realize that, you know, in the connection between 225 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:51.480 I guesst us in Ukraine and again Thanksgiving is a 226 00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:55.679 traditional American hoppity. Make that clear. But still the mindset 227 00:15:55.759 --> 00:16:00.799 of family togetherness, safety, we have it. They don't contrasts 228 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:03.840 that the black and white of that. 229 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:07.720 Well, they still you know, when they do have holidays, 230 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:13.080 you know, whether it's their Independence Day or Christmas or 231 00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:18.519 New Year's you know, they they're they're still they go 232 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:23.440 out of their way, uh to try and keep normality. 233 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:27.279 So they do celebrate the holidays as as a matter 234 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:30.519 of fact, you know, in some ways more than normally 235 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:35.200 because they are so you know, any chance that you 236 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:40.679 can get to grab some semblance of normality and some 237 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:44.519 something that reminds you of a life before there was war, 238 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:51.360 they're they're big on that. So they do do their celebrations. 239 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:58.559 You know, in terms of Americans being safe and able 240 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:03.879 to gather and enjoy the family and food and festivities. 241 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.759 You know, it's a scary the concept of losing that 242 00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:14.079 is very scary, and we should be aware that going 243 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:21.839 down the road of political violence is you know, it 244 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:26.400 might kind of have a visceral like I'd love to 245 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:32.640 be unrestrained and do this, but war is a very 246 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:36.200 terrible thing to start and it's a very difficult thing 247 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:41.640 to stop. And war has ramifications that we in our 248 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:46.400 comfortable lives in the West and particularly in America, have 249 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:49.319 no concept of. I mean, do you really want to 250 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:52.400 you know, if you have to travel to the next 251 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:54.799 town over, but you have to go through a checkpoint 252 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:59.599 because you know, your vehicle needs to be inspected before 253 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:02.440 you can you know, if the if the if the 254 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.119 Walmart is in another town, you have to go through 255 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:07.279 a checkpoint to get into that into that town. Do 256 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:10.640 Americans want to live like that? Do Americans want to 257 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:14.559 live with the constant threat of some sort of you know, 258 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:18.119 bombing or you know what what have you? I mean, 259 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:21.799 it's we are very privileged and lucky to live in 260 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:24.920 the in the stability of the United States, in America, 261 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:31.359 and I have seen an infuriating appreciation for what that means, 262 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:34.839 the stability. And I've spent much of my life traveling 263 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:40.960 to places where there is you know, instability, and we 264 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:43.200 don't want it. We don't we we don't want it. 265 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:47.319 You know, be thankful for the peace that we have 266 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:51.200 in America, despite our besides, you know, despite our tensions 267 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:56.559 and everything that's been going on, it is always better 268 00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:59.880 to work it out in our houses of government than 269 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:04.839 on the streets. And you know, Ukrainians know this very well, 270 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:09.559 and they know what it means to the to lose 271 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:16.119 the uh, you know, easy comfortable appreciation of these holidays. 272 00:19:16.279 --> 00:19:18.480 You know, they have to they have to really make 273 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:22.839 an effort to to to celebrate these these holidays, and 274 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.359 they do because it's so important to them. I just 275 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:29.960 think as we go into Thanksgiving and the holiday period, 276 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:34.640 you know, Americans should reflect on the fact that this, 277 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.240 this is not a guarantee, none of that, none of 278 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.359 the ease and comfort of being able to get, you know, 279 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:46.039 gather with your loved ones and celebrate. That's there's no 280 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:52.839 guarantee of that. And and it's uh, it's it's something 281 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.240 I think should be appreciated more. And I urge Americans 282 00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:59.079 to to think about the fact that, you know, we're 283 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:01.160 lucky to live the country at peace. 284 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:04.200 I'm so glad you made that point. In a little 285 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:06.119 bit down the road, Well, I want to get your 286 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:09.160 perspective of what's happening here. I'm sure you're aware of 287 00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:14.079 with just recently with the dismissal of charges against Komi, 288 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:17.960 that the whole retribution thing. Anyway, we can get to 289 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.160 that eventually. I want to stay a little bit more 290 00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:25.279 on topic here directly with Ukraine, UH and UH. We 291 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:28.079 we mentioned in the in the beginning, and we talked 292 00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:31.240 a little bit about the points being made so heavily 293 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:35.680 in favor of Russia. Yet Ukraine and Ukrainians seem to 294 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:41.119 align much more closely with American ideals. Yet this administration 295 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.759 seems to continually favor Russia. Do you have any point 296 00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:48.880 of view as to why that might be happening. What's 297 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:49.640 your perspective? 298 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:53.799 Well, I think it's obvious that the Russians have infiltrated 299 00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:58.599 the government. I mean, they're they're inside our body politic 300 00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:03.920 not just in terms of our politicians, you know, even 301 00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:09.839 and including in the oval, in the sense that you know, uh, 302 00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:13.119 the President of the United States believes Vladimir Putin more 303 00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:16.319 than he believes his own intelligence agencies. I mean, that's 304 00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:21.440 that right. There is an indication that Moscow is deep 305 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:28.200 inside our our our society, our civil society, our political society, 306 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:34.519 you know, not not to mention our defense security intelligence. 307 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:40.240 They've been meticulous about it, and they're deep, deep, deep inside, 308 00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:45.680 and that should give us all, you know, real serious 309 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:50.960 cause for concern. And uh, you know, I think that 310 00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:55.200 there are people in the Trump administration, Trump himself included, 311 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:59.400 you know, sentment perhaps setting the example is is that 312 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:05.559 you know, it's it is if it's if it's if 313 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:11.079 it is beneficial to them transactionally, they are perfectly happy 314 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:15.640 to work with people like Vladimir Putin, So all sins 315 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.519 are forgiven as long as they start that oil and 316 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:23.960 that natural gas flowing again or they you know, Putin 317 00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:28.440 praises Trump as as was just recently revealed in this 318 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:32.720 conversation with Steve Whitgoff, who you know clearly is in 319 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:36.480 way over his head as a as a representative to 320 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:40.960 the Kremlin. But you know that there was this leaked, 321 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:45.039 you know, phone call between him and a Russian aid 322 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:48.279 to Putin saying, you know, just flatter him, just going 323 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:52.279 there and flatter them, Flatter, flatter Trump, tell him you 324 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.599 he's a great peacemaker, and tell them all the things 325 00:22:55.599 --> 00:23:01.000 he wants to hear, and you know, will will get 326 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:04.400 a plan through that is beneficial for Russia. I mean, 327 00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:09.559 it is. It is painfully clear that Moscow is deep 328 00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:15.039 inside of our society. Are our power elite. And I'm 329 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:19.119 not just saying politicians there's they're inside the media, They're 330 00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:24.039 inside you know, political parties, not just you know, members 331 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:30.559 who are actually political power, the civil society. They've been 332 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:35.119 at this for quite some time and they're they're very 333 00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:38.279 very good at it. They don't have to invest in 334 00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:45.519 aircraft carriers when they can manipulate foreign policy and make 335 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:48.559 the White House dance to its tune, which is exactly 336 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.680 what they're doing. I mean, the team, the interlocertors with 337 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:57.079 the teams in Russia are a joke. Steve Whitkoff has 338 00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:02.720 no idea what he's doing, you know, you know, Marco 339 00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:06.599 Rubio has always been kind of hawkish about the Russians, 340 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:11.279 but he's not a Russia expert. They you know, where 341 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:14.359 are the guys that have put in twenty thirty years, 342 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:18.480 whether or not in academia, or whether or not in 343 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:22.240 diplomatic circles, who are used to dealing with the Russians 344 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:28.680 and you the Russians are very very difficult adversaries on 345 00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:32.799 the diplomatic stage, and we just don't have anybody that 346 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:38.359 I'm aware of on our team that has any depth 347 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:43.440 of knowledge of the conflict or speaks the language, or 348 00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:47.599 you know, spent years living in the former Soviet Union 349 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:51.920 or working in the former Soviet Union and understand where 350 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:54.839 the you know, where Moscow comes from. None of that, 351 00:24:55.119 --> 00:25:01.039 none of that, and and they're just getting It's it's 352 00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:04.200 like watching a mouse. It's like watching a cat play 353 00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:08.759 with a mouse, and you just it's embarrassing to watch 354 00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:12.759 the American side of things because they're completely outclassed. 355 00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:15.920 What do we do about that? Film, What can we 356 00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:16.480 do about that? 357 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:20.759 We need to hire people back into the State Department, 358 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:28.240 into the Pentagon, into the intelligence community that are Russia experts. 359 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:31.119 You know, we we spent a lot of time fixating 360 00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:36.279 on experts from you know, the Islamic world or the 361 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:43.200 Arabic world, and we had a decent what's called a 362 00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:48.039 Russia desk, it both depending on and at the State Department. 363 00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:54.759 But what happened was in Trump's first term because well, 364 00:25:55.440 --> 00:26:01.359 for one reason or another, the the accepted or the 365 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:05.160 kind of the prevailing idea is that because of the 366 00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:12.319 whole Russia interference scandal that marred his election in twenty sixteen, 367 00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:18.319 that he took out revenge and basically purged the Russia desk, 368 00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:21.680 both in the Pentagon and in the State Department. And 369 00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:26.400 apparently Biden didn't rectify that and rehire people back, but 370 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:29.000 even if he did, Trump would have probably gotten rid 371 00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:36.079 of them. Again. We just are our defenses against Russia 372 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:42.799 have been willfully decimated for a variety of reasons. You know, 373 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:49.440 I think about the announcement that Hexath Pete Hexath made 374 00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:57.160 unilaterally and without you know, any kind of discussion anywhere, 375 00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:00.680 you know, anywhere in the Senate or the Congress, that 376 00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:07.079 they were going to switch off the program that was 377 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:13.359 searching for Russian bots and disinformation campaigns. I mean, why 378 00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:19.880 do that? What benefit is there to that. The Russians, 379 00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:23.599 for a variety of reasons, again, as I say, have 380 00:27:23.720 --> 00:27:29.480 either infiltrated into our body politic into our government, or 381 00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:36.039 another form of infiltration is just having a fellow what's 382 00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:40.640 called a fellow traveler. They believe in the world and 383 00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:43.759 how the world should function in a similar way, and 384 00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:48.519 that is to say, might makes right and the world 385 00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:53.680 should be divvied up into zones of control that obviously, 386 00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:58.160 you know, Europe would fall under Russia's dominion, you know, 387 00:27:58.279 --> 00:28:02.720 the Americas would be the USA, and then Asia would 388 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:08.240 be you know, a part of you know, China's little 389 00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:12.960 sphere of influence. And it's just it's old eighteenth century, 390 00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:17.200 nineteenth century thinking where everything is a game of risk, 391 00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:22.960 and the Russians really believe that, and they find common 392 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:28.319 they find you know, fellow travelers in America. There are 393 00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:32.319 a lot of Americans who also believe that the rule 394 00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:38.240 of law or that you know, soft power can be 395 00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:44.039 as influential as you know, a carrier fleet that you 396 00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:46.480 know heading off wars and that word. And it's a 397 00:28:46.599 --> 00:28:50.200 very you know, they have a very simplistic view of 398 00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:53.599 how the world works. And basically it just is I'm big, 399 00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:55.960 you're small. You do what I tell you what to do, 400 00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:00.000 and you know not to put on rose colored glasses. 401 00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:04.680