WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.680 The Projection Booth podcast is sponsored by Scarecrow Video. Try 2 00:00:03.720 --> 00:00:06.719 out Scarecrow's rent by mail service. Choose from over one 3 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:09.759 hundred and fifty thousand films again, Blu rays, four k's 4 00:00:09.800 --> 00:00:13.839 and DVDs delivered directly to your door. Visit scarecrow dot 5 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:14.960 com today. 6 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:23.039 Oh gez, folks, it's showtime. 7 00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:25.679 People say good mighty to see this movie. 8 00:00:26.039 --> 00:00:28.679 When they go out to a theater, they want clod sodas, 9 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:30.199 hot popcorn in. 10 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:32.320 No monsters in the projection Booth. 11 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:34.320 Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 12 00:00:35.359 --> 00:02:10.120 Cut it off, ud, Welcome to the Projection Booth. 13 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:12.199 I'm your host. Mike White joined me once again as MS. 14 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:14.000 Susan Tekla Kuruglinska. 15 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:17.080 Hey, I'm excited to discuss the most accurate depiction of 16 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:18.280 academia on film. 17 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:21.319 Also back in the booth is MS Beth Akamando. 18 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:25.439 Yes, and I am happy to talk about cannibalism anytime, 19 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:28.360 because anytime I see a cannabis sign, I'm always thinking 20 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:30.479 it says cannibal and then I'm disappointed. 21 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:34.120 We continue Shocked Over twenty twenty five with a look 22 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:39.000 at Julia Decornow's twenty sixteen film Raw The film stars 23 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:43.719 Garan's Marilier as Justine, a freshman at a veterinary school. 24 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:46.800 How do you know she's a vegetarian? Wait five minutes. 25 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:49.080 She will tell you. When she's forced to eat a 26 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:52.039 rabbit kidney, or maybe when she's doused with blood, she 27 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:56.400 begins to feel strange cravings that lead to some interesting places. 28 00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:58.919 We will be discussing that and more as we go 29 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:01.000 through things. So if you don't on anything ruin, please 30 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:03.039 turn off the show and come back after you've seen 31 00:03:03.080 --> 00:03:06.719 the film. We will still be here. Susan, when was 32 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:09.159 the first time you saw raw and what did you think? 33 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:11.879 I know I saw it right when it came out, 34 00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:14.000 because I remember there was a spate of great horror 35 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:15.879 movies where were a Black Coat's Daughter? 36 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:16.039 Like? 37 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:18.000 There was a few things to add, like, I don't 38 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:18.960 remember if I saw it. 39 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:20.360 I don't remember where I sat, but I know I 40 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:22.080 saw it when it came out and hadn't really watched 41 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:24.479 it since, and so it was great. I loved it 42 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:27.599 the first time, and it was I watched it twice 43 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:29.879 before this and loved it absolutely. 44 00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:32.039 I can watch it right now after the we're done talking, 45 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:33.199 I'll watch it. I could watch it again. 46 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:35.960 I loved it, and Beth, how about yourself. 47 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:38.080 Yeah, I saw it when it first came out. I 48 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:40.800 believe sadly I saw it on a screener instead of 49 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:44.199 in a theater for the first time, but I immediately 50 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:47.240 fell in love with it, and in fact, it inspired 51 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:51.120 me to do an entire podcast on what I called 52 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:55.919 gourmet cannibal films. So these are films in which not 53 00:03:56.120 --> 00:04:00.879 just the craft of filmmaking is refined, but the actual 54 00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:04.840 eating of human flesh is not merely done for gore 55 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:08.439 and horror effect. Yeah, I had to switch podcasts at 56 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:10.199 the last minute, and I had just seen Raw, and 57 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:12.520 I said, I'm going to talk to this friend of 58 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:16.160 mine who's a chef and who also loves cannibal films, 59 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:19.360 and he prepped food while we did the interview, so 60 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:22.600 you got to hear him chopping up stuff, and you 61 00:04:22.680 --> 00:04:25.720 talked about food preparation and how that kind of played 62 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:29.600 into these gourmet cannibal films. So films I included Raw 63 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:32.399 on that, but also the cook, the thief, his wife 64 00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:37.399 and her lover ravenous films where it was not just 65 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:42.360 like ripping into human flesh. So I thought it was fabulous. 66 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:45.839 And I do enjoy cannibal films. I think they really 67 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:49.639 get to an interesting level of horror. 68 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:52.079 Yeah. I don't remember the first time I saw this. 69 00:04:52.199 --> 00:04:56.399 I know I didn't see that theater. I remember probably 70 00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:00.240 renting it or maybe illegally downloading it at some point 71 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:04.399 and just absolutely loved it. I haven't gone back to 72 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:07.920 it for I guess nine years in the introm but 73 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:12.079 it really made an impression and I was really glad 74 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:15.319 to be able to program this one this month. And 75 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:18.480 I'm glad that I have you two on here because 76 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.279 last week we talked about In My Skin, and both 77 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:24.079 my co hosts were dudes, and I said, you know, 78 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:27.560 there's nothing better than talking about, you know, women coming 79 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.720 to terms with their own bodies and gaining their power 80 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:34.240 and all of these things with three guys just hanging 81 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:36.920 out on microphone. So I'm glad to be in the 82 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:37.920 minority this week. 83 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:41.879 When you think of cannibals, it almost seems goofy. I 84 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:43.920 actually think of Bugs, Bundy, like you always said that 85 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:48.079 the cartoons. It's such a cartoonish kind of thing, almost humorous, 86 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:50.560 it seemed, And like when I tell people who do 87 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:52.079 not know this movie, I mentioned to a couple of 88 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:54.680 people I was gonna be talking about this, they immediately 89 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:57.600 roll their eyes because it just sounds really corny, and 90 00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:00.120 I don't know, but it's just yeah, like I I 91 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:03.240 really respect that you can wrestle with this topic and 92 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:04.800 make it a really beautiful movie. 93 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:07.800 It's really really a feat to pull off well. 94 00:06:07.879 --> 00:06:10.800 It's so well shot and looks so good, and just 95 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:14.480 the story structure itself is so well put together. I mean, 96 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:17.879 I forgot all about that opening shot with the car 97 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:21.079 coming down the road and that we see that accident 98 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:25.040 happen right off the bat, and just how that plays 99 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:28.079 into later on in the film. And when you see 100 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:31.199 Justine being driven to school for the first time and 101 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:34.319 she's going down a road very much like that, I'm like, oh, 102 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:36.800 is this the car accident we saw earlier? And then 103 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:38.879 it just kind of puts this idea in your mind 104 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:41.040 from the very beginning, that there is danger in the 105 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:43.439 world and you don't know when that danger is going 106 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:46.279 to actually happen. It could have been in the past, 107 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:48.160 it could be in the future. We don't know exactly 108 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:51.079 what's happening. And then that she's being driven to school 109 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:55.079 and her room gets busted open by a guy, ironically enough, 110 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:57.240 holding a ski pole, and I think that's the guy 111 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:01.160 who's going to be her roommate pretty soon. And yeah, 112 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:04.079 just like all of these things where you get little 113 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:06.879 bits and pieces that are going to come back, Like 114 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:09.759 I think the first time you see her sister Alexia, 115 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:12.959 she's flipping her the bird, and I'm like, oh, well, 116 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:15.639 that finger's going to be due for some interesting things 117 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:17.000 later on in this film. 118 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:21.720 I love films that don't tell you everything up front. 119 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:25.040 There's so many movies where you watch the first ten 120 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:28.680 minutes and you pretty much know everything that's going to happen. 121 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:35.000 And what she does is she leaves you with this ambiguity, 122 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:39.759 and it's intriguing, and it also respects our intelligence, saying 123 00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:44.120 that we are capable of piecing things together, and also 124 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:48.519 that we're capable of not being frustrated by not knowing 125 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:52.000 everything about the characters or about what it's going to be. 126 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:55.000 She doesn't define the genre right away or who these 127 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:57.920 people are, or what this first scene we see is 128 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:02.040 all about. And I just really appreciate that in filmmaking 129 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:05.319 because I don't want to be talked down to, and 130 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:06.360 she never does. 131 00:08:06.199 --> 00:08:08.639 That, and because it's got those layers. 132 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:11.319 It's really fun to rewatch it, to watch it like 133 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:12.920 twice in a row, because then you go back and 134 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:15.240 you see these little bits of dialogue detail that just 135 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:19.199 she obviously really thought to place perfectly in these perfect 136 00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:21.639 little places that would lead to something else, like a 137 00:08:21.639 --> 00:08:24.560 lot of little comments between the sisters where Alex is 138 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:27.600 going up, I helped you when I just shove that 139 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:30.000 kidney down your throat and she's no, you didn't, and 140 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.159 you're just like, it's such a little casual bit of dialogue, 141 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:35.559 but it's so significant, like after you've you know how 142 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:37.120 this all works out well. 143 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:41.840 And also with the vegetarian reference, you're vegetarian too, and 144 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:45.240 she's no, I'm not. Have you not been paying attention? No? 145 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:48.039 And there's lovely visual cues, like you mentioned the flipping 146 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:51.080 off of the finger, and it's not just what happens 147 00:08:51.080 --> 00:08:54.960 to that finger, but it's also that almost end image 148 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:58.000 when in the prison where you get this reflection and 149 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:01.440 again they're like making this joke with which is the 150 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:05.000 missing finger the one she can flip you off with the. 151 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:07.399 Look of this film is so good. I love the 152 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:10.200 veterinary school that she goes to, which just has this 153 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:16.159 brutalist architecture and is the strangest looking veterinary school ever. 154 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:19.759 Like you said, like she won't just explain something, and 155 00:09:19.799 --> 00:09:22.200 she doesn't explain it to us, and she doesn't necessarily 156 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:26.200 explain it to Justine either. Justina is a great person 157 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:29.399 for us to be following because she is as clueless 158 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:31.080 as we are when it comes to so many of 159 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:34.799 these things, like being taken from her dorm room and 160 00:09:34.840 --> 00:09:37.279 thrown out into the hall. And then you get that 161 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:41.120 cut to all of the students that are crawling up 162 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:45.679 over these mattresses and crawling through these corridors and just 163 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:50.320 this slow hand and nive crawl that they're doing, and 164 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:52.679 you're like, what the hell is going on? They look 165 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:55.399 like a whole bunch of cattle being taken to the slaughter. 166 00:09:55.759 --> 00:09:59.240 Yes, it totally reminds me of that. I know. I 167 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:01.600 listened to her commentary track and she was talking about it. 168 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:04.720 She wanted them to look like insects, but for me, 169 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:09.080 it was much more like cattle being put into slaughter. 170 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:13.159 And you were waiting for that the device that haaveyar 171 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:17.679 Bard deem uses no country for old men to kill them. 172 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:23.240 It was just such a bizarre and disorienting shot. You 173 00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:25.200 really don't know where they are. It's almost like a 174 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:28.960 sci fi look to it. Also, it doesn't have a 175 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:35.000 specific timeframe or location really, but it was that was 176 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:38.360 just a fabulous way to take us into that world. 177 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:42.000 Starts with someone crawling in that kind of Japanese harorway 178 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:44.440 that you see like and that was it the ring 179 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:46.000 that she comes out of the TV. But you kind 180 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:47.559 of see that a lot in Japanese hard this kind 181 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:50.919 of insect like crawling forward of a ghost or something. 182 00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:53.919 And then she has a point where someone's licking someone's eye. 183 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:55.960 She has a lot of little Japanese touches like just 184 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:57.799 here and there, like she'll do these a lot of 185 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:00.600 great movie references, like you can't help thinking other babes 186 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:02.440 obviously as you're watching this, which. 187 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:05.679 Is so great too, things like well, even with the 188 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:07.919 car crash that we see later on, I was thinking 189 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:11.399 of Weekend, you know, very similar road. Of course, there's 190 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:15.360 the big Carrie reference when they're doused with blood. Even 191 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:18.519 when she's eating raw meat, I was thinking of Rosemary's Baby. 192 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:21.799 I'm like, oh, yeah, this is just steeped in film references. 193 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:26.480 But it's steeped in film references where it's not that 194 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:29.440 like nudge, nudge, wink wink, look at what I'm doing. 195 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:32.279 You can watch the whole movie and not catch a 196 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:36.960 single one of those and it still plays fine. And again, 197 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:40.360 I just like her subtlety. She doesn't try to call 198 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:42.480 attention to some of that stuff, but. 199 00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:43.200 It's all there. 200 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:45.200 And like you said, this is a film you can 201 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:49.120 keep rewatching and you keep finding new things in it, 202 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:51.399 and that's one of the things that's so exciting about it. 203 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:54.120 And just those little blink and you miss at moments 204 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:58.600 like when they turn this the initiation into a big 205 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:02.440 party and and you see a guy with the girl 206 00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:05.000 and he's about to make out with her, and it 207 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:06.960 looks like he takes something and puts it in her mouth, 208 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:09.159 and I'm just like, Okay, is that ecstasy or is 209 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:11.799 that like a Roofye, Like, I don't know what this is, 210 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:14.000 but she just accepts whatever it is that he puts 211 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:14.559 in her mouth. 212 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:15.519 Yeah. 213 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:20.080 Incredible detail, like just incredible background people and incredible of course, 214 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:23.519 little punctuating actors like the guy at the gas station 215 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:28.360 and the crazy smiling demon in the hospital room when 216 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:31.879 they're when they're getting her in the hospital, her finger 217 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:37.279 after her finger incident. She just places these really interesting characters, 218 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:40.480 little interesting details to just put you on edge. 219 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:42.679 And also the nurse is another great one. Obviously. 220 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:46.080 She talked about the fact she called these her Island characters, 221 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:49.080 like they only exist in one scene, and they're kind 222 00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:53.360 of like these harbingers of something that's coming, Like each 223 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:57.320 one kind of gives her a warning about something or 224 00:12:57.399 --> 00:13:00.799 talks about something that's going to come up later. But yeah, 225 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:03.600 they're great characters. You could pull each one of them 226 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:07.519 out and make a little movie separately to each of them. 227 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:10.200 Yeah, and anything they say has nothing to do with 228 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:10.639 the movie. 229 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:13.480 Like the guy at the truck stop who's holding his 230 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:17.120 ear in such an eerie way. He's like making Aiden 231 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:19.799 feel very uncomfortable in a sexual way, but he's I 232 00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:21.600 forget what he's talking about pigs or he has a 233 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:24.120 pig in his truck or something. And then the nurse 234 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:27.360 is they're stuck in about an old student who is overweight, 235 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:30.159 and I have a feel like that's a nod to 236 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:33.879 obviously the growing up thing and being in a female 237 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:37.200 growing up and how oppressive it can be. But it's 238 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:41.279 so sideways and it just what's nice is it gives you, 239 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:42.120 It takes you out. 240 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:43.240 Of the movie for a split second. 241 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:46.440 In a way, it makes them to be not overwhelming 242 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:49.000 because you take these little, tiny side trips every once. 243 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:49.279 In a while. 244 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:52.399 It does tie in because talking about the pig, and 245 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:56.080 it's like how close it is to humans and this 246 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:00.120 notion of issue losing her humanity by turning in to 247 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:04.399 a cannibal or is she just becoming more animalistic? There's 248 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:07.519 part of that. And then the nurse, it's so much 249 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:12.600 of that conversation is about growing up, about body image, 250 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:17.720 about how perceptions of people impact the way they behave 251 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:21.840 and the way they're perceived. So like each of those things, 252 00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:24.679 and the little demon guy at the hospital, My god, 253 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:28.200 he was so good. But it's like, first he seems 254 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:33.440 totally creepy and then he seems funny and inviting and 255 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:37.480 almost like welcoming her in a weird sort of way, 256 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:41.799 and her reaction to it is she just doesn't seem 257 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:46.399 to know how to take him. But all those characters 258 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:50.279 were just so rich in just single scenes. 259 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:54.679 Well, the thing with the guy at the truck stop, 260 00:14:55.279 --> 00:15:00.399 isn't her roommate who eventually becomes her lover a is 261 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:04.679 that his name right. He talks about how like how 262 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:06.840 gross it is the way that she was eating, and 263 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.600 that really turns off a guy, and then she uses 264 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:12.039 that against the truck driver in order is she just 265 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:14.759 starts stuffing her face after a while, Like when he's 266 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:17.919 talking to them and starting to get really super creepy, 267 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:20.799 she just starts stuffing her face. And it's like, oh, yeah, 268 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:22.639 I don't want to be around this girl because she's 269 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:26.720 eating so disgustingly. Yeah, there's little things like you know, 270 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:30.519 you've mentioned pigs, there's a cow, there's horses, there's a dog, 271 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:34.480 very prominent in this whole film as well. I like though, too, 272 00:15:34.519 --> 00:15:37.639 that when they're at that opening party, that there's a 273 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:41.120 lamb with a electrical cord around its neck, this kind 274 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:42.679 of sacrificial image. 275 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:45.039 It's creepy. It's really creepy. 276 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:47.919 Yeah, And I don't think they talk very much about 277 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:50.600 how she's a virgin as well. I mean, not only 278 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:54.399 is she getting this first taste of meat and this 279 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:56.639 whole new life that is coming out for her, but 280 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.440 she's also sexually awakening. I mean, I think the two 281 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:00.639 really go hand in hand. 282 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:03.440 It's a first for her for so many things. She's 283 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:05.919 going to college for the first time. She's in this 284 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.440 environment that's brand new. She's a virgin, she's going to 285 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:13.200 try human flesh for the first time. There's so much 286 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:14.200 there that. 287 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:16.919 As you do when you're a freshman, right. 288 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:20.799 I think a really interesting theme is she has zero 289 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.679 control over anything, which is very like adolescent through emerging 290 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:28.120 adult age group. It's like she is going to the 291 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:30.440 same college that her parents went to and that her 292 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:33.639 sister went to. She's forced to make out with that 293 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:35.720 guy in the closet, like she's forced to wear certain 294 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:37.600 clothes that her sister gives her. 295 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:39.320 They'd make her wear a diaper. They're telling her what 296 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:39.840 to wear. 297 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:43.080 The hazing is completely in complete control over them, how 298 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:43.799 she's sleeping. 299 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:46.480 The professor tells her, I don't care how good you are. 300 00:16:46.679 --> 00:16:50.120 I don't like you. She has what she's eating. 301 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:52.639 She has no control over anything, and I think that's 302 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.840 really I think they that she hits the director hits 303 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:59.000 Julia hits that really really hard, that she has zero 304 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:03.399 control and she ends up in a trap. The intention 305 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:07.559 was that she's morally overcoming this thing that her sister 306 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:10.680 wasn't able to overcome. But still I find it very sad. 307 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:14.079 In the end, that she's really been trapped into this thing. 308 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:16.920 I'm not so sure I would define it as lack 309 00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:20.240 of control as much as just she's it's just being 310 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:22.759 young and being this kind of blank slate, like she 311 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:27.920 doesn't have a lot of experiences to guide her or 312 00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:31.640 to even make her think about choices that she might have. 313 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:36.720 So I feel like she's this empty receptacle that's receiving 314 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:40.240 all this information and all this stuff, and the progress 315 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:44.799 is her finally like making some choices, even though some 316 00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:49.440 of them aren't completely in her control. That also brings 317 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:51.640 up like the sins of the parents brought down on 318 00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:55.240 the sins of their child. But yeah, I mean, it 319 00:17:55.240 --> 00:18:00.359 seems like she just keeps having these weird experiences that 320 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:03.680 she has to kind of file away and do something 321 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:08.680 with and make decisions about what they all mean. And 322 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:14.359 in her particular case, she's got some very difficult complicating factors. 323 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:18.039 The whole idea of her sister being part of this 324 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:22.119 school and being there as this hazing ritual is going on, 325 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:24.599 and it feels like, is this hazing going on for 326 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:26.960 the first full year or is it the first full week? 327 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:29.200 I mean, how it's a week I think Yeah. 328 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:30.799 This whole timeline is so compressed. 329 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:34.200 Then, so one of the things I will say about, 330 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:36.920 like the whole hazing and the you talked about her 331 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.000 being forced to dress a certain way because they tell so. 332 00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:45.200 KPBS is on the San Diego State campus and when 333 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:47.880 I used to work late at night, I used to 334 00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:52.119 see all the sorority and fraternity people coming back from 335 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:55.200 parties or going to parties. And one of the things 336 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:58.119 that always baffled me was I would see like this 337 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:03.240 large group of women all dressed exactly the same. One 338 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.839 night would be short black dress day, the other night 339 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:11.000 would be short shorts in boots, the other night would 340 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.759 be flappers. And like, I've always been baffled by fraternities 341 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:20.960 and sororities because the idea of conformity is probably as 342 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:26.160 horrific as cannibalism. To me, it's just something I don't understand. 343 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:29.200 And then if I was there really late at the 344 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:31.920 end of the night, if it was like midnight or 345 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:35.240 two am or something, I would see the same procession 346 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:39.599 at night, which was always the women with their stiletto 347 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:42.960 heels slung over their shoulder being carried by two other 348 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:47.960 girls or a couple guys. And throwing up in places, 349 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:53.799 and it was like, I don't understand this desire to 350 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:57.160 be part of a group that asks you to conform, 351 00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:00.880 and hazing is part of this too. It's a sense 352 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:02.960 like we are going to put you, like the elders 353 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:06.559 are going to put you through this particular ringer that 354 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:09.640 we've designed because we've been through it before, and we're 355 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:12.880 going to pass it on to you and with like 356 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:18.160 trying to teach her this obedience in this conformity that honestly, 357 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:21.640 that is as terrifying to me as anything else in 358 00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:26.680 the film, Like the whole hazing and stuff is just scary. 359 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:30.160 The decision is do you want to dress like it's 360 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.799 a party time? Basically, do you want to dress like 361 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:34.720 a slut or do you want to dress like a baby. 362 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:36.519 We can put you in a diaper or we can 363 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:39.119 put you in a short black dress, one or the other. 364 00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:43.119 You can make that a reference of women's oppression, like 365 00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:46.680 you're either infantilized or you're a slug. But and I 366 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:48.839 think she definitely talks about that when you hear her 367 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:52.079 interviewed about that, she's it's very much a feminist intentionally. 368 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:54.319 But I do think though. 369 00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:58.079 It is it is a really great choice cultural choice 370 00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:02.039 of a nightmare situation. I agree, I find that idea 371 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.599 terrifying to be in a fraternity or to me that 372 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:07.680 is that's terrifying, and it's a really great choice to 373 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:10.279 be in this claustrophobic school. But you could see it's 374 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.400 in the middle of nowhere and with this again this 375 00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:18.759 art brutalist, like this really gray background and it's depressing 376 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:23.480 and dank and concrete, and then just the extremes. You 377 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:25.960 don't know what these people are going to force you 378 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:28.200 to do, and it is it's like a Saw movie. 379 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:31.559 It's just like it's like a realistic Saw movie. That's 380 00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:34.599 really what it's like. And I also just want to point. 381 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:36.240 Out that one of the amazing things in this movie 382 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:38.440 is that all of the animal stuff is one hundred 383 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:42.519 percent real, including the freakizoid in the jars, the little 384 00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:45.839 freaky those are all real. That's totally, every single thing 385 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:47.759 in this movie is one hundred percent real, which makes 386 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:49.400 it so cool. 387 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:52.519 Though not real kidneys that they eat. Those are some 388 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.720 sort of jelly stuff covered by chocolate, so I was 389 00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.519 glad that they didn't make them actually eat kidneys. Though 390 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:01.200 with it being France, I was like, well, maybe that's 391 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:02.279 a delicacy. I don't know. 392 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:06.920 We use only the choicest, juicy chunks of fresh cornish rams, bladder. 393 00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:10.359 Empted, steamed, flavored with sesame seeds, whipped into a fondu 394 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:12.279 and garnished with larks vomited. 395 00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:14.799 You were talking about the sins of the father, the 396 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:18.359 sins of the parents being visited upon the daughters, and 397 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:20.440 this whole idea of you know, if I went through this, 398 00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:24.440 so do you. It feels at times, not necessarily like 399 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:27.440 a cannibal movie, but almost like a vampire film. When 400 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:29.880 it comes to this idea of the hunger that they 401 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:32.480 have for the flesh and the way that it's been 402 00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:36.119 passed down from generation to generation. It's like, how far 403 00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:39.440 back does this go? Does this go back to medieval 404 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.920 times or earlier? Is this like a different race of people? 405 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:46.160 I mean, it's very fascinating to me to think about 406 00:22:46.519 --> 00:22:49.960 how this came to be, and that it feels very 407 00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:54.039 much like, oh, once the hunger is awakened via that kidney, 408 00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:57.920 then that's it. That's all she wrote. Otherwise it was 409 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:02.160 strict vegetarianism. You really have to adhere to this until 410 00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:05.119 you get to go to the school and then suddenly 411 00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:07.119 you get that taste for human flesh. 412 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.400 And also it seems like it's passed down from mother 413 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:16.759 to daughter. He is more the obviously she feeds off 414 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:20.319 of him in a certain way, the mother, And I'm 415 00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:22.720 not sure that the one thing I wasn't completely sure 416 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:26.759 of is the scars, if that was from their initial 417 00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:31.240 like courtship quote unquote, or if that was something that 418 00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:34.480 has been going on over time. Does she have to 419 00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:38.319 feed on him on a regular basis in order to 420 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:42.519 not go out and kill other people. It's this very 421 00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:47.119 female thing that's being passed on and he's just trying 422 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:50.720 to help in the best way he can. So that 423 00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:54.359 was interesting, And you mentioned vampires, but there's times when 424 00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:58.079 it also feels like it's more of a werewolf story 425 00:23:58.119 --> 00:24:03.480 because she goes through that sort of physical transformation of 426 00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:07.480 the rashes and stuff and the peeling off of her 427 00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:10.480 skin when she goes to the doctor, and so that 428 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:14.319 feels kind of like that werewolf transformation into something else. 429 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:18.240 And also were wolves tend to be to me anyway, 430 00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:22.640 more of these tragic figures where they don't have control 431 00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:25.319 over what they're doing, they don't necessarily want to be 432 00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:30.160 werewolves vampires. While some people may be turned into vampires 433 00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:33.079 against their will, there is a sense that a lot 434 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:35.440 of times you get vampires who are part of this 435 00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:42.440 ruling class or who have been berthed into this aristocracy 436 00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:46.359 of some kind. So there's a certain level where I 437 00:24:46.359 --> 00:24:49.319 feel like it's almost more of a werewolf story for 438 00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:53.119 me than vampire, although visually and kind of like what 439 00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:57.240 she's doing feels a little more vampiric. But yeah, I 440 00:24:57.319 --> 00:24:59.960 kept thinking about tragic werewolves. 441 00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:03.240 I can totally see that, especially you know, I don't 442 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:06.039 remember which one of you brought up the animalistic aspect 443 00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:10.039 of this, And you know, there's that scene pretty early 444 00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:12.519 in the movie where there's the guy talking about fucking 445 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:16.559 monkeys and getting AIDS and all this, and she really 446 00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:19.200 falls on the side of the monkeys, and it's just 447 00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:22.119 like she seems to identify more with the monkeys than 448 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:24.799 with the people, and it's like, Okay, yeah, I can 449 00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:28.039 kind of see where she does have this much more 450 00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:31.319 animalistic side, and yet sometimes it feels like that hunger 451 00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:35.079 for her is completely uncontrollable, and I really think that 452 00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:38.000 that's great. I think that the werewolf angle is much 453 00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:41.160 more in tune than the vampire angle. And yeah, I've 454 00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:44.359 seen that whole dichotomy of vampires and werewolves. You know, 455 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:47.039 I've seen all the Underworld films, so I definitely know 456 00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:49.680 how all that stuff goes. Though I still think that 457 00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:53.839 werewolves are really shitty bodyguards for vampires because you only 458 00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:56.759 get them like once a month. Well, and also with 459 00:25:56.839 --> 00:25:59.240 the werewolf thing, I mean the whole lunar cycle too, 460 00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:01.920 when it comes to women and their cycles and things, 461 00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:04.279 and just this whole idea of you know, is this 462 00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:08.200 the awakening of the blood, you know, the blood being 463 00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:11.400 such an important part of that ritual. When they get 464 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:14.559 all the blood dumped on her, I mean we mentioned 465 00:26:14.599 --> 00:26:18.079 Carrie already, Carrie very similar, you know, she was what 466 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:22.799 seventeen virgin getting that blood dumped on her, I mean 467 00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:25.079 it just really opened up her whole world. 468 00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:28.160 In both of those cases, that was real animal blood, 469 00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:31.599 like in Carrie, they killed those pigs and that this 470 00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:34.279 veterinary school was going to have the real thing to 471 00:26:34.359 --> 00:26:37.000 pour on them. But I wanted to just get back 472 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:39.240 to the family thing again, and like the female family 473 00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:41.359 thing is, I thought it was a really nice touch 474 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:44.960 that they Alex is not talking to. 475 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:46.200 Her mother, but the mother. 476 00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:48.720 It's implied she's not talking to either parent, but it 477 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:50.759 seems like it's much more the mother. And I think 478 00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:54.000 it's interesting that she maybe really resents her mother forgetting 479 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:57.839 her to be this kind of being. And then I 480 00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:01.519 wonder if she teases her sister that, oh, they you're 481 00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:02.200 the special one. 482 00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:04.839 They love you, You're the favorite one. 483 00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:07.519 And the mother is like when they're in that diner 484 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:09.200 as they're driving to the school and one of the 485 00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:12.920 first scenes, Justine actually accidentally gets a little meat in 486 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.839 her potatoes, and the mother's really upset and she's just 487 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.279 gonna tear the head off of the whoever the cook is. 488 00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:21.799 And it's interesting that she's so protective of Justin. 489 00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:24.799 So you wonder, I wondered, were they trying to protect 490 00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:28.400 Justine from this? But they sacrifice the older daughter, and 491 00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:30.319 that's why the older daughter's pissed up, and that's why 492 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:31.839 the older daughters f this. 493 00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:33.720 I'm gonna make You're gonna be You're gonna have to 494 00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:35.920 suffer the way I did. She's such a villain. 495 00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:38.759 There's a love hate relationship, but it's way more hate 496 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:41.799 on her end to her sister than it's a real 497 00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:42.920 great villain role. 498 00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:45.599 I'm not sure I see her as a villain for 499 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.240 the reason I think where they're having that fight at 500 00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:52.519 the end and they're both biting into each other, and 501 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:57.519 there's like this connection. Anytime you're in a family, there's 502 00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:00.960 love and hate all the time. Probably, Yeah, I'm not 503 00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:04.880 sure I see her as a villain. She's a victim herself. 504 00:28:05.079 --> 00:28:07.640 She's got this curse on her that she's had to 505 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:09.319 live with and she's had to figure out a way 506 00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:09.799 to do it. 507 00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:13.279 She shoved that kidney down her throat, like they seem 508 00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:15.799 to be like whatever. They were like, oh, if you're 509 00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:18.559 a vegetarian, but she's like, no, no, you're gonna eat 510 00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:21.160 this thing. And I thought that was a all sign 511 00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:24.039 of she's gonna make sure this happens. And I think 512 00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:26.240 it could have been. It seemed to me maybe it 513 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:28.079 could have been prevented. I don't know, that's just it 514 00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:29.759 is a matter of interpretation. 515 00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:33.640 But she also, like Justine, does not seem like one 516 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:37.200 hundred percent on board with the vegetarianism. Like when she's 517 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:41.279 at that restaurant and the mother gets upset, it's not 518 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:43.680 a big deal to her, Like she doesn't seem to 519 00:28:43.720 --> 00:28:47.200 care that much. She doesn't seem to be as driven 520 00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:51.319 at that point about oh it's okay, I had a 521 00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:53.240 piece of meat in my mouth. It doesn't really matter, 522 00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:56.240 don't make a big scene. But the mother does want 523 00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:59.480 to make a big scene. She does when she's away 524 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:03.240 from her mind, she does try to make that statement, 525 00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:05.200 I can't eat that I'm a vegetarian. 526 00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:07.119 But I don't know. 527 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:09.400 Yeah, I just I think the film. For me, the 528 00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:14.000 film feels more complex than just labeling alex as a villain. 529 00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:16.119 Like I just don't see her like one hundred percent 530 00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:19.039 in that role, even though she does some things that 531 00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:23.000 are questionable, but maybe it's her way of doing tough love. 532 00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:26.279 They're subtle about her being a village. So I just 533 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:28.279 I see it a little differently. But yeah, it's I 534 00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:28.960 think it's. 535 00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.240 Cool that you don't come away with that so much, 536 00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:33.440 except you do see her in the end in a 537 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:34.039 trap there. 538 00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:35.759 But I don't know. 539 00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:38.680 I think again, it's just beautiful the way she portrayed 540 00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:39.279 the sister thing. 541 00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:40.519 I think that was a great choice. 542 00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:44.279 She says in interviews that she originally was not going 543 00:29:44.359 --> 00:29:46.440 to have a family, familial thing. It was going to 544 00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:49.319 be like another woman who maybe she had a relationship with, 545 00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:52.559 maybe even a romantic relationship with. But it is brilliant 546 00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.920 to do sisters because it's so love it's so like 547 00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:59.240 she She kind of comments the reason she chose it 548 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:00.880 was that they could try to kill each other and 549 00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:02.960 then put their arms around each other and nobody would 550 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:05.720 question that, because that's the way it is with sisters. 551 00:30:05.799 --> 00:30:09.680 Yeah, the familial aspect you know about it reminds me 552 00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:12.400 of that other film. I can't remember the title. We 553 00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:17.480 Are What We Are. It's the American remake of the 554 00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:21.000 Mexican film about the family. The family feels very kind 555 00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:26.359 of Quaker or something, but they eat human flesh and 556 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:32.240 they have these lovely little dinner scenes where they're eating 557 00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:35.720 this human flesh. But there's this very sense, this very 558 00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:38.400 strong sense of family and that they have to keep 559 00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:41.920 doing this and they have to stay together and this 560 00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:45.279 is what they've always done. And there's a little bit 561 00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:49.440 of that film that kind of reminds me of this one, 562 00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:51.880 just in terms of kind of that family structure as 563 00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:56.400 something that's strong, that tries to be strong and tight 564 00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:00.160 knit and to try and keep them all safe by 565 00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:06.240 keeping that group enclosed. And it's when one of that 566 00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:09.680 group finds out what's going on or questions what's going 567 00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:14.519 on that that family structure can fall apart and on 568 00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:18.599 a certain level can cause danger in a certain way. 569 00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:22.160 But yeah, that sense of family structure I think is great. 570 00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.559 I love that as Laurent Lucas playing the father because 571 00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:28.640 we just talked about him last week when we talked 572 00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:31.119 about in My Skin and he was the kind of 573 00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:34.839 shithead boyfriend Vincennes and it's kind of nice to see 574 00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:37.559 him back here and with all these big bites out 575 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:39.720 of him. I'm just like, oh, okay, it's not the 576 00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:44.079 same woman that would have you know, she was much 577 00:31:44.119 --> 00:31:46.920 more into eating herself than she was into eating him. 578 00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:49.000 But we definitely talked about what would it be like 579 00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:52.599 if she had decided to eat him instead, And here 580 00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:55.200 we get to kind of see it. And a beautiful, 581 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:58.680 loving relationship has come forth with two beautiful girls. 582 00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:02.559 And he says, never don't have two girls. It's too 583 00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:03.400 much trouble. 584 00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:07.000 He says that to his younger daughter, meaning we shouldn't 585 00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:07.359 have had you. 586 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:09.759 Yes, what do you guys think of the there's that 587 00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:13.799 sequence after she wakes up and finds that horrific rash 588 00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:17.680 across her and it's almost like the dream sequence, but 589 00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:20.720 we see the dream after she wakes up of the 590 00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:25.279 horse that's on that treadmill running in slow motion. I 591 00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:29.000 love that imagery. It looks so beautiful, but I keep 592 00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:32.799 trying to figure out what that means in relation to her. 593 00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:35.480 The worst is kind of like it's on a treadmill, 594 00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:39.039 so it's trapped and it can't horses, Like what animal 595 00:32:39.079 --> 00:32:41.519 loves to run more than a horse? Like none, there's none, 596 00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:44.319 that's it, Like horses love to run more than any animal. 597 00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:46.680 And it's on a treadmill, so it can't go anywhere, 598 00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:49.359 and then they have like harnesses around it. 599 00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:52.720 So I think it is that just being being trapped. 600 00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:56.519 Being on a treadmill also suggests no progress, like you're 601 00:32:56.519 --> 00:33:00.680 not going anywhere. In addition to being trapped, it's it's 602 00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:05.720 also no forward progress. And we also saw the horse 603 00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:10.359 a horse earlier that was going in for an operation, 604 00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:14.920 and so they take this big, powerful, huge horse and 605 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:18.960 sedated it collapses in this tiny little room, and again 606 00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:22.319 that's another sense of being trapped in this small space. 607 00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:25.640 And I read that the horse was actually going in 608 00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:30.240 to be castrated, so it wasn't dead. So again like 609 00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:34.000 the horse images. Each time we've seen the horse, they're 610 00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:39.039 these like big, beautiful, powerful animals. But that's not how 611 00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:43.119 they're being depicted in the film. Thank god they didn't 612 00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:44.200 dissect them too. 613 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:47.400 We see a lot of dead animals, We see dead dogs, 614 00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:51.200 and they are dissecting and but it's it's this great 615 00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:54.440 irony that there's meat everywhere, Like if you were if 616 00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:56.480 you were a kind of person who like had craved 617 00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:00.240 like animal meat, it's just meat as far as I could, like, 618 00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:02.119 you just have his endless meat. 619 00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:04.400 But what they created as human meat. 620 00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:07.880 So it's this interesting contrast, like irony, ironic contrast. 621 00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:10.480 Yeah, but do you really want to eat animals that 622 00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:12.519 you dissect that might be filled with what are they 623 00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:16.360 fill them with? To like from aldehyde? Like I would 624 00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:18.239 say that if I was like an animal, I would 625 00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:19.840 sniff that and go no, no, no no. 626 00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:22.559 Well they have a lot of live animals there too, 627 00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:25.280 Like when she walks into a classroom and there's a cow. 628 00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:26.880 Just standing right there, pregnant cow. 629 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:29.639 Yeah, Or when she goes to see her sister later 630 00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:34.280 on and her sister is shoulder deep inside of a cow. 631 00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:37.159 It's like, oh boy, I remember when I was in England, 632 00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:40.440 the first time. The person I was staying with was 633 00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:43.480 watching some sort of medical show and sure enough, they're 634 00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:45.360 just reaching inside of this cow. That was the first 635 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:47.679 time I had ever seen that type of image. I 636 00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:49.480 was like, you got to be kidding me, what the 637 00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:52.960 hell is going on here? That's you know, BBC one 638 00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:54.400 nine o'clock at night. I'm like, whoa. 639 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:57.119 And also the thing is you were not sure what 640 00:34:57.159 --> 00:35:00.960 she's doing at first, and it the past when I've 641 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:03.480 seen something like that, it's been to help a cow, 642 00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:07.719 like birth a calf, and they're helping to pull out, 643 00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:10.639 and it wasn't It was like she's pulling shit out 644 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:18.360 and removing some obstruction. So it's like the kind of grittiest, grungiest, 645 00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:21.079 dirtiest way to be inside that cow. 646 00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:24.480 I love the two mirror scenes that we have, like 647 00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:28.239 when she does get called out for not dressing you know, 648 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:32.119 nightclub or sexy, and her sister puts that dress on 649 00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:34.199 her in the and she's looking at herself in the 650 00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:37.199 mirror and she's got her regular clothes on with this 651 00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:39.880 stress on over it. And then you get that moment 652 00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:42.920 later on in the film where she's dancing in front 653 00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:45.119 of the mirror with a different It might be. 654 00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:48.440 The same dress as the one, but she is so. 655 00:35:48.559 --> 00:35:50.880 Self possessed at that moment, the way that she starts 656 00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:54.599 making out with herself in the mirror and that fucking 657 00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:58.119 amazing song that is playing at that time, that rap, 658 00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:00.920 And I'm so glad that they translated those lyrics because 659 00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:02.119 those are fucking wise. 660 00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:04.159 And the other thing about the mirrors is when she 661 00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:06.800 has that conversation early on in the film about the 662 00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:09.800 monkeys and they say, oh, you think monkeys deserve the 663 00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:12.840 same rights as humans, And her point is they can 664 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:15.719 see themselves in a mirror, so they're self aware. 665 00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:17.320 So we have all. 666 00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:20.760 These mirror images throughout the film. I don't know if 667 00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:24.599 those are the moments when she wants us to think 668 00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:29.480 about how self aware is Justine, How self aware is 669 00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:32.159 she about where she is in this weird evolution that 670 00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:37.880 she's going through, and is she human in her self 671 00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:42.320 awareness or has she become more like animalistic like the monkeys, 672 00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:45.159 who can recognize themselves in the mirror but maybe don't 673 00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:48.880 have the same self awareness that a human being has. 674 00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:50.639 But yeah, I thought the fact that she brings up 675 00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:55.000 those mirrors right early on makes you think about that. 676 00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:58.199 And what happens right after that mirror scene, she's wearing 677 00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:00.719 her sister's dress, and now she's like really wearing her 678 00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:05.159 sister's dress, and she's then they show her in there's 679 00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:07.880 a sort of a party scene, and she's just got 680 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:10.119 that Kubrick stare right, she's. 681 00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:12.800 Got her head down and she's got the Kubrick stair. 682 00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:15.360 She's sitting there like an animal, Like, she really looks 683 00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:17.440 like an animal there. And then the next thing that 684 00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:21.119 happens is it turns out her sister tricked her, right, 685 00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:23.840 and she was really really drunk, and I think it's 686 00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:26.000 I think I'm saying the sequence right. That's when her 687 00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:29.119 sister filmed her because she was so drunk she didn't 688 00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:31.360 know what she was doing. Films her with a corpse 689 00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:34.119 and is making her beg like an animal on her 690 00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:36.280 hands and knees, beg like an animal for this corpse. 691 00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:39.519 And then the sister shows this to everybody, which again 692 00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:43.719 is the sister in control and humilitating her and anyway, 693 00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:45.599 so again she's turning into an animal. 694 00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:46.159 For sure. 695 00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:49.920 It's just thwarted. She's still in control of her sister. 696 00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:52.760 She has no control over anything. So it's very sad. 697 00:37:53.159 --> 00:37:57.119 Domesticated on a leash, all those kind of things you could. 698 00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:01.400 Say technically in the sisters defense, technically I will say 699 00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:03.440 she did not film it and share it. It was 700 00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:06.559 other people in the crowd. And there's even one person who, 701 00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:11.000 like some guy walks away, going, this girl is too drunk. 702 00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:14.519 You guys shouldn't you shouldn't be filming. And I mean 703 00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:17.679 the sister's definitely at fault for doing that too. 704 00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:18.840 She's doing it. 705 00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:21.920 She's doing yeah, she's doing it. And for everybody's got phones. 706 00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:24.480 Everybody knows that's gonna be fun, you know what I mean, 707 00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:27.760 It's yeah, And I think it was really incredibly cruel. 708 00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:31.079 Just think about her doing that to her sister. It 709 00:38:31.159 --> 00:38:34.280 is just, Yeah, I thought it was. It was quite wicked. 710 00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:36.559 And in that scene you talk about when she's at 711 00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:40.960 the at the party, it's also that red theme that 712 00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:44.360 goes through it. She's got that Kubrick stare, but it's 713 00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:48.239 also got this red wash of light and it really 714 00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:50.440 the thing I kept thinking when I saw her at 715 00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:53.599 that point is like she has now become the predatory animal. 716 00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:56.199 She has transformed at this point. 717 00:38:56.559 --> 00:39:00.400 Yes, she looks like she is a dog in that scene, 718 00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:02.960 and I am just so glad that this film didn't 719 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:05.920 go there. When it came to the dog and the 720 00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:08.960 Brazilian wax, I really thought for sure that that was 721 00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:11.400 going to happen in this movie, and I was really 722 00:39:11.480 --> 00:39:15.480 glad that it didn't. But got that Brazilian wax scene. 723 00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:19.039 Wouldn't you trim first before you put on the wax, 724 00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:21.400 because she's got a lot of hair there. 725 00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:24.159 And I think it makes it harder if you trim. 726 00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:27.159 I don't know what hurts is just the hair coming out, 727 00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:30.760 whether it's long or short, I think. But yeah, the 728 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:32.960 dog going there though, would have been in the Japanese 729 00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:33.760 anime what was it? 730 00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:34.239 Gance? 731 00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:36.000 They have a name for the. 732 00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:36.480 Dog, what is it? 733 00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:38.679 A butter dog I've got yeah. 734 00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:43.199 Though it had been a little Bobcat gold weight sleeping dogs. Lie. Yeah. 735 00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:46.320 She talks about that Brazilian wax as torture, and that's 736 00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:51.360 another aspect of this of what women go through to 737 00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:56.159 try to conform to certain ideas of how they should 738 00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:58.840 look or how they should be. But yeah, you're gonna 739 00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:00.679 put yourself through that kind of torture. 740 00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:04.639 Justine wants none of it. She even plucks, She even plucks. 741 00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:07.519 Her eyebrow, at one point, the sister's just again to me, 742 00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:13.360 the sister is just constantly, constantly, just like absolutely dominating 743 00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:17.199 in a way that is really aggressive. And there's even 744 00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:20.079 a moment when they're playing video games. So then she 745 00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:22.599 also with Adrian. I'm sorry if I said Aiden before 746 00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:23.199 I met Adrian. 747 00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:25.320 They're playing she she won. 748 00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:30.000 So Justine's developing a real crush obviously on this this roommate, 749 00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:32.880 this gay roommate. And but the sister can tell that, 750 00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:36.239 and so she moves in on him and is playing games, 751 00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:39.639 and then he leaves. They're playing games, she and her 752 00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:43.360 sister in adversarial position of playing a game against each other. 753 00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:45.599 And the last thing that the sister says, where it 754 00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:48.639 cuts away, she goes, kill yourself, kill yourself. She's like 755 00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:51.039 instructing her, She's instructing her how to play a game. 756 00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:52.480 She's like, kill yourself, kill yourself. 757 00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:53.360 Which I think. 758 00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:56.159 Again, like there's really so much detail, Like even on 759 00:40:56.199 --> 00:40:58.199 the little there's like a TV screen at one point. 760 00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:01.320 Everything, every little detail really feeds into this. 761 00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:02.920 You can look at things on the wall that kind 762 00:41:02.920 --> 00:41:05.960 of feed into the whole story, and I think every 763 00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:08.920 single word is really very carefully written. 764 00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:11.800 Well when you say everything, Like on the wall when 765 00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:16.199 the demon guy in the hospital, the sign behind him says, 766 00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:21.000 do not cross this red line. And that's kind of like, yeah, 767 00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:24.760 there's these lines. Maybe it's the line of human and 768 00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:28.360 dividing humanity and animals, but don't cross that line, and 769 00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:29.440 they do. 770 00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:32.400 I have to say that one of the most disturbing things. 771 00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:34.519 I mean, you can keep all the cannibalism. The most 772 00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:36.920 disturbing thing for me is when she is throwing up 773 00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:37.880 her own hair. 774 00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:40.280 That's a nightmare I have all the time. Do you 775 00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:42.480 ever have that nightmare? I have that nightmare a lot 776 00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:43.159 where I'm. 777 00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:45.199 Just pulling things out of my mouth. It's often hair 778 00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:48.800 or some other substance like that. So I wonder if 779 00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:51.000 she got that from a real dream. I imagine it's 780 00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:52.440 the kind of thing a lot of people have. But yeah, 781 00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:53.679 I was Boy, did that get me? 782 00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:54.360 For sure? 783 00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:57.320 I don't have that nightmare. But everybody's gotten like a 784 00:41:57.400 --> 00:41:59.719 hair in their food at some point, and it's just 785 00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:06.559 like uncomfortable, feeling like you just don't want it in 786 00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:09.440 your mouth. So to see like a massive amount of 787 00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:14.480 it is really brutal. And I think there's also people 788 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:17.840 think of hairballs they always think of cats, and that's 789 00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:22.320 usually not something that's horrific. We think cats are funny 790 00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:24.239 when they're throwing up hair of balls. I don't know, 791 00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:28.320 but it also plays in that's another Japanese thing. Hair 792 00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:32.840 in Japanese movies, whether it's going down drains or coming 793 00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:36.320 out of people's mouths or growing and attacking people like, 794 00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:41.039 hair is a really vivid and visceral kind of element. 795 00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:44.679 But yeah, I think it's something that everybody can identify 796 00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:46.960 with on a certain level. Not that amount of hair, 797 00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:49.400 but definitely that feeling of oh, I got a hair 798 00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:52.679 in my mouth, and then to multiply that by the 799 00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:57.039 amount she had, and to keep pulling and playing and playing. 800 00:42:57.519 --> 00:42:59.360 And that you saw her chewing on her hair in 801 00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:02.599 the previous when that professor's calling her out. I just 802 00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:04.679 was thinking of all the time that there was a 803 00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:08.280 time in elementary school where this poor girl was chewing 804 00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:11.159 on her own hair and my teacher made her go 805 00:43:11.239 --> 00:43:14.400 up to the front of the classroom and basically humiliated 806 00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:16.639 her in front of everyone. Was just like, okay, Tracy, 807 00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:18.199 if you're kind of chew your hair, chew your hair 808 00:43:18.280 --> 00:43:20.159 right here, we all want to see it. It was 809 00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:22.800 like oh my god, Like that still haunts me to 810 00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:24.920 this day. I can't imagine what it did for Tracy. 811 00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:27.760 One thing I hate in all movies in the vomit scenes. 812 00:43:27.800 --> 00:43:31.039 I can't watch a vomit scene, but I hadn't seen. 813 00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:35.320 Mike very kindly provided us with some deleted scenes, and 814 00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:37.159 I hope people can find this on YouTube. But there's 815 00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:40.599 one deleted scene where she's in the classroom where they 816 00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:42.920 had the pregnant cow, and it's a really great scene. 817 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.599 I wish they hadn't cut it actually, where the professor 818 00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:48.239 is talking and she's beginning to go into some weird, 819 00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:50.880 little kind of hypnotic state, and everything is going into 820 00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:53.599 this very weird it's hard to explain how they do it, 821 00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:56.360 but it's slow moey and that kind of thing, and 822 00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:58.280 she ends up running out of the classroom and in 823 00:43:58.360 --> 00:44:02.559 complete slow motion, and it almost it's like you just 824 00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:06.199 see a little courtyard and you see these this sort 825 00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:10.079 of hallway through glass, and in slimush, she throws up 826 00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:12.840 on the glass and it's beautiful. It's the first time 827 00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:15.880 I've ever seen a beautiful vomit scene. It's really worth seeing. 828 00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:20.679 It's gorgeous and it's unbelievably. The direction there is just amazing. 829 00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:24.280 So much of this film is gorgeous, even though it 830 00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:28.960 shouldn't be. We shouldn't find some of this stuff to 831 00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:34.599 look beautiful, but the film is really a beautifully shot 832 00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:36.400 and executed movie. 833 00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:40.239 Speaking of throwing up, I love after she throws up. 834 00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:42.960 There's the girl in the bathroom with her who is 835 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.159 just like, oh, you should really use your fingers instead. 836 00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:47.840 It makes it much easier, she said, use two fingers, 837 00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:48.519 and then. 838 00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:50.800 She's like combing her hair with her fingers, and she 839 00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.719 just has this beautiful smile, like she kind of smiles 840 00:44:53.719 --> 00:44:56.079 at herself and her eyes closed and she just looks 841 00:44:56.119 --> 00:44:59.840 like so beatific. I'm like, what the hell, But it's 842 00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:03.239 like this nice advice from one girl to another because 843 00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:05.679 she probably thinks that Justine is bellemic. 844 00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:10.719 But also that's my like, that's like her testing that smiles. 845 00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:13.159 I'm gonna have to go out of this bathroom into 846 00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:16.280 the public space, and I need to look like I'm happy. 847 00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:19.639 So this is my happy smile, because when she stops smiling, 848 00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:23.719 she does not look happy at all, and she's a 849 00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:29.159 little chubby, so she's probably somebody who herself has done 850 00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:32.800 this or has been told that she needs to lose 851 00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:36.840 some weight, so it feels very much. Again, this is 852 00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:41.360 another commentary on like body image and the pressures to 853 00:45:41.400 --> 00:45:45.679 look a certain way, and and that's her advice. It's 854 00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:47.360 I've had to do this, so let me just give 855 00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:49.400 you some advice. It's a whole lot easier. And then 856 00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:52.719 at the end of the film she does use two fingers. 857 00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:54.360 When she at the hospital site. Is that what you 858 00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:55.920 mean after the hospital? 859 00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:56.280 Yeah? 860 00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:58.840 She and by the way, that hospital and speaking again 861 00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:02.599 of beutiful building, Oh my god, that building is so cool. 862 00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:04.440 The hospital. You have to it's just great. 863 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:07.360 So she goes outside of the hospital and yeah, she 864 00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:09.920 tries to make herself throw up the finger and yeah, 865 00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:10.400 there it is. 866 00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:12.559 Everything comes back around in a beautiful way. 867 00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:15.559 Yeah, and those buildings, it does remind me of like 868 00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:20.920 Cronenberg's films, especially some of his early ones, like those structures. 869 00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:23.000 That are Crimes to the Future or whatever. 870 00:46:23.079 --> 00:46:25.880 Yeah, but also way back, what was that what was 871 00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:28.079 the student film that he made? I forgot the name 872 00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:30.440 of it. Oh, I think it maybe that was the 873 00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:33.000 original Crimes of the Future, because wasn't didn't you do what? 874 00:46:33.239 --> 00:46:33.440 Yeah? 875 00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:36.440 Yeah, yeah, so that one yeah, where it's these kind 876 00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:40.800 of cold, very impressive structures, but it had a very 877 00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:45.400 cronenberg Esque look to the buildings and the just the 878 00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:47.280 architecture that's throughout the film. 879 00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:49.400 And I seem to remember that had a lot of 880 00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:52.079 people in white coats as well, if memory serves. It's 881 00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:55.199 been a long time since I've seen it. But yeah, 882 00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:57.159 that's so confusing that he made two movies with the 883 00:46:57.159 --> 00:46:59.760 same title, and I don't think they're related, but I 884 00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:01.360 have and seeing the new. 885 00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:04.800 One, No, they're not not that. Maybe thematically you could 886 00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:08.360 say they're related, but in terms of an actual narrative, 887 00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:10.239 I did not find anything. 888 00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:15.079 They're Brazilian scene definitely, the whole idea of the chopping 889 00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:18.400 off of the finger and rather than I mean, I 890 00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:24.320 guess the preservation doesn't go as well as it should have, 891 00:47:24.519 --> 00:47:29.159 what with Justine starting to eat the finger, and then 892 00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:34.760 the whole idea of the sister waking up, and I just, oh, man, 893 00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:37.960 that's like this shared secret that they have that keeps 894 00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:41.519 them together. For me, the rest of the movie, it's 895 00:47:41.840 --> 00:47:43.840 and then that poor fucking dog, because they're going to 896 00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:46.559 put the dog down because they pinned the blame on 897 00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:47.199 the dog. 898 00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:51.360 I noticed throughout the film there is no concern for dogs, 899 00:47:51.559 --> 00:47:54.559 Like when she's in the car driving to school and 900 00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:57.559 the dog licks her in a very friendly, affectionate way. 901 00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:00.639 She just shoves that dog away, which is another reason 902 00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:03.920 why I didn't believe she was vegetarian at all. You 903 00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:07.400 don't treat animals, you a dog like that dog exists 904 00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:10.199 only for joy, so anyway, but that is my own 905 00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:12.679 personal prejudice on that point. 906 00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:16.840 The music in that scene it's amazing, like it really 907 00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:20.360 makes that scene like spectacular. It starts with just a 908 00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:24.159 nice guitar that's almost too nice for what just happened. 909 00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:27.360 This is after the finger gets cut off. There's this 910 00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:29.760 beautiful there's like this theme that goes with Justine and 911 00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:31.480 it's just a really pretty guitar theme. 912 00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:35.360 But then it goes into what. 913 00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:38.440 Is it clavier like the organ that it's like the 914 00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:43.119 classic horror movie Organs but done. 915 00:48:43.159 --> 00:48:45.920 It's such a gorgeous like they nail it so hard. 916 00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:49.199 Yeah, and we can wonder what if there had been 917 00:48:49.239 --> 00:48:52.679 ice in the freezer, would this have taken a different turn? 918 00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:55.719 Would she have never bitten it? I don't know. But 919 00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:58.960 that scene also made me think of the other French 920 00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:01.800 film inside, Like, where the hell did French get these 921 00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:06.679 scissors that can cut open a stomach and just blop 922 00:49:06.760 --> 00:49:07.519 off a finger. 923 00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:12.000 Yeah, yeah, I've never had scissors that sharp in my 924 00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:15.800 entire life. I've never had knives that's sharp in my life. 925 00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:18.119 In one of her interviews, she admits that she's like, 926 00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:19.519 that might be a little unrealistic. 927 00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:20.960 Yeah, she does say that. 928 00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:24.480 Yeah, which, so she gotta you gotta, you gotta conventions 929 00:49:24.519 --> 00:49:25.039 with movies. 930 00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:27.840 Yeah, but yeah, when you see your take out those scissors, 931 00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:31.519 first you're terrified that she's gonna cut that wax off 932 00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:35.760 and cut off her sister's skin. And then it turns 933 00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:38.280 out that those scissors get turned on her. But yeah, 934 00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:40.400 you see those scissors come out, and you're immediately like 935 00:49:41.960 --> 00:49:45.280 your hair it rises going, Yeah, nothing good's gonna happen 936 00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:45.719 from that. 937 00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:48.960 Well, when she brings out the scissors, doesn't Justine say 938 00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:50.119 you're going to castrate me. 939 00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:51.159 I don't know. 940 00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:53.760 She said my pussy or something like that. 941 00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:59.400 Yeah, I'm glad that shot translates between American and French. 942 00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:02.559 You know, I didn't realize that pussy is the same 943 00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:06.519 in any language. Oh, you'll circumcise me, that's what she. 944 00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:10.119 Says not, Yeah, that's great, that's a much greater choice 945 00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:10.960 of words there. 946 00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:14.960 Yes, exactly because of the female circumcision. Yeah, I did 947 00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:17.960 see one video essay that was talking about that opening 948 00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:20.519 scene that we were discussing with the car crash at 949 00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:24.159 the beginning and just positing like, well, maybe that's why 950 00:50:24.440 --> 00:50:28.639 Alexia isn't there when the parents show up to school, 951 00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:32.360 and that she's out causing that car crash, because then 952 00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:34.519 you see the car crash later on in the film 953 00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:37.920 when it's her in a roommate going out for takeaway 954 00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:42.320 to get that kebab, and she's fascinated by that car crash, 955 00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:46.880 and then after you see the third car crash, you're like, oh, Okay, 956 00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:50.880 maybe each time this is happening, that's Alexia needing to feed. 957 00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:53.920 Yeah, and the timeline is just something we don't know, 958 00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:56.480 Like we don't know if that car crash was months 959 00:50:56.519 --> 00:51:01.639 ago or it was immediately before she got there. And 960 00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:04.480 again that's like the ambiguity of the film that she 961 00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:06.599 just doesn't feel like she needs to explain that, but 962 00:51:06.679 --> 00:51:10.760 we're gonna eventually piece together what that car crash means 963 00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:14.119 and that it happens more than once. She has to 964 00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:15.239 feed quite often. 965 00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:17.400 I love that I did it. That's why they couldn't 966 00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:18.800 reach her. Yeah, that's great. 967 00:51:19.719 --> 00:51:22.800 I also love the scene when she is staring at 968 00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:24.960 you're talking about the Kuprick stare, when she's staring at 969 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:28.840 Adrian when he's playing whatever game that is, and just 970 00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:31.920 the active, active camera on him that's moving all over 971 00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:34.480 and then cut back to her and it's that still 972 00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:36.679 camera and you just get that look on her face 973 00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:40.360 and it's not lust. It's definitely something other than lust. 974 00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:43.119 And we've had that shot earlier, just like the previous 975 00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:46.559 scene in the dissection room where she's staring at the 976 00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:50.199 back of his neck and I'm like, Okay, maybe that's lust. 977 00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:53.280 But this thing of him playing the games and grabbing 978 00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:55.719 onto his cock and stuff like, I don't know if 979 00:51:55.760 --> 00:51:58.199 that's lust or if that's hunger. And it's funny that 980 00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:01.800 hunger can mean both. That we talk and that's when 981 00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:04.320 you get that famous image of her getting the nose plate. 982 00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:10.119 She's looking at that flesh and that tasty skin. It definitely, 983 00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:14.400 to me, definitely reads more of a flesh hunger than 984 00:52:14.440 --> 00:52:17.679 a sexual desire at that point. 985 00:52:17.800 --> 00:52:20.320 Yes, so we should probably at this point talk about 986 00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:23.320 that sex scene which is pure animal, which was an 987 00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:25.960 amazing performance. I think they had some stand ins because 988 00:52:25.960 --> 00:52:28.960 she was only seventeen, But oh my gosh. I love 989 00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:31.719 the ending of it where it really you think she's 990 00:52:31.719 --> 00:52:34.599 biting into him and they do it beautifully work just 991 00:52:34.599 --> 00:52:36.440 for a second you think she's biting into him and 992 00:52:36.440 --> 00:52:38.159 then he realized now she's biting into. 993 00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:40.519 Her own arm. It's a great ending to that scene. 994 00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:43.280 I love that the director talked about that being she 995 00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:46.920 considered the sex scene like a stunt scene, like a 996 00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:51.400 fight scene that has to be choreographed that and I 997 00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:55.159 think she did it where she actually was like giving 998 00:52:55.400 --> 00:53:00.639 direction during the scene, telling them what to do. But yeah, yeah, 999 00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:06.159 it's like this well choreographed action and yeah, the no, 1000 00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:09.519 the bite is like it is the perfect way to. 1001 00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:12.119 End it, and that's the orgasm right there. 1002 00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:15.039 She did so many great interviews, but like she mentioned 1003 00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:18.119 possession at one point the subway scene, and I think 1004 00:53:18.159 --> 00:53:19.960 it might have been attached to that scene, which makes 1005 00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:22.679 a lot of sense, like just the person just completely 1006 00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:25.280 losing it, just that kind of acting where you just 1007 00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:28.480 have to let go. So it's really quite a wild scene. 1008 00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:31.440 It's really really over the top and it totally works 1009 00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:32.280 that it's over the top. 1010 00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:36.000 Yeah, because you really see a transformation. There's a point 1011 00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:39.519 where it starts and you're kind of like, oh, okay, it's 1012 00:53:39.559 --> 00:53:42.840 a sexual awakening. She's attracted to him, and then she 1013 00:53:43.039 --> 00:53:46.679 has a transformation, Like you really see a point where 1014 00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:51.800 you start to worry for adrian safety because you feel like, oh, 1015 00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:55.719 that's a hunger for flesh that's waking up right now. 1016 00:53:55.840 --> 00:53:58.159 And I kind of like this guy, and I'm a 1017 00:53:58.199 --> 00:54:01.480 little work. He's not gonna make it through this. 1018 00:54:02.360 --> 00:54:04.119 All right, Let's go ahead and take a break and 1019 00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:06.199 we're going to play an interview that I did with 1020 00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:10.639 Barbara Creed, the author of the monstrous feminine film Feminism 1021 00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:14.199 and Psychoanalysis, as well as quite a few other things. 1022 00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:17.039 Had a great time talking with her about this week's 1023 00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:19.920 movie as well as the previous week's movie in My Skin. 1024 00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:22.920 If you haven't listened to that episode, I highly recommend 1025 00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:25.159 you to go back and listen to that as well. 1026 00:54:25.239 --> 00:54:27.840 But in the meantime, let's go ahead take this break, 1027 00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:30.239 and we'll be back with that interview right after these 1028 00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:31.119 brief messages. 1029 00:54:39.159 --> 00:54:42.760 Hello, everyone, this is Marvin McDowell. I just want to 1030 00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:47.119 say that this is a request to listeners of the 1031 00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:52.800 Projection Booth podcast to become patrons of the show via 1032 00:54:53.360 --> 00:55:01.599 Patreon dot com, pat bo n dot com slash Projection Booth. 1033 00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:05.159 That's pretty simple, I need you can do that. It's 1034 00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:10.039 a great show and Mike he provides hours of great entertainment. 1035 00:55:10.719 --> 00:55:13.480 So now it's time to give back my little drovies. 1036 00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:17.239 Settle down and take a listen and have a sip 1037 00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:20.119 of the old Molocco and then you'll be ready for 1038 00:55:20.199 --> 00:55:20.679 a little of. 1039 00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:27.760 The old in out, in out real horror show. Bye bye. 1040 00:55:28.719 --> 00:55:31.519 Looking for something superior to streaming a place with more 1041 00:55:31.559 --> 00:55:36.000 than five times the selection available on all streaming services combined. 1042 00:55:36.440 --> 00:55:39.920 Check out Scarecrow Videos rent by mail service. Select from 1043 00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:43.440 an unparalleled collection of over one hundred and fifty thousand 1044 00:55:43.519 --> 00:55:47.280 films and get Blu rays, four k's and DVDs delivered 1045 00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:49.800 directly to your door. Get in on it now at 1046 00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:53.280 scarecrow dot com and rediscover the wonders of physical media. 1047 00:55:56.079 --> 00:55:57.800 I'd like to know a little bit more about you, 1048 00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.760 and especially how you got interested in animus studies. 1049 00:56:01.480 --> 00:56:05.480 I became interested as a kid. Really, I was an 1050 00:56:05.559 --> 00:56:09.760 avid Hitchcock fan as a teenager. This is going back 1051 00:56:09.800 --> 00:56:16.079 into the late fifties, Vertigo, Psycho. I just love them all, 1052 00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:19.920 and so that continued on. I helped set up the 1053 00:56:19.960 --> 00:56:24.360 first film society at Monash University where I went, and 1054 00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:27.440 I was a secondary school teacher. I was meant to 1055 00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:31.000 be teaching literature, but more often than not, i'd be 1056 00:56:31.039 --> 00:56:34.840 teaching a film instead. I'd hire films from the State 1057 00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:37.960 Film Center and I got a projectionist license. 1058 00:56:38.599 --> 00:56:39.719 Although I'm really. 1059 00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:42.920 Interested in literature, and I didn't my honest in literature. 1060 00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:46.239 I didn't my masters and my PhD and so forth 1061 00:56:46.280 --> 00:56:50.239 in cinema here in Australia. So it's just been a 1062 00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:53.519 lifelong passion. Really, we want to work out exactly why 1063 00:56:53.559 --> 00:56:57.039 we have to go into sort of analysis of some 1064 00:56:57.239 --> 00:57:01.599 sorted Probably I just so I always found films so exciting, 1065 00:57:01.639 --> 00:57:04.000 and I was always very interested in surrealism from an 1066 00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:07.800 early age too, so I was somehow drawn to the dark, 1067 00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:12.800 crazy side of things. I love all cinema, but particularly 1068 00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:18.559 surrealer cinema and horror cinema. Noir is another favorite. 1069 00:57:18.920 --> 00:57:21.400 What were some of those early surrealist films that you're watching. 1070 00:57:22.039 --> 00:57:24.000 I think probably the first one I saw was on 1071 00:57:24.039 --> 00:57:28.880 Aushoon and Alou. When I started university, we screened it 1072 00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:31.960 at the Film Society. We had a little Boonwell festival, 1073 00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:38.480 and I got involved in the Melbourne International Film Festival, 1074 00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:43.039 which screened annually and it was the only place in 1075 00:57:43.079 --> 00:57:47.199 Australia where you could see films uncensored. There was no 1076 00:57:47.679 --> 00:57:50.559 censorship restrictions. So I used to volunteer as an usher. 1077 00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:54.199 I was still at high school and go across to 1078 00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:57.679 a place called Saint Kilda to the old Palais Theater 1079 00:57:57.760 --> 00:58:01.119 where we had the screenings. I saw a lot of 1080 00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:05.519 films there that would not be released commercially at all, 1081 00:58:06.159 --> 00:58:08.679 so that was the only chance we got. Yeah, it 1082 00:58:08.719 --> 00:58:10.400 would have been all shown and aloud for sure. 1083 00:58:10.519 --> 00:58:11.000 Then. 1084 00:58:11.320 --> 00:58:15.880 Probably the first feature was Exterminating Angel, one of full 1085 00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:18.840 time favorites, as well as belt Azure. 1086 00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:23.000 I love that so many people when they look at films, 1087 00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:23.760 they just think. 1088 00:58:23.639 --> 00:58:24.440 Here's a movie. 1089 00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:27.719 What's the first time that you said, there's something else 1090 00:58:27.760 --> 00:58:28.480 going on here? 1091 00:58:29.079 --> 00:58:34.719 Probably with Psycho. It was being screened in Melbourne and 1092 00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:37.559 there was a lot of pipe around it and we 1093 00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:40.760 were told that once we were in the cinema we 1094 00:58:40.760 --> 00:58:43.679 weren't allowed out the doors would all be shut, which 1095 00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:47.599 would clock, which of course they weren't, So that got 1096 00:58:47.679 --> 00:58:53.000 us all spooked, and I was just astonished because gradually 1097 00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:56.719 there was a constant stream of people who couldn't take 1098 00:58:56.760 --> 00:59:00.800 it anymore and were leaving the cinema. By the time 1099 00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:03.519 we got to the end when the mother turns around 1100 00:59:03.559 --> 00:59:08.199 in her chair, that was some fled the cinema. So 1101 00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:12.519 with Nicho, and I suppose it's because Hitchcock himself had 1102 00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:17.360 put the subtext so firmly in the foreground, although back 1103 00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:21.679 then we didn't even know about subtexts. Nonetheless, I picked 1104 00:59:21.760 --> 00:59:24.800 up that there were other things going on there around 1105 00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:28.880 Norman and his mother, and a repression of his sexuality 1106 00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:34.320 and the strange relationship he develops with the marrying Crane 1107 00:59:34.400 --> 00:59:39.599 figure and Vertigo too. I mean that I thought very 1108 00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:44.239 early on in the film that the real critique was 1109 00:59:44.280 --> 00:59:49.880 actually around the male character who was investigating her, and 1110 00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:53.000 so that appealed because I could feel, again, as with Psycho, 1111 00:59:53.119 --> 00:59:56.000 something that was going on beneath the surface. And I 1112 00:59:56.039 --> 00:59:59.360 think many of Hitchcock's films are much more critique of 1113 00:59:59.400 --> 01:00:04.920 masculinity and masculine repression, although he of course is just 1114 01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:09.039 placing all that onto the heroine. Often, I think Hitchcock 1115 01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:12.840 himself in fact identifies with the heroine. I saw that 1116 01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:16.719 wonderful exhibition in Paris on Hitchcock. I don't know if 1117 01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:20.199 you saw at the Pompidou Center Hitchcock and Art. Oh, 1118 01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:23.639 such a knockout that you walked in and the entire 1119 01:00:24.239 --> 01:00:27.880 huge gallery was blacked out, and all the exhibits that 1120 01:00:27.920 --> 01:00:30.840 they'd got together from the films, such as the Mother's 1121 01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:35.079 wig from Psycho for example, the knife, and they were 1122 01:00:35.119 --> 01:00:38.360 all in cases as if they were precious art objects. 1123 01:00:38.760 --> 01:00:40.840 That was all really dark, and it was called the 1124 01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:45.199 Room of Fetishes from Memory, and Patricia Hitchcock was there, 1125 01:00:45.239 --> 01:00:49.840 so I couldn't help myself. I introduced myself and I 1126 01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:51.559 said to it, do you think your mother played a 1127 01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:55.679 really pe role in the creation of his films? And 1128 01:00:55.719 --> 01:00:58.480 she said, oh, yes, she said, in fact, I'm writing 1129 01:00:58.480 --> 01:00:59.760 a book on that right now. 1130 01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:01.800 I don't know if it came out. 1131 01:01:01.880 --> 01:01:07.159 I'm not sure. So yes, I think with Hitchcockabe, that's 1132 01:01:07.159 --> 01:01:10.440 when I first became aware that these films were dealing 1133 01:01:10.760 --> 01:01:14.480 with unconscious desires as well as conscious, and that there 1134 01:01:14.559 --> 01:01:18.679 was something happening beneath the surface. Which is so much 1135 01:01:18.679 --> 01:01:24.280 more evident, I think in horror, obviously, in film lawrence, surrealism, right. Yeah, 1136 01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:29.599 and today, of course our students just accept this snow 1137 01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:32.039 problem in convincing them. 1138 01:01:33.199 --> 01:01:37.920 Monster's Feminine was the book. It was incritical and inspired 1139 01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:38.480 that article. 1140 01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:43.559 Firstly, I was very involved in women's liberation and gay 1141 01:01:43.639 --> 01:01:49.119 liberation in the seventies and eighties, and a friend and 1142 01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:52.719 I taught a course at the Council of Adult Education, 1143 01:01:53.559 --> 01:01:58.000 which we call pre patriarchal religions. I'm not religious, but 1144 01:01:58.639 --> 01:02:02.400 I became fascinated with what seemed to me to be 1145 01:02:02.559 --> 01:02:09.119 the complete censorship or oppression or whatever of what had 1146 01:02:09.159 --> 01:02:13.000 happened prior to Christianity, and that there were, in fact, 1147 01:02:13.960 --> 01:02:16.639 I mean, I was taught these were pagan cults when 1148 01:02:16.679 --> 01:02:20.440 I went to Sunday School. But I was fascinated by 1149 01:02:21.159 --> 01:02:25.519 the very powerful female figures that existed in pre Christian 1150 01:02:25.719 --> 01:02:30.320 mythology and so forth. My interest then in those kind 1151 01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:37.079 of figures Demeter and Isis and so on, became stronger 1152 01:02:37.119 --> 01:02:40.480 with feminism. And then I was teaching a course on 1153 01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:45.480 the horror film in the seventies, and for some reason 1154 01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:48.280 I must have consciously or unconsciously selected a lot of 1155 01:02:48.280 --> 01:02:53.400 horror films with characters I carry, for example, and The Brood, 1156 01:02:53.840 --> 01:02:57.920 where the monster was female. Yet I was reading in 1157 01:02:57.960 --> 01:03:01.320 the articles I was setting there were no apart from 1158 01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:04.760 the Witch, there were no female monsters of horror because 1159 01:03:04.880 --> 01:03:09.320 woman was made the perfect victim. Gerard Ani, the French critic, 1160 01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:11.480 was the strongest on this, and I thought, this, just 1161 01:03:11.679 --> 01:03:16.719 this is ridiculous. I started in my course to look 1162 01:03:16.719 --> 01:03:20.400 at the female monster, and my students got very excited 1163 01:03:20.440 --> 01:03:23.039 about this. In fact, a group of them formed a 1164 01:03:23.039 --> 01:03:25.960 little group which they called Savage Sisters. They bought themselves 1165 01:03:26.039 --> 01:03:29.719 T shirts and I said, okay, why did we meet 1166 01:03:29.719 --> 01:03:30.320 every month? 1167 01:03:30.840 --> 01:03:32.280 And what you have to do is you go to 1168 01:03:32.320 --> 01:03:36.440 your local video shop. We don't really have any more left. 1169 01:03:36.760 --> 01:03:40.320 And all bring along with a horror video be grade, 1170 01:03:40.360 --> 01:03:45.400 probably with the character's female, the monster's female. They found 1171 01:03:45.400 --> 01:03:47.519 so many and I had to bring one too, so 1172 01:03:47.599 --> 01:03:51.159 we'd screen them all day. We'd have fantastic looking at 1173 01:03:51.159 --> 01:03:55.599 these and movies that was important. In fact, the other day, 1174 01:03:55.639 --> 01:03:59.199 I can't believe it. I was at an auction and 1175 01:04:00.199 --> 01:04:02.760 of the house which obviously belonged to some kind of 1176 01:04:02.800 --> 01:04:05.079 film producer, be because it was all kind of dark 1177 01:04:05.119 --> 01:04:09.400 and posters everywhere, and it was being auctioned, and suddenly, 1178 01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:11.559 from across the other side of the room, just before 1179 01:04:11.559 --> 01:04:14.400 we went into the auction, there were two middle aged 1180 01:04:14.440 --> 01:04:16.960 women there. I could see them looking at me, and 1181 01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:19.400 then one of them yelled at the top of her 1182 01:04:19.480 --> 01:04:23.519 voice the monstrous feminine. And sure enough they said, look, 1183 01:04:23.519 --> 01:04:26.519 we're still teaching what you taught us. And they were 1184 01:04:26.639 --> 01:04:29.760 very excited, and so was I. I mean I remembered them, actually, 1185 01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:34.480 so I I was teaching it. And then I had 1186 01:04:34.480 --> 01:04:38.480 the screen asked me would I like to write an 1187 01:04:38.559 --> 01:04:41.800 article for them on horror. And at the same time 1188 01:04:41.880 --> 01:04:45.280 I'm being in Sydney and there was a very important 1189 01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:48.440 Sydney academic, Liz Gross. I don't know if you know 1190 01:04:48.599 --> 01:04:51.760 her name. She's a philosopher, and she was giving a 1191 01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:55.519 lecture on Julia Christova's theory of objection. And I was 1192 01:04:55.559 --> 01:05:01.079 absolutely fascinated. And although Christava herself at that time anyway, 1193 01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:03.519 certainly as far as I know, I didn't really talk 1194 01:05:03.519 --> 01:05:05.880 about film. In fact, I think she had a kind 1195 01:05:05.880 --> 01:05:10.480 of classic highbrow attitude or French attitude, which she liked 1196 01:05:10.599 --> 01:05:16.239 Kitchkock and directors who were acceptable to art house French cinema, 1197 01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:19.519 but by and large not so much popular film, so 1198 01:05:19.559 --> 01:05:22.360 she didn't really write about film. All her discussions at 1199 01:05:22.360 --> 01:05:25.880 abjection relate to literature, but I thought seems to me 1200 01:05:26.119 --> 01:05:30.000 that in fact, if anything, they make just as much sense. 1201 01:05:30.039 --> 01:05:34.559 Her theory of the abject applied to film as to literature. 1202 01:05:35.239 --> 01:05:37.400 So that's what I did in the article. So you 1203 01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:41.960 could say it was this early course on classical mythology 1204 01:05:42.599 --> 01:05:48.039 and female mythological figures, combined with my teaching the horror 1205 01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:53.000 film and discovering so many films with female monsters, combined 1206 01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:57.000 with Christava's theory of objection, which was very much centered 1207 01:05:57.559 --> 01:06:01.239 on the monstrous female body, and just tied imperfectly with 1208 01:06:01.320 --> 01:06:05.679 films like Perry and Her Menstruation and The Brood with 1209 01:06:05.840 --> 01:06:09.559 the pregnancy and so on. And my students, of course, 1210 01:06:09.639 --> 01:06:13.880 who were quite inspirational in all of this, and all 1211 01:06:13.920 --> 01:06:17.079 of that just powered this together in the eighties, and 1212 01:06:17.119 --> 01:06:21.079 so the original article came out in Screening eighty seven. 1213 01:06:21.159 --> 01:06:21.840 I think it was. 1214 01:06:22.440 --> 01:06:26.880 What happened was I got a letter from Tony Bennett 1215 01:06:27.199 --> 01:06:30.719 who read the screen article. He's an academic, and said, look, 1216 01:06:30.719 --> 01:06:34.079 we'd love it if you could just put this into 1217 01:06:34.159 --> 01:06:36.440 book form and we can publish it in our series 1218 01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:40.639 on popular culture. So I was doing my PhD at 1219 01:06:40.639 --> 01:06:44.199 the time, so, and in fact, The Monstrous Feminine is 1220 01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:47.159 my PhD. So I said, yes I can, but you 1221 01:06:47.320 --> 01:06:50.079 just have to wait a bit, because I said, in fact, 1222 01:06:50.079 --> 01:06:52.480 I'm writing it up now actually, but as a PhD. 1223 01:06:52.599 --> 01:06:54.960 So I can't actually give it to you as a 1224 01:06:54.960 --> 01:06:57.239 book until that goes through all the processes. 1225 01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:00.400 Obviously, you talk a lot about the abject, and I've 1226 01:07:01.199 --> 01:07:04.000 talked a little bit about that in our discussions of 1227 01:07:04.039 --> 01:07:07.119 these films. But I was curious, what is your definition 1228 01:07:07.280 --> 01:07:10.960 or how do you use objection when it comes to 1229 01:07:11.039 --> 01:07:12.320 looking at films. 1230 01:07:12.599 --> 01:07:15.960 When I wrote The Monstrous Feminine, I was using it 1231 01:07:16.719 --> 01:07:20.519 very much as Christova does. So the object, it's not 1232 01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:25.119 an object, it's a state of being. It's a feeling, 1233 01:07:25.599 --> 01:07:29.800 and it occurs when boundaries are crossed, borders are breached, 1234 01:07:30.639 --> 01:07:34.960 and in general, you could argue that she might use 1235 01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:38.599 the word patriarchal societies that I did, although she talks 1236 01:07:38.639 --> 01:07:42.239 about them like a lot of French feminists and other 1237 01:07:42.400 --> 01:07:46.119 writers that don't like to be tied to feminism or 1238 01:07:46.639 --> 01:07:51.360 seen as feminists that don't want the label. Even Douconno, 1239 01:07:51.480 --> 01:07:55.840 who's directed raw and to take courses, has also said this. 1240 01:07:56.639 --> 01:08:00.760 And christovers so I thought, if we apply objects as 1241 01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:03.519 she does to patriarchal societies, we can see everything on 1242 01:08:03.559 --> 01:08:07.840 the other side of this imaginary border. The animal, for example, 1243 01:08:08.719 --> 01:08:12.639 nature in certain religious societies it would be so pagan 1244 01:08:12.679 --> 01:08:16.720 religions if you like and woman and on the other 1245 01:08:16.800 --> 01:08:19.720 side or are relegated to the other side of this border. 1246 01:08:20.520 --> 01:08:24.199 So society allows contact with the object, which might be 1247 01:08:24.359 --> 01:08:30.560 through ritual or the carnivalesque and so forth. And I 1248 01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:34.960 argue through film, the film puts us in direct contact, 1249 01:08:35.399 --> 01:08:38.600 from the safety of our cinema sets, of course, with 1250 01:08:38.720 --> 01:08:42.319 those things that threaten to destroy us. The most abject 1251 01:08:42.319 --> 01:08:46.399 thing of all, Christova argues is the corpse. Now, the 1252 01:08:46.399 --> 01:08:49.640 corpse in a mortuary is not abject. The corpses are 1253 01:08:49.680 --> 01:08:53.039 not in the mortuary. Is an object, and it's been 1254 01:08:53.359 --> 01:08:57.560 cleaned and dressed and made to look as if not dead, 1255 01:08:58.399 --> 01:09:01.359 so that relatives can view the body, et cetera, et cetera. 1256 01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:03.840 This is not abject. What is abject is the corpse 1257 01:09:03.840 --> 01:09:09.760 that's rotting away. Let's say, in Holland's film spore where 1258 01:09:09.760 --> 01:09:13.880 the older woman goes out and starts murdering the hunters 1259 01:09:14.159 --> 01:09:17.760 who are killing animals. They've killed her dogs, so she's 1260 01:09:18.520 --> 01:09:22.479 the villagers think she's a witch, so she's abject. She's 1261 01:09:22.479 --> 01:09:25.079 on the other side of this border, and an actual fact. 1262 01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:29.520 They're right to be spared of it, because she murders 1263 01:09:30.359 --> 01:09:33.439 these hunters one after the other in all sorts of 1264 01:09:34.159 --> 01:09:39.079 gruesome ways. But in a few scenes we see rotting bodies, 1265 01:09:40.079 --> 01:09:43.680 so they're abject because they've lost their borders. The body 1266 01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:49.359 in the mortuary hasn't still dressed and cleaned, but the 1267 01:09:49.439 --> 01:09:53.960 rotting body is where the flesh is decaying. The animals 1268 01:09:53.960 --> 01:09:57.800 have been added, it's been ripped apart. The borders are gone, 1269 01:09:58.039 --> 01:10:01.880 so it's completely abject. And this kind of abject body 1270 01:10:01.920 --> 01:10:06.560 has to be the threat to civilized society, which considers 1271 01:10:06.600 --> 01:10:11.239 anything that's lost its borders, borders defined by patriarchal ideology 1272 01:10:11.319 --> 01:10:16.840 in many cultures still threatens us. But cinema enables us 1273 01:10:16.840 --> 01:10:20.039 to come into contact with the object, particularly and surreal 1274 01:10:20.039 --> 01:10:25.479 as cinema and horror and noir. So these three genres, 1275 01:10:25.479 --> 01:10:28.399 if you like, I think can be best understood in 1276 01:10:28.520 --> 01:10:32.119 terms of the objects so the object what it is 1277 01:10:32.239 --> 01:10:36.760 really is, I think in the end, it creates an 1278 01:10:36.760 --> 01:10:42.399 ontological crisis or crisis of meaning. So when we confront 1279 01:10:42.399 --> 01:10:46.439 the object, we're asked to think again about what does 1280 01:10:46.479 --> 01:10:49.720 it mean to be human? That's the most profound question 1281 01:10:49.800 --> 01:10:52.760 I suppose that comes out of this because the object 1282 01:10:52.880 --> 01:10:57.960 collapses boundaries between human and animal, particularly in the Cannibal film, 1283 01:10:58.640 --> 01:11:02.039 between human and nature, which some people don't find at 1284 01:11:02.079 --> 01:11:06.680 all object. But historically we've built all sorts of boundaries 1285 01:11:06.720 --> 01:11:09.039 to protect us from the horrors of nature, which we're 1286 01:11:09.039 --> 01:11:12.479 busily destroying at the moment, of course, at ourselves with it. 1287 01:11:13.359 --> 01:11:15.960 When you talk about a border, I'm curious if you 1288 01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:19.000 could apply that to the body as far as a 1289 01:11:19.119 --> 01:11:22.800 film like In My Skin, where she is violating that 1290 01:11:22.960 --> 01:11:26.720 border by digging in and cutting open and taking pieces 1291 01:11:26.720 --> 01:11:29.840 of that. And you mentioned cannibalism as the self cannibalism 1292 01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:31.840 that she's doing the skin. 1293 01:11:32.720 --> 01:11:36.560 When you think about it, it's a very fragile covering, 1294 01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:42.079 but it holds everything in all our insides, if you like. 1295 01:11:43.000 --> 01:11:43.119 So. 1296 01:11:43.760 --> 01:11:46.159 I think that's why in horror films there are so 1297 01:11:46.279 --> 01:11:51.479 many scenes with knives, because the knife threatens to cut 1298 01:11:51.640 --> 01:11:55.640 the skin open, at which point everything falls from the 1299 01:11:55.680 --> 01:11:58.960 inside to the outside. So the abjective is all very 1300 01:11:59.039 --> 01:12:02.760 much about the inside falling to the outside. And in 1301 01:12:02.840 --> 01:12:05.880 terms of the human body, it's the skin that protects 1302 01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:09.279 us in a way from the abject. And yes, the 1303 01:12:09.319 --> 01:12:13.760 cannibal film is about tearing open the skin, not just 1304 01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:17.720 revealing what's inside, and breaching the border so that the 1305 01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:20.880 insides as they fall out, become abject in a way. 1306 01:12:21.359 --> 01:12:25.239 And it's not so much the insides of the body 1307 01:12:25.800 --> 01:12:30.840 as objects, but the abject comes about by the terrible nauseer, 1308 01:12:31.039 --> 01:12:38.880 if you like, and the sense of uncanniness, even difference 1309 01:12:38.920 --> 01:12:43.960 of queerness that threatens to engulf us. It's more to 1310 01:12:43.960 --> 01:12:47.279 do with that feeling. Really, the film is so good 1311 01:12:47.319 --> 01:12:53.239 at engendering. But yes, that's probably all horror films. It's 1312 01:12:53.239 --> 01:12:57.199 the cannibal film really, if we see Seeds of cannibalism, 1313 01:12:57.479 --> 01:13:02.560 the fat as you say, really focuses on objection. But 1314 01:13:02.600 --> 01:13:04.880 that's why people love it as well. It's such a 1315 01:13:04.920 --> 01:13:09.920 popular or it certainly was with Texas Chainsaw Massacre and 1316 01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:14.560 The Hills Have Eyes and those classic cannibal films. These 1317 01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:16.600 were the darling of the horror genre. In a way 1318 01:13:16.760 --> 01:13:21.079 because they went to such extremes with New French extremism, 1319 01:13:21.279 --> 01:13:24.079 the whole movement in France the turn of the twenty 1320 01:13:24.079 --> 01:13:29.239 first century. These films play with the object in all 1321 01:13:29.279 --> 01:13:32.000 sorts of shocking and gruesome ways. But the thing is 1322 01:13:32.079 --> 01:13:33.439 we want to be shocked, I think. 1323 01:13:33.479 --> 01:13:33.880 Anyway. 1324 01:13:34.920 --> 01:13:37.319 I remember going to the cinema a lot with my 1325 01:13:37.439 --> 01:13:41.279 good friend who sadly died not long ago, Leslie Stern, 1326 01:13:42.039 --> 01:13:44.279 and she wrote, she written a lot on the cinema 1327 01:13:44.319 --> 01:13:47.560 and a group of us we go every Friday to 1328 01:13:47.600 --> 01:13:50.840 see horror movies, and she say, barbe, look, I just 1329 01:13:50.920 --> 01:13:55.800 can't watch, so tell me when it's over. So these 1330 01:13:55.800 --> 01:14:00.439 should be with their head between hernes, missing all the objects, 1331 01:14:00.520 --> 01:14:04.000 but she's still see the horror movies. So I thought, 1332 01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:07.960 that's another look that the horror film has created. That's 1333 01:14:08.439 --> 01:14:13.880 looking away. Laura Mulby ruts her fantastic article on how 1334 01:14:14.680 --> 01:14:18.479 cinema compels the look and the gaze and the male gaze, 1335 01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:20.600 and there's a lot now on the female gays, but 1336 01:14:21.000 --> 01:14:24.680 there's also when we can't gaze at all. It's just 1337 01:14:24.760 --> 01:14:27.640 too shocking, which horror explores. 1338 01:14:28.439 --> 01:14:30.800 You give that moment also in my skin where you 1339 01:14:30.880 --> 01:14:34.199 can't trust the main character's own gaze when she looks 1340 01:14:34.239 --> 01:14:36.880 down at her arm on a table and it's not 1341 01:14:36.880 --> 01:14:38.720 connected to her body at all anymore. 1342 01:14:39.239 --> 01:14:42.640 I thought that was beautifully surreal. I kept thinking of 1343 01:14:42.720 --> 01:14:47.399 the Boonewell Film's Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie, where the 1344 01:14:47.479 --> 01:14:50.720 first is the exterminating Angel, where they all come to 1345 01:14:50.760 --> 01:14:54.479 meet for dinner and they can't leave the room, and 1346 01:14:54.520 --> 01:14:56.840 then there's discreete Charm where they're all trying to make 1347 01:14:56.880 --> 01:15:00.399 an arrangement to have dinner but they can't actually get together. 1348 01:15:00.880 --> 01:15:03.600 They're very surreal sort of scenes around the dinner table, 1349 01:15:04.079 --> 01:15:09.000 and I thought she was playing there with surrealism as well, 1350 01:15:09.159 --> 01:15:14.359 with her seena and what she's imagining the arm's doing 1351 01:15:14.840 --> 01:15:17.640 and how she's grabbing it and trying to stop it. 1352 01:15:17.640 --> 01:15:19.520 It's a bit Doctor Strangelove too. 1353 01:15:20.199 --> 01:15:23.439 Imagine Nunsha in Andalou and there's that scene of the 1354 01:15:23.560 --> 01:15:26.920 hand on the street or the disembodied hand and discreet 1355 01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:28.520 Charm that's trying to choke the woman. 1356 01:15:29.119 --> 01:15:32.239 That's right, that's right. I love that scene. It's fantastic years. 1357 01:15:32.279 --> 01:15:36.239 I'm sure that's part of what she's doing. I think 1358 01:15:36.279 --> 01:15:41.279 that's the only scene that moves around the surreal. But 1359 01:15:41.680 --> 01:15:44.439 it's important that she's put it there. I think because 1360 01:15:45.359 --> 01:15:48.479 she's once she's telling us that she wants us to 1361 01:15:48.520 --> 01:15:52.399 relate to the film. It's both real and surreal that 1362 01:15:52.760 --> 01:15:57.600 we're dealing with the unconscious as well as the conscious. 1363 01:15:58.279 --> 01:16:02.720 It's such a strange film and whole idea of self cannibalism. 1364 01:16:03.159 --> 01:16:07.640 It's not really about that practice of self mutilation in 1365 01:16:07.680 --> 01:16:11.560 a way, because as she begins to eat parts of 1366 01:16:11.600 --> 01:16:16.000 her body, some of those scenes are very intimate and 1367 01:16:16.640 --> 01:16:21.399 abject at the same time, which is an unusual conversation. 1368 01:16:21.920 --> 01:16:26.000 I think you asked me earlier what I use the object, 1369 01:16:26.079 --> 01:16:29.000 and I forgot to mention it. In The Monstrous Feminine, 1370 01:16:29.039 --> 01:16:33.479 I mainly looked at horror films where the women female 1371 01:16:33.560 --> 01:16:37.079 characters are represented as abject in terms of their reproductive 1372 01:16:37.119 --> 01:16:44.079 sexual bodies. Harry becomes develops telekinesis powers when she's menstruating 1373 01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:49.000 in the Brood, the mother gives birth to creatures in 1374 01:16:49.039 --> 01:16:51.960 a sack outside her body, so that these are scenes 1375 01:16:52.000 --> 01:16:58.359 of female reproductive life which are abject in a horror 1376 01:16:58.439 --> 01:17:02.239 and Chris Davitt talks about the way the symbolic male 1377 01:17:02.359 --> 01:17:09.199 paternal symbolic order constructs women's paternal body as abject, consciously 1378 01:17:09.279 --> 01:17:13.880 or otherwise, so that woman is put cast outside when 1379 01:17:13.880 --> 01:17:18.039 she's pregnant, when she's menstruating the bounds of society, she's 1380 01:17:18.079 --> 01:17:21.079 a taboo figure in lots of societies when had to 1381 01:17:21.119 --> 01:17:24.720 go into the menstrual huts when they're menstruated. Even today, 1382 01:17:25.239 --> 01:17:28.079 in many societies men I'm not meant to have sex 1383 01:17:28.119 --> 01:17:33.960 with a menstruating woman, strict Jewish societies still, and women 1384 01:17:33.960 --> 01:17:37.000 too giving birth go to the birth in huts that 1385 01:17:37.000 --> 01:17:40.039 they're separated ut. But what I did so I looked 1386 01:17:40.039 --> 01:17:44.119 at William's bodies as sources of horror, even though they 1387 01:17:44.159 --> 01:17:47.760 rebel Like Carrie in the recent book Return of the 1388 01:17:47.760 --> 01:17:52.439 Monstrous Feminine, I argue that here in these films, many 1389 01:17:52.520 --> 01:17:55.960 made by women, but not all. I think male directors 1390 01:17:56.000 --> 01:18:02.680 too can present feminist arguments. In these films, such as Teeth, 1391 01:18:02.720 --> 01:18:04.600 which is about a young girl who's actually got a 1392 01:18:04.680 --> 01:18:10.199 vejared in Tatar, that the heroine deliberately actually goes on 1393 01:18:10.960 --> 01:18:15.880 into a journey into objection to confront either her own 1394 01:18:15.960 --> 01:18:19.119 reproductive self, but in many of these films to confront 1395 01:18:19.159 --> 01:18:22.880 the male who threatens to it, particularly the violent male 1396 01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:23.600 or the rapist. 1397 01:18:24.520 --> 01:18:25.399 So I talk. 1398 01:18:25.239 --> 01:18:29.840 About the journey into objection, where I talk about radical objection. 1399 01:18:30.560 --> 01:18:33.800 So it's quite a change from the way I used 1400 01:18:34.479 --> 01:18:37.439 objection in the first book. And I think this has 1401 01:18:37.479 --> 01:18:40.439 happened because most of the films I talk about are 1402 01:18:40.479 --> 01:18:44.439 actually directed by women who say, okay, so our what 1403 01:18:44.680 --> 01:18:47.359 is are abject? All right, let's what does this mean. 1404 01:18:47.800 --> 01:18:52.079 Let's open it all up for discussion, as do Quno 1405 01:18:52.279 --> 01:18:57.399 does in Rauw and I think Marina. 1406 01:18:57.279 --> 01:18:59.319 Does in My Skin. 1407 01:19:00.159 --> 01:19:04.119 So it's a sort of completely interesting change of emphasis. 1408 01:19:04.680 --> 01:19:08.000 So you get and I argue this happens pretty much 1409 01:19:08.479 --> 01:19:13.000 in the beginning. Starts at the beginnings of the New Century, 1410 01:19:13.800 --> 01:19:17.119 as women are becoming a lot more vocal about themselves 1411 01:19:17.119 --> 01:19:21.399 and their rights. You get hashtag me too, which actually 1412 01:19:21.439 --> 01:19:25.840 begins earlier, around two thousand and eight, but it really 1413 01:19:25.880 --> 01:19:29.439 comes to the fall a decade later with the Harvey One, 1414 01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:32.319 same case and so forth. But I think what we 1415 01:19:32.439 --> 01:19:38.640 get around the New Century is what happened in sixty eight. 1416 01:19:40.000 --> 01:19:43.239 In sixty eight, you get all those revolutions. You get 1417 01:19:43.279 --> 01:19:47.760 the feminist revolution, you get Black power, you get the 1418 01:19:47.800 --> 01:19:51.239 Green movement, you get the anti war movement and so forth. 1419 01:19:51.600 --> 01:19:55.920 And I think what's happening now is there's a new feminism, 1420 01:19:56.640 --> 01:20:00.000 there's a new not so much it's a green movement, 1421 01:20:00.079 --> 01:20:03.399 but it's a kind of global warming and save the 1422 01:20:03.439 --> 01:20:08.199 Earth movement. Then we've got the new black politics that 1423 01:20:08.239 --> 01:20:13.520 have occurred in America, particularly with the Black Lives Matter movement. 1424 01:20:14.279 --> 01:20:18.039 So there's a whole radicalization I think happening in this 1425 01:20:18.119 --> 01:20:22.199 new century, which is reflected in so many films, particularly 1426 01:20:22.239 --> 01:20:25.439 these films directed by women, So it's fascinating. And of 1427 01:20:25.479 --> 01:20:29.520 course there's the whole queer movement and all sorts of 1428 01:20:30.239 --> 01:20:33.600 inflections of that around different kinds of sexuality as well. 1429 01:20:34.239 --> 01:20:37.199 And on top of that, we also now have a 1430 01:20:37.279 --> 01:20:41.920 fascinating movement which begins I think with the human animal, 1431 01:20:42.680 --> 01:20:45.800 with animal liberation, which becomes the kind of new movement 1432 01:20:45.840 --> 01:20:50.119 into human animal studies and now has moved more into 1433 01:20:50.960 --> 01:20:56.159 human non human theorists looking at films and saying, there 1434 01:20:56.159 --> 01:21:00.000 are so many films now that are about our relationship 1435 01:21:00.159 --> 01:21:03.039 also to the non human, not just in terms of animal, 1436 01:21:03.079 --> 01:21:07.399 but in terms of ecosystems, in terms of the earth, 1437 01:21:08.239 --> 01:21:14.439 in terms of objects sci fi, the humanoid, the robotic, 1438 01:21:14.560 --> 01:21:17.920 and so forth, and so in fact, I'm just coaging 1439 01:21:17.960 --> 01:21:21.720 a book with a colleague which is called Non Human Cinema. 1440 01:21:22.479 --> 01:21:25.119 So we've got a whole lot of fantastic ess acts 1441 01:21:25.399 --> 01:21:29.600 where the authors are writing not just about human and 1442 01:21:29.640 --> 01:21:32.279 an animal, but human. And you know, there's an essay 1443 01:21:32.279 --> 01:21:35.880 on mountains in film, for example, that kind of thing. 1444 01:21:36.359 --> 01:21:40.039 Because and all this has happened with this smooth called 1445 01:21:40.039 --> 01:21:43.560 the Non Human Turn, which begins in the last decade 1446 01:21:43.640 --> 01:21:47.840 or so. Donn and Harroway says, we have never been human. 1447 01:21:48.399 --> 01:21:52.199 The humans are construct which the horror film knows perfectly well. 1448 01:21:52.880 --> 01:21:57.159 We construct ourselves as civilized and it's completely different from 1449 01:21:57.159 --> 01:21:57.640 the animal. 1450 01:21:58.520 --> 01:21:59.000 But we're not. 1451 01:21:59.800 --> 01:22:03.680 We are an animal, and civilization is a veneer in 1452 01:22:03.720 --> 01:22:06.760 a lot of cases, which Horror of course explores as 1453 01:22:06.800 --> 01:22:10.960 the veneer falls away. Which is why the monstrous figure 1454 01:22:11.039 --> 01:22:15.000 the monsters Frankenstein onwards is so fascinating and in most 1455 01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:19.479 horror films, the figure we identify with as Doucono says 1456 01:22:19.520 --> 01:22:24.520 that she finds the monster fascinating because the monster is rebelling, 1457 01:22:24.920 --> 01:22:28.720 and Robin Wood said this before Ducono. The monster is 1458 01:22:28.800 --> 01:22:31.880 empathetic and sympathetic because the monster is the one that's 1459 01:22:31.920 --> 01:22:40.239 rebelling against social norms, hierarchies, ideologies, cruelty, the dominant order 1460 01:22:40.279 --> 01:22:45.159 which represses the other, whether it's woman or queer or black, 1461 01:22:46.319 --> 01:22:49.800 and so on. These incredible changes taking place right now. 1462 01:22:49.800 --> 01:22:52.199 And of course you've got an even greater challenge happening 1463 01:22:52.199 --> 01:22:54.800 now in the States with the threat that's happening to 1464 01:22:56.079 --> 01:22:59.600 the First Amendment, for example, And I think that could 1465 01:22:59.600 --> 01:23:03.520 well le to a new social movement to try and 1466 01:23:03.560 --> 01:23:07.199 protect the First Amendment. It's unusual, isn't it. Who would 1467 01:23:07.199 --> 01:23:11.079 have ever thought. I've been watching with interest the Jimmy 1468 01:23:11.159 --> 01:23:15.439 Kimmel Show. It's been going on around that. It's interesting 1469 01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:19.560 how a figure from popular culture as Girlvin are such support. 1470 01:23:19.840 --> 01:23:23.359 But I think popular culture is the most radical form 1471 01:23:23.359 --> 01:23:24.359 of culture myself. 1472 01:23:25.920 --> 01:23:29.640 Your new book sounds fascinating. I've been hoping to read 1473 01:23:29.720 --> 01:23:34.079 some very low written essays around things like Megan and 1474 01:23:34.399 --> 01:23:37.880 Companyon or even x Mark, and just this whole idea 1475 01:23:37.920 --> 01:23:44.039 of this sexualization of the false female and how false 1476 01:23:44.159 --> 01:23:46.800 is that female versus a real woman. 1477 01:23:47.560 --> 01:23:51.399 Yes, ex Mecanner is really interesting. Although I know I've 1478 01:23:51.439 --> 01:23:53.720 been criticized some people argue there is a sort of 1479 01:23:53.840 --> 01:23:56.760 threat of racism running through it in terms of the 1480 01:23:56.800 --> 01:24:02.880 other robotic women. But it poses some fabulous questions. The 1481 01:24:02.920 --> 01:24:07.640 one I just love is under the Skin the Scarlet Johansson. 1482 01:24:08.199 --> 01:24:12.279 It's just amazing. He took ten years to make that film. 1483 01:24:13.119 --> 01:24:15.680 It's perfect in every way I think. I think it's 1484 01:24:16.119 --> 01:24:21.159 really powerful, and it's also looking at the real woman, 1485 01:24:21.840 --> 01:24:25.960 the alien woman, and once the alien decides to become 1486 01:24:26.279 --> 01:24:29.399 a human woman, of course she's doomed. It reminds me 1487 01:24:29.479 --> 01:24:35.520 of Eyes without a Face, the Frontou movie, where the 1488 01:24:35.560 --> 01:24:42.239 alien separates out from her fake human self and holds 1489 01:24:42.239 --> 01:24:43.439 her face to her face. 1490 01:24:44.479 --> 01:24:47.680 I thought that was amazing. It reminded me a little 1491 01:24:47.680 --> 01:24:52.640 bit of Annihilation with the again that double of Navy 1492 01:24:52.720 --> 01:24:53.840 Portman towards the NDADA. 1493 01:24:54.560 --> 01:24:57.520 Gosh, that's an interesting film. Look, I think too, the 1494 01:24:57.600 --> 01:25:02.159 interesting thing because I'm so interested perssical figures. I think 1495 01:25:02.239 --> 01:25:06.600 that shimmer relates to the ancient I know it's pronounced 1496 01:25:06.680 --> 01:25:09.800 him that you could pronounce it a shimmer of that 1497 01:25:09.960 --> 01:25:13.399 ancient creature that's made up of all sorts of different animals, 1498 01:25:13.840 --> 01:25:17.920 I think, And that's also an interesting The shimmer is 1499 01:25:17.960 --> 01:25:20.680 now used as a term a part of the DNA 1500 01:25:20.760 --> 01:25:25.960 our DNA, which figures strongly in that film too. I 1501 01:25:25.960 --> 01:25:28.439 think it's I think it's origins go right back. I 1502 01:25:28.479 --> 01:25:32.680 suppose that's what I'm trying to say. Yeah, no, science fiction, 1503 01:25:32.800 --> 01:25:37.079 horror is and of course the alien quartets are just wonderful. 1504 01:25:37.319 --> 01:25:38.600 Have you watched Alien Earth? 1505 01:25:39.239 --> 01:25:40.399 Oh no, I haven't. 1506 01:25:41.039 --> 01:25:43.399 I highly recommend it. It's very interesting. 1507 01:25:43.560 --> 01:25:47.840 Yeah, okay, that's had very good reviews, hasn't it. I think, yeah, 1508 01:25:47.920 --> 01:25:51.239 I enjoyed it. There were a couple little plot things 1509 01:25:51.239 --> 01:25:52.840 whereas like I'm not sure if I buy that, but 1510 01:25:53.119 --> 01:25:56.680 overall and again a real idea of what is it 1511 01:25:56.720 --> 01:25:59.760 to be human? They break down things into three different 1512 01:25:59.760 --> 01:26:02.520 type of non human entities right at the beginning and 1513 01:26:02.560 --> 01:26:03.199 play with that. 1514 01:26:03.119 --> 01:26:03.840 Through the rest of us. 1515 01:26:03.920 --> 01:26:07.359 That's right in my alley at there you Go, There 1516 01:26:07.399 --> 01:26:11.000 you Go. Great. I wanted to ask a little bit 1517 01:26:11.039 --> 01:26:14.159 more about switching from him in my skin to Raw 1518 01:26:14.359 --> 01:26:17.279 and just the difference with that one. Whereas within my 1519 01:26:17.399 --> 01:26:21.399 skin she's taking in herself and eating herself, whereas with 1520 01:26:21.560 --> 01:26:24.600 Raw it is much more of the outside and being 1521 01:26:25.800 --> 01:26:29.239 kind of separated out, not just as a young woman, 1522 01:26:29.319 --> 01:26:32.840 but also as it's like her family is a different 1523 01:26:32.880 --> 01:26:37.640 creature altogether that have to end imbibe human flesh. 1524 01:26:37.720 --> 01:26:40.720 I've got a particular theory about that, and I don't 1525 01:26:40.760 --> 01:26:43.640 know how conscious this is with Juliet du Kuno, but 1526 01:26:43.720 --> 01:26:48.439 she's kind of educated and she herself is very interested 1527 01:26:48.479 --> 01:26:51.840 in mythology. Of course, Detaine is based very much on 1528 01:26:51.880 --> 01:26:56.079 the Titans and the whole all the mythology around them. 1529 01:26:56.239 --> 01:27:00.279 So what you get in Raw, the difference between Raw 1530 01:27:00.399 --> 01:27:05.119 and in Mass Raw is more of a conventional cannibal 1531 01:27:05.119 --> 01:27:07.960 film in that she's eating the other and this becomes 1532 01:27:08.000 --> 01:27:11.479 abject because she's collapsing the boundaries between self and other, 1533 01:27:12.159 --> 01:27:16.399 tearing away the skin, opening up the body. Cannibalism, of course, 1534 01:27:16.520 --> 01:27:20.840 is a taboo, so she's immediately this is abject. But 1535 01:27:21.079 --> 01:27:24.279 there you get a cannibal family, which in itself is 1536 01:27:24.319 --> 01:27:29.439 not unusual. But what's unusual about it is that it's 1537 01:27:29.479 --> 01:27:32.720 not the father who's the original cannibal, it's the mother. 1538 01:27:33.520 --> 01:27:33.720 Now. 1539 01:27:34.640 --> 01:27:39.199 Freud's theory of cannibalism, which I always take as a 1540 01:27:39.279 --> 01:27:43.479 kind of symbolic allegorical story, but he argues that in 1541 01:27:43.560 --> 01:27:48.720 primitive early times, society or culture is instigated or comes 1542 01:27:48.760 --> 01:27:53.319 about very gradually because of the institution of three taboos 1543 01:27:54.199 --> 01:27:58.399 that force people to become so called civilized. And there's 1544 01:27:58.399 --> 01:28:02.479 a taboo on cannibalism, the taboo on murder, and the 1545 01:28:02.520 --> 01:28:06.560 taboo on incest, interestingly, all central in the horror film, 1546 01:28:07.279 --> 01:28:11.600 and the taboo on cannibal emerges because he argues, in 1547 01:28:11.760 --> 01:28:15.680 very ancient times, the father was the center and the 1548 01:28:15.720 --> 01:28:19.239 power of the klan or the group, and the father 1549 01:28:19.359 --> 01:28:23.960 kept the women to himself. Eventually, the sons rose up 1550 01:28:24.720 --> 01:28:30.520 against the father because he'd become such a despotic figure 1551 01:28:30.560 --> 01:28:33.479 and murdered him. You probably know the story. It's in 1552 01:28:33.560 --> 01:28:36.640 Totem and taboo and murder the father. But then they're 1553 01:28:36.720 --> 01:28:40.399 so overcome with guilty. What they do is they engage 1554 01:28:40.439 --> 01:28:42.720 in what was used to be known as the totem meal, 1555 01:28:43.760 --> 01:28:48.279 where people and we still do today through communion, actually 1556 01:28:49.000 --> 01:28:53.079 would eat part of the totem animal, the sacred animal 1557 01:28:53.800 --> 01:28:56.640 in a festival to honor the animal, and you could 1558 01:28:56.640 --> 01:28:59.479 only eat that animal on that festival day. And it 1559 01:28:59.520 --> 01:29:02.239 was usually the animal that they actually was central to 1560 01:29:02.319 --> 01:29:02.720 their lives. 1561 01:29:02.760 --> 01:29:03.199 Equalds. 1562 01:29:03.199 --> 01:29:05.439 So in some areas it was the wolf would be 1563 01:29:05.479 --> 01:29:09.920 the total animal, for example, or certain or a bird 1564 01:29:10.039 --> 01:29:13.319 or whatever. So they eat part of the father in 1565 01:29:13.359 --> 01:29:17.479 a sort of meal of honor, and then as a 1566 01:29:17.520 --> 01:29:22.720 totemic meal, and then they say, never again will this happen. 1567 01:29:23.079 --> 01:29:26.840 And this is when they bring a taboo on cannibalism, 1568 01:29:27.600 --> 01:29:30.840 or that's instituted around the eating of the father. The 1569 01:29:30.880 --> 01:29:35.079 taboo on murders also instituted around the eating of the father, 1570 01:29:35.600 --> 01:29:40.159 and the taboo on insists also because around this time 1571 01:29:40.680 --> 01:29:44.000 exogamy is brought in as a practice, and that means 1572 01:29:44.000 --> 01:29:47.479 that the men of a certain group or tribe could 1573 01:29:47.560 --> 01:29:50.319 not marry or have sex with any of the women 1574 01:29:50.359 --> 01:29:53.199 in their group. There was too much infarting over the 1575 01:29:53.239 --> 01:29:57.520 women and it was destroying the clans. So women had 1576 01:29:57.560 --> 01:30:01.720 to marry out someone from a different So these three 1577 01:30:01.760 --> 01:30:06.119 taboos on exogamy, incests, and cannibalism were still we're still 1578 01:30:06.159 --> 01:30:09.439 with it something. They're all still taboo, even though they're 1579 01:30:09.439 --> 01:30:15.199 all violated all the time. So what Raw does is 1580 01:30:16.039 --> 01:30:18.640 it's not the sons who rise up and eat the father. 1581 01:30:19.439 --> 01:30:23.279 It's the wife, the mother who's the cannibal, and the 1582 01:30:23.319 --> 01:30:28.319 father the husband is letting her eat him slowly, not 1583 01:30:28.520 --> 01:30:30.920 enough to kill him. But in the end, in the 1584 01:30:30.960 --> 01:30:34.239 final scene, which has to be the film, ends as 1585 01:30:34.239 --> 01:30:37.159 he opens his shirt and shows his chest, which is 1586 01:30:37.600 --> 01:30:41.880 a bit like Esther's body. It's wounds and healing and 1587 01:30:42.039 --> 01:30:45.159 more wounds and so forth where she's been living off him. 1588 01:30:46.159 --> 01:30:49.479 But by agreement, he's agreed to let her do this. 1589 01:30:49.800 --> 01:30:56.000 So that's an argument that society and culture now in 1590 01:30:56.079 --> 01:31:02.000 these changing times, is all about originates with the mother 1591 01:31:02.119 --> 01:31:05.760 of the feast. It's the mother who makes the feast, 1592 01:31:06.319 --> 01:31:10.560 who creates, who gives birth, who is the origin, the 1593 01:31:10.600 --> 01:31:15.279 point of origin, and the male accepts this and agrees 1594 01:31:15.600 --> 01:31:19.159 to become part of this in an agreement. Rather in 1595 01:31:19.199 --> 01:31:21.920 the earlier Freudian story, women play no right at all, 1596 01:31:22.640 --> 01:31:26.359 and this has passed down through the daughters, not the sons. 1597 01:31:27.039 --> 01:31:30.960 Rawa is a kind of reworking of the Freudian story 1598 01:31:31.000 --> 01:31:35.359 of the origins of cannibalism, the taboo on cannibalism, and 1599 01:31:35.359 --> 01:31:40.920 the beginnings of sociality or society or civilization. I think 1600 01:31:41.039 --> 01:31:46.159 she's actually challenging all the all cannibal movies, which always 1601 01:31:46.199 --> 01:31:53.119 make until the original cannibal movie Trouble every Day the 1602 01:31:53.239 --> 01:31:56.199 clear to he. I think that's the first cannibal film 1603 01:31:56.720 --> 01:32:01.560 with a female cannibal, a really strong female cannibal There 1604 01:32:01.560 --> 01:32:05.560 are suggestions of female cannibals in the nineteen seventies attaining 1605 01:32:05.600 --> 01:32:08.520 cannibal movies that John so. 1606 01:32:09.520 --> 01:32:10.359 I think she's. 1607 01:32:10.239 --> 01:32:15.239 Challenging the myth that cannibalism. The taboo on cannibalism begins 1608 01:32:15.720 --> 01:32:19.199 with the father and the sons in the male and 1609 01:32:19.239 --> 01:32:23.000 it's now a matter of complete change whether taboo on 1610 01:32:23.039 --> 01:32:27.640 canadidism and society in culture are established via the mother 1611 01:32:27.720 --> 01:32:32.439 and the sisters and with the agreement of the father. 1612 01:32:33.159 --> 01:32:37.600 It's certainly playing with the original Broadian story. That's for 1613 01:32:37.720 --> 01:32:42.199 yours to be giving a more feminist interpretation of this taboo. 1614 01:32:43.279 --> 01:32:46.359 I only really treked about the cannibal meal and so forth. 1615 01:32:46.439 --> 01:32:51.399 But I think it's also presents such an interesting critique, 1616 01:32:51.880 --> 01:32:55.479 as Dude Corno does, of the male, the sort of 1617 01:32:55.960 --> 01:33:00.479 very metro aggressive male culture at the veterinary school with 1618 01:33:00.560 --> 01:33:04.159 all the hazing rituals, for example. I think it's also 1619 01:33:04.199 --> 01:33:08.359 a critique of the treatment of the animals all throughout 1620 01:33:08.800 --> 01:33:15.039 those quite surreal nightmarish images we get. Suddenly you're in 1621 01:33:15.039 --> 01:33:17.680 a room and you realize it's full of either dead 1622 01:33:17.680 --> 01:33:24.640 animals or animals preserved, and it's an area that's hard 1623 01:33:24.680 --> 01:33:28.800 he discussed, except there's that long discussion in the film 1624 01:33:29.199 --> 01:33:33.840 about the guy who talks about raping raping a pig, 1625 01:33:34.119 --> 01:33:35.439 Is it. 1626 01:33:35.119 --> 01:33:40.119 A monkey or any it's right, which I think is 1627 01:33:40.159 --> 01:33:44.800 playing on that whole aids comes from monkeys myth. 1628 01:33:45.520 --> 01:33:49.159 It is because her gay friend. I think he points 1629 01:33:49.159 --> 01:33:52.840 that out to him as well. She says, I'm sure 1630 01:33:53.560 --> 01:33:56.960 you know the monkey has feelings. And she also says 1631 01:33:57.560 --> 01:34:01.479 that the monkeys can recognize themselves in mirrors, which is 1632 01:34:01.520 --> 01:34:04.600 a red reference to Lekhan's theory the mirror phase, which 1633 01:34:04.640 --> 01:34:06.439 I thought, there goes Couno again. 1634 01:34:06.520 --> 01:34:07.960 She slips all of his things. 1635 01:34:08.000 --> 01:34:13.479 In the other interesting thing, I discovered the actor Laurent 1636 01:34:13.760 --> 01:34:18.760 luke Pan plays in both films, and he's the actor 1637 01:34:18.920 --> 01:34:25.279 who plays the very intolerant boyfriend in My Skin, and 1638 01:34:25.319 --> 01:34:29.720 he's the father in raw So that must be deliberate. 1639 01:34:30.239 --> 01:34:34.880 He's come to terms now with the female book, which 1640 01:34:35.000 --> 01:34:37.079 wasn't happening in In My Skin. 1641 01:34:37.319 --> 01:34:40.600 I was horrified, are you still working these days? 1642 01:34:40.960 --> 01:34:43.640 Retired in twenty sixteen, I've. 1643 01:34:43.520 --> 01:34:46.520 Never been busier. I bet that's what it sounds like 1644 01:34:46.560 --> 01:34:48.279 with your book projects. 1645 01:34:49.399 --> 01:34:53.520 I did return back. Rawledge got in touch and said, look, 1646 01:34:54.119 --> 01:34:57.079 do you think you could write another fifteen thousand words 1647 01:34:57.119 --> 01:34:59.600 for The Monstrous Feminine and bring it up to date. 1648 01:35:00.399 --> 01:35:04.800 I was, yeah, sure, the pandemic had just started. What 1649 01:35:04.840 --> 01:35:07.319 am I going to do? I said yes, But then 1650 01:35:07.359 --> 01:35:11.439 I started looking at all the films that horror films 1651 01:35:11.720 --> 01:35:14.800 of the last two decades. I was just knocked out. 1652 01:35:15.159 --> 01:35:18.119 I couldn't believe the number of women directing horror movies. 1653 01:35:18.840 --> 01:35:21.000 And so I got back and said, look, I just 1654 01:35:21.119 --> 01:35:25.600 can't possibly cover the changes that have happened in fifteen 1655 01:35:25.640 --> 01:35:28.399 thousand words. I can give you a new book, but 1656 01:35:28.520 --> 01:35:31.800 I can't give you a small section, even though it's 1657 01:35:31.800 --> 01:35:37.520 side the contract for them. So they yes, go ahead return. 1658 01:35:37.800 --> 01:35:40.880 I was a bit exhausted after and I thought, oh gosh, 1659 01:35:40.880 --> 01:35:45.119 thank goodness, that's finished. And then about two or three 1660 01:35:45.119 --> 01:35:47.640 months later, I get an email, so, when can we 1661 01:35:47.720 --> 01:35:51.079 expect the expanded section of the original book? 1662 01:35:51.720 --> 01:35:56.159 That's what do you mean? They still wanted it. So 1663 01:35:56.279 --> 01:35:56.800 I did it. 1664 01:35:57.399 --> 01:36:00.279 But I got thirty thousand words out of them, and 1665 01:36:00.319 --> 01:36:03.359 I added a new section called The Monstrous Feminine as 1666 01:36:03.439 --> 01:36:07.239 non Human because I've become interested in the non human. 1667 01:36:07.880 --> 01:36:11.600 But that was just amazing. It was such a shock. 1668 01:36:12.279 --> 01:36:18.159 When can we expect section there, but there's just there 1669 01:36:18.199 --> 01:36:19.439 was too much to ignore. 1670 01:36:20.439 --> 01:36:20.640 Well. 1671 01:36:20.880 --> 01:36:25.159 I was contacted recently by two women who were doing 1672 01:36:25.239 --> 01:36:29.439 a special edition of a journal on women and horror 1673 01:36:30.319 --> 01:36:33.039 to write an afterward, which I said sure, and then 1674 01:36:33.079 --> 01:36:34.840 they dropped back to me the other day and they said, 1675 01:36:34.840 --> 01:36:37.159 oh my goodness. They said, we put out a call 1676 01:36:37.239 --> 01:36:40.279 for papers, we've had over two hundred and fifty. We 1677 01:36:40.359 --> 01:36:45.479 can't believe it. And now they're doing a companion a book. 1678 01:36:45.920 --> 01:36:48.359 I can't remember that they're doing it with Oxford or Cambridge. 1679 01:36:48.399 --> 01:36:51.800 I can't remember which one they got. They couldn't believe 1680 01:36:51.840 --> 01:36:55.640 the response. When we my colleague and I put out 1681 01:36:55.640 --> 01:36:59.560 the call for papers on film and a non human globally 1682 01:37:00.079 --> 01:37:03.239 through Sensus of Cinema, we thought maybe we'd get about 1683 01:37:03.239 --> 01:37:06.319 thirty responses. We got over one hundred and fifty and 1684 01:37:06.359 --> 01:37:10.239 we can only publish fifteen, which we did and that 1685 01:37:10.279 --> 01:37:14.119 went really well. And then I got contacted by the 1686 01:37:14.239 --> 01:37:19.239 editor from Exeter Press, Becky, and she said, would you 1687 01:37:19.279 --> 01:37:21.720 be interested in doing a book on this topic? And 1688 01:37:21.760 --> 01:37:24.960 we thought, why not. We've got all this fantastic already. 1689 01:37:24.960 --> 01:37:27.760 We don't even have to put out another gulp of papers. 1690 01:37:28.039 --> 01:37:32.640 So that's clearly an interesting new area that's developing in film. 1691 01:37:33.439 --> 01:37:35.119 Is there a deep for that? 1692 01:37:35.199 --> 01:37:39.840 One manuscript goes in this week completed. I think they're 1693 01:37:39.840 --> 01:37:42.000 hoping to bring it out this time next year. 1694 01:37:42.680 --> 01:37:44.479 Thank you so much for your time. This has been 1695 01:37:44.560 --> 01:37:45.640 so very time with you. 1696 01:37:46.079 --> 01:37:50.560 I lovely. Yeah, anytime you have an open invitation, anytime 1697 01:37:50.600 --> 01:37:52.319 you have anything you want to talk about, I'm here 1698 01:37:52.359 --> 01:37:54.520 for you. All right, fantastic. 1699 01:38:28.800 --> 01:38:29.119 All right. 1700 01:38:29.159 --> 01:38:30.960 We were back and we were talking about raw and 1701 01:38:31.319 --> 01:38:34.079 I want to talk about that sheet scene. We get 1702 01:38:34.159 --> 01:38:38.319 a little bit. There's a moment between her looking at 1703 01:38:38.399 --> 01:38:42.119 Andrea and playing the game that we're talking about, and 1704 01:38:42.239 --> 01:38:45.079 that other moment where she's dancing in front of the mirror. 1705 01:38:45.520 --> 01:38:48.600 You cut back to a room and there's a sheet 1706 01:38:48.720 --> 01:38:51.520 over a shape, and then the sheet blows away and 1707 01:38:51.560 --> 01:38:56.720 it's that dog that was being dissected. And then later 1708 01:38:56.800 --> 01:39:00.840 on after the dance scene where she's kissing them and everything, 1709 01:39:01.439 --> 01:39:04.159 then you see her under this and actually, sorry, I 1710 01:39:04.199 --> 01:39:06.680 take it back, after that the video game scene to 1711 01:39:06.760 --> 01:39:11.399 kill yourself, Kill yourself moment her under the sheet. At 1712 01:39:11.439 --> 01:39:13.520 one point I thought I heard the director talk about 1713 01:39:13.560 --> 01:39:16.399 how that was like a withdrawal scene. And that they 1714 01:39:16.560 --> 01:39:21.399 called on the moment from Trainspotting to kind of show 1715 01:39:21.439 --> 01:39:23.680 that because it does look like she's in withdrawals, but 1716 01:39:23.720 --> 01:39:26.319 at the same time, it feels like there's people outside 1717 01:39:26.319 --> 01:39:30.800 of that sheet and she can hear things as well, right, 1718 01:39:30.800 --> 01:39:32.479 And at first I was thinking that she was going 1719 01:39:32.560 --> 01:39:34.960 to be beaten through the sheet, like this was another 1720 01:39:35.560 --> 01:39:40.039 stupid hazing thing, but it just it's such a strange 1721 01:39:40.119 --> 01:39:43.039 but beautiful scene, and especially that blue that comes through 1722 01:39:43.039 --> 01:39:46.840 the sheet, that light blue, that that permeates everything, because 1723 01:39:46.840 --> 01:39:48.960 we're gonna get that blue later on when she gets 1724 01:39:49.000 --> 01:39:51.640 doused with paint, which again, of course reminds me of 1725 01:39:51.680 --> 01:39:54.199 Parallel Fu. But I love that whole thing of her 1726 01:39:54.439 --> 01:39:57.520 in the blue and the guy with the yellow and 1727 01:39:57.560 --> 01:39:59.079 they go make yourselves green. 1728 01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:03.239 A lot of stuff in this film which tends to 1729 01:40:03.359 --> 01:40:08.000 move between real and surreal, and just like sliding back 1730 01:40:08.039 --> 01:40:11.279 and forth between them that your initial response is, oh 1731 01:40:11.319 --> 01:40:14.000 my god, it's another one of these stupid hazing things. 1732 01:40:14.680 --> 01:40:18.640 And then when she throws the sheet off and wakes up, 1733 01:40:18.720 --> 01:40:22.399 I felt like that was her sort of nightmare of 1734 01:40:22.439 --> 01:40:26.800 how she was physically feeling and whether it was withdrawal. 1735 01:40:27.720 --> 01:40:29.720 I feel like what it should really be is it's 1736 01:40:29.920 --> 01:40:35.359 her hunger rising up because she hasn't fed, and so 1737 01:40:35.479 --> 01:40:41.600 she's going through all this really painful bodily discomfort because 1738 01:40:41.640 --> 01:40:44.560 her body's craving something that she's not giving it. And 1739 01:40:44.640 --> 01:40:48.640 so I felt like it was a visual manifestation of 1740 01:40:48.680 --> 01:40:52.479 how she was feeling, but with the distraction or with 1741 01:40:52.560 --> 01:40:55.920 the misdirection of making us think, oh no, this is 1742 01:40:55.960 --> 01:40:58.239 like one of those hazing things. And it's like from 1743 01:40:58.439 --> 01:41:01.239 Full Metal Jacket where the guy gets hit with the 1744 01:41:02.079 --> 01:41:06.279 soap all he's held down in bed because he behaved improperly. 1745 01:41:06.960 --> 01:41:08.680 So like that was the first thing that came to 1746 01:41:08.760 --> 01:41:10.800 my mind when I had seen it, was it's like 1747 01:41:10.880 --> 01:41:14.000 that scene in Full Metal Jacket and it's horrible. And 1748 01:41:14.039 --> 01:41:16.159 then I was like, oh wait, I think this is 1749 01:41:17.239 --> 01:41:19.399 just a reflection of how she feels. 1750 01:41:20.079 --> 01:41:21.880 My thought was it was a dream, but I think 1751 01:41:21.880 --> 01:41:24.039 it is a withdrawal, and it is like a hallucination 1752 01:41:24.079 --> 01:41:28.359 from the withdrawal dream hallucination withdrawal because also I don't 1753 01:41:28.359 --> 01:41:29.720 know if you noticed, but there's a couple of times 1754 01:41:29.720 --> 01:41:32.600 when the rash comes back on her and when she's 1755 01:41:32.600 --> 01:41:35.600 at one point using her sister's medats medicine cabinet. She 1756 01:41:35.680 --> 01:41:38.800 notices that her sister has the same cream, and so 1757 01:41:38.920 --> 01:41:41.720 that has to be like when they're in withdrawal, that rash, 1758 01:41:41.880 --> 01:41:43.920 you know that. I think that's again a very subtle 1759 01:41:43.960 --> 01:41:46.479 thing that you have to notice throughout and I have 1760 01:41:46.520 --> 01:41:47.680 a feeling, yeah, it was withdrawal. 1761 01:41:48.880 --> 01:41:51.439 I love the echo to of her with all that 1762 01:41:51.479 --> 01:41:54.479 blue paint and when she's washing herself off, and we're 1763 01:41:54.479 --> 01:41:56.840 going to get kind of the mirror image of that, 1764 01:41:56.920 --> 01:41:59.520 almost the negative image of that with her sister later 1765 01:41:59.600 --> 01:42:03.439 on when after she kills Adrian spoilers after she kills 1766 01:42:03.479 --> 01:42:07.640 Adrian and she's covered in blood, and Justine's kind of 1767 01:42:08.199 --> 01:42:11.000 last real act that we see with their sister before 1768 01:42:11.479 --> 01:42:15.439 she's in jail is cleaning her off, getting all the 1769 01:42:15.479 --> 01:42:18.600 blood off of her, as opposed to hear with Justine 1770 01:42:18.640 --> 01:42:21.479 with all the blue paint and finding that little chunk 1771 01:42:21.680 --> 01:42:24.479 in her cheek and eating that and just finally like 1772 01:42:24.520 --> 01:42:28.039 getting a little bit of satisfaction from the hunger that 1773 01:42:28.079 --> 01:42:31.239 she has. I mean, that poor guy in the yellow 1774 01:42:31.239 --> 01:42:34.960 paint doesn't know what hits him, and the red of 1775 01:42:35.079 --> 01:42:38.079 the bitten through lip or the missing lip makes it 1776 01:42:38.119 --> 01:42:40.840 even more stark against that yellow paint. 1777 01:42:41.239 --> 01:42:44.760 And again she goes to something that people can identify with, 1778 01:42:44.920 --> 01:42:47.359 and this hays like the hair is something that that 1779 01:42:48.119 --> 01:42:50.920 gross feeling of having hair in your mouth, but also 1780 01:42:51.960 --> 01:42:55.800 if you accidentally bite your lip, or if your lips 1781 01:42:55.800 --> 01:42:58.680 are too dry and they crack open like you can. 1782 01:42:59.159 --> 01:43:02.920 You have a visceral connection to both of those images 1783 01:43:03.439 --> 01:43:08.800 that is very strong, whereas something less familiar might not 1784 01:43:09.159 --> 01:43:11.840 have hit as hard, even though you could have gone 1785 01:43:11.880 --> 01:43:16.399 with something more spectacular, like she could have ripped off 1786 01:43:16.439 --> 01:43:17.199 a big. 1787 01:43:17.000 --> 01:43:17.520 Chunk of bit. 1788 01:43:18.199 --> 01:43:20.760 I feel like she keeps it at a level where 1789 01:43:20.760 --> 01:43:24.640 we can identify with it easily, and that in many 1790 01:43:24.680 --> 01:43:28.560 ways makes it a stronger thing because we do go, 1791 01:43:28.920 --> 01:43:33.520 oh wow, I know what, that's disgusting, that hurts. 1792 01:43:35.119 --> 01:43:38.199 I really appreciate too that it is the end of 1793 01:43:38.520 --> 01:43:45.640 this whole hazing time when the discovery of Adrian's body happens, 1794 01:43:45.760 --> 01:43:49.319 that we hear those little honks from the horn, and 1795 01:43:49.319 --> 01:43:52.159 you get those beautiful shots of the campus again going 1796 01:43:52.199 --> 01:43:56.079 back to that brutalist architecture, and you get some war 1797 01:43:56.119 --> 01:43:58.479 shots now off some of the students kind of coming out. 1798 01:43:58.479 --> 01:44:01.119 It's almost like, you know, a brand new day kind 1799 01:44:01.199 --> 01:44:04.199 of thing, and then you know, cut to her in 1800 01:44:04.239 --> 01:44:07.000 bed with him, and it's like, okay, well they've had 1801 01:44:07.000 --> 01:44:11.359 this passionate night together and you already know that she 1802 01:44:11.800 --> 01:44:15.479 might have moments where she doesn't remember things. She woke 1803 01:44:15.560 --> 01:44:18.880 up pretty messed up earlier. Here she wakes up and 1804 01:44:18.920 --> 01:44:21.680 she's got that big fucking gash on her face from 1805 01:44:21.720 --> 01:44:25.479 her sister biting her, and it's just this really lovely 1806 01:44:25.520 --> 01:44:28.319 scene of this guy in bed with her and ends 1807 01:44:28.399 --> 01:44:30.520 up being I wrote in my notes, it's like The 1808 01:44:30.560 --> 01:44:32.760 Godfather when she discovers Yeah. 1809 01:44:32.800 --> 01:44:35.680 It totally, it totally is that's really that's a really 1810 01:44:35.680 --> 01:44:36.319 great reference. 1811 01:44:36.359 --> 01:44:37.199 Totally. 1812 01:44:37.560 --> 01:44:40.359 Yeah, especially the way she feels the blood, because I 1813 01:44:40.439 --> 01:44:43.399 think in The Godfather that's how he realizes. It's feeling 1814 01:44:43.439 --> 01:44:48.520 the wetness that makes him realize there's something wrong. But 1815 01:44:48.960 --> 01:44:54.159 that scene was incredibly well done, and you wasn't there 1816 01:44:54.199 --> 01:44:57.079 also blood on her face. I don't even know if 1817 01:44:57.119 --> 01:45:00.359 she sampled some of his flesh or or not. 1818 01:45:01.720 --> 01:45:04.640 I don't think she does. She's got blood on her face, 1819 01:45:04.720 --> 01:45:07.079 but it's from the bite from her sister. 1820 01:45:07.600 --> 01:45:08.840 From just from the bite. 1821 01:45:09.279 --> 01:45:11.680 The way she discovered it was she was reaching under 1822 01:45:11.680 --> 01:45:13.479 the cover. She was like caressing his body, and then 1823 01:45:13.479 --> 01:45:15.720 she suddenly pulds her hand out and her hands covered 1824 01:45:15.720 --> 01:45:19.239 in blood, and then she starts She actually embraces him 1825 01:45:19.239 --> 01:45:21.479 and says she's sorry because she thought she did it. 1826 01:45:22.039 --> 01:45:23.840 So she then starts messing with the body, and that's 1827 01:45:23.840 --> 01:45:25.600 how she gets blood on herself. 1828 01:45:26.359 --> 01:45:30.119 I thought, there, you see something earlier, but I I 1829 01:45:30.119 --> 01:45:33.720 don't know. But the sense of also like having these 1830 01:45:33.760 --> 01:45:37.960 blackouts or not knowing exactly what she've done again kind 1831 01:45:37.960 --> 01:45:40.279 of takes me back to were wolves because it's that 1832 01:45:40.399 --> 01:45:44.039 sense of you transform, you do something horrific, and then 1833 01:45:44.039 --> 01:45:49.239 you transform back, and then whether it's like a defense 1834 01:45:49.359 --> 01:45:53.239 mechanism that you can't remember, or that it's actually part 1835 01:45:53.319 --> 01:45:57.880 of that whole werewolf mythology that you can't remember. Like 1836 01:45:58.399 --> 01:46:01.399 that also made me think that this was more of 1837 01:46:01.439 --> 01:46:03.199 a go were wolfy kind of tail. 1838 01:46:03.920 --> 01:46:07.439 Well, yeah, after she finds all that blood, she has 1839 01:46:07.479 --> 01:46:09.720 it all over her body now and she looks what 1840 01:46:09.760 --> 01:46:11.800 does she do? She looks at herself in the mirror 1841 01:46:12.119 --> 01:46:14.520 and starts looking at her mouth and pulling down on 1842 01:46:14.600 --> 01:46:17.399 her mouth, like what have I done? And she blames herself. 1843 01:46:18.039 --> 01:46:20.880 And I think that might be one of the last 1844 01:46:20.920 --> 01:46:24.279 mirror shots until the I would call it a mirror 1845 01:46:24.319 --> 01:46:27.920 shot with her and her sister in prison. What an 1846 01:46:27.960 --> 01:46:31.960 amazing shot of those two faces kind of merged together 1847 01:46:32.399 --> 01:46:35.000 before they break apart, and it's like, now one person 1848 01:46:35.079 --> 01:46:38.199 has their trip that they're taking, the other person has 1849 01:46:38.279 --> 01:46:41.319 their road that they have to go down. And I 1850 01:46:41.479 --> 01:46:44.239 just find that wonderful, the way that they kind of 1851 01:46:44.279 --> 01:46:47.760 break apart at that moment. And I don't know what 1852 01:46:47.800 --> 01:46:51.439 the hell's going to happen to Alexia in prison. I mean, 1853 01:46:51.520 --> 01:46:54.279 she's going to have to figure out something when it 1854 01:46:54.279 --> 01:46:56.640 comes to how to feed herself. 1855 01:46:57.520 --> 01:47:00.920 We have seen in prison fight scenes people biting each 1856 01:47:00.920 --> 01:47:04.279 other's ear off, so I'm sure she could probably find 1857 01:47:04.319 --> 01:47:07.800 a way, not that she wouldn't be punished, but I 1858 01:47:07.840 --> 01:47:11.399 think there would be opportunity to attack your fellow prisoners. 1859 01:47:11.720 --> 01:47:15.000 But also in that scene, the way Justine presses her 1860 01:47:15.640 --> 01:47:19.680 chewed off cheek up against the glass like she doesn't 1861 01:47:20.560 --> 01:47:22.640 You've seen a lot of scenes where people will kiss 1862 01:47:22.680 --> 01:47:25.520 each other through the glass and press their lips, but 1863 01:47:25.600 --> 01:47:30.000 she presses the section of her cheek that Alexia has 1864 01:47:30.039 --> 01:47:32.760 bitten off up to her as the. 1865 01:47:32.680 --> 01:47:36.479 Flipoff that's right after Alexia there's a flipoff and she's 1866 01:47:36.520 --> 01:47:39.680 showing her bitten off finger like you did this to me, 1867 01:47:40.600 --> 01:47:43.800 And that actually reminds me of going back again to 1868 01:47:43.880 --> 01:47:48.479 the Adrian's death scene, the sister Alexis is sitting in 1869 01:47:48.520 --> 01:47:51.079 the exact same spot where I believe that's the exact 1870 01:47:51.079 --> 01:47:53.319 same spot where she was eating her finger. It's kind 1871 01:47:53.319 --> 01:47:55.239 of like, all right, you ain't mi, you sat there 1872 01:47:55.279 --> 01:47:56.680 in that spot eating my finger. 1873 01:47:56.960 --> 01:47:59.279 I'm sitting here. I just killed your love the person 1874 01:47:59.359 --> 01:48:01.319 you have a crush Sean, which is I don't know. 1875 01:48:01.399 --> 01:48:03.199 To me, that's sort of like what's going on because 1876 01:48:03.199 --> 01:48:05.680 it's I think it's the exact same spot. And then, 1877 01:48:05.760 --> 01:48:09.640 like you said, yeah, in the scene again it's that competition. 1878 01:48:09.960 --> 01:48:12.680 But here's my finger that you bit off, here's my 1879 01:48:12.800 --> 01:48:15.439 cheek that So it's cool all the way that gues 1880 01:48:15.479 --> 01:48:18.600 back and forth in a really sisterly way. 1881 01:48:19.560 --> 01:48:21.800 Well, we've talked about so many times that the movie 1882 01:48:21.880 --> 01:48:24.000 kind of pulls the rug out from under us. So 1883 01:48:24.079 --> 01:48:27.439 we are now convinced with Justine that she's the one 1884 01:48:27.439 --> 01:48:31.720 that killed Adrian and has eaten his leg. And then 1885 01:48:32.159 --> 01:48:35.079 we find the ski pole which we saw earlier, and 1886 01:48:35.159 --> 01:48:39.439 then we find Alexia there in that position. I think 1887 01:48:39.479 --> 01:48:41.680 you're totally right. I think that is exactly where that 1888 01:48:41.880 --> 01:48:44.960 finger eating took place. But we find out at the 1889 01:48:45.000 --> 01:48:48.000 same time that Justine finds out that no, it might 1890 01:48:48.039 --> 01:48:50.600 not have been her, it might have been or probably 1891 01:48:50.760 --> 01:48:53.279 was her sister, and her sister just having all the 1892 01:48:53.399 --> 01:48:57.359 blood all the way down, just that she looks very 1893 01:48:57.399 --> 01:49:00.319 Angelina Jolie to me, in that final moment where she's 1894 01:49:00.359 --> 01:49:02.199 looking up at her and she's kind of got those 1895 01:49:02.199 --> 01:49:07.000 same eyes and just like you realize that she's a monster, 1896 01:49:07.159 --> 01:49:10.840 but like to your point, Beth, she's such a pitiable 1897 01:49:10.920 --> 01:49:13.720 monster and such a sympathetic monster where it's just like, 1898 01:49:14.279 --> 01:49:15.680 I don't think she could have helped. 1899 01:49:15.439 --> 01:49:17.720 Herself, and again that's the werewolf, I think. 1900 01:49:18.119 --> 01:49:18.560 Yeah. 1901 01:49:18.560 --> 01:49:20.039 To me, the way she has the blood all over 1902 01:49:20.079 --> 01:49:22.479 her face is like a little kid who just ate 1903 01:49:22.840 --> 01:49:25.560 ice cream. Like to me, it's more like she really 1904 01:49:25.640 --> 01:49:27.279 enjoyed that meal, you know what I mean. 1905 01:49:27.520 --> 01:49:28.239 Felt that way to me. 1906 01:49:28.439 --> 01:49:32.000 The father talks about Alexia as like she was the 1907 01:49:32.000 --> 01:49:35.960 one who was wild, Like maybe that's the difference between 1908 01:49:36.000 --> 01:49:37.680 the two of them, in the sense like the mom 1909 01:49:37.760 --> 01:49:41.920 thought maybe she could control Justine's hunger because she didn't 1910 01:49:41.960 --> 01:49:46.640 display that innate wildness to begin with, but they make 1911 01:49:46.760 --> 01:49:50.119 reference to the fact like Alexia did whatever she wanted, 1912 01:49:50.439 --> 01:49:53.720 like we couldn't control her as a child, And yes, 1913 01:49:53.920 --> 01:49:56.079 so that reference to her like being the kid with 1914 01:49:56.119 --> 01:49:59.479 all the jam on her face or something after she's 1915 01:49:59.680 --> 01:50:04.439 gotten into the jar of something. But yeah, I don't 1916 01:50:04.479 --> 01:50:09.359 think she can control herself. I think Alexia had gotten 1917 01:50:09.359 --> 01:50:14.640 to a point of managing her hunger, but I don't 1918 01:50:14.680 --> 01:50:16.800 know if it was the fact that the sister was 1919 01:50:16.840 --> 01:50:21.920 turning as well or just the level of the hunger increasing. 1920 01:50:22.680 --> 01:50:26.800 But I think she loses control at the end. I 1921 01:50:26.880 --> 01:50:30.840 think that that feeding that she does on her roommate 1922 01:50:31.000 --> 01:50:33.119 is something that she couldn't hide in the same way 1923 01:50:33.159 --> 01:50:36.800 she could hide those car crashes. So I don't know 1924 01:50:36.800 --> 01:50:39.640 if it was that that was uncontrollable or you keep 1925 01:50:39.640 --> 01:50:42.399 bringing up like the sister rivalry thing, like it's like 1926 01:50:42.479 --> 01:50:44.800 you took my boyfriend, I'll take your boyfriend kind of thing. 1927 01:50:45.399 --> 01:50:48.479 Was she doing it just to hurt her or was 1928 01:50:48.520 --> 01:50:52.279 it just my hunger's uncontrollable right now and this guy 1929 01:50:52.439 --> 01:50:54.600 is right here and I'm going to. 1930 01:50:54.600 --> 01:50:58.880 Feast, and it feels like there's just a momentary fourth 1931 01:50:58.920 --> 01:51:01.720 wall break at the end when she's talking with her 1932 01:51:01.760 --> 01:51:04.479 father and she looks up and I think it's supposed 1933 01:51:04.479 --> 01:51:06.680 to be her looking at her father, looking him in 1934 01:51:06.680 --> 01:51:09.479 his eyes, but the way that she raises her eyes, 1935 01:51:09.520 --> 01:51:13.199 she kind of looks more at us. And then it's 1936 01:51:13.199 --> 01:51:16.399 funny that the father really gets the last word and 1937 01:51:16.560 --> 01:51:20.560 is the last image with those massive scars all over 1938 01:51:20.600 --> 01:51:23.159 his chest. Like if there's one moment that reminds me 1939 01:51:23.199 --> 01:51:25.720 of like a martyr's or something, it's that with the 1940 01:51:25.960 --> 01:51:29.159 just the old wounds that we get to see, and 1941 01:51:29.199 --> 01:51:32.439 it's just him saying, I'm sure you'll find a solution, honey, 1942 01:51:32.680 --> 01:51:36.800 and then boom cut too Raw with that music pounding again. 1943 01:51:37.000 --> 01:51:40.960 It's like, holy shit, It's like you just took us 1944 01:51:41.000 --> 01:51:44.680 on this ride, and I am so thankful for it. 1945 01:51:44.720 --> 01:51:49.079 I mean, I tried to watch Titane and I just 1946 01:51:49.760 --> 01:51:51.760 had a hard time getting into it. 1947 01:51:52.039 --> 01:51:53.079 Oh I love it. 1948 01:51:53.079 --> 01:51:55.960 Oh okay, please tell me what you enjoyed about that one, 1949 01:51:55.960 --> 01:51:58.119 because I just had a hard time with it. 1950 01:51:58.119 --> 01:52:00.600 It was just weirder like the Love It, but it 1951 01:52:00.640 --> 01:52:03.560 was still like dealing with this sense of family. So 1952 01:52:04.600 --> 01:52:08.760 part of what I like about Raw also is that 1953 01:52:08.800 --> 01:52:12.840 it's really not about cannibalism. It's like zombie films. Zombie 1954 01:52:12.880 --> 01:52:15.079 films aren't really about zombies a lot of times, or 1955 01:52:15.119 --> 01:52:17.640 the best ones aren't there about something else. The zombies 1956 01:52:17.640 --> 01:52:20.920 are this blank slate. So to me, the cannibalism in 1957 01:52:21.000 --> 01:52:26.560 this was a mechanism to explore this sense of family ties, 1958 01:52:26.600 --> 01:52:29.600 because what the father's telling her is is I love 1959 01:52:29.640 --> 01:52:34.079 your mother, and we've come to this arrangement that we 1960 01:52:34.159 --> 01:52:38.079 can manage what's going on, and I hope you figure 1961 01:52:38.079 --> 01:52:40.760 out something similar. I don't know if he's saying, find 1962 01:52:40.760 --> 01:52:43.199 a guy who will let you feed on him now 1963 01:52:43.239 --> 01:52:46.680 and again, but and again I tried. I watched it again, 1964 01:52:46.720 --> 01:52:49.079 and I tried looking at the scars to see were 1965 01:52:49.119 --> 01:52:52.800 some fresher than others or were they all old, because 1966 01:52:52.800 --> 01:52:55.560 that's the one thing I couldn't figure out. Has the 1967 01:52:55.600 --> 01:52:59.680 mom stopped feeding? Has she gone vegetarian because she's been 1968 01:52:59.720 --> 01:53:04.279 able to control her personal hunger and those scars are 1969 01:53:04.319 --> 01:53:07.399 all from the past. I wasn't sure. And I was 1970 01:53:07.399 --> 01:53:09.680 trying to look like if there was one fresh wound, 1971 01:53:09.720 --> 01:53:13.359 one that looked a little raw at that point. So 1972 01:53:13.640 --> 01:53:17.439 that's something I don't know and I can't figure out. 1973 01:53:17.560 --> 01:53:19.920 But again, what I like about her film is she 1974 01:53:20.119 --> 01:53:22.560 doesn't she could have had him said like, oh yeah, 1975 01:53:22.640 --> 01:53:25.760 mom fed off would be last night. No, like she 1976 01:53:26.000 --> 01:53:30.239 just plays it out and lets us think about what 1977 01:53:30.439 --> 01:53:33.439 some of these options could be in which one of 1978 01:53:33.439 --> 01:53:36.560 them might be happening. But yeah, that was the one 1979 01:53:36.600 --> 01:53:38.600 thing I was I was trying to look very carefully 1980 01:53:38.640 --> 01:53:40.920 to see or any of those new. 1981 01:53:41.800 --> 01:53:44.000 My interpretation was that this is what they do. He 1982 01:53:44.079 --> 01:53:44.760 probably has them. 1983 01:53:44.920 --> 01:53:49.319 He's covered head to toe wherever his clothing can cover him. 1984 01:53:49.399 --> 01:53:52.039 Yeah, that was the impression I got, And this is 1985 01:53:52.119 --> 01:53:52.880 how we managed. 1986 01:53:52.920 --> 01:53:54.920 She just apparently you don't need that much meat, and 1987 01:53:55.000 --> 01:53:57.840 they were just nibbling on the dead passengers in the 1988 01:53:58.159 --> 01:53:59.880 the sister was just nibbling on the brainers. 1989 01:54:00.520 --> 01:54:02.159 It does seem like they just need a little bit 1990 01:54:02.279 --> 01:54:03.000 they don't need to have. 1991 01:54:03.880 --> 01:54:08.399 Obviously, even with the leg at the end, Adran's leg 1992 01:54:09.439 --> 01:54:11.039 is just it's. 1993 01:54:10.920 --> 01:54:13.359 Not like she she went to town completely on him. 1994 01:54:13.439 --> 01:54:15.399 She ate a lot of that leg, a lot of that. 1995 01:54:15.960 --> 01:54:17.800 Seemly they don't need. They don't need a ton of 1996 01:54:18.199 --> 01:54:19.239 ton of human flesh. 1997 01:54:20.600 --> 01:54:23.439 But also if that's like the most she ate of 1998 01:54:23.560 --> 01:54:27.199 human flesh, that kind of explains kind of her like 1999 01:54:27.359 --> 01:54:29.680 weird state where it's like when you eat too much 2000 01:54:29.760 --> 01:54:32.520 food and your stomach's too full and you just can't move. 2001 01:54:33.199 --> 01:54:36.399 Like maybe those other times she fed, she was trying 2002 01:54:36.399 --> 01:54:39.279 to be careful and not if you devour the body 2003 01:54:39.279 --> 01:54:44.439 too much, the hospital people or the emergency crew is 2004 01:54:44.439 --> 01:54:46.640 going to notice, like, wait, that doesn't look like an 2005 01:54:46.640 --> 01:54:49.399 injury you would have gotten in a car crash. That 2006 01:54:49.439 --> 01:54:53.680 looks like human bites all over. So I don't know 2007 01:54:53.720 --> 01:54:56.520 if she was controlling herself more when she was feeding 2008 01:54:56.520 --> 01:54:58.199 in that way, and this was a time when she 2009 01:54:58.319 --> 01:55:00.439 was just like, I'm just gonna go ahead and eat 2010 01:55:00.479 --> 01:55:02.920 as much as I want. And then she goes into 2011 01:55:02.920 --> 01:55:05.119 that food coma and what do you like? 2012 01:55:06.439 --> 01:55:08.960 But we were talking about Titane and I was curious, why 2013 01:55:09.079 --> 01:55:10.159 you enjoyed that one. 2014 01:55:10.880 --> 01:55:13.600 I have not seen it in a while. I think 2015 01:55:13.640 --> 01:55:16.079 one of the things I really liked. I love films 2016 01:55:16.520 --> 01:55:19.720 where you can't tell where they're going. I like films 2017 01:55:19.920 --> 01:55:22.880 that surprise you along the way. And again, this film 2018 01:55:23.800 --> 01:55:27.560 really felt to be about family. This was a father 2019 01:55:27.640 --> 01:55:31.640 and a daughter in this case, and I just like 2020 01:55:31.720 --> 01:55:34.319 the way it played with everything and the visuals of 2021 01:55:34.359 --> 01:55:37.800 the music, and that was also amazing. It was both 2022 01:55:38.000 --> 01:55:42.279 genre and gender bending, both at the same time, and 2023 01:55:42.399 --> 01:55:46.720 I just appreciated how it pushed the envelope, like it 2024 01:55:46.800 --> 01:55:50.840 wasn't like anything else that I was seeing. And I 2025 01:55:50.920 --> 01:55:53.199 love the fact that it was a woman directing it 2026 01:55:53.680 --> 01:55:56.880 and taking it to extreme places. I also liked films 2027 01:55:56.920 --> 01:56:00.239 that go to extremes like that really takes something, take 2028 01:56:00.239 --> 01:56:05.439 an idea, and just go for it with no limits, 2029 01:56:06.159 --> 01:56:08.000 and I felt like she did that with that. I 2030 01:56:08.039 --> 01:56:10.239 don't think I fully understood it, Like when I got 2031 01:56:10.279 --> 01:56:12.560 to the end, I'm not one hundred percent sure of 2032 01:56:12.640 --> 01:56:15.279 maybe what I should take away, but I felt like 2033 01:56:15.319 --> 01:56:20.720 the cinematic experience of it was so enthralling. Like for me, 2034 01:56:21.520 --> 01:56:25.319 if films are dark, or their themes are hard, if 2035 01:56:25.359 --> 01:56:30.119 the filmmaking is intoxicating, I walk away from those films 2036 01:56:30.199 --> 01:56:34.039 just with this kind of joyous feeling, despite the fact 2037 01:56:34.039 --> 01:56:36.800 that the content might not make you feel that way, 2038 01:56:36.960 --> 01:56:40.000 but I get so excited by like the filmmaking. And 2039 01:56:40.039 --> 01:56:42.680 that's what I felt with Titan, Like I felt excited 2040 01:56:42.720 --> 01:56:46.199 by the filmmaking and by where she was going and 2041 01:56:46.239 --> 01:56:50.239 that she wasn't playing it safe or I'm going to 2042 01:56:50.239 --> 01:56:52.800 tone it down now I'm going to try to be 2043 01:56:52.840 --> 01:56:55.119 a little more mainstream or a little more commercial. She 2044 01:56:55.159 --> 01:56:58.520 was like, nope, I'm going to go even further that way. 2045 01:56:58.600 --> 01:57:01.560 The story structure is really aw like it's it's unlike, 2046 01:57:02.039 --> 01:57:04.800 it's very not a normal story structure. It's there's no 2047 01:57:05.079 --> 01:57:07.680 it's you know, it's an unfamiliar kind of story structure, 2048 01:57:07.680 --> 01:57:08.760 which kind of makes it really cool. 2049 01:57:08.840 --> 01:57:09.680 Yeah. 2050 01:57:09.800 --> 01:57:12.680 Yeah, and I'm glad that a great thing. On that 2051 01:57:12.760 --> 01:57:17.920 audio commentary where Westwood was asking her, you know, oh, 2052 01:57:18.000 --> 01:57:20.479 you're gonna, you know, change genres, you know, is it 2053 01:57:20.479 --> 01:57:22.720 always gonna be body horror? And she's like, you might 2054 01:57:22.760 --> 01:57:24.680 as well just ask me if I'm gonna start speaking 2055 01:57:24.720 --> 01:57:28.000 Japanese in a week, you know, Like, no, it's this 2056 01:57:28.039 --> 01:57:29.720 is what I do, this is what I like. And 2057 01:57:29.760 --> 01:57:32.239 I'm like, okay, great. You know, to hear that her 2058 01:57:32.319 --> 01:57:35.479 new film, thank you Susan for turning me on to Alpha. 2059 01:57:35.840 --> 01:57:38.359 I'm curious to see that one too. Also body Horror, 2060 01:57:38.359 --> 01:57:40.600 and I'm like, yeah, great, yeah, make this your thing 2061 01:57:40.680 --> 01:57:45.000 because even her early film Junior very body horror as well, 2062 01:57:45.199 --> 01:57:49.359 and same actresses raw very much like you know, talking 2063 01:57:49.359 --> 01:57:51.800 about peeling the skin back and stuff. It's very much 2064 01:57:51.840 --> 01:57:54.439 a metamorphosis that happens in that one as well, where 2065 01:57:54.479 --> 01:57:58.359 like she grows overnight and becomes a woman, like being 2066 01:57:58.399 --> 01:57:59.880 born from a cocoon. Almost. 2067 01:58:00.319 --> 01:58:03.439 Yeah, and it's super cool that Justine named Justine pops 2068 01:58:03.479 --> 01:58:06.760 into Titan Te. It's the same actor, same name, and 2069 01:58:06.800 --> 01:58:08.119 she even uses the name Alexia. 2070 01:58:08.119 --> 01:58:08.319 Again. 2071 01:58:09.039 --> 01:58:12.279 I like that too, when directors play with their I'm 2072 01:58:12.319 --> 01:58:14.039 sure she'll be doing that movie to movie kind of 2073 01:58:14.039 --> 01:58:16.359 playing with the characters visiting each movie. 2074 01:58:16.439 --> 01:58:17.079 Yeah. 2075 01:58:17.279 --> 01:58:19.720 Yeah, I didn't look to see if there's a Justine 2076 01:58:19.720 --> 01:58:22.920 and Alpha's, but I would not be surprised. And Zari 2077 01:58:23.000 --> 01:58:26.079 keeps saying Alpha's like the TV show with David Strathairn, 2078 01:58:26.159 --> 01:58:27.920 which was canceled way too soon. 2079 01:58:28.359 --> 01:58:29.920 Just one thing I want to bring up, which I 2080 01:58:29.960 --> 01:58:33.520 couldn't stop thinking of, of this movie that I had 2081 01:58:33.560 --> 01:58:35.039 seen that's a documentary. 2082 01:58:35.880 --> 01:58:36.840 So this Vivie. 2083 01:58:37.039 --> 01:58:40.279 It's this fiterary school that is this hazing week. It's 2084 01:58:40.279 --> 01:58:43.640 so evil and wicked. There's something really ominous about it. 2085 01:58:44.319 --> 01:58:47.600 And I happen to go to the New York Academy 2086 01:58:47.640 --> 01:58:50.319 of Medicine because I love science stuff. They sometimes show 2087 01:58:50.399 --> 01:58:53.880 like weird science documentaries and there's this one. It came 2088 01:58:53.920 --> 01:58:58.479 out in twenty twenty two called De Humani Corpus Fabrica. 2089 01:58:59.319 --> 01:59:01.439 It reminds me so much. 2090 01:59:01.720 --> 01:59:04.079 It evokes so much in this movie because it's so 2091 01:59:04.199 --> 01:59:06.920 visceral still, it's like almost a fred It's like a 2092 01:59:06.960 --> 01:59:10.920 Frederick Wiseman film where they're it's a slow burned slow 2093 01:59:11.079 --> 01:59:14.279 just taking in everything in this French hospital, and it's 2094 01:59:14.319 --> 01:59:15.760 it's not a high class hospital. 2095 01:59:15.760 --> 01:59:18.119 It's like a probably a relatively low sees hospital. 2096 01:59:18.479 --> 01:59:21.279 But they're filming a caesarean section and you are just 2097 01:59:21.479 --> 01:59:25.319 watching every minute of this. They're showing someone being prepped 2098 01:59:25.359 --> 01:59:27.439 for brain surgery while they're awake and their brain is 2099 01:59:27.479 --> 01:59:30.039 like split open, their heads, their skull is split open. 2100 01:59:30.359 --> 01:59:34.279 They're showing the psych word and following the patients and 2101 01:59:34.319 --> 01:59:36.640 listening to them. They're even just like sitting at the 2102 01:59:36.920 --> 01:59:40.359 nurse's desk and listening. There's like a prostate operation. 2103 01:59:40.560 --> 01:59:43.880 It's and it's the way they film it. 2104 01:59:43.199 --> 01:59:46.199 Is beautiful, but it's grotesque and it's like that kind 2105 01:59:46.239 --> 01:59:49.119 of thing. But it has a surprise ending, which I'm 2106 01:59:49.159 --> 01:59:50.520 gonna say, and if anybody wants to see it, just 2107 01:59:50.520 --> 01:59:51.560 fast forward a minute or two. 2108 01:59:51.760 --> 01:59:53.960 But the surprise ending is they end up in. 2109 01:59:54.000 --> 01:59:57.479 This attic where the doctors hang out, and on the 2110 01:59:57.520 --> 02:00:00.720 wall is this huge mural of the doctor, like past 2111 02:00:00.720 --> 02:00:05.399 doctors and present doctors in this bacchanalia. They're like pans, 2112 02:00:05.439 --> 02:00:08.640 they're like drinking and they're having sex and it's crazy. 2113 02:00:08.680 --> 02:00:12.039 It's like you realized that this hospital has a tradition 2114 02:00:12.119 --> 02:00:14.600 of the doctors just being like, I don't know. It 2115 02:00:15.479 --> 02:00:18.600 just shows this sort of this really strange side of 2116 02:00:18.640 --> 02:00:21.359 these doctors who are perfectly comfortable with having their portrait 2117 02:00:21.640 --> 02:00:25.000 on this mural that's clearly a tradition that's just about 2118 02:00:25.039 --> 02:00:27.640 decadence and sex and. 2119 02:00:27.920 --> 02:00:28.640 It's so weird. 2120 02:00:28.760 --> 02:00:31.159 I can't explain to you how weird this movie is, 2121 02:00:31.199 --> 02:00:34.600 but it really evoke the same feeling of this weird 2122 02:00:35.079 --> 02:00:37.560 hospital where all these creepy things are going on. 2123 02:00:37.800 --> 02:00:40.279 So I highly recommend it. It's really hard to get through. 2124 02:00:40.479 --> 02:00:43.119 And people were walking out of that film too because 2125 02:00:43.159 --> 02:00:46.239 it was so hard, so hard to watch. Yeah, so 2126 02:00:46.279 --> 02:00:49.720 that's my recommendation for pair these two movies together for 2127 02:00:49.800 --> 02:00:50.319 your friends. 2128 02:00:50.359 --> 02:00:52.800 It's great pairing for pairing. 2129 02:00:52.880 --> 02:00:55.560 I would say, also check out I Believe She's French. 2130 02:00:55.640 --> 02:01:01.119 Also Corley Fargier, who did the substance and Revenge. I 2131 02:01:01.119 --> 02:01:03.960 also feel like those are body horror films that have 2132 02:01:04.039 --> 02:01:08.039 a very feminist sland different tone than what I think 2133 02:01:09.279 --> 02:01:13.079 Julia does, but I think they pair well. And also 2134 02:01:13.399 --> 02:01:15.720 it gives you, i think, a little sense of this 2135 02:01:15.800 --> 02:01:18.760 kind of extreme French horror from a feminine side. 2136 02:01:19.800 --> 02:01:23.560 I just found her earlier film Reality Plus, which I 2137 02:01:23.600 --> 02:01:26.199 look forward to seeing. I haven't seen Revenge, but I 2138 02:01:26.279 --> 02:01:29.359 did finally just watch the Substance. I'm still not sure 2139 02:01:29.359 --> 02:01:31.479 what I think about it, because it's just it's such 2140 02:01:31.520 --> 02:01:34.359 a strange film, you know, about the objectification of women, 2141 02:01:34.399 --> 02:01:38.600 that really objectifies to women throughout the entire thing. I'm like, 2142 02:01:39.199 --> 02:01:43.600 I really never thought of Margaret Qually as being just 2143 02:01:43.800 --> 02:01:48.479 this incredibly hot, but there's I'm feeling the vapors as 2144 02:01:48.479 --> 02:01:49.239 I'm watching this. 2145 02:01:49.479 --> 02:01:52.479 You know, I just looked that it kept upping the ante, 2146 02:01:52.479 --> 02:01:55.079 like you think you've come to the end, like Okay, 2147 02:01:55.079 --> 02:01:57.279 it's not going to go any further than this, and 2148 02:01:57.319 --> 02:02:01.159 then it does, and then okay, it can't find another 2149 02:02:01.279 --> 02:02:03.600 level to go to, and then it does, and then 2150 02:02:03.680 --> 02:02:07.680 all right, we're and it does. And so I appreciated that. 2151 02:02:07.920 --> 02:02:09.720 All right, we're going to take another break and play 2152 02:02:09.760 --> 02:02:13.159 preview for next week's show. Right after these brief messages. 2153 02:02:15.399 --> 02:02:18.560 Sinan Bargo is a district son in la A Bijapur, 2154 02:02:18.600 --> 02:02:23.960 Alim Koda Pierre manifest. But I say si la apia 2155 02:02:24.000 --> 02:02:26.119 for terlibian asta. 2156 02:02:25.960 --> 02:02:52.920 Geno joys to the end and pass amintain sana. 2157 02:03:02.159 --> 02:03:04.640 It was mean saying I don't kill a hum una 2158 02:03:04.720 --> 02:03:06.359 faster you'n. The format is clabby too. 2159 02:03:06.920 --> 02:03:08.319 You can be the wrong. 2160 02:03:08.600 --> 02:03:12.399 Last carday as there are superstition's you go. The lament said, 2161 02:03:15.560 --> 02:03:18.800 so you number the same here the iman went through 2162 02:03:18.840 --> 02:03:39.439 Frentian go kimber misterms of my worth. There are Alito 2163 02:03:39.520 --> 02:03:43.840 the man dad into the list. I said, they see 2164 02:03:43.880 --> 02:03:48.479 no sentence. It's a solo. Probably say now they look 2165 02:03:48.520 --> 02:03:50.479 you stayed by a man held them on you. 2166 02:03:51.000 --> 02:03:55.600 I'll look gard God, the Father commands, thee got the 2167 02:03:55.720 --> 02:04:01.760 Sun commands, see God, the Holy galst command Stee con 2168 02:04:01.840 --> 02:04:21.439 Claudio Brook, David Silva, Dina Rome, Susanna Kamini, Ariana Roe, 2169 02:04:22.199 --> 02:04:54.159 Dina French Ada Dirihita for Juan Lopez Motsuma. 2170 02:04:54.680 --> 02:04:56.520 That's why we'll be back next week when they look 2171 02:04:56.560 --> 02:04:59.479 at al Yukarda. Until then, I want to thank my 2172 02:04:59.560 --> 02:05:01.920 co host Susan and Beth. So Beth, what is the 2173 02:05:02.039 --> 02:05:02.960 latest with you, ma'am? 2174 02:05:03.520 --> 02:05:06.079 As usual, I'm working with film Geek San Diego and 2175 02:05:06.279 --> 02:05:09.199 we are doing our programming at Digital Gym Cinema, so 2176 02:05:09.359 --> 02:05:12.079 we are rounding out the end of our year of 2177 02:05:12.279 --> 02:05:17.199 international horror and neo noir, so that's pretty exciting for us. 2178 02:05:17.279 --> 02:05:20.159 We also do Bonkers half assed Midnights where we show 2179 02:05:20.239 --> 02:05:22.720 some bonkers films, not quite at midnight, but we get 2180 02:05:22.760 --> 02:05:25.680 you out by midnight and we'll be looking for what 2181 02:05:25.840 --> 02:05:29.279 our theme will be for twenty twenty six for films there. 2182 02:05:30.000 --> 02:05:34.119 And we've just wrapped our annual Secret Morgue last month, 2183 02:05:34.279 --> 02:05:37.199 so that was Secret Morgue six or as we like 2184 02:05:37.279 --> 02:05:40.760 to call it, Secret Morgue sixty six six, Satanic Panic 2185 02:05:41.319 --> 02:05:42.399 or the Devil made us do that? 2186 02:05:43.039 --> 02:05:44.319 And Susan, what's happening with you? 2187 02:05:44.760 --> 02:05:47.399 I'm still writing somewhat. I just fort a piece on 2188 02:05:47.640 --> 02:05:49.880 statistics and comics. So I'm a little bit different, a 2189 02:05:49.920 --> 02:05:52.079 little bit in different world lately. I'm in academia. 2190 02:05:52.359 --> 02:05:54.720 I'm going I went back at a very very very 2191 02:05:54.800 --> 02:05:55.279 late age to. 2192 02:05:55.279 --> 02:05:57.359 Get a PhD in developmental psych I'm in my second 2193 02:05:57.439 --> 02:06:01.159 year and I highly recommend Millie which people do it. 2194 02:06:01.399 --> 02:06:01.760 Just do it. 2195 02:06:01.880 --> 02:06:02.920 It's a good time to do it. 2196 02:06:03.840 --> 02:06:06.600 And so anyway, I wrote a piece for It's called 2197 02:06:07.680 --> 02:06:11.199 Nightingale and it's the publication of the Data Visual Society 2198 02:06:11.279 --> 02:06:13.119 something like that, and it's a cool little piece with 2199 02:06:13.199 --> 02:06:16.920 Andrew Gelman about statistics and comics, which is fun film. 2200 02:06:17.000 --> 02:06:20.560 People like comics too. That's what I'm doing, like helping kids, 2201 02:06:20.800 --> 02:06:23.479 like learning about kids in digital culture. So it's really fascinating. 2202 02:06:23.760 --> 02:06:25.319 I'm just glad you survived the hazing. 2203 02:06:26.000 --> 02:06:28.760 It was very gory and it did not have to 2204 02:06:28.800 --> 02:06:31.359 do with rabbits kidneys, but it had to do with 2205 02:06:31.479 --> 02:06:32.680 things that I'm not going to talk about. 2206 02:06:33.159 --> 02:06:34.960 Well, thank you again ladies for being on the show, 2207 02:06:35.039 --> 02:06:37.800 and thanks to everybody for listening. Want to support physical 2208 02:06:37.880 --> 02:06:39.920 media and get great movies in the mail, head over 2209 02:06:40.000 --> 02:06:42.760 to scarecrow dot com and try Scarecrow Video is incredible 2210 02:06:42.840 --> 02:06:47.319 rent by mail service. You'll find films there entirely unavailable elsewhere. 2211 02:06:47.640 --> 02:06:50.279 Get what you want when you want it without the scrolling, 2212 02:06:50.600 --> 02:06:53.560 and of course they have raw available. If you want 2213 02:06:53.600 --> 02:06:55.359 to hear more of me shooting off my mouth, check 2214 02:06:55.399 --> 02:06:56.840 out some of the other shows that I work on. 2215 02:06:57.239 --> 02:07:00.800 They are all available at wirdingwaymedia dot com. Thanks especially 2216 02:07:00.880 --> 02:07:03.319 to our Patreon community. If you want to join the community, 2217 02:07:03.479 --> 02:07:06.640 visit patreon dot com. Slash Projection Booth. Every donation we 2218 02:07:06.760 --> 02:07:09.079 get help some Projection booth take over the world. 2219 02:07:34.199 --> 02:07:40.199 Soon said if so, yes, Sa'm okay, Yes, lacky, that's 2220 02:07:40.239 --> 02:07:43.560 the time you said, I say that, soon show me, 2221 02:07:45.760 --> 02:07:46.760 I said, think. 2222 02:07:46.600 --> 02:07:48.119 I feel I'm better. 2223 02:07:48.640 --> 02:07:50.199 No, it's like cat stop. 2224 02:07:51.479 --> 02:07:56.600 To the foot. 2225 02:07:58.880 --> 02:08:01.439 By slip bred as they do. 2226 02:08:01.560 --> 02:08:05.880 That's appeli, I feel just spot. Surely cats want to. 2227 02:08:05.880 --> 02:08:09.359 Be sex up playing I'm gonna have to pay back. 2228 02:08:12.319 --> 02:08:13.119 Just wants to be sex. 2229 02:08:13.159 --> 02:08:15.399 I played pem sex, I'm playing over. 2230 02:08:18.520 --> 02:08:19.199 Wants to be sex. 2231 02:08:19.239 --> 02:08:20.720 I played that mom seem sex. 2232 02:08:20.760 --> 02:08:21.479 I'm playing mom. 2233 02:08:21.960 --> 02:08:22.960 Don't made him bash? 2234 02:08:23.000 --> 02:08:25.239 You shoot and can call him? 2235 02:08:25.239 --> 02:08:28.520 Almost said initial ship girl, he could a person to 2236 02:08:28.640 --> 02:08:29.239 make easter. 2237 02:08:29.359 --> 02:08:32.800 They post and see this, surely says I don't. 2238 02:08:32.640 --> 02:08:34.399 Go to shore, don't more limke and what's that? 2239 02:08:34.680 --> 02:08:34.840 Say? 2240 02:08:34.920 --> 02:08:35.039 Oh? 2241 02:08:35.199 --> 02:08:37.880 Show just playing and well love me? I sail you 2242 02:08:37.960 --> 02:08:39.880 pun on my own person. I think I got me. 2243 02:08:40.399 --> 02:08:44.680 You don't given because your Dutch posne he's don't don't 2244 02:08:44.720 --> 02:08:48.000 yoab he's a donam me can you by all I'm 2245 02:08:48.039 --> 02:08:51.079 listening to, will send your dad that you mont that 2246 02:08:51.199 --> 02:08:54.479 that you're Tory? Does the mossy sid I mean the check? 2247 02:08:54.479 --> 02:08:57.079 Is this pious? 2248 02:08:57.119 --> 02:08:57.560 This this? 2249 02:08:58.039 --> 02:09:03.279 Oh, it's not, it's not. I tuk no Ebervation's this 2250 02:09:03.600 --> 02:09:09.359 subservations 2251 02:09:13.239 --> 02:09:16.520 Boh ooh