WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:11.640 The following podcast. Please grab maarial. 2 00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:15.880 Listener. This question is that. 3 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:39.520 Donald Patreon? Are you started? 4 00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:41.799 Yeah, we're started. What's up guys? 5 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:45.960 O Kate account me now for that three two one go? 6 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:48.159 Oh my gosh, you're like, what are we talking about? 7 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:49.119 I'm trying to listen stuff. 8 00:00:49.119 --> 00:00:52.039 And then you said we're just gonna wing it and 9 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:54.520 start it, and then I hit record and you're like 10 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:56.240 talking Patreon and then. 11 00:00:56.119 --> 00:00:59.880 Here we are, Well, excuse me, I'm Nicole, I'm Ben. 12 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:01.119 You're listening to Wick and. 13 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:03.719 Graham True Crime Podcast. What's up, guys? 14 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:04.879 How's it going? 15 00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:07.040 It's going, It's going pretty good. 16 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:07.879 So good. 17 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:11.959 We are work clearly going to be talking patreons patrons 18 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:13.719 today and mimosas was. 19 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:17.079 I was going to talk about that to grab your Moses? 20 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:20.200 Yeah, where do we leave off. 21 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:22.760 For the patrons at Christine Scott. 22 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:25.599 Christine Scott was our last one that we thanked. Christine Scott, 23 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:27.359 you're getting thanked again and thank you much for being 24 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:31.359 an amazing Patreon. And of course we've got Echo Yama 25 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:33.319 Lee's frets. I really hope I said your name right. 26 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:36.000 I'm sorry if I didn't. And Jessica Bird they all 27 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:39.560 signed up for Patreon this week. So you guys are amazing. 28 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:42.359 Thank you very much for everyone over on Patreon. You 29 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:45.400 guys really help us keep this going, so thank you 30 00:01:45.519 --> 00:01:46.079 so much. 31 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:48.959 Yeah, we literally think you guys are all freaking awesome. 32 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:52.359 Legit, that's why they got exclusive March right. 33 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:54.359 So and they'll get more of that. 34 00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:58.159 Yeah, they will. You actually have some socks you wanted 35 00:01:58.159 --> 00:01:58.799 to do a giveaway? 36 00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:01.519 Well no, I have some Jacko's stuff actually that I 37 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:03.519 want to give away and I just haven't done that yet. 38 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:05.120 You probably should, but I will. 39 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:07.680 I'll get on that, do it, you know, with my 40 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:09.280 oodles of free time, I'll get right on that. 41 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:10.280 Doodles and noodles. 42 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:10.840 Yes. 43 00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:13.879 Oh, speaking of the merch and giveaway and stuff, I 44 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:15.919 was thinking we should come up with a new design 45 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:16.960 for Wicked and Grim. 46 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:18.719 Soon, another one, another one? 47 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:20.360 Well, I think every once in a while, and you know, 48 00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:22.039 to come up with a new design or too. You 49 00:02:22.039 --> 00:02:22.840 know the way we go. 50 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:24.879 Well, you enjoy doing it, so it do make sense. 51 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:27.840 I like doing the artsy stuff, so why not. So 52 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:30.800 what we want you guys to do? Head over to 53 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:33.800 our Instagram or a Facebook or email or wherever you 54 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:36.039 want to get a hold of us. And tell us 55 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:38.120 what you would like to see fro merch. Maybe we'll 56 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:39.960 even do a post so you guys can comment and 57 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:43.039 let us know. So, so, yeah, tell us what you 58 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:45.479 want to see. I know some people want to see 59 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:48.960 a few particular things, like you're nasty. 60 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:51.759 Oh yeah, you're nasty. That's a good one. I actually 61 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:52.520 want to see that too. 62 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:54.360 Well, maybe we'll have to do that in this round, 63 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:55.439 but we'll see what everyone says. 64 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:58.560 So I'm so just distracted by the smell of farts. 65 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:02.599 Well because I'm right by the dogs and they're disgusting. 66 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:05.159 They're nasty, and so this is gonna be fun. 67 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:07.039 I can't put all the blame on them. I'm not 68 00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:10.240 gonna lie. I might have broke wind once or twice. 69 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:13.199 Oh my gosh, this tiny home living thing, you know, 70 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:14.319 I'm just living the life. 71 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:18.479 There's not much ventilation. No, it's you trapped. 72 00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:21.879 And it's quite funny. So part we're on, Part two, 73 00:03:22.199 --> 00:03:25.879 Part two, Part two, And I ended in kind of 74 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:27.840 a shitty spot for y'all last time, and I got 75 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:28.800 some flak. 76 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:29.960 But it was epic. 77 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:33.039 But to my defense, is that not like how every 78 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:36.800 TV drama ends pretty much making you want more? Yeah, 79 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:38.759 so I'm just starting to be cool, so like, don't 80 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:39.360 be all at me. 81 00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:40.479 It was well played. 82 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:43.400 I think you're very well played at job. I deserve 83 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:45.599 a pat on the back, not like flak. 84 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:47.520 I'll i'd patch you. What's you on the other end 85 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:48.879 of the table and behind a microphone? 86 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:50.680 No, but actually I thought i'd get more flack than 87 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:52.120 I did, So thank you. It was fun. 88 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:54.000 Yeah, they got you back. They got you back. 89 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:57.319 They do they do. Okay, so yeah, are we ready 90 00:03:57.360 --> 00:03:58.000 to start part two? 91 00:03:58.120 --> 00:03:59.039 We're just diving right in. 92 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:02.240 Oh my goodness. Well yeah, I think before you got 93 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:06.240 in hand, let's get wondering what's going on here? But 94 00:04:06.439 --> 00:04:09.360 let's do this because I still think that this is 95 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:12.479 just not a widely out their case, which is so wild. 96 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:15.000 Because it's not a widely out their case, it's. 97 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:18.519 Nuts not that is not more known and just out 98 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:19.160 there everywhere. 99 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:21.240 Okay, can you give us a quick wrap up, like 100 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:25.480 a ten second elevator pitch on what last episode entailed? 101 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:28.519 Yes, I'm going to do that. Oh okay, Okay, So 102 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:32.720 we were talking about Dennis Nilsen and so he had 103 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:36.480 just basically had turned his fantasy into a reality. He 104 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:40.600 had just murdered fourteen year old Stephen Holmes, his fantasy 105 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:45.480 being basically like necrophilia. I guess, yes, is what you 106 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:48.160 call it, but I just hate saying that it's. 107 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:51.519 But that gross word for a very gross definition. 108 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:54.720 And up to that point of Stephen, he really was 109 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:59.439 like using his own body to satisfy those fantasies, which 110 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:03.040 is okay, we were okay with that, and then it 111 00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:04.000 just crossed the line. 112 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:08.399 Yeah, I mean personally, I'm not okay with him. I'm 113 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:11.240 not okay with the things he was doing because it's 114 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:12.720 just weird for me personally. 115 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:14.360 It makes you uncomfortable. 116 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:18.120 I mean, it doesn't make me uncomfortable. It would make 117 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:21.519 me uncomfortable if I were doing it. It's not for me, 118 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:24.360 But I'm not going to pass judgment on someone doing 119 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:25.120 it to. 120 00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:27.399 Teach their own But exactly, if I came home and 121 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:29.399 you had your body covered in. 122 00:05:29.560 --> 00:05:31.600 Uh, talcum powder, baby. 123 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:34.360 Powder with blue lips, I might have a couple questions 124 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:39.759 looking at myself sexually, and I might have a couple questions. 125 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:42.439 I'm not gonna lie, but again, they would be coming 126 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:45.079 out to each their own. But yeah, at that point, 127 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:47.279 he was not doing any harm, but he crossed the 128 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:49.360 fucking line. And now he's doing harm and now you 129 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:51.319 get to hurt hear about this mole phul. 130 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:52.959 And now it's not fucking okay. 131 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:55.360 Okay, So where the heck was it? Oh? Yes, and 132 00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:58.319 he had left, Oh yeah, I am right here. He 133 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:02.040 had left, got it, even Holmes, He had left him 134 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:03.199 under his floorboards. 135 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:05.680 Right, looked like thirty days or something. 136 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:07.680 No, dude, it was way more. Which he would remain 137 00:06:07.879 --> 00:06:13.000 under those floorboards until August eleventh, nineteen seventy nine, which 138 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:14.600 was basically like eight months. 139 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:18.959 That's what it was. Yep, Like whoa, yeah, I remember 140 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:21.199 my mind being fucking blown because I thought it was 141 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:23.959 something like a week or up to thirty days or something. 142 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:26.199 But yeah, no, eight months. That's that's. 143 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:31.399 Oh yeah, like it's this is a nasty story. Like honestly, 144 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:34.439 if you guys are having a snack right now, maybe 145 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:35.160 just finish that. 146 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:38.759 And if it's beef jerky, just oh oh. 147 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:41.279 Man, Okay, here we go. Okay. So here are some 148 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:44.519 of Dennis's words in response to his first victim. Okay, 149 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:48.759 I eased him into his new bed beneath the floorboards. 150 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:52.560 A week later. I wondered whether his body had changed 151 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:57.160 at all. Or had started to decompose. I disinsurged him 152 00:06:57.560 --> 00:07:00.439 and pulled the dirt stained youth up onto the floor. 153 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:04.639 His skin was very dirty. I stripped myself naked and 154 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:08.360 carried him into the bathroom and washed the body. There 155 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:12.800 was particularly no discoloration, and his skin was pale white. 156 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:15.360 His limbs were more relaxed than when I had put 157 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:20.879 him down there. Oh wow, Yeah, Like the stripped naked 158 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:25.279 part is just kind of like, okay, okay. 159 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:31.160 He okay, I mean, I'm trying to find a silver 160 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:31.800 lining here. 161 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:33.360 There's no silver line. 162 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:37.560 At least he was being careful with his remains, is 163 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:39.920 the only thing I can think of. But no, it's 164 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:42.800 not any kind way. It's in a very disturbing way. 165 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:47.319 Disturbing. So in August eleven, Dennis would dispose of Stephen's 166 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:50.959 body in a bonfire in the garden he had previously 167 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:55.360 negotiated with the landlords to be exclusively his I'm not 168 00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:59.079 entirely sure why it took Dennis this long disposed of 169 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:02.959 Stephen's body, but it did, which brings us to his 170 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:07.519 next victim, Andrew Hope. And this next victim wouldn't be 171 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:12.000 until October of nineteen seventy nine. So Steven was murdered 172 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:15.279 on December thirtieth, nineteen seventy eight, so it was quite 173 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:18.759 some time really before he would strike again, and some 174 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:22.120 light with this victim with Andrew, he would survive. 175 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:23.160 Oh really. 176 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:27.600 So on October eleventh, nineteen seventy nine, Dennis would meet Andrew, 177 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:32.080 a local student from Hong Kong. Meeting him is our dog, 178 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:32.840 just like ground. 179 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:35.840 I think she's either snoring or she's upset and like 180 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:39.120 growling at something or someone. But I just hear it constantly. 181 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:41.320 I know me too. It's kind of distracting because I'm like, 182 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:42.399 what is going on back there? 183 00:08:42.440 --> 00:08:44.000 Do you want to pause it and take care of her? 184 00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:44.360 Sure? 185 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:47.240 Okay, she's a princess, peach. She needs our attention one 186 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:51.600 sec Holy shit, Okay, So she's she's just snarling away 187 00:08:51.639 --> 00:08:52.519 overund cold. 188 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:56.799 I was like, thought something was upsetting her, but holy gosh, okay, 189 00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:00.399 so distracting here with these animals, sorry, guys. 190 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:03.480 And if you hear some snoring in the background. 191 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:07.440 She's getting old. There's and there's nowhere for them to 192 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:10.559 go in here. Okay. So we had left off Andrew, 193 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:15.919 just a local student from Hong Kong, and Dennis was 194 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:18.480 meeting him or not, or he met him at a 195 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:22.240 Saint Martin's Lane pub. He would lure Andrew back to 196 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:28.000 his flat with the promise of sex like don't go now. 197 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.600 Dennis would attempt to strangle Andrew, but somehow he managed 198 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:34.879 to escape and get out of Dennis's home. He we 199 00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:37.159 could say that Andrew was the badass of the day, 200 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:40.320 being that he actually was able to escape this moful 201 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:43.679 But he's a bit of a disappointment afterwards. 202 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:44.639 Because he doesn't do anything when he. 203 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:48.360 Does report the incident to police, causing Dennis to be questioned, 204 00:09:48.919 --> 00:09:52.879 but in the end decides not to press charges. Fuck, 205 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:59.159 I'm like nobody, But then remember that time, I don't know, 206 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:01.559 you had to be careful, right because being gay was 207 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:04.799 illegal and stuff, right, So true, yeah, but I'm like, 208 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:07.679 oh my gosh, if he'd press charges and stuff like 209 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:09.120 this could have maybe saved people. 210 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:11.679 But hindsight is twenty twenty, right, I don't give a shit. 211 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:15.559 Well, all right, clearly they get to save people. 212 00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:18.960 It could have, and it would have been awesome if 213 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:20.720 he did continue those charges, But like you said, he's 214 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:23.440 putting himself in danger if you were to press charges. Now, 215 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:25.039 he's going to be publicly gay. 216 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:27.279 And sometimes you have to think about yourself. I suppose 217 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:28.679 I get it. I get it. 218 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:32.000 For example, maybe it wasn't going to be that he's 219 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:36.000 going to be reprimanded legally for being homosexual or anything 220 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:38.200 like that. But maybe it's just strictly his parents would 221 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:40.519 find out. His family would find out, and he didn't want. 222 00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:42.440 That, and he was keeping it a secret, right or something. 223 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:44.759 So it's such a shame that people have to hide 224 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:47.320 themselves like that or had to. Not that they still don't, 225 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:48.320 but more so. 226 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:51.639 Yeah, I don't think that they necessarily have to do anymore, 227 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:53.559 but I mean I understand it's probably still hard. 228 00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:56.759 Yeah, well, I mean there are personal circumstances where people 229 00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:57.320 do still. 230 00:10:57.080 --> 00:10:59.320 Have to hide themselves. But yeah, and it's. 231 00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:01.600 Sad and I'm sure or it would have been at 232 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:03.480 least something like that on his mind. 233 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:08.639 So yes, Ben, I get it. What well, I was 234 00:11:08.679 --> 00:11:11.440 just like this guy, shit, you need to come forward. 235 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:13.879 But no, I get it. I get it. 236 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:16.759 It would have been nice, but I'm sure there's a reason, you. 237 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:18.559 Know, and who knows how long it would have even 238 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:21.080 put Dennis in jail if it did or whatever. Right, 239 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:24.799 So that it might not have even done anything right. 240 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:26.080 And I mean it could have been just his word 241 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:28.840 against his right, like yeah, who used to say probably 242 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:30.759 nothing could have even potentially even happened of. 243 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:33.799 It, And Dennis might have been a more like rippertal 244 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.480 person too, and yeah, so who knows. Okay, So two 245 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:41.679 months later Dennis was at it again. December third, nineteen 246 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:44.679 seventy nine was the date, and the next victim would 247 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:47.720 not be so lucky. This time it would be twenty 248 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:51.559 three year old Canadian student Oh, who was on a 249 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:56.519 tour of England visiting relatives. His name was Kenneth Oakenden. 250 00:11:56.759 --> 00:11:58.279 I think that's how you say his last name, oaken 251 00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:01.200 Den Oakenden, something like that. 252 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:02.360 That's a badass name. 253 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:03.080 You like it? 254 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:05.759 I did, especially because I was just watching the Hobbit 255 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:08.679 movie today with Thorin Oakenshield. 256 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:11.840 Oh Oakenden, I don't know. His name's Kenneth. 257 00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:14.399 It's a badass name. I like it. 258 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.279 So Dennis encountered Kenneth once again at a local pub 259 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:21.679 we Hear, where he learned Kenneth was a tourist and 260 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:25.080 offered to show him around London. They would spend the 261 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:28.799 afternoon together sight seeing and drinking when it started to 262 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:32.000 get dark, and Dennis invited Kenneth back to his health 263 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:36.440 for drinks and dinner, but it would not last long. 264 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:40.519 Dennis was not able to recall the exact moment he 265 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:44.840 strangled Kenneth, but as Kenneth was listening to music and 266 00:12:44.919 --> 00:12:50.799 wearing headphones, Dennis took the headphone chord, dragging Kenneth across 267 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:53.799 the floor with the chord wrapped around his neck and 268 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:57.600 he strangled him. Fuck, like, that's I think a terrible 269 00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:00.639 time to just slip. You're into your music, yeah, and 270 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:05.320 then oh. He then poured himself a drink and continued 271 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:10.519 like listening to the music on the headphones fuck, as 272 00:13:10.519 --> 00:13:14.399 he did with Stephen. Dennis then bade Kenneth before placing 273 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:17.320 him in his bed to sleep beside him for the night. 274 00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:20.440 That was some Silence of the Lambs shit right there? 275 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:21.759 Holy fuck? 276 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:25.720 What do you mean really? I don't think I've watched that? 277 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:29.960 Oh my god, we are watching Silence of the Lambs 278 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:31.279 this weekend? What the fuck? 279 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:32.960 I have other shit on my list to watch. 280 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:35.799 How have you never seen? How am I married to you? 281 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:40.120 I don't know. Ask yourself that I'm pretty awesome, though, I. 282 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:43.159 Mean you are, but you've never seen silence of the Lambs, 283 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:46.240 I don't think, so, wow, we've got to change that. 284 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:48.960 Okay, why does someone get stranged him in there with 285 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:49.679 headphone cord? 286 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:52.919 Well no, but there's the Buffalo Bill, the main serial 287 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:56.159 killer in it. He's very much so a creeper. He 288 00:13:56.679 --> 00:13:59.960 goes for women with soft, supple skin sort of thing 289 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:02.279 because he wants to basically make a skin suit because 290 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:05.399 he wants to be a woman. But he's a man, right, 291 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:06.000 And it's kind. 292 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:08.440 Of that's not a lotion thing in the well, yes. 293 00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:09.679 It puts a lotion on its skin or else it 294 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:10.440 gets the hose again. 295 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:11.519 Okay, well I've heard that. 296 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:14.279 Well yeah, that's that's from this look at me. So 297 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:17.080 and he's got like in his house, he's got like 298 00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:20.559 a music thing that he does and he's dancing and stuff. 299 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:22.879 So just like the whole creepy vibe with like the 300 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:26.360 music and the okay, being sensual with like the dead 301 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:29.000 is just full. 302 00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:32.399 He premeditated that in a way, because I don't think 303 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:36.480 that Kenneth was listening to the records with headphones prior 304 00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:39.200 to But then Dennis was like, here, put these on. 305 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.120 This is like my favorite record like really listen and 306 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:43.720 then like boom done. 307 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:45.480 Yeah. 308 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:48.679 The following day, Dennis would buy a Polaroid camera to 309 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:52.799 capture the beauty of Kenneth's perfect and beautiful body. He 310 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:56.639 laid his corpse in suggestive poses to capture on film, 311 00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:00.279 before finally laying beside him as he watched TV for 312 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:01.240 several hours. 313 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:01.879 Wow. 314 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:05.600 Kenneth would be stored under the floorboards as Stephen was, 315 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:10.759 but on many occasions, Stephen would actually go about disturbing 316 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:14.639 Kenni's corpse. He would move his body around his home 317 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:20.200 to bath him, watch television with and have conversations with 318 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:22.799 as though he was still there and listening. 319 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:28.639 That's a visual ala really disturbing it. 320 00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:32.559 It's super disturbing. But as Kenneth's body would begin to 321 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:36.279 show signs of rot, he would be retired beneath the 322 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:40.200 floorboards and Dennis would once again have to face his 323 00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:46.039 inevitable loneliness. That is until Martin Duffy would enter his life. 324 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:52.080 Un Martin Duffy. Duffy was a sixteen year old gay 325 00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:54.759 teenager from Birkenhead, England. 326 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:57.039 He keeps praying on like the young. 327 00:15:56.919 --> 00:15:59.840 Oh yeah, he likes him really young, like really. 328 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:01.519 Young, which which is even more of a shame, not 329 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:04.759 necessarily strictly because of their age, but because that they're 330 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:08.159 a lot more susceptible to like these older men who 331 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:12.759 are kind of in the gay world atmosphere or whatever, 332 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:14.559 who kind of know like the way around the bars 333 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:18.879 and stuff, where these new kids are basically just trying 334 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:21.039 to learn and explore themselves. Right. 335 00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:24.600 Well, yeah, and Martin's a runaway, so he did. He 336 00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:28.960 was attracted to like homeless people, runaways, and like sex workers, 337 00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:32.559 so he would kind of target people that may not 338 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:38.960 be noticed that they're missing. Yeah, so yeah, okay, so yeah, Mike, 339 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:41.879 I said. Martin had run away from home and hitchhiked 340 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:46.120 the four hour distance to London. Dennis would cross paths 341 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:50.039 with him on May seventeenth, nineteen eighty at the train station. 342 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:53.279 Martin had been away from home for four days at 343 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:58.080 this point and was both exhausted and hungry. Dennis offered 344 00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:01.080 him a hot meal and bed for the evening, which 345 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:05.240 Martin greats gratefully accepted, and like, I have trouble when 346 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:08.119 people are too nice, Like I think that would almost 347 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:11.839 make me like run. But Martin was also like almost 348 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.279 survival point at that like he needed he had needs. 349 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:16.880 Right, yeah, exactly, so he. 350 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:19.640 Almost probably had to accept that offer. 351 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:22.440 Which is in a situation like that, how could you 352 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:23.039 not accept it? 353 00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:26.759 Honestly, I know, but you shouldn't because people are evil. 354 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:28.480 People are fucking evil. 355 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:32.400 They're evil. Okay, So there is good out there, don't 356 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:35.200 get me wrong. There are there are good Okay. I 357 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:37.519 think there's more good than evil. I'm going to say 358 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:39.759 that because like, majority of people aren't going to murder 359 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:41.799 you in your house and when you're in their house. 360 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:47.319 Well, I hope, yeah, I would hope. Theoretically speaking, though, 361 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:52.319 it's got to be like a perfect balance theoretically because 362 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:54.880 I guess if you look at it in not necessarily 363 00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:57.759 like a biblical term of like heaven hell type evil, 364 00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:00.880 I'm saying, in like a nature version type of evil. 365 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:04.680 So I'm gonna put it in this way because this 366 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:06.880 is one way that I really understand it, and it's 367 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:12.119 a really good analogy for hunting. For example, around here, 368 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:15.480 the moose population it goes up and down, so the moose, 369 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:19.079 you know, they have offspring in the population increases, and 370 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:21.319 with the population of increase, and we're going to use 371 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:25.039 moose as the good as their population increases, so does 372 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:27.920 the population of wolves, and we're going to use them 373 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.960 as the bad. So as the moose population grows, the 374 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:34.279 wolf population now grows because there's a larger food source. 375 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:37.880 So now as the wolves are picking off the moose, 376 00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:41.680 now their population starts to decrease. And now the wolves 377 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:44.160 are losing their food source and they start to starve 378 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:47.039 to death, so their population decreases. And now as their 379 00:18:47.079 --> 00:18:50.400 population decreases, the moose goes up. So it's as constant 380 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:52.240 up and down, up and down. And I would like 381 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:55.480 to think it's a very similar thing with good deeds 382 00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:58.880 and bad deeds. If a person sees bad deeds around 383 00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:01.359 them lots, maybe a lenst tell him to do some 384 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:05.599 good and vice versa. Who knows. I don't know. 385 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:11.440 I just think Dennis is bad. Yeah, I know, I 386 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:13.160 get what you're saying. I totally get where you're saying. 387 00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:16.839 But I also think that humankind has more good than bad, 388 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:21.559 is my opinion. I would hope that not every half 389 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:23.960 the people are around running around murdering people and stuff. 390 00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:28.000 Right, Well, I guess it depends on what you Yeah, 391 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:29.599 it depends on where you draw that line, because I 392 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:34.559 mean throwing a paper napkin on the sidewalk. Is that bad? 393 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.119 Yes, exactly, but maybe on some people that wouldn't be bad. 394 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:41.400 But I'm like, don't letter. Okay. So once back at 395 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:44.960 Dennis's place, Martin would eat dinner, have a couple drinks 396 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.119 with Dennis, but then begin to nod off and want 397 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:51.839 to head to bed. Falling asleep in Dennis's bed, the team. 398 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:56.359 The team would not know what hit him when Dennis would, 399 00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.119 like the others, begin to strangle him as he sat 400 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:01.799 on his chest and tighten the twine around his neck 401 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:07.160