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Every little helps available the 10 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:29.879 most stores, prices very inn express. 11 00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:33.200 Mum, why did they call it Scottish cheese? 12 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:36.039 It's cottage cheese, honey. And I'm not sure. 13 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:39.200 Did dogs in other countries speak different languages? 14 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:39.719 Yeah? 15 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:42.399 I think so. When when we get there, well, we've 16 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:44.560 got to fix the car first, but there's someone coming 17 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:45.200 to help us. 18 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:47.119 Is it the man from Geneva? 19 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:51.359 Not Geneva, he's from a Viva. Oh there's a van now. 20 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:54.479 For car insurance with breakdown rescue. It takes a Viva 21 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:58.200 visit Aviva? Do I eat to say fifteen percent acceptance criteria. 22 00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:00.640 Terms and conditions apply. Minimum premium of three hundred and 23 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:03.079 ten year old. Fifteen percent discant applies to new policies 24 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:05.519 bought online. See a Viva dotta e for details. Car 25 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:08.239 insurance is underwritten by Aviva Insurance Arland duc A Viva 26 00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:11.040 Direct Arlund Limited is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. 27 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:13.200 Oh hey, it's the guy who didn't even look at 28 00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:16.959 your receipt before dragging a highlighter over it. Ali word here, 29 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:21.120 it is here. It is the Fox episode. Waited years 30 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:25.000 for this and it was absolutely totally different than I expected. 31 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:28.000 Join me. So we're going to address the etymology of 32 00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:30.120 the ology in a bit. But I do want you 33 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:34.519 to know that in researching this, Google helpfully redirected me 34 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:39.280 to the search results for urology, and then proctology, and 35 00:01:39.319 --> 00:01:46.519 then once again euro gynecology and I scoffed, but honestly eurosinology. 36 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:48.519 It kind of involves a bit of each of those. 37 00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:51.640 Stick around. But this expert is just one of my 38 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:56.000 favorite kinds. His study species is just woven into his 39 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:59.680 every day life and his dreams and his identity. I 40 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:03.040 love all of it. And he's a retired English teacher 41 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:06.519 this Fox guy, who's known as the Fox Guy and 42 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:13.120 is very gifted with narrative abilities like your favorite fireside storyteller. 43 00:02:13.240 --> 00:02:16.400 He's even written a book, twenty twenty two's The Road 44 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:19.719 to Fox Hollow, which is beautifully written, and he's contributed 45 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:23.000 to Canan's of the World, published by Princeton University Press. 46 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:25.680 He's been an associate director of the North Santa Clara 47 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:29.599 Resource Conservation District, and he co founded the Urban Wildlife 48 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:34.879 Research Project, which has accomplished rigorous field research, has this 49 00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:38.919 archive of data. Beth Pratt of our p twenty two episode, 50 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:42.199 has called him the Jane Goodall of the Gray Fox, 51 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:44.360 and by the end of the episode, You're never going 52 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:46.639 to look at Fox as the same. This is like 53 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:50.400 showing you a new color you never knew existed, or 54 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:52.919 a flavor of cake. They've been hiding in the back 55 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:54.240 and we're going to get to it. But first quick 56 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:56.080 thank you to all the patrons who submitted questions for 57 00:02:56.120 --> 00:02:59.599 this episode. Thank you to everyone wearing ologies merch from 58 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:04.080 all Gesmarch dot com. Also side note, we have smologies 59 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:08.199 which are g rated shorter kid friendly episodes and those 60 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:11.120 you can find anywhere you get your podcasts. It's called smologies. 61 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:13.080 We linked them in the show notes too, And thank 62 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:15.439 you to everyone who leaves reviews, which helped the show 63 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:17.680 so much. I read them all, and I prove it 64 00:03:17.719 --> 00:03:20.159 with my mouth by reading one such as this recent 65 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:23.080 one from right Away, who wrote, I find myself completely 66 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:25.479 lost in episodes that I thought i'd want to skip. 67 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:28.400 I mean, how can a show about trees or basket 68 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:32.520 weaving be fascinating? But they are? Right away. We just 69 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:34.919 have really good guests. Y'all are gonna love this one. 70 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:39.680 Curl up, open your huge ears for facts about fuzzy foxes, 71 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:44.000 baby names, parental strategies, where they live, what they inherit, 72 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:47.960 how to observe foxes, How tiny foxes wound up on islands, 73 00:03:48.199 --> 00:03:52.680 which ones need conservation, how to help the foxes tech foxes, 74 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:56.800 why a fox on the couch is worth thousands in 75 00:03:56.879 --> 00:04:00.520 the bush, if foxes eat leftovers? And how your dog 76 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:03.479 can help save their lives? Plus what do they smell like? 77 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:06.759 And at long last, what do they say with gray fox? 78 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:32.720 Behavioral expert, researcher, conservationist, author, and euroscinologist Bill like them? 79 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:34.399 Okay, Bill like them? 80 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:35.160 Cool? 81 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:38.079 Yeah? And I just wanted to make a point that 82 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:42.079 my specialty is the gray fox. Yes, and it's the 83 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:44.439 most unique fox of all of them. 84 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:46.879 Is it the best fox? 85 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:51.519 Oh? I wouldn't say it is exactly the best fox, 86 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:55.720 but it's the most unique fox. I'll put it that way. 87 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:59.120 It is the base what we call the basal canid. 88 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:03.600 It's the root of all other canids that exist in 89 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:11.439 the world. So it's older, genetically older than a wolf, 90 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:17.360 a jackal. You name the canid on the planet, gray fox? 91 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:17.879 Is it? 92 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:22.839 Really? I did not know that, and that is very exciting. Now, 93 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:26.800 first off, a fox, are they more like dogs or cats? 94 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:30.600 They're more like cats. I sometimes call them the canine 95 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:35.399 that acts like a feline. Okay, because they do. They 96 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:38.639 have a lot of characteristics. They are feline, and so. 97 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:41.800 What about them is cat like? Is it how they 98 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:42.800 stalk their prey? 99 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.959 It's part of that, but it's also the manner in 100 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:52.639 which they sip. They also climb trees just like a 101 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:56.480 cat would. Oh, the way they use their ears is 102 00:05:56.560 --> 00:05:57.079 cat like. 103 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.319 And then what about them is very doglike. 104 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:09.759 Only probably appearance, really, yeah, because they just reflect that 105 00:06:09.879 --> 00:06:11.480 cat like behavior. 106 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:16.600 You know, we have domesticated dogs and cats, but very 107 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:19.279 few people on earth have pet foxes. Why do you 108 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:21.079 think that is? They're so cute? 109 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:25.600 Yeah, well, in England more people have foxes for pets 110 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:29.600 as far as I can tell, than we do over here. 111 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:34.000 My attitude is this that they are in fact meant 112 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:37.600 to be in the wild, not to be captive in 113 00:06:37.639 --> 00:06:38.120 your home. 114 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:41.720 So a pet fox, no, First off, they tend to 115 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:45.399 be a bit destructive indoors, and they need raw meat 116 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:49.600 and mental stimulation and a lot of physical activity, and 117 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:52.480 it's illegal in most states in the US. Hey are 118 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:57.199 you a certified wildlife rehabber? And the fox can't be released? Maybe, 119 00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:00.800 but they can never fully be potty trained. And if 120 00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:04.519 pet foxes have like a favorite activity, it's peeing on 121 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:09.160 stuff so much. P What do foxes smell like? I've 122 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:12.240 heard that they're musky, very musky. This is true. 123 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:17.600 Yeah, yeah, they are. They reflect their scat. Oh, and 124 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:23.480 their scat is really there's a whole story behind what 125 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:27.079 they do and how they use their scat and so forth. 126 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:30.680 It's pretty remarkable how they use it. 127 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:32.240 It might be like a little too early in the 128 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:35.600 episode to dive right into what foxes do with their business, 129 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:38.600 And I mean, maybe we should skip that or what 130 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:40.360 do they do? I'm all yours. 131 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:44.639 Oh well, what they do is they take their feces 132 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:50.519 and they mark territory, so they will defecate in areas 133 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.720 where they want to make it known to other animals 134 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:59.600 that they own this territory. So if it's another fox 135 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:03.920 that comes into the area trespasser, let's say, the pair 136 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:09.639 of foxes that claims the territory will fight off another 137 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:13.480 any other fox that comes into the area, the trespasses 138 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:18.560 onto their territory, and eventually they will chase that trespasser 139 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:24.519 out of their territory. And that happens over and over again. 140 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:27.920 But fairly recently, like a year and a half ago, 141 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:32.840 I had gray foxes occupying a territory in my study 142 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:38.200 area and a red fox came rolling into the area, 143 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:42.320 and the red fox and the gray foxes were in conflict, 144 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:47.039 and the end result of that was what I call 145 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:53.440 the scat wars because what happened. What happened was that 146 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:57.879 by the way I name the foxes, I give them 147 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:02.919 personal names. I don't do this scientific bit because like 148 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:05.759 Jane Goodall said, you don't want you get to know them. 149 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:09.799 You can't dub them with a GF, you know, forty two, 150 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:14.919 whatever it might be, you know, so I give him names. 151 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:19.799 And this one gray fox I call Limos, and that 152 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:24.320 means long neck in Greek, because he had kind of 153 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:28.080 an extended neck. You know, that's kind of the way 154 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:32.799 I identify them. Anyway, he was marking, marking, marking, and 155 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:37.399 telling with his scat this red fox to get out. 156 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:41.639 And what the red fox would do would come over 157 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:45.399 to where he had defecated and defecate on top of it. 158 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:48.879 And it was pile on pile on, pile. 159 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:52.000 On file, like a Jenga tower. 160 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:58.320 And finally, finally the red fox is left. And it 161 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:01.200 was about a year later that both of the gray 162 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:05.759 foxes died. We have a problem out here with canine 163 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:12.639 distemper and it's deadly, deadly, deadly to foxes and raccoons 164 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:17.440 and a couple of other mammals that live nearby. And anyway, 165 00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:21.960 after they died, then the red foxes came back in. 166 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.679 And that's now what I'm monitoring. I'm monitoring the red 167 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:28.679 foxes instead of the gray foxes. 168 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:31.360 And just briefly, according to the twenty twenty three study, 169 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.639 canine distemper virus infection in the free living wild canines. 170 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:41.240 This potentially fatal malady is related to the human measles virus, 171 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:44.200 and it can affect domesticated dogs, of course, but also 172 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:51.600 wildlife like foxes, coyotes, wolves, skunks, raccoons, river otters, weasels, badgers, 173 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:54.919 even ferrets. And at room temperature the virus can't last 174 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:57.279 that long, like less than a day, but at colder 175 00:10:57.320 --> 00:11:01.480 temperatures it can live quite a bit longer, and infected 176 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:05.519 animals can shed it for months through p and other 177 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.480 things coming out of their bodies. And of course, when 178 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:12.159 there is habitat loss and a lot of animals cramped densely, 179 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:17.080 it spreads much more quickly. As someone who studies gray foxes, 180 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:20.879 does that bum you out that it's now a red 181 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:24.200 fox territory? Are you like, that's not my species? 182 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:29.440 That's a great question. I'm really interested in seeing how 183 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:33.480 different these red foxes might be from the gray foxes, 184 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:37.320 and we've just started that part of the documentation of 185 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:42.000 the red foxes. I'm an ethologist, okay, And as an 186 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:46.639 ethologist you have to have a great deal of patience. 187 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:50.639 Ethology is a study of behavior, just a side notoe. 188 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:54.320 And you also need to have the ability to observe 189 00:11:54.679 --> 00:12:00.440 in detail. So if you observe in detail and document directly, 190 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:04.120 then you can build up a backlog of behavior. 191 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:08.559 How long have you been a vulpanologist? How long have 192 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:10.960 you been hanging out in the field? And look at it? Foxes? 193 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:14.840 Uh, fox Foxology, that's what we'll call it. 194 00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:17.080 Foxology. It's not vulpanology. 195 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:24.279 Oh, because well vulte volte is the mainline of the 196 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:32.519 fox classification. Okay, but gray fox doesn't fit in there. No, 197 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:37.240 gray fox is You're a siam No not what? 198 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:42.000 Yeah, I didn't realize that. Well, then let's go back. 199 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:45.159 Let's talk a little bit about these different not only species, 200 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:50.840 but actual genus of foxes. Because foxology pulled up mostly 201 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:54.879 websites selling nail polish or fishnet body suits, we're kind 202 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:59.000 of jerry rigging a new ology here, eurosinology, just for 203 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:02.120 gray foxes. I don't want to hear a word of 204 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:04.759 objection to that just because it's never been used, Because 205 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:06.600 by the end of the episode, you're going to be like, yes, 206 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:11.200 gray foxes deserve anology. I love them and they are special. 207 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:15.879 So the gray fox predates all of these other canids. 208 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:19.399 How many types of foxes are there though, I mean, 209 00:13:19.399 --> 00:13:21.600 I've heard of arctic foxes, red foxes. 210 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.000 How many we got, well, it depends on who you're 211 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:32.720 talking to. There are occtentsively twenty four, okay, and some 212 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:37.600 of those twenty four are very rare and live in 213 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:42.080 other parts of the world. And then there are overlaps. 214 00:13:42.679 --> 00:13:48.399 The Asian raccoon dog oh is considered in sort of 215 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:53.399 in the fox lane, and the bat aired fox of 216 00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:57.600 Africa is also a part of that, and those two 217 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:01.399 are the only two other canids that can climb trees. 218 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:04.559 So yes, this checks out. Red foxes in the genus 219 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:07.879 full paste are the most common, and other Vulpecee species 220 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:12.039 include the Arctic fox and the kit fox, the huge eared, 221 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:15.679 sandy colored fenick fox, the cape fox, and of course 222 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:19.159 the red fox, which is fulpace full pase now. Not 223 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:22.279 in the vulpace bucket is that bat eared fox of 224 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:25.720 the African savannahs, which looks like a jackal and it 225 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:29.840 eats termites, but it's in its own genus autocion now. 226 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:32.960 Also not a Volpasee is our newly beloved gray fox. 227 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:36.639 It's one of just two species in that genus, and 228 00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:43.000 its full name Eurocion scenario. Argentis means silver dogtail. It's 229 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:45.159 got a nice long tail. And the gray fox, it 230 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:49.320 used to be the most prevalent fox in precolonized North America, 231 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:53.240 but like so many things being disrupted, it's been edged 232 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:56.320 out by the larger red fox. Just in case you 233 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:59.200 want to root for an underdog, gray fox is an 234 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:03.200 underfox and the gray fox. How big about is the 235 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:03.759 gray fox? 236 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:10.799 Oh, it's like a small dog. Weighs about anywhere from 237 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:15.279 probably eight nine pounds on the slim side up to 238 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:19.799 about fifteen When you see them, see the small ones 239 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:23.320 out in the field out there next to some of 240 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.159 the bigger ones. There's a whale of a difference in 241 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:30.840 there in size wise. But the gray fox tends to 242 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:33.919 stay in the brush a lot. They're what I call 243 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:38.720 bush dogs. And the red fox, on the other hand, 244 00:15:38.919 --> 00:15:43.759 is a field dog. Oh and so the gray fox 245 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:48.240 has short, stubby legs and the red fox has long 246 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:49.919 legs for the field. 247 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:51.039 I've seen that. 248 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:54.559 Movement, you know, through grasses and things like that. 249 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:58.639 Is that why people think of the red fox more 250 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:00.559 when they think of a fox, because we just aren't 251 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:01.759 seeing these bush dogs. 252 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:05.639 That's exactly right, exactly. 253 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:10.360 I've only seen gray fox I think once. They live 254 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:13.559 on Catalina as well. Right, just a quick side note, 255 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:16.080 So Catalina is one of the Channel islands off the 256 00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:18.600 coast of southern California, and I went to college in 257 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:22.399 Santa Barbara. I lived there for months before I realized like, oh, 258 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:25.360 those are islands out in the ocean. Those are islands 259 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:28.120 right there. And the only other fox, by the way, 260 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:31.759 in the gray foxes, genus Heurocion, is the little island 261 00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:34.279 fox and it's tiny. It weighs in it just like 262 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:38.080 four or five pounds. Ourchaeologists think it's only been on 263 00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:41.279 those islands for about six thousand years, and the National 264 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:45.120 Park Service notes that the indigenous Tchumash revered those foxes 265 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.639 as sacred and thought that they helped usher in dreams. 266 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:52.519 And I personally would follow an island fox into the beyond. 267 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:54.919 I couldn't help myself. Now, what about bill? 268 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:58.840 Oh yeah, yeah, those are the small one, the little ones. 269 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:01.399 And there's still a debate on how they ever got there. 270 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:04.759 I was wondering that because it's a I had to 271 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:06.640 take a ferry for like an hour and a half, 272 00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:08.920 so I don't know how they got on that's a 273 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:09.599 lot of swimming. 274 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:16.279 Can they swim well? Some people say that the native 275 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:19.920 people living on the mainland exported them out to the 276 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:24.160 islands in their travels way before the white man ever 277 00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:24.640 got here. 278 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:25.480 Yeah. 279 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:29.440 Some others say no, it was when the two land masses, 280 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:33.400 when the islands were part of the mainland and broke 281 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:37.960 off millions of years ago, that it took them along 282 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:38.400 with it. 283 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:42.200 How did you get down the path of foxes or 284 00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:43.359 up the tree of foxes? 285 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:47.240 Whoa you want to hear a story? 286 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:49.039 Yes, of course, that's why I'm here. 287 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:56.200 Well, like around two thousand and seven or so, my 288 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:00.799 doctor said to me, he said, you know, Bill, if 289 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:04.119 you would get out and walk for a let's say, 290 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:07.599 half an hour to an hour every day, it'll help 291 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:12.880 you a lot physically. So I took him up on 292 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:17.319 that offer. And I had always been interested in birds, okay, 293 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:23.920 So as a fledgling burger, I got myself a DSLR 294 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:29.599 camera and I went out into Bixby Park here near 295 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:34.359 in Palo Alto, and I started taking photos of birds 296 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:37.640 and I got to be fairly good, and one of 297 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:42.960 my favorite favorite ones was the bullocks oriol Okay, and 298 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:46.119 it's a it's a pretty bird. And I knew a 299 00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:51.279 tree down this old dirt road where they were hanging out. 300 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.839 So one morning I'm walking down that road and I 301 00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:59.000 come around to bend and whoa ahead of me? Up 302 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.839 there it is this fox sitting next to the road. 303 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:06.599 And I knew it was a fox, but I had 304 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:09.519 no idea what kind of a fox it was. I 305 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:14.440 was zero, okay when it comes to knowing anything about them. 306 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:19.119 And this was in two thousand and nine. So I 307 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:23.599 started taking photos, walking closer and closer and closer, and 308 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:28.720 there was a steel gate across the road, and so 309 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:31.880 that little fox was sitting right on the other side 310 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:35.960 of that gate. So when I went around the corner 311 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:41.559 of that gate, that little fox just stood up and casually, 312 00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:44.319 I mean casually walked back into the brush. 313 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:49.400 I said, whoa, So Bill had this brush with the 314 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:51.480 cat sized bush dogs. 315 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.839 And so the next day I come back taking a 316 00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:57.000 look to see if I could find a fox, you know, 317 00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:03.400 in the bushes and wherever. Yeah, nothing really, the second day, nothing. 318 00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:07.720 The third day, I'm coming along that same road in 319 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:11.519 that same area and I'm looking back in the brush 320 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:16.039 and everything, and what did I see? I saw three 321 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:20.960 young foxes under the edge of the brush watching me 322 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:22.680 come up the road. 323 00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:24.480 Oh my god. 324 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:29.960 Okay, so I'm saying to myself, oh oh, I discovered 325 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.920 a family. Not just one fox, there's a whole family here. 326 00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:35.680 Just a side note. This was in two thousand and 327 00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:39.720 nine and at the time Bill was nearly seventy years old. 328 00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:42.799 Let me math this out for you. Bill is eighty 329 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:46.160 five people. I didn't find out until after the interview, 330 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:49.480 and I thought he was like maybe sixty. He's eighty 331 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:52.920 five and he's still out doing field work. So take 332 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:56.960 his doctor's advice. Walk thirty minutes a day if you can, 333 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:00.240 maybe slide a post a notepad in your pocket. You 334 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:03.440 see some frolicking animals. But yeah, So on this day 335 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:06.519 in two thousand and nine, Bill saw this gaggle of 336 00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:09.200 foxes who kind of looked at him quizzically. 337 00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:11.799 I sat down on the other side of the road, 338 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:17.799 and I had a posted pad in my pocket, and 339 00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:20.880 I just started jotting down little things about what they 340 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:23.559 were doing over there in that brush, you know, And 341 00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:26.960 they were curious about me, And you know, what's this 342 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.519 human doing over there on the other side of the road. 343 00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:33.319 You know, may have been what they were thinking, And 344 00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:37.839 then I came back day after day after day, and 345 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:43.079 on one of those days the adults were out. One 346 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:46.279 of the adults was on up the roadways, and I 347 00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:54.200 was between her and her little family back in the bush. Oh, 348 00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:57.839 and she comes up to the gate and she gets 349 00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:01.599 down on her belly and she's looking at me, and 350 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:06.920 then she barks. I'd never heard a fox bark in 351 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:07.960 all my life. 352 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:08.920 Me neither. 353 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:14.720 And she barks several times in order. And that's the 354 00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:17.920 only time in all of the years that I've been 355 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:21.200 doing this study that I was afraid of a fox. 356 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:23.799 What did it sound like? 357 00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:29.400 Like somebody with laryngitis. I can imitate a little bit, 358 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.640 a little bit of it, but not with the velocity 359 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:38.039 that they do it. I'll show you. Okay, it goes 360 00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:49.720 something like this, right, that's sort of the sound of 361 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:50.359 a gray. 362 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:52.359 Fox, really but rasppier. 363 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:55.279 Yeah, you have more laryngitis. 364 00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:56.000 Wow. 365 00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:59.119 I didn't know that they did that. Yeah, So the 366 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:01.880 call of the gray foxox is apparently like if a 367 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:05.759 cocker spaniel smoked a packa day of Marlboro Reds and 368 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:09.160 has never slept with a TV off. I picture a 369 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:13.039 dog stumbling out of a casino and coughing while a 370 00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:15.880 gray fox is hiding in nearby shrubbery and looks up 371 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:18.759 from a Sunday Crossword because they thought someone called their name. 372 00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:25.079 But gray foxes can also sound kind of like a 373 00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:30.559 squeaky toy or a whistle, and according to one regional 374 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.839 field guide in the Northeast, gray foxes communicate through this 375 00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:38.160 variety of vocalizations, including growls and barks and wines and 376 00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:42.640 whimpers and squeals and yips and yaps, and the babies 377 00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:45.119 are on the yip yappier side. I guess before their 378 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:50.599 voices developed their signature gravelly patina. I had no idea. 379 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:52.920 Is that mostly just a gray fox or is that 380 00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:55.839 kind of just that is what the fox says. 381 00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:59.559 The red foxes have a different tone to their bark, 382 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:01.200 but it it's very similar. 383 00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:04.400 Oh, I had no idea. I didn't even know that 384 00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:07.359 they did much vocalizing. So she's she's on her belly 385 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:08.000 barking at you. 386 00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:10.720 Yeah, she's barking at me, and I'm worried. I'm worried 387 00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:12.960 she's going to come charging over and bite my leg. 388 00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:15.319 And I wanted to find a stick or something like 389 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:19.519 that to defend myself, you know, but there wasn't anything around, 390 00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:24.319 and so what happened was that she stood up and 391 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:29.680 decided to run past me. Okay, and that's what she did. 392 00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:33.720 She just fast, as you can believe, just a flash boom, 393 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:39.480 and she's into the brush with her kids. And as 394 00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:44.440 I observed these foxes over time, it just so happened 395 00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:49.319 that they began to not only take on their own personalities, 396 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:51.920 but I began to see that they had an emotional 397 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:56.119 life and a cognitive life, which I didn't know before. 398 00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:58.880 Yeah. So Bill began to go out and watch them 399 00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:01.559 every day, shotting notes on his post it pat in 400 00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:05.279 his pocket and taking pictures and video and working with 401 00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:09.240