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<v Speaker 1>I want to go into some of these.

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<v Speaker 2>Head coaching I don't know, rumors, whatever you want to

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<v Speaker 2>call it, because I get asked about this stuff all

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<v Speaker 2>the time. Where do I think these guys are gonna go?

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<v Speaker 2>Who's in consideration for these jobs? Those kinds of things,

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<v Speaker 2>And it's early in the process. You know, guys still

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<v Speaker 2>have a chance to wow in the interview. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you don't think that wowing in the interview matters, let

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<v Speaker 2>me tell you about a little guyamed Vance Joseph. The

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<v Speaker 2>Advanced Joseph so wowed the Broncos when he came in

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<v Speaker 2>to interview back then. He was a position coach with Cincinnati,

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<v Speaker 2>came to interview with Gary Kubiak's staff, and Cincinnati at

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<v Speaker 2>the time blocked the.

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<v Speaker 1>Move for him to become the Broncos defensive coordinator.

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<v Speaker 2>Back then, you could do that. In fact, that was

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<v Speaker 2>one of the impetus in changing the rule about blocking

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<v Speaker 2>promotions in the NFL that you could absolutely wow in

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<v Speaker 2>the interview and it can change the perspective of an organization.

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<v Speaker 2>Nate Hackett wild in the interview. If you want an

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<v Speaker 2>example of a negative that wowed in the interview that

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<v Speaker 2>didn't work out, Nate Hackett wowed in the interview, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I think kind of pushed them off of

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<v Speaker 2>the three other candidates that they were very big on,

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<v Speaker 2>Dan Quinn, Kevin O'Connell and John gannon, oll of who

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<v Speaker 2>ultimately got head coaching jobs elsewhere in other cycles.

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<v Speaker 1>O'Connell of course.

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<v Speaker 2>With the Vikings who had a great season, John gannon

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<v Speaker 2>with Arizona who he's elevated that franchise, and Dan Quinn,

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<v Speaker 2>who we all know is in the playoffs with the

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<v Speaker 2>Washington Commanders. So it can go both ways. It can

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<v Speaker 2>go both ways when you're you know, when you're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about that process. I think that with regard to and

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<v Speaker 2>let's start with New England, with regard to their coaching situation,

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<v Speaker 2>I think they're on Ben Jonson or Mike Frabel.

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<v Speaker 1>I think they know they've got one or the other

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<v Speaker 1>in the bag.

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<v Speaker 2>And as part of the reason they made the move,

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<v Speaker 2>which you're odd, Mayo, you know, mal Well, he was

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<v Speaker 2>just he was just staying over his head. And that's

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<v Speaker 2>not to say that you can't get better. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>most coaches get better the second time around. Anyway, I

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<v Speaker 2>think back to I remember when Rahie Morris took over

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<v Speaker 2>in Tampa and they had some you know, smartly success

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever. But he was in over his head too.

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<v Speaker 2>He's way too young to be doing what he was doing.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's some guys that can handle it, in most

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<v Speaker 2>that can't. And Sean McVay is the exception, not the

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<v Speaker 2>rule and getting a job that young. As far as

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<v Speaker 2>as far as New England goes, I do I believe

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<v Speaker 2>that it's it's Ben Johnson or Mike Rabel.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't really believe that there's I mean, they'll go through.

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<v Speaker 2>The process and obviously, with respect to the Rooney Rule,

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<v Speaker 2>they'll have to do certain things. But I believe that

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<v Speaker 2>that's the direction that they're headed. And I tend to

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<v Speaker 2>lean on Mike Rabel getting the job because I suspect

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<v Speaker 2>Ben Johnson will go elsewhere. You know, we talked about

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<v Speaker 2>wowing in the interview. You can also blow it in

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<v Speaker 2>the interview. You you know, Ben Johnson, I would. I

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<v Speaker 2>think he's going to be a fine head coach. He's

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<v Speaker 2>just not the world's greatest interviewer. There have been some

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<v Speaker 2>notes from people, you know, after you've an interview before.

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<v Speaker 2>He's not the world's greatest interviewer. Some guys are bad

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<v Speaker 2>interviewers and would make bad coaches. But I think he'll

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<v Speaker 2>be a fine head coach. I just don't think he's

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<v Speaker 2>polished in the art of the interview, which is his

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<v Speaker 2>own thing, especially when you're talking to guys that are owners,

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<v Speaker 2>because typically when you're an owner of the NFL team,

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<v Speaker 2>you're probably a billionaire. You're probably somebody who's been heavily

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<v Speaker 2>involved in the business world, and it's it's just a

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<v Speaker 2>different style and process and and vernacular and jingoism that

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<v Speaker 2>you don't have. There's a disconnect between football and the

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<v Speaker 2>business world and in a sense of the way that

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<v Speaker 2>you talk, and so you know, I think that there

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<v Speaker 2>are guys who are slick talkers that can speak that

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<v Speaker 2>language or speak that lingo and understand how to how

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<v Speaker 2>to speak to those guys and wind up in jobs

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<v Speaker 2>that they probably shouldn't get. Their guys that don't do

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<v Speaker 2>the best job with that and don't get those jobs.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes.

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<v Speaker 2>With regard to the New York Jets, that's the one

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<v Speaker 2>that's the biggest question mark to me. I think they're

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<v Speaker 2>casting the widest net.

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<v Speaker 1>I sort of think they have to because I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>sure how desirable that job is.

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<v Speaker 2>You got a mess. You got to figure out your

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<v Speaker 2>Rogers situation. You just you have a mess.

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<v Speaker 1>You have a mess of a culture that's been a

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<v Speaker 1>mess of a culture for a while. You fired.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody knows that they fire Robert sala instead of giving

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<v Speaker 2>him the opportunity to turn it around this year.

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<v Speaker 1>And what a huge mistake that was.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody around the league knows that fans were done with

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<v Speaker 2>solid But I mean, you know, you make decisions based

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<v Speaker 2>on what the fans want.

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<v Speaker 1>You're going to continue being terrible.

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<v Speaker 2>Robert Salaz should have had the opportunity to turn that

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<v Speaker 2>team around this year and didn't get it. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>they weren't particularly bad in the first couple of games.

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<v Speaker 2>They just they just had some bad luck and wound up,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, wound up just throw it away the season,

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<v Speaker 2>essentially putting Oulberg in there in an untenable situation. The offense,

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<v Speaker 2>they moved from Nate Hackett Todd Downing, which was stupid.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, both neither of those guys are great offensive coordinators,

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<v Speaker 2>but that might be the one. It was a downgrade.

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<v Speaker 2>Al Loggins wasn't available to really shift that thing all

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<v Speaker 2>the way down. That's the one I have the biggest

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<v Speaker 2>question Mark saw some of these others are fairly clear.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, you know, in Chicago, I think they want

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<v Speaker 1>Ben Johnson.

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<v Speaker 2>I would say that the person that maybe the most

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<v Speaker 2>skeptical might be the guy who's making the decision there

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<v Speaker 2>in Ryan Poles. And we'll see how that goes, because

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<v Speaker 2>I think Ben Johnson has made it clear that he

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<v Speaker 2>wants a unity of vision from ownership general manager himself,

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<v Speaker 2>and that is that he wants a general manager who's

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<v Speaker 2>basically going to.

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<v Speaker 1>Do what he asks.

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<v Speaker 2>He wants a guy who's like, I need you to

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<v Speaker 2>go get this, figure out a way to go get this,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's nothing to be said for that. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>that's sort of in the end the relationship that Sean

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<v Speaker 2>Payton and George Peyton have sort of come into, and

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<v Speaker 2>it really caters to both their skill sets. I said

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<v Speaker 2>earlier the show, I think that, you know, Sean Payton

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<v Speaker 2>causes George to be a little bit more aggressive, and

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<v Speaker 2>George Peyton rains Sean Payton in when is when he

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<v Speaker 2>would otherwise be too aggressive. And you go back and

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<v Speaker 2>look at the Saint situation, some of the things that

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<v Speaker 2>they did, they were too aggressive with those kinds of things.

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<v Speaker 2>Then the state situation, which is up for grabs. I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's one of the toughest jobs out there. You're

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<v Speaker 2>you're facing an entire rebuild in overhaul, You're at a

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<v Speaker 2>cap hell.

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<v Speaker 1>You got to figure that situation out.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't have a ton of contracts that are really

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<v Speaker 2>malleable in terms of being able to alleviate that. I

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<v Speaker 2>believe they'll offer that job to Aaron Glenn. I think

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<v Speaker 2>he's the favorite for it in New Orleans, and we'll

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<v Speaker 2>see if he takes it. I think he would be

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<v Speaker 2>in contention for the New York Jets' job as well.

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<v Speaker 2>You've got the Jacksonville job, which you know, I personally

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<v Speaker 2>think that Ben Johnson is the apple their eye. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's interesting to me because they've not fired Trent Balki,

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<v Speaker 2>but people are freaking out if they didn't do it that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, they haven't fired him yet.

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<v Speaker 2>They're gonna go through this process and they're gonna talk

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<v Speaker 2>to these head coaches. Ja Shaan Cod's gonna give them

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<v Speaker 2>if he finds a guy and he's convinced that it's

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<v Speaker 2>the guy, and they say they got to get rid

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<v Speaker 2>of Trent Bualkiy and get their own guy, and they'll.

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<v Speaker 1>They'll punt on Trent Balkey.

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<v Speaker 2>They just they need a general manager in there right

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<v Speaker 2>now running operations. All the other coaching searches have that, So,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I think Ben Johnson, with the apple of

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<v Speaker 2>their eye, I do believe that they'll Leam Cohen will

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<v Speaker 2>get strong consideration there. And then there's an outside shot

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<v Speaker 2>that that you go the Pete Carroll route and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>put the band back together. There's obviously a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>connections there at Jacksonville. I think the fans would probably

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<v Speaker 2>groan if they heard this, But you know, guys like

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<v Speaker 2>Daryl Bevell and Robert Sala and Gus Bradley and all

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<v Speaker 2>those guys that Carol would bring and put on the

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<v Speaker 2>staff in various positions.

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<v Speaker 1>All those guests have been there before.

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<v Speaker 2>There's plenty of connection to that Jacksonville Jaguars, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>think with that. So I would not be surprised if

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<v Speaker 2>that was like a dark horse lurking out there. Get

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<v Speaker 2>Pete Carroll in there to stabilize the culture. And I

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<v Speaker 2>don't particularly think that's a bad move. I think that

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<v Speaker 2>Liam Cohen is the wild card there in the sense

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<v Speaker 2>that you bring it in, you know, another king Maker

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<v Speaker 2>Baker Mayfield offensive coordinator, and you don't really know you

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<v Speaker 2>know what you're getting in terms of head coach, what

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<v Speaker 2>he what he brings the head coach. But you've got

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<v Speaker 2>to stabilize that thing that the Doug Peterson thing didn't

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<v Speaker 2>work and it's just for whatever reason, kept getting worse.

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<v Speaker 1>And you've got a quarterback there.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's it's a situation where you you've got

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<v Speaker 2>something you've got the bones to build around.

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<v Speaker 1>Might be a two year project.

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<v Speaker 2>But but a guy like Pete Carroll, I mean, if you've

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<v Speaker 2>got to go somewhere, you know, why not. And the

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<v Speaker 2>question of whether some of these other jobs going to

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<v Speaker 2>open up, we thought we do know about the Colts

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<v Speaker 2>defensive coordinator. I think there are some guys that they'll

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<v Speaker 2>look at there. I think I think Chris Grris, not

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<v Speaker 2>the former player, we'll get, uh, we'll get a look.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Jim Leonard will get a look. I made

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<v Speaker 2>I made a crack earlier today. I think people took

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<v Speaker 2>it serious about John Paganna, our buddy figure of which

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<v Speaker 2>I texted coach bags earlier.

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<v Speaker 1>It made a crack about.

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<v Speaker 2>Him, you know, potentially getting jobs because his brother Chuck

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<v Speaker 2>was the head coach there, and there's kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>running joke in Indy that Chuck Pagotnall ran the cover

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<v Speaker 2>who defense, But you know, I don't. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know I didn't ask him because I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>want to. You know, I wouldn't put him on the

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<v Speaker 2>spot as far as that goes, But I you know

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<v Speaker 2>it maybe that he would get the defensive coordinators, which

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<v Speaker 2>I mean he coach PAGs has been a defensive coordinator there.

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<v Speaker 2>He did a fine job with the Raiders stepping in

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<v Speaker 2>there for for Ken Norton and all that. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>he's been a fine defense coordator before. He absolutely deserves

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<v Speaker 2>defensive coordinator consideration. For whatever reason, his name is floated

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<v Speaker 2>around there as being very hot, obviously contributing to Washington commanders.

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<v Speaker 2>And they run this year, and then there's questions about

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<v Speaker 2>if other jobs are going to open. The Giants job.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been telling everybody this the whole time. I never

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<v Speaker 2>thought that was gonna open. I still don't think it's

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<v Speaker 2>gonna open. I do believe they're running it back. Jim

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<v Speaker 2>what's his name, Mara John Morrow said said pretty much

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<v Speaker 2>that today. I do believe that they'll be on the

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<v Speaker 2>hunt for a bridge quarterback, a guy like Carson Wentz.

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<v Speaker 1>That they can bring in.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I don't know that they'll go rookie right

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<v Speaker 2>there at the top with the quarterback position.

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<v Speaker 1>They might go somewhere else and then come back and

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<v Speaker 1>get a quarterback later.

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<v Speaker 2>You could probably get Carson Wentz as a bridge to

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<v Speaker 2>a Quinn yours and come away looking pretty all right.

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<v Speaker 2>They've got the bare bones with some pieces. Really, what

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<v Speaker 2>they need to be doing is fixing that offensive line.

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<v Speaker 2>The Giants fixing that offensive line. They've got skill position players.

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<v Speaker 2>Tyrold Tracy is nice. We all know how much I

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<v Speaker 2>love Molique Neighbors. You got Wandale Robinson, Clayton. They've got players,

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<v Speaker 2>They've got skill position players. The question is the offensive

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<v Speaker 2>line there. But I do believe they running it back

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<v Speaker 2>with Shane and Brian Dabele, and I you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>think that was the plan all along. The question really,

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<v Speaker 2>I think as far as jobs pop it open, is

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<v Speaker 2>the potential the Raiders job popping open, and that would

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<v Speaker 2>the interest to me because I think if Ben Johnson

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<v Speaker 2>takes the Patriots, Mike Rabel would be somebody that would

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<v Speaker 2>be in line for that Raider's job. There's obviously the

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<v Speaker 2>Tom Brady connection everybody likes to point out, but I

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<v Speaker 2>believe that Mike Vrabel would be somebody who would be

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<v Speaker 2>in line for that. The question is who would be

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<v Speaker 2>his offensive coordinator, because if Rabel does take the New

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<v Speaker 2>England job, you know, you could break Josh McDaniels, put

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<v Speaker 2>the band back together, all that kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't break Josh McDaniels back to Las Vegas.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's interesting because the Raiders kind of clean house

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<v Speaker 2>on that Patriots culture kind of thing. Vrabel's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>been the one guy from that that's been successful.

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<v Speaker 1>And stood apart from it.

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<v Speaker 2>But Rabel's picks of offensive coordinators, you know, Arthur Smith

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<v Speaker 2>was the most successful.

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<v Speaker 1>He's up there in Pittsburgh.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think you're I don't think he's making a

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<v Speaker 2>lateral move, and I certainly don't think Pittburgh getting ready him.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know Todd Downing, he bringing it. Todd Downing

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<v Speaker 2>was a disaster, which the Raiders already know. They they've

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<v Speaker 2>dealt with offensive quardator Todd Downing before. So it'd be

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<v Speaker 2>interesting to see maybe he brings in like Tommy Reese

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<v Speaker 2>or somebody like that, and then that brings you to

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<v Speaker 2>the Bears.

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<v Speaker 1>And there's a skins him there because you know you've

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<v Speaker 1>got Ryan Poles the general manager.

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<v Speaker 2>You hire Ben Johnson, You are you hiring a guy

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<v Speaker 2>that's gonna put you out of a job.

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<v Speaker 1>How organization the aligned are you in that regard?

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<v Speaker 2>And I do believe that Vrabel would be in play

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<v Speaker 2>there for for Chicago as well.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't. I don't think much of these are set

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<v Speaker 1>in stone.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's kind of a waiting for the Ben

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<v Speaker 2>Johnson domino to fall, the Mike Rabel domino to fall,

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<v Speaker 2>that everything else kind of goes in there. I think

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<v Speaker 2>New Orleans is the one team that's kind of apart

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<v Speaker 2>from that, and I think Aaron Glenn is probably gonna

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<v Speaker 2>wind up with the job there. But it's fascinating to

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<v Speaker 2>watch as this thing sort of kicks off. I'll put

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<v Speaker 2>together like an official guess.

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<v Speaker 1>Over there on Twitter tomorrow or something.

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<v Speaker 2>We always have fun with this every year, like donating

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<v Speaker 2>to charity for how many I missed that kind of stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>So we'll put something together. We'll put something together tomorrow

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<v Speaker 2>on Twitter. But that's where I think it stands. I

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<v Speaker 2>do believe that Ben Johnson is in play and all

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<v Speaker 2>those places that everybody wants him.

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<v Speaker 1>I do.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't think it's he's in play in

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<v Speaker 2>New York, and I don't think he would go there.

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<v Speaker 2>But beyond that, and so I think we're all waiting

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<v Speaker 2>for those dominoes to fall. My gut is that Vrabel

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<v Speaker 2>winds up in New England, Johnson winds up in Chicago,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, Jacksonville winds up looking between you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like I said, a Pete Carroll or Liam Collen, whether

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<v Speaker 2>they want to go New OC or whether they want

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<v Speaker 2>a culture stability thing. It just depends. I do believe

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<v Speaker 2>the Raiders will make a move next week. We'll see,

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<v Speaker 2>but it could go into its early in the process,

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<v Speaker 2>could go any which way.