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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to Mythic Mind. We pursue wisdom in

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<v Speaker 1>the past between primary secondary worlds. I'm your host, Andrew Snyder,

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<v Speaker 1>and I am always grateful for your company. For some

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<v Speaker 1>good news, I'm recording quite a few interviews these days,

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<v Speaker 1>and so we're going to have an episode each week

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<v Speaker 1>of November instead of our normal every other week schedule.

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<v Speaker 1>For this episode, I had a conversation with Aaron Barr,

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<v Speaker 1>who was on the show a while back alongside David

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<v Speaker 1>Rowe as we discussed Tlkien short story Farmer Giles of

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<v Speaker 1>Ham and so you can go back in and listen

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<v Speaker 1>to that if you're interested as well. Aaron is the

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<v Speaker 1>author of a joyful outpost exploring the household economy of

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<v Speaker 1>the Beavers from the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe

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<v Speaker 1>and Erin, by the way, is also a patron and

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<v Speaker 1>so he's clearly a man who has his life put together.

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<v Speaker 1>His book is a great read, and it's a fairly

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<v Speaker 1>quick read at that, and so I definitely think that

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<v Speaker 1>you should pick it up. Well, nowl'se go ahead and

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<v Speaker 1>jump into our conversation. I would like to welcome Aaron

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<v Speaker 1>Bear back to the show. It's been a little while.

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<v Speaker 1>Last time we discussed Farmer Giles of Ham along with

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<v Speaker 1>David Rowe, and so it's been a little while. Why

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<v Speaker 1>don't you go ahead and just remind us a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about kind of who you are and you can

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<v Speaker 1>throw in there what brought you to Lewis as well?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah for sure. Well, first off, thanks for having me on.

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<v Speaker 2>I got the invite back, which is always the test, right,

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<v Speaker 2>so right, grateful to have another chance to chat with

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<v Speaker 2>you and talk about the Beaver Book I call it.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I am a school teacher in Utah. I've

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<v Speaker 2>been teaching at the school I'm Att's in middle school.

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<v Speaker 2>It was my fifth year there. I teach language arts

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<v Speaker 2>for ninth grade and seventh grade, and so my ninth

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<v Speaker 2>graders we actually just started reading George Orwell's Animal Farm

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<v Speaker 2>for the year, which is actually kind of fun on

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<v Speaker 2>the eve of an election. And then my seventh graders

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<v Speaker 2>are about to start at Shakespeare play, which is always

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<v Speaker 2>fun because we we grab costumes from our drama teacher

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<v Speaker 2>and dress up and have a good time with that.

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<v Speaker 1>Wonderful I remember my day's doing Julius Caesar in middle

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<v Speaker 1>or high school and doing dress up and it's a

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<v Speaker 1>good time.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, It's always memorable for the students. So I

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<v Speaker 2>was trying to make Shakespeare fun. You know a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of kids at that age when they when they read Shakespeare,

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<v Speaker 2>like I hate reading him, and so any avenue you

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<v Speaker 2>can use to you know, kind of make it a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit lighter, a little more fun for them. It's

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<v Speaker 2>it's definitely a worthy adventure. Yeah. What else. Uh, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a father of three worth on the way as well,

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<v Speaker 2>coming in in this next spring. I've been married to

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<v Speaker 2>my wife of nine years, and I'm deacon up my

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<v Speaker 2>church and been able to teach classes for people who

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<v Speaker 2>are either newer to our church in particular or to

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<v Speaker 2>the Christian faith in general, and so I've been very

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<v Speaker 2>thankful to serving that capacity. Uh. Probably probably enough about

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<v Speaker 2>me turning to Lewis, though, you know, I I haven't

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<v Speaker 2>influenced by Lewis for for a very long time. Growing up,

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<v Speaker 2>I was very taken with the Narnia chronicles, especially the Lion,

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<v Speaker 2>the Witch, and the Wardrobe. And then when I got older,

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<v Speaker 2>may being a young adult, I's gotten too as apologetic.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think of, like, you know, mere Christianity, screw

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<v Speaker 2>tape letters, but even some of his stuff on the

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<v Speaker 2>Christian life too, like a like a letter to Malcolm

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<v Speaker 2>that's excellent. I was really taken with with with those

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<v Speaker 2>as a young adult, and as I started pursuing a

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<v Speaker 2>career in teaching, I really got into his literary stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>so gar and criticism, the discard image essays like on stories.

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<v Speaker 2>I was really taken with those, and they're really they

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<v Speaker 2>He's really shaped my thinking on a lot of different things.

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<v Speaker 2>You probably can agree to that, oh.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh. Currently I'm working on a piece in regards to

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<v Speaker 2>the Fairy Queen, so I'm reading some of Lewis's stuff

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<v Speaker 2>on on that. So his couple of works, his big

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<v Speaker 2>book on sixteenth century literature, and then another smaller one

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<v Speaker 2>where it's like a series of lectures called Spencer's Images

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<v Speaker 2>of Life. So I'm always essentially I always have a

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<v Speaker 2>steady diet of Lewis in my life.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's I think it's quite healthy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like, of course you want to eat like

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<v Speaker 2>all all these greens and proteins. I view Lewis in

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<v Speaker 2>that same.

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<v Speaker 1>Way, right, Yeah. With as prolific as Lewis obviously was,

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<v Speaker 1>both in his more academic work as well as popular works,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know the fact that you know, we recognize

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's all good. Like, what what do you think

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<v Speaker 1>makes Lewis so compelling? Like what makes him so good?

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<v Speaker 1>As brought up a question as that is, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a really tough question. I think you need to

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<v Speaker 2>maybe start with, Well, first off, the broad appeal, right,

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<v Speaker 2>everyone loves him. I live in Utah, and it's I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's the one state in the Union that has

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<v Speaker 2>never been predominantly Christian because of the LDS. Lardy Saint

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<v Speaker 2>or Mormon Church. But Mormons loved him. They love Lewis.

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<v Speaker 2>I went to a C. S. Lewis play on stage.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you've been to one of those before.

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't, but it was really excellent. It was really fun.

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<v Speaker 2>But I all wager that the theater was packed, and

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<v Speaker 2>I a'll wager like ninety to ninety five percent of

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<v Speaker 2>the crowd was what was LDS and Mormon. I think

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<v Speaker 2>part of his appeal is he's able to just convey

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<v Speaker 2>things in such an interesting way and in a subversive way,

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like a K. Shesterday, which there's an obvious

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<v Speaker 2>influence there. But then also you know, maybe pulling in

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<v Speaker 2>on stories and why is fiction in particular is so

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<v Speaker 2>compelling the Nardia Chronicles and you know, the Ransom trilogy

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<v Speaker 2>is starting to make a comeback. You're probably on the

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<v Speaker 2>front lines for for why that's happening, doing what I can. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but he's able to just create this this atmosphere, this

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<v Speaker 2>a donegality you could say that's is not rival by

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<v Speaker 2>many other writers that have you know, written recently. You

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<v Speaker 2>know the courser is Tolking, but you probably put the

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<v Speaker 2>list on, you know, one hand.

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<v Speaker 1>Of those kind of writers, right, Yeah, And you know

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<v Speaker 1>regarding to that donegality idea of his writing, you just

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<v Speaker 1>sort of infused with a influence, right, It's like a

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<v Speaker 1>state of things he talks about that. I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>in on stories where you know, he says that what

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<v Speaker 1>really makes for a good story is not just the

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<v Speaker 1>adrenaline rush of the plot progression, but it's the familiarity

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<v Speaker 1>that actually calls you, you know, further up and further

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<v Speaker 1>into a state of being, and that it's that's what

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<v Speaker 1>makes for good writing. I think it's true whether you're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about story or is nonfiction. It's like he doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>just want to teach you things. Although he does that

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<v Speaker 1>he wants to call you up to arresting the eternal good.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it's all on Plato, right, Professor Kirk says.

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<v Speaker 1>And so he really lays it out right there kind

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<v Speaker 1>of what he's doing. And I think that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>whether talking is his non fiction or is fiction. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>he has distilled so much of pre modern wisdom that

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<v Speaker 1>then he kind of repackages for the everyday modern, which

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<v Speaker 1>I think that that's really his strong hook, and to

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<v Speaker 1>the point where you know, people will read Lewis and

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<v Speaker 1>say that, you know, he's so prophetic and anticipating kind

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<v Speaker 1>of where culture was headed. And I mean he very

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<v Speaker 1>much was, you know, read something like that the Ransom series, right,

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<v Speaker 1>read that hideous strength, you know, read even the cultural

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<v Speaker 1>critiques of Narnia, you know, the Experiment House and all

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<v Speaker 1>that stuff. That she's definitely was anticipating where things were going.

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<v Speaker 1>But really I think that what makes him so powerful.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just the fact that he had a pre modern perspective.

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<v Speaker 1>He understood things like like what does it mean to

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<v Speaker 1>be man, you know, to be a human, which is

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<v Speaker 1>a question that makes sense in the postmodern world. And

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<v Speaker 1>so he just he had a different array of wisdom

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<v Speaker 1>that he was able to bring forward that so many

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<v Speaker 1>of us are simply bereft of in this world that's

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<v Speaker 1>you know, constantly given over to postmodern relativism and scientism

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<v Speaker 1>and all these things that he just does such a

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<v Speaker 1>good job of dismantling, not even in like an aggressive way,

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<v Speaker 1>but in a very windsome charming kind of way. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's one of the things that makes him

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<v Speaker 1>so compelling. But bringing it more specifically to while we're here,

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<v Speaker 1>tell us a little bit about your book. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>what's the basic premise and what led you in this direction?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and actually want to echo some of the stuff

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<v Speaker 2>that you just said, because that's one of the reasons

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<v Speaker 2>why why I wrote the book to begin with, because

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<v Speaker 2>over the past few years, I've just been been really

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<v Speaker 2>convicted about trying to recapture a biblical ontology of man,

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<v Speaker 2>or maybe to put it another way, you know, what

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<v Speaker 2>are we called too? And how does that really work

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<v Speaker 2>with our original design? And so, you know, we find

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<v Speaker 2>ourselves in a world, you know that the postmodern relativistic

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<v Speaker 2>world that is disenchanted with the good, true, and beautiful, right,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're openly aligning ourselves with dark enchantment or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the dark enchantment of the Witch's Winter. We're openly aligning

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<v Speaker 2>ourselves with that. And so, you know, turning to you

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<v Speaker 2>to the book. One of the reasons why I wrote

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<v Speaker 2>it is is not to you know, unearth some secret

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<v Speaker 2>layer to Lose's writing is kind of like a planet Narnia.

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<v Speaker 2>It's more of like trying to just call attention to

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<v Speaker 2>some of the obvious pre modern truths that Lewis Hell,

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<v Speaker 2>that Christians of old Hell regarding masculinity, feminity, what doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>mean to be an image bear? And it's through the

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<v Speaker 2>lens of you know, the beavers.

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<v Speaker 1>So the beavers are I mean in the big scoop

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<v Speaker 1>in Narnia, I guess the relatively minded. They play a

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<v Speaker 1>significant role in this book. Why why do you think

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<v Speaker 1>they merit this kind of attention? Like what do they

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<v Speaker 1>bring to the story.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there are a few reasons. First off, there they

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<v Speaker 2>are over they are pretty unique to the narrative. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>there are a bunch of talking animals in Narnia, but

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<v Speaker 2>not every animal can you know, sew and cook and

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<v Speaker 2>smoke a pipe, you know, So they're unique in that regard,

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<v Speaker 2>they belong more to like Kenneth Grom's The Wind the

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<v Speaker 2>Willows more than they do to Narnia. And as they're

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<v Speaker 2>more humanistic than other other animals, I would say, like

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<v Speaker 2>only reap it cheap maybe of a hunter come close

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<v Speaker 2>to rivaling the beavers and being more human than animal.

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<v Speaker 2>And so in that regard that there's really unique, but

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<v Speaker 2>also what they represent to the overall narrative and we

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<v Speaker 2>Alreay kind of talked about the pre modern worldview and

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<v Speaker 2>an opening chapter, I argue that that the beavers kind

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<v Speaker 2>of their symbols there are representations of the old world

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<v Speaker 2>of they are an image of a world that has

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<v Speaker 2>been discarded by by our modern world. And I pull

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<v Speaker 2>in that hideous strength a passage there to kind of

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<v Speaker 2>bolster that argument. And then lastly, they're one of the

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<v Speaker 2>only married couples in Narnia, and you know, seeing their

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<v Speaker 2>dynamic give us a picture. And honestly, for for our culture,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a it's it's a very countercultural picture of how

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<v Speaker 2>husbands and wives are to interact with each other. But

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<v Speaker 2>for Lewis it's just a kind of well, yeah, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>is how you know a man and woman a husband

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<v Speaker 2>and wife should should interact with each other.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, I guess, let me just ask this basic question,

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<v Speaker 1>what is the Christian home like? What does that even mean?

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<v Speaker 1>And how is that differentiated from, you know, the broader

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<v Speaker 1>cultural idea of the home that we're currently dealing with.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure, A couple a couple of points there,

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<v Speaker 2>I think maybe they answer the first question. Ultimately, I

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<v Speaker 2>think a Christian home is or should be a joyful outpost.

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<v Speaker 2>Just to maybe pull in the title of the book,

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<v Speaker 2>I think one of the most profound images from The Lion,

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<v Speaker 2>the Witch and the Wardrobe is when the Paventies are

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<v Speaker 2>sitting down to dinner with the Beavers, and Pauline Baines

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<v Speaker 2>did a wonderful picture of it, of course, and so

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<v Speaker 2>they're saying to dinner, and in that picture you see

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<v Speaker 2>so many things, right. You see them feasting, They're enjoying

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<v Speaker 2>each other's company, communing with each other. There's hospitality taking place.

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<v Speaker 2>Mister Beaver is telling them the properties of spring, telling

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<v Speaker 2>me about Aslan. Right, So there's there's the prophetic and

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<v Speaker 2>it's there, and there's there's having a great time, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's just it's a deeply charming picture. I mean that's

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<v Speaker 2>we haven't really talked about your your background that much,

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<v Speaker 2>but I mean, look at that background that is as

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<v Speaker 2>so good. And while that's happening outside the Beaver's dam,

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<v Speaker 2>it's the witch's winter, right, it's and it's an enchanted winter.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a winter that's waging war on the Nardians. That's

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<v Speaker 2>ultimately death and despair, thorns and thistles from from Genesis three.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's it's no good, and yet here's this joyful

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<v Speaker 2>outpost where they are doing what they're called to do.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I think, first and foremost that's what Christian

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<v Speaker 2>home should be. It's it's doing those those types of things,

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<v Speaker 2>doing the Christian life, regardless of what is going on

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<v Speaker 2>in the culture around them. And to the second question,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the home I think has just been severely devalued, deconstructed.

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<v Speaker 2>You could even say too, like how would we define

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<v Speaker 2>the household in the modern day. It's it feels more

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<v Speaker 2>like a pit stop than anything else where. Mom and

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<v Speaker 2>dad both working jobs, kids are off at public school,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're just maybe they stop for a quick meal, right,

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<v Speaker 2>and then they just head out to do their own

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<v Speaker 2>thing again. But and the home is just lost its

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<v Speaker 2>ultimate ultimate value, and it's and it's calling, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's to our detriment as a society.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And you know, in the way that you're describing

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<v Speaker 1>the warmth of the home in contrast to the dead

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<v Speaker 1>of winter that's surrounding the beavers, it brings to mind

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<v Speaker 1>some of the Germanic imagery of the you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>meat hall in the winter, This idea of the you

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<v Speaker 1>know that the long defeat. He used Tolkien's language, which

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<v Speaker 1>is not terribly different from what Lewis gives us, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>which obviously they're both enamored by the northern spirit. It's

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<v Speaker 1>this idea that you know, you've got the encroaching monsters

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<v Speaker 1>around you, you've got the encroaching death of winter, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you very well may expect that in the

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<v Speaker 1>end the winter's going to win out. But as long

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<v Speaker 1>as there is warmth and fellowship to be had in

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<v Speaker 1>the halls, you have an obligation to defend those halls, right,

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<v Speaker 1>to keep them full of merriment, to fan those flames

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<v Speaker 1>of the human good for as long as you possibly can.

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<v Speaker 1>So I definitely see some of that imagery here as well.

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<v Speaker 1>And in the fact that it's not just yeah, go ahead,

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<v Speaker 1>no please, Oh no, I was.

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<v Speaker 2>Just gonna jump in and say, you know, to that

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<v Speaker 2>exact point mister Badger's house and the wind the Willows,

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<v Speaker 2>which I think is a pretty clear inspiration for the

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<v Speaker 2>Beaver's home to a degree. For Lewis, he uses that.

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<v Speaker 2>Graham uses that exact same language of like, it's the

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<v Speaker 2>place Better's home is a place for you know, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>paraphrasing a bit, but you know, warriors to sit, sit

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<v Speaker 2>down and just kind of enjoy each other and revel

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<v Speaker 2>from and rest from battle. That kind of the same language.

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry, yeah, yeah, so I mean there, so there it is.

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<v Speaker 1>And I honestly I'm not really familiar with wind the Willows,

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<v Speaker 1>even though I know I should be. But yeah, so

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's good to know that I'm on the right

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<v Speaker 1>track with that. Yeah, I think that is important that

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<v Speaker 1>the difference between you know, a home and merely a

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<v Speaker 1>residence or like a house, you know, the pit stop.

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<v Speaker 1>As you said, so, how do you think we how

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<v Speaker 1>do we go about establishing a beaver like home? I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, even you know, Christians argually have this very

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<v Speaker 1>pragmatic viewpoint at the house. Very you know very often.

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<v Speaker 1>And so how do we go about intentionally cultivating this

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<v Speaker 1>kind of home that you're endorsing for us?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it starts small. It starts as small

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<v Speaker 2>as sitting down to dinner something with that nature. It's ultimately,

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<v Speaker 2>I think you need to maybe understand allegiances. Right, we

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<v Speaker 2>are servants of the King, uh, and we want to

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<v Speaker 2>image him as best as we can. And I spend

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<v Speaker 2>a good deal of time talking about the image of

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<v Speaker 2>God and how ultimately we are two image Him in

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<v Speaker 2>all things, but from being hospitable to you know, men

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<v Speaker 2>acting like men, women acting like women, all of those,

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<v Speaker 2>all those different things. So I think it probably probably

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<v Speaker 2>starts there, like where does our allegiance lie and like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, submitting ourselves to that ultimately to to to

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<v Speaker 2>the Lord obviously.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, now you know when you bring up things

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<v Speaker 1>like men acting like men, women actingct women, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>naturally it's going to bring up you know, knee ourk

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<v Speaker 1>reactions of sexism. And you know, so you think that

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<v Speaker 1>mentions boss women around or like. So, so I mean

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<v Speaker 1>how do you defend it against those obvious assults are

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<v Speaker 1>going to come from our culture?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I knew writing this it was going to be controversial,

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<v Speaker 2>but uh, you know, this is a side of Lewis

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<v Speaker 2>that we don't really hear much about. Either. Maybe it's

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<v Speaker 2>from people they they don't know the side of Lewis,

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<v Speaker 2>or maybe they know it and they just don't agree

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<v Speaker 2>with it. And that's probably a bit of both, and

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<v Speaker 2>just in the culture that we live, as you say,

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<v Speaker 2>in our highly egalitarian culture. This is offensive to many ears,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think it's really important. And so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I use essays like Membership and Democratic Education and precises

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<v Speaker 2>in the Church where Loose is articuling, articulating his thoughts

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<v Speaker 2>on that exact point, and then I'm kind of I

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<v Speaker 2>am using those essays to help shed light on what's

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<v Speaker 2>going on in the narrative, the language and wardrobe secifically

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<v Speaker 2>with the Beavers, and why their dynamic is the way

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<v Speaker 2>that that it is. And so in those essays, first off,

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<v Speaker 2>Louis does he talks about equality, obviously, and he does

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<v Speaker 2>mention there is an an equality that's necessary in our

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<v Speaker 2>culture where if we didn't have this type of equality,

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<v Speaker 2>then you know, the strong and the rich would prey

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<v Speaker 2>on the poor and the weak. And I'm sure we

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<v Speaker 2>could all you know, cite examples from history of where

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<v Speaker 2>that's actually happened, and so those kinds of guardrails are important,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's that kind of equality is only necessary in

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<v Speaker 2>a fallen world, but it doesn't really get to what

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<v Speaker 2>we're originally designed for. Coming back to ontology, and so, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>Lewis talks about in Membership about kind of stripping off

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<v Speaker 2>that disguise and being able to be who who you

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<v Speaker 2>truly are, who you're truly made to be. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I I totally affirm, you know, traditional male and female

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<v Speaker 2>roles in the book. I think, uh, that's pretty clear

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<v Speaker 2>from from from Urmia that he kind of thought the

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<v Speaker 2>same way. And so like some examples, you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>but the first one that I cite is, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's no coincidence that it's mister Beaver who's out he

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<v Speaker 2>was out there in the woods trying to save the

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<v Speaker 2>pepencies and bring them into his home rather than missus Beaver.

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<v Speaker 2>In my sound kind of like, well, why are you

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<v Speaker 2>raising this question to begin with? It seems kind of

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<v Speaker 2>out of place, But I don't think it's out of

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<v Speaker 2>place at all. I think it's a pretty relevant question

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<v Speaker 2>and something that we need to wrestle with ass as

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<v Speaker 2>a culture. Also maybe the charges of sexism or one

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<v Speaker 2>of the arguments that I make in in the book is,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, when we try to diminish or when we

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<v Speaker 2>try to blend the roles together, what what what men

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<v Speaker 2>can do, what women can do, or like what we're

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<v Speaker 2>called to When we blend them together, we're diminishing the

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<v Speaker 2>high calling that the Lord has bestowed on both men

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<v Speaker 2>and women. And so it's totally okay that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's uh, it's mister Beaver who who goes and fights

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<v Speaker 2>in the Battle of Aruna at the end of the narrative,

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<v Speaker 2>while after the battle, Missus Beaver is one of those

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<v Speaker 2>who tends and nurtures the wounded after. You know, neither

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<v Speaker 2>task is inferior to the other. I would say, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we are ultimately an unsettled people, a discontented people,

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<v Speaker 2>a coutis people, honestly, and you know, we desire the

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<v Speaker 2>glories of others while turning a blind eye to the

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<v Speaker 2>glories placed right in front of us. And one of

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<v Speaker 2>the things that I see from from the Beavers ultimately

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<v Speaker 2>is that they are content in who they're called to be,

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<v Speaker 2>and they execute it and well you know, they play

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<v Speaker 2>a very key role in the coming of the Golden

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<v Speaker 2>Age of Narnia.

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<v Speaker 1>The Mythic Mind Fellowship presents a new study led by

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<v Speaker 1>doctor Andrew Snyder, the Wisdom of Middle Earth, The Lord

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<v Speaker 1>of the Rings. This will be the first study in

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<v Speaker 1>the Wisdom of Middle Earth series, which seeks to bring

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<v Speaker 1>an array of companions together with a common desire of

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<v Speaker 1>growing in wisdom while enjoying the heartening tales of the

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<v Speaker 1>great tale weaver J. R. R. Tolkien. The Lord of

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<v Speaker 1>the Rings is a profound tale that has literally changed lives,

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<v Speaker 1>as it has for mine. And what is it that

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<v Speaker 1>makes this story so powerful and so compelling? It is

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<v Speaker 1>because Tolkien's stories are fundamentally true, and those who engage

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<v Speaker 1>with it know exactly what I mean. They speak to

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<v Speaker 1>the way that things are. As Peter Christ said in

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<v Speaker 1>The Philosophy of Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings is

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<v Speaker 1>infused with this same light that illumined the man who

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<v Speaker 1>wrote it. And that light is true, for it reveals

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<v Speaker 1>the reality of the world and life. So join us

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<v Speaker 1>on this adventure. Let us grow and wisdom together through

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<v Speaker 1>immersion in this tale, not through cheap allegorizing, but by

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<v Speaker 1>getting a better understanding of the ideas and the movements

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<v Speaker 1>of the heart that bring a tale such as this

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<v Speaker 1>to life. This twelve week study will begin with Tolkien's

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<v Speaker 1>creation account, the Iinuindulay, and then move to the beginning

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<v Speaker 1>of the Fellowship of the Ring. Each week will include

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<v Speaker 1>assigned reading from The Lord of the Rings, a short

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00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:05.319
<v Speaker 1>side lesson at the beginning of the week that addresses

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00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:09.079
<v Speaker 1>a relevant theme, background story, or secondary text, and then

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<v Speaker 1>once you've had some time to do the reading, there'll

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00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:13.480
<v Speaker 1>be a longer video that serves as a guide in

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<v Speaker 1>these forests of wisdom. Also, we will have additional recommended readings,

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<v Speaker 1>an active discord channel, and weekly live meetings which will

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00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:23.359
<v Speaker 1>be recorded in case you cannot attend. Whether you are

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00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:25.319
<v Speaker 1>reading The Lord of the Rings for the first time

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414
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:58.359
<v Speaker 1>you on this road that goes ever on. Yeah, and

415
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:02.000
<v Speaker 1>that is something that you can't avoid that in Lewis,

416
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:04.000
<v Speaker 1>even if you tried, and I don't think you should try.

417
00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:07.880
<v Speaker 1>But you know, even in mere Christianity, right, you spent

418
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:11.559
<v Speaker 1>a while talking about the difference between the masculine and

419
00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:14.279
<v Speaker 1>feminine calling, the calling of males and females, and so

420
00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:16.400
<v Speaker 1>this is pretty important for Lewis. Obviously we see it

421
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:19.279
<v Speaker 1>in Narnio, Obviously we see it in the Ransom series.

422
00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:21.720
<v Speaker 1>I mean the fact that the whole Ransom series is

423
00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:24.640
<v Speaker 1>really this dialectic between Mars and Venus, the masculine and

424
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:28.240
<v Speaker 1>the feminine, and we see the way that is misrelated

425
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:29.640
<v Speaker 1>at the beginning of that hideous strength, but in the

426
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:32.160
<v Speaker 1>way it all kind of comes together as part of

427
00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:36.559
<v Speaker 1>the great dance of the Cosmos. And for Lewis, he's

428
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:39.119
<v Speaker 1>very consistent with this that the way that you really

429
00:25:39.319 --> 00:25:43.200
<v Speaker 1>become yourself is by playing your role in the great dance.

430
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.039
<v Speaker 1>And what that means is we have to recognize that

431
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:49.480
<v Speaker 1>different things are different things, different things have different parts

432
00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:52.279
<v Speaker 1>to play within that dance. And you know that goes

433
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:55.920
<v Speaker 1>all the way up to the outermost edges of the cosmos,

434
00:25:56.200 --> 00:26:00.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, moving in imitation or in reflection of the

435
00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:04.079
<v Speaker 1>the glory of God, all the way down to the

436
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:07.079
<v Speaker 1>male and female in the home. And that's kind of

437
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:09.920
<v Speaker 1>where you end the book discussing that cosmic harmony idea,

438
00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:12.680
<v Speaker 1>So we'll come back to that. But yeah, the point

439
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:15.680
<v Speaker 1>is I entirely agree this is fundamental to Lewis, and

440
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:20.960
<v Speaker 1>I think it's fundamental to becoming ourselves to figure out

441
00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:24.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of who you are in this existence that transcends yourself.

442
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:26.640
<v Speaker 2>You know.

443
00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:29.599
<v Speaker 1>In addition to there's various essays that you mentioned. Also

444
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:33.640
<v Speaker 1>in Screwtape proposes a toast, you know, he addresses this

445
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:37.640
<v Speaker 1>idea of like democracy run wild a lot where we

446
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:40.079
<v Speaker 1>take the idea or you know, Screwtape and his people

447
00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:42.680
<v Speaker 1>are gonna take the idea of democracy and try to

448
00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:45.799
<v Speaker 1>stretch it out to apply to everything, to the point

449
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:50.200
<v Speaker 1>where we just flatten everything out until it's nothing. And

450
00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:54.839
<v Speaker 1>that's stomonic becase it's a way to become nothing. And well,

451
00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:58.880
<v Speaker 1>God's in the business of making something, and so that

452
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:01.200
<v Speaker 1>idea of distinction really is quite important. I think that

453
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:09.880
<v Speaker 1>you handle that really well. Now you talk about hospitality

454
00:27:09.880 --> 00:27:12.319
<v Speaker 1>a good bit, which is obviously mean important part of

455
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:16.160
<v Speaker 1>a home. Now you know, I'm an introvert. Does this

456
00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:17.680
<v Speaker 1>mean I need to have people over every day or like,

457
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:20.799
<v Speaker 1>what is hospitality? What's that look like every day?

458
00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Man? No, but I do think it's a It's ultimately

459
00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:27.960
<v Speaker 2>an important part of the Christian life. You know, we

460
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:30.960
<v Speaker 2>aren't meant to do it by by ourselves obviously, right.

461
00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:36.359
<v Speaker 2>We need a community around us, supporting us, encouraging us,

462
00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:40.039
<v Speaker 2>keeping us accountable, of course, And it does go back

463
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:44.440
<v Speaker 2>to the image of God. You know, we are as

464
00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:51.359
<v Speaker 2>image bearers recipients of the great hosts hospitality. Right, We're

465
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:56.640
<v Speaker 2>welcomed into this world, and so as image bearers we

466
00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:01.680
<v Speaker 2>should regularly get together with developers for that for that reason,

467
00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:06.720
<v Speaker 2>to to encourage and equip each other. And coming to

468
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:08.599
<v Speaker 2>the story, maybe to the lninglist and the wardrobe, you

469
00:28:08.599 --> 00:28:11.880
<v Speaker 2>could argue, you know that without hospitality, the whole story

470
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:17.079
<v Speaker 2>doesn't really happen. Right, There are multiple basness is I

471
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:20.039
<v Speaker 2>could cite, but the for the Beavers, you know, if

472
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:24.200
<v Speaker 2>missus Biebers didn't welcome the Pepencys into his home, then

473
00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:26.359
<v Speaker 2>who knows what would have happened. They would still have

474
00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:29.000
<v Speaker 2>been stranded in the woods. But you could also go

475
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:31.400
<v Speaker 2>go farther back and talk about mister Thomas and him

476
00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:36.519
<v Speaker 2>welcoming Lucy into his home, to the Great Professor welcoming

477
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:38.799
<v Speaker 2>the Pepancy children into his home. I mean, it's all

478
00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:42.720
<v Speaker 2>over the place, right, and so it's really important to

479
00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:46.200
<v Speaker 2>be hospitable and to take joy in it as well.

480
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.039
<v Speaker 2>I think it's easy to think of it as just

481
00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:52.839
<v Speaker 2>another task to be wayhed down with, and honestly, you know,

482
00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:56.920
<v Speaker 2>I know I've been guilty of that for sure at times.

483
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:01.559
<v Speaker 2>But it's well with the Beaver's. You know, the first

484
00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:04.680
<v Speaker 2>thing that happens when they get into their home. You know,

485
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:08.319
<v Speaker 2>Missus Beaver, she's sewing a line and then she sees

486
00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:11.240
<v Speaker 2>them and immediately she gets up and welcomes them into

487
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:13.839
<v Speaker 2>the home and whist the girls off to make dinner

488
00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:18.200
<v Speaker 2>while mister Beaver takes the boys out to find the

489
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:22.559
<v Speaker 2>fish or fish. And so it's just kind of it's

490
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.599
<v Speaker 2>very clear for them, it's just a muscle. That's just

491
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:29.359
<v Speaker 2>like it's just natural. It's completely natural to them, and

492
00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:32.519
<v Speaker 2>getting to that point for us, I'm definitely not there yet,

493
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:34.039
<v Speaker 2>but I strive to be.

494
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And so you know, as you mentioned, that are

495
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:40.440
<v Speaker 1>all these examples of where hospitality plays important role, and

496
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:42.640
<v Speaker 1>of course, on the inversion of that, you also get

497
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:45.759
<v Speaker 1>the faux hospitality of the Witch to Edmund, and so

498
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:48.759
<v Speaker 1>you get a counter example of that as well that

499
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:52.400
<v Speaker 1>you know both you know, Peter and Gang that you know,

500
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:56.960
<v Speaker 1>they're getting drawn in through hospitality ultimately closer to Asland. Right,

501
00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:59.319
<v Speaker 1>this is the first time they really hear about Asland

502
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:02.000
<v Speaker 1>is the home of the Beavers. As they're being drawn

503
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:05.759
<v Speaker 1>into this realm of warmth and love and ultimately life

504
00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:09.279
<v Speaker 1>that is befitting of such an introduction as well as

505
00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:13.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, Edmund is being invited into the seduction essentially

506
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:16.599
<v Speaker 1>of the Witch and she's being you know, it's kind

507
00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:18.960
<v Speaker 1>of like, you know, Lady Wisdom and Lady Folly here,

508
00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:23.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, are both offering these invitations to feasts, but

509
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.759
<v Speaker 1>with very different ends. And so I think that is

510
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:34.160
<v Speaker 1>an interesting contrast. Now, once they leave the Beavers, they

511
00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:40.480
<v Speaker 1>encounter Father Christmas. How do you defend Santa Claus against

512
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:43.519
<v Speaker 1>the objections of Lewsis just thrown stuff in there at

513
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:44.079
<v Speaker 1>this point.

514
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Honestly, man, when we send you these questions,

515
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:51.599
<v Speaker 2>and like, this is the hardest question that you've sent me,

516
00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:55.319
<v Speaker 2>I don't I don't know what to do with this one. Thankfully,

517
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:58.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, there has been some literary criticism from since

518
00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:02.119
<v Speaker 2>The Lion the w Order was published. I'm thinking of

519
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:06.400
<v Speaker 2>one of the better ones for sure on this point

520
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.079
<v Speaker 2>is Planet Narnia. And so you know, Michael Warre talks

521
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:13.119
<v Speaker 2>about Father Christmas being a son of Jupiter, and how

522
00:31:13.400 --> 00:31:17.559
<v Speaker 2>just that that jovial atmosphere from the Lion Wage and

523
00:31:17.559 --> 00:31:22.880
<v Speaker 2>the Wardrobe. It makes sense in that respect to have

524
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.319
<v Speaker 2>Father Christmas in there because he's he's there bestowing gifts

525
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:29.480
<v Speaker 2>and it's it gives a kind of personalized nature as

526
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.799
<v Speaker 2>well to the gift giving because you know, ultimately the

527
00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:35.680
<v Speaker 2>Linduage and the Wardrobe is about the death of winter

528
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:39.519
<v Speaker 2>and the coming of spring. Right the which is winter

529
00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:43.279
<v Speaker 2>uh being put to death, that the spell is broken

530
00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:47.640
<v Speaker 2>and in spring comes in the doors that were once

531
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:52.200
<v Speaker 2>veiled have now been unveiled. Right That that eschatological language

532
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:57.920
<v Speaker 2>right there. And so that in itself is the ultimate gift.

533
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:01.960
<v Speaker 2>But having you know, a your give gifts to children

534
00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:06.519
<v Speaker 2>also just kind of plays a cool It gives a

535
00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:11.079
<v Speaker 2>cool picture to the whole jovial atmosphere of Jupiter.

536
00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:14.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And first of all, my first reaction when people

537
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:19.039
<v Speaker 1>go at on for this is Lewis is writing a

538
00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:21.640
<v Speaker 1>fairy tale. First of all, it's not necessarily like high fantasy,

539
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:26.720
<v Speaker 1>and I think that allows for more freedom of it's fun.

540
00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:29.920
<v Speaker 1>But even more profound than that, I think that you're right.

541
00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:34.039
<v Speaker 1>I think that there's I mean, what better symbol is

542
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.759
<v Speaker 1>there in the modern mythos, at least of joviality than

543
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:41.079
<v Speaker 1>Father Christmas. And you know, in the story, he shows

544
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:44.160
<v Speaker 1>up and he symbolizes the fact that time is now

545
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:46.920
<v Speaker 1>moving and that we're actually now headed toward Christmas and

546
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:50.599
<v Speaker 1>ultimately towards Spring. And so Father Christmas shows up and

547
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.359
<v Speaker 1>you know, principally what he's doing is he's acting as

548
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:56.039
<v Speaker 1>a herald of Aslan. He says that the king is coming,

549
00:32:56.079 --> 00:33:00.720
<v Speaker 1>Aslan is coming, and so he is the forerunner to Asland,

550
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:03.839
<v Speaker 1>who is himself the jovial spirit in the Lion, the

551
00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:06.960
<v Speaker 1>Witch and the Wardrobe. You know, he is the joy

552
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:11.839
<v Speaker 1>that comes after a hard won victory through the winter. Yeah,

553
00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:15.599
<v Speaker 1>that's what the influence of Joe fundamentally is. And so

554
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:21.359
<v Speaker 1>I think that mythologically it works, and also I just

555
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:22.960
<v Speaker 1>think it works as fairy tales.

556
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:27.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I love that he's also Lewis put him in

557
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:30.079
<v Speaker 2>his proper place too, as a servant of Asland right

558
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:33.759
<v Speaker 2>right to you know, the the deification of Santa Claus

559
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:37.279
<v Speaker 2>in this day and age. Yeah, I'm a one of

560
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:40.200
<v Speaker 2>those people that, you know, I've heard criticisms of, like,

561
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:43.519
<v Speaker 2>what the heck, why is King Arthur and Merlin in

562
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:47.359
<v Speaker 2>that hideous strength? I'm like, because it's awesome, exactly.

563
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:54.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The the Ransom series is if you try to

564
00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:58.119
<v Speaker 1>just summarize the plot to somebody who is not familiar,

565
00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:01.519
<v Speaker 1>it sounds insane, but it's good and so compelling you

566
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:04.680
<v Speaker 1>actually read it. I mean the fact that, okay, you've

567
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:07.480
<v Speaker 1>got this philologist who goes to Venus to punch out

568
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:09.400
<v Speaker 1>the devil and then he has to come back to

569
00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:12.480
<v Speaker 1>meet Merlin and you know, become the pen Dragon. It's like,

570
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:17.920
<v Speaker 1>it's crazy, it's so good.

571
00:34:18.039 --> 00:34:21.320
<v Speaker 2>Random. Do you ever think you'll see the Ransom trilogy

572
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:21.800
<v Speaker 2>on the screen?

573
00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:27.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh? I have my hopes. I have my hopes. The

574
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:30.800
<v Speaker 1>tricky one would be, uh, how do you film Perilandra?

575
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:33.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

576
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:40.440
<v Speaker 1>I guess really convenient camera angles probably, But I certainly

577
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:44.719
<v Speaker 1>hope so. I certainly hope so. And that is I'm

578
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:49.280
<v Speaker 1>so glad to see a resurgence or a there seems

579
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:51.599
<v Speaker 1>to be a popular emphasis on the Ransom series. People

580
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:53.440
<v Speaker 1>seem to be discovering it for the first time. I mean,

581
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:55.199
<v Speaker 1>you know, I just discovered it the first time like

582
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:59.039
<v Speaker 1>a couple of years ago, and it basically became my

583
00:34:59.079 --> 00:35:02.239
<v Speaker 1>personality for a while. Well, and I just you know,

584
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:03.920
<v Speaker 1>the more that I tweeted about it, more I talked

585
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:05.840
<v Speaker 1>about it, the more people seem to be jumping into it.

586
00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:09.000
<v Speaker 1>And there's definitely an excitement there because it's just, I think,

587
00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:12.320
<v Speaker 1>such an im important story. I mean, simply a good

588
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:14.960
<v Speaker 1>story on a storytelling angle, but it's such an important

589
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:21.760
<v Speaker 1>story philosophically as a way to re enchant the modern age. Yeah.

590
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:23.800
<v Speaker 1>But I could go off and range them for a while.

591
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:29.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, I definitely. You know, that Book and The

592
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Abolition of Man, those are the two that you know,

593
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:35.480
<v Speaker 2>everyone's talking about nowadays because there's so many parallels. Yeah, right,

594
00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:39.119
<v Speaker 2>but I think that Hideous Strength goes farther, and I

595
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:41.840
<v Speaker 2>think Lewis probably agree, just because it is story and

596
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:46.280
<v Speaker 2>it is able to circumvent those those maybe those washful

597
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:50.679
<v Speaker 2>dragons and other things that kind of bar our way

598
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:54.639
<v Speaker 2>from really appreciating a point or a philosophy.

599
00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:58.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you know, a couple of years ago or

600
00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:00.880
<v Speaker 1>whenever it was. You know, there's that article coming out

601
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:02.760
<v Speaker 1>saying that Lord of the Rings is going to radicalize

602
00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:06.480
<v Speaker 1>you to the bar right or something. But Lord of

603
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:08.400
<v Speaker 1>the Rings does nothing to that effect like the Ransom

604
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:11.480
<v Speaker 1>Cherries does. When you know, at the end of Out

605
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:13.719
<v Speaker 1>of the Silent Planet, Lewis basically comes out and says,

606
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, in his epilogue, by the way, this is real,

607
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:20.719
<v Speaker 1>go cast down the demonic scientists. He basic just laced

608
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.440
<v Speaker 1>it out there, like I'm writing about what's really happening here,

609
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:28.920
<v Speaker 1>and so definitely some some radicalizing potential there. And I

610
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:31.239
<v Speaker 1>don't know, I mean, we need something to wake us

611
00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:34.000
<v Speaker 1>up from the just stupor of modern life. You need

612
00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:37.119
<v Speaker 1>something kind of radical to help you recognize what he's doing.

613
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:40.880
<v Speaker 1>What's your favorite Lewis book?

614
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Silver Chair?

615
00:36:48.199 --> 00:36:51.239
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's a good contender. I would say Silver Cherry

616
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:54.199
<v Speaker 1>is my favorite narn you book, favorite book overall. I

617
00:36:54.199 --> 00:36:57.480
<v Speaker 1>have to give it until we have faces fair enough.

618
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:02.400
<v Speaker 2>That's that's that's really good. Yeah, that's truly good. It's

619
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:03.719
<v Speaker 2>been a couple of years though since I've read it.

620
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:06.760
<v Speaker 2>I want to it's probably your fault seeing all your

621
00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:08.760
<v Speaker 2>tweets about it. I need to return to it again.

622
00:37:09.639 --> 00:37:11.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's this kind of a book you can keep

623
00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:16.199
<v Speaker 1>returning to and discover new things, because I mean, you know,

624
00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:19.360
<v Speaker 1>the last novel he got out, and it's the one

625
00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:22.880
<v Speaker 1>that is most profoundly a myth to the point where

626
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:24.960
<v Speaker 1>you know Ransom series. You can read it and as

627
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:27.559
<v Speaker 1>long as you have some knowledge of what he's doing,

628
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:30.320
<v Speaker 1>it's easy to figure out what he's communicating on the

629
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:34.079
<v Speaker 1>ideological level, whereas un till we have faces, it's kind

630
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:35.840
<v Speaker 1>of thing you just have to enter into and then

631
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:39.639
<v Speaker 1>you walk out of it with something, and there's still

632
00:37:39.639 --> 00:37:43.840
<v Speaker 1>these fundamental questions regarding exactly what's happening, especially in you know,

633
00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:47.000
<v Speaker 1>towards the end of the book too, And that's something

634
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:49.320
<v Speaker 1>I really appreciate. So it's a little bit more solid,

635
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:51.840
<v Speaker 1>it's not quite as transparent. Well is there anything else

636
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:53.239
<v Speaker 1>that you wanted to mention or anything else you want

637
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:53.800
<v Speaker 1>to talk about?

638
00:37:54.519 --> 00:37:58.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, we could talk about the the ending, the harmony

639
00:37:58.440 --> 00:37:59.000
<v Speaker 2>of the cosmos.

640
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:00.760
<v Speaker 1>You want to do that, Yeah, yeah, please?

641
00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So may maybe to wrap the conversation in about

642
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:12.519
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the book, I I talk about

643
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:15.599
<v Speaker 2>music in Narnia and how it plays such a big

644
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:20.480
<v Speaker 2>role in h in this series as a whole. You know,

645
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:24.480
<v Speaker 2>obviously in The Magician's Nephew, which is the sixth book

646
00:38:25.239 --> 00:38:28.440
<v Speaker 2>of the Chronicles, right, Andrew, That's right, that's right. Definitely

647
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:33.480
<v Speaker 2>not the first HarperCollins geez. But yeah, the in The

648
00:38:33.519 --> 00:38:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Magician's Nephew, Aslam sings Narnia into creation, as you know,

649
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:44.119
<v Speaker 2>Degree and Uncle Andrew and Polly and Queen Jadis sees it,

650
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:47.920
<v Speaker 2>sees it come into creation, but as as an it

651
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:51.199
<v Speaker 2>is creating Narnia. There's this beautiful passage about how the

652
00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:55.960
<v Speaker 2>stars are singing back to Asla, and it's just this

653
00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:02.239
<v Speaker 2>beautiful picture of harmony, that creation itself has a voice.

654
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.119
<v Speaker 1>In your world. It's what a star is. It's not

655
00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:06.079
<v Speaker 1>what it's what a star is made of. It's not

656
00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:06.960
<v Speaker 1>what it is, right.

657
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, yeah, I'm actually I just read that to my

658
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:12.519
<v Speaker 2>daughter the other night. We're almost done with The Dawn Treader.

659
00:39:14.119 --> 00:39:18.800
<v Speaker 2>But just like Melchor's counter melody in The Silm Alien, right,

660
00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:22.159
<v Speaker 2>there is a disharmony that exists in Narnia, and it's

661
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:25.679
<v Speaker 2>really potent, you know. Obviously the Witch's Winter is very

662
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:31.920
<v Speaker 2>very potent. The Telmarines disenchanted Narnia is very very powerful

663
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:37.199
<v Speaker 2>in a sense, and we're all prey to that kind

664
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:40.480
<v Speaker 2>of that kind of thought and that kind of living.

665
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:46.800
<v Speaker 2>A big example I use in the chapter is when

666
00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:50.559
<v Speaker 2>mister Thomas welcomes Lucy into his home and as they're

667
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:53.519
<v Speaker 2>they're eating, he then you know, he uses music to

668
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:57.039
<v Speaker 2>then enchant her into sleep, and it was an act

669
00:39:57.079 --> 00:40:00.800
<v Speaker 2>of disharmony with the lion. And you know, thankfully, you know,

670
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:08.159
<v Speaker 2>Thomas recognizes that and repents of that sin. And you know,

671
00:40:08.199 --> 00:40:14.079
<v Speaker 2>I think that's a good thing for us to ponder

672
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:18.760
<v Speaker 2>where are we Are we in harmony with the lion

673
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:22.400
<v Speaker 2>or are we in disharmony? Are we giving too much

674
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:26.239
<v Speaker 2>attention to the dark enchantment of winter and not enough

675
00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:32.920
<v Speaker 2>attention to the joyous spring that's coming? Right? And so ultimately,

676
00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:36.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, for my book, it's a it's a prayer

677
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:41.159
<v Speaker 2>for for people to start thinking about those little things

678
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:45.119
<v Speaker 2>that they can do to fortify their home for the

679
00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:48.840
<v Speaker 2>growth of that kingdom and to you know, harmonize with

680
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:49.400
<v Speaker 2>with the lion.

681
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:54.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's good and I think it's a powerful connection

682
00:40:54.440 --> 00:40:57.679
<v Speaker 1>between you know, the very fibers of the cosmos, right

683
00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:00.480
<v Speaker 1>that the song that brings the cosmos into existence, as

684
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:03.920
<v Speaker 1>well as the harmony we have that we bring about

685
00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:07.199
<v Speaker 1>in our own home and even just with ourselves connected

686
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:09.480
<v Speaker 1>to the broader scene. I guess I'd be careful and

687
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:12.360
<v Speaker 1>talk about harmony with ourselves. That sounds kind of postmodern,

688
00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:15.920
<v Speaker 1>but you know, the inner harmony as a microcosm of

689
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.920
<v Speaker 1>the world that actually is above and beyond ourselves, and

690
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:23.119
<v Speaker 1>that it's when we recognize that hierarchy that's intrinsic in

691
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:26.159
<v Speaker 1>existence itself, that we actually find the pathway to meaning.

692
00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:28.960
<v Speaker 1>And you know, if we're going to take the hyperd

693
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:32.960
<v Speaker 1>democratic route and destroy all hierarchy as such, we're actually

694
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:37.199
<v Speaker 1>destroying our very pathway to happiness, to joy, to meaning.

695
00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:43.480
<v Speaker 1>We're forsaking, you know, the calling of you know, Tor

696
00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:47.400
<v Speaker 1>and Perilandra to content ourselves in our littleness and to

697
00:41:47.559 --> 00:41:51.440
<v Speaker 1>just receive and to be glad. But when we're constantly

698
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:55.639
<v Speaker 1>trying to create rather than simply receive, well we're kind

699
00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:59.760
<v Speaker 1>of lost in the Nietzschean abyss of no clear direction

700
00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:03.119
<v Speaker 1>to And so yeah, I'm really just echoing what you

701
00:42:03.199 --> 00:42:08.360
<v Speaker 1>said that there's just so much freedom in finding your

702
00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:10.440
<v Speaker 1>place rather than trying to create it out of nothing,

703
00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:13.360
<v Speaker 1>and I think that's what it means to bear the

704
00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:17.639
<v Speaker 1>image of God. We're called to reflect, not fundamentally to create.

705
00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:23.039
<v Speaker 1>So good anything else that you want to decide, I.

706
00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:24.280
<v Speaker 2>Don't think so. I don't think so.

707
00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:27.280
<v Speaker 1>All right, well good, and so I definitely appreciate you

708
00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:30.199
<v Speaker 1>coming back. Everyone go out and buy his book A

709
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Joyful Outpost, and we'll have to do this again some

710
00:42:33.880 --> 00:42:36.280
<v Speaker 1>time and maybe talks about the Lewis or something else.

711
00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:37.840
<v Speaker 1>So thanks again for popping in.

712
00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:39.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thanks for having me on.

713
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:49.239
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely I hope that you enjoyed that conversation, and again,

714
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:52.039
<v Speaker 1>remember to pick up A Joyful Outpost. And if you're

715
00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:54.000
<v Speaker 1>listening to this through the podcast, then you can find

716
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.760
<v Speaker 1>a link in the show notes and of course that

717
00:42:56.920 --> 00:43:00.159
<v Speaker 1>is my book recommendation for you this time. Also, if

718
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:02.440
<v Speaker 1>you want for me to be able to keep producing

719
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:05.400
<v Speaker 1>content like this and to keep having conversations like this

720
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:09.480
<v Speaker 1>on a regular basis, ideally I would love to get

721
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:12.119
<v Speaker 1>to a place where I can do a fresh, full

722
00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:14.440
<v Speaker 1>episode every week for you. But if you want that

723
00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:17.239
<v Speaker 1>for that to happen, then please consider supporting me on

724
00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:20.880
<v Speaker 1>Patreon at patreon dot com slash Mythic Mind, which also

725
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:24.719
<v Speaker 1>gives you access to more and ad free Mythic Mind content,

726
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:27.599
<v Speaker 1>as well as access to our Discord channel and an

727
00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:30.440
<v Speaker 1>invitation to participate in patron chats on the Mythic Mind

728
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:33.639
<v Speaker 1>Fellowship podcast. Oh and whether you become a patron or not,

729
00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:36.760
<v Speaker 1>be sure to check out the Mythic Mind Fellowship podcast

730
00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:39.679
<v Speaker 1>and subscribe to that one as well. Over there, we're

731
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:42.880
<v Speaker 1>currently working our way through the Norse poetic Eda, which

732
00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:45.480
<v Speaker 1>is just really a lot of fun, whether you read

733
00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:47.760
<v Speaker 1>the edit yourself or you just listen to our conversation.

734
00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:49.679
<v Speaker 1>I have a lot of fun with it, and I

735
00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:51.880
<v Speaker 1>think that you probably will as well, and so you

736
00:43:51.880 --> 00:43:54.119
<v Speaker 1>can listen to that whether you become a patron or not.

737
00:43:54.519 --> 00:44:22.119
<v Speaker 1>But that's it for now and until next time, godspeed,