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Speaker 1: I have a little and I made that out of play.

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When it's trying ready, it's and dreda, I shall pay more.

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I made that out of play. And when it's trying

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ready it's been rada, I shall play. It has a

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lovely body, it's with legs so short and things.

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Speaker 2: When when it is so tired.

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Speaker 1: And drops and then I want a car moreddle trainer

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and I made her out of place. And when it's

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trying ready it's and dreda, I shall pay. Nino is

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always playful and loves.

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Speaker 3: To dance and spin a happy game of brail complain

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out it's vegan cradle. Title is commde it up claim

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And when it's trying ready, I shall play. It's come

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out of graves. And when it's trying ready than.

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Speaker 4: Rad Hello, Hello, Hello, Welcome to made by Jim Bob. Today,

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as promised, is a stream about dispensationalism. We're going to

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go through the history of it, what it is, what

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it's not, it's effects on policy, it's effects on modern theology,

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and so on and so on and so on. We

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have the privilege of having posh Redneck jump on as

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well as mister J. Dyer Low volume for me, I'm

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low volume. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, Okay,

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hold on, here we go. How's that? Is that better?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 4: Stop?

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Speaker 2: Hold on?

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Speaker 4: Is that good? All right? Ah? That should be good?

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My volume? Is this good? Okay? Good? That's good? All right?

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So yeah, we'll have Jay dire on. He's coming off

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a debate to On two. I thought that was a

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pretty good debate.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 4: My position is, I think the best debate in regardless

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to Islam and Christianity is in fact whether or not

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they're compatible in the culture wars, because that's how Islam

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is tying into uh modern politics. Culture is that the

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you know, the sneak os are selling, oh we got

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to unite that, John Zurkas are selling let's unite, let's unite.

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We got to fight the demons, and we're like, we

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don't even have the same demonology, brah. So hopefully that

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comes down the line. So yeah, so uh, posh, I

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don't know if you're in the chat or setting up

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your computer or skinning a weasel. Jay will be a

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little late, and that's fine because we're going to introduce

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these concepts, start with some of their roots, their origins.

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Question whether or not there are previous origins that these

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are tying off of. I don't know. We'll see so, uh, posh,

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he's probably restarting his computer. His computer probably looks like

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an old lawnmower where you have to pull the string.

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So we'll check out about that. But you know, we

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can how can how can Islam save us from degeneraal? Yeah, yeah,

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well it can't, can't. Yeah jump on now, posh. So

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uh yeah, we'll get into it. I think it's I

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think dispensationalism is from my view, it's one of the

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most overlooked problems in the world. That's a big that's

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a big statement. I think it's one of the most

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overlooked paradigms. And it's so influential and everyone's confused. So

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many people are confused. It affects people who quote call

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themselves Christians, it affects non Christians view of certain policies,

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certain uh geopolitics. It's so influential, and yet it's sort

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of like this floating I don't even know, it's like

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a floating infection. Boomers especially yeah, Boomers especially, absolutely the

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boomers love it. I mean I even have like a clip.

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This is the Boomer response, I mean, this is what

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it This is basically what it looks like.

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Speaker 2: Clear.

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Speaker 5: Let me make it clear. Israel is our ally, will

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always be our ally.

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Speaker 4: They are not guilty.

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Speaker 5: Ofcide and support forever.

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Speaker 6: Even though they commit, even though I will always and Palestinians.

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Speaker 7: And will it s upon you.

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Speaker 4: I bet you didn't think you were gonna get one

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of those today, but you did know you were gonna

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get one of these.

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Speaker 2: Hello, bosh, Hello.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to the show. Long time, no see cheers, cheers

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your cigarette.

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Speaker 2: There we were already talking with a biz.

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Speaker 4: I need to start already.

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Speaker 2: I'll be talking coffee first.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Now I have to make an intro for

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j because, like, if he keeps coming back to the stream,

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I'm gonna have to make my own intro. Do you

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have any ideas if I make an intro for j

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hm hmm.

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Speaker 2: Could give it immediate here? I think like banjos and stuff. Yeah,

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I have one of those giant x x X jugs.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah yeah, or just a montage of him sighing

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and saying like all right, i'mological yeah yeah, there's you're goofy,

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just hanging up on people.

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Speaker 2: A mute bro.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, we can. We're gonna get started without Jay.

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He'll be here shortly. But before we get into it,

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is there anything you want to say generally about the

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topic alone, anything you want to say generally speaking about.

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Speaker 2: It about dispensationalism. Yeah, so it is basically a nexus

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of everything wrong with Protestantism, including as we go through

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its history early on, the differences between But I heard

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from a little birdie that poshaps look your duels.

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Speaker 4: Per I told the discord how to provoke you. Unfortunately,

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so now they know. Okay, go on, dispensationalism isism.

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Speaker 2: That's my best pearl impression. That's pretty good.

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Speaker 4: Actually, the best pearl impression you have is just talk normally,

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just without the British accent.

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Speaker 2: That stuff on molan you as was established previously. But

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if I get like ten beers in, then maybe you know, yeah,

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we can have cognitive deterioration to that point. Okay, But

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as I was saying, like, when we get to more specifics,

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more with specifics like Darby versus Newton about pre trib rapture,

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you know, and the critique of pre tribulation rapture is

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no one has ever thought this before. And Macintosh one

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of the disciples of Derby. You know, it says, well,

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it doesn't matter that even if never in history, you know,

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too or more were gathered than Jesus's name, that is

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what the word says, you know. So it's always this

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standalone interpretive schema that you can butcher into whatever the

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bloody hell you'd like, and not to mention all the

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emotional hype or the apocalypticism or the irrationalism, et cetera,

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et cetera.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the question I was going to ask you.

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Speaker 2: Or that means Republic of Serbia, are sure?

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Speaker 7: Oh?

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Speaker 4: I gotcha?

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Speaker 5: Good?

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Speaker 4: Represent what's up, Nanna? Yeah, I was going to ask

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is it just out of the blue one of these

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you know, these these views that just get constructed and

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that it borrows some crappy biblical hermeneutics, or is it

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something that's downstream from some bigger problems, like a heresy

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or something. Is there something more foundational underneath it? Or

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do you think it spawns sort of creatively, like someone

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you know, changing the blocks around.

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Speaker 2: Well, the great thing that Jay is well will be

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here is that he gets the documents.

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Speaker 4: You know, He's got the documents.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how to even research that properly

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with these types of questions. He does, so we'll have

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to ask him how much. You know, we can see

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some type of direct influence. But when you asked me,

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was this like the work the nasally and doubt, I

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told you, yeah, I told you. Racialism in this sense

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was very prevalent in the eighteenth and the nineteenth century

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and in the beginning of the twentieth. You know, the

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wholely eugenics program in the United States for people who

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are like Wiganats in America who want to create the

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category of white people need to understand that for the

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American founding fathers, the Nordics were swarthy, so the chad

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Norwegian vikings might as well have been Sudanese, so you know,

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but it was racial thinking throughout, which is completely foreign

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to the ancient world. Genetics had only started to prop

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up as a proper science and not recognizing basic patterns.

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You know, oh, this person looks like their father, their mother,

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this one like their grandfather, et cetera. You know, just

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basic pattern recognition. There was no ability to even discern

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properly how it works on a mechanical level. Obviously, you know,

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you don't get DNA until the nineteen fifties, so I'm

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not even talking about that, But that's part of part

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of the paradigm that's going to influence this reading of

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Israel as a separate thing from the Church, and Israel

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as a genetic entity, not as a spiritual religious entity.

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You know, we hear like ethno religious group. There are

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ethno religious group in the modern sense, even you know,

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back then, some you know, Zoroasteralism has certain strains that

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go that way, the Zds thing that way, the Drews

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in who are technically some type of Arabic, but you know,

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they also have this component of you can't convert into it,

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you need to be born into it. And even with Judaism,

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with all types of different sects, those who say you

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can't convert, those who say you can convert, and when

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you do, somehow ontologically or changed into a Jew. And

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obviously those who are so liberal that nothing you know matters.

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But even then those liberals are actually more in line

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with the biblical understanding of things. But that's what I'm

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The reason I'm saying all of this is that you

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don't always need to have a surptitious element.

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Speaker 8: The posh one thing I want to ask you about

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that is that that noticing the genetic aspect and trying

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to isolate that as some sort of meaningful category biblically.

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Speaker 4: That makes sense. Wouldn't that make sense that they would

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then extend that to a location to connect to that

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genetic identity. But that's not to say that the location

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is reel doesn't matter biblically, right, That just it's a

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tying together that that is unnecessary, that that's incorrect. Is

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that is that fair to say?

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Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, even with the genetic the imputation

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of modern genetic understanding, your nose grows all of a sudden.

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You're good with money.

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Speaker 4: We're trying to keep the stream up. After so people

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learn about dispensationalism.

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Speaker 2: Better to have a breakdown before Jay gets Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 4: That's true. So he walks into it's already a disaster.

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It's not his fault.

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Speaker 2: He thinks we're snubbing him. Meanwhile, we've been nuked off

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of everything. You have to write him like a handwritten letter.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay. So so there is there's the location distinction

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and then the church distinction. But the genetic extinction, uh,

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like the genetic distinction plays more to the geographic distinction,

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emerging them as opposed to the biblical it like favors

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one over the other.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the problem being that Israel, even if you take

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it like read back into it genetics, you have the

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promised Land, but it was never really very well concentrated

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there except for a very short period of time. And

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even then, you know, very quickly, I mean, let's start

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from King Saul right as the established kingdom. You know,

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we have the judges, obviously, most of them horrible for

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good reason, you know, for those who want to say, oh,

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it's a treason to want a king. Yeah, not much

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better before it, but you know, very quickly get King David,

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the problems he has, and then the redemption arc. Obviously.

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Then we get King Solomon, who builds temples to demons

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for his many wives, you know, as a means of

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appeasement and diplomatic you know, gestures, let's say, towards surrounding kingdoms.

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He builds a temple, dedicates it poorly, et cetera. I

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shouldn't get into details, I'll get lost, but you know,

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repents later on. That's why he's a saint in the church,

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you know, that's where we get Ecclesiastes and problems, you know,

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those great pieces of work are part of the redemption.

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But then we get very quickly the splitting of the kingdom.

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We get the Northern Kingdom of Israel and Southern Kingdom

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of Judah. And I explained this on this channel as well,

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Like the Northern Kingdom is wiped out. That's a out

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ten and a half tribes gone, and I mean eliminated

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by the Assyrians, because that's what the Assyrians do. If

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you surrender the empty out of the city, you know,

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spread out the population throughout the empire and then bring

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people from throughout the empire to the location. If you

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don't surrender, they make a festival, you know, just just gory,

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outrageously vile and violent means of execution and humiliation of

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the population, you know, making banners of their skins and

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you know, different piles of heads, you know, including for children,

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you know, and then use that as that's weird.

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Speaker 4: Those are the thoughts I have when I watch whatever podcast, Pasha,

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I want to just go back to one something so

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we don't lose the audience on the fundamental distinction that

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dispensationalism itself is sort of the dividing up of chronology

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of Christianity in time through sections. Correct, Yes, and because

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of that, you're the attempt is now to point to

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any given section and say that's complete or near complete,

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or yet to come. Right. Generally speaking, that's kind of

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what the gist is.

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Speaker 2: Kind of yes, because it's not over yet. But a

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dispensation is basically a prevailing paradigm in a particular time

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that's outside of dispensationalism. The time you'll hear a dispensation

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is the phrase special dispensation, which is, you know, some

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type of exemption, some type of granted right due to

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certain extraneous circumstances. But it's a certain paradigm right prevailing

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for a time. And with the dispensationalism, and we get

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all types of divisions. I don't think these are necessary

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for the purposes of this stream. You know, with ultra dispensationalism,

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hyper dispensationalism, liberal or progressive dispensationalism, et cetera. You know,

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they have different different world views. When you get the church,

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you know, traditionally it's pentecost. Others would go with commersion

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of Paul et cetera. And they have their arguments. It's unimportant.

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When Jay gets here, you know, we'll talk about they

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they believe. One of the reasons they believe that Church

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and Israel aren't comparable. Or you can't say that the

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Church is the new Israel is because they believe that

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the Church, the word itself, starts the New Testament. And

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that's just not true. Sure, you get a certain type

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of special use, but that's because now we're starting to

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write in Greek. But when you read the translations, like

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the Sebturgent, the word ecclisia is you because the word

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church means the gathering place, right or in other words,

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a congregation. Now this is a proper, proper noun, you know.

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So it's not like a place where we gather. To

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explain it to people, I say, okay, we can call

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this stream, we can call it a congress because we

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all came together. But that doesn't mean we get to

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pass laws, either on a state or a federal level

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in the United States. And no one would think that

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because it would be on its face ridiculous that, Okay,

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anytime two people gather, now there are congress and they

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get to pass laws. No same thing with the church.

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But you see this type of simplicity. As I said,

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that's why it's such a nexus of protest and problems

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with methodology in particular is that you can't really correct

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them because they only take corrections of the from the scriptures,

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which they themselves interpret and call obvious.

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Speaker 4: Darby keenan four nine and thank you he said, didn't

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Darby also split the Bible into different sections as well,

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certain verses books for the Bagels and for the Christians. Yeah,

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we're going to get into Darby. That's a good actually

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point here. You can answer that as we bring this up, Posh,

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what exactly did Darby do? We'll actually get into it.

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There's a little short section I'll play in fact for answering.

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But for those of you who don't know Darby, is

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I guess the we could say the origin. That's why

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I asked, Posh, is there something that he's leaning on

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that with certain actors or certain proponents he's relying on

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to make this work. But most people historically just kind

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of go to Darby as an arbitrary starting point. I

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wouldn't call it folly.

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Speaker 2: You could call it like you can say, a lot

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of influence from like early Anabaptists. They have that fanaticism,

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they have that that you know, idea of oh the

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apocalypse is coming, everything is imminent. You know. Don't ask

299
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a woman who rage, a man his salary and a

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dispensation dispensationalist what imminent means. So it's you can say

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that there are certain antecedents, but then so much of

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it is very peculiar to dispensationalism that I can't say

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it's some type of direct offspring. It's just that there

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is a strain of thought in certain Protestant branches that

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could influence.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we could say it's just another predictable offshoot of

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the rejecting church authority and historicity. I mean, I mean,

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when it comes down to it, right.

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Speaker 2: About with the winds of contemporary thinking.

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Speaker 4: Sure so yeah, so Darby comes before people make reference

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of the Schofield Bible and all the truthers with their

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background music, do all the videos and so on. But

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it starts with this this guy. It's a good place

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to start. Hey, Jay Dyer, welcome to the stream man.

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Speaker 5: Hey, sorry, hey, no problem.

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Speaker 4: We're just getting into it. We're introducing Darby. We were

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talking about whether or not Darby is leaning on something

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beforehand that that's more foundational, that gives him even the

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impulse to do such a thing. I guess we just

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came down to, Uh, he's just rejecting church authority and

321
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this is what it leads to. Right, Is there anything

322
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else you want to add?

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Speaker 2: So I'd like to say to Jay, I mentioned there

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is Anabaptist influence, you know, and this apocalyptic thinking with

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people like Mutska and sorry Munta and what's his name,

326
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mathis U and these type of crazy people who go

327
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But I don't think there's like a direct line, So

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correct me if i'm If I'm wrong.

329
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Speaker 5: Well, I'm I have to let you guys know that

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I went and dug.

331
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Speaker 4: Out my folder shoulder.

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Speaker 5: My actual study Bible, nice as my name emblazoned on it.

333
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So I'm married to correct all of your uh legalistic

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errors and heresies. I even wrote the five points of

335
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Calvinism at the beginning in case. I don't know why

336
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I thought I would forget them, But.

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Speaker 4: Well, dude, that's really good handwriting.

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Speaker 5: What happened I did have handwriting in the day. I

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don't know what happened.

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Speaker 4: It's like, wow, yeah, so is there is there anything

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you want to add as far as like, can we

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start with Darby or is there something more fundamental that

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he's leaning on that could be more even ancient or

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back in time that seems to be a bigger problem

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that we could even mention. Or is he kind of

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just going like, you know what, I'm just going to

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kind of invent off the cuff.

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Speaker 5: Well, just to hit on that point of rejecting, you know,

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tradition and church authority. One thing that happens is that

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the early Church, there was a period where there were

351
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there were people who were possibly premillennial and some that

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were definitely pre millennial. So some of the early Church fathers,

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the debate is that some of them were in the

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first and second century. You can debate what what exactly

355
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they meant, even by citing certain passages. But even if

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we granted that they were, by the time of the

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Second Ecumenical Council, when the when the Creed includes the

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phrase whose kingdom shall have no end that's intended in

359
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the Niceno Constablity Creed to exclude any form of killism

360
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or literal millennialism. So by the Second Council this view

361
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was basically so okay, we can't. We can't have this.

362
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So you're right than to say that the First Reformation

363
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groups that seem to revive this idea of a literal millennium,

364
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or the Anabaptists.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So can you just quickly without making it two dense,

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if you could just distinguished from my own chat the

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millennialist view or paradigm, the thing that you're referring to,

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the two of those, so they get a sense of

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it as we move forward.

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Speaker 5: So basically, you know, in the latter chapter of the

371
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Book of Revelation, there's a compassit about the millennium. When

372
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Christ sits on the throne, he will reign for a

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thousand years, and then after the thousand years we have

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this period where there's a brief allowing of Satan to

375
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be loosed again, and then you have the final Armageddon,

376
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and then the final things where you have the resurrection

377
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and thereat the Great White Throne judgment. So the pre

378
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,680
millennialists believe that Christ returns before he sets up this earthly,

379
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literal thousand year millennium. Most of them believe in Israel

380
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with an actual newly built temple, etc. And the reason

381
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,000
they think that is that they mistakenly have a hermeneutic

382
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that thinks that the promises to the Jews have never

383
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been fulfilled, and so even though the Messiah came and

384
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he was rejected by the Jews, the Jews still have

385
00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:25,759
all their Covenant promises waiting for them. And then this

386
00:27:25,839 --> 00:27:29,839
other sort of Plan B was initiated with the Church,

387
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the Gentile Church, and then at the end of the world,

388
00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:37,079
Plan A will be fulfilled in this literal millennium. That's

389
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,400
kind of the dispensationalist model that we're talking about now.

390
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,960
Nobody in the early Church was a dispensationalist. Obviously, they

391
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,720
all believed that The ones that believed in a millennium,

392
00:27:46,759 --> 00:27:49,440
the very few that did, they thought is just well,

393
00:27:49,519 --> 00:27:51,359
Christ comes back and then he sets up a thousand

394
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year kingdom. I'm not even aware of them thinking that

395
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there was a literal temple in Jerusalem that would be rebuilt.

396
00:27:57,839 --> 00:28:00,839
The few early Church pre millennials just believe that Christ

397
00:28:00,839 --> 00:28:02,839
would come up and set come back and set up

398
00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:06,559
a thousand year earthly kingdom. A rapture, there's no none

399
00:28:06,599 --> 00:28:09,480
of that. So a couple of features that these guys

400
00:28:09,519 --> 00:28:12,640
bring that's new to this discussion, by the way the

401
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,440
other position. As you said, the Church eventually adopted a

402
00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:23,160
non literal millennial position. So basically, the Church just said, no,

403
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,880
there's no thousand year rain on earth. It's a symbolic

404
00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:29,720
time frame that the Bible uses a thousand years in

405
00:28:29,759 --> 00:28:32,920
other places as well, for just a long time. Yeah,

406
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,720
and it just signifies the period in which the Church

407
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,839
is the Kingdom of God on earth and Christ reigning

408
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:44,559
through the Church. So that's it. No rapture before the tribulation. No,

409
00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:44,960
none of.

410
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,359
Speaker 4: That, gotcha. Okay, So we'll go over this and you

411
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,880
guys can stop it. We'll go point by point. If

412
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,160
this guy is messing it up or perverting it, just

413
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:54,720
let us know.

414
00:28:54,839 --> 00:28:57,599
Speaker 5: I also brought my other premillennial books I found so

415
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,519
nice nice in my dictionary pri millennial distensation.

416
00:29:02,599 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 4: Jay, Was that a study a point in time of

417
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:07,839
your study or you held the view?

418
00:29:09,319 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 5: No, I was. That's why I had a my Scofield

419
00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:13,759
study Bible. Like when I when I first started reading

420
00:29:13,759 --> 00:29:16,599
the Bible, when I was like eighteen or nineteen, I

421
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,039
went to I went to the Christian bookstore and this

422
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,920
was what I got, my score Field study.

423
00:29:22,079 --> 00:29:22,359
Speaker 9: We got.

424
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,319
Speaker 4: I got to see the script again though we got

425
00:29:24,359 --> 00:29:25,440
can you show that again.

426
00:29:26,119 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 2: What that would mean or was it like by chums

427
00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:30,039
that No.

428
00:29:30,119 --> 00:29:32,079
Speaker 5: I just kind of like, oh, I want a Bible.

429
00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:36,119
Here's a study Bible. And the thing that that appealed

430
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,160
to me was, Oh, this one deals with like end

431
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:39,400
time stuff and that's cool.

432
00:29:39,519 --> 00:29:42,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a very American thing.

433
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:43,359
Speaker 4: That it is, isn't it?

434
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 2: Yeah?

435
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,119
Speaker 4: End times. It's like it's a classic thing to appeal to.

436
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,599
By the way the title, the title is Apocalypse in

437
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,640
Space and Time here, so uh, i'd like.

438
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 2: I mentioned before we start, apocalyptic does not mean end times, apocalyptic.

439
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,839
Apocalypsis means revelation. That's why it's called the Book of

440
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,480
Revelation the Apocalypses.

441
00:30:05,079 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 5: But this book has Darby on the cover if you

442
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,559
notice there, it's got all the characters.

443
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,559
Speaker 4: He was big on profile shots. Who made the jump

444
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:21,160
then posh to that that etymological problem there between apocalypse.

445
00:30:20,559 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 2: And I can't tell you because all of these things

446
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,599
are so convoluted that you can't really go.

447
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,759
Speaker 4: Through Some truther though early truth.

448
00:30:28,759 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely, but most of them were like the Anabaptists

449
00:30:32,759 --> 00:30:37,720
if you read about them. Yeah, I watched a couple

450
00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:41,440
of videos on it in preparation for this. In one

451
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:47,720
comment said, before I thought that Anabaptists were terrorists, but

452
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,240
now I've changed my mind, and now I think they

453
00:30:50,279 --> 00:30:54,720
were Satanists and terrorists. So that's basically what happened. You know,

454
00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:57,359
they would stop running naked through the streets, you know,

455
00:30:57,519 --> 00:31:02,480
starting wars, constantly trying to like light the fuse of

456
00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:06,160
the end times because they were obsessed with this apocalypse.

457
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,599
And I personally believe that they because of the content

458
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,079
of the Book of Revelation, they started associating the term

459
00:31:14,119 --> 00:31:19,480
apocalyptic with the end times. Now, the Book of Revelation

460
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,920
isn't just about the end Times. It does contain that,

461
00:31:23,519 --> 00:31:26,440
but it's about a lot more like the Seven Churches

462
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,720
that have described you know, they were historical churches with

463
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,559
historical problems in the time of the life of Saint John.

464
00:31:35,799 --> 00:31:43,880
So it's it's this type of retroactive reading back into it.

465
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,079
But that again you see it here like if you

466
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,720
want to use an a word for the end times,

467
00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:54,039
use armageddon, you know, but that there's no Book of Armageddon,

468
00:31:54,559 --> 00:31:59,160
so that really ruins it. And again it's it's so fun.

469
00:31:59,319 --> 00:32:03,759
It's like white people like learning about demonology and ancipology.

470
00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:07,559
It's fun, it's got and.

471
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 4: It applies to a very modern take of politics because

472
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,640
you can kind of transpose the apocalyptic wrongly use of

473
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,480
the word, as you stated, view onto politics. That and

474
00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:22,519
then you start to see these people use sort of

475
00:32:22,599 --> 00:32:27,119
a similar accelerationist view where well, let's contrive the end,

476
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,799
let's just force the end of the structure, let's take

477
00:32:29,839 --> 00:32:33,599
down governments, let's let's get back to the land. Bro

478
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,400
this kind of view, and it's very Yeah, it's parallel,

479
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,200
it's not identical, but it's certainly.

480
00:32:39,839 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: Parallel what apocalypse means. It means this overall view of

481
00:32:45,319 --> 00:32:49,640
history from like a heavenly perspective. The Book of Daniel

482
00:32:50,079 --> 00:32:54,839
is apocalyptic in a lot of ways. There's also different

483
00:32:54,880 --> 00:33:01,079
types of apocalyptic literature throughout the Old Testament. So that's

484
00:33:01,079 --> 00:33:03,720
what it means. That's clear. I'm not just saying it

485
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,279
doesn't mean eny times in telling you why, it's translated

486
00:33:06,319 --> 00:33:10,319
as revelation literally means to lift up a veil in gotcha.

487
00:33:10,359 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 4: All right, Well, I'm going to play this little bullet

488
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,200
point here and we could comment, you could tell me

489
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:14,640
to stop.

490
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 10: Whatever this is followed, he says by conscience after the fall,

491
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:24,839
but before the flood. From the flood until the call

492
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,200
of Abraham what he calls civil government. This is followed

493
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:34,480
by the patriarchal period Genesis chapter twelve through Exodus nineteen,

494
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,720
in which the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and so

495
00:33:38,839 --> 00:33:43,480
on become the centerpiece of God's redemptive activity. With Moses,

496
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,160
we have a new dispensation called law. It begins with

497
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,920
the Ten Commandments, continues until.

498
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 9: The period of the Church. The Church is called the

499
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,359
Age of Grace. We are living in the Church Age.

500
00:33:56,599 --> 00:33:59,559
Speaker 10: It will continue to an indeterminate time in the future,

501
00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:01,000
which point there.

502
00:34:00,839 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 9: Will be what was called the Rapture.

503
00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:07,279
Speaker 10: The Rapture removes the Church from the world and gives

504
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:08,599
birth to then.

505
00:34:08,599 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 9: Finally, the Kingdom.

506
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 10: The Kingdom is a millennial kingdom in which Christ is

507
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,360
ruling in a political sort of way from Jerusalem over

508
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,239
the people's of the entire world.

509
00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:22,519
Speaker 4: All right, let's stop there. I just want to look

510
00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:23,960
at the picture. I mean, if he was trying to

511
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,880
sell this, that is the worst picture to sell. If

512
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:27,440
that guy was looking at me like that, trying to

513
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,320
sell this to me, that picture on the right, I'm

514
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,679
out of here. Yeah, he's giving us what do the

515
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:39,400
kids call, Yeah, yeah, a little pizzazz. He's like, honey,

516
00:34:39,559 --> 00:34:42,559
you have no idea what you're in for. Is there

517
00:34:42,599 --> 00:34:44,960
anything you want to comment on here? Because this seems

518
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,559
to be what we're saying is that, you know, you

519
00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:50,800
divide into these sections, and then obviously each section you're

520
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,440
going to look into some you're going to assign some

521
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,639
perverse interpretation anyway. So the question I have is from

522
00:34:57,639 --> 00:35:01,800
an orthodox view, let's say, are things divided at all

523
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,639
similarly and and they're just missing misreading or you just

524
00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:06,679
don't do this at all?

525
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:15,559
Speaker 2: We don't do this. I'm sure you can say how

526
00:35:16,599 --> 00:35:21,840
Satan tricks Adam and do you It's not that he,

527
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,960
you know, somehow tricked them into greed or whatever. They

528
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:32,159
were still very new, so he uses this innocence againse

529
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,440
I guess you could call it that. That's something. Yeah.

530
00:35:35,519 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 4: Well, well the reason I ask is because we're doing

531
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,079
a critique from a specific view, and you know a

532
00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:44,000
lot of people watching me a percent always say, well,

533
00:35:44,039 --> 00:35:46,360
you guys do that, or they do this. I just

534
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,840
want to cover that in advance.

535
00:35:48,159 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd like to touch on that because back when

536
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,079
I was a dispensation. So the thing that got me

537
00:35:54,119 --> 00:35:56,760
out of it was beginning to look at the way

538
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,280
that the New Testament treated the Old and then I

539
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,920
got into a covenant theology, which I think is way

540
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,840
more biblical. And this is the idea that God relates

541
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,880
to mankind historically through a series of covenants. And it's

542
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:13,280
odd that, I mean, why wouldn't the dispensed sessions want

543
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,599
to use the thing that the Bible itself says is

544
00:36:16,639 --> 00:36:19,440
how we relate to God, which is a covenant relationship.

545
00:36:20,159 --> 00:36:24,360
And in those covenant relationships the way there's kind of

546
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,880
a similar pattern or structure to all biblical covenants. A

547
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,519
lot of theologians have noted this over the years, whether

548
00:36:31,639 --> 00:36:37,519
Protestant or non Protestant, but so basically, well so to

549
00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:40,400
the comment, it's not exactly covenant theology, because what they're

550
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,559
doing is they're saying that in these dispensations, the way

551
00:36:44,559 --> 00:36:46,039
that you're saved and the way that you have a

552
00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:49,800
relationship with God changes, it's different, and that's not covenant.

553
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,480
The Covenant theology says there's a unified pattern to these covenants.

554
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:58,000
They're all essentially one covenant. Dispensationalists do not believe that

555
00:36:58,079 --> 00:37:00,719
it's all one covenant back. Many of them are dual

556
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,360
covenant believers. They believe that there's a covenant for the

557
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,920
Jews and this other covenant thing for Gentiles, which is

558
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,320
totally different from all these previous covenants in the past

559
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:15,159
with Noah or whoever. So it's a really yanky, like

560
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,960
whack type of anti covenant theology. It's a very opposite

561
00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:24,480
of what orthodox or even most Protestants would believe about

562
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:25,639
the Old Testament Covenant.

563
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there is there are similarities with viewing it,

564
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,199
you know, with the covenantal theology. But they they loathed

565
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:41,320
each other, Covenentalists and dispensationalists. As I said, like in

566
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,840
the beginning, a dispensation is a prevailing type of order

567
00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:51,440
or rules or whatever. It's almost like imposed. But there's

568
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:56,239
also no interaction, right, there's just things are playing out,

569
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,559
which again plays into different types of Protestant strains of thought.

570
00:38:03,039 --> 00:38:06,599
Protestants not big on free will and stuff is going

571
00:38:06,639 --> 00:38:10,360
to play into it. So but but you can't say

572
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,360
it's like covenant theology as far as back to our

573
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:22,480
timeline has described here, they basically just pick us, you know,

574
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,840
an event that's important and then say, oh, this is

575
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,760
like a carve out, this is a specific dispensation.

576
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,639
Speaker 4: So nine eleven could very well be if darbyted today, right.

577
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:42,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the moon. Okay, that might be more joking,

578
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:46,320
but nine to eleven would definitely be one. But as

579
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:52,159
far as these types of events, the problem isn't that

580
00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:55,320
you can't you know, just set about Okay, let's view

581
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,800
this period here in this manner. The problem is that

582
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,679
you carve it out. As they said, it sort of

583
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,480
becomes like self subsistent, like it has a saiety. And

584
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,280
the problem with that is, like throughout history, I know,

585
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,199
how do we do we define the Middle Ages? And

586
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,239
usually we would say, you know, from the fall of

587
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,320
the Western Roman Empire, you know, to either the fall

588
00:39:21,519 --> 00:39:26,960
of Constantinople or the discovery of America. You know, that's

589
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,840
the general timeline. But that does not mean that all

590
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,400
of a sudden, you know, like in strategy games, you know,

591
00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:38,000
like advanced period and all soldiers turn from like Roman

592
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,360
engineers to like knights and something. You know, things don't

593
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:47,360
change that sharply. But in dispensationalism, you do have these

594
00:39:47,559 --> 00:39:51,480
sharp edges and they view it as separate things. And

595
00:39:51,519 --> 00:39:53,599
as Jay said, convenentalists do not.

596
00:39:54,199 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's also it's very romantic looking. It's like if

597
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,599
you were to remove the Genesis and all these biblical

598
00:39:59,639 --> 00:40:02,920
references and just kept these bullet points, I wouldn't know

599
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,000
if you're looking at the chapters of a comic book

600
00:40:05,039 --> 00:40:07,280
or a romance novel or something like it could be.

601
00:40:07,559 --> 00:40:09,800
It's almost like that. That's the impulse, is to sort

602
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,079
of categorize it in this way that's more reduced, so

603
00:40:14,119 --> 00:40:18,280
that people sort of experience it like they're in this storyline,

604
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,880
like what chapter are we in? Right from that view,

605
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,239
and that seems to be kind of a problem in

606
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,039
itself to assume that you have the knowledge of what

607
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:34,079
chapter you're in, right, Jay, your mute bro on, mute.

608
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 5: Bro Every covenant that God makes with man, and by

609
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,960
the way, you'll notice to the structure of covenants is

610
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,760
that they begin with Adam, and then it moves to

611
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,960
a family with Noah, and then it moves to a

612
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:48,400
tribe with Abraham, and then it moves to the nation

613
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,920
with Moses. Then it moves to the kingly covenant with David,

614
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,480
and then we have the final covenant with the Messiah.

615
00:40:54,559 --> 00:40:57,960
So there's a logical structure to the movement of the covenants.

616
00:40:58,119 --> 00:41:03,159
There's no logical structure to this arbitrary adhocs system. And furthermore,

617
00:41:03,199 --> 00:41:07,840
each covenant in the scriptures, even the for example, a

618
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,679
Braemt covenant, it includes stipulations, so you'll have these sort

619
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,920
of statements of the vassal to the covenant people. The

620
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,440
stipulations are given, and there's also promises. So every covenant

621
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:25,599
includes promises, grace and stipulations or laws. Even with Moses,

622
00:41:26,119 --> 00:41:29,519
even with Abraham. If you look in twenty two, God

623
00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:32,400
makes the stipulation that you have to obey his statues,

624
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,440
his decrees, his commands. So they'll often try to say

625
00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:40,000
there's no law or stipulations in the Braemic Covenant. But

626
00:41:40,079 --> 00:41:42,239
in Genesis twenty two, when God repeats that there is

627
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,480
law and stipulation, there's law and stipulation in the covenant

628
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:52,239
with Adam, keep be faithful, you know, don't eat that tree,

629
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,800
et cetera. When Adam sin, he broke essentially all the

630
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,880
ten commandments, and so they fundamentally misunderstand that there's always grace,

631
00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:03,519
there's always stipulation. Even the Mosaic Covenant includes grace too,

632
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,800
So that's that right, there as a total destruction of

633
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,280
the whole presupposition of covering dissations.

634
00:42:10,559 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 4: That's interesting because I mean, it's not exactly the same,

635
00:42:13,039 --> 00:42:15,960
but it did remind me of like an Orthodox view

636
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,800
of being saved, having been saved, saved, and will be

637
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,599
saved versus I got my trans stamp save. Seems it's

638
00:42:22,639 --> 00:42:25,199
like a similar error, but just not as a big magnitude,

639
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,280
I guess, or how they're doing it here. You're saying

640
00:42:28,559 --> 00:42:31,519
a lot of these titles or things would exist in

641
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:35,159
all of these chapters in some way, so to divide them,

642
00:42:35,559 --> 00:42:39,199
and I assume they they're non existent previously as silly,

643
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,639
So I don't know how. My question is, how did

644
00:42:41,679 --> 00:42:44,039
you get away with this? Is it because it was

645
00:42:44,119 --> 00:42:47,960
just an absence of church authority in Western modern culture

646
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,599
of this time modern relatively modern, that they just didn't

647
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:52,480
get catch it.

648
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 5: I would say there's kind of a long tradition already

649
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:02,000
in the West, especially in England, of assumptions. So you know,

650
00:43:02,039 --> 00:43:04,239
from the time of Henry the eighth and the Anglican

651
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,840
Church in the UK, you've already kind of got a

652
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,239
few generations, a few centuries of these Protestant assumptions and

653
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,039
so these people are kind of like, oh, you know,

654
00:43:15,159 --> 00:43:18,039
look what we've discovered, and they're basing it on the

655
00:43:18,119 --> 00:43:20,760
fact that you know, you already had probably I think

656
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,760
a few Anglican ministers who were pretty famous prior to

657
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,800
this who were premillennialists. So I think there was a

658
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:31,320
few popular Anglican theologians before Darby and these guys who

659
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,519
were premillennial, So they were probably working with some of

660
00:43:33,559 --> 00:43:37,079
that and saying, well, he's premillennial, but he's not consistent

661
00:43:37,199 --> 00:43:40,239
enough because he's not understanding that, you know, God's got

662
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,760
these different plans. And then I think there's also a

663
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,159
geopolitical motive, which we'll get through here in a moment.

664
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

665
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,199
Speaker 11: Yeah, at the time, right, I'd like to say that

666
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:52,360
the with among the reformers, you had people who had

667
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:57,960
outright hostility towards mosaic law because they separated so much

668
00:43:58,039 --> 00:44:00,800
from you know, we are saved by grace and back

669
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:02,559
then he was saved by works.

670
00:44:02,599 --> 00:44:08,599
Speaker 2: Again, basic illiteracy in terms of understanding scripture. But I

671
00:44:08,639 --> 00:44:14,840
believe Luther said that he would punch yeah because he

672
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,000
put he demanded so much works. I don't know how

673
00:44:18,039 --> 00:44:23,039
that works with solar scripture, you know, like Moses felt

674
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:24,480
like putting all of these.

675
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,280
Speaker 5: Well, I read a lot of Luther. I had a

676
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,000
Luther phase. I read a lot of Luther. And what

677
00:44:28,039 --> 00:44:31,079
he says is that, well, what counts as scripture is

678
00:44:31,159 --> 00:44:34,199
what preaches the word of God. What preaches the word

679
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,480
of God is what preaches the Gospel of grace. So

680
00:44:36,599 --> 00:44:38,000
essentially whatever Luther thinks.

681
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,280
Speaker 4: So he wanted to punch. He wanted to punch Moses

682
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,320
for abiding by works.

683
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 2: Like demanding it.

684
00:44:46,159 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 4: Oh, demanding. That's funny because that would be a work,

685
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,519
that would be like a work to punch him like

686
00:44:50,559 --> 00:44:53,000
that would be a good deed in action from.

687
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 2: His But even if he didn't see it as a

688
00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,360
good deed, he would have to punch God in the thing. Yeah,

689
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,800
you know, like we make fun of people who are

690
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,119
like we have no pictures and all that this or that,

691
00:45:06,119 --> 00:45:09,960
that's all idolatry, you know. Okay, And I tell them, okay,

692
00:45:10,079 --> 00:45:12,280
go back to when they were building you know, the

693
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:17,079
tabernacle and the arc or later on the temple, you know,

694
00:45:17,199 --> 00:45:20,519
and go tell Moses he's an idolator, and he'll tell you,

695
00:45:20,559 --> 00:45:22,719
but God told me to do this. Well, then God

696
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,960
is an idolator. Because God doesn't preach iconoclasm or something

697
00:45:27,039 --> 00:45:32,960
like that. But it's it's these things are read retroactively

698
00:45:33,559 --> 00:45:40,000
into the Bible. It's it's the definition of Jesus, which they,

699
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,840
you know, constantly complain about everyone else is doing. And

700
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:49,119
the dispensation is, specifically, are so obsessed with saying that

701
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:54,760
any different reading of the Bible requires like a film

702
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,480
to be put over the Bible, like some interpretive schema

703
00:45:58,519 --> 00:46:03,599
has to be opposed. This is the clear teaching of scriptures.

704
00:46:03,639 --> 00:46:08,119
And as Jayson mentioned, the word of God, and I

705
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:12,679
keep arguing with Protestants on Twitter, the Word of God

706
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:17,320
in the scriptures never refers to the scriptures. It always

707
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,239
means the second person of the God, the Word of God, Jesus,

708
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,079
and especially I'm too illustrated. I mentioned the beginning of

709
00:46:25,079 --> 00:46:27,039
the Book of Jeremiah. It says, the Word of God

710
00:46:27,119 --> 00:46:31,760
places his finger on my lips. It's not unless it's

711
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:36,239
some type of origami of like papyrus with words written

712
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,480
on it in Hebrew. You know, no, it's a person.

713
00:46:41,039 --> 00:46:44,840
It's a guy. It's a guy. When it's with Abraham

714
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:49,639
and he recognizes him physically with the two angels, you know,

715
00:46:50,599 --> 00:46:54,559
it's not this ethereal disembodied voice. So they also views

716
00:46:54,639 --> 00:46:58,760
the term word of God, and then to this day

717
00:46:59,159 --> 00:47:02,440
Protestant stills still say what of God means the Bible?

718
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,800
You know, and it interpreted like, you know, faith comes

719
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,000
from hearing and hearing from the Word of God. They

720
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,519
interpret that as you know, scripture readings or something.

721
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, keep going a couple of seconds. I'm going

722
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,760
to bring up a meme that really embodies this problem

723
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:20,400
real quick.

724
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 2: Okay, no problem. Personally, I could do something I can.

725
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,559
Speaker 5: I would disagree a little bit there. I'm not trying

726
00:47:27,559 --> 00:47:29,639
to cause the dissension or anything like that. But I

727
00:47:29,679 --> 00:47:32,000
think like if you read Psalm one nineteen, which is

728
00:47:32,039 --> 00:47:34,800
the Master, right, I think it's one eighteen, there's a

729
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,519
lot of references in there to the law, and it's

730
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:40,559
identified also as word. I think there it is talking

731
00:47:40,599 --> 00:47:43,159
about the written text. So I don't see necessarily a

732
00:47:43,159 --> 00:47:46,079
problem with at times identifying the written text as the

733
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,960
Word of God in a limited sense, because, as Maximus says,

734
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,320
the content of the Word of God or excuman it's

735
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,639
content of the scriptures is the same as the content

736
00:47:55,679 --> 00:47:57,960
of anything else about divine revelation, which is just the

737
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,199
low gie. So if you understand that it's not a

738
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,400
Bible that is, technically speaking, the living person of the Word,

739
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,199
but in a limited sense you could call it the

740
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,159
law of God or the Word of God, as that

741
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:14,000
Psalm does. It's just referring to the message or the content,

742
00:48:14,079 --> 00:48:17,360
which is ultimately Christ. And that's relevant for dispensationalism because

743
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,159
there's another key hermeneutical mistake that they make, which is

744
00:48:21,199 --> 00:48:25,480
the dispensationalists think that the Old Testament is not primarily

745
00:48:25,519 --> 00:48:29,639
about Christ. This is huge because all those promises that

746
00:48:29,679 --> 00:48:33,400
they see in Genesis to Abraham, to the seed, to

747
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,519
the nation, that He will make them as the sand

748
00:48:35,519 --> 00:48:37,760
of the sea the stars of heaven, they see that

749
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,199
it still promises to literal flesh Israel. And so if

750
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,440
you don't have a crystological hermeneutic of the Old Testament,

751
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,760
you're going to fall into dispensationalism because they don't believe

752
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,519
that the Gospel was taught in the Old Testament. That's

753
00:48:50,559 --> 00:48:53,360
why we say, as Paul says in Galatians three and four,

754
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:58,880
Romans four, and Hebrews four, that the Gospel was preached

755
00:48:59,039 --> 00:49:02,519
to Abraham and the Jews in the wilderness. No dispensationalists

756
00:49:02,519 --> 00:49:04,719
can say that or believes that. So it's crucial that

757
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,679
they have this rigid, what's called only grammatical historical interpretation

758
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,760
of the Old Testament, no emphasis on Christology. They'll admit

759
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,239
a few Messianic prophecies like Psalm twenty two or whatever,

760
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,719
but they will not admit that there is a presentation

761
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,639
of the Gospel in the Old Testament. They would be

762
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,440
really confused. I think about Theophanes or the idea that

763
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,119
the Trinity is in the Old Testament. All of this

764
00:49:28,159 --> 00:49:31,559
would confuse them. So they had this unitarian idea of

765
00:49:31,639 --> 00:49:35,199
the Old Testament, which is what many other people have. Yeah.

766
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:39,519
Speaker 2: Interestallations three twenty nine specifically says those who belong to

767
00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:43,239
Christ are the seeds of Abraham and as to the promise,

768
00:49:44,039 --> 00:49:47,679
and that goes with what we were saying before. You

769
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:57,239
jam that all of this genetical, genetic, racial ethnic view. Yeah,

770
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:02,679
that is very prevalent in dispensationalism and basically unnecessary prerequisite

771
00:50:03,119 --> 00:50:07,840
for the Zionist aspects of it are a product of

772
00:50:08,079 --> 00:50:11,519
modern understanding of ethnicity and genetics.

773
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 5: And just that phrase, the Gospel was preached to Abraham

774
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,519
from Galatians three and the Gospel was preached to the

775
00:50:20,599 --> 00:50:23,960
Jews and the wilderness Hebrews four. Just that phrame. No

776
00:50:24,079 --> 00:50:27,639
dispensationalist could ever Wait, No, there's no Gospel preach during

777
00:50:27,639 --> 00:50:29,000
the era of Promise or law.

778
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it wouldn't make any sense.

779
00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:35,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wanted to show this meme because obviously from

780
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,679
this person's view who posted this, they could swap out

781
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,800
Catholic with Orthodoxy here. But it's got the Bible looking

782
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,480
at the boyfriend who's checking out church history. Well, this

783
00:50:44,559 --> 00:50:47,400
is so stupid, it's actually a cell phone. Because the

784
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,840
Catholics would be people and men, and the Church history

785
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,199
would be men, and that would require mind and interpretation

786
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,920
and views. The Bible is presented as a as a person,

787
00:50:57,039 --> 00:50:59,800
as a being, as a mind, as some sort of entity.

788
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:03,239
And that's ironically they posted this, and they don't understand

789
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,920
the problem here that from their view, that is the

790
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,360
problem that the Bible isn't a being. There is no

791
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,639
personhood of the Bible as an object with words in it,

792
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,760
and they do fundamentally kind of turn the Bible into

793
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,320
the fourth person in a weird perverted way.

794
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 2: Throw back to yesterday's debate. Yeah, I make the same

795
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,440
claim you know, critique about when they say faith saves,

796
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:36,119
they're almost like treated like an entity. Right. Yeah, there's

797
00:51:36,159 --> 00:51:41,119
like furies in like Roman mythology. You know, there are

798
00:51:41,199 --> 00:51:45,920
these spirits called furies, that female spirits, and they go

799
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:49,159
and possess people who do something wrong, you know, and

800
00:51:49,199 --> 00:51:53,920
then you become furious. Right, And apparently they see faith

801
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,639
as that. You know, you get this spirit called faith

802
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,079
and then it acts in your stead.

803
00:52:00,519 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 4: Positive.

804
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 2: Sure it's not furries, there are no female it's all degenerate,

805
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:10,559
all right.

806
00:52:10,559 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 4: I want to move I want to move along here

807
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,519
because I do want to get especially to the cultural

808
00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:17,840
aspect that Jay was pointing to that we're going to

809
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,639
get to, because it's that's really I think is really

810
00:52:20,679 --> 00:52:24,239
the impactful part of this. Like obviously the education of

811
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,599
this is important, but how it how it impacts modern

812
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:32,360
policy geopolitics, which Jay is uh specialized in. I really

813
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:33,960
want to get into that. So I want to move

814
00:52:34,039 --> 00:52:37,159
through this little overview get a grasp of it. I

815
00:52:37,159 --> 00:52:39,000
want we don't have to go too far in if

816
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,719
you guys think there's something we should cover before we

817
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,800
get into the geopolitical Uh, Jay.

818
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,039
Speaker 5: Will we be transitioning totally out of the theology stuff.

819
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,559
Speaker 4: No, if you want to cover theology but also cover

820
00:52:52,639 --> 00:52:55,519
it as we go into geopolitics, I think it's still

821
00:52:55,599 --> 00:52:59,360
relevant because a lot of these, like evangelicals, I guess,

822
00:52:59,639 --> 00:53:02,800
or maybe others, you want to include all of their

823
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,239
patterns and their and their voicing of what we should

824
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,280
do in politics and Israel and all these stances are really,

825
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,719
wouldn't you say, largely informed by this broken theology, whether

826
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:13,159
they even know.

827
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,079
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is this is completely dominated you know, the

828
00:53:16,119 --> 00:53:20,400
American evangelical mindset, which is actually now spilled over into

829
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,800
Protestant I mean a Catholic and even sometimes Orthodox mindsets.

830
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,880
They get this. They get tainted with this idea that somehow,

831
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:32,000
this a lot of this gibberish theology is somehow correct

832
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,960
and well, we still got to you know, honor, you

833
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,000
know this stuff happening in the Middle East or whatever.

834
00:53:38,079 --> 00:53:41,079
I don't want to add real quick. In Genesis seventeen,

835
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,280
for example, this is another way to easily just refute

836
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,039
this stuff. When Abraham was ninety nine years old, the

837
00:53:46,079 --> 00:53:48,639
Lord appere Abraham and said, I am God Almighty, what

838
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,960
before me? And bleep be blameless? And I will make

839
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,239
my covenant with you. So there's a promise, but there's

840
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,880
the stipulation walk before me and be blameless. So even

841
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:02,400
the Brahmic covenant is not a covenant where there are

842
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,639
no stipulations. Right. And then you know at the end

843
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,039
of Gala. Another thing that easily refuses this is at

844
00:54:09,079 --> 00:54:14,639
the very end of Galatians, Paul calls the Church the

845
00:54:14,679 --> 00:54:20,039
Israel of God in Galatians six sixteen. No dismensationists could

846
00:54:20,119 --> 00:54:23,400
understand the Church to be the Israel of God. Right,

847
00:54:23,599 --> 00:54:26,719
So again you know Jesus and the Parables, when he

848
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,639
says that the King of God will be taken from

849
00:54:28,679 --> 00:54:31,480
you and given to a nation producing the pusure of

850
00:54:31,599 --> 00:54:34,800
their nation stands for the gentile nations. So it doesn't

851
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:36,639
mean that you can't be saved, but it means that

852
00:54:36,679 --> 00:54:39,679
the national covenant with Israel is no longer going to

853
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:42,360
be mainly about Israel. It's going to be opened up

854
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:44,280
to the Gentiles. And if a Jew want part of

855
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:45,639
the covenant, they have to become a Christian.

856
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:51,119
Speaker 2: That's it. Paul says that those who you know all

857
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:55,400
the faith of Christ, they are seed of Isaac and

858
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,280
the physical I don't think who's at Israel or the

859
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:05,119
flesh would be like Ismaelites because and for those of

860
00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:08,800
you who need reminding, you know, we have Ishmael, sorry

861
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:13,960
and mixing up my language. Is Ishmael, who is the

862
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:21,199
son of Abraham through Hagar, his servant woman. And God says, no, no, no,

863
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:23,480
you have to it has to be with Sarah. You know.

864
00:55:23,599 --> 00:55:27,280
That's why he's called Isaac, which means laughter, because she

865
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,800
laughed when God said that they will have a child

866
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:37,119
in their very very advanced age. And you know, even

867
00:55:37,159 --> 00:55:40,519
though there is a blessing that is still given to

868
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:46,400
Hagar and Ishmael, and that's not Islam. By the way,

869
00:55:46,559 --> 00:55:50,480
there are people who claim that they would say, you know,

870
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,440
that's how they would connect a lot of things or

871
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,280
attempt to connect it to the Bible, right, But Saint

872
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,840
Paul himself very distinctly says that no, no, no, no, no.

873
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:06,559
The Israel is the people of Christ, not some genetic thing.

874
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,039
And as Christ themselves says, God can make children of

875
00:56:09,079 --> 00:56:12,960
Abraham other stones. He doesn't need any of this. That's

876
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:17,039
a message throughout the Bible. You can't really bribe God,

877
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:19,559
so you know, good luck.

878
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:24,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, and again you like that text. The Kingdom of

879
00:56:24,639 --> 00:56:26,639
God will be taken from you. In Matthew twenty one.

880
00:56:26,679 --> 00:56:29,880
That whole parable thank you is about the fact that

881
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:34,079
the Jews had failed at what was essentially their covenant mission,

882
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,360
which was to produce the Messiah and then share him

883
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,920
with the world. They failed because they intended to kill him,

884
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,920
but ultimately divine providence, and also by the prophecies which

885
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,199
the Jews and even the apostles of the first century

886
00:56:47,199 --> 00:56:51,079
had misunderstood until Christ reveals it to them after the resurrection.

887
00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:55,639
In Luke twenty four, they were they lost those promises

888
00:56:55,679 --> 00:57:01,559
and were divorced. This fulfills the promises in Hose, the prophecies,

889
00:57:01,599 --> 00:57:04,199
and other places in Jeremiah where it's talking about God

890
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,039
giving Israel a writ of divorce, a bill of divorce.

891
00:57:07,559 --> 00:57:11,000
Because of the culmination of their sins Matthew twenty three,

892
00:57:11,079 --> 00:57:15,960
Jesus says all of the things written in the prophets,

893
00:57:16,159 --> 00:57:19,400
the vengeance of all of those periods will come upon

894
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,519
this generation talking about his day in Matthew twenty three,

895
00:57:22,719 --> 00:57:25,760
because of their crucifixion of the Messiah. That's the culmination

896
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,079
of their sins. We have this passage, for example, in

897
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,039
Genesis where God says they fill up the measure of

898
00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:36,719
their sins. Talking in that passage about the Egyptians, here

899
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,119
we're saying, basically saying that when the Jews fill the

900
00:57:39,119 --> 00:57:42,000
measure of their sins in the death of Christ, then

901
00:57:42,159 --> 00:57:45,119
the Covenant will be opened, the bill of divorce given

902
00:57:45,159 --> 00:57:48,079
to national Israel and the marriage to the bride the Lamb.

903
00:57:48,199 --> 00:57:52,719
So God finds a bride which is not the adulterous Israel,

904
00:57:53,079 --> 00:57:55,320
it is the Church. The Church is his bride.

905
00:57:55,599 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 2: Also, the casting of the fig tree?

906
00:57:57,599 --> 00:58:02,559
Speaker 5: Is this so many exactly Some of those parables only

907
00:58:02,599 --> 00:58:04,920
makes sense in this in this context.

908
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:05,719
Speaker 2: And the last thing I'll.

909
00:58:05,559 --> 00:58:12,519
Speaker 5: Say is that, uh, the teaching of Athenacious Cyril of Alexandria.

910
00:58:12,719 --> 00:58:16,159
John Christism very clearly in his in his homilies on

911
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:23,039
Matthew twenty four other even origin, the tendency is to

912
00:58:23,079 --> 00:58:27,440
be partial preadterist. What what what's funny? A second?

913
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 2: No, No, I'm laughing because, you know, thinking of prosionist

914
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:36,760
ideas in Saint John Chris system, you know, doesn't.

915
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:39,199
Speaker 5: He's not very amenable to those ideas.

916
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:43,039
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we shall quote him on these. Yeah.

917
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,199
Speaker 5: Anyway, So partial preadism is the idea that a lot

918
00:58:49,199 --> 00:58:50,960
of what's happening in the Book of Revelation in Matthew

919
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:55,199
twenty four and twenty one is the seventy eighty destruction

920
00:58:55,239 --> 00:58:58,519
of the Temple. It doesn't mean everything is. That's called

921
00:58:58,639 --> 00:59:01,960
fool preadtism. That's a Harris that they believe that even

922
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:04,880
the Bali Resurrection has happened, which is stupid, but I

923
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:06,519
didn't want to mention really quick. There are some great

924
00:59:06,519 --> 00:59:08,400
books on this that have been around for a long time.

925
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:12,199
Kenneth Gentry has his thd dissertation called Bifore Jerusalem Fell,

926
00:59:12,239 --> 00:59:14,440
which is a really good book. All of these, by

927
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:19,320
the way, refute dispensationalism. David Chilton has a classic commentary.

928
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,599
He was almost going to become Orthodox before he died.

929
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,239
He's on his way and it's called Days of Vengeance.

930
00:59:24,239 --> 00:59:27,079
It's a chapter by chapter commentary on the Book of Revelation.

931
00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:31,480
It's really good. It's been now superseded because people in

932
00:59:31,519 --> 00:59:33,280
his circles, like I don't know if you guys know

933
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,480
Peter letheart is he's another person who's even though he's

934
00:59:36,719 --> 00:59:40,400
Anglicanish Protestant, they've been borrowing from Orthodoxy for the last

935
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,239
twenty or thirty years. That this is the Doug Wilson

936
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:47,000
Circles Lightheart just put out a new two volume commentary

937
00:59:47,039 --> 00:59:49,079
of the Book of Revelation from this fantage point. So

938
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:51,719
I haven't ready yet. I just got it. I think

939
00:59:51,719 --> 00:59:53,559
it's going to be good. There's another This is a

940
00:59:53,599 --> 00:59:57,480
Methodist guy who was anti dispensationalist, and he wrote a

941
00:59:57,519 --> 01:00:01,760
commentary on a lot of biblical apocalyptics. So it's actually

942
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:07,719
Milton Terry's Biblical apocalyptics. It's actually a good reputation of dispensationalism.

943
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:12,000
A couple more really quick ones this isn't This is

944
01:00:12,039 --> 01:00:15,840
another Protestant minister who was anti dispensationalist. He wrote a

945
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:20,320
book called The Destruction of Jerusalem, George Peter Holford. So

946
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,159
even the Protestants, ironically, after the advent of dispensationalism, even

947
01:00:24,159 --> 01:00:27,400
the Protestants were like on this, refuting it, and some

948
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,480
of their books are pretty good reputations. David Chilton has

949
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:33,440
another little book called Great Tribulation, which is good. So

950
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,360
if anybody's looking for like a thorough sort of like

951
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,400
immediate treatment. Even Bonnson has a book. I'm not you know,

952
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,960
I'm not going to recommend his theology per se, but

953
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,440
he has a good critique of this called House Divided,

954
01:00:47,519 --> 01:00:51,159
I think is what it's called. Interestingly, Yeah, even the

955
01:00:51,199 --> 01:00:52,400
Protestants have been all over this.

956
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:57,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, you talked about motivation a little bit. Well, today

957
01:00:57,559 --> 01:01:00,840
it's obvious everybody's talking points. We what we can get

958
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,320
into the motivation today of holding this view or even

959
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:08,480
a partial view of dispensationalism. But at the time, could

960
01:01:08,559 --> 01:01:12,480
we say that there's a motivation here or could we

961
01:01:12,519 --> 01:01:17,400
split motivation with just crappy uh, you know, hermeneutics and

962
01:01:17,559 --> 01:01:20,840
just adding all this interpretation like is it is? It?

963
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:21,159
Is it?

964
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 2: Like? You know?

965
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:24,159
Speaker 4: What I'm asking is how much of it is like

966
01:01:24,239 --> 01:01:28,800
sort of an innocent, ignorant impulse versus is there some

967
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,880
political motivation that can be talked about at this time?

968
01:01:33,039 --> 01:01:34,840
With the guy on the screen, the guy in the

969
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,519
right there with the weird look, is there a motivation

970
01:01:38,599 --> 01:01:39,039
at the time?

971
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 5: I would say we could point to a motivation. Who's

972
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:48,320
that guy that became orthodox? He's he's put the most

973
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:50,719
time into studying this topic. I'm trying to think that

974
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:59,039
he wrote a book on the CFR. James Pearloff has

975
01:01:59,159 --> 01:02:01,480
researched this a whole lot. He ended up converting to

976
01:02:01,559 --> 01:02:05,360
Orthodox to a couple of years ago. So he I

977
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:06,880
don't know if he's written on this or he's gonna

978
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,800
write on this, but he's the first to really talk

979
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:13,159
about kind of the timing of this in regard to

980
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,360
the nation state of Israel. Right, So the modern founding

981
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,000
of it. So the Scopfield Study Aboble comes out in

982
01:02:20,079 --> 01:02:24,519
nineteen oh nine from Oxford, right, And if you follow

983
01:02:24,559 --> 01:02:30,440
the Quigly material, we know that the Oxford Circles, Cambridge Eton,

984
01:02:30,639 --> 01:02:33,760
these are all the upper what's called Cliveden set, the Astors,

985
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:39,320
the Miliner, Fabian, Ralph Child circles. We know that they

986
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:43,760
had a plan via Balfour, the Balfour Declaration, to set

987
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:47,840
up this new nation state. It makes absolutely perfect sense

988
01:02:48,039 --> 01:02:52,280
that they would want to promote through this study Bible, right,

989
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,559
this to prep people for if it comes out in

990
01:02:56,599 --> 01:02:59,039
nineteen oh nine, right, to prep people for what a

991
01:02:59,039 --> 01:03:01,119
few years later the stabs from the nation state.

992
01:03:01,639 --> 01:03:04,039
Speaker 4: It's like the PNAC, it's like the Project for New

993
01:03:04,079 --> 01:03:07,320
American Century, but with Church like a.

994
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 5: Like a crappy study, but a crappy Pnack study by

995
01:03:10,079 --> 01:03:11,719
way right, right.

996
01:03:12,119 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 2: I mean Schofield Bible, produced originally by the Oxford University Press.

997
01:03:18,599 --> 01:03:23,400
You know, very very suspicious. Immediately, I just think of

998
01:03:23,559 --> 01:03:26,960
accents like mine, but you know, not talked that's grown

999
01:03:27,039 --> 01:03:30,400
up with, and I immediately think, oh God, something's afoot,

1000
01:03:30,679 --> 01:03:35,719
something very vile and planned for a century in advance.

1001
01:03:36,239 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 5: So you can see the first issue came out in

1002
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,599
nineteen oh nine.

1003
01:03:41,079 --> 01:03:45,159
Speaker 4: Okay, but Jay, how about when this guy was doing

1004
01:03:45,199 --> 01:03:48,480
all of his work in his closet? Is their motive

1005
01:03:48,599 --> 01:03:51,199
before that? Is there some influence there? If we go

1006
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,519
even back further, like when this is all getting sort

1007
01:03:53,559 --> 01:03:54,800
of like you know.

1008
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,679
Speaker 5: College, there could be. Yeah, Pearlof would probably be the

1009
01:03:58,679 --> 01:03:59,880
person to go to on that.

1010
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:04,719
Speaker 2: I'm personally unaware of any but as I said, you know,

1011
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,440
they have this idea that church is a New Testament thing,

1012
01:04:09,599 --> 01:04:14,679
the term itself, but that's ridiculous. The term, as I said,

1013
01:04:15,079 --> 01:04:21,360
eclicia exists in the Sibturgent Congregation of Israel is in

1014
01:04:21,559 --> 01:04:26,400
English rendered as congregation, but then church is rendered as

1015
01:04:26,679 --> 01:04:28,719
you know, uses.

1016
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 5: The phrase that ecclesia in the wilderness.

1017
01:04:31,079 --> 01:04:36,639
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so there is a linguistic difference if your

1018
01:04:36,719 --> 01:04:41,280
main resource isn't the Sibturgent. But even then you have

1019
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:46,199
to consciously translate them differently, you know, as much as

1020
01:04:46,239 --> 01:04:49,840
I don't understand why the Book of Joshua is called

1021
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,280
the Book of Joshua but Jesus is called Jesus, and

1022
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:56,239
why no one decided to align them like it would

1023
01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:00,559
be in Greek or in Servian, you know, called the

1024
01:05:00,599 --> 01:05:04,559
Book of Joshua. Can you go Susinavina, you know, son

1025
01:05:04,639 --> 01:05:10,280
of Novi and it's Jesus, but the same way. You know,

1026
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,000
then people don't make that connection because it's not that

1027
01:05:13,119 --> 01:05:16,840
obvious that Joshua and Jesus are the same name. You

1028
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:20,039
have to analyze it. So to a lay person it

1029
01:05:20,079 --> 01:05:22,760
would be, you know, it would seem like you're trying

1030
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,719
to pull something on them. Yeah.

1031
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:29,920
Speaker 5: There's an interesting section here in the Premennial Study Bible

1032
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:33,119
on the life and history of John Nelson Darby, and

1033
01:05:33,199 --> 01:05:35,639
one thing it notes is that early on, from eighteen

1034
01:05:35,679 --> 01:05:39,880
twenty seven to thirty three, Darby's Ecclesiology and Eschatology underwent

1035
01:05:40,159 --> 01:05:44,280
a reformation. He was disenchanted with the relationship of church

1036
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:47,840
and state in England. He addressed these early writings to

1037
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:51,920
the fact that the church was a heavenly institution. He

1038
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,199
then garnered around himself a bunch of like minded people

1039
01:05:55,280 --> 01:06:00,519
for Bible studies in houses without ritual and higher. So

1040
01:06:00,559 --> 01:06:04,039
it seems like from the early outset it's just church

1041
01:06:04,079 --> 01:06:07,760
and states shouldn't be together. Church is a quote heavenly thing.

1042
01:06:08,199 --> 01:06:10,960
I'm gonna start having home Bible studies.

1043
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just a rejection and a rebellion of authority,

1044
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:16,760
just like the modern era. It's just like, you know,

1045
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,960
what follows can be a bunch of garbage right in

1046
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:23,320
any direction, but seems like the foundation every time is

1047
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,400
always the first thing is like I'm going to reject authority.

1048
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:31,079
I'm going to reject hierarchy. I'm gonna reject church, tradition, authority, historicity,

1049
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:34,199
all of these things. I'm gonna make my own stuff.

1050
01:06:34,239 --> 01:06:37,079
And really he's like the modern I mean, I'm gonna

1051
01:06:37,119 --> 01:06:39,239
call people. I'm gonna call truth or these truth are

1052
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:43,480
towards Darby's now, because it's the same. It really is

1053
01:06:43,519 --> 01:06:46,559
the same thing. It's just it's just like a different take.

1054
01:06:46,719 --> 01:06:49,760
But really the impulse is just the same thing. Every time.

1055
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:51,840
I don't need a church. I have a fire pit.

1056
01:06:52,079 --> 01:06:54,119
Speaker 5: Jay. You know, who are you going.

1057
01:06:54,119 --> 01:06:56,679
Speaker 4: To tell me my fire pit doesn't do the job?

1058
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 2: Jay?

1059
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 5: A little side tidbit. You know who I was raised

1060
01:07:01,039 --> 01:07:04,199
Plymouth Brethren, another most famous person in the world.

1061
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 11: Oh really, Oh.

1062
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you get raised in these horrid, ridiculous cults

1063
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:19,400
and then you know, you end up all messed up.

1064
01:07:19,719 --> 01:07:24,639
Shocker exactly. But I wanted to mention that Derby, not

1065
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:29,639
only is it not like a simple rejection of like

1066
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:37,519
sacitoital priesthood or ecclesiastic authority adherents, or even promotion of

1067
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:42,639
such authority, he saw, as you know, basically treason and blasphemy.

1068
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:47,800
So it is like you go and kiss the hand

1069
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:51,000
of some weird bearded guy in a dress like that's

1070
01:07:51,119 --> 01:07:56,320
that's basically the level of his you know, rebellion. But

1071
01:07:56,400 --> 01:08:00,280
that also means you get full lateral and horizon into

1072
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,320
freedom to interpret the way you want it.

1073
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:06,079
Speaker 5: Here's an interesting piece of the puzzle. It might help.

1074
01:08:06,119 --> 01:08:08,400
This is the person I've never heard of. It was

1075
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:11,159
while Darby was at Trinity College that he came under

1076
01:08:11,159 --> 01:08:14,480
the influence of a theologian by the name of Professor

1077
01:08:14,599 --> 01:08:18,319
Richard Graves, who happened to be an advocate for Judaism

1078
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:22,600
and Jewish people in the British Empire. Graves believe that

1079
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:25,119
through the conversion of Israel. It would bring about the

1080
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:26,680
I guess, the end of the world. It would it

1081
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:29,199
would usher in the end of the world, and that

1082
01:08:29,319 --> 01:08:33,479
a gentile parenthesis had existed since the Jews had rejected

1083
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:36,600
the Messiah. So here's the origins. It's from this person

1084
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:41,520
called Professor Richard Graves, so I'm not familiar with him,

1085
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,960
but he would probably be the key character here.

1086
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 4: Posh did say Jay is gonna, Jay will come with

1087
01:08:48,039 --> 01:08:51,199
the folders, and you did. You came through.

1088
01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:53,520
Speaker 5: Now I want to I came with an actual Schofield

1089
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:59,920
study Bible with my name on it, with your name, Golden, Gold, Golden.

1090
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:04,479
Speaker 4: This is interesting. You said that there is even a

1091
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:09,199
connection to rejecting Christ as God as the Messiah, because

1092
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:13,840
the starting point of rejecting Christ as the Messiah basically

1093
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:17,119
necessitates of you that you could invent a new future

1094
01:09:17,319 --> 01:09:19,840
to live into that you're waiting for. So it does

1095
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:23,079
make sense that any kind of rejection of Christ would

1096
01:09:23,119 --> 01:09:26,399
allow for, like Posh said, horizontal vertebral building.

1097
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:29,199
Speaker 5: Also, remember, based on that scheme that you have there,

1098
01:09:29,239 --> 01:09:31,119
if you can be saved in different ways in the

1099
01:09:31,119 --> 01:09:34,720
Old Testament or in that period, there's no reason why

1100
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,039
you can't be saved in other ways now right?

1101
01:09:37,319 --> 01:09:37,560
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1102
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, books, sure, a.

1103
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:44,640
Speaker 5: Separate way to be saved for gentile, separate ways to

1104
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:45,439
be safe for Jesus.

1105
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:50,079
Speaker 4: Book what book did you just read out of? But

1106
01:09:50,159 --> 01:09:52,119
yeah that what was that quote? Even though you didn't

1107
01:09:52,119 --> 01:09:53,119
know who was saying it?

1108
01:09:53,159 --> 01:09:55,199
Speaker 2: What was the So.

1109
01:09:55,199 --> 01:09:58,159
Speaker 5: This is a dictionary of all these people and they're belief. Okay,

1110
01:09:58,319 --> 01:10:01,199
this is arby entry underneath it employ.

1111
01:10:01,079 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 2: So it's not just the pictures at the cover that

1112
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:09,640
are good. But I wanted to also say that the

1113
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:14,600
whole apocalypticism that they're obsessed with leads to like today,

1114
01:10:15,119 --> 01:10:18,960
if people are Jesus, come quickly, Jesus come quickly, which

1115
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:22,520
is a horrible position to hold, as the Book of

1116
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:26,319
Revelations itself says that the blood of the martyrs is

1117
01:10:26,399 --> 01:10:30,840
crying from under the altar in heaven and the only

1118
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:35,239
reason why it's not yet heeded is that God still

1119
01:10:35,279 --> 01:10:37,720
gives us time for as many of us to repent

1120
01:10:38,199 --> 01:10:43,960
as possible, So to hurry it up is not just,

1121
01:10:44,359 --> 01:10:51,079
you know, unbiblical, it's also cruel and shows the level

1122
01:10:51,119 --> 01:10:55,960
of narcissism that comes with the faith alone position, where

1123
01:10:56,079 --> 01:10:59,800
you sign you know your name on the saved, you know,

1124
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:02,840
and there you go. Now you're safe. So you're going

1125
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:06,640
to be playing a hob on a cloud and the

1126
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:07,800
others can found.

1127
01:11:09,319 --> 01:11:13,079
Speaker 5: Now. Keep in mind, so these goobers believe that they

1128
01:11:13,119 --> 01:11:17,760
can do certain geopolitical actions like trying to Originally in

1129
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,319
the eighteen thirties, the idea was they could miss be

1130
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:23,079
missionaries to Israel, convert the Jews that would bring about

1131
01:11:23,079 --> 01:11:24,640
the end of the world and return of Christ. Right,

1132
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:28,640
what does Crowley think about the Book of Revelation. He

1133
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:31,880
thinks it's a ritual book that if you do it,

1134
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,159
it brings about the end of the world. So they

1135
01:11:34,199 --> 01:11:37,920
have the same idea that you can do these actions

1136
01:11:38,119 --> 01:11:41,359
like this a technology, right, Yeah, in the end of

1137
01:11:41,399 --> 01:11:43,199
the world. Even Croley has that view.

1138
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,199
Speaker 4: That's really interesting, Jay, Not to go off topic, but

1139
01:11:46,319 --> 01:11:49,720
Crowley's I would say intimate relationship. I don't know what

1140
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:54,159
else included in that between him and Jack Parsons, who

1141
01:11:54,319 --> 01:11:58,840
basically uh not tried to materialize that particular view, but

1142
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:04,119
there was definitely some sort of ritual in his combustion experiments.

1143
01:12:03,359 --> 01:12:04,079
Speaker 5: And rocket Tree.

1144
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 4: Interesting.

1145
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:10,199
Speaker 5: The Babylon working is an end of the world working.

1146
01:12:10,359 --> 01:12:13,720
Speaker 4: See it's it's crazy how this stuff is. Like I

1147
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:15,520
wish I had my truth or music cue because it

1148
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:24,239
is really connected works every time. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah,

1149
01:12:24,279 --> 01:12:26,439
we're going to be doing another one. Hopefully Jay will

1150
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:29,199
get a date and if you need any help, uh

1151
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:32,199
finding it on a location. But yeah, I'll try to.

1152
01:12:32,359 --> 01:12:34,920
I'll just keep looking. I'm gonna keep going with this

1153
01:12:35,039 --> 01:12:38,399
and you guys, you guys can determine how much theology

1154
01:12:38,359 --> 01:12:39,920
you want to do even when we get into some

1155
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:42,279
of the modern stuff. Like I said, it's still important.

1156
01:12:43,399 --> 01:12:45,319
But if there's any more you want to do, I

1157
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:46,960
can keep going as long as you want.

1158
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 10: Here, I want to look at some of these in

1159
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:52,640
a little bit more detail before we move on. The

1160
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:57,880
millennium itself is a standard pre millennial conception, the idea

1161
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:02,159
that Christ reigns for a thousand year period of time,

1162
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:06,640
reigns from Jerusalem. All of this he shares with other

1163
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:11,039
pre millennialists who basically developed similar ideas at that time

1164
01:13:11,159 --> 01:13:16,279
in history. The millennium is immediately preceded by the Second Advent.

1165
01:13:16,399 --> 01:13:21,760
Christ comes before the millennium, hence the term pre millennialism. However,

1166
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:25,399
something unique to Darby's view of this is that the

1167
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:30,720
Church is not present all the other pre millennial eschatologies

1168
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:34,680
see Christ reigning for this thousand years through the people

1169
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,479
who are the ones advocating.

1170
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 9: This particular eschatology.

1171
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:40,680
Speaker 10: So if you're a Seventh day Adventist, he's going to

1172
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:43,439
rule through the Adventus. If you're a Jehovah's Witness, he's

1173
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:44,880
going to rule through the witnesses.

1174
01:13:45,119 --> 01:13:47,399
Speaker 9: If you're a Mormon, he's going to rule through the Mormons.

1175
01:13:47,399 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 5: You see.

1176
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 10: But Darby has a different view of a very stunning

1177
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:52,479
idea that the Church is gone.

1178
01:13:53,199 --> 01:13:55,920
Speaker 5: And the Church is in hill the promise that the

1179
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:58,159
so called unfulfilled promises to the Jews.

1180
01:13:59,359 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 4: Okay, so this.

1181
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 5: Is why Jesus. So the church is raptured. Jesus comes

1182
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:07,840
back rules in Israel for the Jews to fulfill those

1183
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:09,600
promises while the church is.

1184
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 4: So he's declaring the Church is gone. Right. Does that

1185
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:17,199
mean so the Church is no longer physical, nor is

1186
01:14:17,239 --> 01:14:21,960
it existing metaphysically in a sense, he's in heaven.

1187
01:14:22,079 --> 01:14:22,239
Speaker 2: Right.

1188
01:14:22,239 --> 01:14:25,319
Speaker 5: So, for example, at the beginning of the tribulation, if

1189
01:14:25,359 --> 01:14:28,680
you're a pre tribulation rapture person, you believe that when

1190
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:33,039
the seven year Tribulation starts, the Church has been raptured,

1191
01:14:33,119 --> 01:14:38,399
it's been taken out, and so the Antichrist comes right

1192
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:43,000
the Jews convert. The Jews then start converting everyone, and

1193
01:14:43,039 --> 01:14:47,479
then Jesus comes back, destroys Antichrist and then rules for

1194
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:51,600
a thousand years, and then there's the Great White thrown

1195
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:55,239
Judgment resurrection. So the Church is in heaven as Jesus

1196
01:14:55,319 --> 01:14:55,920
rules on earth.

1197
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:02,640
Speaker 2: Make a couple of points. So one very basic critique

1198
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:07,600
of dispensationalist in this pre millennial view is that it

1199
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:10,920
says that Christ rules for a thousand years. And again,

1200
01:15:11,079 --> 01:15:14,640
this was not an uncommon term to use for a lot,

1201
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:19,159
like a thousand years a lot to us today maybe

1202
01:15:19,239 --> 01:15:23,359
not so much, because we live in times of tremendous

1203
01:15:23,359 --> 01:15:28,479
exis of anything you can think of. But it just

1204
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:31,359
means a long time, you know. We have that even

1205
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:35,720
in Daniel that after a long time, you know, we

1206
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:39,680
will get back to like the Second Coming or something.

1207
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:45,439
But it says that after near the end of that reign,

1208
01:15:46,039 --> 01:15:48,920
because the strong man is bound, and that refers to

1209
01:15:49,159 --> 01:15:54,000
Satan that his reigns must be loosened a bit. What

1210
01:15:54,359 --> 01:15:58,600
bloody point is there in Christ coming back ruling a

1211
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:04,079
thousand years and just let Satan loose. From our perspective,

1212
01:16:04,359 --> 01:16:08,800
Christ is ruling right now. The Church is alive, you know,

1213
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:14,800
with all the problems that you know entails. But near

1214
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:19,479
the end of this long rain, the rains of Satan

1215
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:23,079
will be loosened a bit, so things will get rougher.

1216
01:16:24,399 --> 01:16:27,039
That is not to say I don't understand why people

1217
01:16:27,079 --> 01:16:29,399
are so egocentric that they think, oh, now is the

1218
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:32,000
end of the world, and they find any single tip it,

1219
01:16:32,039 --> 01:16:35,199
which is a very very Protestant way of thinking. You know,

1220
01:16:35,319 --> 01:16:38,119
oh this has happened, so now I we'll connect it somehow.

1221
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:42,880
World War two was a great place to think things

1222
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:45,880
are going to end, and we don't know. There was

1223
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:48,439
a guy who called in on this stream while I

1224
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:50,199
was on and said, do you know this is the

1225
01:16:50,199 --> 01:16:53,960
first time so many Jews are back in you know, Israel,

1226
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:57,119
or the land that is described in the Bible as

1227
01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:00,640
promise to Israel? You know, Okay, who says they stay there?

1228
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:03,640
You don't know what's going to happen, right, but they

1229
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:06,439
keep latching onto these things and use it as this,

1230
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:09,640
you know, like tarot readings or whatever.

1231
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:11,960
Speaker 4: Part she was saying is basically bagel prepping.

1232
01:17:12,119 --> 01:17:16,199
Speaker 12: Is that what you're saying, preparing the water for they

1233
01:17:17,199 --> 01:17:21,119
But you know they have this idea that and use

1234
01:17:21,119 --> 01:17:25,439
it as a techne like you know Jay described, Crowley

1235
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,399
had his own view on that, but there is no

1236
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:32,399
sense in it why Satan would be loosened a bit,

1237
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:34,680
you know, at the end of the millennial ring.

1238
01:17:36,039 --> 01:17:38,560
Speaker 2: So so that's that's a very common one you can

1239
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:41,720
all take with you and you don't need who knows

1240
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:46,399
how grand a knowledge of theology to give them that example.

1241
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:51,800
But again, like with all types of these niche Protestant schools,

1242
01:17:52,359 --> 01:17:56,520
they don't really go for logic. It's similar to Islam.

1243
01:17:56,600 --> 01:18:01,560
You know, Ahl is best. You don't need to describe anything.

1244
01:18:02,039 --> 01:18:05,600
Who needs to who needs God? Who needs to justify

1245
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:06,600
what God does?

1246
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:10,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, Also, Josha, the modern era, with the technology, you

1247
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:12,960
think it could be in our favor to get like

1248
01:18:13,239 --> 01:18:16,399
a rigid, narrow truth out there, but it actually works

1249
01:18:16,399 --> 01:18:19,079
against us that. Like you said, these people who are

1250
01:18:19,119 --> 01:18:26,119
these apocalyptisismos, apocalyptismos, they're they can piece together things and

1251
01:18:26,159 --> 01:18:28,159
find things. Oh did you see that you know they're

1252
01:18:28,159 --> 01:18:30,279
all going back to Israel. Did you see this sign?

1253
01:18:30,359 --> 01:18:32,239
Did you see the Olympics that they're just kind of

1254
01:18:32,279 --> 01:18:36,279
like constantly in this state of like fielding quick bits

1255
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:40,319
of information digital post it notes and filling up their basement,

1256
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:44,600
right and and not that they're even aware of these views,

1257
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:48,279
but they're still you know, they're actually interacting with this

1258
01:18:48,359 --> 01:18:51,039
paradigm that we're critiquing right now without knowing.

1259
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:54,199
Speaker 2: It, and another parallel and this is going to be

1260
01:18:54,239 --> 01:18:59,520
important for the geopolitical aspects of it. Another similarity with Islam.

1261
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:03,359
Islam teachers that Islam will go out into the world,

1262
01:19:03,359 --> 01:19:07,039
but it will retract like a snake, you know, between

1263
01:19:07,079 --> 01:19:09,520
the rocks. You know, it's going to become so incredibly

1264
01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:14,560
small again as it began. But it also talks about

1265
01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:17,119
oh we are strong, we will conquer everything. You know.

1266
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:22,600
So you've got both sides of the you know, dialectic,

1267
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:26,680
so you can go back and forth. Anything good that happens,

1268
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:29,039
oh you see, we are right because things are going well.

1269
01:19:29,079 --> 01:19:30,800
If things go wrong, oh you see, we are right

1270
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:34,640
because things are not going well. Likewise, with these types

1271
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:39,319
of apocalyptic thinkers, you know, anything that happens is proof

1272
01:19:39,399 --> 01:19:40,159
that you are right.

1273
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:43,239
Speaker 4: Everything is yeah, all yeah, there's.

1274
01:19:43,079 --> 01:19:46,479
Speaker 2: No way to disprove it because they've captured both sides.

1275
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:48,000
Speaker 4: It's like climate change.

1276
01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:50,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1277
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:52,279
Speaker 4: Nine, And I'm not going to read I'm going to

1278
01:19:52,319 --> 01:19:54,439
read relevant ones for those of you bob chat or

1279
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:56,720
super chat and it's not totally relevant. I will read

1280
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:58,640
it at the end. You can direct it a posh

1281
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:01,359
or myself or Jay as well, But this one seems relevant.

1282
01:20:01,399 --> 01:20:05,239
Nine ninety nine. If dispensationalist heresy is prominent in America,

1283
01:20:05,319 --> 01:20:10,239
can we find any dispensationalists to obliterate in debates like yesterday? Yeah,

1284
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:12,640
shout out to Jay and Sam. You did very well.

1285
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:15,319
Highlight by the way, Uh, they tried to pin you

1286
01:20:15,319 --> 01:20:19,359
guys against each other. Sam geniusly just accepted heresy and

1287
01:20:19,399 --> 01:20:21,800
said pray for me. I thought that was a beautiful

1288
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:24,359
moment right there. Totally deflated their their.

1289
01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:26,079
Speaker 5: Well, we knew they were going to do that, so

1290
01:20:26,119 --> 01:20:29,079
from the outset. Sam had said before the debate, he

1291
01:20:29,159 --> 01:20:30,960
was like, I'm just going to say I don't know

1292
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:35,720
who's right on Philly o'quay and energies, whether Catholic or Orthodox.

1293
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:38,199
So so I thought he was going to say that,

1294
01:20:38,279 --> 01:20:40,640
but that ended up being a better red rhetorical.

1295
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:42,920
Speaker 4: That was awesome. Yeah, that was awesome.

1296
01:20:43,159 --> 01:20:45,960
Speaker 2: And as she formerly converted to any.

1297
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:48,079
Speaker 5: I don't think he's formally converted. But he says that

1298
01:20:48,159 --> 01:20:51,319
he attends a Catholic church because Bill let him have

1299
01:20:51,359 --> 01:20:54,159
the Eucharist, but he has to go through a catechumen

1300
01:20:54,279 --> 01:20:56,840
process if he becomes Orthodox. And then he says, plus,

1301
01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:01,279
I don't know whether Orthodox are right, one are or not.

1302
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:05,039
Speaker 2: Okay, but he hasn't made a formal declaration.

1303
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:06,680
Speaker 5: That goes there.

1304
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:10,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, here tends but but but you have to

1305
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:14,960
get baptized or at least, you know, not Christ. But

1306
01:21:15,039 --> 01:21:17,960
we call it. Chris made it. Something needs to happen

1307
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:20,079
before you're formerly part of it, and as far as

1308
01:21:20,079 --> 01:21:22,439
I'm aware, he hasn't. So they were just even though

1309
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:26,199
they have different understandings of Islam, they were trying to

1310
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:33,640
impose the same type of disparacy. Oh yeah, I mean

1311
01:21:34,119 --> 01:21:38,840
excellent is one of them was mean? Yeah, they're.

1312
01:21:42,159 --> 01:21:45,159
Speaker 4: That was funny. He didn't even flinch. Okay, we'll keep

1313
01:21:45,199 --> 01:21:45,640
going here.

1314
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:50,600
Speaker 5: So you had a question there was a a is

1315
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:54,039
preterism the same as no. Preteritism is just the idea

1316
01:21:54,119 --> 01:21:58,279
that many prophecies about what people think of the end

1317
01:21:58,359 --> 01:22:01,199
Matthew twenty four, twenty one, and even much of the

1318
01:22:01,199 --> 01:22:04,560
Book Revelation that it's about the things occurring in the

1319
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:07,479
days of the people experiencing it. So, for example, John,

1320
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:09,159
if you believe in the early Day for the Book

1321
01:22:09,159 --> 01:22:11,640
of Revelation, was writing about the destruction of the Temple

1322
01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:15,039
in seventy eight. So many of those things. I don't

1323
01:22:15,079 --> 01:22:18,640
think anybody really doubts unless they're super evangelical, that some

1324
01:22:19,159 --> 01:22:21,520
aspects of Matthew twenty four and Luke twenty one have

1325
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:23,920
to be about the destruction of the Temple. There's actually

1326
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:27,479
a really good Orthodox publication on this too, called Apostacy

1327
01:22:27,479 --> 01:22:31,159
and Antichrist from Jordanville Monastery. I think it's really hard

1328
01:22:31,159 --> 01:22:32,960
to get because it's out of print, but there is

1329
01:22:33,079 --> 01:22:35,800
a YouTube version of audio of this whole thing. So

1330
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:38,079
it's only about forty pages, and all it is is

1331
01:22:38,159 --> 01:22:41,840
just collections of church fathers elder saints for the Orthodox

1332
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:46,159
Church talking about apostasy and Antichrist and end times. And

1333
01:22:46,479 --> 01:22:50,199
it notes as well that much of what we are

1334
01:22:50,199 --> 01:22:52,159
looking at in Luke twenty one. In Matthew twenty four,

1335
01:22:52,319 --> 01:22:55,479
on page twenty two is the fulfilled fulfilled. In seventy eight,

1336
01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:57,479
it says holy fathers of the Church explaining to these

1337
01:22:57,520 --> 01:23:00,159
words at this point are about the destruction of Tip

1338
01:23:00,319 --> 01:23:03,199
seventy eight eight, which is a prototype of the future

1339
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:06,800
great tribulation and into the world. So what happens here

1340
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:10,239
is that no dispensationalist believes in anything preterorist at all.

1341
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:14,079
So that's what's often called partial preterism. That's what I

1342
01:23:14,119 --> 01:23:17,880
mentioned earlier, earlier about the dating of some of the

1343
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,720
events of the Book of Revelation and when it happened.

1344
01:23:21,479 --> 01:23:24,199
There's a different that's different from pre millennialism, which is

1345
01:23:24,239 --> 01:23:27,680
about the thousand year reign and does Jesus come back

1346
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:30,960
before he sets up a thousand year early reign? Or

1347
01:23:31,159 --> 01:23:35,960
is the thousand year reign typically called amillennialism, meaning that

1348
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:38,279
there's no literal millennium, it's just the reign of the

1349
01:23:38,359 --> 01:23:39,720
Church for an indefinite amount of.

1350
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:46,079
Speaker 4: Time and jr. That means Orthodox and Catholics are partial.

1351
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:52,119
Speaker 5: Well if they dig into it. So for example, I've

1352
01:23:52,119 --> 01:23:56,199
got several Catholic commentaries in Book Revelation too, and the

1353
01:23:56,239 --> 01:23:58,279
commentaries that I have are not they do not talk

1354
01:23:58,319 --> 01:24:02,199
about pretorism. But I do have the missile, the Romancalic missile,

1355
01:24:02,199 --> 01:24:05,560
the traditional Latin mass missile, which does mention preditos stuff.

1356
01:24:05,960 --> 01:24:07,800
So it's just kind of like you got to dig

1357
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:13,119
and there's not really official positions in anybody's church on

1358
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:17,960
specifics of end time stuff. It's kind of like, well

1359
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:20,199
what it you know, like what did Christos them?

1360
01:24:20,239 --> 01:24:20,359
Speaker 2: Say?

1361
01:24:20,439 --> 01:24:24,000
Speaker 5: What did cyl say? What Athanasians say? Right, so we're

1362
01:24:24,039 --> 01:24:27,319
looking at them. There's not like a papal statement on

1363
01:24:27,399 --> 01:24:31,079
this stuff. It's just kind of like got to dig

1364
01:24:31,159 --> 01:24:31,880
to find.

1365
01:24:32,319 --> 01:24:36,479
Speaker 2: Stuff because this position was never popular in either Orthodoxy

1366
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:39,920
or Catholicism, and usually you get these statements after there's

1367
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:45,119
been some turmoil with people going for a position. But

1368
01:24:45,399 --> 01:24:48,720
I wanted to mention as far as partial printerism is concerned,

1369
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:53,279
it's a very consistent pattern in the Bible that God

1370
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:57,960
does something in a smaller sense and then it comes

1371
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:01,760
to full fulfillment later on, you know, like a sort

1372
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:06,880
of advanced payment. So we yet Israel, the old Israel.

1373
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:12,800
It is freed from slavery under Egypt and brought into

1374
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:16,960
the Promised Land, not fully by a man called Moses,

1375
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:20,359
but a man called Jesus or Joshua again in English.

1376
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:23,239
I won't complain about that too much, although it really

1377
01:25:23,279 --> 01:25:29,760
irks me. Likewise, the full promise is then fulfilled by

1378
01:25:30,319 --> 01:25:34,880
everyone who becomes part of the new Israel. The church

1379
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:39,319
is freed from slavery under sin, under Satan, the prince

1380
01:25:39,319 --> 01:25:44,880
of this world, and brought into the Kingdom of God,

1381
01:25:45,079 --> 01:25:49,920
not again by mosaic law, but by a man called Jesus.

1382
01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:54,600
So again, over and over again we get these patterns.

1383
01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:58,960
Likewise that we can see the destruction of Jerusalem as

1384
01:25:59,119 --> 01:26:03,760
a prototype, like say, for what can happen later on.

1385
01:26:04,399 --> 01:26:09,199
That does not mean and like any serious church structure.

1386
01:26:09,279 --> 01:26:11,560
Let's say, let's I don't want to use the church

1387
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:17,159
the term church willy nilly, but doesn't just look around

1388
01:26:17,279 --> 01:26:22,399
for any geopolitical event, any scientific advancement, and just well,

1389
01:26:22,479 --> 01:26:24,239
there we are chopped. Chapter seven is.

1390
01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:26,800
Speaker 4: Here we go Turn the page, Yeah, turn the comic

1391
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:27,560
book page.

1392
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:31,840
Speaker 2: The trumpet is beginning to sound, you know, yeah, totally

1393
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:34,439
like a fade in is starting.

1394
01:26:35,399 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, you set the stage right, getting your costumes.

1395
01:26:38,199 --> 01:26:40,199
Speaker 5: There's another key to this too that you can see

1396
01:26:40,239 --> 01:26:43,399
in the Orthodox have an advantage in this regard because

1397
01:26:43,399 --> 01:26:47,079
we have first, second, and third Macabees in our in

1398
01:26:47,119 --> 01:26:50,039
our Bible, and that actually helps us with this eschatology

1399
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:53,800
because a lot of the passages where Jesus talks about

1400
01:26:54,079 --> 01:26:56,840
what's like twenty one Matthew twenty four, what's called the

1401
01:26:56,840 --> 01:27:00,479
all of a discourse. Those passages refer to a domination

1402
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:04,079
of desolation, the abomination. Right, what is this? How do

1403
01:27:04,119 --> 01:27:05,560
we know what this is? Well, if we know the

1404
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:07,600
Old Testament, we know it really well because we know,

1405
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:12,520
for example, the Temple Israel was destroyed five eighty six BC. Right,

1406
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:15,720
the temple gets destroyed, gets the filed. That's the first

1407
01:27:16,119 --> 01:27:20,399
defiling or the abomination of desolation, right when the Babylonians

1408
01:27:20,399 --> 01:27:23,840
come in. Then people don't know this, but if you

1409
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:27,479
read the Maccabees, you know that there's another mirrored abomination.

1410
01:27:28,159 --> 01:27:30,880
This is the abomination of desolation of the next temple

1411
01:27:31,039 --> 01:27:34,960
that Daniel writes about. So when Daniel writes about this

1412
01:27:35,039 --> 01:27:39,039
famous abomination of desolation, this is after a five eighty

1413
01:27:39,079 --> 01:27:41,920
six BC, Right, Daniel's writing about what's going to happen

1414
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:45,920
in this future Maccabean period. We get an abomination of

1415
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:48,800
the desolation of the Maccabees. And then in third Macabees

1416
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:53,319
there's another abomination with the Egyptian ruler told me, so

1417
01:27:53,359 --> 01:27:57,239
we get another. So there's mirroring abominations of the filings

1418
01:27:57,239 --> 01:28:00,880
of the temple. Right, so if Jesus in is referring

1419
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:05,000
to another one, what would be the next The only

1420
01:28:05,159 --> 01:28:09,039
possible fulfillment would be the destruction of the temple, which

1421
01:28:09,079 --> 01:28:12,800
happens forty years after Jesus talks about that seventy eighty.

1422
01:28:13,079 --> 01:28:15,720
So we know that seventy eighty has to be one

1423
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:18,880
of these clear fulfillments of the abomination of desolation. And the

1424
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:20,880
last thing I would say on that is just that

1425
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:26,319
the future desolation, whatever that is, that's debated. Some of

1426
01:28:26,319 --> 01:28:29,960
the church fathers think that there will be a rebuilt temple,

1427
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:32,640
which would be antichrist temple, and because it would be

1428
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:35,439
the reinstitution of the sacrifices that we're done away with

1429
01:28:36,479 --> 01:28:40,239
and fulfilled in Christ's animal sacrifices, many church fathers say

1430
01:28:40,399 --> 01:28:42,359
that would be a sign of the end because that

1431
01:28:42,359 --> 01:28:46,399
would be Antichrist's temple. Some church fathers say, well, the

1432
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:50,199
final apostasy or the great apostasy that we read about

1433
01:28:50,239 --> 01:28:53,319
in Paul's letter to the Thessalonians has to be something

1434
01:28:53,359 --> 01:28:55,920
not in an actual temple, but in the church. So

1435
01:28:55,960 --> 01:28:59,560
there's a bit of a debate amongst exegetes and theologians

1436
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:02,119
church will there's as to whether the great apostasy and

1437
01:29:02,199 --> 01:29:06,039
the when it's the text repulses the man of sin

1438
01:29:06,119 --> 01:29:07,840
will stand up in the temple in the Church of

1439
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:10,760
God proclaim himself to be God. Does that mean a

1440
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:13,560
spiritual temple of the Church where a man within the

1441
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:16,880
church causes an apostasy or does it mean an actual,

1442
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:20,520
literal rebuilt temple in Israel. I tend to actually think,

1443
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:22,439
I mean, I think there will be an apostasy of

1444
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:25,520
the church whenever that is, but I tend to think

1445
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:27,840
that it is talking about a rebuilt, rebuilt temple.

1446
01:29:28,399 --> 01:29:30,960
Speaker 4: Jay, I just want to remind you that if something's debated,

1447
01:29:31,039 --> 01:29:33,680
that means there is no truth about it. So I

1448
01:29:33,800 --> 01:29:37,960
just wanted to according to Daniel, that dude, that was

1449
01:29:38,239 --> 01:29:39,079
that was really funny.

1450
01:29:39,119 --> 01:29:41,119
Speaker 5: And by the way, he knows good and well when

1451
01:29:41,159 --> 01:29:44,359
you get into the nuances of Islamic debates on the

1452
01:29:44,399 --> 01:29:47,520
attributes of Allah, he knows good and well. They debate

1453
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:49,560
this all day long, and it's not clear and simple.

1454
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:50,640
That's just a sales pit.

1455
01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:55,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, they actually had wolves filtering over whether the Quran

1456
01:29:55,760 --> 01:30:01,279
is created or uncreated. Well, and anyone as thing is wrong.

1457
01:30:02,439 --> 01:30:04,880
Speaker 5: Well, they'll call each other idolators in shirk over the

1458
01:30:05,279 --> 01:30:09,520
anthropomorphic view. So Jake and Daniel believe in anthropomorphic views,

1459
01:30:10,920 --> 01:30:14,039
and the other Muslims will say that they're committing shirk

1460
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:15,600
by doing that.

1461
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:19,439
Speaker 4: Jay, would you debate Sneako or you think it's wrong

1462
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:20,439
to punch retards?

1463
01:30:21,960 --> 01:30:24,119
Speaker 5: I don't think Ko actually will debate anyone.

1464
01:30:24,199 --> 01:30:25,399
Speaker 4: No, he won't debate anyone.

1465
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:29,479
Speaker 5: You No, I actually think.

1466
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:33,159
Speaker 4: I think he's actually gonna I think he's gonna leave Islam.

1467
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:37,000
That's my hope. Meeting him in person, I think he

1468
01:30:37,399 --> 01:30:39,840
occurs as like the little brother type where he's just

1469
01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:42,159
like wide eyed and like I want to go do

1470
01:30:42,199 --> 01:30:44,760
the truth man, like this kind of thing. I think

1471
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:47,399
he can be. I mean, I know he can be influenced.

1472
01:30:47,439 --> 01:30:49,399
So that's the good news about a young a young

1473
01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:53,640
pup like that. So maybe debating him isn't even in

1474
01:30:54,159 --> 01:30:55,000
the best process.

1475
01:30:55,520 --> 01:30:58,239
Speaker 2: Can I say there was a super child that ask

1476
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:01,399
if there was someone who is like the equivalent of

1477
01:31:02,119 --> 01:31:07,800
the dispensationalists like the Islamic debate from yesterday, And I'm

1478
01:31:07,880 --> 01:31:11,279
not sure that there is any structure you have major

1479
01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:18,439
like pro zionists and people who have similar eschatologies, et cetera.

1480
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:21,439
But I don't think there's any form of structure.

1481
01:31:21,479 --> 01:31:24,359
Speaker 5: I've never heard of a dispensational debate. I mean back

1482
01:31:24,359 --> 01:31:26,720
in the days of like Moonsen and Gentry and all that,

1483
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:29,000
and like ninety nine or like the late nineties, mid

1484
01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:31,479
to late nineties, they were doing they were doing these

1485
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:33,680
kinds of debates. But I haven't even heard of the

1486
01:31:33,760 --> 01:31:35,640
debate like that since the nineties.

1487
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:39,800
Speaker 2: And nowadays you just hear apocalypticism and pro Israel stuff,

1488
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:44,319
you know, John Hagy and crew, you know, just going

1489
01:31:44,319 --> 01:31:51,000
away whoever blisicious, who is real?

1490
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:55,600
Speaker 13: Yeah, this guy, I will and I will tell you

1491
01:31:56,399 --> 01:32:01,279
support you always support Israel forever and ever never until

1492
01:32:01,319 --> 01:32:02,880
the end, until the fire.

1493
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:07,000
Speaker 4: Like this is basically modern politics, which we'll get into.

1494
01:32:07,359 --> 01:32:07,479
Speaker 2: Uh.

1495
01:32:08,119 --> 01:32:11,079
Speaker 4: I think that's going to be actually the very interesting,

1496
01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:15,520
palatable more palatable with this. A lot of the theology

1497
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:19,119
is important, but.

1498
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:20,640
Speaker 5: Well you think of this as an evangelical thing, which

1499
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:24,079
it is, But I mean Rat Singer in his one

1500
01:32:24,119 --> 01:32:27,800
of his later books before he stepped Down, was basically

1501
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:32,039
affirming a form of dual covenant theology for the Jews.

1502
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:36,640
So this, this idea has basically spilled over into the

1503
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:37,880
Roman Callolics as well.

1504
01:32:38,399 --> 01:32:40,399
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it is driven by a

1505
01:32:40,439 --> 01:32:45,279
certain mid century event that promotes a lot of guilt.

1506
01:32:45,800 --> 01:32:51,119
So now, even though you disagree with it theologically, yeah,

1507
01:32:51,279 --> 01:32:55,600
you know, sort of feel bad about it, so you know,

1508
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:59,079
you can't really deny any of it lest you look bad.

1509
01:32:59,800 --> 01:33:02,079
And and then the only people who stand up are

1510
01:33:02,239 --> 01:33:03,039
usually crazy.

1511
01:33:04,079 --> 01:33:09,039
Speaker 4: Many religions, one covenant is the title Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger.

1512
01:33:09,560 --> 01:33:14,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, so the so called trad pope right was saying

1513
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:15,800
all kinds of crazy stuff.

1514
01:33:18,399 --> 01:33:21,119
Speaker 4: So okay, we'll just press play and see where this

1515
01:33:21,159 --> 01:33:22,680
guy takes it. I can't even tell. I don't know

1516
01:33:22,720 --> 01:33:25,319
if it matters the person who's presenting this, if he's

1517
01:33:25,359 --> 01:33:27,399
advocating or just simply described. I don't know if it

1518
01:33:27,439 --> 01:33:28,399
matters eight.

1519
01:33:28,319 --> 01:33:32,720
Speaker 10: Of Israel and Christ is actually ruling through ethnic Jewish

1520
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:37,159
people during this millennial period. I don't think anybody in

1521
01:33:37,199 --> 01:33:40,399
the history of the Church until Darby had ever actually

1522
01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:42,960
suggested that particular hypothesis.

1523
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:44,920
Speaker 9: The church is removed.

1524
01:33:44,920 --> 01:33:47,520
Speaker 10: As I say, the term of art that is used

1525
01:33:47,560 --> 01:33:49,039
is that the church is raptured.

1526
01:33:49,239 --> 01:33:51,640
Speaker 9: The term is not found in the Bible, but it's usually.

1527
01:33:51,439 --> 01:33:55,520
Speaker 10: An allusion to First Thessalonians chapter five. So the church

1528
01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:58,520
has taken out in a kind of blink of an

1529
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:02,159
eye sort of event, and that takes place before this

1530
01:34:02,359 --> 01:34:08,319
millennial era begins Old Testament prophecies that look forward to

1531
01:34:08,359 --> 01:34:11,560
a time of rich blessing, And of course the Old

1532
01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:17,079
Testament has many of these, Isaiah, Zachariah, Ezekiel, others, all

1533
01:34:17,319 --> 01:34:19,680
sort of look forward. For the most part, all of

1534
01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:22,680
the prophets have some idea of a great period of

1535
01:34:22,720 --> 01:34:23,880
blessing in the future.

1536
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:29,239
Speaker 4: Generally speak trump trump, trump, trump, Is that the is

1537
01:34:29,279 --> 01:34:31,239
that the is that one of the do you think

1538
01:34:31,279 --> 01:34:33,560
that could be smuggled in as that? Or you get

1539
01:34:33,560 --> 01:34:36,239
to choose whatever that is? Is it the eighties, I

1540
01:34:36,239 --> 01:34:37,319
mean the eighties.

1541
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:42,600
Speaker 2: Were I sent you that picture that the maga hat

1542
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:44,760
is the mock of the beast?

1543
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:47,720
Speaker 4: Right right, I'm interpreting this all wrong.

1544
01:34:49,039 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 10: Those have been identified with God's work among his people

1545
01:34:53,279 --> 01:34:57,520
in some sense or other u in unfolding history. Classical

1546
01:34:57,600 --> 01:35:00,880
Christianity would say those are describing God's blessings on the

1547
01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:02,159
world through his.

1548
01:35:02,159 --> 01:35:03,920
Speaker 9: Work in the church, that sort of thing.

1549
01:35:04,479 --> 01:35:09,640
Speaker 10: However, Darby says all of those predictions actually refer to

1550
01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:13,399
the Kingdom, not anything that God is doing through the Church.

1551
01:35:13,560 --> 01:35:18,560
So those prophecies are actually prophecies of a coming millennium.

1552
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:23,960
Immediately before the millennium is a period that Darby called

1553
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:27,000
the Great Tribulation, borrowing that term, of course from the

1554
01:35:27,000 --> 01:35:31,399
New Testament itself. This is a seven year period of time.

1555
01:35:32,439 --> 01:35:36,520
It precedes the second Coming of Christ. It is also

1556
01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:40,600
identified by Darby. Again he appears to be the first

1557
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:42,479
one to suggest this hypothesis.

1558
01:35:43,039 --> 01:35:45,279
Speaker 9: He identifies the I.

1559
01:35:45,239 --> 01:35:48,000
Speaker 4: Have a question, it might be really dumb when people

1560
01:35:48,199 --> 01:35:51,920
refer to the coming of Christ. Are they including the

1561
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:55,439
birth and manifestation of Christ as Man as the first

1562
01:35:55,600 --> 01:35:57,600
or are they talking about the resurrection as.

1563
01:35:57,439 --> 01:36:01,640
Speaker 5: The first, the second coming, the coming into That's what

1564
01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:02,319
they were talking.

1565
01:36:02,159 --> 01:36:06,520
Speaker 10: About seven year period of the Great Tribulation as the

1566
01:36:06,560 --> 01:36:11,560
seventieth Week of Daniel. Now, if you've been in the

1567
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:16,079
class or of otherwise study these things, you know, yeah, yeah.

1568
01:36:16,079 --> 01:36:17,840
Speaker 5: I know. You probably don't want me to keep interrupting.

1569
01:36:18,159 --> 01:36:20,560
Speaker 4: No, you can keep it. This is really you guys

1570
01:36:20,600 --> 01:36:22,479
are driving this basically so really.

1571
01:36:22,319 --> 01:36:25,439
Speaker 5: Important with Daniel's seventieth Week because it's a really important

1572
01:36:25,439 --> 01:36:30,239
prophecy for Christianity, because it's basically Daniel in his book

1573
01:36:30,520 --> 01:36:34,640
looks back to Jeremiah and he realizes certain things about

1574
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:36,640
what God's going to do in history. He says in

1575
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:41,560
Daniel by reading Jeremiah, and Jeremiah talked about seventy seventies

1576
01:36:41,600 --> 01:36:44,520
and dividing up times into sevens and seventies, and so

1577
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:46,600
Daniel comes up with this idea that there would be

1578
01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:50,079
a determined amount of time for the nation of Israel.

1579
01:36:50,760 --> 01:36:54,960
Now remember Daniel's writing in captivity, so he's writing as

1580
01:36:55,039 --> 01:36:58,359
if the nation will be restored, and then he predicts

1581
01:36:58,520 --> 01:37:03,279
that there's this period basically seven years time seventy, which

1582
01:37:03,319 --> 01:37:06,720
is four hundred and ninety right, the last seven years

1583
01:37:07,319 --> 01:37:10,359
is this seven year period that Daniel was talking about,

1584
01:37:10,359 --> 01:37:12,880
and he says, in this last seven years, this is

1585
01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:15,560
really important because this is a really stupid thing that

1586
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:20,720
the dispensationalists due. Daniel says that in this last week,

1587
01:37:21,079 --> 01:37:23,119
which is a week, is just seven years, it's a

1588
01:37:23,159 --> 01:37:27,640
week of years. This last seven years will include the

1589
01:37:29,359 --> 01:37:32,319
everybody says, seventy weeks are determined, and then I'll skip

1590
01:37:32,319 --> 01:37:36,279
down to the last Basically, there will be a end

1591
01:37:36,319 --> 01:37:41,840
of lawlessness, atonement for sin everlasting righteousness comes in the

1592
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:45,600
fulfilling and sealing up of visions and prophecies, which means

1593
01:37:45,600 --> 01:37:48,119
that there's no prophecies after. There's no new visions and

1594
01:37:48,159 --> 01:37:50,359
prophecies after the time of the Messiah. So we don't

1595
01:37:50,359 --> 01:37:54,000
need Mohammed and we don't need Joseph Smith and to

1596
01:37:54,119 --> 01:37:57,800
anoint the Holy One. And then he says, this will

1597
01:37:57,840 --> 01:38:03,560
be the coming of Messiah the Prince. Okay, Now, the

1598
01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:07,319
dummy dispensationalists are so stupid that they go with the

1599
01:38:07,319 --> 01:38:10,199
Masoretic text, not the subtusion, because Sebtusient makes it clear

1600
01:38:10,239 --> 01:38:13,680
that it's Messiah the Prince. The Mazoretic text says the

1601
01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:17,600
Prince to come, they say that's the Antichrist, and so

1602
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:22,760
they actually say that this last week is paused when

1603
01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:27,640
so Jesus comes, and then because the Jews rejected Christ,

1604
01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:31,960
the last seven years is paused to be the seven

1605
01:38:32,039 --> 01:38:34,680
year tribulation thousands of years into the future after the

1606
01:38:34,720 --> 01:38:37,399
time of Christ. Okay, there's nothing in the passage that

1607
01:38:37,399 --> 01:38:40,279
says anything about this. The passage actually says all of

1608
01:38:40,319 --> 01:38:43,119
these things are fulfilled when the Messiah comes. This is

1609
01:38:43,159 --> 01:38:48,000
Daniel nine twenty four to twenty seven, right excuse me, right,

1610
01:38:48,039 --> 01:38:50,279
and then it even says that the Messiah will be

1611
01:38:50,399 --> 01:38:54,279
cut off in verse twenty six, and this would be

1612
01:38:54,319 --> 01:38:56,279
a fulfillment of the Jesillation.

1613
01:38:56,439 --> 01:38:59,039
Speaker 4: So we teach they so they introduced as sort of

1614
01:38:59,159 --> 01:39:02,199
Nintendo arbitrary pause in their game.

1615
01:39:03,399 --> 01:39:06,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, because though it's identified in the very passes that

1616
01:39:06,319 --> 01:39:09,399
it's the Messiah, the Prince in especially for the subtuagen,

1617
01:39:09,880 --> 01:39:13,039
then the next verse says that after this time the

1618
01:39:13,119 --> 01:39:16,199
anointed One will be put to death. The death of

1619
01:39:16,239 --> 01:39:20,000
the Messiah is so clear, right, idiots destroy one of

1620
01:39:20,039 --> 01:39:22,880
the strongest proofs of Christianity and the prediction of the

1621
01:39:22,920 --> 01:39:26,520
Messiah being put to death. These idiots destroy it, make

1622
01:39:26,560 --> 01:39:29,000
it something two thousand years, three thousand years in the future.

1623
01:39:29,319 --> 01:39:31,760
Speaker 2: And by the way, the Jews were very aware of

1624
01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:34,960
this timeline in the time of Christ. And if that's

1625
01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:38,039
why people were already you know, if you claim they

1626
01:39:38,119 --> 01:39:41,960
start asking you questions, you know, they don't just hear what, well,

1627
01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:45,479
that's ridiculous. No, No, they were very aware of the

1628
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:48,720
timeline with the seventy weeks of years, you know, that's

1629
01:39:48,840 --> 01:39:52,119
four hundred and ninety years years and numbers in general,

1630
01:39:52,159 --> 01:39:56,279
and the ancient world were rounded up massively. You know,

1631
01:39:57,000 --> 01:40:00,920
it's simply how things work. We are very methodical nowadays,

1632
01:40:01,079 --> 01:40:04,760
in large part due to the availability of writing and material,

1633
01:40:04,920 --> 01:40:08,600
both as an ink and as in a medium of writing.

1634
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:13,760
So we are much more I want to say anal

1635
01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:15,039
about it, but yeah.

1636
01:40:14,960 --> 01:40:18,640
Speaker 5: We mean Rabbinic Jews has Saidic Jews they actually pronounce

1637
01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:21,399
a curse on gentiles that read this passage, because this

1638
01:40:21,439 --> 01:40:26,079
passage is it's so difficult for them that they'll like,

1639
01:40:26,359 --> 01:40:26,680
they do.

1640
01:40:26,680 --> 01:40:29,039
Speaker 14: A curse on the gentiles that they just spit they

1641
01:40:29,079 --> 01:40:31,640
just as randomly like drinks.

1642
01:40:31,680 --> 01:40:33,159
Speaker 5: I think they do it on puium. I can't remember that.

1643
01:40:33,159 --> 01:40:35,079
They're like, they'll drink wine and spit at the Jews

1644
01:40:35,079 --> 01:40:35,399
that reads.

1645
01:40:35,680 --> 01:40:37,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, they have super they have like they have super

1646
01:40:37,920 --> 01:40:40,439
soakers and they just spray people.

1647
01:40:40,760 --> 01:40:42,840
Speaker 2: Who is it Pentecostal?

1648
01:40:43,399 --> 01:40:45,960
Speaker 4: Wait okay, wait a second. Are you saying that the

1649
01:40:46,039 --> 01:40:50,960
dispensationalist view is partial to a it just happens to

1650
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:55,760
be partial to a bagel view that the best possible

1651
01:40:56,039 --> 01:40:58,880
thing you can appeal to as far as a prophecy

1652
01:40:59,000 --> 01:41:04,520
of Jesus as God is rejected, which is weird if

1653
01:41:04,560 --> 01:41:06,880
you're taking a Christian view, right, So, you'd be like,

1654
01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:10,199
why would you pick the one thing that really sets

1655
01:41:10,239 --> 01:41:12,800
people into a into a spurgy frenzy.

1656
01:41:12,880 --> 01:41:15,399
Speaker 5: Right, So, and on top of this, because it's such

1657
01:41:15,439 --> 01:41:18,560
a damaging, dangerous passage, I also think that for they're

1658
01:41:18,600 --> 01:41:20,479
not actually allowed to read this for a long time

1659
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:23,279
unless they're older Jews, and there's some rule about not

1660
01:41:23,319 --> 01:41:28,279
being able to read it until they're so uh or

1661
01:41:28,359 --> 01:41:30,000
or or maybe they're not allowed to talk on it

1662
01:41:30,000 --> 01:41:31,800
in the synagogue. I don't know. There's there's some weird

1663
01:41:31,840 --> 01:41:34,800
structures on it. But what's weird about that is the

1664
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:39,800
passage is so clear and it even describes the death

1665
01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:43,399
of the anointed one that in the Talmud they have

1666
01:41:43,439 --> 01:41:46,840
a position that there's two messiahs. Right, so you'll hear

1667
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:48,720
if you hear if you're Jews. The day they'll say

1668
01:41:48,960 --> 01:41:51,960
there's no passage that talks about the death of the Messiah.

1669
01:41:52,399 --> 01:41:52,600
Speaker 2: Right.

1670
01:41:52,920 --> 01:41:56,960
Speaker 5: However, they're being disingenuous because the Talmud actually says there's

1671
01:41:56,960 --> 01:42:00,000
two Messiahs, one of whom dies. They believe in Massa

1672
01:42:00,000 --> 01:42:03,000
I have been Joseph and Messiah David and one of

1673
01:42:03,039 --> 01:42:06,199
them dies, so they even believe the Messiah dies. But

1674
01:42:06,199 --> 01:42:09,239
to get around these passages they've invented to different Messiahs.

1675
01:42:09,800 --> 01:42:14,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like with this position of elongating that last week,

1676
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:21,640
you with all Protestantism, you tie yourself to a certain

1677
01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:27,439
conclusion and then you reverse engineer any interpretation, including you know,

1678
01:42:28,119 --> 01:42:33,399
an uneasy relationship for example of Luther with the Epistle

1679
01:42:33,479 --> 01:42:38,359
of James, because you obviously you need to come to

1680
01:42:38,399 --> 01:42:41,439
this conclusion. So if anything is a bother to it,

1681
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:44,560
you're going to reject it or at least discredit it.

1682
01:42:45,439 --> 01:42:49,119
And it's a very commonplace thing. So there's no way

1683
01:42:49,159 --> 01:42:51,680
this is saying what it's saying. It has to say

1684
01:42:52,439 --> 01:42:56,399
something that is in line with my expectation. And then

1685
01:42:56,680 --> 01:43:00,479
we have to listen to these exact same people tell

1686
01:43:00,560 --> 01:43:05,600
us how we apply different interpretive schemas in some self

1687
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:10,840
serving manner. And it's again, there's no such thing as

1688
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:17,560
plain reading. But if we just read it, it's pretty clear. Now.

1689
01:43:18,399 --> 01:43:20,720
As I said, there's no such thing as plain reading.

1690
01:43:20,760 --> 01:43:24,479
But it works with everything else. It works with Isaiah,

1691
01:43:24,520 --> 01:43:27,279
it works with the psalms we do.

1692
01:43:27,399 --> 01:43:28,199
Speaker 5: It's a great point.

1693
01:43:28,279 --> 01:43:31,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it locks with everything else.

1694
01:43:31,520 --> 01:43:35,680
Speaker 5: They believe in the simple, clear perspecuity of scripture, simple

1695
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:38,520
meaning However, when you get to Daniel nine, oh no, no, no,

1696
01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:41,640
there's this like pause, and it's two thousand years later,

1697
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:42,479
and it's just crazy.

1698
01:43:42,760 --> 01:43:47,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, all of a sudden, perspecuity is gone. And then

1699
01:43:47,439 --> 01:43:51,840
they established some type of hierarchy of what is clear

1700
01:43:52,199 --> 01:43:54,800
isn't what is less clear, and then the more clear

1701
01:43:54,880 --> 01:43:58,840
interprets the less clear. And usually that means, well, what

1702
01:43:58,920 --> 01:44:01,960
agrees with me is more clear, but disagrees with me.

1703
01:44:02,119 --> 01:44:06,319
Should color be colored by what agrees with me?

1704
01:44:06,640 --> 01:44:14,840
Speaker 4: That sounds sounds very Islamicism.

1705
01:44:11,680 --> 01:44:15,479
Speaker 5: And Judaism all have the same like simple meaning and

1706
01:44:15,600 --> 01:44:16,279
book worship.

1707
01:44:17,119 --> 01:44:20,840
Speaker 2: Speaking of not talking about things in public. In the

1708
01:44:20,920 --> 01:44:24,279
last couple of years, there's been a complete collapse in

1709
01:44:24,640 --> 01:44:30,159
the Islamic argument of the miraculous perfect preservation of the Qur'an.

1710
01:44:31,279 --> 01:44:33,439
I don't know how anyone ever got to that point,

1711
01:44:33,479 --> 01:44:37,439
considering what the hadiths say. You know why it was

1712
01:44:37,520 --> 01:44:40,199
codified in the first place was because a lot of

1713
01:44:40,239 --> 01:44:44,439
it was lost with all the reciters. Quran means the recitations,

1714
01:44:44,840 --> 01:44:47,600
you know, all these reciters dying in battle or of

1715
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:51,760
old age or whatever means of death. So they decide, okay,

1716
01:44:51,920 --> 01:44:54,000
we need to write it down everything we still have.

1717
01:44:54,079 --> 01:44:56,560
We need to write it down and keep it right.

1718
01:44:56,600 --> 01:45:00,079
And that was replete with problems. But a couple of

1719
01:45:00,119 --> 01:45:02,880
years ago, Sneaker's mentor, Mohammed jar.

1720
01:45:02,880 --> 01:45:06,159
Speaker 5: He just had a guy on this that it's not

1721
01:45:06,239 --> 01:45:07,039
just a guy.

1722
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:12,359
Speaker 2: That's Yasakadi, his father wrote. His father wrote a book

1723
01:45:12,680 --> 01:45:17,680
on the sciences of the Qur'an. So he's not just

1724
01:45:18,039 --> 01:45:21,640
you know, someone who's well informed. He has a pedigree

1725
01:45:21,680 --> 01:45:25,239
even with these types of things. And there are multiple

1726
01:45:26,720 --> 01:45:31,600
you know, not interviews, but like lectures or things of

1727
01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:36,640
him where he to how should we say, like an

1728
01:45:36,720 --> 01:45:42,560
uneducated audience like plebs. He says, no perfect preservation, you know,

1729
01:45:42,680 --> 01:45:46,800
every dot and no difference. But then when he talks

1730
01:45:46,840 --> 01:45:48,960
to as they call the people of knowledge, which is

1731
01:45:48,960 --> 01:45:52,560
to say, the scholars, it's not that clear. And when

1732
01:45:52,920 --> 01:45:57,279
Job had him on, his Job kept pushing it until

1733
01:45:57,520 --> 01:46:03,560
he said, these things should not be discussed among you know,

1734
01:46:04,039 --> 01:46:09,319
before the masses, Yachi, you shouldn't talk about this. But

1735
01:46:09,880 --> 01:46:12,600
it was just common as filthy commoners here. This is

1736
01:46:12,720 --> 01:46:16,680
something for us highly educated people, which is a very

1737
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:20,399
very common thing with mystic religions. You know, where you

1738
01:46:20,479 --> 01:46:25,880
get this progressive revelation, so to speak, where you get

1739
01:46:25,920 --> 01:46:28,239
more and more knowledge. This is what you will get,

1740
01:46:28,399 --> 01:46:32,640
as Jay said, you will get it with Islam and Judaism,

1741
01:46:32,760 --> 01:46:38,680
especially with problem parts, and then Protestantism. I don't know,

1742
01:46:39,159 --> 01:46:41,880
they don't do that. They just sort of wing everything,

1743
01:46:42,159 --> 01:46:46,079
and I don't know. It's sort of like you never

1744
01:46:46,199 --> 01:46:49,800
let them know your next move if you can't really predict.

1745
01:46:50,399 --> 01:46:54,000
Speaker 5: That's providential that you said that, Parst, because literally I

1746
01:46:54,039 --> 01:46:56,600
had just watched that video two nights ago. I'd never

1747
01:46:56,680 --> 01:46:59,039
seen it in this interview, and I just happened upon

1748
01:46:59,399 --> 01:47:03,079
this interview popped up in my my feed. It's called

1749
01:47:05,800 --> 01:47:09,279
that there's a guy who captured it and kind of

1750
01:47:09,279 --> 01:47:12,520
made a summer summation videos. He's a guy called the

1751
01:47:12,520 --> 01:47:15,439
Friendly ex Muslim. And if you're looking for this video,

1752
01:47:15,479 --> 01:47:18,039
it's called the interview muhammedda Jab tried to hide from

1753
01:47:18,039 --> 01:47:21,439
the World, and it's it's like a twenty minute version

1754
01:47:21,560 --> 01:47:25,800
of what partially talking about. I highly recommend that because

1755
01:47:25,840 --> 01:47:28,600
you'll see like Muhammad Jabs starting to like freak out.

1756
01:47:28,640 --> 01:47:30,119
That's what this guy's saying, right.

1757
01:47:30,079 --> 01:47:32,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, things things. That was a couple of years ago.

1758
01:47:32,920 --> 01:47:35,880
I know David would had like a stream to commemorate

1759
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:38,920
like four years since the interview, because then they kept

1760
01:47:39,119 --> 01:47:46,600
kept spamming, you know, striking for what copyright copyright ringement,

1761
01:47:47,600 --> 01:47:50,520
people who would clip and repost it yas Caldi did

1762
01:47:50,520 --> 01:47:55,439
that and YouTube obviously obliged, so it's not as easy

1763
01:47:55,479 --> 01:47:59,720
to find, but it did happen. And basically everyone who

1764
01:47:59,800 --> 01:48:05,119
is dealing with anti Islamic polemics state that video, so

1765
01:48:05,199 --> 01:48:07,760
there's no way to delete it. It's just difficult to

1766
01:48:07,880 --> 01:48:11,199
post and people who host it somewhere else. You know,

1767
01:48:11,680 --> 01:48:15,119
it's a very important thing to find, but that has

1768
01:48:15,159 --> 01:48:18,199
been destroyed. Another thing that's been really destroyed as the

1769
01:48:18,199 --> 01:48:24,479
scientific miracles, etc. So it's a religion collapse. They you know,

1770
01:48:25,319 --> 01:48:28,800
strike their chests and pretend like, oh we are strongly

1771
01:48:29,479 --> 01:48:34,000
bit yeh. But no, it's really going poorly for them.

1772
01:48:34,600 --> 01:48:37,159
As I said Albania. We have Albanians in the chat

1773
01:48:38,079 --> 01:48:39,359
recently in.

1774
01:48:39,279 --> 01:48:40,800
Speaker 4: The Terrible Terrible People.

1775
01:48:41,760 --> 01:48:42,960
Speaker 2: Well I wouldn't call them people.

1776
01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:48,520
Speaker 4: Okay, listen one interruption here, Jay, I want to get

1777
01:48:48,520 --> 01:48:51,039
a sense of you and Posha's timeline. I do want

1778
01:48:51,079 --> 01:48:55,199
to get into geopolitics because it's very accessible to my audience.

1779
01:48:55,960 --> 01:48:58,960
This is all important, but dense. I just want to

1780
01:48:58,960 --> 01:49:00,279
get a sense of your time.

1781
01:49:04,119 --> 01:49:05,159
Speaker 2: In the sense of the screen.

1782
01:49:05,439 --> 01:49:07,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, how much time do you have to because I

1783
01:49:07,399 --> 01:49:11,239
want to you guys have to serve Ja especially okay

1784
01:49:11,399 --> 01:49:14,319
you have beer Jay, especially because I want you here

1785
01:49:14,399 --> 01:49:18,520
to go over the modern implications what we're dealing with

1786
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:21,279
now in our very cryptic way that we have to

1787
01:49:21,279 --> 01:49:24,640
do it. Probably. I just want to get a sense

1788
01:49:24,840 --> 01:49:27,279
you you can drive when you want to go into that,

1789
01:49:27,279 --> 01:49:30,760
That's what I'm saying. But I just want to give

1790
01:49:30,840 --> 01:49:32,159
enough time for it.

1791
01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:35,560
Speaker 2: So that Yeah, if you're limited in time, Yeah, you

1792
01:49:35,640 --> 01:49:37,720
are the expert for the geopolitical aspect.

1793
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:39,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I don't want to miss out on that part.

1794
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:42,680
Speaker 5: So well, I wouldn't even say an expert. I mean,

1795
01:49:42,720 --> 01:49:44,840
I just I mean, there's not a whole lot really,

1796
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:47,920
that's that mysterious thing. It's pretty kind of easy to

1797
01:49:48,159 --> 01:49:51,319
follow and figure out basically, just you know, a lot

1798
01:49:51,319 --> 01:49:56,800
of evangelical uh prophecy writers for many, many years, probably

1799
01:49:56,800 --> 01:49:59,600
going back to the eighties and nineties, and they've had

1800
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:05,880
a very close relationship with Apak. We have certain figures

1801
01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:09,520
who have written who are Jewish writers, who've written famous

1802
01:50:09,640 --> 01:50:17,000
prophecy books who work closely with foreign nations, shall we say,

1803
01:50:17,720 --> 01:50:21,760
And those are what they typically do in those prophecy books,

1804
01:50:21,760 --> 01:50:24,680
even the fiction books that are very popular, they will

1805
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:31,000
promote the enemies of America and Jesus is almost always Russians,

1806
01:50:31,600 --> 01:50:35,199
Chinese and they will usually just come yeah, they loosely

1807
01:50:36,079 --> 01:50:39,800
copy paste them onto Gog and may good. Right, there's

1808
01:50:39,840 --> 01:50:43,439
this rabbinic tradition. I think that there's theories about where

1809
01:50:43,479 --> 01:50:46,239
the people groups from the Table of Nations in Genesis

1810
01:50:46,239 --> 01:50:49,199
ten went out into different regions of the world, and

1811
01:50:49,279 --> 01:50:52,199
so Gog and Magog and some of the rabbinic ideas

1812
01:50:52,199 --> 01:50:57,159
are you know, Russians and people like that. Anyway, it's

1813
01:50:57,199 --> 01:50:59,520
a lot of speculation in terms of that stuff, but

1814
01:51:00,079 --> 01:51:05,920
it's utilized in terms of geopolitics to push just anything

1815
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:12,880
that's against you know, American, Israeli, Atlantis. Okay, interests must

1816
01:51:12,960 --> 01:51:16,800
be one of these predicted prophetic in times that is

1817
01:51:16,840 --> 01:51:17,279
that some point?

1818
01:51:17,960 --> 01:51:22,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Jay, do you want Bosh real quick before

1819
01:51:22,319 --> 01:51:25,239
we get into geopolitics. Do you want me to continue

1820
01:51:25,319 --> 01:51:29,920
and do any more? Uh more theological It's still interesting

1821
01:51:29,920 --> 01:51:32,079
to me. I like it, the Chat likes it. I

1822
01:51:32,159 --> 01:51:34,760
just want to want to count for your time, Jay

1823
01:51:35,399 --> 01:51:37,840
if okay, okay, we'll keep going.

1824
01:51:39,359 --> 01:51:39,800
Speaker 2: Right back.

1825
01:51:40,159 --> 01:51:43,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, Posh amazingly doesn't have a catheter.

1826
01:51:43,520 --> 01:51:46,199
Speaker 5: Actually, I want to go to the restaurant. I'm actually

1827
01:51:46,199 --> 01:51:48,119
wearing a I don't want to go.

1828
01:51:48,640 --> 01:51:52,600
Speaker 4: Gold could go change the diaper. Well, and this is

1829
01:51:52,600 --> 01:51:55,119
a good time to look at some super chats, so

1830
01:51:55,119 --> 01:51:57,520
I don't miss them out. Okay, why did the Muslims

1831
01:51:57,520 --> 01:52:02,119
say that slavery argument like the atheist Well, because FB,

1832
01:52:02,520 --> 01:52:05,359
if you're talking about Daniel or the other dude, they

1833
01:52:05,359 --> 01:52:09,600
don't really have a standard because you know, if you

1834
01:52:09,600 --> 01:52:13,880
saw their argument was not their argument was conceding, even

1835
01:52:13,920 --> 01:52:17,359
with the pedo thing. They were like, well, you guys

1836
01:52:17,359 --> 01:52:19,039
hold this too. That's why they try to pin j

1837
01:52:19,279 --> 01:52:26,359
against Sam by appealing to to Aquinas. And so I

1838
01:52:26,399 --> 01:52:32,479
think I think the Christian and the Muslim have to

1839
01:52:32,640 --> 01:52:37,439
would have to have a debate about that particular item itself, slavery,

1840
01:52:37,520 --> 01:52:41,279
because Christianity like what you call slavery as far as

1841
01:52:41,359 --> 01:52:46,520
like capturing, like for instance, slavery. Let's say there's a

1842
01:52:46,560 --> 01:52:50,960
woman in the wilderness and in the time of of

1843
01:52:54,680 --> 01:52:57,680
like in a time of a horrid circumstance, you find

1844
01:52:57,720 --> 01:53:01,359
a woman in the woods, now, well, a woman. From

1845
01:53:01,359 --> 01:53:04,760
a Christian view, you can you could actually use force

1846
01:53:05,439 --> 01:53:07,680
to pick up the woman, put her in a carriage,

1847
01:53:07,720 --> 01:53:10,520
and remove her from the wilderness. Now would a monern

1848
01:53:10,640 --> 01:53:15,439
person say that slavery acting against autonomy will? Sure, But

1849
01:53:15,800 --> 01:53:19,399
from the Christian view, you're not arguing from you know,

1850
01:53:19,520 --> 01:53:23,840
bodily autonomy and consent at this point, you're arguing from

1851
01:53:23,840 --> 01:53:27,159
a larger position. So this it really brings up the

1852
01:53:27,239 --> 01:53:30,720
question of like, what is even considered the word slavery. Obviously,

1853
01:53:30,720 --> 01:53:35,720
the atheist reddit to her always use slavery incorrectly. They

1854
01:53:35,720 --> 01:53:38,399
always use this modern term of a trans and latic

1855
01:53:38,520 --> 01:53:41,560
slave concept, and then they transpose it into a biblical

1856
01:53:41,680 --> 01:53:45,680
historical context, which is inaccurate. But even if you granted that,

1857
01:53:46,039 --> 01:53:49,640
the atheist still has no justification for why any of

1858
01:53:49,680 --> 01:53:52,800
this is wrong. You know, so they're not even doing

1859
01:53:52,840 --> 01:53:56,119
an internal critique, which Jay and myself and many others.

1860
01:53:56,560 --> 01:53:59,199
I don't know what it's going to take to train

1861
01:53:59,399 --> 01:54:04,840
our oppositeition in this this distinction called an internal critique.

1862
01:54:04,880 --> 01:54:08,159
I don't know what's going on with their minds. I

1863
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:10,000
don't know how to do. I wish they would do

1864
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:12,119
it because it's actually more fun to do to debate

1865
01:54:12,159 --> 01:54:15,560
that way. So Jay, you can answer this because you

1866
01:54:15,600 --> 01:54:18,680
were in the debate itself. Why did the Muslim say

1867
01:54:18,680 --> 01:54:21,600
the slavery argument like the atheists, Well, because that's their

1868
01:54:21,680 --> 01:54:23,279
their foundation is just as absent.

1869
01:54:24,439 --> 01:54:26,920
Speaker 5: Well, what they tended to have tended to do in

1870
01:54:26,960 --> 01:54:33,720
their approach is utilize anything that an unbelieving higher critical

1871
01:54:33,760 --> 01:54:37,000
scholar or an atheist uses, and so they just kind

1872
01:54:37,039 --> 01:54:39,520
of latch onto any kind of argumentation that they find

1873
01:54:39,520 --> 01:54:42,199
out there. It doesn't matter the source. And this isn't

1874
01:54:42,239 --> 01:54:45,560
really I think a weak a weakness of theirs, because

1875
01:54:46,439 --> 01:54:49,399
for example, when they when they appeal to all these atheists,

1876
01:54:49,439 --> 01:54:52,199
scholars and academics, they don't mention the fact that none

1877
01:54:52,199 --> 01:54:54,600
of those atheist scholars and academics believe in the Qur'an.

1878
01:54:55,000 --> 01:54:58,840
So it's like they only will utilize this argument to attack,

1879
01:54:59,000 --> 01:55:03,479
you know, Christianity. They totally ignore all the same scholars

1880
01:55:03,520 --> 01:55:06,319
talking about how silly the chronic narratives and how deeds are.

1881
01:55:06,359 --> 01:55:10,880
But so they just latch onto whatever's out there. But no,

1882
01:55:11,039 --> 01:55:16,760
I think the laws of Christianity are way more humanitarian

1883
01:55:16,880 --> 01:55:19,600
obviously than the traditional laws of Islam.

1884
01:55:20,039 --> 01:55:23,119
Speaker 2: I'd like to make a couple of points on slavery,

1885
01:55:23,319 --> 01:55:29,000
because there was a Protestant guy who said that one

1886
01:55:29,000 --> 01:55:35,039
of the worst missed opportunities for the Council of Nicia

1887
01:55:35,319 --> 01:55:39,560
is that they didn't ban slavery. Now, I don't know

1888
01:55:39,560 --> 01:55:42,920
how we expected that to happen. How a council of

1889
01:55:42,960 --> 01:55:47,039
bishops could ban slavery. They could put it forward or something,

1890
01:55:47,079 --> 01:55:54,039
I suppose, But people miss very simple historical realities. It

1891
01:55:54,119 --> 01:55:57,880
wasn't that maybe for the Roman Empire this was different,

1892
01:55:58,279 --> 01:56:01,640
but for most of human history in most places which

1893
01:56:01,680 --> 01:56:06,760
weren't highly highly developed. And then even there, you don't

1894
01:56:06,760 --> 01:56:09,640
get freed from slavery. And then you go and you know,

1895
01:56:09,840 --> 01:56:13,159
start working in a shop. You know, I don't know,

1896
01:56:13,279 --> 01:56:18,680
like never mind, I can't make a joke if I

1897
01:56:18,680 --> 01:56:22,439
can't remember the name of the shop. But you don't

1898
01:56:22,479 --> 01:56:26,840
start your own podcast, you don't start like making your

1899
01:56:26,840 --> 01:56:30,720
own trinkets or something that is not an option, Which

1900
01:56:30,720 --> 01:56:34,920
is why there's a stipulation in the Bible and the

1901
01:56:34,960 --> 01:56:38,920
Mosaic Law that if you want to stay as a slave,

1902
01:56:39,199 --> 01:56:41,680
you know, there's a process for it. You get your pierced,

1903
01:56:41,760 --> 01:56:46,920
and you know, certain signs of it. Why because at

1904
01:56:47,039 --> 01:56:50,840
least you would get food and shelter, which is not

1905
01:56:51,039 --> 01:56:55,079
even a probability if you just go out on your

1906
01:56:55,079 --> 01:56:56,800
own after being a slave.

1907
01:56:57,279 --> 01:57:00,960
Speaker 4: I will add really quick, really quick. A basically like

1908
01:57:01,159 --> 01:57:04,039
to reference the woman in the woods during a wartime,

1909
01:57:05,199 --> 01:57:09,560
the modern person who's oh slavery bad Christianity falls. Do

1910
01:57:09,640 --> 01:57:11,279
you think that woman in the woods is going to

1911
01:57:11,319 --> 01:57:13,640
build a treehouse and have some sort of like weird

1912
01:57:13,760 --> 01:57:16,199
only fans from the treehouse and she's gonna make her

1913
01:57:16,239 --> 01:57:18,960
way in the world. No, the man will be like, no,

1914
01:57:19,039 --> 01:57:21,840
I'm going to pluck you from the wilderness, even against

1915
01:57:21,920 --> 01:57:24,119
your will, and I'm going to make a better life

1916
01:57:24,159 --> 01:57:27,760
for you because I'm leading you. So continue posture.

1917
01:57:27,960 --> 01:57:32,600
Speaker 2: Right. So, by the way Islam teaches, you know, taking

1918
01:57:32,720 --> 01:57:36,439
sex slaves. That is why they say that the you're

1919
01:57:36,479 --> 01:57:42,079
allowed sex with women you're married to, or what is

1920
01:57:42,159 --> 01:57:45,479
described as that which your right hand possesses.

1921
01:57:47,920 --> 01:57:49,319
Speaker 4: Two right hands or one right.

1922
01:57:49,199 --> 01:58:02,279
Speaker 2: Hand which one right So mota is basically temporary marriage.

1923
01:58:02,439 --> 01:58:07,239
So it's still considered marriage. Now, the studies will tell

1924
01:58:07,279 --> 01:58:09,800
you that this is a sheer practice. But then again,

1925
01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:13,399
you know, as with all things in Islam, depends on

1926
01:58:13,439 --> 01:58:17,960
whom you ask, but even not that is considered marriage,

1927
01:58:18,920 --> 01:58:21,079
and therefore nika is permitted.

1928
01:58:24,720 --> 01:58:28,880
Speaker 4: Sorry sorry, maybe.

1929
01:58:31,000 --> 01:58:39,239
Speaker 2: Because you basically said, what's up efforts? But uh uh,

1930
01:58:39,399 --> 01:58:44,199
what I mean is there's no such allowance in Mosaic law,

1931
01:58:44,520 --> 01:58:47,520
even with the women you get who have not yet

1932
01:58:47,560 --> 01:58:51,520
known a man, And that is given only for specific

1933
01:58:52,279 --> 01:58:57,279
campaigns for specific peoples to be specifically punished for the

1934
01:58:57,279 --> 01:59:00,279
most grotesque practices, even amongst.

1935
01:59:00,920 --> 01:59:04,640
Speaker 5: And there's something probably going on with the ending of

1936
01:59:04,680 --> 01:59:09,520
that lineage in the in divine providence. That again, what's

1937
01:59:09,520 --> 01:59:13,319
happening in the Old is sure the survival of the

1938
01:59:13,880 --> 01:59:18,279
people to produce them. It's not because they have better

1939
01:59:18,560 --> 01:59:20,159
DNA or something magical DNA.

1940
01:59:20,239 --> 01:59:20,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

1941
01:59:21,119 --> 01:59:25,159
Speaker 5: So people who are committed to the destruction of Israel

1942
01:59:25,239 --> 01:59:29,000
in the Old Testament period, that's the specific reasons why

1943
01:59:29,039 --> 01:59:33,159
God ends the lineage of those groups. So and it's

1944
01:59:33,199 --> 01:59:35,520
the same principle with the flood as we've talked about

1945
01:59:35,520 --> 01:59:37,520
with the Muslims. I would like to add too, because

1946
01:59:37,520 --> 01:59:39,399
it didn't we didn't actually get the covered in the debate.

1947
01:59:39,439 --> 01:59:43,920
But the Bible in no place allows the Jews or

1948
01:59:43,960 --> 01:59:47,279
Israelizes to grape anyone. So the most saying that you

1949
01:59:47,319 --> 01:59:49,239
can do that. There's no passage that you can.

1950
01:59:49,840 --> 01:59:52,439
Speaker 2: They mean like you can take the women who have

1951
01:59:52,479 --> 01:59:54,439
not yet known a man. But it says you give

1952
01:59:54,439 --> 01:59:59,399
them forty days to mourn and then they can decide

1953
01:59:59,439 --> 02:00:04,159
whether to stay with you or not. And right if

1954
02:00:04,359 --> 02:00:08,520
they decide to stay, they shave their head, And which

1955
02:00:08,560 --> 02:00:13,479
is how women would convert to Judaism, what we call Judaism.

1956
02:00:13,520 --> 02:00:17,039
I suppose they would shave their head. You know, can't

1957
02:00:17,039 --> 02:00:23,119
freely circumcize them, A bit difficult, okay, if your Muslim,

1958
02:00:23,119 --> 02:00:26,600
we can, but there's no biblical stipulation for how you

1959
02:00:26,640 --> 02:00:29,720
would circumcize a woman. But that that shaving of the

1960
02:00:29,800 --> 02:00:35,760
head represents like a new start. And if they refuse,

1961
02:00:35,960 --> 02:00:39,399
you have to let them go, and you're forbidden from

1962
02:00:40,079 --> 02:00:44,600
selling them into slavery. Now, the Jews the Israelites at

1963
02:00:44,600 --> 02:00:48,039
this point still it wasn't yet split into North and South.

1964
02:00:48,520 --> 02:00:52,720
So the Israelites, a lot of them didn't follow these rules.

1965
02:00:52,760 --> 02:00:57,880
But that's a different thing. Like people who say, oh,

1966
02:00:57,960 --> 02:01:02,800
we are told the Jews that Israelites were monotheistic, but

1967
02:01:03,039 --> 02:01:08,119
archaeology tells us and what just take the Old Testament,

1968
02:01:08,520 --> 02:01:11,279
you know, and you know, go to a random page

1969
02:01:11,319 --> 02:01:14,399
and put your finger somewhere, go five verses up or down.

1970
02:01:14,479 --> 02:01:19,399
It will say something about Israelites worshiping foreign gods. Right,

1971
02:01:19,479 --> 02:01:23,199
and so the disobedience to the law doesn't mean that

1972
02:01:23,279 --> 02:01:26,680
it's allowed. So God will tolerate a lot of things,

1973
02:01:27,119 --> 02:01:31,600
but he sets out what is the moral expectation. And

1974
02:01:32,239 --> 02:01:35,640
once you fill up the cup of iniquity, as it's

1975
02:01:35,680 --> 02:01:40,359
most often translated, then bad things start to happen. Right,

1976
02:01:40,439 --> 02:01:43,319
So tolerance is done. Now you have to suffer because

1977
02:01:43,359 --> 02:01:47,920
you will not be corrected any other way. So that

1978
02:01:48,000 --> 02:01:52,439
part is clear about the women, but about slavery in general.

1979
02:01:52,479 --> 02:01:55,840
As I said, it wasn't a free market economy. I

1980
02:01:55,840 --> 02:01:59,800
guess in a sense it was because things weren't as interconnected.

1981
02:02:00,279 --> 02:02:02,359
But there was no You would be some type of

1982
02:02:02,439 --> 02:02:04,720
day laborer, right, you would work all.

1983
02:02:04,680 --> 02:02:10,560
Speaker 4: Day and free market listen, doesn't I hate to interrupt,

1984
02:02:10,600 --> 02:02:13,800
but I don't want to do it. Haale spin into

1985
02:02:13,880 --> 02:02:18,920
Islam and all that. Let's continue with this guy's dumb position.

1986
02:02:19,119 --> 02:02:24,319
And by this guy, I mean this guy and then

1987
02:02:24,680 --> 02:02:28,279
Jay and and Posh. You can sort of influence when

1988
02:02:28,319 --> 02:02:30,000
you want to get into more modern cakes.

1989
02:02:30,319 --> 02:02:34,399
Speaker 2: You should get progressively closer total.

1990
02:02:34,880 --> 02:02:37,039
Speaker 4: I mean, look at that. I mean looks like what's

1991
02:02:37,079 --> 02:02:39,760
the movie with Ben ben Stiller where he's a model.

1992
02:02:40,880 --> 02:02:43,199
It's kind of like that, you know, where he's a

1993
02:02:43,199 --> 02:02:46,000
model and he's a camera. Yes, he's.

1994
02:02:48,680 --> 02:02:50,880
Speaker 2: He looks offensively irish, by the way.

1995
02:02:51,159 --> 02:02:52,359
Speaker 4: He is very irish.

1996
02:02:52,560 --> 02:02:57,079
Speaker 10: Yeah, he is some years from the going forth of

1997
02:02:57,159 --> 02:03:00,439
the order to rebuild Jerusalem to the coming of Messiah.

1998
02:03:00,880 --> 02:03:04,079
So many of the thinkers down through history have played

1999
02:03:04,119 --> 02:03:07,039
with these seventy weeks of Daniel, all of them of

2000
02:03:07,079 --> 02:03:12,399
course envisioning that the seventy weeks expire with the advent

2001
02:03:12,479 --> 02:03:15,680
of Messiah and the beginning of the work of Christ

2002
02:03:15,880 --> 02:03:19,279
through his Church and so on. Darby again brings a

2003
02:03:19,399 --> 02:03:23,319
unique idea that the seventieth week is detached from the

2004
02:03:23,319 --> 02:03:26,800
first sixty nine and thrust out somewhere in the future,

2005
02:03:27,159 --> 02:03:30,520
and that seventieth Week of Daniel is actually identical with

2006
02:03:31,079 --> 02:03:35,800
the Great Tribulation. If there's ever a point where Darby's

2007
02:03:35,840 --> 02:03:40,319
analysis has been almost universally criticized by non dispensationalists, it's

2008
02:03:40,319 --> 02:03:43,279
here because at least the general assessment is there is

2009
02:03:43,359 --> 02:03:49,720
absolutely no exegetical justification for detaching the seventieth week from

2010
02:03:49,800 --> 02:03:54,119
the first sixty nine. It is a somewhat arbitrary construction.

2011
02:03:53,920 --> 02:03:56,920
Speaker 5: But it yeah, he has to do that to make

2012
02:03:56,960 --> 02:03:57,359
it work.

2013
02:03:58,560 --> 02:04:00,279
Speaker 2: And by the way, every time you hit it, how'd

2014
02:04:00,319 --> 02:04:04,039
this unique take? I should tell you everything you need

2015
02:04:04,119 --> 02:04:04,279
to know.

2016
02:04:05,159 --> 02:04:10,359
Speaker 10: Sixty nine does make seem hang together better to view

2017
02:04:10,399 --> 02:04:10,880
it that way.

2018
02:04:10,960 --> 02:04:12,119
Speaker 9: So that's what he does.

2019
02:04:12,840 --> 02:04:17,600
Speaker 10: The church is raptured out before the tribulation. Now, this

2020
02:04:17,720 --> 02:04:21,840
again was a notion that seems to have been borrowed

2021
02:04:22,319 --> 02:04:25,600
from Edward Irving. We talked about him a couple of

2022
02:04:25,680 --> 02:04:29,119
weeks ago, and at least there's fairly good documentation that

2023
02:04:29,279 --> 02:04:33,880
Edward Irving got the idea of a tribulation period and

2024
02:04:33,920 --> 02:04:37,479
a church being raptured out in an ecstatic utterance from

2025
02:04:37,479 --> 02:04:39,039
a young woman named Margaret.

2026
02:04:38,840 --> 02:04:42,119
Speaker 9: MacDonald and one of his somewhat pentecostal uh J.

2027
02:04:45,760 --> 02:04:48,680
Speaker 4: Why, I'm sorry you may have said this, but why

2028
02:04:48,800 --> 02:04:51,760
was it the week before and not like sixty eight

2029
02:04:51,840 --> 02:04:54,600
or something like why wasn't it two weeks? Did you

2030
02:04:54,720 --> 02:04:55,399
clarify that?

2031
02:04:56,159 --> 02:04:56,239
Speaker 2: Like?

2032
02:04:56,279 --> 02:05:00,199
Speaker 4: What was the why the last week?

2033
02:05:00,199 --> 02:05:02,840
Speaker 5: The last week is the one that's the where all

2034
02:05:02,880 --> 02:05:06,119
the heavy crazy stuff happens. Oh, let me read this

2035
02:05:06,159 --> 02:05:08,399
passage if you don't mind, it's not long. Do you

2036
02:05:08,439 --> 02:05:08,920
want me to read it?

2037
02:05:09,479 --> 02:05:09,640
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2038
02:05:09,680 --> 02:05:11,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, do it, man, I'm open here.

2039
02:05:11,439 --> 02:05:16,000
Speaker 5: Okay. So basically, it says all of the measure of

2040
02:05:16,159 --> 02:05:19,479
the sins are going to be fulfilled and everything finished

2041
02:05:19,520 --> 02:05:23,640
and determined within this period of seventy weeks, which is

2042
02:05:23,680 --> 02:05:27,880
not it's four hundred and ninety years, it's weeks of years. Okay.

2043
02:05:29,720 --> 02:05:35,119
It will finish sin, wipe out lawlessness, the tone for wrongdoing,

2044
02:05:35,479 --> 02:05:39,119
bring righteousness, seal up vision and prophecy, and anoint the

2045
02:05:39,159 --> 02:05:42,359
Holy One. You will know that there will be from

2046
02:05:42,359 --> 02:05:45,079
the know that from the going forth of the word

2047
02:05:45,159 --> 02:05:47,800
to rebuild Jerusalem. Now, this is the part that's somewhat

2048
02:05:47,840 --> 02:05:51,279
debated because we have to go to different texts and

2049
02:05:51,319 --> 02:05:56,279
look at Ezra to figure out when the most people

2050
02:05:56,319 --> 02:05:59,880
think artistser Sees commissioned Ezra to rebuild the temple and

2051
02:06:00,000 --> 02:06:05,439
four fifty eight BC, which is second Ezra seven, seven

2052
02:06:05,439 --> 02:06:08,239
and eight in the Orthodox study level. Okay, so there's

2053
02:06:08,239 --> 02:06:11,479
some debate over that, but we'll skip that debate this

2054
02:06:11,880 --> 02:06:15,560
for this point, because the main point is that all

2055
02:06:15,600 --> 02:06:18,159
of this is happening in this final seven years of

2056
02:06:18,199 --> 02:06:20,760
the four hundred and ninety years. Right. You will know

2057
02:06:20,800 --> 02:06:22,920
therefore and understand that from the going forth to build

2058
02:06:22,920 --> 02:06:28,840
the Temple, to rebuild the Temple and rebuild Jerusalem, that Christ,

2059
02:06:29,159 --> 02:06:33,199
the Messiah, the Prince, there will be seventy weeks, and

2060
02:06:33,199 --> 02:06:36,840
I'm going to skip down to the final week. After these,

2061
02:06:37,399 --> 02:06:40,079
the anointed One will be put to death and there

2062
02:06:40,079 --> 02:06:44,439
will be no judgment for him, and he will destroy

2063
02:06:44,479 --> 02:06:47,079
the city and the sanctuary with the Prince who is coming,

2064
02:06:47,479 --> 02:06:50,119
and they shall cut off with a flood and end

2065
02:06:50,279 --> 02:06:54,199
the war with an end of war. And this will

2066
02:06:54,199 --> 02:06:58,479
put the city, appoint the city to desolation. But know

2067
02:06:58,600 --> 02:07:02,359
this that he will make a covenant, and in the

2068
02:07:02,439 --> 02:07:05,079
middle of that covenant, the sacrifice and the and the

2069
02:07:05,119 --> 02:07:07,720
offering will be taken away, and there will be an

2070
02:07:07,720 --> 02:07:12,680
abomination of desolation in the temple and an end that

2071
02:07:12,800 --> 02:07:17,199
is appointed. So basically we interpret that as Christians, as Orthodox,

2072
02:07:17,359 --> 02:07:22,119
especially that the Messiah fulfills these things in that last week,

2073
02:07:23,279 --> 02:07:26,079
that last seven years of his time frame of being

2074
02:07:26,079 --> 02:07:28,960
a minister, and then the destruction of the Temple. It's

2075
02:07:29,000 --> 02:07:33,880
all encapsulated under this last in other words, the first Coming,

2076
02:07:33,920 --> 02:07:35,800
the First Coming fulfills these prophecies.

2077
02:07:36,800 --> 02:07:40,000
Speaker 4: Okay, so Jay, it sounds like it makes total sense

2078
02:07:40,039 --> 02:07:42,520
you'd hold off on that week because if you stop

2079
02:07:42,560 --> 02:07:45,159
it at the sixty nine week and have an arbitrary pause,

2080
02:07:45,760 --> 02:07:49,239
you can keep waiting and waiting and have control over

2081
02:07:50,000 --> 02:07:54,000
that final like basically any time between sixty nine weeks

2082
02:07:54,079 --> 02:07:57,319
and the rest of the world. You're basically correct. Like

2083
02:07:57,359 --> 02:08:00,319
Pasha said, You're just always right because you've hit a

2084
02:08:00,520 --> 02:08:03,399
our arbitrary pause, so you can just keep manipulating real

2085
02:08:03,439 --> 02:08:08,720
time events, smuggling them into your dispensational view. And because

2086
02:08:08,760 --> 02:08:12,039
you hit pause, you could you'll never be wrong. You'll

2087
02:08:12,039 --> 02:08:15,000
never be a wrong profit in a sense right because

2088
02:08:15,039 --> 02:08:17,039
because things never could come to pass, because you have

2089
02:08:17,079 --> 02:08:20,359
to hit unpause eventually on the on the on the

2090
02:08:20,680 --> 02:08:24,800
play deck there. So it's that seems very deliberate to me.

2091
02:08:25,840 --> 02:08:28,800
Speaker 5: Yea, not only what you just forgot that the Epistle

2092
02:08:28,840 --> 02:08:31,479
of Barnabas, which is not canonical but it's a very

2093
02:08:31,479 --> 02:08:36,079
early testament to the views of the early Church, observes

2094
02:08:36,119 --> 02:08:38,000
that this pass was fulfilled when the temple and the

2095
02:08:38,000 --> 02:08:40,840
sanctuary destroyed in seventy eight. Marnabas points out that a

2096
02:08:40,880 --> 02:08:43,520
true temple was built the body of Christ during this

2097
02:08:43,600 --> 02:08:47,680
time period. Seventy weeks is determined to mean seventy weeks

2098
02:08:47,680 --> 02:08:49,680
of years or four un or ninety years. The prophecy

2099
02:08:49,720 --> 02:08:54,119
applies to Jeremiah's seventy years from Jeremiah nine to twenty

2100
02:08:54,159 --> 02:08:56,600
five eleven, and it says, according to Saint Hipolotists, the

2101
02:08:56,640 --> 02:08:59,039
vision concerns the time when the temple would be rebuilt

2102
02:08:59,640 --> 02:09:02,800
as well as the coming of the Messiah. And then

2103
02:09:03,039 --> 02:09:05,720
our desercees commissions Ezra to rebuild the temple in four

2104
02:09:05,840 --> 02:09:09,399
fifty eight PC. So yeah, it's a little confusing with

2105
02:09:09,479 --> 02:09:12,399
the Weird Week's terminology, but that's what.

2106
02:09:12,399 --> 02:09:14,000
Speaker 2: Was going on, gotcha.

2107
02:09:15,199 --> 02:09:19,039
Speaker 9: Little style meetings. You know, it was not developed by

2108
02:09:19,119 --> 02:09:19,760
Edward Irving.

2109
02:09:19,800 --> 02:09:23,439
Speaker 10: He didn't work out in elaborate eschatology, but that kernel

2110
02:09:23,800 --> 02:09:27,520
may have been the most important triggering idea in the

2111
02:09:27,560 --> 02:09:30,279
whole thought of Darby, and he took that and ran

2112
02:09:30,359 --> 02:09:33,560
with it a long way. And so it was this

2113
02:09:33,720 --> 02:09:38,640
pre tribulation rapture that and since became the seed out

2114
02:09:38,640 --> 02:09:41,720
of which so much of the rest of his eschatological

2115
02:09:41,880 --> 02:09:45,239
schematic was developed. So the church is not only raptured

2116
02:09:45,239 --> 02:09:50,920
out before the millennium, actually before this tribulation period. Most

2117
02:09:50,920 --> 02:09:53,760
of the Book of Revelation, according to Darby, is describing

2118
02:09:53,880 --> 02:09:58,640
events in the future that occurred during this tribulation period.

2119
02:09:59,079 --> 02:10:00,319
Speaker 9: This is what's called the.

2120
02:10:00,119 --> 02:10:04,439
Speaker 10: Futurist view of revelation, that is describing events in the future.

2121
02:10:04,479 --> 02:10:07,479
We've looked at the historicist view in some details.

2122
02:10:08,119 --> 02:10:09,119
Speaker 9: There's other views that.

2123
02:10:09,079 --> 02:10:13,880
Speaker 10: Were much less influential, the preterorist views these Revelation largely

2124
02:10:13,920 --> 02:10:18,159
describing events taking place in the first century. Darby becomes

2125
02:10:18,159 --> 02:10:22,560
the most famous of the futurist approaches to revelation.

2126
02:10:23,000 --> 02:10:27,439
Speaker 4: Now I want to pause there. Futurists, is that like

2127
02:10:27,520 --> 02:10:30,479
this view, that you contrive it and make it happen,

2128
02:10:31,319 --> 02:10:34,720
like an accelerationist view, or is futurist view in this

2129
02:10:34,760 --> 02:10:39,279
context something a little bit different, where it's just describing

2130
02:10:40,119 --> 02:10:43,920
the chronology and it's not a matter of contriving and trying.

2131
02:10:43,720 --> 02:10:49,000
Speaker 5: To make describing the preterism versus futurism. So basically there's

2132
02:10:49,000 --> 02:10:54,479
three views on dating, and there's preterorist, historicist, and futurist. Now,

2133
02:10:54,520 --> 02:10:57,880
creditist believes that much of the passages are fulfilled in

2134
02:10:57,920 --> 02:11:01,119
seventy eight or before, and that there might also be

2135
02:11:01,159 --> 02:11:05,560
a future fulfillment. But historicists believes that, for example, the

2136
02:11:05,560 --> 02:11:08,239
Book of Revelation is talking about the whole history of

2137
02:11:08,239 --> 02:11:11,720
the Church. A lot of Protestant Reformers were famously historicists.

2138
02:11:11,720 --> 02:11:16,680
Many Catholic Jesuit theologians have been historicists, and they kind

2139
02:11:16,680 --> 02:11:19,359
of see like random sort of stuff like you'll see

2140
02:11:19,399 --> 02:11:23,359
Roman Catholics say, oh, Revelation twelve, that was the Middle

2141
02:11:23,399 --> 02:11:26,119
Ages when the blah blah blah or whatever. They're just

2142
02:11:26,159 --> 02:11:29,079
sort of assigned random church history stuff to the Book

2143
02:11:29,079 --> 02:11:32,079
of Revelation. And then futurists is this these people? So

2144
02:11:32,239 --> 02:11:35,960
all pre millennialists are futurists, but not all pre millenninists

2145
02:11:36,000 --> 02:11:37,239
are dispensations.

2146
02:11:37,239 --> 02:11:38,199
Speaker 4: Gotcha.

2147
02:11:37,720 --> 02:11:37,880
Speaker 2: Ok.

2148
02:11:39,319 --> 02:11:42,439
Speaker 10: During that time, a character known as the Anti Christ

2149
02:11:42,640 --> 02:11:45,000
is going to dominate in the world. He comes in

2150
02:11:45,079 --> 02:11:47,279
originally as a kind of champion of peace.

2151
02:11:48,199 --> 02:11:50,239
Speaker 4: He makes best any creations of the.

2152
02:11:50,159 --> 02:11:54,119
Speaker 10: World, essentially putting himself in a position of worldwide prestige.

2153
02:11:54,600 --> 02:11:58,439
He makes packs, including a pact with Israel. But then

2154
02:11:58,520 --> 02:12:00,800
in the middle of this tribulation three and a half

2155
02:12:00,880 --> 02:12:02,199
years in, he violates.

2156
02:12:02,239 --> 02:12:04,680
Speaker 9: He breaches that agreement, committing.

2157
02:12:04,359 --> 02:12:07,439
Speaker 10: A sacrilegious act at a temple that of course, has

2158
02:12:07,479 --> 02:12:09,800
to be rebuilt before any of these could take place,

2159
02:12:10,319 --> 02:12:12,399
and that gives rise then to three and a half

2160
02:12:12,560 --> 02:12:16,920
years of horrific conditions in the world, culminating in a

2161
02:12:16,920 --> 02:12:20,439
great battle the scri er mentioned in Revelation sixteen called

2162
02:12:20,479 --> 02:12:22,079
the Battle of Armageddon.

2163
02:12:22,319 --> 02:12:24,439
Speaker 4: Now, I want to just note as we move into

2164
02:12:24,600 --> 02:12:29,600
the modern cultural context of all this, is that there

2165
02:12:30,199 --> 02:12:33,880
the dispensationalist view allows for seeing someone like Donald Trump

2166
02:12:34,039 --> 02:12:37,039
or anyone else in the arena. As you can take

2167
02:12:37,079 --> 02:12:39,880
the view that he's the evil one. You could also

2168
02:12:39,920 --> 02:12:42,800
take the view that he's the scent angelical one, and

2169
02:12:43,439 --> 02:12:47,079
they're both have some they both have some elasticity to

2170
02:12:47,159 --> 02:12:49,399
them if you hold this view. So that's what's kind

2171
02:12:49,399 --> 02:12:51,760
of that's what you see in the meme world right.

2172
02:12:51,800 --> 02:12:54,399
Posh mentioned the hat the mark of the Beast is

2173
02:12:54,640 --> 02:12:57,560
make America great again. But then other people take the

2174
02:12:57,640 --> 02:12:59,960
view that Donald Trump is in fact the anti crime

2175
02:13:00,199 --> 02:13:02,560
because he's going to make a pact and he supports Israel.

2176
02:13:02,600 --> 02:13:04,640
But then he's gonna you know, all this stuff. And

2177
02:13:04,720 --> 02:13:08,199
it's just interesting that the elasticity that it gives you

2178
02:13:08,239 --> 02:13:13,399
to hold this position, because to point out out again

2179
02:13:13,520 --> 02:13:16,920
that sixty nine week pause button really allows for any

2180
02:13:16,960 --> 02:13:20,800
sort of crafting and writing in between. Anything you want

2181
02:13:20,800 --> 02:13:23,439
to add to that, because I just you know, all

2182
02:13:23,479 --> 02:13:26,119
of these things he's saying, I can't help to be

2183
02:13:26,880 --> 02:13:31,520
triggered into the morass of modern culture, geopolitics, and all

2184
02:13:31,560 --> 02:13:34,439
the takes that we're engaging with daily.

2185
02:13:34,640 --> 02:13:41,800
Speaker 2: So anything, I would like to restate what I said

2186
02:13:41,840 --> 02:13:45,800
earlier that it's great for them because you basically occupy

2187
02:13:45,920 --> 02:13:46,760
both sides.

2188
02:13:46,520 --> 02:13:47,319
Speaker 5: Of the dialectic.

2189
02:13:48,279 --> 02:13:52,159
Speaker 2: You can say, oh, Trump is the Antichrist because look

2190
02:13:52,159 --> 02:13:55,560
at him, he is a woman and eyes. He has

2191
02:13:55,640 --> 02:13:58,920
worked in like New York real estate, so you can imagine,

2192
02:13:59,119 --> 02:14:02,399
you know, there's been so if the thing's going on there,

2193
02:14:03,199 --> 02:14:07,760
et cetera. But you can then have like religious leaders

2194
02:14:07,800 --> 02:14:12,800
who stood by him. You know, God uses imperfect people glory,

2195
02:14:12,920 --> 02:14:18,359
you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you could do anything. And

2196
02:14:18,399 --> 02:14:20,920
then you have like the Orthodox position is you pray

2197
02:14:21,000 --> 02:14:25,199
for those who are leading the country, right because they

2198
02:14:25,600 --> 02:14:28,319
everyone needs prayer. We all need prayer, We all need

2199
02:14:28,520 --> 02:14:32,640
mercy and grace. So you know, we don't know, he

2200
02:14:32,720 --> 02:14:36,119
could be, he could not be. Not ours to calculate

2201
02:14:36,359 --> 02:14:42,880
some pseudo geometrio or whatever. We we deal with what

2202
02:14:42,920 --> 02:14:47,199
we have. You know, Christ says you to pilot. You know,

2203
02:14:47,439 --> 02:14:49,680
you wouldn't have this authority unless it was granted to

2204
02:14:49,680 --> 02:14:56,279
you by my father. So we are granted certain predicaments

2205
02:14:56,560 --> 02:14:59,560
and we are to endure them in the most Christian

2206
02:14:59,600 --> 02:15:03,279
way we can. But that's not fun enough, you see.

2207
02:15:04,439 --> 02:15:08,680
But it's this beauty of you know, holding both sides

2208
02:15:08,680 --> 02:15:12,079
of the dialectic and then you know, run them through

2209
02:15:12,159 --> 02:15:14,640
whichever side you'd like, depending on how you think of them.

2210
02:15:14,760 --> 02:15:17,720
You know how many people have thought Obama was the

2211
02:15:17,760 --> 02:15:22,439
antis Of course there are still still people hanging on

2212
02:15:23,119 --> 02:15:28,079
to that thought. So you can't really reason with it

2213
02:15:28,119 --> 02:15:33,279
because it's not not just motivated thinking, but it's even

2214
02:15:33,600 --> 02:15:38,760
super objective motivated thinking because it's not just objective, it's

2215
02:15:38,880 --> 02:15:43,000
the word of God that says that. So it's even

2216
02:15:43,600 --> 02:15:50,039
higher than objective truth. And then like all the Anabaptists,

2217
02:15:50,119 --> 02:15:54,279
like all like Jehovah's witnesses, you know, you're just all

2218
02:15:54,319 --> 02:15:58,520
like climate change, and you know, you just know it's ending,

2219
02:15:58,560 --> 02:16:00,000
it's ending, and it doesn't end it just.

2220
02:16:01,319 --> 02:16:04,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm going to point to the last three here,

2221
02:16:04,720 --> 02:16:07,840
Posh and Jay, is that even what you just said

2222
02:16:08,079 --> 02:16:12,000
kind of brings this up is that the Antichrist from

2223
02:16:12,039 --> 02:16:15,840
this dispensational view really reduces to not a spirit, a

2224
02:16:16,960 --> 02:16:21,640
sort of proclivity to a rebellion or something like a

2225
02:16:21,680 --> 02:16:25,760
spirit of Antichrist versus a unique person with a name.

2226
02:16:25,960 --> 02:16:28,359
Now I want to reconcile this for the chat because

2227
02:16:28,359 --> 02:16:31,439
it's interesting. What would be the difference between a pre

2228
02:16:32,159 --> 02:16:36,399
a dispensationalist view of Antichrist as a distinction versus an Orthodox,

2229
02:16:36,520 --> 02:16:39,799
let's say, in this case, view of Antichrist, because because

2230
02:16:39,799 --> 02:16:42,840
it seems to be they hold the comic book view

2231
02:16:42,920 --> 02:16:46,319
where you have to reduce Antichrist to a very specific

2232
02:16:46,479 --> 02:16:50,440
kind of person and it doesn't include the spirit of Antichrist.

2233
02:16:50,600 --> 02:16:51,559
Now is that different?

2234
02:16:51,799 --> 02:16:52,000
Speaker 2: Right?

2235
02:16:52,360 --> 02:16:54,200
Speaker 4: It seems like a good distinction to explore.

2236
02:16:54,559 --> 02:16:57,920
Speaker 5: They focus, so they hyper focus on you know, that

2237
02:16:58,040 --> 02:17:02,000
individual and his power or what ever. And uh, you know,

2238
02:17:02,600 --> 02:17:06,760
for us, the false prophet is just as important as well,

2239
02:17:06,840 --> 02:17:09,719
because the false prophet is the leader of a false

2240
02:17:09,760 --> 02:17:13,920
religion that promotes Antichrist. So both of those figures are

2241
02:17:14,000 --> 02:17:17,680
are really important. And you couldn't have Antichrist without the

2242
02:17:17,719 --> 02:17:22,440
false prophet promoting the spirit of Antichrist, right, like a

2243
02:17:22,440 --> 02:17:26,280
mimic Messiah and a mimic Church and a memic Holy Spirit.

2244
02:17:26,399 --> 02:17:30,120
So it's a it's an inverted kind of trinity basically.

2245
02:17:30,239 --> 02:17:33,399
Speaker 4: Got you. But the from from a let's say, from

2246
02:17:33,440 --> 02:17:37,479
an Orthodox view, the spirit of Antichrist could exist and

2247
02:17:37,760 --> 02:17:42,959
something we can use in reference without the personification in.

2248
02:17:43,040 --> 02:17:45,760
Speaker 5: Flesh, right, because it's already at work.

2249
02:17:46,280 --> 02:17:48,799
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, So that seems to be a distinct Christ.

2250
02:17:48,879 --> 02:17:51,200
Speaker 5: Is anyone denying the incarnation and.

2251
02:17:51,200 --> 02:17:53,200
Speaker 2: John many have already come, right.

2252
02:17:53,520 --> 02:17:55,959
Speaker 4: So gravy, gravy.

2253
02:17:56,360 --> 02:17:58,559
Speaker 2: But but even people who go with like six sixty

2254
02:17:58,559 --> 02:18:02,079
six or six one six, are you gonna rendered Nero?

2255
02:18:03,120 --> 02:18:07,120
You know? Uh, that's not to say Nero is some

2256
02:18:07,479 --> 02:18:14,040
guy who is this Ultimateieval. He is the archetype of

2257
02:18:14,079 --> 02:18:17,319
the evil. He is the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire.

2258
02:18:17,360 --> 02:18:21,360
Speaker 5: Now keep in mind there's another key indicator that only

2259
02:18:21,479 --> 02:18:25,159
Orthodox have an insight into, because if in third Maccabee's

2260
02:18:25,239 --> 02:18:29,479
chapter one, it mentions the fact that Ptolemy, who is

2261
02:18:29,520 --> 02:18:33,520
a type of Antichrist, just like Nero, just like uh,

2262
02:18:33,760 --> 02:18:38,920
these other rulers are. Ptolemy mandates that in order to

2263
02:18:39,000 --> 02:18:41,399
buy or sell you have to take the mark of

2264
02:18:41,399 --> 02:18:44,159
the ancient mysteries of Dionysius. So you have to get

2265
02:18:44,200 --> 02:18:47,600
this leath tattoo or mark in order to buy or sell.

2266
02:18:47,680 --> 02:18:49,920
And so when John talks about the mark to buy

2267
02:18:50,000 --> 02:18:54,479
or sell, it's the same spirit Ptolemy had that now

2268
02:18:54,559 --> 02:18:58,040
Nero's having, and presumably also will be the spirit used

2269
02:18:58,079 --> 02:19:00,239
at the end. Whenever the end is, there'll be some

2270
02:19:00,360 --> 02:19:05,920
kind of attempt to control all economic transactions and so forth,

2271
02:19:06,159 --> 02:19:07,440
food and so forth too.

2272
02:19:07,600 --> 02:19:11,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, and important to mention is that there's also saying

2273
02:19:12,000 --> 02:19:15,920
that this is the church basically offers a counter to it.

2274
02:19:16,000 --> 02:19:20,360
So it's not going to be, you know, a medical procedure.

2275
02:19:20,600 --> 02:19:22,959
You know, your local priest isn't going to get the

2276
02:19:24,399 --> 02:19:30,319
Holy Jabbies or something, or you know, in Greece there

2277
02:19:30,399 --> 02:19:34,280
was a whole mess a couple of decades ago with

2278
02:19:34,479 --> 02:19:38,639
barcodes because they thought, oh, you need these lines to

2279
02:19:38,760 --> 02:19:43,600
buy stuff. Right, So, you know, Orthodoxy isn't fully immune

2280
02:19:43,639 --> 02:19:48,600
to nonsense because people really like flashy things. They like

2281
02:19:49,040 --> 02:19:51,840
things that are easy to grasp and very they like

2282
02:19:51,879 --> 02:19:56,479
the immediacy of it, which is again wrong and unwise

2283
02:19:56,639 --> 02:19:59,920
and should not be calculated by these pathetic means. But

2284
02:20:02,239 --> 02:20:06,840
it's it's history plays out, and if you're going to

2285
02:20:07,000 --> 02:20:12,040
use certain like the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Canaan ideities.

2286
02:20:12,639 --> 02:20:16,879
You know that that's the image that is used to

2287
02:20:17,000 --> 02:20:19,799
show it to people back in that day. So like

2288
02:20:19,959 --> 02:20:24,680
terminologies used in certain ways, we need to maintain that usage.

2289
02:20:24,760 --> 02:20:29,360
That This is why pern is so important. The phone

2290
02:20:29,600 --> 02:20:32,639
of the church is that you need to maintain the

2291
02:20:32,680 --> 02:20:36,600
original meaning and take it on. And you know, if

2292
02:20:36,719 --> 02:20:38,760
you need to change the word, change the word, but

2293
02:20:38,840 --> 02:20:42,840
don't change the meaning, but keep the graphemes and the phonemes,

2294
02:20:42,879 --> 02:20:50,719
that that's pointless. And this is why this apocalypticism that's

2295
02:20:51,040 --> 02:20:54,079
there's been prevalent for the last couple of centuries among

2296
02:20:55,079 --> 02:20:59,760
certain strands of Protestantism are so powerful because it seems

2297
02:21:00,239 --> 02:21:04,479
correct even though you've actually moved from the meanings of

2298
02:21:04,520 --> 02:21:07,799
the words that are used and the symbols that are used,

2299
02:21:08,719 --> 02:21:13,440
so it bears no resemblance to the original. You know,

2300
02:21:13,600 --> 02:21:19,680
like Yon Mathis rode out like with like a dozen

2301
02:21:19,719 --> 02:21:23,000
people into thousands of soldiers and believed he would get victory.

2302
02:21:23,680 --> 02:21:27,600
Obviously loses. Does that stop his cult? No? They because

2303
02:21:27,600 --> 02:21:31,120
he was chopped up and his head put on a pike.

2304
02:21:31,799 --> 02:21:35,159
I think his genitals were nailed to city gates or whatever.

2305
02:21:35,639 --> 02:21:41,479
Speaker 4: But why does that make you so happy?

2306
02:21:43,799 --> 02:21:47,319
Speaker 2: I'm only two piers and I'm not too happy. But no,

2307
02:21:47,920 --> 02:21:51,719
it's funny because you think it would stop the cult.

2308
02:21:51,840 --> 02:21:54,879
It doesn't. They go and gather pieces of him into

2309
02:21:54,920 --> 02:21:58,600
baskets and then wait for him to resurrect. Right, So

2310
02:22:00,079 --> 02:22:04,000
you would think that they would be, you know, somehow

2311
02:22:04,680 --> 02:22:09,920
corrected by the events unfolding in front of them. But no,

2312
02:22:10,040 --> 02:22:13,440
it doesn't. They just recalibrate and move on.

2313
02:22:14,559 --> 02:22:19,239
Speaker 4: Are you guys okay? Moving in jay specifically geopolitics, modern

2314
02:22:19,319 --> 02:22:26,200
implications effects of this shit view? Would you like to

2315
02:22:26,200 --> 02:22:27,319
do that technic?

2316
02:22:28,360 --> 02:22:28,559
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2317
02:22:29,000 --> 02:22:31,959
Speaker 4: You well, because you know, because we're dealing with, you know,

2318
02:22:32,239 --> 02:22:36,520
the Boomer. I think the boomers are really the I

2319
02:22:36,559 --> 02:22:38,600
don't want to call them victims because they did it

2320
02:22:38,639 --> 02:22:41,360
to themselves, but they really kind of ran with this view,

2321
02:22:41,799 --> 02:22:46,120
and the ones that are left are still proponents of

2322
02:22:46,120 --> 02:22:48,760
the view, and they're they're in positions of power and

2323
02:22:48,799 --> 02:22:51,520
what I'm if you guys are wondering what kind of

2324
02:22:51,559 --> 02:22:54,280
like person I'm referring to, this is a good clip

2325
02:22:54,399 --> 02:22:57,239
to kind of to sort of show you who I'm

2326
02:22:57,280 --> 02:22:57,879
talking about.

2327
02:23:00,079 --> 02:23:06,200
Speaker 9: Country going to hell in a handbasket, don't what the

2328
02:23:06,280 --> 02:23:08,319
cut who we had great.

2329
02:23:09,360 --> 02:23:12,000
Speaker 4: Is that's the that's the kind of spirit of it.

2330
02:23:12,639 --> 02:23:16,479
And before we get into the geopolitics, Jay just to

2331
02:23:16,600 --> 02:23:19,520
demonstrate it with another video, kind of the kind of

2332
02:23:19,719 --> 02:23:23,680
mess that is produced by this view for people who

2333
02:23:23,760 --> 02:23:26,440
don't even call themselves Christians. I think this is a

2334
02:23:26,479 --> 02:23:29,879
fascinating clip. We can run off this and Jay and

2335
02:23:29,879 --> 02:23:31,639
and Pasha, you can take it where you will, but

2336
02:23:31,719 --> 02:23:35,600
this is I found this clip fascinating to really demonstrate

2337
02:23:35,680 --> 02:23:38,799
the impact of this view and how what it looks

2338
02:23:38,840 --> 02:23:49,920
like and the kind of confusion it creates.

2339
02:23:51,360 --> 02:23:54,600
Speaker 1: This is what calls the actions.

2340
02:24:00,559 --> 02:24:04,079
Speaker 4: Really that Yeah, yeah, we lived in love a beautiful prison.

2341
02:24:04,159 --> 02:24:04,959
Speaker 5: Want to sleep people?

2342
02:24:05,000 --> 02:24:09,600
Speaker 4: They was there?

2343
02:24:09,719 --> 02:24:15,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was not a count.

2344
02:24:14,920 --> 02:24:15,799
Speaker 9: Nothing, And.

2345
02:24:17,879 --> 02:24:23,239
Speaker 4: Help me say that you're jealous. You know you do

2346
02:24:23,399 --> 02:24:24,120
anything from.

2347
02:24:24,200 --> 02:24:24,840
Speaker 2: A count.

2348
02:24:28,040 --> 02:24:30,399
Speaker 7: And I can do as world.

2349
02:24:31,360 --> 02:24:33,360
Speaker 4: How they saying that because they believe.

2350
02:24:34,399 --> 02:24:36,520
Speaker 5: So we're telling again, I don't want you doing.

2351
02:24:36,360 --> 02:24:36,799
Speaker 4: A girl.

2352
02:24:38,879 --> 02:24:39,079
Speaker 7: Either.

2353
02:24:39,120 --> 02:24:40,200
Speaker 4: Other you're going.

2354
02:24:41,239 --> 02:24:47,799
Speaker 1: Say, yeah, also, learn.

2355
02:24:49,719 --> 02:24:50,920
Speaker 2: Your person.

2356
02:24:54,319 --> 02:24:55,799
Speaker 7: A TV.

2357
02:24:58,239 --> 02:25:42,360
Speaker 4: Yelling no I'm Jewish, No you're she's just flabberty to

2358
02:25:42,440 --> 02:25:48,600
your monsters. Thinks yeah he's got she's got the little

2359
02:25:48,639 --> 02:25:49,040
gay guy.

2360
02:25:49,120 --> 02:25:52,479
Speaker 2: Next, Yeah, but when I get into faces and shout

2361
02:25:52,600 --> 02:25:55,920
you are Jewish like this, then I'm somehow bad?

2362
02:25:56,319 --> 02:26:00,719
Speaker 4: You're terrible? Yeah, so so Jay and Posh. That image

2363
02:26:00,799 --> 02:26:04,360
right there really sort of demonstrates the sort of catastrophe

2364
02:26:04,760 --> 02:26:07,600
in the views collapsing and that that they don't even

2365
02:26:07,639 --> 02:26:09,840
know what it means to say Jewish, or they don't

2366
02:26:09,840 --> 02:26:12,920
know what it means to say supportive Israel. It's all,

2367
02:26:13,639 --> 02:26:17,440
it's all completely ripped apart, and watching that view, it's

2368
02:26:17,559 --> 02:26:22,120
partially funny but also horrifying. I gotta say, I'm so

2369
02:26:22,200 --> 02:26:25,280
happy to be on track to be in the church

2370
02:26:26,479 --> 02:26:29,559
because it makes sense of all of this. You're not confused.

2371
02:26:29,639 --> 02:26:31,680
You look at this too. You could actually look at

2372
02:26:31,680 --> 02:26:34,600
that woman as a cultural New York Jew or wherever

2373
02:26:34,680 --> 02:26:37,520
she is, and she thinks Jewish is Jewish. And then

2374
02:26:37,559 --> 02:26:40,639
the Orthodo, the Ortho Bagels as I call them, they're like,

2375
02:26:41,079 --> 02:26:43,719
what are you talking about? Like we don't even agree

2376
02:26:43,760 --> 02:26:46,360
with you here, And then really what they're talking about

2377
02:26:46,479 --> 02:26:51,680
is this distinction, like they one side sold a fake

2378
02:26:52,600 --> 02:26:55,399
advertised Israel and what it means to be Jewish and

2379
02:26:55,479 --> 02:26:58,600
the other one holds a different view. And even though

2380
02:26:58,680 --> 02:27:01,959
we disagree with both both of their overall world views.

2381
02:27:02,639 --> 02:27:04,959
It really does demonstrate I don't I don't know a

2382
02:27:05,040 --> 02:27:07,760
better clip that could sort of at least encapsulate the

2383
02:27:07,920 --> 02:27:10,120
impact of this view. Is that fair to say that

2384
02:27:10,440 --> 02:27:13,440
what we just witnessed is is really just like an

2385
02:27:13,520 --> 02:27:17,639
impact of the destruction, like rubble, the rubble of the view.

2386
02:27:22,440 --> 02:27:22,799
Speaker 2: To stop.

2387
02:27:23,399 --> 02:27:27,079
Speaker 5: Go ahead, Yeah, okay, I've got the So the best

2388
02:27:27,399 --> 02:27:29,680
history on this, by the way, is there's a whole

2389
02:27:30,319 --> 02:27:33,840
five pages in Tragic Hope that's really good on the

2390
02:27:33,920 --> 02:27:36,280
British imperial structure.

2391
02:27:36,559 --> 02:27:43,600
Speaker 4: What dude said, locks, all right, sorry, I'm immature, ortho. Locks.

2392
02:27:43,719 --> 02:27:47,079
Speaker 5: Go ahead, No that I can just kind of summarize

2393
02:27:47,120 --> 02:27:49,360
those pages when when we're ready, if you want, but

2394
02:27:49,399 --> 02:27:50,280
go ahead, go for.

2395
02:27:52,280 --> 02:27:56,159
Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to mention how the whole idea of

2396
02:27:56,879 --> 02:28:04,760
genetic judaism is verytant here because you that woman doesn't

2397
02:28:04,760 --> 02:28:11,120
look particularly practicing. But there's a great summary. There's most

2398
02:28:11,239 --> 02:28:15,760
few believe there is no God, but he gave them Israel,

2399
02:28:18,159 --> 02:28:24,559
and then they go through to show that. I've even

2400
02:28:24,680 --> 02:28:29,280
seen Ben Shapiro, you know, being plums about this on

2401
02:28:30,520 --> 02:28:33,520
on a debate stage when he says, well, how can

2402
02:28:33,600 --> 02:28:37,399
you say you have a right to Israel the land there,

2403
02:28:37,799 --> 02:28:43,239
and he says because of synagogues. And then someone said, okay,

2404
02:28:43,319 --> 02:28:47,959
there are Native American you know, burial grounds in the US,

2405
02:28:48,079 --> 02:28:51,799
so why don't you leave? You know, so they can't

2406
02:28:51,959 --> 02:28:55,319
ever maintain this because there is no it's not meant

2407
02:28:55,360 --> 02:28:58,200
to be coherent. It's just meant to be useful. And

2408
02:28:58,440 --> 02:29:02,440
when you see the these Hasidics, who are you know,

2409
02:29:02,559 --> 02:29:05,879
they're wacky in their own ways. You have strands of Judaism,

2410
02:29:05,959 --> 02:29:08,200
then believe, no, no, no, no no. God has to

2411
02:29:08,319 --> 02:29:11,399
give us the land. We can't do it ourselves. He

2412
02:29:11,559 --> 02:29:14,600
has to do it because that will prove that we

2413
02:29:14,719 --> 02:29:17,680
are ready for it. If we go ahead and usurp

2414
02:29:18,399 --> 02:29:24,120
the land, we have not shown ourselves, you know, clean enough,

2415
02:29:24,879 --> 02:29:28,920
obedient enough, which was sort of the Pharisaic view as well.

2416
02:29:29,319 --> 02:29:31,280
You know, we need to follow the law very very

2417
02:29:31,440 --> 02:29:34,239
very strictly, and then we will be pure enough and

2418
02:29:34,319 --> 02:29:36,159
God will send the Messiah, He will chase out the

2419
02:29:36,280 --> 02:29:40,120
Romans and et cetera, et cetera, you know, And basically

2420
02:29:40,200 --> 02:29:42,600
the only Judaism that survived from those days is the

2421
02:29:43,879 --> 02:29:49,200
the Pharasaic form and then mutated into metesticized i would say,

2422
02:29:49,559 --> 02:29:53,920
into all manner of thought. But then you get this,

2423
02:29:54,239 --> 02:29:58,200
as you said, some cultural New York jew blond air

2424
02:30:00,040 --> 02:30:05,239
a tiny nose, you know, shouting of these people about

2425
02:30:05,280 --> 02:30:14,959
how they have this blood obligation to support the Zionism

2426
02:30:15,000 --> 02:30:18,319
and they're like, no, we're religious. We believe in this

2427
02:30:18,520 --> 02:30:22,079
religious interpretation, and it says God has to grant it

2428
02:30:22,159 --> 02:30:23,760
to us otherwise we don't get it.

2429
02:30:27,760 --> 02:30:30,600
Speaker 4: Jay, did you want to respond to the clip itself

2430
02:30:31,280 --> 02:30:33,280
and then go into your thing, because I want.

2431
02:30:34,959 --> 02:30:38,239
Speaker 5: It's just kind of a you know, confusing situation where

2432
02:30:39,040 --> 02:30:43,879
a lot of these different inter Jewish groups and sex

2433
02:30:44,000 --> 02:30:48,239
will kind of all have elements of truth in the

2434
02:30:48,319 --> 02:30:54,440
sense that, you know, Jews against Zionism are themselves committed to,

2435
02:30:54,879 --> 02:30:59,360
you know, certain interpretations of the Talmud, and like Posh said,

2436
02:30:59,440 --> 02:31:01,079
like they think it has to be done a certain

2437
02:31:01,120 --> 02:31:03,920
way before there's a restoration in the coming of the Messiah.

2438
02:31:05,719 --> 02:31:11,440
The other other strands, which are more secular and atheist,

2439
02:31:12,120 --> 02:31:14,120
like poj said, I mean, it makes no sense because

2440
02:31:14,120 --> 02:31:16,040
it's like, well, there is no God, but he gave

2441
02:31:16,120 --> 02:31:20,319
us this land, so it's like totally a tool of

2442
02:31:20,920 --> 02:31:25,200
of sort of secular powers. But Zionism you know, this

2443
02:31:25,360 --> 02:31:30,719
comes it becomes very useful for the British Empire. I'll

2444
02:31:30,760 --> 02:31:33,760
get into that maybe a little bit. But so there's

2445
02:31:34,079 --> 02:31:37,159
it's really complex in the in the way that like

2446
02:31:37,440 --> 02:31:39,840
there's a lot of different factors going into this, but

2447
02:31:40,520 --> 02:31:42,600
it just makes all of it really makes no sense

2448
02:31:43,319 --> 02:31:45,040
from any of these perspectives.

2449
02:31:44,520 --> 02:31:49,280
Speaker 4: Is right, right? Super confusing both the sides. From our view,

2450
02:31:49,360 --> 02:31:52,399
we go, oh, they're both very confused about this, but

2451
02:31:52,959 --> 02:31:55,319
it is connected to what we've been discussing, right, It

2452
02:31:55,399 --> 02:31:58,920
just doesn't come out of nowhere. The cultural blonde knows

2453
02:31:59,079 --> 02:32:03,200
job Ju was like screaming because she's arguing a cultural

2454
02:32:03,440 --> 02:32:08,920
trend view. The Orthodox is holding an ancient view and

2455
02:32:08,959 --> 02:32:11,040
they're trying to maintain it, and they have their own

2456
02:32:11,799 --> 02:32:14,600
unfolding of their of their religion that they think is

2457
02:32:14,639 --> 02:32:17,600
going to happen, and they're pinned against each other. And

2458
02:32:18,879 --> 02:32:22,600
from from your view, from this analysis, there's no way

2459
02:32:22,639 --> 02:32:24,760
to separate what we just saw. Is at least fair

2460
02:32:24,840 --> 02:32:26,959
to say there's no way to separate what we just

2461
02:32:27,040 --> 02:32:30,719
saw as a clip from dispensationalism, that this is like

2462
02:32:30,840 --> 02:32:32,760
a this is an effect of it. Would you say,

2463
02:32:34,559 --> 02:32:38,399
clearly an effect of dispensationalist view, even though they're not Christianity.

2464
02:32:39,840 --> 02:32:43,920
Speaker 5: It played a role in helping America warm up to

2465
02:32:44,079 --> 02:32:49,920
supporting what the Ralph Childs and others wanted to do

2466
02:32:50,040 --> 02:32:53,799
in the Middle East. Okay, in that regard, it played

2467
02:32:53,840 --> 02:32:57,159
a key role in getting it marshaling American the American

2468
02:32:57,280 --> 02:33:00,000
engine behind a lot of these moves.

2469
02:33:00,959 --> 02:33:08,040
Speaker 2: Natoonyahu said that Christian Zionism was instrumental in paving the

2470
02:33:08,200 --> 02:33:11,479
road towards this general let's call it Zionists.

2471
02:33:11,879 --> 02:33:15,680
Speaker 4: So we agree with one point five percent of Adam

2472
02:33:15,760 --> 02:33:19,520
Green's analysis zero point three.

2473
02:33:20,520 --> 02:33:26,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I now want to reject it just so

2474
02:33:26,399 --> 02:33:32,520
we're back to zero. No, obviously, but I think the

2475
02:33:32,799 --> 02:33:38,680
dispensationalism is more driven by its apocalypticism, and that was

2476
02:33:39,360 --> 02:33:42,479
appear to be very useful and very easy to We

2477
02:33:42,559 --> 02:33:47,000
don't need to talk about if it's organic now Okay,

2478
02:33:47,639 --> 02:33:51,520
nowadays you can trace it very easily to both intelligence

2479
02:33:51,600 --> 02:33:57,040
agencies and different types of funding. And that started obviously

2480
02:33:57,200 --> 02:34:02,799
with the start of the even the Moral Majority and

2481
02:34:03,120 --> 02:34:06,760
all of these groups that really pushed on things and

2482
02:34:07,120 --> 02:34:12,799
had this again this wind power of the Second World

2483
02:34:12,840 --> 02:34:21,799
War and events therein that really gave it legitimacy, not

2484
02:34:22,040 --> 02:34:25,559
just in religious circles, but even in secular circles where

2485
02:34:25,600 --> 02:34:27,520
they said, no, we just need a place for Jews

2486
02:34:27,559 --> 02:34:30,120
to go where they can be safe. You know. So

2487
02:34:31,760 --> 02:34:34,879
all of these strands, it's what's important is that they

2488
02:34:35,159 --> 02:34:39,600
coalesce into the idea of these people get this this

2489
02:34:39,799 --> 02:34:43,000
piece of land, whether you get it through oh just

2490
02:34:43,120 --> 02:34:46,520
to be safe, whether you get it through Christian Zionism,

2491
02:34:46,799 --> 02:34:50,719
to Jewish Zionism, to walk through whatever. What's important is

2492
02:34:50,799 --> 02:34:53,719
the outcome and what you need to say in the meantime.

2493
02:34:53,920 --> 02:34:56,559
Speaker 4: It just depends on Okay, so would the would the

2494
02:34:56,680 --> 02:35:04,760
clip that I played exist even without the apocalyptic dispensational

2495
02:35:05,280 --> 02:35:09,360
sort of let's call it chunks. It's like the chunks

2496
02:35:09,440 --> 02:35:12,120
is like what you put in the pan first onions

2497
02:35:12,159 --> 02:35:15,760
and stuff. It's like the base of the of the meal.

2498
02:35:16,520 --> 02:35:18,200
Do you think what what I just played would be

2499
02:35:18,280 --> 02:35:24,079
inevitable anyway without these kind of views affecting especially modern

2500
02:35:24,840 --> 02:35:27,159
Western American politics.

2501
02:35:26,920 --> 02:35:29,600
Speaker 5: I would say so, I think, yeah. I think a

2502
02:35:29,680 --> 02:35:32,840
lot of this stuff was already kind of baked into

2503
02:35:32,920 --> 02:35:39,799
the cake before America got sufficiently propaganda's with this stuff because.

2504
02:35:39,559 --> 02:35:42,840
Speaker 14: Okay, okay, yeah, I mean you know, Balfour Decoration and

2505
02:35:43,000 --> 02:35:47,079
establishment of Israel and all that is kind of already

2506
02:35:47,159 --> 02:35:49,799
going on by the British Empire, but they definitely wanted

2507
02:35:49,799 --> 02:35:52,520
to secure the supported American engine.

2508
02:35:53,040 --> 02:35:56,520
Speaker 4: Okay, got it, So I will retract. I will retract

2509
02:35:56,639 --> 02:36:00,559
that I'm making a clear distinction or connection between that clip.

2510
02:36:00,600 --> 02:36:03,159
I just thought that was to me, it seemed relevant.

2511
02:36:03,239 --> 02:36:06,200
It seemed to sort of embody the problems we're dealing with.

2512
02:36:07,200 --> 02:36:09,520
I think I thought it was linked to it. But

2513
02:36:09,639 --> 02:36:12,440
if if it's a case that that very instance could

2514
02:36:12,520 --> 02:36:17,920
exist very well without this this beginning process that were

2515
02:36:18,040 --> 02:36:19,760
sold constantly through.

2516
02:36:19,639 --> 02:36:22,079
Speaker 5: This, I think I think the analogy would be too.

2517
02:36:22,520 --> 02:36:26,079
So prior to all this, you already had the disputes

2518
02:36:26,120 --> 02:36:33,399
amongst Orthodox Jews, Reform Jews right and the Reform have

2519
02:36:33,520 --> 02:36:37,280
always kind of moved towards more atheistic agnostic type positions.

2520
02:36:38,479 --> 02:36:43,680
And then you've got multiple different sects amongst Orthodox Jews

2521
02:36:43,760 --> 02:36:48,559
following various rabbinical interpretations and pseudo messiahs. So they've had

2522
02:36:48,600 --> 02:36:52,799
a history of falling for various khan men, you know,

2523
02:36:53,040 --> 02:36:56,719
Rabbi whoever, and he was the real Messiah, and even

2524
02:36:56,799 --> 02:36:59,879
today a bunch of the of them believe Schneerson wasn't.

2525
02:37:00,520 --> 02:37:05,639
Speaker 2: So yeah, I believe I recently saw that it was

2526
02:37:05,680 --> 02:37:08,879
from and himself because they often use the title bail

2527
02:37:09,520 --> 02:37:14,319
because bail just means lord, like bail Shemptove and someone

2528
02:37:14,399 --> 02:37:19,600
the Jews breay to bail. But to the point about

2529
02:37:19,639 --> 02:37:23,239
the clip, the problem with your assertion in Jimbob is

2530
02:37:23,319 --> 02:37:28,280
that neither of those sides were thinking. Well, Darby said right.

2531
02:37:29,760 --> 02:37:33,120
And even again back to the New Testament times, you

2532
02:37:33,319 --> 02:37:37,120
had these You have the Pharisees, you had the Esses,

2533
02:37:37,200 --> 02:37:40,399
you had all types of like zealots, and you know

2534
02:37:40,920 --> 02:37:44,239
Scatari eye, which is where we get this carry out.

2535
02:37:44,719 --> 02:37:47,879
Jus carried it. But you had all of these different

2536
02:37:48,239 --> 02:37:51,440
interpretations of what needs to be done to get things

2537
02:37:51,479 --> 02:37:55,399
back in order. Right. The Pharisees thought, you need ritual purity.

2538
02:37:56,840 --> 02:38:01,719
This is where a lot of uh Christ's criticism towards

2539
02:38:01,760 --> 02:38:04,159
the Pharisees come from. You know, you will get a

2540
02:38:04,280 --> 02:38:07,000
tenth from your herb gardens, but then you will ignore

2541
02:38:07,040 --> 02:38:13,719
all sorts of things. The subdaces just completely hellenized. You know,

2542
02:38:13,840 --> 02:38:16,680
they reject there we accept the pentitoobe. They don't believe

2543
02:38:16,760 --> 02:38:19,639
the after life. The Pharisees famously do believe in the

2544
02:38:19,719 --> 02:38:23,680
afterlife because Maccabees. Then you've got the Essens who sort

2545
02:38:23,680 --> 02:38:25,760
of gave up on the whole temple thing, that go

2546
02:38:25,879 --> 02:38:29,760
out into the desert RD, so there is no unified thing.

2547
02:38:30,040 --> 02:38:36,479
And then after the fall Jerusalem again you might get

2548
02:38:36,760 --> 02:38:39,200
some level of unity because a lot of them, like

2549
02:38:40,000 --> 02:38:43,760
the sudase Is, basically relied on being keyholders to the temple.

2550
02:38:44,000 --> 02:38:46,639
That was that sort of power. Once you lose the temple,

2551
02:38:47,159 --> 02:38:52,280
you're pointless. And then the Pharisees, you know, yeah, go

2552
02:38:52,440 --> 02:38:55,399
out they have but even then it breaks into who

2553
02:38:55,479 --> 02:38:58,079
knows how many branches and people just you know, go

2554
02:38:58,239 --> 02:39:00,399
with your pick and choose rabbi.

2555
02:39:01,159 --> 02:39:03,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just I'm looking at the blonde woman in

2556
02:39:03,280 --> 02:39:07,440
the clip and going, what what could her view be

2557
02:39:07,600 --> 02:39:11,319
possibly derived from? If not this flawed sort of genetic

2558
02:39:11,639 --> 02:39:14,360
take that can be traced trauma.

2559
02:39:14,920 --> 02:39:18,280
Speaker 2: A lot of it is like we're persecuted all the time.

2560
02:39:19,280 --> 02:39:21,840
They want to make lampshades out of us, you know,

2561
02:39:22,000 --> 02:39:28,200
so enough of that will turn any people into just delusional.

2562
02:39:28,319 --> 02:39:30,719
Doesn't have to make sense, just needs to keep you safe.

2563
02:39:30,959 --> 02:39:32,959
Speaker 4: Right right, right. It could be it seems to be

2564
02:39:33,159 --> 02:39:38,680
like very culturally derived that like, she gets her identity

2565
02:39:38,799 --> 02:39:43,200
from whatever cultural propaganda she's getting, and it seems to

2566
02:39:43,239 --> 02:39:45,559
be I'm trying to make a link between what are

2567
02:39:45,559 --> 02:39:48,639
the culture, what's the cultural propaganda she's getting, and can

2568
02:39:48,680 --> 02:39:52,200
it be tracked back to this idea that you know

2569
02:39:52,959 --> 02:39:56,360
these the genetics is tied to the land, the genetics

2570
02:39:56,479 --> 02:40:00,360
is is the true or whatever that anyway, it doesn't

2571
02:40:00,520 --> 02:40:03,440
really matter, but I'm glad you guys distinguished that because

2572
02:40:03,920 --> 02:40:05,959
either way, I'm glad we've got to all watch that

2573
02:40:06,040 --> 02:40:12,239
clip together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jay, you sent this in

2574
02:40:12,319 --> 02:40:15,360
the link. Did you want to go off of this thing.

2575
02:40:15,319 --> 02:40:18,639
Speaker 5: Here or yeah? This is a kind of an unknown thing.

2576
02:40:18,680 --> 02:40:21,639
People don't really know about the Havara Agreement. But it's

2577
02:40:21,639 --> 02:40:24,719
a little later in the beginning stage of this, but

2578
02:40:25,200 --> 02:40:27,840
I'll try to summarize really quick what quickly says. Basically,

2579
02:40:28,559 --> 02:40:33,440
the British Empire was looking for models to have stable

2580
02:40:33,479 --> 02:40:37,559
Middle East colonies. Right, So Britain has a very powerful

2581
02:40:37,600 --> 02:40:40,159
empire at this time, late eighteen hundreds. They're looking for

2582
02:40:40,280 --> 02:40:43,680
different systems and structures that might work to stabilize it.

2583
02:40:44,040 --> 02:40:47,159
Amongst the British elite, they were pretty much divided you

2584
02:40:47,239 --> 02:40:49,840
had half of them who were very pro Arab, very

2585
02:40:49,920 --> 02:40:53,319
pro Muslim. Some of them even reportedly converted. Some of

2586
02:40:53,360 --> 02:40:58,159
the famous British spies, Kim Philby's dad supposedly became a Muslim.

2587
02:40:58,280 --> 02:40:59,920
Whether he really did or he was just being a spot,

2588
02:41:00,159 --> 02:41:04,959
I don't know. But they had a very robust Orientalist

2589
02:41:05,239 --> 02:41:09,079
structure which could learn the culture, master it, and then

2590
02:41:09,200 --> 02:41:12,360
rule it for the British Empire. The Middle East, however,

2591
02:41:12,600 --> 02:41:17,520
was so unstable, or so they said, you had constant

2592
02:41:17,559 --> 02:41:20,200
assassinations of leaders. They were looking for what would be

2593
02:41:20,280 --> 02:41:25,159
the most stable thing to put there, and so, as

2594
02:41:25,200 --> 02:41:28,799
we said, many of them favored Arabic type leaders in

2595
02:41:28,840 --> 02:41:31,959
government there. They were pro Palestinian or as we say

2596
02:41:32,040 --> 02:41:35,680
now pro Palestinian. But you also had a faction under

2597
02:41:36,000 --> 02:41:41,360
Lord Ralph Child who were wanted to establish a specifically

2598
02:41:41,479 --> 02:41:45,879
Zion estate. And this was controversial because you already had

2599
02:41:45,959 --> 02:41:47,840
quite a few people who were already there who were

2600
02:41:48,239 --> 02:41:52,719
you know, Arab Christian and Arab Muslim obviously.

2601
02:41:53,959 --> 02:41:54,040
Speaker 2: So.

2602
02:41:57,239 --> 02:41:59,760
Speaker 5: You get this decision on the part of the British

2603
02:41:59,840 --> 02:42:03,440
to set up essentially a Zion estate. This is the

2604
02:42:03,719 --> 02:42:08,280
British mandate for Palestine, and it was motivated by a

2605
02:42:08,360 --> 02:42:14,159
lot of the world Zionist Congress, the Jewish agency. This

2606
02:42:14,280 --> 02:42:17,000
is known as the British Mandate for Israel, which ended

2607
02:42:17,040 --> 02:42:22,399
in nineteen forty eight. Because after the UK Mandate you

2608
02:42:22,559 --> 02:42:28,239
got essentially the decision that Jews needed to migrate there.

2609
02:42:29,520 --> 02:42:32,760
Very controversial and it's almost like maybe they wanted this

2610
02:42:32,959 --> 02:42:37,440
to cause this division there, right, because what happens is

2611
02:42:37,479 --> 02:42:42,200
that the early Army of Israel is created out of

2612
02:42:42,399 --> 02:42:46,600
what's called the Haganah, and that's originally the Stern Gang.

2613
02:42:47,120 --> 02:42:49,479
The Stern Gang was kind of an organized crime syndicate

2614
02:42:49,719 --> 02:42:53,920
that functioned like the early protectors you could say, of

2615
02:42:54,000 --> 02:42:58,959
the Jews in Israel at this time, and they evolved

2616
02:42:59,000 --> 02:43:04,680
into becoming as a proto intelligence agency an army. They're

2617
02:43:04,760 --> 02:43:10,239
behind the famous assassination of one of the lords of

2618
02:43:10,280 --> 02:43:14,120
the United Nations because of his policies. Lord Moyne was

2619
02:43:14,159 --> 02:43:19,239
assassinated by the Urgun Gang in nineteen forty four, and

2620
02:43:19,399 --> 02:43:25,079
then they famously domb the King David Hotel. This is

2621
02:43:25,159 --> 02:43:27,799
because now the Jews are getting tired of the British

2622
02:43:28,200 --> 02:43:32,159
rule in Israel and in Jerusalem, they want to throw

2623
02:43:32,280 --> 02:43:35,319
that off. Then it gets even more complicated, because this

2624
02:43:35,600 --> 02:43:39,959
is the crazy part. From the British Empire perspective. They

2625
02:43:40,079 --> 02:43:44,719
wanted to manipulate and rule. Then we get this, check

2626
02:43:44,799 --> 02:43:47,280
this out. During the years of nineteen forty five to

2627
02:43:47,360 --> 02:43:49,159
nineteen forty eight, the Jewish Agency sought to establish the

2628
02:43:49,200 --> 02:43:51,680
Jewish State and Palis and removed the British restrictions on

2629
02:43:51,799 --> 02:43:55,079
Jewish immigration. So Jews Brits were now putting restrictions on

2630
02:43:55,159 --> 02:43:57,879
who could go there when previously they want them there.

2631
02:43:58,680 --> 02:44:01,000
These were resisted not only because of Britain's desires to

2632
02:44:01,079 --> 02:44:04,719
maintain amicable relationship with the Arabs, but also from the

2633
02:44:04,760 --> 02:44:08,600
obvious lack of simply for Zionist calls within the British government.

2634
02:44:08,680 --> 02:44:10,760
So the Labor Party comes to power in nineteen forty five,

2635
02:44:10,840 --> 02:44:13,559
and because the Labor Party were Fabian socialists, they actually

2636
02:44:13,799 --> 02:44:17,799
tended to be pro pro Islam and pro Arab. The

2637
02:44:17,920 --> 02:44:20,760
immediate demand for the admission of one hundred thousand Jewish

2638
02:44:20,760 --> 02:44:24,159
refugees from Europe was rejected by the British and efforts

2639
02:44:24,200 --> 02:44:27,879
to smuggle some of these in gave rise to conditions

2640
02:44:27,920 --> 02:44:31,600
of quasi warfare between British and Zionist groups. The Arab

2641
02:44:31,719 --> 02:44:35,840
League of the neighboring Arab States, which had formed underneath

2642
02:44:35,879 --> 02:44:38,159
British sponsorship in nineteen forty five, took as the chief

2643
02:44:38,159 --> 02:44:41,479
aimed the destruction of the Zionists and to block Jewish immigration.

2644
02:44:41,920 --> 02:44:45,200
When the Labor government in June refused Zionists requests for

2645
02:44:45,239 --> 02:44:47,719
admission of one hundred thousand Sewish refugees and instead sought

2646
02:44:47,799 --> 02:44:51,079
to arrest members of the Jewish agency, the Irgun and

2647
02:44:51,200 --> 02:44:54,959
reprisal blew up the British headquarters known as the King

2648
02:44:55,040 --> 02:44:58,360
David Hotel in Jerusalem and got rid of one hundred people.

2649
02:44:58,479 --> 02:45:03,600
The World Zonis Congress elected Peter's figure who were supposedly moderate,

2650
02:45:03,799 --> 02:45:07,440
like Heim Weizmann and David Ben Gurion. The former won

2651
02:45:07,479 --> 02:45:10,600
the election, and then you got the support for British

2652
02:45:10,639 --> 02:45:15,760
mindate from the United States, which was unobtainable since Washington

2653
02:45:15,840 --> 02:45:19,399
generally favored the Jewish side, while the British favored typically

2654
02:45:19,440 --> 02:45:22,719
the Arab side. Thus, death sentences were carried out on

2655
02:45:22,959 --> 02:45:26,799
the various Jewish terror groups, and in nineteen forty seven

2656
02:45:26,840 --> 02:45:28,920
the British sought to escape the situation by appealing to

2657
02:45:28,959 --> 02:45:34,120
the United Nations, and basically they just handed this over

2658
02:45:34,239 --> 02:45:38,520
to the Israeli government. So then Ben Gurion steps into

2659
02:45:38,559 --> 02:45:46,360
power in nineteen forty eight as the first first President.

2660
02:45:46,399 --> 02:45:50,120
I guess you could say prime minister. September twentieth, the

2661
02:45:50,200 --> 02:45:53,879
Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was the chief Muslim religious leader

2662
02:45:53,879 --> 02:45:56,840
of the want and collaborator with Tony mustache Man, and

2663
02:45:56,879 --> 02:46:00,120
he proclaimed an Arab government for all of Palestine. It's

2664
02:46:00,120 --> 02:46:02,000
funny is that he's a British intelligence agent. He's the

2665
02:46:02,040 --> 02:46:06,000
guy that looks like exactly like Ryan Gosling. You should

2666
02:46:06,479 --> 02:46:09,239
yeah that I wanted to mention that he's an m

2667
02:46:09,319 --> 02:46:12,680
I six operative and he's I didn't know that, the

2668
02:46:12,760 --> 02:46:16,399
Grand Moftie of Jerusalem. Yeah, he's a British intelligence operative

2669
02:46:18,120 --> 02:46:20,319
and he's working together with Tony mustache Man. So basically,

2670
02:46:20,360 --> 02:46:22,200
the British are always trying to play both sides of everything,

2671
02:46:22,879 --> 02:46:26,760
and I seems to not really work out here, and

2672
02:46:26,879 --> 02:46:29,639
so you end up getting the through a bunch of

2673
02:46:29,840 --> 02:46:33,920
E R R O R the establishment of a Zionist

2674
02:46:33,959 --> 02:46:39,000
regime which is not explicitly religious, but utilizes the religious

2675
02:46:39,319 --> 02:46:42,440
imagery and ideology to sort of bolster support. So that's

2676
02:46:42,479 --> 02:46:46,600
the irony here is that Christian Zionists in America support

2677
02:46:46,639 --> 02:46:50,760
all these people who are essentially intelligence operatives and organized

2678
02:46:50,799 --> 02:46:53,239
crime people in nineteen forty eight who don't believe anything

2679
02:46:53,280 --> 02:46:53,920
religious at all.

2680
02:46:56,440 --> 02:47:00,680
Speaker 4: Wow, you ain't kidding, Ili, that's funny.

2681
02:47:01,399 --> 02:47:01,639
Speaker 2: Wow.

2682
02:47:02,440 --> 02:47:05,639
Speaker 4: The truthers are going to lose their The truthers are

2683
02:47:05,639 --> 02:47:11,520
going to lose their ship. That the body double you know, Ah, okay.

2684
02:47:11,360 --> 02:47:16,239
Speaker 2: Some apparently has had many doupled gangas throughout history. But

2685
02:47:16,719 --> 02:47:19,600
this person is rather peculiar in his function, in his

2686
02:47:19,760 --> 02:47:23,959
cooperation with a man whose mustache was even tinier than mine.

2687
02:47:24,040 --> 02:47:25,280
And that's right.

2688
02:47:25,920 --> 02:47:29,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, that takes a lot, so Jay, based on what

2689
02:47:29,440 --> 02:47:32,719
you laid out here and the the agreement that we

2690
02:47:32,799 --> 02:47:34,360
went over a little bit there that we had on

2691
02:47:34,440 --> 02:47:39,239
the screen, a lot of Americans who are maybe completely

2692
02:47:39,319 --> 02:47:43,639
unaware of the history just we went over it with

2693
02:47:44,159 --> 02:47:47,000
dispensationalism and how it then plays into sort of the

2694
02:47:47,120 --> 02:47:51,159
narrative of geopolitics in America especially. They're unaware of it,

2695
02:47:51,319 --> 02:47:54,280
but they're participating in it. So do you think that

2696
02:47:55,680 --> 02:48:00,760
it's it's useless or feudile to even uh educate those

2697
02:48:00,959 --> 02:48:05,360
kinds of people who just have this kind of impulsive loyalty.

2698
02:48:07,040 --> 02:48:10,040
I'll look at Ryan and Cosling with little Musla at that. Yeah,

2699
02:48:10,040 --> 02:48:11,600
they're talking about tea way.

2700
02:48:11,879 --> 02:48:14,479
Speaker 5: You're interested in a book that covers the how he

2701
02:48:14,840 --> 02:48:19,079
was a British intelligence it's fy on Ingolf's book Lost

2702
02:48:19,120 --> 02:48:20,680
Headgeam on whom the Gods Would Destroy.

2703
02:48:20,760 --> 02:48:23,159
Speaker 2: He's basically just details. There's an old.

2704
02:48:23,120 --> 02:48:26,479
Speaker 5: Chapter on Graham Moved as a British intelligence operator.

2705
02:48:26,559 --> 02:48:28,840
Speaker 4: But sorry, go ahead, No, I was going to say, like,

2706
02:48:28,920 --> 02:48:31,280
what's the what's the methodology?

2707
02:48:31,399 --> 02:48:31,559
Speaker 2: Now?

2708
02:48:31,799 --> 02:48:34,520
Speaker 4: Like obviously doing a stream like this or anything like

2709
02:48:34,600 --> 02:48:39,200
it that sort of sheds light on the summary of

2710
02:48:40,120 --> 02:48:45,120
this view and how it plays into modern politics. I

2711
02:48:45,239 --> 02:48:47,719
feel like we're we're in an era where people who

2712
02:48:47,840 --> 02:48:52,280
take this immediate, impulsive loyalty to Israel in the political arena,

2713
02:48:52,600 --> 02:48:55,479
they're not going to really care what kind of history

2714
02:48:55,520 --> 02:48:57,639
you bring up, right, So it's like, I guess what

2715
02:48:57,799 --> 02:49:00,959
my question is, like us as people who talk about

2716
02:49:01,000 --> 02:49:04,600
this stuff and you know, analyze it and put it

2717
02:49:04,680 --> 02:49:09,159
into its proper categories, is it useless? I mean, not

2718
02:49:09,280 --> 02:49:12,639
to blackpill, but like, what is our duty here? As

2719
02:49:12,680 --> 02:49:15,000
far as like revealing, I think it needs to be

2720
02:49:15,079 --> 02:49:15,760
talked more.

2721
02:49:16,000 --> 02:49:19,159
Speaker 5: The key is to understand. To note, I'm not saying

2722
02:49:19,200 --> 02:49:21,319
you this, but do not hate groups of people in

2723
02:49:21,440 --> 02:49:24,959
collectives because people are raised in things and people are

2724
02:49:25,120 --> 02:49:28,120
in auction with things that are And I was thinking

2725
02:49:28,120 --> 02:49:31,399
about this the more I was, you know, ruminating on

2726
02:49:31,479 --> 02:49:34,920
the Muslim debate from last night, like people are sort

2727
02:49:34,920 --> 02:49:38,840
of imprisoned, you know, in these systems, and the systems

2728
02:49:39,239 --> 02:49:41,959
are not going to make you happy, you know what

2729
02:49:42,000 --> 02:49:44,920
I mean. They don't provide what they claim to provide.

2730
02:49:45,239 --> 02:49:47,319
So I see a lot of the people being manipulated,

2731
02:49:47,920 --> 02:49:50,440
you know, the one hundred thousand Jews that we're trying

2732
02:49:50,520 --> 02:49:53,520
to migrate, they were supposed to migrate.

2733
02:49:54,440 --> 02:49:54,600
Speaker 2: You know.

2734
02:49:54,760 --> 02:49:59,479
Speaker 5: It's sort of like refugees are geopolitical tools on the chessboard,

2735
02:50:00,000 --> 02:50:02,399
and so we should feel sorry for the people. But

2736
02:50:02,479 --> 02:50:06,120
at the same time, like for example, Muslim refugees, like

2737
02:50:06,159 --> 02:50:09,959
they're also being used. So there's no easy answers. I

2738
02:50:10,040 --> 02:50:12,840
think that the more that we do understand the historical

2739
02:50:13,000 --> 02:50:15,319
nuances of the situation, we have to try to be

2740
02:50:15,520 --> 02:50:19,319
compassionate and concerned for people. Not that you guys aren't,

2741
02:50:19,360 --> 02:50:22,680
but there's a reactionary tendency right where people are just like, oh,

2742
02:50:23,079 --> 02:50:26,159
it's all this group, Oh it's all that group, you know,

2743
02:50:26,440 --> 02:50:29,799
I mean, these people are pawns, they're tools, they're used.

2744
02:50:29,920 --> 02:50:36,040
I think that the Ralph Child group utilizes these people

2745
02:50:36,879 --> 02:50:39,600
that they I don't know that they really believe the religion,

2746
02:50:40,319 --> 02:50:41,920
and I think I see it as kind of like

2747
02:50:42,000 --> 02:50:44,959
a tool that they use to control people, much like

2748
02:50:45,079 --> 02:50:48,799
a lot of Muslim caliphs probably didn't believe the religion,

2749
02:50:48,840 --> 02:50:51,280
but they use it as a tool to you know,

2750
02:50:51,840 --> 02:50:55,200
energize armies and so forth, to loot and plumber. I

2751
02:50:55,200 --> 02:50:57,440
mean Mohammed seems to have done that, right, So there's

2752
02:50:57,479 --> 02:51:02,280
a pattern of using ideologies for these geopolitical ends. So

2753
02:51:02,319 --> 02:51:04,239
I wouldn't say it's black pilling. I would just say

2754
02:51:04,239 --> 02:51:10,680
it's more like understanding the nuances of the situation. And

2755
02:51:10,840 --> 02:51:14,879
it's not always or totally one person's fault. But between

2756
02:51:14,920 --> 02:51:16,680
the two people debating that we saw a minute ago

2757
02:51:16,719 --> 02:51:19,440
and screaming like they're both kind of goofy.

2758
02:51:20,040 --> 02:51:25,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because we mustn't. I rail against abstractions all

2759
02:51:25,120 --> 02:51:29,200
the time, because the problem with abstractions, as I say,

2760
02:51:29,840 --> 02:51:33,520
it's a common phrase, abstraction is subtraction. You need to

2761
02:51:34,120 --> 02:51:37,639
take out a lot of peculiarities in order to have

2762
02:51:37,840 --> 02:51:41,399
it as some type of abstract notion, and we tend

2763
02:51:41,479 --> 02:51:45,040
to forget that these are human beings. If you're born,

2764
02:51:45,520 --> 02:51:50,760
for example, into Islam, your family is Muslim, so you're

2765
02:51:50,799 --> 02:51:55,600
going to have an innate, you know, desire to defend

2766
02:51:55,760 --> 02:52:00,319
Islam because no matter how it's not no matter. But

2767
02:52:01,840 --> 02:52:04,360
when people tell you, oh, Muhammad was this, who we

2768
02:52:04,440 --> 02:52:07,559
did that? And this is false? That is false. A

2769
02:52:07,680 --> 02:52:10,760
lot of their thinking is, my family can't possibly be

2770
02:52:10,920 --> 02:52:14,079
supporting this guy. My father is a great guy, my

2771
02:52:14,200 --> 02:52:17,319
friends are great, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So

2772
02:52:17,719 --> 02:52:21,040
it's a human thing. It's not input out, but they're

2773
02:52:21,120 --> 02:52:25,239
not machines. And good thing that they're not machines. Those

2774
02:52:25,280 --> 02:52:28,799
who do decide to convert or even abandon Islam take

2775
02:52:28,920 --> 02:52:35,399
massive risks. The families are put at risk. So with

2776
02:52:36,239 --> 02:52:40,719
the clip that we saw earlier, right, these people grow

2777
02:52:40,840 --> 02:52:44,959
up with is the I grew up. I'm cradle orthodox right,

2778
02:52:45,120 --> 02:52:48,040
and a lot of things that were blind spots for

2779
02:52:48,159 --> 02:52:51,159
me because it just that's how it is. You know,

2780
02:52:51,399 --> 02:52:53,719
when people ask me, you know, why do you pray

2781
02:52:53,799 --> 02:52:57,200
to saints? You know, I know, because they're awesome thing

2782
02:52:58,959 --> 02:53:02,079
and they help you out right, But then you have

2783
02:53:02,200 --> 02:53:05,000
to go and study the theology. Most people do it

2784
02:53:06,200 --> 02:53:12,120
because pure inertia. Others like Sneaker or someone might be

2785
02:53:12,440 --> 02:53:20,000
just grifters, but might simply be completely demoralized by the

2786
02:53:20,120 --> 02:53:24,319
state of the world and they're looking for refuge. And

2787
02:53:25,520 --> 02:53:28,920
if your idea of Islam is it's like Christianity but

2788
02:53:29,079 --> 02:53:33,200
hasn't been you know, wimpy, and you know, you get

2789
02:53:33,239 --> 02:53:35,840
four wives instead of one, and it's like no trinity

2790
02:53:35,920 --> 02:53:39,520
and that's basically the difference. And we go to the

2791
02:53:39,600 --> 02:53:42,680
mosque on Friday, right, we don't go to church on Sunday.

2792
02:53:42,920 --> 02:53:45,840
And that's basically it. You know, you go for it,

2793
02:53:46,760 --> 02:53:52,639
and you know, the Islam is a very pr oriented religion,

2794
02:53:53,280 --> 02:53:59,879
so they organically basically go for praising you. Anytime you

2795
02:54:00,159 --> 02:54:01,719
say anything nice about Islam.

2796
02:54:02,280 --> 02:54:04,920
Speaker 4: If you convert, they have you right on their they

2797
02:54:04,959 --> 02:54:06,719
have you right on their podcast immediately.

2798
02:54:07,079 --> 02:54:08,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah.

2799
02:54:09,079 --> 02:54:11,040
Speaker 5: It's like a bad tist, but like you know, the

2800
02:54:11,079 --> 02:54:13,319
bad start. You can like say the Sinner's prayer and

2801
02:54:13,399 --> 02:54:15,840
then like you're giving the test you're giving your testimony

2802
02:54:15,840 --> 02:54:16,959
and preaching next Wednesday.

2803
02:54:17,200 --> 02:54:19,399
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, totally. It's like it's like brigger you that

2804
02:54:19,639 --> 02:54:23,639
any any leftist who says anything in Hollywood, remotely classical liberal,

2805
02:54:23,719 --> 02:54:26,159
they slap them on an orange and blue meal immediately,

2806
02:54:26,399 --> 02:54:26,559
you know.

2807
02:54:26,879 --> 02:54:32,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. I had to watch Michael Knowle's interview

2808
02:54:32,280 --> 02:54:36,719
Ryan Long, who's just a comedian, he's goofy, he's not

2809
02:54:36,840 --> 02:54:40,440
a political activist, and I had to watch it because

2810
02:54:41,079 --> 02:54:44,319
I was expecting every single thing that Ryan Long says

2811
02:54:45,159 --> 02:54:47,280
it was going to be, well, you knew the left.

2812
02:54:47,600 --> 02:54:52,200
Speaker 4: You know, the left is the bad, the real bad.

2813
02:54:52,319 --> 02:54:56,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and that's exactly what happened. But the problem

2814
02:54:56,280 --> 02:54:58,799
is that Ryan Loong is so a political that basically

2815
02:54:58,799 --> 02:55:01,799
anytime he said, well, you know, the left does this,

2816
02:55:02,079 --> 02:55:05,840
but the conservatives, yeah, but sort of those the bush eras,

2817
02:55:05,879 --> 02:55:09,520
so that's supped, you know, and you can't get it.

2818
02:55:09,600 --> 02:55:14,079
But these people are so ideologically obsessed that they have

2819
02:55:14,319 --> 02:55:20,719
to shape anything that's even remotely approbatory of that position

2820
02:55:22,520 --> 02:55:26,040
into like a confirmation. And what I like to say

2821
02:55:26,159 --> 02:55:31,360
is it's winning either way. There's even a higher level

2822
02:55:31,399 --> 02:55:36,840
of that when if let's say a child agrees with

2823
02:55:36,959 --> 02:55:40,440
your position, it's even a child sees that this is correct.

2824
02:55:40,799 --> 02:55:43,639
If a child agrees with the opposing position, only a

2825
02:55:43,799 --> 02:55:47,479
child could agree with that, you know, it's just rhetorical flips.

2826
02:55:49,000 --> 02:55:52,680
There's nothing to it. And I'm afraid that because we're

2827
02:55:52,719 --> 02:55:57,719
so abstract, we're so detached from human life, and technology

2828
02:55:57,760 --> 02:56:02,040
has made that very very possible and very pronounced. We

2829
02:56:02,280 --> 02:56:07,639
just see people as as as I don't know data points.

2830
02:56:08,719 --> 02:56:12,360
It's very stalin Esque, you know. Deaths and millions is

2831
02:56:12,360 --> 02:56:16,120
a statistic. Likewise, with conversion, if a friend of yours

2832
02:56:16,319 --> 02:56:19,520
converts to Orthodoxy, youre great. But if a million people

2833
02:56:19,600 --> 02:56:25,559
convert to Catholicism is like it happens, and it's humanizing.

2834
02:56:25,719 --> 02:56:28,600
And as far as the approach to all of this,

2835
02:56:29,959 --> 02:56:36,639
my suggestion is the strength of Protestantism is that it's

2836
02:56:36,760 --> 02:56:42,920
so sloganieri, it's so short and snappy, you know.

2837
02:56:43,040 --> 02:56:45,000
Speaker 5: That's what Daniel tried to argue at the beginning of

2838
02:56:45,000 --> 02:56:48,479
the debate last night was look, Islam is simple, it's easy,

2839
02:56:48,559 --> 02:56:50,719
It's got four lines, so it's got to be clear

2840
02:56:50,760 --> 02:56:51,040
and true.

2841
02:56:51,079 --> 02:56:57,360
Speaker 2: That's what no. So my suggestion is just try to

2842
02:56:57,840 --> 02:57:01,079
make short arguments like I gave the one with why

2843
02:57:01,280 --> 02:57:03,760
is if Christ rules for a thousand years, why is

2844
02:57:04,920 --> 02:57:08,159
in the future right he establishes a thousand years of

2845
02:57:08,639 --> 02:57:13,879
just pure haven on earth. This kingdom and then loosens

2846
02:57:13,959 --> 02:57:15,520
up the devil at the end of it was the

2847
02:57:15,559 --> 02:57:19,159
point at that with our expectations, like we're in the

2848
02:57:19,280 --> 02:57:23,280
millennium and when the end is coming, you know, the

2849
02:57:23,360 --> 02:57:27,399
reigns of Satan are loocidbit makes perfect sense. So that

2850
02:57:27,680 --> 02:57:31,399
may be something you need to fight to them with snippets. Unfortunately,

2851
02:57:31,559 --> 02:57:35,840
because the moment you use more than five sentences, all

2852
02:57:35,920 --> 02:57:38,440
of a sudden, that's not that's not.

2853
02:57:38,600 --> 02:57:44,799
Speaker 5: That's philosophy, Like like Sam's really good, for example, when

2854
02:57:44,840 --> 02:57:46,959
he debates the Muslims in like because he's done it

2855
02:57:47,040 --> 02:57:49,040
for so many years and so many times, Like he

2856
02:57:49,200 --> 02:57:54,120
knows like three sentences right of how to spit out

2857
02:57:54,239 --> 02:57:57,040
like a problem for the Muslims within like dary sentences.

2858
02:57:57,079 --> 02:57:57,959
So he's really good at that.

2859
02:57:59,719 --> 02:58:02,159
Speaker 4: I want to point out that in our assessment of

2860
02:58:02,239 --> 02:58:09,000
the dispensationalist view, its perversion of herma Inous in scripture,

2861
02:58:09,280 --> 02:58:12,760
and its implications of policy, the reason I came, I

2862
02:58:12,879 --> 02:58:16,559
asked us all here is is saying, like asking the question, well,

2863
02:58:16,559 --> 02:58:19,520
what should we do? How do we is it more folders?

2864
02:58:19,719 --> 02:58:19,840
Speaker 5: Right?

2865
02:58:19,920 --> 02:58:22,159
Speaker 4: Do we show more folders and reveal the truth of it?

2866
02:58:22,719 --> 02:58:25,440
And I want to make this distinction that like if

2867
02:58:25,520 --> 02:58:30,079
you use the exposing dispensationalism and it's all you know,

2868
02:58:30,200 --> 02:58:32,879
the names and you know the bagel people, and you know,

2869
02:58:33,120 --> 02:58:36,520
you know, properly show people, wake people up, you know,

2870
02:58:36,559 --> 02:58:38,719
this kind of truth or take it seems to me

2871
02:58:38,840 --> 02:58:42,920
it's all useless if you're not bringing people to the church.

2872
02:58:43,079 --> 02:58:45,280
And so in the end, it's like if we're using

2873
02:58:45,319 --> 02:58:49,319
it for a cultural uh you know, sort of a

2874
02:58:49,399 --> 02:58:53,840
cultural trending use for it, we're using it as like technology.

2875
02:58:54,239 --> 02:58:57,280
We're really just participating the same game. And so you know,

2876
02:58:57,520 --> 02:58:59,639
that's why I made sure to let people know, well

2877
02:58:59,639 --> 02:59:01,799
it's not a blackpill. To look at the stuff and

2878
02:59:01,920 --> 02:59:04,799
properly examine it. But the purpose of it isn't so

2879
02:59:04,959 --> 02:59:06,760
that you can then use it for some sort of

2880
02:59:06,879 --> 02:59:09,440
left right dialectic like oh and to get more people

2881
02:59:09,479 --> 02:59:14,360
to understand this inside yeah, yeah, more liberalism, right. So

2882
02:59:14,559 --> 02:59:17,000
that's that's what that's my sentiment here, is that the

2883
02:59:17,120 --> 02:59:20,479
purpose is to properly categorize things. If you're going to

2884
02:59:20,520 --> 02:59:23,440
appeal to scripture Christianity, this is what it looks like

2885
02:59:23,520 --> 02:59:26,520
to pervert it in some sort of notion towards the

2886
02:59:26,600 --> 02:59:28,959
future that you want to craft in your own view,

2887
02:59:29,799 --> 02:59:32,799
I feel like that's what Darby did that he really

2888
02:59:32,920 --> 02:59:37,159
perverted and uh and turned scripture and the practice and

2889
02:59:37,239 --> 02:59:41,120
the faith into some sort of technology toward a end goal.

2890
02:59:41,680 --> 02:59:44,280
And from our view, we don't know when that end

2891
02:59:44,360 --> 02:59:46,440
goal is and we couldn't claim that, and so our

2892
02:59:46,559 --> 02:59:50,040
job is to practice, bring people into the church and

2893
02:59:50,399 --> 02:59:54,440
and uh, and it's a much more uh, you know,

2894
02:59:54,559 --> 02:59:57,159
we're we're in humility. I mean that view is in

2895
02:59:57,360 --> 03:00:01,799
like sort of conquering dominate, like getting the point across.

2896
03:00:02,360 --> 03:00:04,520
And I know people in the chat are frustrated, not

2897
03:00:04,639 --> 03:00:07,879
in this chat, but just generally speaking, they want something done.

2898
03:00:08,120 --> 03:00:09,840
We're in a culture. We're in a culture our war.

2899
03:00:09,959 --> 03:00:12,440
We got to fix this. You know, everybody's fighting this

2900
03:00:12,600 --> 03:00:15,719
kind of war. And it's it's kind of difficult to

2901
03:00:15,840 --> 03:00:21,319
balance your theological view and practice with some sort of

2902
03:00:21,520 --> 03:00:23,520
like utility in the world that you're trying to get

2903
03:00:23,600 --> 03:00:25,520
something done and plant your flag. And I know it's

2904
03:00:25,559 --> 03:00:29,120
difficult for people because they want those results. And I

2905
03:00:29,159 --> 03:00:30,399
don't know if you guys want to add on that,

2906
03:00:30,559 --> 03:00:33,520
but how to balance this kind of notion of like

2907
03:00:33,719 --> 03:00:36,559
getting results in your culture and winning the cultural war

2908
03:00:36,639 --> 03:00:39,920
and planting the flag of victory versus well, that might

2909
03:00:40,040 --> 03:00:44,079
not happen. You might have to actually practice Christianity when

2910
03:00:44,120 --> 03:00:46,600
you're losing your whole life. So I mean just want

2911
03:00:46,600 --> 03:00:47,440
to remind people of that.

2912
03:00:50,120 --> 03:00:53,399
Speaker 2: It mustn't be confused with some type of crypto prosperity

2913
03:00:53,479 --> 03:00:56,399
gospel that if you're doing the right things, things will

2914
03:00:56,479 --> 03:01:01,559
go well in a material sense, Tomato, there's there's absolutely

2915
03:01:01,719 --> 03:01:05,120
no guarantee of it. In fact, you should expect things

2916
03:01:05,200 --> 03:01:10,840
to go poor loose. Yes, I also keep saying, don't

2917
03:01:10,959 --> 03:01:13,920
let things you're you're for be a function of things

2918
03:01:13,959 --> 03:01:18,920
you're against. So don't oppose dispensationalism because you're against Israel.

2919
03:01:20,239 --> 03:01:24,680
That's that's not a good, that's foundation if you want

2920
03:01:24,760 --> 03:01:28,319
to support Israel because oh it's a counterbalance to Islam,

2921
03:01:28,559 --> 03:01:32,120
it's the only democracy in the Middle East, whatever you want.

2922
03:01:32,799 --> 03:01:37,000
You know, my biggest contention with it is that it's

2923
03:01:37,840 --> 03:01:42,719
not Christian. It's it's not what the Church teaches, it's

2924
03:01:42,760 --> 03:01:47,719
not biblical, it's it's heresy. That's my because and I

2925
03:01:48,399 --> 03:01:53,120
am against heresy because I'm for Orthodoxy. And you can

2926
03:01:53,200 --> 03:01:59,360
twist yourself into so many pretzels or bagels. Although they're

2927
03:01:59,399 --> 03:02:04,600
not twisted. You can loop yourself in so many But

2928
03:02:06,719 --> 03:02:10,520
because you're against something, you know, oh, I'm against communism,

2929
03:02:10,600 --> 03:02:14,319
so I'm going to the Bible wants free markets and

2930
03:02:15,040 --> 03:02:19,120
load taxes and gun rights like Okay, if you believe

2931
03:02:19,159 --> 03:02:22,639
the Bible supports that, don't tell me because it's against communism.

2932
03:02:23,040 --> 03:02:26,920
Mm hm right. That you can't have these negative things

2933
03:02:27,000 --> 03:02:32,799
because they are also very easily manipulated by surreptitious actors.

2934
03:02:34,479 --> 03:02:36,959
They see you or against something, so they'll just you

2935
03:02:37,040 --> 03:02:41,719
know what I How I like to illustrate it is

2936
03:02:41,760 --> 03:02:44,120
if you're going to do the opposite of what I say,

2937
03:02:45,159 --> 03:02:46,879
I just tell you to do the opposite of what

2938
03:02:47,000 --> 03:02:49,760
I want, and then you do the opposite, and you're

2939
03:02:49,799 --> 03:02:51,760
again doing what I want you to do. This is

2940
03:02:51,840 --> 03:02:58,680
why everyone who's the names, et cetera. It's so incomplete,

2941
03:02:58,959 --> 03:03:03,719
because people actually have to live their lives. You can't

2942
03:03:04,799 --> 03:03:07,760
and even most people don't care. But you can't have

2943
03:03:07,959 --> 03:03:14,479
this revolutionary opinion or movement succeed because a lot of

2944
03:03:14,639 --> 03:03:19,000
revolutionary thinking is only bound together by the opposition towards

2945
03:03:19,280 --> 03:03:23,440
a system. The problem is, if the revolution succeeds, then

2946
03:03:23,479 --> 03:03:26,280
you have to go into the affirmative. Yeah, and then

2947
03:03:26,319 --> 03:03:28,440
it turns out we all disagree and then they start

2948
03:03:28,719 --> 03:03:30,319
slaughtering each other. Yeah.

2949
03:03:30,479 --> 03:03:32,600
Speaker 5: In fact, that the reason I wrote that Havara agreement,

2950
03:03:32,639 --> 03:03:34,719
if you know about I forgot to mention this is

2951
03:03:34,760 --> 03:03:38,159
that in Tragy and Hope quickly speaks as if the

2952
03:03:38,239 --> 03:03:40,719
elite kind of wanted world War one and World War two,

2953
03:03:41,719 --> 03:03:43,959
and so that they have multiple reasons as to why,

2954
03:03:44,319 --> 03:03:47,680
and that agreement shows. One reason is that it allowed

2955
03:03:47,799 --> 03:03:51,040
for what's happening in the thirties and forties in the

2956
03:03:51,079 --> 03:03:54,920
Middle East, and not everything necessarily went totally according to plan.

2957
03:03:55,120 --> 03:03:57,719
But you know, we couldn't be here without where we

2958
03:03:57,799 --> 03:03:59,639
are now without world War One and World War two.

2959
03:04:00,280 --> 03:04:04,680
So certain entities wanted World War one and World War two.

2960
03:04:04,840 --> 03:04:09,200
So anyway, that's partly what what that explanation with Havaro

2961
03:04:09,319 --> 03:04:11,120
is about. I have to run, but I want to

2962
03:04:11,120 --> 03:04:14,399
thank you for having me and a really great chat today.

2963
03:04:14,399 --> 03:04:15,000
Thank you so much.

2964
03:04:15,440 --> 03:04:17,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you so much. You want to plug anything,

2965
03:04:17,399 --> 03:04:19,959
obviously you stream Jade Iyer. You can find him on

2966
03:04:20,040 --> 03:04:22,159
YouTube specific ones you're coming up.

2967
03:04:22,799 --> 03:04:24,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, if anybody's in the Nashville area and you want

2968
03:04:24,879 --> 03:04:27,840
to come to the event, Uh, Friday and Saturday, I'm

2969
03:04:27,879 --> 03:04:31,840
speaking with Jimbob's closest associate, James Lindsay. I think you

2970
03:04:31,920 --> 03:04:36,360
guys are you guys have been bff since my Space

2971
03:04:36,399 --> 03:04:38,399
space right, like you'll have a joint. You had a

2972
03:04:38,520 --> 03:04:39,719
joint MySpace you shared.

2973
03:04:39,799 --> 03:04:44,120
Speaker 4: I think such a dick to that guy. It's because

2974
03:04:44,479 --> 03:04:46,399
because I can't get his attention, so I just like,

2975
03:04:46,520 --> 03:04:48,360
you know, I'm just ankle biting him and just being

2976
03:04:48,399 --> 03:04:50,120
like you're wrong, You're wrong, You're wrong.

2977
03:04:51,360 --> 03:04:53,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm just on psyops.

2978
03:04:54,120 --> 03:04:56,719
Speaker 5: So uh, we have mutual friends.

2979
03:04:56,799 --> 03:05:01,719
Speaker 2: So I'm are you're going to go sage like this guy.

2980
03:05:03,680 --> 03:05:05,799
Speaker 5: He might not even be there when I'm there. He

2981
03:05:05,879 --> 03:05:07,440
might like to speak, have no idea.

2982
03:05:07,479 --> 03:05:09,239
Speaker 4: Now there's there's hope for Lindsay because you look at

2983
03:05:09,280 --> 03:05:12,719
his Instagram and everybody is like, dude, you're still not

2984
03:05:12,959 --> 03:05:16,000
dealing with the classical liberal problem and and so from

2985
03:05:16,079 --> 03:05:18,399
that view, it's hopeful and I can lighten up a

2986
03:05:18,440 --> 03:05:18,760
little bit.

2987
03:05:18,840 --> 03:05:20,479
Speaker 5: Not I mean, yeah, I don't know. I'm not telling

2988
03:05:20,479 --> 03:05:22,319
you lighting. I'm just saying like he might not even

2989
03:05:22,360 --> 03:05:24,680
be there when I'm there, because it's like ten speakers,

2990
03:05:24,760 --> 03:05:27,639
So I'm just speaking at this event that he's speaking.

2991
03:05:27,440 --> 03:05:29,319
Speaker 4: What's a topic you're speaking on? Particularly?

2992
03:05:31,120 --> 03:05:33,399
Speaker 5: Okay, so I don't know what he's talking on. But

2993
03:05:34,799 --> 03:05:37,559
but there's a bunch of other people that have John

2994
03:05:37,600 --> 03:05:41,879
Classac speaking, who does the school World Order book. Anyway,

2995
03:05:41,920 --> 03:05:44,200
that's this weekend. You can go to Cognitive Liberty Conference

2996
03:05:44,280 --> 03:05:46,440
dot com if you want to watch that or come

2997
03:05:46,520 --> 03:05:49,399
to that Nashville Friday and Saturday. And then you can

2998
03:05:49,440 --> 03:05:52,360
get my books at Jays Analysis and in the shop.

2999
03:05:52,440 --> 03:05:55,200
I'm working on Estrala with three and I've got almost

3000
03:05:55,479 --> 03:05:58,879
two seventy eighty pages. So that's it's coming along, should

3001
03:05:58,879 --> 03:06:01,159
be should be finished maybe the next couple of months.

3002
03:06:01,319 --> 03:06:04,639
Speaker 4: So cool. And then the as in the deboot sphere,

3003
03:06:05,079 --> 03:06:07,159
the fact that Fresh and Fit had you that's a

3004
03:06:07,159 --> 03:06:12,319
pretty big platform. And is that something you want to continue?

3005
03:06:12,319 --> 03:06:15,399
Obviously you debate whenever you want, but do you see

3006
03:06:15,440 --> 03:06:19,120
something promising by transforming some of these sort of like

3007
03:06:20,000 --> 03:06:22,360
I would say, they're like, you know, you know, they're

3008
03:06:22,440 --> 03:06:25,760
dominated by the three h four class of people, but

3009
03:06:25,920 --> 03:06:29,000
they have this opportunity to do proper debates and and

3010
03:06:29,120 --> 03:06:31,319
things like that. Is that something in your experience you

3011
03:06:31,399 --> 03:06:33,479
thought was fruitful or it.

3012
03:06:33,520 --> 03:06:35,840
Speaker 5: Seems like it I mean it seems like it's already had,

3013
03:06:35,959 --> 03:06:41,360
you know, across rumble x here maybe four or five

3014
03:06:41,440 --> 03:06:43,040
hundred thousand views, which is crazy.

3015
03:06:43,680 --> 03:06:43,879
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3016
03:06:44,040 --> 03:06:47,360
Speaker 5: So you know, you and Andrew had that viral thing

3017
03:06:47,440 --> 03:06:49,360
with your other bff.

3018
03:06:49,719 --> 03:06:52,879
Speaker 4: The other I'm gonna been texting him along.

3019
03:06:53,040 --> 03:06:56,799
Speaker 5: So I mean, you know, I think one reason we

3020
03:06:56,879 --> 03:06:58,760
did it was that, you know, Myron, I think is

3021
03:06:59,360 --> 03:07:03,360
professing a professing Muslim, and we wanted to be willing

3022
03:07:03,440 --> 03:07:10,520
to say, you know, we'll come over on your home court, right, Yeah,

3023
03:07:10,879 --> 03:07:14,959
I'm open to it, just depending upon you know, yeah,

3024
03:07:15,120 --> 03:07:16,520
who it is and what's going on.

3025
03:07:17,079 --> 03:07:18,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I was looking at that and I'm like,

3026
03:07:18,680 --> 03:07:22,840
obviously the Muslim versus Christianity, who's got their metaphysics and

3027
03:07:22,879 --> 03:07:27,479
epistemology down properly, which is more coherent, is valuable. But

3028
03:07:28,280 --> 03:07:30,959
I find I hope there's a follow up debate, honestly,

3029
03:07:31,040 --> 03:07:33,079
and I think you could do this debate as well, Jay,

3030
03:07:33,079 --> 03:07:36,639
as that there's this sort of pushed unity between the

3031
03:07:36,719 --> 03:07:39,799
two and this assumption that we should pair up with

3032
03:07:40,319 --> 03:07:43,600
Islam for a cultural war to fight this evil. And

3033
03:07:43,680 --> 03:07:46,200
then and then there's this like this naive take that

3034
03:07:46,440 --> 03:07:49,680
at the end when we fight evil, then we'll figure

3035
03:07:49,719 --> 03:07:52,239
out who has the true you know, theology. And it's

3036
03:07:52,319 --> 03:07:53,799
like that's not a good bed.

3037
03:07:54,079 --> 03:07:56,719
Speaker 5: Honestly identify evil without the world.

3038
03:07:56,840 --> 03:08:00,680
Speaker 4: That's right, right, right? Yeah, yeah, Sneaker wrote. Nico wrote,

3039
03:08:01,280 --> 03:08:05,600
Muslim Islam and Christianity team up against Satan, and I

3040
03:08:05,719 --> 03:08:09,680
rewrote it like evil in truth team up against evil.

3041
03:08:09,760 --> 03:08:12,600
It's like, you can't. You can't take the bait on that,

3042
03:08:12,719 --> 03:08:15,639
even though it's tempting. It's very tempting, not for me,

3043
03:08:15,760 --> 03:08:16,959
but I can see with other people.

3044
03:08:17,239 --> 03:08:19,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, that debate last night. The main reason I

3045
03:08:20,079 --> 03:08:24,520
was happy to do that was that those guys they're

3046
03:08:24,559 --> 03:08:26,440
really notorious for kind of running from Sam.

3047
03:08:27,120 --> 03:08:27,319
Speaker 2: Yeah.

3048
03:08:27,719 --> 03:08:29,520
Speaker 5: Sam knows is Lom way better than me. So I

3049
03:08:29,600 --> 03:08:31,360
really wanted it just to be the vehicle for Sam

3050
03:08:31,479 --> 03:08:34,239
to come on and let loose against those guys. And

3051
03:08:34,440 --> 03:08:37,879
that's seemed to have worked well. So you know, I

3052
03:08:38,120 --> 03:08:41,000
don't even I'm not a Muslim Islam expert.

3053
03:08:41,159 --> 03:08:45,559
Speaker 4: So well you've I mean, you're able to defeat Islam

3054
03:08:46,000 --> 03:08:48,440
just by talking about a foot. That's what I learned.

3055
03:08:48,479 --> 03:08:49,680
I was like, oh shit, I don't know.

3056
03:08:49,799 --> 03:08:52,680
Speaker 5: I mean, I always want to go off into like

3057
03:08:52,959 --> 03:08:56,479
you know, all these other topics and what's happened. I

3058
03:08:56,559 --> 03:08:59,079
think that Posh was getting to about kind of the

3059
03:08:59,200 --> 03:09:02,000
online internet is really being a difficult thing for Islam

3060
03:09:02,079 --> 03:09:06,040
because people are hearing now for the first time in

3061
03:09:06,040 --> 03:09:10,399
the last few years, not just Christian evangelical goobers on

3062
03:09:10,520 --> 03:09:13,000
the defensive. So for a long time, Muslims go out

3063
03:09:13,000 --> 03:09:15,520
in debate and it's always Christians on the defensive. Now

3064
03:09:15,680 --> 03:09:18,040
it's Christians on the offensive, and then we begin to

3065
03:09:18,079 --> 03:09:20,440
see how flimsy it is.

3066
03:09:21,799 --> 03:09:25,120
Speaker 2: One thing that the Internet has done is that their

3067
03:09:25,200 --> 03:09:27,639
sources are now available. You can go to souna dot

3068
03:09:27,719 --> 03:09:31,879
com exactly and read the hadith. Because when Muhammed Hijab

3069
03:09:31,920 --> 03:09:35,120
a couple of years ago had a poll on Twitter

3070
03:09:35,959 --> 03:09:39,159
asking what is like Muslims? This is anonymous, so you

3071
03:09:39,239 --> 03:09:45,360
can answer sincerely, you know what is your biggest source

3072
03:09:45,440 --> 03:09:51,760
of doubts in Islam? And he gave like science, scientific

3073
03:09:51,840 --> 03:09:56,200
you know, knowledge claims of other religions. What one out

3074
03:09:57,559 --> 03:10:02,440
is the personal morality of Muhamad. So because people are

3075
03:10:02,479 --> 03:10:09,040
now getting acquainted with these problems, about about ten years ago,

3076
03:10:09,399 --> 03:10:12,079
you would be called Islamophobic if you mentioned I shall

3077
03:10:12,239 --> 03:10:15,959
six when he married a nine, when he consummated. But

3078
03:10:16,159 --> 03:10:19,079
there are worse things, and I think by next week

3079
03:10:19,120 --> 03:10:23,200
i'll prepare. I have Jimbob and Andrew on for the

3080
03:10:23,319 --> 03:10:27,520
funniest things in Islam. Jerry, if you want on, you're

3081
03:10:27,600 --> 03:10:31,799
free to come on. It's just the silly things, you know,

3082
03:10:32,159 --> 03:10:36,319
Like most punishment of the graves is because people make mistakes.

3083
03:10:36,479 --> 03:10:40,920
Urinating because men have to crouch, you know, squat when

3084
03:10:40,959 --> 03:10:43,639
they beat. If you don't, Angel will talk.

3085
03:10:45,319 --> 03:10:46,680
Speaker 5: I got to run. But thank you guys so much.

3086
03:10:47,120 --> 03:10:52,440
Speaker 4: Thanks, I appreciate it. Zee man, that's funny. Definitely posh.

3087
03:10:52,479 --> 03:10:55,719
We need to interact more so offline so that I

3088
03:10:55,799 --> 03:10:57,840
can prepare visuals and memes.

3089
03:10:58,000 --> 03:11:01,360
Speaker 2: Make sure we do that, okay, thinking whether that's better

3090
03:11:01,600 --> 03:11:04,520
or whether it's better to get organic reactions.

3091
03:11:05,479 --> 03:11:08,000
Speaker 4: That's true to you. Well, well, I'll put it this way.

3092
03:11:08,120 --> 03:11:11,360
I'll prepare some visuals and then use them if I

3093
03:11:11,479 --> 03:11:13,319
need to in the background as a you know, put

3094
03:11:13,360 --> 03:11:16,600
them in my holster. But certainly a list of the

3095
03:11:16,680 --> 03:11:21,200
most absurd, right, So it's Hadith and Kuran references that

3096
03:11:21,319 --> 03:11:23,920
are most you know, peculiar and strange.

3097
03:11:24,000 --> 03:11:28,079
Speaker 2: Right. Sam ruined one of my favorites, which is that

3098
03:11:30,440 --> 03:11:34,040
a large's bit on the wiena by the womb?

3099
03:11:36,879 --> 03:11:40,559
Speaker 4: What by the by the what the womb? The womb?

3100
03:11:41,000 --> 03:11:45,120
Who's womb? It's not even a brown recluse or anything

3101
03:11:45,159 --> 03:11:45,760
that we know of.

3102
03:11:47,559 --> 03:11:52,319
Speaker 2: You know, mega something floating about, I suppose and he

3103
03:11:52,440 --> 03:11:53,360
shout stop it.

3104
03:11:55,200 --> 03:12:01,360
Speaker 4: Stop that right now. Yeah, that's gonna be fun. When

3105
03:12:01,440 --> 03:12:02,799
is that two weeks we can have?

3106
03:12:03,559 --> 03:12:07,000
Speaker 2: I hope I can get it ready by next Thursday

3107
03:12:07,120 --> 03:12:07,520
or something.

3108
03:12:07,719 --> 03:12:08,280
Speaker 4: Okay, cool.

3109
03:12:08,559 --> 03:12:12,040
Speaker 2: We're in the middle of a heat wave. It's it's

3110
03:12:12,360 --> 03:12:15,760
absolutely hallish. I was wearing a white beata so bad

3111
03:12:15,799 --> 03:12:18,239
that I had to put on this shirt nice. I

3112
03:12:18,319 --> 03:12:20,680
was wearing a white beata so white beatery that it

3113
03:12:20,799 --> 03:12:25,959
seemed like I was offering like a service. That's I like,

3114
03:12:26,159 --> 03:12:27,559
white beaten for a fair price.

3115
03:12:28,920 --> 03:12:31,120
Speaker 4: When you when a Serbian says there's a heat wave,

3116
03:12:31,239 --> 03:12:33,879
I assume they mean there's bombs going off. Like I

3117
03:12:33,920 --> 03:12:38,040
don't know the distinction. We're like. I was, I'm like, posh,

3118
03:12:38,159 --> 03:12:40,719
can you stream next week? And he's like, well, there

3119
03:12:40,799 --> 03:12:44,239
are bombs going off in the distance, so I think

3120
03:12:44,319 --> 03:12:45,200
it'll be fine.

3121
03:12:47,079 --> 03:12:51,000
Speaker 2: Warry Stone quarrying here and you can hear when they

3122
03:12:51,120 --> 03:12:55,559
blow up stuff, so that triggers great memories.

3123
03:12:55,639 --> 03:12:58,680
Speaker 4: Right right right, you can use as propaganda if you want, right.

3124
03:12:59,360 --> 03:13:02,159
Speaker 2: Sure, it makes you sound whiny.

3125
03:13:02,760 --> 03:13:06,959
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. If there's any other chats,

3126
03:13:06,959 --> 03:13:09,000
I want to go through and make sure I didn't miss.

3127
03:13:12,280 --> 03:13:12,559
Speaker 2: Me too.

3128
03:13:12,719 --> 03:13:16,280
Speaker 4: So true, and we'll stick around. Thank you, new members,

3129
03:13:16,360 --> 03:13:18,879
Thank you. Shout out to Rachel for ten memberships there.

3130
03:13:19,440 --> 03:13:21,000
I'll go over to the Bob chats at a second

3131
03:13:21,040 --> 03:13:22,040
because I saw some come in.

3132
03:13:23,559 --> 03:13:24,559
Speaker 2: I'll get the beer.

3133
03:13:25,079 --> 03:13:32,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, you get another beer for those in the chat.

3134
03:13:32,959 --> 03:13:36,360
Is there any other questions you have? I know maybe

3135
03:13:36,440 --> 03:13:39,520
some of you wanted to ask Jay questions, but times

3136
03:13:39,559 --> 03:13:42,799
of ticking. Shout out to Jay for coming on. Appreciate that.

3137
03:13:43,959 --> 03:13:49,559
I hope you guys learned something about dispensationalism. It's perversion

3138
03:13:50,159 --> 03:13:56,079
and its impact on modern geopolitics. Not that there's suddenly

3139
03:13:56,159 --> 03:13:59,520
a button we can hit where everyone wakes up, uh,

3140
03:14:00,399 --> 03:14:02,799
as is the case in the Truther sphere, where you

3141
03:14:03,040 --> 03:14:06,479
just open the golden folders and the rays of light

3142
03:14:07,159 --> 03:14:10,399
bless upon your face and you're awakened and illuminated forever.

3143
03:14:11,559 --> 03:14:13,719
We don't hold that view. That's not as It's not

3144
03:14:14,159 --> 03:14:20,799
quite that easy, is it. Let me see twenty dollars,

3145
03:14:21,120 --> 03:14:26,000
thank you so much. Over at bob Chat for the Muslims.

3146
03:14:26,040 --> 03:14:29,799
In the chat, Mohammad prophesied that the wall of dull

3147
03:14:30,520 --> 03:14:38,760
Karnaine Surah Coronaane this is a parenthesis Surah eighteen eighty

3148
03:14:38,840 --> 03:14:42,479
three to ninety nine in the Hadiths, would stand until

3149
03:14:42,520 --> 03:14:45,200
the last day. There is no massive wall of iron

3150
03:14:45,280 --> 03:14:48,479
and copper between two mountains holding back armies of fourteen

3151
03:14:48,559 --> 03:14:53,360
hundred years. Therefore Muhammad is false prophet. Find the wall

3152
03:14:53,520 --> 03:14:57,159
or leave your cult. He didn't say this, you're all gay.

3153
03:15:00,159 --> 03:15:02,600
Speaker 2: That part of what the connane is going to be

3154
03:15:02,719 --> 03:15:06,239
part of the stream, definitely, because for those who do

3155
03:15:06,399 --> 03:15:10,000
not know, vall Karnane means man of two horns, and

3156
03:15:10,239 --> 03:15:14,799
it refers to Alexander the Great, who had this title,

3157
03:15:14,920 --> 03:15:18,680
you know, as he went about conquering, he also went

3158
03:15:18,799 --> 03:15:25,319
about undergoing ceremonies that would render him the Avatar, the

3159
03:15:25,520 --> 03:15:30,879
Sun or whatever of the local deity, you know, And

3160
03:15:31,399 --> 03:15:33,520
he has a depiction of you know, like a helmet

3161
03:15:33,559 --> 03:15:38,000
with two horns, etc. So he is the man of

3162
03:15:38,079 --> 03:15:44,520
two horns. And these stories reflect what's called the Alexandrian romances.

3163
03:15:45,719 --> 03:15:51,559
So it's obviously crypt But as Muhammad went along. He

3164
03:15:52,600 --> 03:15:59,040
just picked up stories about local, well known people. And

3165
03:15:59,479 --> 03:16:04,360
the wall of the Colnen is built. I come. Remember,

3166
03:16:04,559 --> 03:16:09,239
it's copper and iron smelted down, you know, and they

3167
03:16:09,319 --> 03:16:12,879
build a wall to entrap your George and not a George,

3168
03:16:13,399 --> 03:16:17,159
which is a rough equivalent of Gog and Magog. But

3169
03:16:17,559 --> 03:16:20,760
Gog and Magog in the Bible are a completely different thing,

3170
03:16:20,879 --> 03:16:24,959
because yeah, George and George are basically like these mutant

3171
03:16:25,040 --> 03:16:30,079
people who outnumber the Muslims nine hundred and ninety nine

3172
03:16:30,120 --> 03:16:36,440
to one. So is that their nephlom, No, it's it's

3173
03:16:36,600 --> 03:16:42,280
it's not the same manufacturing, So they are mutated. You know.

3174
03:16:42,399 --> 03:16:45,440
They have like shield like faces with tiny eyes. So

3175
03:16:45,600 --> 03:16:49,840
some have speculated the Chinese, but.

3176
03:16:54,479 --> 03:16:57,239
Speaker 4: Well, yes, but what is that is that Serbian piss?

3177
03:17:00,319 --> 03:17:09,760
Speaker 2: Well mine might be that's yeah, it's plum brandy. It's

3178
03:17:10,159 --> 03:17:13,760
it's actually on unesco or it's not unco some un

3179
03:17:15,000 --> 03:17:17,760
about heritage, you know. It's it's one of the best

3180
03:17:17,799 --> 03:17:21,479
things you can ever drink. This is why I never

3181
03:17:21,639 --> 03:17:22,200
liked whiskey.

3182
03:17:22,680 --> 03:17:26,440
Speaker 4: I grew up with Oh really and like all.

3183
03:17:26,399 --> 03:17:30,520
Speaker 2: Like whiskey and gin woll tasted medicinal to me. Yeah,

3184
03:17:30,600 --> 03:17:33,440
like I felt like I went into the medical cabinet

3185
03:17:33,520 --> 03:17:37,879
and started chugging. But back to your juja. So they're

3186
03:17:37,879 --> 03:17:41,639
supposed to outnumber the Muslims nine hundred and ninety nine

3187
03:17:41,639 --> 03:17:46,399
toy one. So let's say it's not for now, it's

3188
03:17:46,520 --> 03:17:51,000
like for when Islam is smaller. And let's say there's

3189
03:17:51,040 --> 03:17:54,319
a one hundred thousand of them left. If you have

3190
03:17:54,479 --> 03:17:57,559
a one hundred thousand times a thousand, that's one hundred million.

3191
03:17:58,879 --> 03:18:06,799
So we're suppose to find one hundred million. It's all

3192
03:18:07,079 --> 03:18:11,760
medicine for everything, plus a cleaning agent, and we're supposed

3193
03:18:11,799 --> 03:18:15,399
to find and again I'm being very generous, one hundred

3194
03:18:15,520 --> 03:18:20,159
million people locked somewhere but behind a giant wall of

3195
03:18:20,440 --> 03:18:26,680
iron and bronze or copper, doesn't matter, And they dig

3196
03:18:26,840 --> 03:18:32,079
every day and they almost break through. But when they stop,

3197
03:18:32,719 --> 03:18:36,040
they go back and Allah restores it during the night.

3198
03:18:36,959 --> 03:18:38,280
Speaker 4: But one go how convenient.

3199
03:18:39,319 --> 03:18:45,200
Speaker 2: But one day they won't leave by saying tomorrow we

3200
03:18:45,280 --> 03:18:49,959
will finish. They will say tomorrow we will finish in Chollah,

3201
03:18:51,000 --> 03:18:54,959
Allah willing, and then Allah won't restore it. So the

3202
03:18:55,040 --> 03:18:57,680
next day they will finish it and break out, and

3203
03:18:57,760 --> 03:18:59,879
there will be so many of them they will drink

3204
03:19:00,159 --> 03:19:04,360
entire lakes and rivers and it's glory.

3205
03:19:05,120 --> 03:19:06,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds a lot. I mean, I feel like,

3206
03:19:07,120 --> 03:19:10,760
I mean, what's her name, Greta Tunberg could have written

3207
03:19:11,040 --> 03:19:15,200
Islam based on like the structure of how they're like,

3208
03:19:15,319 --> 03:19:18,200
well it will all this stuff could happen, and then

3209
03:19:18,559 --> 03:19:21,840
and then it just like, you know, it's just this promise,

3210
03:19:22,200 --> 03:19:25,200
this promise, this promise, and then there's nothing that actually

3211
03:19:25,399 --> 03:19:29,399
corresponds to reality. The only thing about Islam that corresponds

3212
03:19:29,479 --> 03:19:35,799
with the reality of human beings and our existence over

3213
03:19:35,920 --> 03:19:39,280
time is Christian. It's like, you know, the only thing

3214
03:19:39,360 --> 03:19:42,559
that they that they describe accurately, it seems to be

3215
03:19:42,719 --> 03:19:45,959
borrowed from a Christian worldview. I don't know how they

3216
03:19:46,040 --> 03:19:49,840
get over that. Now they might get something descriptive things right,

3217
03:19:49,920 --> 03:19:54,079
but but their whole foundation. I always tell the Muslims

3218
03:19:54,120 --> 03:19:59,559
who jump on the comments that I go okay, they say, oh, well,

3219
03:19:59,680 --> 03:20:02,879
Islam is true Christianity's falls, and I just simply say,

3220
03:20:03,559 --> 03:20:05,799
for Islam to be true, you need Christianity to be

3221
03:20:06,120 --> 03:20:08,959
partially true. For Christianity to be true, you need none

3222
03:20:09,000 --> 03:20:10,040
of Islam to be true.

3223
03:20:11,079 --> 03:20:17,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think David would coin the phrase the

3224
03:20:17,520 --> 03:20:25,479
Islamic dilemma or the Quranic dilemma. But basically the Korana

3225
03:20:25,600 --> 03:20:29,840
firms the Angel and the Torat, which is basically the

3226
03:20:30,079 --> 03:20:34,040
Gospel and the Torah. So maybe you want to take

3227
03:20:34,120 --> 03:20:37,200
a contracted view of those and you know, just saying

3228
03:20:37,280 --> 03:20:42,479
geel okay, just the Gospels or the Torah, just maybe

3229
03:20:42,559 --> 03:20:47,159
the pentateook or something. The problem is there's no way

3230
03:20:47,239 --> 03:20:50,280
to render it where you either have to accept the

3231
03:20:50,399 --> 03:20:57,680
legitimacy yes, and everything else. Like I mentioned the Alexandrian romance,

3232
03:20:59,520 --> 03:21:02,079
pagan stuff is also local and.

3233
03:21:02,559 --> 03:21:06,399
Speaker 4: A Gnostic, as as our Albanian. The one Albanian we like,

3234
03:21:07,840 --> 03:21:12,280
the the accordion player. He did a stream. I would

3235
03:21:12,319 --> 03:21:13,920
do another one of those, by the way, because like

3236
03:21:14,319 --> 03:21:18,000
that's really interesting to track back Islam too early gnostic.

3237
03:21:19,319 --> 03:21:24,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like you like the Jesus wasn't actually crucified,

3238
03:21:25,159 --> 03:21:28,120
he was replaced. That's not the universal that's I believe.

3239
03:21:28,120 --> 03:21:31,559
It's a majority Islamic view, but not universal. You have

3240
03:21:31,719 --> 03:21:34,760
those who don't believe that, and they have their arguments.

3241
03:21:35,920 --> 03:21:39,799
But obviously a lot of things, just just as I said,

3242
03:21:39,840 --> 03:21:49,760
it's the most improvised religion ever. But but what was

3243
03:21:49,840 --> 03:21:55,360
I talking about. Yes, the Qur'an basically says you need

3244
03:21:55,600 --> 03:21:59,159
the Christians, you need to go to your Angel. The Jews,

3245
03:21:59,200 --> 03:22:01,639
you need to go to the Torad. And there's a

3246
03:22:01,920 --> 03:22:07,079
hadith where Mohammad was asked to solve some dispute after

3247
03:22:07,200 --> 03:22:10,440
conquering like a Jewish place. So he's in charge. They

3248
03:22:10,479 --> 03:22:13,079
go to him for the dispute and he says, bring

3249
03:22:13,200 --> 03:22:15,120
me a copy of the Torah. And they bring him

3250
03:22:15,120 --> 03:22:17,600
a copy of the Torah and he gets up from

3251
03:22:17,799 --> 03:22:19,920
the cushion he's sitting on. Right, this is the Middle East,

3252
03:22:19,959 --> 03:22:24,840
and they use chairs because wood is hella expensive as

3253
03:22:25,040 --> 03:22:29,639
the children say nowadays, And he places the scroll on

3254
03:22:29,920 --> 03:22:33,120
the cushion as a sign of reverence and he says,

3255
03:22:33,399 --> 03:22:36,959
I believe in you and the one who revealed you, right,

3256
03:22:37,120 --> 03:22:41,600
so he confirms it. There are critiques of the Jews

3257
03:22:41,600 --> 03:22:44,719
and Christians that we pervert the meaning. That's a completely

3258
03:22:44,799 --> 03:22:51,239
different thing. And then there's the passages where the Muslims

3259
03:22:51,239 --> 03:22:55,079
are sharing for what we call the Byzantine Empire, right,

3260
03:22:55,239 --> 03:23:01,319
the Roman Empire against the Persians, because the Persia are Zoroastrians,

3261
03:23:01,799 --> 03:23:06,319
the fire worshipers as they're called there, and the Romans

3262
03:23:06,360 --> 03:23:10,079
are the people of the book because they're Christian, they

3263
03:23:10,159 --> 03:23:16,799
have revelation of Allah. Now we're talking about seventh century Byzantium.

3264
03:23:17,920 --> 03:23:21,959
Things were handled at that point as far as what

3265
03:23:22,159 --> 03:23:27,159
constitutes the New Testament. So if Muhammad was saying these people,

3266
03:23:27,200 --> 03:23:29,360
we're cheering for these people because they have the revelation

3267
03:23:29,479 --> 03:23:32,479
of Allah, that means that what they had is the

3268
03:23:32,559 --> 03:23:36,600
revelation of Allah. Not to mention also that they say, Oh,

3269
03:23:37,680 --> 03:23:41,239
Jesus came to the Jews, and a portion of them

3270
03:23:41,680 --> 03:23:45,319
accepted him, another portion rejected him, and Allah will until

3271
03:23:45,479 --> 03:23:49,440
the judgment day make sure that the ones who accepted

3272
03:23:49,520 --> 03:23:54,799
him were made superior. So those who accepted Christ will

3273
03:23:54,840 --> 03:23:58,559
be kept superior until judgment day to those who rejected

3274
03:23:59,799 --> 03:24:03,000
And because it can't be the trinitarians, obviously we are

3275
03:24:03,079 --> 03:24:10,879
all idolators and polytheists, right, So who are these people then? Yeah? Right?

3276
03:24:11,559 --> 03:24:15,680
Is there some super secret Jewish sect that's monotheistic and

3277
03:24:15,799 --> 03:24:20,079
basically would have to be Muslim So it makes no sense,

3278
03:24:20,319 --> 03:24:23,520
as they said, it's winging it. But then they latch

3279
03:24:23,639 --> 03:24:26,399
onto things like, oh, the Trinity is illogical, as if

3280
03:24:26,559 --> 03:24:30,120
you can just impose logic on what God is.

3281
03:24:31,239 --> 03:24:35,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, that brings up you mentioned seventh seventh century. I

3282
03:24:35,159 --> 03:24:36,600
don't know if it's six or seven. I don't know

3283
03:24:36,639 --> 03:24:41,680
if it matters. But Jay's hypotheticals is a pretty sharp

3284
03:24:41,760 --> 03:24:44,399
knife against the islam debater, isn't it.

3285
03:24:44,639 --> 03:24:50,280
Speaker 2: That's the Islamic dilemma because if the scriptures we have

3286
03:24:50,760 --> 03:24:54,200
are unreliable, then the Quran is wrong. If they are

3287
03:24:54,280 --> 03:24:58,040
reliable and they contradict the Quran, then Islam is wrong. Yeah,

3288
03:24:58,360 --> 03:25:02,760
so it's wrong either way, will go. It's corrupted. But

3289
03:25:03,200 --> 03:25:04,879
we can prove Mohammed from.

3290
03:25:04,760 --> 03:25:07,559
Speaker 4: Script So because like this, the Koran is right and

3291
03:25:07,639 --> 03:25:11,040
it's based on scripture. The parts that are wrong about

3292
03:25:11,079 --> 03:25:14,280
scripture are wrong because it doesn't go with the Quran.

3293
03:25:14,879 --> 03:25:18,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't have to make sense.

3294
03:25:18,159 --> 03:25:20,319
Speaker 4: It just don't even You don't even need three beers

3295
03:25:20,360 --> 03:25:25,079
to laugh at that. Wow, And they don't see a

3296
03:25:25,120 --> 03:25:27,120
problem with it. They just fart. They just fart.

3297
03:25:27,760 --> 03:25:28,360
Speaker 2: Well, I have no.

3298
03:25:28,440 --> 03:25:34,639
Speaker 4: Response, So I think Jay should start fo rhetorics. Did

3299
03:25:34,680 --> 03:25:36,479
you watch that debate, by the way, all the way through,

3300
03:25:36,479 --> 03:25:38,000
You're just gonna get snippets.

3301
03:25:37,719 --> 03:25:41,680
Speaker 2: Or what get too because it started at midnight and

3302
03:25:41,920 --> 03:25:45,639
today I was preparing mostly for this dream. So I

3303
03:25:45,760 --> 03:25:49,120
have to finish it. I did get a sizeable portion in,

3304
03:25:49,639 --> 03:25:52,680
but ultimately I have to sleep as well.

3305
03:25:53,719 --> 03:25:57,680
Speaker 4: Who farted his opponent? The squeaky guy, the squeaky moles

3306
03:25:57,879 --> 03:25:58,639
mole sounding guy.

3307
03:25:59,319 --> 03:26:02,559
Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, that guy got into a lot of trouble

3308
03:26:03,000 --> 03:26:14,559
for racially abusing some Chinese Christians Chinese. There are good

3309
03:26:14,639 --> 03:26:26,639
sides to him. Good job job redeeming qualities. Uh time.

3310
03:26:26,680 --> 03:26:30,159
Speaker 4: Same go to Jay's social media. He did a pretty

3311
03:26:30,200 --> 03:26:33,040
good job of putting it on every single one of his.

3312
03:26:33,120 --> 03:26:39,920
Speaker 2: Accounts, like goes into a gym and like plays it

3313
03:26:40,040 --> 03:26:40,840
on the TV.

3314
03:26:41,319 --> 03:26:44,440
Speaker 4: Part poor guy, All as fart is all as fart,

3315
03:26:44,760 --> 03:26:46,559
is all as fart, like any human part.

3316
03:26:47,079 --> 03:26:50,520
Speaker 2: Uh actually doesn't have an anus? Oh right, right, right,

3317
03:26:53,360 --> 03:26:55,040
there's the difference between Adam.

3318
03:26:54,799 --> 03:26:59,559
Speaker 4: And Oh really, Oh it's serious. Oh you're not even

3319
03:26:59,680 --> 03:27:02,360
being acetious. Well I can't even tell. I can't even

3320
03:27:02,440 --> 03:27:05,319
tell when when Pasha is refuting Islam, I don't know

3321
03:27:05,399 --> 03:27:08,520
when he's being sarcastic or not. That's how bad Islam is.

3322
03:27:09,639 --> 03:27:13,200
Speaker 2: You have no idea how, and I will introduce it

3323
03:27:13,319 --> 03:27:14,520
to you and Andrew, I.

3324
03:27:16,239 --> 03:27:18,000
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we should do. That's a party, Are you

3325
03:27:18,120 --> 03:27:21,159
kidding me? Four of us watching like looking over the

3326
03:27:21,239 --> 03:27:24,280
most funny things about Islam? Are you kidding me?

3327
03:27:25,159 --> 03:27:28,040
Speaker 2: Do you know how horrible it is for me to

3328
03:27:28,559 --> 03:27:30,879
have all of these in mind right now and not

3329
03:27:31,040 --> 03:27:31,600
be able.

3330
03:27:31,399 --> 03:27:33,040
Speaker 4: To not say them? No, no, no, don't roomy.

3331
03:27:33,440 --> 03:27:37,479
Speaker 2: I gotta see it because I believe the better creating

3332
03:27:37,719 --> 03:27:41,879
it created.

3333
03:27:44,319 --> 03:27:46,079
Speaker 4: Actually, I want to go over that real quick before

3334
03:27:46,120 --> 03:27:49,399
we finish up the This seems to be fatal. The

3335
03:27:49,600 --> 03:27:54,799
question is the is the Quran uncreated? Because they view

3336
03:27:55,000 --> 03:27:57,719
similar to a Protestant who sees the Bible as some

3337
03:27:57,840 --> 03:28:02,200
sort of like uh image, material eternal feature of reality

3338
03:28:02,399 --> 03:28:08,360
that just happens to materialize itself with no tradition or history. Similarly,

3339
03:28:08,920 --> 03:28:11,159
are you saying that the when you ask? When we

3340
03:28:11,280 --> 03:28:14,920
ask is the Qur'an uncreated, we're asking a similar question, right,

3341
03:28:15,280 --> 03:28:22,360
We're saying, like, is this thing itself? Uh, the the revelator,

3342
03:28:22,879 --> 03:28:26,319
the reflector of revelation itself as an item, as an object.

3343
03:28:27,000 --> 03:28:29,799
Speaker 2: I'll explain the logic to you. Just because Jay says

3344
03:28:29,920 --> 03:28:34,280
there are actual thought hadiths. So there's one where that

3345
03:28:34,639 --> 03:28:41,159
Ridvan show j where the chap runs away from hearing

3346
03:28:41,280 --> 03:28:46,920
Muslim prayers and fats do not hear them as a yeah, yeah, yeah,

3347
03:28:47,680 --> 03:28:49,719
no no no no no, no, no, no, no like

3348
03:28:49,840 --> 03:28:56,680
that exactly. There is a hadith that has been popularized

3349
03:28:56,760 --> 03:29:00,760
recently that the eyes of the leather straps of the anus, okay,

3350
03:29:01,600 --> 03:29:05,719
which means that while you're awake, you know, you have control.

3351
03:29:05,600 --> 03:29:09,440
Speaker 4: Over the demons come unto your butt. Right, that's a

3352
03:29:09,479 --> 03:29:09,959
weak spot.

3353
03:29:11,600 --> 03:29:16,280
Speaker 2: It's that while you're sleeping you could fart, and unless

3354
03:29:16,319 --> 03:29:20,879
you do your ablutions, like your ritual cleansings, your prayer

3355
03:29:20,920 --> 03:29:24,120
won't count. That's why when you wake up you have

3356
03:29:24,200 --> 03:29:26,600
to do your ablutions because you might have farted in

3357
03:29:27,120 --> 03:29:31,719
during your sleep. Okay, okay, so very important.

3358
03:29:32,079 --> 03:29:36,399
Speaker 4: Okay, all his messenger said in the when when don

3359
03:29:36,559 --> 03:29:39,600
is pronounced, Satan takes to his heels and passes wind.

3360
03:29:40,159 --> 03:29:43,159
Satan farts with noise during his flight in order to

3361
03:29:43,360 --> 03:29:44,600
not hear the adon.

3362
03:29:44,920 --> 03:29:46,040
Speaker 2: So there is.

3363
03:29:48,200 --> 03:29:48,920
Speaker 4: Fart defense.

3364
03:29:51,399 --> 03:29:52,760
Speaker 2: He's got a wind attribute.

3365
03:29:53,239 --> 03:29:55,079
Speaker 4: How do you how do you teach that? I mean,

3366
03:29:55,280 --> 03:29:56,920
this is the kind of thing like you know, like

3367
03:29:57,079 --> 03:29:59,280
like if we were in like divine liturgy and our

3368
03:29:59,360 --> 03:30:02,399
priest was all and then God, you know, farting to

3369
03:30:02,479 --> 03:30:05,360
make sure you don't hear ship, we wouldn't even know

3370
03:30:05,479 --> 03:30:08,719
what to do with it, like like that's just like now,

3371
03:30:08,879 --> 03:30:11,399
now there is The Muslims would say that's not fair.

3372
03:30:12,000 --> 03:30:14,559
We don't accept all the hadiths because these are sort

3373
03:30:14,600 --> 03:30:17,799
of like these higher uh, this kind of an elected

3374
03:30:17,840 --> 03:30:21,319
symposium of smarty pants people looking back, right, you know,

3375
03:30:21,440 --> 03:30:24,280
to be fair, the hadiths is a collection, right of

3376
03:30:24,959 --> 03:30:29,520
of reflection or philosophical reflection on the Quran. Right is

3377
03:30:29,559 --> 03:30:32,719
that is that accurate? It's like a it's like a

3378
03:30:32,920 --> 03:30:34,440
post sort.

3379
03:30:34,239 --> 03:30:39,639
Speaker 2: Of very okay, Yeah, I have this guy.

3380
03:30:42,000 --> 03:30:44,239
Speaker 4: The fart teeth. That's good.

3381
03:30:45,239 --> 03:30:49,680
Speaker 2: Uh. You have this guy called Bohari al Bahari and

3382
03:30:51,040 --> 03:30:53,920
I can't remember one or two centuries off to Muhammed.

3383
03:30:54,719 --> 03:30:58,239
He goes from basically Central Asia.

3384
03:30:58,280 --> 03:31:04,719
Speaker 4: The shittergy sorry sorry, go ahead.

3385
03:31:06,399 --> 03:31:11,200
Speaker 2: So he goes over to a saudio not Saudi Arabia.

3386
03:31:10,840 --> 03:31:12,760
Speaker 4: But fair enough.

3387
03:31:12,879 --> 03:31:19,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he collects the oral traditions and there's a

3388
03:31:19,040 --> 03:31:22,120
whole methodology as to how reliable it is, you know,

3389
03:31:22,239 --> 03:31:25,680
the chain of narrations like this guy's Mohammad said this,

3390
03:31:26,719 --> 03:31:28,920
and he said it to this guy. This guy said

3391
03:31:28,959 --> 03:31:31,639
it to this guy what they call the chain of narration.

3392
03:31:34,559 --> 03:31:37,520
And that's how you get you, you know, the grading system,

3393
03:31:38,360 --> 03:31:41,159
you know, and sometimes in the chain of narration there's

3394
03:31:41,159 --> 03:31:43,920
a guy who's known to be unreliable, so you rejected.

3395
03:31:45,559 --> 03:31:50,920
The gradacious system is basically you've got four potentially four

3396
03:31:51,000 --> 03:31:56,040
and a half gradings. So you've got the rejected ones.

3397
03:31:56,479 --> 03:31:58,479
I can't remember the word for that, something with the

3398
03:31:58,600 --> 03:32:03,559
starts with an M. Then you've got the weak ones

3399
03:32:03,959 --> 03:32:09,680
called dai, which means you know, we're not too sure,

3400
03:32:09,760 --> 03:32:14,120
but it gets a passing grade. You know, this is

3401
03:32:14,280 --> 03:32:17,440
very important because people tell you, oh, that day, we

3402
03:32:17,520 --> 03:32:22,600
don't have to believe that. Meanwhile, you no, you actually do.

3403
03:32:23,879 --> 03:32:28,479
It's just that it's not as reliable as the next one,

3404
03:32:28,520 --> 03:32:33,280
which is hassan, which means good, so it's pretty solid,

3405
03:32:33,680 --> 03:32:38,959
you know. Then you get sahei, which means sound, and

3406
03:32:39,120 --> 03:32:42,840
that's for proof. That gets an A as far as

3407
03:32:42,920 --> 03:32:46,520
gradings go. And I said four and a half because

3408
03:32:46,559 --> 03:32:53,760
you have a subset of sahi hadiz called motawa, which

3409
03:32:53,879 --> 03:32:58,360
means repeated. Okay, so you get them from multiple sources.

3410
03:32:58,639 --> 03:33:06,200
They aligned. So it's so you have scholars who say

3411
03:33:06,319 --> 03:33:12,520
rejecting is like rejecting a versus the Koran. And then

3412
03:33:12,559 --> 03:33:15,760
obviously you get the Quran. You also have like sonas,

3413
03:33:16,760 --> 03:33:20,719
which is means life. That's where you give the terms sunny,

3414
03:33:21,200 --> 03:33:25,920
because they're following the son I think that's how it's said,

3415
03:33:26,280 --> 03:33:29,159
like the life of the profit of Allah. Right, So

3416
03:33:29,440 --> 03:33:32,000
that's why they dress a certain way, they behave a

3417
03:33:32,120 --> 03:33:36,360
certain way, because they're emulating the life of Muhammad. Right,

3418
03:33:36,680 --> 03:33:41,959
that's what Sunni means Ali, which means the followers are Ali.

3419
03:33:42,600 --> 03:33:45,319
That's a different thing, right, But that's where you get.

3420
03:33:45,440 --> 03:33:47,760
You also have the tough sears, which are the commentaries

3421
03:33:47,959 --> 03:33:53,120
on on on these topics. But here's how it works

3422
03:33:53,159 --> 03:33:57,399
in practice. It can be any of the grades except

3423
03:33:57,440 --> 03:34:01,840
the rejected, if it works in their favor, like, oh,

3424
03:34:02,040 --> 03:34:07,799
Mohammed fed like a starving orphan. No warriors, but oh

3425
03:34:08,079 --> 03:34:08,680
this is great.

3426
03:34:08,840 --> 03:34:11,719
Speaker 4: This is just cruel if that's true.

3427
03:34:12,559 --> 03:34:15,399
Speaker 2: Mohammad was apparently a red head, that.

3428
03:34:15,479 --> 03:34:18,959
Speaker 4: Makes definitely false if he was a redhead.

3429
03:34:19,040 --> 03:34:23,399
Speaker 2: Related to Elizabeth. I've heard that it was a process

3430
03:34:23,479 --> 03:34:28,399
of dyeing your beard. You have certain clerics who do

3431
03:34:28,520 --> 03:34:29,200
that nowadays.

3432
03:34:29,920 --> 03:34:32,159
Speaker 4: Why because it's like a holy color or something.

3433
03:34:32,799 --> 03:34:36,239
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Obviously, you could say

3434
03:34:36,399 --> 03:34:42,360
like red was associated with royalty, which is why when

3435
03:34:42,399 --> 03:34:48,280
you look at our iconography. You see Christ whereas red underneath,

3436
03:34:48,479 --> 03:34:53,319
blue over that because he is God who has taken

3437
03:34:53,399 --> 03:35:01,239
on humanity. And then with the Theotokos, she wears blue

3438
03:35:01,360 --> 03:35:05,120
underneath and red over because she's human but has been

3439
03:35:05,200 --> 03:35:10,159
granted this royal status as the Mother of God, the

3440
03:35:10,280 --> 03:35:16,319
queen Mother by you know it's granted, right, But I'm

3441
03:35:16,399 --> 03:35:21,239
not sure that's just a slightly important speculation.

3442
03:35:21,440 --> 03:35:23,760
Speaker 4: In the Saints have not said to make fun of

3443
03:35:24,120 --> 03:35:27,399
Oh no, oh, you're saying, like our joke about the Islam. No,

3444
03:35:27,479 --> 03:35:30,159
we're making light of Islam. Okay, we're not making light

3445
03:35:30,360 --> 03:35:32,399
of the Holy Liturgy or anything else.

3446
03:35:32,559 --> 03:35:36,920
Speaker 2: I mean you would have to go argue with the

3447
03:35:37,000 --> 03:35:37,840
prophet Elijah.

3448
03:35:39,280 --> 03:35:47,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're fully making fun of Islam. We're not just

3449
03:35:47,479 --> 03:35:51,040
because we're using a reference. We're making fun of their

3450
03:35:51,440 --> 03:35:52,719
iteration of these things.

3451
03:35:52,760 --> 03:35:57,399
Speaker 2: Okay, Right, So that people draw conclusions, oh, he was

3452
03:35:57,479 --> 03:36:05,040
a redhead, I sincerely do that not impossible because you've

3453
03:36:05,079 --> 03:36:09,440
got this Indo European strand going from all the way

3454
03:36:09,479 --> 03:36:17,639
to northern India. So possible. But the courage not particularly known.

3455
03:36:18,200 --> 03:36:20,799
What is very emphasized in the hoodieth that he was

3456
03:36:21,200 --> 03:36:22,200
very very white.

3457
03:36:23,200 --> 03:36:26,760
Speaker 4: Are there even any historical references of very powerful people

3458
03:36:26,799 --> 03:36:30,399
who were redheads and had that very irritated skin. Look.

3459
03:36:31,799 --> 03:36:33,079
Genghis Khan was a redhead.

3460
03:36:35,200 --> 03:36:40,639
Speaker 2: Barbarossa, uh Friedrich Barbarossa, the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire.

3461
03:36:40,920 --> 03:36:46,280
Barbarossa is literally Italian for red beard, so he stunning

3462
03:36:47,479 --> 03:36:48,799
d Sims in our chat.

3463
03:36:50,639 --> 03:36:53,200
Speaker 4: D Sims is the only one I like that I

3464
03:36:53,319 --> 03:36:53,559
know of.

3465
03:36:55,120 --> 03:37:01,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there are some, I suppose and the Irish.

3466
03:37:03,360 --> 03:37:09,399
So as long again, there's very silly religion. That's why

3467
03:37:09,440 --> 03:37:11,479
I want to make it like a fun thing, because

3468
03:37:11,520 --> 03:37:15,239
there are there are silly aspects that aren't particularly fun.

3469
03:37:15,959 --> 03:37:18,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well let me know in advance. Because I

3470
03:37:18,639 --> 03:37:21,000
can animate too, Like if there's any like a break

3471
03:37:21,120 --> 03:37:23,680
time that I can make an animation that could potentially

3472
03:37:23,760 --> 03:37:28,799
get us killed, I should we should do that, Because

3473
03:37:29,319 --> 03:37:30,600
I can do that. You just got to give me

3474
03:37:30,680 --> 03:37:33,280
heads up, like maybe there's like a little section of

3475
03:37:33,360 --> 03:37:35,360
a minute that I can make something or.

3476
03:37:35,879 --> 03:37:39,799
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll have to calculate it without consulting you, because

3477
03:37:39,959 --> 03:37:42,799
I'd have to tell you what you need to know

3478
03:37:43,000 --> 03:37:44,440
without your knowing whether you are.

3479
03:37:44,360 --> 03:37:47,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, without me, well you might have to forfeit me

3480
03:37:47,440 --> 03:37:49,840
laughing one to one on the phone with you, and

3481
03:37:50,440 --> 03:37:52,639
I'll laugh again, of course, like you won't ruin the.

3482
03:37:53,399 --> 03:37:58,760
Speaker 2: Definite experience watching with friends, but I'll pick some out

3483
03:38:02,079 --> 03:38:04,799
I can give it, like general spoilers, like you have

3484
03:38:05,000 --> 03:38:10,479
no idea, how glorious the idea of how babies are born.

3485
03:38:11,120 --> 03:38:15,079
Mm hmmm, because women haven't wait, can't wait, there's a

3486
03:38:15,159 --> 03:38:16,639
male and the female spem.

3487
03:38:17,479 --> 03:38:18,440
Speaker 5: That's that.

3488
03:38:18,920 --> 03:38:23,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's actually it's actually funny because I just I

3489
03:38:23,319 --> 03:38:26,719
was thinking of a game where while you were talking,

3490
03:38:26,799 --> 03:38:29,920
I was playing a game with myself on Google trying

3491
03:38:29,959 --> 03:38:33,879
to write hadith about X whatever it is, and sperm

3492
03:38:34,040 --> 03:38:37,159
was one of the things I inserted, like hadith about sperm,

3493
03:38:37,399 --> 03:38:41,399
Hadeeth about donkeys, hoodieth about It's called hadith about is

3494
03:38:41,479 --> 03:38:43,680
the game I play, and I see if it comes

3495
03:38:43,799 --> 03:38:46,399
up as something. I think it's a fun game. They

3496
03:38:46,479 --> 03:38:49,159
have collections of it, you know, so be like a

3497
03:38:49,239 --> 03:38:54,399
home board game teeth or not. Is this in Hadeeth

3498
03:38:54,479 --> 03:38:57,239
or not? Right, you read something ridiculous like there's no way,

3499
03:38:57,520 --> 03:39:00,079
there's no way. You're like, oh, with the actual oh

3500
03:39:00,120 --> 03:39:03,120
he is everyone drinks you know, yeah.

3501
03:39:03,200 --> 03:39:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And by the way, all the things about like

3502
03:39:06,200 --> 03:39:09,399
sex and drinking and stuff that are prohibited are prohibited

3503
03:39:09,559 --> 03:39:10,239
at the moment.

3504
03:39:10,360 --> 03:39:13,040
Speaker 4: No, no, no, this is coping if you're defending right now. No,

3505
03:39:13,200 --> 03:39:15,280
we're not talking about liquid. We didn't say liquid. No

3506
03:39:15,520 --> 03:39:16,479
did we say liquid?

3507
03:39:17,280 --> 03:39:21,639
Speaker 2: Liquids that come together and make a child, and it

3508
03:39:21,760 --> 03:39:25,440
determines which one comes first, determines whom the child will resemble.

3509
03:39:26,360 --> 03:39:30,479
And this isn't this did exist in surrounding cultures.

3510
03:39:30,559 --> 03:39:33,040
Speaker 4: By the way, blood is liquid too, So I mean

3511
03:39:33,319 --> 03:39:34,719
you're trying to reduce it to some.

3512
03:39:34,799 --> 03:39:40,719
Speaker 2: More broad Well, the male sperm you can call it.

3513
03:39:40,959 --> 03:39:43,159
Speaker 4: Oh the are you he's saying it's he's saying you're

3514
03:39:43,239 --> 03:39:46,120
using the term sperm, and it's really they're using the

3515
03:39:46,239 --> 03:39:46,840
term liquid.

3516
03:39:46,920 --> 03:39:50,479
Speaker 2: Is that what it is? Here's the thing. Sperm basically

3517
03:39:50,559 --> 03:39:54,959
means seed. This was my famous statement when I was

3518
03:39:55,040 --> 03:39:59,840
on Jaystream. No one confuses like sperm meaning seed. No

3519
03:40:00,120 --> 03:40:01,639
going to say Johnny Apple sperm.

3520
03:40:02,920 --> 03:40:04,840
Speaker 4: They should They should from now on.

3521
03:40:05,079 --> 03:40:07,719
Speaker 2: Technically you could, but in English that's not how it works.

3522
03:40:07,760 --> 03:40:11,000
But sperm basically means seed. So there's a so you

3523
03:40:11,040 --> 03:40:14,440
can call it a liquid, but it's a seminus liquid.

3524
03:40:14,479 --> 03:40:17,559
You know, something that has to do with reproduction. It

3525
03:40:18,159 --> 03:40:22,159
describes that the male seed is thick and white, the

3526
03:40:22,239 --> 03:40:26,959
female seed is thin and yellow. So they're basically describing

3527
03:40:27,159 --> 03:40:33,559
urine and one of the pants one of the fame

3528
03:40:33,760 --> 03:40:39,360
favorite words of since we're enumerting your best friends the

3529
03:40:39,719 --> 03:40:44,200
lard king, so basically describing squirting as as some type

3530
03:40:44,200 --> 03:40:45,040
of seminal fluid.

3531
03:40:45,120 --> 03:40:49,239
Speaker 4: So it's ancient. So the modern take, you know, unfortunately,

3532
03:40:49,360 --> 03:40:54,920
we're we're, we're we're basically undated with it online. But

3533
03:40:55,079 --> 03:40:59,920
there's this, there's this this myth of quote squirting right

3534
03:41:00,000 --> 03:41:02,799
whatever it's you know, and it's been pissed all along,

3535
03:41:02,920 --> 03:41:05,600
and what you're saying it sounds like posh. Now, I

3536
03:41:05,639 --> 03:41:07,399
don't want to falsely accuse you of this, but it

3537
03:41:07,440 --> 03:41:09,559
sounds like you're blaming Islam for this myth.

3538
03:41:11,280 --> 03:41:13,280
Speaker 2: I may or may not, and I'm going to maintain

3539
03:41:13,440 --> 03:41:18,479
wait until next week when But it says that they

3540
03:41:18,600 --> 03:41:19,959
come together and that's how.

3541
03:41:19,920 --> 03:41:22,239
Speaker 5: You start heavy thing.

3542
03:41:24,479 --> 03:41:25,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, what's that?

3543
03:41:25,760 --> 03:41:25,920
Speaker 2: Is that?

3544
03:41:26,120 --> 03:41:27,920
Speaker 4: Male or female? We don't know, do we?

3545
03:41:28,079 --> 03:41:31,879
Speaker 2: I know? But embryology is definitely like reliant on like

3546
03:41:32,239 --> 03:41:36,680
very ancient medicinal knowledge. This is this isn't a fun part,

3547
03:41:36,799 --> 03:41:41,239
so I can say it here. Yeah, it also gets

3548
03:41:41,280 --> 03:41:46,440
where they stem from. But just so you know, just

3549
03:41:46,520 --> 03:41:49,399
so you know, male sperm does not come from the testicles.

3550
03:41:50,120 --> 03:41:51,959
That's that's what idiots.

3551
03:41:51,559 --> 03:41:53,719
Speaker 4: Think comes from the green.

3552
03:41:54,200 --> 03:41:56,399
Speaker 2: Now, interesting that this is what is long teaches. But

3553
03:41:56,520 --> 03:41:59,159
when they got African slaves, they knew how to castrate.

3554
03:42:00,680 --> 03:42:03,479
Speaker 4: Interesting, that's a weird thing to do when when the

3555
03:42:03,559 --> 03:42:04,639
first premise is true.

3556
03:42:05,159 --> 03:42:09,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but back to this which isn't again, this

3557
03:42:10,040 --> 03:42:12,319
isn't fun. It's a bit sad because that's how they

3558
03:42:12,399 --> 03:42:15,319
got the knowledge. But it shows how ridiculous it is.

3559
03:42:15,399 --> 03:42:20,680
They say that that's basically at the start of the

3560
03:42:21,000 --> 03:42:24,559
process of the formation of human being in the womb,

3561
03:42:24,600 --> 03:42:29,079
it's a blood clot and then it develops on and on,

3562
03:42:29,239 --> 03:42:32,040
you know, sids getting bones in the meat on the bones.

3563
03:42:34,440 --> 03:42:36,680
The reason I say it's sad is because a lot

3564
03:42:36,799 --> 03:42:42,600
of these speculations stem from knowledge of miscarriages, you know,

3565
03:42:43,040 --> 03:42:46,840
and after you see what comes out, you know after

3566
03:42:46,920 --> 03:42:51,479
a miscarriage, you know, you sort of have to work

3567
03:42:51,559 --> 03:42:57,959
with that. So they from squirting is from the hearts.

3568
03:43:01,879 --> 03:43:04,040
More ridiculous than that. It's so random. No one's going

3569
03:43:04,120 --> 03:43:06,799
to guess it unless you cheat and look it up

3570
03:43:07,399 --> 03:43:10,440
right or know it already, but you couldn't guess for

3571
03:43:10,520 --> 03:43:15,559
the life of you. Neither could I. But basically they

3572
03:43:15,639 --> 03:43:19,000
get this. You have Greek writings on this, you have

3573
03:43:19,120 --> 03:43:22,159
Persian writings on this. You know, they basically have an

3574
03:43:22,200 --> 03:43:27,840
idea that because if both animals and human beings have miscarriages,

3575
03:43:28,360 --> 03:43:35,239
you get this, you know, rejected fetus and it's just

3576
03:43:35,959 --> 03:43:40,200
bloody and gory, and that's they somehow deduced from that

3577
03:43:40,440 --> 03:43:42,879
or try to reverse engineer. Okay, so it started like

3578
03:43:42,959 --> 03:43:46,040
some type of blood and then develops more and more,

3579
03:43:46,879 --> 03:43:48,920
and if it fails at a certain point, you know,

3580
03:43:49,040 --> 03:43:51,079
we get this. But if it fully gets to the

3581
03:43:51,159 --> 03:43:57,200
point of development, then we get a human being, which

3582
03:43:57,319 --> 03:44:02,280
is not something I would say. So Greeks were retarded

3583
03:44:02,360 --> 03:44:06,079
because they couldn't figure it out. No, But the Quran,

3584
03:44:06,760 --> 03:44:09,440
which claims that it starts through a blood clot, the

3585
03:44:09,600 --> 03:44:14,120
Quran doesn't claim to be the musings of Greek philosophers

3586
03:44:14,920 --> 03:44:21,479
or Persians or Indians or whomever whoever. It claims to

3587
03:44:21,520 --> 03:44:25,079
be the revelation of an old knowing God. So that's

3588
03:44:25,120 --> 03:44:26,479
a problem for Islamon.

3589
03:44:27,040 --> 03:44:28,879
Speaker 4: Did you have this one planned? I hate to ruin

3590
03:44:28,920 --> 03:44:31,680
all your jokes ahead of time. Posh. But if a

3591
03:44:31,760 --> 03:44:33,520
man has sex with a sheep and one of the

3592
03:44:33,600 --> 03:44:37,479
thought was that sheep gives birth to a human, if

3593
03:44:37,520 --> 03:44:40,280
that's the case, if that happens, he can lead prayers.

3594
03:44:40,399 --> 03:44:42,159
Are you saying the sheep could lead prayers or the

3595
03:44:42,280 --> 03:44:47,159
man who actually produced a child through a sheep could

3596
03:44:47,239 --> 03:44:49,680
lead prayers. I'm hard to tell.

3597
03:44:50,319 --> 03:44:53,280
Speaker 2: That's not something I know. I have to look it

3598
03:44:53,399 --> 03:44:57,680
up because there are passages. Again, I won't be including

3599
03:44:57,760 --> 03:45:02,559
like gross gross things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to

3600
03:45:02,600 --> 03:45:05,120
give it light. But there is like, oh, you have

3601
03:45:05,280 --> 03:45:06,920
to do this ritual if you have sex with a

3602
03:45:07,040 --> 03:45:09,799
camel or something. If they're going on on the Hudge

3603
03:45:10,079 --> 03:45:12,079
or right the pilgrimage to Mecca.

3604
03:45:12,920 --> 03:45:15,120
Speaker 4: If you happen did need to have sex with a camel,

3605
03:45:15,639 --> 03:45:20,200
make sure to make these preparations correct. Is that where

3606
03:45:20,239 --> 03:45:21,360
camel skin came from?

3607
03:45:22,280 --> 03:45:29,200
Speaker 2: Uh? But there's a point which Mohammed says he sees

3608
03:45:29,280 --> 03:45:32,600
a very good looking woman and so there's a lot

3609
03:45:32,639 --> 03:45:34,680
to cheat on his wife. He runs to his wife

3610
03:45:34,760 --> 03:45:42,559
who is dealing with leather production, which involves done for

3611
03:45:42,639 --> 03:45:45,799
those who don't know, and you'urine, that's what people have.

3612
03:45:46,239 --> 03:45:49,479
So I'm not saying they were primitive. That's something nowadays

3613
03:45:49,559 --> 03:45:54,000
can deal with you to advanced chemistry. And he just

3614
03:45:55,440 --> 03:45:59,399
goes on at her. Thank god.

3615
03:46:01,520 --> 03:46:02,159
Speaker 4: Wait, when is this.

3616
03:46:03,680 --> 03:46:06,840
Speaker 2: One of the most disgusting smells you could imagine? What

3617
03:46:07,040 --> 03:46:12,520
is like the leather production, leather work, like the leather tanning.

3618
03:46:12,600 --> 03:46:15,040
Speaker 4: I suppose that's what my last name is, posh, it's

3619
03:46:15,079 --> 03:46:18,879
an insult to me. What that my last name? My

3620
03:46:19,000 --> 03:46:21,680
real last name is leather worker in Italian?

3621
03:46:22,280 --> 03:46:25,319
Speaker 2: Oh, I never can remember your last name.

3622
03:46:26,600 --> 03:46:33,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, I tell you that. I didn't tell you the

3623
03:46:33,159 --> 03:46:35,799
time I went to Italy and I I ran around

3624
03:46:35,920 --> 03:46:38,840
the town and I kept running into these little little

3625
03:46:38,879 --> 03:46:40,680
shops that had my name on it, and I showed it,

3626
03:46:41,040 --> 03:46:44,559
show the shop owner my license. That's like equivalent to

3627
03:46:44,680 --> 03:46:47,319
coming to America and going into a Ralph's. Posh, you

3628
03:46:47,319 --> 03:46:50,399
don't know. Ralph's is just basically grocery store and bragging

3629
03:46:50,479 --> 03:46:53,840
to the clerk that your your name is Ralph. It's meaningless.

3630
03:46:54,079 --> 03:46:56,319
Speaker 2: It's American to go.

3631
03:46:59,159 --> 03:47:01,959
Speaker 4: Look at my name. It means you're the name of

3632
03:47:02,040 --> 03:47:02,600
your store.

3633
03:47:03,120 --> 03:47:04,479
Speaker 2: You're like the thirtieth guy.

3634
03:47:04,600 --> 03:47:06,959
Speaker 4: And yeah, they're just like, get out of here, dude.

3635
03:47:07,879 --> 03:47:13,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well that's good to know.

3636
03:47:13,639 --> 03:47:14,959
Speaker 4: We need to come up with a good name of

3637
03:47:15,040 --> 03:47:19,159
this stream. It's gonna be on your channel, correct, Yeah, okay, good.

3638
03:47:19,319 --> 03:47:25,959
So potentially me, you, Andrew and and jay Uh manifesting

3639
03:47:26,399 --> 03:47:31,719
absurd hadiths and references perhaps in the Quran and maybe

3640
03:47:31,799 --> 03:47:35,559
adding some visuals to it, you know, yours truly will

3641
03:47:35,600 --> 03:47:36,040
help with that.

3642
03:47:37,120 --> 03:47:41,079
Speaker 2: So there's one I wouldn't conclude for the disgustingness. But

3643
03:47:41,239 --> 03:47:45,760
he says nothing can make water impure. So there's an

3644
03:47:45,799 --> 03:47:50,520
episode where he does his ablution in like a like

3645
03:47:50,639 --> 03:47:54,719
a pit that's full of water, but also have corpses

3646
03:47:54,799 --> 03:47:58,040
of dogs and like we're people where women throw their

3647
03:47:58,079 --> 03:48:08,760
menstrual rags. So he's like, that's it's not even menstrual

3648
03:48:08,920 --> 03:48:19,319
rat stop. Uh. He's washing himself with that and people,

3649
03:48:19,600 --> 03:48:23,000
what are you doing? He says, nothing can make water impure? M.

3650
03:48:23,639 --> 03:48:26,559
He also has a theory that you don't have infectious

3651
03:48:26,680 --> 03:48:29,360
diseases because how we get the first disease?

3652
03:48:30,319 --> 03:48:32,399
Speaker 4: Right? Actually, it makes me want to look now that

3653
03:48:32,479 --> 03:48:35,280
I have this this thing called I want to start

3654
03:48:35,280 --> 03:48:38,159
an app. The hadith says could you believe it? Or

3655
03:48:38,200 --> 03:48:45,479
something like that hadith about drinking urine. I mean we

3656
03:48:45,559 --> 03:48:47,639
can just go that's fair right.

3657
03:48:48,319 --> 03:48:53,200
Speaker 2: Different different yeah, different, including a w h O but

3658
03:48:53,360 --> 03:48:56,760
who cares? But different like charities and like you know

3659
03:48:57,879 --> 03:49:03,879
that doctors, boarders whatever. I had to say, please stop

3660
03:49:04,000 --> 03:49:05,360
drinking county.

3661
03:49:05,799 --> 03:49:09,360
Speaker 4: Right, stop it please or not? Yeaheeth or not. That's

3662
03:49:09,360 --> 03:49:12,120
a good one, critic, that's the one that's good either

3663
03:49:12,319 --> 03:49:15,079
not downloaded, it's free on the app, you know, hadeeth

3664
03:49:15,159 --> 03:49:18,040
or not and you have to vote right, Oh my gosh,

3665
03:49:18,280 --> 03:49:21,520
can you imagine like like, well, the problem is with

3666
03:49:21,680 --> 03:49:24,159
given time, people would just memorize too much and it

3667
03:49:24,200 --> 03:49:25,600
would like it have it would.

3668
03:49:25,440 --> 03:49:27,760
Speaker 2: Have a shelf life quickly, and we have to get

3669
03:49:27,840 --> 03:49:28,520
someone like Sam.

3670
03:49:29,319 --> 03:49:32,000
Speaker 4: Right right, right, But imagine the rating like how many

3671
03:49:32,079 --> 03:49:34,559
you got? Right? And people are high rating on the

3672
03:49:34,680 --> 03:49:36,959
app as like people they're like, oh ship, you got

3673
03:49:37,159 --> 03:49:38,879
like a thousand and twenty on.

3674
03:49:39,799 --> 03:49:43,639
Speaker 2: Whether you want to post it because yeah, totally maybe

3675
03:49:43,680 --> 03:49:44,639
it's right.

3676
03:49:47,520 --> 03:49:52,239
Speaker 4: Preparing for sex with camel.

3677
03:49:53,319 --> 03:49:58,000
Speaker 2: And here's the thing. Here's the thing. These people like

3678
03:50:00,079 --> 03:50:05,559
Kika Chuw and her job Ada Jazz, like they want

3679
03:50:05,639 --> 03:50:08,280
you to think that Islam is about monotheism VI. You

3680
03:50:08,479 --> 03:50:11,840
just accept one god, you know, Yeah, that's it. That's

3681
03:50:11,959 --> 03:50:18,639
that's that's very manipulative. No, this is the argument that was.

3682
03:50:19,319 --> 03:50:26,079
Rachel retweeted my response to Lauren Chen. Yeah, the chapter,

3683
03:50:28,319 --> 03:50:32,520
but Lauren shen saying, oh do you know that Arab

3684
03:50:32,639 --> 03:50:35,639
Christians called God a lah? So you shouldn't make fun

3685
03:50:35,680 --> 03:50:39,959
of Allah? Like and I not nothing personally against Lauren Chen,

3686
03:50:40,440 --> 03:50:43,760
like she she is getting progressively more based.

3687
03:50:44,440 --> 03:50:47,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's still a female though, so she can never

3688
03:50:47,600 --> 03:50:48,440
make the full jump.

3689
03:50:49,520 --> 03:51:06,520
Speaker 2: He's like half Slantai. That's just one of them. Okay,

3690
03:51:06,559 --> 03:51:08,920
we're not going to get banned for anti semitism, but.

3691
03:51:10,520 --> 03:51:13,319
Speaker 4: I want why want Lauren Chen come on my podcast?

3692
03:51:13,440 --> 03:51:25,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, all right, Yeah, she's half Oh God,

3693
03:51:31,559 --> 03:51:34,520
let's make let's make a video so everyone knows how

3694
03:51:34,600 --> 03:51:39,159
to defend disposition?

3695
03:51:40,440 --> 03:51:43,799
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, did you watch the stream on dispensation? It

3696
03:51:43,920 --> 03:51:47,520
was really serious, really rigorous, really in depth. Jay was

3697
03:51:47,559 --> 03:51:49,479
on I don't know, did you stick around when Jay

3698
03:51:49,600 --> 03:51:52,399
left though? I don't know, I don't know what happened there.

3699
03:51:53,200 --> 03:51:56,719
Speaker 2: We're gonna have to private this and I'm gonna chop.

3700
03:51:57,040 --> 03:51:59,479
Speaker 4: It's gonna just be an abrupt chop. When Jay lean

3701
03:51:59,559 --> 03:52:02,840
to'd be like, all right, some stuff coming up in Nashville.

3702
03:52:03,520 --> 03:52:06,000
Speaker 2: You gotta you're gonna pop up, you know. Are you

3703
03:52:06,079 --> 03:52:07,200
sure you want to continue?

3704
03:52:07,520 --> 03:52:07,719
Speaker 9: Yeah?

3705
03:52:07,760 --> 03:52:10,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, would you like to continue? Please check? You know,

3706
03:52:10,479 --> 03:52:11,879
please is this a rope?

3707
03:52:11,959 --> 03:52:12,159
Speaker 2: You know?

3708
03:52:13,079 --> 03:52:15,600
Speaker 4: Please select where a bike is on the image?

3709
03:52:16,479 --> 03:52:21,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. Maybe maybe you will need to actually chop it

3710
03:52:21,600 --> 03:52:27,319
up as to be shareable. That's true because we're getting

3711
03:52:27,360 --> 03:52:28,600
into like, what four hours.

3712
03:52:29,760 --> 03:52:32,000
Speaker 4: It's insane, so it's so counterintuitive.

3713
03:52:32,639 --> 03:52:35,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So when someone sends me like four hours,

3714
03:52:35,399 --> 03:52:37,399
like I better be just look at it.

3715
03:52:37,959 --> 03:52:38,879
Speaker 4: You're like, what are you kidding me?

3716
03:52:39,799 --> 03:52:42,879
Speaker 2: And then I need to think, like, like, if I'm

3717
03:52:42,879 --> 03:52:43,760
going to the gym.

3718
03:52:43,680 --> 03:52:46,719
Speaker 4: I might yeah, yeah, I'll chop that part off, make

3719
03:52:46,760 --> 03:52:49,200
that members only and be like I'd need this section

3720
03:52:49,360 --> 03:52:52,799
where Posh and jimbabber kind of drunk making fun of

3721
03:52:52,920 --> 03:52:58,920
Asian people. The most important part of it about the dispensationalist. Amazing,

3722
03:52:59,200 --> 03:53:00,760
really in depth informative.

3723
03:53:02,120 --> 03:53:05,639
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so back to the point she was talking

3724
03:53:05,639 --> 03:53:08,479
about a lot, and I said, that made the point

3725
03:53:08,520 --> 03:53:12,760
about bail. You know, bail just means Lord, and worshiping

3726
03:53:12,799 --> 03:53:16,440
bail means sacrificing children. Allah is Lord. It's one of

3727
03:53:16,479 --> 03:53:19,479
his titles. So sacrificing children to bail is worshiping a

3728
03:53:19,559 --> 03:53:23,159
lot right right, Logically, this is the logic we're going with.

3729
03:53:23,239 --> 03:53:26,239
And people started disputing with me, and then someone from

3730
03:53:26,920 --> 03:53:33,479
from our community, Yeah, just agreed, you know, And I

3731
03:53:34,120 --> 03:53:38,440
came up with another example.

3732
03:53:45,399 --> 03:53:48,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jimbob, I found this, you know, I

3733
03:53:48,600 --> 03:53:51,360
was just on your computer and it says it says

3734
03:53:52,159 --> 03:53:56,479
sex with camels drinking urine? What too is? What does

3735
03:53:56,559 --> 03:54:04,520
Martha say about Seamen's prep it's preparation for stream with posh?

3736
03:54:05,360 --> 03:54:06,760
With posh, I swear.

3737
03:54:10,000 --> 03:54:11,799
Speaker 2: With Andrew it's more believable with.

3738
03:54:12,239 --> 03:54:15,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe that's the trick of Islam, tricking Christians into

3739
03:54:15,319 --> 03:54:17,000
looking up really messed up ship.

3740
03:54:19,120 --> 03:54:20,440
Speaker 2: Standing in the bi.

3741
03:54:22,120 --> 03:54:22,840
Speaker 4: Only counts.

3742
03:54:25,760 --> 03:54:29,639
Speaker 2: Oh, I know where David would an aposti prophet. There's

3743
03:54:29,719 --> 03:54:36,559
a common commentator like a regular yeah runs who goes

3744
03:54:36,639 --> 03:54:38,600
by only goats?

3745
03:54:39,200 --> 03:54:40,280
Speaker 4: Mm hm, I've seen that.

3746
03:54:41,559 --> 03:54:44,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, so so it's been done with goats.

3747
03:54:48,479 --> 03:54:50,200
Speaker 4: The rapture is going to happen by the time the

3748
03:54:50,239 --> 03:54:52,639
stream is over. Yeah, based if we keep talking like this.

3749
03:54:53,239 --> 03:54:57,440
Speaker 2: Is now saying Jesus come quickly right right? Yet?

3750
03:54:58,000 --> 03:55:00,399
Speaker 5: Stop it stop?

3751
03:55:04,120 --> 03:55:04,600
Speaker 4: Oh yeah?

3752
03:55:04,639 --> 03:55:04,959
Speaker 2: Where it is?

3753
03:55:05,200 --> 03:55:05,360
Speaker 7: Yeah?

3754
03:55:05,440 --> 03:55:07,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, is there anything else?

3755
03:55:07,200 --> 03:55:07,399
Speaker 5: Posh?

3756
03:55:07,440 --> 03:55:10,920
Speaker 4: We should close this out? I hope not. Yeah, yeah,

3757
03:55:12,239 --> 03:55:14,920
thanks for the support new members. Thank you. Shout out

3758
03:55:14,959 --> 03:55:18,520
to everyone who bob Chatted, super Chatted and became a member,

3759
03:55:18,559 --> 03:55:21,360
anyone who bought something unmade by jimbob dot com. The

3760
03:55:21,520 --> 03:55:26,120
memes keep coming, the streams make the memes apparently, Posh

3761
03:55:26,200 --> 03:55:28,559
and I will announce I'll talk with them offline when

3762
03:55:28,719 --> 03:55:30,879
we set a date. I think, Posh, we should set

3763
03:55:30,920 --> 03:55:34,000
it at least a week ahead of time, if not more,

3764
03:55:34,760 --> 03:55:38,200
because of the anticipation of such a funny concept and

3765
03:55:38,399 --> 03:55:40,520
the kind of ship we're going to get back from

3766
03:55:41,520 --> 03:55:42,079
in the stream.

3767
03:55:42,319 --> 03:55:45,479
Speaker 2: I constantly think, Okay, maybe we should add this. Maybe

3768
03:55:45,479 --> 03:55:48,159
it's too much, so I'm ridiculous from that manner.

3769
03:55:48,680 --> 03:55:50,520
Speaker 4: No, it's gonna be great. It's gonna be your most

3770
03:55:50,600 --> 03:55:53,920
highly populated stream. Jab can you look up Sarah sixty

3771
03:55:54,000 --> 03:55:56,200
five in the Koran and tell us what you think

3772
03:55:56,239 --> 03:55:57,319
it says, Well, well.

3773
03:55:58,239 --> 03:56:01,600
Speaker 2: It's already been addressed all this channel with what is it?

3774
03:56:01,840 --> 03:56:07,280
Sam Fellow because it talks about a divorce and it

3775
03:56:07,360 --> 03:56:10,239
says when you can divorce. So for women who menstruate,

3776
03:56:11,040 --> 03:56:17,120
you have to wait three menstrual cycles. And for those

3777
03:56:17,440 --> 03:56:21,479
who are too old to menstruate, and those who have

3778
03:56:21,719 --> 03:56:26,719
not yet menstruated, the wait period is three months.

3779
03:56:27,280 --> 03:56:31,440
Speaker 4: So they're assuming that your wife is pre menstrual, which means.

3780
03:56:31,319 --> 03:56:34,079
Speaker 2: Pre it gonna be any of them, so at least

3781
03:56:34,159 --> 03:56:38,040
they've got that. But someone like I know Mohammed Hijab

3782
03:56:38,159 --> 03:56:41,200
went to a speaker's corner and started arguing with people

3783
03:56:41,399 --> 03:56:45,399
who are what they call Koran only Muslims and quoted

3784
03:56:45,479 --> 03:56:53,399
this Aya means verse, sorrow means chapter. He says it

3785
03:56:53,959 --> 03:56:59,159
allows for a severe form of pedophilure. So that's how

3786
03:56:59,200 --> 03:57:01,719
he's trying to defend hadith. He says, you need hadith

3787
03:57:02,040 --> 03:57:06,719
to stop this hardith are not much better, but there

3788
03:57:06,799 --> 03:57:13,159
is no lower limit. So it says, you know, those

3789
03:57:13,200 --> 03:57:17,040
who are too old or those who have not yet menstruated,

3790
03:57:17,159 --> 03:57:21,799
and all the commentaries up clear that it's about too

3791
03:57:21,920 --> 03:57:26,360
young to have you know, achieved maturity physically to stop.

3792
03:57:27,399 --> 03:57:30,280
So you don't have to look it up. I I

3793
03:57:30,920 --> 03:57:32,680
know that one. It's a very famous one.

3794
03:57:34,239 --> 03:57:36,639
Speaker 4: You want to, Oh, I see you were You wanted

3795
03:57:36,680 --> 03:57:38,360
me to just look it up and kind of react.

3796
03:57:38,479 --> 03:57:39,079
Sorry about that.

3797
03:57:39,600 --> 03:57:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had we had someone trying to filibuster that interpretation.

3798
03:57:44,159 --> 03:57:46,719
But it's very clear. It's just people who who will

3799
03:57:46,760 --> 03:57:48,280
tell you if it's a hard if we don't have

3800
03:57:48,319 --> 03:57:51,120
to accept it, it's not the Quran, but when it's

3801
03:57:51,159 --> 03:57:53,760
the Krano will mangle it up to make it seem

3802
03:57:53,799 --> 03:57:54,959
like it's not saying what it's saying.

3803
03:57:55,559 --> 03:58:00,000
Speaker 4: Posh, Do you think arguing against Islam or arguing again

3804
03:58:00,000 --> 03:58:03,040
against atheism are they Do you think that two are

3805
03:58:03,159 --> 03:58:10,680
equal in priority? Because I've been I've been struggling with

3806
03:58:10,719 --> 03:58:13,280
this because I have such a fun niche of just

3807
03:58:13,719 --> 03:58:17,280
attacking atheism because it's so stupid. But now you're proving

3808
03:58:17,360 --> 03:58:20,879
that there's something actually dumber than that that happens to

3809
03:58:20,959 --> 03:58:24,440
be more cohesive somehow. Isn't that interesting that, like, something

3810
03:58:24,559 --> 03:58:26,280
dumber can be morehesive.

3811
03:58:25,879 --> 03:58:30,760
Speaker 2: Because its dogmatic and dogma allows for cohesion. Atheism is

3812
03:58:31,399 --> 03:58:32,520
just like, well, there's.

3813
03:58:32,399 --> 03:58:33,760
Speaker 4: No god empirical dogma.

3814
03:58:34,000 --> 03:58:38,159
Speaker 2: That's you can be a pine Creek doug.

3815
03:58:38,799 --> 03:58:40,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, but.

3816
03:58:42,479 --> 03:58:47,159
Speaker 2: You can also be you know, some complete degenerate. So

3817
03:58:47,399 --> 03:58:49,840
that's why we talk about cohesion because that's the only

3818
03:58:49,920 --> 03:58:53,280
claim of atheism. It doesn't mean although most of them

3819
03:58:53,399 --> 03:58:56,799
end up some type of ridiculous progressive. Yeah, you don't

3820
03:58:56,840 --> 03:58:59,600
have to. You can be just the most, you know,

3821
03:59:00,079 --> 03:59:03,959
a racialist, sexist, or whatever. Like a person, it has

3822
03:59:04,079 --> 03:59:06,719
no bearing on it. You would have to take a

3823
03:59:06,920 --> 03:59:12,200
separate position in order to fight for or against.

3824
03:59:12,600 --> 03:59:15,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, do you agree with this statement? Is it easier

3825
03:59:15,799 --> 03:59:17,680
because I talked about this and I actually took the

3826
03:59:17,680 --> 03:59:19,879
opposite approach, But I don't know. Is my impulse it

3827
03:59:20,000 --> 03:59:22,959
was like I thought it was harder, might be harder

3828
03:59:23,040 --> 03:59:26,600
to convert a Muslim because you're really probably talking about

3829
03:59:26,680 --> 03:59:32,000
a whole history inherited view of dogma that's much harder

3830
03:59:32,040 --> 03:59:34,840
to get over than let's say, an apathetic atheist who's

3831
03:59:34,879 --> 03:59:38,120
just kind of like bitchy about gods in general. But

3832
03:59:38,319 --> 03:59:42,399
maybe I'm wrong. Maybe because someone presupposes God, it's easier

3833
03:59:42,479 --> 03:59:45,680
to make a bridge than someone who presupposes non God.

3834
03:59:46,280 --> 03:59:47,959
I actually don't even know how to come to the

3835
03:59:48,040 --> 03:59:48,920
conclusion about this.

3836
03:59:49,959 --> 03:59:53,680
Speaker 2: I think it's a pointless thing to ponder because if

3837
03:59:53,719 --> 03:59:56,399
someone comes from a strict Muslim family, and from a

3838
03:59:56,520 --> 04:00:00,319
Muslim family, as I said earlier on when Jay was on,

3839
04:00:01,399 --> 04:00:05,920
like they have a sense of duty towards their family,

3840
04:00:06,760 --> 04:00:12,319
they have a fear of retaliation potentially because apostasy is

3841
04:00:12,360 --> 04:00:15,959
punishable by death, and that can even affect the family,

3842
04:00:16,200 --> 04:00:20,719
not you know, maybe mob violence or something. I don't

3843
04:00:20,760 --> 04:00:27,000
believe it's prescribed to you know, punish the family, but

3844
04:00:27,239 --> 04:00:33,040
it might happen, you know, by osmosis or something. But again,

3845
04:00:33,159 --> 04:00:36,040
if you have some you know, well a Muslim, you know,

3846
04:00:36,559 --> 04:00:38,639
which is a lot of them, like here in Serbia

3847
04:00:38,760 --> 04:00:42,120
Muslim we have a part that is majority of Muslim I.

3848
04:00:42,440 --> 04:00:46,120
Basically they don't eat pork and that's about it. They

3849
04:00:46,239 --> 04:00:49,399
get wasted all the time, so alcohol isn't even the thing.

3850
04:00:49,959 --> 04:00:55,239
But you know, a person like that, we had I

3851
04:00:55,399 --> 04:00:58,159
was on with Garrett Dawn a couple of weeks ago

3852
04:00:58,559 --> 04:01:00,959
and we had this guy who grew up Muslim in

3853
04:01:01,000 --> 04:01:05,239
Bosnia moved to London to work and we had to

3854
04:01:05,280 --> 04:01:06,959
talk with him and he was very open to it

3855
04:01:07,440 --> 04:01:10,680
because it didn't grow up in a dogmatic family. As

3856
04:01:10,719 --> 04:01:15,479
long as it's rather pacified in our parts because we

3857
04:01:15,639 --> 04:01:20,399
went through communism and communism clammed down and religiosity and

3858
04:01:21,120 --> 04:01:25,159
with the resurgence of Christianity with Orthodoxy, it doesn't produce

3859
04:01:25,639 --> 04:01:32,280
you know, like extremism. It can, but it usually has

3860
04:01:32,319 --> 04:01:34,280
to be paired with like nationalism.

3861
04:01:35,840 --> 04:01:38,520
Speaker 4: Ye wait a second, hold on posh and I think

3862
04:01:38,559 --> 04:01:41,079
this might be the first thing we really disagree with.

3863
04:01:41,879 --> 04:01:43,319
What's wrong with extremism.

3864
04:01:45,719 --> 04:01:50,079
Speaker 2: I'm not saying there's wrong, something morally wrong, potentially, because

3865
04:01:50,639 --> 04:01:53,159
it would have to depend on what you view as moderate,

3866
04:01:53,360 --> 04:01:57,920
and that's going to and even moderates can be extreme.

3867
04:01:58,159 --> 04:02:02,360
Like if you think it's a moderate position to trans

3868
04:02:02,600 --> 04:02:07,239
the children, I think you will be extremist. I think

3869
04:02:07,719 --> 04:02:10,600
the properly moderate thing would be okay if there are

3870
04:02:10,680 --> 04:02:14,239
children struggling with the gender identity. You know, it could

3871
04:02:14,280 --> 04:02:16,120
be a lot of factors, you know, lack of a

3872
04:02:16,840 --> 04:02:20,760
father figure or a mother figure, some type of trauma

3873
04:02:20,920 --> 04:02:24,200
or something. So yes, I think it's I think another

3874
04:02:24,319 --> 04:02:26,239
extreme would be just you know, it's not beating the

3875
04:02:26,360 --> 04:02:30,959
child or something, just enforce it, you know, by ignoring

3876
04:02:31,079 --> 04:02:33,280
the fact that there's probably something wrong it needs to

3877
04:02:33,360 --> 04:02:37,840
be helped and healed. But when we're talking about Islamic

3878
04:02:37,959 --> 04:02:44,399
extremism or even like it's Orthodox extremism, would be like monasticism.

3879
04:02:44,520 --> 04:02:46,479
Speaker 4: Right, right, There's no other way because it wouldn't be

3880
04:02:46,600 --> 04:02:53,799
based in immediacy cultural revolution kind of like stuff.

3881
04:02:53,879 --> 04:03:00,159
Speaker 2: Right, you can form a certain type of zelotry if

3882
04:03:00,639 --> 04:03:02,479
if you combine it with a certain type of.

3883
04:03:02,559 --> 04:03:06,319
Speaker 4: Nationalism zeal Like if you took an orthodox zeal like

3884
04:03:06,479 --> 04:03:09,680
New Convert zeal instead of going to the church, they

3885
04:03:09,760 --> 04:03:12,639
took their zeal and impaired it with like a groper.

3886
04:03:14,200 --> 04:03:20,840
Speaker 2: Exactly if you Orthodoxy is like a cultural marker, you know,

3887
04:03:20,959 --> 04:03:23,559
you follow, you know, you go to church and everything,

3888
04:03:23,639 --> 04:03:26,799
but like the theology doesn't particularly matter. Matter is just

3889
04:03:27,159 --> 04:03:31,639
what you are, what you subscribe to. Sure, and I

3890
04:03:31,840 --> 04:03:40,159
think it's outstandingly improper to go Yeah, and Zealots were

3891
04:03:40,440 --> 04:03:43,040
literally these types of people, like people who would kill

3892
04:03:43,959 --> 04:03:47,120
Roman officials to try and get it.

3893
04:03:47,159 --> 04:03:50,200
Speaker 4: I'd be a Zealot, I honestly, you know. You know Peterson,

3894
04:03:50,440 --> 04:03:52,239
there's a clip of him being like, I'm not sure

3895
04:03:52,319 --> 04:03:57,200
what I would do under the circumstances. Sometimes when I

3896
04:03:57,280 --> 04:04:00,920
look at culture, I do have this, you know, the

3897
04:04:01,079 --> 04:04:03,680
dark side of me goes. I may you know, given

3898
04:04:03,719 --> 04:04:08,559
the right circumstances, I might actually be drawn to sort

3899
04:04:08,600 --> 04:04:11,200
of active xelotry. I mean, just have to admit it.

3900
04:04:11,319 --> 04:04:14,120
That's just how I feel. Well now, I would like

3901
04:04:14,200 --> 04:04:17,000
to fight it and like call Posh and Jay and

3902
04:04:17,559 --> 04:04:20,399
my brothers and be like, hey, walk me out of this.

3903
04:04:20,559 --> 04:04:22,159
But I'd be lying to say I didn't have like

3904
04:04:22,200 --> 04:04:26,239
an impulse toward well, you know something, Sometimes you just

3905
04:04:26,399 --> 04:04:29,159
want to take the you know, you just.

3906
04:04:29,239 --> 04:04:33,479
Speaker 2: Want to the thing people are saying in the comments

3907
04:04:33,639 --> 04:04:37,479
in the chat zealot, I'm a zealot. That's because nowadays

3908
04:04:37,520 --> 04:04:45,000
we see zeal as basically commitment. You know, I strongly

3909
04:04:45,120 --> 04:04:47,680
believe in this. I won't compromise it. That's not what

3910
04:04:47,840 --> 04:04:48,440
zelot meant.

3911
04:04:49,000 --> 04:04:50,360
Speaker 4: Now, that's just conviction.

3912
04:04:50,799 --> 04:04:56,280
Speaker 2: Basically like a like a terrorist group speak. So unless

3913
04:04:56,319 --> 04:04:59,239
you think you're going to be I shouldn't say it.

3914
04:04:59,319 --> 04:05:01,600
Speaker 4: Maybe now I really have to edit the stream.

3915
04:05:03,079 --> 04:05:06,319
Speaker 2: So unless you're thinking of going violent, Like you're not

3916
04:05:06,440 --> 04:05:11,639
a zealot in the classical sense, but if you're a

3917
04:05:11,760 --> 04:05:14,719
zealot in the modern sense, great, have all the zeal

3918
04:05:14,760 --> 04:05:18,319
in the world for the Lord. I support it.

3919
04:05:19,600 --> 04:05:23,399
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, anything else you want, I'm gonna start

3920
04:05:23,440 --> 04:05:25,239
shutting this down. And heard my family come back in.

3921
04:05:25,399 --> 04:05:26,559
We have to go somewhere.

3922
04:05:28,639 --> 04:05:31,440
Speaker 2: Less fully unawares of my own life.

3923
04:05:31,959 --> 04:05:37,840
Speaker 4: Uh go follow the posh redneck over YouTube. We I

3924
04:05:37,959 --> 04:05:40,159
will post it when he has a thumbnail. If you

3925
04:05:40,200 --> 04:05:41,959
need help with that posh, I'd like to make a

3926
04:05:42,000 --> 04:05:46,200
good thumbnail. If you want for that stream. It's so funny.

3927
04:05:46,879 --> 04:05:48,639
Speaker 2: Well we'll figure it out. If you say you need

3928
04:05:48,719 --> 04:05:52,280
a week notice, we'll we'll do it for not the

3929
04:05:52,360 --> 04:05:56,680
next week, but the one after. Because it's so bloody hot,

3930
04:05:57,120 --> 04:06:00,879
I can't do anything serious, literally one hundred and ten.

3931
04:06:01,399 --> 04:06:07,920
That's aximal, like seventy minimal, disgusting, Just everything is sticky.

3932
04:06:08,120 --> 04:06:16,559
And but I might go live on the weekend talk

3933
04:06:16,600 --> 04:06:21,239
about something less, less academic, Like I've been thinking about

3934
04:06:21,280 --> 04:06:25,719
how there are no more classes in the classical sense.

3935
04:06:26,520 --> 04:06:29,680
We're all middle class basically just depends on how much

3936
04:06:29,719 --> 04:06:33,799
money you make, because that's an interesting you make. That's

3937
04:06:33,840 --> 04:06:38,280
what we've got. But that's true, and people like Jimmy

3938
04:06:38,360 --> 04:06:41,680
Dare and all these people are trying to we need

3939
04:06:41,760 --> 04:06:43,799
to unite as a working class. Doesn't matter if you

3940
04:06:43,920 --> 04:06:46,600
are a progressive or a Trump supporter. You know, we

3941
04:06:46,680 --> 04:06:49,840
need to fight the system. And I'm thinking you can't

3942
04:06:49,879 --> 04:06:53,520
really make a movement out of Hey, we make roughly

3943
04:06:53,600 --> 04:06:54,639
the same amount of money.

3944
04:06:55,120 --> 04:06:56,840
Speaker 4: Let's get together, right, Yeah.

3945
04:06:56,760 --> 04:06:59,639
Speaker 2: You can make a negative case for fighting the system,

3946
04:07:00,159 --> 04:07:02,799
but as I said, you, if you succeed now you

3947
04:07:02,840 --> 04:07:07,319
have to implement a different system. Yeah, all disagreeing view

3948
04:07:07,600 --> 04:07:08,280
it's so true.

3949
04:07:08,440 --> 04:07:11,479
Speaker 4: It's very true. I always say that you could never

3950
04:07:11,639 --> 04:07:14,239
take the low class out of me, because if I'm

3951
04:07:14,639 --> 04:07:16,959
suddenly in Dad with a million dollars, I'll still be

3952
04:07:17,079 --> 04:07:19,879
following the odd person around the party room.

3953
04:07:20,159 --> 04:07:20,319
Speaker 2: You know.

3954
04:07:20,559 --> 04:07:24,879
Speaker 4: Oh is that shrimp like like classless, like just eating

3955
04:07:24,959 --> 04:07:25,719
off of plates?

3956
04:07:27,000 --> 04:07:31,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but so many technology has changed so many historical

3957
04:07:31,239 --> 04:07:35,760
realities that there is no such thing as classes as

3958
04:07:36,040 --> 04:07:37,639
as mocks would have described them.

3959
04:07:38,239 --> 04:07:42,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's good. We'll talk offline posh about the

3960
04:07:42,520 --> 04:07:46,479
the Islam. I think that's hilarious idea. I don't think

3961
04:07:46,479 --> 04:07:49,799
it's done quite. It hasn't really been done because most

3962
04:07:49,840 --> 04:07:52,360
of it's so serious. Oh, let's debate Islam. Let's get

3963
04:07:52,440 --> 04:07:53,000
really into it.

3964
04:07:53,120 --> 04:07:58,399
Speaker 2: But this is going to be I had a woman

3965
04:07:58,520 --> 04:08:01,680
like ripped by camel because she was mocking him. Like,

3966
04:08:02,360 --> 04:08:03,000
people go for this.

3967
04:08:03,120 --> 04:08:06,479
Speaker 4: That's actually actually that's pretty fun. That's actually fret fun.

3968
04:08:07,319 --> 04:08:12,079
See I find that funny. So we'll include that. Uh okay,

3969
04:08:12,200 --> 04:08:14,440
so yeah, go follow the posh redneck shout out to

3970
04:08:14,559 --> 04:08:17,079
Jade Eyer for jumping out. I appreciate that. I'll keep

3971
04:08:17,120 --> 04:08:21,319
this up. I'll review it. I might uh repost sections.

3972
04:08:21,360 --> 04:08:26,079
So it's easily consumed. And now and uh, I think

3973
04:08:26,159 --> 04:08:29,280
that's it for me. I'm gonna play us out with

3974
04:08:30,079 --> 04:08:31,920
what I brought us in with, which is.

3975
04:08:32,760 --> 04:09:02,319
Speaker 15: God bless you posh, see you many.

3976
04:08:53,639 --> 04:08:53,719
Speaker 9: Ye.

3977
04:08:58,840 --> 04:09:04,600
Speaker 1: When it's trying man and Dreda, I shall play. Made

3978
04:09:04,639 --> 04:09:08,280
that out of play. And when it's crying ready and Trada,

3979
04:09:08,440 --> 04:09:11,399
I shall play. It has a lovely body. It's with

3980
04:09:11,600 --> 04:09:14,719
Lexo short and thinness. But when it is so tired

3981
04:09:15,040 --> 04:09:15,840
in frocks.

3982
04:09:15,600 --> 04:09:19,600
Speaker 3: And then I went more rad Trader commede it out

3983
04:09:19,680 --> 04:09:20,079
of play.

3984
04:09:20,760 --> 04:09:40,920
Speaker 1: When it's drying it Dreno is always playful and loves

3985
04:09:40,959 --> 04:09:44,559
to dance and spin a happy game of trail complaint

3986
04:09:44,600 --> 04:09:49,159
out it's begin more prad. Tatles commede it out of clay.

3987
04:09:49,559 --> 04:09:50,920
Speaker 4: And when it's drying.

3988
04:09:53,520 --> 04:09:56,639
Speaker 3: Traddles, I made it out of claves.

3989
04:09:56,840 --> 04:09:59,479
Speaker 1: And when it's trying ready there.

3990
04:10:09,799 --> 04:10:11,799
Speaker 4: Audio friends, God bless you all.

3991
04:10:15,200 --> 04:10:15,399
Speaker 2: Hmm