Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best
Speaker 1: in paranormal talk radio in the UK and around the world.
Speaker 1: Hey everyone, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you
Speaker 1: happen to be in this particular timeline, Welcome to trans
Speaker 1: Dimensional Realities, where we delve into the stranger aspects of
Speaker 1: high strangeness in our current reality. I'm your host, Melissa Lee,
Speaker 1: and I'm really looking forward to this show tonight. We've
Speaker 1: got a great guest who also happens to be the
Speaker 1: station manager here at Paranormal UK Radio Network. Tonight we're
Speaker 1: talking with Andy Mercer, and Andy who's been with us
Speaker 1: for a very long time. He's been a guest on
Speaker 1: several of our programs and he specializes in the occult,
Speaker 1: and so we're going to be really delving deep into
Speaker 1: some strange aspects of things that a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't know about but yet I feel are very important.
Speaker 1: So please welcome Andy Mercer to the program. Hi.
Speaker 2: Andy, Yeah, it's great to be here. It's your new show,
Speaker 2: of course, to put out a few times on the site,
Speaker 2: and I must have meted to listen to more of it.
Speaker 2: It's been what I've heard soars were really good fun
Speaker 2: so it's good to hear it coming.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been really good. If you listen to the
Speaker 1: last show I did with Tim Malone, I mean that
Speaker 1: one was a really interesting conversation about past lives and
Speaker 1: he had a very interesting take on it wasn't like
Speaker 1: the usual that I've done. So yeah, I have anybody
Speaker 1: who hasn't listened to that one yet go and pull
Speaker 1: it up and listen to it both on the Paranormal
Speaker 1: UK Radio Network website or on a podcast where every
Speaker 1: whatever major podcasts are out there.
Speaker 2: We are there, so our YouTube channel and on YouTube
Speaker 2: channel soon as I like to give it a bit
Speaker 2: of space and time, but on the other platforms first,
Speaker 2: so we get it's good area before it goes up
Speaker 2: on the YouTube.
Speaker 1: All got there, definitely, okay, So anyway you have you know,
Speaker 1: we've we've been working together for god how many years now,
Speaker 1: it's been quite a long time.
Speaker 2: While funny enough, Steve Orden I and Susie West recorded
Speaker 2: the seventh anniversary show of our High Strangers Factor at
Speaker 2: the weekend, so that'll be coming up on fairly soon
Speaker 2: as Well've it all together and that's for seven years
Speaker 2: of that so at least longer than that. Obviously we've
Speaker 2: known each other, so it's absolutely flawing by I was funny.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about the weekend we've talked, miss feel
Speaker 2: about that, just remembering it was. It must have been
Speaker 2: like twenty sixteen, fifteen fourteen, somewhere around there. I think
Speaker 2: it must have started when I was I had trained
Speaker 2: his school teacher, if you remember, I talked for a
Speaker 2: little while and left because just a diet circumstance is
Speaker 2: not very good school I was at long story, I
Speaker 2: won't get all of it, but I think we started
Speaker 2: chatting just after that, and that was which is when
Speaker 2: I was all fourteen, I think tween fourteen fifteen, So yeah.
Speaker 1: Of course I had the pleasure of coming out there
Speaker 1: and meeting you and your wife a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2: So yeah, A wonderful time in Bath and a lovely
Speaker 2: city which I was in again fairly recently and wanted
Speaker 2: to have a nice walk around the Cathedraeorge is fantastic
Speaker 2: and I found unfortunately it was closed for the day
Speaker 2: because all the university graduating ceremonies very annoying. It is
Speaker 2: a lovely cath.
Speaker 1: I hate it when that happens. So anyway, you, as
Speaker 1: I introduced you, you, I have been researching and involved
Speaker 1: with the occult for many years, and I was wondering
Speaker 1: if you could explain to those people in the audience
Speaker 1: who may not totally understand what that means, or maybe
Speaker 1: they have some preconceptions of what the occult stands for.
Speaker 2: Well, people certainly do have all sorts of preconceived notions
Speaker 2: of what it actually means. The term itself just means hidden,
Speaker 2: secret information, and the idea is to bring that information
Speaker 2: into the light. My particular era of interest is what's
Speaker 2: known as ceremonial magic, which is often called higher magic,
Speaker 2: which involves things like the magic of Solomon and ancient
Speaker 2: Jewish texts and that sort of thing. It's working with
Speaker 2: angels and spirits, but on the other side, of course,
Speaker 2: is working with demons as well, from sort of verse,
Speaker 2: denizens of Hell and the like. So that's my era
Speaker 2: of interest, particularly with old grimoire magic, which goes back
Speaker 2: to sort of fifteen sixteen hundreds actually finding and my
Speaker 2: case of my own research is often transcribing handwritten documents
Speaker 2: into typed form, which then I'm actually publishing as a publisher.
Speaker 2: But My interest really is in that understanding of knowledge.
Speaker 2: The nois of you, like is the term itself and
Speaker 2: used if you think of religion as being faith and
Speaker 2: belief about God and what have you, and that short
Speaker 2: precludes the idea of knowledge of these things. That the
Speaker 2: idea of knowing about these things is you shouldn't be
Speaker 2: doing that. You should have faith and belief and recognize
Speaker 2: the mystery of whatever. This is more about understand what
Speaker 2: these things are, what power is supposed to exist, what
Speaker 2: what you can do with it? And I'm very kind
Speaker 2: of vague. It's acts a broad topic to kind of
Speaker 2: give a fairly concise answer to it. It's generally the
Speaker 2: idea of what is there that's beyond the physical realm,
Speaker 2: what energies exist, what forces exist? Are there literal angels
Speaker 2: and literal demons they really exist? Are they mental constructs
Speaker 2: or something between the two. That's been my kind of
Speaker 2: era of interest. I've worked with, say what's called ceremonial
Speaker 2: magic and poetic magic, which is key of Solomon et cetera.
Speaker 2: But one of my big eras of interest is a
Speaker 2: called doctor John d who was elizabethan astrologer and scientists mathematician,
Speaker 2: was a friend of the first and he wanted to,
Speaker 2: like a lot of occultists, understand more about how the
Speaker 2: universe worked, how the worlds worked. But he came to
Speaker 2: the idea and conclusion that in order to find out
Speaker 2: more information, you had to talk to God or God's
Speaker 2: angels directly, and he devised what he didn't devise a
Speaker 2: sort of discovered a system of communication using a crystal ball,
Speaker 2: which is what we call scrying, and he would use
Speaker 2: a seer whould look into the crystal ball and described
Speaker 2: to what he was seeing Edward Kelly. Kelly wouldn't describe
Speaker 2: what he was seeing, and de would make note of it,
Speaker 2: and this is called it a knocky in magic, which
Speaker 2: is something I found very interesting when I first got
Speaker 2: interested in the occult way back in the midst of time.
Speaker 2: So I explored that area specifically, and my interest grew
Speaker 2: from that point of being interested in one particular form
Speaker 2: of magic occult work into a more broader image idea
Speaker 2: of all the other forms of a cult and more
Speaker 2: things like witchcraft and particularly British traditional witchcraft, which is
Speaker 2: again it's about sort of magical manipulation of the environment
Speaker 2: around you, which is kind of what the cult is.
Speaker 2: More generally, it's that kind of manipulation of energy, is
Speaker 2: understanding how it's all working. Now, what you decide for
Speaker 2: yourself about what's really going and whether agels and dehumans
Speaker 2: exist or real beings or not, it's kind of up
Speaker 2: to you. I mean, there's good arguments in both directions.
Speaker 2: You know, which is more real? Is it a psychological
Speaker 2: thing or is it an energy thing? Or are there
Speaker 2: real beings from other planes? You kind of end up
Speaker 2: sort of figuring it out for yourself. Almost There are
Speaker 2: people who will tell you it's definitely, oh yes, there's
Speaker 2: a real literal heaven and literal hell, these beings come
Speaker 2: from there. Others would say, none of this is sort
Speaker 2: of collective unconscious archetype material that you talk about in psychology.
Speaker 2: That's really what's going on here. And no one's right,
Speaker 2: no one's wrong because you can't prove either way. All
Speaker 2: you can say is for your own experience is whether
Speaker 2: anything actually works. If you try using ritual magic to
Speaker 2: try and contact being some other realities, do you find
Speaker 2: you actually contacting those things? Do you feel you're experiencing something?
Speaker 2: And I think those who've been serious practitioners for years
Speaker 2: or two. Yes, there is something, you know what it is.
Speaker 2: You have to say that there is something to it,
Speaker 2: so it's and then actually it's really trying to understand
Speaker 2: the mechanics. If you're like of reality, beyond the sort
Speaker 2: of physical stuff film and science, there's more going on, which,
Speaker 2: as I say, for me, the conclusion is there is
Speaker 2: something going on. Well exactly is I don't know, you
Speaker 2: know how exactly it works. I wouldn't like to say diffinitively.
Speaker 2: I have my own ideas. I think it's something those
Speaker 2: two ideas of these being seen to exist, but they're
Speaker 2: not necessarily independent of us. There's some kind of connection
Speaker 2: to us as humans, that they exist almost within us
Speaker 2: as well as beyond us. It's a find of a
Speaker 2: middle grad between the two. That's my personal thinking. But
Speaker 2: as I say, others will tell you completely differently that
Speaker 2: these things are real beings to someone, something from a
Speaker 2: literal hell and the servant of Satan, if you like.
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't be so sure myself if that's the case.
Speaker 2: But as I know people who would tell you that
Speaker 2: is the case. And I don't say, all you're completely wrong,
Speaker 2: because I don't know, you know, each would say the
Speaker 2: other we don't really know. We have our beliefs, their ideas,
Speaker 2: no evidence, but what we actually believe is up to us.
Speaker 2: But fundamentally, this stuff is about understanding how reality appears
Speaker 2: to work, trying to understand or at least get a
Speaker 2: glimpse of the wiring under the ball, the sort of
Speaker 2: the fabular reality, how it's all actually working.
Speaker 1: So that was, well, that's right up my alley, because
Speaker 1: I'm like you, I want to know how things work.
Speaker 1: I don't go just on belief or faith, because you
Speaker 1: know what, I've been wrong enough in my lifetime, and
Speaker 1: the more I seem to learn the different directions it
Speaker 1: pulls me. You know, That's why I name the show
Speaker 1: what it is trans dimensional Realities. It's looking beyond what
Speaker 1: we think of is reality and all the other forces
Speaker 1: that we deal with on a daily basis that most
Speaker 1: people can't see, they ignore, or they just don't want
Speaker 1: to believe in. And there there are so many different
Speaker 1: energies and forces that are surrounding us. And I always
Speaker 1: liken it to like the light spectrum. You know, you
Speaker 1: look at the whole electromagnetic spectrum. We see this one
Speaker 1: little sliver and we have everything going this way into
Speaker 1: infrared and to ultraviolet, and it's all there, but we
Speaker 1: can only see this part. And that's how I look at.
Speaker 2: Reality absolutely, and that is essentially it is. There are
Speaker 2: clearly other levels of existence, are the parts of the
Speaker 2: spectrum as you put it, that we can see almost
Speaker 2: by reflection that I mean, I find a lot of
Speaker 2: crossover between the cult stuff and the paranorm which was
Speaker 2: not the big fit of interesting ghosts, et cetera. I mean,
Speaker 2: I've come to the conclusion, which maybe a little bit controversial,
Speaker 2: of the ghosts, aliens, spirits, demons, they're all the same thing.
Speaker 2: There are different forms of manifestation, are the same fundamental
Speaker 2: whatever it is, they just take on different forms. One
Speaker 2: of the things I found quite fastic with the cold
Speaker 2: Bat stuff is that you can work for saver example,
Speaker 2: traditional witchcraft, which I've used. You can work with a
Speaker 2: knocking system which I've used. You work with rooms which
Speaker 2: I've used. All three systems are very different to each other,
Speaker 2: and yet all three work. Now there has to be
Speaker 2: some kind of continuity between the three of them for
Speaker 2: all three very very different systems to actually produce results.
Speaker 2: And I say, my thinking is that you're dealing with
Speaker 2: an underlying any level, which then you can aldo and
Speaker 2: manipulate according to those patterns that you're using. Eyes if
Speaker 2: using Rune magic example, or Icelandic stage magic, which is
Speaker 2: are much more powerful magical system that comes from Iceland,
Speaker 2: but it's related to roots, but it's slightly different. But
Speaker 2: I've used that stuff and find it can be effective.
Speaker 2: I've used to say a noki and sprite. Trying to
Speaker 2: travel to literally other realms is how you feel you're
Speaker 2: going to You're experiencing beings creatures that ivery want to
Speaker 2: call them in those other realms when you're working with them.
Speaker 2: And again with more traditional ceremonial magic, you're doing with
Speaker 2: more traditionally named spirits that you find listed for centuries,
Speaker 2: a list of demons and a go isha, for example,
Speaker 2: the beings that Solomon is supposed to controlled the Testament
Speaker 2: Solomon for the thursdayentury. You can work with those traditionally
Speaker 2: named creatures being what if you want to call them
Speaker 2: and they also respond. So the fact you have different
Speaker 2: systems that are very different to each other, yet all
Speaker 2: three seem to work suggest there's something underneath all that
Speaker 2: that is that use what you're actually interacting with and
Speaker 2: again some people wouldn't beprieve what I'm saying. It would
Speaker 2: say that, you know, they believe witchcraft is the form
Speaker 2: and that's the power of something else Stu as nonsense.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's how they want to work. But as I say,
Speaker 2: if you work dedicatedly and authentically you have any of
Speaker 2: those systems, you get results. When I say a results,
Speaker 2: I mean you whatever you're trying to create effect occurs.
Speaker 2: One of the things to find is that people sometimes
Speaker 2: talk about good versus evil, black and white magic, et cetera,
Speaker 2: et cetera. It's a bit of a nonsense because really
Speaker 2: it is what you do with it, whatever you're trying
Speaker 2: to achieve with magical systems. You know, you can certainly
Speaker 2: use stuff to have detrimental effect on other people if
Speaker 2: you want to, and you can use the same stuff
Speaker 2: to have positive effect. It depends how you apply it. It's
Speaker 2: like anything any kind of weapon, if you like, you know,
Speaker 2: depends so you want to make use of it. It
Speaker 2: becomes a negative or a positive thing. You know, it
Speaker 2: is very much how you apply it. So you get
Speaker 2: a lot of people say, oh, you don't work with
Speaker 2: goetic demons or evil monsters, you know, well, it depends
Speaker 2: if you approach them with that kind of attitude, that's
Speaker 2: what you'll experience. If you work more positive in adhere
Speaker 2: to whatever is required to some of these things that
Speaker 2: don't be quite friendly, it will be communicative. So it
Speaker 2: is often more about how you as a person approach
Speaker 2: these different forms of magic and you account will give
Speaker 2: you a different kind of response depending on what, say,
Speaker 2: how you're doing, and who you are as a person
Speaker 2: as well. That great difference. One of the things that
Speaker 2: struck me early on working with the knock in is
Speaker 2: saying scrying or you can bring things to you to
Speaker 2: communicate with, or you go to their realms if you like.
Speaker 2: How what I was experiencing when I would work to it
Speaker 2: was quite different to say, for example, so when Alista
Speaker 2: Crowd may have heard of as well, the tourists magician
Speaker 2: from the early nineteen hundreds, when he worked with a
Speaker 2: knock in, he had very different visions experiences to what
Speaker 2: I was experiencing. So I was a little bit thought,
Speaker 2: that's interesting, it's different. But back in the say the nineties,
Speaker 2: nearly days the Internet, I found a guy who was
Speaker 2: in Denmark who had been working the same system and
Speaker 2: was reporting back on his website his experiences, and I
Speaker 2: was struck remarkably similar. They were to my own much
Speaker 2: closer because just Any's built and so is he with
Speaker 2: knew of us or asked so Crowley, so we weren't
Speaker 2: having the Crowleian type of experiences. So it seemed to
Speaker 2: me very much that it does depend on who you
Speaker 2: are and how you approach ritual magic for it in
Speaker 2: terms of how it then works or doesn't work for you.
Speaker 2: I think if people go with the wrong attitude, they
Speaker 2: don't get anywhere with it and dismiss it as been nonsense.
Speaker 2: And often that's what people do. They don't take the
Speaker 2: time or make the effort to really understand on experience
Speaker 2: and practice what they're doing. So it is it's an
Speaker 2: interesting thing to find stuff that does actually work well.
Speaker 1: My personal opinion and my experiences are that it doesn't
Speaker 1: really matter what you're working with. We are the conduits,
Speaker 1: we we are energy, we are spirit inhabiting these meat
Speaker 1: suits that can interact with these other realms, these other dimensions,
Speaker 1: and it's all about intent. It doesn't matter what rituals
Speaker 1: you use, what practices is if you're putting out the intent.
Speaker 1: Perfect example, I studied under shamanism about ten years ago
Speaker 1: and learning to be a shamanic practitioner and doing healing
Speaker 1: and the connections that you make there is they call
Speaker 1: it journeying, and in a meditative state through drumming, you
Speaker 1: enter into these other worlds, whether it's the upper, middle
Speaker 1: or lower world, and interact with your animal totems, spirit guides,
Speaker 1: any other types of realms. And it's very similar to
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. So I really think a lot
Speaker 1: of it is defined by our own perceptions, cultural perceptions,
Speaker 1: and you can use multiple different types of techniques and
Speaker 1: as long as you have that intent and putting that
Speaker 1: energy out there, it will work for you. When you
Speaker 1: were talking about the scrying, it reminds me very much
Speaker 1: of what an astro damist did with scrying in the
Speaker 1: ball of water and getting his visions.
Speaker 2: That's exactly. It was a particular form of not just
Speaker 2: divination as in seeing the future like not of damas,
Speaker 2: but that spirit communication by means of crystal or water
Speaker 2: or any surface that was reflected. But you're right, it
Speaker 2: is that the shamans and the idea of the drum
Speaker 2: in that you could chanting teach you into a different
Speaker 2: mental or state. And with the knaki in for example,
Speaker 2: you say in the Knockian chant, it's a knocking called
Speaker 2: in the Knochi language to initiate this communication, and so
Speaker 2: you do the same thing. It put you into a
Speaker 2: particular trance state. The things which you know also from
Speaker 2: the shamanistic work, and I know from a knocking and others.
Speaker 2: It's not like imagination. There is a clarity and strength
Speaker 2: of imagery and vision that is much much stronger than
Speaker 2: something you're imagining. It's not even like you're just dreaming.
Speaker 2: It is literally you're awake, but you're aware that you
Speaker 2: are experiencing some of these extraordinary non ordinary That's the thing.
Speaker 2: I recently gave a talk at the Glastinarycult conference here
Speaker 2: in Investory in the UK, talking about working with a
Speaker 2: book called The Secret Grimoiterurial, which is agreem Wir that
Speaker 2: was the originally thought to have been a modern fake,
Speaker 2: but later it has been discovered probably in the eighteen hundred,
Speaker 2: so it's not that old, but it's older than they
Speaker 2: thought and certainly based on earlier material. And the second
Speaker 2: half of my talk I talked about that particular Boud
Speaker 2: the history, but the second half I talked about my
Speaker 2: personal experiences very early on when I first started working
Speaker 2: with ritual magic, and describing how you have to set
Speaker 2: up a number of items. You have the things you
Speaker 2: have to burn incense, and you have to create schedules
Speaker 2: which are these sort of symbols as you put onto parchment,
Speaker 2: and then you try to communicate, you reader and invocation
Speaker 2: and look for communication. And I noticed in those early days,
Speaker 2: you're not doing because there was nobody else around. I
Speaker 2: knew about this. This is pre internet days. Of course, I
Speaker 2: was aware of our presences around me when I did this.
Speaker 2: I wasn't wasn't seeing beings before or anything like that,
Speaker 2: but a very definite sense of energy form around me,
Speaker 2: creatures beings around me, like you know you So you
Speaker 2: walk into a room with ice closed, you can just
Speaker 2: tell that someone in the room and someone there that
Speaker 2: kind of feeling you just knew that someone with you.
Speaker 2: Never communicatord, never said very much all answer, but just
Speaker 2: a sense of you've called me here. I am here.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do anything, I'm not gonna say anything,
Speaker 2: but I am here. The only thing I would notice
Speaker 2: was from enough I can't mention in the conference that
Speaker 2: you'd be in that state for a while, mental state,
Speaker 2: and then you'd say the lightning to depart, which clears
Speaker 2: these things out and you have a sense it was gone.
Speaker 2: But I used to notice what can really call political
Speaker 2: activity in my room afterwards. For two or three days,
Speaker 2: I'd little bangs and knots on the walls, often the
Speaker 2: outside walls, water outside war was. It was like the
Speaker 2: neighbors or parents at the time, and objects move around
Speaker 2: my room, little just little things just would be gone
Speaker 2: and come back in a couple of days later they
Speaker 2: discipline and reappear in my room in different spots or
Speaker 2: things has been moved. When I left in the morning,
Speaker 2: it was one place to come back after work and
Speaker 2: it was somewhere else. So that was my real first
Speaker 2: experiences and realized, yes, this stuff was doing something, is
Speaker 2: something really is going on now. You know, people were easy,
Speaker 2: so it's just your imagination. You just you imagine these
Speaker 2: beings there. But no, there was a definite sense there
Speaker 2: was really something to it, and that fascinated me for years.
Speaker 2: I mean, I had my earlier ghost experience was I've
Speaker 2: talked about before and on your shop I'm sure I
Speaker 2: having seen something when I was ten eleven years old,
Speaker 2: but this second experience in my early twenties working with
Speaker 2: this stuff was just as powerful, even I never saw anything,
Speaker 2: and that's what took me into this, this interest in
Speaker 2: this hidden world if you like, and exploring it further.
Speaker 2: But certainly you're right whatever. If you have a known
Speaker 2: belief in what you're doing, these whatever they are, will
Speaker 2: respond to. That doesn't matter. You can have all the
Speaker 2: parapherny because some of the ritual stuff you do with
Speaker 2: cermony magic involves an awful lot of stuff. You know, clothing, investments,
Speaker 2: particular persons. You have to have all sorts of items, swords, daggers,
Speaker 2: and cut spend yours, all sorts of things you need to
Speaker 2: have for these rituals. You can have all that stuff,
Speaker 2: have custom made for your great expense. But if you
Speaker 2: don't have the belief in what you're doing, if you're
Speaker 2: just doing it because you think you have to dress
Speaker 2: this way and you just follow it blindly, you get
Speaker 2: any because nothing happens because you don't have that belief.
Speaker 2: You have to have that faith. If you've got and
Speaker 2: made stuff yourself, what a wooden sword from a kid's
Speaker 2: toy shop and just painted out with symbols on it,
Speaker 2: rather than these big dramatic metal metal sort about the
Speaker 2: bithrom somewhere that can be just as powerful because you
Speaker 2: have faith in what you're doing and it is about that.
Speaker 2: So I think all these different systems of magic and
Speaker 2: your cold are different ways of working that work with
Speaker 2: you as a person. Culture obviously plays a part as well,
Speaker 2: but you can obviously cultures have different systems of magic.
Speaker 2: But like an example, we've got so many differs from
Speaker 2: witchcraft up to high so many magic. But if you
Speaker 2: have a faith and feel a connection with that stuff,
Speaker 2: then it tends to work, you know. But it takes
Speaker 2: time and takes effort. Often people aren't be bared to
Speaker 2: the work in And one of the things I've often
Speaker 2: say about this stuff is it happens too frequently to
Speaker 2: be coincidence and not enough to be approvable. It's that
Speaker 2: kind of strange middle ground between the two, you know.
Speaker 2: It's just there are things that happen. Now this this
Speaker 2: is not coincidence. This is something's going on. But I
Speaker 2: can't just make it happen out of the blue. It
Speaker 2: has to be the right circumstance, right, the situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like. That's why science is so quick
Speaker 1: to dismiss dismiss it because they can't bring it into
Speaker 1: a laboratory and run it under a microscope or and say, see,
Speaker 1: we can prove this exists because it doesn't act that way.
Speaker 1: It's these are energies and there are things working on
Speaker 1: a different frequency and vibration, so the things that science
Speaker 1: doesn't understand yet. But ironically, a lot of the Aboriginal
Speaker 1: native cultures going back hundreds of thousands of years, they
Speaker 1: knew it. They worked with it all the time, everything
Speaker 1: from you know in the UK with the Celts and
Speaker 1: who else was there you know better than me? Uh
Speaker 1: here here Native Americans, Aborigines in Australia who are like
Speaker 1: some of the oldest people on earth and they've been
Speaker 1: working with these energies for millennia.
Speaker 2: Absolutely like to get back to what you said before
Speaker 2: about approval and abroad you because the good at the
Speaker 2: best argument against that is pretty love. We all to
Speaker 2: love exists, we will experience at some point in our lives.
Speaker 2: But you can't prove the laboratory. There's no scientific experiment
Speaker 2: you can character prove the distance of love. You can't
Speaker 2: prove scientific mechanisms behind falling in love. It's about brain
Speaker 2: chemistry changing, of course, But you can't have a room
Speaker 2: of fifty people that twenty five mentors, for example, and
Speaker 2: see the criteria you can find for them to fall enough.
Speaker 2: You know, like, what do you set? What criteria do
Speaker 2: you set for them to falling out? It just doesn't
Speaker 2: work like that. You know, there are things like this
Speaker 2: that you can't shouldn't be prove or disapproven laboratory. You
Speaker 2: have to be out there experience in these things. It's
Speaker 2: same with the parallemle in it more generally. You know,
Speaker 2: I both know we've had experiences more enough experiences over
Speaker 2: the years that we cannot explain scientifically irrationally to know
Speaker 2: this something to it. So as you start saying, oh,
Speaker 2: it's definitely X y Z reasons these things happen, and
Speaker 2: I think you're narrowing the plane field completely because we
Speaker 2: just don't know. Again, forty years a studying experiences and stuff.
Speaker 2: I know stuff happens because I've seen it, experienced it.
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't like to say, wouldn't like to give
Speaker 2: you a theory, So why I've never I'm told generally
Speaker 2: about these things having no identity and copying what we
Speaker 2: do or what we give them. Again, he's only a theory,
Speaker 2: he's saying, an idea. I don't know, but it is
Speaker 2: true that you can't. We can't we choose things down
Speaker 2: to not somewhats with tourism, which is what modern science
Speaker 2: tends to do exactly.
Speaker 1: It reminds me, I don't know. Do you remember the
Speaker 1: movie Contact with Jodie Foster Matthew mc conney back in
Speaker 1: the nineties. There was that brilliant scene where she's telling
Speaker 1: him why she doesn't believe in God because she need
Speaker 1: empirical proof, and he says to her, well, did you
Speaker 1: love your father? She goes, well, yes, he goes prove it,
Speaker 1: and it goes right to what you were saying is
Speaker 1: there are things you can't prove in that manner, things
Speaker 1: that we can experience, and a lot of what we
Speaker 1: can experience, a lot of it happens within, and that's
Speaker 1: something you can't measure. I've had experiences where I've had downloads,
Speaker 1: I've had information come to me. I don't ever call
Speaker 1: myself a psychic, although other people say I am, but
Speaker 1: I'm not there yet, but I have information come to me.
Speaker 1: I do tarot readings for people, and I'm able to
Speaker 1: the last couple of times i've been out, it's like
Speaker 1: I've really been nailing it. And I don't take credit
Speaker 1: for that. I think it's whatever's now I'm downloading and
Speaker 1: whatever's coming through to me. It was funny. I was
Speaker 1: reading for a front couple friend of mine, and I
Speaker 1: was reading the husband and the wife was sitting aside,
Speaker 1: and she had a little bit to drink. So I'm
Speaker 1: reading and I'm saying stuff and she's going, oh, oh, yeah, oh,
Speaker 1: And I finally told her shut up sit over there,
Speaker 1: and then I had to close my eyes so I
Speaker 1: wouldn't look at her because I didn't want to get
Speaker 1: those visual cues from her. And I finished the reading
Speaker 1: and they told me I nailed it. So again, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's with a lot of psychics. Are so called psychics.
Speaker 1: You deal with people, in my opinion, who maybe have
Speaker 1: some things that they're able to tune into, but in
Speaker 1: a lot of cases, unfortunately, many of them are nowhere
Speaker 1: near as good as they think they are. I don't
Speaker 1: call anybody an outright charlatan, but I have experienced psychics
Speaker 1: who just they'll hold the open forums and start throwing
Speaker 1: things out there, doing cold readings, and it's just ridiculous.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I see somebody who has a problem with
Speaker 1: their left knee. Well that's half the audience, especially if
Speaker 1: they're our age.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's you have to go within. Everything comes
Speaker 1: from within. You were mentioning traveling to or interacting with
Speaker 1: these different realms. Some could call that like assphle traveling.
Speaker 1: You know, you're traveling outside of your body but also
Speaker 1: outside of our reality into these different realms. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of different ways to connect.
Speaker 2: So I one of another interesting a bit beyond this
Speaker 2: kind of it's comc is in quantum physics, quantum mechanics
Speaker 2: and quite just if possible to tell fast and seed
Speaker 2: the light, which seemed impossible. But one of the theories
Speaker 2: that is out there about how the universe fundermental works
Speaker 2: is cosmic strings. And these are amost realities in themselves,
Speaker 2: the individual kind of realities. Now, if they're non spatially located,
Speaker 2: then it's possible that some of the things you're experiencing
Speaker 2: are within those microcosmic realms. Then you're literally going inside
Speaker 2: these micro micro realms and there is an entire reality
Speaker 2: in there that's not working at our dimensions. It's even
Speaker 2: it's incredibly small, it's still operates as if it's three
Speaker 2: dimensions within it, as possibilities that there is. If the
Speaker 2: universe is what the term now where it's not static fixed,
Speaker 2: I don't mean in terms of explaining, but it's the
Speaker 2: universe exists as a result of something deeper within it,
Speaker 2: And it's a term that it's annoying. It's just gone
Speaker 2: from my head. Emergent. I think it's called whether the
Speaker 2: reality itself that we experience now is a byproduct of
Speaker 2: something deeper. If that's the case, which more and more
Speaker 2: cosmologists are starting that there is something to this, then
Speaker 2: it starts to really open up the possibility of these
Speaker 2: realms do exist and there are things beings that are
Speaker 2: non corporeal, non spatial, that can occupy those realms, and
Speaker 2: that maybe what we're communicated. But again it's kind of
Speaker 2: a vague through that trying to sort of put throw together.
Speaker 2: But it's intriguing that whole notion that there could be
Speaker 2: this realm and it does actually exist. It's not something
Speaker 2: that we can literally physically visit. But we can access
Speaker 2: into psychology mentally very possibly not to me. It's fantastic.
Speaker 1: As you mentioned earlier, a lot of what people consider
Speaker 1: to be ghosts or cryptids or other types of beings,
Speaker 1: are these entities that you inhabit, these other realms. They
Speaker 1: can come over or onto our side. And there's a
Speaker 1: great example that's very popular right now is over here
Speaker 1: in the US. There's what they call the Appalachian Mountains,
Speaker 1: which is one of the oldest mountain ranges in the world.
Speaker 1: It stretches from the Kentucky Tennessee area and goes all
Speaker 1: the way up over the globe and actually is into Scotland.
Speaker 1: It was all one big mountain range, and some of
Speaker 1: it sunk over time, but very very old, connected and
Speaker 1: people have so many experiences in these areas that you
Speaker 1: can't say it's haunted. It's high strangeness to the extreme.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's one thing. People have seen Bigfoot, Okay,
Speaker 1: now it's popular, but they also see like this white
Speaker 1: like rake, what the rake? They call it? Kind of
Speaker 1: creature They excuse me, allergies. They hear voices, they things
Speaker 1: knock on their doors at night, voices asking to let in.
Speaker 1: Mimics and it's all concentrated in this one area along
Speaker 1: this mountain range. And there are rules for people living
Speaker 1: in Appalachia. They're unwritten rules, but it's like, you close
Speaker 1: all your blinds at night, lock your doors, You don't
Speaker 1: go out in the woods at night, especially alone. If
Speaker 1: you hear whistling, you ignore it. Do not whistle back.
Speaker 1: If you hear somebody calling your name, no you didn't.
Speaker 1: If you hear some strange creature scream, no you didn't.
Speaker 1: And those are their rules to keep people safe. And
Speaker 1: a lot of it sounds like superstition, but there's so
Speaker 1: much happening in that area. And I feel that we
Speaker 1: have those types of hot spots all over the world
Speaker 1: where these dimensions, that veil is thin and creatures, entities, whatever,
Speaker 1: bleed over into our dimension.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I can think of a few places over here
Speaker 2: in case, one of which I'm going back to for
Speaker 2: the first time in twenty years at the end of March.
Speaker 2: The place Okay, okay, that was a regular there back
Speaker 2: nearly two thousands. Working with Fright Nights have investigation nights there.
Speaker 2: I hadn't been is, but there's a group I'm not
Speaker 2: involved in that's going there and the end of the month,
Speaker 2: which we're looking forward to, because that is a very
Speaker 2: strange place where you do have all sorts of phenomen
Speaker 2: I mean I've literally lost count number of investigations I've
Speaker 2: been on there. I mean it was like every it
Speaker 2: was every weekend night for about a year. What's working
Speaker 2: fright night? So it was one hundred plus and we
Speaker 2: always had something happen, definitely something, So, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: the value of the place is Builting is called Nymphsfield
Speaker 2: to field of nymphs, you know, the very nymphs. So
Speaker 2: there's a history of strangeness in this particular value where
Speaker 2: the woods just mantain sits. So that's definitely that kind
Speaker 2: of place. But I've just read a lot about the
Speaker 2: Appolatian Mouths. I'd love to visit one of these days.
Speaker 2: I can imagine it amazing. But it does seem to
Speaker 2: be there are these places where there's a geological fault
Speaker 2: line or a geological effect that seemed to be part
Speaker 2: of this strange manifestation of energies that seem to occur
Speaker 2: in these particular spots and places in the world. That
Speaker 2: is quite fascinating.
Speaker 1: I would be interested in doing an investigation out there,
Speaker 1: because you know, if there are are certain energies, maybe
Speaker 1: it's electromagnetic, maybe it can be measured. Again, this doesn't
Speaker 1: happen all the time. It's not like you can set
Speaker 1: your clock by it. A lot of people have experiences
Speaker 1: and maybe there are hotspots. It's a matter of talking
Speaker 1: to the right people and going out. There's lots of
Speaker 1: videos on the Internet, but of course a lot of
Speaker 1: them are also fate too. But there's some really interesting
Speaker 1: ones that I know are not CGI or AI that
Speaker 1: have people interacting with things that are I'm sorry, scary
Speaker 1: as hell, and I don't get scared easily, so I
Speaker 1: would really like to go and investigate along that area sometime.
Speaker 1: I mean, we do have a part of the Appalachian Mountains,
Speaker 1: the Appalachian Trail coming right here where I live in
Speaker 1: New Jersey, but most of it seems to happen down
Speaker 1: in Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia and around those areas.
Speaker 2: Of course, it's said you know so now lives of
Speaker 2: course right in the Moth and Prophecies area.
Speaker 1: And that could be part of it too, point plus
Speaker 1: in West Virginia. But it's also been seen all over
Speaker 1: the area, which is a course part of Appalachia.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, so there's a It is interesting you can map
Speaker 2: this phenomena when you can link it to particular fault
Speaker 2: lines and energy fault lines as well. Of first, we
Speaker 2: have a lot of a lines in the UK, which
Speaker 2: is a matter of debate whether they're januine some kind
Speaker 2: of energy field or it's more just old tracking people.
Speaker 2: But the strongest one here which again had a lot
Speaker 2: of strange things occurd on Michael Lion, which I discovered
Speaker 2: to fabe recently runs through my village, so I was
Speaker 2: quite oh, that's interesting, you know that sort of massively
Speaker 2: tours another part of that my photoglastic before. It's pretty famous.
Speaker 2: So we have those sort of energy lines as well.
Speaker 2: So it's already in a similar kind of manager to
Speaker 2: say this goes directly dragging across the country. And there's
Speaker 2: another that comes north to south across the country as
Speaker 2: in the main two lay lines of energy that people
Speaker 2: do with phenomena along those particular lines, and it is
Speaker 2: fascinating to think that there is definitely a kind of
Speaker 2: a flow of energy that kind of moves almost around
Speaker 2: the world. I think, as you said, the less reach
Speaker 2: across the Scotland Mountain lions there. So it is interesting
Speaker 2: this kind of network can you get these places of
Speaker 2: high strangers as wellout to call them. And I've been
Speaker 2: watching or rewatching. I know it's TV, but the secret
Speaker 2: skin walk arage of and absolutely fascinating is you're talking
Speaker 2: about hard science scientists investigating strange phenomena that seems to
Speaker 2: be building a picture of something very odd in that
Speaker 2: particular area that is genuinely occurring, and it's been measured
Speaker 2: as an odd phenomena that seems to affect electronics and
Speaker 2: electrical things as well. And I find that so fascinating.
Speaker 1: That's literally my favorite show. And what I like about
Speaker 1: the show is the fact that they refuse to jump
Speaker 1: to any conclusions. They're out trying to measure and get
Speaker 1: facts and they come across all this strange phenomenon and
Speaker 1: they can't explain it, and they try everything, all these
Speaker 1: different experiments. But yet when you get a ball of
Speaker 1: light the UAPs that they call them, ball of light
Speaker 1: flying over the Mesa, dives into the Mesa, disappears, and
Speaker 1: then a few moments later appears out of the Mesa
Speaker 1: from a different angle but along the same flight trajectory.
Speaker 1: It's something is moving through solid matter. And the fact
Speaker 1: that in the later seasons there seems to be some
Speaker 1: kind of energy force field dome above the one section
Speaker 1: of the ranch that they're able to measure, but yet
Speaker 1: they have no idea what it is.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean things like the helicopters being acting as
Speaker 2: if there's object underneath them. Yes, once or twice it
Speaker 2: could be the problem with helicopter, but it's repeatedly, and
Speaker 2: it's picking up readings of things up shouldn't be there,
Speaker 2: that are not there. But yeah, it's really so there's
Speaker 2: something present and obvious. You've seen the one with the
Speaker 2: multiple drone flights. These drones that behave perfectly normally in
Speaker 2: everyone's circumstance. There certain levels arise at the start moving
Speaker 2: apart and acting, the strange laser beams being cut in
Speaker 2: the air, blocked off. It doesn't happen or diffracted by something.
Speaker 2: It just doesn't happen in normal science, normal normal physics.
Speaker 2: These things are clearly occurring, and it is a fascinating program,
Speaker 2: and say it is TV take a picture Salt, but
Speaker 2: it seems as they are discovering something very strange going
Speaker 2: on there and of course, the office thing is if
Speaker 2: it's in one place, skin one other parts of the world,
Speaker 2: and the other places are strangely active like this as well,
Speaker 2: they have to be there.
Speaker 1: There was a friend of mine that owned a small
Speaker 1: ranch in the south of Phoenix. Sat in the southwest
Speaker 1: of Phoenix, Arizona Colored Stardust Ranch. Yes, yes, yeah, I
Speaker 1: used to know the owner. Unfortunately he died a few
Speaker 1: years ago and somebody bought the ranch and nobody can
Speaker 1: figure out who it is, which is kindish, which is
Speaker 1: kind of shady to begin with, especially all of the
Speaker 1: intents rather negative activity that happened in that area. And
Speaker 1: again it makes you wonder, is it something in the
Speaker 1: ground or is it something where certain energies lay lines
Speaker 1: or portals, something that are in this area that is
Speaker 1: allowing these entities these sometimes they look like aliens, but
Speaker 1: I'm not quite convinced they're aliens. It's a lot of
Speaker 1: really wild stuff. I know one Ghost Adventures of all
Speaker 1: TV shows went there and did an investigation and they
Speaker 1: had some interesting activity happening while they were there. But
Speaker 1: there's these hotspots all over the planet. I investigated a
Speaker 1: cave system in Colorado many years ago and They let
Speaker 1: us go all the way back in where rarely they'd
Speaker 1: rarely take tours. This big open chamber. It's about two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty feet underground, one thousand feet from the
Speaker 1: portal to get in. You're in the middle of a mountain.
Speaker 1: And I had devices that were picking up strange music.
Speaker 1: We were hearing voices catching EVP. Nobody ever died in there.
Speaker 1: The Native Americans never went in there, especially not back
Speaker 1: that far. And it's a sterile part of the cave.
Speaker 1: There's no life. I got little lights appearing in cracks
Speaker 1: in the rocks. They weren't reflection. It was all limestone.
Speaker 1: Weird growls we heard. We recorded the voice telling us
Speaker 1: to get out, And that makes me look into it
Speaker 1: deeper because nobody died in there, so what is in there?
Speaker 1: And then you start thinking about the folk tales of
Speaker 1: let's say, the Welsh miners and the Tommy Knockers, that
Speaker 1: they encountered people in minds, people in caves, things that
Speaker 1: seemed to exist under the ground. Yes, and so I
Speaker 1: feel we were dealing with was not human.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember another place that I've been
Speaker 2: to again. We went back recently. Nasty that have been
Speaker 2: in the past, which is the health Fire Caves over
Speaker 2: here in Highway. Yes, the man made that we actually
Speaker 2: dug out, but they were used by the Health Fire Club.
Speaker 2: Now health Fire Club is interesting because it has the
Speaker 2: reputation of being in solid darkness and stuff. But they
Speaker 2: were kind of just a lot of very rich people
Speaker 2: get him having a very good time. Yes, yes we
Speaker 2: may have carried out some rituals, but there were like
Speaker 2: a mockery of richual There weren't genuine serious richal work.
Speaker 2: But of course you might be mimicking something more serious
Speaker 2: and you're raising energy levels by this. All this party
Speaker 2: and four five times investigations there and there's always been
Speaker 2: odd noises and stuff things have occurred. But there was
Speaker 2: one particular litigation we had there against us back in
Speaker 2: nearly two thousands where we had a group of twenty
Speaker 2: five people with us and by the end of the
Speaker 2: night we had about five of us five them death
Speaker 2: had been spooked by it. We had. The most striking
Speaker 2: thing was the noises we heard. It was where do
Speaker 2: you reckon describe? It is like having someone moving heavy
Speaker 2: furniture around in the next room, except there's no furniture
Speaker 2: down there. A series of chambers, but there's no furnitures, no,
Speaker 2: there's nothing Phizzy could have made those noises. Yet we
Speaker 2: all heard them. And at one point in one part,
Speaker 2: in a corridor again in the dark, a mist appeared
Speaker 2: about knee level and down just appeared from nowhere and
Speaker 2: within two or three minutes had gone again. But it
Speaker 2: was certainly there. But people felt sick, felt dizzy. I
Speaker 2: had to y carrober woman out and it's quite a track.
Speaker 2: The carries put woman out of the whole bloody came network.
Speaker 2: So it was and it was seasoned people there. They've
Speaker 2: been lots of investigations with us, so they just couldn't
Speaker 2: hand it. They felt sick, they felt rough, they felt tired,
Speaker 2: I mean really tired, emotionally tired, sleep and so were
Speaker 2: obviously being very negatively affected by this network. It was amazing.
Speaker 2: But one of the things that really stood out was
Speaker 2: one of the people in the group had the back detector,
Speaker 2: which there are bats that lived in a cave and
Speaker 2: noise as went past. When we got down to the
Speaker 2: inner sanct and the very deepest, which is a good
Speaker 2: three four hundred feet underground both vertically and into about
Speaker 2: half a mile, it started making a whining noise, and
Speaker 2: it was almost like it was singing cordinate up down.
Speaker 2: It's what on earth is that?
Speaker 1: He said.
Speaker 2: The only thing that can make that kind of noise
Speaker 2: is very heavy machinery vibrating at very very high frequency,
Speaker 2: I mean, very high ultra sonic frequencies. Nothing else can
Speaker 2: jy that. But there's nothing down here that could possibly
Speaker 2: be created that sound. So this device isn't faulty. It's
Speaker 2: perfectly work perfectly by the rest of the evening, checking
Speaker 2: before it came out, batteries are fine. And when we
Speaker 2: left you in a sanctum, we went back to normal
Speaker 2: odd click as that went past. But just in that
Speaker 2: inner sanctum, it was this bizarre noise. It was making it.
Speaker 2: So the only thing he knew would create that noise
Speaker 2: is heavy machinery at very high frequency. That was just
Speaker 2: a complete mystery. So there was clearly something down there,
Speaker 2: energy waves of some kind of literal waves that was
Speaker 2: picking up on what they were, where they came from.
Speaker 2: No one knows.
Speaker 1: Well, I've heard other stories, I mean, with people getting
Speaker 1: sick in these situations. It's similar to other totally unrelated
Speaker 1: type of phenomenon, but it's like whatever energy is there
Speaker 1: or vibrations that it's causing. I know people can be
Speaker 1: affected by high levels of EMF electromagnetic fields. They can
Speaker 1: also be affected by infrasound, and I know in a
Speaker 1: lot of cryptid cases over here, especially dealing with sasquatch bigfoot,
Speaker 1: where people will get this disoriented and sick and whatnot,
Speaker 1: and they researchers of theories that it's able to use infrasound,
Speaker 1: which we can't audibly hear, but it affects the body
Speaker 1: and can cause the sickness, the feelings of being watched,
Speaker 1: the tiredness. So it wouldn't surprise me if something in
Speaker 1: there is using some form of either you know, for
Speaker 1: sound or other types of manipulated energy to try to
Speaker 1: get people to leave because it doesn't want you there.
Speaker 2: Well, interestingly, also on the same investigation and last different
Speaker 2: last year. One thing I'm quite good at is I
Speaker 2: can it's kind of channel things, I suppose the best
Speaker 2: way to put it. I can sense that there's someone
Speaker 2: or something around and if they're speaking, now don't be
Speaker 2: speaking to me, but just the communicate. I usually just
Speaker 2: say back what is being said. And I was in
Speaker 2: one cave and the people thereby were asking christ and
Speaker 2: Luigi board and I was given the answers before they
Speaker 2: put on the board. It was actually, I can hear
Speaker 2: this person saying these things, and then the board would
Speaker 2: give the same answer. Now the several people around the boards,
Speaker 2: it wasn't that one person's pushing around making up make
Speaker 2: just repeat what I was saying. It was literally I
Speaker 2: could hear this man was talking. He wasn't very happy
Speaker 2: about us being there, and something had happened to someone
Speaker 2: down there. I think young women have been taken down
Speaker 2: and had they had had fun with Shelby saying, and
Speaker 2: they'd been obviously let go of afterwards and the pressure
Speaker 2: had been paid. It was not that were just sort
Speaker 2: of abducted and taking now they we weren't very happy
Speaker 2: with it, or some of the members weren't very happy
Speaker 2: what was going on, and this person was relaying some
Speaker 2: of that back.
Speaker 1: Say.
Speaker 2: The weird thing was they were saying things to me
Speaker 2: and I was repeating, and it was appearing on the
Speaker 2: board as I was as I was saying. So there
Speaker 2: was something was definitely present and communicating and was unhappy,
Speaker 2: so that it could account for some of the stranger
Speaker 2: things you were having because it was unpleasant things going on.
Speaker 2: It was creating negative energy around us. Quite possibly, I've been.
Speaker 1: In paranormal investigations where I felt whatever was there was
Speaker 1: trying to get me to leave and was focusing its
Speaker 1: energy on me, and I was having what I can
Speaker 1: only describe as a as an anxiety attack. My heart
Speaker 1: was racing, I almost felt like it was palpitating. I
Speaker 1: just felt totally anxious and I would have to leave
Speaker 1: the first time it happened to me, I was in
Speaker 1: a house. It hit when I was upstairs and I
Speaker 1: had to leave and go outside, and the second I
Speaker 1: stepped outside, I was fine. So then I came back
Speaker 1: in and it hit me again. But by that point
Speaker 1: I knew what was going on and I wouldn't let
Speaker 1: it get to me. So a lot of people, and
Speaker 1: you see these TV shows, they start feeling something and
Speaker 1: they're screaming and they're running out and doing everything you're
Speaker 1: not supposed to do. But I've had that happen a
Speaker 1: few times, where something obviously didn't want me there and
Speaker 1: was using what methods it could energy wise to push
Speaker 1: me out and get me to leave.
Speaker 2: I think, as you said about about em fields here,
Speaker 2: they're generating a field which is then interacting with us uncomfortably.
Speaker 2: No you know, our bodies vibrate our hot particular uses
Speaker 2: of the em field of its own. It's about twenty
Speaker 2: feet wide, big lower frequency when it is quite big,
Speaker 2: and anything interacts with it. This is a theory, but
Speaker 2: anything gets within that field and affects the field, you
Speaker 2: feel it. You have a body body reaction, and the
Speaker 2: way our brains are wired is that any kind of
Speaker 2: adverse body reaction will cause a panic because it's causing
Speaker 2: it's making us want to get away from every It
Speaker 2: triggers the fight or flight. You get a sense of
Speaker 2: something it's not safe or uncomforty, you want to get
Speaker 2: out there. It's a biological evolutionary from the threat of
Speaker 2: wild animals attacking that supporse, you get sense as a
Speaker 2: noise nearby that could be a potential threat. So we
Speaker 2: need the energy to run off or fight it off.
Speaker 2: But there could be things ways of energy that trigger
Speaker 2: off the fight off right response. The anxiety you mentioned
Speaker 2: because it's it's disrupting our own em field that we generate,
Speaker 2: so we have a reaction to that. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: it's partly scientific stuff. You talk about the defect of
Speaker 2: infrastut it's along those similar line. But if it will
Speaker 2: be possible that whatever you're dealing with or interacting with
Speaker 2: is creating a adverse rhythmic like that you probably then
Speaker 2: picked up on fels uncomfortable get away from.
Speaker 1: Well, when you mentioned that the body produces this electromagnetic
Speaker 1: field around itself or this energy field around itself, could
Speaker 1: that be considered a person's aura, you.
Speaker 2: Could look at it in that respect. Yeah, it's possible
Speaker 2: that you would have an effect upon light because it's
Speaker 2: all part of the same spectrum of fuel of energy anyways,
Speaker 2: So yeah, very possibly that's what people then pick up
Speaker 2: on have a vision of tour oras as big color
Speaker 2: as they can see, but others too, That being a feeling,
Speaker 2: an impression of getting from that person is then interpret
Speaker 2: as a color, but it's a way of explaining the
Speaker 2: feeling they're picking up on you.
Speaker 1: Okay, over here in the States, I don't know how
Speaker 1: it is. There. There's a lot of people, mostly women,
Speaker 1: who are really into what they consider Wicca witchcraft, and
Speaker 1: a lot lot of it. I think that the people
Speaker 1: are playing around with something that they don't really fully understand.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know there are some people I've met
Speaker 1: who are witches who have been into it for years
Speaker 1: and they have a better understanding of it. But a
Speaker 1: lot of especially younger people, will read some books or
Speaker 1: watch some programs or whatever, and then they start doing
Speaker 1: these rituals, which it's like somebody who's never used a
Speaker 1: wigi board before using it. Not a good idea if
Speaker 1: you don't know how to control the session and close it,
Speaker 1: which is the one thing that's very important. People when
Speaker 1: they start messing around with these energies, they don't know
Speaker 1: how to shut it down, close it off, and protect themselves.
Speaker 1: And it's like the people who use a wigi board,
Speaker 1: who play with it, they get scared and they just
Speaker 1: walk away. It's like you open your front door and
Speaker 1: left it wide open. There's somebody bad there you don't like,
Speaker 1: but you just walk away and leave the door open.
Speaker 1: They just walk right on through and can cause all
Speaker 1: sorts of trouble.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think it's interesting because one thing I would
Speaker 2: different between wicker and witchcraft. Wick has become a religion.
Speaker 2: M it tends to be. I mean, it's literally referred
Speaker 2: to a religion in this country now because enough people
Speaker 2: say they adhere to it that evented on the last
Speaker 2: centsus as being an actual religion. It's the only religion
Speaker 2: given the world, and it is being followed a little
Speaker 2: dogmatically by some people that this is the only way
Speaker 2: of doing things that can way of magic, if you like,
Speaker 2: is the only way that they can do, which again
Speaker 2: isn't quite true. I mean, Gerald's God created it with
Speaker 2: I mean they said it's part of a conveinent, but
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of real evidence for that company
Speaker 2: actually existing much. I think he's his own early expensive
Speaker 2: I think that the Golden Door smaller group and SyncE
Speaker 2: the side. Out of that the Wicked movement is created.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a gateway Druckeg like into the occult
Speaker 2: people experience in Wicker if you stick stick to strictly
Speaker 2: is in the Wick and code, except it's very safe stuff.
Speaker 2: It's very kind of well, basic level stuff. But if
Speaker 2: you want to go further and deep along that kind
Speaker 2: of lines or currency we tend to call it, then
Speaker 2: you go into modernition witchcraft, which is much broader and
Speaker 2: has a better historical basis in the sense it's traditional
Speaker 2: practices that are recording in books like the one I
Speaker 2: wrote about the each Older Came, which is a collection
Speaker 2: of spells to the Victorian age, there's no organized witchcraft.
Speaker 2: There's no witch covens like that in the Victorian times
Speaker 2: and earlier that that's a myth. That was something that.
Speaker 3: Market professor Market Murray created in her book which she
Speaker 3: wrote nineteen ten. But the witch culture Western Europe, which
Speaker 3: suggested there was a long lineage of witch cults, activity
Speaker 3: in covens and it's nonsense, is there's no relevance at all.
Speaker 3: But individual practitioners and witchcraft have been around for centuries.
Speaker 3: They terms about the wide woman of the village.
Speaker 2: And the stuff they use is more real if you like,
Speaker 2: it's not synthesized. The wicked stuff is not you know,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to avoid the word made up, but you
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. It's been put together by
Speaker 2: the bits of business more than initial herbal magic that's
Speaker 2: been around for centuries, and that if you don't know
Speaker 2: what you're doing with that, you can walk a dangerous
Speaker 2: path because it is stuff that is working with real
Speaker 2: energies that you could not necessarily understand how to control,
Speaker 2: how to work with. I mean, the reagion all is
Speaker 2: an interesting point case in point because it's again that's
Speaker 2: interpretation because of course, before the Exorcist movie, which you
Speaker 2: always seen as not particularly dangerous. In fact, you could
Speaker 2: buy it as a kid's toy. It was. It's the
Speaker 2: view of it was changed by the Exorcis. It may
Speaker 2: appear to be much more dangerous. But it's now in
Speaker 2: the public psyche, the public consciousness. That is a way
Speaker 2: of open doors too, darker energy. So of course it
Speaker 2: becomes possibly of these things. As we're saying earlier, perform
Speaker 2: accordance of your belief system. If you think you work
Speaker 2: with dark system stuff through regional then that's what we're
Speaker 2: going to experience. These things are going to manifest in
Speaker 2: those forms. And if you aren't doing it safely, I
Speaker 2: mean we also have a license to depart. In magic,
Speaker 2: the idea of dispelling the energy that's built around you.
Speaker 2: It is important to do that because it will as
Speaker 2: you say, the cause of property in the front door.
Speaker 2: If it's like you're setting a fire to something and
Speaker 2: then's leaving the fire to burn by itself, and then
Speaker 2: rug ouseburn's because you left the fire burning by itself.
Speaker 2: You need to power it down. If you are a
Speaker 2: scientific term. You want to try and bring the energy
Speaker 2: levels back down to sort of safe and normal, and
Speaker 2: if you don't do that, you're going to experience something
Speaker 2: happening to you. Whether it's psychological because you've left it
Speaker 2: open and you've left your mind open, or it's something
Speaker 2: more powerful. You could argue, but there is an effect.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. The cause is one thing. The effect
Speaker 2: that you're experiencing post working and not post things download
Speaker 2: yourself down properly is real. You do experience stuff that
Speaker 2: you don't particularly want to experience.
Speaker 1: Very true. But we're coming up on the end here. Now.
Speaker 1: Do you have any projects or anything that's coming up
Speaker 1: that you want to promote.
Speaker 2: I would like to just mention that as I do,
Speaker 2: my shows up a run Ninth Circle Press publishing company
Speaker 2: that publishes esoterical occult books. My last title sold out
Speaker 2: in forty eight hours, which is rather pleaser and pretty
Speaker 2: far too if you are going to be doing a
Speaker 2: secondition of that later on. That was an ancient Greek
Speaker 2: magic and I'm currently working at the book based around
Speaker 2: a manuscript from the Victorian Age written by Chuckel Frederick Hockley,
Speaker 2: which I transcribing from is rather beautiful but not pretty
Speaker 2: easy to read handwriting into modern English, which I should
Speaker 2: be publishing the next month or so. That's the next
Speaker 2: one I shall be releasing. Yeah, Ace, I'm writing on Bubbysha.
Speaker 1: Well, Andy, thank you so much for coming on. It's
Speaker 1: been awesome talking to you, and it's been way too long,
Speaker 1: so we're going to have to do this again, definitely. Okay, Oh,
Speaker 1: thank you again and talk to you sin. And that
Speaker 1: was Andy Mercer. He was an expert in the Occult
Speaker 1: and is also the station manager here at the Paranormal
Speaker 1: UK Radio Network and is involved with a few of
Speaker 1: our other shows as well. Andy again is a longtime
Speaker 1: friend and is really great to talk to him one
Speaker 1: on one again like this, so we'd already discussed we're
Speaker 1: going to have him back in the future. We're going
Speaker 1: to nail down the topic of what we want to
Speaker 1: talk about, because we did a very broad discussion tonight,
Speaker 1: so we'll pick something and go more in depth next time.
Speaker 1: So until next week, you all have a great week
Speaker 1: and upcoming weekend spring is on the way, and be
Speaker 1: good humans. We'll catch you later.