WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:05.000 You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best 2 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:08.919 in paranormal talk radio in the UK and around the world. 3 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:30.839 Hey everyone, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you 4 00:00:30.920 --> 00:00:34.840 happen to be in this particular timeline, Welcome to trans 5 00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:38.880 Dimensional Realities, where we delve into the stranger aspects of 6 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:43.520 high strangeness in our current reality. I'm your host, Melissa Lee, 7 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:46.799 and I'm really looking forward to this show tonight. We've 8 00:00:46.799 --> 00:00:50.000 got a great guest who also happens to be the 9 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:56.119 station manager here at Paranormal UK Radio Network. Tonight we're 10 00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:59.840 talking with Andy Mercer, and Andy who's been with us 11 00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:02.280 for a very long time. He's been a guest on 12 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:07.799 several of our programs and he specializes in the occult, 13 00:01:08.680 --> 00:01:11.879 and so we're going to be really delving deep into 14 00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:15.640 some strange aspects of things that a lot of people 15 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:19.359 don't know about but yet I feel are very important. 16 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:22.799 So please welcome Andy Mercer to the program. Hi. 17 00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:26.480 Andy, Yeah, it's great to be here. It's your new show, 18 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:29.799 of course, to put out a few times on the site, 19 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:31.760 and I must have meted to listen to more of it. 20 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:33.519 It's been what I've heard soars were really good fun 21 00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:35.239 so it's good to hear it coming. 22 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:38.200 Yeah, it's been really good. If you listen to the 23 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:42.680 last show I did with Tim Malone, I mean that 24 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:46.640 one was a really interesting conversation about past lives and 25 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:49.359 he had a very interesting take on it wasn't like 26 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:52.560 the usual that I've done. So yeah, I have anybody 27 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:56.280 who hasn't listened to that one yet go and pull 28 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:59.319 it up and listen to it both on the Paranormal 29 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:04.319 UK Radio Network website or on a podcast where every 30 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:06.040 whatever major podcasts are out there. 31 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:11.719 We are there, so our YouTube channel and on YouTube 32 00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:13.400 channel soon as I like to give it a bit 33 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:15.719 of space and time, but on the other platforms first, 34 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:17.520 so we get it's good area before it goes up 35 00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:17.960 on the YouTube. 36 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:25.240 All got there, definitely, okay, So anyway you have you know, 37 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:27.840 we've we've been working together for god how many years now, 38 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:29.319 it's been quite a long time. 39 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:34.319 While funny enough, Steve Orden I and Susie West recorded 40 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:37.520 the seventh anniversary show of our High Strangers Factor at 41 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:39.520 the weekend, so that'll be coming up on fairly soon 42 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:42.280 as Well've it all together and that's for seven years 43 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:45.199 of that so at least longer than that. Obviously we've 44 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:47.840 known each other, so it's absolutely flawing by I was funny. 45 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:50.439 I was thinking about the weekend we've talked, miss feel 46 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:54.000 about that, just remembering it was. It must have been 47 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:57.919 like twenty sixteen, fifteen fourteen, somewhere around there. I think 48 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:01.840 it must have started when I was I had trained 49 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:03.919 his school teacher, if you remember, I talked for a 50 00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:08.240 little while and left because just a diet circumstance is 51 00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:10.080 not very good school I was at long story, I 52 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:12.479 won't get all of it, but I think we started 53 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:15.360 chatting just after that, and that was which is when 54 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:21.560 I was all fourteen, I think tween fourteen fifteen, So yeah. 55 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:22.000 Of course I had the pleasure of coming out there 56 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:24.639 and meeting you and your wife a couple of years ago. 57 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:28.240 So yeah, A wonderful time in Bath and a lovely 58 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:31.400 city which I was in again fairly recently and wanted 59 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:34.520 to have a nice walk around the Cathedraeorge is fantastic 60 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:36.520 and I found unfortunately it was closed for the day 61 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:40.360 because all the university graduating ceremonies very annoying. It is 62 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:41.840 a lovely cath. 63 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:47.199 I hate it when that happens. So anyway, you, as 64 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:50.639 I introduced you, you, I have been researching and involved 65 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:53.759 with the occult for many years, and I was wondering 66 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:56.879 if you could explain to those people in the audience 67 00:03:56.879 --> 00:04:00.919 who may not totally understand what that means, or maybe 68 00:04:00.919 --> 00:04:03.919 they have some preconceptions of what the occult stands for. 69 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:09.120 Well, people certainly do have all sorts of preconceived notions 70 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:12.360 of what it actually means. The term itself just means hidden, 71 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:16.839 secret information, and the idea is to bring that information 72 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:20.720 into the light. My particular era of interest is what's 73 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:24.439 known as ceremonial magic, which is often called higher magic, 74 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:28.240 which involves things like the magic of Solomon and ancient 75 00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:31.639 Jewish texts and that sort of thing. It's working with 76 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:33.959 angels and spirits, but on the other side, of course, 77 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:36.959 is working with demons as well, from sort of verse, 78 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:40.720 denizens of Hell and the like. So that's my era 79 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:44.959 of interest, particularly with old grimoire magic, which goes back 80 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:49.519 to sort of fifteen sixteen hundreds actually finding and my 81 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:54.000 case of my own research is often transcribing handwritten documents 82 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:57.399 into typed form, which then I'm actually publishing as a publisher. 83 00:04:57.639 --> 00:05:02.160 But My interest really is in that understanding of knowledge. 84 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:04.519 The nois of you, like is the term itself and 85 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:07.439 used if you think of religion as being faith and 86 00:05:07.480 --> 00:05:12.240 belief about God and what have you, and that short 87 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:14.439 precludes the idea of knowledge of these things. That the 88 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:17.120 idea of knowing about these things is you shouldn't be 89 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:19.920 doing that. You should have faith and belief and recognize 90 00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:24.800 the mystery of whatever. This is more about understand what 91 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:28.879 these things are, what power is supposed to exist, what 92 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:31.079 what you can do with it? And I'm very kind 93 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:34.560 of vague. It's acts a broad topic to kind of 94 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:37.079 give a fairly concise answer to it. It's generally the 95 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:41.360 idea of what is there that's beyond the physical realm, 96 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:45.480 what energies exist, what forces exist? Are there literal angels 97 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:48.439 and literal demons they really exist? Are they mental constructs 98 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:51.040 or something between the two. That's been my kind of 99 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:55.680 era of interest. I've worked with, say what's called ceremonial 100 00:05:55.720 --> 00:06:00.519 magic and poetic magic, which is key of Solomon et cetera. 101 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:02.680 But one of my big eras of interest is a 102 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:07.920 called doctor John d who was elizabethan astrologer and scientists mathematician, 103 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:11.399 was a friend of the first and he wanted to, 104 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:14.360 like a lot of occultists, understand more about how the 105 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:17.079 universe worked, how the worlds worked. But he came to 106 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:19.879 the idea and conclusion that in order to find out 107 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:22.600 more information, you had to talk to God or God's 108 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:26.759 angels directly, and he devised what he didn't devise a 109 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:31.120 sort of discovered a system of communication using a crystal ball, 110 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:35.120 which is what we call scrying, and he would use 111 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:38.079 a seer whould look into the crystal ball and described 112 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:42.600 to what he was seeing Edward Kelly. Kelly wouldn't describe 113 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:44.240 what he was seeing, and de would make note of it, 114 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:46.720 and this is called it a knocky in magic, which 115 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:48.439 is something I found very interesting when I first got 116 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:51.160 interested in the occult way back in the midst of time. 117 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:57.079 So I explored that area specifically, and my interest grew 118 00:06:57.079 --> 00:06:59.360 from that point of being interested in one particular form 119 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:03.639 of magic occult work into a more broader image idea 120 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:05.439 of all the other forms of a cult and more 121 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:09.639 things like witchcraft and particularly British traditional witchcraft, which is 122 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:12.720 again it's about sort of magical manipulation of the environment 123 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:15.439 around you, which is kind of what the cult is. 124 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:18.079 More generally, it's that kind of manipulation of energy, is 125 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:21.959 understanding how it's all working. Now, what you decide for 126 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:24.720 yourself about what's really going and whether agels and dehumans 127 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:27.480 exist or real beings or not, it's kind of up 128 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:29.800 to you. I mean, there's good arguments in both directions. 129 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:33.000 You know, which is more real? Is it a psychological 130 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:35.199 thing or is it an energy thing? Or are there 131 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:38.199 real beings from other planes? You kind of end up 132 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:40.560 sort of figuring it out for yourself. Almost There are 133 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:42.839 people who will tell you it's definitely, oh yes, there's 134 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:45.120 a real literal heaven and literal hell, these beings come 135 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:48.240 from there. Others would say, none of this is sort 136 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:51.439 of collective unconscious archetype material that you talk about in psychology. 137 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.800 That's really what's going on here. And no one's right, 138 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:56.279 no one's wrong because you can't prove either way. All 139 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:58.399 you can say is for your own experience is whether 140 00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:02.040 anything actually works. If you try using ritual magic to 141 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:05.839 try and contact being some other realities, do you find 142 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:08.879 you actually contacting those things? Do you feel you're experiencing something? 143 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:11.959 And I think those who've been serious practitioners for years 144 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:14.040 or two. Yes, there is something, you know what it is. 145 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:16.639 You have to say that there is something to it, 146 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:20.079 so it's and then actually it's really trying to understand 147 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:22.720 the mechanics. If you're like of reality, beyond the sort 148 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:26.240 of physical stuff film and science, there's more going on, which, 149 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:29.040 as I say, for me, the conclusion is there is 150 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:31.279 something going on. Well exactly is I don't know, you 151 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:34.399 know how exactly it works. I wouldn't like to say diffinitively. 152 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:37.480 I have my own ideas. I think it's something those 153 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:40.440 two ideas of these being seen to exist, but they're 154 00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:43.559 not necessarily independent of us. There's some kind of connection 155 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:48.279 to us as humans, that they exist almost within us 156 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:49.919 as well as beyond us. It's a find of a 157 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:52.559 middle grad between the two. That's my personal thinking. But 158 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:54.559 as I say, others will tell you completely differently that 159 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:57.200 these things are real beings to someone, something from a 160 00:08:57.279 --> 00:08:59.720 literal hell and the servant of Satan, if you like. 161 00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:03.240 But I wouldn't be so sure myself if that's the case. 162 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:06.120 But as I know people who would tell you that 163 00:09:06.279 --> 00:09:08.519 is the case. And I don't say, all you're completely wrong, 164 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:11.240 because I don't know, you know, each would say the 165 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:14.600 other we don't really know. We have our beliefs, their ideas, 166 00:09:14.679 --> 00:09:17.679 no evidence, but what we actually believe is up to us. 167 00:09:17.720 --> 00:09:22.679 But fundamentally, this stuff is about understanding how reality appears 168 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:26.399 to work, trying to understand or at least get a 169 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:30.120 glimpse of the wiring under the ball, the sort of 170 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:32.120 the fabular reality, how it's all actually working. 171 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:39.679 So that was, well, that's right up my alley, because 172 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:42.080 I'm like you, I want to know how things work. 173 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:49.000 I don't go just on belief or faith, because you 174 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:51.200 know what, I've been wrong enough in my lifetime, and 175 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:54.480 the more I seem to learn the different directions it 176 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:57.639 pulls me. You know, That's why I name the show 177 00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:02.159 what it is trans dimensional Realities. It's looking beyond what 178 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:05.519 we think of is reality and all the other forces 179 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:08.279 that we deal with on a daily basis that most 180 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:11.879 people can't see, they ignore, or they just don't want 181 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:15.519 to believe in. And there there are so many different 182 00:10:15.639 --> 00:10:22.080 energies and forces that are surrounding us. And I always 183 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:25.279 liken it to like the light spectrum. You know, you 184 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:28.159 look at the whole electromagnetic spectrum. We see this one 185 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:31.879 little sliver and we have everything going this way into 186 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:35.879 infrared and to ultraviolet, and it's all there, but we 187 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:38.559 can only see this part. And that's how I look at. 188 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:43.440 Reality absolutely, and that is essentially it is. There are 189 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:48.799 clearly other levels of existence, are the parts of the 190 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:51.919 spectrum as you put it, that we can see almost 191 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:54.120 by reflection that I mean, I find a lot of 192 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:57.240 crossover between the cult stuff and the paranorm which was 193 00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:01.360 not the big fit of interesting ghosts, et cetera. I mean, 194 00:11:01.559 --> 00:11:04.320 I've come to the conclusion, which maybe a little bit controversial, 195 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:08.440 of the ghosts, aliens, spirits, demons, they're all the same thing. 196 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:12.480 There are different forms of manifestation, are the same fundamental 197 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:15.240 whatever it is, they just take on different forms. One 198 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:16.799 of the things I found quite fastic with the cold 199 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:19.080 Bat stuff is that you can work for saver example, 200 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:21.639 traditional witchcraft, which I've used. You can work with a 201 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:24.240 knocking system which I've used. You work with rooms which 202 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:26.759 I've used. All three systems are very different to each other, 203 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:31.440 and yet all three work. Now there has to be 204 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:33.759 some kind of continuity between the three of them for 205 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.080 all three very very different systems to actually produce results. 206 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:39.440 And I say, my thinking is that you're dealing with 207 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:44.200 an underlying any level, which then you can aldo and 208 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:47.639 manipulate according to those patterns that you're using. Eyes if 209 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:51.240 using Rune magic example, or Icelandic stage magic, which is 210 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:54.360 are much more powerful magical system that comes from Iceland, 211 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:57.559 but it's related to roots, but it's slightly different. But 212 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:00.720 I've used that stuff and find it can be effective. 213 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:03.360 I've used to say a noki and sprite. Trying to 214 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:06.360 travel to literally other realms is how you feel you're 215 00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:09.320 going to You're experiencing beings creatures that ivery want to 216 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:11.639 call them in those other realms when you're working with them. 217 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:14.440 And again with more traditional ceremonial magic, you're doing with 218 00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:18.720 more traditionally named spirits that you find listed for centuries, 219 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:21.559 a list of demons and a go isha, for example, 220 00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:24.639 the beings that Solomon is supposed to controlled the Testament 221 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:27.679 Solomon for the thursdayentury. You can work with those traditionally 222 00:12:27.799 --> 00:12:29.960 named creatures being what if you want to call them 223 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.200 and they also respond. So the fact you have different 224 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:35.960 systems that are very different to each other, yet all 225 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:39.440 three seem to work suggest there's something underneath all that 226 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:43.080 that is that use what you're actually interacting with and 227 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:45.240 again some people wouldn't beprieve what I'm saying. It would 228 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:47.600 say that, you know, they believe witchcraft is the form 229 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:49.399 and that's the power of something else Stu as nonsense. 230 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:53.039 Maybe that's how they want to work. But as I say, 231 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:56.399 if you work dedicatedly and authentically you have any of 232 00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:59.840 those systems, you get results. When I say a results, 233 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:04.480 I mean you whatever you're trying to create effect occurs. 234 00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:08.879 One of the things to find is that people sometimes 235 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:11.679 talk about good versus evil, black and white magic, et cetera, 236 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:14.759 et cetera. It's a bit of a nonsense because really 237 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:18.320 it is what you do with it, whatever you're trying 238 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:23.279 to achieve with magical systems. You know, you can certainly 239 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:27.799 use stuff to have detrimental effect on other people if 240 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:30.240 you want to, and you can use the same stuff 241 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:34.440 to have positive effect. It depends how you apply it. It's 242 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:36.879 like anything any kind of weapon, if you like, you know, 243 00:13:36.919 --> 00:13:39.320 depends so you want to make use of it. It 244 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:41.639 becomes a negative or a positive thing. You know, it 245 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:43.799 is very much how you apply it. So you get 246 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:45.120 a lot of people say, oh, you don't work with 247 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.039 goetic demons or evil monsters, you know, well, it depends 248 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:50.639 if you approach them with that kind of attitude, that's 249 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:54.720 what you'll experience. If you work more positive in adhere 250 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:57.240 to whatever is required to some of these things that 251 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:00.519 don't be quite friendly, it will be communicative. So it 252 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:03.720 is often more about how you as a person approach 253 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.279 these different forms of magic and you account will give 254 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:09.360 you a different kind of response depending on what, say, 255 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:11.159 how you're doing, and who you are as a person 256 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:14.320 as well. That great difference. One of the things that 257 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:16.240 struck me early on working with the knock in is 258 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:20.200 saying scrying or you can bring things to you to 259 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.720 communicate with, or you go to their realms if you like. 260 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:26.360 How what I was experiencing when I would work to it 261 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:28.519 was quite different to say, for example, so when Alista 262 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:32.360 Crowd may have heard of as well, the tourists magician 263 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:35.360 from the early nineteen hundreds, when he worked with a 264 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:38.879 knock in, he had very different visions experiences to what 265 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:42.080 I was experiencing. So I was a little bit thought, 266 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:46.399 that's interesting, it's different. But back in the say the nineties, 267 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:48.759 nearly days the Internet, I found a guy who was 268 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.639 in Denmark who had been working the same system and 269 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:56.480 was reporting back on his website his experiences, and I 270 00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:59.519 was struck remarkably similar. They were to my own much 271 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:02.240 closer because just Any's built and so is he with 272 00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:04.000 knew of us or asked so Crowley, so we weren't 273 00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:07.440 having the Crowleian type of experiences. So it seemed to 274 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:09.279 me very much that it does depend on who you 275 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:13.000 are and how you approach ritual magic for it in 276 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:15.120 terms of how it then works or doesn't work for you. 277 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:17.360 I think if people go with the wrong attitude, they 278 00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:19.720 don't get anywhere with it and dismiss it as been nonsense. 279 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:22.240 And often that's what people do. They don't take the 280 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:26.360 time or make the effort to really understand on experience 281 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:30.559 and practice what they're doing. So it is it's an 282 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:35.279 interesting thing to find stuff that does actually work well. 283 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:41.000 My personal opinion and my experiences are that it doesn't 284 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:46.000 really matter what you're working with. We are the conduits, 285 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:52.799 we we are energy, we are spirit inhabiting these meat 286 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:59.159 suits that can interact with these other realms, these other dimensions, 287 00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:04.320 and it's all about intent. It doesn't matter what rituals 288 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:09.159 you use, what practices is if you're putting out the intent. 289 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:16.360 Perfect example, I studied under shamanism about ten years ago 290 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.519 and learning to be a shamanic practitioner and doing healing 291 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:25.200 and the connections that you make there is they call 292 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:30.799 it journeying, and in a meditative state through drumming, you 293 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:35.440 enter into these other worlds, whether it's the upper, middle 294 00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:41.559 or lower world, and interact with your animal totems, spirit guides, 295 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:45.919 any other types of realms. And it's very similar to 296 00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:49.360 what you're talking about. So I really think a lot 297 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:57.120 of it is defined by our own perceptions, cultural perceptions, 298 00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:01.600 and you can use multiple different types of techniques and 299 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:04.000 as long as you have that intent and putting that 300 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:08.279 energy out there, it will work for you. When you 301 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:11.240 were talking about the scrying, it reminds me very much 302 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:14.680 of what an astro damist did with scrying in the 303 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.400 ball of water and getting his visions. 304 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:22.480 That's exactly. It was a particular form of not just 305 00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:25.000 divination as in seeing the future like not of damas, 306 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:28.920 but that spirit communication by means of crystal or water 307 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:31.680 or any surface that was reflected. But you're right, it 308 00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:33.519 is that the shamans and the idea of the drum 309 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:36.559 in that you could chanting teach you into a different 310 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:39.960 mental or state. And with the knaki in for example, 311 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:42.519 you say in the Knockian chant, it's a knocking called 312 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:47.000 in the Knochi language to initiate this communication, and so 313 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:48.640 you do the same thing. It put you into a 314 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:52.160 particular trance state. The things which you know also from 315 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:54.960 the shamanistic work, and I know from a knocking and others. 316 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:58.279 It's not like imagination. There is a clarity and strength 317 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.519 of imagery and vision that is much much stronger than 318 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:05.359 something you're imagining. It's not even like you're just dreaming. 319 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:07.880 It is literally you're awake, but you're aware that you 320 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:12.599 are experiencing some of these extraordinary non ordinary That's the thing. 321 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:16.519 I recently gave a talk at the Glastinarycult conference here 322 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:20.119 in Investory in the UK, talking about working with a 323 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:23.799 book called The Secret Grimoiterurial, which is agreem Wir that 324 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:26.119 was the originally thought to have been a modern fake, 325 00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:28.960 but later it has been discovered probably in the eighteen hundred, 326 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:31.079 so it's not that old, but it's older than they 327 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:34.279 thought and certainly based on earlier material. And the second 328 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:36.279 half of my talk I talked about that particular Boud 329 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:37.920 the history, but the second half I talked about my 330 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:41.079 personal experiences very early on when I first started working 331 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:44.119 with ritual magic, and describing how you have to set 332 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.079 up a number of items. You have the things you 333 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:49.119 have to burn incense, and you have to create schedules 334 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:51.640 which are these sort of symbols as you put onto parchment, 335 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:54.920 and then you try to communicate, you reader and invocation 336 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:57.960 and look for communication. And I noticed in those early days, 337 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:00.839 you're not doing because there was nobody else around. I 338 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:03.640 knew about this. This is pre internet days. Of course, I 339 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:06.519 was aware of our presences around me when I did this. 340 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:10.279 I wasn't wasn't seeing beings before or anything like that, 341 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:15.000 but a very definite sense of energy form around me, 342 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:19.079 creatures beings around me, like you know you So you 343 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:20.759 walk into a room with ice closed, you can just 344 00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:23.200 tell that someone in the room and someone there that 345 00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:25.599 kind of feeling you just knew that someone with you. 346 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.960 Never communicatord, never said very much all answer, but just 347 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:34.480 a sense of you've called me here. I am here. 348 00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:37.000 I'm not going to do anything, I'm not gonna say anything, 349 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:41.000 but I am here. The only thing I would notice 350 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:43.519 was from enough I can't mention in the conference that 351 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:47.119 you'd be in that state for a while, mental state, 352 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:49.799 and then you'd say the lightning to depart, which clears 353 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:52.319 these things out and you have a sense it was gone. 354 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:55.400 But I used to notice what can really call political 355 00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:58.680 activity in my room afterwards. For two or three days, 356 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:01.160 I'd little bangs and knots on the walls, often the 357 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:03.400 outside walls, water outside war was. It was like the 358 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.319 neighbors or parents at the time, and objects move around 359 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:09.640 my room, little just little things just would be gone 360 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:11.680 and come back in a couple of days later they 361 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:14.880 discipline and reappear in my room in different spots or 362 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:16.799 things has been moved. When I left in the morning, 363 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:18.359 it was one place to come back after work and 364 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:21.279 it was somewhere else. So that was my real first 365 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:24.039 experiences and realized, yes, this stuff was doing something, is 366 00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:27.759 something really is going on now. You know, people were easy, 367 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.720 so it's just your imagination. You just you imagine these 368 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:33.559 beings there. But no, there was a definite sense there 369 00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:37.279 was really something to it, and that fascinated me for years. 370 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:39.400 I mean, I had my earlier ghost experience was I've 371 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.279 talked about before and on your shop I'm sure I 372 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.920 having seen something when I was ten eleven years old, 373 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:48.799 but this second experience in my early twenties working with 374 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:51.880 this stuff was just as powerful, even I never saw anything, 375 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.119 and that's what took me into this, this interest in 376 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:58.960 this hidden world if you like, and exploring it further. 377 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.240 But certainly you're right whatever. If you have a known 378 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:07.839 belief in what you're doing, these whatever they are, will 379 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:11.200 respond to. That doesn't matter. You can have all the 380 00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:13.240 parapherny because some of the ritual stuff you do with 381 00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:18.279 cermony magic involves an awful lot of stuff. You know, clothing, investments, 382 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:22.920 particular persons. You have to have all sorts of items, swords, daggers, 383 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:25.160 and cut spend yours, all sorts of things you need to 384 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:27.559 have for these rituals. You can have all that stuff, 385 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:30.880 have custom made for your great expense. But if you 386 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:33.559 don't have the belief in what you're doing, if you're 387 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:35.559 just doing it because you think you have to dress 388 00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:38.200 this way and you just follow it blindly, you get 389 00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:41.160 any because nothing happens because you don't have that belief. 390 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:43.119 You have to have that faith. If you've got and 391 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:46.000 made stuff yourself, what a wooden sword from a kid's 392 00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:47.960 toy shop and just painted out with symbols on it, 393 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:50.519 rather than these big dramatic metal metal sort about the 394 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:53.480 bithrom somewhere that can be just as powerful because you 395 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:55.759 have faith in what you're doing and it is about that. 396 00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:59.279 So I think all these different systems of magic and 397 00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:03.279 your cold are different ways of working that work with 398 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:06.000 you as a person. Culture obviously plays a part as well, 399 00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:08.839 but you can obviously cultures have different systems of magic. 400 00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:12.480 But like an example, we've got so many differs from 401 00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:15.279