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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best

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in paranormal talk radio in the UK and around the world.

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Hey everyone, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you

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happen to be in this particular timeline, Welcome to trans

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Dimensional Realities, where we delve into the stranger aspects of

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high strangeness in our current reality. I'm your host, Melissa Lee,

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and I'm really looking forward to this show tonight. We've

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got a great guest who also happens to be the

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station manager here at Paranormal UK Radio Network. Tonight we're

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talking with Andy Mercer, and Andy who's been with us

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for a very long time. He's been a guest on

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several of our programs and he specializes in the occult,

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and so we're going to be really delving deep into

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some strange aspects of things that a lot of people

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don't know about but yet I feel are very important.

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So please welcome Andy Mercer to the program. Hi.

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Speaker 2: Andy, Yeah, it's great to be here. It's your new show,

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of course, to put out a few times on the site,

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and I must have meted to listen to more of it.

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It's been what I've heard soars were really good fun

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so it's good to hear it coming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been really good. If you listen to the

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last show I did with Tim Malone, I mean that

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one was a really interesting conversation about past lives and

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he had a very interesting take on it wasn't like

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the usual that I've done. So yeah, I have anybody

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who hasn't listened to that one yet go and pull

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it up and listen to it both on the Paranormal

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UK Radio Network website or on a podcast where every

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whatever major podcasts are out there.

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Speaker 2: We are there, so our YouTube channel and on YouTube

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channel soon as I like to give it a bit

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of space and time, but on the other platforms first,

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so we get it's good area before it goes up

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on the YouTube.

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Speaker 1: All got there, definitely, okay, So anyway you have you know,

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we've we've been working together for god how many years now,

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it's been quite a long time.

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Speaker 2: While funny enough, Steve Orden I and Susie West recorded

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the seventh anniversary show of our High Strangers Factor at

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the weekend, so that'll be coming up on fairly soon

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as Well've it all together and that's for seven years

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of that so at least longer than that. Obviously we've

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known each other, so it's absolutely flawing by I was funny.

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I was thinking about the weekend we've talked, miss feel

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about that, just remembering it was. It must have been

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like twenty sixteen, fifteen fourteen, somewhere around there. I think

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it must have started when I was I had trained

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his school teacher, if you remember, I talked for a

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little while and left because just a diet circumstance is

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not very good school I was at long story, I

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won't get all of it, but I think we started

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chatting just after that, and that was which is when

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I was all fourteen, I think tween fourteen fifteen, So yeah.

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Speaker 1: Of course I had the pleasure of coming out there

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and meeting you and your wife a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, A wonderful time in Bath and a lovely

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city which I was in again fairly recently and wanted

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to have a nice walk around the Cathedraeorge is fantastic

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and I found unfortunately it was closed for the day

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because all the university graduating ceremonies very annoying. It is

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a lovely cath.

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Speaker 1: I hate it when that happens. So anyway, you, as

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I introduced you, you, I have been researching and involved

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with the occult for many years, and I was wondering

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if you could explain to those people in the audience

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who may not totally understand what that means, or maybe

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they have some preconceptions of what the occult stands for.

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Speaker 2: Well, people certainly do have all sorts of preconceived notions

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of what it actually means. The term itself just means hidden,

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secret information, and the idea is to bring that information

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into the light. My particular era of interest is what's

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known as ceremonial magic, which is often called higher magic,

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which involves things like the magic of Solomon and ancient

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Jewish texts and that sort of thing. It's working with

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angels and spirits, but on the other side, of course,

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is working with demons as well, from sort of verse,

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denizens of Hell and the like. So that's my era

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of interest, particularly with old grimoire magic, which goes back

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to sort of fifteen sixteen hundreds actually finding and my

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case of my own research is often transcribing handwritten documents

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into typed form, which then I'm actually publishing as a publisher.

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But My interest really is in that understanding of knowledge.

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The nois of you, like is the term itself and

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used if you think of religion as being faith and

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belief about God and what have you, and that short

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precludes the idea of knowledge of these things. That the

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idea of knowing about these things is you shouldn't be

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doing that. You should have faith and belief and recognize

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the mystery of whatever. This is more about understand what

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these things are, what power is supposed to exist, what

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what you can do with it? And I'm very kind

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of vague. It's acts a broad topic to kind of

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give a fairly concise answer to it. It's generally the

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idea of what is there that's beyond the physical realm,

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what energies exist, what forces exist? Are there literal angels

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and literal demons they really exist? Are they mental constructs

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or something between the two. That's been my kind of

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era of interest. I've worked with, say what's called ceremonial

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magic and poetic magic, which is key of Solomon et cetera.

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But one of my big eras of interest is a

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called doctor John d who was elizabethan astrologer and scientists mathematician,

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was a friend of the first and he wanted to,

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like a lot of occultists, understand more about how the

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universe worked, how the worlds worked. But he came to

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the idea and conclusion that in order to find out

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more information, you had to talk to God or God's

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angels directly, and he devised what he didn't devise a

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sort of discovered a system of communication using a crystal ball,

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which is what we call scrying, and he would use

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a seer whould look into the crystal ball and described

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to what he was seeing Edward Kelly. Kelly wouldn't describe

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what he was seeing, and de would make note of it,

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and this is called it a knocky in magic, which

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is something I found very interesting when I first got

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interested in the occult way back in the midst of time.

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So I explored that area specifically, and my interest grew

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from that point of being interested in one particular form

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of magic occult work into a more broader image idea

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of all the other forms of a cult and more

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things like witchcraft and particularly British traditional witchcraft, which is

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again it's about sort of magical manipulation of the environment

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around you, which is kind of what the cult is.

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More generally, it's that kind of manipulation of energy, is

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understanding how it's all working. Now, what you decide for

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yourself about what's really going and whether agels and dehumans

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exist or real beings or not, it's kind of up

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to you. I mean, there's good arguments in both directions.

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You know, which is more real? Is it a psychological

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thing or is it an energy thing? Or are there

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real beings from other planes? You kind of end up

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sort of figuring it out for yourself. Almost There are

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people who will tell you it's definitely, oh yes, there's

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a real literal heaven and literal hell, these beings come

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from there. Others would say, none of this is sort

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of collective unconscious archetype material that you talk about in psychology.

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That's really what's going on here. And no one's right,

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no one's wrong because you can't prove either way. All

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you can say is for your own experience is whether

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anything actually works. If you try using ritual magic to

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try and contact being some other realities, do you find

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you actually contacting those things? Do you feel you're experiencing something?

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And I think those who've been serious practitioners for years

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or two. Yes, there is something, you know what it is.

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You have to say that there is something to it,

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so it's and then actually it's really trying to understand

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the mechanics. If you're like of reality, beyond the sort

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of physical stuff film and science, there's more going on, which,

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as I say, for me, the conclusion is there is

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something going on. Well exactly is I don't know, you

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know how exactly it works. I wouldn't like to say diffinitively.

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I have my own ideas. I think it's something those

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two ideas of these being seen to exist, but they're

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not necessarily independent of us. There's some kind of connection

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to us as humans, that they exist almost within us

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as well as beyond us. It's a find of a

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middle grad between the two. That's my personal thinking. But

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as I say, others will tell you completely differently that

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these things are real beings to someone, something from a

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literal hell and the servant of Satan, if you like.

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But I wouldn't be so sure myself if that's the case.

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But as I know people who would tell you that

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is the case. And I don't say, all you're completely wrong,

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because I don't know, you know, each would say the

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other we don't really know. We have our beliefs, their ideas,

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no evidence, but what we actually believe is up to us.

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But fundamentally, this stuff is about understanding how reality appears

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to work, trying to understand or at least get a

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glimpse of the wiring under the ball, the sort of

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the fabular reality, how it's all actually working.

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Speaker 1: So that was, well, that's right up my alley, because

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I'm like you, I want to know how things work.

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I don't go just on belief or faith, because you

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know what, I've been wrong enough in my lifetime, and

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the more I seem to learn the different directions it

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pulls me. You know, That's why I name the show

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what it is trans dimensional Realities. It's looking beyond what

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we think of is reality and all the other forces

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that we deal with on a daily basis that most

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people can't see, they ignore, or they just don't want

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to believe in. And there there are so many different

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energies and forces that are surrounding us. And I always

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liken it to like the light spectrum. You know, you

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look at the whole electromagnetic spectrum. We see this one

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little sliver and we have everything going this way into

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infrared and to ultraviolet, and it's all there, but we

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can only see this part. And that's how I look at.

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Speaker 2: Reality absolutely, and that is essentially it is. There are

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clearly other levels of existence, are the parts of the

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spectrum as you put it, that we can see almost

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by reflection that I mean, I find a lot of

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crossover between the cult stuff and the paranorm which was

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not the big fit of interesting ghosts, et cetera. I mean,

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I've come to the conclusion, which maybe a little bit controversial,

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of the ghosts, aliens, spirits, demons, they're all the same thing.

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There are different forms of manifestation, are the same fundamental

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whatever it is, they just take on different forms. One

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of the things I found quite fastic with the cold

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Bat stuff is that you can work for saver example,

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traditional witchcraft, which I've used. You can work with a

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knocking system which I've used. You work with rooms which

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I've used. All three systems are very different to each other,

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and yet all three work. Now there has to be

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some kind of continuity between the three of them for

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all three very very different systems to actually produce results.

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And I say, my thinking is that you're dealing with

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an underlying any level, which then you can aldo and

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manipulate according to those patterns that you're using. Eyes if

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using Rune magic example, or Icelandic stage magic, which is

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are much more powerful magical system that comes from Iceland,

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but it's related to roots, but it's slightly different. But

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I've used that stuff and find it can be effective.

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I've used to say a noki and sprite. Trying to

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travel to literally other realms is how you feel you're

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going to You're experiencing beings creatures that ivery want to

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call them in those other realms when you're working with them.

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And again with more traditional ceremonial magic, you're doing with

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more traditionally named spirits that you find listed for centuries,

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a list of demons and a go isha, for example,

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the beings that Solomon is supposed to controlled the Testament

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Solomon for the thursdayentury. You can work with those traditionally

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named creatures being what if you want to call them

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and they also respond. So the fact you have different

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systems that are very different to each other, yet all

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three seem to work suggest there's something underneath all that

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that is that use what you're actually interacting with and

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again some people wouldn't beprieve what I'm saying. It would

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say that, you know, they believe witchcraft is the form

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and that's the power of something else Stu as nonsense.

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Maybe that's how they want to work. But as I say,

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if you work dedicatedly and authentically you have any of

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those systems, you get results. When I say a results,

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I mean you whatever you're trying to create effect occurs.

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One of the things to find is that people sometimes

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talk about good versus evil, black and white magic, et cetera,

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et cetera. It's a bit of a nonsense because really

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it is what you do with it, whatever you're trying

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to achieve with magical systems. You know, you can certainly

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use stuff to have detrimental effect on other people if

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you want to, and you can use the same stuff

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to have positive effect. It depends how you apply it. It's

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like anything any kind of weapon, if you like, you know,

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depends so you want to make use of it. It

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becomes a negative or a positive thing. You know, it

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is very much how you apply it. So you get

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a lot of people say, oh, you don't work with

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goetic demons or evil monsters, you know, well, it depends

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if you approach them with that kind of attitude, that's

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what you'll experience. If you work more positive in adhere

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to whatever is required to some of these things that

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don't be quite friendly, it will be communicative. So it

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is often more about how you as a person approach

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these different forms of magic and you account will give

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you a different kind of response depending on what, say,

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how you're doing, and who you are as a person

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as well. That great difference. One of the things that

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struck me early on working with the knock in is

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saying scrying or you can bring things to you to

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communicate with, or you go to their realms if you like.

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How what I was experiencing when I would work to it

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was quite different to say, for example, so when Alista

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Crowd may have heard of as well, the tourists magician

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from the early nineteen hundreds, when he worked with a

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knock in, he had very different visions experiences to what

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I was experiencing. So I was a little bit thought,

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that's interesting, it's different. But back in the say the nineties,

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nearly days the Internet, I found a guy who was

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in Denmark who had been working the same system and

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was reporting back on his website his experiences, and I

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was struck remarkably similar. They were to my own much

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closer because just Any's built and so is he with

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knew of us or asked so Crowley, so we weren't

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having the Crowleian type of experiences. So it seemed to

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me very much that it does depend on who you

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are and how you approach ritual magic for it in

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terms of how it then works or doesn't work for you.

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I think if people go with the wrong attitude, they

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don't get anywhere with it and dismiss it as been nonsense.

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And often that's what people do. They don't take the

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time or make the effort to really understand on experience

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and practice what they're doing. So it is it's an

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interesting thing to find stuff that does actually work well.

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Speaker 1: My personal opinion and my experiences are that it doesn't

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really matter what you're working with. We are the conduits,

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we we are energy, we are spirit inhabiting these meat

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suits that can interact with these other realms, these other dimensions,

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and it's all about intent. It doesn't matter what rituals

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you use, what practices is if you're putting out the intent.

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Perfect example, I studied under shamanism about ten years ago

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and learning to be a shamanic practitioner and doing healing

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and the connections that you make there is they call

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it journeying, and in a meditative state through drumming, you

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enter into these other worlds, whether it's the upper, middle

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or lower world, and interact with your animal totems, spirit guides,

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any other types of realms. And it's very similar to

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what you're talking about. So I really think a lot

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of it is defined by our own perceptions, cultural perceptions,

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and you can use multiple different types of techniques and

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as long as you have that intent and putting that

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energy out there, it will work for you. When you

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were talking about the scrying, it reminds me very much

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of what an astro damist did with scrying in the

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ball of water and getting his visions.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly. It was a particular form of not just

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divination as in seeing the future like not of damas,

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but that spirit communication by means of crystal or water

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or any surface that was reflected. But you're right, it

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is that the shamans and the idea of the drum

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in that you could chanting teach you into a different

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mental or state. And with the knaki in for example,

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you say in the Knockian chant, it's a knocking called

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in the Knochi language to initiate this communication, and so

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you do the same thing. It put you into a

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particular trance state. The things which you know also from

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the shamanistic work, and I know from a knocking and others.

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It's not like imagination. There is a clarity and strength

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of imagery and vision that is much much stronger than

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something you're imagining. It's not even like you're just dreaming.

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It is literally you're awake, but you're aware that you

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are experiencing some of these extraordinary non ordinary That's the thing.

321
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I recently gave a talk at the Glastinarycult conference here

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in Investory in the UK, talking about working with a

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book called The Secret Grimoiterurial, which is agreem Wir that

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was the originally thought to have been a modern fake,

325
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but later it has been discovered probably in the eighteen hundred,

326
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so it's not that old, but it's older than they

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thought and certainly based on earlier material. And the second

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half of my talk I talked about that particular Boud

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the history, but the second half I talked about my

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personal experiences very early on when I first started working

331
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with ritual magic, and describing how you have to set

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up a number of items. You have the things you

333
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have to burn incense, and you have to create schedules

334
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which are these sort of symbols as you put onto parchment,

335
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and then you try to communicate, you reader and invocation

336
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and look for communication. And I noticed in those early days,

337
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you're not doing because there was nobody else around. I

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knew about this. This is pre internet days. Of course, I

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was aware of our presences around me when I did this.

340
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I wasn't wasn't seeing beings before or anything like that,

341
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but a very definite sense of energy form around me,

342
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creatures beings around me, like you know you So you

343
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walk into a room with ice closed, you can just

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tell that someone in the room and someone there that

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kind of feeling you just knew that someone with you.

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Never communicatord, never said very much all answer, but just

347
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a sense of you've called me here. I am here.

348
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I'm not going to do anything, I'm not gonna say anything,

349
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but I am here. The only thing I would notice

350
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was from enough I can't mention in the conference that

351
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you'd be in that state for a while, mental state,

352
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and then you'd say the lightning to depart, which clears

353
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these things out and you have a sense it was gone.

354
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But I used to notice what can really call political

355
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activity in my room afterwards. For two or three days,

356
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I'd little bangs and knots on the walls, often the

357
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outside walls, water outside war was. It was like the

358
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neighbors or parents at the time, and objects move around

359
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my room, little just little things just would be gone

360
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and come back in a couple of days later they

361
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discipline and reappear in my room in different spots or

362
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things has been moved. When I left in the morning,

363
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it was one place to come back after work and

364
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it was somewhere else. So that was my real first

365
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experiences and realized, yes, this stuff was doing something, is

366
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something really is going on now. You know, people were easy,

367
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so it's just your imagination. You just you imagine these

368
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beings there. But no, there was a definite sense there

369
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was really something to it, and that fascinated me for years.

370
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I mean, I had my earlier ghost experience was I've

371
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talked about before and on your shop I'm sure I

372
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having seen something when I was ten eleven years old,

373
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but this second experience in my early twenties working with

374
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this stuff was just as powerful, even I never saw anything,

375
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and that's what took me into this, this interest in

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this hidden world if you like, and exploring it further.

377
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But certainly you're right whatever. If you have a known

378
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belief in what you're doing, these whatever they are, will

379
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respond to. That doesn't matter. You can have all the

380
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parapherny because some of the ritual stuff you do with

381
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cermony magic involves an awful lot of stuff. You know, clothing, investments,

382
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particular persons. You have to have all sorts of items, swords, daggers,

383
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and cut spend yours, all sorts of things you need to

384
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have for these rituals. You can have all that stuff,

385
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have custom made for your great expense. But if you

386
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don't have the belief in what you're doing, if you're

387
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just doing it because you think you have to dress

388
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this way and you just follow it blindly, you get

389
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any because nothing happens because you don't have that belief.

390
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You have to have that faith. If you've got and

391
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made stuff yourself, what a wooden sword from a kid's

392
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toy shop and just painted out with symbols on it,

393
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rather than these big dramatic metal metal sort about the

394
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bithrom somewhere that can be just as powerful because you

395
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have faith in what you're doing and it is about that.

396
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So I think all these different systems of magic and

397
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your cold are different ways of working that work with

398
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you as a person. Culture obviously plays a part as well,

399
00:22:06,039 --> 00:22:08,839
but you can obviously cultures have different systems of magic.

400
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,480
But like an example, we've got so many differs from

401
00:22:12,519 --> 00:22:15,279
witchcraft up to high so many magic. But if you

402
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,920
have a faith and feel a connection with that stuff,

403
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,559
then it tends to work, you know. But it takes

404
00:22:20,599 --> 00:22:22,960
time and takes effort. Often people aren't be bared to

405
00:22:23,319 --> 00:22:25,839
the work in And one of the things I've often

406
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,960
say about this stuff is it happens too frequently to

407
00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:32,079
be coincidence and not enough to be approvable. It's that

408
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,039
kind of strange middle ground between the two, you know.

409
00:22:34,079 --> 00:22:37,480
It's just there are things that happen. Now this this

410
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,160
is not coincidence. This is something's going on. But I

411
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,839
can't just make it happen out of the blue. It

412
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has to be the right circumstance, right, the situation.

413
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like. That's why science is so quick

414
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,680
to dismiss dismiss it because they can't bring it into

415
00:22:54,720 --> 00:23:00,319
a laboratory and run it under a microscope or and say, see,

416
00:23:00,319 --> 00:23:03,039
we can prove this exists because it doesn't act that way.

417
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:08,319
It's these are energies and there are things working on

418
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:13,319
a different frequency and vibration, so the things that science

419
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:19,400
doesn't understand yet. But ironically, a lot of the Aboriginal

420
00:23:19,599 --> 00:23:24,400
native cultures going back hundreds of thousands of years, they

421
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,839
knew it. They worked with it all the time, everything

422
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from you know in the UK with the Celts and

423
00:23:33,799 --> 00:23:38,200
who else was there you know better than me? Uh

424
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:43,039
here here Native Americans, Aborigines in Australia who are like

425
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some of the oldest people on earth and they've been

426
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working with these energies for millennia.

427
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely like to get back to what you said before

428
00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:55,400
about approval and abroad you because the good at the

429
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,720
best argument against that is pretty love. We all to

430
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,000
love exists, we will experience at some point in our lives.

431
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,640
But you can't prove the laboratory. There's no scientific experiment

432
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,279
you can character prove the distance of love. You can't

433
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,200
prove scientific mechanisms behind falling in love. It's about brain

434
00:24:10,279 --> 00:24:13,400
chemistry changing, of course, But you can't have a room

435
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,440
of fifty people that twenty five mentors, for example, and

436
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,359
see the criteria you can find for them to fall enough.

437
00:24:20,519 --> 00:24:22,799
You know, like, what do you set? What criteria do

438
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:24,480
you set for them to falling out? It just doesn't

439
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,440
work like that. You know, there are things like this

440
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:30,200
that you can't shouldn't be prove or disapproven laboratory. You

441
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,119
have to be out there experience in these things. It's

442
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,920
same with the parallemle in it more generally. You know,

443
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,480
I both know we've had experiences more enough experiences over

444
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,480
the years that we cannot explain scientifically irrationally to know

445
00:24:42,599 --> 00:24:45,799
this something to it. So as you start saying, oh,

446
00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:48,200
it's definitely X y Z reasons these things happen, and

447
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,960
I think you're narrowing the plane field completely because we

448
00:24:51,079 --> 00:24:54,400
just don't know. Again, forty years a studying experiences and stuff.

449
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I know stuff happens because I've seen it, experienced it.

450
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But I wouldn't like to say, wouldn't like to give

451
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,079
you a theory, So why I've never I'm told generally

452
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,119
about these things having no identity and copying what we

453
00:25:06,319 --> 00:25:09,000
do or what we give them. Again, he's only a theory,

454
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,440
he's saying, an idea. I don't know, but it is

455
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,960
true that you can't. We can't we choose things down

456
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,799
to not somewhats with tourism, which is what modern science

457
00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:20,359
tends to do exactly.

458
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 1: It reminds me, I don't know. Do you remember the

459
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,559
movie Contact with Jodie Foster Matthew mc conney back in

460
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:31,880
the nineties. There was that brilliant scene where she's telling

461
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,079
him why she doesn't believe in God because she need

462
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,839
empirical proof, and he says to her, well, did you

463
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,799
love your father? She goes, well, yes, he goes prove it,

464
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,680
and it goes right to what you were saying is

465
00:25:46,079 --> 00:25:51,279
there are things you can't prove in that manner, things

466
00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:55,799
that we can experience, and a lot of what we

467
00:25:55,839 --> 00:26:01,720
can experience, a lot of it happens within, and that's

468
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:07,920
something you can't measure. I've had experiences where I've had downloads,

469
00:26:08,839 --> 00:26:12,200
I've had information come to me. I don't ever call

470
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,839
myself a psychic, although other people say I am, but

471
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:20,000
I'm not there yet, but I have information come to me.

472
00:26:20,559 --> 00:26:25,119
I do tarot readings for people, and I'm able to

473
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,839
the last couple of times i've been out, it's like

474
00:26:30,079 --> 00:26:33,279
I've really been nailing it. And I don't take credit

475
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,240
for that. I think it's whatever's now I'm downloading and

476
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,039
whatever's coming through to me. It was funny. I was

477
00:26:40,079 --> 00:26:44,599
reading for a front couple friend of mine, and I

478
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,559
was reading the husband and the wife was sitting aside,

479
00:26:48,599 --> 00:26:51,599
and she had a little bit to drink. So I'm

480
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,400
reading and I'm saying stuff and she's going, oh, oh, yeah, oh,

481
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,880
And I finally told her shut up sit over there,

482
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,400
and then I had to close my eyes so I

483
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,559
wouldn't look at her because I didn't want to get

484
00:27:04,599 --> 00:27:08,799
those visual cues from her. And I finished the reading

485
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,279
and they told me I nailed it. So again, yeah,

486
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,319
it's with a lot of psychics. Are so called psychics.

487
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:23,119
You deal with people, in my opinion, who maybe have

488
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,480
some things that they're able to tune into, but in

489
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,640
a lot of cases, unfortunately, many of them are nowhere

490
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,559
near as good as they think they are. I don't

491
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:38,160
call anybody an outright charlatan, but I have experienced psychics

492
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:43,599
who just they'll hold the open forums and start throwing

493
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,119
things out there, doing cold readings, and it's just ridiculous.

494
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,119
And yeah, I see somebody who has a problem with

495
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,400
their left knee. Well that's half the audience, especially if

496
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:57,559
they're our age.

497
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 2: You know.

498
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's you have to go within. Everything comes

499
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:10,200
from within. You were mentioning traveling to or interacting with

500
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:16,079
these different realms. Some could call that like assphle traveling.

501
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,880
You know, you're traveling outside of your body but also

502
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:25,000
outside of our reality into these different realms. There's a

503
00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:27,119
lot of different ways to connect.

504
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,799
Speaker 2: So I one of another interesting a bit beyond this

505
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,640
kind of it's comc is in quantum physics, quantum mechanics

506
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,440
and quite just if possible to tell fast and seed

507
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,880
the light, which seemed impossible. But one of the theories

508
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,119
that is out there about how the universe fundermental works

509
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:50,480
is cosmic strings. And these are amost realities in themselves,

510
00:28:50,519 --> 00:28:54,680
the individual kind of realities. Now, if they're non spatially located,

511
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,279
then it's possible that some of the things you're experiencing

512
00:28:57,319 --> 00:29:01,759
are within those microcosmic realms. Then you're literally going inside

513
00:29:01,759 --> 00:29:04,920
these micro micro realms and there is an entire reality

514
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,160
in there that's not working at our dimensions. It's even

515
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,240
it's incredibly small, it's still operates as if it's three

516
00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:16,359
dimensions within it, as possibilities that there is. If the

517
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,119
universe is what the term now where it's not static fixed,

518
00:29:20,119 --> 00:29:22,599
I don't mean in terms of explaining, but it's the

519
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,559
universe exists as a result of something deeper within it,

520
00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:29,119
And it's a term that it's annoying. It's just gone

521
00:29:29,119 --> 00:29:32,640
from my head. Emergent. I think it's called whether the

522
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,759
reality itself that we experience now is a byproduct of

523
00:29:35,839 --> 00:29:39,880
something deeper. If that's the case, which more and more

524
00:29:40,359 --> 00:29:43,640
cosmologists are starting that there is something to this, then

525
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,599
it starts to really open up the possibility of these

526
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,440
realms do exist and there are things beings that are

527
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:53,200
non corporeal, non spatial, that can occupy those realms, and

528
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,519
that maybe what we're communicated. But again it's kind of

529
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,759
a vague through that trying to sort of put throw together.

530
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:01,720
But it's intriguing that whole notion that there could be

531
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,960
this realm and it does actually exist. It's not something

532
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,480
that we can literally physically visit. But we can access

533
00:30:10,519 --> 00:30:14,799
into psychology mentally very possibly not to me. It's fantastic.

534
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,519
Speaker 1: As you mentioned earlier, a lot of what people consider

535
00:30:19,599 --> 00:30:24,079
to be ghosts or cryptids or other types of beings,

536
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:29,640
are these entities that you inhabit, these other realms. They

537
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,680
can come over or onto our side. And there's a

538
00:30:33,799 --> 00:30:39,359
great example that's very popular right now is over here

539
00:30:39,359 --> 00:30:42,160
in the US. There's what they call the Appalachian Mountains,

540
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,039
which is one of the oldest mountain ranges in the world.

541
00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:51,079
It stretches from the Kentucky Tennessee area and goes all

542
00:30:51,119 --> 00:30:54,680
the way up over the globe and actually is into Scotland.

543
00:30:56,039 --> 00:30:58,240
It was all one big mountain range, and some of

544
00:30:58,319 --> 00:31:03,240
it sunk over time, but very very old, connected and

545
00:31:03,319 --> 00:31:10,200
people have so many experiences in these areas that you

546
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,240
can't say it's haunted. It's high strangeness to the extreme.

547
00:31:14,799 --> 00:31:17,599
I mean, it's one thing. People have seen Bigfoot, Okay,

548
00:31:17,759 --> 00:31:21,680
now it's popular, but they also see like this white

549
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,400
like rake, what the rake? They call it? Kind of

550
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:33,039
creature They excuse me, allergies. They hear voices, they things

551
00:31:33,119 --> 00:31:37,599
knock on their doors at night, voices asking to let in.

552
00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:42,440
Mimics and it's all concentrated in this one area along

553
00:31:42,559 --> 00:31:48,319
this mountain range. And there are rules for people living

554
00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:52,640
in Appalachia. They're unwritten rules, but it's like, you close

555
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,480
all your blinds at night, lock your doors, You don't

556
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,519
go out in the woods at night, especially alone. If

557
00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:03,960
you hear whistling, you ignore it. Do not whistle back.

558
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,799
If you hear somebody calling your name, no you didn't.

559
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,119
If you hear some strange creature scream, no you didn't.

560
00:32:13,319 --> 00:32:18,000
And those are their rules to keep people safe. And

561
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,319
a lot of it sounds like superstition, but there's so

562
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,880
much happening in that area. And I feel that we

563
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,519
have those types of hot spots all over the world

564
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:34,839
where these dimensions, that veil is thin and creatures, entities, whatever,

565
00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:37,480
bleed over into our dimension.

566
00:32:39,079 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I can think of a few places over here

567
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,279
in case, one of which I'm going back to for

568
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:48,440
the first time in twenty years at the end of March.

569
00:32:48,519 --> 00:32:54,279
The place Okay, okay, that was a regular there back

570
00:32:54,359 --> 00:32:58,880
nearly two thousands. Working with Fright Nights have investigation nights there.

571
00:32:59,079 --> 00:33:01,279
I hadn't been is, but there's a group I'm not

572
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,279
involved in that's going there and the end of the month,

573
00:33:03,319 --> 00:33:06,400
which we're looking forward to, because that is a very

574
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,759
strange place where you do have all sorts of phenomen

575
00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:11,680
I mean I've literally lost count number of investigations I've

576
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,240
been on there. I mean it was like every it

577
00:33:13,319 --> 00:33:16,000
was every weekend night for about a year. What's working

578
00:33:16,119 --> 00:33:18,559
fright night? So it was one hundred plus and we

579
00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:22,559
always had something happen, definitely something, So, I mean, it's

580
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,720
the value of the place is Builting is called Nymphsfield

581
00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:27,519
to field of nymphs, you know, the very nymphs. So

582
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,039
there's a history of strangeness in this particular value where

583
00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:34,079
the woods just mantain sits. So that's definitely that kind

584
00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:35,559
of place. But I've just read a lot about the

585
00:33:35,559 --> 00:33:37,640
Appolatian Mouths. I'd love to visit one of these days.

586
00:33:37,839 --> 00:33:40,400
I can imagine it amazing. But it does seem to

587
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,240
be there are these places where there's a geological fault

588
00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:46,680
line or a geological effect that seemed to be part

589
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,119
of this strange manifestation of energies that seem to occur

590
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,400
in these particular spots and places in the world. That

591
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:53,799
is quite fascinating.

592
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: I would be interested in doing an investigation out there,

593
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,680
because you know, if there are are certain energies, maybe

594
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,799
it's electromagnetic, maybe it can be measured. Again, this doesn't

595
00:34:06,839 --> 00:34:09,159
happen all the time. It's not like you can set

596
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:12,679
your clock by it. A lot of people have experiences

597
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,079
and maybe there are hotspots. It's a matter of talking

598
00:34:16,119 --> 00:34:19,320
to the right people and going out. There's lots of

599
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,119
videos on the Internet, but of course a lot of

600
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:25,119
them are also fate too. But there's some really interesting

601
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:30,639
ones that I know are not CGI or AI that

602
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,400
have people interacting with things that are I'm sorry, scary

603
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:41,000
as hell, and I don't get scared easily, so I

604
00:34:41,039 --> 00:34:45,559
would really like to go and investigate along that area sometime.

605
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,199
I mean, we do have a part of the Appalachian Mountains,

606
00:34:48,599 --> 00:34:50,840
the Appalachian Trail coming right here where I live in

607
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,079
New Jersey, but most of it seems to happen down

608
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:59,360
in Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia and around those areas.

609
00:35:01,079 --> 00:35:05,679
Speaker 2: Of course, it's said you know so now lives of

610
00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:11,639
course right in the Moth and Prophecies area.

611
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 1: And that could be part of it too, point plus

612
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,199
in West Virginia. But it's also been seen all over

613
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,840
the area, which is a course part of Appalachia.

614
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:23,079
Speaker 2: Absolutely, so there's a It is interesting you can map

615
00:35:23,159 --> 00:35:25,679
this phenomena when you can link it to particular fault

616
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,760
lines and energy fault lines as well. Of first, we

617
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,280
have a lot of a lines in the UK, which

618
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,400
is a matter of debate whether they're januine some kind

619
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,199
of energy field or it's more just old tracking people.

620
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,800
But the strongest one here which again had a lot

621
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,760
of strange things occurd on Michael Lion, which I discovered

622
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,400
to fabe recently runs through my village, so I was

623
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,719
quite oh, that's interesting, you know that sort of massively

624
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,000
tours another part of that my photoglastic before. It's pretty famous.

625
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,840
So we have those sort of energy lines as well.

626
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,599
So it's already in a similar kind of manager to

627
00:35:56,679 --> 00:35:59,679
say this goes directly dragging across the country. And there's

628
00:35:59,679 --> 00:36:02,559
another that comes north to south across the country as

629
00:36:02,599 --> 00:36:04,719
in the main two lay lines of energy that people

630
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,599
do with phenomena along those particular lines, and it is

631
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,599
fascinating to think that there is definitely a kind of

632
00:36:11,639 --> 00:36:13,960
a flow of energy that kind of moves almost around

633
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,639
the world. I think, as you said, the less reach

634
00:36:16,679 --> 00:36:19,920
across the Scotland Mountain lions there. So it is interesting

635
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,400
this kind of network can you get these places of

636
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:25,079
high strangers as wellout to call them. And I've been

637
00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:28,599
watching or rewatching. I know it's TV, but the secret

638
00:36:28,639 --> 00:36:31,039
skin walk arage of and absolutely fascinating is you're talking

639
00:36:31,079 --> 00:36:36,280
about hard science scientists investigating strange phenomena that seems to

640
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,440
be building a picture of something very odd in that

641
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,079
particular area that is genuinely occurring, and it's been measured

642
00:36:43,079 --> 00:36:45,840
as an odd phenomena that seems to affect electronics and

643
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,440
electrical things as well. And I find that so fascinating.

644
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: That's literally my favorite show. And what I like about

645
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,960
the show is the fact that they refuse to jump

646
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,480
to any conclusions. They're out trying to measure and get

647
00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:03,480
facts and they come across all this strange phenomenon and

648
00:37:03,519 --> 00:37:07,559
they can't explain it, and they try everything, all these

649
00:37:07,639 --> 00:37:10,920
different experiments. But yet when you get a ball of

650
00:37:11,039 --> 00:37:15,199
light the UAPs that they call them, ball of light

651
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,960
flying over the Mesa, dives into the Mesa, disappears, and

652
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,480
then a few moments later appears out of the Mesa

653
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,719
from a different angle but along the same flight trajectory.

654
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,440
It's something is moving through solid matter. And the fact

655
00:37:30,519 --> 00:37:33,800
that in the later seasons there seems to be some

656
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:39,480
kind of energy force field dome above the one section

657
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:44,880
of the ranch that they're able to measure, but yet

658
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,079
they have no idea what it is.

659
00:37:47,159 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean things like the helicopters being acting as

660
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,519
if there's object underneath them. Yes, once or twice it

661
00:37:54,519 --> 00:37:56,880
could be the problem with helicopter, but it's repeatedly, and

662
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,440
it's picking up readings of things up shouldn't be there,

663
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,719
that are not there. But yeah, it's really so there's

664
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,920
something present and obvious. You've seen the one with the

665
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,679
multiple drone flights. These drones that behave perfectly normally in

666
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,679
everyone's circumstance. There certain levels arise at the start moving

667
00:38:11,679 --> 00:38:15,760
apart and acting, the strange laser beams being cut in

668
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,960
the air, blocked off. It doesn't happen or diffracted by something.

669
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,000
It just doesn't happen in normal science, normal normal physics.

670
00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:26,119
These things are clearly occurring, and it is a fascinating program,

671
00:38:26,159 --> 00:38:28,719
and say it is TV take a picture Salt, but

672
00:38:29,679 --> 00:38:33,400
it seems as they are discovering something very strange going

673
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,199
on there and of course, the office thing is if

674
00:38:35,199 --> 00:38:38,079
it's in one place, skin one other parts of the world,

675
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,320
and the other places are strangely active like this as well,

676
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,280
they have to be there.

677
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 1: There was a friend of mine that owned a small

678
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,599
ranch in the south of Phoenix. Sat in the southwest

679
00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:58,800
of Phoenix, Arizona Colored Stardust Ranch. Yes, yes, yeah, I

680
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,000
used to know the owner. Unfortunately he died a few

681
00:39:03,079 --> 00:39:07,639
years ago and somebody bought the ranch and nobody can

682
00:39:07,679 --> 00:39:11,400
figure out who it is, which is kindish, which is

683
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,679
kind of shady to begin with, especially all of the

684
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:21,199
intents rather negative activity that happened in that area. And

685
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,559
again it makes you wonder, is it something in the

686
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:29,159
ground or is it something where certain energies lay lines

687
00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:35,880
or portals, something that are in this area that is

688
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:42,440
allowing these entities these sometimes they look like aliens, but

689
00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:47,840
I'm not quite convinced they're aliens. It's a lot of

690
00:39:48,639 --> 00:39:52,400
really wild stuff. I know one Ghost Adventures of all

691
00:39:53,119 --> 00:39:55,840
TV shows went there and did an investigation and they

692
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:01,719
had some interesting activity happening while they were there. But

693
00:40:02,039 --> 00:40:07,320
there's these hotspots all over the planet. I investigated a

694
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:12,880
cave system in Colorado many years ago and They let

695
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:17,119
us go all the way back in where rarely they'd

696
00:40:17,199 --> 00:40:21,000
rarely take tours. This big open chamber. It's about two

697
00:40:21,079 --> 00:40:23,880
hundred and fifty feet underground, one thousand feet from the

698
00:40:24,039 --> 00:40:27,920
portal to get in. You're in the middle of a mountain.

699
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,320
And I had devices that were picking up strange music.

700
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:39,280
We were hearing voices catching EVP. Nobody ever died in there.

701
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,320
The Native Americans never went in there, especially not back

702
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,039
that far. And it's a sterile part of the cave.

703
00:40:45,159 --> 00:40:50,800
There's no life. I got little lights appearing in cracks

704
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:55,960
in the rocks. They weren't reflection. It was all limestone.

705
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:01,039
Weird growls we heard. We recorded the voice telling us

706
00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:06,400
to get out, And that makes me look into it

707
00:41:06,599 --> 00:41:11,199
deeper because nobody died in there, so what is in there?

708
00:41:12,039 --> 00:41:16,119
And then you start thinking about the folk tales of

709
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,119
let's say, the Welsh miners and the Tommy Knockers, that

710
00:41:20,199 --> 00:41:24,119
they encountered people in minds, people in caves, things that

711
00:41:24,199 --> 00:41:30,440
seemed to exist under the ground. Yes, and so I

712
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,360
feel we were dealing with was not human.

713
00:41:33,559 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember another place that I've been

714
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,559
to again. We went back recently. Nasty that have been

715
00:41:40,599 --> 00:41:43,000
in the past, which is the health Fire Caves over

716
00:41:43,039 --> 00:41:47,199
here in Highway. Yes, the man made that we actually

717
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,400
dug out, but they were used by the Health Fire Club.

718
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,559
Now health Fire Club is interesting because it has the

719
00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:55,320
reputation of being in solid darkness and stuff. But they

720
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,440
were kind of just a lot of very rich people

721
00:41:57,519 --> 00:42:04,000
get him having a very good time. Yes, yes we

722
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:06,679
may have carried out some rituals, but there were like

723
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,280
a mockery of richual There weren't genuine serious richal work.

724
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,760
But of course you might be mimicking something more serious

725
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,239
and you're raising energy levels by this. All this party

726
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,199
and four five times investigations there and there's always been

727
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,000
odd noises and stuff things have occurred. But there was

728
00:42:24,039 --> 00:42:26,480
one particular litigation we had there against us back in

729
00:42:26,519 --> 00:42:29,719
nearly two thousands where we had a group of twenty

730
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,199
five people with us and by the end of the

731
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,719
night we had about five of us five them death

732
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,360
had been spooked by it. We had. The most striking

733
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,960
thing was the noises we heard. It was where do

734
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,719
you reckon describe? It is like having someone moving heavy

735
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,719
furniture around in the next room, except there's no furniture

736
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,360
down there. A series of chambers, but there's no furnitures, no,

737
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,679
there's nothing Phizzy could have made those noises. Yet we

738
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,119
all heard them. And at one point in one part,

739
00:42:59,199 --> 00:43:02,920
in a corridor again in the dark, a mist appeared

740
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,039
about knee level and down just appeared from nowhere and

741
00:43:07,079 --> 00:43:09,760
within two or three minutes had gone again. But it

742
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,239
was certainly there. But people felt sick, felt dizzy. I

743
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,599
had to y carrober woman out and it's quite a track.

744
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,280
The carries put woman out of the whole bloody came network.

745
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,519
So it was and it was seasoned people there. They've

746
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:23,639
been lots of investigations with us, so they just couldn't

747
00:43:23,679 --> 00:43:26,000
hand it. They felt sick, they felt rough, they felt tired,

748
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:31,840
I mean really tired, emotionally tired, sleep and so were

749
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,920
obviously being very negatively affected by this network. It was amazing.

750
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,760
But one of the things that really stood out was

751
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,119
one of the people in the group had the back detector,

752
00:43:40,599 --> 00:43:42,920
which there are bats that lived in a cave and

753
00:43:44,519 --> 00:43:47,119
noise as went past. When we got down to the

754
00:43:47,159 --> 00:43:49,840
inner sanct and the very deepest, which is a good

755
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:54,119
three four hundred feet underground both vertically and into about

756
00:43:54,119 --> 00:43:57,960
half a mile, it started making a whining noise, and

757
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,760
it was almost like it was singing cordinate up down.

758
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:04,320
It's what on earth is that?

759
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 1: He said.

760
00:44:05,559 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 2: The only thing that can make that kind of noise

761
00:44:08,119 --> 00:44:12,159
is very heavy machinery vibrating at very very high frequency,

762
00:44:12,159 --> 00:44:15,920
I mean, very high ultra sonic frequencies. Nothing else can

763
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,920
jy that. But there's nothing down here that could possibly

764
00:44:20,039 --> 00:44:23,199
be created that sound. So this device isn't faulty. It's

765
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,679
perfectly work perfectly by the rest of the evening, checking

766
00:44:25,679 --> 00:44:28,079
before it came out, batteries are fine. And when we

767
00:44:28,199 --> 00:44:29,880
left you in a sanctum, we went back to normal

768
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,719
odd click as that went past. But just in that

769
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,800
inner sanctum, it was this bizarre noise. It was making it.

770
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,320
So the only thing he knew would create that noise

771
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,800
is heavy machinery at very high frequency. That was just

772
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,400
a complete mystery. So there was clearly something down there,

773
00:44:46,639 --> 00:44:50,079
energy waves of some kind of literal waves that was

774
00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:52,480
picking up on what they were, where they came from.

775
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:53,760
No one knows.

776
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: Well, I've heard other stories, I mean, with people getting

777
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:03,519
sick in these situations. It's similar to other totally unrelated

778
00:45:03,599 --> 00:45:10,360
type of phenomenon, but it's like whatever energy is there

779
00:45:10,559 --> 00:45:14,000
or vibrations that it's causing. I know people can be

780
00:45:14,039 --> 00:45:19,320
affected by high levels of EMF electromagnetic fields. They can

781
00:45:20,199 --> 00:45:24,880
also be affected by infrasound, and I know in a

782
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:30,559
lot of cryptid cases over here, especially dealing with sasquatch bigfoot,

783
00:45:30,639 --> 00:45:34,559
where people will get this disoriented and sick and whatnot,

784
00:45:34,679 --> 00:45:41,639
and they researchers of theories that it's able to use infrasound,

785
00:45:41,679 --> 00:45:45,320
which we can't audibly hear, but it affects the body

786
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,960
and can cause the sickness, the feelings of being watched,

787
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:54,760
the tiredness. So it wouldn't surprise me if something in

788
00:45:54,840 --> 00:46:00,239
there is using some form of either you know, for

789
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:05,519
sound or other types of manipulated energy to try to

790
00:46:05,519 --> 00:46:08,639
get people to leave because it doesn't want you there.

791
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 2: Well, interestingly, also on the same investigation and last different

792
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,280
last year. One thing I'm quite good at is I

793
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,440
can it's kind of channel things, I suppose the best

794
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,519
way to put it. I can sense that there's someone

795
00:46:22,639 --> 00:46:25,400
or something around and if they're speaking, now don't be

796
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,199
speaking to me, but just the communicate. I usually just

797
00:46:28,679 --> 00:46:31,559
say back what is being said. And I was in

798
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:35,000
one cave and the people thereby were asking christ and

799
00:46:35,039 --> 00:46:37,719
Luigi board and I was given the answers before they

800
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:39,360
put on the board. It was actually, I can hear

801
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,159
this person saying these things, and then the board would

802
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,840
give the same answer. Now the several people around the boards,

803
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,119
it wasn't that one person's pushing around making up make

804
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,079
just repeat what I was saying. It was literally I

805
00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:50,480
could hear this man was talking. He wasn't very happy

806
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,480
about us being there, and something had happened to someone

807
00:46:53,599 --> 00:46:57,960
down there. I think young women have been taken down

808
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,199
and had they had had fun with Shelby saying, and

809
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,599
they'd been obviously let go of afterwards and the pressure

810
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:06,800
had been paid. It was not that were just sort

811
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,800
of abducted and taking now they we weren't very happy

812
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,639
with it, or some of the members weren't very happy

813
00:47:10,679 --> 00:47:13,360
what was going on, and this person was relaying some

814
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:14,119
of that back.

815
00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: Say.

816
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 2: The weird thing was they were saying things to me

817
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:19,880
and I was repeating, and it was appearing on the

818
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,559
board as I was as I was saying. So there

819
00:47:22,599 --> 00:47:27,320
was something was definitely present and communicating and was unhappy,

820
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,119
so that it could account for some of the stranger

821
00:47:30,199 --> 00:47:33,239
things you were having because it was unpleasant things going on.

822
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:38,480
It was creating negative energy around us. Quite possibly, I've been.

823
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 1: In paranormal investigations where I felt whatever was there was

824
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,519
trying to get me to leave and was focusing its

825
00:47:48,679 --> 00:47:51,639
energy on me, and I was having what I can

826
00:47:51,679 --> 00:47:55,400
only describe as a as an anxiety attack. My heart

827
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,280
was racing, I almost felt like it was palpitating. I

828
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,559
just felt totally anxious and I would have to leave

829
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,159
the first time it happened to me, I was in

830
00:48:06,199 --> 00:48:10,400
a house. It hit when I was upstairs and I

831
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,599
had to leave and go outside, and the second I

832
00:48:12,639 --> 00:48:15,880
stepped outside, I was fine. So then I came back

833
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,320
in and it hit me again. But by that point

834
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,679
I knew what was going on and I wouldn't let

835
00:48:21,679 --> 00:48:24,800
it get to me. So a lot of people, and

836
00:48:25,039 --> 00:48:27,800
you see these TV shows, they start feeling something and

837
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,119
they're screaming and they're running out and doing everything you're

838
00:48:31,159 --> 00:48:35,480
not supposed to do. But I've had that happen a

839
00:48:35,519 --> 00:48:38,880
few times, where something obviously didn't want me there and

840
00:48:39,199 --> 00:48:43,519
was using what methods it could energy wise to push

841
00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:44,800
me out and get me to leave.

842
00:48:46,159 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 2: I think, as you said about about em fields here,

843
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:53,639
they're generating a field which is then interacting with us uncomfortably.

844
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,199
No you know, our bodies vibrate our hot particular uses

845
00:48:57,199 --> 00:48:59,159
of the em field of its own. It's about twenty

846
00:48:59,199 --> 00:49:03,079
feet wide, big lower frequency when it is quite big,

847
00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:05,519
and anything interacts with it. This is a theory, but

848
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,800
anything gets within that field and affects the field, you

849
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,199
feel it. You have a body body reaction, and the

850
00:49:12,199 --> 00:49:15,519
way our brains are wired is that any kind of

851
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,199
adverse body reaction will cause a panic because it's causing

852
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,000
it's making us want to get away from every It

853
00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:25,079
triggers the fight or flight. You get a sense of

854
00:49:25,119 --> 00:49:26,719
something it's not safe or uncomforty, you want to get

855
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,599
out there. It's a biological evolutionary from the threat of

856
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,800
wild animals attacking that supporse, you get sense as a

857
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,079
noise nearby that could be a potential threat. So we

858
00:49:35,079 --> 00:49:37,840
need the energy to run off or fight it off.

859
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,440
But there could be things ways of energy that trigger

860
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,760
off the fight off right response. The anxiety you mentioned

861
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:48,239
because it's it's disrupting our own em field that we generate,

862
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:49,719
so we have a reaction to that. I mean, it's

863
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,039
it's partly scientific stuff. You talk about the defect of

864
00:49:53,079 --> 00:49:55,719
infrastut it's along those similar line. But if it will

865
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,719
be possible that whatever you're dealing with or interacting with

866
00:49:59,079 --> 00:50:04,280
is creating a adverse rhythmic like that you probably then

867
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,239
picked up on fels uncomfortable get away from.

868
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:11,559
Speaker 1: Well, when you mentioned that the body produces this electromagnetic

869
00:50:11,639 --> 00:50:15,599
field around itself or this energy field around itself, could

870
00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:19,880
that be considered a person's aura, you.

871
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 2: Could look at it in that respect. Yeah, it's possible

872
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,880
that you would have an effect upon light because it's

873
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,079
all part of the same spectrum of fuel of energy anyways,

874
00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:30,519
So yeah, very possibly that's what people then pick up

875
00:50:30,519 --> 00:50:34,159
on have a vision of tour oras as big color

876
00:50:34,159 --> 00:50:37,239
as they can see, but others too, That being a feeling,

877
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,960
an impression of getting from that person is then interpret

878
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,519
as a color, but it's a way of explaining the

879
00:50:42,559 --> 00:50:43,719
feeling they're picking up on you.

880
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 1: Okay, over here in the States, I don't know how

881
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:53,559
it is. There. There's a lot of people, mostly women,

882
00:50:53,599 --> 00:50:59,719
who are really into what they consider Wicca witchcraft, and

883
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,159
a lot lot of it. I think that the people

884
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,760
are playing around with something that they don't really fully understand.

885
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,079
I mean, I know there are some people I've met

886
00:51:10,119 --> 00:51:13,719
who are witches who have been into it for years

887
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,320
and they have a better understanding of it. But a

888
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:21,719
lot of especially younger people, will read some books or

889
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:25,960
watch some programs or whatever, and then they start doing

890
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:31,119
these rituals, which it's like somebody who's never used a

891
00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:34,639
wigi board before using it. Not a good idea if

892
00:51:34,679 --> 00:51:39,920
you don't know how to control the session and close it,

893
00:51:40,519 --> 00:51:44,320
which is the one thing that's very important. People when

894
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:48,639
they start messing around with these energies, they don't know

895
00:51:48,639 --> 00:51:53,079
how to shut it down, close it off, and protect themselves.

896
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,880
And it's like the people who use a wigi board,

897
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,360
who play with it, they get scared and they just

898
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,440
walk away. It's like you open your front door and

899
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,559
left it wide open. There's somebody bad there you don't like,

900
00:52:06,639 --> 00:52:08,599
but you just walk away and leave the door open.

901
00:52:08,639 --> 00:52:11,760
They just walk right on through and can cause all

902
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:12,480
sorts of trouble.

903
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think it's interesting because one thing I would

904
00:52:17,119 --> 00:52:21,079
different between wicker and witchcraft. Wick has become a religion.

905
00:52:21,559 --> 00:52:24,960
M it tends to be. I mean, it's literally referred

906
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:26,519
to a religion in this country now because enough people

907
00:52:26,519 --> 00:52:28,679
say they adhere to it that evented on the last

908
00:52:28,679 --> 00:52:31,559
centsus as being an actual religion. It's the only religion

909
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:36,480
given the world, and it is being followed a little

910
00:52:36,519 --> 00:52:38,920
dogmatically by some people that this is the only way

911
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,039
of doing things that can way of magic, if you like,

912
00:52:42,159 --> 00:52:44,880
is the only way that they can do, which again

913
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,400
isn't quite true. I mean, Gerald's God created it with

914
00:52:48,599 --> 00:52:50,440
I mean they said it's part of a conveinent, but

915
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,119
there's not a lot of real evidence for that company

916
00:52:52,119 --> 00:52:55,559
actually existing much. I think he's his own early expensive

917
00:52:55,559 --> 00:52:59,679
I think that the Golden Door smaller group and SyncE

918
00:52:59,679 --> 00:53:02,880
the side. Out of that the Wicked movement is created.

919
00:53:03,519 --> 00:53:06,559
I mean, it's a gateway Druckeg like into the occult

920
00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:10,440
people experience in Wicker if you stick stick to strictly

921
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:13,360
is in the Wick and code, except it's very safe stuff.

922
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,320
It's very kind of well, basic level stuff. But if

923
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,199
you want to go further and deep along that kind

924
00:53:19,199 --> 00:53:21,039
of lines or currency we tend to call it, then

925
00:53:21,079 --> 00:53:25,159
you go into modernition witchcraft, which is much broader and

926
00:53:25,559 --> 00:53:29,159
has a better historical basis in the sense it's traditional

927
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,599
practices that are recording in books like the one I

928
00:53:31,639 --> 00:53:34,199
wrote about the each Older Came, which is a collection

929
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:38,599
of spells to the Victorian age, there's no organized witchcraft.

930
00:53:38,679 --> 00:53:41,280
There's no witch covens like that in the Victorian times

931
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,440
and earlier that that's a myth. That was something that.

932
00:53:44,199 --> 00:53:48,159
Speaker 3: Market professor Market Murray created in her book which she

933
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:54,159
wrote nineteen ten. But the witch culture Western Europe, which

934
00:53:54,199 --> 00:53:57,000
suggested there was a long lineage of witch cults, activity

935
00:53:57,039 --> 00:54:00,639
in covens and it's nonsense, is there's no relevance at all.

936
00:54:01,079 --> 00:54:04,039
But individual practitioners and witchcraft have been around for centuries.

937
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:06,000
They terms about the wide woman of the village.

938
00:54:06,119 --> 00:54:10,559
Speaker 2: And the stuff they use is more real if you like,

939
00:54:10,639 --> 00:54:15,119
it's not synthesized. The wicked stuff is not you know,

940
00:54:16,159 --> 00:54:17,840
I'm trying to avoid the word made up, but you

941
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:19,760
you know what I'm saying. It's been put together by

942
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,599
the bits of business more than initial herbal magic that's

943
00:54:22,599 --> 00:54:25,320
been around for centuries, and that if you don't know

944
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,960
what you're doing with that, you can walk a dangerous

945
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,199
path because it is stuff that is working with real

946
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,599
energies that you could not necessarily understand how to control,

947
00:54:34,679 --> 00:54:36,760
how to work with. I mean, the reagion all is

948
00:54:37,119 --> 00:54:40,679
an interesting point case in point because it's again that's

949
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,000
interpretation because of course, before the Exorcist movie, which you

950
00:54:44,079 --> 00:54:46,559
always seen as not particularly dangerous. In fact, you could

951
00:54:46,599 --> 00:54:49,840
buy it as a kid's toy. It was. It's the

952
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,519
view of it was changed by the Exorcis. It may

953
00:54:52,639 --> 00:54:56,760
appear to be much more dangerous. But it's now in

954
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,679
the public psyche, the public consciousness. That is a way

955
00:54:59,679 --> 00:55:03,760
of open doors too, darker energy. So of course it

956
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:07,039
becomes possibly of these things. As we're saying earlier, perform

957
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,400
accordance of your belief system. If you think you work

958
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,239
with dark system stuff through regional then that's what we're

959
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:15,199
going to experience. These things are going to manifest in

960
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,000
those forms. And if you aren't doing it safely, I

961
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,760
mean we also have a license to depart. In magic,

962
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,599
the idea of dispelling the energy that's built around you.

963
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,679
It is important to do that because it will as

964
00:55:27,679 --> 00:55:29,280
you say, the cause of property in the front door.

965
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:30,800
If it's like you're setting a fire to something and

966
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:32,599
then's leaving the fire to burn by itself, and then

967
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:36,039
rug ouseburn's because you left the fire burning by itself.

968
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,000
You need to power it down. If you are a

969
00:55:40,039 --> 00:55:41,840
scientific term. You want to try and bring the energy

970
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,519
levels back down to sort of safe and normal, and

971
00:55:44,559 --> 00:55:46,559
if you don't do that, you're going to experience something

972
00:55:46,599 --> 00:55:50,519
happening to you. Whether it's psychological because you've left it

973
00:55:50,559 --> 00:55:52,719
open and you've left your mind open, or it's something

974
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,480
more powerful. You could argue, but there is an effect.

975
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,119
That's the thing. The cause is one thing. The effect

976
00:55:59,159 --> 00:56:03,079
that you're experiencing post working and not post things download

977
00:56:03,119 --> 00:56:06,440
yourself down properly is real. You do experience stuff that

978
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,159
you don't particularly want to experience.

979
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: Very true. But we're coming up on the end here. Now.

980
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,559
Do you have any projects or anything that's coming up

981
00:56:17,599 --> 00:56:19,000
that you want to promote.

982
00:56:20,199 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 2: I would like to just mention that as I do,

983
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,239
my shows up a run Ninth Circle Press publishing company

984
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:29,760
that publishes esoterical occult books. My last title sold out

985
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,800
in forty eight hours, which is rather pleaser and pretty

986
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:34,679
far too if you are going to be doing a

987
00:56:34,679 --> 00:56:37,119
secondition of that later on. That was an ancient Greek

988
00:56:37,159 --> 00:56:40,039
magic and I'm currently working at the book based around

989
00:56:40,039 --> 00:56:43,679
a manuscript from the Victorian Age written by Chuckel Frederick Hockley,

990
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:47,599
which I transcribing from is rather beautiful but not pretty

991
00:56:47,639 --> 00:56:50,320
easy to read handwriting into modern English, which I should

992
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,360
be publishing the next month or so. That's the next

993
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:59,679
one I shall be releasing. Yeah, Ace, I'm writing on Bubbysha.

994
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,079
Speaker 1: Well, Andy, thank you so much for coming on. It's

995
00:57:02,119 --> 00:57:04,920
been awesome talking to you, and it's been way too long,

996
00:57:05,559 --> 00:57:10,360
so we're going to have to do this again, definitely. Okay, Oh,

997
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,199
thank you again and talk to you sin. And that

998
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,920
was Andy Mercer. He was an expert in the Occult

999
00:57:18,039 --> 00:57:21,519
and is also the station manager here at the Paranormal

1000
00:57:21,599 --> 00:57:24,440
UK Radio Network and is involved with a few of

1001
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:28,679
our other shows as well. Andy again is a longtime

1002
00:57:28,719 --> 00:57:31,400
friend and is really great to talk to him one

1003
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:35,880
on one again like this, so we'd already discussed we're

1004
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:37,639
going to have him back in the future. We're going

1005
00:57:37,679 --> 00:57:40,239
to nail down the topic of what we want to

1006
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,639
talk about, because we did a very broad discussion tonight,

1007
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:47,519
so we'll pick something and go more in depth next time.

1008
00:57:48,159 --> 00:57:52,320
So until next week, you all have a great week

1009
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:56,760
and upcoming weekend spring is on the way, and be

1010
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:58,480
good humans. We'll catch you later.