WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:03.560 In this episode, we talk about former Bangladesh Prime Minister 2 00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:07.519 Shehai Casina, who conducted her first virtual media interaction since 3 00:00:07.559 --> 00:00:10.599 her auster and said that she will return to her country. 4 00:00:11.039 --> 00:00:13.519 We also talk about the Cast census and how cast 5 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:16.879 data will be recorded in an open ended manner instead 6 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:19.280 of having a pre defined list to choose from. 7 00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:21.600 But first we talk about. 8 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:25.160 An Indian Express investigation into a new government fund meant 9 00:00:25.239 --> 00:00:32.640 to support India's deep tech ambitions. Hi, I am Aherikan 10 00:00:32.679 --> 00:00:35.079 Nanda and you are listening to three things the in 11 00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:42.200 an Express news show. It was last year that the 12 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:45.200 government set up a fund to provide financial support to 13 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:48.640 companies and startups working on cutting edge research in critical 14 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:54.320 technology areas such as AI, semiconductors, quantum technology, robotics, healthcare 15 00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:59.000 and even defense. This was the Research Development and Innovation Fund. Now, 16 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:01.840 the government has introduce used funds and schemes for similar 17 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:04.640 purposes in the past as well. But what stood out 18 00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:07.920 about the RDI fund was the size of its corpus. 19 00:01:08.840 --> 00:01:13.079 It created a corpus of rupees one lack corore and 20 00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:18.200 its focus was these deep tech companies, the companies that 21 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:24.040 were engaged in research and development in these deep tech areas. 22 00:01:24.840 --> 00:01:28.400 That's the intet expresses Amitapsinha, who writes on science and 23 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:31.120 tech for the paper, and he says a fund like 24 00:01:31.159 --> 00:01:34.400 this is particularly important for the sector because it is 25 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:35.640 inherently high risk. 26 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:41.079 These companies are trying to create technologies for the future 27 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:45.079 and there are very high chances of failure, because of 28 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:49.120 which these companies often find it very difficult to raise 29 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:53.680 money from the markets in a normal manner. Because our 30 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:58.120 venture capital ecosystem is not that mature, it's still very 31 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:03.040 risk overs and therefore these companies often find it very 32 00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:05.439 difficult to raise resources. 33 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:08.360 And so this is why the government stepped in and 34 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:11.360 decided to provide low cost loans to these companies for 35 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:14.159 an extended period of time. And in its first round, 36 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:17.759 the RDI Fund approved almost twenty two hundred corore in 37 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:21.800 soft loans to twenty two private companies. But our investigation 38 00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:25.120 by the Indien Expresses found that fifteen of these twenty 39 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:28.599 two companies have investment links to seven members of the 40 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:33.120 fund's selection committee. In fact, together these firms received about 41 00:02:33.159 --> 00:02:36.479 sixty two percent of the total amount cleared. So to 42 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:40.560 understand what exactly did the investigation find and what safeguards 43 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:43.800 are needed when public money is routed through panels made 44 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:47.240 up for private sector experts. My colleague Shasharma talks to 45 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:51.560 The Indien Express's Amitabsina, who led this investigation for the paper. 46 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:55.719 With the at a glance, this investigation is about the 47 00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:59.319 links between the people deciding where this public money goes 48 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:03.360 and the companies that ultimately received it. So could you 49 00:03:03.400 --> 00:03:05.680 help us understand what the investigation found. 50 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:06.520 Yes. 51 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:10.039 So, the first round of funding from the RDI fund 52 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:14.439 was recently completed thirtieth of April, and in that round, 53 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:19.080 twenty two companies were selected for funding and loans worth 54 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:23.240 a total of about twenty two hundred corores were finalized 55 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:26.599 across all these companies. Now, the selected companies are all 56 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:30.400 quite credible. A lot of them have actually already made 57 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:33.199 a name for themselves. Several of them are pretty well 58 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:36.759 known from this space sector, from healthcare, from in the 59 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:40.360 quantum technologies sector. But there was a red flag, and 60 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:44.360 the red flag was that fifteen of these twenty two 61 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:48.479 selected companies were those in which one or more selection 62 00:03:48.639 --> 00:03:54.400 committee members had financial stakes. Now this selection committee members 63 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:58.240 are from the private sector themselves, so theyre all are 64 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:03.280 quite repute. And some of them recognizable names from the 65 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:06.319 private sector. In fact, most of them are from the 66 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:12.800 same technology ecosystem from which the startup applicants also come right. So, 67 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:16.759 and this was done deliberately. It was thought that people 68 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:21.399 who know that ecosystem would be the best to choose 69 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:25.680 their right kind of companies. So it was deliberately done. 70 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:29.399 But what happened was that this led to a sort 71 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:32.439 of a conflict of interest kind of situation. 72 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:36.759 And so did this system anticipate these kinds of conflicts? 73 00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:41.560 Yes, this kind of situation was very well foreseen, and 74 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:44.879 there were rules to deal with no conflict of interest, 75 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:48.079 and following those rules, in fact, the members, all those 76 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.680 members who had a conflict of interest, they declared that 77 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:57.160 interest and recused themselves from the evaluation process of these companies. So, 78 00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:01.000 to be fair, there was no wrongdoing that happened in 79 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:04.519 this round, but there was still a red flag. There 80 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:07.959 was still question marks because the problem was if so 81 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:12.000 many companies, if fifteen of twenty two selected companies and 82 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:15.600 that's almost like seventy percent of the companies had links 83 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:20.319 with the selection committee members, you know, that can possibly have, 84 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:25.079 you know, lead to a situation when people start doubting 85 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:29.000 the process itself or that can create doubts in the system. 86 00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:32.000 So especially no, if you imagine companies that did not 87 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:35.279 get selected, for example, now there is a possibility that 88 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:38.199 they begin suspecting that they did not make it, mainly 89 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:40.920 because they did not have anyone in the selection panel. 90 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:44.519 So again not saying that this happened, but there is 91 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:50.120 sort of a systemic vulnerability which the investigation was trying 92 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:55.079 to highlight that optically this did not seem right and. 93 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:58.480 Amob as you mentioned earlier, that it isn't that these 94 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:03.680 companies were necessarily undeserving or that the panel members manipulated 95 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:07.680 the process. So when we talk about a conflict of 96 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:10.560 interest in this case, what exactly do we mean? 97 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:14.839 Right, So, as we discussed, the companies that have been 98 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:18.560 selected are quite credible, some of them well known as well. 99 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:23.000 Also the people in this selection panel, they are pretty 100 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:26.160 well known people. So you know, this matter actually came 101 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:28.839 up in the Raja Saba also for discussion and it 102 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:32.560 was brought in the Raja Saba by Congress MP Praveen 103 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:37.040 Chakaworthy and even Praveen Chakroworthy when we were talking to him, 104 00:06:37.079 --> 00:06:41.120 he said, you know, he's absolutely casting no aspersions on 105 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:45.879 any individual or any company. There was nothing that has 106 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:48.319 happened in the first round of funding which can be 107 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:52.160 described as wrongdoing. What he was highlighting and what the 108 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:57.079 purpose of the investigation also was pointed to a systemic 109 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:02.959 vulnerability and to explore with you know, additional safeguards were 110 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.600 required to be put in place because we are dealing 111 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:10.319 with public money. A large amount of public money is 112 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:15.600 at stake. And although you know, mandatory recusal transparency is 113 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:19.319 the standard practice in conflict of interest kind of situations, 114 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:23.360 and that is also is very well addressed here. But 115 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:27.639 because this is about public money, should there be extra 116 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:30.199 guard rails that need to be put in place. So 117 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:33.879 that is the where the debate is that, you know, 118 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:37.240 should we have more safeguards when we are dealing with 119 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:40.480 public money because this conflict of interest kind of situations 120 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:43.279 they arise. You know, they are pretty common in the 121 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:46.480 corporate world as well, and that's the standard practice to 122 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:49.959 deal with them is to recuse yourself from the decision 123 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:53.000 making process. But here we are dealing with public money, 124 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:55.120 and that's the debate all about. 125 00:07:55.800 --> 00:08:00.000 Right, the rules require members to mandatorily recuse themselves from 126 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:04.319 the entire process of evaluation of companies in which they 127 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:08.600 or their immediate families or their funds have any interest in. 128 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:11.120 And you know, this brings us to an obvious dilemma. 129 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:14.720 I heard. So, if you want the country's best deep 130 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:20.279 tech investors or entrepreneurs deciding which technologies to fund, aren't 131 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:24.959 those same people almost inevitably going to have connections across 132 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:29.800 this ecosystem because India's deep tech ecosystem remains relatively small. 133 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:34.240 Yes, exactly. So that's the argument that is being given 134 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:38.679 the fact that if you want the best people to 135 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:42.639 select these companies, and the best people are part of 136 00:08:42.679 --> 00:08:45.799 that same ecosystem, they have known that ecosystem for a 137 00:08:45.879 --> 00:08:48.960 very long time, they have been part of it, they 138 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:52.279 have backed these companies, they have invested in these companies, 139 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:56.559 so they know these companies very well. And you have 140 00:08:56.840 --> 00:09:00.480 picked these people to select the company. So obviously these 141 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:04.200 people would have connections in that ecosystem, they would know 142 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:07.279 these companies, and they would have financial interest in these companies. 143 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:11.759 So the precise reason for which you picked them to 144 00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:15.879 be part of this election panel would lead to this 145 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:19.799 kind of conflict of interest situation. So, because this was 146 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:22.600 inevitable and a lot of members. We spoke to all 147 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:25.919 these people concerned, and we've also spoken to the government 148 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:30.080 officials everyone who was concerned with this process, and all 149 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.720 of them said that this kind of situation was no 150 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.320 anticipated and it was very well foreseen that such a 151 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.240 situation would arise, and that's why conflict of interest rules 152 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:45.600 were the first rules that were drafted when they were creating, 153 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:49.000 you know, this process. So it was very well anticipated, 154 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:52.120 and you know, the member said, we knew that such 155 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:54.960 a thing would happen, and therefore we have taken care 156 00:09:55.159 --> 00:09:58.799 to ensure that there is transparency and there are very 157 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:04.000 strict rules, you know, recusing yourself and disclosing your interests 158 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:05.679 and so amitov. 159 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:11.399 If disclosure and ricusal aren't considered sufficient, what would a 160 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:15.159 stronger system actually look like without stripping the Committee of 161 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:17.399 the industry expertise it needs. 162 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:22.120 Now, after the investigation came out, you know, the government 163 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:26.600 also reacted very swiftly, and then they tried to explain 164 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:32.440 why some additional safeguards were already in place, and then 165 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:35.919 they said, look, we select the companies with a super majority. 166 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:39.799 Super majority meaning you know, at least two thirds majority 167 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:42.840 of the selection committee members. So only if two thirds 168 00:10:42.879 --> 00:10:46.159 majority agrees, then only a company is selected. So even 169 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:49.320 if two or three people have doubts about a company, 170 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:52.559 and these doubts can be about anything, these doubts can 171 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:56.200 be about, you know, the financial interests of other members 172 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:59.240 of the committee, then the company is not chosen. They 173 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:02.600 also spoke about the fact that, you know, if any 174 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:05.840 of these Selection Committee members, if they own a company, 175 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:09.519 or they operate a company, or if they have substantial 176 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:12.080 you know, stake in a company, those companies are not 177 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:15.320 even eligible to become an applicant. Similarly, if they have 178 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:19.039 any operational role in a company, then that company would 179 00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:22.000 not be eligible. In fact, you know, the second round 180 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:25.799 of funding has now been finalized, and yesterday we came 181 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:28.360 to know and we put out a story today in 182 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:31.919 the newspaper that in the second round of funding, thirteen 183 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:37.000 companies have been recommended for getting loans from our DII fund, 184 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:40.600 and only one of them has is such that it 185 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:43.759 has financial links with one of the Selection Committee members. 186 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:47.200 As we go forward, you know, the list of companies 187 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:51.840 which get selected will make it clear how transparent and 188 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:55.840 how trustworthy this process is. But as of now, the 189 00:11:55.879 --> 00:11:59.759 investigation did the job of just pointing a red flag 190 00:11:59.879 --> 00:12:03.600 on a systemic vulnerability, so that you know people there 191 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:08.480 and people outside also become aware of what is happening 192 00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:12.320 with a very important fund, with a flagship initiative of 193 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:16.080 the government. People become aware and the people within the 194 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:20.080 system also realize that there is scrutiny, that somebody is 195 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:25.120 looking over them and therefore everything functions as per proper 196 00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:26.320 laid down norms. 197 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:34.120 And next we shift our focus to ousted Bangladesh Prime 198 00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:37.720 Minister Sheik Hasina, who last week held her first virtual 199 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:41.279 media interaction after feeling from the country two years ago. 200 00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:46.840 Today, I speak not only as someone who had the 201 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:50.159 honor of Serbi Banglades five times as a Prime minister, 202 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:55.440 but also as the daughter of the father of the Nationaman. 203 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:00.279 I speak as someone who has spare her life the 204 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:04.120 people of Bangladesh. I was forced away from my country, 205 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:10.360 but I was never separated from my paper before I speak. 206 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:14.000 In this interaction, which took place at the Foreign Correspondence 207 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:16.879 Club of South Asia in New Delhi, she talked about 208 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:19.600 her plans to return to her country, stand with its 209 00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:21.879 people and help improve their lives. 210 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:28.559 This was the first media interaction where outsted Bangladesh Prime 211 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:31.440 Minister shik Hasina, who's been living in India for the 212 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:36.080 last two years. She addressed the media and took questions. 213 00:13:36.759 --> 00:13:40.399 That's the Indian Express's diplomatic affairs editor, Shubuji Troi. 214 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:44.559 And she timed it with the fifth of August, the 215 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:48.519 day she kind of fled Bangladesh two years ago in 216 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:52.519 the face of protests and violent protests in her country 217 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:54.480 against her and her government. 218 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:58.519 So that was sort of important moment. 219 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:01.720 The fact that she chose to speak out and also 220 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:06.679 answer questions. Some questions, she also dodged some questions, But overall, 221 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:10.600 this interaction that took place at the Foreign Correspondence Club 222 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:14.720 of South Asia, I think that was a significant political 223 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:18.919 move from her, I mean considering that two years have 224 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:23.720 passed since she fled her home country, so that I 225 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:27.840 think was the most remarkable thing. And then obviously during 226 00:14:27.879 --> 00:14:32.519 their question answer also she and her son Saji was Joi, 227 00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:37.039 who had joined her from the US. She was an 228 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:42.240 audio mode, whereas her son Saji Joi who joined from 229 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:45.840 the US where he lives, and he was on video 230 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:49.159 mode as well. So that's how this particular interaction took 231 00:14:49.159 --> 00:14:51.080 place on fifth of August. 232 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:54.960 Now hasina stay in India has already had an impact 233 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:58.879 on relations between India and Bangladesh. Bangladesh had, in fact 234 00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:02.840 raised concerns about Hasina holding such a media interaction, while 235 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:05.759 India ahead of the event made it clear that it 236 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:08.360 was being organized by a private entity and that the 237 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:11.440 government had no role in it. But will this incident 238 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:14.440 further strange ties between the two countries and what is 239 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:18.200 the significance of Hassina's statements. To answer these questions, we 240 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:22.159 speak to Shubaji in this segment. Shubiji, why do you 241 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:25.960 think Hassina has held this media interaction Now? It's been 242 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:30.080 two years since she fled Bangladesh, So why was the 243 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:31.559 press conference conducted now? 244 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:35.600 So you know, last time she spoke was through a 245 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:40.399 video recorded message. A similar interaction at the same venue 246 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:44.559 at sec Forum Correspondence Club where an audio recorded message 247 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:48.200 was played out in January this year, just about a 248 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:52.360 month before the elections took place in Bangladesh, and at 249 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:54.440 that point in time, her pitch was that you know, 250 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:59.399 Awami League has been banned from contesting the polls and 251 00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:03.240 it should be now that the elections have taken place 252 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:07.799 without the participation of the Awami League which is her party, 253 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:11.279 and BNP which is led by Tarik Rahman who is 254 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:14.720 now the Prime Minister of Bangladesh, has taken charge and 255 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:16.679 a few months have rolled by. 256 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:20.279 I think she is now trying. 257 00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:25.919 To position herself and her party for contesting the elections 258 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:27.360 in the future next time. 259 00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:30.080 Whenever the elections take place. It's a five year. 260 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.200 Term that Tarik Rahman has, so still there is a 261 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.559 lot of time to come. But I think the fact 262 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:42.360 that the first few months has been challenging economically for 263 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:48.159 Bangladesh and the Bangladesh government has faced economic challenges because 264 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:51.799 of the rise in oil prices, gas prices in the 265 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:54.360 country because of the war in West Asia. So I 266 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:58.039 think she's trying to look at this as an opportune 267 00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:03.360 moment where she could to start her political campaign for 268 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:06.599 a comeback in the next set of elections that will 269 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:09.799 take place in Bangladesh about five years from now. 270 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:13.160 And during the event, she mentioned that she has plans 271 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:17.920 of returning to Bangladesh. So what significance does her statement hold. 272 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:22.200 Well, Nierika, she said that she plans to return to 273 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:25.200 her country and that is Bangladesh and stand with its 274 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:28.559 people and help improve their lives now you know. She 275 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:33.079 has said this once before in an interview to Reuters 276 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:36.400 in July this year last month, but this is the 277 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:38.799 first time she made it sort of in a much 278 00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:43.759 more public platform answering questions. When she was asked about 279 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:47.599 when does she plan to return, she indicated that December 280 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:50.960 is the month that she's looking at because December is, 281 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:53.519 as we all know is She said that it's a 282 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:56.680 vic month of victory, is a victory month for Bangladesh, 283 00:17:56.759 --> 00:18:01.839 essentially referencing and alluding to the nineteen seventy one War 284 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:05.279 of Liberation of Bangladesh, which is the India Pakistan War 285 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:09.640 as well, where on December sixteenth, Bangladesh was liberated. I 286 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:13.359 mean basically East Pakistan was liberated from West Pakistan and 287 00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:14.920 Bangladesh was formed. 288 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:19.319 So she indicated that as the timeline. 289 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:23.400 Whatever fate evers me, I will return to my people. 290 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:28.920 I cannot stay away while my Pilabit county men are suffering. 291 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:33.359 I know I may be detained, I may be sent 292 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:39.319 to pision, they may try to reinforce verts issue in 293 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:45.400 fabricated cases. But fear cannot decide my duty to the 294 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:47.519 people my life. 295 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:52.519 Now, obviously this has created quite a ripple in Bangladesh, 296 00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:55.319 and we have to see how this sort of plays 297 00:18:55.359 --> 00:19:00.359 out politically because she faces several charges. She faces death 298 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:06.240 sentence in Bangladesh for essentially ordering the shooting of the 299 00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:10.880 protesters and killing of protesters in Bangladesh. You know, according 300 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:15.119 to different estimates. I mean, the Bangladesh government's estimate says 301 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:18.880 eight hundred people were killed. Un estimate says fourteen hundred 302 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:21.839 people were killed, but it needless to say it's in 303 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:25.319 that range. So the large number of people were killed 304 00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:30.440 or they died during the protest. And so she faces 305 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.440 these grave charges. So we have to see how this 306 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:37.559 plays out, how her statement plays out in Bangladesh, and 307 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:42.480 whether she's actually able to return to Bangladesh. 308 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:44.319 And what kind of a reaction has Bangladesh had to 309 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:46.119 this media event and her statement. 310 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:50.200 So Hasina's statement was about twenty three minutes and then 311 00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:52.720 again I think fifteen twenty minutes of Q and A 312 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.480 was there. Well, she answered some of the questions and 313 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:59.839 she kind of said that she talked about Bangladesh's crisis 314 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.119 and political crisis and law and order situation and all 315 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:06.960 of that. So a statement has been rejected by the 316 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:08.000 Bangladesh government. 317 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:09.799 And manager government in fact. 318 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:14.519 Raised it issued a pretty strong statement saying that their outraged, 319 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:18.039 they deeply regret that in spite of concerns conveyed to 320 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:22.200 the Indian government and about the likely ramifications of this 321 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:24.200 media and traction, it was. 322 00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:25.039 Allowed to be held. 323 00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:30.200 So I think the senses that in Hakka, although the 324 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:34.960 press conference was barred from being broadcast in Bangladesh using 325 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:40.079 their draconian media censorship laws, that in fact the Hakka 326 00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:43.319 has sort of faced earlier as well, Asina herself had 327 00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:48.359 blocked similar press conferences or media statements are broadcast by 328 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:50.960 Tarik Rahman, who was in London back in the day 329 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:55.079 for about seventeen years. So the Tarik Rahman government used 330 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:58.640 the same laws to block Hasina's press conference to be 331 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:03.799 broadcast in the media on fifth of August. Nevertheless, I 332 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:09.960 think people have heard her through different channels and different ways. 333 00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:14.160 And Shubiji the fact that this event took place in Delhi, 334 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:17.920 how could that impact India Bangladest relations. 335 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:23.680 So there has been a sense of disquiet and concern 336 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:27.119 in Dhaka, as have gathered after talking to people there 337 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:30.480 that people in the government and the political establishment feel 338 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:34.160 that this only reinforces the belief that India is pro 339 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:38.359 Awami League, is pro Hasina and is unable to reconcile 340 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:42.599 to the new political realities where BNP and JAMA are 341 00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:47.559 the two major political players, and Bangladesh had forewarned in 342 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:51.079 the Indian government that they should not allow this to happen. 343 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:54.240 But the Indian government's position has been that it does 344 00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:57.599 not endorse the views. It is not organizing those views. 345 00:21:57.640 --> 00:21:59.680 It is being done by a private entity. There's no 346 00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:03.799 government control in it. But many in Bangladesh government view 347 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.599 this as sort of allowing this presconsience to happen. They 348 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.839 perceived this as like couldn't have happened without the support 349 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:15.039 or the blessings of the Indian government. 350 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.720 Now we don't know whether that's correct or not, but. 351 00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:19.960 It's fair to say that, you know, the fact that 352 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:21.799 she's been living here for the last two years and 353 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.440 this is the first time she spoke out. The impression 354 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:28.359 is that the Indian government had sort of, if not 355 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:31.880 you know, saying it, but at least they were aware 356 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:34.720 of the fact that what kind of reaction it would 357 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:38.720 generate from Dhaka. So many in Dhaka view this as 358 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:42.559 a misstep at a time when the Tarakrahman government and 359 00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:46.799 New Delhi trying to repair tie. And this also puts 360 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:50.480 the possible visit by Tarak Rahman for the Brick Summit 361 00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:54.440 in September Injio party. So we'll have to see how 362 00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:59.160 the Indian government is able to navigate and get past 363 00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:05.240 this Deitler challenge that this particular episode has thrown up. 364 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:09.119 And in the last two years has the relationship between 365 00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:12.720 the two countries improved at all? What trajectory did the 366 00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:15.279 relationship follow after Hassena was ousted? 367 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.920 Well, you know, after Hassina was ousted, the interim government 368 00:23:20.599 --> 00:23:24.799 was raised the issue of her extradition back to Bangladesh 369 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:29.480 and the Indian government has not responded to that officially, 370 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:35.519 essentially not responding it positively so far. So that created 371 00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:38.759 some bit of tension between India and Bangladesh. 372 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:41.279 And also we saw, you know, some sort of. 373 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:46.200 Political persecution and revenge was the order of the day. 374 00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:50.880 There was a law and order situation in Bangladesh where 375 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:51.920 Awami League. 376 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:53.839 Supporters were targeted. 377 00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:58.079 Which included some Hindus as well, and the Indian government 378 00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:03.720 under the BJP had raised the issue with Bangladesh. However, 379 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:07.440 I mean things did not sort of change dramatically in 380 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:11.720 the one and a half years and that Prosor Mahmad Yunus, 381 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.599 the Nobel Laureate was in charge, was leading the interim 382 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:16.880 government post. 383 00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:18.440 Elections in Bangladesh. 384 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.680 I think there's been outreach by the two sides, so 385 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:26.119 there's been some improvement, some positive movement. For example, Vida 386 00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:29.960 services have been brought back in the last few months, 387 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.799 although not in full throttle like it used to be 388 00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:36.559 pre twenty twenty four, pre August twenty twenty four. But no, 389 00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:39.599 nevertheless it has restarted. But you know, there are a 390 00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:43.480 number of river share water sharing packs that are said 391 00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:47.079 to be the renewed the one in Ganga Ganga Water 392 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:51.400 Treaty sharing treaty needs to be renewed this year. Also, 393 00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:55.480 the Tista Water Sharing Pact has been in limbo for 394 00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:59.000 almost two decades now, and you know the trade restrictions 395 00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:01.799 are in place, so there are no new projects that 396 00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:06.240 have started between the two sides. So overall the relationship 397 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:08.640 is still was limping back to normal. 398 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:11.000 See, but I think there's a long. 399 00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:15.200 Way to go and an episode like this definitely plays 400 00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:19.680 a role and definitely casts a shadow on the trajectory 401 00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:20.720