Speaker 1: Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership.
Speaker 2: I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo, and Lorenzo on this episode,
Speaker 2: I want to talk about something that happened to me.
Speaker 2: I was in a meeting room with about fifteen or
Speaker 2: twenty people and we were going over strategy on something
Speaker 2: and the person running the meeting, one of two people
Speaker 2: running the meeting, is a person that I've known for
Speaker 2: a while, and this person tends to interrupt everyone.
Speaker 1: And it's it's difficult.
Speaker 2: Because they don't interrupt it to say, you know, shut up.
Speaker 1: You're wrong, or that's ridiculous, be quiet.
Speaker 2: It's it's not an interruption from a standpoint of you're wrong,
Speaker 2: stop talking.
Speaker 1: My point of view is better.
Speaker 2: It's almost almost a shared excitement in some cases, or
Speaker 2: a reaction to half the story because they're trying to engage.
Speaker 1: It's. The point is it doesn't seem.
Speaker 2: Malicious, but it was clear and it has been clear
Speaker 2: that when it happens to somebody in the room, myself included,
Speaker 2: it feels wrong. It feels like, it feels disrespectful. It
Speaker 2: feels like I like I haven't been able to say
Speaker 2: what I need to say, and I could see eye
Speaker 2: rolls coming from other people in the room when that
Speaker 2: when that would happen, And it got me thinking about,
Speaker 2: you know, how how has this happened for so long?
Speaker 2: Because it's it's happened with other people that I've seen
Speaker 2: over the course of months, and and you know it
Speaker 2: either no one said anything or or they have said it,
Speaker 2: and it's falling on deaf ears. And I guess the
Speaker 2: point I'm trying to say is what we need to
Speaker 2: talk about here is is how to handle this or
Speaker 2: whether or not it should be handled, and when it
Speaker 2: is handled how and if it's if if it's bothering you,
Speaker 2: is it doesn't need to be handled or is this
Speaker 2: something you just kind of like chalk it up to
Speaker 2: everybody's different you you walk away or how do you?
Speaker 1: How do you do this?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I think first of all, it's a it's
Speaker 3: a great example.
Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of things that in conversations
Speaker 4: I I kind of chalk it up to like self awareness.
Speaker 4: There's like a lot of habits that people have interrupting
Speaker 4: kind of being one of them. Because again, even though
Speaker 4: even though it might act to move, you know, it
Speaker 4: might work in a way that moves the conversation forward
Speaker 4: or faster, or there's excitement. I get that a lot,
Speaker 4: like there's excitement and dialogue or healthy debate and somebody
Speaker 4: you know interrupts quite often. But if you don't, if
Speaker 4: you're not conscious of it, and if you're not you know,
Speaker 4: thinking about it, and if nobody's giving you that feedback,
Speaker 4: like that's really the hardest part there is if nobody's
Speaker 4: talked to you or pulled you aside and mentioned it.
Speaker 4: It's hard to work on if you don't see it,
Speaker 4: especially because and what I've seen in having you know,
Speaker 4: family members all over the country and relationships with parents
Speaker 4: and things like that, like this is one of the
Speaker 4: things that's it's it's typically in somebody's personality, like they
Speaker 4: are this person at home and at work. It's not
Speaker 4: like they just turn it on for work and now
Speaker 4: they start interrupting everybody. But you know, to to to
Speaker 4: address that type of disrespect, I think step one is
Speaker 4: having that conversation and pulling somebody inside and saying, hey,
Speaker 4: I want to talk a little bit about you know
Speaker 4: what just happened to the media or are you conscious
Speaker 4: of this or have you been given this feedback before?
Speaker 4: But especially in a space where you may be trying
Speaker 4: to you know, collect ideas or thoughts or even pushback.
Speaker 4: I think it's important to first have that conversation with someone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right with that.
Speaker 2: I think about the times when I have withheld feedback
Speaker 2: on something like this where I could have given feedback
Speaker 2: on this and chose not to, versus times when I
Speaker 2: could give feedback and I chose to give it. And
Speaker 2: I think what it comes down to is is this
Speaker 2: I think I think I try to judge or assess
Speaker 2: the intent of the person who's doing the interrupting, and.
Speaker 1: If in my mind it's.
Speaker 2: From the standpoint of you know, excitement and engagement and
Speaker 2: lack of self awareness, then what happens is like if
Speaker 2: if I was given feedback on something and it was
Speaker 2: and the thing that I was doing was rooted in
Speaker 2: a lack of self awareness, my reaction would be like
Speaker 2: I would instantly start going through all the interactions that
Speaker 2: I've had with people over the last however many, you know,
Speaker 2: months or whatever, and from a standpoint of, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I did like what how did.
Speaker 1: I do this to other people? What did I do?
Speaker 1: Like just from a from a wanting to preserve the relationship.
Speaker 2: Standpoint, like not a defensive like you know, get out
Speaker 2: of my face standpoint, but just like a genuine like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I care about these relationships. I hope
Speaker 2: I haven't hurt them, and wanting to make them better.
Speaker 2: And I think I try to put myself in the
Speaker 2: shoes of another person before I give that feedback and think,
Speaker 2: I don't want to make them feel bad for something
Speaker 2: that they didn't do out of malice.
Speaker 1: I I but but I'm doing.
Speaker 2: Them a disservice in the long term if I don't,
Speaker 2: because if they're more likely to react positively and to
Speaker 2: make the changes hearing the feedback from somebody to have
Speaker 2: a really positive relationship with versus someone who just like
Speaker 2: met them for the first time, they do their whole
Speaker 2: interrupting thing. After the meeting, that person goes up and says, hey,
Speaker 2: that was really rude.
Speaker 1: Stop it. You know that's that's a harsher way to
Speaker 1: hear it.
Speaker 2: And then if that, if that, if that person has
Speaker 2: never heard that feedback from anybody before, that could that
Speaker 2: could hit Like the longer you go without getting feedback,
Speaker 2: the harder it hits. And so I think, you know,
Speaker 2: if you if you like a person, if you have
Speaker 2: a relationship with somebody, you almost have a responsibility to
Speaker 2: to at least you know, set the seeds and you know,
Speaker 2: you know, set the wheels in motion of giving that
Speaker 2: feedback so that they can, you know, take the steps
Speaker 2: if they choose to, because it ultimately's on them to
Speaker 2: make the changes. But but if you consider yourself a colleague,
Speaker 2: I think there's going to be some personal responsibility to
Speaker 2: start that feedback process.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I want to be clear too, I think
Speaker 4: sometimes interrupting is a good thing and you have to
Speaker 4: do it. And whether it's redirecting a conversation or you know,
Speaker 4: stopping something from you know, builing it over, or if
Speaker 4: somebody is sharing information that's that's not correct, you know,
Speaker 4: like like to not allow it to just live and
Speaker 4: have people here.
Speaker 3: Like I I know that I use.
Speaker 4: Interruption as a tool, and I think it's definitely should
Speaker 4: be applied when needed. But I think to your point,
Speaker 4: if it's something that is always happening, if it's something
Speaker 4: that's just a part of somebody's personality, you know, talking
Speaker 4: talking to them about it, whether it's a pure relationship
Speaker 4: or reporting relationship, I think both of them it's a
Speaker 4: very important thing to bring up and to share and
Speaker 4: to showcase if you have true intention to help somebody
Speaker 4: get better. But I think the to me, the larger
Speaker 4: piece of it is kind of like as you were
Speaker 4: talking through examples and stuff like and the reason why
Speaker 4: we allow it. I think sometimes we allow it because
Speaker 4: there's an element of authority potentially or almost like admiration.
Speaker 4: Like I think some people that a lot of people
Speaker 4: look up to, that a lot of people make would
Speaker 4: be considered like a you know, a great leader or
Speaker 4: a mentor somebody that typically always has really good insight
Speaker 4: or perspective or that's like we almost allow it, and
Speaker 4: to a degree sometimes expect it from leaders that are
Speaker 4: in that space because we really want to get to
Speaker 4: what their thoughts are. Anyway, So if they interrupt me,
Speaker 4: I'm good with that because I'm trying to get them
Speaker 4: to share with me what that might look like in
Speaker 4: the future. But doesn't necessarily take away the fact that
Speaker 4: it could be a very disrespectful thing to some And culturally,
Speaker 4: another piece of that is some people like it is
Speaker 4: a it's both sides here.
Speaker 3: There are a lot of cultures where you know.
Speaker 4: Talking interrupting engaging in conversation that way is very accepted
Speaker 4: and kind of expected, and if you don't do it,
Speaker 4: you never get a word in. And then there are
Speaker 4: other cultures, you know, in backgrounds of people that as
Speaker 4: soon as you do it once they just stop talking
Speaker 4: because like you would never disrespect an elder, or you
Speaker 4: would never create conflict at work.
Speaker 3: Those types of things.
Speaker 4: So I think it is a big conversation to have,
Speaker 4: and I think that it you know, just the idea
Speaker 4: of you know, disrespectful behavior. So much of that is
Speaker 4: defined by the person that's feeling disrespected, and I think
Speaker 4: it just it requires and in leadership, a really good
Speaker 4: awareness of body language and responses that you see from
Speaker 4: people in certain situations to understand how they take certain things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 2: I like one of the things you mentioned in there
Speaker 2: was this idea of, oh, if I'm being interrupted, it's
Speaker 2: because I want to get what the boss is thinking anyway.
Speaker 1: So I become fine with that.
Speaker 2: And you know, I think in some situations that's not
Speaker 2: necessarily unhealthy, because if the goal of the meeting is
Speaker 2: to is to get to what the boss wants anyway,
Speaker 2: then that's fine. But I think there there there's collateral
Speaker 2: damage when that happens, because if if a boss is
Speaker 2: constantly interrupting, even if the in this particular meeting, that's
Speaker 2: what you want because you want to get their thoughts
Speaker 2: so you can move forward anyway, I think it stifles
Speaker 2: future contributions from people when when the goal isn't just
Speaker 2: to get what the boss is thinking, but the goal
Speaker 2: is to collaborate and to you know, come to agreements
Speaker 2: on what strategy should be as you're as you're building strategy,
Speaker 2: and so there I know that there are people when
Speaker 2: I was in that meeting the other day, I know
Speaker 2: there are people who just didn't say anything because they
Speaker 2: knew they would be interrupted, and so that you didn't contribute.
Speaker 2: And was it a problem during during that meeting. Maybe not,
Speaker 2: Maybe they didn't have maybe they didn't have much to
Speaker 2: contribute anyway, But I know on a long enough timeline
Speaker 2: it is a problem.
Speaker 1: On a long enough timeline and enough.
Speaker 2: Meetings, there is enough potential good ideas or good contributions
Speaker 2: or or relevant feedback. You know that doesn't get said
Speaker 2: when when a person is just known for being the
Speaker 2: one who will constantly interrupt, Eventually.
Speaker 1: It will hurt. It will hurt.
Speaker 2: Things in terms of the relationships and in terms of
Speaker 2: you know, potential business outcomes when people just stop speaking
Speaker 2: up because somebody is doing you.
Speaker 1: Know, a lot, a lot of disrespecting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, let me ask you when you think about, you know,
Speaker 4: over time, is this something that you've seen more of
Speaker 4: or less of? Because as you were talking, in my head,
Speaker 4: I was thinking about my observations as far as like,
Speaker 4: is this something that's a lot more prevalent today than
Speaker 4: it was before?
Speaker 3: Like, what's your opinion on that? That's a great question.
Speaker 1: I think probably less.
Speaker 2: I think I see maybe less of it over time
Speaker 2: from from people as a whole. I think there is
Speaker 2: an increase in emotional intelligence from a lot of people
Speaker 2: in general.
Speaker 1: Like I think as emotional intelligence has become.
Speaker 2: More valued and you know, something that people look for
Speaker 2: in another person, I think that the a lot more
Speaker 2: people have that then maybe had it, you know, twenty
Speaker 2: or thirty years ago.
Speaker 1: And one of the criteria of that, I think.
Speaker 2: Is just kind of respecting others, not interrupting them, letting
Speaker 2: them finish, even if you even if you are like
Speaker 2: chomping at the bit to like say what you want
Speaker 2: to say, just the idea of letting somebody else finish.
Speaker 1: In general, I think so I see a little bit
Speaker 1: less of it now.
Speaker 2: There are there are one off examples where individual people
Speaker 2: that's just who they are, you know.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I would say less. Why do you disagree?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 4: I think I seem more interrupting, but actually like it
Speaker 4: having less intention of actually interrupting. It's like more of
Speaker 4: an attention thing where like you may be talking to
Speaker 4: someone and they're just not paying attention to what you're
Speaker 4: talking about, and then they interrupt you because it's not
Speaker 4: even like in their head that you're talking. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: see that more often, but it's not with the intention
Speaker 4: of like trying to interrupt a conversation.
Speaker 2: Sure, So it's like it's just like, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of the a result of the YouTube life where everything's
Speaker 2: on demand and everything's a distraction.
Speaker 1: It's almost like it's almost like.
Speaker 2: The the subtle ADHD that we've all developed in our
Speaker 2: own brains over the last ten years because of just
Speaker 2: the constant influx of stimuli. And I think there's maybe
Speaker 2: there's a some some negative effects of that.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And with that it brings us to this episode
Speaker 3: as a one minute hack. But first a few words
Speaker 3: from our sponsors.
Speaker 2: All right, for this episode's one minute Hacker's or I
Speaker 2: wants you to do. When it comes to giving somebody
Speaker 2: feedback or addressing a situation where someone is interrupting constantly
Speaker 2: or being disrespectful constantly, you know, there there's two things
Speaker 2: to consider. One is whether or not the disrespect was intentional.
Speaker 2: So you know, some people interrupt because they are actually
Speaker 2: being disrespectful, and some or they're trying to be disrespectful,
Speaker 2: some people in a because they are just excited and
Speaker 2: don't think they're being disrespectful. And then on the other side,
Speaker 2: there's there's the question if to ask yourself is whether
Speaker 2: or not feedback is needed. And so if you think
Speaker 2: about a situation, there are situations where a person wasn't
Speaker 2: meant meaning to be disrespectful, but feedback is still needed.
Speaker 2: And there are scenarios where a person is being disrespectful
Speaker 2: but it's actually not appropriate for you to give feedback.
Speaker 2: And so you have to think about each scenario and
Speaker 2: figure out, you know, is this something where it's my
Speaker 2: job to address this and if so, how.
Speaker 1: Do I do that?
Speaker 2: Do I do it immediately when it's happening, Whether there's
Speaker 2: people around or not do I wait and do it
Speaker 2: later on when it's just me and that person one
Speaker 2: on one. And all these things are are are things
Speaker 2: to consider, but in general, if a person is if
Speaker 2: a person needs the feedback on something they're doing, either
Speaker 2: interrupting constantly or being disrespectful constantly, you know, if it's
Speaker 2: your responsibility to give that feedback or if you want
Speaker 2: to see a change, it has to start with giving
Speaker 2: that feedback. And and the only times that I can
Speaker 2: think of where that it's not appropriate to do are
Speaker 2: when either it's a one off interaction. You're never going
Speaker 2: to see that person again or interact with them again,
Speaker 2: So why why go down that path that's between them
Speaker 2: and the other people that they're they have relationships with,
Speaker 2: or when it could be something that is it could
Speaker 2: be detrimental to your career, And and and then sometimes
Speaker 2: it's appropriate to take a partner when when going forward
Speaker 2: that instead of doing it on your own.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I like, I like the idea of understanding. And
Speaker 4: I said this earlier that like there's a time and
Speaker 4: place for it. It's absolutely an element of normal banter
Speaker 4: and dialogue and conversation as well. I think many times,
Speaker 4: like when I feel if I would say, like I
Speaker 4: got this, you know, I felt disrespected because somebody interrupted.
Speaker 4: It's probably because I felt I had feelings about something
Speaker 4: else in general, and they also interrupted me, and I didn't.
Speaker 3: Like that either.
Speaker 4: You know, like that's typically a lot of it, but
Speaker 4: but when leaders do it consistently, I absolutely like myself personally,
Speaker 4: I just I just stopped talking to this. Okay, Well,
Speaker 4: in my mind, what they have to say is more
Speaker 4: important than when I have to say, so I'm going
Speaker 4: to allow it. I'm going to kind of go from there.
Speaker 4: But I also know that that in many instances, I
Speaker 4: have to be I have to give that feedback if
Speaker 4: I felt that way, because if I felt that way,
Speaker 4: there's a chance that others might have felt that way, and.
Speaker 3: Somebody, somebody should be aware of it. If there's something
Speaker 3: that they constantly do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's an element of ownership for other people's experience.
Speaker 2: And if you're if you're a leader of leaders, or
Speaker 2: if you're a leader of people, and you know that
Speaker 2: the person who's doing the interrupting interacts with everybody, there
Speaker 2: can be an element or a feeling of personal responsibility
Speaker 2: to address something with somebody. Even if it's not negatively
Speaker 2: impacting you directly, You just kind of, like Grin and
Speaker 2: Barratt or get through it because you don't value their
Speaker 2: opinion anyway, and you move through your day. If that
Speaker 2: can be impacting others that you feel a personal responsibility
Speaker 2: for for their experience, then it can be necessary to
Speaker 2: address that on behalf of them. So that's something you
Speaker 2: definitely want to consider as well when it comes to
Speaker 2: just whether or not it's your responsibility to say.
Speaker 4: Something absolutely and with that it brings us at the
Speaker 4: end of this episode, this is how your leadership. I'm
Speaker 4: Lorenzo and I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you all
Speaker 4: next time.