WEBVTT 1 00:00:19.079 --> 00:00:21.440 I think this is the beginning of the holiday season. 2 00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:26.120 And if you're enjoying turkey this weekend like I am, 3 00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:30.879 it's Thanksgiving weekend. I guess you could say it. And 4 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:34.719 I would like to wish you all happy Thanksgiving and 5 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:40.439 time to get ready for the holidays and gatherings and 6 00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:47.320 socializing and consuming lots of calories lots of protein. You know, 7 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:50.280 it's just the way it is. I've tried for years 8 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:56.799 to stay away from sugar and cookies and pastries and candies. 9 00:00:57.479 --> 00:01:00.960 It's impossible. You don't want to be rude to people. 10 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:04.400 You go to someone's house for a holiday and you're like, no, 11 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:07.640 I won't have a slice of that wonderful cake, that 12 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:12.000 that black forest cake with my turkey, or my prime rib. 13 00:01:12.760 --> 00:01:16.079 No I won't have that eggnog and brandy. I already 14 00:01:16.120 --> 00:01:19.799 told you how I feel about eggnog and brandy. Oh 15 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:25.799 my god, that stuff is amazing. So it's tough. It's tough, 16 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:30.599 but it's the time to celebrate, and you can't be 17 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:37.280 too strict. You have to indulge a little bit, and 18 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:41.480 that's important. You know, it's time to be with friends 19 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:44.680 and family and kind of kick back and think back 20 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:47.719 how the year was and you know, gather with some 21 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:50.480 of the people that you really care about, and that's 22 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:53.319 really important. Hey, this is a cliff you're host of 23 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:58.319 earth ancients, and not only do we wish you happy holidays, 24 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:03.599 but as they comes, and I think it's important to 25 00:02:03.599 --> 00:02:07.319 think about all the wonderful events that have happened. And 26 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:09.039 some are the ones that are not that great, but 27 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:10.919 we don't want to keep those in our mind too long. 28 00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:17.120 But today we are going to revisit the subject of Atlantis. 29 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:21.000 And we had my guests earlier this year, Jack Kelly, 30 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:25.840 presenting a documentary that actually did very very well. I 31 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:31.039 think there were several million people that watched it on Netflix, 32 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:35.120 and then it was transferred to YouTube where you can 33 00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:38.719 see most of it for free. Now. That documentary is 34 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:43.199 called The Atlantis Puzzle, a true story of Ancient Greece, 35 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:49.520 Africa and climate change across deep Time. And at that 36 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:54.639 time we were speaking about the documentary and what they 37 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:59.960 had found in Northern Africa, and at that time I 38 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:02.240 was still kind of on the fence because they really 39 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:06.680 had not found any ruins, any pyramids, any stone buildings, 40 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:11.919 any stone structures whatsoever. And this is why today's program 41 00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:16.360 is so important because, according to Jack, he has located 42 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:20.919 and documented fifty percent more content than what was featured 43 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:24.360 in the documentary. And this is what I've been looking for, 44 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:29.159 Which are the stone foundations and ruins of ancient civilizations. 45 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:32.840 There are, and we'll hear about this today. There's a 46 00:03:32.840 --> 00:03:37.039 few pyramids that have been found in the Sahara Western 47 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:43.560 Sahara area of Africa, and this is critical for us 48 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:49.039 to believe this Rechat area, which is the circular geological 49 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:55.599 formation that is highlighted in George Sarantida's book and research 50 00:03:56.120 --> 00:04:03.199 as the original mythologicaltis. So we're gonna hear more about 51 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:06.319 that today. I have a gallery that I'm gonna put 52 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:10.319 up with some of the new photos. But he is 53 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:16.560 still convinced that this area, the circular feature that sure 54 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:23.519 looks very abnormal, very unusual, is the true Atlantis. Now, 55 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:27.199 the other thing that comes up a great deal when 56 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:30.079 we're talking about the time period for Atlantis, which is 57 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:32.600 the I think they believe it's a one hundred thousand 58 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:37.120 years up until present, is that the Sahara, what we 59 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:39.560 call a desert, was not a desert at all. It 60 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:43.800 was actually very lush green. There were forests. There were 61 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:52.800 areas that had huge foliage and land grass, which would 62 00:04:52.839 --> 00:04:57.199 be excellent for you know, growing crops, for you know, 63 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:03.000 existing and supporting a large pop And the information in 64 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:06.040 the book is which was just released a few months ago, 65 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:11.399 is very detailed and actually has the evidence from geologists, 66 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:16.399 from anthropologists, from archaeologists who are out there right now 67 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:19.639 in Africa foraging through the land and looking for these 68 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:23.800 items that are out there. So today's program is the 69 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:34.079 Atlantis Puzzle, and my returning guest is producer writer Jack Kelly. 70 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:36.600 It's time to look forward to twenty twenty six for 71 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:40.920 new tours and we have our seventh annual Grand Egyptian 72 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:43.879 Tour coming up in April twenty eighth through May tenth. 73 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:48.399 This is an opportunity to see the largest statuary in 74 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:51.199 the world. We're going to go out and see old 75 00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:54.800 Kingdom ruins as well where we have pyramids, was we're 76 00:05:54.839 --> 00:06:00.279 left of temples and some monumental megaliths in obelisks and 77 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:05.079 cut stone that rarely are visited by the general public. 78 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:09.920 For all the information and details, including a wonderful iterary, 79 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:13.920 go to Earth Ancients dot com forward Slash Tours look 80 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:17.360 for the semath annual Grant Egyptian Tour banner. Click it 81 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:21.560 you'll see the full itinerary. We've just added Armando May 82 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:28.279 to discuss the recent discoveries and scans of the Cufu 83 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:32.439 and Caffree Pyramids, which we will visit personally. He will 84 00:06:32.439 --> 00:06:37.360 be our special guest and more in Cairo. There's a 85 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:40.040 lot more to check out, a lot more that's being added, 86 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:46.079 but this is a very very good, solid and inexpensive tour. 87 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:48.839 Our tours are about half the cost of everyone else. 88 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:52.079 So for more information go to Earth Ancients dot com 89 00:06:52.439 --> 00:07:27.600 Forward Slash Tours, come out and join us. We featured 90 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:31.160 a documentary earlier in the year called The Atlantis Puzzle 91 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:35.720 with the producer Jack Kelly, and it was very well received. 92 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:40.160 It was probably the best example of proof that there 93 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:46.319 was a place called Atlantis, and I had to say 94 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:51.199 I enjoyed it. And we are bringing Jack back because 95 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:53.920 he's just released a new book called The Atlantis Puzzle, 96 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:58.439 a true story of Ancient Greece, Africa and climate change 97 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:02.480 across deep Time. And I had a chance to look 98 00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:04.560 at it, and not only do we want to talk 99 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:07.360 about it, but he has a lot of new material 100 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:12.279 in this book that is important to discuss and very relevant. 101 00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:14.839 So Jack, welcome back to Earth Ancient. Is great to 102 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:17.160 have you on the program. How you doing, Cliff, I'm 103 00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:21.480 doing great. Thanks for having me talk about this book. 104 00:08:21.639 --> 00:08:25.079 Was this always in the mix when you started the 105 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:28.360 documentary or did it just come out from the work 106 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:31.120 that you produced in the documentary. 107 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:37.519 The research that went into the film I think asked 108 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:42.039 to be brought out in a book format. So, first 109 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:46.320 of all, as most people know, George Serantidis is the 110 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:52.200 mastermind behind all these recent discoveries and thought processes around 111 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:55.799 the real geography of Atlantis, so I always like to 112 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:58.799 give him credit first and foremost. And George's book is 113 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:02.320 a too divorce. I mean, it's it's on an academic 114 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:06.120 level of detail and so forth. So as I was 115 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:09.799 doing the research for this project, I had to leave 116 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:12.480 a lot of things out of the film that I 117 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:17.039 felt were really worth talking about or including in a 118 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:20.360 chapter or a sidebar in a book where you could 119 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:24.480 go into more detail. And so after the film was done, 120 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:26.600 you know, I kind of kept you know, it's like 121 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:29.120 one of those things where you think you're you think 122 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:31.440 you're done going to the cookie jar and then you're like, oh, 123 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:35.039 maybe just one more. And I just kept thinking, you know, 124 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:37.879 there's so much interesting stuff here that we couldn't fit 125 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:41.600 into the film. Let me put this down into book 126 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:46.480 format and in that sense kind of build on what 127 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:49.799 both George and the film had accomplished. 128 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:57.639 Let's highlight the documentary. You feature George. We actually had 129 00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:01.720 him on the program. He's a Greek researcher and he 130 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:10.279 found this portion of I guess it's North Africa that 131 00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:16.879 has this geological formation that basically follows the somewhat the 132 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:24.240 writing of Guy. It's not Homer Plato, thank you. I'm 133 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:26.679 thinking of Homer. I've been reading about Homer lately. But 134 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:31.159 Plato talks about these concentric rings and the channels and 135 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:37.080 the various landforms that come up in this location. What 136 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:42.080 else does the documentary begin to talk about. Let's highlight that. Yeah. 137 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:45.399 So The Atlantis Puzzle came out last year and you 138 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:48.559 can find it on Amazon and to Be and you know, 139 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:54.240 dozens of different networks, and it's been pretty well received. 140 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:58.679 And that documentary tells George Serrantidus's story, and for those 141 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:02.919 who aren't familiar with him, George is a Greek researcher 142 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:06.639 who had a deep interest in Plato, and he was 143 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:10.679 always really puzzled by the Atlantis story because he thought, well, 144 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:14.639 this doesn't really fit exactly in with a lot of 145 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:19.200 Plato's other writings and stories. And one of the things 146 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:23.039 that makes it different, because Plato does reference myths in 147 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:26.879 some of his other philosophic writings, is that the Atlantis 148 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:31.200 story had very specific dates attached to it. So that 149 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:33.679 was sort of the first interesting thing. So George was 150 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:37.519 going back and spending some time on this, and he 151 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:39.879 had spent a lot of time looking at Plato's use 152 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:45.960 of mythology, and when he started digging into the Atlantis 153 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:49.320 story to really try and pick it apart, he realized 154 00:11:49.320 --> 00:11:52.679 that there were some key mistranslations in the story that 155 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:57.159 had led it to be considered in the realm of fantasy. 156 00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:00.039 And I don't want to offend anybody, but led to 157 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:02.879 a lot of weird, fringe theories and things that we 158 00:12:02.919 --> 00:12:06.840 know are not scientific. Right, A continent never existed in 159 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:08.799 the middle of the Atlantic Ocean that sank in a 160 00:12:08.840 --> 00:12:12.200 single day and night. Right, That's just not how physics works. 161 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:18.639 But as George dug into this deeper, he came up 162 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:22.120 with a sort of schematic geography and you know, not 163 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:26.440 to spoil the film for people. Essentially, through the process 164 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:31.360 of elimination and referencing some other ancient historical and geographic texts, 165 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:40.240 he he narrowed down the geography to essentially western northwestern Africa, 166 00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:44.200 and there's a lot of reasons that we go into 167 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:46.440 in the film as to why that is probably the 168 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:51.039 case and how the reasons that that fits the story. 169 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:56.120 Key point here, that's the geography of the story. A 170 00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:58.879 lot of people have sort of jumped to the conclusion 171 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:02.200 that that means the story is completely true. What this 172 00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:06.240 is is a clue that sort of says, look, this 173 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:10.960 is the geography that was being spoken about. Well, to me, Cliff, 174 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:14.000 that means, hey, now you have to take this story 175 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:17.080 seriously and you have to really do some work. You 176 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:19.559 can't assume it's all true or all false. You really 177 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:21.639 have to pick it apart and try and figure out 178 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:25.200 which elements here are real because we have, you know, 179 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:29.399 we have this sort of smoking gun that there's real 180 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:32.480 geography here that matches up with the story in an 181 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:37.799 extremely detailed way as far as natural geography right can fit, 182 00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:43.840 sort of perfect geometrical shapes. It's it's extremely close, and 183 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:47.240 so I think the skeptics took that, and I've had 184 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:50.440 some critics say, well, this is pseudo archaeology, this is fake. 185 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:55.279 And I've had some insane people reach out to me 186 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:58.840 and sort of say, I know about you know, all 187 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:03.440 this history and nuclear wars and aliens and just transdimensional 188 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:06.600 beings and the continent of Moo. They had a war 189 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:09.240 with Atlantis. I'll reveal my sources if you reach out 190 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.360 to me. And I've sort of said thanks, but no 191 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:12.080 thanks Palace. 192 00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:13.879 Yeah, yeah, I get that a lot too. 193 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:17.879 Yeah, I'm gonna sit back. But I think what's exciting 194 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:24.279 about this is much like the story of Troy, you know, 195 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:27.440 the Trojan War and Heinrich Schlieman's discovery of that in 196 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:31.600 the eighteen seventies and eighties. He found that Troy was 197 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:34.360 a real place. Now, does that mean that every line 198 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:37.200 in the Iliot is true? No? Right, I mean the 199 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:40.600 gods didn't swoop down and zap people with thunderbolts, and 200 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:44.039 you know, I don't think anyone believes that happened. But 201 00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:46.200 now we believe that this is a real place. So 202 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.799 there is a historical rooting to the story. And so 203 00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:52.919 that's the big question, Mark Cliff, is what were the 204 00:14:53.120 --> 00:15:00.000 historical roots that led to the myth that Plato has referenced. 205 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:03.840 I think George Sarantius makes a very good point too. 206 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:10.320 He revisited Eucretius in these other documents and read them 207 00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:14.320 and translated them into the original Greek, which was really 208 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:17.720 very important because we get a great deal of new 209 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:21.399 information that comes out in the documentary. That was a 210 00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:23.639 highlight that I think was important. 211 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:27.720 Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Yeah, we really tried to 212 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:31.879 without dumbing George's you know, analysis and his grammar, you know, 213 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:34.120 and all the hard work he did, dumbing it down 214 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:37.960 too much or getting lost in the weeds, but trying 215 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:43.840 to convey the discoveries that he made. And a great 216 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:49.919 example is just the word Pelagos. So in the old translations, 217 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:54.720 people said, well, atlantic Pelagos. Plato must have been talking 218 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:58.039 about the Atlantic Ocean, because I know the Atlantic Ocean. 219 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:02.480 Everybody knows the Atlantic Ocean, and nobody here at Oxford 220 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:05.840 or wherever in eighteen fifty three has ever heard of 221 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:09.720 an Atlantic Pelagos. Well, what George was able to do 222 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:14.200 was put together modern knowledge about climate change that is 223 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:19.720 really mind blowing, and map that onto the story and say, well, look, 224 00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:23.799 this doesn't say okeanos. And the Greeks knew what the 225 00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:26.879 Atlantic Ocean was, right, the tin trade with Britain had 226 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:29.279 been going on since the Bronze Age or earlier, so 227 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:32.440 they knew the ocean was there. The Carthaginians knew the 228 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:35.159 ocean was there. I mean, Plato knew the ocean was there. 229 00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:40.320 He uses the word okeanos and other Platonic books dialogues, 230 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:43.559 he doesn't use it here. Well, Plato's not a guy 231 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:47.840 to just throw around random words. He means something specific, 232 00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:52.720 and pelagos is the word that modern Greeks use for 233 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.480 like the Aegean sea or the Ionian sea. Right, It's 234 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:59.679 a specific type of a body of water partially enclosed 235 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:05.920 by And so George started looking for okay, what body 236 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:08.839 of water could could fit this, and he couldn't find one. 237 00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:12.559 But then he started to think about overlaying time. If 238 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:16.839 you go back eleven or twelve thousand years. One of 239 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:19.519 the most shocking things about this whole story to me 240 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:25.240 that I was sure was maybe dubious. I was proven wrong. 241 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:31.440 I mean, the green Sahara is a staggering climatic climactic 242 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:34.839 change that for people who don't know, takes place in 243 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:37.119 these twenty thousand year cycles. So if you go back 244 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:40.279 to the time of the myth of Atlantis ninety six 245 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:47.200 hundred BC, North Africa was green. It was like Savannah. 246 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:51.000 There were massive lakes, and one of these lakes in particular, 247 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:55.920 empties out in the location of modern Tunisia at the 248 00:17:55.920 --> 00:18:01.279 Gulf of Gabez, not far from Sicily, and that geography 249 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:08.599 matches up extremely specifically to the geography that Plato's talking 250 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:13.240 about in the Atlantis myth. So I think from that standpoint, 251 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:16.039 we've for anybody with an open mind, I think we've 252 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:20.599 erased pretty much all shadow of a doubt about where 253 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:21.720 that geography was. 254 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:23.319 And and you. 255 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:30.200 Know, the the philological and the historical and climactic facts 256 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:32.680 that support that identification. 257 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:37.480 It's funny because what's the formation called in North the 258 00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:40.880 Africa is the reshat. 259 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:43.440 Yeah, there was shot structure, right, Yeah. 260 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:47.559 And it's very interesting because George highlights it in a 261 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:52.440 way where that whole area was much greener, much more 262 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:55.680 abundant in forestry and things like that. It's a whole 263 00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:58.960 different world. And I'm trying to think back to the 264 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:03.680 actual period of time when it would be over. It's 265 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:06.640 over twenty thousand years, right, I mean, and then all 266 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.200 of a sudden, through a climatic change, it turned into 267 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:16.119 a desert. So what would be the inception for the 268 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:22.640 Atlantis to have been started to develop into a culture. 269 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:25.880 Yeah, So this is one of the things the questions 270 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:31.039 that I think is really open because you know, the evidence, 271 00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:37.200 the physical evidence that they were shot doesn't reflect a 272 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:40.160 massive city of the type described in the myth. What 273 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:43.680 physical evidence has been found, and again it's a huge 274 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:48.319 area forty kilometers you know in circumference or in sorry diameter, 275 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:52.519 So I don't even think the surface has been scratched there. 276 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:55.000 But there have been archaeologists who've done work out there, 277 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.799 and they have found a tremendous amount of stone tools 278 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:02.640 dating back to actually even before the Holy Scene era, 279 00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:06.079 so you know, pre ten thousand BC, pre ninety six 280 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:11.640 hundred BC. So we know that ancient people have been visiting, hunting, 281 00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:16.359 living in this place over long periods of time. And 282 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:21.200 but you have to put on your sort of long 283 00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:26.119 view binoculars to think back these twenty thousand year cycles. Right, 284 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:29.440 So today we're kind of at the apex of the 285 00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:32.279 dry period, right, But if you were to go back 286 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:35.680 ten thousand years to you know, eight thousand BC, you'd 287 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:38.839 be at the peak wet period. So at that time 288 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:43.000 there was shot had these circular lakes essentially like this 289 00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:47.400 concentric Ring Ring lakes, and we know that ancient people 290 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:51.480 would have probably they're fresh water fossils there, right, So 291 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:54.160 we know that there was marine life, and we know 292 00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:58.400 that ancient people have a long standing relationship with aquatic areas, 293 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:00.359 so we know people would have been hunting, in fishing 294 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:04.640 and spending time there, and there's stone tools that illustrate that. 295 00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:07.960 What we don't know is anything beyond that. To be 296 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:12.039 frank and honestly, anybody who says otherwise, the work just 297 00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:16.640 hasn't been done. So as to what type of well 298 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:19.119 why people would have would have lived there, I think 299 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:22.839 is because of these shallow lakes and the fishing opportunities 300 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:27.720 and the maybe defensive capabilities as well. That brings up 301 00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:30.480 questions about well, how these guys get out there? Did 302 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:33.920 they swim? Did they have boats? And that leads us 303 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:36.000 down the whole you know, the whole story that we 304 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:38.240 cover in the in the film, and to a greater 305 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:41.079 extent in the book about Hey, what what are the 306 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:43.559 facts of this time period? And what are we starting 307 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:46.680 to learn? What are the parts of the Atlanta story 308 00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:48.519 that could be true, and what are the parts that 309 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.720 don't seem They seem like later editions or you know, 310 00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:54.559 functionalizations or or things like that. 311 00:21:54.920 --> 00:22:02.920 Yeah, Plato describes atlant as being you know, devoured by 312 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:04.160 the ocean. It's sunk. 313 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:05.799 Uh. 314 00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:10.000 But you don't believe that's the case, obviously, and Georgie 315 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:15.000 doesn't either. What would be the causation for its demise though? 316 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.599 Was it a was it like Charles Hapgood who believes 317 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:22.359 that the crustal displacement shifted Atlantis and it's now that 318 00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:27.200 he believes that the Antarctica is is Atlantis. And there's 319 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:29.359 a number of other authors that we've had on the program, 320 00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:33.920 researchers who feel the same way. But obviously, if this uh, 321 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:39.440 northern African area has just been decimated at some point 322 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:44.359 it still exists. What was the cause? Was it a tsunami? 323 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:47.759 Was it a horrific flood? What? 324 00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:47.640 What? 325 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:50.720 What? What do you believe is the causation of its demise? 326 00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:54.839 Yeah? So I I this is there's two points to 327 00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:59.400 what you're talking about Cliff and one of them is 328 00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:03.400 again a sort of a mistranslation. The idea that and 329 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:05.279 I won't go into the ancient Greek because it's a 330 00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:09.799 little abstruse, but the idea that a whole continent sank 331 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:12.599 is a misreading of the ancient Greek. What it says, 332 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:23.680 more likely, or more appropriately realistically, is that the the 333 00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:27.440 civilization or the city or whatever was was there, there 334 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:31.000 was an earthquake, there was a there was a flood, 335 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:35.240 and the city was was sort of covered over by water. 336 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.839 Now that's a very different that's a very different translation 337 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:44.000 than suddenly you're going from the realm of continents disappearing 338 00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:49.119 to oh, a city got flooded and there was an earthquake. Well, again, 339 00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:54.440 this is why George's work was so important. Was I 340 00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:57.640 think some of these older academics just took you know, 341 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:00.000 they took their own knowledge. I mean, these guys weren't 342 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:03.799 earthquake experts, so they didn't you know, they're sort of 343 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.000 taking a bit of poetic license. So one of the 344 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:09.279 things we did in the film, and I was grateful 345 00:24:09.279 --> 00:24:12.519 to be able to do, was talking with Oregon State 346 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:18.119 University Engineering dean and earthquake expert doctor Scott Ashford, and 347 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:20.559 I went to him. I said, look, Scott, I just 348 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:23.279 want you to to break this down. Here's the idea. 349 00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:28.480 And he sort of corroborated. Look, a tsunami can't sink 350 00:24:28.519 --> 00:24:32.160 a continent, right, and and an earthquake doesn't sink a 351 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:33.079 continent overnight. 352 00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:33.319 Right. 353 00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:36.319 This would take some time, and you'd have to have 354 00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:40.640 some massive cataclysmic event. Obviously, the land's still there, right, 355 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:44.839 the city's still there, The west part of Africa hasn't disappeared, 356 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:48.799 so it's still there. What could have taken place? And 357 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:53.079 he really, to his credit, took some time. And he 358 00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:58.039 he was familiar with some Native American myths that they 359 00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:02.119 you know, people he knew had substained floodniss that everyone 360 00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:06.640 thought was you know, nonsense because it talks about you know, 361 00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:09.160 the great Spirit beating the drum and the waves. 362 00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:10.000 Of that stuff. 363 00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:14.160 Well, guess what, that's just a symbolic way of illustrating 364 00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:17.039 real events. And so they were able to find this 365 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:20.079 is a sidebar, but they were able to go back. 366 00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:23.759 There was a They found that there was this massive 367 00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:28.480 tsunami that hit the northwest coast of the United States 368 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:33.559 and Canada about three hundred and twenty five years ago, 369 00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:37.039 around seventeen hundred. And the way they figured this out 370 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:40.599 was they went back to newspaper articles in Japan that 371 00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:44.319 spoke about a tsunami that had struck Japan at that time, 372 00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:48.240 where there was no earthquake associated with it. Well, what 373 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:51.240 does that mean. That means the earthquake happened way out 374 00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:54.799 in the Pacific, which means it would have generated waves 375 00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:59.359 in the opposite direction as well, which which hit you know, 376 00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:04.119 north western United States and caused the local people to 377 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:08.279 create this myth about this great flood that took place. 378 00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:12.480 It wiped out a lot of people, right, and you know, 379 00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:15.359 the story goes that those people only survived because their 380 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:20.799 ancestors tied their canoes to the tops of trees. Now 381 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:24.119 did that really happen? I don't necessarily think so, But 382 00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:27.319 there is evidence that a massive tsunami penetrated you know, 383 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:30.880 ten miles inland, So you can only imagine those coastal 384 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.759 communities would have been you know, or something like that, 385 00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:36.839 you know, would have been decimated. So Scott Asher took 386 00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:39.640 a look at the Atlantis story and I, you know, 387 00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:41.799 I talked to him about it and basically said, look 388 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:45.640 all the processes that Plato's describing in this myth or 389 00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:47.400 this story, these are real. 390 00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:47.720 Right. 391 00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:55.240 Earthquakes are real. Tsunamis are real. Liquefaction is this thing 392 00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:58.599 where you have wet soil and when the earthquake hits it, 393 00:26:58.599 --> 00:27:03.000 it sort of creates this vibration. Well, everybody's experienced this. 394 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:05.000 If you've gone to the beach, right, you stand there 395 00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:08.039 a dry sand and you're good. When the wave comes in. 396 00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:10.799 What happens your feet start to sink into it? Rightah, 397 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:14.480 Just think about this on a bigger scale, And I 398 00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:18.319 mentioned this in the book where there have been some 399 00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:24.640 massive recent examples of this. For example, in New Zealand 400 00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:27.720 about fifteen years ago there were these two huge earthquakes 401 00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:32.200