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<v Speaker 1>I can't believe that Trump hasn't thought of doing Trump

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<v Speaker 1>branded social Security bracelets. That would be the authors next step. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>I got it.

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<v Speaker 2>So you've fallen, you can't get up. So okay, are

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<v Speaker 2>we ready?

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<v Speaker 1>Ask not what your country can do for you, ask

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<v Speaker 1>what you can do for your country.

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<v Speaker 3>Mister Gorbachow, tear down this wall.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the Rocchet Podcast with Charles C. W. Cook and

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<v Speaker 2>Stephen Hayward, James Lelex David. We talked to Doah Rothman

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<v Speaker 2>about well basically the world. So let's have reselves a podcast.

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<v Speaker 4>Under the authorities vested in me as the President of

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<v Speaker 4>the United States, I'm officially invoking Section seventy forty of

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<v Speaker 4>the District of Columbia Home Rule Act. You know what

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<v Speaker 4>that is.

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<v Speaker 5>I stand with the people of Washington, d C.

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<v Speaker 3>I stand with Mayor Bowdler, and we are strongly supporting

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<v Speaker 3>their efforts to stop this scheme.

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<v Speaker 4>This is Liberation Day in DC, and we're going to

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<v Speaker 4>take our cat capital back. We're taking it back.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome everybody to the Ricochet Podcast and which one is it?

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<v Speaker 2>Why You're right? It is Episode seven hundred and fifty three.

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<v Speaker 2>You can join us at Ricochet dot com. You really can,

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<v Speaker 2>and you can be part of the most stimulating conversations

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<v Speaker 2>in community on the web, the place you've been looking

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<v Speaker 2>for all these years. Forget Twitter, forget x forget facebooks.

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<v Speaker 2>You'll find your friends at ricochet dot com. I'm James Alex.

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<v Speaker 2>I am joined as ever by Stephen Hayward in California,

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<v Speaker 2>I presume, and Charles Setel you cook in Florida, I presume,

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<v Speaker 2>And gentlemen, all eyes in the nation are turned to

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<v Speaker 2>d C, where the continuing withard atarian fascist takeover continues

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<v Speaker 2>to this day, with people being arrested. So the interesting

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<v Speaker 2>thing about this to me is that there are, as

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<v Speaker 2>we keep saying, there's a big middle lane there for

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<v Speaker 2>somebody to drive through when it comes to all of

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<v Speaker 2>these social issues, and the Democrats can insist on going

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<v Speaker 2>to the narrowest part on the left, like the like

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<v Speaker 2>the gutter in a bowling alley, and staking out their

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<v Speaker 2>claim there. It appears now that you've got to in

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<v Speaker 2>order to be anti Trump, you have to be pro

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<v Speaker 2>the crime in DC, which isn't that bad, mind you,

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<v Speaker 2>It's not that bad. It's really not that bad, and

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<v Speaker 2>we've got the figures to show it. Well, you juke

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<v Speaker 2>the figures, but it's not that bad. So let's uh, Stephen,

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<v Speaker 2>you want to take this first. And then Charles respond

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<v Speaker 2>to what our friend says.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it is Trump has a genius for this, of

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<v Speaker 1>making the Democrats overreact and try and persuade us of

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<v Speaker 1>what our own eyes tell us is not the case.

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<v Speaker 1>Forget the official statistics, which like the Feerau of Labor

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<v Speaker 1>statistics job figures, which are now very contentious. The statistics

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<v Speaker 1>being reported are very iffy these days. I mean the

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<v Speaker 1>DC actually put on leave someone credibly accused of faking

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<v Speaker 1>some of the statistics. But I say forget those statistics.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone who walks into a CBS or a Walgreens in

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<v Speaker 1>an urban area and everything is behind a locked case,

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<v Speaker 1>or people who see all the videos of shoplifting going

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<v Speaker 1>uninterrupted and unpunished, that may into climb, but it's still happening.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's hard to persuade the general public that

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<v Speaker 1>there isn't a general problem of disorder and crime. So

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<v Speaker 1>what what did I hear? James? I think you had

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<v Speaker 1>something like was it one hundred and twenty four car

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<v Speaker 1>break ins? Or is carjackings last weekend or something? Or

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<v Speaker 1>a few nights ago, something crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what's been happening all over the city. One

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and twenty here, one hundred and twenty another ninety

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<v Speaker 2>is that they go through the neighborhoods and they just

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<v Speaker 2>break the window of every single car in the street,

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<v Speaker 2>and then they rifle through it looking for rifles or

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<v Speaker 2>cards or door openers or anything, and then they move along.

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<v Speaker 2>The police are under orders not to pursue them, so

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<v Speaker 2>even if they see them doing this, the guys getting

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<v Speaker 2>their cars and race off and the police say, well,

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<v Speaker 2>what are we gonna do? Hands are tied. And it

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<v Speaker 2>hit our neighborhood two three nights ago or so. We

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<v Speaker 2>had about ten windows on the street shattered, and everybody

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<v Speaker 2>the next morning with you know, the tape up and

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<v Speaker 2>the plastic and the rest of it. It's just grand,

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely griand so yeah, and does that thing. Does that

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<v Speaker 2>qualify as murdered and assault in the rest of it? No,

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<v Speaker 2>But it's quality of life. Everybody look over their shoulder

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<v Speaker 2>and grind their teeth and be angry at the officials

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<v Speaker 2>who do nothing.

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<v Speaker 6>Charles, I have many thoughts. Where to even start, that's

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<v Speaker 6>always yeah, I was going to start with a song.

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<v Speaker 6>I usually start with structure, how the constitution works, and

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<v Speaker 6>this is a slam dunk.

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<v Speaker 5>DC is a federal district.

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<v Speaker 6>D C is no more able to resist the authority

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<v Speaker 6>of the federal government than was the Northwest Territory. It

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<v Speaker 6>can if it wants to have a council or a mayor,

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<v Speaker 6>but Congress can.

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<v Speaker 5>Take those away. That is a delegation of choice.

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<v Speaker 6>So the idea that this is somehow an imposition for

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<v Speaker 6>the federal government to run the federal district, it's completely ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 6>That's not authoitonism. If this were happening in Louisiana, then

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<v Speaker 6>those who were griping would have a case. If President

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<v Speaker 6>Trump work up tomorrow and said I am so worried

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<v Speaker 6>about crime New Orleans or Baton Rouges that I will

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<v Speaker 6>send in federal troops and we now have martial law,

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<v Speaker 6>well yeah, okay, that's a state. It has sovereign claims.

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<v Speaker 6>We have a federal system. The federal government has numerated powers,

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<v Speaker 6>et cetera, et cetera. But that's just not the case here.

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<v Speaker 6>And on the material point, I just don't think the

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<v Speaker 6>good question is is crime coming down? Even if you

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<v Speaker 6>believe the statistics, and I agree that a lot of

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<v Speaker 6>them are duked. But even if you think that that's true,

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<v Speaker 6>the question is yes, but is crime tolerable? Now, sure

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<v Speaker 6>people will say no crime is tolerable, but we live

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<v Speaker 6>in a free country. You're never going to have no crime.

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<v Speaker 6>I don't know anyone on the left or the right,

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<v Speaker 6>and I know both in Washington, d C. Who thinks

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<v Speaker 6>that crime is tolerable, especially women. It just seems to

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<v Speaker 6>be a terrible place for women to exist. And if

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<v Speaker 6>that is the case, then the federal government is totally

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<v Speaker 6>within its rights to look at the existing mechanisms for

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<v Speaker 6>dealing with crime and to say you're not doing your job.

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<v Speaker 6>We are ultimately responsible, especially when the last two or

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<v Speaker 6>three weeks have brought crimes that are connected intrinsically to

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<v Speaker 6>the functioning of the federal government. We had an intern

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<v Speaker 6>in Congress, the Article one branch murdered while going to McDonald's.

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<v Speaker 6>And then we had this doge employee known as Big Balls,

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<v Speaker 6>who got himself into a fight through no fault of

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<v Speaker 6>his own because he was trying to help someone who

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<v Speaker 6>had been assaulted. So you don't even need to fall

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<v Speaker 6>back on the can. That's an ought sort of question.

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<v Speaker 6>If Congress's interns and federal bureaucrats are being routinely assaulted

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<v Speaker 6>in the federal district, then I think it is not

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<v Speaker 6>only reasonable, but imperative for the federal government to do

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<v Speaker 6>something about it. So I'm very much in favor of this.

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<v Speaker 6>What I'm not in favor of, just as a caveat,

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<v Speaker 6>is what James Comas had on Cable News yesterday, which is, well,

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<v Speaker 6>this is a great recipe for the rest of the country.

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<v Speaker 6>Maybe we'll start doing some other cities.

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<v Speaker 5>No, you won't.

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<v Speaker 6>Those other cities are not federal districts have a different responsibility.

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<v Speaker 6>But this fine with me.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'll put you out down as a qualified Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>then when you talk about being a horrible place for women,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean you have anchors on television talking about how

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<v Speaker 2>they have been assaulted outside their studio, how there are

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<v Speaker 2>weedy waggers in the stairwells of the Metro. I mean, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>When I moved to DC in the early nineties, it

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<v Speaker 2>was it was bad. It was very bad, and I'd

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<v Speaker 2>come from a place that was not characterized at all

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<v Speaker 2>by this kind of disorder. By the murders, so many

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<v Speaker 2>murders and so many potholes, and so many vagrants, and

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<v Speaker 2>and I looked at this place as with horror. That

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<v Speaker 2>was my initial impression of DC. I didn't like it.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't like it at all, and I got out

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<v Speaker 2>after three years. But I went back in the teens

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<v Speaker 2>when I was doing some books for Encounter books, and

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<v Speaker 2>I would stay up late and walk back from the

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<v Speaker 2>tabern into my hotel at two o'clock in the morning

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<v Speaker 2>with the totter and my step and it was absolutely fine.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it really got good. It got good for

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<v Speaker 2>a while because they were doing something and the something

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<v Speaker 2>was working. Now, the interesting thing about it, though, is

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<v Speaker 2>that while they were doing something and achieving results and

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<v Speaker 2>getting a safer street by many metrics, they weren't addressing

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<v Speaker 2>any of the root causes. But now, of course, what

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<v Speaker 2>we're always told is that it's pointless to do enforcement

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<v Speaker 2>and all the rest of these things, because what really

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<v Speaker 2>matters is our old friend, root causes, and that unless

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<v Speaker 2>you adjust the sociolomic problems socioeconomic problems that causes in

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<v Speaker 2>the first place, you're doing a bad thing. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you can't do anything unless you address these things, which

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<v Speaker 2>of course we've been addressing for fifty sixty years. And

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<v Speaker 2>that's why. One of the reasons that the Lift seems

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<v Speaker 2>paralyzed about this is that even though they would kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like to walk into a CVS or people's drug

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<v Speaker 2>as we used to call and get some tied without

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<v Speaker 2>having to call somebody over and run the tumblers what

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<v Speaker 2>it would take to do that, they really are kind

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<v Speaker 2>of squeamish about that. And besides the people who are

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<v Speaker 2>stealing these things, or Jean Valjean's who just just need

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<v Speaker 2>to wash their drawers.

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<v Speaker 6>I think root causes are generally nonsense in crime. I

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<v Speaker 6>just think this is such guff. I mean a, it's

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<v Speaker 6>incredibly patronizing. My family historically was very poor. They didn't

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<v Speaker 6>commit crimes. They were not looked upon favorably in the

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<v Speaker 6>social class system of Great Britain. They didn't commit crimes.

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<v Speaker 6>I don't know what that's supposed to imply it. But second,

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<v Speaker 6>it doesn't work. Even if you feel bad for the

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<v Speaker 6>people who commit crimes, that's your prerogative, it doesn't work.

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<v Speaker 6>To go after the root causes. You have to do

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<v Speaker 6>something about it. You have to put cops on the street,

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<v Speaker 6>you have to arrest them, and you have to give

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<v Speaker 6>them sentences. I'm a squish on this question when it

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<v Speaker 6>comes to procedure. I am very much a small L

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<v Speaker 6>liberal when it comes to the due process part of

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<v Speaker 6>the equation. But that doesn't mean that you can't have

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<v Speaker 6>rigorous policing, and it certainly doesn't mean that once you

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<v Speaker 6>have satisfied all the due process steps, you can't punish

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<v Speaker 6>people harshly. You just have to make sure they did it.

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<v Speaker 6>You have to make sure that the accusations are correct,

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<v Speaker 6>that the jury is convened, that the promises that we

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<v Speaker 6>make constitutionally, and half the Bill of Rice is about this,

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<v Speaker 6>are satisfied. But once you've done that, there's no obligation

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<v Speaker 6>just because you have a liberal, small L liberal attitude

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<v Speaker 6>towards due process, to say, oh, let him off then,

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<v Speaker 6>or let him out after a week, or it doesn't

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<v Speaker 6>really matter.

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<v Speaker 5>Nonsense. But none of this works. We know how to

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<v Speaker 5>fix this. It's so annoying.

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<v Speaker 1>We know how to fix this, and we don't do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's exactly it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm reminded of one of Reagan's great lines when

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<v Speaker 1>he was governor of California in the sixties. He says,

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<v Speaker 1>a liberal's idea of being tough on crime is giving

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<v Speaker 1>a longer suspended sentence.

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<v Speaker 5>That was right.

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<v Speaker 1>Isn't that typical? Right? I'm sure it's one of its originals. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, I grew up in those years as

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<v Speaker 1>so you did to James, and root causes was the

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<v Speaker 1>great banner of reform liberalism in the Great Society and

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<v Speaker 1>so forth. And I don't know if it was Juliani

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<v Speaker 1>or who back in the nineties when we were getting

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<v Speaker 1>a handle on it, said we finally figured out that

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<v Speaker 1>the root cause of crime is criminals. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>while the left has sort of learned nothing and forgotten everything.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I go back to twenty nineteen when presidential

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<v Speaker 1>candidate Kamala Harris was talking about one how great bussing

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<v Speaker 1>was and the need to get back to finding the

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<v Speaker 1>root causes of illegal immigration and so forth. So the

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<v Speaker 1>left still says that the root cause of crime is poverty,

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<v Speaker 1>except most poor people, the overwhelming majority, are not criminals.

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<v Speaker 1>And on the other hand, and no one's ever been

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<v Speaker 1>able to do even one of those fancy regression models

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<v Speaker 1>to demonstrate that you know what level of poverty or

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<v Speaker 1>where our so forth. On the other hand, we do

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<v Speaker 1>know the data now goes back decades that these are

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<v Speaker 1>rough numbers, but it's something like, you know, eighty percent

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<v Speaker 1>of crimes are committed by about twenty percent of the

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<v Speaker 1>criminal population. And one of the things that did work,

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<v Speaker 1>Charles mentions, we know what works was identifying and giving

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<v Speaker 1>sentences to those people, and we stopped doing that. And

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<v Speaker 1>partly again, this is the academic left pushing democrats. If

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<v Speaker 1>you are an inmate in higher education, as I unfortunately

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<v Speaker 1>have in for a while now, one of the big phrases,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe Charles you've heard this is the carceral state. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>America is the carceral state. And the decarcoral movement, which

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<v Speaker 1>I think never makes the sort of mainstream press very much,

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<v Speaker 1>but boy, it's huge in the academic journals and classes

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<v Speaker 1>and so forth, has been very big and influential, and

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<v Speaker 1>so you know, the Democrats have gone with that, and

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<v Speaker 1>here we are the.

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<v Speaker 2>Decarceral movement, which is very very noisy online, eventually devolves

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<v Speaker 2>down to this is that while we shouldn't put anybody

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<v Speaker 2>in prison, if somebody does commit a horrible rape or murder,

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<v Speaker 2>they will be dealt with in other ways by society.

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<v Speaker 2>And basically it comes down to vigilanteism. In the end,

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<v Speaker 2>with all of these things, instead of having somebody go

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<v Speaker 2>to a place where they're children and fed and clothes

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<v Speaker 2>for the rest of their life, I will just beat

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<v Speaker 2>them to death with sticks on the outskirts of town.

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<v Speaker 2>Great Charles are gonna say.

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<v Speaker 6>Well, I've always thought that the decastoral people missed the

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<v Speaker 6>follow up question. So one thing that they like to

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<v Speaker 6>say is the United States has a greater percentage of

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<v Speaker 6>its population in jail van and then they insert.

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<v Speaker 5>Whatever, Italy, Europe, the West.

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<v Speaker 6>And my follow up question that never gets asked is

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<v Speaker 6>always Okay, what do they do? Because if the answer

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<v Speaker 6>is they jaywalked, then I have a problem with it.

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<v Speaker 6>If the answer is, which it's not, by the way,

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<v Speaker 6>they smoked marijuana, then I have a problem with it.

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<v Speaker 6>But the answer actually is that they did back things.

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<v Speaker 6>Because America is a more violent and lawless place than Europe,

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<v Speaker 6>especially Western Europe.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't think that is a good thing.

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<v Speaker 6>I do think it's a fact of our history that

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<v Speaker 6>has obtained since the colonial period. Americans were more lawless,

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<v Speaker 6>and I think it's related to our being more freedom

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<v Speaker 6>loving in a perverse and than Europeans. And if you're

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<v Speaker 6>going to have a more lawless society, You're going to

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<v Speaker 6>end up with more people in jail. You can't just

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<v Speaker 6>focus on the consequence of it as if it's bad. So,

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<v Speaker 6>you know, yes, in that sense, like you need to

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<v Speaker 6>look at the root causes, which are that we are

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<v Speaker 6>more lawless. But once you've established that, you just got

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<v Speaker 6>to lock people up and become circular, right, I know.

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<v Speaker 2>My favorite thing to be said the end of the

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<v Speaker 2>argument about root causes comes from West Side story, which

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<v Speaker 2>I believe came out in nineteen sixty one, in which

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<v Speaker 2>the Jets are sitting around and singing off as a

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<v Speaker 2>Krupky signs and they no, it's not that one. They're

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<v Speaker 2>explaining exactly. They're progress of the social welfare system. And

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<v Speaker 2>when they learn or that they do what they do

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<v Speaker 2>because of their origins, they say, you know, sarcastically.

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<v Speaker 7>I'm depraved on a com undeprived. They knew it as

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<v Speaker 7>a punchline in a joke the criminals. Then no, I'm

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<v Speaker 7>not confusing, of course the Jets with actual criminals, but

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<v Speaker 7>the line was there, and I have no doubt whatsoever

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<v Speaker 7>that it reflected a true reality. I'm not deprived, though,

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<v Speaker 7>when it comes though to sleep, and I'll tell you why,

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00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:25.799
<v Speaker 7>because I believe in sleeping comfortably, and I'm going to

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<v Speaker 7>tell you exactly how you can do.

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<v Speaker 2>Good sheets are essential to good sleep. They are. Now

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00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:34.519
<v Speaker 2>life gets hectic, right, finding comfort and calm in this

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00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:37.559
<v Speaker 2>world is essential. We need time for relaxation, for recharging,

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00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:40.440
<v Speaker 2>and for soaking in a sense of peace. Well, with

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<v Speaker 2>cozy Earth, you can create a space that feels like

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00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:46.039
<v Speaker 2>a personal retreat or comfort and serenity come together naturally.

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00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.360
<v Speaker 2>Now who better to tell you that than the avatar,

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<v Speaker 2>the adjudicator of all things comfortable and natural, Charles C. W.

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<v Speaker 2>Cook himself, who I understand has been sleeping on these

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00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:57.639
<v Speaker 2>sheets for many a moon.

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00:15:57.799 --> 00:16:02.519
<v Speaker 6>For years, and sleeping comfortably and sleeping in what can

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00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:06.799
<v Speaker 6>be difficult circumstances weatherwise. I mean, we always start this

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00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:08.600
<v Speaker 6>podcast right and you say, what's the weather like? Can

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00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:10.960
<v Speaker 6>I say it's hot? Oh, it's thunderstorms. But either way

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00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:13.720
<v Speaker 6>it's humid, and that can be difficult. And these sheets

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00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:16.399
<v Speaker 6>are really good if you live in a hot climate.

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00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:17.960
<v Speaker 6>They're also good if you don't live in a hot climate,

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00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:21.639
<v Speaker 6>because they're incredibly comfortable and as I always say, they

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<v Speaker 6>have the approval of my wife, James, and that is

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00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:27.200
<v Speaker 6>the one thing that matters. She chose them, she continues

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<v Speaker 6>to endorse them. I'm sure if they ever run out,

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00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.919
<v Speaker 6>which they haven't, if they have a break or no

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00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:36.919
<v Speaker 6>longer usable, then we will immediately buy another set. Because

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00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.080
<v Speaker 6>when you find good sheets, you keep them.

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<v Speaker 2>Chances of your sheets being sundered are probably nil. But

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00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.840
<v Speaker 2>again there's that guarantee, and there's that reputation that once

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00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:47.200
<v Speaker 2>you have them and you want them in every room

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00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:49.919
<v Speaker 2>and every night, and if Charless, maybe completely convinced, we'll

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00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:52.799
<v Speaker 2>listen to this because so confident you're gonna love your sheets.

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<v Speaker 2>They have a one hundred night's sleep trial and a

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00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.720
<v Speaker 2>ten year warranty. Yeah, like you're going to send them

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00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:01.159
<v Speaker 2>back after Dina nine nights. You won't try them, wear them,

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00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:03.720
<v Speaker 2>love them, or send them back, but you know, trust us,

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00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:06.160
<v Speaker 2>you won't want to. You can start your personal retreat

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00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:08.079
<v Speaker 2>by going to coziearth dot com and using our coupon

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00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:11.079
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335
00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:14.640
<v Speaker 2>say that right? I did forty percent off the softest

336
00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:17.720
<v Speaker 2>betting bath and apparel And if you get a post

337
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:20.200
<v Speaker 2>purchase survey, please tell them you heard about Cozy Earth

338
00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:23.440
<v Speaker 2>right here in Ricochet, Built for real life and made

339
00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:26.319
<v Speaker 2>to keep up with yours, Cozy Earth, and we thank

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00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Cozy Earth for sponsoring this the Ricochet Podcast, And now

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<v Speaker 2>we welcome back to the podcast. Noah Rothman, senior writer

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<v Speaker 2>at the National Review, author of Rise of the New Puritans,

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<v Speaker 2>Fighting Back against Progressives, War on fun, It must follow,

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<v Speaker 2>Foreign policy columnists, and we, uh, well, today there might

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<v Speaker 2>be some developments because we're the President is meeting Putin

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<v Speaker 2>in formerly Russian territory, which I'm glad we have and

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<v Speaker 2>bought and all the rest of it. All right now,

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<v Speaker 2>press conference coming up. What do you expect?

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<v Speaker 3>I have no idea I really happen.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, we'll talk to you later. We're going to

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<v Speaker 2>go to our next gist.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, these are very bad pundit answers, but they're

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<v Speaker 3>also honest pundit answers. And anybody who says otherwise, I

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<v Speaker 3>think either has access to a crystal ball or is

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<v Speaker 3>leaning too hard into their own priors and assumptions. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know what to expect from this. The President is

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<v Speaker 3>very has been very mercurial when it comes to his

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<v Speaker 3>understanding of this conflict. His navigation of this conflict, and

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know where his head is at at any

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<v Speaker 3>given moment. The Russians, on the other hand, are telegraphing

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<v Speaker 3>to the extent we can understand what their strategy is,

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<v Speaker 3>and their strategy maybe to pull a crazy eyev In

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<v Speaker 3>at the negotiating table, But what we understand their strategy

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<v Speaker 3>is is really transparent. It is to provide the President

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<v Speaker 3>with every opportunity to talk about everything other than the

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<v Speaker 3>Ukraine conflict. They're going to offer him deals. They're going

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<v Speaker 3>to offer him the prospect of economic integration and joint

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<v Speaker 3>infrastructure projects in the Arctic. They're going to talk about

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<v Speaker 3>future security arrangements and security cooperation in Europe, and all

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<v Speaker 3>this is going to prove very enticing. I suspect to

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<v Speaker 3>the President. To his credit, he has said it's great.

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<v Speaker 3>All that's great, but none of that's going to happen

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<v Speaker 3>unless we get this war stopped concluded. But my fear

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<v Speaker 3>is that there's a real imbalance when it comes to

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<v Speaker 3>objectives here. The President and his subordinates seem to want peace,

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<v Speaker 3>and that's noble, but peace and what terms And there's

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<v Speaker 3>a big internal argument within the administration over this conflict,

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm frequently asked, why are you a little down

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<v Speaker 3>on this summit? What do you think is not going

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<v Speaker 3>to happen or is not going to go very well?

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<v Speaker 3>First of all, the history of semetry with the Russians

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<v Speaker 3>is a fraud study. And the second is that you know,

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<v Speaker 3>these people will say, well, the President's negotiated conflict settlements

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<v Speaker 3>or at least ceasefires in Sub Saharan Africa, in Southern

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<v Speaker 3>South Asia and the Caucuses. What makes this one different?

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<v Speaker 3>And what I would say is that the the administration

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't seem to be of two minds on those conflicts. Indeed,

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<v Speaker 3>they seem to understand those conflicts within the parameters of

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<v Speaker 3>the conflict itself. When it comes to Ukraine Russia, there

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<v Speaker 3>is a big internal war over the very nature of

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<v Speaker 3>that conflict, who who the parties are, the belligerents are,

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<v Speaker 3>and what their motives are, and how deserving they are

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<v Speaker 3>of American support. And it has much more to do

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<v Speaker 3>with domestic politics than it has to do with the

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<v Speaker 3>actual conflict on the situation on the ground. Russia's grand

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<v Speaker 3>strategic interests in the region, NATO, all that seems to

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<v Speaker 3>be secondary and subordinate to the domestic interests that are

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<v Speaker 3>on one side of this conflict or the other, and

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<v Speaker 3>that's why it's been a very confused process. And then

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<v Speaker 3>they're going into anchorage with this confusion as opposed to

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<v Speaker 3>Russia's which is singularly focused on its objectives, which is

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<v Speaker 3>taking Ukraine either today, tomorrow, ten years from now. But

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<v Speaker 3>that is their grand strategic goal and they're pursuing it

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<v Speaker 3>with monomania in a way that I don't think this

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<v Speaker 3>administration quite is when it comes to it's a coach

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<v Speaker 3>to securing peace.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they wanted to end because warbad, et cetera. I

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<v Speaker 2>get that. But the thing of it is is you

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<v Speaker 2>give putin this slice of the Ukraine that he already occupies,

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<v Speaker 2>then think he just resets his clock and waits until

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<v Speaker 2>the next time that he can invalidate or renee gun

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<v Speaker 2>whatever he said before and give it another shot. And

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<v Speaker 2>Ukraine is reeling after years and years of this. What

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<v Speaker 2>do you think what do you think is going to happen? Is?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it?

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<v Speaker 7>Is it unrealistic to think, as so many did a while.

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<v Speaker 2>Ago, that the Ukraine was going to actually was going

418
00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:35.720
<v Speaker 2>to win, this was going to push Russia out, was

419
00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:37.359
<v Speaker 2>going to get crime up. I mean, there's a lot

420
00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:38.759
<v Speaker 2>to talk about that they're going to blow up the

421
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:40.160
<v Speaker 2>cursed bridge and they're going to get it back, and

422
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:42.519
<v Speaker 2>they're gonna cripple. I mean, Ukraine has done some absolutely

423
00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:44.799
<v Speaker 2>fantastic things in this war, and I've always been a

424
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:48.079
<v Speaker 2>supporter of them always. But are we getting to the

425
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.440
<v Speaker 2>point where the reality of Russian occupation is just simply

426
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:54.480
<v Speaker 2>going to have to be what is accepted going forward

427
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.839
<v Speaker 2>because the alternative is just bleeding the country white and

428
00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.200
<v Speaker 2>endless war. I don't know. Well.

429
00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:03.680
<v Speaker 3>I certainly reject the premise that acceptance is something the

430
00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:07.640
<v Speaker 3>United States or the West must acquiesce to. We didn't

431
00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:11.960
<v Speaker 3>recognize formally the Soviet occupation of the Baltics. At no

432
00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:15.559
<v Speaker 3>point we recognize governments in exile. That was an illegitimate

433
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:19.880
<v Speaker 3>occupation from nineteen forty one, I believe nineteen forty rather

434
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:25.880
<v Speaker 3>to nineteen ninety one. It would be a shift in

435
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:30.039
<v Speaker 3>American foreign policy to acknowledge, as Stephen Wikoff was playing

436
00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:33.839
<v Speaker 3>with earlier this year, the notion that the illegally annexed

437
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:37.960
<v Speaker 3>territories Crimea or the other four oblasts would be functionally

438
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.880
<v Speaker 3>Russian territory at no point should we acknowledge the legitimacy

439
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:44.880
<v Speaker 3>of those gains. Occupation maybe a de facto premise, but

440
00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:47.079
<v Speaker 3>it is not one we should certainly should accept. And

441
00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:50.240
<v Speaker 3>there's also those who are who are frankly, willfully ignorant

442
00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:54.240
<v Speaker 3>of diplomacy to the degree to which they say, what's

443
00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:57.880
<v Speaker 3>the big deal here? They're just talking, They're just sitting down.

444
00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:01.359
<v Speaker 3>What are the material consequence is from that, you war

445
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:04.720
<v Speaker 3>mongering lunatic. The material consequences of it are that the

446
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:10.160
<v Speaker 3>Russian government now sitting on American soil, enjoying the legitimacy

447
00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:13.599
<v Speaker 3>conveyed to the Russian government by the American presidency, says

448
00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:16.279
<v Speaker 3>and will say that it's diplomatic isolation as a result

449
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:19.119
<v Speaker 3>of the second invasion of Ukraine is over. And when

450
00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:21.960
<v Speaker 3>they say stuff like that, it indicates to the Russian

451
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.079
<v Speaker 3>markets that their long period in the cold is going

452
00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:26.640
<v Speaker 3>to be over pretty soon and we're going to be

453
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:29.839
<v Speaker 3>re into our economic segregation is over. When that happens,

454
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:32.839
<v Speaker 3>the Russian markets explode. They generate a lot of capital

455
00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:36.640
<v Speaker 3>capital that the Russian government can borrow against and undermine

456
00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:40.759
<v Speaker 3>the sanctions regime. So you're functionally contributing to the Russian coffers.

457
00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:43.359
<v Speaker 3>By doing stuff like this, which has a material impact

458
00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:45.680
<v Speaker 3>on the battlefield, we will see it. And that's the

459
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.160
<v Speaker 3>sort of thing that they just gloss over because they

460
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:51.640
<v Speaker 3>don't understand the subject on which they're opining. And I

461
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:53.559
<v Speaker 3>suspect that a lot of people are invested in that

462
00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:56.000
<v Speaker 3>sort of ignorance. Those who want to see peace come

463
00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:58.319
<v Speaker 3>whatever the cost agree.

464
00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:00.640
<v Speaker 2>But last question, I mean, I'm not sure there's so

465
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:05.519
<v Speaker 2>many people who are just what's the word I'm looking for.

466
00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:08.960
<v Speaker 2>They don't care exactly about the nationhood of Ukraine. They

467
00:24:09.160 --> 00:24:11.799
<v Speaker 2>don't care, they don't Why are we even talking about this?

468
00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:14.160
<v Speaker 2>Why is this conflict important? And I think it's important

469
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:16.240
<v Speaker 2>because of Russian ambitions. I think it's important because of

470
00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:18.359
<v Speaker 2>looking at what Russia is casting its eye elsewhere, and

471
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:20.000
<v Speaker 2>they hasn't been able to do so because they've been

472
00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:23.440
<v Speaker 2>tied down. And I think it's also strange to grant them,

473
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:26.279
<v Speaker 2>as you say, the diplomatic legitimacy at a point where

474
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:29.880
<v Speaker 2>it becomes apparent that yeah, we can do business. Why

475
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:32.839
<v Speaker 2>would you want to integrate Russia back into the European economy?

476
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Why would you want to make Europe more dependent dependent

477
00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:40.359
<v Speaker 2>again on Russian fuel. What is the disadvantage to freezing

478
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:43.240
<v Speaker 2>them out at every possible opportunity as a display of

479
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:47.480
<v Speaker 2>American soft power and economic power. Why cozy up now

480
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:50.400
<v Speaker 2>and I'll stop them. I'm not a question, I'm just ranting.

481
00:24:50.440 --> 00:24:51.920
<v Speaker 2>So maybe I should give it to somebody else.

482
00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:57.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't quite know. I mean, the scenario here

483
00:24:57.160 --> 00:25:01.880
<v Speaker 3>that makes me nervous is that the prelude to Ukraine

484
00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:05.839
<v Speaker 3>War III consists of something like the Mensk Agreements. These

485
00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:08.000
<v Speaker 3>two agreements, the first of which wasn't worth the paper

486
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:10.519
<v Speaker 3>it was written on. The Russians never observed it and

487
00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:13.119
<v Speaker 3>kept taking territory afterwards, the second of which was also

488
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:15.440
<v Speaker 3>never observed, but at least the line of contact held.

489
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:17.880
<v Speaker 3>It was never quiet, it was always hot all the

490
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:20.319
<v Speaker 3>way up into twenty twenty two. But that's the condition

491
00:25:20.359 --> 00:25:23.279
<v Speaker 3>that we would see, and that resulted in a more

492
00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:26.599
<v Speaker 3>security guarantees to Europe, not less. I mean that was

493
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:29.640
<v Speaker 3>preceded the Crimean invasion in twenty fourteen was preceded months

494
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:33.519
<v Speaker 3>earlier by Obama removing the very last armored division from

495
00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.359
<v Speaker 3>European soil since World War Two, as well as many

496
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:39.039
<v Speaker 3>other divisions we had just been withdrawing from Europe in

497
00:25:39.079 --> 00:25:42.160
<v Speaker 3>our forever quest to pivot to Asia. The desire to

498
00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:44.559
<v Speaker 3>pivot to Asia at the expense of the European theater

499
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:47.599
<v Speaker 3>makes the European theater more hot and results in more

500
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.759
<v Speaker 3>commitments to Europe's security, not less, And that's what we

501
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:53.759
<v Speaker 3>would see. We would see a NATO alliance, particularly members

502
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:55.920
<v Speaker 3>on the frontier, get very very nervous, very very jumpy

503
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:59.000
<v Speaker 3>about their security and keeping the thirty three member states

504
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:01.799
<v Speaker 3>in line is the or most job of prima enter paris,

505
00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:04.440
<v Speaker 3>the United States the first among equals in the NATO Alliance,

506
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:07.160
<v Speaker 3>and so we would see a lot of disunion and

507
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:09.400
<v Speaker 3>perhaps a little bit of adventurism on the part of

508
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:11.960
<v Speaker 3>some of our allies on the NATO frontier, which would

509
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:14.599
<v Speaker 3>force us to put more troops into the NATO frontier

510
00:26:14.599 --> 00:26:17.720
<v Speaker 3>to satisfy our NATO allies. But the big scenario that

511
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:20.119
<v Speaker 3>really keeps me up at night is not a fold

512
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:23.359
<v Speaker 3>a gap style invasion of Europe. I don't think Russia

513
00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:26.799
<v Speaker 3>has that capacity. What they could do make an attempt

514
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.839
<v Speaker 3>is to destabilize Estonia. Take a little chunk of Estonia

515
00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.480
<v Speaker 3>and say de facto situation on the ground, deal with it,

516
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:36.400
<v Speaker 3>or maybe even get more ambitious and attempt to establish

517
00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:40.920
<v Speaker 3>a land bridge between Russia proper and Kaliningrad, East Prussia

518
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.799
<v Speaker 3>as we all remember it. And that's the sort of

519
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:48.559
<v Speaker 3>thing that's really scary because they could very well do that,

520
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:54.200
<v Speaker 3>and then Berlin and Paris and Ottawa and Washington and

521
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:56.880
<v Speaker 3>London are all confronted with the die for Danzig scenario.

522
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.640
<v Speaker 3>Do you really want to risk no conflict with a

523
00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:02.000
<v Speaker 3>nuclear on power over tiny tollin.

524
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:04.960
<v Speaker 2>Like an origami lesson? Right?

525
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:08.680
<v Speaker 1>So Noah, it's Steve Hayward out in Gavin Newsom stand

526
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:13.039
<v Speaker 1>as I call my miserable home state. Look, here's the

527
00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:16.839
<v Speaker 1>difficulty is that most people who will be listening to

528
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:19.519
<v Speaker 1>this podcast, after we know the results, or least some

529
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:22.359
<v Speaker 1>of the results, it may be literally years before we

530
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:25.160
<v Speaker 1>know everything that passes behind closed doors today. So I

531
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:28.519
<v Speaker 1>want to use the Ukraine situation today to draw you

532
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:30.480
<v Speaker 1>out onto a broader scene of the world and about

533
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.960
<v Speaker 1>Trump too. This caused a little bit of setup. When

534
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:37.759
<v Speaker 1>I heard that they were going to be meeting in Anchorage, Alaska.

535
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:40.519
<v Speaker 1>I go in maybe too much for historical analogies, but

536
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:43.359
<v Speaker 1>I immediately thought of the hastily arranged summit which was

537
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:46.279
<v Speaker 1>not a summit between Reagan and Garbachov in nineteen eighty

538
00:27:46.359 --> 00:27:50.480
<v Speaker 1>six in Reikubc, and of course you remember there Reagan

539
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:55.279
<v Speaker 1>walked out against the intransit demands of the Soviet leaders

540
00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:59.000
<v Speaker 1>when they offered him a deal that he really wanted,

541
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:02.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, deep cuts in nuclear weapons. There are a

542
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:05.880
<v Speaker 1>couple of differences. One of them is this time unlike Reagan, Remember,

543
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:09.759
<v Speaker 1>Reagan really blindsided our allies, especially Margaret Thatcher. They were

544
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.359
<v Speaker 1>very upset that that deal nearly happened without consulting them.

545
00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:15.319
<v Speaker 1>We know that Trump spent a lot of time on

546
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:17.359
<v Speaker 1>the phone with the NATO leaders in the last few

547
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:21.119
<v Speaker 1>days working out red lines and so forth. We know

548
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:23.680
<v Speaker 1>that very interesting Wall Street Journal story that I don't

549
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:25.799
<v Speaker 1>know if you saw, about how Trump is very close

550
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:29.039
<v Speaker 1>to the president of Finland, who seems to be a

551
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:31.440
<v Speaker 1>pretty solid guy, a right of center person, which I

552
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:35.680
<v Speaker 1>didn't know Scandinavia had in any case. So I am

553
00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:38.680
<v Speaker 1>hoping and now again people will know, maybe by the

554
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:42.599
<v Speaker 1>time they're listening to us, that if Putin tries to

555
00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:45.680
<v Speaker 1>play Trump the way Gorbachev did Reagan, that Trump will

556
00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:48.359
<v Speaker 1>do the same thing. He will walk out also angry

557
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:51.519
<v Speaker 1>like Reagan did, but who knows, there are some other

558
00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:54.240
<v Speaker 1>aspects that encourage me a little bit, And that's what

559
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:57.519
<v Speaker 1>gets me to a broader question. You know, just watching Trump,

560
00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:01.119
<v Speaker 1>he's still Trump. He's very mercurial. As you say, he

561
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:04.599
<v Speaker 1>still fit to contradictory outbursts. You know, one day you're

562
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:06.480
<v Speaker 1>the worst person in the world and the next day

563
00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:10.039
<v Speaker 1>you're the second coming of Gandhi. But on the whole,

564
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:13.880
<v Speaker 1>he seems generally more comfortable in his own skin, a

565
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:17.200
<v Speaker 1>little more tempered, I guess, i'd say about our relations

566
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:20.160
<v Speaker 1>with our allies, it just seems he has act more together.

567
00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:22.799
<v Speaker 1>So I love if you comment on what your impressions

568
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:24.839
<v Speaker 1>are of Trump too generally, and then from there I'd

569
00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:26.160
<v Speaker 1>like to move on to the Middle East.

570
00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:31.920
<v Speaker 3>Sure, so Trump too in his second term when it

571
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:35.440
<v Speaker 3>comes to foreign policy is hard to gauge because the

572
00:29:35.480 --> 00:29:39.960
<v Speaker 3>first two months I was horrified frankly by his performance,

573
00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:44.119
<v Speaker 3>and then the subsequent several months we're very encouraging and

574
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:49.000
<v Speaker 3>diametrically opposed to the administration's approach to our adversaries and

575
00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:53.839
<v Speaker 3>allies in those initial two months, So you have to

576
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:57.599
<v Speaker 3>take it all with all in total, in some and

577
00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:01.359
<v Speaker 3>sort of that prevents me from issue grander verdicts because

578
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:03.559
<v Speaker 3>I just need more inputs, I need more information before

579
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:05.839
<v Speaker 3>I were to render a verdict. Then when we talk

580
00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:07.599
<v Speaker 3>about the Middle East, I suspect they'll be far more

581
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:13.839
<v Speaker 3>complimentary to the administration's approach when it comes to this conflict.

582
00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:17.839
<v Speaker 3>In particular, the Putin regime and the negotiators are going

583
00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:20.160
<v Speaker 3>to put a variety of scenarios to the President. There

584
00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:24.400
<v Speaker 3>could be a ceasefire with some modest land swaps that

585
00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:26.640
<v Speaker 3>Russians don't want a modest landslap, they want a huge

586
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:29.400
<v Speaker 3>one at landswap. They want a part of don Bass

587
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:32.000
<v Speaker 3>which is very heavily fortified, including some industrial towns that

588
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:33.720
<v Speaker 3>they couldn't take on the battlefield and would be very

589
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:36.079
<v Speaker 3>difficult to take back. But also something along the lines

590
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:39.359
<v Speaker 3>of an air cease fire, which would also beneficial to

591
00:30:39.799 --> 00:30:42.640
<v Speaker 3>Moscow because while it's raining rockets and drones down on

592
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:47.240
<v Speaker 3>Ukrainian population centers, Ukraine is targeting infrastructure sites like Russia's

593
00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:52.200
<v Speaker 3>petroleum processing facilities, which are very difficult to put back together.

594
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:54.079
<v Speaker 3>You can build an apartment building in a year, it's

595
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:57.640
<v Speaker 3>not that easy to rebuild a petroleum refining facility. So

596
00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:00.759
<v Speaker 3>all these are all things that sound really reasonable, but

597
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:04.440
<v Speaker 3>would also advantage the Russian position more than the Ukrainian position.

598
00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:06.519
<v Speaker 3>And that's the sort of thing that I'm worried. The

599
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:10.119
<v Speaker 3>Reikievik scenario. I mean, Ronald Reagan was just frankly frustrated

600
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:11.680
<v Speaker 3>and very mad when he had to walk away from

601
00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:13.920
<v Speaker 3>the table. It was one of his best moments. But

602
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:16.720
<v Speaker 3>I submit that he shouldn't been approaching the Russians with

603
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:19.480
<v Speaker 3>the kind of disarmament agreements that he was seeking. He

604
00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:22.279
<v Speaker 3>was very wide eyed and ideological about disarmament, and he

605
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:25.880
<v Speaker 3>was also attached to SDI and missile defense technologies, and

606
00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:28.119
<v Speaker 3>when the Russians said, don't research that sort of thing,

607
00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:30.200
<v Speaker 3>he got up and walked away. Good for him, But

608
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:31.640
<v Speaker 3>the very virtue of the fact that he had that

609
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:33.480
<v Speaker 3>summit in the first place was an embarrassment that, as

610
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:36.400
<v Speaker 3>you said, the Europeans came down on him, the press

611
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:39.519
<v Speaker 3>came down on him, and cemetry with the Russians is

612
00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:41.640
<v Speaker 3>fraught in that way. Joe Biden was burned in the

613
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:44.440
<v Speaker 3>same way. Russian troops were building up on Ukraine's borders

614
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:46.319
<v Speaker 3>in twenty twenty one. He said, let's have a summit,

615
00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:50.200
<v Speaker 3>and then four months later, Buttna'm sorry. Eight months later

616
00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.119
<v Speaker 3>the Russians invaded. Make Putin look like an idiot or

617
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:56.640
<v Speaker 3>Biden looked like an idiot? Nineteen sixty both of them.

618
00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:01.200
<v Speaker 3>Nineteen sixty one, Kennedy goes to Vienna and is land

619
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:05.480
<v Speaker 3>basted by Khrushcheff gets into this high minded ideological argument

620
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:08.680
<v Speaker 3>about the tenets of Marxism, is on his back foot,

621
00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:11.680
<v Speaker 3>and then concedes that the Sino Soviet Alliance ISS functionally

622
00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:14.160
<v Speaker 3>has military parody with the United States. And then three

623
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:16.119
<v Speaker 3>months later the Berlin Wall goes up, and a year

624
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:19.000
<v Speaker 3>later we have offensive nuclear weapons in Cuba. These sort

625
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:22.119
<v Speaker 3>of things matter if they go wrong. They matter historically.

626
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:25.880
<v Speaker 3>And I wonder if this administration is as of single

627
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:28.400
<v Speaker 3>minded when it goes to the negotiating table as the

628
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:29.160
<v Speaker 3>Russians will be.

629
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:29.880
<v Speaker 5>I suspect not.

630
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:33.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, we'll just have to see what happens, and

631
00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:35.559
<v Speaker 1>thank you for your attention to this matter. As Trump

632
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:38.079
<v Speaker 1>likes to say, let's switch to the Middle East a bit,

633
00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:41.000
<v Speaker 1>because I know, I know you follow that closer than

634
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:43.839
<v Speaker 1>just about anybody. I guess. I'd say as a general

635
00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:47.720
<v Speaker 1>proposition that Trump has been pretty robust and consistent in

636
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:50.680
<v Speaker 1>the support with Israel, with of course the occasional outburst

637
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:52.680
<v Speaker 1>at net and Yahoo, because that's just what Trump is.

638
00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:52.839
<v Speaker 5>Like.

639
00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:56.599
<v Speaker 1>What I worry about right now is two things. One

640
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:02.720
<v Speaker 1>is there's this massive propaganda campaign about starvation and genocide

641
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:05.039
<v Speaker 1>in Gaza, all of which is nonsense, but which a

642
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:07.480
<v Speaker 1>lot of conservatives are buying into, or maybe not a lot,

643
00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:10.559
<v Speaker 1>but too many. You know, the American Conservative magazine, which

644
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:12.640
<v Speaker 1>I used to read because I thought had interesting stuff,

645
00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:15.160
<v Speaker 1>has gone full anti Israel in the last couple of months.

646
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:18.200
<v Speaker 1>And then you have a couple of our key allies

647
00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:21.720
<v Speaker 1>saying we're going to recognize a Palestinian state. And I

648
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.359
<v Speaker 1>haven't followed whether Trump has said anything about that. I'm

649
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:27.599
<v Speaker 1>kind of disappointed. If he hasn't that that maybe I

650
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:29.960
<v Speaker 1>missed it, but it seems to me that that ought

651
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:33.720
<v Speaker 1>to call for some pretty direct and forceful condemnation by

652
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:36.839
<v Speaker 1>our government with some consequences. I think, I mean, we're

653
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:40.759
<v Speaker 1>threatening people in the UN who don't take anti American positions.

654
00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:44.680
<v Speaker 1>I think this merits at least equivalent treatment. But so

655
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:47.200
<v Speaker 1>give us your grade or give us a two or three.

656
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:51.680
<v Speaker 1>Noah Rothman Summary Assessments of where that scene stands right now.

657
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:55.000
<v Speaker 3>Well, just a quick note on the recognition of a

658
00:33:55.039 --> 00:34:02.440
<v Speaker 3>Palestinian state? Which Palestinian state? Right are we recognizing? These

659
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:06.400
<v Speaker 3>are non contiguous territories with very distinct governments, which, by

660
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:08.159
<v Speaker 3>the way, are at one another's throat when they get

661
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:12.360
<v Speaker 3>the opportunity. They have different foreign policies, different economies, different

662
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:15.360
<v Speaker 3>relations with Israel. So which one are we recognizing? And

663
00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:18.000
<v Speaker 3>if you're recognizing the whole of these territories as one

664
00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:22.480
<v Speaker 3>single Palestinian entity, are we then immediately sanctioning that recognized

665
00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:25.559
<v Speaker 3>Palestinian entity for being governed by a lawless terrorist group,

666
00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:27.599
<v Speaker 3>which you acknowledge is a terrorist group with European and

667
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:31.320
<v Speaker 3>American blood on its hands. It's a very foolish proposition.

668
00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:34.039
<v Speaker 3>It's not a foreign policy it's a temper tantrum, and

669
00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:35.920
<v Speaker 3>it is one I agree s tot even that should

670
00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:38.480
<v Speaker 3>be met with condemnation from the US government and probably

671
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:41.400
<v Speaker 3>a few disincentives to engage in this sort of thing.

672
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:44.119
<v Speaker 3>The President's conduct when it comes to foreign policy in

673
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:49.039
<v Speaker 3>the Middle East has been generally laudatory from my perspective.

674
00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:53.440
<v Speaker 3>The attack on Iranian nuclear sites was we were told

675
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:58.599
<v Speaker 3>supposed to beget gottardam Room, and we have not seen that,

676
00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:02.039
<v Speaker 3>perhaps because as the conditions on the ground had changed

677
00:35:02.119 --> 00:35:06.360
<v Speaker 3>so dramatically over the course of Russia rather Israel's war

678
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:10.920
<v Speaker 3>against the Seven Armies that ringed Israel. The ring of

679
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:15.880
<v Speaker 3>fire that was the Iranian military proxy network decimated systematically

680
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:18.360
<v Speaker 3>over the course of the war that Hamas started on

681
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:22.119
<v Speaker 3>ten to seven, and as such we had a much

682
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:26.679
<v Speaker 3>more limited capacity for Iran to engage in retaliatory strikes.

683
00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:29.079
<v Speaker 3>This was the window of opportunity, and the President took

684
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:32.360
<v Speaker 3>the absolute made the most of it in ways that

685
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:35.440
<v Speaker 3>are very salutary, I think. And the very fact that

686
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:37.880
<v Speaker 3>it has not begat the kind of response that a

687
00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:41.400
<v Speaker 3>lot of the handwringers expected, or perhaps even hoped for

688
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:43.880
<v Speaker 3>in a perverse way, if only to justify their opposition

689
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:47.320
<v Speaker 3>to this sort of thing, is an example of the

690
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:53.360
<v Speaker 3>kind of intuitively I'm sorry, not intuitive, the opposite of intuitive,

691
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:58.079
<v Speaker 3>non intuitive approach to foreign policy that has been discouraged

692
00:35:58.119 --> 00:36:02.239
<v Speaker 3>by the Foreign Policy Apparatus and Abraham Accords are also

693
00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:05.679
<v Speaker 3>illustrative of that didn't exactly spring from Donald Trump's forehead,

694
00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:07.760
<v Speaker 3>and there have been think tanks that have been working

695
00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:10.239
<v Speaker 3>on this for a long time, but the notion that

696
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:12.400
<v Speaker 3>you could do one of tooth. You could do two

697
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.440
<v Speaker 3>things to unlock a new dynamic in the Middle East.

698
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:18.039
<v Speaker 3>The first is to push the Palestinian issue to the

699
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:20.679
<v Speaker 3>back burner. Don't deal with that first, as the peace

700
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:23.760
<v Speaker 3>protestors insist, you had to deal with it last, and

701
00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:27.360
<v Speaker 3>then refocus the entire region, especially the Sunni States, on

702
00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:32.719
<v Speaker 3>the threat posed by Iran and it's Scheite militias, which Egypt,

703
00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:36.079
<v Speaker 3>the UAE, Saudi Arabia, all of which we're engaged in

704
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:40.920
<v Speaker 3>this somewhat quiet cold war hot conflict, and all that

705
00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:44.239
<v Speaker 3>sort of unlocked this diplomatic and military cooperation with Israel.

706
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:46.719
<v Speaker 3>It created a new dynamic in this region that would

707
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:49.320
<v Speaker 3>not have been realized in the absence of American leadership.

708
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:51.719
<v Speaker 3>I think we're seeing some of that here with the

709
00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:55.000
<v Speaker 3>dynamic between Israel and Iran and the United States. There's

710
00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:57.320
<v Speaker 3>a lot of political pressure, as you say, on the

711
00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:00.119
<v Speaker 3>West in particular, as a result of this propagand and

712
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:03.719
<v Speaker 3>distic campaign which alleges that Israel engage is engaged in

713
00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:09.800
<v Speaker 3>the most cartoonishly evil campaign of em miseration and genocidal

714
00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:14.280
<v Speaker 3>reprisals against civilians that you could imagine, the motives for

715
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:18.880
<v Speaker 3>this are allided. Nobody ever really describes what Israel gets

716
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:21.639
<v Speaker 3>out of the deal. How does how does it end

717
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:25.639
<v Speaker 3>up with this, you know, placid condition in which everybody's

718
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:28.760
<v Speaker 3>ethnically cleansed because they've starved and murdered them all. I mean,

719
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:31.599
<v Speaker 3>the population seems rather stable, so they're doing a terrible job,

720
00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:36.079
<v Speaker 3>as Genisi dares. But nevertheless, I mean, it's just assumed

721
00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:38.559
<v Speaker 3>on the part of people who assume the worst of Israel,

722
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:41.440
<v Speaker 3>that that this is what's going on. It's taken at

723
00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:44.199
<v Speaker 3>face value, and it's an extraordinary claim that lacks the

724
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:47.079
<v Speaker 3>extraordinary evidence you should have to support it. And the

725
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:50.880
<v Speaker 3>president deserves a lot of credit for just bucking And

726
00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:52.360
<v Speaker 3>this is one of the things that he does very

727
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:54.480
<v Speaker 3>well because he is he's so on the outside when

728
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:57.119
<v Speaker 3>it comes to the conventional wisdom, be it cultural or

729
00:37:57.119 --> 00:38:00.039
<v Speaker 3>political or foreign policy's, he's rather suspicious of it and

730
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.639
<v Speaker 3>often contemptuous of it, and sometimes it serves him well,

731
00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:04.599
<v Speaker 3>and in particularly the Middle East, it has served him

732
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:07.000
<v Speaker 3>very well. Donald Trump will go down in history as

733
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:11.519
<v Speaker 3>someone who presided over a revolutionary change in the geopolitical

734
00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:14.280
<v Speaker 3>situation in the Middle East for good or for ill,

735
00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:16.519
<v Speaker 3>and I think mostly for good. But it's all because

736
00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:18.880
<v Speaker 3>he approached it in a way that was really contemptuous

737
00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:24.599
<v Speaker 3>of the staid and unchallenged assumptions that had calcified in

738
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:26.960
<v Speaker 3>the American foreign policy establishment over decades.

739
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:33.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I give up, Charles. You try to draw this

740
00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:36.079
<v Speaker 2>guy out because we're coming up with nothing.

741
00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:39.119
<v Speaker 3>Am I not performing to expectations here?

742
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:40.559
<v Speaker 5>I know you know who I am.

743
00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:43.280
<v Speaker 6>I've heard of you because we work together, and in

744
00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:45.880
<v Speaker 6>fact to hung out together forty five minutes ago to

745
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:49.559
<v Speaker 6>do the other podcast, which you should listen to. I

746
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:54.559
<v Speaker 6>have a question that is broad and we can zoom

747
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:59.480
<v Speaker 6>all the way out into spice. Tim Curry would say,

748
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:06.840
<v Speaker 6>I don't obscure rep I get it. How dangerous is

749
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:15.039
<v Speaker 6>the world because the prevailing view of younger people seems

750
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:17.480
<v Speaker 6>to be that everything is.

751
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:20.119
<v Speaker 5>Very dramatic at the moment and.

752
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:23.440
<v Speaker 6>America has never been like this, and the world has

753
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:29.320
<v Speaker 6>never been like this. And I'm habitually and reflexively hostile

754
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:32.880
<v Speaker 6>to these claims because my great grandfather fought in World

755
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:35.039
<v Speaker 6>War One and then lived through the depression that my

756
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:37.079
<v Speaker 6>other grandfather's fought in World War two.

757
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:38.440
<v Speaker 5>And then they live through.

758
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:40.960
<v Speaker 6>The people of the fifties and sixties, and I just

759
00:39:41.079 --> 00:39:46.039
<v Speaker 6>am not persuaded. On the other hand, we have got

760
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:48.880
<v Speaker 6>wars going on, and there is a situation in Israel,

761
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:52.320
<v Speaker 6>and that's the prospect in the Pacific of an invasion

762
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:55.239
<v Speaker 6>of Taiwan and China really is a threat. So and

763
00:39:55.559 --> 00:40:01.199
<v Speaker 6>how dangerous are things relative to any point you want.

764
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:05.320
<v Speaker 3>To pick in history, Well, let's start one hundred and

765
00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:06.840
<v Speaker 3>twenty five years ago. Let's just start at the turn

766
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:11.679
<v Speaker 3>of the century. The if you look on you know,

767
00:40:11.719 --> 00:40:13.639
<v Speaker 3>if everything's relative. But if you were to plot on

768
00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:16.480
<v Speaker 3>a graph casualties from warfare, you would find the prior

769
00:40:16.519 --> 00:40:19.559
<v Speaker 3>to October seventh, the wars in October seventh that began then,

770
00:40:19.960 --> 00:40:22.280
<v Speaker 3>or let's say, prior to to the Ukrainian invasion of

771
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:26.400
<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty two, you've seen fewer casualties from warfare and

772
00:40:26.920 --> 00:40:32.039
<v Speaker 3>battlefield conflict. Then in the whole of going back into

773
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:34.800
<v Speaker 3>you know, the treaty was failure to the extent that

774
00:40:34.840 --> 00:40:37.159
<v Speaker 3>we have actual numbers, and we do to a certain

775
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:42.960
<v Speaker 3>degree about battlefield casualties. The condition that was that arose

776
00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:48.920
<v Speaker 3>amid American hegemony, unquestioned superpower status across the planet Earth

777
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:53.920
<v Speaker 3>was one of unparalleled peace, unparalleled safety and security. The

778
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:58.079
<v Speaker 3>human species had never known that kind of security. And

779
00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:04.480
<v Speaker 3>there are basically three dynamics that typify the geopolitical landscape

780
00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:07.960
<v Speaker 3>since that period. The first is the one that we're

781
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:10.800
<v Speaker 3>experiencing now, US hegemony the United States. For all of

782
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:15.480
<v Speaker 3>China's rising power capacity and what have you, it cannot yet,

783
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:18.519
<v Speaker 3>to the extent that we understand it project power across

784
00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:22.039
<v Speaker 3>its borders in a sustained way. We haven't seen that yet.

785
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:25.440
<v Speaker 3>It might, but it hasn't attempted that. It certainly can't

786
00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:28.079
<v Speaker 3>project power across the other side of the planet Earth

787
00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:30.400
<v Speaker 3>in a sustained way. No other power on Earth can

788
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:34.880
<v Speaker 3>but us. The second dynamic is bipolarity, which is roughly

789
00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:40.480
<v Speaker 3>what defined the Cold War period between roughly equal superpowers,

790
00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:43.280
<v Speaker 3>the United States and its allies and the Soviet Union

791
00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:45.760
<v Speaker 3>and its allies. And that was a very bloody time.

792
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:47.960
<v Speaker 3>It was a very dangerous time. That's not to say

793
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:51.639
<v Speaker 3>it was unstable, and I think that stability is largely

794
00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:55.960
<v Speaker 3>a result of the existence of our respective nuclear arsenals.

795
00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:59.199
<v Speaker 3>But to the degree to which the United States and

796
00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:02.239
<v Speaker 3>Soviet Union fought proxy battles across the planet Earth, many

797
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:04.400
<v Speaker 3>of which were very bloody, many of which had absolutely

798
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:09.239
<v Speaker 3>no concern for the individual civilians and the proxy forces

799
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:12.599
<v Speaker 3>that were fighting on our behalves, and Cuba to a

800
00:42:12.679 --> 00:42:16.119
<v Speaker 3>lesser extent, if you look at Angola, that was a

801
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:20.320
<v Speaker 3>far more unstable condition if you want to just measure

802
00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:23.599
<v Speaker 3>a geopolitical stability in terms of the number of people

803
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:25.280
<v Speaker 3>dying in the number of wars that were being fought.

804
00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:28.519
<v Speaker 3>And the third dynamic is multipolarity, and that's when you

805
00:42:28.599 --> 00:42:33.280
<v Speaker 3>have multiple geopolitical polls that have rough a parody between

806
00:42:33.320 --> 00:42:37.440
<v Speaker 3>each other militarily, economically. That is the least stable dynamic,

807
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:41.119
<v Speaker 3>but it is the least predictable dynamic. And to the

808
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:44.360
<v Speaker 3>degree that we're entering into a multipolar world when it

809
00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:47.559
<v Speaker 3>comes to nuclear power, that is one that is that's

810
00:42:47.559 --> 00:42:51.880
<v Speaker 3>a very disconcerting dynamic because there are just more variables

811
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:55.360
<v Speaker 3>at play and more powers that have the capacity to

812
00:42:55.400 --> 00:42:59.599
<v Speaker 3>alter their geopolitical environments. But we've experienced nothing like even

813
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:03.679
<v Speaker 3>during the Cold War period. Well, we've experienced nothing like

814
00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:07.280
<v Speaker 3>the kind of violence and the prospect for violence that

815
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:10.119
<v Speaker 3>we had during the multipolar period, in which you had

816
00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:14.719
<v Speaker 3>a variety of states that had inviolable spheres of influence

817
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:19.159
<v Speaker 3>that were policed and that you could not penetrate. For example.

818
00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:23.360
<v Speaker 3>Now just say this, the global economic marketplace that we

819
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:27.519
<v Speaker 3>have now is a pretty new invention. It actually coincided

820
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:32.199
<v Speaker 3>with another new invention, which is roughly Hyeki and Milton

821
00:43:32.199 --> 00:43:36.679
<v Speaker 3>Friedman's conception of what should be market economics. These are

822
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:39.599
<v Speaker 3>all pretty new things. We talk about these things like

823
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:42.719
<v Speaker 3>they're ancient ideas that were just you know that the

824
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:47.800
<v Speaker 3>wisdom of Adam Smith and you know Montesquieu, was this

825
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:50.000
<v Speaker 3>this vision of the world that we're living in today.

826
00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:50.440
<v Speaker 2>It was not.

827
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:53.840
<v Speaker 3>It was basically built in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties,

828
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:58.119
<v Speaker 3>but within my lifetime it's pretty new. The old condition

829
00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:03.960
<v Speaker 3>is state control of economics, state intervention in cultural affairs,

830
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:08.280
<v Speaker 3>and a variety of spheres of influence that locked powers

831
00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:12.280
<v Speaker 3>out of their their backyards, of a great powers backyard.

832
00:44:12.320 --> 00:44:16.679
<v Speaker 3>So we had something like a global economic system in

833
00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:20.280
<v Speaker 3>nineteen fourteen close to it, and it was basically just

834
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:23.199
<v Speaker 3>European colonial possessions trading with one another, as well as

835
00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:26.119
<v Speaker 3>the United States and Canada, and then we didn't have

836
00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:30.679
<v Speaker 3>that until nineteen ninety one. There was no mark global

837
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:34.039
<v Speaker 3>market until for the most of the twentieth century. So

838
00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:37.039
<v Speaker 3>all this stuff is pretty new and very fragile. But

839
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:39.159
<v Speaker 3>it is the case that the world that we're living

840
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:42.960
<v Speaker 3>in today is relative in relative terms, the safest, the

841
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:46.519
<v Speaker 3>most stable, the most predictable, and therefore was something that

842
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:51.519
<v Speaker 3>you should just fall on your knees and thank the

843
00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:54.239
<v Speaker 3>fates that delivered you into this time and history, and

844
00:44:54.280 --> 00:44:56.280
<v Speaker 3>in my view, have some gratitude for it and work

845
00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:58.519
<v Speaker 3>to preserve it. And I see quite a lot of

846
00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:00.599
<v Speaker 3>people who just look upon this as though it was

847
00:45:01.639 --> 00:45:05.639
<v Speaker 3>this condition that our grandfathers and fathers fought and died

848
00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:07.639
<v Speaker 3>for in order to bequeath it to us. There's just

849
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:10.119
<v Speaker 3>a lot of ingratitude for it and the assumption that

850
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:13.599
<v Speaker 3>something better is available on the horizon. I just don't

851
00:45:13.639 --> 00:45:16.000
<v Speaker 3>know what that is, and I fear that toying with

852
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:20.440
<v Speaker 3>the status quo, as the revisionist powers are, and as

853
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:23.119
<v Speaker 3>some people who want to retreat behind American shores would

854
00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:26.559
<v Speaker 3>like to do themselves, we'll just beget a more unstable

855
00:45:26.559 --> 00:45:29.880
<v Speaker 3>world and hasten our descent into a multipolar world in

856
00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:33.400
<v Speaker 3>which spheres of influencer once again the dominant condition and

857
00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:34.719
<v Speaker 3>the geopolitical landscape.

858
00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Ahistorical ingratitude is one of the things I hate the most,

859
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:39.039
<v Speaker 2>and there's so much of it today. But on the

860
00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:41.719
<v Speaker 2>other hand, I was watching Twitter today. I'm sorry X.

861
00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:44.360
<v Speaker 2>There was an appalling video of somebody who traveled a

862
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:47.599
<v Speaker 2>very long distance to go to a conference an outdoor celebration.

863
00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:51.039
<v Speaker 2>It was even LGBTQ plus to a spirit friendly, but

864
00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:53.840
<v Speaker 2>they've been denied entrance because the people at the gate

865
00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:58.239
<v Speaker 2>had deemed her braid to be a cultural appropriation. She

866
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:00.599
<v Speaker 2>insisted that actually know it was Viking. They said, no,

867
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:03.679
<v Speaker 2>it's Rostafarian, and since we're all about having a welcoming

868
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:05.880
<v Speaker 2>and inclusive thing here, we cannot allow you to enter

869
00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:08.280
<v Speaker 2>with the braids that some people might regard as a

870
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:11.400
<v Speaker 2>cultural appropriation. Oddly enough, none of these people looked like

871
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:13.960
<v Speaker 2>they'd be any fun to be around ever, aside from

872
00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:17.039
<v Speaker 2>the here and the septum rings. But it reminded me

873
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:18.320
<v Speaker 2>that there's a man who wrote a book called The

874
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:20.519
<v Speaker 2>Rise of the New Puritans and fighting back at the

875
00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:22.599
<v Speaker 2>Progressives war on fund and if I were to have

876
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:25.239
<v Speaker 2>him on the show, he might give a preseason this book.

877
00:46:25.239 --> 00:46:26.960
<v Speaker 2>They would encourage people to go out and bite it

878
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:29.159
<v Speaker 2>in the very global marketplace at which he had spoken.

879
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:29.559
<v Speaker 2>Could that be?

880
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:31.199
<v Speaker 5>You know, it could be.

881
00:46:32.199 --> 00:46:35.079
<v Speaker 3>I can either confirm nor deny, but do seem to

882
00:46:35.079 --> 00:46:36.599
<v Speaker 3>have a lot of information to this effect.

883
00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:37.599
<v Speaker 5>So will I do?

884
00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:38.400
<v Speaker 6>Well?

885
00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:40.960
<v Speaker 1>Noah, you wrote that book at the high tide of wokeness.

886
00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:42.760
<v Speaker 1>I think. Didn't it come out in twenty twenty one

887
00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:43.559
<v Speaker 1>or twenty twenty.

888
00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:45.920
<v Speaker 3>It came out in the summer of twenty twenty two,

889
00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:48.159
<v Speaker 3>and I will tell you the fates conspired against it

890
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:50.800
<v Speaker 3>because just about two weeks or a week and a

891
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:54.840
<v Speaker 3>half before release date, the Dobbs decision was leaked. The

892
00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:57.760
<v Speaker 3>entire media apparatus was on fire with the notion that

893
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:00.960
<v Speaker 3>the Republicans were trying to force you do not have sex,

894
00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:04.000
<v Speaker 3>as though that had anything to do with the decision.

895
00:47:04.039 --> 00:47:06.559
<v Speaker 3>But this was this was what the media was saying

896
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:10.599
<v Speaker 3>on MSNBCS, which made my book tour rather difficult. So

897
00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:13.519
<v Speaker 3>my third is it will encounter fewer headwinds.

898
00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:16.519
<v Speaker 1>Well, my quick question, which I say quick question, it's

899
00:47:16.599 --> 00:47:19.360
<v Speaker 1>not we're running short of time, so it calls for

900
00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:21.480
<v Speaker 1>a brief answer. But it does seem to me that

901
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:24.559
<v Speaker 1>the tide has turned notably generally. But because Trump is

902
00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:28.599
<v Speaker 1>leading a ferocious counter attack against Woker in general. What

903
00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:30.679
<v Speaker 1>kind of grade you give him on that or how

904
00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:31.360
<v Speaker 1>things are going.

905
00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:34.039
<v Speaker 3>I'll give him a very high grade on antio cookery,

906
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:37.559
<v Speaker 3>in particular, the attack on meritocracy and his efforts to

907
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:42.239
<v Speaker 3>restore meritocracy, and some of the heavy handed interventions into

908
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:44.880
<v Speaker 3>the cultural spheres in which the executive branch has a

909
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:49.639
<v Speaker 3>statutory and cultural role or constitutional role, those I think

910
00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:52.480
<v Speaker 3>are salutary. They're a backlash to a backlash, and they

911
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:55.559
<v Speaker 3>deserve to have the effects that they're having on the

912
00:47:55.559 --> 00:47:59.400
<v Speaker 3>opposition because the opposition is finally willing to acknowledge the

913
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:01.079
<v Speaker 3>degree to which they had been led astray by the

914
00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:01.880
<v Speaker 3>activist class.

915
00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:02.840
<v Speaker 1>Not do much.

916
00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:05.440
<v Speaker 3>About it, mind you, but at least acknowledge it and

917
00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:08.800
<v Speaker 3>sort of express quiet frustrations about it when they're in

918
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:11.719
<v Speaker 3>closed doors and among like minded company.

919
00:48:11.800 --> 00:48:12.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

920
00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:14.239
<v Speaker 1>I'll just say, you look more cheerful than I'm used

921
00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:16.360
<v Speaker 1>to seeing you. Noah. I like your grumpiness, which seems

922
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:17.800
<v Speaker 1>to be largely absent today.

923
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:21.519
<v Speaker 3>So I was so grumpy earlier, Steve. I was grumpified

924
00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:23.639
<v Speaker 3>by the Russian the Russian talk, and then you got

925
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:26.039
<v Speaker 3>okay ungrumped.

926
00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:28.079
<v Speaker 2>Noah, we like, and you should buy his book, The

927
00:48:28.159 --> 00:48:31.039
<v Speaker 2>Rise of the New Puritans and just read it conspicuously

928
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:33.440
<v Speaker 2>in public places because the Puritans of the left hate

929
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:35.760
<v Speaker 2>to be called Puritans because they associate that with God.

930
00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:40.519
<v Speaker 2>Brothers like Cotton Mather and Increase for that matter. So yeah,

931
00:48:40.639 --> 00:48:43.519
<v Speaker 2>great book, great conversation. Glad to have you back, and

932
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:45.079
<v Speaker 2>it's always interesting when we do.

933
00:48:45.199 --> 00:48:47.199
<v Speaker 3>And can't wait until the next time we have you

934
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:48.920
<v Speaker 3>on Noah, my pleasure, guys, Thank.

935
00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:51.639
<v Speaker 2>You, bye bye. One of the things though, that I

936
00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:54.599
<v Speaker 2>got to mention and I should, is that after this

937
00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:56.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to the gym. I used to do that

938
00:48:56.559 --> 00:48:58.199
<v Speaker 2>when I was at the office. I would have my

939
00:48:58.840 --> 00:49:00.800
<v Speaker 2>brought worths for lunchton had to the gym. But I

940
00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:04.119
<v Speaker 2>don't work in an office anymore. I'm retired. Eh, I'm retired.

941
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:06.199
<v Speaker 2>I just quit my job, so I have to go

942
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:08.920
<v Speaker 2>elsewhere for a gym. And the thing is if I don't,

943
00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:10.960
<v Speaker 2>I feel old and I feel creaky. So you've got

944
00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:12.679
<v Speaker 2>to limber up. You get to keep things working, but

945
00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:14.239
<v Speaker 2>you also have to make sure that you're not full

946
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:18.800
<v Speaker 2>of dead cells zombies. Well that's why we're here to

947
00:49:18.840 --> 00:49:21.440
<v Speaker 2>tell you again about Qualitia Senualytic, the first of its

948
00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:24.559
<v Speaker 2>kind of formula designed to help your body naturally eliminate

949
00:49:24.679 --> 00:49:28.360
<v Speaker 2>senescence cells. A big culper behind that. You know, middle

950
00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:32.559
<v Speaker 2>aged feeling can be sinesseen cells also known as zombie cells,

951
00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:34.960
<v Speaker 2>and linger in your body after their useful function is

952
00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:37.800
<v Speaker 2>finished and they waste your energy. They waste your resources.

953
00:49:37.880 --> 00:49:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Let me break it down for you. The accumulation of

954
00:49:40.159 --> 00:49:43.719
<v Speaker 2>zombie cells can lead to less energy, slower workout recovery,

955
00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:48.800
<v Speaker 2>joint discomfort, and basically feeling old. But Qualitius Analytic is

956
00:49:48.840 --> 00:49:53.199
<v Speaker 2>groundbreaking clinically tested supplement with nine vegan plant derived compounds

957
00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:56.119
<v Speaker 2>and help your body naturally eliminate sinessen cells, helping you

958
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:59.119
<v Speaker 2>feel years younger in just months. These odd works you

959
00:49:59.199 --> 00:50:01.920
<v Speaker 2>take it just too days a month, helping your body

960
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:05.320
<v Speaker 2>naturally eliminate zombie sales. You know, age you better at

961
00:50:05.320 --> 00:50:07.519
<v Speaker 2>the cellular level. I gotta tell you one of the

962
00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:10.000
<v Speaker 2>things I appreciate about the most is that just two

963
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:12.039
<v Speaker 2>days a month, you know, not popping something every day

964
00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:13.400
<v Speaker 2>you got to put in your box with the letters

965
00:50:13.400 --> 00:50:16.559
<v Speaker 2>on it. Experience the science of feeling younger. Go to

966
00:50:16.599 --> 00:50:19.400
<v Speaker 2>qualitylife dot com Ricochet for up to fifty percent off

967
00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:22.119
<v Speaker 2>your purchase. You use the coupon code Ricochet for an

968
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:26.559
<v Speaker 2>additional fifteen percent. That's qua l I a life dot

969
00:50:26.599 --> 00:50:29.360
<v Speaker 2>com slash Ricochet for an extra fifteen percent off your purchase.

970
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Your older self will thank you before we goo, gentlemen,

971
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:36.920
<v Speaker 2>we have a fantasy football update. I know ye, I

972
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:40.960
<v Speaker 2>watched the Vikings play their first preseason game last week.

973
00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:43.880
<v Speaker 2>It's it's begun and I love football because it begins

974
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:46.119
<v Speaker 2>on a hot August day and it ends in the

975
00:50:46.199 --> 00:50:51.679
<v Speaker 2>absolute cold seller of winter with disappointment and bitterness. Fifty dollars. However,

976
00:50:51.960 --> 00:50:55.039
<v Speaker 2>cash prize cash money to the league winners. Charles tell

977
00:50:55.119 --> 00:50:55.800
<v Speaker 2>us about this.

978
00:50:55.880 --> 00:50:59.320
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, well, not any can you come play and have

979
00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:02.039
<v Speaker 6>fun with other Ricochet members, but you can.

980
00:51:01.960 --> 00:51:05.320
<v Speaker 5>Earn some dollars dollar bills if you win.

981
00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:08.280
<v Speaker 6>And that's per league because there's a maximum number of

982
00:51:08.679 --> 00:51:12.840
<v Speaker 6>people in each league, but we are willing to create

983
00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:15.840
<v Speaker 6>as many leagues as necessary. We have two hundred sign ups.

984
00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:18.280
<v Speaker 6>We will create ten leagues of twenty people each, and

985
00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:21.920
<v Speaker 6>each winner of those leagues will receive fifty dollars no

986
00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:24.880
<v Speaker 6>strings attached, except that you have to be a Ricochet

987
00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:27.400
<v Speaker 6>member for the duration, so you can't join, then play

988
00:51:27.400 --> 00:51:30.159
<v Speaker 6>fantasy football, then rejoin and say where's my fifty bucks?

989
00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:32.599
<v Speaker 6>You have to be a part of the community. That's

990
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:36.440
<v Speaker 6>the only rule, and we hope you will sign up

991
00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:38.800
<v Speaker 6>if you want to do that. You'll notice on the

992
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:41.079
<v Speaker 6>site if you look to the right, there is a

993
00:51:41.480 --> 00:51:46.400
<v Speaker 6>little link on the homepage has a football leather backdrop

994
00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:49.480
<v Speaker 6>and it says play fantasy football, win some money or

995
00:51:49.480 --> 00:51:49.880
<v Speaker 6>some such.

996
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:52.239
<v Speaker 5>Click the link, follow the instructions and you're in.

997
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:55.519
<v Speaker 2>You know, you think about joining and signing up and

998
00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:57.599
<v Speaker 2>then quitting and doing that. Yeah, it presupposes a level

999
00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:01.559
<v Speaker 2>of craftiness that I don't think characterizes the average No.

1000
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:03.519
<v Speaker 6>No, I didn't think anyone would actually do it. I

1001
00:52:03.639 --> 00:52:05.719
<v Speaker 6>just said no strings attached, and then I'd rather it

1002
00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:08.119
<v Speaker 6>was one before we go.

1003
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:15.119
<v Speaker 2>I heard this that Trump is reconsidering, not reconsidering considering,

1004
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:18.480
<v Speaker 2>reclassifying marijuana to a Schedule three controlled substance, and a

1005
00:52:18.519 --> 00:52:20.679
<v Speaker 2>lot of people sat up when they heard that. I

1006
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:22.719
<v Speaker 2>didn't because I don't know what a Schedule three is.

1007
00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:26.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm not exactly sure what this means. Have either of

1008
00:52:26.119 --> 00:52:29.679
<v Speaker 2>you followed this story, and I mean AI overview from

1009
00:52:29.719 --> 00:52:32.719
<v Speaker 2>Google says Schedule three are substances that have a moderate

1010
00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:35.519
<v Speaker 2>potential for abuse and addiction, as well as they currently

1011
00:52:35.559 --> 00:52:37.280
<v Speaker 2>accepted medical use in treatment. So I don't know if

1012
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:41.719
<v Speaker 2>this is an upgrade or a downgrade. Downgrade, it's a downgrade.

1013
00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:42.480
<v Speaker 2>It's a four. Now.

1014
00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:52.519
<v Speaker 6>Well, the classification system I think sets the most dangerous

1015
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:54.320
<v Speaker 6>drugs one.

1016
00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:58.599
<v Speaker 2>It's schedule one. Now, yes, is schedule one, and the

1017
00:52:58.719 --> 00:53:03.119
<v Speaker 2>who has recommended moving it, and so we are going

1018
00:53:03.199 --> 00:53:05.239
<v Speaker 2>to be I don't know. It's like it's like Defcon.

1019
00:53:05.320 --> 00:53:07.719
<v Speaker 2>Which order does it go? And the magnitude of stars

1020
00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:11.480
<v Speaker 2>point is I think the entire country, well not the

1021
00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:13.760
<v Speaker 2>entire country. I think a lot of people are rethinking

1022
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:16.320
<v Speaker 2>the whole Oh, just decriminalize it. I'll let people smoke

1023
00:53:16.360 --> 00:53:18.000
<v Speaker 2>it wherever they want to do, because it leads to

1024
00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:22.400
<v Speaker 2>a stinky streets. Then people say, oh, what's the what

1025
00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:24.920
<v Speaker 2>do you care? Come on living in a city, you know,

1026
00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:26.159
<v Speaker 2>just I'm sorry.

1027
00:53:26.199 --> 00:53:27.360
<v Speaker 1>I was working on.

1028
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:32.199
<v Speaker 2>My outdoor lighting system at my house. Somebody walked past

1029
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:35.599
<v Speaker 2>smoking something and it was at the bottom of a

1030
00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:38.320
<v Speaker 2>hill and it wafted up all the way to me

1031
00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:40.280
<v Speaker 2>and it was this potent when they got to my nostrils.

1032
00:53:40.360 --> 00:53:42.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't know when they changed the aroma of marijuana,

1033
00:53:42.519 --> 00:53:44.719
<v Speaker 2>which my college days was not this so difference. But

1034
00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:47.079
<v Speaker 2>it's just like I hated and I walked walked to

1035
00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:49.800
<v Speaker 2>New York and other streets and it's just choking clouds

1036
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:51.519
<v Speaker 2>of it. Can't stand it.

1037
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:54.880
<v Speaker 5>But go on, can I give a limited defense of this?

1038
00:53:55.320 --> 00:53:55.760
<v Speaker 5>Go ahead?

1039
00:53:56.119 --> 00:53:59.440
<v Speaker 6>Well, first off, I don't think the federal government is

1040
00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:03.079
<v Speaker 6>allowed to prohibit marijuana constitutionaling, so I would like to

1041
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:05.559
<v Speaker 6>see them out of it. Irrespective of what the policy

1042
00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:07.800
<v Speaker 6>was to be, you could then have prohibition in the

1043
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:08.880
<v Speaker 6>States if you wanted it.

1044
00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:09.960
<v Speaker 5>I just don't.

1045
00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:14.280
<v Speaker 6>Understand why we needed a constitutional amendment to allow the

1046
00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:16.400
<v Speaker 6>prohibition of alcohol. But then a few years later the

1047
00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:20.159
<v Speaker 6>government said drugs, let's do that. The enumerted powers doctrine

1048
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:22.360
<v Speaker 6>is still there. It's still in there. You can read it.

1049
00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:25.000
<v Speaker 6>But in terms of the smell on the street, I

1050
00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:27.000
<v Speaker 6>one hundred percent agree with you, James. What I don't

1051
00:54:27.039 --> 00:54:34.760
<v Speaker 6>understand is how smoking it in public became an intrinsic

1052
00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:38.039
<v Speaker 6>part of decriminalization.

1053
00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:41.280
<v Speaker 2>What happened is sitting around the dorm room and listening

1054
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:42.719
<v Speaker 2>to Genesis.

1055
00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:45.199
<v Speaker 6>But the thing is right is you could have a

1056
00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:48.079
<v Speaker 6>situation in which a state says we are not going

1057
00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:51.559
<v Speaker 6>to criminalize marijuana, but also you are not allowed to

1058
00:54:51.559 --> 00:54:53.440
<v Speaker 6>smoke it on the street. And I don't think this

1059
00:54:53.519 --> 00:54:56.840
<v Speaker 6>is a weird view because a we already do this

1060
00:54:56.880 --> 00:55:01.880
<v Speaker 6>with drinking. Most states have some restrictions or cities on

1061
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:04.960
<v Speaker 6>whether you're allowed to drink in public. For example, in Jacksonville,

1062
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:07.639
<v Speaker 6>you are not allowed to drink on the street except

1063
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:10.280
<v Speaker 6>on game day and between certain hours within a certain

1064
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:13.400
<v Speaker 6>part of the city, which makes total sense for tailgating. Second,

1065
00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:16.519
<v Speaker 6>we have now reached the point with progressives at which

1066
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:19.880
<v Speaker 6>they think that if somebody smokes tobacco on the street

1067
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:23.320
<v Speaker 6>they should be instantly executed. Yes, but that smoking marijuana

1068
00:55:23.360 --> 00:55:27.079
<v Speaker 6>on the street is a normal part of a functioning

1069
00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:29.960
<v Speaker 6>civil society. And I don't understand why more people who

1070
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:33.840
<v Speaker 6>are more libertarian minded have not taken the view decriminalize

1071
00:55:33.880 --> 00:55:36.280
<v Speaker 6>marijuana and ban smoking it in public.

1072
00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:37.599
<v Speaker 5>Because that's the bit that everyone hates.

1073
00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:40.840
<v Speaker 6>But we already do it for drinking, So just do it, Like,

1074
00:55:41.840 --> 00:55:44.880
<v Speaker 6>why does this become the hell that these people want

1075
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:45.199
<v Speaker 6>to die?

1076
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:47.519
<v Speaker 5>On the A would probably lead.

1077
00:55:47.360 --> 00:55:51.239
<v Speaker 2>To a disparate impact argument at some point. I know rubbish.

1078
00:55:51.320 --> 00:55:54.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm with you there, but I completely agree, Stephen. We

1079
00:55:54.840 --> 00:55:56.559
<v Speaker 2>know that you're the kind of guy who just gets

1080
00:55:56.559 --> 00:56:00.239
<v Speaker 2>out his gandof bond and rips them off on the

1081
00:56:00.280 --> 00:56:02.800
<v Speaker 2>weekend while listening to some King Crimson. But whats you

1082
00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:03.480
<v Speaker 2>take on the mon thing.

1083
00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:07.599
<v Speaker 1>Well, first of all, you mentioned one of you mentioned prohibition,

1084
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:10.000
<v Speaker 1>which brought me the frame of mind of Will Rogers

1085
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:12.280
<v Speaker 1>great remark that well, at least prohibition is better than

1086
00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:15.599
<v Speaker 1>no liquor at all, and I wish we could go

1087
00:56:15.639 --> 00:56:17.599
<v Speaker 1>back to something like that. Actually, I think the terms

1088
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:20.440
<v Speaker 1>Charlie laid out or right, And I've joked for a

1089
00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:23.039
<v Speaker 1>long time that the way the left operates is tobacco

1090
00:56:23.360 --> 00:56:26.480
<v Speaker 1>is illegal and carries a death sentence, but marijuana smoking

1091
00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:30.079
<v Speaker 1>will become mandatory. I do think, though I haven't followed

1092
00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:32.400
<v Speaker 1>the medical literature closely, but I do think we're going

1093
00:56:32.480 --> 00:56:34.320
<v Speaker 1>to end up having a lot of second thoughts about

1094
00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:37.280
<v Speaker 1>our rush to legalize it. So one thing about decriminalizing it,

1095
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:41.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm all for that, but I do think that commercializing it,

1096
00:56:41.239 --> 00:56:45.320
<v Speaker 1>legalizing it, giving it a social approval is a bad idea.

1097
00:56:46.679 --> 00:56:49.920
<v Speaker 1>And you know it was true that, you know, before prohibition,

1098
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:52.280
<v Speaker 1>we really did have a serious problem with alcohol consumption

1099
00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:55.840
<v Speaker 1>and alcoholism and it went way down under prohibition. It

1100
00:56:55.880 --> 00:56:58.320
<v Speaker 1>never came back to quite the level it was beforehand.

1101
00:56:58.719 --> 00:57:00.440
<v Speaker 1>But we still have a lot of problem people who

1102
00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:03.079
<v Speaker 1>have alcohol problems and treatment programs and AA and all

1103
00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:06.440
<v Speaker 1>the rest of that, and my ideal world would be

1104
00:57:06.519 --> 00:57:10.280
<v Speaker 1>finding that kind of stable equilibrium for marijuana as well.

1105
00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:12.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, the thing is is that a lot of

1106
00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:14.400
<v Speaker 2>the people who were voting for this were remembering back

1107
00:57:14.440 --> 00:57:17.039
<v Speaker 2>to their healthy on commedy college days when the stuff

1108
00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:20.480
<v Speaker 2>they're buying ditchweed from somebody who was essentially getting it

1109
00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:22.719
<v Speaker 2>from the guy down out in the country who would

1110
00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:25.400
<v Speaker 2>sell it in giant hefty bags and beat like tumble.

1111
00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Rights for Friday. I think stuff today is more powerful, right,

1112
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:29.159
<v Speaker 1>I think it stuff today?

1113
00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:29.599
<v Speaker 2>Right?

1114
00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:32.199
<v Speaker 1>And although James, I have to say, I do resemble

1115
00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:34.280
<v Speaker 1>that remark of sitting around a dorm room listening to

1116
00:57:34.320 --> 00:57:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Genesis with our.

1117
00:57:35.400 --> 00:57:37.679
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, why did I say that? What do you think?

1118
00:57:38.599 --> 00:57:38.719
<v Speaker 7>Right?

1119
00:57:38.840 --> 00:57:41.800
<v Speaker 2>I know exactly I resembled it. I embodied it. I

1120
00:57:42.039 --> 00:57:44.360
<v Speaker 2>just know that there's something that it's just very on

1121
00:57:44.519 --> 00:57:47.360
<v Speaker 2>to walk into my high class grocery store, ultra high

1122
00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:50.480
<v Speaker 2>class and they've got a whole section for THHC. And

1123
00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:52.280
<v Speaker 2>again if you want to have, and they have a

1124
00:57:52.360 --> 00:57:54.280
<v Speaker 2>liquor section of course too, because you can drink some

1125
00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:56.920
<v Speaker 2>of these things and become sparklingly interesting people after half

1126
00:57:56.920 --> 00:57:58.920
<v Speaker 2>a glass. But you drink this and you become an

1127
00:57:58.960 --> 00:58:03.159
<v Speaker 2>insensate moron who has absolutely nothing of no merit to say.

1128
00:58:03.480 --> 00:58:06.280
<v Speaker 2>But that's my old biases coming there. I suppose I'm old,

1129
00:58:06.320 --> 00:58:09.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm a boomer, and I prefer the fine products of

1130
00:58:09.199 --> 00:58:12.599
<v Speaker 2>the Scottish Highlands when it comes to an amber liquid.

1131
00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:14.639
<v Speaker 2>As a matter of fact, I've got a space side

1132
00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:18.519
<v Speaker 2>lined up for myself tonight, but that's hours away. Right now,

1133
00:58:18.599 --> 00:58:20.719
<v Speaker 2>I got to say thank you podcast brought to you

1134
00:58:20.760 --> 00:58:23.199
<v Speaker 2>by Cozy Earth and by Quality of s Analytics support

1135
00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:25.239
<v Speaker 2>us by becoming part of the best place for civil

1136
00:58:25.239 --> 00:58:27.880
<v Speaker 2>center right conversation and joining up at Ricochet. And of

1137
00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:30.079
<v Speaker 2>course I would like you to leave a four star

1138
00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:32.760
<v Speaker 2>review on Apple Podcast, not a five star. No no,

1139
00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:34.440
<v Speaker 2>I've been asking for that for years and move the

1140
00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:36.480
<v Speaker 2>need a little bit. So I'm saying four star and

1141
00:58:36.519 --> 00:58:38.920
<v Speaker 2>maybe you will, out of just sheer stupporness give us

1142
00:58:38.920 --> 00:58:41.320
<v Speaker 2>a five because I didn't ask for it. But what

1143
00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:43.960
<v Speaker 2>we mostly ask for you to do is come back

1144
00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:46.880
<v Speaker 2>next week, when Charlie and Stephen been another guest, I

1145
00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:51.599
<v Speaker 2>hope will entertain you with insight, amusement, observations, and everything

1146
00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:53.800
<v Speaker 2>else you've come to expect from the Ricochet Podcast over

1147
00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:56.880
<v Speaker 2>these seven hundred and fifty three episodes. Gentlemen, it's been

1148
00:58:56.880 --> 00:58:59.320
<v Speaker 2>a pleasure, and we'll see everybody in the comments at

1149
00:58:59.400 --> 00:59:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Ricochet or Point up. Bye bye,