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Speaker 1: What is up, fellows, Echo's I am Damp Valley coming

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at you with the one the only mister Mortensen of

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Yahoo Sports Fame, the NBA podcast, Fame, Sports Illustrated Fame,

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and I always forget one of the four?

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Speaker 2: What's the other one? Which one did you mention? I

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don't like Sports Illustrated Forbes Yahoo, Oh, I forgot Forbes.

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Speaker 1: So of Forbes Fame too, MORET does a whole lot

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and does it super well. We are here for one

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of our trademark crossovers to talk about are these teams

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contenders or not? Feels like a good time to take

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stock of these teams post trade deadline. We're gonna do

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Eastern Conference this round, and then we will do Western

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Conference later on in the week. It's just an interesting

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thought exercise to do at this time of year. But

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first and foremost, mort how the heck are you doing?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well. I'm getting a little sick of like

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my backdrop because I'm we moved in December and we're

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still waiting for like a closet to come to be

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delivered to right now. My office is just like, basically,

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let's put all the crap that we have not organized

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yet in there, so I'm like, I want to get

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a proper setup now, So I'm like a little frustrated.

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But outside of that, I'm tired Dan as well, Daddy.

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We just got over the traded line and I worked

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my ass off, which look, it's fun. It's always fun

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to do the trade deadline, but my god, you are

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just bombed for like three days at the very least,

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especially after this.

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Speaker 1: One, right, and you need the All Star You can

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see players need the All Star break with the number

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of just absences we're getting in the games leading up,

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which is why it makes this exercise. It's fun, but

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it's also sort of challenging because we just don't have

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the samples with I mean, as we're recording this, Luca's

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gonna make his debut tonight for the Lakers. We've seen

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what two darn Fox games in San Antonio, so there's

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just like a Chris Middleton hasn't even played.

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Speaker 2: One three games, but I think I saw it too,

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so there you go.

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Speaker 1: So it's yeah, this is just a tough time a

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year to get a hold of stuff. And there's also

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I don't know if you've seen this before, there's a

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lot of noise this time of year where I think

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a lot of people associate with the end of the season,

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and I tend to agree with them, but I believe

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it was ESPN's Kevin Pelton did some sort of a

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study a few years ago and found out that like

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the stretch like January basketball specifically, so like we're only

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just removed from that is like the most meaningless when

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it comes to kind of determining long term trends or

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like is this for real? And so that makes it

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so tough because you're so inclined to be like the

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calendar flipped, how has this team been doing since January one?

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And then it's well, do I just dismiss everything that

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I've seen right now? So I'm sure to hear your

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thoughts on these teams, and if you're if you're ready,

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let's let's dive into the Eastern.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, sir.

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Speaker 1: First up, according to the alphabet, more the Boston Celtics.

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Speaker 2: Here.

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Speaker 1: Look, there's a tough question for you, but I'm gonna

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ask it. Yeah, is this team a championship contender?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? Not complete, complete pretentor like I don't even know

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how they won last year? No, of course, when you

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have that type of defense when you have that type

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of three point volume obviously, So I actually want to

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turn this into like a real discussion because we could

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basically just you know, skim through this one. They haven't

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really played up to their usual standards over the last

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month and a half. But like we agree that that's

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just basically them saying, look, we're going to sacrifice periods

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of time during the regular season just to ramp up

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for the playoffs, right like, because I can't imagine that

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we should take this last month and a half seriously, No,

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I can't either.

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Speaker 1: And there are two things, and there are quick things

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that I think people have pointed to that I just

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keep you dig into it, and it's just right. Maybe

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it doesn't look great all the time, but the numbers

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are what the numbers are, and people are worried about

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they feel like their defensive gear just doesn't have it.

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Boston is sixth in the league in points a lot

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of profession against top ten offenses, that is, and if

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you do top twenty offenses, they're still like in the

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top five. So I can't bring myself to care about that.

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And then the offense can buy down sometimes and it's

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why aren't they operating with more urgency or it feels

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too predictable more. They have the best half court offense

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in the NBA against top ten defenses, and so I

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think there probably are fair concerns to point to with

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this team, but they have the vitals of a title contender,

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because guess what the reigning NBA champion that is a

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little banged up. You look at Tatum and Brown and

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Drew Holiday. They're a title contender. Isn't that shocking?

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Speaker 2: Completely? And they look they just additory Greg. I really

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like that for him, I really do. I know that

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he's not you know what he used to be. He's

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getting older as well, but he's tough as nails and

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he's a guy you can put into like, oh wait

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a second before I get ahead of myself here, he's

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still playoff eligible, right the cutoffs March first? Right? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

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well yeah, okay. I just wanted to make sure he

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should be.

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Speaker 1: He'll be starting over Drew Holiday at some point, right.

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Speaker 2: You would have magined no, but for real, like, if

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let's say Drew actually goes down and you have to

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like start, you know, an untraditional starting lineup in the playoffs,

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you can actually rely on a guy like Tory Craig,

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you can rely on him to play those mistake free

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minutes where you can trust the defense, you can trust

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some of the shot making. You can also trust that

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he will attack an open paint like I just think

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that's a spooky under the radar addition for them. So

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just I have no worries whatsoever. I do wonder, like

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if we we You know how in journalism you have

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the red team that always has to like poke through

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a story to figure out like, you know, what are

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the holes here?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I wonder what would be like a red team exercise

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for Boston, like how can you beat them? I how

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can you beat them? I don't, I think, Yeah, I know,

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it's I don't know.

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Speaker 1: When you look at them on paper, if everyone's healthy,

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it's tough to like come off with like an ingredient

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for like success of how to beat them. I think

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if you look at the way they've played, especially during

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some of their tougher stretches, you can maybe see some

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cracks and it's a lot of people focused on, Okay,

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what is Jallen Brown shooting from three? And then like

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some of that, even though the data is not always

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gonna support this like some of the minutes without Tatum

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have just not looked great for Boston. But you're not

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gonna beat them when Tatum's off, Like Tatum's gonna play

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a bunch in the postseason. Uh, if you look at

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I guess the best way to frame will be with them.

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What is the team, whether it's the East or the

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West that you look at and say, what, Like they

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seem as if they're built to be Boston, But I

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ultimately think that it needs to be a team where

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there's at least three guys who are just they're not

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like not even not liabilities, but they're active assets against

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Boston's perimeter personnel. And they can't it can't come at

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the expense of like your offensive dynamism. And Cleveland comes close,

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of course because of they have Alan and Mobley and

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now they have Hunter. They also have if Dean Wade's healthy,

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they have Isaac with Koro if he's healthy. But then

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it's like they do have some pressure points on defense,

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like Donovan Mitchell's defended a lot better this year, Darius

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conin Shoulder's a lot of tough assign Like even that

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team feels like in Cleveland's been spectacular this year.

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Speaker 2: Don't get me.

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Speaker 1: Wrong, even that team just I wouldn't call it a

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recipe for beating right Boston, do you have like a

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what would be? Do you have a recipe or there

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like a matchup in mind, especially in the.

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Speaker 2: Okay see okay, see for me, because of the defense

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alone right there, I do think they would have been

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a little bit more dangerous if they gotten some more

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shooting in over the course of the trade deadline. But

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like that is the one team because they also have

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the size. I think that is one area you can

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go in and influence it all. Like winning the rebound game.

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Like I know that that people within the analytics community

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have grown very sour on rebounding and saying it's over,

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you know, overrated. I just can't get there, Dan. Maybe

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I'm like leaning into my boomerism. I'm not sure, but

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like I am still in love with quality rebounding. I

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think rebounding so essentially, especially in the playoffs. So for

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them to you know, trot out chet Holgren, I say,

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a Hartenstein and also have quality rebounders at different positions,

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that to me would be a major possible advantage. The

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question is, though, with Boston taking you know what fifty

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three is per game, some of those are gonna go along,

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and then that sort of negates at least the interior rebounding.

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So I kind of hope we get those two teams

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in the finals because I think just from a basketball perspective,

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like pure basketball, in terms of like day to day adjustments,

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you know, schimatics, just the preparation level, it'll be porn

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for us, just outright porn.

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Speaker 1: I do think, and this is we're gonna get the

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Cleveland in a second, Like if you're just a fan

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of like good basketball or want the best matchups possible,

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like remove your fandom from the equation, not use specifically,

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of course, like it needs to be Boston or Cleveland

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coming out of the East right now. It's just like

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those are the teams that you look at as the

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standard bearers for real title contenders. I don't think spoiler

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alert on Cleveland or I guess some of the teams

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to come. There's just not any one in the other

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in the East that's near those two? Do you have

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before we move on from like just it's an easy exercise.

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We're kind of like trying to nitpick here. Would you

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be more concerned whether it's against OKAC or not, Like,

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where's Boston most beatable? Is it on their offense to

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where it's okay, if the threes aren't falling, They're not

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necessarily a team that draws a ton of free throws.

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They don't generate a ton of riom pressure with their personnel.

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And those, by the way, those are two areas where

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people like to point to Jason Tatum. But he's just

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got better in like those areas over time. So it's

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not him specifically, or is it you look at the

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defense and it's like, okay, some of those lineups aren't

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gonna have a ton of size, and do you have

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the same flexibility you know, to size up against some

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whether it's an Okac or whether it's a Cleveland.

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Speaker 2: No, it's definitely the shooting. It's definitely one of those.

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Could you imagine just them going in like let's say

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it's the finals against the Thunder and let's see over

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the first two games, Boston goes like, I don't know,

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like eight for I was about to say eight for

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twenty eight, but they'll say twenty eight shots from range.

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First quarter that's the quarter. But like, okay, so they

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might go like, I don't know, well for forty eight, right,

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if they go into if they have two of those games,

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they're very, very beatable. And then suddenly the thunder up

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to oh, because you can absolutely utilize that to your advantage.

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So I think that's the answer the shooting potential shooting disparity.

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We move on to the Cleveland Cavaliers.

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Speaker 1: Now that Dan has his mic plugged in, everybody can

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get excited.

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Speaker 2: More. Here's another really tough question for you to answer.

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Speaker 1: Here are the Cleveland Cavaliers a contender post trade deadline? Oh?

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Speaker 2: I think they were before. Look, can we just talk

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about like the Entre Hunter ending up there? How big

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of a slam dunk that is? Like I understand that

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there's a concern at times about one his health and

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two oh is this like an outlier year? But I

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something clicked in that man before the season, something clicked

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like he was always, you know, decent. I think the

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the the entire narrative of him being overpaid, like, yes,

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he was overpaid, when I think it grew to such

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a stents where you kind of forgot there was a

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player in there as well, Like he's a player, and

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a perfectly fine player. This year. He's certainly not overpaid

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by any stretch of the imagination. He found his na

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He's just his shot volume, his shot diet, his shot profile.

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He kind of polished that off. It worked. I'm super

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impressed with how he's looked all year. I was shocked

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to see him get moved. I thought Atlanta was like,

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all right, now we're getting real good value here. Guess

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they were to the point where they were like, let's

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cash in. But that's just great for Cleveland. This was

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like sort of their missing link in a way. I

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always felt like they had wings, but none of them

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were really like off the same caliber or close to

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the two guards and the two bigs. Now you have

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sort of a bridge from your front court to your

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back court. I love this acquisition a ton.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that Grant and I talked about that. That's maybe

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the one move at the deadline that impacts the actual

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championship race more than any other move.

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Speaker 2: And it's look, they had some viable options.

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Speaker 1: I think Dean Wade is great, but like you can't

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rely on him for his health, and then you needed

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someone who was not maybe not needed, but you would

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prefer someone who's higher offensive volume, and that would be

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hunter and even some of his we didn't talk a

259
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lot about this, even some of his flaws in Atlanta,

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which he's rained in, Like that's a dude who will

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like he will try and do someone on one stuff.

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It's not a huge part of his game anymore, which

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is good. But to have that option, that flexibility, to

264
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have the we talked a lot about the lineup optionality

265
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now too. It's just sliding him up to the four

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in one big lineups. It's just a lot easier and

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makes a lot more sense than doing the same thing

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with a Dean Wade or a Max Struce or even

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in Isaaca Korro. So that you were right, they were

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a contender beforehand, and I think they were such there's

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such a no brainer contender, I think, especially when you

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look at the way that Evan Mobley is played at

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both ends this year, if you had to, you know,

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sort of poke the needle and say, okay, well, what

275
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is we did this with Boston, Like what is sort

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of their potential undermining flaw.

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Speaker 2: In terms of like trying to find what type of

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weakness they have?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like what would you be most concerned about in

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a playoff series or leading into the postseason in general.

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Speaker 2: So I guess when you have your offense, you know

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the vast majority of your offense being created by two

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undersized guards. There's always this fear of when you're matched

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up against bigger players, like can sustain a high level

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of efficiency throughout the course of a full playoff series. Mitchell,

286
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to his credit, always seems to somehow, some way find

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his way. I think Garland this year looks more prime

288
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than ever to do the same. But both those guys

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are still like six one six ' two, to the

290
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point where I'm like, we can't eb like ignoring that.

291
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I'm not saying it's gonna be their downfall, not by

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a long shot, but it is something where you're kind

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of like, let's let's just keep that in the back

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of our heads. Like if you're going up against Boston,

295
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for example, Like how tall is Drue like six three,

296
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six ' four and he's a bulldog. You have Derek

297
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White who's like six five six y six and he's quick,

298
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he's got long arms. It's those type of guys can

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at least affect shooting percentages a great deal. So I'm

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gonna say the size of the backcourt without being like

301
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too critical because that sounds like a major point of

302
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criticism for the Cavs, But like, don't don't make it

303
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sound like that is the you know, the one thing

304
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that could fall apart like that. There are different areas

305
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,480
like these two are gonna produce. It's not like they're

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gonna go into the playoffs and average fourteen points per game,

307
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like they're gonna get their twenty twenty five maybe even,

308
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:59,240
but it's gonna be on potentially inconsistent shooting percentages from

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came to the game.

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Speaker 1: I think you're focusing on the right stuff too, because

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a lot of people might flip that and worry about

312
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,279
them defensively, like that small guard backcourt in the playoffs,

313
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and it's through two kind of postseasons, we have proof

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of concept that like, the Cows are mostly going to

315
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have enough around them defensively, and so the question to

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00:15:15,519 --> 00:15:17,440
me should be on offense. And the only thing I

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00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,720
would add is what can make life harder on those

318
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,840
guys aside like, yes, if you're going up against Boston

319
00:15:22,919 --> 00:15:26,480
or certain defenders, what does the supplementary three point shooting

320
00:15:26,519 --> 00:15:27,360
around them look like?

321
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Speaker 2: Like what type of space are they working?

322
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Speaker 1: Because we've seen Evan Mobley was kind of hot from

323
00:15:31,159 --> 00:15:32,799
three he's been I think he's at like thirty one

324
00:15:32,799 --> 00:15:35,399
and a half percent since January one, Tiger Rome has

325
00:15:35,399 --> 00:15:39,000
fallen off a little bit percentage wise, So you kind

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of have to look at and say, Okay, like is

327
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Hunter going to be making his threes? Is Max Strus

328
00:15:43,679 --> 00:15:45,519
he's been hitting his threes? How many minutes can you

329
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get away with Sam Merrill defensively? And then also like

330
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is Dean Wade going to be taking and making his threes?

331
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And so that is I think that's a real sort

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of fascinating element for them. I just they come close

333
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to their wreck is better as of right now, I

334
00:16:01,879 --> 00:16:03,600
think they have a strong case though, Like throw that

335
00:16:03,639 --> 00:16:06,360
out the window and there's gonna be the the track

336
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,120
record to trust Boston more Cleveland as a real case

337
00:16:09,159 --> 00:16:10,679
as they should be the favorite to come out of

338
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the East, because I think that's how one they good

339
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,639
they were before. But two how much sense that DeAndre

340
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:18,399
Hunter acquisition makes yep to me?

341
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Speaker 2: The fact that you have a guy who's like a

342
00:16:21,639 --> 00:16:25,399
prototypical wing big in Hunter, who can play both forward

343
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,480
spots and you can play him in both big lineup

344
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small lineups. Like you can you can squeeze a solid

345
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,360
thirty minutes out of him, no problem if you want to.

346
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And the fact that he can take over those processions

347
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as you alluded to previously, Like he'll take you one

348
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on one and he'll not hesitate to pull up from

349
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three too, you needn't. I don't know if this is

350
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,159
the right wording, but like he's sort of a release

351
00:16:47,279 --> 00:16:49,879
valve in that sense, like if those two guards are

352
00:16:49,919 --> 00:16:53,279
just being bottled up by tough defense, He's a guy

353
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you can sort of pass to and say all right

354
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for the next couple of minutes, makes something happen at

355
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the very least. And look, also, I think we're kind

356
00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:04,960
of underselling Jared Allen's offense occasionally. I know this year

357
00:17:05,039 --> 00:17:08,680
he's only what thirteen fourteen points per game something along

358
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,920
those lines. He's been far more like opportunistic than ever before.

359
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,480
But that like undersells his skill set as a score

360
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,319
Like he's got a really good sense of scoring in

361
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,839
the post. He's got a surprisingly adept like you know,

362
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,960
both hook shots and push shots. He's got a little

363
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bit of a jumper. He's a guy who I think

364
00:17:27,799 --> 00:17:30,880
almost intentionally, they've not gone to a whole lot this year.

365
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,000
So in the playoffs when things get bottled up, he's

366
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,680
a guy who suddenly go, oh, you know what I forgot?

367
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,640
I can actually go for twenty five in a game

368
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,880
or two. So I do think they have some answers.

369
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Speaker 1: I think though a lot of it, and I would

370
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,440
agree with everything you said. A lot of his stuff, though,

371
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would be predicated on okay, like so DeAndre Hunter is

372
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an example, the same type of space isn't going to

373
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be available to him if defenses don't care about leaving Hunter,

374
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who is shooting like thirty two percent from three since

375
00:17:56,519 --> 00:17:58,960
January one? Again, how much do you read into that

376
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,960
when Hunter's still at I think he's still like thirty

377
00:18:01,039 --> 00:18:02,720
nine percent for the season or something like that.

378
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,799
Speaker 2: He had a horrible Jane Mardy, just a horrible.

379
00:18:05,519 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 1: Which is that might have contributed to why the Hawk

380
00:18:08,039 --> 00:18:10,759
because I saw a lot of that trade being framed

381
00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:13,440
as if this was this like this past summer, the

382
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,279
Hawks would have killed to get this return. And my

383
00:18:16,319 --> 00:18:18,279
whole point was, well, it's not this summer, and so

384
00:18:18,279 --> 00:18:19,920
if that was the best available out there, I simply

385
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,519
would have kept him. But maybe the team that's trading

386
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:25,160
away the player usually has more information on them than anyone,

387
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,599
and so I'm fascinated to see if there's something we're

388
00:18:27,599 --> 00:18:30,680
missing there, specifically about his playoff viability. But that looms

389
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,559
is just a home run acquisition I have. I've said

390
00:18:33,559 --> 00:18:35,839
it like a dozen times at this point. Are you

391
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,480
ready to venture into more of the land of the unknown?

392
00:18:38,519 --> 00:18:39,119
Speaker 2: Though? Oh?

393
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:44,920
Speaker 1: Always, always the Indiana Pacers, who I don't think if

394
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,799
you and I had recorded this a couple of months ago,

395
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,799
they probably wouldn't even have made the list. I am

396
00:18:49,799 --> 00:18:52,960
even on not even record, but on this podcast, I said,

397
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,319
I'm sure this is verbatim. I am out on the

398
00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:01,039
twenty twenty four five Indiana Pacers, and they get nem

399
00:19:01,039 --> 00:19:05,240
hard back. Haliburton had started playing better even before that. Uh,

400
00:19:05,279 --> 00:19:08,400
they've been they have the vitals of a contender for

401
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:09,720
like quite some time.

402
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:10,440
Speaker 2: Now.

403
00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 1: What do you make of them and their threat level

404
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,359
in the Eastern Conference specifically.

405
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,920
Speaker 2: Oh, I've been super impressed with them before they went

406
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,759
to Paris, Uh, and I went down there to cover

407
00:19:21,839 --> 00:19:25,039
that whole thing. They were on an absolute hot streak.

408
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,480
And even even Rick Carlisle, who's who can be one

409
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,000
of the most skeptic people like to interview. Ever, he

410
00:19:33,079 --> 00:19:34,799
had a bit of a skip in a step going

411
00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:37,640
into press conferences before the games, and you know they've

412
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,319
they're trying to imagine him skipping now yeah no, yeah,

413
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,480
well you know that was more mentally skipping if anything.

414
00:19:43,519 --> 00:19:46,319
But like he was, he was like joyful use playing

415
00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,319
around with the media, which that that doesn't really happen

416
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:54,799
with great regularity, I think, and and whenever I was,

417
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,319
I was at every press conference there when whether it

418
00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,039
was Halle Siaka Mathrine all those guys, there is a

419
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,359
sense of, oh yeah, we believe, we belong, like we

420
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,319
are absolutely here and we deserve to be here. Like that,

421
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,119
there is a confidence level that I was very surprised

422
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,000
for them to showcase. I think they have a great

423
00:20:14,039 --> 00:20:17,160
cohesion there. And I might be a little bit simplistic

424
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:21,400
in this, but I always appreciate teams where the hierarchy

425
00:20:21,799 --> 00:20:25,200
is like pretty set. So like you know, Tyreez is

426
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,559
going to run the show. You know Sam is going

427
00:20:27,599 --> 00:20:29,839
to be like the secondary. You know Matherin's going to

428
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,319
be you know, playing off of those two. You know

429
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,160
Miles is going to be more of a floor space

430
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,640
where he's not going to take guys off the drip,

431
00:20:35,799 --> 00:20:39,599
like people know their roles. Role acceptance to me is major,

432
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,720
and it seems like this entire team it's just yep,

433
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,240
we know, like we at all know what our roles is.

434
00:20:46,279 --> 00:20:48,240
Like my name is Obi Top and I'm supposed to

435
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,279
shoot threes and dunk and not a damn thing else.

436
00:20:50,559 --> 00:20:54,319
That's I think that's a great way to get on

437
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,720
the same page. And when you have that cohesion, when

438
00:20:56,759 --> 00:20:59,000
you have that understanding of who you are as both

439
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,960
of this team and individuals, frankly, yeah, you're probably gonna

440
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:05,640
shock a couple teams along the way.

441
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, They're They're a fascinating case study because when you

442
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,680
start to get after Boston and Cleveland, I think a

443
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,400
lot of people are just gonna default to the Knicks there.

444
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,200
And I really do think that territory is more wide

445
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,039
open than just defaulting to any team. As the third

446
00:21:21,079 --> 00:21:22,480
best team in the East, I think even people are

447
00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:25,519
just gonna give all Milwaukee's healthy h Kyle Kuzma changes

448
00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:28,359
everything for them. I'm making a joke there. So I

449
00:21:28,759 --> 00:21:31,200
don't know what to make of them relative to the

450
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,799
playoff discussion. I do think while I've been impressed by

451
00:21:33,839 --> 00:21:36,759
some of the things I've seen from a Ben mcmathren,

452
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,279
a Ben Shephard, even some moments from Obi Toppin for

453
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,880
them to me, I really think it's gonna come down to,

454
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,160
like your best five man unit needs to be, like

455
00:21:46,279 --> 00:21:48,799
it's we know what the four is like Siakam, Turner

456
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,079
and Halliburton and them Hard And I really think like

457
00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:55,559
the fifth most important player on this team is and

458
00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:56,960
needs to be Aaron E.

459
00:21:57,079 --> 00:21:59,319
Speaker 2: Smith And so what does he look like? What do

460
00:21:59,359 --> 00:21:59,799
you look like?

461
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 1: Not just defensively from him, but when your two best

462
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,160
defenders perimeter defenders anyway, or probably Nemhard and Nie Smith,

463
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,400
which scus you know that excus a little small. And

464
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,519
even as they've kind of been on this tear, like

465
00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:13,079
the rebounding for this team still isn't great, but I

466
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,319
do think that they're once again showing and I think

467
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:16,000
Sakham is.

468
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 2: A huge part of this.

469
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, their ability to just score in different ways on

470
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,079
offense even when things slow down. They have the second

471
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,920
highest half court best at half court offense against top

472
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,839
ten defenses this year. And that's like we're not just

473
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,960
talking about the transition opportunities and the speed that they

474
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,880
can generate. I think that they are perhaps better built

475
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,000
than ever, just because now they have more time with

476
00:22:38,079 --> 00:22:40,759
Siakam and even the stuff we've seen from Nemhard, it

477
00:22:40,839 --> 00:22:44,079
feels like their offense is more postseason proof than it

478
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:44,920
even was before.

479
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 2: I hear you on the Nie Smith point that he

480
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:50,960
kind of needs to be the fifth guy. I would

481
00:22:51,079 --> 00:22:55,480
argue that doors open for Ben Shephard. So he does

482
00:22:55,599 --> 00:22:59,079
a lot of the stuff that. Don't get me wrong,

483
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,400
Like I don't think he's I want to like just

484
00:23:01,759 --> 00:23:04,079
fully point No he's not. No, he's not like, but

485
00:23:04,599 --> 00:23:08,880
he does those things where he gets into, you know,

486
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,680
the frustration level of the opponents right, Like he'll throw

487
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,319
a shoulder, he'll bump someone after the whistle, like, he'll

488
00:23:15,319 --> 00:23:19,759
do some of that stuff. I think that is equally

489
00:23:19,799 --> 00:23:22,680
important in the playoffs as well, like just having that

490
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,559
guy who's just want to stir shit up and be

491
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,119
that to that type of guy. And is that does

492
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,759
that make him more important than their Nie Smith? Probably not,

493
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,400
not unless he suddenly becomes far more like volume oriented

494
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,359
in his three point shooting. But I do like the defense.

495
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,759
I do like his game overall, and I also like

496
00:23:43,799 --> 00:23:45,680
aaron Ne Smith off the bench as a sort of

497
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,079
like a two way wing where size might not be

498
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,119
as big of an issue, because I do both him

499
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,119
and Shepherd are both they're both six six, but Ben Shepherd,

500
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,920
in my opinion, plays bigger in many ways.

501
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,599
Speaker 1: Which is I think you're right, but which is weird

502
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,839
because Ben Shepherd is listed as like forty pounds lighter

503
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,160
than Nimith. But I think your point is I actually

504
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,119
agree with what you're saying.

505
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 2: I want to be that clear. Yeah, So what does

506
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,839
he list at one ninety that had Look that has

507
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,680
to be wrong. I walked past him in Paris. That

508
00:24:16,839 --> 00:24:17,519
has to be wrong.

509
00:24:17,599 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 1: But is he I think Nei Smith is listed at

510
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:20,279
two fifteen, two twenty.

511
00:24:20,279 --> 00:24:22,039
Speaker 2: Did he bridge that gap just yet?

512
00:24:22,039 --> 00:24:24,839
Speaker 1: But even be look back to Ben Shepherd's first summer week,

513
00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:27,359
there was like that dude just like guarding big? So

514
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,960
like he, I I just and this is like Nie

515
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,960
Smith has not been shooting the ball great, at least

516
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,640
from beyond the arc since coming back. I probably still

517
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,119
trust him more as a shooter, which is probably why

518
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,119
I default to him as right. Okay, but the fact

519
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,400
you're I guess, does it bode well for them that

520
00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:45,960
you would think or that we believe that the argument

521
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,799
for how that fifth spot can be filled out is

522
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,079
more debatable than oh, it needs to be this guy.

523
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think it is. And by the way,

524
00:24:53,839 --> 00:24:56,640
this is not in any way related to like playoff

525
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,079
chances and whatnot. I've been looking for you know, I

526
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,119
go on Basketball Reference all the time, so you know

527
00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:05,480
the players headshots are in there for the entire season.

528
00:25:05,519 --> 00:25:07,400
I think even going back to last year, it is like,

529
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,000
who does Ben Sheppard remind me of? And then it

530
00:25:10,079 --> 00:25:14,119
hit me just last week, Chandler Hutchinson. Are those two twins?

531
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:19,160
Like are we what the hell are you trying to

532
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,720
denigrate Ben Sheppard? Or are you just coming no, no, no, period.

533
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,799
I'm thinking we have one of those Woody Halls and

534
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,559
Matthew McConaughey situations on our hands where they might actually

535
00:25:29,599 --> 00:25:32,599
genuinely be brothers where we don't know like that. That

536
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:39,920
is uncanny, uncanny, Dan, So contender? Are they a contender?

537
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:41,640
Could you see this team?

538
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: And I would say, like, you're like not even confidence meter,

539
00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:47,039
but they would have to have more and we don't

540
00:25:47,079 --> 00:25:48,319
want to add all this up and it needs to

541
00:25:48,319 --> 00:25:50,839
be one hundred percent exactly right, right? Do they have

542
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,400
more than like a ten percent chance or something of

543
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,799
making the conference finals again in the.

544
00:25:56,759 --> 00:25:59,559
Speaker 2: East, right, Can I hatch my bed a little bit? Nope,

545
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:01,720
I'm not. I'll let you, but yes you can, all right,

546
00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:04,880
because I'm got into I'm going to I think this

547
00:26:05,039 --> 00:26:07,319
kind of boils douts to Tyreese. This is like the

548
00:26:07,319 --> 00:26:10,880
most simplistic thing ever. You know, he's been at what

549
00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:15,279
like eighteen and nine I want to say something along

550
00:26:15,319 --> 00:26:18,400
those lines eight well, not even eighteen and eight and

551
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,559
a half. Oh good, if he steps a little more

552
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,039
up to that challenge of being like that dude you

553
00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:29,480
know who averaged twenty six and twelve over the first

554
00:26:29,519 --> 00:26:33,559
half of last season, for example, I think your odds

555
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,759
of making it into Morton Dan, you know, championship equity

556
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,799
territory increases dramatically. So if during the second half of

557
00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:46,079
this regular season, Hallie is like, all right, like I've

558
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,000
just taken a kick the back seat for the for

559
00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:49,839
the first half of the year. Now I'm back to

560
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,079
being you know that guy. Yeah, I'm gonna call him

561
00:26:53,079 --> 00:26:54,119
a championship contenter.

562
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna call them this is relative to

563
00:26:58,480 --> 00:26:59,920
the East, and maybe you could just sit there and

564
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,160
say that they are like there's only two contenders in

565
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,519
the East. If that's like real legitimate contenders, I think

566
00:27:08,079 --> 00:27:11,839
I have more faith in them than the Knicks. I

567
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,119
believe that when you look at what their biggest flaws

568
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:14,880
are supposed to be.

569
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:15,839
Speaker 2: Both of these.

570
00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:18,039
Speaker 1: Teams, you would say on the defensive end, I think

571
00:27:18,079 --> 00:27:22,039
we've just seen maybe not like a higher peak gear,

572
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,319
but a more sustainable peak gear from Indiana on the

573
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,359
defensive ends, and there's just there's more depth there for

574
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,160
them to play around with if they even though I

575
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:31,799
really believe that it needs to be. Nie Smith is like,

576
00:27:31,839 --> 00:27:34,039
if you're looking for that, right, let's close out the

577
00:27:34,039 --> 00:27:35,839
fot like the final five man lineup.

578
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,279
Speaker 2: And That's where I'm at with Indy.

579
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: So I guess I would say that makes them a contender,

580
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,359
which is just nobody should trust that given what I

581
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,240
said about Indiana two and a half months ago.

582
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 2: So basically, this entire Indiana exercise has just been completely moved. Great.

583
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: This is just me like sort of paying my penance

584
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,319
for having dismissed them for the entire year. Our next

585
00:27:56,319 --> 00:27:59,920
team up, though, after the Pacers, is the Miami Heat.

586
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,519
Prior to the Jimmy Butler trade, more I don't think

587
00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:05,000
they're sitting there as we record this, but they're gonna

588
00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:07,759
have more bodies available. They've gotten like into sixth place

589
00:28:08,279 --> 00:28:10,200
in the East, and they're a fascinating team. I know

590
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,920
it's not pertinent to this exercise, but they need to

591
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,240
make the playoffs so that they can convey that pick

592
00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:18,240
to Okay see and don't like, don't set up years

593
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,000
in twenty six and twenty eight when they're gonna owe

594
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,880
two unprotected picks out? Are they based off what you've

595
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,799
seen from BAM at a baiom from Tyler Hero Now

596
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:29,319
they were gonna add Wiggins and Daveion Mitchell is super

597
00:28:29,319 --> 00:28:32,079
interesting as part of hashtag heat culture, and of of

598
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,640
course Kyle Anderson khalil Ware like that element next to BAM.

599
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,799
Speaker 2: How do you feel about this team? I'm of two

600
00:28:39,839 --> 00:28:42,200
minds of this team. I'm almost at that point where

601
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,720
I'm like, just go make the playoffs so you don't

602
00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:48,000
relinquish that draft pick, and then the summer make a

603
00:28:48,039 --> 00:28:50,920
rebuild or not. Me not necessarily a full on rebuild,

604
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:56,119
like a retool process, perhaps, even though I wouldn't honestly

605
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,920
be a posed to a full tear down necessarily for Miami.

606
00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:02,680
It's never gonna happen while while pat Riley is there.

607
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,640
But I'm wondering, like, what is the upside with this

608
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,079
team even with Wiggins? Like who is that guy? Like

609
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,079
history tells us you need to have that guy to

610
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,480
go to the finals, to make, you know, to become

611
00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:19,200
a champion. Do they have that? I don't think so.

612
00:29:19,359 --> 00:29:21,720
And because they don't have that, dude, I'm a little

613
00:29:21,799 --> 00:29:22,559
bit skeptical.

614
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's and I think specifically, if we were to

615
00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:29,240
isolate it to one end of the floor, they don't

616
00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:33,000
have that guy on offense. As good as Tyler Hero

617
00:29:33,119 --> 00:29:35,680
has been this year and as good as bam Adebayo

618
00:29:35,799 --> 00:29:38,279
could be, I think bam Adebayo, even at his peak,

619
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,920
we've kind of long since known, Okay, this is not

620
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,119
going to be someone who can headline your offense really

621
00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:47,400
at any point. Maybe for tiny stretches, but he's even struggled,

622
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:48,920
like when you just want him to do things without

623
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,720
Jimmy Butler. And this year, their offense, when bam and

624
00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:55,480
Tyler Hero play without Jimmy Butler, their offense is in

625
00:29:55,519 --> 00:30:00,319
the fifteenth percentile. And Andrew Wiggins doesn't he'll space hit

626
00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:01,920
threes he's more plug and play than ever.

627
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: He'll fit their defensive motif.

628
00:30:04,279 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: And that's why they're interesting, is that this team like

629
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:08,200
they can be super big like you have if you

630
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,680
want to play Wiggins, khalil Ware and bam Adebayo, that's

631
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,720
pretty jumbo. And and I know Bamdabao is not conventionally huge,

632
00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:18,039
but he can play like he can play huge, So

633
00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:20,960
I don't I'm with you, and I like when we

634
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,839
say they're missing that guy. Is that if you needed

635
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,480
a best you don't want him to be a defensive liability,

636
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,000
but at least you can say, okay, well we have

637
00:30:27,359 --> 00:30:30,880
like someone who could anchor a championship defense. They just

638
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,480
don't have that player who can spearhead a championship offense.

639
00:30:34,359 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 2: Right, they don't have a dam liller. No, I'm sorry,

640
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:38,400
I'm sorry.

641
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,799
Speaker 1: Look, I did you enjoy like kind of just watching

642
00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:46,000
from afar the Portland media trailing the Miami like response

643
00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:47,880
like they should just send Jimmy to where he wants

644
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,480
to go, like he's he's earned it, as like someone

645
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,839
who had no stake in that race.

646
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,359
Speaker 2: I very much enjoyed. Look, I love all that. I

647
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,000
love the spiciness. By the way, I realized the other

648
00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:03,799
the other week the kill will where ranked first, like

649
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,880
on FanDuel and whatnot, like those places as a rookie

650
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,279
off the year candidate, Like what the hell right?

651
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: But like I was actually thinking about this too, and

652
00:31:12,279 --> 00:31:14,119
part of it was just like the stuff we've seen

653
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,400
from Justin Edwards and if A J. Mitchell is gonna

654
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,839
be hell again, like putting together all rookie teams this year,

655
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,480
We've already done it twice on this podcast is going

656
00:31:22,519 --> 00:31:24,119
to be a bloodbath. And I don't know that it's

657
00:31:24,119 --> 00:31:27,200
necessarily a compliment to the rookie class, but it's just

658
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,079
sort of like these guys just get Like khalil Ware

659
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:32,720
wasn't even on the periphery for like a quarter of

660
00:31:32,759 --> 00:31:34,839
the season, and now I did not see that he

661
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,440
was a favorite to win Rooky No.

662
00:31:36,599 --> 00:31:39,799
Speaker 2: I mean he's awesome. I liked him a ton coming

663
00:31:39,839 --> 00:31:43,960
into the draft, a ton. I actually thought he was

664
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,960
the guy the Pelicans should just go above and beyond

665
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,119
to go find because I think his fit would Sion

666
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,400
would have been ridiculous. Are you saying he could have

667
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,519
saved their season? I'm not saying he couldn't. Let's just

668
00:31:55,559 --> 00:31:59,960
put that way. I'm not saying he couldn't, No, I'm

669
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,400
but I'm saying, like for a team that's so so

670
00:32:03,799 --> 00:32:06,359
you know, dramatically has has missed the point of how

671
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,920
built around Zion in the right way. That was a

672
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,799
guy who would have fitted. It's funny, right because we're

673
00:32:13,799 --> 00:32:16,160
talking about that guy that them not having that guy.

674
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,079
If Kiloware next year becomes that guy, so many of

675
00:32:20,119 --> 00:32:23,440
their issues just gonna solve themselves. Do you think that

676
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,480
he can be that guy for them on offense? That's

677
00:32:26,519 --> 00:32:29,400
the question, right because he is relying on others setting

678
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,440
him up, and like, do you do they have that

679
00:32:31,599 --> 00:32:35,400
guy who can also lay on the ball for thirty

680
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,039
five minutes per game, who can consistently break down a

681
00:32:38,119 --> 00:32:40,559
defense and dish it off Like that's not Tyler Hero,

682
00:32:40,759 --> 00:32:44,480
that's definitely not Zario's year. Like, I that's the thing.

683
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,839
They need some cohesion here. I don't know how you'll

684
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,799
optimize him, even though he can be a tremendous center,

685
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,440
Like do they have the guard play to optimize his situation?

686
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,359
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just certainly Terry Rozier is not gonna

687
00:33:02,359 --> 00:33:05,680
help out there, and they're even what I think is

688
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,920
tough for someone like him and maybe even that front

689
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,240
court moving forward is they haven't. I know Wiggins can shoot,

690
00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:12,519
but just when you look at some of the guys,

691
00:33:12,559 --> 00:33:14,839
like are they gonna play Davion Mitchell and Kyle Anderson

692
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,960
a time? Like those are not two guys that are

693
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,519
going to space for you. This team is definitely built

694
00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:23,480
to raise defensive hell, but part of just like for

695
00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:25,960
someone like a khalil Ware or even like bam Adebaio

696
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,920
at points or just other secondary guys, is how much

697
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,079
space do they have to operate or to work away

698
00:33:31,079 --> 00:33:34,200
from the ball And if teams are just okay kind

699
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,000
of leaving ever so many people on Miami, Who's like,

700
00:33:37,279 --> 00:33:39,279
who are you? It's Tyler Hero And then who else

701
00:33:39,279 --> 00:33:41,240
are you worried about, like really burning you from the

702
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:42,519
perimeter right now?

703
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: Nobody, no one, no one.

704
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: So that would be my biggest question for them, And

705
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,400
I would say I do not have them as a

706
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:50,000
as a context.

707
00:33:50,119 --> 00:33:52,279
Speaker 2: I don't either, and I do think they have some

708
00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:57,400
pretty big questions to ask themselves over the course of summer. Also,

709
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,920
just flying on the radar a little bit slightly concerned

710
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,680
about Haimi Hawk has the second year, Like I thought

711
00:34:04,079 --> 00:34:07,160
the moon of him last year and not sure what

712
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:07,960
the hell happened.

713
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, even him and Pods both And even though Pods

714
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,239
has played since he came back from injury, like he's

715
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,639
looked a lot better. So and it's come over like

716
00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:19,679
a semi extended period of time. I feel like Kaimi

717
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,199
Hawks has not had that type of a stretch, especially

718
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:26,239
on offense this year. Maybe I'm missing something, but yeah,

719
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:27,800
I think it's totally fair and I sort of have

720
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:28,639
that discussion.

721
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I'm with you. I don't trust Miami whatsoever.

722
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,639
I think they should do whatever they can to make

723
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,320
it's so we are right, let's get it into the

724
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,480
playoffs so we can lose our draft pick. But like,

725
00:34:38,519 --> 00:34:41,760
that's the situation we're in. Uh, it makes a lot

726
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,280
of sense. Go do it, and then over the course

727
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,760
of summer, maybe have a heart to heart with pat

728
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,079
Riley and go, look, we know that you don't want

729
00:34:49,079 --> 00:34:52,239
to rebuild old man. We get it, but might be

730
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,159
time it could.

731
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:55,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're going to be a team to watch over

732
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:58,719
the offseason for sure. Next team on the docket more

733
00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:04,559
the Bucks. Are they a title contender? And before we

734
00:35:04,639 --> 00:35:06,719
say that, all right, does it shock you to know

735
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,320
that they have the second worst defense against top twenty

736
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,119
offenses for the year, so for the entire year. I'm

737
00:35:13,159 --> 00:35:14,400
not filtering out anything there.

738
00:35:15,519 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 2: It actually does surprise me. Yes, I was a little bit, honestly,

739
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,800
I was shocked when they were Look, look, there's no

740
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,679
question that their defense throughout the course of the season

741
00:35:25,679 --> 00:35:30,760
has been inconsistent. But that's that number is that's definitely surprising. Yeah,

742
00:35:31,119 --> 00:35:33,119
you read that right, right, it's filtered.

743
00:35:33,639 --> 00:35:36,039
Speaker 1: Cleaning the glass filters out garbage time too, so that's

744
00:35:36,079 --> 00:35:38,639
not even there can be early garbage time, of course.

745
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 2: But god, okay, yeah, now that's concerning. Uh and how

746
00:35:42,519 --> 00:35:45,079
long has Giannis out was like like forty weeks or

747
00:35:45,199 --> 00:35:47,840
he's through the All Star break at least? Oh, okay,

748
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:54,119
that's not necessarily too bad. Their their top end talent

749
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:54,800
is there.

750
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:59,039
Speaker 1: I will say I tried to justify the Kyle Kuzma

751
00:35:59,039 --> 00:36:00,760
trade for them, and they're still part of me that

752
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:06,119
does understand it. But in that playoff context, I don't

753
00:36:06,119 --> 00:36:08,800
know if he's gonna give you enough lift defensively to

754
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,519
offset the playmaking and just the I mean the shot

755
00:36:13,599 --> 00:36:16,480
making from Chris Middleton and then also and I feel

756
00:36:16,679 --> 00:36:18,480
at least I'm sure I'm guilty of doing this, and

757
00:36:18,519 --> 00:36:20,480
I've just seen so much of Chris Middleton and Yannis

758
00:36:20,519 --> 00:36:22,320
that I'm all like, this is that will be top

759
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,079
of mind for me, but I'm sure it happens elsewhere,

760
00:36:24,079 --> 00:36:26,960
and I forget, you lose a ton of chemistry between

761
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,960
Chris Middleton and Yannis at ten to Kompo, and that

762
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,679
even peak Kyle Kuzma has no chance in hell of

763
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,079
replicating any of that synergy offensively. But look, i mean,

764
00:36:36,079 --> 00:36:39,719
the top end talent here is still intriguing, and you

765
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,039
have if Yannis is healthy and Dames but like Dames

766
00:36:43,079 --> 00:36:46,480
had a really good year overall, I just I want

767
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,519
to call them a contender, but I'm trying to like

768
00:36:48,599 --> 00:36:50,639
really keep the bar because I look at the East

769
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,760
and this is maybe this is flawed. I'm like, there

770
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,199
can't be more than four real contenders in the Eastern

771
00:36:56,199 --> 00:36:58,679
Conference just based off what we've seen this year, And

772
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,840
so I find myself kind of grappled at this point.

773
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,679
All right, there's Orlando, there's Milwaukee, there's the Knicks, and

774
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,079
as I've already said that, the Pacers are one. So

775
00:37:06,159 --> 00:37:09,159
where am I going with the other one? Can you

776
00:37:09,199 --> 00:37:11,400
sell me on this team or sell me against this team.

777
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:12,320
Where are you at with them?

778
00:37:12,519 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 2: So let me just get into the Middleston Kusma deal

779
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,199
first and foremost, because here's how I viewed it, Like

780
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:23,159
they came to the realization Milwaukee that Chris can only

781
00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:25,440
give you about a half per game, like twenty three

782
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,199
to twenty four minutes per game. And while those minutes

783
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:32,039
he's effective, like obviously he's a very efficient shooter. He's

784
00:37:32,079 --> 00:37:33,840
a guy who can still set guys up. He can

785
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,679
still do a lot of the Chris Middleton things. You

786
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,039
just can't have them out there for forty five minutes

787
00:37:39,039 --> 00:37:43,400
anymore because of like injury concerns, age Stamini issues, their

788
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,760
ability issues, whatever. So I think they pulled this trigger

789
00:37:47,519 --> 00:37:50,719
fully knowing they gave up, you know, the superior talent.

790
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,119
But Kusman coming back is a guy who you can

791
00:37:54,159 --> 00:37:57,360
probably play thirty five minutes over the course of a game.

792
00:37:57,519 --> 00:37:59,599
And I think that's kind of where they went, like, Okay,

793
00:37:59,679 --> 00:38:02,760
we can get a guy who's a little worse, potentially

794
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,840
a lot worse if things don't shake out, but he's

795
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,639
at least more available to us in terms like we

796
00:38:08,679 --> 00:38:11,440
don't have don't have to put a minute restriction on him.

797
00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:14,320
We don't have to play him just one half of basketball.

798
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,079
We can play him three quarters. We can actually just

799
00:38:17,199 --> 00:38:20,320
get more minutes out of him, and that's gonna presumably

800
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,639
help our top tier talent. And I sort of get

801
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,840
that line of thinking if that's how they approached it.

802
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:32,199
That said, losing valuable shooting, efficient shooting, someone who can

803
00:38:32,519 --> 00:38:35,719
both score off the bounce and in catch and shoot situations.

804
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:41,679
That's it's a gample of you know, dimensions. So I'm

805
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,480
I'm very uneasy about the trade, but I also understand

806
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,000
they need to do something. I just can't escape this, Dan,

807
00:38:49,039 --> 00:38:51,559
which is what it all boils down to. And this

808
00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:54,480
is me answering your question when you have an in

809
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:59,559
prime Giannis antot Coompo, I just can't sit here and say,

810
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:02,800
oh no, you're you're not not a contender. I just can't.

811
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,079
I'm sorry, It's it's extremely simplistic, but this is a

812
00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:11,199
legitimate MVP candidate, assuming Joe he makes the cut for

813
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:16,000
games played, Oh yeah, great, point Yeah, like thirty two points,

814
00:39:16,559 --> 00:39:20,039
twelve plus rebounds, six assists per games. Still solid defense

815
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:23,679
despite you know the team ranking. You just read up

816
00:39:23,679 --> 00:39:27,039
a couple of minutes ago. This, dude, is it? And

817
00:39:27,079 --> 00:39:29,400
you have Dame who's playing a fish in basketball as

818
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:34,719
a secondary guy. Are they a contender? It's oh god,

819
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,960
this is like Sophie's choice. This is so hard.

820
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,559
Speaker 1: It's I will say their margin for errors that and

821
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:41,920
this would have been true with Chris Middleton. Yeah, to

822
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:45,360
be clear, it's just almost non existent. Because you even

823
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,559
they're like a plus four points per one hundred posessions.

824
00:39:47,559 --> 00:39:50,639
When Brooke Johannis and Damian Lillard play without Chris Middleton

825
00:39:50,679 --> 00:39:54,239
this year, that's not that's not an elite mark. It's like,

826
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,039
it's you're comfortably winning those minutes, but that's not a

827
00:39:57,079 --> 00:40:00,400
super elite mark. I do think I probably default to

828
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,079
you that I just feel as if you have gianness

829
00:40:04,159 --> 00:40:05,639
and if you have a game playing like this, why

830
00:40:05,639 --> 00:40:07,639
wouldn't you be a contender. And then I'm also like,

831
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,079
maybe you need to open up your criteria in the

832
00:40:10,119 --> 00:40:12,599
East because I feel like there are two teams that

833
00:40:12,599 --> 00:40:14,400
are head and shoulders above everybody else. And if you

834
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,119
told me that Milwaukee beat Team X whoever from the

835
00:40:18,119 --> 00:40:19,440
East that wasn't one of those two in a seven

836
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,760
game series, it wouldn't shock me. Do you like do

837
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,719
you eiw them as a threat to beat either Boston

838
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,320
or Cleveland in the East, though.

839
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 2: Probably more so Cleveland than Boston. But guess there's I

840
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,360
don't know what it is. There's a history there, and

841
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:42,119
Giannis seems to sometimes, uh channel the worst version of

842
00:40:42,559 --> 00:40:46,000
himself against Boston. I don't know if he becomes overeager

843
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,880
or it's like, oh, I just I have to prove

844
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,239
myself against this team and it just doesn't work out.

845
00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:54,519
So there's a part of me that just goes to

846
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,679
history there. I'm just more inclined to trust Boston and Milwaukee.

847
00:41:00,679 --> 00:41:05,119
But I could see them give Cleveland absolute hell, I

848
00:41:05,159 --> 00:41:08,679
could see them. I could see Cleveland struggling to contain

849
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,480
Gianni's in every sense of the like, could you could

850
00:41:11,519 --> 00:41:14,280
you not see the scenario of Giannis coming into early

851
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,679
games against Cleveland and getting immediately two fouls on Evan Mobley,

852
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,119
like immediately, I could see that. I could. I could

853
00:41:21,119 --> 00:41:21,400
see it.

854
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,199
Speaker 1: But they're also just now that you have Hunter, like

855
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,280
you could kind of throw him to the wolves and

856
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,159
have him to a lot of the honest stuff.

857
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:32,039
Speaker 2: That's true, that is true some one. This is probably

858
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:34,880
the toughest one for me, Like I just I can't

859
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,800
in good conscience sit here and say that a team

860
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,360
with with prime Jannismbo is a championship contender. But at

861
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,239
the same time Doc Rivers is still roaming those that sideline,

862
00:41:45,599 --> 00:41:46,320
so like.

863
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 1: The two for sure in the East, and probably if

864
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,880
we were to tier the entire league like they're not,

865
00:41:55,079 --> 00:41:57,039
they're not a Tier two contender overall.

866
00:41:57,159 --> 00:41:59,159
Speaker 2: No, no, should we should we just be a little

867
00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:02,199
bit harsh and the pretenders.

868
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,679
Speaker 1: I think I'm there, I don't. So here's what I'm

869
00:42:04,679 --> 00:42:09,320
struggling with. And maybe would you rather have Chris Middleton

870
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,519
in the role that he was playing this year, minutes

871
00:42:12,519 --> 00:42:15,960
and everything, and there's of course the the durability aspect

872
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,800
of it, or Kyle Kuzma because he can play thirty

873
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,559
five minutes a game, or however much you want to

874
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,800
run him out for Because I think I would still

875
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:28,159
rather have Chris Middleton. And when I in my head

876
00:42:28,159 --> 00:42:29,960
and I just don't know whether I've just decided this

877
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,760
is what it needs to be, that then to me

878
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,719
is not a win now move That was Okay, we're

879
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,880
ducking the second apron for this year, and then like

880
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,559
we're a little bit more flexible moving in to next year,

881
00:42:40,119 --> 00:42:43,000
and maybe they didn't want to pay Middleton long term

882
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:44,400
if they thought he was gonna opt out and want

883
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,639
more money, or didn't want his player option on the books, whatever,

884
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,760
And so I am almost inclined to call them upper

885
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,079
tender because when you make a trade like that where

886
00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:57,679
I don't think it materially improves, and I think that

887
00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:00,000
there's an argument between me that actually hurts your title chance.

888
00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:02,559
But I don't know if I'm making that too much

889
00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:03,880
of a binary proposition.

890
00:43:04,159 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 2: No, I think that is fair because you're also removing

891
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,880
one of the best playmakers on the team. And like,

892
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,599
with all due respect to Kyle Kusma, who can play,

893
00:43:11,639 --> 00:43:14,679
make who can pass, it's not in the same vicinity

894
00:43:14,679 --> 00:43:18,519
as Middleton too, So it's not just the scoring. Yeah,

895
00:43:18,679 --> 00:43:22,079
I would probably prefer that the twenty three minutes per

896
00:43:22,159 --> 00:43:25,840
game for him. I think that's that's basically the Bucks's

897
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,039
issue overall, though, like just they're so scarce on talent,

898
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,519
Like there's not a whole lot there when you go

899
00:43:32,599 --> 00:43:34,719
down the list, you were kind of hoping for more,

900
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,679
I want to say, out of Gary Trent Junior, you

901
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,880
were hoping for more out of townum prints. You were

902
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,880
hoping for more out of those guys just hask materialized.

903
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,559
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can also take a team

904
00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:48,360
that actively traded for Kevin Porter Junior this season all

905
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,559
that seriously, either, yep, that's fair. Our next team, this

906
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,440
one is gonna I'm gonna twist myself into a pretzel here.

907
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,079
I think more are the New York Knicks contenders or pretenders?

908
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:03,559
Speaker 2: Contenders? I think that's the fair default.

909
00:44:03,599 --> 00:44:05,679
Speaker 1: But part of me wonders if it's due to a

910
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,760
dearth of other options, because the concerns about them, the

911
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,119
minutes of their starters, their relative shallownessts they all hold valid.

912
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,039
The thing I just keep coming back to is even

913
00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:18,760
when they're at full strength, how much does that matter

914
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,559
with Mitchell Robinson? Like what does the how much does

915
00:44:21,559 --> 00:44:23,559
he matter on defense if you're gonna play him next

916
00:44:23,559 --> 00:44:25,800
to Towns? And then what does that do to your

917
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,360
offense if you're removing the five out element from the

918
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,320
table for those stretches And then I know they've recently

919
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,599
had more what you would call trademark victories when you

920
00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:39,159
look at the shellacking of the Grizzlies. They beat the

921
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,039
Rockets too, right, I think that was the game I'm referencing, but.

922
00:44:42,199 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: I've watched them.

923
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:46,119
Speaker 1: You've seen them against Boston this season, and it's just

924
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,960
they seem so far away against that team specifically. And

925
00:44:51,039 --> 00:44:56,000
maybe I'm overweighting that, but I don't trust their defense

926
00:44:56,039 --> 00:45:01,400
specifically against the better teams or overall better offenses in

927
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,079
the NBA. And to get out of the East, you're

928
00:45:04,119 --> 00:45:07,480
going to have to face two of the best offenses

929
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,920
in the NBA in the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Boston Celtics.

930
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:17,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's fair. That is where I will give

931
00:45:17,159 --> 00:45:22,159
you my rebuttal in terms of their offensive effectivity. I

932
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,840
know that they're shallow, as you mentioned, but you're going

933
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:31,599
into a playoff context where rotations are going to tighten up.

934
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,079
At the very least, those guys are just gonna be

935
00:45:34,679 --> 00:45:38,480
all playing together. And I think when you have the

936
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:42,800
Jalen Brunson Karl Anthony Towns duo as your staple and

937
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,440
you can adjust on a game to game and basis,

938
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,639
and you have Mikail Bridges, who's kind of like a

939
00:45:47,679 --> 00:45:51,119
free roaming wing in terms of just shooting off the catch,

940
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,320
also creating off the bounce, and then you have OG's

941
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,400
like sort of even an afterthought at times offensively, which

942
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,440
I think is ridiculously a major luxury to have. And

943
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,440
then you even throw in Josh Hart, who's like, I

944
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,039
don't want to say he's a primary playmaker because obviously

945
00:46:08,079 --> 00:46:10,760
bruntson is that, but like then he's second, Like is

946
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,519
this second? Yeah? I mean he brings the ball up

947
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,880
a ton, Yeah, exactly, and he's you know, your second

948
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,599
best rebounder. He just does everything. I wrote an article

949
00:46:19,599 --> 00:46:21,639
about him over at FOG last month where it actually

950
00:46:21,639 --> 00:46:26,760
called him a star. I think he's dramatically underrated. So offensively,

951
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,320
I do think they can go toe to toe with

952
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,840
a lot of these teams. Yes, the defense is where

953
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,159
that's this digging point, right Can you stop them? Can

954
00:46:33,199 --> 00:46:37,199
you have consistent stops? And that's where maybe I still

955
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,960
have too much faith in Tom Thibodeau to adjust on

956
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,840
a game of the game basis when he comes to

957
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,639
the playoffs. I don't know. Maybe maybe I'm just a

958
00:46:44,679 --> 00:46:47,760
little bit too you know, too much of a tips lover.

959
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,159
Speaker 1: Well, I don't even I mean TIBs and if some

960
00:46:51,199 --> 00:46:54,360
of the minutes distributions, I know it's in a tired trope,

961
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:55,800
but I also think it's a valid one.

962
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 2: I think he's proven he can be more flexible.

963
00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: I just don't know if they have the person out

964
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,639
necessary for him because one of the things I keep

965
00:47:02,639 --> 00:47:04,519
coming back to as well, and maybe this is more

966
00:47:04,519 --> 00:47:06,800
of a testament to how well og was pre injury,

967
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,800
how good Josh Hart has been. You did not especially

968
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,280
at the time, but even after the Karl Anthony Towns trade,

969
00:47:12,599 --> 00:47:14,960
you didn't acquire McHale Bridges under the guys that he

970
00:47:15,039 --> 00:47:17,000
was gonna be your fifth best player, and that is

971
00:47:17,039 --> 00:47:18,000
what he has been for them.

972
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, this season, and that is.

973
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,559
Speaker 1: Concerning because it's okay, it comes through the lens of well,

974
00:47:23,559 --> 00:47:25,440
look at how good Josh Hart and Towns and og

975
00:47:25,519 --> 00:47:28,320
Ananobe have been. But it just feels like, and I

976
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,639
would say maybe I mean certainly on defense but also

977
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,519
on offense, that he might wind up mattering a lot

978
00:47:33,559 --> 00:47:36,719
more in the playoffs, because if you're looking for someone

979
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:38,559
who's gonna give you I don't want to say in

980
00:47:38,599 --> 00:47:40,360
every level threat, but like cal Anthony Town's when he

981
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,320
puts the ball on the floor, he's a really good passer,

982
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,960
but kind of more from the stand still stuff. So

983
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,280
like if he's gonna put his head down and go

984
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,079
for drives. That's great physicality aggression, but you might need

985
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,280
McHale bridges if you're looking for someone who can also

986
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,760
maybe punish teams from the perimeter, off the dribble a

987
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,280
little bit, like that's a part of his game that

988
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,199
has a better chance of panning out than it would

989
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,079
for in og Ananobi or and certainly a Josh Hart

990
00:48:02,079 --> 00:48:04,239
who again maybe better decision maker with the ball in

991
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,360
his hands, which is not as big of a threat

992
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,800
from mid range or three point range.

993
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 2: I forget because he seems like he's been going in

994
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,400
and out on that on the team. Landry Shammon, is

995
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,400
he around or like you see on the team or

996
00:48:17,519 --> 00:48:17,800
is he not?

997
00:48:18,559 --> 00:48:21,039
Speaker 1: No, he's on the team, not on the team, all right, Yeah, no,

998
00:48:21,079 --> 00:48:21,719
he is on the team.

999
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 2: He is on the team. See now, I got thrown

1000
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,280
off twice again because he got waves at one point

1001
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:28,880
and then re signed and then.

1002
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, he just located his shoulder and then they brought

1003
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,880
him back. They're also like they were sort of like

1004
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,599
skirting the roster minimums and they were so close to

1005
00:48:36,639 --> 00:48:37,400
the second apron.

1006
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 2: So yeah, he's on a guaranteed now right, Yeah, he'll

1007
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,719
be there through the end of the season. All right, great,

1008
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,559
See this is a guy who I would actually empower

1009
00:48:47,559 --> 00:48:48,960
it a little bit over the course of the second

1010
00:48:49,039 --> 00:48:51,880
half of the regular season. I understand that his his

1011
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,000
long range shooting is shaky. I understand that he's not

1012
00:48:55,159 --> 00:48:57,840
necessarily a defensive asset, and that's what you're talking about.

1013
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,000
But if I know, like if I'm the Knicks and

1014
00:49:01,039 --> 00:49:02,840
I know that the best way for me to move

1015
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,320
forward and to actually potentially win a series that is

1016
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:09,840
with overwhelming offensive volume, I'm going to need a guy

1017
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:14,679
to catch a rhythm before the playoffs. And Shammant more

1018
00:49:14,679 --> 00:49:17,559
than anyone needs those reps. He needs that rhythm, and

1019
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,079
he should be a guy who you can sort of

1020
00:49:20,119 --> 00:49:22,480
put into that rotation and just ask him to do

1021
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:26,639
one bloody thing, and that is just to panalize teams

1022
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,000
that want to double Brunson, that want to double Towns,

1023
00:49:29,039 --> 00:49:33,000
to want to double anyone. So I do think they

1024
00:49:33,039 --> 00:49:36,760
have a sort of solution. I'm not saying that Shammant

1025
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,039
is like a full time starter or anything, but like

1026
00:49:40,199 --> 00:49:42,559
I also don't think he's a ten minute player as

1027
00:49:42,559 --> 00:49:44,639
he's been this year. I think that's a little a

1028
00:49:44,639 --> 00:49:45,639
little ridiculous.

1029
00:49:46,159 --> 00:49:49,079
Speaker 1: Do how much value or injury do you assign to

1030
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,119
Mitchell Robinson the Knicks. Apparently the latest time on is

1031
00:49:52,119 --> 00:49:53,599
they want to back before March first, But like we've

1032
00:49:53,639 --> 00:49:56,039
heard a bunch of different timelines right at this point.

1033
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,760
I think some of the things we've seen against Boston specifically,

1034
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,480
is that they're just gonna to go after New York's

1035
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,400
week points where it's like Jolen Brunson, Karl Anthony Town's.

1036
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:09,079
Do you think Mitchell Robinson changes that type of matchup

1037
00:50:09,159 --> 00:50:11,880
issue enough for them defensively?

1038
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,039
Speaker 2: I mean, if people are going towards the rim, yeah,

1039
00:50:15,079 --> 00:50:17,920
that's gonna change things. But I also think teams are

1040
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,079
smart now and they are probably not going to do that.

1041
00:50:22,119 --> 00:50:24,320
Like it seems like Boston that average is like forty

1042
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:28,559
eight triples per game. They're basically gonna say, oh, look,

1043
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,639
Mitchell Robinson is in, We're gonna let's just take those

1044
00:50:31,639 --> 00:50:34,760
shots and then wait for him to be taking off

1045
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,159
the floor and then Okay, now we're gonna attack the basket.

1046
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,000
What I also called the wimpy philosophy. It's I think

1047
00:50:41,039 --> 00:50:43,519
teams are smart enough to do that. So it comes

1048
00:50:43,519 --> 00:50:48,719
down to how does Mitch influence the game on both

1049
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,960
sides of the court, because again, you can sort of

1050
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,880
offensively game plan around minimizing his impact.

1051
00:50:55,639 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: I am gonna call them a contender, but I feel

1052
00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:03,079
like I said, who do you feel strong more strongly

1053
00:51:03,119 --> 00:51:05,599
about as a contender, Indiana or New York or even

1054
00:51:05,599 --> 00:51:07,320
if you want to throw Milwaukee in there by the way, But.

1055
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,599
Speaker 2: I feel more confident with New York than I do Milwaukee,

1056
00:51:10,639 --> 00:51:14,079
for sure. I think it's a it's a more interesting

1057
00:51:14,079 --> 00:51:17,719
debate with Indiana. And I'll see this is where I'm

1058
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,320
just got awful right, because this is where I'm just

1059
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:22,639
going to lean into the stardom where I think, all right,

1060
00:51:22,679 --> 00:51:26,480
if it's Nicks Pacers, I'm just gonna trust Jalen Brunson

1061
00:51:26,559 --> 00:51:30,199
and Carnel Anthony. It sounds more than Tyrus Aalberton and

1062
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,360
Pascal Siaka. I think those there are two offensive forces

1063
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,239
in New York that are just so devastating in terms

1064
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:43,360
of offensive efficiency, scoring variety. So I'm going to lean them.

1065
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,119
Speaker 1: Nothing written in stone for me, but I think I

1066
00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:48,360
would probably prefer Indiana. And maybe I am reading too

1067
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,480
much into what we've seen from them recently, and then

1068
00:51:50,519 --> 00:51:54,920
maybe I believe that their optionality will matter more in

1069
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:56,679
the postseason than a lot of the times, not that

1070
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,519
optionality doesn't matter, but like how deep are you going into,

1071
00:51:59,519 --> 00:52:01,480
Like what line upster you're testing out at that point? Well,

1072
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,719
the backup front court spots with Toppin or if it's

1073
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,039
Thomas Bryant, or if they try to give Jarvis Walker

1074
00:52:06,079 --> 00:52:06,400
some run.

1075
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 2: How much does that matter?

1076
00:52:07,639 --> 00:52:09,599
Speaker 1: That's a close But again a couple of months ago

1077
00:52:09,639 --> 00:52:12,000
that that didn't even look like a debate. Our next

1078
00:52:12,039 --> 00:52:16,119
team in the East, the Orlando Magic mort Are they

1079
00:52:17,039 --> 00:52:19,480
a contender or big fat cowards?

1080
00:52:20,079 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 2: They are one year away? They are one year away? Well,

1081
00:52:24,159 --> 00:52:27,559
I'm sorry, are they without making any changes? Would you

1082
00:52:27,599 --> 00:52:28,639
view them as one year away?

1083
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: Or is this a team where it's let's get some

1084
00:52:31,559 --> 00:52:33,480
other f and shooting in here?

1085
00:52:33,599 --> 00:52:36,559
Speaker 2: Already? Go on, I'm baking in that this team is

1086
00:52:36,599 --> 00:52:39,800
going to go into the offseason and actually try to

1087
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:41,000
fill out some of their holes.

1088
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 1: Like, can I ask why you would bank on that

1089
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,760
when they've repeatedly shown that they're not going.

1090
00:52:45,679 --> 00:52:47,320
Speaker 2: To do that. Well, because I think this is the

1091
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,480
year where they kind of realize them Now is the time,

1092
00:52:49,559 --> 00:52:51,719
I mean, I hope. So otherwise we're looking at like

1093
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:56,920
Dallas Maverick's level commentstency here. I mean, the need for

1094
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,679
shooting is so clear. I understand their iology of like

1095
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,320
let's give Paolo and Frowns the ball and let's not

1096
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,480
play with a point guard, because that is so twenty

1097
00:53:05,519 --> 00:53:07,880
twenty five. No, it's not, No, it's not. You still

1098
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,199
need a play maker. You can give the ball to

1099
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,920
who is on the perimeter calling out stuff. So and

1100
00:53:14,199 --> 00:53:16,840
I understand that they want to turn Jalen Sucks into

1101
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,039
more of a decision maker. That's great, He's not that guy.

1102
00:53:20,199 --> 00:53:24,559
He's he's a defensive dynamo, but he's he's an off guard.

1103
00:53:24,679 --> 00:53:26,599
Let's just be real about it. Like the pursuit they

1104
00:53:26,639 --> 00:53:28,880
accept this the better. Like you can call him a

1105
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:30,920
combo if you want. That's not that doesn't make him

1106
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,679
a point. He's just not a point. Anthony Black, I like,

1107
00:53:35,159 --> 00:53:38,440
but the shooting is a concern still. And we knew

1108
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,440
he was going to be a project. But if you

1109
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,079
want to win now, if you want to win within

1110
00:53:42,119 --> 00:53:44,320
the next couple of win the next couple of years, rather,

1111
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,679
you just don't have the patience. Not saying you can't

1112
00:53:47,679 --> 00:53:49,559
give him minutes, but like you can't throw him into

1113
00:53:49,639 --> 00:53:52,320
like a starting role for example. I don't think unless

1114
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,519
he comes back and is like half Steph Curry next year,

1115
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,280
so they will have to find a point guard who

1116
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,519
can space the floor. They will have to make moves.

1117
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,480
I'm guessing Kobe White is going to be a name

1118
00:54:03,519 --> 00:54:07,079
that they have circled for next season. That wouldn't surprise

1119
00:54:07,159 --> 00:54:09,400
me whatsoever. I think he would fit in well there,

1120
00:54:10,079 --> 00:54:12,760
but this as of this year, I can't call him

1121
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,920
a contender. When they're hitting forty percent of their threes.

1122
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,599
I'm sorry, and I know that's that's neat.

1123
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, the only thing that I could actually disagree with

1124
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,000
on you is that you have more faith in them

1125
00:54:24,079 --> 00:54:26,639
moving forward than I do, because the talent is there.

1126
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,679
But I do think that they've kind of focused on

1127
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,880
we can't play guys with defensive or target guys who

1128
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:38,239
might be defensive liabilities. That type of mindset, I think

1129
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:42,000
is really harsh the variability of their offense. And maybe

1130
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:43,599
it looked like the way that Franz was playing at

1131
00:54:43,639 --> 00:54:45,920
the beginning of the year, and I had him on

1132
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,519
the back of my MVP ballot. But part of if

1133
00:54:48,559 --> 00:54:50,159
you want the Rolina match to get attention is they

1134
00:54:50,199 --> 00:54:52,559
need to be held to like this higher bar, and

1135
00:54:52,639 --> 00:54:55,199
to me, I'll even take it one step further and say, yeah,

1136
00:54:55,199 --> 00:54:58,000
I agree about their biggest need. But if they wanted

1137
00:54:58,000 --> 00:54:59,559
to play the way they're playing now, if you want

1138
00:54:59,559 --> 00:55:01,800
to test out that type of usage from Jay and

1139
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,760
Suggs bring in more shooting somehow, that is absolutely a

1140
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,159
trade you didn't have to go all in on to

1141
00:55:07,199 --> 00:55:10,840
acquire someone like that. And I worry that Okay is

1142
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,320
losing in the postseason or the playing torment ever ends

1143
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,840
up being exactly the way we're expecting you to lose,

1144
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:18,880
because that's what happened last year in the playoffs.

1145
00:55:19,119 --> 00:55:20,519
Speaker 2: Will that be the wake up call they need?

1146
00:55:20,559 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if I have a ton of faith

1147
00:55:22,519 --> 00:55:24,400
with them, And that's to me that's a bummer, because

1148
00:55:24,519 --> 00:55:27,320
I really do believe in a lot of the talent here,

1149
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:29,679
and of course specifically Palo, even though he hasn't played

1150
00:55:29,679 --> 00:55:32,199
great since coming back from injury. Franz too suffered a

1151
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,760
little bit. Like I really do believe in those guys. Now,

1152
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:39,079
I just there's not enough like variants in their offense

1153
00:55:39,119 --> 00:55:41,079
to where it's Okay more they can't shoot right now?

1154
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,639
Why don't they run? This team is not it's not

1155
00:55:43,639 --> 00:55:46,280
the most athletic team, but you can run with these guys,

1156
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,199
and yet after live rebounds they just slow it down

1157
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,400
and it's sort of watching them, it's you're not going

1158
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,800
to create enough advantages that way because you don't have

1159
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,079
the shooters in the half court to leverage around Palow

1160
00:55:57,559 --> 00:55:59,599
and Franz and it just I don't know why this

1161
00:55:59,679 --> 00:56:02,320
makes me so angry, but like they're a team that's

1162
00:56:03,079 --> 00:56:05,800
sure it is I read too much into them when

1163
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,480
they first sign KCP. I knew that didn't fix everything,

1164
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,559
but I was like, oh, they've entered their aggressive era

1165
00:56:10,679 --> 00:56:12,519
and it was just no, that was just sort of

1166
00:56:12,559 --> 00:56:13,679
like that apart.

1167
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 2: From the get go. I hated it. I really hate it,

1168
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:17,360
to be fair.

1169
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 1: He's the one since Genuary first who's kind of been

1170
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:20,760
hitting three in rotation.

1171
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 2: Great. Great, and then we ignore the first couple of

1172
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,320
months of the season. By the way, they have a

1173
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,800
solution who's healthy and on their roster. Well, I don't

1174
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,599
want to say like a solidified solution, but like they

1175
00:56:33,679 --> 00:56:36,639
have a guy who they should play a ton to

1176
00:56:36,639 --> 00:56:38,559
see if you can actually fix some of those issues.

1177
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,039
Jet Howard. You have a six to eight guy who

1178
00:56:42,159 --> 00:56:45,519
moves very very well who shoots in a high volume.

1179
00:56:45,639 --> 00:56:49,440
Some three historically is a pretty good shooter, could actually

1180
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,880
be more than just good if he gets the reps

1181
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,159
and he gets the opportunity. But no, no, no eleven

1182
00:56:54,159 --> 00:56:57,760
minutes per game, just limited opportunities where I'm like, really,

1183
00:56:58,039 --> 00:57:00,920
you want to go that route in stead that that's

1184
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,360
you want to go towards? Like I don't know, Gary

1185
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:09,800
Harris instead Caleb Houston, like why why just I that? Well?

1186
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:11,519
Speaker 1: Doesn't it come back to a little bit what I

1187
00:57:11,599 --> 00:57:15,079
was saying of they seem so reticent to play guys

1188
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,920
who can become defensive liabilities, and it's look at you,

1189
00:57:18,039 --> 00:57:20,519
even with all the injuries they've dealt through, but you

1190
00:57:20,639 --> 00:57:23,000
have the defensive infrastructure to shoulder more.

1191
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 2: Of these minutes.

1192
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,119
Speaker 1: And you could say, look the minutes that I've seen

1193
00:57:26,159 --> 00:57:28,519
from Jet Howard this year. I haven't come away thinking

1194
00:57:28,519 --> 00:57:31,599
that he's spectacular and going to answer everything, but he

1195
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,880
is in terms of options at your disposal now because

1196
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:39,000
we're like we're past the trade deadline, Like he's one

1197
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,519
of the better ones for what for what you need?

1198
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't even think he's that bad defensively

1199
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,480
from what we've seen also granted, the simple size is small,

1200
00:57:47,559 --> 00:57:50,000
so they have more data on him from practice and whatnot,

1201
00:57:50,039 --> 00:57:54,000
But his frame alone is pretty big. Like, I just

1202
00:57:54,119 --> 00:57:56,719
don't mind giving him a real shot, like give him

1203
00:57:56,719 --> 00:58:00,800
a shake, like devote the next twenty games of the seasons. Okay, Look,

1204
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,000
he's gonna have a place in the rotation. Not ten minutes,

1205
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,800
eleven minutes per game, just twenty twenty five. See what

1206
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:07,679
you have in him.

1207
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:09,559
Speaker 1: The one thing you said that caught me off guard,

1208
00:58:09,599 --> 00:58:11,159
and I've gotten these wrong all the time, But he

1209
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:12,079
is he six eight?

1210
00:58:12,159 --> 00:58:15,079
Speaker 2: I just looked, because the NBA has him at six six. No,

1211
00:58:15,199 --> 00:58:16,519
I'm pretty sure he's six eight.

1212
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,039
Speaker 1: Well that's even more inexcusable than if he's actually six eight.

1213
00:58:20,079 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 2: I thought he was. I had LaMelo's height wrong at

1214
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:23,440
one point two. I thought he was six y five

1215
00:58:23,519 --> 00:58:26,239
or so. I mean, I will tell you firsthand. I

1216
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,559
was in New York during the draft in twenty twenty

1217
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:32,440
three and I spoke with him. I interviewed him. I'm

1218
00:58:33,079 --> 00:58:38,400
six four in chees and he towered over me, and

1219
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,400
you wouldn't tower like people. All right. Actually, I actually

1220
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,320
have a better one because my brother was with me

1221
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:47,239
and he in choos he's six six and Jeff brothers huge.

1222
00:58:47,719 --> 00:58:50,239
Yes you met him, Yes you have, and he's six

1223
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:54,960
six and chees and he jet. I think we were

1224
00:58:55,039 --> 00:58:58,199
the ones who as the last question during media availability,

1225
00:58:58,239 --> 00:59:00,519
and he got up and left, he walked passed us,

1226
00:59:00,559 --> 00:59:03,480
and he was clearly taller than my brother by a

1227
00:59:03,519 --> 00:59:06,559
couple of inches. So if that's listed at six ' six,

1228
00:59:06,639 --> 00:59:07,559
I have some questions.

1229
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:09,239
Speaker 1: Bee Ball has him at six ' eight, but I

1230
00:59:09,239 --> 00:59:12,199
don't know, like the NBA thing now uses without shoes,

1231
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:14,519
right unless I have that wrong, and b ball ref

1232
00:59:14,599 --> 00:59:15,920
might not. I don't know if I mean, if he's

1233
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:17,199
six eight, he could have by the way, he was

1234
00:59:17,239 --> 00:59:20,280
young enough to where he could have theoretically grew. He's

1235
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:22,119
twenty one, right, so right, he came into league at

1236
00:59:22,159 --> 00:59:26,280
what was nineteen twenty, So like, if he's actually six eight,

1237
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:27,719
this is good.

1238
00:59:27,719 --> 00:59:30,519
Speaker 2: That makes me even angry. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he is.

1239
00:59:30,559 --> 00:59:33,840
He's Look, I can say with absolute certainty again from

1240
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:37,159
personal experience here of just having stood right next to

1241
00:59:37,239 --> 00:59:39,960
him and my brother, that he's more than six six,

1242
00:59:40,119 --> 00:59:43,480
for damn sure. So yeah, I can't.

1243
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,199
Speaker 1: It seems like to their like this is not a

1244
00:59:46,199 --> 00:59:48,360
Milwaukee Buck style when we were talking about the Knicks.

1245
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:49,239
Speaker 2: This is by design.

1246
00:59:49,599 --> 00:59:51,719
Speaker 1: I don't think they were expecting to get there, but

1247
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,559
I think they had the talent at least at full strength,

1248
00:59:54,599 --> 00:59:57,039
to where if they would have made some moves, maybe

1249
00:59:57,079 --> 00:59:58,760
one of which could have been really aggressive, whether it

1250
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,119
was over the off season or into the trade deadline,

1251
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:02,639
this could be a different conversation.

1252
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,519
Speaker 2: Right now. That's the only core list of teams that

1253
01:00:05,559 --> 01:00:05,880
we have.

1254
01:00:06,039 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if you believe that we're gonna talk

1255
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:10,320
about some rebuilding squads in the coming week or so

1256
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:13,239
as well. I don't know if you thought that Chicago

1257
01:00:13,639 --> 01:00:16,440
or Atlanta or Toronto or I think Detroit would be

1258
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,920
the tougher cut here. But they seem to have entered

1259
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:22,360
there like almost their Orlando Magic era in the sense

1260
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:25,360
of different teams. But Okay, they're good now, but they're

1261
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,880
still sort of rebuilding because they are like still bringing

1262
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,400
along these other younger guys and they're not meant to

1263
01:00:30,639 --> 01:00:32,440
They might make the playoffs this year, Okay, great, But

1264
01:00:32,519 --> 01:00:35,000
I don't view them as a and I'm sure some

1265
01:00:35,039 --> 01:00:36,400
Pistons fan will takes us an insult, but I just

1266
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:38,079
don't view them as a threat to win the title.

1267
01:00:38,079 --> 01:00:40,119
They could do things in free agency over the offseason.

1268
01:00:40,599 --> 01:00:42,480
It seems like they're approaching sort of that stage of

1269
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:43,960
their existence, right.

1270
01:00:44,079 --> 01:00:46,199
Speaker 2: I just I just have to ask, did the Pistons

1271
01:00:46,199 --> 01:00:49,679
get prime grand Hill back? Because if not, no, no,

1272
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:51,519
they're just not deserving on being in this.

1273
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: Prime grand Hill was a problem. That is just one

1274
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:55,920
of the big careers.

1275
01:00:56,039 --> 01:00:59,079
Speaker 2: He was an enigma. You could you couldn't do jack

1276
01:00:59,159 --> 01:00:59,920
about that dude.

1277
01:01:00,119 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: If he never gets injured, I feel like he's just

1278
01:01:03,559 --> 01:01:06,599
in the goat debates is probably extreme, but like he's

1279
01:01:06,639 --> 01:01:09,119
probably like top ten, top fifteen. Like that was just

1280
01:01:09,119 --> 01:01:12,039
a level of talent and versatility that Grant Hill had

1281
01:01:12,039 --> 01:01:13,199
to make right anyway.

1282
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 2: No, that he would have been in that conversation. I

1283
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,360
think it would have come down to titles, right because again,

1284
01:01:20,159 --> 01:01:22,960
like would he have ever won in title in Detroit?

1285
01:01:23,039 --> 01:01:26,039
I think they just failed to build a proper team

1286
01:01:26,079 --> 01:01:28,639
around him for all those years. Then he went to Orlando. Like, Okay,

1287
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:33,000
T Mac, does t Mac become that version without if

1288
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,320
Grant was fully healthy, I don't know the answer to that.

1289
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,039
There are a lot of ribble effects here, but Grant was.

1290
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:43,559
I mean, look, I love grand Hughes, Grant Hill slightly

1291
01:01:43,599 --> 01:01:47,639
above I'm sorry, sorry, just slightly above your co host.

1292
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:52,239
Speaker 1: I would never grant Hughes is unimpeachable on this podcast,

1293
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,199
I will say, and I say this without a hint

1294
01:01:54,199 --> 01:01:57,119
of snark. There was I think it was I can't

1295
01:01:57,119 --> 01:01:59,320
remember which reporter was, some Retroit so that Dennis Schreuder

1296
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,679
was beaming like after the trade of the Pistons, and

1297
01:02:01,719 --> 01:02:04,119
I was like, that's really cool that, like we've reached

1298
01:02:04,119 --> 01:02:06,639
a point where Detroit is good enough to where guys are.

1299
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,159
You know, it wasn't necessarily specific to Dennis Shuter wanting

1300
01:02:09,199 --> 01:02:12,280
to leave the Warriors for the Pistons, Like this team is.

1301
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,440
I thought they had a really solid deadline the way

1302
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:16,800
that they used their cap space to bring in someone

1303
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,960
like Dennis Shuter who fills peak. Dennis Shooter probably fills

1304
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:21,719
their biggest need in the way of the J and

1305
01:02:21,719 --> 01:02:25,159
Ivy injury. So that's just a team. I have them

1306
01:02:25,199 --> 01:02:26,800
pegged as a team to watch, like as we're going

1307
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:29,199
into the offseason and next year to see what they

1308
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,360
can do, what they will do, and whether they actually

1309
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,519
do take that next step. They're just they're not there now,

1310
01:02:34,559 --> 01:02:35,760
and they're not supposed to be.

1311
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 2: No do you have anything else to.

1312
01:02:38,679 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 1: Add or would you be able to tell our fine

1313
01:02:40,519 --> 01:02:43,119
listeners and watchers where they can find you and all

1314
01:02:43,119 --> 01:02:43,840
the stuff that you do.

1315
01:02:44,679 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 2: Yes, you can find me over a blue sky first

1316
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:49,719
and foremost. That's where I spend most of my time.

1317
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,800
I have moved on from the Elon musk Kel hole

1318
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,960
and you can find me at MSJ NBA. Over there,

1319
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,840
I usually share well most of my stuff because I'm

1320
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,840
so horrible that brings to link to my stuff. This

1321
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:04,199
is like a real problem that I have. Otherwise, you

1322
01:03:04,239 --> 01:03:06,559
can follow my work over at Yahoo Sports. You can

1323
01:03:06,559 --> 01:03:10,440
follow my work at Forbes. I mean actually taking a

1324
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,559
bit of a break from Sports Illustrated. But if you

1325
01:03:12,559 --> 01:03:14,000
want to go back and read some of my old

1326
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,360
stuff you can. That is that is your right to

1327
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,599
do so. You can also check out the NBA podcast

1328
01:03:20,639 --> 01:03:23,159
where I am. And if, by some miracle you speak

1329
01:03:23,239 --> 01:03:26,679
Danish or understand Danish, you can check out the podcast

1330
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,480
called a buzzer Beater. What is it You didn't teach

1331
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,239
me a Danish word this podcast? We had a rule,

1332
01:03:31,239 --> 01:03:33,679
You're gonna teach you one Danish word. True. See, I'm

1333
01:03:33,719 --> 01:03:35,840
so glad. I'm so glad. Okay, I have a good

1334
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:41,840
one for you. Actually, sol plela one more time. Soul

1335
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:47,039
plela means what are the sun classes sunglasses? All right,

1336
01:03:47,199 --> 01:03:51,400
so it's a direct translation to sun and classes. Okay,

1337
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:57,840
soul plea sol plela soul is so is the sun,

1338
01:03:58,079 --> 01:04:02,480
and brella is class I favorite. I don't know how to, well,

1339
01:04:02,519 --> 01:04:03,400
I kind of know how to.

1340
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:05,719
Speaker 1: I have like a borderline speech impediment with how nasily

1341
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:06,239
I am.

1342
01:04:06,639 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 2: I actually think you did it. Okay, It's look, that

1343
01:04:08,599 --> 01:04:10,239
was a tough word I threw out right there, because

1344
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,800
brella is like a very tough way for like the

1345
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,960
e in that word. It's spelled b r I l

1346
01:04:17,199 --> 01:04:19,960
l e R And the way that we say the

1347
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:23,079
e sound over here, that is something that virtually no

1348
01:04:23,199 --> 01:04:28,239
American really does. The er is like not you say er,

1349
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:31,199
We say yeah, and it's so please.

1350
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna mess it up now, But stay tuned

1351
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,719
for the next edition of Dan Learns a Danish word

1352
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,920
when we do the Western Conference Contender or pretender exercise.

1353
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:42,840
Until next time, and as always, on more in Myself's

1354
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:46,840
behalf shout out to Frank Neela Quina