Speaker 1: What is up, fellows, Echo's I am Damp Valley coming
at you with the one the only mister Mortensen of
Yahoo Sports Fame, the NBA podcast, Fame, Sports Illustrated Fame,
and I always forget one of the four?
Speaker 2: What's the other one? Which one did you mention? I
don't like Sports Illustrated Forbes Yahoo, Oh, I forgot Forbes.
Speaker 1: So of Forbes Fame too, MORET does a whole lot
and does it super well. We are here for one
of our trademark crossovers to talk about are these teams
contenders or not? Feels like a good time to take
stock of these teams post trade deadline. We're gonna do
Eastern Conference this round, and then we will do Western
Conference later on in the week. It's just an interesting
thought exercise to do at this time of year. But
first and foremost, mort how the heck are you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm doing well. I'm getting a little sick of like
my backdrop because I'm we moved in December and we're
still waiting for like a closet to come to be
delivered to right now. My office is just like, basically,
let's put all the crap that we have not organized
yet in there, so I'm like, I want to get
a proper setup now, So I'm like a little frustrated.
But outside of that, I'm tired Dan as well, Daddy.
We just got over the traded line and I worked
my ass off, which look, it's fun. It's always fun
to do the trade deadline, but my god, you are
just bombed for like three days at the very least,
especially after this.
Speaker 1: One, right, and you need the All Star You can
see players need the All Star break with the number
of just absences we're getting in the games leading up,
which is why it makes this exercise. It's fun, but
it's also sort of challenging because we just don't have
the samples with I mean, as we're recording this, Luca's
gonna make his debut tonight for the Lakers. We've seen
what two darn Fox games in San Antonio, so there's
just like a Chris Middleton hasn't even played.
Speaker 2: One three games, but I think I saw it too,
so there you go.
Speaker 1: So it's yeah, this is just a tough time a
year to get a hold of stuff. And there's also
I don't know if you've seen this before, there's a
lot of noise this time of year where I think
a lot of people associate with the end of the season,
and I tend to agree with them, but I believe
it was ESPN's Kevin Pelton did some sort of a
study a few years ago and found out that like
the stretch like January basketball specifically, so like we're only
just removed from that is like the most meaningless when
it comes to kind of determining long term trends or
like is this for real? And so that makes it
so tough because you're so inclined to be like the
calendar flipped, how has this team been doing since January one?
And then it's well, do I just dismiss everything that
I've seen right now? So I'm sure to hear your
thoughts on these teams, and if you're if you're ready,
let's let's dive into the Eastern.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, sir.
Speaker 1: First up, according to the alphabet, more the Boston Celtics.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 1: Look, there's a tough question for you, but I'm gonna
ask it. Yeah, is this team a championship contender?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Not complete, complete pretentor like I don't even know
how they won last year? No, of course, when you
have that type of defense when you have that type
of three point volume obviously, So I actually want to
turn this into like a real discussion because we could
basically just you know, skim through this one. They haven't
really played up to their usual standards over the last
month and a half. But like we agree that that's
just basically them saying, look, we're going to sacrifice periods
of time during the regular season just to ramp up
for the playoffs, right like, because I can't imagine that
we should take this last month and a half seriously, No,
I can't either.
Speaker 1: And there are two things, and there are quick things
that I think people have pointed to that I just
keep you dig into it, and it's just right. Maybe
it doesn't look great all the time, but the numbers
are what the numbers are, and people are worried about
they feel like their defensive gear just doesn't have it.
Boston is sixth in the league in points a lot
of profession against top ten offenses, that is, and if
you do top twenty offenses, they're still like in the
top five. So I can't bring myself to care about that.
And then the offense can buy down sometimes and it's
why aren't they operating with more urgency or it feels
too predictable more. They have the best half court offense
in the NBA against top ten defenses, and so I
think there probably are fair concerns to point to with
this team, but they have the vitals of a title contender,
because guess what the reigning NBA champion that is a
little banged up. You look at Tatum and Brown and
Drew Holiday. They're a title contender. Isn't that shocking?
Speaker 2: Completely? And they look they just additory Greg. I really
like that for him, I really do. I know that
he's not you know what he used to be. He's
getting older as well, but he's tough as nails and
he's a guy you can put into like, oh wait
a second before I get ahead of myself here, he's
still playoff eligible, right the cutoffs March first? Right? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
well yeah, okay. I just wanted to make sure he
should be.
Speaker 1: He'll be starting over Drew Holiday at some point, right.
Speaker 2: You would have magined no, but for real, like, if
let's say Drew actually goes down and you have to
like start, you know, an untraditional starting lineup in the playoffs,
you can actually rely on a guy like Tory Craig,
you can rely on him to play those mistake free
minutes where you can trust the defense, you can trust
some of the shot making. You can also trust that
he will attack an open paint like I just think
that's a spooky under the radar addition for them. So
just I have no worries whatsoever. I do wonder, like
if we we You know how in journalism you have
the red team that always has to like poke through
a story to figure out like, you know, what are
the holes here?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I wonder what would be like a red team exercise
for Boston, like how can you beat them? I how
can you beat them? I don't, I think, Yeah, I know,
it's I don't know.
Speaker 1: When you look at them on paper, if everyone's healthy,
it's tough to like come off with like an ingredient
for like success of how to beat them. I think
if you look at the way they've played, especially during
some of their tougher stretches, you can maybe see some
cracks and it's a lot of people focused on, Okay,
what is Jallen Brown shooting from three? And then like
some of that, even though the data is not always
gonna support this like some of the minutes without Tatum
have just not looked great for Boston. But you're not
gonna beat them when Tatum's off, Like Tatum's gonna play
a bunch in the postseason. Uh, if you look at
I guess the best way to frame will be with them.
What is the team, whether it's the East or the
West that you look at and say, what, Like they
seem as if they're built to be Boston, But I
ultimately think that it needs to be a team where
there's at least three guys who are just they're not
like not even not liabilities, but they're active assets against
Boston's perimeter personnel. And they can't it can't come at
the expense of like your offensive dynamism. And Cleveland comes close,
of course because of they have Alan and Mobley and
now they have Hunter. They also have if Dean Wade's healthy,
they have Isaac with Koro if he's healthy. But then
it's like they do have some pressure points on defense,
like Donovan Mitchell's defended a lot better this year, Darius
conin Shoulder's a lot of tough assign Like even that
team feels like in Cleveland's been spectacular this year.
Speaker 2: Don't get me.
Speaker 1: Wrong, even that team just I wouldn't call it a
recipe for beating right Boston, do you have like a
what would be? Do you have a recipe or there
like a matchup in mind, especially in the.
Speaker 2: Okay see okay, see for me, because of the defense
alone right there, I do think they would have been
a little bit more dangerous if they gotten some more
shooting in over the course of the trade deadline. But
like that is the one team because they also have
the size. I think that is one area you can
go in and influence it all. Like winning the rebound game.
Like I know that that people within the analytics community
have grown very sour on rebounding and saying it's over,
you know, overrated. I just can't get there, Dan. Maybe
I'm like leaning into my boomerism. I'm not sure, but
like I am still in love with quality rebounding. I
think rebounding so essentially, especially in the playoffs. So for
them to you know, trot out chet Holgren, I say,
a Hartenstein and also have quality rebounders at different positions,
that to me would be a major possible advantage. The
question is, though, with Boston taking you know what fifty
three is per game, some of those are gonna go along,
and then that sort of negates at least the interior rebounding.
So I kind of hope we get those two teams
in the finals because I think just from a basketball perspective,
like pure basketball, in terms of like day to day adjustments,
you know, schimatics, just the preparation level, it'll be porn
for us, just outright porn.
Speaker 1: I do think, and this is we're gonna get the
Cleveland in a second, Like if you're just a fan
of like good basketball or want the best matchups possible,
like remove your fandom from the equation, not use specifically,
of course, like it needs to be Boston or Cleveland
coming out of the East right now. It's just like
those are the teams that you look at as the
standard bearers for real title contenders. I don't think spoiler
alert on Cleveland or I guess some of the teams
to come. There's just not any one in the other
in the East that's near those two? Do you have
before we move on from like just it's an easy exercise.
We're kind of like trying to nitpick here. Would you
be more concerned whether it's against OKAC or not, Like,
where's Boston most beatable? Is it on their offense to
where it's okay, if the threes aren't falling, They're not
necessarily a team that draws a ton of free throws.
They don't generate a ton of riom pressure with their personnel.
And those, by the way, those are two areas where
people like to point to Jason Tatum. But he's just
got better in like those areas over time. So it's
not him specifically, or is it you look at the
defense and it's like, okay, some of those lineups aren't
gonna have a ton of size, and do you have
the same flexibility you know, to size up against some
whether it's an Okac or whether it's a Cleveland.
Speaker 2: No, it's definitely the shooting. It's definitely one of those.
Could you imagine just them going in like let's say
it's the finals against the Thunder and let's see over
the first two games, Boston goes like, I don't know,
like eight for I was about to say eight for
twenty eight, but they'll say twenty eight shots from range.
First quarter that's the quarter. But like, okay, so they
might go like, I don't know, well for forty eight, right,
if they go into if they have two of those games,
they're very, very beatable. And then suddenly the thunder up
to oh, because you can absolutely utilize that to your advantage.
So I think that's the answer the shooting potential shooting disparity.
We move on to the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Speaker 1: Now that Dan has his mic plugged in, everybody can
get excited.
Speaker 2: More. Here's another really tough question for you to answer.
Speaker 1: Here are the Cleveland Cavaliers a contender post trade deadline? Oh?
Speaker 2: I think they were before. Look, can we just talk
about like the Entre Hunter ending up there? How big
of a slam dunk that is? Like I understand that
there's a concern at times about one his health and
two oh is this like an outlier year? But I
something clicked in that man before the season, something clicked
like he was always, you know, decent. I think the
the the entire narrative of him being overpaid, like, yes,
he was overpaid, when I think it grew to such
a stents where you kind of forgot there was a
player in there as well, Like he's a player, and
a perfectly fine player. This year. He's certainly not overpaid
by any stretch of the imagination. He found his na
He's just his shot volume, his shot diet, his shot profile.
He kind of polished that off. It worked. I'm super
impressed with how he's looked all year. I was shocked
to see him get moved. I thought Atlanta was like,
all right, now we're getting real good value here. Guess
they were to the point where they were like, let's
cash in. But that's just great for Cleveland. This was
like sort of their missing link in a way. I
always felt like they had wings, but none of them
were really like off the same caliber or close to
the two guards and the two bigs. Now you have
sort of a bridge from your front court to your
back court. I love this acquisition a ton.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that Grant and I talked about that. That's maybe
the one move at the deadline that impacts the actual
championship race more than any other move.
Speaker 2: And it's look, they had some viable options.
Speaker 1: I think Dean Wade is great, but like you can't
rely on him for his health, and then you needed
someone who was not maybe not needed, but you would
prefer someone who's higher offensive volume, and that would be
hunter and even some of his we didn't talk a
lot about this, even some of his flaws in Atlanta,
which he's rained in, Like that's a dude who will
like he will try and do someone on one stuff.
It's not a huge part of his game anymore, which
is good. But to have that option, that flexibility, to
have the we talked a lot about the lineup optionality
now too. It's just sliding him up to the four
in one big lineups. It's just a lot easier and
makes a lot more sense than doing the same thing
with a Dean Wade or a Max Struce or even
in Isaaca Korro. So that you were right, they were
a contender beforehand, and I think they were such there's
such a no brainer contender, I think, especially when you
look at the way that Evan Mobley is played at
both ends this year, if you had to, you know,
sort of poke the needle and say, okay, well, what
is we did this with Boston, Like what is sort
of their potential undermining flaw.
Speaker 2: In terms of like trying to find what type of
weakness they have?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like what would you be most concerned about in
a playoff series or leading into the postseason in general.
Speaker 2: So I guess when you have your offense, you know
the vast majority of your offense being created by two
undersized guards. There's always this fear of when you're matched
up against bigger players, like can sustain a high level
of efficiency throughout the course of a full playoff series. Mitchell,
to his credit, always seems to somehow, some way find
his way. I think Garland this year looks more prime
than ever to do the same. But both those guys
are still like six one six ' two, to the
point where I'm like, we can't eb like ignoring that.
I'm not saying it's gonna be their downfall, not by
a long shot, but it is something where you're kind
of like, let's let's just keep that in the back
of our heads. Like if you're going up against Boston,
for example, Like how tall is Drue like six three,
six ' four and he's a bulldog. You have Derek
White who's like six five six y six and he's quick,
he's got long arms. It's those type of guys can
at least affect shooting percentages a great deal. So I'm
gonna say the size of the backcourt without being like
too critical because that sounds like a major point of
criticism for the Cavs, But like, don't don't make it
sound like that is the you know, the one thing
that could fall apart like that. There are different areas
like these two are gonna produce. It's not like they're
gonna go into the playoffs and average fourteen points per game,
like they're gonna get their twenty twenty five maybe even,
but it's gonna be on potentially inconsistent shooting percentages from
came to the game.
Speaker 1: I think you're focusing on the right stuff too, because
a lot of people might flip that and worry about
them defensively, like that small guard backcourt in the playoffs,
and it's through two kind of postseasons, we have proof
of concept that like, the Cows are mostly going to
have enough around them defensively, and so the question to
me should be on offense. And the only thing I
would add is what can make life harder on those
guys aside like, yes, if you're going up against Boston
or certain defenders, what does the supplementary three point shooting
around them look like?
Speaker 2: Like what type of space are they working?
Speaker 1: Because we've seen Evan Mobley was kind of hot from
three he's been I think he's at like thirty one
and a half percent since January one, Tiger Rome has
fallen off a little bit percentage wise, So you kind
of have to look at and say, Okay, like is
Hunter going to be making his threes? Is Max Strus
he's been hitting his threes? How many minutes can you
get away with Sam Merrill defensively? And then also like
is Dean Wade going to be taking and making his threes?
And so that is I think that's a real sort
of fascinating element for them. I just they come close
to their wreck is better as of right now, I
think they have a strong case though, Like throw that
out the window and there's gonna be the the track
record to trust Boston more Cleveland as a real case
as they should be the favorite to come out of
the East, because I think that's how one they good
they were before. But two how much sense that DeAndre
Hunter acquisition makes yep to me?
Speaker 2: The fact that you have a guy who's like a
prototypical wing big in Hunter, who can play both forward
spots and you can play him in both big lineup
small lineups. Like you can you can squeeze a solid
thirty minutes out of him, no problem if you want to.
And the fact that he can take over those processions
as you alluded to previously, Like he'll take you one
on one and he'll not hesitate to pull up from
three too, you needn't. I don't know if this is
the right wording, but like he's sort of a release
valve in that sense, like if those two guards are
just being bottled up by tough defense, He's a guy
you can sort of pass to and say all right
for the next couple of minutes, makes something happen at
the very least. And look, also, I think we're kind
of underselling Jared Allen's offense occasionally. I know this year
he's only what thirteen fourteen points per game something along
those lines. He's been far more like opportunistic than ever before.
But that like undersells his skill set as a score
Like he's got a really good sense of scoring in
the post. He's got a surprisingly adept like you know,
both hook shots and push shots. He's got a little
bit of a jumper. He's a guy who I think
almost intentionally, they've not gone to a whole lot this year.
So in the playoffs when things get bottled up, he's
a guy who suddenly go, oh, you know what I forgot?
I can actually go for twenty five in a game
or two. So I do think they have some answers.
Speaker 1: I think though a lot of it, and I would
agree with everything you said. A lot of his stuff, though,
would be predicated on okay, like so DeAndre Hunter is
an example, the same type of space isn't going to
be available to him if defenses don't care about leaving Hunter,
who is shooting like thirty two percent from three since
January one? Again, how much do you read into that
when Hunter's still at I think he's still like thirty
nine percent for the season or something like that.
Speaker 2: He had a horrible Jane Mardy, just a horrible.
Speaker 1: Which is that might have contributed to why the Hawk
because I saw a lot of that trade being framed
as if this was this like this past summer, the
Hawks would have killed to get this return. And my
whole point was, well, it's not this summer, and so
if that was the best available out there, I simply
would have kept him. But maybe the team that's trading
away the player usually has more information on them than anyone,
and so I'm fascinated to see if there's something we're
missing there, specifically about his playoff viability. But that looms
is just a home run acquisition I have. I've said
it like a dozen times at this point. Are you
ready to venture into more of the land of the unknown?
Speaker 2: Though? Oh?
Speaker 1: Always, always the Indiana Pacers, who I don't think if
you and I had recorded this a couple of months ago,
they probably wouldn't even have made the list. I am
even on not even record, but on this podcast, I said,
I'm sure this is verbatim. I am out on the
twenty twenty four five Indiana Pacers, and they get nem
hard back. Haliburton had started playing better even before that. Uh,
they've been they have the vitals of a contender for
like quite some time.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: What do you make of them and their threat level
in the Eastern Conference specifically.
Speaker 2: Oh, I've been super impressed with them before they went
to Paris, Uh, and I went down there to cover
that whole thing. They were on an absolute hot streak.
And even even Rick Carlisle, who's who can be one
of the most skeptic people like to interview. Ever, he
had a bit of a skip in a step going
into press conferences before the games, and you know they've
they're trying to imagine him skipping now yeah no, yeah,
well you know that was more mentally skipping if anything.
But like he was, he was like joyful use playing
around with the media, which that that doesn't really happen
with great regularity, I think, and and whenever I was,
I was at every press conference there when whether it
was Halle Siaka Mathrine all those guys, there is a
sense of, oh yeah, we believe, we belong, like we
are absolutely here and we deserve to be here. Like that,
there is a confidence level that I was very surprised
for them to showcase. I think they have a great
cohesion there. And I might be a little bit simplistic
in this, but I always appreciate teams where the hierarchy
is like pretty set. So like you know, Tyreez is
going to run the show. You know Sam is going
to be like the secondary. You know Matherin's going to
be you know, playing off of those two. You know
Miles is going to be more of a floor space
where he's not going to take guys off the drip,
like people know their roles. Role acceptance to me is major,
and it seems like this entire team it's just yep,
we know, like we at all know what our roles is.
Like my name is Obi Top and I'm supposed to
shoot threes and dunk and not a damn thing else.
That's I think that's a great way to get on
the same page. And when you have that cohesion, when
you have that understanding of who you are as both
of this team and individuals, frankly, yeah, you're probably gonna
shock a couple teams along the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, They're They're a fascinating case study because when you
start to get after Boston and Cleveland, I think a
lot of people are just gonna default to the Knicks there.
And I really do think that territory is more wide
open than just defaulting to any team. As the third
best team in the East, I think even people are
just gonna give all Milwaukee's healthy h Kyle Kuzma changes
everything for them. I'm making a joke there. So I
don't know what to make of them relative to the
playoff discussion. I do think while I've been impressed by
some of the things I've seen from a Ben mcmathren,
a Ben Shephard, even some moments from Obi Toppin for
them to me, I really think it's gonna come down to,
like your best five man unit needs to be, like
it's we know what the four is like Siakam, Turner
and Halliburton and them Hard And I really think like
the fifth most important player on this team is and
needs to be Aaron E.
Speaker 2: Smith And so what does he look like? What do
you look like?
Speaker 1: Not just defensively from him, but when your two best
defenders perimeter defenders anyway, or probably Nemhard and Nie Smith,
which scus you know that excus a little small. And
even as they've kind of been on this tear, like
the rebounding for this team still isn't great, but I
do think that they're once again showing and I think
Sakham is.
Speaker 2: A huge part of this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, their ability to just score in different ways on
offense even when things slow down. They have the second
highest half court best at half court offense against top
ten defenses this year. And that's like we're not just
talking about the transition opportunities and the speed that they
can generate. I think that they are perhaps better built
than ever, just because now they have more time with
Siakam and even the stuff we've seen from Nemhard, it
feels like their offense is more postseason proof than it
even was before.
Speaker 2: I hear you on the Nie Smith point that he
kind of needs to be the fifth guy. I would
argue that doors open for Ben Shephard. So he does
a lot of the stuff that. Don't get me wrong,
Like I don't think he's I want to like just
fully point No he's not. No, he's not like, but
he does those things where he gets into, you know,
the frustration level of the opponents right, Like he'll throw
a shoulder, he'll bump someone after the whistle, like, he'll
do some of that stuff. I think that is equally
important in the playoffs as well, like just having that
guy who's just want to stir shit up and be
that to that type of guy. And is that does
that make him more important than their Nie Smith? Probably not,
not unless he suddenly becomes far more like volume oriented
in his three point shooting. But I do like the defense.
I do like his game overall, and I also like
aaron Ne Smith off the bench as a sort of
like a two way wing where size might not be
as big of an issue, because I do both him
and Shepherd are both they're both six six, but Ben Shepherd,
in my opinion, plays bigger in many ways.
Speaker 1: Which is I think you're right, but which is weird
because Ben Shepherd is listed as like forty pounds lighter
than Nimith. But I think your point is I actually
agree with what you're saying.
Speaker 2: I want to be that clear. Yeah, So what does
he list at one ninety that had Look that has
to be wrong. I walked past him in Paris. That
has to be wrong.
Speaker 1: But is he I think Nei Smith is listed at
two fifteen, two twenty.
Speaker 2: Did he bridge that gap just yet?
Speaker 1: But even be look back to Ben Shepherd's first summer week,
there was like that dude just like guarding big? So
like he, I I just and this is like Nie
Smith has not been shooting the ball great, at least
from beyond the arc since coming back. I probably still
trust him more as a shooter, which is probably why
I default to him as right. Okay, but the fact
you're I guess, does it bode well for them that
you would think or that we believe that the argument
for how that fifth spot can be filled out is
more debatable than oh, it needs to be this guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think it is. And by the way,
this is not in any way related to like playoff
chances and whatnot. I've been looking for you know, I
go on Basketball Reference all the time, so you know
the players headshots are in there for the entire season.
I think even going back to last year, it is like,
who does Ben Sheppard remind me of? And then it
hit me just last week, Chandler Hutchinson. Are those two twins?
Like are we what the hell are you trying to
denigrate Ben Sheppard? Or are you just coming no, no, no, period.
I'm thinking we have one of those Woody Halls and
Matthew McConaughey situations on our hands where they might actually
genuinely be brothers where we don't know like that. That
is uncanny, uncanny, Dan, So contender? Are they a contender?
Could you see this team?
Speaker 1: And I would say, like, you're like not even confidence meter,
but they would have to have more and we don't
want to add all this up and it needs to
be one hundred percent exactly right, right? Do they have
more than like a ten percent chance or something of
making the conference finals again in the.
Speaker 2: East, right, Can I hatch my bed a little bit? Nope,
I'm not. I'll let you, but yes you can, all right,
because I'm got into I'm going to I think this
kind of boils douts to Tyreese. This is like the
most simplistic thing ever. You know, he's been at what
like eighteen and nine I want to say something along
those lines eight well, not even eighteen and eight and
a half. Oh good, if he steps a little more
up to that challenge of being like that dude you
know who averaged twenty six and twelve over the first
half of last season, for example, I think your odds
of making it into Morton Dan, you know, championship equity
territory increases dramatically. So if during the second half of
this regular season, Hallie is like, all right, like I've
just taken a kick the back seat for the for
the first half of the year. Now I'm back to
being you know that guy. Yeah, I'm gonna call him
a championship contenter.
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna call them this is relative to
the East, and maybe you could just sit there and
say that they are like there's only two contenders in
the East. If that's like real legitimate contenders, I think
I have more faith in them than the Knicks. I
believe that when you look at what their biggest flaws
are supposed to be.
Speaker 2: Both of these.
Speaker 1: Teams, you would say on the defensive end, I think
we've just seen maybe not like a higher peak gear,
but a more sustainable peak gear from Indiana on the
defensive ends, and there's just there's more depth there for
them to play around with if they even though I
really believe that it needs to be. Nie Smith is like,
if you're looking for that, right, let's close out the
fot like the final five man lineup.
Speaker 2: And That's where I'm at with Indy.
Speaker 1: So I guess I would say that makes them a contender,
which is just nobody should trust that given what I
said about Indiana two and a half months ago.
Speaker 2: So basically, this entire Indiana exercise has just been completely moved. Great.
Speaker 1: This is just me like sort of paying my penance
for having dismissed them for the entire year. Our next
team up, though, after the Pacers, is the Miami Heat.
Prior to the Jimmy Butler trade, more I don't think
they're sitting there as we record this, but they're gonna
have more bodies available. They've gotten like into sixth place
in the East, and they're a fascinating team. I know
it's not pertinent to this exercise, but they need to
make the playoffs so that they can convey that pick
to Okay see and don't like, don't set up years
in twenty six and twenty eight when they're gonna owe
two unprotected picks out? Are they based off what you've
seen from BAM at a baiom from Tyler Hero Now
they were gonna add Wiggins and Daveion Mitchell is super
interesting as part of hashtag heat culture, and of of
course Kyle Anderson khalil Ware like that element next to BAM.
Speaker 2: How do you feel about this team? I'm of two
minds of this team. I'm almost at that point where
I'm like, just go make the playoffs so you don't
relinquish that draft pick, and then the summer make a
rebuild or not. Me not necessarily a full on rebuild,
like a retool process, perhaps, even though I wouldn't honestly
be a posed to a full tear down necessarily for Miami.
It's never gonna happen while while pat Riley is there.
But I'm wondering, like, what is the upside with this
team even with Wiggins? Like who is that guy? Like
history tells us you need to have that guy to
go to the finals, to make, you know, to become
a champion. Do they have that? I don't think so.
And because they don't have that, dude, I'm a little
bit skeptical.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's and I think specifically, if we were to
isolate it to one end of the floor, they don't
have that guy on offense. As good as Tyler Hero
has been this year and as good as bam Adebayo
could be, I think bam Adebayo, even at his peak,
we've kind of long since known, Okay, this is not
going to be someone who can headline your offense really
at any point. Maybe for tiny stretches, but he's even struggled,
like when you just want him to do things without
Jimmy Butler. And this year, their offense, when bam and
Tyler Hero play without Jimmy Butler, their offense is in
the fifteenth percentile. And Andrew Wiggins doesn't he'll space hit
threes he's more plug and play than ever.
Speaker 2: He'll fit their defensive motif.
Speaker 1: And that's why they're interesting, is that this team like
they can be super big like you have if you
want to play Wiggins, khalil Ware and bam Adebayo, that's
pretty jumbo. And and I know Bamdabao is not conventionally huge,
but he can play like he can play huge, So
I don't I'm with you, and I like when we
say they're missing that guy. Is that if you needed
a best you don't want him to be a defensive liability,
but at least you can say, okay, well we have
like someone who could anchor a championship defense. They just
don't have that player who can spearhead a championship offense.
Speaker 2: Right, they don't have a dam liller. No, I'm sorry,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Look, I did you enjoy like kind of just watching
from afar the Portland media trailing the Miami like response
like they should just send Jimmy to where he wants
to go, like he's he's earned it, as like someone
who had no stake in that race.
Speaker 2: I very much enjoyed. Look, I love all that. I
love the spiciness. By the way, I realized the other
the other week the kill will where ranked first, like
on FanDuel and whatnot, like those places as a rookie
off the year candidate, Like what the hell right?
Speaker 1: But like I was actually thinking about this too, and
part of it was just like the stuff we've seen
from Justin Edwards and if A J. Mitchell is gonna
be hell again, like putting together all rookie teams this year,
We've already done it twice on this podcast is going
to be a bloodbath. And I don't know that it's
necessarily a compliment to the rookie class, but it's just
sort of like these guys just get Like khalil Ware
wasn't even on the periphery for like a quarter of
the season, and now I did not see that he
was a favorite to win Rooky No.
Speaker 2: I mean he's awesome. I liked him a ton coming
into the draft, a ton. I actually thought he was
the guy the Pelicans should just go above and beyond
to go find because I think his fit would Sion
would have been ridiculous. Are you saying he could have
saved their season? I'm not saying he couldn't. Let's just
put that way. I'm not saying he couldn't, No, I'm
but I'm saying, like for a team that's so so
you know, dramatically has has missed the point of how
built around Zion in the right way. That was a
guy who would have fitted. It's funny, right because we're
talking about that guy that them not having that guy.
If Kiloware next year becomes that guy, so many of
their issues just gonna solve themselves. Do you think that
he can be that guy for them on offense? That's
the question, right because he is relying on others setting
him up, and like, do you do they have that
guy who can also lay on the ball for thirty
five minutes per game, who can consistently break down a
defense and dish it off Like that's not Tyler Hero,
that's definitely not Zario's year. Like, I that's the thing.
They need some cohesion here. I don't know how you'll
optimize him, even though he can be a tremendous center,
Like do they have the guard play to optimize his situation?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just certainly Terry Rozier is not gonna
help out there, and they're even what I think is
tough for someone like him and maybe even that front
court moving forward is they haven't. I know Wiggins can shoot,
but just when you look at some of the guys,
like are they gonna play Davion Mitchell and Kyle Anderson
a time? Like those are not two guys that are
going to space for you. This team is definitely built
to raise defensive hell, but part of just like for
someone like a khalil Ware or even like bam Adebaio
at points or just other secondary guys, is how much
space do they have to operate or to work away
from the ball And if teams are just okay kind
of leaving ever so many people on Miami, Who's like,
who are you? It's Tyler Hero And then who else
are you worried about, like really burning you from the
perimeter right now?
Speaker 2: Nobody, no one, no one.
Speaker 1: So that would be my biggest question for them, And
I would say I do not have them as a
as a context.
Speaker 2: I don't either, and I do think they have some
pretty big questions to ask themselves over the course of summer. Also,
just flying on the radar a little bit slightly concerned
about Haimi Hawk has the second year, Like I thought
the moon of him last year and not sure what
the hell happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even him and Pods both And even though Pods
has played since he came back from injury, like he's
looked a lot better. So and it's come over like
a semi extended period of time. I feel like Kaimi
Hawks has not had that type of a stretch, especially
on offense this year. Maybe I'm missing something, but yeah,
I think it's totally fair and I sort of have
that discussion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I'm with you. I don't trust Miami whatsoever.
I think they should do whatever they can to make
it's so we are right, let's get it into the
playoffs so we can lose our draft pick. But like,
that's the situation we're in. Uh, it makes a lot
of sense. Go do it, and then over the course
of summer, maybe have a heart to heart with pat
Riley and go, look, we know that you don't want
to rebuild old man. We get it, but might be
time it could.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're going to be a team to watch over
the offseason for sure. Next team on the docket more
the Bucks. Are they a title contender? And before we
say that, all right, does it shock you to know
that they have the second worst defense against top twenty
offenses for the year, so for the entire year. I'm
not filtering out anything there.
Speaker 2: It actually does surprise me. Yes, I was a little bit, honestly,
I was shocked when they were Look, look, there's no
question that their defense throughout the course of the season
has been inconsistent. But that's that number is that's definitely surprising. Yeah,
you read that right, right, it's filtered.
Speaker 1: Cleaning the glass filters out garbage time too, so that's
not even there can be early garbage time, of course.
Speaker 2: But god, okay, yeah, now that's concerning. Uh and how
long has Giannis out was like like forty weeks or
he's through the All Star break at least? Oh, okay,
that's not necessarily too bad. Their their top end talent
is there.
Speaker 1: I will say I tried to justify the Kyle Kuzma
trade for them, and they're still part of me that
does understand it. But in that playoff context, I don't
know if he's gonna give you enough lift defensively to
offset the playmaking and just the I mean the shot
making from Chris Middleton and then also and I feel
at least I'm sure I'm guilty of doing this, and
I've just seen so much of Chris Middleton and Yannis
that I'm all like, this is that will be top
of mind for me, but I'm sure it happens elsewhere,
and I forget, you lose a ton of chemistry between
Chris Middleton and Yannis at ten to Kompo, and that
even peak Kyle Kuzma has no chance in hell of
replicating any of that synergy offensively. But look, i mean,
the top end talent here is still intriguing, and you
have if Yannis is healthy and Dames but like Dames
had a really good year overall, I just I want
to call them a contender, but I'm trying to like
really keep the bar because I look at the East
and this is maybe this is flawed. I'm like, there
can't be more than four real contenders in the Eastern
Conference just based off what we've seen this year, And
so I find myself kind of grappled at this point.
All right, there's Orlando, there's Milwaukee, there's the Knicks, and
as I've already said that, the Pacers are one. So
where am I going with the other one? Can you
sell me on this team or sell me against this team.
Where are you at with them?
Speaker 2: So let me just get into the Middleston Kusma deal
first and foremost, because here's how I viewed it, Like
they came to the realization Milwaukee that Chris can only
give you about a half per game, like twenty three
to twenty four minutes per game. And while those minutes
he's effective, like obviously he's a very efficient shooter. He's
a guy who can still set guys up. He can
still do a lot of the Chris Middleton things. You
just can't have them out there for forty five minutes
anymore because of like injury concerns, age Stamini issues, their
ability issues, whatever. So I think they pulled this trigger
fully knowing they gave up, you know, the superior talent.
But Kusman coming back is a guy who you can
probably play thirty five minutes over the course of a game.
And I think that's kind of where they went, like, Okay,
we can get a guy who's a little worse, potentially
a lot worse if things don't shake out, but he's
at least more available to us in terms like we
don't have don't have to put a minute restriction on him.
We don't have to play him just one half of basketball.
We can play him three quarters. We can actually just
get more minutes out of him, and that's gonna presumably
help our top tier talent. And I sort of get
that line of thinking if that's how they approached it.
That said, losing valuable shooting, efficient shooting, someone who can
both score off the bounce and in catch and shoot situations.
That's it's a gample of you know, dimensions. So I'm
I'm very uneasy about the trade, but I also understand
they need to do something. I just can't escape this, Dan,
which is what it all boils down to. And this
is me answering your question when you have an in
prime Giannis antot Coompo, I just can't sit here and say,
oh no, you're you're not not a contender. I just can't.
I'm sorry, It's it's extremely simplistic, but this is a
legitimate MVP candidate, assuming Joe he makes the cut for
games played, Oh yeah, great, point Yeah, like thirty two points,
twelve plus rebounds, six assists per games. Still solid defense
despite you know the team ranking. You just read up
a couple of minutes ago. This, dude, is it? And
you have Dame who's playing a fish in basketball as
a secondary guy. Are they a contender? It's oh god,
this is like Sophie's choice. This is so hard.
Speaker 1: It's I will say their margin for errors that and
this would have been true with Chris Middleton. Yeah, to
be clear, it's just almost non existent. Because you even
they're like a plus four points per one hundred posessions.
When Brooke Johannis and Damian Lillard play without Chris Middleton
this year, that's not that's not an elite mark. It's like,
it's you're comfortably winning those minutes, but that's not a
super elite mark. I do think I probably default to
you that I just feel as if you have gianness
and if you have a game playing like this, why
wouldn't you be a contender. And then I'm also like,
maybe you need to open up your criteria in the
East because I feel like there are two teams that
are head and shoulders above everybody else. And if you
told me that Milwaukee beat Team X whoever from the
East that wasn't one of those two in a seven
game series, it wouldn't shock me. Do you like do
you eiw them as a threat to beat either Boston
or Cleveland in the East, though.
Speaker 2: Probably more so Cleveland than Boston. But guess there's I
don't know what it is. There's a history there, and
Giannis seems to sometimes, uh channel the worst version of
himself against Boston. I don't know if he becomes overeager
or it's like, oh, I just I have to prove
myself against this team and it just doesn't work out.
So there's a part of me that just goes to
history there. I'm just more inclined to trust Boston and Milwaukee.
But I could see them give Cleveland absolute hell, I
could see them. I could see Cleveland struggling to contain
Gianni's in every sense of the like, could you could
you not see the scenario of Giannis coming into early
games against Cleveland and getting immediately two fouls on Evan Mobley,
like immediately, I could see that. I could. I could
see it.
Speaker 1: But they're also just now that you have Hunter, like
you could kind of throw him to the wolves and
have him to a lot of the honest stuff.
Speaker 2: That's true, that is true some one. This is probably
the toughest one for me, Like I just I can't
in good conscience sit here and say that a team
with with prime Jannismbo is a championship contender. But at
the same time Doc Rivers is still roaming those that sideline,
so like.
Speaker 1: The two for sure in the East, and probably if
we were to tier the entire league like they're not,
they're not a Tier two contender overall.
Speaker 2: No, no, should we should we just be a little
bit harsh and the pretenders.
Speaker 1: I think I'm there, I don't. So here's what I'm
struggling with. And maybe would you rather have Chris Middleton
in the role that he was playing this year, minutes
and everything, and there's of course the the durability aspect
of it, or Kyle Kuzma because he can play thirty
five minutes a game, or however much you want to
run him out for Because I think I would still
rather have Chris Middleton. And when I in my head
and I just don't know whether I've just decided this
is what it needs to be, that then to me
is not a win now move That was Okay, we're
ducking the second apron for this year, and then like
we're a little bit more flexible moving in to next year,
and maybe they didn't want to pay Middleton long term
if they thought he was gonna opt out and want
more money, or didn't want his player option on the books, whatever,
And so I am almost inclined to call them upper
tender because when you make a trade like that where
I don't think it materially improves, and I think that
there's an argument between me that actually hurts your title chance.
But I don't know if I'm making that too much
of a binary proposition.
Speaker 2: No, I think that is fair because you're also removing
one of the best playmakers on the team. And like,
with all due respect to Kyle Kusma, who can play,
make who can pass, it's not in the same vicinity
as Middleton too, So it's not just the scoring. Yeah,
I would probably prefer that the twenty three minutes per
game for him. I think that's that's basically the Bucks's
issue overall, though, like just they're so scarce on talent,
Like there's not a whole lot there when you go
down the list, you were kind of hoping for more,
I want to say, out of Gary Trent Junior, you
were hoping for more out of townum prints. You were
hoping for more out of those guys just hask materialized.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can also take a team
that actively traded for Kevin Porter Junior this season all
that seriously, either, yep, that's fair. Our next team, this
one is gonna I'm gonna twist myself into a pretzel here.
I think more are the New York Knicks contenders or pretenders?
Speaker 2: Contenders? I think that's the fair default.
Speaker 1: But part of me wonders if it's due to a
dearth of other options, because the concerns about them, the
minutes of their starters, their relative shallownessts they all hold valid.
The thing I just keep coming back to is even
when they're at full strength, how much does that matter
with Mitchell Robinson? Like what does the how much does
he matter on defense if you're gonna play him next
to Towns? And then what does that do to your
offense if you're removing the five out element from the
table for those stretches And then I know they've recently
had more what you would call trademark victories when you
look at the shellacking of the Grizzlies. They beat the
Rockets too, right, I think that was the game I'm referencing, but.
Speaker 2: I've watched them.
Speaker 1: You've seen them against Boston this season, and it's just
they seem so far away against that team specifically. And
maybe I'm overweighting that, but I don't trust their defense
specifically against the better teams or overall better offenses in
the NBA. And to get out of the East, you're
going to have to face two of the best offenses
in the NBA in the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Boston Celtics.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's fair. That is where I will give
you my rebuttal in terms of their offensive effectivity. I
know that they're shallow, as you mentioned, but you're going
into a playoff context where rotations are going to tighten up.
At the very least, those guys are just gonna be
all playing together. And I think when you have the
Jalen Brunson Karl Anthony Towns duo as your staple and
you can adjust on a game to game and basis,
and you have Mikail Bridges, who's kind of like a
free roaming wing in terms of just shooting off the catch,
also creating off the bounce, and then you have OG's
like sort of even an afterthought at times offensively, which
I think is ridiculously a major luxury to have. And
then you even throw in Josh Hart, who's like, I
don't want to say he's a primary playmaker because obviously
bruntson is that, but like then he's second, Like is
this second? Yeah? I mean he brings the ball up
a ton, Yeah, exactly, and he's you know, your second
best rebounder. He just does everything. I wrote an article
about him over at FOG last month where it actually
called him a star. I think he's dramatically underrated. So offensively,
I do think they can go toe to toe with
a lot of these teams. Yes, the defense is where
that's this digging point, right Can you stop them? Can
you have consistent stops? And that's where maybe I still
have too much faith in Tom Thibodeau to adjust on
a game of the game basis when he comes to
the playoffs. I don't know. Maybe maybe I'm just a
little bit too you know, too much of a tips lover.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't even I mean TIBs and if some
of the minutes distributions, I know it's in a tired trope,
but I also think it's a valid one.
Speaker 2: I think he's proven he can be more flexible.
Speaker 1: I just don't know if they have the person out
necessary for him because one of the things I keep
coming back to as well, and maybe this is more
of a testament to how well og was pre injury,
how good Josh Hart has been. You did not especially
at the time, but even after the Karl Anthony Towns trade,
you didn't acquire McHale Bridges under the guys that he
was gonna be your fifth best player, and that is
what he has been for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this season, and that is.
Speaker 1: Concerning because it's okay, it comes through the lens of well,
look at how good Josh Hart and Towns and og
Ananobe have been. But it just feels like, and I
would say maybe I mean certainly on defense but also
on offense, that he might wind up mattering a lot
more in the playoffs, because if you're looking for someone
who's gonna give you I don't want to say in
every level threat, but like cal Anthony Town's when he
puts the ball on the floor, he's a really good passer,
but kind of more from the stand still stuff. So
like if he's gonna put his head down and go
for drives. That's great physicality aggression, but you might need
McHale bridges if you're looking for someone who can also
maybe punish teams from the perimeter, off the dribble a
little bit, like that's a part of his game that
has a better chance of panning out than it would
for in og Ananobi or and certainly a Josh Hart
who again maybe better decision maker with the ball in
his hands, which is not as big of a threat
from mid range or three point range.
Speaker 2: I forget because he seems like he's been going in
and out on that on the team. Landry Shammon, is
he around or like you see on the team or
is he not?
Speaker 1: No, he's on the team, not on the team, all right, Yeah, no,
he is on the team.
Speaker 2: He is on the team. See now, I got thrown
off twice again because he got waves at one point
and then re signed and then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he just located his shoulder and then they brought
him back. They're also like they were sort of like
skirting the roster minimums and they were so close to
the second apron.
Speaker 2: So yeah, he's on a guaranteed now right, Yeah, he'll
be there through the end of the season. All right, great,
See this is a guy who I would actually empower
it a little bit over the course of the second
half of the regular season. I understand that his his
long range shooting is shaky. I understand that he's not
necessarily a defensive asset, and that's what you're talking about.
But if I know, like if I'm the Knicks and
I know that the best way for me to move
forward and to actually potentially win a series that is
with overwhelming offensive volume, I'm going to need a guy
to catch a rhythm before the playoffs. And Shammant more
than anyone needs those reps. He needs that rhythm, and
he should be a guy who you can sort of
put into that rotation and just ask him to do
one bloody thing, and that is just to panalize teams
that want to double Brunson, that want to double Towns,
to want to double anyone. So I do think they
have a sort of solution. I'm not saying that Shammant
is like a full time starter or anything, but like
I also don't think he's a ten minute player as
he's been this year. I think that's a little a
little ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Do how much value or injury do you assign to
Mitchell Robinson the Knicks. Apparently the latest time on is
they want to back before March first, But like we've
heard a bunch of different timelines right at this point.
I think some of the things we've seen against Boston specifically,
is that they're just gonna to go after New York's
week points where it's like Jolen Brunson, Karl Anthony Town's.
Do you think Mitchell Robinson changes that type of matchup
issue enough for them defensively?
Speaker 2: I mean, if people are going towards the rim, yeah,
that's gonna change things. But I also think teams are
smart now and they are probably not going to do that.
Like it seems like Boston that average is like forty
eight triples per game. They're basically gonna say, oh, look,
Mitchell Robinson is in, We're gonna let's just take those
shots and then wait for him to be taking off
the floor and then Okay, now we're gonna attack the basket.
What I also called the wimpy philosophy. It's I think
teams are smart enough to do that. So it comes
down to how does Mitch influence the game on both
sides of the court, because again, you can sort of
offensively game plan around minimizing his impact.
Speaker 1: I am gonna call them a contender, but I feel
like I said, who do you feel strong more strongly
about as a contender, Indiana or New York or even
if you want to throw Milwaukee in there by the way, But.
Speaker 2: I feel more confident with New York than I do Milwaukee,
for sure. I think it's a it's a more interesting
debate with Indiana. And I'll see this is where I'm
just got awful right, because this is where I'm just
going to lean into the stardom where I think, all right,
if it's Nicks Pacers, I'm just gonna trust Jalen Brunson
and Carnel Anthony. It sounds more than Tyrus Aalberton and
Pascal Siaka. I think those there are two offensive forces
in New York that are just so devastating in terms
of offensive efficiency, scoring variety. So I'm going to lean them.
Speaker 1: Nothing written in stone for me, but I think I
would probably prefer Indiana. And maybe I am reading too
much into what we've seen from them recently, and then
maybe I believe that their optionality will matter more in
the postseason than a lot of the times, not that
optionality doesn't matter, but like how deep are you going into,
Like what line upster you're testing out at that point? Well,
the backup front court spots with Toppin or if it's
Thomas Bryant, or if they try to give Jarvis Walker
some run.
Speaker 2: How much does that matter?
Speaker 1: That's a close But again a couple of months ago
that that didn't even look like a debate. Our next
team in the East, the Orlando Magic mort Are they
a contender or big fat cowards?
Speaker 2: They are one year away? They are one year away? Well,
I'm sorry, are they without making any changes? Would you
view them as one year away?
Speaker 1: Or is this a team where it's let's get some
other f and shooting in here?
Speaker 2: Already? Go on, I'm baking in that this team is
going to go into the offseason and actually try to
fill out some of their holes.
Speaker 1: Like, can I ask why you would bank on that
when they've repeatedly shown that they're not going.
Speaker 2: To do that. Well, because I think this is the
year where they kind of realize them Now is the time,
I mean, I hope. So otherwise we're looking at like
Dallas Maverick's level commentstency here. I mean, the need for
shooting is so clear. I understand their iology of like
let's give Paolo and Frowns the ball and let's not
play with a point guard, because that is so twenty
twenty five. No, it's not, No, it's not. You still
need a play maker. You can give the ball to
who is on the perimeter calling out stuff. So and
I understand that they want to turn Jalen Sucks into
more of a decision maker. That's great, He's not that guy.
He's he's a defensive dynamo, but he's he's an off guard.
Let's just be real about it. Like the pursuit they
accept this the better. Like you can call him a
combo if you want. That's not that doesn't make him
a point. He's just not a point. Anthony Black, I like,
but the shooting is a concern still. And we knew
he was going to be a project. But if you
want to win now, if you want to win within
the next couple of win the next couple of years, rather,
you just don't have the patience. Not saying you can't
give him minutes, but like you can't throw him into
like a starting role for example. I don't think unless
he comes back and is like half Steph Curry next year,
so they will have to find a point guard who
can space the floor. They will have to make moves.
I'm guessing Kobe White is going to be a name
that they have circled for next season. That wouldn't surprise
me whatsoever. I think he would fit in well there,
but this as of this year, I can't call him
a contender. When they're hitting forty percent of their threes.
I'm sorry, and I know that's that's neat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the only thing that I could actually disagree with
on you is that you have more faith in them
moving forward than I do, because the talent is there.
But I do think that they've kind of focused on
we can't play guys with defensive or target guys who
might be defensive liabilities. That type of mindset, I think
is really harsh the variability of their offense. And maybe
it looked like the way that Franz was playing at
the beginning of the year, and I had him on
the back of my MVP ballot. But part of if
you want the Rolina match to get attention is they
need to be held to like this higher bar, and
to me, I'll even take it one step further and say, yeah,
I agree about their biggest need. But if they wanted
to play the way they're playing now, if you want
to test out that type of usage from Jay and
Suggs bring in more shooting somehow, that is absolutely a
trade you didn't have to go all in on to
acquire someone like that. And I worry that Okay is
losing in the postseason or the playing torment ever ends
up being exactly the way we're expecting you to lose,
because that's what happened last year in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: Will that be the wake up call they need?
Speaker 1: I don't know if I have a ton of faith
with them, And that's to me that's a bummer, because
I really do believe in a lot of the talent here,
and of course specifically Palo, even though he hasn't played
great since coming back from injury. Franz too suffered a
little bit. Like I really do believe in those guys. Now,
I just there's not enough like variants in their offense
to where it's Okay more they can't shoot right now?
Why don't they run? This team is not it's not
the most athletic team, but you can run with these guys,
and yet after live rebounds they just slow it down
and it's sort of watching them, it's you're not going
to create enough advantages that way because you don't have
the shooters in the half court to leverage around Palow
and Franz and it just I don't know why this
makes me so angry, but like they're a team that's
sure it is I read too much into them when
they first sign KCP. I knew that didn't fix everything,
but I was like, oh, they've entered their aggressive era
and it was just no, that was just sort of
like that apart.
Speaker 2: From the get go. I hated it. I really hate it,
to be fair.
Speaker 1: He's the one since Genuary first who's kind of been
hitting three in rotation.
Speaker 2: Great. Great, and then we ignore the first couple of
months of the season. By the way, they have a
solution who's healthy and on their roster. Well, I don't
want to say like a solidified solution, but like they
have a guy who they should play a ton to
see if you can actually fix some of those issues.
Jet Howard. You have a six to eight guy who
moves very very well who shoots in a high volume.
Some three historically is a pretty good shooter, could actually
be more than just good if he gets the reps
and he gets the opportunity. But no, no, no eleven
minutes per game, just limited opportunities where I'm like, really,
you want to go that route in stead that that's
you want to go towards? Like I don't know, Gary
Harris instead Caleb Houston, like why why just I that? Well?
Speaker 1: Doesn't it come back to a little bit what I
was saying of they seem so reticent to play guys
who can become defensive liabilities, and it's look at you,
even with all the injuries they've dealt through, but you
have the defensive infrastructure to shoulder more.
Speaker 2: Of these minutes.
Speaker 1: And you could say, look the minutes that I've seen
from Jet Howard this year. I haven't come away thinking
that he's spectacular and going to answer everything, but he
is in terms of options at your disposal now because
we're like we're past the trade deadline, Like he's one
of the better ones for what for what you need?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't even think he's that bad defensively
from what we've seen also granted, the simple size is small,
so they have more data on him from practice and whatnot,
But his frame alone is pretty big. Like, I just
don't mind giving him a real shot, like give him
a shake, like devote the next twenty games of the seasons. Okay, Look,
he's gonna have a place in the rotation. Not ten minutes,
eleven minutes per game, just twenty twenty five. See what
you have in him.
Speaker 1: The one thing you said that caught me off guard,
and I've gotten these wrong all the time, But he
is he six eight?
Speaker 2: I just looked, because the NBA has him at six six. No,
I'm pretty sure he's six eight.
Speaker 1: Well that's even more inexcusable than if he's actually six eight.
Speaker 2: I thought he was. I had LaMelo's height wrong at
one point two. I thought he was six y five
or so. I mean, I will tell you firsthand. I
was in New York during the draft in twenty twenty
three and I spoke with him. I interviewed him. I'm
six four in chees and he towered over me, and
you wouldn't tower like people. All right. Actually, I actually
have a better one because my brother was with me
and he in choos he's six six and Jeff brothers huge.
Yes you met him, Yes you have, and he's six
six and chees and he jet. I think we were
the ones who as the last question during media availability,
and he got up and left, he walked passed us,
and he was clearly taller than my brother by a
couple of inches. So if that's listed at six ' six,
I have some questions.
Speaker 1: Bee Ball has him at six ' eight, but I
don't know, like the NBA thing now uses without shoes,
right unless I have that wrong, and b ball ref
might not. I don't know if I mean, if he's
six eight, he could have by the way, he was
young enough to where he could have theoretically grew. He's
twenty one, right, so right, he came into league at
what was nineteen twenty, So like, if he's actually six eight,
this is good.
Speaker 2: That makes me even angry. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he is.
He's Look, I can say with absolute certainty again from
personal experience here of just having stood right next to
him and my brother, that he's more than six six,
for damn sure. So yeah, I can't.
Speaker 1: It seems like to their like this is not a
Milwaukee Buck style when we were talking about the Knicks.
Speaker 2: This is by design.
Speaker 1: I don't think they were expecting to get there, but
I think they had the talent at least at full strength,
to where if they would have made some moves, maybe
one of which could have been really aggressive, whether it
was over the off season or into the trade deadline,
this could be a different conversation.
Speaker 2: Right now. That's the only core list of teams that
we have.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you believe that we're gonna talk
about some rebuilding squads in the coming week or so
as well. I don't know if you thought that Chicago
or Atlanta or Toronto or I think Detroit would be
the tougher cut here. But they seem to have entered
there like almost their Orlando Magic era in the sense
of different teams. But Okay, they're good now, but they're
still sort of rebuilding because they are like still bringing
along these other younger guys and they're not meant to
They might make the playoffs this year, Okay, great, But
I don't view them as a and I'm sure some
Pistons fan will takes us an insult, but I just
don't view them as a threat to win the title.
They could do things in free agency over the offseason.
It seems like they're approaching sort of that stage of
their existence, right.
Speaker 2: I just I just have to ask, did the Pistons
get prime grand Hill back? Because if not, no, no,
they're just not deserving on being in this.
Speaker 1: Prime grand Hill was a problem. That is just one
of the big careers.
Speaker 2: He was an enigma. You could you couldn't do jack
about that dude.
Speaker 1: If he never gets injured, I feel like he's just
in the goat debates is probably extreme, but like he's
probably like top ten, top fifteen. Like that was just
a level of talent and versatility that Grant Hill had
to make right anyway.
Speaker 2: No, that he would have been in that conversation. I
think it would have come down to titles, right because again,
like would he have ever won in title in Detroit?
I think they just failed to build a proper team
around him for all those years. Then he went to Orlando. Like, Okay,
T Mac, does t Mac become that version without if
Grant was fully healthy, I don't know the answer to that.
There are a lot of ribble effects here, but Grant was.
I mean, look, I love grand Hughes, Grant Hill slightly
above I'm sorry, sorry, just slightly above your co host.
Speaker 1: I would never grant Hughes is unimpeachable on this podcast,
I will say, and I say this without a hint
of snark. There was I think it was I can't
remember which reporter was, some Retroit so that Dennis Schreuder
was beaming like after the trade of the Pistons, and
I was like, that's really cool that, like we've reached
a point where Detroit is good enough to where guys are.
You know, it wasn't necessarily specific to Dennis Shuter wanting
to leave the Warriors for the Pistons, Like this team is.
I thought they had a really solid deadline the way
that they used their cap space to bring in someone
like Dennis Shuter who fills peak. Dennis Shooter probably fills
their biggest need in the way of the J and
Ivy injury. So that's just a team. I have them
pegged as a team to watch, like as we're going
into the offseason and next year to see what they
can do, what they will do, and whether they actually
do take that next step. They're just they're not there now,
and they're not supposed to be.
Speaker 2: No do you have anything else to.
Speaker 1: Add or would you be able to tell our fine
listeners and watchers where they can find you and all
the stuff that you do.
Speaker 2: Yes, you can find me over a blue sky first
and foremost. That's where I spend most of my time.
I have moved on from the Elon musk Kel hole
and you can find me at MSJ NBA. Over there,
I usually share well most of my stuff because I'm
so horrible that brings to link to my stuff. This
is like a real problem that I have. Otherwise, you
can follow my work over at Yahoo Sports. You can
follow my work at Forbes. I mean actually taking a
bit of a break from Sports Illustrated. But if you
want to go back and read some of my old
stuff you can. That is that is your right to
do so. You can also check out the NBA podcast
where I am. And if, by some miracle you speak
Danish or understand Danish, you can check out the podcast
called a buzzer Beater. What is it You didn't teach
me a Danish word this podcast? We had a rule,
You're gonna teach you one Danish word. True. See, I'm
so glad. I'm so glad. Okay, I have a good
one for you. Actually, sol plela one more time. Soul
plela means what are the sun classes sunglasses? All right,
so it's a direct translation to sun and classes. Okay,
soul plea sol plela soul is so is the sun,
and brella is class I favorite. I don't know how to, well,
I kind of know how to.
Speaker 1: I have like a borderline speech impediment with how nasily
I am.
Speaker 2: I actually think you did it. Okay, It's look, that
was a tough word I threw out right there, because
brella is like a very tough way for like the
e in that word. It's spelled b r I l
l e R And the way that we say the
e sound over here, that is something that virtually no
American really does. The er is like not you say er,
We say yeah, and it's so please.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna mess it up now, But stay tuned
for the next edition of Dan Learns a Danish word
when we do the Western Conference Contender or pretender exercise.
Until next time, and as always, on more in Myself's
behalf shout out to Frank Neela Quina