WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:09.640 Hello, welcome to another episode of Elextra Mix. Today I'm 2 00:00:09.679 --> 00:00:11.160 the only one on the panel and this is Alan 3 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:14.560 Whyma and today we have Tess, the creator of wasam 4 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:17.559 X or washim ex. We're still debating what they call 5 00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:18.800 that one tesse. How are you? 6 00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:21.839 I'm good. Let's say it wasn't Max. I don't say 7 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:25.039 this out allowed to often, so that's settled for wasn't x. 8 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:27.359 Yeah, it's kind of I often hear that from people 9 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:29.120 just adding the ex either to the beginning or to 10 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:32.119 the end. I talked to the creator of XCODR. I 11 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:35.280 think you just called the CLDR on a lot of things, 12 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:36.799 but of course you said you have to add the 13 00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:39.520 ex to it or else. It's not an official Elextra library, 14 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:41.320 you know, just the way the way it's done. 15 00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:43.320 It's always a balance, right. You have to be found 16 00:00:43.359 --> 00:00:45.119 so you can call it wasn't. But then a few 17 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:47.920 college just wasn't as a library on XPM. It's easy 18 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:50.399 to find, but it's confuses everybody. And you want to 19 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:53.520 say it's for alex yas represent before Alexia. So that's 20 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:54.560 I think that's how it works. 21 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:57.679 Well, I mean, there's that sentence alone is not super clear, 22 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.240 at least to me. But we're going to get into 23 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:02.439 into that. I think first let's kind of talk a 24 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:05.000 little bit about you know, who are you, right, why? 25 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:09.000 Why did you what brought you from your beginnings all 26 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:10.560 the way to where you are now? Or at least 27 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:14.120 we started working on this MX. Yeah, good, good question. 28 00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:16.799 So you know, I started as like you know, in university, 29 00:01:16.840 --> 00:01:19.959 going straight for computer science degrees, and actually I had 30 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:21.319 to earn some money to pay the rent, so I 31 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:24.040 started developing a Ruby and Rails at open source acually 32 00:01:24.040 --> 00:01:27.200 a project management system, and to earn some money while studying, 33 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:29.519 and that helped me, right, I had the choice between 34 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:32.719 academic career professional programmer, and then helped me make the 35 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:35.040 choice for the non academic being a programmer. 36 00:01:35.079 --> 00:01:38.439 That was good. Switched over to a software development agency 37 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:41.799 bit quotem button based and started as a back end 38 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:44.840 developer Ruby and Rails. We switched to ALIXI Phoenix like 39 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:48.000 back before Phoenix context, so I vividly remember the time, 40 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:50.879 and we had to find context names for where our 41 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:53.120 users struck goes like that. That was fun. 42 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:55.959 It was like one of the first I would say, 43 00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:58.120 because we don't have that many like not full power, boar, 44 00:01:58.159 --> 00:02:01.040 what's the word? It's like a drama sessions. That's what 45 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:02.319 I kind of took from that. I mean it was 46 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:04.280 many years ago. I remember that because I also was 47 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:06.680 like you, we started before context, and was like, what's 48 00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:09.080 the context and why do we need this stuff? And 49 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:10.960 what's the point? And it was quite a lot of 50 00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:12.360 complaints if I remember. 51 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:14.080 Yeah, I don't see it as drama as too much, 52 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:17.879 but as confusion, right, and he was just now it's new. Sorry, 53 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:20.000 let me stop you here. If you compare it to 54 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:23.639 the russ drama, which we're both probably aware of, it's nothing, 55 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:27.039 but for a community that's quite calm, it was something. 56 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:29.400 And I'm not trying to say something bad about that. 57 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:32.560 It's just such an abrupt change, I think for most people, 58 00:02:32.599 --> 00:02:34.919 because we were so used to things being kind of 59 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:38.680 more open, in my opinion, but then this became it's like, wait, 60 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:39.439 why are we doing this? 61 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:42.000 What is this? And then there are lots of questions 62 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:43.759 about how to structure the code, like you said, what's 63 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:46.120 a context? All these kind of things. Sorry, I'm starting 64 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:47.680 to take over show from you, but I just remember 65 00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:49.319 that one, and I don't want to gloss over that 66 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:51.280 because It's one of the few times where things were 67 00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:52.400 just such suddenly change. 68 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:54.680 It was definitely work to do right, and you know, 69 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:57.199 I was in the software development interesting, we had tons 70 00:02:57.240 --> 00:03:00.439 of customers, right, and good luck convincing your stimus that 71 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:03.240 you have to spend upgrading Phoenix inventing contact. I mean, 72 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:06.120 it wasn't that much, right, but still it's also a 73 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:08.759 bit hard to communicate. On the other hand, it's a change. 74 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:11.360 You get a new chance to express what you really 75 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:14.360 want with U schemas right and how to structure them. 76 00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:16.400 So if you see it dead way, it gives you 77 00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:19.280 another tool to structure your code problem. So that's something. 78 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:21.319 Yeah, And if you follow the I believe if you 79 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:25.439 follow the book by I can my mind has coming 80 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:27.080 blank today. It's a long day at work. If you 81 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:29.199 follow there's a book about structuring your code for a 82 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.879 lecture came up quite recently from pragmatic programmers. I have 83 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:33.639 his space in my mind, but the name is that 84 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:35.639 coming to me? Oh, Bruce, he has a book and 85 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:38.159 I think you structure, but I'm better at those two. 86 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:40.360 But I know the book. I know what you talk about. 87 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:42.960 Yes, yeah, it's like I forgot the acronym or something 88 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:45.479 like something with angry bees. I forget now, But it's 89 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:47.360 funny because they're supposed to happy term remember, but I 90 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:50.000 forget it now. But in any case, I do follow 91 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:52.080 his structure for the most part, especially if I'm working 92 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:55.120 with just normal Alextra code, which I was doing recently. 93 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:57.800 Usually I'm spending most of my time in Phoenix Lang, 94 00:03:57.800 --> 00:03:59.599 where you have Acto and everything else to work with. 95 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:02.599 But sorry, I'm STI techn ever your episode continue what 96 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:04.039 You're right, it's good, it's good. 97 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:06.400 That's what we do. We talk about Alexia, yes, and 98 00:04:06.439 --> 00:04:09.800 I think it helps to get our hands held a 99 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:12.080 bit right if we have that support, like how to name, 100 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:14.599 how to structure, Like it's the same thing with like 101 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:17.519 I want to create something creative with my Alexia app, 102 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:18.959 but where do I put the file if it doesn't 103 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:21.360 follow the pattern. There's always these kinds of things that 104 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:23.959 cause a bit of trouble. And that's where I wouldn't 105 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:25.600 say it's even drama. It's it's you have to think 106 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:27.519 about it. You have to have a plan, and sometimes 107 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:31.000 you need a guide and then it's easier. Yeah, anyhow, 108 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:33.319 let's bring back you know back then, you know it 109 00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:36.360 was software development, agency times. But I was there for 110 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:38.720 seven years. I guess I needed a change in scenery. 111 00:04:38.759 --> 00:04:40.639 I you know, my wife was pregnant, I was about 112 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:42.560 to get a kid. There was this transition in life 113 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:44.319 and I needed a transition at the job too. So 114 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:46.959 I was looking for a you know, more product facing 115 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:49.720 company and still wanted to stay with Alexi because that 116 00:04:49.879 --> 00:04:53.759 was arsome awesome. And at the software development agency at 117 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:56.920 bit Crowd, I was transitioning from back and to pull 118 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:01.079 stick to management, to talk into customers vironments, all the 119 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:03.519 managery stuff, right, and I needed to get my hands 120 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:06.399 dirty again. So that was the change. I went to 121 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:09.120 remote dot com. They employ like a lot, a lot 122 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:11.759 of back end Alexia. It's one of the biggest Elexi 123 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:13.399 code basiness I know of, right, So we have a 124 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:16.319 lot of backend developers, all ALEXIR, all the big Phoenix 125 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:18.600 up and then I could I should probably talk about 126 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:20.720 what remote is even because remote com is a pretty 127 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:25.759 generic name. We are a global HR software solution. So 128 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.319 if you want to hire someone, fire someone, promote, get 129 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:32.120 their sick days, all the HR management. You know that 130 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.720 every company needs speak and small. That's what we do, 131 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:37.120 but a bit more modern, right, there's these old game 132 00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:39.839 players and we like a modern take on it. And 133 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:41.759 there's like a bit of a trick to it, which 134 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:44.839 is it doesn't even matter if you're like a proper employee, 135 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:47.040 employed or a contractor. You can have them in the 136 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:50.199 same interface. That's pretty good. And the next trick is 137 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:53.439 that you can like we are also an employer of record. 138 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:55.879 That means, let's say you have a company, but you 139 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:58.639 want to get the best Elixir coder, but they sit 140 00:05:58.720 --> 00:05:59.920 in a different country. 141 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:00.279 Right. 142 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:02.759 Either you're lucky and you have like your company has 143 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:04.680 a shop there and you can employ them there, or 144 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:07.680 you they have to make them move right in your country. 145 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:09.639 But then maybe they don't want to move, maybe there's 146 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:11.720 a visa restriction like stuff like that. You don't want 147 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:14.199 to have that troublem and still employ the best people, 148 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:16.199 So you can go through remote dot com. You can 149 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:18.800 employ them through us. We will like technically employ them, 150 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:21.439 but it's your employee, your company's employee, and it's still 151 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:24.360 in the same matterface. It's it's your remote employee. That's 152 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:26.920 where then income's from remote come. And you know, there's 153 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:30.040 this one thing which is if your employee is in 154 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:32.120 a different country, you have to send the money over, right, 155 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:34.480 Like we invoice you in your country, but they are 156 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:36.560 paid in their country. And that's my team, like the 157 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:38.959 team that sends the money across the globe of not 158 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:41.000 not just you employee, but like all the thousands of 159 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:43.839 employees all across the globe in all the countries. That's 160 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:45.839 the team. And I became team leader of that team, 161 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.160 proud lead of a couple talented developers. Yeah, and that's 162 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:49.920 what I do for today. 163 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:52.480 Now there's why are some MacX relate to this? This 164 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:53.759 is an outside Oh. 165 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:56.399 Yeah, now I talked a bunch, so wasn't Max is 166 00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:59.600 not specifically to my team. That's more invoices and you know, 167 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:01.800 comply and texts this sort of thing. But you can 168 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:05.439 easily imagine web assembly being a use for such a project, 169 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:07.639 for any software service. And let's be a bit more 170 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:10.399 general and just away from my day job. So maybe 171 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:12.800 should we say what websentily is because it's supposed to 172 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:13.920 be about WASSNX. 173 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:15.920 Right, Oh, you know, you know you're you're totally right, 174 00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:18.839 So that's kind of back up a bit. That's a 175 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:20.720 good point. So we have wire them. Do you even 176 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:22.879 know why some stands for oh yeah, web assembly. Sorry 177 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:25.519 I thought I think it's an act first, that's sally acronym. 178 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:28.800 But yeah, sorry, maybe you're the expert compared to me, 179 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:32.519 so you go ahead, he yes, So yeah, websmily. Actually 180 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:35.040 it's two things, right. It's like one part, it's a 181 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:38.720 binary format that you can compile your computer programs libraries in. 182 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:41.680 So take you have a C library or Rust or whatever, 183 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:44.800 elexy even, and you can can compile that down to 184 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:47.319 repressently and then you can use that's the second part. 185 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:50.079 You can use thatsenty block to then run it in 186 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:53.040 another environment, in another place, so you can use that 187 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:55.920 websentitley block, run it in your ELIXI back and in 188 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:59.759 your I don't know what nerves project, in your Rust server, 189 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:02.480 the cloud edge, or in your browser. I think every 190 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:04.959 browser now comes with a web persentary one time. So 191 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:07.399 that's the flexibility of websentry. You can take it from 192 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:10.680 lots of languages and run it execute the program library 193 00:08:10.720 --> 00:08:12.839 in a bunch of different environments and languages. So that 194 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:15.360 was what represently is. And with that, like with that 195 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:18.199 flexibility comes a bunch of additional things like how do 196 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:21.240 you encode things? How do you interface with like how 197 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:23.480 do you pass down a screen or you struct or 198 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:25.920 whatever you have down to represently land. It's all running 199 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:29.079 in a sundbox so to be secure. So let's say 200 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:31.800 you build a plugin system with webresently, you want to 201 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:34.759 want to execute user provided plugins code and you don't 202 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:37.320 want this user provided plug and in websent d to 203 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:39.720 reach all of your data and your feelings back and right. 204 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.039 So that's all running in a sandbox. It only accesses 205 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:46.240 what you as the host give into it into the websently, 206 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:49.000 so it's it's quite secure there, and it's usually faster 207 00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:52.039 than the native language, like probably faster than alixy, although 208 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:53.840 you have to trust me because they didn't have a 209 00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:56.480 bench out there right now. Yeah, I mean, well it's 210 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:59.360 pretty fast, but there's it's still not necessarily native, right 211 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:01.480 because you're still like a VM in between. 212 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:04.960 It's not native, that's that's correct. So that presently basically 213 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:08.279 the they invented an like an imaginary computer, and that's 214 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:10.720 the assembly code for that imaginary computer, and then every 215 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:14.399 run time just interprets as this computer. But some of 216 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:18.000 them compile with a JIT compiled this down to native code, right, 217 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:20.440 Like most of them actually, I think so. It's pretty 218 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:22.960 comparable to like the JVM, for example, in that sense 219 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:27.080 that you reach native speeds near na native speeds, and 220 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:30.279 I think oftentimes people use it in bad pages JavaScript 221 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:33.679 environments to be even faster than the native shaperscript. I 222 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:35.440 mean native in a sense of in the browser native, 223 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:36.519 not native code native. 224 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:39.320 Well, I don't think you imagined this, but this kind 225 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:42.039 of product was, I don't how would you say that? Well, 226 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:45.559 there was something called ASM before WASM, if I remember correctly, 227 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:46.519 is adam JS. 228 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:50.279 Oh yeahs smjsas MGS. I think it was right, Yeah, 229 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:52.480 that's where the idea started. Or but then I'm not 230 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:55.639 a historian. I don't know the history too much. I think, yeah, 231 00:09:55.759 --> 00:09:58.440 someone really clever came up with, like you can compile 232 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:02.000 any program into JavaScript, and not just JavaScript that humans 233 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:04.720 can read, but you know, acting as like kind of 234 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:08.080 an ASM assembly JavaScript. It's like a bunch of things 235 00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:10.000 somebody can read, but it's super fast to execute. And 236 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:12.320 suddenly you had a way I don't know. Let's say 237 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:15.159 you have a weird image format. You know, your iPhone, 238 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:17.519 if you have an iPhone, probably saves images in this 239 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:20.759 hype format that nobody can read. It's not a you know, 240 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:22.720 not a great and it's not a P ANDG or something, 241 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:25.480 but that code that converts images, maybe that's the c 242 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:27.639 library or rust library. And now he suddenly had a 243 00:10:27.639 --> 00:10:30.879 way to compile this tough JavaScript like this assembly jobscript 244 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:33.480 or even web posently later, right, and you can run 245 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:36.200 this library to convert images or what have you anywhere. 246 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:38.200 Suddenly that it gives you a bunch of reader And 247 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:40.039 that's really the power of episently right, if you can 248 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:43.639 take a library or a program from like one environment 249 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:45.639 and run it and use it in your app. 250 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:48.120 Well, that's also like the benefit. There's a couple of 251 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:52.440 things my understanding about where then they're trying to I 252 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:56.159 guess you can say solve. So one is about portability, right, 253 00:10:56.279 --> 00:10:57.840 is that you don't need to think about the platform 254 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:01.480 because theoretically, like it can run on web or even 255 00:11:01.559 --> 00:11:03.840 on your machine, as you kind of mentioned. That's one 256 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:05.799 thing that I think that they wanted to solve or 257 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:07.759 that they're looking to do with this. It's kind of 258 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:10.759 like usability, right, yeah, reasonability. And then the other one 259 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:13.679 is about safety, right, so that you're able to say, okay, 260 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:16.399 I'll give you access to a but not the b 261 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:19.440 so you can say, okay, you can you can go 262 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:22.200 to the web, but you like you can call outside 263 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:24.360 the web, but you can touch my hard drive stuff 264 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:24.720 like that. 265 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:27.960 Yes, I think the defense The term is object capability model. 266 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:31.919 That's the academic you know term to express this, which 267 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:35.279 basically means in you know, normal human words, that whatever 268 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:37.559 we presently can use is only the stuff that you 269 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:40.200 give it. So if I give it a user struck, 270 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:42.639 that's what it can use. But it cannot access all 271 00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:44.519 the other users in your database because it doesn't have 272 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:47.000 a handle to your database. You just don't give it 273 00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:49.919 ever the handle to your database, except if you want 274 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:52.000 to give the handle to your database. Right then of 275 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:54.480 course it has no emission to use that. So it's 276 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:56.720 really up to you to the host program to think 277 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:59.799 about what is being given to the representd binary. And 278 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:01.720 that's where security comes and goes. Like if you give 279 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:04.039 everything to it, if you want to, you can, then 280 00:12:04.159 --> 00:12:06.120 the security goes out the window, right because you can 281 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:09.519 do everything, but it can be really deliberate if you 282 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:11.399 want to to only provide the things that you really 283 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:13.399 wanted to have. That's where the pluck and system comes in. Right, 284 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.000 If I have myselfwa as a service, and I want 285 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.159 my users to give, you know, write plug ins for 286 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:19.399 my service. I only give it the things that the 287 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:21.519 plug and should have. Nothing else is accessible. 288 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:24.600 Yeah, well, I mean. But the other cool thing too 289 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.559 is that's also interesting is usually for these kinds of 290 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:33.639 things that are cross platform, you know, like erlaining and Java, 291 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:36.159 you have to write in a specific language, right. But 292 00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:38.039 the other thing with wism is that you can use 293 00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:40.240 nearly any kind of language that you want, which is 294 00:12:40.279 --> 00:12:43.080 really exciting because you can literally write with Python or 295 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:46.399 JavaScript or any of these other kinds of languages or 296 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:50.519 even whatever, as long as you can convert that into Watson, right, 297 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:51.480 which is quite exciting. 298 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:54.320 Actually, at my day job, I have an experiment running. 299 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:56.799 It's not officially yet, so here here here the first time, 300 00:12:56.840 --> 00:12:59.519 if you might Colique, I actually have an image conversion 301 00:12:59.559 --> 00:13:02.519 service that for example, it takes like all weird image formats. 302 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:07.879 It's computing them, computing previous of those in websomentary. It's fast, 303 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:09.480 it's secure, we don't have to care if it's like 304 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:12.399 some unsafe thing that the user gives us as an image, 305 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:15.360 like some exploit, some hacker doing stuff. It's running in websentity. 306 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:17.600 It's secure, it's good, it's fast. So yeah, kind of good, 307 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:19.879 you say, is this but then you know, there comes 308 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:21.919 the part where you want to run this websomity in 309 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:24.600 all kinds of environments, not only US, not only jobascot, 310 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:26.559 not only the browser, about an alexir and this is 311 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:29.159 then you have to have a websentary run time that 312 00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:31.440 embeds into your Alexi code. And this is what was 313 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:33.960 an X is really about. So we talk all about 314 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:37.240 websmity to you know, sell the benefits, But wasn't X 315 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:40.159 the thing that I wildn't write. That's the Elexi part 316 00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:42.039 that when you have a websomity binary and you want 317 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:44.960 to run it and interface with it from Alexia. 318 00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:47.240 Well, let's kind of talk more about that. Well, actually, sorry, 319 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:50.159 before we talk about that. We did have a small discussion, 320 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:52.720 but we can be even higher level than that, because 321 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:54.720 I don't want to get into you know, this one's 322 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:56.720 better than that one. So you talk about watsom in 323 00:13:56.799 --> 00:13:59.440 terms of it's kind of like this run time, right, 324 00:13:59.799 --> 00:14:02.679 but if you try to get into wat them, there's 325 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:06.000 different kinds of run times that run That was and 326 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:08.440 that part is kind of confusing to me. But at 327 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:10.000 the same time, it's also not right, like we have 328 00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:12.639 the beam, but then again, like you can think about 329 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.440 if we compile our earline code, but then we have 330 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:18.120 different versions of the beam that we could run on. Okay, 331 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:19.519 this is not that hard to think about. It's just 332 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:21.759 a little bit strange, you know. Yes, it's a little 333 00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:24.080 bit confusing. How does that? Can you explain more about 334 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:25.480 why that is? Why don't we just have this a 335 00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:28.960 single runtime? Sorry, yeah, go ahead, No. 336 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:31.000 It's fine. I think your example with the beam is 337 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:33.399 a quite good one. Like, imagine we have the earl 338 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:35.399 and runtime to handle your beam file. It's right, But 339 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:39.039 then comes a company that maybe invents something on top 340 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.799 that makes it twice as fast, three times as fast, 341 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:43.919 and then maybe they have a good point to sell 342 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:46.519 that right, because it's only fair. It's running the same 343 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:48.720 beam file, it's just twice as fast, and maybe some 344 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:50.519 people want to pay for it, and that's the business. 345 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:53.200 So you can imagine that. Except with websent, we represent 346 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:56.039 is also your binary format. It's an open standard. Everybody, 347 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:59.080 you me, everybody can implement that format and build an engine. 348 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:01.919 It's you know, some people have fun doing that, and 349 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:03.960 maybe you can make a business out of it. If 350 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:06.639 you know, you can invent some things on top, maybe 351 00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:09.399 not only being faster, like I think inventing a u 352 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.960 JIT to be even more performed, maybe things like interfacing 353 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:16.080 with representitly in creative ways, adding a GPU to it, 354 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:18.799 and maybe enable the graphics landscape, like all things or 355 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.080 features you can imagine. And that's where the variat variety 356 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:24.919 comes from. Also the places where you run representitly. Is 357 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:27.320 it the cloud, is it edge computing? Is it embedded 358 00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:30.559 in your system somewhere? That's you know, all what companies 359 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:31.519 start to specialize in. 360 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:33.840 Okay, that makes a little bit more sense. Just that 361 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:35.559 was always confusing for me for a long time, like 362 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:36.919 when in a minute, why is it I have this 363 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:38.799 run time and this run time? I guess it's kind 364 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:41.159 of like darker. We have like a consistent darker file, 365 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:43.200 but then you can run them on pot man or 366 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:45.240 darker and there could be another kind of run time. 367 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:48.240 All right. Actually, for some reason, your thing made much 368 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:50.519 more sense than all the ethodic thinking I've been doing 369 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:53.559 for the past couple of weeks about this stuff. Yeah, yeah, okay, 370 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:55.879 that makes sense. So then you have this kind of 371 00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:57.679 trade off like hm, I want to follow this one 372 00:15:57.799 --> 00:15:59.360 or this one and then you can kind of make 373 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:03.480 your choice. Now coming back to your library, right, how 374 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:05.879 does it work? I mean, are you using a special 375 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:08.080 run time or is there you said there's some kind 376 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:11.639 of open standard like meaning backed run time form. Is 377 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:12.960 that that's what you're working with? 378 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:15.840 Yes, exactly. So what we actually do is we we 379 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.919 don't write or run racks with present in alex hear. 380 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:23.440 We actually use Rust on Rustler and Rust to interface 381 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:27.000 with wasn't Time. That's one of those engines that runs 382 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:29.799 websent and wasn't Max. Like the thing I write is 383 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:32.720 basically the glue code to make alex heir and the 384 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:35.600 beam with all its you know, special things like gen 385 00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:39.080 service and processes and how memory works and interface that 386 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:41.840 with Rust and the sea level of thinking like the 387 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:44.679 memory layout that you know have you have in Rust 388 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:46.840 and in the Sea land of things and that's the 389 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:49.039 group that I have. But yeah, that wasn't time in 390 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:52.559 basically written in Rust. That's the thing that we use underhood. 391 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:55.720 And it's an open source engine, so not a I mean, 392 00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:58.600 there's companies backing it, but the whole thing is open source. 393 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:00.720 They have that they are in all the stuff, not committees, 394 00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:03.879 and that's where I saw the most you know, progressant 395 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:07.000 and future of web assembly. But other people may have 396 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:08.160 different opinions that I see that. 397 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:09.720 Yeah, I see it from me on on here, I 398 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:12.799 think I wuck with them before interesting, I was just 399 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:14.519 looking at the bike Coode Alliance, which is which is 400 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.480 interesting too. Okay, thanks a very darker. 401 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:18.279