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<v Speaker 1>Well, whiskey, come and take my pain, the money.

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<v Speaker 2>The way, Oh whiskey. Why think alone when you can

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<v Speaker 2>drink it all in with Ricochet's Three Whiskey Happy Hour,

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<v Speaker 2>Join your bartenders, Steve Hayward, John, You and the International

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<v Speaker 2>Woman of Mystery Lucretia where the laps it up? And David,

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<v Speaker 2>ain't you easy on?

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<v Speaker 1>The show cats?

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<v Speaker 2>Gotta give me and let that whiskey.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome everybody to this super super special edition of the

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<v Speaker 3>Three Whiskey Happy Hour. Why because we're all together, although

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<v Speaker 3>it's only on Zoom, but we're happy to be together.

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<v Speaker 3>We really hate it when it's not all three of us.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll be honest with you. Think you just don't work

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<v Speaker 3>very well, you know Steve and I and we're not.

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<v Speaker 3>We're kind of uninteresting without John. I'll just say that.

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<v Speaker 3>So John, welcome back.

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<v Speaker 2>True.

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<v Speaker 3>See it is true. Yeah, because there's a nice balance

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<v Speaker 3>of you guys being idiots and me having but different kinds. No,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm kidding, but there is a nice balance between my

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<v Speaker 3>fiery sorts of ideas and Steve's historical analogies. And then

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<v Speaker 3>you come in and you're kind of this moderate guy

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<v Speaker 3>who just sort of elitist. You know, it all works,

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<v Speaker 3>It all works, and folks love it. They say that,

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<v Speaker 3>I know you don't read comments, but now the comments

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<v Speaker 3>mostly come to me as by the way, as private

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<v Speaker 3>messages on x and just sorry for this, but for

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<v Speaker 3>one of those private messages out there. I did open

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<v Speaker 3>my brunello last night as I was instructed, and you're right,

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<v Speaker 3>it's delicious. So I get all sorts of nice advice

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<v Speaker 3>as a result of people listening to this podcast. John,

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<v Speaker 3>you really should sort of be more open to the

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<v Speaker 3>idea of listening to the listeners once in a while.

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<v Speaker 3>But John, even when.

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<v Speaker 1>They hate there, are you kidding like the pedestrians that

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<v Speaker 1>I run over in my car?

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<v Speaker 3>No, these are our listeners are highly intelligent, thank you

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<v Speaker 3>very much. They are listen to influencers.

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<v Speaker 2>Lucretia exaggerates a little bit. There are many commenters, John,

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<v Speaker 2>who are on your side. Oh yes, really yes?

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<v Speaker 1>How many would you say is a percentage of our listenership?

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<v Speaker 2>H forty? I was gonna lower the.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow at any given time, John, at any given.

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<v Speaker 1>Time, I was hoping for a third.

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<v Speaker 3>The thing that frustrates our listeners most about you is

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<v Speaker 3>your purposeful ignorance about certain things that you refuse to

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<v Speaker 3>learn about them, and you refuse to learn about them.

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<v Speaker 3>Does that make.

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<v Speaker 1>Sense conspiracy theories?

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<v Speaker 3>No, I mean even just going outside of the the rate,

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<v Speaker 3>the lamestream media, whatever you want to call it, to

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<v Speaker 3>some more edgy kinds of media sources. You won't do that,

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<v Speaker 3>which is why you don't know a lot of things

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<v Speaker 3>that are happening because they aren't reported.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you talking about like professional wrestling magazines.

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<v Speaker 3>Like No, I'm talking about even just reading Breitbart or

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<v Speaker 3>reading Daily Caller or reading I don't know, Newsmax. There's

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<v Speaker 3>all sorts of places that you can get it from

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<v Speaker 3>besides X, which everybody should be on X. But anyway,

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<v Speaker 3>that's a different story. Okay, today we have some really

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<v Speaker 3>interesting things to talk about, because the life is just

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<v Speaker 3>interesting these days. We do want we're coming a little

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<v Speaker 3>late to the party, but my co hosts want to

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<v Speaker 3>talk a little bit about the hundred days. Why one

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<v Speaker 3>hundred days is an exceptional mark in a presidency is

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit lost on me. It reminds me of

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<v Speaker 3>my short time in the public schools, where at one

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<v Speaker 3>hundred days, that's where public schools get their budgets are

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<v Speaker 3>based upon what the attendance is enrollment and attendances of

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<v Speaker 3>public school children the first hundred days. So they always

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<v Speaker 3>celebrate it by counting one hundred m and ms and

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<v Speaker 3>one hundred beans and one hundred this and that. So

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<v Speaker 3>let's count one hundred beans and let me hear John,

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<v Speaker 3>what you have to think about the first hundred days

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<v Speaker 3>of the Trump administration.

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<v Speaker 1>So Steve recommended we read these accounts, which were much

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<v Speaker 1>more pro Trump than probably a lot of the people

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<v Speaker 1>in the media saying things like, well, Trump's been much

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<v Speaker 1>more successful. Trump's been the kind of change that conservatives needed,

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<v Speaker 1>basically because I think of his brashness and willingness to

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<v Speaker 1>disrupt and change things up. So I think there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of good that Trump has done. The thing that

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<v Speaker 1>worries me is whether it's going to be ephemeral. And

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<v Speaker 1>by that I mean a lot of things he's done

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<v Speaker 1>so far can be easily reversed, and what he really

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<v Speaker 1>needs to do is to get Congress and the courts

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<v Speaker 1>to codify what he's done so it becomes more permanent.

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<v Speaker 1>So take, for example, doge a lot of publicity. I think,

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<v Speaker 1>as all of us know, you're really not gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>able to cut the enormous federal budget deficit unless you

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<v Speaker 1>do something about social spending. Nevertheless, I think it's really

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<v Speaker 1>good that you sent this agency, you know, these outsiders

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<v Speaker 1>in defined as much cutting as can be done by

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<v Speaker 1>the budget and the budget yeah, and fraud and waste,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, and find fraud and abuse. But a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of it's not going to succeed unless Congress ratifies the changes, right,

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<v Speaker 1>Like you know, Doge can come in and say, we'd

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<v Speaker 1>like to fire these people, we'd like to cut the money.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's why we're seeing a lot of the litigation.

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<v Speaker 1>If Congress went in and authorized it, or if Congress

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<v Speaker 1>came in and just adopted all the changes does recommended,

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<v Speaker 1>there'd be no court suits. It would be if the

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<v Speaker 1>president Congress. So that's my point is Trump has did

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<v Speaker 1>a good job with getting rid of DEI, right, with

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<v Speaker 1>shaking up spending, with impowerments and so on. But they

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<v Speaker 1>could be very fleeting unless Congress, that is rep. Right

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<v Speaker 1>the House in the center of controller this. If he

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't do that to really close the deal, it could

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<v Speaker 1>all be fleeting successes. And that's what really worries me

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<v Speaker 1>about the first hundred days is that you don't want

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<v Speaker 1>them to be the first hundred days. You want them

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<v Speaker 1>to be the first you know, a thousand days. But

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<v Speaker 1>without Congress, it could just be a few hundred days.

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<v Speaker 3>Anyway, Steve, are you there? I guess Steve doesn't want

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<v Speaker 3>to play with us anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm totally here. I was just waiting my term patiently.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to interrupt.

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<v Speaker 1>That's not like you.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm you know, I uh well, I'm working on

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<v Speaker 2>my lafroy ten here tonight. I'm feeling mellow. Look. First

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<v Speaker 2>of all, a I don't like tariffs. I think you're

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<v Speaker 2>a bad idea. Be Trump is taking a huge risk

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<v Speaker 2>and he might win. That is the history of prompt

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<v Speaker 2>eastne that in business. And there's some evidence, and I

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<v Speaker 2>won't board listeners with it now that he may win

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<v Speaker 2>this battle. A lot of evidence out of China that

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<v Speaker 2>they're feeling the heat, and more and more news reports

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<v Speaker 2>that they're willing, they're ready to talk. They deny it,

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<v Speaker 2>but who knows what you believe what you read in

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<v Speaker 2>the media. But I think there's a chance Trump is

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<v Speaker 2>gonna come out on top of this. It may be

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<v Speaker 2>MESSI I don't like it, but nonetheless, let's reserve judgment.

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<v Speaker 2>But second about the forget all the stupid polls. This

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<v Speaker 2>is lucreatia. You had it right. This is a psi

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<v Speaker 2>op by the media, and I do remember it's maybe

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<v Speaker 2>kind of reversal in some ways but consistent in others.

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<v Speaker 2>But back in the Reagan years, Reagan was always popular,

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<v Speaker 2>except for when he had a recession and be Iran contra. Otherwise,

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<v Speaker 2>his popularity ratings were always great, and the media would say, well,

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<v Speaker 2>he's personally popular, but the American people don't like what

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<v Speaker 2>he's doing. That turned out if you actually pulled issues,

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<v Speaker 2>that was largely untrue. Also, there are a few places

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<v Speaker 2>he did poorly on issues, but in most places he

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<v Speaker 2>was His issue stands were just as popular as he was.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the media is doing that now, except I

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<v Speaker 2>do think there may be something to the view that

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<v Speaker 2>there's still a lot of people think, you know, Trump's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of rude, and I don't know, but we like

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of what he's doing, like at the border

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<v Speaker 2>and other things. And I think you discount these poles

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<v Speaker 2>that show him underwater on tariffs and all the rest

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<v Speaker 2>of that. I think some of that's genuine. But again

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<v Speaker 2>i'll just plant here the axiom I've said many times

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<v Speaker 2>that do not trust poles or do not credit polls

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<v Speaker 2>that are about attitudes about issues, because those are you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a mile wide an inch deep. And I'll stop there.

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<v Speaker 2>But the third thing is, look, the media has clearly

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<v Speaker 2>chosen sides, more so than they've ever done in their history.

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<v Speaker 2>We know they're always biased in the hostile to Republicans,

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<v Speaker 2>but they have decided they have to destroy Trump. And

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<v Speaker 2>so here to one hundred days. Okay, one hundred days

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<v Speaker 2>is arbitrary. On the other hand, it's an arbitrary measure

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<v Speaker 2>the liberals invented, so let's use it against them. And

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<v Speaker 2>so they're trying to say, oh, Trump's in big trouble,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know the VS Republicans like David Brooks says,

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<v Speaker 2>oh Trump's in big trouble. And that's why I was

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<v Speaker 2>taken by the articles first by Martin Gurry in City Journal.

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<v Speaker 2>I never heard of this guy until he wrote this

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<v Speaker 2>A hold up for you guys. He wrote this, Oh

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have my camera on. Sorry. He wrote this

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<v Speaker 2>big fat book six seven years ago about populism that

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<v Speaker 2>gets the whole matter quite right, I think. And he

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<v Speaker 2>says this week. You know, I underestimated Trump. Turns out

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<v Speaker 2>this guy's got more to him than I thought. I

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<v Speaker 2>think this is very significant when people who otherwise would

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<v Speaker 2>keep their distance from Trump say, oh, maybe there's something

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<v Speaker 2>to this guy. And then today Thursday, as we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>in the Wall Street Journal, my old colleague Karl zin Smeister,

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<v Speaker 2>who he used to clash with at the American Enterprise Institute,

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<v Speaker 2>has this article saying, boy, did conservatism ever need a

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<v Speaker 2>Trump reset? Why that's important? And for listeners who'd never

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<v Speaker 2>heard of Carl or don't know him, is he worked

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<v Speaker 2>in the George W. Bush White House. He is as

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<v Speaker 2>conventional and mainstream conservative as they come these days. That

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<v Speaker 2>would be criticism. It would it wasn't, you know, twenty

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<v Speaker 2>years ago? But yes, it was well for you, right, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>very good. I'm almost done to the crease. I promise

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<v Speaker 2>you're read very very patient with me tonight. But for

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<v Speaker 2>him to say that suggests to me why we're seeing

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<v Speaker 2>a what what is often called the cascade preference. But

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<v Speaker 2>the point is is that I think the story in

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred days is exactly the opposite of what the

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<v Speaker 2>media is saying. I think Trump is moving from triumph

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<v Speaker 2>to triumph. Oh, there's lots of things to say. This is,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, wrong, and this and that, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I can pick on lots of things he's said. But

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<v Speaker 2>of course I said that about Reagan too, who made

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<v Speaker 2>lots of mistakes a lot along the way. So I

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<v Speaker 2>think I give Trump an a plus at one hundred days.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm usually pretty tough on these things.

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<v Speaker 3>So I want to just throw out that. What I

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<v Speaker 3>told you guys, I was going to say is that

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<v Speaker 3>the people who have really been defeated in the first

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<v Speaker 3>hundred days are the are the Democrats. And Trump has

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<v Speaker 3>put the nail in the coffin. But I don't want

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<v Speaker 3>to leave it there, because what I want to say is,

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<v Speaker 3>not only are the Democrats lame and useless, and across

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<v Speaker 3>the board they have I mean, they have no bench,

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<v Speaker 3>they have no leaders, they have no consistent ideas except

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<v Speaker 3>for maybe falling back on, you know, the radical leftism

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<v Speaker 3>that got them defeated, you know, and they're fighting over that.

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<v Speaker 3>What it comes down to is the Democratic Party is useless,

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<v Speaker 3>and who's taken the opposition roll away from the Democratic Party.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the media. Yeah, it's the media, And so yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>and absolutely, stevee just give me a second. Pete Hegseth

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<v Speaker 3>goes on Twitter and puts up I got a score

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<v Speaker 3>of one hundred. Do you know what that score was?

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<v Speaker 3>It was media media? What's the media research or media?

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<v Speaker 3>I always get a mixed up the good guys versus

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<v Speaker 3>the bad guys. Whichever the good guys are. They came

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<v Speaker 3>out and said that in the month of I believe

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<v Speaker 3>it was the month of February March, one hundred percent

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<v Speaker 3>of the media coverage of hag Seth was negative.

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<v Speaker 2>That's our right, that's our friends, that's our friends at

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<v Speaker 2>the Media Research Center, Brents Bosel and those guys. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know anybody's ever gotten one hundred percent. So that

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<v Speaker 2>is a great achievement.

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<v Speaker 3>It is a great achievement. I mean, Elon Musk only

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<v Speaker 3>got ninety six percent, and who was it? Somebody else

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<v Speaker 3>only got somebody else came in at eighty six percent.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh Rfk came in and only eighty six percent. So

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<v Speaker 3>Haig says, says, you guys got to do better. But

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<v Speaker 3>that's a serious point. Go ahead, Steve, Well, there's just

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<v Speaker 3>one sentence.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it emerged this week that Hakeem Jeffries, the

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<v Speaker 2>House leader, announced the caucus, and somebody leaked it that

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<v Speaker 2>he said no more trips to El Salvador. Why more

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<v Speaker 2>information comes out about that guy they shipped over and

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<v Speaker 2>you forget due process in those arguments. But they realize

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<v Speaker 2>this is actually bad politics because it tells people we're

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<v Speaker 2>on the side of a gang member. We care more

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<v Speaker 2>about gang members and El Salvador than Americans in America.

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<v Speaker 2>And even dim with the Democrats can figure that out.

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<v Speaker 2>Let score another one for Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I totally agree with Lucretia that that, you know, what,

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<v Speaker 1>how are you know, troubled Trump's the first time the

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<v Speaker 1>days are no like however, however tru But I just

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<v Speaker 1>want to say Democrats are far worse shape. But that's

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<v Speaker 1>what But that goes to the tarrific economics issue to me,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the major I think major defect of the

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<v Speaker 1>first hundred days is that Trump's handing the Democrats the

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<v Speaker 1>issue of the economy. You know, the Democrats don't have

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<v Speaker 1>any issues other than just like what Trump's giving them.

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<v Speaker 1>They have no ur great lookers, they have no agenda,

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<v Speaker 1>they have no outstanding figures right they I was at

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<v Speaker 1>some event involving political scientists this weekend. They said, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the odds are that the Democrats will take the House

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<v Speaker 1>just because of normal historical patterns, there's sory such a slow,

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<v Speaker 1>small majority in the out of power party usually wins

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<v Speaker 1>the House and the midterm elections in a second term.

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<v Speaker 1>So the thing that that's why I think you're right

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<v Speaker 1>that the Democrats are in terrible shape. But if the

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<v Speaker 1>economy turns sour because Trump spent too much energy and

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<v Speaker 1>all these other issues in didn't address inflation and economy first,

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<v Speaker 1>then it'll been his own fault.

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<v Speaker 3>But you said yourself, Congress doing something. If Congress fails

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<v Speaker 3>to reenact the Trump tax cuts, then the tariffs don't

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<v Speaker 3>worry me. But if those tax cuts expire and huge

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<v Speaker 3>tax increases across the board, as much as the stupid

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<v Speaker 3>Democrats try to claim that they were tax cuts for

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<v Speaker 3>the rich, people like us and people that make less

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<v Speaker 3>money than a actually saw more money in their pockets

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<v Speaker 3>because of those tax cuts. And if those tax cuts

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<v Speaker 3>expire because the useless Republicans can't get off there you

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<v Speaker 3>know what's and get it done, then there will be

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<v Speaker 3>a recession and they will lose the House and probably

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<v Speaker 3>the Senate.

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<v Speaker 1>I was talking to a friend of mine who's, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>very prominent Wall Street banker, and he, you know, he says, look,

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<v Speaker 1>Trump can pull this out if two things happen. You

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<v Speaker 1>have to pull the get the tax cuts through, and

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<v Speaker 1>the tariff system has to and maybe it'll turn into

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<v Speaker 1>this mostly focused on China, that if we can actually

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<v Speaker 1>use the tariffs to enter into good trading deals with

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<v Speaker 1>our allies like the Europeans and we all have a

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<v Speaker 1>better free trade agreements with them, and all of us

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<v Speaker 1>raise tariffs on China, then actually it it will be

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<v Speaker 1>a great success. I'm not sure they're going to do it,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's the route out, and you know Trump has

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<v Speaker 1>a room to maneuver.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, let's let's on that happy note, take a break

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<v Speaker 3>for TAMU to come on and sponsor a program. And

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<v Speaker 3>we all know that what we need is a whole

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<v Speaker 3>lot more cheap Chinese goods at cheap cheap prices.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, how do you know that the ad we just

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<v Speaker 2>listened to, which is all customized to where listeners are,

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<v Speaker 2>was from I've.

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<v Speaker 3>Actually never heard a TMU ad. I've seen them all alright.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, no, Lucretia, I mean, I just wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>budle and say, look, I mean, yeah, we're the big enchilada,

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<v Speaker 2>as they say with our Spanish language ads. Is whether

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<v Speaker 2>the House and the Senate are going to get together

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<v Speaker 2>and pass a good tax cut bill over the summer.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the big drama. However, I think what should be

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<v Speaker 2>noted today and won't be in the press, is that

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<v Speaker 2>the House voted on Thursday in a bipartisan majority, with

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<v Speaker 2>thirty five or thirty six Democrats agreeing with Republicans to

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<v Speaker 2>kill California's electric car mandate, which something like twenty understand

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<v Speaker 2>it's a copied that's the mandate that said that by

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<v Speaker 2>the year twenty thirty five you cannot sell a gasoline

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<v Speaker 2>powered car in California, which is insane. And so now

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<v Speaker 2>there's been some thought that the Senate Parliamentarian says, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure this requires or that satisfies the requirements

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<v Speaker 2>of the Congression Review Act. And if John Thune does

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<v Speaker 2>not squash the parliamentarian and past this, then he will

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<v Speaker 2>be worse in your mind, Lucatia, I think than Mitch

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<v Speaker 2>McConnell as a Senate majority leader. That's all out.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Ouch, that's the worst. That's the worst you could be.

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<v Speaker 2>I know. That's why I brought it up.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, I don't know. I'm not I don't. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>worry about the whole tear of things. I think it's

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<v Speaker 3>I think you guys are going to realize that everything

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<v Speaker 3>I've predicted about this tear for is going to become true,

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<v Speaker 3>and that at the end of it, America will be

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<v Speaker 3>in a much better place. But I am prepared to

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<v Speaker 3>be corrected if it turns out you guys are right.

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<v Speaker 3>It just never happened that way. I'm all, I always

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<v Speaker 3>end up being right. But anyway, I actually saw the

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<v Speaker 3>funnies thing. I just have to go on this on

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<v Speaker 3>X about trying to teach people about tariffs, and I'm

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<v Speaker 3>not going to read the whole thing, even though it's hilarious,

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<v Speaker 3>but it starts off by saying that suppose you buy

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<v Speaker 3>an inflatable woman from China, and then it's the whole

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<v Speaker 3>thing about how teriff's actually work, and and and you

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<v Speaker 3>know the idea that a supplier would raise their their prices,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, fifty percent, if they could raise their prices

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<v Speaker 3>and get them to sell fifty percent higher, they would

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<v Speaker 3>have already done it, you know, so that's the whole

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<v Speaker 3>point of it. But it's a whole thing about buying

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<v Speaker 3>your inflatable women from China. So there you go. Off

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<v Speaker 3>to you all right, back to back to sirius. I'm sorry, Steve, Steve,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm embarrassing him.

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<v Speaker 4>You are my gosh, let's talk about Canada for a minute,

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<v Speaker 4>and I want to start start the conversation unless you

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<v Speaker 4>guys had to say about so des No, I want

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<v Speaker 4>to start the conversation with what I think is my

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<v Speaker 4>favorite post that I saw.

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<v Speaker 3>Of all times. And I'm so Steve. I listened to

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<v Speaker 3>your thing last week and your nice friend mister Bryce

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<v Speaker 3>has a pie mouth.

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<v Speaker 2>Well I know, yeah, but okay, so.

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<v Speaker 3>Because I'm quoting, I'm going to be like your nice

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<v Speaker 3>friend for a moment. So forgive me family show. We

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<v Speaker 3>can shit on Canada all day, but don't forget just

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<v Speaker 3>four years ago we in America elected a senile conman

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<v Speaker 3>who had accomplished nothing during his fifty years in government.

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<v Speaker 3>No nation is immune to the media stoked madness of

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<v Speaker 3>the electorate.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, fair enough.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, that's that's pretty much puts in a few words

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<v Speaker 3>what you said in your political Questions posts the other

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<v Speaker 3>day without the body part.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, I mean, well, I think it was an unforced

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<v Speaker 2>error on Trump's part because the idea of making Canada

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<v Speaker 2>the fifty state is really a bad idea. And that's because,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, there's a reason the Tories went to Canada

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<v Speaker 2>in seventeen seventy six, and why they accepted the metric

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<v Speaker 2>system in the seventies without any fuss, whereas we said, no,

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<v Speaker 2>we don't want that.

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<v Speaker 3>Crap, and they're seceeding.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yes, no, I well, I did say that in

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<v Speaker 2>my posts. Let's take Alberta in It's well, they're there. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>I said, let's entice them to become the fifty first state.

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<v Speaker 2>They are the Texas of Canada, by the way, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>again another reason to love Trump. He invited Jeffrey Goldberg

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<v Speaker 2>of the famous single Chat and the Atlantic editors to

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<v Speaker 2>come in and interview with I mean, Biden will let

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<v Speaker 2>anybody in for a free, willing, free wheeling interview, but

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<v Speaker 2>he had Jeffrey Goldberg in, and Jeffrey Goldberg pressed Trump,

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<v Speaker 2>I think exactly right, saying, wait, Canada would be a

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<v Speaker 2>liberal state. To be a democratic state, it would be

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<v Speaker 2>two democratic senators and twenty five Democratic House members, and

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<v Speaker 2>Trump said that's okay, I don't care. You know it

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<v Speaker 2>was I don't know, I don't know why. I think

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<v Speaker 2>i've heard the Actually I heard from shoot the Canadian

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<v Speaker 2>guy who came with us on Ricochet, whos and they

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<v Speaker 2>might forget who said this began as a joke. Whereas

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<v Speaker 2>Justin Trudeau was at marl Lago in December before Trump

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<v Speaker 2>was inaugurated and said something dumb and Trump just said,

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<v Speaker 2>you ought to be the fifty first state of America.

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<v Speaker 2>I call you, Governor Trudeau, and apparently Trudeau responded weekly

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<v Speaker 2>and so Trump ran with it the way Trump does.

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<v Speaker 2>Is the world's greatest comedian. You know, the world is

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<v Speaker 2>the greatest improv comedy club for Trump, which is not

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<v Speaker 2>a criticism, by the way, Maybe a little bit, but anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a dumb thing for to double down on

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<v Speaker 2>and keep talking about. And I think that was an

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<v Speaker 2>unforced era Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>Trump's mistake is not about conquest. It's why do they

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<v Speaker 1>get to be a state? Why don't we just take

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<v Speaker 1>over Canada and leave it as a territory so they

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<v Speaker 1>get no votes, no senators, They'll just be the Canadian

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<v Speaker 1>the northern territories. Yeah, they'll be like, you know, like

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<v Speaker 1>this Solomon Islands or something.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, we have I had not thought of that idea.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a great idea.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, we won't let there be slavery there either. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll just be a territory.

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<v Speaker 2>I have to say. If I I'll just say this,

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<v Speaker 2>If I am Alberta, my condition for joining the US

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<v Speaker 2>is that I am not subject to EPA and Department

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<v Speaker 2>of Interior regulation on developing the tar sands and oil

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<v Speaker 2>and mineral resources in Alberta because our so I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if people know this. In Canada, the provinces have a

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<v Speaker 2>lot more autonomy in their regulation of how they do

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<v Speaker 2>natural resource development. And so that's why Alberta is so

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<v Speaker 2>prosperous and can do things like the oil sands. If

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<v Speaker 2>they had national regulation, centralized regulation like we do, they couldn't.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think they don't. I mean I think they

420
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:49.599
<v Speaker 2>want you know, I don't know, but they want to

421
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:52.480
<v Speaker 2>make sure they don't fall under the oppression of a

422
00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:55.039
<v Speaker 2>future Democratic president. That's all.

423
00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:59.279
<v Speaker 3>All right, Well, let's move on to my next thing.

424
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:04.759
<v Speaker 3>Steve says it's not important, but Judge Dougan, now, first

425
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.559
<v Speaker 3>of all. Okay, a little lookism. We haven't had any

426
00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:11.400
<v Speaker 3>lookism for a while. I think that that awful Wisconsin

427
00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:13.599
<v Speaker 3>judge should be in peace just because she's fat and ugly,

428
00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:16.640
<v Speaker 3>and judges shouldn't be fat and ugly. But that's beside

429
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:17.160
<v Speaker 3>the point.

430
00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:19.400
<v Speaker 1>You have you looked at the Supreme Court lately?

431
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:21.160
<v Speaker 3>Actually? Have you looked at her?

432
00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:21.519
<v Speaker 1>Though?

433
00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:26.079
<v Speaker 3>I mean even even so to my or anyway.

434
00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:31.119
<v Speaker 1>I was just gonna say that the rule, like you

435
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:34.319
<v Speaker 1>know that being a good job, raising rising hind in

436
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:38.880
<v Speaker 1>the judiciary and appearance are inversely correlated for both men

437
00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:39.400
<v Speaker 1>and women.

438
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:45.519
<v Speaker 3>Do you think so? I mean, I despise the dread

439
00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:47.839
<v Speaker 3>coward Roberts, but he's not an unattractive guy.

440
00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Oh, there you have at Twitter verse, there's something

441
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:54.400
<v Speaker 1>for you to tweet about. Krisha has the hots for

442
00:23:54.559 --> 00:24:00.960
<v Speaker 1>Chief Justice. I did that theies Let them begin, start

443
00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:05.160
<v Speaker 1>your engines, Let the conspiracy theories go for will.

444
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:08.400
<v Speaker 2>I will just say that I saw the dread coward

445
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:12.599
<v Speaker 2>Roberts once in person and Vice President Cheney's house during

446
00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:15.039
<v Speaker 2>a Christmas party like two thousand and eight or something,

447
00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:18.559
<v Speaker 2>and you know that's a handsome guy. Yeah, anyway, he's.

448
00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:20.799
<v Speaker 3>Not bad looking. He's not my type because he's By

449
00:24:20.839 --> 00:24:22.200
<v Speaker 3>the way.

450
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Did you see Lucretia and John the the histogram this

451
00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:29.680
<v Speaker 2>week that Justice Jackson has spoken more than all the

452
00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:32.480
<v Speaker 2>male judges combined, and.

453
00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:35.480
<v Speaker 1>This week true from her very first term on. I

454
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:38.160
<v Speaker 1>bet I think think this year's unusual.

455
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, and apparently it might have been I'm not sure

456
00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:44.400
<v Speaker 2>which orgal argument this week, but Justice so to my

457
00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:48.279
<v Speaker 2>Ore interrupted and said, will you please let the lawyer finish?

458
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:51.359
<v Speaker 2>And I thought, oh, that's interesting. Even so to my

459
00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:53.519
<v Speaker 2>Or is tired of Jackson's loquaciousness.

460
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:57.000
<v Speaker 1>I'll put it that she's operating under a false impression,

461
00:24:57.079 --> 00:25:00.359
<v Speaker 1>because you know, she is like other justices are taking

462
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:02.680
<v Speaker 1>as their model Justice Scalia when he first showed up

463
00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:06.640
<v Speaker 1>on the bench, and he was extremely talkative, and it

464
00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:08.920
<v Speaker 1>did give him a certain influence. But that was because

465
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:11.319
<v Speaker 1>everyone else back then was like ninety years old and

466
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:14.839
<v Speaker 1>wasn't asking any questions. It's very different now now. I

467
00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:18.680
<v Speaker 1>think she's really harming herself by going on and on. Yeah,

468
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.079
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna give it, but let her let her talk more.

469
00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:23.960
<v Speaker 1>I hope she talks even more now than she has been.

470
00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:28.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the spin, I'm gonna give it. I find that

471
00:25:29.079 --> 00:25:32.960
<v Speaker 3>there's there's levels. So there's people who are very very

472
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:37.400
<v Speaker 3>smart and don't talk a lot and talk only when

473
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:40.519
<v Speaker 3>it's absolutely necessary. I would actually put Clarence Thomas. He's

474
00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:43.400
<v Speaker 3>not a talker, and he's not he doesn't ask a

475
00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.000
<v Speaker 3>lot of questions. Very very smart, it's not because he's

476
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:48.839
<v Speaker 3>not capable of it. And then there's those people who

477
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:52.680
<v Speaker 3>maybe on this particular issue it's not my strong suit.

478
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.319
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to be quiet. There's those people who are

479
00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:58.079
<v Speaker 3>just too dumb to know how dumb they are. And

480
00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:02.720
<v Speaker 3>that's where Katine and she comes in. I mean, I

481
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:05.920
<v Speaker 3>have yet to see anything intelligent come out of her mouth,

482
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:10.559
<v Speaker 3>never mind that she talks a lot. She's just not right. John,

483
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:12.559
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to put you on the spot. You said

484
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:15.079
<v Speaker 3>it yourself. Look at what the how much the Democrats

485
00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:18.000
<v Speaker 3>hurt their own cause by the affirmative action.

486
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:22.359
<v Speaker 1>In that case I'm trying to think about. I don't.

487
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:25.160
<v Speaker 1>I can't really. I mean, the thing is, she's trying hard.

488
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.640
<v Speaker 1>This is all of someone who's trying hard, but they're

489
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:30.440
<v Speaker 1>out of their depth. And that's just the questions. I

490
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.119
<v Speaker 1>can't think of a really outstanding opinion she's written. Now

491
00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:36.960
<v Speaker 1>they would bostly be dessents, but that actually means that

492
00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:39.680
<v Speaker 1>you have a chance to show your individual view and

493
00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:42.000
<v Speaker 1>your brilliance more actually when you're descent, because it's a

494
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:45.279
<v Speaker 1>personal thing, not writing for a five judged majority, so

495
00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:48.839
<v Speaker 1>you have more ability to show what you think. And

496
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:51.400
<v Speaker 1>I can't think I don't think her opinions have been

497
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:51.839
<v Speaker 1>very good.

498
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:55.039
<v Speaker 3>I think I can find, even so to myr opinions

499
00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:58.359
<v Speaker 3>that I think are well argued. Not all of them,

500
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:00.279
<v Speaker 3>of course, but I think that there are are some

501
00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:03.839
<v Speaker 3>that I've read that that I was actually okay, this

502
00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:05.039
<v Speaker 3>is a pretty decent opinion.

503
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:08.599
<v Speaker 1>I've never do the listeners know how crazy this is. First,

504
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Lucretius says, Soda Mayor has had a good opinion, and

505
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:14.240
<v Speaker 1>she has the hots for John Roberts. I mean, what

506
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:15.039
<v Speaker 1>is going on here?

507
00:27:15.079 --> 00:27:17.319
<v Speaker 2>And she said she agree with you about something, John,

508
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:20.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is okay.

509
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:22.319
<v Speaker 3>No, but I do think I think, you know, I

510
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:24.559
<v Speaker 3>think so My or was the same mistake. But she

511
00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:27.559
<v Speaker 3>hasn't turned out to be quite the disaster that Katangi has.

512
00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:31.440
<v Speaker 3>Katani's a wasted vote on the court is what it

513
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:31.880
<v Speaker 3>comes down.

514
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:36.000
<v Speaker 1>She's even worse than that. She's actually driving people towards

515
00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:38.880
<v Speaker 1>to sticking with the conservative That's why I'm like, put

516
00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:41.319
<v Speaker 1>more Katangi Brown Jackson's on the court. This has been

517
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:44.440
<v Speaker 1>great for us. Actually, had a.

518
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:48.200
<v Speaker 3>Smart leftist on the court, we'd probably been in a

519
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.519
<v Speaker 3>different place on a lot of these critical issues.

520
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:55.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, Yeah, that's the point. So Wisconsin judge, what's

521
00:27:55.880 --> 00:28:00.880
<v Speaker 2>your name? Judges, you just briefly tell listeners who may

522
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:03.000
<v Speaker 2>not know what you're talking. I expect mostly she's.

523
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:05.240
<v Speaker 3>A Wisconsin state judge, right state, not a.

524
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:06.599
<v Speaker 1>Core state judge.

525
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:09.039
<v Speaker 2>Elect.

526
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:11.400
<v Speaker 1>Yes, most most judge, most state judges in the.

527
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:14.920
<v Speaker 3>Country are lested them in one way or another. So

528
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:19.480
<v Speaker 3>she she obviously is very much against the Trump's deportation plan.

529
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.440
<v Speaker 3>She had a defendant inner court who had been accused

530
00:28:24.519 --> 00:28:29.279
<v Speaker 3>of battery and some other kinds of assault against two

531
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:33.319
<v Speaker 3>victims that were actually present in the court, and she

532
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.160
<v Speaker 3>was informed that Ice agents were there to take the

533
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:40.680
<v Speaker 3>defendant into custody. So long story short, she escorted him

534
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:42.519
<v Speaker 3>out the back so that he could sneak out of

535
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:46.599
<v Speaker 3>the courthouse. Uh, never telling the prosecutors or the victims

536
00:28:46.599 --> 00:28:48.559
<v Speaker 3>who sat there for the rest of the morning in

537
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:52.960
<v Speaker 3>court expecting this guy to show up. So that they could, uh,

538
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:56.200
<v Speaker 3>the prosecutor could bring the case against him, the victims

539
00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:00.240
<v Speaker 3>could give their point of view, and that what it

540
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:02.839
<v Speaker 3>actually happened is that Ice was too clever for this

541
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:05.799
<v Speaker 3>idiot judge and caught the guy anyway down the street.

542
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:10.880
<v Speaker 3>But she was subsequently arrested. She's being charged with you'd

543
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:13.880
<v Speaker 3>have to be more specific on what the actual crime is,

544
00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:16.079
<v Speaker 3>but it's caused the.

545
00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Simple obstruction of obstruction of justice.

546
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:23.440
<v Speaker 3>Okay, that's okay. But the interesting thing, in my opinion,

547
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:27.400
<v Speaker 3>is the reaction to it. And it was interesting at

548
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:32.000
<v Speaker 3>first because of course Democrats you had Amy Klobachar and

549
00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:35.759
<v Speaker 3>other idiots out there saying, oh, this is, you know,

550
00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:38.279
<v Speaker 3>an assault on the rule of law, and they're after

551
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:43.240
<v Speaker 3>judges and you know, just the stupidest things. And the

552
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:45.759
<v Speaker 3>next thing, you know, however, we find out that a

553
00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:48.759
<v Speaker 3>bunch of it's not just Paul Clement, but a bunch

554
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:53.440
<v Speaker 3>of established republic establishment Republicans and some firm have decided

555
00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:57.799
<v Speaker 3>to take up her defense because she's being charged by

556
00:29:57.799 --> 00:30:01.599
<v Speaker 3>the Department of Justice. She has been removed temporarily by

557
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:06.640
<v Speaker 3>the Wisconsin State Supreme Court, which is, as we all know,

558
00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:10.920
<v Speaker 3>because of recent elections dominated by Democrats, but even they

559
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:15.920
<v Speaker 3>found that her behavior was execreable and over the top.

560
00:30:16.519 --> 00:30:20.160
<v Speaker 3>And we have Republicans out there defending her, and I

561
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:21.839
<v Speaker 3>find that objectionable.

562
00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:25.839
<v Speaker 2>Steve, Wait, you're throwing us on me, okay.

563
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:27.720
<v Speaker 3>Because you said he didn't think it was a big deal.

564
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, well, I don't know. I don't know Paul Clement

565
00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:34.440
<v Speaker 2>very well. I've met him two three times. I have,

566
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:37.519
<v Speaker 2>like most practitioners, and John backed me up on this,

567
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:41.599
<v Speaker 2>have long admired his skill at the Supreme Court. I mean,

568
00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:43.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, if you ask me, who do you want

569
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:45.559
<v Speaker 2>to argue U case, I'd say is Paul Clement is

570
00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:48.559
<v Speaker 2>number one through five. I don't know why he's doing it.

571
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:52.039
<v Speaker 2>Maybe he really believes it, maybe he needs the business.

572
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:55.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean, let's remember listeners should know this. Who don't

573
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:59.200
<v Speaker 2>know who he is. Paul Clement essentially was forced out

574
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:01.680
<v Speaker 2>of his law firm, King and Spaulding. Why because he

575
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:05.559
<v Speaker 2>kept winning cases at the Supreme Court the partners didn't like,

576
00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:09.559
<v Speaker 2>for example, on gun control, on what it helped me out?

577
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:10.920
<v Speaker 2>John an Abortion and some other.

578
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:14.920
<v Speaker 1>King and King and Spaulding. It was he litigated in

579
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:17.839
<v Speaker 1>defense of the Defensive Marriage Act.

580
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:20.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah right, And then he went to.

581
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Another firm called King and Sir Kirkland and Ellis, which

582
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:26.359
<v Speaker 1>I think is now the largest firm, you know, the

583
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.960
<v Speaker 1>most financially profitable, richest firm in the world. And that's

584
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:33.480
<v Speaker 1>the firm that let him go because of his success

585
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:37.960
<v Speaker 1>on gun rights cases. Okay, and now he's actually defending

586
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:42.519
<v Speaker 1>some of these firms that are subject to President Trump's executive.

587
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:49.039
<v Speaker 2>Order right footnote by just go ahead, Well, it's it's.

588
00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:50.920
<v Speaker 3>Into the good graces of the establishment.

589
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Well I I don't well maybe, but I wouldn't necessarily

590
00:31:54.519 --> 00:31:57.480
<v Speaker 2>assume that I do. Recall that twenty five years ago,

591
00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:02.240
<v Speaker 2>now maybe thirty years ago. So John Eastman was originally

592
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:06.160
<v Speaker 2>at Kirkland and Ellis in LA and they said, oh, yeah,

593
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:08.000
<v Speaker 2>you can do pro bona work and he said, fine,

594
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:09.920
<v Speaker 2>I want to do pro bona work on behalf of

595
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:13.319
<v Speaker 2>the boy Scouts against the lawsuits saying they must permit

596
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:16.440
<v Speaker 2>gay Scout masters. And they said, no, you can't do that.

597
00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:18.599
<v Speaker 2>And that's when he left. And that's when ken Starr

598
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:20.640
<v Speaker 2>left around the same time, because he was working for

599
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:23.559
<v Speaker 2>ken Starr in LA at Kirkland Ellis. So this is

600
00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:26.400
<v Speaker 2>not a new subject. And look, I don't know. I mean,

601
00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:29.119
<v Speaker 2>like I said, Lucretia, I don't know Paul Clement, but

602
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:32.440
<v Speaker 2>I think very highly of his skill. And I'll just

603
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:32.960
<v Speaker 2>stop there.

604
00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:37.319
<v Speaker 1>And so let me say first, I think this judge

605
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:40.960
<v Speaker 1>is violating the law yep, and hasn't read the supremacy

606
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:44.680
<v Speaker 1>clause lately the Constitution, which says a federal laws supreme,

607
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:50.839
<v Speaker 1>and that includes immigration law. And it's not just state judges,

608
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:54.920
<v Speaker 1>no one. You, neither you, Lucretia and me have the

609
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:56.920
<v Speaker 1>right to say I'm going to follow some federal laws

610
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.279
<v Speaker 1>but not other federal laws. So I said, does a

611
00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:02.599
<v Speaker 1>state judge a right to hide Luigi Manzoni, the Manzioni,

612
00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:06.640
<v Speaker 1>the you know, the assassin in her chambers because she

613
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.000
<v Speaker 1>doesn't think he should Does she have the right to

614
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:13.200
<v Speaker 1>hide right drug cartel leaders because she thinks marijuana should

615
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:16.440
<v Speaker 1>be should be legal? Or in fact, I would say

616
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:20.319
<v Speaker 1>state judges have a special obligation to obey on federal laws.

617
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:22.839
<v Speaker 1>If you read the supremacy clause, it's very interesting. There's

618
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:26.480
<v Speaker 1>actually after the familiar you know, constitution, laws and treaties

619
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:28.759
<v Speaker 1>are the law of the land. It then says, and

620
00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:33.720
<v Speaker 1>state judges shall notwithstanding state law right there's a special

621
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:38.599
<v Speaker 1>obligation on state judges specifically to obey federal law. So

622
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:41.599
<v Speaker 1>that's one I don't now. You could see her defense

623
00:33:41.720 --> 00:33:45.119
<v Speaker 1>is going to be right. A state doesn't have to

624
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:48.599
<v Speaker 1>actively cooperate with the federal government to help it with

625
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:51.640
<v Speaker 1>immigration law. You can be a sanctuary city, but you

626
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:55.039
<v Speaker 1>can't obstruct the federal government. And that's what she did,

627
00:33:55.160 --> 00:33:58.880
<v Speaker 1>I think because she took the alien and took her

628
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:01.200
<v Speaker 1>to a place federal agent weren't allowed to go and

629
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:04.160
<v Speaker 1>snuck them out the back door, basically snuck the aliens

630
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:07.119
<v Speaker 1>out the back door while she sent the federal agents

631
00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:10.559
<v Speaker 1>on a wild goose chase. That's obstruction of justice. If

632
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:12.440
<v Speaker 1>you did that to federal agents who wanted to come

633
00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:14.280
<v Speaker 1>into your house for a warrant, that would be obstruction

634
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:16.800
<v Speaker 1>of justice. Now why Paul is doing it, I think

635
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:19.199
<v Speaker 1>is and I have known Paul long time, we clerk

636
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:23.519
<v Speaker 1>together right out of law school. I think I don't

637
00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:27.719
<v Speaker 1>think Paul is doing it for publicity per se, But

638
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:30.199
<v Speaker 1>I think I think this makes clear he's more of

639
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:32.920
<v Speaker 1>a never Trumper than people have thought. I think he

640
00:34:33.239 --> 00:34:36.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, he's representing law firms against the Trump law firm. Eos.

641
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:39.840
<v Speaker 1>He's representing this state judge. He is from Wisconsin, by

642
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:43.639
<v Speaker 1>the way, he's representing the state judge against the federal

643
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:45.079
<v Speaker 1>government's immigration authority.

644
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:49.280
<v Speaker 3>And every defendant deserves good representation, right.

645
00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:51.719
<v Speaker 1>But I mean, I don't you know, he's not I

646
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:55.280
<v Speaker 1>don't think he's a mega guy at any rate. I mean,

647
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:55.880
<v Speaker 1>I think he's a bunch.

648
00:34:56.840 --> 00:34:59.519
<v Speaker 3>But just to say that, John, let me just say

649
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:03.239
<v Speaker 3>for a moment, that's problematic in and of itself. That

650
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:07.679
<v Speaker 3>because you just made what I consider a rock solid

651
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:12.400
<v Speaker 3>case for why that judge obstructed justice and what.

652
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:15.719
<v Speaker 1>Why she should go to jail she should go to jail, And.

653
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:19.079
<v Speaker 3>I unless it's possible, this is the only thing that

654
00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:23.400
<v Speaker 3>I find would justify or provide a rationale for Clement

655
00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:25.199
<v Speaker 3>to do that, and that would be that maybe the

656
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:27.960
<v Speaker 3>facts of the case that we understand are not really

657
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:32.320
<v Speaker 3>the facts of the case. Maybe, But otherwise his never

658
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:38.480
<v Speaker 3>trump ism is somehow motivating him to become Party two

659
00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:43.760
<v Speaker 3>something that is really seriously problematic, you know. I mean,

660
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:46.119
<v Speaker 3>that's what I would say. I want to bring up

661
00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:48.519
<v Speaker 3>really quickly because we need to take a break. But

662
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:53.480
<v Speaker 3>the new Mexico judge, I read the article from ABC

663
00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:57.199
<v Speaker 3>is sent to my inbox for some reason, and they

664
00:35:57.239 --> 00:36:00.400
<v Speaker 3>talk about how that judge and his wife did all

665
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:04.119
<v Speaker 3>this for this particular trend Diagua gang members and the

666
00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:11.079
<v Speaker 3>one who the way that the ABC's news story said

667
00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:16.280
<v Speaker 3>it was, this particular illegal immigrant turned himself in after

668
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:21.519
<v Speaker 3>pointing a pistol at someone. And then that was sort

669
00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:23.880
<v Speaker 3>of in this tiny little thing, and then the rest

670
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:26.280
<v Speaker 3>of it was the injustices that had been done to

671
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:29.440
<v Speaker 3>him and to the New Mexico judge and his wife

672
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:33.039
<v Speaker 3>in the course of the Justice Department going after this

673
00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:36.679
<v Speaker 3>guy as if pointing having a gun and pointing it

674
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.840
<v Speaker 3>at someone isn't a problem a and especially a problem

675
00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:42.840
<v Speaker 3>for someone in the country illegally as a Trendiagua member.

676
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:47.159
<v Speaker 3>And it was my point is this there is another

677
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:50.920
<v Speaker 3>syop going on here, Steve, And that's what I wonder

678
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:54.960
<v Speaker 3>if Paul Clement is part of that. We want to

679
00:36:55.079 --> 00:37:01.239
<v Speaker 3>change the narrative away from what Trump is doing about

680
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:06.599
<v Speaker 3>the eleven million illegals or more that Biden led into

681
00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:10.559
<v Speaker 3>the country that the American people are profoundly happy about,

682
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:14.639
<v Speaker 3>especially because he's gone with criminals first and so on.

683
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.800
<v Speaker 3>They've got to change that. And if you're a never trumper.

684
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:21.639
<v Speaker 3>Even if you're a good Republican establisher, never trumper. You've

685
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:24.360
<v Speaker 3>got to you've got to stop this one way or another,

686
00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:29.159
<v Speaker 3>because otherwise Trump is going to be massively popular. That's

687
00:37:29.159 --> 00:37:30.559
<v Speaker 3>what I think is going on there.

688
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:36.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, okay, you're gonna win either way. Look, maybe, yeah,

689
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:39.719
<v Speaker 2>let me offer this is an exit thought again, not,

690
00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:42.079
<v Speaker 2>I mean maybe John is you know, you know Paul

691
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:43.880
<v Speaker 2>Clement way better than I do. I mean, I've barely

692
00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:45.880
<v Speaker 2>met him once or twice. He's done me a couple

693
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:49.159
<v Speaker 2>of very minor favors. When I asked for law students

694
00:37:49.159 --> 00:37:50.920
<v Speaker 2>who told me they'd like to medium, and I fixed

695
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:54.079
<v Speaker 2>up for them to medium, And it's okay, maybe he

696
00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:56.119
<v Speaker 2>knows this person. I don't know if he does or not,

697
00:37:56.320 --> 00:38:00.400
<v Speaker 2>but I'll just say this. You know a mutual friends

698
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:03.440
<v Speaker 2>whose name I won't mention, at a university in Texas,

699
00:38:03.559 --> 00:38:07.119
<v Speaker 2>not the one where you're visiting. John said, who's a

700
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:09.360
<v Speaker 2>classmate of ours with John Eastman? Who said, how can

701
00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:11.119
<v Speaker 2>you be friends with John Eastman? I mean, he's a

702
00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:14.519
<v Speaker 2>horrible person. He's a criminal and insurrectionists and blah blah blah.

703
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:17.840
<v Speaker 2>And our friend said, John is my friend, and I'm

704
00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:21.199
<v Speaker 2>gonna stick with him and good for him. And that's

705
00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:22.480
<v Speaker 2>sort of my view about it too.

706
00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:25.079
<v Speaker 1>And can I tell a story about John by the way,

707
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:30.000
<v Speaker 1>go ahead please? Here in Texas, just last Monday, John

708
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:32.400
<v Speaker 1>and I, John Eastman and I did a debate on

709
00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:37.960
<v Speaker 1>birthright citizenship. And so John was so pleased but also

710
00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:43.440
<v Speaker 1>secretly bombed that there was a protest sign outside and

711
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:47.159
<v Speaker 1>it was to protest me. They protested me. So I

712
00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:49.880
<v Speaker 1>got up and I said, you know, I know Texas

713
00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:52.559
<v Speaker 1>is a conservative state, but where have you guys been

714
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:54.559
<v Speaker 1>for the last twenty years? You're giving me a hard

715
00:38:54.639 --> 00:38:59.079
<v Speaker 1>time about Bush administration service twenty years ago. This guy

716
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:01.480
<v Speaker 1>just tried to over throw the United States government? And

717
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:05.559
<v Speaker 1>you're protesting me John Eastman? Where's wrong with you people?

718
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:08.239
<v Speaker 1>Have you not been around for the last twenty five years?

719
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:09.320
<v Speaker 1>What is going on here?

720
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:10.920
<v Speaker 2>John? How much?

721
00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:14.159
<v Speaker 1>And then I said, John Eastman loves debating because it's

722
00:39:14.199 --> 00:39:16.719
<v Speaker 1>the only time he can go out and debate, and

723
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:18.440
<v Speaker 1>he's not the protested speaker.

724
00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:21.239
<v Speaker 3>All right, let's take a break.

725
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:24.400
<v Speaker 2>See John, how much did you pay that guy? John

726
00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:25.840
<v Speaker 2>to mess with? John? Say? That's what.

727
00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:39.199
<v Speaker 3>And we're back to talk about Catholic charter schools or

728
00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:42.239
<v Speaker 3>proposed Catholic charter school So, John, I did try to

729
00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:45.400
<v Speaker 3>do my research, and I need you on this one.

730
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:48.519
<v Speaker 3>I need you to explain a to our listeners. What's

731
00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:52.840
<v Speaker 3>happening with the oral arguments this week in Oklahoma where

732
00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:57.679
<v Speaker 3>the state of Oklahoma is denying a public school charter

733
00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:06.559
<v Speaker 3>school charter to an online Catholic charter school that is

734
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:11.519
<v Speaker 3>run out of the Diocese of Oklahoma City, something along

735
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:11.960
<v Speaker 3>those lines.

736
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:15.039
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, that's about Those facts are right, and what

737
00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:19.519
<v Speaker 1>it calls on is for the Court to keep extending

738
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:23.760
<v Speaker 1>this principle it's been building for more than twenty years

739
00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:28.519
<v Speaker 1>now about if the government has a program where they

740
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:33.920
<v Speaker 1>give out benefits, where they give out grants, where they

741
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:39.679
<v Speaker 1>ask private groups to help participate in public programs, can

742
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:45.119
<v Speaker 1>the government exclude religious groups because the government thinks, oh,

743
00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:47.800
<v Speaker 1>if we do that, we're violating the Establishment Clause, which

744
00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:50.559
<v Speaker 1>says we can't set up or favor religion. And so

745
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:53.639
<v Speaker 1>steadily the Court has been saying no, the government cannot

746
00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:59.079
<v Speaker 1>exclude religious groups from participating on an equal foot in

747
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:04.280
<v Speaker 1>a non religious groups. So some examples would be if

748
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:08.960
<v Speaker 1>the government's giving out money to schools or to groups

749
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:11.519
<v Speaker 1>to fix up something like the parking lots is the

750
00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:14.400
<v Speaker 1>example in the case. Can you say everybody gets to

751
00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:18.000
<v Speaker 1>have the parking lot money, but churches? The Court said no.

752
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:23.159
<v Speaker 1>Another example is Philadelphia said we'll ask groups to help

753
00:41:23.239 --> 00:41:28.199
<v Speaker 1>us place adopted kids in families Philadelphia, City of Philadelphia,

754
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:33.320
<v Speaker 1>my city excluded Catholics, Catholic groups. Supreme Court said, no,

755
00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:35.440
<v Speaker 1>you can't do that. So one way to look at

756
00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:38.840
<v Speaker 1>this case is, can Oklahoma say we're going to have

757
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:42.400
<v Speaker 1>a very large charter school program where anybody can set

758
00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:46.079
<v Speaker 1>up a ch charter school except religious people. When you

759
00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:48.400
<v Speaker 1>look at it that way, it seems to me like

760
00:41:48.440 --> 00:41:50.440
<v Speaker 1>the court, well, this should be easy for the court.

761
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:53.960
<v Speaker 1>This is just like those other programs. People on the

762
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:56.960
<v Speaker 1>other side of it would say yes, but there's a line.

763
00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:01.599
<v Speaker 1>The line has always been, but public schools cannot have

764
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:06.599
<v Speaker 1>a religious religious element to them. And if you give

765
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:10.199
<v Speaker 1>money to charter schools, they are public schools. And they

766
00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:12.840
<v Speaker 1>would say the difference between all those other examples I

767
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:17.639
<v Speaker 1>gave you, it's private people making the decisions the right.

768
00:42:18.039 --> 00:42:23.360
<v Speaker 1>Catholic charity services in Philadelphia don't suddenly become public. You know,

769
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:27.360
<v Speaker 1>part of the government when they participate. Are charter schools

770
00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:31.360
<v Speaker 1>really still private schools or are they really public schools?

771
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:34.280
<v Speaker 1>If they're public schools, they can't have right they can't

772
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:38.119
<v Speaker 1>be a Catholic school. But to me it seems no,

773
00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:40.599
<v Speaker 1>they're the Catholic charter schools just saying we want to

774
00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:43.639
<v Speaker 1>participate just like any other charter school. You can't exclude us.

775
00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:48.039
<v Speaker 1>You're discriminating against religion. So that's the issue in oral argument,

776
00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:52.800
<v Speaker 1>it sounds this is weird because Amy Coney Barrett recused herself.

777
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:55.440
<v Speaker 1>She's been on the board I think of you know,

778
00:42:55.519 --> 00:42:58.239
<v Speaker 1>religious schools, so in her view, she had to recuse herself.

779
00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:00.840
<v Speaker 1>So I don't think she has any particular tie with

780
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:05.039
<v Speaker 1>this Oklahoma with this Oklahoma school anyway. So there's only

781
00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:08.800
<v Speaker 1>eight justices. I think almost certainly the four liberal justices,

782
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:11.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, the three liberal justices will vote against this.

783
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:15.119
<v Speaker 1>See even the Crease has got me thinking this way already,

784
00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:18.679
<v Speaker 1>So you know, yet the three liberal justices, I think

785
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:22.960
<v Speaker 1>they're like, this is like prior in public schools. We've

786
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.119
<v Speaker 1>always the Court has never gone back on saying you

787
00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:27.719
<v Speaker 1>can't have prior in public schools, you can't have religion

788
00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:33.079
<v Speaker 1>in public schools. I think Thomas, Gorsuch and Alito and

789
00:43:33.320 --> 00:43:39.760
<v Speaker 1>Kavanaugh in oral arguments seem pretty committed to this is

790
00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:42.320
<v Speaker 1>just like the precedents we've been building. Cavin in particular,

791
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:47.599
<v Speaker 1>was very strong oral argument about how this was banning religion.

792
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:51.679
<v Speaker 1>Roberts nobody can tell. He asked questions on both sides.

793
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:54.960
<v Speaker 1>If he goes along with the liberals. It's a four

794
00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:58.960
<v Speaker 1>to four decision, which means the lower court decision stands

795
00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:03.599
<v Speaker 1>and the lower court vision banned the Catholic charter school.

796
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:08.320
<v Speaker 3>Before Steve steps in, I have a couple of comments,

797
00:44:08.440 --> 00:44:10.840
<v Speaker 3>so I'm gonna I'm gonna be Roberts here for a moment.

798
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:16.440
<v Speaker 3>The first one is that, on the one hand, from

799
00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:20.639
<v Speaker 3>a purely policy point of view, the absolute worst thing

800
00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:24.840
<v Speaker 3>that a Catholic char Catholic school could do would be

801
00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:28.800
<v Speaker 3>to become a public school and thereby have to follow

802
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:32.920
<v Speaker 3>all of the rules and regulations that they have, you know,

803
00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:38.599
<v Speaker 3>the massive amount of federal regulations that they would then

804
00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:42.800
<v Speaker 3>be required, and probably Oklahoma state regulations as well. So

805
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:46.400
<v Speaker 3>you know, we're seeing evidence of that in the Harvard

806
00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:50.039
<v Speaker 3>cases and so on. It's actually much much worse at

807
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:52.840
<v Speaker 3>the K twelve level than it is at the universities.

808
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:53.480
<v Speaker 3>Believe it or not.

809
00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:54.480
<v Speaker 5>Yes that.

810
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:56.880
<v Speaker 3>On the other hand, what I will tell you is

811
00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:05.000
<v Speaker 3>that in public charter schools and private parochial schools, federal

812
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:12.519
<v Speaker 3>money must go to those schools. District public public school

813
00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:16.000
<v Speaker 3>districts must give some of their title IE money and

814
00:45:16.039 --> 00:45:19.559
<v Speaker 3>their idea, their their special education money, their title to

815
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:22.960
<v Speaker 3>money which is highly qualified teachers, Title three which is

816
00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:28.440
<v Speaker 3>of English Language learners, so on and so on. They

817
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:32.800
<v Speaker 3>must give a certain percentage of that money in certain

818
00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:37.599
<v Speaker 3>ways to private parochial schools. They are obligated to do

819
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:45.760
<v Speaker 3>so under federal law. So already we know that money money,

820
00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:50.400
<v Speaker 3>but it's federal money, must go to these private parochial schools.

821
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:55.679
<v Speaker 3>This is a question about whether or not I wanted

822
00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:57.280
<v Speaker 3>to bring this up just to see what you thought

823
00:45:57.320 --> 00:46:00.920
<v Speaker 3>about it. There are people who argue that the First Amendment,

824
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:06.159
<v Speaker 3>which says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment

825
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:09.639
<v Speaker 3>of religion, what that always meant, at least in the

826
00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:13.599
<v Speaker 3>view of the framers, was that Congress could not force

827
00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:18.559
<v Speaker 3>a state into an establishment of religion or to recognize

828
00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:22.480
<v Speaker 3>an establishment religion. And then in fact, the Congress shall

829
00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:26.519
<v Speaker 3>make no law is not an individual right. It is

830
00:46:26.599 --> 00:46:29.880
<v Speaker 3>in fact a protection for the states. I don't know

831
00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:31.960
<v Speaker 3>what you think about that, but no, no, I.

832
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:35.000
<v Speaker 1>Think actually Justice Thomas has that view. I think he's said,

833
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:39.599
<v Speaker 1>when you incorporate the Bill of Rights, establish the establishing

834
00:46:39.639 --> 00:46:44.480
<v Speaker 1>Clause can't be incorporated because there were established churches at

835
00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:46.960
<v Speaker 1>the state level at the time of the passage of

836
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:49.199
<v Speaker 1>the Bill of Rights, and no one thought they were unconstitutional.

837
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.280
<v Speaker 1>So it's really a pro federalism protection, the establishing Clause,

838
00:46:54.280 --> 00:46:58.079
<v Speaker 1>because it's protecting the state right to have established churches

839
00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:01.079
<v Speaker 1>by denying the federal governments right to right create one

840
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:04.679
<v Speaker 1>and squash those state ones. So that doesn't that doesn't

841
00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:08.400
<v Speaker 1>work as a incorporated Bill of Rights because, as you said,

842
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:10.800
<v Speaker 1>the crease it's not an individual right. It's a limitation

843
00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:12.760
<v Speaker 1>on the power of the government. It's not like the

844
00:47:12.760 --> 00:47:15.599
<v Speaker 1>free exercise Clause, which obviously can be incorporated. So I

845
00:47:16.039 --> 00:47:18.760
<v Speaker 1>don't think that's a crazy view at all. I think

846
00:47:18.760 --> 00:47:22.199
<v Speaker 1>actually that's probably the right reading of the clause. And

847
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:24.719
<v Speaker 1>there's I think I don't know about other justices, but

848
00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:27.679
<v Speaker 1>I know for sure Justice Thomas thinks that he's got

849
00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:29.639
<v Speaker 1>an opinion about it. I don't know if any other

850
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:31.039
<v Speaker 1>justices have joined him in it.

851
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:37.119
<v Speaker 2>Steve, Well, here's what I think. Maybe we should do

852
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:40.920
<v Speaker 2>an entire episode just on the separation of church and

853
00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:44.280
<v Speaker 2>squat church in squait state question.

854
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:47.199
<v Speaker 1>And that's really good, Lafreud, you're cheeking there.

855
00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:50.519
<v Speaker 3>Still, Well, there's really no such thing.

856
00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:54.519
<v Speaker 2>Go ahead. Look, I think we should do a whole

857
00:47:54.519 --> 00:47:57.440
<v Speaker 2>episode on this that not only goes through the incoherence

858
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:00.639
<v Speaker 2>of some key cases, but also maybe Cretia does a

859
00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:04.400
<v Speaker 2>little bit about the underlying problem of the theological political problem,

860
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:06.880
<v Speaker 2>which is abstract and will be way over John's head

861
00:48:06.920 --> 00:48:09.920
<v Speaker 2>and bore him to death. I'll just say briefly that

862
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:13.039
<v Speaker 2>two things. One is, you know, I do think the

863
00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:16.320
<v Speaker 2>court has been incoherent and idiotic about this for decades.

864
00:48:17.079 --> 00:48:19.840
<v Speaker 2>And my favorite example was the one Pat moynihand like

865
00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:22.000
<v Speaker 2>to point two. In the seventies, there were two cases

866
00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:25.880
<v Speaker 2>I forget their names, but one of them, well, yes,

867
00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:28.320
<v Speaker 2>well let me go through it for the listeners. One

868
00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:31.039
<v Speaker 2>was a court said no, no, a public school district

869
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:35.199
<v Speaker 2>cannot give old textbooks that they're not using anymore to

870
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:38.599
<v Speaker 2>a Catholic parochial school. That would cross the line of

871
00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:41.920
<v Speaker 2>the separation of church and state and be government approval

872
00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:45.079
<v Speaker 2>of religion. Okay, so you can't give them old textbooks

873
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:47.599
<v Speaker 2>you're otherwise going to throw out. But then in a

874
00:48:47.639 --> 00:48:49.840
<v Speaker 2>subsequent case, a year or two later, they said you

875
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:55.320
<v Speaker 2>can share maps with parochial schools. And what that was about,

876
00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:58.920
<v Speaker 2>by the way, entirely practical. It was the parochial schools

877
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:01.000
<v Speaker 2>are going to run their buses and the public schools

878
00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:03.400
<v Speaker 2>are going to run their own buses. And it's not

879
00:49:03.559 --> 00:49:05.880
<v Speaker 2>a bad thing from a common sense point of view

880
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:08.719
<v Speaker 2>to have the two bus systems knowing the bus routes

881
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:12.880
<v Speaker 2>and times. It just makes for less traffic congestion and logistics.

882
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:16.280
<v Speaker 2>So that makes perfect sense. Oh, that's okay. And that's

883
00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:21.679
<v Speaker 2>when Pat moynihan asked Platt. Moynihan asked, what about an atlas?

884
00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:24.599
<v Speaker 2>What would the Supreme Court say about an atlas? Could

885
00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:27.280
<v Speaker 2>they give an atlas to a public to a parochial school?

886
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:29.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that just shows you how stupid and incoherent

887
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:33.559
<v Speaker 2>all the jurisprudence on this was. I will add Lucretia

888
00:49:33.719 --> 00:49:37.760
<v Speaker 2>your point about Uh, Look, Catholic schools or any religious

889
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:40.320
<v Speaker 2>school ought to be worried about taking public money because

890
00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:43.800
<v Speaker 2>you have public strings that's a point that some hardcore

891
00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:46.239
<v Speaker 2>school choice people have been making for a long time,

892
00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:50.679
<v Speaker 2>and I'll just say that very Excuse me. It varies

893
00:49:50.679 --> 00:49:53.880
<v Speaker 2>from state to state. But why do the teachers' unions

894
00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:58.760
<v Speaker 2>hate charter schools? Because they have been largely deregulated. That

895
00:49:58.840 --> 00:50:01.880
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean they're perfect, but they are sealed off in

896
00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:04.960
<v Speaker 2>most legislation from a lot not all, but a lot

897
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:07.960
<v Speaker 2>of bureaucracy and a lot of the nonsense. Now can

898
00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:10.719
<v Speaker 2>they resist that over time? Maybe not. It's a very

899
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:16.760
<v Speaker 2>valuable caution. But I think the view that we might

900
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:19.519
<v Speaker 2>not want to be too excited about a decision in

901
00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:22.079
<v Speaker 2>favor of the Catholic schools is one that we should

902
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:23.280
<v Speaker 2>hold in suspension.

903
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:26.679
<v Speaker 3>I actually don't know exactly where I would come down

904
00:50:26.719 --> 00:50:30.320
<v Speaker 3>on it. I'm glad I'm not being asked to argue

905
00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:34.679
<v Speaker 3>it because I have seen what federal regulations due to

906
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:40.079
<v Speaker 3>K twelve schools and we know that that. I mean,

907
00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:48.280
<v Speaker 3>the evidence, the correlative evidence between the interference of the

908
00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:54.280
<v Speaker 3>Federal Department of Education and student learning and success is overwhelming,

909
00:50:55.119 --> 00:50:59.920
<v Speaker 3>and I think it probably ventures into the causation part. Anyway,

910
00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:02.039
<v Speaker 3>Thank you for that, John, because I think that was

911
00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:05.400
<v Speaker 3>really helpful. Do you want to take a quick break

912
00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:07.480
<v Speaker 3>and we'll come back and finish up all the rest

913
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:14.960
<v Speaker 3>of our issues for today. One last issue I'm going

914
00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:17.519
<v Speaker 3>to go back to John Is. I do want you

915
00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:20.000
<v Speaker 3>to because you mentioned it briefly a little bit earlier,

916
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:24.199
<v Speaker 3>when you were talking about universal injunctions, or you were

917
00:51:24.199 --> 00:51:26.880
<v Speaker 3>talking about the court's reigning in Trump a little bit.

918
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:31.119
<v Speaker 3>We missed you last week. There have been quite a

919
00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:38.519
<v Speaker 3>few more district court judges issuing injunctions about the Alien Act,

920
00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:42.840
<v Speaker 3>the Alien Enemies Act, whatever it's called about, no more

921
00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:46.079
<v Speaker 3>deporting people to El Salvador, on and on. Can you

922
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:48.760
<v Speaker 3>just give us a little bit better than I was

923
00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:52.599
<v Speaker 3>able to do reading your article and summarizing it, where

924
00:51:52.679 --> 00:51:56.639
<v Speaker 3>you come down on this question of universal injunctions and

925
00:51:56.800 --> 00:51:59.559
<v Speaker 3>what the dread coward Roberts should do about it.

926
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:06.559
<v Speaker 1>So, see, these universal injunctions I think are actually unconstitutional

927
00:52:07.159 --> 00:52:10.960
<v Speaker 1>because they take the federal courts out of their proper

928
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:16.679
<v Speaker 1>role of deciding cases or controversies into policymaking, into sort

929
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:19.679
<v Speaker 1>of running the government as a whole. So an Article

930
00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:23.039
<v Speaker 1>three of the Constitution says the federal judicial power shall

931
00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:26.199
<v Speaker 1>extend to all cases or controversies, and then it says

932
00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:30.360
<v Speaker 1>that arise under federal law is basically the main jurisdiction.

933
00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:34.519
<v Speaker 1>So think about what happens in a nationwide jurisdiction case

934
00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:38.599
<v Speaker 1>you've got, like in the Venezuela case, six Venezuelans, lawyers

935
00:52:38.599 --> 00:52:42.960
<v Speaker 1>for six Venezuelans sue the government in Washington, d C.

936
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:47.159
<v Speaker 1>And they say, right, we're being deported from the country

937
00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:52.679
<v Speaker 1>without due process. You must give us relief. The judge there, Boseburg, says,

938
00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:56.360
<v Speaker 1>not only does he stop everything for the sixth Venezuelans,

939
00:52:56.400 --> 00:53:00.000
<v Speaker 1>he says, and the government cannot deport anyone from Venice

940
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:04.719
<v Speaker 1>Isuela nationwide. The reason I think that's unconstitutional is that

941
00:53:04.760 --> 00:53:10.239
<v Speaker 1>he's extending his power over thousands and thousands of other

942
00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:12.119
<v Speaker 1>people who have not appeared in his courtroom, who did

943
00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:15.199
<v Speaker 1>not bring suit. And so I would say the federal

944
00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:18.119
<v Speaker 1>judicial power doesn't allow you to do that, because otherwise then

945
00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:21.280
<v Speaker 1>you can get any federal judge to basically take over

946
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:25.639
<v Speaker 1>any federal program any time you won, without regard to

947
00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:29.199
<v Speaker 1>where the actual cases, which is just between the simple

948
00:53:29.239 --> 00:53:32.159
<v Speaker 1>plaintiffs and the simple defendants who show up in court.

949
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:35.119
<v Speaker 1>And Justice Scalia had a great opinion warning about this

950
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:37.800
<v Speaker 1>where he said, if court start to go beyond that

951
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:41.159
<v Speaker 1>main limit on their power, they will become like a

952
00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:43.159
<v Speaker 1>third you know, they will become like the third House

953
00:53:43.159 --> 00:53:47.159
<v Speaker 1>of Congress or an a roving ombudsman in the executive branch,

954
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:49.760
<v Speaker 1>because they will really have the final word on what

955
00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:52.599
<v Speaker 1>policies go forward for the country and which ones don't.

956
00:53:53.199 --> 00:53:56.599
<v Speaker 1>And so I think this Roberts has a great opportunity

957
00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:00.320
<v Speaker 1>to actually diffuse a lot of these cases against the

958
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:02.800
<v Speaker 1>Trump administration by saying, a lot of these judges are

959
00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:07.280
<v Speaker 1>just acting unconstitutionally. They should only limit their decisions to

960
00:54:07.400 --> 00:54:09.559
<v Speaker 1>the case before them, and they'll go up through the

961
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:13.960
<v Speaker 1>normal process of appeals, but the government's are handicapped while

962
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:14.679
<v Speaker 1>that happens.

963
00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:16.679
<v Speaker 3>And how could he do that? John?

964
00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:17.599
<v Speaker 2>Could?

965
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:20.039
<v Speaker 1>I mean, because he just he could just go out.

966
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:22.199
<v Speaker 3>Like he did with Trump when he got upset when

967
00:54:22.199 --> 00:54:25.639
<v Speaker 3>Trump criticized that Hispanic judge and you know, got out

968
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:28.840
<v Speaker 3>there and got all upset in beside himself and said

969
00:54:28.840 --> 00:54:31.800
<v Speaker 3>that judges only call balls and strikes and you know

970
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:33.480
<v Speaker 3>all that nonsense. Does he go out there and do

971
00:54:33.559 --> 00:54:36.280
<v Speaker 3>that or does he actually make a ruling?

972
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:39.000
<v Speaker 1>No, it's through a case, through that case on May fifteenth, right,

973
00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:41.239
<v Speaker 1>they put this is the other amazing right. They've scheduled

974
00:54:41.239 --> 00:54:44.280
<v Speaker 1>a special session on May fifteenth, when you know usually

975
00:54:44.639 --> 00:54:47.440
<v Speaker 1>they'd be done here in cases in April, they're already done. Basically,

976
00:54:47.559 --> 00:54:49.760
<v Speaker 1>I think this might be the last week of normal argument.

977
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:53.159
<v Speaker 1>They have special a special They've scheduled a special session

978
00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:56.519
<v Speaker 1>for May fifteenth to hear arguments about whether to stop

979
00:54:56.639 --> 00:54:59.920
<v Speaker 1>nationwide in junctions. So they would just say in an

980
00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:05.079
<v Speaker 1>in case, you could say, for it involves birthright citizenship,

981
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:08.960
<v Speaker 1>so they could say, okay, district judge, you have this

982
00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:13.000
<v Speaker 1>person who wanted to passport, and you think that the

983
00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:15.039
<v Speaker 1>government has to give it to everyone born in the country,

984
00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:18.400
<v Speaker 1>So order the passport for that one person. What the

985
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:20.679
<v Speaker 1>judge can't do is say, and everyone else in the

986
00:55:20.679 --> 00:55:23.679
<v Speaker 1>country gets a passport too, even people who never sued

987
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:26.320
<v Speaker 1>aren't here. And you know it ties into Lincoln because

988
00:55:26.320 --> 00:55:31.199
<v Speaker 1>you remember, if nationwide injunctions were correct, Lincoln could never

989
00:55:31.239 --> 00:55:33.599
<v Speaker 1>have taken the position he did on dred Scott. Remember

990
00:55:33.639 --> 00:55:38.800
<v Speaker 1>Lincoln said, I disagree with dred Scott. I don't think

991
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:42.519
<v Speaker 1>the logic binds me. I will if I found dread

992
00:55:42.559 --> 00:55:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Scott himself, I would obey the court's decision and hand

993
00:55:46.039 --> 00:55:48.360
<v Speaker 1>dred Scott back to his owner. But I'm not going

994
00:55:48.440 --> 00:55:52.639
<v Speaker 1>to do it affirmatively for everybody else. If people want

995
00:55:52.719 --> 00:55:54.599
<v Speaker 1>dred Scott to be the law and make me obey it,

996
00:55:54.639 --> 00:55:58.280
<v Speaker 1>they have to bring an individual lawsuit for every single slave.

997
00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:03.280
<v Speaker 1>And that if right, if nationwide junctions are actually constitution possible,

998
00:56:03.320 --> 00:56:06.480
<v Speaker 1>then Lincoln's wrong about dred Scott. I tend to vote

999
00:56:06.519 --> 00:56:09.519
<v Speaker 1>with Lincoln, not all these you know, wayward district judges

1000
00:56:09.559 --> 00:56:10.800
<v Speaker 1>who think they're running the country.

1001
00:56:11.159 --> 00:56:13.559
<v Speaker 3>And there is a slight difference even in the example

1002
00:56:13.599 --> 00:56:16.519
<v Speaker 3>that you give, because that decision, this dread Scott decision,

1003
00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:19.400
<v Speaker 3>was actually a Supreme Court decision, and he was arguing

1004
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:22.920
<v Speaker 3>that even the Supreme Court should not have that kind

1005
00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:26.599
<v Speaker 3>of power because we would have surrendered all of our

1006
00:56:27.639 --> 00:56:31.599
<v Speaker 3>power to that eminent tribual, or our democratic Republic to

1007
00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:34.760
<v Speaker 3>that eminent tribual. It does seem to me to be

1008
00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:38.760
<v Speaker 3>over the top idea that a district court judge could

1009
00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:42.639
<v Speaker 3>in fact issue a decision beyond their own district. But

1010
00:56:42.800 --> 00:56:47.119
<v Speaker 3>if they decide if the dread coward Roberts actually gets

1011
00:56:47.239 --> 00:56:50.440
<v Speaker 3>enough members of the court to agree to the position

1012
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:55.519
<v Speaker 3>that you have so carefully laid out, Will that automatically

1013
00:56:55.880 --> 00:57:01.800
<v Speaker 3>just wipe out all of those universal injunctions that what

1014
00:57:01.880 --> 00:57:03.519
<v Speaker 3>have their bits seventy of them or something?

1015
00:57:03.719 --> 00:57:06.719
<v Speaker 1>Yes, they would. Yeah, if they decide that way, all

1016
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:09.800
<v Speaker 1>those universal injunction cases would be lifted, All those would

1017
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:13.159
<v Speaker 1>be lifted. They would all be instantly unconstitutional. That's why

1018
00:57:13.239 --> 00:57:15.760
<v Speaker 1>it's a really this case could be a really big

1019
00:57:15.800 --> 00:57:18.800
<v Speaker 1>win for Trump. But Roberts can sit there and say,

1020
00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:20.880
<v Speaker 1>but we didn't decide on birthright, we didn't decide on

1021
00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:24.199
<v Speaker 1>the Alien Enemies Act. Those will work themselves up in

1022
00:57:24.280 --> 00:57:26.920
<v Speaker 1>those cases, and that's the governments can still.

1023
00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1024
00:57:27.480 --> 00:57:29.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's what would be normal. That's the way

1025
00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:34.039
<v Speaker 1>it usually was until you know, really until the twenty's

1026
00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:37.039
<v Speaker 1>and twenty tens, where there were never niche Ine junctions

1027
00:57:37.039 --> 00:57:38.920
<v Speaker 1>before this, and that's the way it normally worked.

1028
00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:42.440
<v Speaker 3>Okay, Steve, do you have any comments about that?

1029
00:57:43.079 --> 00:57:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Nope?

1030
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:45.840
<v Speaker 3>All right, then let's take a break. We'll come back

1031
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:48.079
<v Speaker 3>and do some Babylon bees. I hope you have something

1032
00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:55.800
<v Speaker 3>less than lame this time, ja, Steve. All right, So, folks,

1033
00:57:55.840 --> 00:57:58.360
<v Speaker 3>I promised Steve, and I forgot because they got carried

1034
00:57:58.360 --> 00:58:03.199
<v Speaker 3>away listening to John about my favorite.

1035
00:58:02.840 --> 00:58:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Talk well, espially when Steve just wants to talk about

1036
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:05.559
<v Speaker 1>dead people.

1037
00:58:06.159 --> 00:58:09.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Steve wants to talk So Steve wants to talk

1038
00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:11.920
<v Speaker 3>about you know, he's wearing a red shirt again, John,

1039
00:58:11.960 --> 00:58:15.000
<v Speaker 3>what do you expect he wants to talk about a communist? Oh? Okay,

1040
00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:19.320
<v Speaker 3>an ex communist. Let me say really quick, so Steve,

1041
00:58:19.360 --> 00:58:22.639
<v Speaker 3>so you can go off on your tangent forever that

1042
00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:27.119
<v Speaker 3>I remember when I was working on my dissertation, I

1043
00:58:27.159 --> 00:58:29.599
<v Speaker 3>lived in the mountains and I didn't have a television,

1044
00:58:29.800 --> 00:58:34.320
<v Speaker 3>and so my contact with the outside world was this

1045
00:58:34.480 --> 00:58:37.119
<v Speaker 3>was before the internet. Things that I got in the

1046
00:58:37.159 --> 00:58:39.000
<v Speaker 3>mail that I had to drive into town to go

1047
00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:42.840
<v Speaker 3>to my post office box. But I got Heterodoxy, the

1048
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:48.599
<v Speaker 3>magazine back in those days. And there were two articles

1049
00:58:48.760 --> 00:58:52.000
<v Speaker 3>that I can't even remember if David Horowitz wrote them

1050
00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:55.360
<v Speaker 3>or they were just in his publication. The first one

1051
00:58:55.440 --> 00:59:02.079
<v Speaker 3>was a really excellent article tying the whole ortion debate

1052
00:59:02.360 --> 00:59:07.039
<v Speaker 3>to the slavery debate. We and there he is. We

1053
00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:08.079
<v Speaker 3>lost Steve for a moment.

1054
00:59:08.119 --> 00:59:10.679
<v Speaker 2>And the second one, I'm back, sorry, so I don't worry.

1055
00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:15.639
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, I just had lost the whole the slavery debate

1056
00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:18.719
<v Speaker 3>to the abortion debate and and the parallels were uncanny,

1057
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:21.480
<v Speaker 3>and that was really formative for me at the time.

1058
00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:25.920
<v Speaker 3>And then the second one was was this long expose

1059
00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:31.960
<v Speaker 3>about AIDS and how this whole thing about AIDS being

1060
00:59:32.119 --> 00:59:36.320
<v Speaker 3>a virus was again a massive sigh op. I'm not

1061
00:59:36.320 --> 00:59:39.159
<v Speaker 3>going to go into all the details, but basically the

1062
00:59:39.320 --> 00:59:42.960
<v Speaker 3>argument was is that the the at the time, the

1063
00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:48.159
<v Speaker 3>homosexual lifestyle that was, you know, promulgating the the spread

1064
00:59:48.199 --> 00:59:53.079
<v Speaker 3>of AIDS was kind of just so I can't I

1065
00:59:53.119 --> 00:59:54.840
<v Speaker 3>can't do it. I did it. This is still a

1066
00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:57.320
<v Speaker 3>family show, but that it was that and not in

1067
00:59:57.360 --> 01:00:01.079
<v Speaker 3>fact any silly virus that was the AIDS. But that

1068
01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:03.320
<v Speaker 3>was why it was so important for them to pretend

1069
01:00:03.320 --> 01:00:05.239
<v Speaker 3>that it was a virus, so it was no longer

1070
01:00:05.960 --> 01:00:10.840
<v Speaker 3>tied to the behavior of homosexuals and bath houses and

1071
01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:12.960
<v Speaker 3>things like that. Anyway, both of those things. That was

1072
01:00:13.320 --> 01:00:17.800
<v Speaker 3>forty years ago, and I still remember those two articles

1073
01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:20.079
<v Speaker 3>because they made quite an impression on me. Now, would

1074
01:00:20.079 --> 01:00:22.360
<v Speaker 3>you like to tell us about David Horowitz in your

1075
01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:22.920
<v Speaker 3>Red Shirt?

1076
01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:28.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, right, I mean, David Horowitz had been ill for

1077
01:00:28.239 --> 01:00:30.880
<v Speaker 2>quite a long time. He was ill when I saw

1078
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:35.320
<v Speaker 2>him last nine years ago in person. But look I

1079
01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:37.400
<v Speaker 2>think a lot of it we said about him. One

1080
01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:41.239
<v Speaker 2>is he had a central insight that a lot of

1081
01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:45.360
<v Speaker 2>conservatives still don't appreciate, even in the age of Trump.

1082
01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:49.400
<v Speaker 2>He liked to say, the issue is never the issue.

1083
01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:53.639
<v Speaker 2>The issue for the left is revolution. This gets back

1084
01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:56.119
<v Speaker 2>to the conversation we had the last couple of weeks

1085
01:00:56.159 --> 01:01:00.079
<v Speaker 2>about whether we should embrace Gromskyism or not. Right. He

1086
01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:04.039
<v Speaker 2>understood that the left is about power to impose their agenda.

1087
01:01:04.199 --> 01:01:06.800
<v Speaker 2>We are not going to beat the left with genteel

1088
01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:10.159
<v Speaker 2>arguments about Edmund Burg or Leo Strauss or anybody else.

1089
01:01:10.360 --> 01:01:13.519
<v Speaker 2>He was never hostile to any of those camps. He

1090
01:01:13.599 --> 01:01:15.679
<v Speaker 2>understood and agreed with all of them. But he said,

1091
01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:18.880
<v Speaker 2>you don't get that this is a street fight, and

1092
01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:20.840
<v Speaker 2>what's the on line. You don't bring a knife to

1093
01:01:20.880 --> 01:01:25.920
<v Speaker 2>a gunfight. And look, that's why, very early on he

1094
01:01:26.199 --> 01:01:29.199
<v Speaker 2>loved Trump. And the last time I saw him in person,

1095
01:01:29.239 --> 01:01:31.840
<v Speaker 2>which I think was June of twenty sixteen, so sort

1096
01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:34.199
<v Speaker 2>of in the middle of the original Trump story, and

1097
01:01:34.239 --> 01:01:36.599
<v Speaker 2>he said, I don't understand why anybody doesn't get why

1098
01:01:36.639 --> 01:01:39.800
<v Speaker 2>we should get one hundred percent behind Trump because he

1099
01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:43.920
<v Speaker 2>will contest the left whatever his imperfections may be. I'll

1100
01:01:43.960 --> 01:01:46.880
<v Speaker 2>just say that. I mean, I think it's a fun story.

1101
01:01:47.320 --> 01:01:50.000
<v Speaker 2>I first met him way back in nineteen eighty eight,

1102
01:01:50.079 --> 01:01:51.719
<v Speaker 2>and I already knew who he was because I'd read

1103
01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:54.360
<v Speaker 2>the Left East for Reagan article in nineteen eighty five.

1104
01:01:54.400 --> 01:01:57.119
<v Speaker 2>That was a big sensation. And I got a phone

1105
01:01:57.119 --> 01:02:00.159
<v Speaker 2>call one day at the Claremont Institute from a guy

1106
01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:04.280
<v Speaker 2>named Spud Malin. Listeners may not know that name, but

1107
01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:07.840
<v Speaker 2>they deserve to know about Spud Malin. Spud Malin founded Whammo.

1108
01:02:08.440 --> 01:02:12.280
<v Speaker 2>He created the Hulu hoop, Crazer Wow, and the Frisbee

1109
01:02:12.400 --> 01:02:16.559
<v Speaker 2>and the Waterway slip and slide Wammo. He was Wammo,

1110
01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:19.400
<v Speaker 2>and he was kind of whack. He was kind of wacko.

1111
01:02:19.559 --> 01:02:21.880
<v Speaker 2>He was a conservative, he gave He was a big

1112
01:02:21.880 --> 01:02:25.519
<v Speaker 2>supporter of the Claremont Institute and the Heritage Foundation. Really wow.

1113
01:02:25.800 --> 01:02:27.840
<v Speaker 2>He used to call me up a lot. I was

1114
01:02:27.880 --> 01:02:29.679
<v Speaker 2>still my twenties at a graduate Dude. He called me

1115
01:02:29.760 --> 01:02:33.119
<v Speaker 2>up and said, I have this crazy idea, and I'd say,

1116
01:02:33.199 --> 01:02:35.599
<v Speaker 2>Spud that to do something political. I said, that is

1117
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:37.519
<v Speaker 2>a crazy idea. But how do you tell a guy

1118
01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:40.719
<v Speaker 2>who created the hula hoop that he has a crazy idea.

1119
01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:44.599
<v Speaker 2>I sort of learned some epistemological modesty listening to him.

1120
01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:46.719
<v Speaker 2>But he called me up one day and said, I

1121
01:02:46.760 --> 01:02:49.360
<v Speaker 2>think it was funny how you remember months It was

1122
01:02:49.400 --> 01:02:52.599
<v Speaker 2>like it was June of nineteen eighty eight. He said, Steve,

1123
01:02:52.639 --> 01:02:55.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm having David Horwitz over to my house Saturday morning.

1124
01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:57.360
<v Speaker 2>You want to come meet him, and we're going to

1125
01:02:57.400 --> 01:02:59.480
<v Speaker 2>talk about stuff. So yeah, great, I'd love to meet

1126
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:03.480
<v Speaker 2>this guy. And I go down there and I'll skip

1127
01:03:03.480 --> 01:03:06.119
<v Speaker 2>a lot of details, but Lloyd Billingsley was there. That's

1128
01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:08.719
<v Speaker 2>the first time I met him, now a regular contributor

1129
01:03:08.719 --> 01:03:12.840
<v Speaker 2>to the Political Question substack. And then David calls me

1130
01:03:12.920 --> 01:03:14.440
<v Speaker 2>up a couple of weeks later. He says, Hey, I'm

1131
01:03:14.440 --> 01:03:16.639
<v Speaker 2>having a fourth to July party at my house. And

1132
01:03:17.239 --> 01:03:20.320
<v Speaker 2>he had a fabulous house in Los Felees there in

1133
01:03:20.519 --> 01:03:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Los Angeles, right below the Hollywood Sign where my grandfather,

1134
01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:28.119
<v Speaker 2>my father grew up, my grandfather lived, Okay, And you know,

1135
01:03:28.519 --> 01:03:31.880
<v Speaker 2>David was like that. He was a great networker, and

1136
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:34.320
<v Speaker 2>the point was his central point was always and I

1137
01:03:34.360 --> 01:03:37.719
<v Speaker 2>reiterate this, so you know, our friends at the Commentary podcast,

1138
01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:40.199
<v Speaker 2>to make a brief digression, they talk about the left

1139
01:03:40.239 --> 01:03:44.039
<v Speaker 2>always has what they call the Omni cause, and you know,

1140
01:03:44.119 --> 01:03:46.679
<v Speaker 2>everything links together for the left. Whatever the cause is,

1141
01:03:46.719 --> 01:03:48.360
<v Speaker 2>they're going to get behind it, whether it's you know,

1142
01:03:48.440 --> 01:03:51.119
<v Speaker 2>Israel and Palestine, whatever. And I said, yeah, that's what

1143
01:03:51.239 --> 01:03:54.159
<v Speaker 2>David Horowitz has been saying for forty years now. The

1144
01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:56.480
<v Speaker 2>issue is not the issue. The issue is the left's

1145
01:03:56.519 --> 01:03:59.480
<v Speaker 2>drive for power, and the only way to defeat them

1146
01:03:59.639 --> 01:04:03.239
<v Speaker 2>is to thump them back equally. And that's what Trump

1147
01:04:03.320 --> 01:04:09.000
<v Speaker 2>is doing in a way that the genteel conservative Republicans

1148
01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:11.400
<v Speaker 2>have never figured out. By the way, I'll mention this,

1149
01:04:11.400 --> 01:04:13.719
<v Speaker 2>it was a late nineties when suddenly everybody turned on

1150
01:04:13.800 --> 01:04:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Nut Gingridge because he'd made some mistakes and all the

1151
01:04:15.800 --> 01:04:18.440
<v Speaker 2>rest of that, and David would hear none of it.

1152
01:04:18.519 --> 01:04:21.719
<v Speaker 2>He said, Nut Gingrich is the only guy taking the

1153
01:04:21.719 --> 01:04:23.719
<v Speaker 2>fight to the left, and I don't care what mistakes

1154
01:04:23.719 --> 01:04:26.119
<v Speaker 2>he's made. You guys need to figure it out and

1155
01:04:26.280 --> 01:04:29.239
<v Speaker 2>learn how to fight the way he does. So I'm

1156
01:04:29.239 --> 01:04:32.440
<v Speaker 2>gonna miss him. I could say more about how he

1157
01:04:32.480 --> 01:04:35.519
<v Speaker 2>was a serious Marxist. A lot of the obituaries have

1158
01:04:35.639 --> 01:04:38.239
<v Speaker 2>not really gotten into the fact that he was not

1159
01:04:38.360 --> 01:04:42.360
<v Speaker 2>some parlor hippie Marxist. He went to England and studied

1160
01:04:42.400 --> 01:04:45.079
<v Speaker 2>with Isaac Deutscher, a forgotten figure now, but a person

1161
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:48.400
<v Speaker 2>on par with Gramsky. And you know, David really knew

1162
01:04:48.400 --> 01:04:51.360
<v Speaker 2>that stuff, and so when he turned on it, he

1163
01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:54.519
<v Speaker 2>had all the receipts. And that's all I happened.

1164
01:04:54.559 --> 01:04:58.719
<v Speaker 1>I can say. I thought Radical Son was a great book.

1165
01:04:58.719 --> 01:05:02.679
<v Speaker 1>I remember reading it, yes, yeah, very And he David

1166
01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:05.840
<v Speaker 1>invited me to some of his conferences, and I often

1167
01:05:05.840 --> 01:05:08.679
<v Speaker 1>would come and talk about the judiciary. David was I

1168
01:05:08.679 --> 01:05:11.519
<v Speaker 1>think a person who thought early on that the judiciary

1169
01:05:11.519 --> 01:05:15.599
<v Speaker 1>had been captured by you know, left wing progressive ideology.

1170
01:05:16.079 --> 01:05:18.079
<v Speaker 1>And then the other interesting thing is, you know there's

1171
01:05:18.119 --> 01:05:21.719
<v Speaker 1>this big tech loave firm called Andreson Horowitz, and that

1172
01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:26.159
<v Speaker 1>Horowitz is David's son. And yeah, and many people I've

1173
01:05:26.159 --> 01:05:30.639
<v Speaker 1>read accounts where they attribute some of the tech bros

1174
01:05:30.760 --> 01:05:34.000
<v Speaker 1>world coming behind Trump, winding up behind Trump this last

1175
01:05:34.400 --> 01:05:37.800
<v Speaker 1>last election because of that, the younger Horwitz, who of

1176
01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:42.039
<v Speaker 1>course was influenced by the elder Horwitz. So David, you know,

1177
01:05:42.199 --> 01:05:44.679
<v Speaker 1>had an impact not just on thought, but maybe in

1178
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:48.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, political you know, in the trench warfare too

1179
01:05:48.519 --> 01:05:49.400
<v Speaker 1>in the last election.

1180
01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:56.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So okay, okay, rad Or solemn Lucatia. Sorry, go

1181
01:05:56.079 --> 01:05:57.719
<v Speaker 2>ahead and do your babylon So I'm going to.

1182
01:05:57.719 --> 01:06:00.519
<v Speaker 3>Be I'm gonna be solemn with the Babylon bee because

1183
01:06:00.519 --> 01:06:07.199
<v Speaker 3>some of those are actually solemn. Democrats hold candlelight vigil

1184
01:06:07.320 --> 01:06:10.920
<v Speaker 3>in front of illegal immigrant mugshots on the White House lawn.

1185
01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:16.320
<v Speaker 3>You get it. No, look at John's looking confused, they

1186
01:06:16.320 --> 01:06:20.880
<v Speaker 3>put well. So it was another one of those Trump

1187
01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:25.199
<v Speaker 3>moments where he lined the White House lawn with posters,

1188
01:06:25.239 --> 01:06:28.719
<v Speaker 3>you know, pretty good sized posters of all the illegal

1189
01:06:28.760 --> 01:06:31.599
<v Speaker 3>immigrants that they were deporting in the crimes that they

1190
01:06:31.639 --> 01:06:34.400
<v Speaker 3>had committed, their pictures and the crimes they had committed.

1191
01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:39.920
<v Speaker 3>So that when Democrats went out to protest this or

1192
01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:43.039
<v Speaker 3>when the you know, the media went out to cover it,

1193
01:06:43.119 --> 01:06:45.360
<v Speaker 3>of course, all they're doing is showing the pictures of

1194
01:06:45.440 --> 01:06:50.000
<v Speaker 3>these murderous, sex, trafficking, et cetera thug. So it was

1195
01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:53.280
<v Speaker 3>it was another clever Trump moment, a little bit crasp,

1196
01:06:53.320 --> 01:06:55.880
<v Speaker 3>but nevertheless this one is one of my favorite. In

1197
01:06:55.880 --> 01:06:59.920
<v Speaker 3>the picture of courses of kat and g support rows

1198
01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:08.320
<v Speaker 3>for requiring Supreme Court justices to pass cognitive tests. Global

1199
01:07:08.320 --> 01:07:13.159
<v Speaker 3>birth rates hit historic lows, as Elon Musk busy with

1200
01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:16.880
<v Speaker 3>Doge have thirteen?

1201
01:07:17.960 --> 01:07:20.519
<v Speaker 2>Who knows? Right, Well, you did have a tweet. You

1202
01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:22.639
<v Speaker 2>did have a tweet saying don't have to do everything?

1203
01:07:23.199 --> 01:07:27.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, forgotten. This one's for you, Steve your promises

1204
01:07:27.840 --> 01:07:31.840
<v Speaker 3>to get the electricity back up asap so everyone can

1205
01:07:31.880 --> 01:07:36.880
<v Speaker 3>hear the Muslim calls to prayer. It's not either.

1206
01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1207
01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:47.119
<v Speaker 3>Well, Joe Biden arrested for harboring eleven million illegal aliens.

1208
01:07:47.800 --> 01:07:51.280
<v Speaker 3>Don't we wish just a couple more because I know

1209
01:07:51.559 --> 01:07:57.239
<v Speaker 3>we're really really over time. Harvard awards honorary degree to

1210
01:07:57.400 --> 01:08:02.679
<v Speaker 3>man who firebombed to Governor Shapiro's house. Yeah, well, this

1211
01:08:03.239 --> 01:08:07.079
<v Speaker 3>one's depressing. Women shocked to learn pill designed to murder

1212
01:08:07.159 --> 01:08:10.079
<v Speaker 3>babies might not be safe.

1213
01:08:10.440 --> 01:08:11.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know it's.

1214
01:08:11.719 --> 01:08:14.639
<v Speaker 3>Not funny, but I'll end with just a couple more.

1215
01:08:15.679 --> 01:08:19.680
<v Speaker 3>What's his name? Bad timing kilmar Orbrego Garcia honored with

1216
01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:23.399
<v Speaker 3>MS thirteen Employee of the Month award, just when they

1217
01:08:23.399 --> 01:08:27.800
<v Speaker 3>were saying he wasn't really a gang banger. And then finally,

1218
01:08:28.079 --> 01:08:32.039
<v Speaker 3>Venezuela thanks the US Supreme Court for keeping dangerous criminals

1219
01:08:32.039 --> 01:08:38.520
<v Speaker 3>out of their country. Okay, you could laugh, Johnson laughing.

1220
01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:40.159
<v Speaker 2>Well that's true.

1221
01:08:40.279 --> 01:08:43.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know, Okay, yeah, you're more true than funny.

1222
01:08:43.920 --> 01:08:46.840
<v Speaker 1>I always drink your whisky, Neat, always drink your whiskey.

1223
01:08:46.880 --> 01:08:47.640
<v Speaker 1>Meat and Steve.

1224
01:08:48.680 --> 01:08:52.720
<v Speaker 2>Okay, here's this makes couplet the three Whiskey Happy Hour,

1225
01:08:52.880 --> 01:08:57.600
<v Speaker 2>where shadows bloom, a dance on the edge of joy

1226
01:08:57.640 --> 01:09:02.880
<v Speaker 2>and gloom. Raise the glass once twice fate will cower

1227
01:09:03.640 --> 01:09:07.319
<v Speaker 2>under the spell of the three Whiskey Happy Hour. Bye bye,

1228
01:09:07.359 --> 01:09:08.600
<v Speaker 2>everybody can see you next week.

1229
01:09:09.760 --> 01:09:23.239
<v Speaker 5>Bye. So you worship Anson's proved by your device, and

1230
01:09:23.399 --> 01:09:28.760
<v Speaker 5>I had your arrange for you to time to decide.

1231
01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:31.359
<v Speaker 3>So smile for me like you.

1232
01:09:31.399 --> 01:09:34.000
<v Speaker 5>Smile for everyone else.

1233
01:09:36.199 --> 01:09:37.600
<v Speaker 3>NI gets easy with.

1234
01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:51.560
<v Speaker 5>Beliefs that you've never help got your range, I've got

1235
01:09:51.640 --> 01:09:52.760
<v Speaker 5>your ricochet.

1236
01:09:54.439 --> 01:09:55.399
<v Speaker 1>Join the conversation.
