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Speaker 2: Radio you are now listening to True Murder, The most
Speaker 2: shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that
Speaker 2: have written about them.
Speaker 4: Gasey, Bundy, Stahmer, The Nightstalker, DTK.
Speaker 2: Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking
Speaker 2: and infamous killers in true crime history.
Speaker 4: True Murder with your host, journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 4: Good Evening, s Town meets I'll Be Gone in the
Speaker 4: Dark in this stranger than fiction cold case from rural
Speaker 4: Oklahoma that has stumped authorities for two decades concerning the
Speaker 4: disappearance of two teenage girls and the much larger mystery
Speaker 4: of murder, possible police cover up, and an unimaginable truth.
Speaker 4: On December thirtieth, nineteen ninety nine, in rural Oklahoma, sixteen
Speaker 4: year old Ashley Freeman and her best friend Lauria Bible
Speaker 4: were having a sleepover. The next morning, the Freeman family
Speaker 4: trailer was in flames and both girls were missing. While
Speaker 4: rumors of drug debts, revenge, and police corruption abounded. In
Speaker 4: the years that followed, the case remained unsolved and the
Speaker 4: girls were never found. In twenty fifteen, crime writer Jax Miller,
Speaker 4: who had been haunted by the case, decided to travel
Speaker 4: to Oklahoma to find out what really happened on that
Speaker 4: winter night in nineteen ninety nine and why the story
Speaker 4: was still simmering more than fifteen years later. What she
Speaker 4: found was more than she could have ever bargained for.
Speaker 4: Evidence of jaw dropping levels of police negligence, entire communities
Speaker 4: ravaged by methanphetamine addiction, and a series of interconnected murders
Speaker 4: with an ominously familiar pattern. These forgotten towns were wild, lawless,
Speaker 4: and home to some very dark secrets. The book that
Speaker 4: we're featuring this evening is Hell in the Heartland, Murder,
Speaker 4: meth and the Case of Two Missing Girls, with my
Speaker 4: special guest journalist, author, TV producer. Thank you so much
Speaker 4: for joining us on the program today discuss your remarkable
Speaker 4: new book. Welcome to the program, jash No.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks so much. I really appreciate this.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for joining us right away. Let's
Speaker 4: talk about what brought you to the case of Ashley
Speaker 4: Freeman and Laura Bible. How did you come to being.
Speaker 3: I never have a good answer for that. I I
Speaker 3: can't remember where I first heard the story, but in
Speaker 3: twenty fifteen I made the choice to move from fiction
Speaker 3: to nonfiction. And I remember this case. I did a
Speaker 3: Google sir, something like you know, best Friends, Trailer Fire, Prairie,
Speaker 3: and you know, I wanted to see if anything had
Speaker 3: happened with this story. And lo and behold. You know,
Speaker 3: at that time they were actually looking for the remains
Speaker 3: of the girls in the well of the convicted murderer.
Speaker 3: And I says, wow, this is still so active fifteen
Speaker 3: years later. You know, this is what I want to do.
Speaker 3: So I called Laura Bible's mother, Larene Bible, and I says, hey,
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about writing a book. And here we are,
Speaker 3: you know, all this time later in the book's coming
Speaker 3: out tomorrow.
Speaker 4: It's kind of surreal, absolutely, and there's so much going
Speaker 4: on as well, because as you there's a Kansas man,
Speaker 4: please guilty. Just July fifteenth. This was in the newspapers
Speaker 4: twenty twenty in Veneta, Oklahoma. And we'll get to that.
Speaker 4: We'll get to that incredible development in this story, and
Speaker 4: incredibly in this case. Let's talk about the particulars. Let's
Speaker 4: talk about all of the incredible and horrible particulars of
Speaker 4: these heinous murders and their discovery. So take us back
Speaker 4: to December twenty eighth, nineteen, So tell us take us back.
Speaker 3: So it was actually the morning of December thirtieth, and
Speaker 3: there was a trailer and this is real tucked and
Speaker 3: this is real rural, and there's a trailer home they
Speaker 3: found on fire. Inside they found the body of thirty
Speaker 3: eight year old Kathy Freeman, her burnt body. She was
Speaker 3: shot to death prior to the fire being started. So
Speaker 3: it was first assume that her husband, Danny Freeman, had
Speaker 3: killed her and then had taken their sixteen year old daughter,
Speaker 3: Ashley Freeman, and as she's best friend Laura Bible, who
Speaker 3: was sleeping over the ninth before it was assumed that
Speaker 3: he had killed his wife, taken the girls and left.
Speaker 3: Soon after, a tip came in to police saying, you know,
Speaker 3: Danny has the girls. He's not going to give them
Speaker 3: back until cops hand over the officer who shot his
Speaker 3: son less than one year prior. So that was the
Speaker 3: prominent theory of those first twenty four hours. The next day,
Speaker 3: at daybreak, the family of the friend Laura Bible, who
Speaker 3: was sleeping over, they go to look for clues. They
Speaker 3: go back to the crime scene. There's no one there.
Speaker 3: The cops are gone. This scene was released the evening before,
Speaker 3: and within moments of arriving, they find a second body
Speaker 3: that police failed to find, and that was their prime suspect,
Speaker 3: Danny Freeman. So now you have these two dead parents
Speaker 3: and these girls are missing ever since, they've never been found,
Speaker 3: and that's the basis of this of Hell and the
Speaker 3: Harland for the most part.
Speaker 4: Now, when you arrive from Ireland and you you come
Speaker 4: to this little place in Oklahoma and you meet Loreene Bible,
Speaker 4: what is the first thing that you deduce from this
Speaker 4: and and her spirit and her character, what are the
Speaker 4: first things that you recognize?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think I think coming into it, I
Speaker 3: was kind of expecting that grieving mother who you know,
Speaker 3: wails and you know, plunches her fists at the heavens
Speaker 3: type of woman. And she's anything, but she's a very
Speaker 3: reserved woman. Something that that that took a lot of
Speaker 3: getting used to coming from Ireland to Oklahoma was that
Speaker 3: Midwestern stoicism that you see so often around here. Just
Speaker 3: very still, very reserved and composed. So that took a
Speaker 3: lot in getting used to. But there's a power in that,
Speaker 3: there really is, because she's very forward thinking. She she
Speaker 3: doesn't get caught up in the emotion. She doesn't get
Speaker 3: caught up in the theories in that hypotheses. Her immediate
Speaker 3: response is always what do I have to do next?
Speaker 3: What do I have to do next? And she's just
Speaker 3: always moving forward. And I was very impressed by that.
Speaker 3: I think she's a fascinating woman. I think she's a
Speaker 3: powerful woman. I think she's the strongest woman I've ever met.
Speaker 3: And you know, I think we could all learn something
Speaker 3: from people like Loreene. I think she's just amazing.
Speaker 4: Now, you talked about the tip that police got that
Speaker 4: they immediately assumed that Danny Freeman was the culprit in
Speaker 4: this murder in Arson, But you say that Loreen immediately
Speaker 4: and her husband were the people that took upon themselves
Speaker 4: to make the search for their daughter and inextrictly became
Speaker 4: involved in this case to the point where they discover
Speaker 4: that Danny Freeman's in the fire as well. Now, tell
Speaker 4: us about because this book is obviously and Loraine is
Speaker 4: highly critical of the police reaction initially and beyond initially,
Speaker 4: So tell us how this could have possibly happened, this
Speaker 4: oversight and some of the things that you describe in
Speaker 4: the book about this investigation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think that's the big question. How
Speaker 3: does two parents, you know, and these are nice people,
Speaker 3: wholesome people, how do they find this body? And it's
Speaker 3: not a pretty scene. He's burnt to death, his head's
Speaker 3: been shot off. If you ask Loreene Bible, she'll tell
Speaker 3: you it looks like hamburger meat. This was a gory,
Speaker 3: horrible thing to stumble upon. And your daughter is missing.
Speaker 3: I mean, under these circumstances, how can you even fathom
Speaker 3: that people like you and I were not meant to
Speaker 3: fathom stuff like this. No one is. And the big
Speaker 3: question is how the hell did police miss this? And
Speaker 3: that was the question that kept ringing. So from then on,
Speaker 3: Loreen and Jay as soon as they found Danny Freeman,
Speaker 3: they says, no, we're not giving the scene back to them.
Speaker 3: They released it to the family. It's ours now. And
Speaker 3: it was Loreene and Jay and Danny Freeman's step brother
Speaker 3: Dwayne Vansell also who they've released seem to they were
Speaker 3: the ones who really led this, and they had volunteers,
Speaker 3: you know, And that's a great thing about living in
Speaker 3: a small community, you know, they had like in the
Speaker 3: first few days, they head up to five hundred volunteers,
Speaker 3: people looking on horseback and the bibles were conducting the
Speaker 3: grid searches. You know, there's even a part. A lot
Speaker 3: of people don't know this, but they were putting down
Speaker 3: their own evidence markers while agents from the state sat
Speaker 3: on the sides, and then they would put the evidence
Speaker 3: markers down and then they would call back to the
Speaker 3: agents to come collect it. And it was just one
Speaker 3: mishap after another after another after another, and it's like,
Speaker 3: at what point, you know, does somebody do something? And
Speaker 3: Loreen and Jay just did everything themselves. God bless them,
Speaker 3: and Dwayne Bansel too with that investigation those first few days.
Speaker 3: They did everything they could and they had a lot
Speaker 3: working against them, like the agent did not enter the
Speaker 3: girls into the nci SEE like.
Speaker 4: He should have.
Speaker 3: There was no arson investigation. And it's one of them
Speaker 3: stories over the years, reports go missing, this never happened,
Speaker 3: this person dead, you know, it's it's a very frustrating
Speaker 3: case in that sense.
Speaker 4: We talked about the tip to police. Police must have
Speaker 4: investigated that because it was it was a dangerous misinformation.
Speaker 4: Bit of it misinformation. So what about that tip to police?
Speaker 4: What do they find about that tip?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'll just preface by saying that the
Speaker 3: sheriff's office did not investigate. As soon as they got there,
Speaker 3: they put their hands up and says, we have too
Speaker 3: much bad blood with this family. We need to surrender
Speaker 3: this to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation. So for
Speaker 3: the first few hours, as this house is burning and
Speaker 3: they're putting out the fire, the Sheriff's office is sitting there.
Speaker 3: Even after the fire's out, they don't go inside. They
Speaker 3: don't do investigate, They don't search for the girls. They
Speaker 3: just wait. And even Loreen Bible and Duane and everyone
Speaker 3: else is like, what the you know, what are you doing?
Speaker 3: Do something? And they didn't. Now this all said, the
Speaker 3: reason that they put their hands up and surrender this
Speaker 3: over was because less than a year prior, in early
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine, January eighth, nineteen ninety nine, Kathy and
Speaker 3: Danny Freeman's seventeen year old son, Shane Freeman, was killed
Speaker 3: by a local sheriff's deputy. The family thought that they
Speaker 3: might have a case of a wrongful death suit. They
Speaker 3: were going to file a wrongful death suit against the county.
Speaker 3: They had one year to do so, or well, what
Speaker 3: they believed that they had one year to do so,
Speaker 3: and one week shy of that one year window closing,
Speaker 3: they were murdered. So a lot of this, you know,
Speaker 3: Shane Freeman is bought in a lot. I talk a
Speaker 3: lot about Shane Freeman in the book. And yeah, so
Speaker 3: so that was a tip was that Danny was going
Speaker 3: to kidnap the girls and he wasn't giving them back
Speaker 3: until police handed over Deputy David Hayes, who's the cop
Speaker 3: who shot his son, and he I think he was
Speaker 3: expecting a shootout. I think that's how the tip said.
Speaker 3: It was that there was going to be a shootout,
Speaker 3: like come and get me, come and get the girls
Speaker 3: and give me him. And of course we now know,
Speaker 3: you know, upon the Bible's finding Danny Freeman, that that
Speaker 3: tip was false.
Speaker 4: You also have not to backtrack so much. But this
Speaker 4: is just so dramatic and disturbing is that when the
Speaker 4: initial Troy Reussick comes to see Messick, it finds out
Speaker 4: about the fire and wants to notify Loreen. How does
Speaker 4: he go about that? Just to start off this whole
Speaker 4: nightmare for her.
Speaker 3: So that morning she was working at McDonald's. Loreene was
Speaker 3: and at first she had a call from her son, Bred,
Speaker 3: that older brother, and he said something like, Mom, you
Speaker 3: know there's a fire out in Welch because his girlfriend
Speaker 3: lived in Welsh at the time, you know, and at
Speaker 3: first nobody really thought that much of it. I think
Speaker 3: everyone kind of imagined a small kitchen fire. Nobody knew
Speaker 3: it was as severe as it was. So she hung
Speaker 3: up the phone with Brad and moments later, you know,
Speaker 3: Deputy Messic comes in and he says, Loreene, we got
Speaker 3: to talk. And she'll tell you, like I knew from
Speaker 3: his face it was it was serious, you know, that
Speaker 3: the place had burnt down. From there, she actually relayed
Speaker 3: information to Messick who there, who then related it to
Speaker 3: the authorities back on the scene where the you know,
Speaker 3: what the layout of the trailer was. So it's like,
Speaker 3: according to Loreene, Danny's room is here, Ashley's room is here,
Speaker 3: Shane's room was here, you know. And she's actually from McDonald's, uh,
Speaker 3: you know, giving them the layout of the land, the
Speaker 3: layer of the land out there. So and then she
Speaker 3: and and and then she called Jay. She she called
Speaker 3: her husband Jay, uh, and then Jay picked her up
Speaker 3: and then together they went to the crime scene.
Speaker 4: Now when we talk about the search, this extensive search
Speaker 4: with the five hundred volunteers. How did they endeavor to
Speaker 4: conduct this search? What did they have any start for
Speaker 4: that search? Did they have any leads to direct them
Speaker 4: in this search?
Speaker 3: So the five hundred people wasn't until about day three,
Speaker 3: I believe at first. You know, it's a very small town.
Speaker 3: Word travels very quickly, so people came, you know, wanting
Speaker 3: to know what's up, and a lot of them came
Speaker 3: like just like with that nosy sense, like you know, hey,
Speaker 3: what's going on. People listen to their police scanners out there.
Speaker 3: That's a very common thing. You'll see even the funeral
Speaker 3: plartilests that a pretent and started handing out drinks and
Speaker 3: sandwiches to people. And people were letting their kids run
Speaker 3: around the crime scene like babies, babies, you know, in diapers.
Speaker 3: It was a really it was a circus. And all
Speaker 3: the while, on that second day, you have twenty five
Speaker 3: agents just standing on the sidelines and Lorene like, don't
Speaker 3: you come near this, You stay put, and they did.
Speaker 3: And I understand where Loreene came from. I feel I
Speaker 3: totally feel for her why she would do that because
Speaker 3: they failed to find Danny the day before. But I
Speaker 3: also don't understand why agents let her, Why they didn't,
Speaker 3: you know, try and investigate this properly. And it wasn't
Speaker 3: just finding Danny's body. There was you know, the elite agent.
Speaker 3: He hadn't you know, entered the girls into the NCIIC.
Speaker 3: Loreen did that herself. They weren't planning searches that second
Speaker 3: or third day. J Bible, the father of Laura Bible,
Speaker 3: he called the radio station and and and and appealed
Speaker 3: for volunteers, and that's how most of them came the
Speaker 3: next day. And what they did was they they formed
Speaker 3: an assembly line down the driveway and they all came
Speaker 3: with these handmade sifters and they went through one clump
Speaker 3: of ash at the time looking for bones. That's that's
Speaker 3: pretty much what they did, like the whole time, until
Speaker 3: every inch was covered and there was no sign of
Speaker 3: the girls. No nobody believed the girls were in that fire. Wow.
Speaker 4: Now you talked about this bad blood and that's because
Speaker 4: over the this shooting and the Sheriff's department being involved.
Speaker 4: But is there more to is there more to them
Speaker 4: not investigating like you describe them sitting around, Loreene comes
Speaker 4: to this scene. They have to have the medical examiner
Speaker 4: come so they they're sitting down. So is there a
Speaker 4: sense of callousness or indifference because of that bad blood
Speaker 4: and because of the character behind some of these people
Speaker 4: in the police mind? Is there that kind of feel
Speaker 4: to this thing?
Speaker 3: I mean, I think this whole story begs the question
Speaker 3: was this incompetence or was this corruption? You know, I
Speaker 3: do talk about it because there was a history with
Speaker 3: with the Sheriff's office corruption. It wasn't new, unfortunately, And
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that they were all bad by any means. Personally,
Speaker 3: I think there was one bad one. I have his
Speaker 3: colleagues on record saying he sold meth out of the
Speaker 3: trunk of his car. And he was one who was
Speaker 3: primarily doing the harassment against Danny Freeman. And we have this,
Speaker 3: you know, we have this documented where the police went
Speaker 3: back and forth and it was like shining spotlights in
Speaker 3: the Freeman home in the middle of the night, following
Speaker 3: Ashley off the school bus, like they were very you know,
Speaker 3: just harassing, and it was mostly this one character he's
Speaker 3: dead now, And Danny was the same way. I mean,
Speaker 3: he was stalking the cop who shot his son. Whether
Speaker 3: or not that was a justifiable shooting, that's that's still
Speaker 3: another question, another story, if you will. But I mean,
Speaker 3: it was a tit for tat for that whole year,
Speaker 3: you know. And you have to remember small towns, you know,
Speaker 3: most of these people know one another anyway outside the badge.
Speaker 3: They've known each other for years. And whether or not
Speaker 3: it was a callousness, whether or not they knew Danny
Speaker 3: was there and just decided to ignore him and hope
Speaker 3: nobody else notice, you know, all these things. If it
Speaker 3: was a callousness or not, I don't know. I think
Speaker 3: it's up for readers to decide, you know, what you think.
Speaker 3: Because even in talking to the families, you know, the
Speaker 3: Bibles don't dwell so much on the corruption side of
Speaker 3: law enforcement because they believe that that will take it
Speaker 3: the focus away from the girls. Whereas the freemens are
Speaker 3: very vocal that they're going to go to their graves
Speaker 3: believing that the cops did this, and that the cops
Speaker 3: you know, had the men we now know are the
Speaker 3: suspects that they had them do it. So there is
Speaker 3: that great divide.
Speaker 4: Let's get back to this partnership, this friendship, this relationship,
Speaker 4: that you develop with Loreen. You're incredibly candid about how
Speaker 4: much how obsessed you were with this case and your
Speaker 4: original your first book there was a major success was
Speaker 4: Freedom's Child and the issues explored in there, your relationship
Speaker 4: with Loreen, they have something to do with each other,
Speaker 4: at least your book and your experiences, your personal experiences
Speaker 4: informed you and were present in this relationship. I believe
Speaker 4: from my reading, tell us a little bit about the
Speaker 4: relationship and what major things you learned in this relationship.
Speaker 3: You know, Loreene just threatened to throw a peach at
Speaker 3: my forehead yesterday, like we have. We have this loving relationship.
Speaker 3: I think. You know, it's not all serious. We don't
Speaker 3: sit there and dwell over the case. It's really not
Speaker 3: like that. It's and there are times for that, but no,
Speaker 3: it's grown, you know, separate from her case and her
Speaker 3: story and me going through this book. There was a
Speaker 3: lot that I went through emotionally. There were things, you know,
Speaker 3: outside this case, like my mother's passing and you know,
Speaker 3: stuff moving, stuff like this. I had my own you know, trials,
Speaker 3: and she was there for them. You know, there's something
Speaker 3: very motherly and very nurturing underneath that cold heart. Exterior,
Speaker 3: and she is I really think the world of her.
Speaker 3: I don't know she feels the same way for me,
Speaker 3: but I do think the world of her. I look
Speaker 3: up to her because I never met anyone like her
Speaker 3: and checking myself and checking my own heart and seeing
Speaker 3: the woman that I want to be. It's a lot
Speaker 3: more like Loreene. And I just I was struck by her.
Speaker 3: I was very struck by her. I don't know if
Speaker 3: you've ever seen interviews with her, She's a different breed if.
Speaker 4: You will, yes, Now, this is a for you undertake
Speaker 4: this And you had no idea as you write that
Speaker 4: this would be a four year investigation. You had did
Speaker 4: not plan, did not have these kinds of plans for
Speaker 4: this kind of extensive stay. What did you find in
Speaker 4: this investigation? And you write about your own experiences, serious
Speaker 4: experiences with drugs, but this community plagued by methanthetamine? Were
Speaker 4: you surprised? And how important was the methanphetamine to this
Speaker 4: story and this investigation?
Speaker 3: So so myth was a huge aspect to this story
Speaker 3: because it's such a huge it has such a huge
Speaker 3: impact on this community. There are parts of this area
Speaker 3: that have been devastated by poverty. If you look at
Speaker 3: Picture Oklahoma, which is where the girls were thoughts have
Speaker 3: been murdered, it's where the suspects lived at the time,
Speaker 3: and that's you know, it's not far from from Welch, Oklahoma.
Speaker 3: But Picture Oklahoma was a huge lead mining town that's collapsed.
Speaker 3: It's full of sinkholes and empty homes, and it were
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of I mean, there's no one
Speaker 3: there now, but back then it was making you know,
Speaker 3: it really lended towards the mess problem that you see
Speaker 3: in the area today. And for me, I'm a big
Speaker 3: believer that nothing bad should ever be gone in vain.
Speaker 3: I believe that the bad parts of the bad things
Speaker 3: that have happened, the bad choices we make, we can
Speaker 3: use them later on, you know, with that silver lining.
Speaker 3: And I'm very open about my past as a drug addict.
Speaker 3: I never did meth, but you know, I'm very open
Speaker 3: about my own struggles with addiction, and I think that
Speaker 3: that was a huge asset for me in this case. Actually,
Speaker 3: because I think a lot of people in the genre,
Speaker 3: whether or not they're a writer or journalist or even
Speaker 3: law enforcement, you know, just anyone who has to deal
Speaker 3: with victims and suspects. I think a lot of times
Speaker 3: they can be a little pretentious. They come in there
Speaker 3: with with, you know, their stiff suit and a notebook,
Speaker 3: and they're asking questions like like they're a little bit
Speaker 3: better than them, a little bit pretentious. And I'm not
Speaker 3: saying everyone, I've just I mean, I've just seen this before,
Speaker 3: and I really did not want to be that person.
Speaker 3: I really wanted to meet them wherever they were. And
Speaker 3: I remember in my own struggles with addiction, the person
Speaker 3: who really helped me was someone who met me where
Speaker 3: I was, you know what I'm saying. So that was
Speaker 3: important to me. So when I'm dealing with methadicts and
Speaker 3: I don't like the labels. First of all, I don't
Speaker 3: like the labels because I don't think that defines who
Speaker 3: you are as a person. It doesn't deply me, it
Speaker 3: doesn't apply them they. I mean, these people, you know,
Speaker 3: are someone's parent and child and sibling, and people forget.
Speaker 4: That, you know.
Speaker 3: I think it's easy for people to say, oh, they're
Speaker 3: just they're just junkies, you know, let them be. So
Speaker 3: I would meet them where they're at, and sometimes i'd
Speaker 3: sit with them while they got high. Sometimes I sat
Speaker 3: with them while they cried. Sometimes I sat with them,
Speaker 3: you know, and lit their cigarette. And other times we
Speaker 3: would just joke around and have a great meal. I mean,
Speaker 3: you meet them wherever they're at, because I think this
Speaker 3: business should require a foundation of trust. For me, that
Speaker 3: was ninety percent of the job was building that foundation
Speaker 3: of trust. And even now, like I send them Christmas cards,
Speaker 3: we talk. I mean, I'm just very friendly with some
Speaker 3: I just play it cool, I guess, And I don't
Speaker 3: know if that's dumb or not, but you know, I
Speaker 3: it's how I roll.
Speaker 4: I suppose right now, in this investigation, we have alluded
Speaker 4: to that this case has changed and there's this trial
Speaker 4: that's going to go on, and that needs to be
Speaker 4: explained as well. Because there's a trial. It's a plea agreement.
Speaker 4: So it's a fascinating development that has happened. But it
Speaker 4: didn't happen overnight. So tell us about the investigation, your
Speaker 4: investigation as well in Therenes and how you came to
Speaker 4: the discovery of it.
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Speaker 1: Begun as they're eating where I lost.
Speaker 4: The terms conditions eighteen pluss potential suspects in the first
Speaker 4: place and the eventual suspect that is now charged. But
Speaker 4: tell us about this investigation and the hunt for suspects
Speaker 4: in the first place.
Speaker 3: So when I first came to this story, their prime
Speaker 3: suspect was someone who had confessed maybe ten years prior.
Speaker 3: It was a man who's now on death row, an
Speaker 3: alleged serial killer named Jeremy Jones. And he was a
Speaker 3: suspect for a long time. And there was no one else.
Speaker 3: It was no other big leads. So the three men
Speaker 3: now that we now believe, you know, had killed the girls, right.
Speaker 3: We would hear their names once in a while, but
Speaker 3: they were, you know, they didn't raise huge red flags
Speaker 3: and a lot of these red flags came after the arrest.
Speaker 3: Then it was a lot of aha moments. So I'd
Speaker 3: heard these names, The family had heard these names, but
Speaker 3: they've also heard hundreds of other names, So you know,
Speaker 3: it's like, what do you do with it? You know,
Speaker 3: this is why you need investigators. So it was kind
Speaker 3: of like the perfect storm. As around the same time
Speaker 3: that I came to this story, there was the family
Speaker 3: created the Fine More Bible page on Facebook and that
Speaker 3: really opened the door for families to get a lot
Speaker 3: of new tips. Also, around the same time, there was
Speaker 3: a new team of investigators, and this was like the
Speaker 3: first time on an official level that this case was
Speaker 3: really being looked at, like really being investigated. And that's
Speaker 3: with the OSBI agent Tammy Ferrari and the DA's investigator
Speaker 3: Gary Stancil. So you kind of have this perfect storm
Speaker 3: and then it's like the floodgates opened really wide, and
Speaker 3: you know, people started talking about Ronnie Bussa, they started
Speaker 3: talking about David Pennington, and they started talking about Phil Welch.
Speaker 3: Welch and Pennington have died. It's believed that Phil Welch
Speaker 3: was kind of the ringleader in this to his family.
Speaker 3: Talking to people who knew him. He was quite a
Speaker 3: terrifying man, to say the least, and it sounds like
Speaker 3: he had the other two kind of under his spell.
Speaker 3: So we knew that the arrest was going to happen
Speaker 3: for some time. But then the Affidavid's released that same day,
Speaker 3: the twenty eighteen Affidavid, and everyone learns for the first
Speaker 3: time about these pictures that were produced that had showed
Speaker 3: that had showed the girls being held against their will.
Speaker 3: I don't know the full details of what's in the picture.
Speaker 3: I don't know if they've kept that from the families
Speaker 3: for their own sake or if they just don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure. But the girls were held captive. And
Speaker 3: then all these witnesses came forward and here we are today.
Speaker 3: So I mean, going into this story, none of this
Speaker 3: was anticipated, and being a part of it, watching this happen,
Speaker 3: and you know, it's been so surreal, and in a way,
Speaker 3: I feel so honored that they have let me in
Speaker 3: so greatly. Now, of course, you know, there there is
Speaker 3: an arm's length. I don't know everything, and I know
Speaker 3: for to take it in case there are things that
Speaker 3: they don't tell me. And I don't. I don't budge.
Speaker 3: I totally respect that. So it's just been really surreal.
Speaker 3: But I am so thankful. I am so thankful that
Speaker 3: this case is progressing the way it has, and I
Speaker 3: really hope it progresses, especially in the next few weeks.
Speaker 3: You know, Ronnie Busick has only a few weeks to
Speaker 3: produce the bodies of Ashley and Laura in return for
Speaker 3: a lighter sentence. He pled guilty last week, and it's
Speaker 3: just been a wild, crazy roller coaster.
Speaker 4: Well, tell us more about this incredible deal, because he
Speaker 4: gets a certain sentence if he doesn't cooperate and lead
Speaker 4: authorities to these bodies. So, but what is the okay?
Speaker 4: So tell us the entire deal, what he doesn't get,
Speaker 4: and what he does get out of this agreement, what
Speaker 4: does he have to do to fulfill it.
Speaker 3: So, so Ronnie Busick has pled guilty to accessory to murder.
Speaker 3: He is beginning to talk. I know, last week before
Speaker 3: judge he says, I haven't been completely honest. You know,
Speaker 3: this is one of them things where they kind of
Speaker 3: keep me at arm's length, and I think that you know,
Speaker 3: they of course hold back details because if there are
Speaker 3: more people they want to come forward and families and
Speaker 3: law enforcement. You believe there are more people out there
Speaker 3: with information then there's that whole back information, so they
Speaker 3: don't share everything with me. But he apparently he is
Speaker 3: beginning to talk, and the details of the agreement are
Speaker 3: if he does produce the bodies, he will serve five
Speaker 3: years plus probation. If he does not, then he will
Speaker 3: serve fifteen years. And if you've ever seen Ronnie Musick,
Speaker 3: you know he's not in the best health. You know,
Speaker 3: fifteen years is probably a life sentence for him. I
Speaker 3: know a lot of people are angry about this. A
Speaker 3: lot of people are very only five years, only fifteen years,
Speaker 3: what's wrong with you? But you have to kind of
Speaker 3: imagine and what the families are going through when their
Speaker 3: number one priority is to find the girls and this
Speaker 3: might be their only hope. So it's kind of you know,
Speaker 3: it wasn't an easy thing, and like you said, it
Speaker 3: wasn't something that happened overnight. You know, I think they
Speaker 3: prayed real hard. I think they thought real hard, and
Speaker 3: they discussed it for a long time, and this was
Speaker 3: what they believed was best for them.
Speaker 4: You talk about people being outraged, and I understand that,
Speaker 4: but then I understand, you know, the legal procedures that
Speaker 4: that he had some leverage over these investigators, and that's
Speaker 4: why they couldn't. They have to drop certain charges, and
Speaker 4: that's why it's a plea agreement. They have to offer something.
Speaker 4: So they didn't have sufficient evidence obviously to prosecute him
Speaker 4: charge him for murder. So this is the best compromise
Speaker 4: that these people can exert on this music. So it's
Speaker 4: the best they they can possibly do. But tell our
Speaker 4: audience what the investigators believe that Busic, along with Philip
Speaker 4: Welsh the second and David Pennington did to these young girls.
Speaker 3: So from what I understand, and and I kind of
Speaker 3: learned as I go, I learned to detail. And I'm
Speaker 3: only saying this because Loreen and Dwayne mentioned it on
Speaker 3: an interview yesterday, and this was new to me that
Speaker 3: they went there, they killed the family, the girls had escaped,
Speaker 3: and the girls ran out the back door, and this
Speaker 3: was new to me. And when I heard it on
Speaker 3: the interview, I started crying just hearing it. I was
Speaker 3: like I had to hide from Loraene and just get
Speaker 3: missed the eye that they went in the back they
Speaker 3: were in the pasture, they poked their heads up and
Speaker 3: one of them saw them. And had they not tried escaping,
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know, or had they not pulled
Speaker 3: up their head, they might have made it. But that
Speaker 3: was a new detail. From there, it's believed that they
Speaker 3: took the girls back to Phil Welch's trailer and picture,
Speaker 3: which was then still deteriorating. Now it's a ghost TOWND,
Speaker 3: but I don't think it was quite a ghost town yet, right, Queen.
Speaker 3: You know from witnesses, and what was said in the
Speaker 3: Affidavid was that, you know, everyone, they they drugged the girls,
Speaker 3: They raped the girls, they sodomized the girl, They you know,
Speaker 3: tortured them for one to two weeks. There have been
Speaker 3: ample rumors about a party. There was a revolving door,
Speaker 3: and you have to understand, in this mess world, it wasn't.
Speaker 3: I don't believe it was just those three men. I
Speaker 3: do not believe that. That's why I believe, you know,
Speaker 3: that there's more people out there, and I hope that
Speaker 3: that book reaches those people. But as far as the deaths,
Speaker 3: it's alleged, based on what witnesses have said in the Affidavid,
Speaker 3: that Phil Welsh strangled the girls and then proceeded to
Speaker 3: dispose of their bodies in one of the many minds
Speaker 3: of the Picture. I know, for a long time, everyone's
Speaker 3: focuses have been on Picture, you know, which is a
Speaker 3: ghost town. It was once a thriving lead mining town,
Speaker 3: but now it's full of sinkholes and mines. And there's
Speaker 3: the scary, there is the horrifying, you know, possibility that
Speaker 3: you might never find these girls because these mines have
Speaker 3: long collapsed or they flushed. I mean when I say minds,
Speaker 3: I mean underground cities. They used to have eighteen wheeler
Speaker 3: you know, highways for eighteen wheelers, interstate highways underground. These
Speaker 3: are not little mind shifts, you see. And yeah, it
Speaker 3: was its own underground city. And if you look at
Speaker 3: pictures of Picture underground, it's like Cathedral underground, Like it's
Speaker 3: thousands of a square miles of this. I never knew
Speaker 3: such a place even existed in America, but I spare
Speaker 3: you it's there. But that's where it's largely believed that
Speaker 3: Phil Welch and possibly others disposed of the girls. I know,
Speaker 3: the most recent searchers have focused on that area. Now,
Speaker 3: of course, there's the possibility they're not there, but that
Speaker 3: is where they focus. It also bears mentioning that they
Speaker 3: believe Phil Welch was kind of the ringleader and all this,
Speaker 3: and I think Pennington and Busic were kind of the
Speaker 3: the tag alongs, if you will, and who possibly set
Speaker 3: the fire.
Speaker 4: And you talk about Ronnie Busick too. He's sixty eight
Speaker 4: years old out of this. So that's the reality of
Speaker 4: this too, that if he were to get the fifteen years,
Speaker 4: he might not outlive that. So that's very interesting.
Speaker 3: And he's a very old sixty eight. He's a very
Speaker 3: old sixty eight. He's been shot in the head, so
Speaker 3: he's not all there. And he's spent a lifetime addicted
Speaker 3: to meths so he's a very old sixty eight.
Speaker 4: And he was arrested while he was in prison, so
Speaker 4: he's this he's not. He's spent considerable time in prison
Speaker 4: already and was arrested for these for these crimes while
Speaker 4: he was.
Speaker 3: In prison too, right, right, They had arrested him on
Speaker 3: drug charges up in Kansas. But he has spent most
Speaker 3: of his life in and out of jail. I mean,
Speaker 3: he knows the system, and I think that that's why
Speaker 3: everybody hears he might be, you know, just kind of
Speaker 3: jerking the authorities around because he does know the system's
Speaker 3: he's he's a little bit clever in that in that sense.
Speaker 4: This very interesting and important date is August first, So
Speaker 4: he has a deadline. Isn't that you're going to assist
Speaker 4: us in trying to find these bodies. He has a
Speaker 4: deadline to find these bodies or they have a deadline,
Speaker 4: which is August thirty first. Very interesting right right.
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 3: Sorry? How?
Speaker 4: How? How? What's Loreene and Jay's thoughts about this development?
Speaker 4: And then you mentioned about the five years and the
Speaker 4: fifteen years. What are her thoughts about this entire development
Speaker 4: and this August thirty first event?
Speaker 3: You know, this wasn't something that was taken lightly. I
Speaker 3: know that the family is along side, like with the DA,
Speaker 3: you know, Ballard with with the attorney for with the ADA.
Speaker 3: I know everyone sat down and discussed this for a
Speaker 3: long time, for weeks, maybe even months. So this wasn't
Speaker 3: anything new. And when I've asked Loreen in the past,
Speaker 3: asks like how do you feel about this? Is this
Speaker 3: give you some semblance of closure? When I ask for
Speaker 3: things like this, her answer is always the same. Nothing
Speaker 3: is solved, nothing is finished. Until I find Laura, you know,
Speaker 3: until I find my daughter. So despite the arrest, I
Speaker 3: think she's happy to see him do some jail time,
Speaker 3: but it's very pale compared to her wishes to find Laura.
Speaker 3: That's her only prerogatives in this life.
Speaker 4: What was it like for her to finally get a
Speaker 4: contact from police and have this arrest of this suspect,
Speaker 4: And what was it like for her if she shared
Speaker 4: it with you, just her reaction to finding out the
Speaker 4: reality of what happened to her daughter, the horrible reality
Speaker 4: of what happened to her daughter and a friend.
Speaker 3: I don't think she's any stranger to this, you know,
Speaker 3: And I remember when I first met her tiptoeing around
Speaker 3: these details. But she's very forward, she's very forthcoming, and
Speaker 3: she she's no stranger to the horrors, I mean absolute
Speaker 3: horrors of this case. She really wears the pants in
Speaker 3: this investigation in a sense because she you know nothing,
Speaker 3: I mean, she she knows everything. She she really does.
Speaker 3: And she's been hearing rumors about this party since the
Speaker 3: first week or you know, maybe a little earlier, but
Speaker 3: like since since the very early days. Yeah, and you
Speaker 3: know she's heard about this party or she's heard this
Speaker 3: name or she's heard that name. I mean, she's heard
Speaker 3: horror stories that you know, you wouldn't be able to sleep.
Speaker 3: So I don't think any of them are shocking to her.
Speaker 3: And if they are, she she won't show me. She
Speaker 3: won't show anyone. But you know, I think for her,
Speaker 3: in her mind and her way of thinking, which is
Speaker 3: is quite unique, she's like, Okay, great, what's next, what's next?
Speaker 3: What's next? We got Ronnie, what's next. He's got a
Speaker 3: plea deal, What's next? And that's how her mind works.
Speaker 3: It is not how my mind works. My mind works.
Speaker 3: I you know, of course, I'm a storyteller, so I'm
Speaker 3: thinking of theories and hypothesis and I you know, my
Speaker 3: my imagination would run away with me, not her. What next?
Speaker 3: What next? What next? And that's that's how you know.
Speaker 3: I've asked her. I'm like, yeah, I've asked her family members.
Speaker 3: I'm like, has she always been like this? Or is
Speaker 3: this just because of this case? And she's like, no,
Speaker 3: she's always been like that. That's that's who she was
Speaker 3: born this way.
Speaker 4: You know, you talk about Loreene not having not really
Speaker 4: the police cooperating with her or you know, she wasn't.
Speaker 4: I guess it's satisfied with the response of the police
Speaker 4: and there in their investigation. What about this new team
Speaker 4: of investigators, was there a difference and that did that
Speaker 4: make her have more confidence that something would happen in
Speaker 4: this case?
Speaker 3: I think right off the bat, there is a skepticism,
Speaker 3: and I think that would be anyone. I think when
Speaker 3: you dealt with law enforcement, or having tale with law
Speaker 3: enforcement as much as Loreene has, of course you're skeptical like, okay,
Speaker 3: well we'll see. And I think it was very clear
Speaker 3: again Loreen kind of wears the pants here. So when
Speaker 3: this new team came forward and it's headed by DA
Speaker 3: investigator Gary Stanfill. Now Stancill had retired from Tulsa. He
Speaker 3: was a sex crimes I don't know what his actual
Speaker 3: title was, but he worked in sex crimes and he
Speaker 3: retired from there, and he took on this case almost
Speaker 3: as his own personal project. This isn't like some assignment
Speaker 3: he has. He's retired, so you know, this is like
Speaker 3: a personal thing for him. And I think he really
Speaker 3: took on the lead with this story. And even though
Speaker 3: there is that natural skepticism, you know, kind of like, well,
Speaker 3: we'll see, and a lot of it's like Loreene is like,
Speaker 3: here's the information I have, what are you going to
Speaker 3: do with it? And a lot of it's also Loreene
Speaker 3: saying I'm going here, And that's what happened with Ronnie Busick.
Speaker 3: You know, She's like, I got a tip or a
Speaker 3: few tips. You know, I'm going here. You're coming with
Speaker 3: me or you're not. And they went with her. You know,
Speaker 3: That's that's how it went. But this all said, they
Speaker 3: are very good they I know, the Bibles and Freemans
Speaker 3: on both sides are very happy with the direction Stancil
Speaker 3: and Ferrari have taken this investigation. They're making so much progress.
Speaker 3: And you know, if I've said it once, I've said
Speaker 3: it a million times. There's been more progress just in
Speaker 3: the past four years or even two years. I think
Speaker 3: you know that there has been in all those twenty years.
Speaker 3: And I know those investigators are doing a very good job.
Speaker 4: What about this book thout tomorrow? What how satisfied or
Speaker 4: do you think Loreen is about this book?
Speaker 3: She's you know, she has again she has a very
Speaker 3: unique approach. She you know, she sees this as another
Speaker 3: avenue to get the story out there. You know, this
Speaker 3: story hasn't been very national, It's been largely regional and local,
Speaker 3: and and her her her sentiment is, Okay, you know,
Speaker 3: here's just another avenue. Here's just another avenue. Here's just
Speaker 3: another avenue. So that's what I hope it does. I
Speaker 3: really hope that this is a productive avenue for her.
Speaker 3: I hope it does reach that right person. You know.
Speaker 3: I gave her a copy of the Book of the Day.
Speaker 3: I says, here, you can use it as a doorstop.
Speaker 3: I was joking, and you know, but no, I really
Speaker 3: do hope that this does help bring the publicity because
Speaker 3: I think the publicity helps. I know, I know, with
Speaker 3: you know, press stuff in the past, every time there's
Speaker 3: a boost in the publicity, the tips do come forward
Speaker 3: and people do pay attention. So I really do hope
Speaker 3: this book helps her and her you know, crusade. And again,
Speaker 3: I think there are people who are still out there
Speaker 3: who know something. I think people are afraid. I know
Speaker 3: a lot of people say they're afraid. Some will say
Speaker 3: they're afraid of cops. I've heard people say they're afraid
Speaker 3: of Phil Welch, who's been dead for years now. And
Speaker 3: then there are people who are just very wrapped up
Speaker 3: in that lifestyle and they're afraid of getting in trouble.
Speaker 3: You know, you're dealing with a lot of people addicted
Speaker 3: to methodphetamine and they're scared of getting in trouble or
Speaker 3: or you know, well, you know I've waited this long.
Speaker 3: It'll look bad if I say something now because I
Speaker 3: didn't say it twenty years ago, you know. So I
Speaker 3: really hope this book reaches that right person. I hope
Speaker 3: it reaches them on a day where it'll strike a
Speaker 3: chord and make them come forward and help.
Speaker 4: Yes, you say too. Meeting Lorraine going through this as well,
Speaker 4: you talk about the Oklahoma Away in terms of no
Speaker 4: crying and just this steely resolve. How did it help you?
Speaker 4: How did this whole thing help you?
Speaker 3: This was a very transformative thing to happen to me
Speaker 3: in many ways, and that was not something I was anticipating.
Speaker 3: I'm a New Yorker. I'm very expressive. I yell, I
Speaker 3: use my hands when I thought, I let you know
Speaker 3: how I feel. I wear my heart on my sleeve
Speaker 3: and going to Alclaholma. They are not that. And that's
Speaker 3: not all of Oklahoma. That's just largely in this region maybe,
Speaker 3: and you know, they're just very reserved, They're very still
Speaker 3: and composed. And I was so struck by that. I
Speaker 3: was so impressed by that, and I said, that's what
Speaker 3: I want to be more like now. I talked about
Speaker 3: the book about my mental health. I talked about my
Speaker 3: anxiety and my panic attacks and stuff like this and
Speaker 3: going through that, you know. I mean, I remember one
Speaker 3: time I was panicking, I had a threat and I
Speaker 3: called Lorene, just panicking and I'm like, I can't breathe,
Speaker 3: I can't breathe, I can't breathe. And she talked me down.
Speaker 3: She's like, take a deep breath. Here's what you're gonna do.
Speaker 3: You're gonna put yourself in a bedroom. You're gonna stay
Speaker 3: away from the windows. You're gonna call the sheriff, you know.
Speaker 3: And she talked me down, and I'm like, this is
Speaker 3: what I want to be. This is who I want
Speaker 3: to be, you know, instead of that reactive, you know,
Speaker 3: loud and as I'm sure you can tell, I do
Speaker 3: talk a lot. I go, yeah, yeah, pity, yeapity, yeah.
Speaker 3: But you know, I really did want to be more
Speaker 3: like that. And she taught me so much, and not
Speaker 3: just her about everyone you know here in Oklahoma has
Speaker 3: taught me so much about who I want to be
Speaker 3: as a woman and who I want to be on
Speaker 3: an emotional level, and I'm so grateful for that. You know, here,
Speaker 3: I was thinking I go into their lives, but they
Speaker 3: came into mind as much, and it's been a real,
Speaker 3: very fortunate thing.
Speaker 4: You take the reader into this investigation as well with
Speaker 4: you and Loreene, and it was not without dangers as well.
Speaker 4: You describe some of the conditions that you had to
Speaker 4: do for these interviews and some of the people you
Speaker 4: met and some of the I guess the fear that
Speaker 4: you felt.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I think. You know, it's important to preface
Speaker 3: by saying that this case was through a lens of
Speaker 3: crippling anxiety and panic. Not so much because of this case,
Speaker 3: I think kind of just rear its head during its
Speaker 3: you know, during this case. Okay, my mother, her mother,
Speaker 3: my great grandmo, they all had it. So I think
Speaker 3: there was already a bit of fear that may not
Speaker 3: have been one hundred I'm trying to think of a
Speaker 3: word with the word not appropriate, but it may not
Speaker 3: have been. Sorry, I'm having a brain fart right now.
Speaker 3: Can I start that question over our own life.
Speaker 4: I see what you mean. I do see what you mean, though, yeah,
Speaker 4: and you know.
Speaker 3: And of course they were threats and you know, and
Speaker 3: there was a lot of you know, feeling in danger.
Speaker 3: A few times I faced a loaded gun and there
Speaker 3: were people like, you know, get out of here. You know,
Speaker 3: you're you're messing with some dangerous stuff. I mean even cops,
Speaker 3: you know, they're like, I would talk to you, but
Speaker 3: but people will kill me. There is a lot of that,
Speaker 3: and I think a lot of the danger comes not
Speaker 3: necessarily from this case directly, but from people in the
Speaker 3: meth and fetamine's world. I mean, people on meth can
Speaker 3: be very unpredictable. They can be dangerous times when I
Speaker 3: would have them stalk me. There was one in particular
Speaker 3: who stalked me. He continues to stalk me. I had
Speaker 3: to go to the sheriff with that information. So it is,
Speaker 3: it is scary, but it wasn't directly the case. It
Speaker 3: was just you know, this lifestyle that you see a
Speaker 3: lot in the area, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: It wasn't directly related to Lauren Ashley, right, but it
Speaker 3: was scary, and you know, I'd be lying if I said,
Speaker 3: I'm not scared anymore. Yeah, I still have times where
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm nervous. I'm pretty nervous.
Speaker 4: Yeah, understandable. Before I let you go, tell us about
Speaker 4: the anticipation of August thirty first, And also, is there
Speaker 4: other information obviously that will be gained after that date
Speaker 4: or as a result of that court date? Will there
Speaker 4: be more answers and more information like the incredible graphic
Speaker 4: and the horrible details of the murder and the rape
Speaker 4: and the being held captive. Is there more information to
Speaker 4: come and will it come from this plea agreement or
Speaker 4: this court date on August thirty first.
Speaker 3: You know, something I've also learned from families is don't
Speaker 3: get your hopes up, you know. And I've asked Learne,
Speaker 3: like are you are you excited about this? And you know,
Speaker 3: she's like she she doesn't get on those emotional rollercoasters.
Speaker 3: And that's something I learned because early on, like when
Speaker 3: they would do search, I'm like, this is it, and
Speaker 3: like you get your hopes up and then you're devastated
Speaker 3: when things don't work out the way you want them to.
Speaker 3: So I've learned, especially because of this case, not to
Speaker 3: get my hopes up and just be still and you know,
Speaker 3: just meet, and that's what we're doing. So yes, I'm excited.
Speaker 3: It's very It would be very easy for me to
Speaker 3: be like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.
Speaker 3: But I'm trying to keep still and you know, I'm
Speaker 3: taking a page out of the Bible book, you know,
Speaker 3: and and and we'll see, we'll see where it goes.
Speaker 3: Will it produce information? I think if they do find
Speaker 3: the girls, hopefully, I don't know in what condition, you know,
Speaker 3: in what context that they would be found, if medical
Speaker 3: examiners could figure out something, I really don't know, but
Speaker 3: I do know. Loreene has largely avoided pointing to police corruption,
Speaker 3: police negligence and all the things that the Freeman's are
Speaker 3: very vocal about because she wants to focus to remain
Speaker 3: on finding the girls. And I think when the girls
Speaker 3: are found, I think she's going to have another fight.
Speaker 4: Before her Wow. Yeah, I want to thank you so
Speaker 4: much for coming on and talking about Hell and the
Speaker 4: Heartland murder Math in the case of two missing girls.
Speaker 4: It is a fascinating book and it's been a pleasure
Speaker 4: to speak to you about it today. For people that
Speaker 4: might want to, I know, a little bit more information.
Speaker 4: Is there a website, a Facebook page, tell us a
Speaker 4: little bit more how they might find out about more
Speaker 4: information or contact you.
Speaker 3: So if they want to reach out to me, I'm
Speaker 3: all over social media Instagram, Twitter, but mostly I'm on
Speaker 3: Facebook at real Jax Miller. Also, the Bible family has
Speaker 3: a page which they keep up to date very regularly,
Speaker 3: especially in light of this stuff with Ronnie Busick in jail,
Speaker 3: and that's find Laura Bible Laura spelled l A U
Speaker 3: r i A And that's a great page to follow.
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you so much, it's been fascinating. Thank you,
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Jax Miller.
Speaker 3: I appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Take care, good night,